You The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest sachoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk, we'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Hey, hey, hey. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one, issue one, Bitcoin price surges after Trump pauses higher duties on most nations. As we discuss this week right here on the World Crypto Network, the market was plummeting as Donald Trump's administration had forced tariffs on the entire world. Originally, they claimed that these tariffs were to return factories to the United States, which meant that the tariffs would have to last for at least the entire term. Why would you move a factory if they were going to change their mind on the tariff within the week? It turned out they changed their mind on the tariff within the week. Donald Trump's administration paused most tariffs, allegedly also keeping them at 10% rise. I don't know. And they say they've currently having a trade war with China. The last was, will raised on you 50, though raised at 100, will raise it 120. The price of Bitcoin was 83,729. That's up 4.92%. Just today, one dollar equals 1,194 Satoshi's very close to the 1,000 Satoshi barrier. The high was 84,140, the low 78,888. The Dow Jones industrial average started off a little shaky and had a shaky day yesterday, but ended up high at 40,212. That's up 1.56%. Not back to where it was maybe just a few weeks ago, but up out of there, we see a V-shaped recovery in the Dow Jones from when he made his decision, as it says here, the Dow on Friday. That's just today breaking. Jumps 600 points, capping one of the most volatile weeks on Wall Street ever. So we're going to you, Dan. Are you ready? Up in the air, messing with your lights. We've had everything this week. We had tariffs on. We had tariffs off. The market seems to have recovered, but obviously we have no such thing as certainty or stability. What do you think about Bitcoin this week? It has been a roller coaster. Well, it's been the last couple of months. It's been a roller coaster. I did see a funny meme today, actually, that was Trump imposed on Mr. Miyagi and it said tariff on tariff off. There's a lot of people that have been greatly impacted by this. The hopping back and forth, it seems like they said that initially it was his plan or they've come out and said it was his plan all along, but that kind of seems like they're just saying that because some of the markets pumped a bit and I don't know, there's also the inside of trading thing where everyone's kind of bought just before the Nasdaq spike just before the announcement went out, which was even an announcement to his own kind of crew, right? It went out on true social. I did read that when to suppose if you paid if you paid for truth, you got his inside message. Yeah, I mean, yeah, so it seems it seems all seems a bit dodgy and it's really not the ride everyone was hoping for when you know, when the optimists were looking for Trump to be really positive with crypto, maybe to mess around with tariffs and they knew they all knew he was going to be playing the other countries along and playing games and stuff, but crypto hasn't done so favorably. But then again, like in your previous markets, right, there's an initial pump after the after the harvining and then the early months of the year, there's a bit of a low and then everything hits a kind of all time high around obwag. So, but November, December, that sort of time. So we seem to be in that sideways territory. There's a lot of people massively panicking that this is it, you know, the panic, the pattern isn't repeating the same way as it has done before. History isn't rhyming in the same way. And, you know, this time it's different. But it seems, I don't know, I'm optimistic. I think we're still going to get another all-time high this year. I don't know about the 250Ks. That would be incredible if we reached it. Poor old Ethereum still hasn't hit an all-time high since what, 2021. So I think everyone deserves a bit of a break, but there was all that meme, you know, the meme craze last year. A lot of people getting rubbed over ridiculous coins. There's still people see people tweeting about fart coin and stuff. But that kind of exploded or imploded as it were. And a lot of people got burned. But in a way, it was kind of a good thing that that happened, because it was going too far. There were too many. The whole thing needed to collapse in order for people to actually realize that there's a lot of scams in the game again. And every now and then you need that reminder right in crypto that there's just an absolute flood of scams everywhere. And it was a niche that had a bit of a run, but unfortunately memes had gone. Maybe we're going back to actual utility for the non-bit coin stuff and actual projects that do something useful. But hopefully Bitcoin will pump back to all-time highs and beyond. It was quite a crazy week, Dan. We had so much happen. Depending on your point of view and your politics, you might think this is brilliant. Part of the deal on negotiation, which they decided afterwards. During the thing, they said that tariffs were fantastic and that you should support the nation and support the tariffs like you should the war effort. Meanwhile, a lot of people wondered why they were using this quadruple formula, why they were taxing that country that only has penguins, stuff like that. So it seems like a pretty fast 180 there. Get a whiplash. As they're saying in the chat, I agree it was the bond market. We don't know who. Some people have said Canada. The default answer is of course China, but it would be devilish and it would be against their interest as they own much of that United States debt. But somebody started selling lots of US debt on the bond market and it was up 10% of the rate. So after that, Trump caved the next day. So that's real warfare when the country starts selling each other's debt, not just messing with trade, which is a measure on top of that. Like Dan said, we've had the really obvious insider trading, the Nasdaq and other indexes spiked. They've got Marjorie Taylor Green and other Congress people selling before the tariffs, buying right before they're put on. And if you were a subscriber to the truth social Donald Trump account, I don't know how much it costs, but about three hours before he said, today is a great day to buy stocks and even said DJT, which used to be easy. You could write it off say, Hey, that's his initials. He's just signing it for no reason because he's old fashioned. But unfortunately also has a coin now that has a ticker like that that went up. I don't know 30% that that morning. So insider trading seems really obvious. If it'll be punished, seems really unlikely. As it happens, a lot of people are like, ha ha ha, this is so fun. They crash the world's markets, but it's not that funny to people that are retiring that might have sold people that freaked out. People might hurt themselves, stock market people traders, other stuff like that. It's just not funny. It's not fun. It's not funny. And now everyone's being