The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the hardest sources, the sharpest satosis, the best Bitcoin talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Vlad, from Bitcoin Takeover Magazine. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. And Ben Arck from LNBIT. Hello all. And now issue one. Arrested Samurai Wallet co-founder to be released on bail. Will contest charges. William Lonergan Hill, known as T-Dev, has been granted bail by the U.S. government. He's one of the two founders of Samurai Wallet, which developed a mixing feature that helped anonymous Bitcoin transactions, and they are now scheduled for court appearances in the coming weeks. Vlad, what do you think about the arrest of the Samurai Wallet founders, and that one of them at least is now out on bail? Well, one meme which I like to perpetuate on Twitter is that we make sacrifices to the altar of 100K. And privacy is part of the sacrifice that we made, because within one month we lost samurai, and then we lost Wasabi. And to me it's interesting that they followed the legal procedure to be able to fight back. It's admirable. I was stuck in this battle between samurai and Wasabi for a while. Each camp was calling each other the Spooks, the government agents trying to compromise everyone else's privacy. It turned out that they were both honest. Just strange, but it's nice. It's just reassuring to see that people are on the right side, and they're going to fight. And if I'm not mistaken, will William Hill, aka T-Dev, used this defense and said that they don't arrest terrorists for using Apple laptops or something, Macbooks. And some protocols or software or hardware, there are just tools that they can be used for anyone, and there's nothing wrong with privacy. And I use coin joints whenever someone sends me a donation to my page, because I don't to spend the bitcoins under their identity. Because I'm pretty much aware that a lot of them use exchanges. And if they send coins from exchanges to me, I don't want to spend them, and I don't want the party receiving the transaction to assume that it's that person. I don't know who that is in the first place, so I don't want to take on that risk. So I would rather take on the risk to receive self-road coins part of my stats. I don't know. It's just that money has to become fungible one way or the other. It's unfortunate that Bitcoin doesn't have more advanced privacy, even though there's a lot of research into better confidentiality, but it's a good start. And I'm happy that T-Dev is out of jail. It was interesting, Vlad. The Samurai versus wasabi debate ended horribly. Fans of both sides were unsatisfied as they both shut down. There really was no winner. Let's go to Victoria Jones, your thoughts on the Samurai developer who's now out on bail. Well, I'm not particularly familiar with this specific case. Obviously, the debate surrounds privacy on Bitcoin in general. And I think it's just part of a continuous battle that we're involved in. Obviously, many of us in the Bitcoin community are understand that privacy is important. My personal take on it is that it's important that we have transparency with countries and companies, which is a different point, but it's very important that individuals have privacy because in terms of our global community, it's the individuals who are vulnerable. So it is really important to have privacy at that level. So obviously, these were warriors fighting for privacy. Obviously, there may well be arguments about exactly how it's implemented. But where Wond or Closed, another one opens. Bitcoin developers are now working on a new technology called Silent Payments, which one mentioned last week, which is privacy technology that's actually going to be incorporated in the wallets rather than just the Bitcoin technology. So all hope is not lost. There are always new ways in which whatever we're trying to achieve on Bitcoin can be achieved. So interesting developments. Ben, the Bitcoin developer is famously concentrated on scaling instead of privacy, do you think they made a mistake? I mean, we need both. And as far as I can see, we need Bitcoin foremost to be fungible. And it can't be fungible if it's not private. And if we have some coins which are mixed and dirty coins and some coins which are kind of clarinet and have history, it creates like an unfundable asset, which isn't really what we want with Bitcoin as money. But I think we'll get there. That Victoria was saying. And it was just in this particular case, was an example of hardening. It was interesting that, because I imagine if you were to ask Samurai or Samurai a couple of years ago whether they could be, or whether they would be subject to regulation, they would say, oh, no, not at all, you know, our technology is so great. We're never going to get regular blah blah. Clearly they were. And what was great about it was off the back of it, will Sam be closed down. And then a few weeks later came back, but using Noster for the, what they called the coordinators for the mixing. And that means that they're now no longer able to be regulated in the way which they were before. So it's a great hardening exercise. And also a great example of how Noster can be used in new and innovative and interesting ways. So definitely an interesting case to watch unfold. And I'm just happy for the Samurai guys, because it's must have been very scary for them to be unlocked up. And speaking of Wasabi, now they have this distributed coordination process. Basically there used to be only one which belonged to the company that developed the wallet. Now you can find a lot of them on wasabiist.com, wasabiist.com. And you can see what fees they have and how many coin joints they had in the last 24 hours. And yeah, they use Noster to coordinate basically to index all of this data and relay it and be able to figure out, you know, the average user should not have much technical knowledge of how this works. All they have to do is just copy just a small part, an address which they put into the configuration file of the wallet. And