The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Juan Galt from JuanGalt.com. Hello there. Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Happy Friday folks. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hey, hey, how you all doing? Ben Arck from LNBITS. Hello. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Bitcoin set for worst week in nearly a year on Mt. Gox, liquidation fears. The day we've all been waiting for is finally here. Everyone who left their coins on Mt. Gox is now getting paid back. Well, some of it. And they're expected to sell, sell, sell. The market is reacting appropriately and taking it easy. Bitcoin slides to two-month low as Fed signals. It's not ready to cut rates yet. A strong dollar and strong stocks continue to pound Bitcoin. The price of Bitcoin is $56,531. That's $1 for $1,769. Satoshi's. But don't worry, the price of Bitcoin is expected to rebound in 2024 and hit $150,000, $150,000, a coin. Juan Galt, what do you think about all the incredible excitement in the price of Bitcoin, which is down? Well, you guys have probably seen that video. It's kind of like a meme video and there's that. I think his name is Zong or something like that. This is to European guy who waited much for the tax and he's like, boom it, then zump it. And they're like trawling this sort of walljack that's trading. And at some point it's like, one of the prices going up enough is like, drop the Korean foot and then later on it's like drop it with the same exact Korean foot. It doesn't like five times with the exact same Korean foot. That's how I feel about this Mt. Gox. Mt. Gox's foot. It's just like how many times have they crashed a prize with the Mt. Gox, you know, they're going to sell right? And then it just doesn't happen. This might be the one where it does happen. It does seem like this one's for real. So I guess I'm just glad that we might actually get to the point where we're behind the Mt. Gox. Fud. We could they can, you know, take that out to the pasture, let it walk to the sunset. And they'll, you know, they can come up with some other new foot, but at least keep it interesting. You know, I agree. It's been on the list so long. Everyone knows the empty gox was going to pay people back. They were going to probably sell maybe some of them will hold no one considers that. And they might be happy with the 10,000 percent return, even though they don't get Bitcoin for Bitcoin on the return. Dan, what do you think about the market, the Mt. Gox and everything else? Yeah, you think it would be kind of priced in by now, but, but as the event is one point now, you know, it's kind of, it never kind of actually happens, right? It's they're going to move the coins. They're going to actually do something and it never actually happened. So we kind of keep on having these crescendos that ended up recovering from. So now, you know, we're actually seeing the Bitcoin finally moving. And so all those poor people that have lost a lot of Bitcoin for a long time, which is probably in a way quite a positive thing for them because, you know, let's face it. There's takes a lot of a lot of guts to hold Bitcoin for, you know, for 10 years through through thick and thin that we've seen these these highs and lows. So, yeah, I'll be I'll be interested to see how many of the gocs by the the the gocs. The creditors will actually get, you know, actually sell straight away. The wonderful they'll they'll produce stats on that. So I'm sure someone probably will, but I'll be, you know, let's face it. They're probably hold culture embedded in them so much now. They're not going to want to sell straight away. They're like cash in a little bit just to kind of, you know, recoup some of the fun that they could have had over the last few years. But I think we're all hotlers now, you know, we're all hotness. So I think the dump is a bit is a bit of a, you know, a bit of fun. They're probably hoping that Mt. Gox can reopen so they can read deposit their coins for another 10 years. It works so well the first time. And I remember all those skeptics that said Mt. Gox broke Bitcoin is broken. You can't just hold it. You lose it in a exchange. It all turned out fine. They got something back. Now they can sell and I've heard the real problem is Bitcoin cash. They think that people are going to sell their Bitcoin cash the minute they get it. So it could be disastrous for that market. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the Mt. Gox pay off and the general market malaise? Yeah, well, as I said last week, you know, all I'm waiting for now is for China to ban mining and, you know, we're on the Fud roll. So yeah, it's just par for the course, you know, our season Bitcoin has seen it all before and we roll our eyes and I mean the only thing I would say is that I think the market has been rather over hyped due to the ETFs. I think another factor that's probably making a difference is apparently the Ethereum ETFs they're planning on introducing those which make it some competition from investors who don't really know the difference or understand the difference. So there are lots of things going on and you know most technical traders will argue that actually it's not the news at all. The news tends to be an excuse for something that the markets destined to do anyway, you know, the technical say that