calm and we're all being cool. The price is back up. But really what they've said is they're going to go through and remake every trade deal with every country on earth. So I don't know how long that's going to take. The views I've seen says that the market is not going to wait for that. They're not going to wait the rest of the administration to get these trade deals back on course. They want clear, they want clarity. They want to know if the market's going to go up because it's good time or the markets are going to go down because it's a bad time. And it is such a a whipsaw such a shift between last week when they're talking about the people are going to have to go through economic hardship. And it's going to be a long terrified. And we're going to rebuild manufacturers. Americans are going to be screwing iPhones together to this week where it's like we just fooled everyone on the tariffs. You're all a bunch of suckers and we fooled you. And I think that I wish that that was true, that their plan was to fool us. It does seem like as far as on the money making side, that was true. But with the rest of it, I just don't know. And again, it's not going to provide any clarity or any stability for anyone. Dan, what do you think? Did they have a plan all along? Or was this just flying by the sea of their pants? The bond market starts tinkering the markets, goes down four days in a row. Everybody's writing them letters. The countries are begging, begging to get their trade back on. A lot of this is just, it's going to be retrofitting whatever explanation afterwards that fits the bill right. And I do think it's very politicized. So if you if you're if you're anti-trump, then you're going to be saying that it's always it always wasn't part of the plan. If you what, if your pro Trump is always going to be part of the plan, right? So I think there's obviously that level of politicization. But ultimately this could lead for the rest of the world. This could lead to some better trade deals that you've already got the EU trying to renegotiate. I think with Canada, they've they've put started putting things on the table there. So you know, perhaps there will be some some good out of it that I'm ever the optimist, right? So I kind of I try and look at things neutrally. So although this is bad, maybe this will be good for, but actually the rest of the world reaching better trade deals than they're already are, which could globally bring down prices. Now whether that's part of the plan or not, that's just a side effect of of what's happening. And whether America actually loses out ultimately because you know that they've kind of cuts various ties and burnt a few bridges here and there. That's yet to be seen. But what is being what is happening in the rest of the world is we're seeing it other trade deals happening. And hopefully they're going to be bringing these rates down, which will bring down drive to you know, cost down of prices down of other goods. Well, we're as in general though, I mean, even today there was the news about Singapore MPs are trying to push their government to give a strategic have a strategic Bitcoin reserve. So there is a bit of a ripple effect happening there with these. And I think even a school in the UK is the first school, like a private school that said that they're going to accept Bitcoin for their strategic Bitcoin reserve. So there that is becoming a bit of a buzzword, right? If 2025 there's lots of companies, there's lots of institutions and organizations and potentially countries that are trying to hedge their you know, hedge their bets and have a Bitcoin reserve. So it is bad ultimately what's happened with the markets, everything's tanked. I hear what you're saying people with pensions, very uncertain futures that you know, they've had to deal with with different sell-offs people that are trying to move house things like that. The environment is very unstable at the moment. But ultimately, you know, things that when the dust settles, hopefully Bitcoin is obviously going to prevail out of all of it and the rest of the markets will recover eventually. I think you're right Dan, there's been a lot of gains by other countries, not the United States. People are talking about putting Canada in the EU. China is pretty much coming in and taking up all of the soft power, all of the places where the United States used to offer humanitarian aid. Now they're getting it from China, which means when they want to do their next trade deal, who are they going to make a deal with? The United States is a big jerk or they're pal China. So I think it's bad. It's bad. It's bad. But we're going to move on to issue two. Keep on moving. Issue two, Bitcoin to hit $250,000 a coin this year and the magnificent seven to adopt stable coins. Oh, Cardano founder predicts. $250,000 Bitcoin this year, various factors would drive this. Also, they say that the magnificent seven, that's what they're calling. They used to call it fang, stuff like that. They're calling it mega tech stocks, includes Apple and Amazon will begin using stable coins once key legislation is passed. I wonder why they would use stable coins. Let's adjust that one first. Maybe they would use stable coins to get around regulations about using US dollars. If they're using stable coins in their app, maybe it's not as tied to US. Maybe they can get around the taxes or some kind of creative accounting. So I don't know what that's going to be, but I don't know that that's going to be anything good for the consumers. I don't think they're going to use stable coins to save you money. That seems unlikely. As for this 250K prediction from the Cardano founder, we've talked for a while about how everybody's trying to get on board with a larger prediction, but nobody can get larger than mad bitcoins. Mad bitcoins predicted infinity dollars infinity dollars equals one Bitcoin that eventually the entire world be classed and priced in Bitcoin and it'll be denominated in Bitcoin and you won't want to trade dollars anymore. You'll just trade your Bitcoin for stuff. So I don't know about this 250K thing. Again, I've been foolishly or not foolishly following this tech dev guy on Twitter and he keeps saying there's another bump out there. He keeps saying that it's not the top of the great bull run from the havining and that we're still going to go up and I'm such a permable and a sucker or whatever. So I keep believing this, but I like the idea that more people are thinking it's coming true and they're writing articles and whatever Hoskins doing. They're doing God's work every time they say the price of Bitcoin's going up. That's good work. Dan, Eve, what do you think? $250,000 a coin even given the economic turmoil and the sheer madness going on outside? I would love to see that definitely. Obviously. And historically we haven't hit the all-time high until about what's 14, 12 to 14 months after or 12 to 16 months after the the halving. So it does seem we're in that sideways territory now. We have seen I think it was $100 trillion, the Twitter guy has had to readjust his charts again because I think