that's how you point your wallet to the coordinator. And I think Samurai to come back to the initial topic also tried something similar a couple of months before the devs got arrested. I don't think I'm not going to explain why or express an opinion on why, but for some reason wasabi became more popular among the community as opposed to Samurai. When Samurai developers were arrested, the project just stalled. It got shut down. There was nobody who picked it up and said, okay, we're the new Samurai's. But what wasabi, everyone wanted to run a coordinator because they understood there's a lot of money to be made. And there's one by BTC pay server. There's one by former contributors to the project. And I've had the new old developers who are still working on wasabi and they still receive money from the coordinators to maintain the wallet as an open source project, not as a company. And it's going to be interesting in the next few years because they want to make payments available directly from coin joins and they also want to integrate some of that silent payments that Victoria mentioned. It's going to be a lot of fun, but I do hope that we get much better confidentiality. Wasabi is probably more popular because it's spicy. Moving on to the exit question, forced prediction, predict the future. The Samurai wallet developers developed software, software that the US government claims, enabled money laundering and other crimes. Will they be found guilty? Vlad. Of course not. Victoria. I think they'll be found whatever the US government wants them to fight once to find. I know that that's flexible. I think they're in a sticky position because they did speak about it quite publicly, who their clients were. And that's very, very risky. And so we should all, I mean, whatever the verdict is, we should all take a lesson from that. If you're building this software which can be used for other stuff, don't talk about the other stuff. For the good, clear, and that use case is not the other use cases. But no, good luck to him. I don't know. I mean, good luck. I just wish them all the bad luck in the world. The answer is guilty. The pitch deck will condemn them because the pitch deck says they'll make money through like Ben said, gray activities. Unfortunately, you put that kind of thing in writing, you deliver it to some VC. It's on the record now. You're raising money for crime. It's never going to work in jury situations. Bad for, jury is bad for judges, bad for the samurai wallet developers. Unfortunately, moving on to issue two, El Salvador. Again, President Bukkelli is back this week and he's making a great speech. He says that all the businessmen in El Salvador should lower their prices or else. He might even do to the businessmen what he did to the gang leaders, i.e. arrest them randomly in the streets without rights like every other dictator in history. We at this show are not surprised to see the dictator acting like a dictator. However, this came to a surprise to many libertarians who risked their lives, their futures, their money, and their reputations on the word of a random dictator who's quite frankly a little bit violent. And now, things are turning bad for them. Victoria Jones, what do you think about El Salvador who they are now suddenly calling a communist? Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, starting to arrest business owners for putting up their prices is a classic communist move and is definitely incompatible with the principles behind Bitcoin, which ultimately is designed to support free market capitalism. So, yeah, diametrically opposed, I would say it's a case of irresistible force meeting a movable object where the movable object is slightly less immovable than the irresistible force. And so, of course, Bitcoin will inevitably win surprising bukelly and finally giving the libertarians their modus operandi back again. Ben Arich, obviously we can't choose who uses Bitcoin, but they sure chose this guy, they chose to support him. And now he's speaking out against free enterprise and business. It's a real tricky one and it's like the Chicago Bulls, the Chicago Bulls, Milton Friedman and Chicago Bulls who went out and supported Pineshae in Chile. When there's someone who is a bit dictator, and he starts to say things which you agree with, whether you be a libertarian, whether you be a Bitcoiner, then if you just go and back them without being too skeptical, it can turn around to buy you as it did with Milton Friedman and his crew. And it was always the worry with bukelly that he would do the same. It was a war zone, so we can't apply our own sort of sensitivities when it comes to the democratic process and all that sort of stuff and how people incarcerated in that environment because it was a war zone, had the highest murder in the world after actual war zones. And I met a guy on the plane coming back from our Salvador, it was like the third time I'd been and he wasn't even a Bitcoiner. And I wondered whether I was just biased because I want the place to succeed because of the Bitcoin thing. But he was saying no, it's safe now, like his parents before were just terrified all the time and they wouldn't go out at night and now they'll go out to restaurants and live a normal life. So there was a lot of good which happened, but obviously they had more heavy energy while the more innocent people who were suffer. He did lack political opponents, that's bad. He is now starting to do that thing which people do when they have a sniff of power is they have more power and they try and take. And it's like a train wreck you're seeing in slow motion and decisions you're seeing being made and you just don't want it, what you want is him to now say, okay I fixed the country, let's have an election, an actual fair election and I'll stop incarcerating their political opponents but I don't think that's going to happen. So it's kind of sad to see this thing which you didn't want to happen like because you want it to work, you want ourselves to continue to grow and be prosperous. So yeah, hopefully he'll turn around