it was rather overbought. And so a correction was in the offing so nothing to worry about, but we're still in the early days of Bitcoin and you know we're still in a roller coaster and this is what you get with the highs come the lows. Well, I follow Don all that duck that predicts charts and he said it was going to 52 they had all the various lines and they're like, yeah, if we break through the support here, we go to the support there. And when that happens, I don't worry that much. I figure hopefully we'll bounce at 52. These people know everything with their charts and their triangles will be just fine. Ben, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin currently 56,000 dollars or so? Yeah, I think it's it's fun. Like the these big saloths by the empty gots fund and then the US with the Silk Road fund in the Germans as well. Years ago, of course, so we just done the market and they wouldn't be aware of, you know, how the market would be impacted and they wouldn't care and they probably do it through spike to be honest. But nowadays, they are a little bit more sophisticated and they're going to want to maximize how much money they get for those coins and they're not just going to dump them as they are in the market. This is going to be a slow trickle and they'll get heavered up by the ETF says there is demand. There's plenty of money out there in this world. It's and there's a lack of places to actually put money funny enough for some of these big funds. So the ETFs are very promising to them. But we still get to reap the wards from all those impressions, which we've been getting recently from, you know, presidents and whoever else talking about Bitcoin. There's a propagation effect which happens when you have these people speaking about Bitcoin where we don't really get the impact of that until it's kind of delayed for a few months. It goes into the zeitgeist and the general there, popular and then people start thinking, oh, Bitcoin, they start buying or Bitcoin as well. It's just a little trip of fun on our way to the section for billion per book or calling, that's where we're inevitably heading. So yeah, I think doubling this year is of course very likely, but I think probably way beyond that to be honest, because it's the demands there. There's a huge demand and the coins which are putting to the ecosystem will mostly be done in a conservative way so they can maximize the amount of money they can make. And there's a huge amount of demand for people to who've got those coins. So it's all fun. It does feel like a predictable drop where we were just at 70,000 a couple days ago, your friends were like, oh, Bitcoin's too expensive. I'll never buy it. Now it's on sale and they're like, oh, it's falling forever. I'll never buy it, but it seems like it'll recover. And now predicting against the true Bitcoin magic eight ball, the source of all truth in these universe, one galt will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. Maybe higher. I'll go with higher. Dan Eve higher or lower or go with higher. Victoria Jones. Well, I appear to be on a road cause I did say low last week and I was right. So you know, I have to continue with my prediction. Continued negativity Ben R can we buck this trend? It's a springy bouncy ball, we just hit the deck and I was going to fly off and hit someone in the eye so higher. And now the only opinion that really matters the magic eight ball will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week when we're in mayorka? It says outlook not so good outlook not so good a pessimistic eight ball. Moving on to issue two, German government transfers additional $175 million in Bitcoin, including $75 million to crypto exchanges. Previously, the Germans sold off a great deal of Bitcoin. It looks like it's happening again. Meanwhile, the United States, the price of Bitcoin falls after the United States sends $240 million worth of Silk Road related Bitcoin to coin base presumably to dump on our already weak Bitcoin market. There's nothing like kickin Bitcoin when you're down. Dan Eve, what do you think about the US government and the German government both giving up their fantastic resources that they could use to build Smithsonian museums in L50 states and the Germans could maybe finish their refurbishment of the Pergamon Museum and other German museums faster if they could work around the clock using that valuable Bitcoin instead of just giving it up for worthless dollars and your rights. It just it just seems like history repeating where the US sold all that that's Bitcoin from the Silk Road for like what 40 million to Tim Draper and that's worth insane amounts now. And if they'd have just held on to it, you know, and we've you know it's not like there's been a great case study which is our Salvador about how they've turned their economy around using Bitcoin. So, you know, this amount of Bitcoin that the American is holding it and and the German government's holding is miniscuting compared to that their economy is really. So it's why not just hold a little bit just seems crazy to go but I do agree with Ben, I don't think I think that the fuzz there that they're just going to go and dump it on the markets, but they're going to want to get the you know more for the bank for their buck. So I think they'll do it strategically it's not just going to be