we should have been at 250 already. And maybe if the market turmoil kind of hadn't have happened, the Trump, you know, Melania pump coins and maybe the meme super cycle that we saw last year, or maybe we're not even in the super cycle, we had a call into that, I can't remember his name now, but that guy that loves the meme super cycle. Maybe if those kind of rug pools hadn't have happened, we would see a more confident... I thought it was going to be a hyper wave and we were all going to go surfing super cycles. But I think those rug pools hadn't have happened. There would be a bit more investor confidence because even though Bitcoin is nothing to do with these meme coins, it still gets tied in ultimately and that gets a bad name. But what hasn't stopped is more companies adopting Bitcoin. I mean, MasterCards, I think in Aus yesterday, they've partnered up with Cracken and there are $500 billion company themselves. So we've obviously got the magnificent seven, but then we've got these huge payment providers that are starting to dip their toes fully into Bitcoin. And that's when we're going to... We could see a lot bigger rollout of imagine anywhere that there's MasterCard now, MasterCard then put on any new machines, you know, Bitcoin accepted here via MasterCard. So maybe they come out with some sort of funky logo with some sort of MasterCard and Bitcoin on it or something crazy like that to kind of advertise it. So we're seeing all of that pushing forward, all the infrastructure moving is as usual, even though the price is kind of kicking sideways and kicking that can down the street. I'm hopeful I reckon October, like October to December, we're going to see some crazy highs, hopefully beyond 250k. But certainly, you know, I don't think we've had all time high yet this cycle. I did see the announcement with Cracken and MasterCard, but I've just become so jaded at this point. I think every single exchange crypto.com anybody else has at one point had a big deal with MasterCard and tried to pimp it. I think a lot of the altcoins have had deals with various little parts of Visa or MasterCard and then claimed it was the big thing. So I'm pretty tired of that. They say last time that SBF killed our rally and that the collapse of FTX took the second top from us. Maybe Trump killed the rally this time. I don't think we know. I think we're still in a mid point here. People are ecstatic that the tariffs have allegedly gone away. Although it still seems like on paper, there's 10% across the board and a really hot trade war with China. Obviously, we get a lot of stuff from China as people have been talking about this trade deficits. We buy a lot of things from China. They don't buy a lot of things from us. They're really good at making cheap stuff. There's reasons for these trade imbalances. It's not just like they're ripping us off. We see all the memes of the video memes from the Chinese show in Americans in factories, like doing sewing and stuff like that. The meme will be strong. They're so mean. All the Americans are 300 pounds and wagging them. Sure, it's in stuff. It's so disheartening because it's partially true. We have a lot of obesity. We have very bad food in this country. We have very low workout rates and so forth. It's fun for the Chinese. They're poking the American. But at the same time, you're making your own people work in those factories for real. The whole thing with the screwing in stuff and the boring and the horrible music and everything, that's happening to your people right now. I'm sure they have to do it to globalize to get a level up, to build up and all that. You have to break eggs to make an omelet and all that. But yeah, it has been funny with China doing that. Let's move on to the exit question. They say 250k. How much do you say, will the price of Bitcoin be higher this next week? This time next week, predicting against the Bitcoin ball? Obviously, I'm a terrible predictor. I wish that I would publish myself so that you guys could do the opposite. They have one of those bots. It's like doing the opposite of what Tom thinks all the time. You would make a fortune. You would do really well. But the inverse Kramer. Exactly. Every single time Anna and not meaningful, I'm always like, I'm freaked at the wrong time. I'm excited at the wrong time for this market. Even these days, I don't know what we're doing. But I say higher. Dan, what do you say? Higher or lower? I'm going higher. I think I think, I think, yeah, we've got this 98 pause. Hopefully unless there's any no more bombshells, we're going to see a bit more of a confidence in the markets. De-coupling from the markets, right? Because that's what we're all after. We're fed up of coupling with every other market. Bitcoin needs to be excelling on its own now. I don't think we're going to be decoupling anytime soon. We have all their money in us. Like we said before, if we take all their money, we're going to link with them. But that's more of the next issue. Let's see, will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It is certain. It is certain. All has spoken. Yes. There you go. Higher next week. Set your things. Hey, check out worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got new shorts from last week with Wasime and Victoria and Josh more than just my face and Gideon and Ben. Finally, more than just my face at worldcryptonetwork.com. Check out the shorts. Moving on to issue three, Dave Portnoy, the pizza guy says, what many are thinking? If Bitcoin is supposed to be independent of the dollar, why does the trade just like the stock market? Meanwhile, gold and Bitcoin have decoupled. We used to be tight. Now we're not. Gold price kept going up throughout the downturn of tariffs, as people saw it as a way out of the market. Bitcoin, however, is still seen as a risk on asset. Answer the pizza man's question. If Bitcoin is so different, why does it trade just like the stock market? Well, I think it's just because that when investors are scared, they become scared for everything. And you've got the hardcore Bitcoiners that will actually put their money and they keep their Bitcoin, they'll never sell it. They'll stack sats and never sell. But when retail and when other fund managers come in, especially when they come in new, they're not really kind of clued up on why Bitcoin is better money. They're just buying it as an asset because of speculation funnily enough. They're the speculators rather than actually knowing why Bitcoin isn't more sound money. They get freaked out just like normal people in the stock market. So I think until that education process happens and until everyone, it's ingrained in everyone's mind why Bitcoin is better than Fiat money, why it's better than stocks. Then we are going to see that capital flight as soon as the markets are spooked. But I think also on the I think back at the divergence from gold at the end of the day, gold is still the gold that we do used to have the gold standard. So there's still going to be a bit more of a coupling between gold than there should be than the stock market because gold is more of a