but yeah, it doesn't look good. You start locking up business people. Well, it definitely seems once you start locking up people arbitrarily, you just can't stop. You know, first there's a gang member who's now it's going to be the bad businessman, who knows who it'll be next. I certainly hope for our friend of the show Max Kaiser and Stacy who move their entire operation to El Salvador who blindly supported the dictator as they've perhaps supported others on RT before in the past and it did look at the whole time and now it looks even worse. I have to see how it turns out. The flat, what do you think about El Salvador and the dictator who suddenly is being called a communist? Well, you mentioned Max Kaiser and Stacy and their advisors to the president of El Salvador and we do have to understand that these dictators are not almighty and competent in every possible field and they do have a lot of advisors and who is the economic advisor to the president of El Salvador? It's Safedin, of all people in the world, it's Safedin, the author of the Bitcoin standard. Is he really? Well, maybe not domestic economics but it's certainly Bitcoin economics. So, Bikari wants to become a king because that's what Safedin wants to be. It doesn't mean so. Yeah, yeah, maybe not. Yeah, it's a monochrome. So congratulations, Bitcoin, or seen, able to do this. It's been a mess the whole time. I can't think of an exit question but best of luck to the people of El Salvador, I hope it turns out. And once again, we're still waiting for that moment where we find out how many of their Bitcoin can fit into a suitcase. Spoiler alert, it's all of them. Moving on to issue three, colossal buying pressure for Bitcoin and Salana as FTX planned $16 billion distribution. The people who invested in FTX are getting some of their money back and they might use it to buy Bitcoin unlike the Mount Goxers who were afraid after 10 years of forced awdling. Maybe the FTXers will just jump right back into crypto. Ben, Arqu, what do you think about the possibility of the FTX users getting their money back and if they'll buy Bitcoin? Yeah, they may have been stung but yeah, more hopefully they'll buy Bitcoin. Yeah, why not? Or Salana, I can't believe whatever that is. Yeah, that's good news and I suppose they're going to get the money back. I'm not sure what's happening. I honestly, I don't know enough about the stories we've come in on it to be honest. I pay a little attention. Is that something I'm thankful for? Are they killed in the out of the used to live? Still alive in life. Still alive in life. It looks like he's joined a gang and getting a lot more harder. He probably knows all the kind of abbreviations and hand signals. Whoa. So he'll join MS-13 and then into the Cali prison. I think again, it's an opportunity for him to advise them economically and perhaps they can make a nice amount on their cryptocurrency holdings. Vlad, what do you think about FTX getting back their Bitcoin, the possibility that they'll reinvest? Well, it's beautiful. It only took them a couple of years as opposed to Mount Gox, which is still going. We're getting better at these bankruptcies each one we go through better the next time. You can deny. It took the Japanese government ten years. It took the American government two years. I mean, congratulations. There's a rare support for the American government here. Yeah. I've been called a status since I got my US travel visa. I got a double down on that because Safedin taught me that. When you're wrong, you double down. Double down. Very good. I read the Bitcoin standard, by the way. The other one. Let's go to Victoria Jones. What do you think about the FTX users getting their money back and if they'll reinvest? Well, if I remember correctly, wasn't it the case that when FTX collapsed, they didn't actually hold much Bitcoin. They held everything else apart from Bitcoin. The holders might have thought they were holding Bitcoin, but most of their assets were backed by something else, completely mainly the FTX token. What's his name from Binance? Yeah, decided to, you know, scupper via Twitter. So yeah, there's a lot of shady stuff going on. I get the impression that a lot of people who were investing were badly advised. I think Josh has said on the show that he's particularly scathing about the traditional financiers who were being advised to invest in FTX who clearly didn't do their due diligence. And remember, Sam Bankerin's freed giant head and his afro were on the cover of Fortune magazine. They were plastered across San Francisco, even on toilets and other municipal buildings. He was the whiz kid of Wall Street. He was the one that was going to bring us regulated Bitcoin, regulated crypto exchanges. What was the next JP work at the time? And it was the exact opposite. Yeah. So ultimately, the people who were investing in FTX weren't actually the most knowledgeable or the most wise. So whether or not all the people who get their money back are then going to invest into Bitcoin. I have no idea. And considering that the next thing on the traditional financiers agenda is an Ethereum ETF. You know, I reckon that's where they'll put their money. So I wouldn't hold out too much hate from buying Bitcoin, but you never know. I think we should ask Matt Damon. I think we should ask Matt Damon what the FTX people will do because most of them invested because of that advertisement with Matt Damon, which said that fortune favors the bold. There was even a South Park episode about it. Oh, so much South Park about it. Although the interesting thing, if they waited long enough, if they waited till now, everyone that invested on that commercial is in the profit now. It came back. So fortune favored the bold who operate on a long time span. But I definitely agree. As Safedin says, low time preference. I definitely agree with Matt that we've gotten better at these things. Took 10 years from outgocks, two years for this. The people might go back into crypto. Whereas if you had your money in outgocks for 10 years, you're going to be a little scarred