The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Wasim Alcindy from OX Salon. Hey everybody. Josh Jagallat from thestandard.io. Cheers, good morning. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hello, it's good evening over here for me. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one, the price. The price of Bitcoin is down to $83,000, 925. Meanwhile, the Dow Jones industrial average has collapsed to 38,314 down from a recent high of 42,000 or 44,000. If you go back a little more to 18 of February. Issue one, President Trump's mindless tariffs will cause economic havoc. But the rest of the world can limit the damage. Here we see President Trump cutting the United States out of the fabric. Other cartoons have shown him cutting off the world of the balloon and setting the America free as he raised tariffs randomly on many countries that have top level domain names. Oh, is he, what do you think of Trump's tariffs and the wreckage they're having to the economy, the stock market and especially the crypto market? Well, I mean, today the world we live in is one of like highly interconnected, interdependent supply chains of stuff that get manufactured in different places with materials from all over the place. The gets distributed over the place. And so by doing this kind of like throttling and botanicking with the blunt force instrument of tariffs is not only going to continue to cause the sort of shocks we're seeing in the markets now. But it's also going to cause all these other kinds of second order kind of knock on effects. They're a bit harder to foresee. But one of the things I thought was kind of interesting just to bring up when I'm sure everyone else has got like more informed thoughts from following the huge closer than I have. But the word tariff, let's do the, let's do a bit of etymology look at the history of the word tariff. And I've got like etymology online open in front of my computer. I'm going to read it to you. It's very short. Arithmetical table also official list or table of customs duties on goods for import or export from the Italian tariff. And then originally from the medieval Latin tariff. And then ultimately from the Arabic tariff, which comes from the verbal now, which is a verbal now from Arifah, from to be made known or taught. So the word tariff is itself imported from several different places, remanufactured and then brought into the modern English vernacular, which I think speaks to the incredible short sideness of these blunt reactions. To be made known, very interesting word. And it is surprising to find ourselves back here as a historian. Of course, I go back to about a hundred years when the United States tried the exact same thing. It was recorded forever in the movie of our childhood Ferris Bueller's day off when economist Ben Stein asked to improvise a speech for the movie, something that would be boring. That would bore the children to death says something like the smooth holly tariff act, which raised or lowered raised tariffs was supposed to shorten or lengthen it ended up lengthening the great depression. It was all right there in Ferris Bueller. We all could have known there's only one message in the film. That's it. And Josh, Gala, what do you think about the recent tariffs and protectionism for the United States economy? Well, you know, this is an old playbook of the left, actually, if you look at old videos of Nancy Pelosi or videos of even Chuck Schumer of of Bernie Bernie Sanders going on and on about tariffs. And you know, I'm not a big fan. I like zero tariffs, you know, less tax a bit on a big fan zero tariffs. But if another country, I understand it, if another country is going to tariff me, my country, then it's only fair to do the same back. And what it looks to me like they call it reciprocal, reciprocal. So it's very early here, I can't even talk properly, but but really they're not even matching the tariffs put on to the US yet. So a lot of the tariffs are like 10% flat. And then there's let's say there's a 67% tariff from China, they'll put it to like 30%. So they're not even matching yet. And it's already having an effect. I think it's I think it's a sensible move. The US is entire industrial base is gone. I don't know actually, you know, the goal is to get the industrial base back to the US, which is also a kind of it also makes sense on a on a on a security front because as soon as supply chains drop off, if you don't have the production, even the ability because everyone's forgotten how to then if there is a war, you just can't make anything, you know, and so you generally want if if you want to protect your nation, you want to have the ability to build things. And it looks like the US is sort of they don't make any ships anymore. They don't make anything anymore. A lot of it has been shipped off to the rest of the world. And you know, that's been great for the West because we've got it on all the cheap stuff. And it's in rich China. It's enriched all these countries. It's brought the middle class up a lot in these in these developing countries. And that's great too. But eventually you have to say, hey, you know, if you're going to keep targeting us, we're now suffering as a country. So we've got to we've got to match the tariffs. And then hopefully they'll drop again because generally what happens they match and then they both go, hey, why are we doing this? Let's drop it. But what I would like to see is the income tax being dropped lower over time as as tariffs take over from that. And let's see if that happens. Well, spoiler alert, the only tax cuts are going to be for billionaires. They've already launched the package into Congress. They're going to cut Medicaid and cut billionaire taxes. It's a look I'm not sure about a Josh. I don't think I think I agree with you there. We're going to raise our tariff. They're going to raise their tariff. And they're going to both look at ourselves and say, what are we doing? We are wrecking trade. We're selling less widgets. People are buying less cars. This makes no sense. It also makes no sense in today's economy when they show you that chart of where the the Airbus airplane is made or how a car gets made. And they're like, well, they get the part from here and the part from here. And even in the American supply chain, the part goes back and forth from Canada like five different times as it's connected to to the car. And it's just not. I mean, I only hope is that it's all posturing or that they cover and they say that it was all posturing. And I'm fine with either one. You guys can make a mistake and cover for it as long as they say, oh my goodness, we've killed the entire stock market. We need to change direction. A lot of like playbook is very leverage. Like they're going to go more. Yeah, I mean, if you look at his playbook, it's very leverage based. So you need to come in with a deal. You need leverage. So you need to come in with something and then take it back. Or, you know, say, hey, if we don't come to a deal, then we're going to go harder and softer. But wasn't there a tweet a while ago where when Trump wasn't president, it said, if the Dow falls by a thousand points, the president should be impeached. And like, now that's happening. But I don't see Trump calling for his own impeachment. Yeah, but the thing is if you pump, if you pump an entire stock exchange with fake money and then it drops when that fake money is revealed to be fake and a ghost, you can't keep pump, pump, pump, pump without a little bit of dump, dump, dump, like it's yin and yang. You know, life is yin yang. We can't expect forever growth. There has to be a correction. And that's just part of, you know, painful. Part of healing is having some pain when you broken your leg, you need to heal. And when you step on it, it hurts. But the pain is the weakness leaving you. And that is, that's, that's just a matter of life. I'm not sure to drop because of fake money. It seems more like it dropped because they're going to put taxes on goods going to high because of fake money. It was high because of that. But it was also high because people thought they were going to sell a lot of goods. They thought this was going to be a booming economy and that everyone was on the same page, right. But now if we're going to raise all these taxes between company countries and make it harder to trade, we're going to sell less widgets China is going to sell less widgets. People are going to have less stuff. It's going to be less good. I'm not talking the last month. I'm talking the last 20 years of American culture has been removed the industrial base overseas and take it over with debt