safe haven asset rather than stocks. So that's why we have that coupling there. How long it's going to take for that to happen? We're going to need more countries and bigger countries than having proper strategic reserves than just speculation or countries announcing they're going to do it. I think before we see a property coupling, there's going to need to be big nation states involved in Bitcoin stacking it and trading with it as well. I think part of the news of the recent trade wars and the tariff wars was that I read that China and didn't China and Russia start to trade, settle in Bitcoin for certain assets. I think it was oil or something like that. So until we see more of that happening, not China and Russia, but just in general, assets being settled in gold than Bitcoin, the decapling is still going to take time. I think what Portquan is after there's what you're talking about, Dan, he wants Bitcoin to be like gold. He wants Bitcoin to be a safe haven where you can say, okay, I can put my money there, it's going to go up or down and you'll be fine. And I had the same feeling too. I was like, Trump's coming in, he's going to wreck everything, but not Bitcoin because that's my special little thing and maybe not Ethereum because they're buying a ton of it and boy am I wrong on both counts, right? They wrecked Bitcoin, they wrecked Ethereum, they wrecked the stock market where all their friends invest, but they gave them some little tricks and we'll see if that's a problem in the future. So on and so forth. But the thing about Bitcoin and every time that I freak out in panic cell, I always have the first, I'm like, this is worth a million dollars of coin. This is the future money of the world. They're going to be cutting up little pieces of substatoshies for a hundred years and I'm selling it now for nothing. But the problem is the belief, the belief that I have and maybe you have is not widespread yet. Not everyone understands Bitcoin, how it works, so on and so forth. There's people still out there, I guess we didn't grab the issue today, but there are people saying that it doesn't need to be a currency and a guy wrote a big article in the new coin desk pay for play magazine where you have three articles left. It's as bad as the New York Times, which pretty much turned me off discussing his article. But what he was saying is he was trying to fight back against Jack Dorsey's wise words saying that Bitcoin needs to be a currency. That currency is a part of this. It's not just it's a digital gold that you can put into your safe deposit box or you can put into your ETF and you can just store in a box and evolve forever and never move around. It's digital gold with a payments network, with a network, a way to send it around the internet. And this is an incredible valuable thing that we should not give up on. We should not just cut it off like a vestigial tail and say, oh yeah, Bitcoin people used to send that around, they used to spend it and they just forgot. And they like they said they liked holding it as gold forever and ever and doing nothing instead. And that's not what this is built for. That's not how networks and the internet work. There is a need for people to get money that's not government and send it across the internet for low cost with no third party. And sure that doesn't match the bank's need. They don't have a need for, you know, under the table transactions or the ability to send money to causes that might not be popular so on and so forth. But clearly people using money have that need and they're going to keep looking for a better money and eventually they're going to find Bitcoin. So I think the future is here. It's just not evenly distributed yet. As William Gibson said, Dan, what do you think for an exit question? Bitcoin and gold? What would you rather have going forward? Bitcoin or gold? Gold has been safe. Bitcoin is up and down. Which win would you go? I'm obviously Bitcoin. Now I'm still really waiting for the news where we start mining for gold in moon rocks or not moon rocks necessarily, but on asteroids. And suddenly the supply of gold just gets completely blown out of the water. I think that's coming in the next, gotta be in the next 10 to 20 years. The way the space flight is accelerating the technology there. But one thing that is happening is that we do seem to be still trailing the M2 global money supply. And if that is, it does seem to be a pattern that's emerging. And if that is true, then we should be hitting like, I don't know, a hundred looking at I think it's a hundred and 130 K plus like based on on the current values now, based on historic values. So pretty soon. So I think that if we are can still trailing and one thing that you know, we're talking about coupling, if we're still coupling in a trailing couple of the M2 money supply, then we're expecting a pump pretty soon. Hopefully for hopefully for summer. I would say blind means. It's hot enough here, Dan. It's hot enough here. No, he feels like summer, man. It's been like, it's been 20 degrees up in England. That's right. I would want the Bitcoin to for much of what I said in the last answer. If you think about the gold, it's there, it's in your vault, it can't be moved around. If you think about the Bitcoin, you could go access it in your vault. You could send it all the way across the world. You could split it up into five parts. You could send it to five different people. There's this network that allows you to send it that makes it an internet thing, all the internet things that I've been into into the past from MP3's, MP4's, compressing video, compressing audio, all these things. They go viral like crazy because they're internet things because you can replicate them. There's nothing viral about gold. There's nothing viral about the way it moves around so slowly and it's so heavy. If you ever have to deal with a legacy banking system again, they're like, oh, we'll send some money, but it's going to take three or four days. We got limits. You can only send a couple grand. Everything is very controlled and that's the gold system times a thousand because of the weight of actually carrying around the bars and the senselessness. I remember I bought some silver at like pork fest a million years ago at the Libertarian Convention and I have no idea where that silver is. It's in a box somewhere. I don't know. Whereas real money, stocks and Bitcoin and stuff like that, you keep better track of it. It goes up in value. Gold and silver seems like these collectibles. You have to hold for a hundred years for them to be valuable. The other thing is on technology, not just mining it in space, but I really think that technology is going to improve so much in detecting gold on Earth. Like reserves that we never thought we'd actually have that the supply is probably way bigger than they think now. Just when I was growing up in the 80s, you'd hear that the oil would run out by the year 2020. The year 2000 and then they were like the year 2020 and they're like, they keep on extending it slightly because they've got different ways of extracting oil and finding