by it. I think you're going to have a hard time reinvesting. Let's keep moving. Let's move to issue four. God bless Bitcoin. A new movie and a new trailer about the title God bless Bitcoin, which I assumed would be based by Jimmy Song and his friend's book of the same title. However, seems like a completely different documentary. When you play the trailer, you expect to see the usual faces of Bitcoin commentators. Instead, you're greeted by NBA player John Sally, famous NBA owner who criticized Bitcoin Mark Cuban and professional skateboarder Tony Hawk. Vlad Kosta, what do you think about this new world of Bitcoin movies and Bitcoin trailers without any Bitcoin or his in them? That depends on how you define a Bitcoin or because Tony Hawk said he has been holding since 2013. Mark Cuban bought into... I think it was some defy stuff. He did famously say on Rolling Stone that he would prefer to buy bananas. Then bananas were delicious and that they had an expiration date. He had many economic reasons why one watching that video should invest in bananas instead of Bitcoin. But now he's an expert. You can trust him. But don't forget that we're still early, right? I mean, we have these talking points that we used to present in bingo halls and places like this just talks between nerds and then you get a bunch of celebrities saying the exact same stuff. But in a dumb down... In a way that appeals to the masses, I will not be... I'll try to be diplomatic. I need to learn that. And yeah, it makes me wonder what's next for the next cycle. We used to have Elon pumping our bags and then crashing the price with just one tweet. And now we have these celebrities and now we have Trump, of all people. What's next? What's going to happen in the next cycle? Some kind of emperor or something. But it was surprising as I watched the trailer, I expected a lot more religious content. I expected more from the pre-store, the rabbi. Instead, I got the basketball player and the professional skateboarder. And they weren't saying religious things which would have been fine if that's their own opinion and view. Like Vlad's saying, they were repeating the exact same things we've said on our shows and Vlad says on his shows and his magazine and everything else for the last decade. But they were acting like they're brand new. Bitcoin democratizes society. Bitcoin provides access to all peoples. As if they just heard it yesterday and we haven't been saying it for a decade. So I was pretty disappointed in that. Victoria Jones, at the end of the trailer, David Bailey from Bitcoin magazine who owns all of the Bitcoin media said that Bitcoin is the new money that will get money out of politics. Of course, he's also the one who got RFK Jr. into the race with more than a million dollars in donations and now has invited Trump to Nashville. So it seems a lot more like he's putting money into politics rather than taking it out. Yeah, I definitely agree with him. I think Bitcoin does break politics, but I think he's also probably a realist and realises that at the moment we still work and live within a political system. And I think he's just taking advantage of that because ultimately the politicians are completely clueless about what they're getting themselves into. And it's a classic case of thinking that you can control something when it's actually uncontrollable and by the time you realise it's too late. I'd also worry about the religious people. They say that for a rich man to enter heaven, it's like a camel fitting through the eye of a needle. So to hear the rabbi and other people going on in the video that Bitcoin, IE money or monetary power is a new way to talk to God and a new way to communicate with the great one and so forth. I worry about that. I'm not sure that's what Jesus would say about money. It's more about feeding people, helping people rather than maybe collecting it all and getting a higher score and getting a faster line to the Almighty. Ben Arck, what do you think about the new trailer and the new direction of Bitcoin documentaries that will not contain any Bitcoiners? No more nerds, celebrities only from now on, please. Yeah, so I suppose like debt-based money. So if you look at the Christian doctor and usually he's a sin and it does make sense that non-bet-based money would be pure. I had an interview with Paco in Costa Rica and it's on the show. It's on WCN on the World Cup of Network if you look through the videos. And in here he articulates in the best non-cringy way that there is something pure about Bitcoin and the kind of gold and he talks about how in India they appreciate gold because gold is pure like garden. He says it is such a way where it doesn't sound excruciating the cringe. And we all have that I think. We all have this feeling that this thing has something pure to it. So I can imagine that people through the religious lens apply some morality to this new form of money which we have. I don't trust anything on the internet now, like with the AI stuff. I've seen it, I just can't trust anything. So I don't even know if Tony Hawk did that. Like did he do that? You know? But whether they knew they were on a religious-based video, Bitcoin promotion video, I'm not sure. But it is fun watching these people say all the things we've been saying for years and years and now they're all catching up. To be honest everyone will just forget who we are at some point and they'll all just be coming out with this stuff and everyone will think they're these amazing innovators. But on David Bayley, we were talking earlier that he gets a lot of flak in our community for I think because he controls a lot of the media stuff. That means very opinionated. Well for the record he had an earlier Bitcoin magazine, something like Consensus or something like that. He purchased Bitcoin magazines started by Vitalik and the guys from Bitpay. Then he purchased Let's Talk Bitcoin Audio Podcast Network which apparently they did nothing with and just threw in the corner. There's a lot of purchasing. Yeah, a lot of purchasing. And he gets a lot of stick