a fat finger market sell. Victoria Jones the governments are selling off their precious Bitcoin once again. Well, governments are always going to be fickle when it comes to Bitcoin because you know Bitcoin completely disrupts their reason for being. They have absolutely no reason to be loyal to it. So it doesn't surprise me at all. Obviously they're not stupid though, you know, while they can get away with it and the population enjoys it, they will probably make the most of the fact that it's been on the high and especially if it appears to be going down, you know, they probably think now is the time to sell. But yeah, I don't expect any governments to be loyal to Bitcoin. I think El Salvador is probably the exception for the moment and they have a good reason being being loyal right now, but ultimately the way Bitcoin works will disrupt them too. So yeah, I'm not surprised. I didn't get to vote on this. It doesn't seem to be a major issue in the presidential campaign. The former president, the current president, no one's spoken on this. Ben Arck, why is the government giving up this perfectly good Smithsonian Museum money to lose money in the future? Yeah, it's a funny one isn't it? I mean, they're moving it into exchanges. Yeah, yeah, of course they are going to sell it and we'll move into exchanges if they won't get to sell it. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's not all that stash though, isn't it? They have like 50,000 or something and they just sell enough 3000 was all of it. I feel like they're just cashing out some of that. They sold some previously and this is presumably the second tranche. So maybe they are being kind of reasonable waiting a few months. But like Victoria said, they might see the price going down and figure this is a chance to get while they're going getting good. Yeah, I mean, I'm not worried because there's just a huge appetite for Bitcoin. So they could, you know, all just dump their coins on the market and it would suck for a little while then it bounced right back. But yeah, it's sure sighted, I guess. But for them, well, they have to be sort of physically responsible for whatever slim possibility. And we're all very confident the price will carry on going up forever until it gets 600 billion. But for them, you know, they are accountable to the people in their country and if Bitcoin price tanked, you know, which theoretically, I mean, has been in the past. I think it's very unlikely to do now. But if it did, then people might hold them account for that for not selling some of those coins when the price was high. So some as they keep some, they don't need that money. You know, the price is going to go so high that. Any country which has some reserves in Bitcoin will do quite well. But yeah, as long as they keep some, it needs to keep a little bit. Go ahead one more on this. No, I think this is just like, you know, somebody had put it perfectly. They said governments are the dumbest money in the market. They're the dumbest money. They're the weakest hands. They're going to be the last ones to buy. They're going to be buying our bags. And this is just another example of a sadly, how the German government is basically a vessel of the US, you know, the United States, right? Like if they had a little bit more sovereignty and more, you know, let's say vision, they would hold it, right? And they would hold it probably against the sort of Western, let's say establishment agenda, right? Probably the sort of the liberal, like if you look in the United States, right? You have like now the big composition is a partisan issue, right? You have the Democrats trying to do this anti-crypto thing that nobody cares about. There's no anti-crypto voters. And then you have like Republicans just jumping on the bandwagon of being like pro crypto pro Bitcoin. And, and you know, obviously what, you know, Germany is kind of a left leaning sort of Western government today. And they're just, they're just, you know, they're selling the Bitcoin today like they, you know, like they gave the gold to the United States after the wars, you know, and then they never got the gold back or they got some of them maybe like a hundred years later, you know. So this is just a terrible move. Germany is the dumb money. And I wonder how it's going to go in the elections because probably some politicians in the next Germany elections are going to be like, oh, you know, I would have kept the Bitcoin, you know. And so yeah, that's governments that don't money. It does seem really obvious that there's going to be one of those AI written articles. How much money did the United States government lose by selling that Bitcoin? How much money did the German government lose? And you can update it every year. And if the price is down, you know, they'll win. And a few years later, I think if we go long enough, five years, 10 years, people will keep writing these articles about the German government had how much Bitcoin and we gave it up for nothing. I mean, there's a possibility in the old days, we'd be like, oh, it's a conspiracy and they're selling at the same time and they're going to wreck the market. But I think we're way beyond that, as Ben said, we have the ETF demand, we have other demand, the family markets, the family accounts, all that kind of thing. We're all going to want this Bitcoin and