oil and stuff like that. I think we're going to see the same with gold. There's going to be technology that can find it in different places, extract it in different places. Obviously not alchemy, but just actual ways of retrieving gold and realizing actually that there's probably a lot more gold on Earth that we have. Let alone what's out there in the solar system. Well, and to an Echo Starship Schrodinger in the chat, it's not just gold buried underground. It's gold buried in sunken ships, which are more submarines, more and more drones, and we will be able to find that. So that's going to be fascinating stuff. Now let's keep moving on to issue four. Micro strategy could be forced to dump Bitcoin under these circumstances. Michael's sailor responds. Well, I don't think there's that much to this. I'll take it first and we've always been making fun of Micro strategy because he says, oh, I'm going to huddle forever and oh, I'm invincible and I'm the strongest hudler. And in many ways, that's true. He's a millionaire. He has tons of money, as houses and whatever. He's not like you or me where you have to pay rent and then you have to sell, right? He's micro strategy. He's the big internet guy from the 90s. But on the other hand, and this is what this article says and the discussion this week has led to, he has a board of directors. They bought Bitcoin at a certain price. If the price of Bitcoin goes down below a certain price, his board of directors is going to make them sell. No big deal. Like we're not saying it's big deal, but the problem is it's this deception. It's this whole like, I am the greatest hudler in the land. When you're just as big a hudler as your board of directors will let you be. Hey, it's a small difference. Dan, what do you think? Micro strategy, strategy, not so big anymore. If the price goes down, he sells the same way that even Elon Musk could get called out of Tesla or one of his other systems if it goes down enough, which is not happening now that things seem to have turned. But yes, what do you think? But I think ultimately he's done a lot of good for Bitcoin in terms of promoting it. But there is a bit of a bottle neck, but it's too many eggs in one basket, right? With Micro strategy, one company that's holding a lot of Bitcoin and the risk there is quite big. And then there's the additional risk that most of that, isn't it being held by Coinbase, who are custodians for a bunch of other as well? So there's definitely a lot of risk with one custodian and one company holding so much Bitcoin. If they get margin-cooled, then I think there's going to be some huge sell-off and you make a really good point that it's not going to be his decision. It's going to be ultimately out of his hands. There's shareholders and the board that really swing things. And that's going to be quite a big problem if Bitcoin does dump a lot more. But maybe I think that we can't, once we hit 100K again and we float above it a little, we're not going to go, we're not going to go lower. I can't see us dipping to even down to anything below 60 anymore. I think that's just a thing of the past, right? There would have to be a huge, a huge issue that I've come out of left field that makes it drop. And isn't it usually about for a maximum of 30 to 40% in previous halvings between the all-time high after the halving and then the final all-time high before the next halving. And we've already done that by going from like one one away, whatever it was, down to 70 something. So that's a huge, quite a huge drop. Seeing 60 and below is I think that God are those days now, fingers crossed. But yeah, there is a lot of risk by having one company holding so much Bitcoin. The day counters have definitely said that our rally is not long enough. They've done comparisons with previous rallies and they say this one was 180 days, 200, 220, and we're not there yet. So day-wise that might work, as for the rest of it with a micro strategy and price going up and so forth, if it could go down. I think we've seen this week anything can happen. Obviously, in a normal environment, I agree with Dan. I don't think the price of Bitcoin goes down. Normally, I don't think it ever should go down. But we don't live in a normal environment. We have whether you like him or not, a very radical gentleman who makes decisions very quickly as president. There are rumors saying that they decided on the terrorist thing at one o'clock and they launched it at four o'clock. And that rocked the entire global economy. So while I do, normally I look for things like if Bitcoin was technically broken, which I don't think is really possible. But I do think of it. I think, well, if it was broken, it would go to zero. Grow to me buying it. Me and Andreas would buy the last day. This is Andreas, we'll sweep it in half. Right? Now, we're all sweeping it at a penny a piece and a half or whatever. But if it's broken, it's broken. If it's going to get hacked out of our accounts the next day, what good is it to buy it at a penny, if it's cosmically or quantumly broken or any of those things? But it's not broken. It's the world that's broken. So, yes, even just go back to Lord of the Rings. The most important lesson of the books that they left out of the movies is that you can't just stay at home. You can't just stay in the shire because even the shire evil came there, right? Evil conquered the home. So the lesson is you have to go out into the world and fight evil. You can't just stay at home. But we're running out of time on this issue. Let's go to bonus issues. Ross Ulbrek to speak at the world's largest Bitcoin conference in Las Vegas. Let's go to Dan E. First. I know what I'm going to say on this. Dan, what do you think? Ross Ulbrek to allegedly the dread pirate Roberts from the Silk Road freed by Trump's pardon and the Bitcoiners and libertarians who helped get it now speaking at the conference. What do you think? Well, he's such a kind of main character in the Bitcoin early days, you know, with Silk Road and the bust happening. That kind of made worldwide new. It was pretty much around that time of thing that was just before then I learned about Bitcoin. It was such a big thing right then. So a lot of people probably first heard of Bitcoin via the Silk Road bust and Ross Ulbrek. Ulbrek. I think it's quite cool. I believe he should have been released because of what Silk Road did sell. I think it's a cool story to tell. I follow him on Twitter. He's just such a kind of nice happy chap. He's not sour and bitter about the whole issue of being jailed. He's so thankful to be out and he post about his first sunset and things like that. It's just really nice content that you post. I'd be really interested to watch him if I was to go there. Well, Dan, turn me around a little bit. I was going to rag him a little. But I'll root for him instead. I'll say maybe he comes to this speech like Dan saying a changed man and he makes the speech about prisoners rights and how crappy it is in jail and he becomes an advocate for that. I take all this criticism off the board. But meanwhile, back here in reality, I'm still