but personally he's only ever been good to me and very encouraging and nurturing too when I first started making stuff. He paid for me to go out to San Francisco and retrofit these arcade machines to accept lightning. And for him it was kind of a gamble and no one thanked him for it. I was the one getting all the praise for retrofit but it was him who organized that. And I know he did again the same with Francis from Changeable as well. And I think Flaggy had good experiences with Bailey, David Bailey as well. So he is... Yeah, in his own way. He's nurturing some Bitcoiners in a way which he doesn't get praise for and I'm really recognized as our acknowledges it. So I think he's a good guy. And with the whole Trump stuff, I'm conflicted. I'm going to Nashville. I'm going to have to sit and see Trump and all the mega hats and whatever else. But maybe David Blades, maybe he's just deploying the Trojan. He's like, I'll deploy the Trojan. I'll get this guy into Bitcoin and then we'll inject the thing which will also destroy these evil corporate politicians and whatever else. So anyway, whatever. David Bailey for me just gets a pass because he's always been very good to me in the past and he's a good dude. Well, it certainly is a wonderful thing to have a major presidential candidate in the United States talking about Bitcoin. It's just unfortunate that it happens to be this one and what he's promised to do to our country. There's going to be two out of three which I think is impressive. And I tweeted about this that 10 years ago, a Bitcoin conference was about interest on Tnopula speaking to 10 people, maybe. At best. And now you get two out of three presidential candidates from the United States going on stage at a Bitcoin conference saying, yeah, I like Bitcoin. I mean, it's incredible. I don't care about the particular politics. It's just the fact that they are there for Bitcoin. And because they got money from Bitcoiners, that's the point. They received a lot of donations for their campaigns. And we should not neglect the fact that the incumbent president tried to choke Bitcoin. I don't know how else I should put it. He tried to destroy the entire industry and he was ill advised, maybe. And there are no signs that he's going to backpedal on it. I think they're going to double down and say it was Elizabeth Warren's campaign that she's building this army against crypto and they're going to over regulate everything. And I think a bunch of business people just said, okay, we're not making the profits we expected. How do we stop this? And they saw, I guess, Trump or RFK as the only way in which they can possibly find some hope that these regulations are going to be removed. It's, you know, politicians want to get elected and businesses want to keep running. They just, it's a mutual convenience here. I don't think there's any ideological alignment. And I think it's also important to remember that politics is ultimately a popularity contest. You know, really a politician's job is to sense what the population wants and promise to give it to them in order to win an election. What they do after an election is often very different to what they promise before an election. And you know, this is just par for the core. And even if Trump changes his mind after the election, because as you rightly say, you know, in 2017, Trump was bragging about the fact that he popped the Bitcoin bubble. Even if he changes his mind, it does something completely different afterwards. He's destroying his own reputation. And even in the process of fighting for Bitcoin during the election, he's raising the profile of this new asset in a way that no one else could really. So, you know, I think it's all for the good. Yeah, I do think that's important to note that Trump was very much against Bitcoin publicly mocked. Trump spoke against Bitcoin, lost his power, now suddenly seems to pander to anybody, whether it's the libertarian convention, whether it's the Bitcoin convention. And at the end of it, it's always the same story. They need money. He's got his hand out and he wants your Bitcoin donations. And again, with the pardon issue, there was a lot of talk about imparting Ross Olberg at the end of his term. That's when pardons come. So if we were going to do that again, another four years from now, maybe he'll do it if he feels like it. The same thing for the economic policy. I just think you have to be very careful in making a deal with the politician, especially one that has kind of broken so many promises publicly over and over and over again. But let's keep moving. Let's move to issue five. Bitcoin price may hit $1 million by 2033, which is what we've been saying forever. Ben Arquady, think about the possibility of Bitcoin breaking $1 million and what people will do then. This is the only price which matters. Oh, shit. Sorry. The only price which matters is $600 billion. It's $600 billion or we'll get out. That's the price prediction. Anything lower than that is just fud. So this is yet another photo article on Bitcoin not achieving its goal is $600 billion. Bitcoin. I do think it's funny how every week we have a new comment or a financial analyst who's just woken up to Bitcoin and like you say, they're all fighting to have the larger prediction. You said a million. I say 1.2. I say 1.25. You know, all this nonsense. Mad bitcoins, of course, is already publicly predicted on the record. Infinity price for Bitcoin, meaning that the entire market will shift over and will start pricing everything in terms of Bitcoin. How much it's worth, whether it's the pyramids or the Louvre or lunch, price it in Bitcoin. So I do think we'll see that but we'll see a lot more ridiculous predictions until then. Vlad Koster, what do you think about the possibility of Bitcoin hitting a million dollars by 2033? It sounds realistic. That's nine years from now. It's not out of the ordinary for Bitcoin to do something like that. But my question is, what's the price of food going to be when one Bitcoin is $1 million? How much? A hamburger costs 100,000 citatouchees. Still a