it's the government's last chance to hold so many good ones. Yeah, well, a quick note on this too. CBTC, I think had like 350,000 Bitcoin, you know, of which 70% maybe has moved hands and moved over to Wall Street and the ETFs. So 50,000 Bitcoin from Germany, of which they're selling like truncers of a few thousand, it's not actually that much. Like it can be absorbed, you know, I think over the past few weeks, we've had like daily, like we've had daily purchases of like or weekly purchase of like a couple thousand Bitcoin, I can't remember exact stats, but this is like crazy amount of supply. There's definitely like a speculative reaction to the news, right? So like traders are getting out and then by getting out, they're liquidating other traders that didn't get out in time. So we have like this sort of short squeak like this long squeeze that's liquidating liquidating traders and then the miners are kind of panic selling to. But there's just like a lot of pent up fear in the market that's just getting flushed. Once like, you know, we get past that, they'll be like FOMO and we'll pump it in. I think we'll close this one out with a great quote from Conan O'Brien's Monorail Simpsons episode where he says, a town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel. He don't know how he got it and he don't know what it's for. Moving on, check out world crypto network at worldcryptonenetwork.com. We've really got to get some new shorts up here because I've looked at these every week for the last three weeks. We've got a couple new Bitcoin group episodes and a lot of old shorts and other episodes at worldcryptonenetwork.com. Issue three crypto ATM installations rise in 2024 adding 2500 and 64 new machines globally. The Bitcoin ATMs are spreading. And what do you guys think about Bitcoin ATMs and Bitcoin in general? Is it spreading? Is it reaching mass adoption? Will they have a chance to buy the dip this time? Victoria Jones? Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, clearly, you know, some people think that they're a great idea and they seem to be spreading. I think the article said that there was over 80% of them are in the United States though. In the UK, we used to have them here, but they're now banned. You know, one of our friends used to have one in his local shop and would tell us great stories about people coming in to sell their Bitcoin in the number. And they had to step in and stop them from feeding all their money into the machine because they'd been contacted by some scam artists that persuaded them that they weren't going to be able to pay their tax bill unless they paid a certain amount of Bitcoin. So he was able to step in on those occasions. But of course, you know, not everyone's like that. And you know, Bitcoin ATMs are an easy way for scam artists to fool people. So you do have to be careful, but yeah, pros and cons like everything in life. There are pros and cons. Then Ark, the Bitcoin ATM numbers are growing. What do you think about general Bitcoin adoption? General, I mean, so the thing which struck me about this article is our good friend of the show Martin. This shows him as a marketing genius when he first started working at General Bites. He employed amazing. This is amazing. I think this is one of the greatest examples of marketing I've ever heard of. He employed a competent photographer to take lots of really nice pictures of General Bites ATMs. People put using the General Bites ATMs, pretty women using the General Bites ATMs, you know, nice, sunny backgrounds. And then he just put them on those stock websites, those vector stock websites where you can get copyright free pictures. And now every single time there's an article about ATMs, people go to, you know, I stock photo or ever get images, they search Bitcoin ATMs. And there they are General Bites ATMs and he gets all this free advertising, which is a very recognizable ATM. And I just think it's an absolutely classic example of Martin as best, just really thinking outside the box. So that guy is an absolute genius. I love him. But yeah, ATMs demand this growing. I've seen it with the FOSSA, like the, we've actually been updating the FOSSA this week, which is our free and open source ATM, because we have a lot more than usual. A lot of people reaching out to us was saying they wanted to build FOSSAs and it needed a bit of TLC. We wanted to update it. We wanted to add some things to it, so adding a printer to the FOSSA. For some countries, I think we need to be able to print out a receipt with the QR code on. So even within our own project, we've seen demand for ATMs. People seem to want Bitcoin ATMs. I think there's a huge prosumer market in Bitcoin now, which is emerged from all these Bitcoiners suddenly being enriched by holding Bitcoin. Where they want to, they might have bars or cafes and they want to buy some Bitcoin gizmos and they're, you know, an ATM which they can stick in their bar or their shop or wherever else. It's a nice way to kind of contribute back and also like onboard people onto Bitcoin and give them a non-rampons Bitcoin. So I really think it's the demands from the newly enriched Bitcoiners from the price going up and they're buying those Bitcoin ATMs and setting up a little Bitcoin ATM businesses. Can I share a screen time with us? I want to show you something so freaking