waiting for the dollar Ross Altcoin or the dollar Ross shitcoin company. I think there's going to be an announcement in some way eventually where he's going to try to monetize this and turn it on. To some degree, I support that. I think he got donations. I think that was a good way. But at another point, it ends like enough donations enough like benefit of the doubt. I know they gave Charlie Shramb a bunch of fancy jobs back. I'm not sure how well it turned out. They gave Carpella so fancy job back after he got out for the Mount Cox thing. I'm not sure that one. And again, the main thing here is that while many of us as Bitcoiners or libertarians see Ross as a hero, he was not released because he's a hero. The drug war is not over. They don't see Ross as this principled person standing up for the right of people to do whatever they want with their bodies. Like we see that, right? Other people don't see that. So in that way, I kind of wish that he'd stayed at home and retired and doesn't I don't think that he should have to worry about this kind of thing. But then I guess there's money to be made and so far and the one that I really want to speak and I don't know if he speaks anymore, if he's even there anymore is the dread pirate Roberts. I always liked it when he spoke. I remember he did an interview on Christmas once and I was like, man, that is balls. There's a guy with a big balls. Just put them out there. And I don't think this speech is going to be that. I don't think he's going to launch Silk Road 2 with just you know, unpassurized milk or something. I don't think I highly seriously hope you just, you know, attack the government again and so forth. You got lucky once there, buddy. But Dan, what do you think it's going to be a big conference in Vegas. I also have thoughts on that. I think it's gone a little overboard. It's a little sell out. The tickets are 500 bucks and they're raising the price on you. If you didn't buy them already. And for 500 bucks, you really got to be there on a corporate account. You got to be there trying to generate some leads, trying to do some business. It's not really like a novelty convention where we go and have fun. And that's to say nothing about the $10,000 whale passes, which is kind of offensive. And they've done it brilliantly though. The whale passes allow you to the backstage and they put the speakers in with the whales. So kudos to you. Hats off. Fantastic convention organization. But it does seem very stratified, very stratified, very class oriented, very not early Bitcoin or I don't know who you would meet there after they paid $500. Dan, what do you think are you as cynical as I am about these large conventions? Or is this just a sign of Bitcoin success? Actually, I thought you were going to say it would be much higher than I think $500 to be fair and as a Vegas conference is actually quite cheap. I've played, I've paid way more than that for for ones in Europe before, but they're obviously not Bitcoin ones, but crypto ones, but they were very kind of, what's the word, over commercialised, right? Just overboard, right? Unfortunately, there were many of the 2017, 18, 19, there were the kind of blockchain conferences and they were very quite pricey. I think $500 isn't too bad on the grand scheme of things, but $10,000 is crazy. And even now that's still like 0.9, 0.8 Bitcoin. Now that's a lot of money. That's a lot of Bitcoin if you're going to be paying that. So I can understand that only kind of huge businesses that want to rub shoulders will be paying that those sums and they've got cash to burn. It will probably end up finding a load of ICOs that have or token companies that have raised money that will just be burning that on going there and trying to convince Bitcoin is to buy that shit going. And finally, we've got one more really short story because we keep a track of these issues. Sam Bankman Fried has been moved to one of California's most dangerous prisons. Sam Bankman Fried previously was in New York where on his cell block included puff daddy, Sean P. Diddy Combs. And it seemed basically relatively safe. He gave an interview with Tucker Carlson that was against the rules. And now he's been moved to Victorville down by Los Angeles, which is a nicknamed victimville and does not sound like a very safe prison. It says you have to be in a car or a group of other gang members assorted by race. So it sounds very bad for Sam Bankman Fried. I don't know that it was a good idea to do that interview. I guess I'll respond first. Oh, again, Sam took these people's lives. He took their pensions. He took the money from one account and he used it to pay Tom Brady for advertising. They were all on smart drugs. They were all having a threesome or a coupling or whatever it were calling. I forgot a minasha. Holy something. Holy something. They're polycouled. They're polycouled up and they're polyamorous. And we haven't even gotten the tell all book on that yet. But we're going to hear that soon enough. I'm sure. So I don't I don't really root for the guy, but that said, it sounds awful. Of course, Sultanates and said you can tell a lot about a society about how they treat their prisoners. And here in the United States, we seem to treat our prisoners pretty terribly. While certainly, these people have broken the law, the rules of society. And that's a complex issue. If you punish them and so forth, but it seems like we punish them a little more than we say we're going to when you go to a place like this that's so unsafe. So Sam is a human being and I feel bad for him, even though he wrecked all these people's lives. Dan, what do you think? He's in victimville. Doesn't sound good. But it's definitely a step down from hanging out with with P Diddy, right? Or not obviously because obviously P Diddy's charges are pretty hardcore. Although even he seems like he's going to kind of he's got a lot of loopholes around how they gathered evidence that that may get him out of the mess he's in. I said the mess as in the consequences of what he may have done, not done allegedly. However, you turn that legally. But it does seem like he's like he's going into into the deep, the frying pan of the fire right now that you would have thought that that they would be more a bit more lenient on him. It seems like he's kind of at a cushty really. So to be going to to Victor, Victorville is going to be it's going to be quite a step down for him. I didn't see the Tucker Carlson interview, but judging by his previous ones before he was even arrested, it was it sounds like it could have been a bit of a slight car crash material. Didn't really do him any any any good. The fact is that he destroyed a lot of lives. He've come in gold with funds. He was quite open with that. But at the same time, you know, there's a lot of scammers out there and and it is kind of unfair to pick on some that you know, and give them crazy sentences and not go after the rest of them. There was so many ICO scams, you know, not just in in 2023, 22 when FTX was kind of made it big, but boy, before that. And they got away with absolute murder raising