instead. So use debt instead cheap credit, cheap money and and farm all of the industrial base overseas. And the problem is when you invent matches, you forget how to make fire. When you, when you have the ability to send all your industrial base overseas, you forget how to make the things. I'm sure 99% of Americans wouldn't know how to, I don't know, build certain things anymore. So there's a whole educational steep learning curve as well to this whole thing to bring industrial base back. It's cool to, I mean, already 288% of Americans wouldn't know how to, I don't know, build certain things anymore. So there's a whole educational steep learning curve as well to this whole thing to bring industrial base back. It's cool to, I mean, already 280,000 new jobs have been opened up in factories, but who's going to fill them if they know how to, you know, they need to be educated. Yeah, I'm not sure that this is forward progress, Josh. I think we might be going back to sticks and stoves and caveman days here. I heard a great example this morning where the guy says, OK, I'm a financial advisor. I make $10,000 an hour giving financial advice. I have a lady press my suit for $100. Should I start learning how to press my suit now? But it makes way more sense for him to give the financial advice to make the $10,000. Like we're not going to become an industrial commentary overnight. And if we did what kind of jobs would they be who wants them? We can't even get the Americans to work in the field jobs, let alone the factory jobs given the cost no matter what the cost of Victoria Jones. What do you think about the tariffs and the protectionism of the US economy? It's 100 years ago, America first. Yeah. Yeah, there were lots of things, I think, actually. I mean, I was going to start recycling through my old newsletters to my email list, but I've actually decided to publish one on Bitcoin and free trade because it's actually a really interesting topic. And in order to do research for this article, I've started going over Adam Smith's book, Wealth of Nations. And obviously, I mean, that was written in 1700s. And so he talks about tariffs back in 1700s. And he does point out that if all of your competitors have put tariffs on your goods, then actually placing tariffs is a reasonable thing to do because you want to get to a situation where you've got free trade. Because in a situation of free trade, things will move naturally, you know, benefits and economy that's producing an excess of stuff to sell it to somebody else. And obviously, once you put it in tariffs, you're going to create extra friction. So the ideal is free trade if you want to smooth economy. But of course, one of the reasons why we've got tariffs anyway is because we've got load of distortions in currencies. So, you know, you start you start off with currency wars, which then lead to trade wars, which often then lead to kinetic wars. That's how it's happened in history. And so, you know, it's unfortunate really because if he's raising tariffs to kind of match some of his competitors, maybe that's an appropriate thing to do. But it is kind of raising the conflict. And I think I suspect from what I've seen part of his strategy is to try and get the other people to back down to the year back to free trade. But of course, the first thing China's done is up the game and put tariffs up in response. And it's just like, yeah, we were looking for a de-escalation, not a re-escalation. And so the problem is you're in a situation where things are very volatile and very unpredictable. I mean, the finances of the world economy have been messed up for a long time. It's the finance, the monetary system's been overinflated. And so many respects you need a sense of deflation in order to try and bring things back under control. But the trouble is it's so inflated, the moment you try and do that, all hell breaks loose. That's what happened in 1929. So, you know, he's playing a dangerous game. And the problem is, is if all of his trading partners rather than de-escalating decide to re-escalate, it could be devastating on the stock market because, you know, you've got all of these countries raising the taxes on their goods, which essentially is very deflationary. And I know that the federal reserve is trying to, you know, keep a lid on inflation, but this may well be an overcorrection that they're not able to respond to in time in order to get control of it. And so, you know, I think anything could happen. It could all be resolved next week and we're back off to the races or the whole thing could, this could be the moment that we've all been waiting for, wherever it think falls apart. So, I don't know, I'm on the edge of my seat watching it, watching it by the minute. What's it going to do now? Yeah, so really interesting. There's interesting bullfeces published, I think yesterday by Arthur Hayes, formerly of BitMex, about how one of the, well, he foresaw a positive feedback here, which would kick in global liquidity once again. And that's one of the drivers of Bitcoin price as it seems. So that's a bull thesis. There's plenty of bad thesis as well. I just thought of one on the other side for balance. Yeah. It's also worth noting to note with the school yard nature of tariffs just because you once you raise a tariff, like you said, Victoria, China raised there's 37% in response to our tariff. Even if we say, okay, we'll drop it to 17. There's nothing to say that they'll immediately play along. They could play a much harder game. They could go years and years. They could drop it to five. They could keep it at 10. Getting back to zero or back to where we started from is not just a, you know, turn the light switch back off type situation. Yeah. And of course China historically has been really against foreign trade anyway. So getting them to trade at all has been quite a battle, which is probably one of the reasons why they've got such high tariff. They've got such high tariffs in the first place. So yeah. And without understanding the culture, it's really difficult to organize that kind of negotiation because the cultural difference does make a difference as well. We certainly didn't try to send any cultures with the entire list of countries, including the place where the penguin live and so forth. Go ahead, Josh. I mean, being, you know, China being pretty much net export, most a lot, a lot of export. Like it's primarily export tariffs. If they put up tariffs, it's not as bad as if America does because they're a massive consumer. All they do is consume compared to make. So this balance is also why tariffs work, but more in favor for them. I don't, I don't think this is a long term thing. It's like, I mean, I would rather have tariffs and zero income tax because I think income taxes is pretty, pretty shit way to raise money for the state when a tariff is good because it depends on people consuming stuff. And if you consume stuff, it means you have money to consume stuff. So it's a much better way and more efficient way of collecting taxes than it is with the craziness of determining someone's income and people hiding income and this and that and the other thing. So it's, yeah, I mean, let's see, interesting. It's interesting times. We live, may you live in interesting times. We didn't want them to be this interesting. Let's move on to the exit question. Will this be a long term tariff situation? Will Trump drop the tariffs in a week in a month in three months or never? What do you say? I think it's going to be a fairly short term thing that we've ratcheted up the escalation. I expect there's going to be some walking back. Josh, a short term long term. I think it's long term depending on the countries and it's negotiations. It's all a massive negotiation tool and it's going to be constantly deal making. Victoria Jones short term long term. Well, the phrase that springs to mind is flatten the curve and we all know how that panned out. So yeah, I don't think it's going to be ever quickly. I think it's going to be short term. I think that like Josh says they see this as negotiating tactic as a first offer and that they're going to take any concession that anyone give him. You'll give him some lawn chairs. You'll give him some, you know, sod. They found next door. Whatever it is, they'll give you something you settle the deal. We get this back on the track. And one of the interesting things I think here if we go back in history and we say, oh, you know, they're the N word party and they're going to take over and all of that. We have a very different media now, maybe not a better media worst meter, but we have so much more media that when you crash