cool. Sure, go ahead. Okay, so with the FOSSA, so it's obviously a free no-passorce. So this is this is a way of trying to get around the fact that in the UK, you can't officially have an ATM. So the idea is you make a, an ATM you can build for like $200. And it was a lightning A.C.M. So you put coins and you put notes in and then you would get an LNR with your QR code and you can scan the LNR with your QR code and you would get sat since you're lightning while we're just cool. But you know, generally people are using Bitcoin ATMs. They want to use like on chain. So we figure something really, really cool out. You see if I'm sure this. Can you see my screen now? All right, so what we've got now with the FOSSA. So basically like with the FOSSA, you have the software side, which is an extension and a bit. Then you got the hardware, which is the, the stuff you build is just cheap electronics is a microcontroller screen coin acceptable accept. No, it has a print if you want to. Now this is no one's seen this. Yeah, and I think this is incredibly cool. But what we have. If I, if I click on here. So with LNR with straw, there's something called the fallback scheme. So in that QR code, which gets printed out. You can scan it with a lightning wallet. You'll just get the sat. If you open it with a normal QR code scanner. Then. Wait, can you see the URL there in the bar in the message in the in the URL bar that so that takes the LNR. And then it gives it the fallback, which is the the URL in front of it. So what it does is opens up this page. And on this page, you can scan this QR code to claim the sat. Or if you want, you can go to lightning and then you can put in your invoice or your LN address. So if you know, if you say if you're being zapped on. No, still means you could get your sat. So we're going to address. So then you're on pay. Now in LN bits, we have the bolts extension, which does automatic swaps from lightning to on shame. Lightning to liquid. Okay. So what we're doing is we're marrying the two things open as long as whoever's set the ATM has the bolts extension enabled. And when they come here, you get an on chain option and a liquid option. So you can put in an on chain address or liquid address. Now the ATM operator doesn't have to have a hot wallet for on chain or liquid, which usually they would if you're running an ATM and you're selling on a Bitcoin. What happens is when they put in the on chain dress, it does a trustless, atomic swap from lightning to on chain and they receive the on chain funds. But the ATM providers and have to have any on chain funds, same for liquid. So it means the little DIY ATM can spit out liquid on chain or or lightning as well. So that's the that's the thing we should be working on. So this is the page which you'll go to if you scan like you are, and just open up the thing on your phone and you have the options and get it in liquid or on chain. And I think it's so freaking cool because it's like you can build this thing for $200 and it's yeah. Anyway, but we've just I think totally we've seen demand in our own little free open source project and that's the first thing we've seen of the thing we've been working on this week. Ben, that's like a do it yourself ATM. Like there's hard to wear. Yeah, it's the the fast of the DIY ATM I could probably show you. Yeah, I would love to see what it looks like. I don't want to hijack too much of the show. It's not a show with it. But the let me have a look. So the the faucet itself I'll show you the recent update with. I'll wait a minute. I'll speak into it. Well, you find that I mean, I love the idea. I think, you know, one of the questions. I'll give my opinion of the ATM. So we're at it because like one of the issues I've had with ATMs throughout, I guess my experience in Bitcoin is they always have this ridiculous commissions, right. Like they're always like eight percent above or below, you know, and that's I'm too cheap to pay 8% to buy or sell Bitcoin, you know, like I'll find a way around it and let go. You know, into a meetup to find some P to P buyer, right. Like I much like I will work to save percentage points when I sell Bitcoin or buy Bitcoin. And I think that's that was a great great little video by the way. That's super cool. Yeah, I would love to maybe I'll try and build one and put one in Columbia because the idea of like, you know, if you're selling, you can go selling the exchange, you know, and like do full docs, right. When you're like basically selling it, right. Or maybe you set up an ATM in a shop somewhere like a mall or maybe I don't know some sort of business. Yeah, it's your said that down, but it seems like a good way to take profits and and probably preserve some of that privacy. Maybe I don't know. Very cool. Yeah, I mean, the idea of the idea of the fossil was that we wanted an ATM, which was so cheap, you could put at the end of the bar saying you can. And then if anyone ever rolls up and says who's ATM, you can't have Bitcoin ATM, so you just go, you know, and it's the ATM operates offline as well. So it doesn't need to be connected to the internet because it's an annual withdrawal which it generates. So it's completely offline. So yeah, like you can just have all complete the abilities and it was just turned up one day and I left it there. That sounds I love that idea. Cool. Well, it's