funds, money laundering and all sorts and none of them are in jail. And maybe they should be maybe they're going to do a sweep afterwards and and go through it or maybe there's going to be some new SSEC directive, which is to go after the actual proper scammers like, you know, fortunately like Sam Bankman and freed and get more people in jail. But it doesn't sound very good for him at the moment. Obviously, the jail doesn't sound very good, but he did affect a lot of people's lives. Although they did didn't they get a payout? And was that payout quite good? Because obviously Bitcoin kind of pumped. So they they they did quite well. And Bitfinex. So Bitfinex didn't Bitfinex aren't going to be getting the funds, are they? That's going to be going straight to the customers. So hopefully the customers of FTX that when you know, went through a hell actually got something back for all their troubles. Well, that would be quite something if Bitfinex gives the funds back to the customers. I haven't heard that dance. So I thought I read that they haven't read it myself. So I haven't read it myself. So yeah, double check that out. That would be quite something you did is Bitfinex famously printed those tokens and they gave everyone a token and they said, okay, you're made whole with the token. Then the token price dropped 50% and allegedly, I think the company bought back a bunch of those debt tokens at a lower price back to SPF and what he's been doing. We did have that leaked piece of paper a couple of weeks ago where it was his plan if he got into trouble. And part of that plan was to go on Tucker and to become a conservative. And that's why he's been saying as we've been saying the whole time, but people keep ignoring. He gave to the Democrats publicly. He gave to the Republicans privately. He bribed both sides. But yes, now he seems to be trying his plan to go right. I think it's working out terrible for him. I don't think it's safe for him there in that prison, even though I don't like him. Everyone in the chat seems to kind of agree. Prisoners in America are terrible. He should beat someone up on the first day. Inspiring formula says they were smoking meth doing orgies, playing League of Legends, yet somehow convinced people to give him their resources. And it's horrible. And I don't know what to think about it. The first thing that comes to my head and it's awful is white privilege. Sam Bankman freed with his Stanford parents had all the right background and all the right history where you as a fellow Wall Street guy would say sure I'll give him 100,000 or I'll give him 10 million or whatever it is. So I think that was a big part of it as well, whether we like to admit that or not. Now let's go to the exit question. Oh, just just go clean. So I don't know if I can just I don't want to spread false information. It was Bitfinex that said they read one of the court cases that saying that the the actual the hack Bitcoin isn't going back to Bitfinex. It's going back to customers, but that was I think Tevano, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the Quokit al rap puzzle brazil Khan. That's it. but you know I still don't think they've released that movie. I think they've been successful in blocking that movie. There was a Netflix documentary that was supposed to be about them. And I guess a lot of the footage of them was from one of their friends weddings. And they have stalled the thing a successfully suing that they had a right to privacy at the wedding. We'll have to see how that turns out. I don't think they do. I think they are surprised like they they know we're surprised to be in the documentary. They went to the wedding. But let's move on to the exit question. They're already talking about it in the chat, but I think we can do it as well. Dan, do you think that SPF will get a pardon Ross Obrek got a pardon. SPF has a lot of friends. Donald Trump seems to give out pardons. If you donate a certain amount of money and votes. I'm not sure that SPF has the votes, but maybe he could get the money. Oh, sorry. What was the exit question? I was sorry. I was, I was, we'll, we'll SPF get a pardon from Trump. I, I, I, I don't think so. I think it's too, I think it's impacted too many people and, I think that and even though he apparently took dark money from, you know, we took money from both sides because visually it was a lot of mainly from a front facing perspective that he was a big Democrat Donator. I think he's probably going to be punished by by Trump for that. And the dark money is not going to take, be taken into consideration. You know, Trump will just be like he's a big Democrat supporter. He'll probably be perhaps a bit sour, maybe thinking that that those donations had had a lot to do with him losing the 2020 election. So I don't think that pardons going to happen. I think you're, I think you're right. He was one of the largest donors to the Democratic Party during the 2020 election, which is definitely something Trump could take as a grudge. Additionally, I think we've already had our one miracle crypto pardon with Ross Obrecht and kind of a secondary miracle with the tornado cash developers having their sentences lightened and on their way out. But as far as a pardon, maybe if they paid him enough, right? But even then that would be one of the normal pardons like the end of term pardons. So that would be four more years in jail for Sam, which if he's in this horrible Los Angeles victim Victorville prison, it doesn't seem like if you make four more years. And even then that's if the term ends because you pardon people at the end of your term. And if you're going to get more terms or just not going to have an election, then you know, you don't have to pardon people. You could just do it if you wanted to. And he's already kind of demonstrated that with the Ross Obrecht pardon. So we're running out of time for this show. Dan, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. I know. Well, I suppose that story, my story of the week, because I've been on for a while, would probably be that I did eventually write a new rap, which I did quite a while ago. So go on my checkout on it's not pinned, but I might pin it actually. It's only a few post down to really tweet much. But it is, it does have a bit about dosing stuff and about Trump in there. And stuff. I'm quite proud of it. It's actually to, there I say it's to PDD, like the tracking is the track is PDD's can nobody hold me down. So it's got a lot of oddball stuff in there. But yeah, check it out. That's that's pretty much my news of the week. I haven't been really working on on much stuff, moving, moving house and stuff. So things are very hectic at the moment. But yeah, check out, check out the tune. And I'm going to, it's the recording is really bad. I'm not as good as I, I'm really like, I'm really, I don't know, what's the word? I haven't, I'm or grease the engine very well. So I tried to use fruit loops and didn't really do a good, good job of it. So I'm really not good at promoting my stuff, am I? But it doesn't sound very good as in the lyrics are okay and stuff as