the stock market two days in a row, it's not that you're just crashing it in the newspaper in the morning. You're crashing it all day on the 24 hour news networks Fox news took down their Dow Jones ticker during the president speech when the crash started. And in the old days, I think that you could cover up that kind of information, but now I think people know I think that it's spreading I think that it's a big problem. And it's like it's like a system. It's on fire. Even today while he's golfing and enjoying himself. He's sending out angry tweets to the chairman of the Federal Reserve asking him to suddenly cut rates and print money to save this economic situation. That's, you know, very desperate. So we'll see if he can last. But we'll be back here again next week to let you guys know if we still have these tears. And to issue to Trump's crypto conflicts dominate stable coin legislation debate Democrats and Republicans were on the same page. They said, Hey, we like stable coins. But then president Trump launched his own stable coin with world liberty financial where all of the fees go to him. So if you didn't want to contribute illegally to president Trump through Trump coin, you could contribute by buying a stable coin at world liberty financial. This is obviously upset the negotiations in Congress where they tried to bar the president and Elon Musk and others from creating stable coin businesses that would benefit from said legislation and the Republicans voted down every single one of those amendments. Josh, you got all the way to think about the stable coin legislation. Obviously everything that Bitcoin magazine and so forth wanted and the problem now with people being involved in their business. Yeah, I think as many different stable coins as possible, the thing is that you really do want in terms of centralized stable coins. So the thing is that the thing is we've got a full circle with invented Bitcoin decentralized. Then we've used the technology to say, Hey, we have some money in the bank just like the receipts at the at the Rothschilds banking vault where you put your silver and then you get some nice receipts. And then they go and say, Oh, let's just start to print receipts, you know, you don't know it. So then we go back to old school auditing and the banks that hold the value, which is, which is is that real value, it's fiat. It is unauditable because they're legally allowed to be infractional reserve. So then the thing that's backing it. The thing that's backing the thing that your stable token, it's all rubbish. So I, that's why I'm working on the standard. This is why I think asset backed like backing stable coins with real value like random was like Bitcoin and a, you know, arguably a theorem. It allows people to actually back their stable coin with something that's that's on chain without giving up their private keys and stuff. These are the technology we should be heading towards not this nonsense of, oh, well, I've got a bank account and I'm issued for every dollar in the bank. I'm issuing one crypto currency. It's just, it's just full circle nonsense and we should be very, very wary of it. This is a very exciting chance to be the first stable coin to go completely belly up whether from incompetence or human error. And it's from the makers of Trump University, Trump stakes, Trump Taj Mahal, a fantastic lineage of Victoria Jones. What do you think about the stable coin debate and the president's interest? Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea for any one form of money to be under, you know, the umbrella of any particular family regardless of, you know, how hero worship they are or not. You know, I think it's just just a recipe for corruption. And, you know, it hasn't been individual, but it has been governments up until now. And of course, we want Bitcoin in order to disrupt that. And so it feels like a backward step. I'm glad that people in Congress are challenging it. It may well be driven more by the politics of envy than the politics of equity. But either way, throwing a spanner in the works is probably a very good thing. And it would have been very easy for the Republicans just to agree and say, hey, maybe we shouldn't have a Trump business here or an Elon Musk business here, especially given their closeness to the legislation. Oh, I see him. What do you think about Trump and stable coins? I'm reminded of the Godfather, the iconic moment in the Godfather, you come to me now on the day of my stable dollars minting. It seems to me there's no more complex of interest anymore. So, you know, this new presidential to them started. Even before that, where the multifunctional Trump and the millennium meme coins are believed in our planning a suite of defy projects as well. It seems like it's open season now and the various branches of the US government seem like a sleep at the wheel. Nothing seems to be being done there. Whether you think a government's a good and functional or not that don't seem to be saying we're doing very much. I've always been quite skeptical of stable coins like a Ragnarctical in 2019. Questioning whether stable coins would be the answer to Bitcoin's volatility like in a bear market when the volatile assets are going down everyone looks to stable coins as a safe haven. But we know that there's all of these kind of risks associated with them, whether it's whether collateral's held as with ongoing saga about with tether, whether it's these kind of algorithmic basis. We saw you had these things like what's going called base the blue up then the same people made terror, which I think has now entered the all time crypto disaster. A whole of fame and now like yeah people like Joshua trying to do these things with what people and crypto now call real world assets trying to collateralize and put you know build trust in stable assets using. Real world stuff i'm pretty skeptical about all of it and but I do want to acknowledge the fact that there is this massive affordance of stable coins, especially for people that don't have access to strong currencies like so people that don't have access to the dollar in particular. i've seen this described as one of the most massive potential financial arbitrage possibilities in history and that people that don't have access to us banking can now basically use dollars you know to a greater or less extent. So there is something there that's what there is one great affordance of these things at the very least and but i'm incredibly skeptical that the Donald Trump and his. crime family are going to be helping anyone before they help themselves. It's unlikely that they're thinking of the young african child losing his money from inflation and having the stable coin on their app but it is it is true that we've gone from saying hey everyone should have Bitcoin to everyone should have access to a stable coin but you're right for the developing world it's far too risky to have access to Bitcoin you cannot afford to go a 30% up and down swing if you're a farmer or. If you're a very small businessman in another country is still going back to this issue with the stable coins and i'm not going to be popular with any libertarians here this still seems like something that the United States government should offer if Trump wants to make a stable coin we have this thing called the US dollar they could make a digital US dollar all the things that they don't like about the existing market could be replaced with an actual US dollar where the fees if there were any. Would go to the treasury to the upkeep to creating this digital dollar and yes it could be a pinopticon but they could design it in a different way but in general I think that we're outsourcing things that the government could do and if you want to who could back it up the government would back it up just like the dollar same thing. Instead of this complex arrangement where it's in some guys account some guy named Tony's going to take it out the back go ahead. I think that is is that you know I would rather see competition I'd rather see US DC US DT all of these people creating as many stable coins as possible and let the market figure out whose trustworthy and who's not the market will figure that out by the price. US D pegging if they feel that it's not trustworthy whereas if you have a pinopticon coin that contract can trace everything that they will inevitably build a reservoir or sorry build a a moat around themselves a regulatory moat not to compete just like anything the government does and and then monopolize that which is not what you want. By the way I just want to clarify with the standard we don't have real world assets