great. It's great. It takes coins to then people can try out Bitcoin or lightning with a really small amount of money, especially in maybe a developing country having a smaller entry point on like that might be a good for people. You know what I think I saw some of those in Colombia already. That's the one that takes coins. Oh man, there's like there's a bunch of people to fought the for the fossil. Yeah, it's nice. And there's there's I went to prior BC prior, and there was like two for the faster that which is why we were like, yeah, we need to give this thing some CLC and also at the liquid non chain support, which is like. Yeah, you guys should add a stealth addresses to so that like you can't chase the on chain Bitcoin at all. Good idea. All right, let's go to Dan Eve. What do you think about all these Bitcoin ATMs? It certainly sounds encouraging like the groundwork with there was there and future people will be able to buy Bitcoin quite a lot easier. What do you think? Yeah, I was surprised it hasn't actually grown a lot faster to be honest, but when you look at the sort of two and a half thousand over 195 countries that works out as about 14 per country. So which is a reasonable amount in a year to be growing and obviously obviously some countries are tiny and probably not really going to get their own actual ATM for a long while. So it's an average. I think that's actually too bad. But I still would have expected more. Maybe that's because of the impactors. Victoria mentioned about the UK where they were banned a few years back. And so maybe that's made ATM operators a bit more hesitant in rolling out in certain new jurisdictions, especially kind of westernized ones that love red tape and bureaucracy. And that's side of things. But people see that growing a lot more as as yes, more countries adopts Bitcoin globally ends as more companies come out disclosing it on their balance sheet. All right, let's keep this one moving and I agree with Ben shout out to Martin for his great marketing for general bites ATM friend of the show always helping us out. Issue four as Bitcoin belly flops to 54,000 only five mining rigs remain profitable says F2 pool. Miners need to continuously sell Bitcoin rewards to keep operations afloat and they are stressed during a market downturn. I kind of like this headline a little better than the miners have lots of Bitcoin and are sitting on their haunches doing nothing. Let's go to Ben arc. What do you think about the miners and the possibility that Bitcoin mining might not be profitable anymore? Yeah, I mean, this reminded me of the topic we had a couple of weeks ago, which was that the Bitcoin miners. Their reserves that Bitcoin reserves were small and they had been or had ever had been or something because mining have become so profitable because of the price pump. So there's all these miners who suddenly become unprofitable having to pay for all their energy bills and they haven't got those Bitcoin in the coffers like they had before. Because they they're low load and we're like, yeah, Bitcoin's going up. We're just sell all the Bitcoin we have and rely on the fact that it's going up forever. I think this steps going to be very short lived. So I'm sure they will be okay. And a lot of them would just they pivot. They always pivot to money. She coins anyway. So, but yeah, it's a do you feel sorry for them because it's it must be rocky for them without that Bitcoin in the like the story we covered a couple of weeks ago. And they haven't got Bitcoin in the reserves, or it's like the low was the lowest in like five years or something the amount of Bitcoin miners had in reserves. It's all about your approach to time on a long enough timeline your mining company will make money if you have a short term mining company you might be in trouble. What do you think about the potential squeeze on Bitcoin mining. It's good. I mean, you know, we probably need some liquidations with you need to. There's a lot of issues with Bitcoin mining right now that I think are coming from a industry that's become kind of too comfortable doing their thing and not caring about the asset itself. You know, we one of the biggest stories that came out in the past few months was that. Thanks to some on chain analysis, you know, somebody figured out that most of the mining pools that are kind of intermediaries between like the people that are have the rigs or hashing, you know, providing the hashing power to Bitcoin. The mining pools are using a handful templates that like everybody's like most of the mining pools are using the same templates created by an pool. And what that led to us is kind of realization that ample is basically cash flowing these mining pools in order to prevent them from going bankrupt because they're all on this weird pricing model for hashers where they denominate the basically rent hashing power in dollar terms and pay out in Satoshi's but what that what that means is that sometimes the volatility of the rewards means that the mining pool doesn't actually have the treasure is so good. And actually have the treasure is to meet those demand to meet those those bills and so they need somebody to lend them money please like ample is lending them money and so there's just like this mess right and I think we need some we need some liquidations we need some. Flushing