in the recording didn't go very well. So I'm going to try and record it properly and do it again soon. But yeah, check it out. I'm, I'm pretty proud of it. It's lyrically, it's definitely my best, my best tune. So go and check it out. It's terrible. All right. Well, it sounds like Dan might have a cryptopole. A cryptopole, which is not the same as crypto raptor. So that's hard to understand. Yeah. But I want to tell me that for one ethereum like in 2017, crypts are raptor and I was like, oh, I just, I just didn't want to, you know, I just didn't want to pay someone like, I've been 2017, 2020, anything you want. And I didn't want to pay like four grand for it. And I wish I didn't now. But cryptopole, I'm still happy with because it's like monopoly with crypto. And those are people still trying by cryptopole of me actually. You try and built lots of people who constantly try and make a crypto game based on monopoly and offer to buy crypto poly off me. So who knows? One day I might trade. I might do a some sort of, you know, smart contract trade from cryptopole to crypto raptor and make things less confusing. It does sound great. If only the people who owned crypto raptor wanted to start their own monopoly game, everything would work out perfectly. I don't have that much this week like everybody else. I've been panicking and not panicking and panicking and not panicking and thinking that the world's economy is going to be crushed forever to thinking that it's going to come right back the next day. So that's not been very fun. So if you've been going through that, I've been going through that as well. Everyone's talking about Parker Posey in the new season of the white I haven't seen the white lotus. I watched the first season. I guess I'm horribly behind. But I do like Parker Posey. She was in this movie in 1995 called Party Girl. It's an independent film. It's a great film. She dances. She's so hot. She's a librarian. She learns about the dewey decimal system. I was watching part of it this morning and it is such a time capsule. In the very beginning, she's stuck in prison and they give her a rotary phone for you kids. She had to like reach out and turn the wheel to get the numbers. It wasn't push button and it was of course a real phone with a cord and everything. But to see the library with no computers anywhere, no research stations, no nothing. And to hear these librarians talk about technology and to check the books in and out and a guy's upset because the books are out of order on the shelf and she's learning the dewey decimal system which seems really valuable and part of her being responsible at the time. But she seems really ridiculous and stupid now. But that's just because only small libraries use the dewey decimal system. The college libraries have a different system. But I enjoy Party Girl. And you should check it out if you haven't seen it. It's independent. It's small. It's 1995. But if you've seen Parker Posey recently, you could go back in time and see her when she was young. And I had another thought today about the movie where I was watching it. A big part of the movie is Kamu's book, you know, Cicifis. And he had the myth of Cicifis. And he says that you must imagine Cicifis happy. And I had a kind of realization today while I was watching it. I was like, what she does in the beginning of the movie, she's kind of like Cicifis. Every night she has a party and she rolls it uphill. But eventually it becomes too late in the party fades. But then she has to do it again. She has to start another party. And that in a way, part of like just her coming to responsibility as an adult, just the normal part of that, I could also see a little Cicifis in there that she's directly learning from the book she's being exposed to in the library. And that it's existential. It's all or nothing. She's a party girl. So it's a lot deeper than you might think. So check out Party Girl 1995 with Parker Posey. Bonus, one of the supporting actors. I realized this far too late, but he was in this. He's super young. Then he's in half baked. He's one of the supporting characters. And then he's in the TV show Weeds. And he's a big time gangster. So an incredible career for that guy. I think his name's like Guillermo Diaz. And he's fantastic. He's in Party Girl as well. So I love the one thing I love about watching an old film is seeing someone that like who's who you know now like nowadays and you're like, oh my god, you know, you know, it's them in the background or something's an extra and you're like, wow, it's that dude like like the guy from in Breaking Bad, the guy in the wheelchair, right? The guy in the wheelchair is is ace Ventura's landlord. Like, you know, it's crazy. Oh, yeah, well, that guy's a big character actor. He's in a lot of different stuff. He'll see him all over. But this one, this one's so strange because I looked up the cast recently. So I'll go and bring it up here on the screen. Parker Posey obviously became famous from the film was the Indie darling. She's in dozens of films. And of course, the new white Lotus season that everyone won't stop talking about. There's also Guillermo Diaz as I talked who's in the other things. And leave Striber, who's a big actor as well. He's in a lot of great movies. And then you got this guy who's like the number two, like the lead in the film Omar Townsend never in anything ever again. Blade Mustafa and then disappeared because this is an indie indie movie. Sooting in I don't want to say New York or something. And you come on set for a couple of days, you shoot it, goes in the can and you move on with your life. So it's very interesting how this happens. Also, interesting. I saw Val Kilmer again yesterday. He was in the McGyver takeoff McGroober with Will Forte. And it was it was pretty terrible, but it was kind of neat to see Val Kilmer as a bad guy. And I saw that we talked about Val Kilmer last week. And one of the most amazing quotes I've seen in this the Val Kilmer celebration of life was his one of his friends who worked with him on tombstone. They said, you know, was he difficult on tombstone? What was it like working with Val Kilmer? And he said, well, I never met Val Kilmer while working on tombstone. I met Doc Holiday. And I thought that was just what a celebration of like his dedication to the craft. And then he also felt by bestaying in character. He'd raised the other actors and they would go up a level as well because they're thinking about their character so much. So interesting stuff. Still a great chance you guys to give us a thumbs up down below. We're going to go check the chat. See what's going to go on. They say the price is going to 600 billion. No empire records, but another 90s nostalgia. I loved empire records too. We had what's it called, Rex Manning Day, just a few days ago, April 8th. Rex Manning Day. But yeah, check out Party Girl. It's good stuff. They say Hector Salamanca is also in the TV show Oz. He's in prison with SPF now. So no, but thanks so much to everybody for joining us. Be sure to give us a thumbs up and subscribe down below. Until next week. Bye. Bye.