in there we do have one token which is tax gold but we've sort of de listed it it's mainly rap Bitcoin and ETH that you use and because you can track the volatility of that it's always got to be more in the math just says if it drops less than the value of borrowed then the whole thing just gets liquidated into the market so it's. And I think this is you know I can wish as much as I want for Bitcoin to be the reserve currency never use it but when I go to conferences everyone says I'm selling that how much I it's fifteen dollars. Do you take Bitcoin now but I'll take stable coins it's because people are just psychologically used to dealing in dollars and cents or rupees or euros but flipping over to something with 18 decimal places like an a theorem or. Or a decimal plate like it's just too it's too much for people to get the head around and even if you flip it to sats then they have to calculate that is don't want to so rather than fighting the existing. The site guys to people's comfort the only way to get true adoption I feel personally and maybe I'm probably wrong who knows but it is to basically work with the thing that people know but back it with Bitcoin yeah anyway that's that's just. Just a quick note before we move on I'm I used to work at the digital currency initiative at the MIT media lab one of the projects that was going on and the period of time that I was there was a pilot with the Boston Fed to build a prototype digital dollar. System and architecture of that was modeled on Bitcoin was actually even simpler than Bitcoin so they use the very Bitcoin like architecture for that and it wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen honestly was looked at downside more sturdy than most of the stable coins on the market and just to say something about sturdiness of stable coins as well and I appreciate that you know we live in these market times and letting the market decides all well and good but very often when say stable de pegs. The people left home the bag of the less sophisticated market participants they might be again let's say global South people or people that have let access to a financial technologies and banking just something to bear in mind free let ourselves be ruled by the raw hierarchy and market forces. I think it's also worth noting like with seem brings up there are other stable coin projects there's a Fed coin that he was working on a friend of mine was working on something at bank of America Facebook had their coin all of the things learned all of the slow academic work done in those projects will be all thrown out as they make something fly by wind or fly by the middle of the night here at world Liberty financial it's very sad that we never seem to recycle any of that knowledge or build on those old projects or so and just say we're going to. Take the Facebook coin and we're going to stamp world Liberty on it instead they're like we're making a new thing and it's built on the finance platform and the Ethereum platform and it's going to be stable because Joey has the keys to the account and you can trust Joey. But I agree with you Josh people have a false belief that the dollar is stable that the stock market is stable especially as we've seen this week that can change very quickly and I'm reminded when you mentioned what the standards doing with loans. Back to BTC jam and just kind of what a bad idea of BTC jam was because we let the people take the Bitcoin off the website when you got the loan of like a point one or whatever it was not that much back in the day you would take it off the site go buy a car you know do your job you were supposed to bring the money and pay it back. All we had to do to make that a gazillion dollar idea was not let them take it off the site just let them essentially take the loan to gamble with Bitcoin that you could bet on Bitcoin or you could bet on the loan and this way you could be in a stable crime of getting the loan back or you could be an adventure coin of the Bitcoin. But Josh what do you think it's interesting forever ago in jam. Oh, just taking a loan taking a loan in Bitcoin is a terrible idea because if it goes up in value like crazy you owe back way more than any interest whatever charge and and so this is why you see on the lending markets all of the if you if you're lending out Bitcoin. No one's borrowing it so the interest you earn on Bitcoin loans is on something like are they is tiny compared to stable coins so if you put up your tether to borrow you can charge 9% but if you put it up your Bitcoin to borrow you can charge 0.01% or something like so no one's willing to borrow Bitcoin at its raw but to use it to collateralize with makes a lot of sense. You use the Bitcoin to collateralize and and then mint a stable coin against that at 0% interest and that's really what we've been working on at the standard. And it's been a long time now but we had real world stories of that disaster Josh there was a kid he might have borrowed 30 bitcoins it might have been a hundred but the price changed Bitcoin wasn't 10 bucks anymore it was a hundred bucks or it was 300 bucks and the kid was way out of his league he was never going to get back in he was well. Meaning he'd make a couple granded come back and give it to these poor investors but he's never ever going to catch that 30 Bitcoin or that hundred Bitcoin and this was the kind of site where you can take those kind of risks real easily so it was a real wild west thing back in the day but I think I think how close we were if we just not let them take the money off the site. It's like you say you could liquidate it you can pay off the interest whatever you can you own the capital and we did not. So but let's move on to the exit question which is really more important than anything predicting the price of Bitcoin in the future. Victoria Jones will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. What do you know with the stock markets looking a bit shaky I'm going to say lower. West email Cindy higher or lower. I'm going to say higher but I'm not sure it's going to stay high for long. Even the dead cat bounces Josh Shagalla higher or lower. Oh that cat is going to bounce. For sure. I still think there's a possibility we've got all these technical traders I think we're going to talk about more in the next issue but I think there's still a possibility what does the ball think? Well the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week. And it says it is decidedly so it is decidedly so the ball is optimistic moving on to issue three Bitcoin gearing up for next leg of acceleration phase research from fidelity digital assets suggest that the Bitcoin bull market is not done yet as the quote acceleration cycle. Has yet to produce a blow off top so it's a bit like a volcano it's a physical item now. Victoria Jones what do you think about the price of Bitcoin and the unproduced blow off top. Yeah well reading the article most of their argument is based on the fact that the bull market has traditionally lasted longer in the past and it has this time. But you know I think we are living under different conditions because you know ever since 2009 especially with quantitative easing we've been we've just been in this situation of perpetual monetary easing but of course since 2022 there've been efforts being made especially since the pandemic to try and rein that in. And even now with the doge initiative over in the US and then the tariffs and the raising of interest rates we're we're working in very different conditions and you know in a lot of financial advisors will say that you know past performance is no indication of future performance I think conditions have changed I don't think they're going to change forever I think eventually they're going to lose control of the situation I don't think you know if you try and create a deflation in these environments you're going to create a huge. So we're going to create a huge situation which is then going to require lowering interest rates and then we'll be back off to the races but until that happens and when it does happen there's no telling how far things could fall because we've not been in the situation yet since Bitcoin was invented so. I don't I think you need to be very very careful watching what's happened in the past because conditions have changed and also now that we've got the ETFs you know that started the bull run prematurely and it could well be that we've finished the bull run prematurely you just don't know and I think you know when you're dealing with such a high risk asset you need to plan for every scenario because Bitcoin can always surprise you. Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth Mike Tyson where see mouse Cindy what do you think of the price of Bitcoin the treasury secretary says that Bitcoin's a store of value but I never quite seem to get to see it that way. Well I think Victoria's right to you know give us warnings to heed and this article from coin telegraph has basically everything from coin telegraph is I believe there's an exotic material called hopeium which crypto traders imbibe from time to time and this appears to be grade a stash of that. What worth saying I think the last bull cycle also ended somewhat prematurely with a bunch of exchange hacks and other kinds of catastrophes so a lot of people have argued actually in the last run we didn't have a blow off top and so would say that there's no you know it's not some kind of four told destiny that we get a blow off top Bitcoin goes six X from here and you know we all meet each other on the beach in Barbados I think it could be mostly bad news from. Now and you know when the bad news starts can be several years of bad news so i would advise people to be wary of these kinds of ball posts from people that let's face it they have. Reason to talk to market these are people that are making fees on transactions on custody of these assets and so of course people for the digital assets want you to think that it's a good time to buy some more Bitcoin but it might it's always a good idea to buy Bitcoin you gotta be careful when you do it. Josh and go I will see mostly negativity from the panel here what do you say. I'm. Positive for the way I think it's great I think everything that's happening is is fantastic needs to happen i'm really loving i'm loving those I think it's just fantastic cut all that stuff out really getting someone in there with the with the. The glass just cutting it all cutting it all as much as you can if you make some fuck ups with your will just like any company. Put together some search just such normal. Sensible things like if you're going to spend money within the state you have to put a line item in and say what the hell it is and where it's going and who's it for and what it's from which budget coming from and that has to go into the payment system. That way you can track this stuff it's it's crazy that the state is allowed to just spend as much as the ones without anything so without any sort of oversight at all it's just i don't know if there's half a trillion dollars missing we literally cannot trace it cannot trace it it's just open for corruption it's just so bad so bad so it's really good and it inspires the rest of the world so. i'm i'm really glad it's happening and i hope that it inspires Australia that inspires Europe. To to get in there because any big corporation you see this big corporations as well they become so big that it becomes hard to track and there's all these computer licenses that you didn't know you needed software licenses things it just becomes overly come you saw it with Twitter before you don't took it over it was just bloated way too many employees. And just bloat so for the American taxpayer think it's it's a huge huge win to have this time to reset and you know there'll be mistakes but hopefully they'll be corrected quickly. Oh we'll see the current studies show them not saving much and remember if they do save anything they're going to give it all back into the billionaire's tax cut which they've got coming up as far as the price of Bitcoin i'm still kind of with this guy i mean it's like it's like a what seems that it's hope you're like it's ridiculous at this point but there is a possibility that Bitcoin and crypto exist outside of the normal market and that they're able to rally through this maybe through our the local market. Maybe through our the large buys Michael sailor and others buying Bitcoin buying your Bitcoin when you sell it and all of that maybe they see Bitcoin as the safe haven asset that we always thought it was maybe this is the time this is the time that happens anyway let's keep moving check out world crypto network dot com or we've got 4,271 videos that you could watch for more than three months 21 days and 11 hours straight that's a long time. So that's a long time. So let's go back to the question. What's the problem with the global crypto network dot com issue 4 Iran's revolutionary guard steel officers are accused of stealing 21 million dollars in crypto while investigating a corruption case. What do you think for Tory Jones about the revolutionary guard perhaps dipping into the funds during a crime case. I mean I think on this show many times you've talked about one of the problems of corporations and governments you know using Bitcoin it's just like who holds the keys. How do you manage the keys even if you use multi-sick here do you give responsibility of it to so yeah and the this is this is you know one of the features of decentralized currency and that's one of the reasons why it will change the world you know all of these dynamics are going to be disrupted. And situations like this will prompt that. It does seem incredibly unfortunate they had this Iranian exchange they were doing well they got investigated and then allegedly these guys investigating them took the money was seeing what do you think about the same old story but this time with the revolutionary guard sounds like a dangerous people to rob. We've always said that cryptocurrency is a monetary revolution and so perhaps the right found the product market fit now with the Iranian revolutionary guard they sound like they should be revolutionary if you believe their names in the title in their institution I mean one of the financial realities of Iran is the and yeah because of all of the sanctions that have been placed on it primarily by the US but also by other parts of the international community. The country is an economic basket case with inflation like high inflation devalue in currency capital controls difficult to get things in the country and so things like crypto currencies even if you don't think they're useful for anything else as like many of them are not they're very very good for getting in and out of borders and disappearing around the you know nooks and crannies so I'm not surprised to see crypto currency being used. Like by the government or by various parts of you know the organs of state but also the people that work within it you know their subject to the principal agent problem like what they want is not necessarily what's good for their employer or the government and people take matters and private keys into their own hands and we've seen it before and doubtless will be on here again sometime discussing it again. There's a great scene in the movie yes man where Jim carries talking to the bank president and the bank president says calmly as if it was something that everyone knew and everyone accepted he says I would rob this place blind if I could why wouldn't you. And it's just this kind of negative attitude where everyone is out to get everyone and that gets so much worse when you can steal these little digital keys and scoop them up and take millions of dollars instantly you don't have to have a you know a vault full of gold it's not three kings they're not stealing anything heavy here Josh a golly what do you think about the Iranian National Guard and they potentially lost 21 million. Yeah I mean this is the problem that we've been talking about on this show for a very long time with with governments holding Bitcoin is that potentially the government that is in power could use the funds to basically hold the country at ransom or run off with it you can like you always say Thomas you can fill a fit of hell. So you know you can't really get a lot of money of Bitcoin into a briefcase and so. This is the thing it's it you know Bitcoin is already very very hard to secure amongst a few people. You know you can have a multi-seagure but in a government situation where you have a lot of a lot of parties and a lot of parties that have zero knowledge or technical knowledge and then you have you have like a few that have a very strong technical knowledge. You're probably going to get screwed over by the people that have strong technical knowledge or that have strong armaments to and money to pay the people that have a strong technical knowledge so it's it's it's not the best I think still for governments gold is still a much better source of holding a store of value because it's very very difficult to move large amounts of of gold. But yeah it's it's it's interesting it's definitely an interesting first look at at this stuff. It's also a great story because where it comes from because sure