of the of the mining ecosystem and we need kind of a recon solidation probably of that also miners need to start paying attention I think we need to bring this this kind of issue up them be like listen if you if the mining pools or the big miners need. You know like like the mining pools that have lots of hashing power probably if they if they need you know some sort of Bitcoin bank to cash some commercial bank to cash flow there their liquidity right we need to set something up that's a side from an pool because and pool is basically bid main and you know I mean this is too much centralization i'm happy to see some some some shuffling in that that's how the industry. It is possible there are other players out there like intel or maybe the new lead giant AI chip maker and Vita who could get into Bitcoin mining and cause some competition so maybe a dip like this and a dip in the minor profitability leads to them investing at this low. Dan Eve what do you think about the miners suddenly they're not profitable anymore they're just heating your house. Well I suppose that what they get is that you've provided a secondary function for it right so even if it's not profitable is providing a function but they they provide the rate of. This five five only five miners being profitable the rate of eight cents per kilowatt hour so those miners might not be profitable in in an area where it's eight cents per kilowatt hour more than that but they will be profitable in an area where the electricity is a lot cheaper so that mining. Mining power may not be lost forever it may just you know just take a while changing hands until it goes to a much cheaper area. For where it can come back online and still provide you know security to the network and compete with the other miners but just so much cheaper costs because of the cheap electricity rates probably by what we're hearing about the renewables so that's pretty you know pretty a pretty good thing that the miners will circulate they'll just move to wherever the electricity is. Where ever the electricity becomes cheaper and they'll just shift around until that happens but i'm definitely an agreement with one that the mining centralization is it's a topic that's frequently comes up and it does concern a number of people so be interested to see that addressed a bit more in detail you know over the next years or so. It is worth noting if you have free power your mining is always profitable free power Victoria Jones what do you think about the Bitcoin mining situation. Yeah it is really tricky I mean it's like a lot of businesses that kind of become overconfident there you're just setting yourself up for the stage where you have a reckoning so again I think the price rise we've had in Bitcoin in the last six months is very unusual for this time in Bitcoin's price cycle and I think there's one said earlier you know if they're if the miners have kind of become complacent about that and believe that Bitcoin is going up forever. And already dipped into their reserves and they're just asking for trouble and this is a cycle that plays out throughout history especially given the way in which our fiat currency system is set up at the moment and what it means is that those on who understand how the system is played. Can be great winners when things are going in their favor but are also great losers when things go go against them and I don't think you know even Bitcoin miners necessarily have the sophistication to understand that and especially as Bitcoin's a new asset there's a danger that they could. They could take that for granted you know Bitcoin is a new asset I think the ETF also brings. You know great interest from the traditional financial system but they're also this but also great power which works on the upside but also on the downside as well and that could leave the miners vulnerable if they're not careful. All right we're running out of time let's go to predictions or story of the week one goal do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead well I will go with a story of the I would say story of the year I'm a big fan of. Stealth addresses and silent payments i'm going to just keep shilling that I think you know with the whole samurai situation samurai devs which were a bit comprised of wallet getting shut down you know various kind of sketchy situation we don't really know what happened with their main lead developer you know they don't like me I don't like them but I you know I got to defend them and I got and I got to like. Talk about this sort of question of privacy we've had a reaction from from the community and we've had a bit merged into the the bit repo called stealth addresses or actually it's called silent payments but it's kind of like a revival of something called stealth addresses and what it was is this brilliant technology. That lets you create one address and reuse it all you want you don't have to like you know go and find a new public address because people just that's just too much to ask of people people are used to they're very comfortable with like account account numbers so you just get like a stealth like a one Bitcoin account number and you give that to people and they can send you all the Bitcoin you want they want from all different sources all the different people can send to you and it's it hides where that money's