The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Adam Meister, the Bitcoin Meister. Hi, Thomas. I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one, Fed triggers a huge Bitcoin price pump as BlackRock quietly launches five trillion dollars by 2030 game changer that could boost Ethereum, XRP and crypto. The price of Bitcoin rocketed 5% after the Federal Reserve said that they were not going to raise rates, they're going to leave interest rates on hold, which means they will likely lower rates in the future. Remember lowering rates means that stocks and other risk assets like Bitcoin go up. The price of Bitcoin is currently $63,828. That's $1 for $1,567 Satoshi's. Adam Meister, what do you think about the Fed's announcement and the price of Bitcoin which recovered from a recent downtrend? A recent downtrend from the all time high, baby. It's amazing when you put it in perspective like that. All right, so the Fed announced it specifically. Yeah, all the normies just man, they are created for the Fed to say, are int that the rates are lower. Does that mean they can quote, go blow their money on? You see, they're still a little scared. They're still a little scared of Bitcoin because they don't have approval of the powers to be, powers me to spend their money yet. They need to borrow even more money yet. They need that reassurance and I think it's going to, when they actually lower rates and I believe they're going lower the rates, it's going to be great. So I can see why people want for Bitcoin's price because of the norm. Why, why, who cares how much it is the borrow money? I mean, so I mean, it's just how many entities in the Western world just survive totally on borrow money that they can't, they're paralyzed unless they can borrow at a specific rate. But I don't care about them lowering rates. I do think they are going to do it for a number of reasons and it will be good for Bitcoin. So anytime they hinted it, I mean, playing these tea leaves of the Fed, it just discussed me. But anytime they hinted it, of course, it'll trigger something good, but then they'll buy the rumor than the Southern news. So yeah, for the long term thinker, the rates are going to go down again. Also for the long term thinker, we're not even past the having yet and we had an all-time high. So if it goes down again to like 50,000, don't be disappointed. I mean, come on now. 50,000 a few months ago would have been great, everything. So yeah, that's my usual take on the Fed. I mean, I mean, something that can't be denied from all of this is that the macro environment and Bitcoin is still correlated with stock and tech type investments. And a lot of people don't want to admit that, but techs are going to go crazy again when they lower the rates and say, I mean, Bitcoin will follow. And maybe some, oh, maybe it's the techs that are following Bitcoin. Who cares? They're similar in that way. But we've had times in the past when gold and Bitcoin were totally correlated. We will pay us eventually, but for the first few, for the future yet, they're going to lower the rates. Bitcoin will go up when they lower the rates. And rumors of lowering the rates will also make Bitcoin cheaper. It is how amazing how many things are affected by these rates. I know here in Las Vegas, I've been looking to the real estate recently and the realtor told me that because the interest rates are high now, people don't want to refund and they don't want to buy new homes. They want to stick with their old loan that has the low interest rate. So it is fascinating at a large scale like this giant Fed makes its decision and that trickles all the way down even to local real estate. But it's interesting how many people are always ready to tell you that you were wrong about the Bitcoin price. How many people have called the top and for especially myself and Adam Meister here, we've seen this so many times where as hard as it is and we all have to sell to live, we all sell to buy things. The price of Bitcoin always seems to go higher. There always seems to be a new top. It's always the best investment of 2020, the best investment of 2016. It's the same thing keeps happening again and again. There's a couple of bad years in there. But most years, it's like, yeah, if you had Bitcoin and you held it. So as it hard as it is during these drops, I'm not Mr. Finance. I don't know the market much like that famous HODL message that I put out on Bitcoin talk. So yeah, I just hold on to what I got. And if it ends to this end of it, I have the same amount. Didn't make more, didn't make less. I've got the same. And like Adam was saying, it's been an all time high once again. It can be an all time high again. I always think it is that price. What do you think Adam good? Yeah, I wanted to say one of my famous things. Bitcoin always returns through its all time high. Just remember that. So with the all time