we've had law offices and public defenders and things like that have allegedly ran off with the Bitcoin but now we have the the military the Iranian Republican guard something you can trust you know but it hearkens back to catch 22 with Milo Minderbender and how he was ripping everyone off and running the entire government and basically through the military there all the little transactions and it's interesting what they can get away with and no one can be trusted with $21 million of Bitcoin sitting in front of them on the desk. So we'll see if the world Liberty financial and others can stand up to this temptation moving on to issue five Bitcoin is a currency as we've been saying on this show hundreds of times but apparently it only matters if we say it in a fancy office in the Presidio in San Francisco where a nice girl asked asked Josh Dorsey Jack Dorsey to try to talk through his beard and he almost manages it explaining the Bitcoin will become irrelevant if it's only a step forward. If it's only a store of value and not used for payments as the article says black rock CEO says Bitcoin could reduce the dominance of the dollar like we always say the Bitcoin is in direct competition with the dollar they've taken the Trojan horse inside the walls. What's the most any what do you think about the incredible wise words of Jack Dorsey who just discovered Bitcoin yesterday and wants it to be a currency. Well that's not fair Thomas and you know it Jack Dorsey fan Bitcoin a little bit longer ago and he's been a funder of various ecosystem concerns as I believe there's a thing called block which he started not to say that I'm some kind of like massive supporter of fanboy but just want to like you know for balance as some facts into the mix and I think he has a point and like you know this is a point that we you know you and everyone else in this show. I've been laboring for a decade now that you know we know that Bitcoin has this store of value quality and without transactions happening on the chain and like by the way the blocks are pretty empty at the moment people are raising concern about this like the security model of Bitcoin is such and we all know this that every four years or so the number of Bitcoin is going to a minor for finding the wedding block. Divided by two and the idea is that the price of Bitcoin keeps going up to incentivize all the miners like the ones behind me to keep mining all the transaction fees increase to you know up that bribe to keep Bitcoin secure and like one of the primary failure modes. Like this from you know in economic in nature is that people don't use this stuff enough and then the network isn't you know no longer has that security and people lose faith in it and then that would have you know understandable consequences of the price. So I think he's making a good point where he's trying to make a good point but as you say his beard keeps getting stuck in his mouth. I hope he doesn't try to ride a bike with a beard that long that could get nasty. And with the sandals he couldn't do it with the sandals but you're right we do see micro strategy and other large corporations just buying Bitcoin holding it this vault strategy where it never moves around never becomes part of the ecosystem that was never part of the plan before sure it looks good on paper but never part of the plan Josh Tagala what do you think about Jack Dorsey he's here to rescue us from Bitcoin. Well you know I've always been a big fan of moving Bitcoin to my detriment moving Bitcoin in the early days I paid for everything but look back at an hour I'd be a billionaire but instead I'm not so I should have been done the hot all thing instead I was like no we've got to make the move this is this is currency this is the currency the future. Nevertheless it's it does yeah I think that we do have we do have problems we'll see him I think it it is a problem and it's always been a problem with me that that the lightning network does is the is the answer L2 there has to be some L2s but the fact the matter is that the L1 needs transactivity. Needs transactions and because eventually the block reward is going to run a while not run out but become so small that it's not worth it I mean you know saying that we have an absolutely astronomically ridiculously huge hash rate like it's most people cannot grasp the number that is that is happening per second like it's so nuts it's so nuts it's it's equivalent to like every grain of sand on earth times every grain of sand on earth is being hashed every second or something like it's just nuts right now. So I think the network security is good. Well now it's so good for now that it can even come down by half and still be good but yeah it's it's a problem it's definitely a problem that that should be I mean you know it's not like we haven't talked about it at nor see him through the block size debate but but it's not it's not been resolved it's it's still an issue so I would like to see it being used more and and hence you know I'm I like I like using Bitcoin but I think if you're going to go with the total strategy should use it to back a currency that you do use that still decentralized again that's why I'm working on the standard even though that's a wrapped Bitcoin on on the Ethereum chain it would be good if I had the the opportune codes on Bitcoin to build what I've built Bitcoin but it's unfortunate not there. It almost sounds impossible but back when I was working at purse dot IO we would encourage people to spend the Bitcoin then re buy the Bitcoin so you can have you could have $300 you could spend it you could put another $300 back in it's amazing amazing technology but you could try that too but no one ever does it they spend the 300 and then they just forget about it for five years and then they're all mad at you that they spent the 300 they're like you should have told me to keep that I'm still about it. Thomas. There are so many. What do you think about the dominance of Bitcoin and if it should be a currency or not something like Josh said we cover all the time. Yeah absolutely needs to be a currency you know it was when Churchill made the first law to prevent goal being in circulation that the beginning of the unfairness to the average person by gold not circulating as a currency anymore first began so you know the whole point of Bitcoin is getting it back to the stage where it's a currency that everybody uses because it's not going to fulfill its destiny until it does. But at the same time I think we're just at us we're just at this in this we're still in the early stage of the Bitcoin it's still developing its properties as a money. I don't think we're going to stay in this situation forever it's all part of Bitcoin's life cycle and I think by the time we do need transactions on the blockchain in order to support it you know the world will be very different then and you know there's still plenty of time for all of these currencies to collapse at which point that will be the point at which everyone starts to realize why they need to have Bitcoin as a currency it's just a really difficult thing for people to get their heads around right now. And also you know very powerful players it's in their interest to try and disrupt what Bitcoin is used for hence the store of value narrative you know it definitely suits people who want to maintain power you know even by using Bitcoin to support the US dollar rather than using it as a currency is feeding into that narrative which is not what Bitcoin was invented for or the way in which it can actually end up helping the average person. But at the same time I think it will get there eventually it's just we've got a long way to go. Just to say something about L2's as well because they can open the conversation and lightning lightning network is an example of one particular type of L2 but there's a lot of people now trying to do let's say more like Ethereum like L2's that will work with Bitcoin and there's a bit of a reckoning in the Ethereum community recently about the mess that has been caused to the state of L1 Ethereum like the native Ethereum chain which is basically also ghost ghost town these days with very low transaction fees. And so we should be careful what we wish for on Bitcoin be very careful about how we design L2's and other off chain stuff so that it doesn't kind of cannibalize the security budget of the native chain from which all the security arises. Yeah very good point and we do need L2's like it's crazy to think that everything can be done on L1's and the thing is that if you have it cheap enough for everything to be on L1 then you'll get everything you'll get spell