good deal. I mean, it is 100,000 citatouchees today. So if Bitcoin just adjusts to the inflation rate, I think that's pretty good. It's still a good performance. It beats most stocks, I guess. But at the same time, I don't know. It takes a lot of money to reach that. I don't know if people realize that we need, I think, right now a 6x from here to reach the market cap of gold. And that's still a huge achievement. And how much is that in terms of price? $300,000? And we need three times more to be able to go to, of course, of course. You have a limited supply. You can have a lot of people buying Bitcoins on exchanges for one million. And it doesn't actually take the liquidity to be able to pump the price. But if you want everyone to be able to sell for that price, you need the volumes. And we need a lot of volume. We need a lot of adoption. I guess we can repeat the same talking points right now. Maybe Tony Hawk is listening and we'll pick them up and talk about it five years from now when we moved on. And we're more advanced, but he's preaching to the masses. I'm drunk. Well, a million would be quite good, but like you say, Vlad, it would be almost impossible for everyone to sell at that and at the right time. And once it hits a million, everyone would be saying, it's going to 1.2. It's going to 1.5. I'm not going to sell a million. I'm going to hold Victoria Jones. What do you think about the price possibilities of Bitcoin hitting a million by 2033? Yeah, well, my thought was the same, really. I mean, a lot depends on what the dollar will actually buy you at that point in time. So it's the same kind of argument. I mean, it's really unknown. What we're really looking for is how much more widely Bitcoin is in circulation. And basically, how much more will one Bitcoin buy you? And there's always been a great cartoon about that, which is at 1.1 Bitcoin would buy you. Not very much, maybe one kind of beans. And then, in a couple of years, it was a whole trolley full of shopping. And now 1 Bitcoin could buy you a decent car and in a future. Yeah, they like to put a couple of baskets of groceries and then put a car behind it. Exactly. And it works really well. Exactly. So that's what we're really looking for. We're really looking for it to be more widely circulated. And for the Bitcoin, you have to be able to buy more goods and services. And that's really the measure that we're looking for. So these numbers are a bit nonsense, really. And I think we get a bit fed up of hearing them. You know, what we really want is for people to be using it more often. And therefore, that's going to increase demand and Bitcoin will become more valuable. All right. Let's keep moving. Let's move on to issue six. Unfortunately, we have to cover this. Former President Trump is confirmed he's going to be at Bitcoin Nashville. He's going to speak on the, quote, future of the American Bitcoin industry at a crypto gathering this next month, unfortunately. We're all supporting him kind of blindly, regardless of his other positions, which may cost people their rights and their lives, the general freedom of the American democracy, and so forth. But he's really famous and he's on TV a lot. So now they'll talk about Bitcoin. So everything is fine. Ben Arck, what do you think about the Bitcoin Nashville Convention and Trump's speech? The potential. Yeah, I mean, I'm going to be there. Vlad's going to be there. And I'm very conflicted because, like we were saying, it's crazy this politician is talking about Bitcoin. That's incredible. And that they are impressions about this thing, which we want to promote. And we think we'll be a net positive for the world. Trump himself isn't my kind of guy, you know. But I imagine there's lots of Bitcoiners, American Bitcoiners who like Trump. And for him, it's an easy win. He just goes and talks. I mean, I don't know. Only people are going to the Nashville Conference, but many thousands, you know. So for him, you can just stop here and it's just like any other rally. Only might get some new recruits. In fact, I imagine there'll be ecstatic just the fact that there's a president-delect, whatever, talking about Bitcoin. But yeah, it's a very, very, very conflicted. The thing I'm most conflicted over is with Noster, I really think we're going to get, so originally on the internet, people gravitated towards forums and having interest-specific areas in which they could hang out with them, you know, so you're interested in Golden Trevers or, I don't know, or Doctor Who. You would have a forum and then, you know, you'd be obsessed by this one thing and you would go and hang out with all your friends in that forum. And then, the gravity of Twitter and Facebook and all these, like, big user networks pulled people out of those forums. And I think with Noster, we can have the best of both, so you can have a subject-specific themed client. Yeah, it can still tap into the network of users just within Noster. Anyway, they conflict, the way I'm conflicted is I think that you could probably easily on board Trump onto something like Noster if you just made, like, a Maga client. So just got a client, put American flags and Maga Shuttle over it, gave me a little area where you could, you know, them as the people who were running that client could have a banner with some- I just think that, you know, when he got chucked off Twitter, if Noster were a thing, I mean, if someone presented him with this client, then he would probably use it and all the truth social people would have gone there. So I'm very conflicted with you. You know, he made on paper $5 billion off of his truth social. Right, okay, well that's probably not the case. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Anyway, that's why I was conflicted. It's like this guy talking about Bitcoin, he says a lot of- But it's the same thing. Not to get into talk about Bitcoin, it's a lot of press, but yeah, he's not a good person. He's not my cup of tea, so, but yeah, it'll be a spectacle, an interesting conference, I'm sure. The polar opposite of blockchain, the Orca date is here. That's definitely a conference where you can talk to everyone versus a conference that's going to be very VIP and very controlled. And as we were saying on the last issue, while I've never met Tony Hawk, I did see John Sally at Bitcoin Miami, and he is very, very tall. So he's definitely an NBA player, he's legit. I think as Ben was saying, our only real hope on the Trump thing is that perhaps he communicates to his people the values of Bitcoin, and he's very interested of Bitcoin. And while they are a very following type of people, I'm not sure if even he could follow them to Bitcoin, if he could lead them that way, if that'd be successful. Of course, he's also said that he wants Bitcoin to be American and that he wants to mine 100% of it in America, which of course threatens censorship resistance and pretty much break everything Bitcoin's about. Of Lad, what do you think about the former president speaking of Americanized Bitcoin, which I'm sure we all want? So try to imagine this. It's going to be my first time in the US going to a Bitcoin conference, which I find out after I get my visa. So the next day after I get my visa, I find out that it's going to be a Trump rally in the last day. Now, I'm conflicted. I'm like, what did I sign up for? On one hand, it's super interesting. I'm excited for it. Just to see to be there to see what it's like, because a lot of people say, oh, it was such a religious experience. It was like the grateful dead, you know, going there and listening to Trump for two hours ran to that stuff. I was thinking about other religions. I wouldn't bring any long knives or yellow stars. What? World War II references. They can look it up. Anyway, it's hilarious. I think it's interesting for someone who goes to the US for the first time and ends up at a Trump rally. I just wish you could see any other president than that one. Let's go. Victoria Jones, what do you think about Trump? Confirmed speaking at the Bitcoin convention. So when does the conference start? It's 24th. Okay, so it's about a week away. And he's doing the rally at the end. You guys are alike. Right, okay. Well, the panel here, I'm not going to be going to Nashville or being forced to witness Trump. I mean, you know, I'm actually pretty apolitical actually. I mean, I just see the whole thing as a show and fairly entertaining because I know Bitcoin is going to disrupt all of it. You know, I'm just here to witness the show really and witness how it all plays out. And of course, Thomas is here recording it for prosperity. So I'm sure people will look back on this point in history and find it. Plus, you're a posterer. Both. You know, I'm sure people will be able to look back and analyze, you know, exactly how these things played out and how people witnessed it at the time. So yeah, I'll be watching it from the UK and wish you both luck. Like, most things, it would be better to experience from a long distance away. It's certainly going to be like one of those talking heads out. How did I get here, moments? No one had just stood there and looked at me. In the Trump rally, how did I get here? Am I Luis Aru? I'm not increasing it. I don't know. I'll be on the news. I'll be in the background behind Trump, for never and forever. We'll be like, I saw Ben at a Trump rally. On the other hand, we have to consider what this is going to mean for Bitcoin conference because we're here, right? We can talk to everyone. We can go everywhere. We can do whatever we want. But if Trump comes here, of course, there's going to be security. There's going to be restrictions. There's going to be a VIP area. Are there things that live in the air? There are not there and like and support, right? Of course. Another VIP area behind the VIP area. I don't know. A lot of security. Are there going to be registrations by the FBI? Are they going to take things? They have to keep them safe. They have to do whatever is necessary to protect the president. I'm sure the Secret Service as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's not very safe for Pong, right? I would wonder about heading into a room full of Bitcoiners. Is it like going to a punk rock convention or something? Can you trust all those punk rockers? I'm not so sure. I hope he's fine. I hope everything's fine. I don't want anything to happen to him. But it would be hilarious if Trump got on stage and not everyone because I'm pretty sure that not everyone is going to act in the same way. But a lot of people left. Well, remember, at the Libertarian convention, he did try to walk the room. At a certain point, he said, you only have 3%. What's wrong with you? Why don't you join me and get some power? You'll never get anywhere with your 3%, essentially mocking the Libertarians for the fact that their views are unpopular and they can't make a larger party. He did recover. He did return to his presumably prepared notes. But it was an unfortunate experience. That was the Rosalberg thing. He got like a five minute standing evasion of saying he's going to free Rosalberg. Of course. I mean, if you say what people want to hear, they generally clap. Which is what happened in Nashville. You'll say we want to hear it and have a climb. I'm afraid it will be that way. And I'm afraid a lot of bit corners. Unfortunately, my friend Jesse Powell, of course, David Bailey, have already donated millions of dollars to this campaign. And it's one thing to maybe support him or maybe have him speak, but to put millions of your own money behind someone who might cause so much damage in other areas. But make your little pet cause more legal. It's just a dangerous trade off. And I wonder in the future when there's graves and bodies everywhere. If you'll be like, well, you know, Bitcoin went up 10%. It was fine. It's tough to say. But I think we got through that with very few World War II references. So let's keep moving. We're at the end of the show. So let's go to predictions or story of the week. Vlad, you're here in Mayorka. Do you have a prediction or a story of the week? That's a good question. Maybe read