going like it doesn't really it doesn't really. You don't really create an on chain footprint very easily it sort of masks the on chain behavior right and I think that's very good for for ease of use it's very good for Bitcoin privacy and I think we need more wallets to implement it in cake wallet just implemented the day I think blue wallet just added it and I hope to see a lot more wallets integrated so we can kind of level up that part of Bitcoin as well that's kind of needed some some love for a long time. That sounds like a great new feature left to check that out soon Dan Eve prediction or story the week go ahead prediction is the I think I know how soon it is actually but I'll be a me or could block some days like next Friday so we'll be a I'm assuming we'll be doing the show from there right that'll be pretty cool. But yeah that was I predict I will be there along with some of the WC and crew which will be awesome to see you guys there of course as you. That's an excellent prediction Dan be orca very safe very safe prediction the me or could block chain conference there Victoria Jones prediction or story of the week go ahead. Yes I'm also going to be in New Yorker with Dan and Thomas and possibly I think Benny you're going to be there as well this year and yeah so we're all going to be there next week so yeah that's my story of the week I think. That sounds great looking forward to it's going to be a great time and Ben arc also going to me orca prediction or story the week go ahead yeah it's going to be it's going to be great everyone there. As I said before it's it's a great event and anyone who's you know can make it should go because it's one of the one of the best events I would say the year. And just I mean is still a handful of tickets available if you're in the me orca area and remember if you want to help out a small conference like this they often just barely break even on these conferences is not like the big giant ones with the sponsors and everything so if you want to go. 240 euros or if you want to go on the boat trip and get the free food and all the other stuff they have a 680 euro pass that I definitely suggest it's really great fun we go on the boat trip and as we said before all the speakers are there if you want to talk to the speaker ask them a question they'll be there it's not like the other conferences with like the VIP area and they fence themselves off or whatever but yeah I definitely suggest it so go ahead Ben. Yeah that's really is what's that sorry really what sets it apart is that there's that culture of just sharing ideas and hanging out and I would say that that higher ticket price might look like a lot but you get a lot for your money they do feed you and yeah it's it's it's a great event it's a great event really want to look forward to on the way to that I'm going to be. I'm going to be oh I was working I don't know I was going to talk about something else which can't remember the name or so I won't do that but yeah just be working hard this week on the on the ATM thing and then also we're going to be doing a little bit more in us calm. There's a lot of stuff so we've been grinding on that but looking forward to just all hanging out and chatting again getting a bit of time away from the laptop and then after we all could this Nashville which is going to be the next one it's like a week after or something and that's going to be. I'm going to be a real closer shock because you've got the the quiet one you know with all your mates and then you've got the big corporate one with double trump so let's see how that goes. It should be a really interesting change for you Ben hanging by the pool with your friends having a sandwich seeing the former president speak and talk about whatever he wants should be great but yeah just like. I'm sorry so it makes sense orange orange my good representative for Bitcoin in that way of yeah we're getting ready for the eighth mad bitcoins tour shout out to finip for the graphics you can see the magic eight ball there in the graphics and like everyone said we're going to mayorka block chain days. I hope to see you there it's a nice small conventions kind of German Hawaii there's probably a flight near you I'm getting a flight from like London or something there's lots of flights. Well everyone no one knows where it is everyone's like where are you going this little island in the middle of the nowhere what's wrong with you but yeah it's it's because it's you know the Germans go there and it's Hawaii so look how pretty it is all this in mayorka palm trees inside of a conference room more of the inside of a conference room more of the inside of a conference room but there's also a pool and other things so check out the mayorka blockchain convention. And be sure to give us a thumbs up down below leave us a comment say hello in the chat if you made it to the end here send us a wave or surfing icon if you made it to the very end of the show but yeah check out next week we're probably going to record it live maybe upload it later depending on internet speeds. We might be a little earlier time the weeks after that as I'm going to be traveling in Europe so that might make it easier but we'll keep you updated on the Twitter page and here on the YouTube page and everywhere else so thanks so much for joining us until next time bye bye.