checkers you'll get everything being put on L1 which will blow the system so much because humans have an infinite appetite for block space. And so it makes no sense to put everything on L1 either not at all because you know either it's going to be nefariously just used to for laws to destroy the network or it'll be or it'll cost a lot so those laws can't do it so it's either one of those and so by having L2's out there but yeah you're right to architect those L2's to make sure that they constantly. Chain back or peg their security onto the L1 to feed fees back down the chain is super important and yeah let's see. Yeah there's a conversation in the Ethereum network is now asking major L2's to pay kind of like attacks like a retroactively installed tax to kind of bolster the base chain. I'd rather that doesn't seem very kind of a accordance with the principles that I think Bitcoin was created under so I think these are back conversations that best had when these systems are being designed and implemented rather later. On that might be the only way for it to survive that it needs to pay that to support the original chain if you look at the popularity of does coin versus the popularity of like coin like coin might be in trouble yet as far as I know they still provide the technical underpinnings for the does coin network so they need to support the chain and it's interesting a lot of the things we've been focusing on here maybe trying to create a proper consumer environment for Bitcoin I know that bit go when they did the Bitcoin go bit go bowl a long time ago. They gave out little terminals to restaurants and they went all around the neighborhood and then they didn't go all around the neighborhood with customers they couldn't get any customers to go there and maybe the key for Bitcoin is that for it to be truly cool and for people to be kind of forced to use it it has to be illegal maybe we need an or well in state for Bitcoin to flourish and what we really need to do is contribute to the or well in state because that will lead Bitcoin to be illegal forcing people to use it. Victoria Jones does Bitcoin need to be illegal. I don't think it's possible to make it illegal because you know laws by the very nature made by individual countries and the moment you go to a different country and they make a different set of laws you know it's it becomes a nonsense so they can try but good luck with that. It doesn't have to be effectively illegal you just have to ban it and scare people like Levi's jeans or marijuana. Is it illegal in a lot of countries though Thomas so I went to the big Ethereum conference a few months ago not entirely of my own religion and in Thailand making peer to peer transactions is illegal I spent a bunch of time in Egypt this winter and everything is totally banned there. So governments will try but like the people of wise and there's a saying in China or like sort of a way of thinking in China that if the government banned something the people there know that's because it's good for them that's why the government doesn't want them to have it so you kind of have that sort of strison and effects potential there as well so I say bring it on if your governments want to try and ban it that's probably just fuel on the fire. And that's why again this is going to be successful we're using reverse psychology we're saying we want this to happen ban us so we can be more popular Josh a call it does Bitcoin need to be illegal. Oh yeah and the other saying in China is the land is vast and the emperor is far away yeah I mean it was designed to work illegally. It was the reason why Satoshi was anonymous because it was extremely dangerous and there was precedent of private currencies and the owners of the private currency is being put in the slammer for for launching these to these things so you are going up against not only world banks you're going up against the mafia industrial complex of governments you're going up against oil big oil because of the government. Big oil because it's a petrodollar you're going up against so much when you're creating private currency so it was designed to be working in the in the black so. And I guess this is this is the the thesis behind what's outmate the the anarchists from AG right back black money dark money. So it's a full enough. Yeah me a turkey that's what I mean a talk is all about right is is it needs to be illegal for it to work. And and then you will get an actual base that uses it properly not just holds that sells it on coin base and pays their rent. They actually use it and find a rental agreement that will accept Bitcoin. Well, I see in the promise he came at it from the revolutionary angle with the black suit and the black hat and all that he should just come in and the suit and tie and said hey we're here to make Bitcoin illegal like join us. Hey, we've had tons of support a spoiler alert we don't have to advocate for Bitcoin to be illegal it will be illegal soon enough. But we've got a couple more stories here just really briefly a sandbankman freed has been banished to Oklahoma no longer on the same cell block as P did he comes a sandbankman freed gave an illegal interview with Tucker Carlson perhaps as his plan to become a Republican as his leaked documents said in the interview he said what everyone has known and we've talked about many times that he gave money to the Republicans. And the Democrats but more importantly this is about the pardon SPF is attempting to get the Ross all-brecked pardon from Trump will he get it was seem our city will SPF get the pardon. I don't think he's going to get the Ross treatment. I mean not least because there was the enormous free Ross day one campaign and you know to be fair was day two I think. And all like one of the early days of Trump's presidency but he did make good on one of his promises at least. I don't think there's the same kind of sentiment at least in the Republican party like the by the mega or the kind of GOP factions of it for someone like SPF who was really playing the Democrat game like you know it's kind of intergenerational Democrat family giving money to all the Dems and propering up the blue party and so I think he might be on the wrong side of history here and I don't know the ins and outs of the story as to why he's been moved per say I feel like this administration is not going to be as kind to him as it was to Russell. So the goal is SPF's got lots of money. He's got really nice parents. They used to be professors. Can you get a pardon. No, I see him is absolutely correct Ross all-brecked it was a 10 year whatever it was. You know effort by a lot of people to to put pressure on specifically mom is been working tirelessly and Ross is also very different he built a allegedly built a site that that worked for free trade he also had rules about the site there was issues. You know we all know the stories but. This guy created an exchange and basically. Was fraudulent in his business practices and that's just what it is so it's a very different case and I mean Trump all of the promises he's made so far he's kept I haven't seen any that he hasn't so and but there's never been one mention of Ross all-brecked in soul. Can't pay I'm not Russell of of of San Bankman freed so yeah and I had good word from from his mom from Ross's mom back in the day that he Trump was very close to pardoning him last time it's just right at the end there with the way that the election turned out his you know he was not as focused on on the all the pardoning stuff that usually president does at the end of the terms and and dropped it but yeah I'm glad he I'm glad he pardoned Ross and good to see him out and about enjoying nature. They did create very different websites with Ross allegedly building the silk road which of course you prove the drug wars ridiculous Sam built a SPF or FTX where he was able to just dip into the piggy bank and buy whatever he wants to get Tom Brady in an advertisement he just takes some of what seems money as some victorious money and some of Josh's money and puts it all together and buys the advertisement kind of revolutionary in its own way but remember Trump doesn't really care a Ross about Ross all-brecked he doesn't think the drug wars over he doesn't think that he was some kind of a you know a purple there are principled stand you know libertarian leader out there on his principles rejecting a bad law in the same way I don't think the Trump cares the SPF ripped off all those people and took their money maybe if they could get the bribes to the right place they could get this pardon through Victoria Jones what do you think a pardon for SPF? Well I mean