Bitcoin, takeover magazine, tell the people where they can get it. Yeah, go to Bitcoin- No, is it Dash? Yeah, it's Dash. You better know your URL. Don't look at me. Dashtakeover.com. Slash. Magazine. And you're going to find all three of my magazines. And I'm making one about Litecoin, which I'm going to launch at the Litecoin Summit. They were nice enough to finance everything, which no Bitcoin or... I mean, no. I had sponsors for the Bitcoin ones, but the Bitcoiners didn't care as much. They were like, yeah, it's just another magazine. Fine. You can put it there on top of... Look, I'm reading the Bitcoin standard by SafedD. This is my new Bible. It's very smart. It presents arguments from history, which are modified and distorted to fit a narrative. And it says that there's this economist, you know, you shouldn't care too much about him. The entire world functions according to his ideas. But I'm telling you, he's very bad because he was a sexual deviant. And he liked young girls in a time when that was socially acceptable. That's right. Exactly. So, yeah, no matter how much I struggle, people are going to read SafedD. And then he's going to advise the president of El Salvador. It is unfortunate that people don't value your magazine. I think they confuse it with the fancy ones that are full of ads that are not a personal work, whereas your work is the work of an individual and your crew and your team. And I love that you work hard to make it and you put it out. It's good stuff. Well, it's fun. And my prediction is that I'm going to make a new one by the end of the year. And that's going to be called Bitcoin Year One. Inspired by the comic book, Batman Year One, which is a way to present the origins of something. It's not going to be like a comic book, but I do want to research a bit on the first users of Bitcoin Talk, the first developers who came to the project, the first transactions that were being made for real world objects or government money. I'm not going to call that real money. So, yeah, I hope I'm going to finish that one. It's been in my mind for a while, and I do want to get it out. It's just that I didn't have enough time, because apparently I'm making a magazine about Litecoin. Well, that's great, Vlad. And I hope everyone can check that out at Bitcoin-TakeOver.com. All right. Very cool. Bitcoin TakeOver magazine. Victoria Jones, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Yes. Well, my story of the week is we're here in Mallorca block chain days. A very small Bitcoin conference with people who've been in the space for many years, and we often enjoy catching up with each other annually. If you go back on the World Crypto Network, you'll see that we had a very similar show last year, where we were all here. And yeah, having a great time, I'm going to be doing my talk tomorrow, which is going to be about Bitcoin tulips, how they're similar, but not the same. And actually, the focus of the talk is going to be how we need to think about how Bitcoin is not just about replicating the gold standard, but also the impact that it has on the way in which our legal system constructs our money and how Bitcoin disrupts that as well. And so the lectures at Mallorca blockchain days are being livestreamed from their YouTube channel, Mallorca blockchain days. So if you're interested in watching that, then you can maybe check that out. All right. Let's go to Ben Arck for a prediction or a story of the week. I mean, it really is. This is incredible conference. It's like, it's very small. You know, it's under 100 people. And yesterday, who turns up at the bar, Roger Verne? It just turns up. You're not in prison. Why isn't he in prison? He just turns up at the bar and he's like, oh, hey guys. And then who turns up this evening? It may attack you. And then he's like, oh, do you want to go for a swim tomorrow in the morning? I'm thinking, it may. So it's such a white, and you got Graham. The guy invented a common breeze second name. The economist who invented quantitative easing is here. My Bitcoin is here. It's literally the craziest conference for such a small gathering of people. It's so like, I don't know, like, it's just, yeah, it's just a great group of Bitcoiners. And I'm sure I'll talk with you amazing by the way, I love your talk. So they're so well put together and so well organized. I'm always quite jealous of your delivery and need to take a leaf out of your book. So yes, it's a bit from Mallorca, phenomenal. Honestly, next year turn up and you'll get to swimming to see with the mayor. Hang out with Roger Fair. Yeah, it's good times. So that's the story. It's just that ready. The Mallorca conference. I definitely agree. I agree with the whole panel. It's great to be here in Mallorca. Thanks to Chris and Andre and Bastion and the rest of the people that work here, Mike and Lissa and everyone that works on the convention and makes us feel welcome here and all the free drinks and the free dinner and all the stuff that you get when you join a nice conference like this. So it is great. We'll have to see what happens with this whole Bitcoin conference in Nashville. I guess I'll be watching on the YouTube. Hopefully they'll livestream it. And we'll see what happens. Okay, a true Pins of E-Foot. We'll see you on. Yeah. Yeah, go get it, man. We'll put it up. You know, Time Magazine had that guy as a man of the year one time. So, you know, anything can happen. But, yeah, no, just thanks to everybody for watching the show. Sorry that we didn't do it at the correct time today. We're going to upload this video later. The internet here is not great. So I'm not sure if the upload is going to succeed when I try it. So it might be a multi-step process, which would slow us down. But if you made it this far in the show, give us a thumbs up. Maybe give us a wave or a surfing emoji in the chat or in the comments down below. We didn't have any comments last week, so we could use them this week. But thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for subscribing and supporting us all the time. Until next time, bye-bye!