high now, it's 73,000. It'll be back there. I'm still, you know, it gets a huge smile on my face. I can't believe it. It happened before the having. I mean, clearly, you know, everybody hates the, some of the hardcore people say they hate the ETFs and the banks and all this. It's clearly because of that. We got to this all time high. So early, I mean, that, that's the reason right there. Now, what I eat in your commentary also, you said something about the $5 trillion black rock. What was that exact thing there? Well, so far we know that they've put $100 million aside to put into an Ethereum ETF. And in general, they just believe that the market of crypto itself is going to expand. I think that's the five trillion by 2030, the crypto market in general, I would guess. It's funny. Everybody loves this huge gigantic numbers. You hear those huge gigantic numbers. You know, you're in the bull market. The people say it's going to be a big. Now, $5 trillion from the whole crypto market actually is not that big. It's set by 2030. It's not that big. It should be there by 2030. That's a normal number. But people just hear $5 trillion right now. They go crazy. If you're turned from the entire crypto market, $5 trillion, it definitely should be there by 2030. Definitely, definitely. But so, you know, black rock is being logical. And soon we'll talk about the black rock ETF. But black rock Ethereum ETF, that's for labor in this show. Now on to. We're also joined by Josh Shagalla all the way from Australia. How's it going, Josh? What do you think about the Federal Reserve? They're keeping rates the same. This caused the price of Bitcoin and other so-called risk on assets to rise as it's believe people will start investing again. Yeah, it's actually funny that because it's meant for the other thing. It's meant for inflation. It's meant as a hedge of inflation. So, you know, like, this is how sort of a rational market can get actually because what it means is that, oh, we cannot have more inflation. We've got to, like, keep rates the same. You know, for those that don't know, rates is basically the price of money. And the cheaper it is, the more inflation you get, the more expensive it is, the less yet, eventually. And Bitcoin was like, they're just going to print themselves out of any problems. Wall Street is going to bail themselves out again, hence the bail out for the banks comment by Satoshi. And yeah, it seems the other way around if we get more inflation. So once they start dropping rates, people will be like, yes, more inflation. We can pump it into Bitcoin. And it's a strange world. But we, I think to your point, 5 trillion, I think what's gold market cap, 15 trillion, something like that. 10, something like that. Yeah, 10, 13. So, you know, there's definitely some breathing room up there. But I find it extraordinary that trillion is a normal number these days. I find like trillion. There's not even, when I was in school, I was taught that there's not a trillion stars. I was taught there's something about something billion billion stars. Like Carl, Carl, say again, say billions and billions. So he covered himself there. Yeah, yeah, he covered himself. It's such a trillion is such an extraordinary number. Most people cannot grasp it. I think I've said it before on the show, but I think it was, it's something like a million seconds is 11 days, a billion seconds is 32 years. And a trillion seconds is 32,000 years. So we've gone from 11 days from being a million to 32,000 years being a trillion. And you're like, that's how many seconds. Most people can't grasp these large numbers. And I think it's kind of demented that we as a society are talking about such big numbers. I don't know. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe it's a bad thing. Maybe we're such a rich society. Maybe we can all have caviar in the winter because we're such a rich society. We can go down to the local supermarket and pick out some fish eggs as a normal person. And remember, as strange as this is, this inflation is packed into the Kenzian idea and the Kenzian model. I remember growing up in the 80s and 90s, things cost a certain amount. And now you look at it, everything costs more. Nothing makes sense. And that's only 20, 30 years. If you go back to the 50s or the 60s, we're talking, you know, 55 cent hamburger is 10 cent coaks, these kind of things. But this is built in, right? This is supposed to keep happening, which again, Josh, I think why we should remind people, obviously we've all been here a long time looking at this Bitcoin thing. Every time the banks or the rich or whoever they are, take their million dollars and they buy Bitcoin, they get less Bitcoin. Whether it's because of the halving or because of the price acceleration or because of the market or the hotlers or whatever it is, but you can't just keep getting more Bitcoin, whereas with stocks and