it made sense for Trump to pardon Ross because there was so much support behind him and that's ultimately what politics is all about it's a popularity contest and there was so much unwavering support for Ross and such a sense of unfairness because people felt that you know he was exploring a new technology in order to help people because even though you know many people believe you know drugs are bad and they can have negative consequences by creating the website he did he actually made some of those transactions safer and so in many respects although there were issues here the overall effect of what he was doing was positive and so people had a lot of positive feelings towards Ross and hence the political support whereas Sam Bank went free just betrayed everybody and in that situation you know he has no friends and if you have no friends it's lonely in political life and you can try and buy your friends but people see through that very quickly and of course if the political landscape changes you know there's no substance when it all falls apart so yeah there's no way Sam Bank would freeze getting the same treatment as Ross all break. Of course Sam he has no friends and we've just one more quick story to cover we often talk about the Smithsonian museums the great museums of the United States and how one day they dreamed that there would be 50 museums in 50 states you wouldn't have to go all the way to Washington DC you could have a Smithsonian right there in Iowa right nearby but that's not what we're reporting on today unfortunately despite seizing the crypto funding they're not using the crypto funding to expand the Smithsonian to 50 states they're just going to crack down on the Smithsonian's and rewrite history as it says in the Guardian newspaper it reminds you of a fascist state the Smithsonian institution braces for Trump's rewrite of US history normally stayed historians sound the alarm at authoritarians grasping for control of the premier US museum complex and it's not going to be a problem. In the United States we don't have an official history we don't have an official story and this is led to kind of two versions of history what of with the you know founding fathers chopping down the cherry tree and being very you know earlier than now and all that and another version of history where we talk about what really happened with slavery and it seems that we're not going to talk about that history anymore the Trump administration is taking over the Kennedy Center the Smithsonian and they're eliminating the museum and library. The way studies commission which is really disappointing they they don't do much they you know manage museums and libraries and we're not going to have them anymore so that's that for that no we don't get 50 states 50 so the sunions but I continue to campaign for it we're running out of time but let's go to predictions or story of the week with CM else indeed you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead. I'm going to go with that story so I can have my say about it which is so I went to roads the Greek island which was one of the last homes of the crusading nights of lights of rose not nice hospital and the palace there in the capital town of the island got reconstructed by the Italians when they were in possession of those territories in the early stages of Italian fascism and they remade history. And they italianized it so we went to this palace not realizing what was going to happen it was full of just like random shit like Ming vases nothing to do with the actual history of the place so it's very dangerous when fascists or people that are like you know leaning towards those tendencies tend to rewrite history for their own ends for their own glories so don't do that. I completely agree let's go to Josh the goal if you have a prediction or a story of the week what are you guys working on over at the standard there. Yeah so we've just so with the standard you lock up funds into a smart contract smart contract has rules that you control because you control your private key and the rule there's a rule that if the stablecoin drops below a certain price. Like down to 98 cents the smart contract will look for the highest leveraged vote and basically get the collateral to pay off it's like buy this tablecoin burn them so that buy and pressure lifts the price again and and sell the underlying asset that's backing that. And the thing is we didn't want centralized service doing that so we partnered with chain link and chain link have a really interesting technology called automations and automation's user whole bunch of nodes. To determine something's happening and then trigger smart contracts to to do whatever they need to do so we are partnership with chain link set off we've we've launched our automation so no centralize. Party looks at the price it's an oracle system of a whole bunch of nodes thousands of people different nodes or hundreds at least and yeah it's a really interesting technology I think it's it's fascinating so we launched that and now it's that's totally hands free as well so it's really great if ever that and there's always mathematically more collateral locked up inside the smart vaults then there are stable coins so we are in. Unfractional reserve so and it's mathematically approval and everyone still holds their private key so no one can touch their their collateral and so yeah interesting interesting stuff i'm loving building cool shit. See and that that's what these systems should be like they're built over a long amount of time with trial and error and thought and different ideas we don't just you know knock one out in a few days. Good work at the standard dot IO and Victoria Jones do you have a prediction or a story the week go ahead. Yes well as mentioned earlier i'm working on an unexpectedly working on a newsletter called Bitcoin and free trade which i'm hoping to publish on Sunday so if you're interested in that check that out my website satoshi's page dot com. Alright very cool very timely for that article and we're going to continue talking about movies and books at the end of the show it's a nice time for me to share stuff. Obviously this week we lost Val Kilmer at 65 it was a great actor and top gun Batman forever the door so many other movies let's go to Josh Josh what do you think about Val Kilmer obviously lost gene hackman David Lynch Val Kilmer it's been bad for movies lately. Yeah good actor i don't know i'm not really a movie guy as such like I like certain movies don't get me wrong but the personal life of actors I'm not really that I don't know that many so but yeah I like Batman the original one that's cool. It is strange we see them so much in the movies but we don't know them at all in real life and it's interesting the image is left behind Val Kilmer clearly gone but 100 memes on my Twitter everyone with the video seems like he's still around so it's very interesting the way that the image. Especially with AI you can sort of re re spawn them the image anyway. Well and it's more of it I didn't get to around to creating the prompts but I thought to myself boy Val Kilmer and Gene Hackman in a David Lynch film I would watch that. But maybe soon they'll be able to create one with AI and not with like a thousand different prompts like I'd have to but I finished a bunch of books this week check out yes man I read the movie or I read the book behind the movie it's in a lot of ways different and better it's based in London not. Los Angeles so much like high fidelity they moved it across the pond but it's just as fun as the movie if you haven't seen the movie check out the movie yes man and then check out the book I also finally finished the last Ronin the end of the teenage mutant Ninja Turtles it's incredibly heavy if you want to read a big heavy graphic novel about the Ninja Turtles check that out I finished the kid stays in the picture I'd watch the movie years ago but finally got to the audio book of Robert Evans. Reading his story himself about paramount pictures in the 70s producing the Godfather and so far there's been three episodes of the great Seth Rogan News show the studio and all three have had a Bob Evans reference in them good on Seth Rogan. I read the how the South won the Civil War it's pretty heavy and hard to take but important in these days and finally starter villain by John Scalzi about cats who have been in the movie. Cats who can talk and there's a lot of trouble there so just some quick books for you guys to check out and movies give us a thumbs up down below be sure to subscribe if you haven't already and we'll be back again next week so until next time bye bye.