other things in the past, they split, they split, you get more of that kind of things, other kind of currencies, they print more Bitcoin being locked means that it's more likely that you could buy a hamburger for a million dollars some way someday, but you probably won't buy a hamburger for one Bitcoin. It's probably not going to go that direction, just look at the basic numbers. If I add something real quick, we're talking about large numbers and everything. Let me tell you about a small number. If you have 16 Bitcoin, you're a million in terms of dollars. That's another number. It's the trillions and trillions that get people go, Google live and go crazy. Oh, man, this is the simplest 16, dude. Have you heard of how long the 60-bit card is so long? I don't have it anymore, but there is a time where I think BT Cijam was paying people 10 Bitcoin coins a month for their jobs. It was a reasonable middle-class San Francisco type job. Even the tech support people I think could have gotten tens of Bitcoin's. But again, people had rent. They had things to pay for. They had stuff like that. Now it's time for you guys to earn your money and to predict against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the source of all truth and knowledge in this universe. Adam Meister, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I always say higher. So higher, baby, take me higher. Josh Shagalla, all positivity on the panel, higher or lower? Let's roll higher. Yeah, no, probably higher or slightly sideways. Yeah, let's go. This week I won't forget. I'm shaking it right away, even though shaking it can cause bubbles. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It is certain. It is certain. The ball has spoken. Moving on to issue two. Issue two, how I became a cult member and how I got out. A new post by Ryan X Charles talks about his descent into madness, believing that Craig Wright was Satoshi Nakamoto, following Craig Wright to Bitcoin Cash, where he unfortunately sold many of his early old Bitcoins, and then following Craig Wright again to Satoshi he's visioned the third Bitcoin that we had recently. Charles has turned it around, admitted he was fooled, written a large post, started posting videos, started kind of taking on the BSV community of which he used to be a part. Let's go to Josh Shagalla first. What do you think about Ryan X Charles turning it around and the cult of fake Satoshi? It's a really, really sad and tough story for me personally because I've got people very close to me also falling for that stuff. It's so unfortunate because you'd have arguments for years with people. It's one of these things that it's really, really, really difficult to get out of a cult or a way of thinking in any way. The name of it is cognitive dissonance when it becomes extremely painful to admit that you were wrong. To Ryan, it's to publicly come out and admit you were wrong. Same with the other guy that he was like, to IC there at N Chain, he came earlier before the court case and said, this is all scam. It's tricky because Craig is one of these stories. Bitcoin is so extraordinary because there's such amazing stories that we all travel through. Some highlights in the history are the original, the Dow. There was money trapped and you had a month to get it out because it's in a different contract and people fighting and then you've got silk road and Ross Olbrecht case and then you have one coin and you have not that that was crypto but it was part of the story there somehow. This Craig Wright thing is I think one of the most craziest stories in the whole thing because you have a guy so audacious as to go to the courts and sue people and build patents around. This is a thing that really scared me was his patents and this is why I took the court case a lot more serious than a lot of people and talked about it publicly too because if he had of one that court case and I think even now even if he hasn't won there is stuff at play in terms of N Chain's patents. It's formidable. They have like a thousand patents on all sorts of stuff from how our cold storage works to NFTs and this can get quite scary if you're at exchange or something like that and you thought you were building on an open source technology where you could use the technology and all of a sudden you hit with massive licensing fees. It can really destroy you. Of course at the end of the day Bitcoin doesn't care. Bitcoin will just keep on being because there's 21 million of them. It doesn't matter. But there's a lot there's some wacky stuff there. So I was like, oh this is really fascinating this thing and Craig going through this and what was really weird about the whole thing and why it was one of the most fascinating stories I find is that there was a likelihood. It was a non-zero chance that he could have been because he was he was there early. He did have conversations with some early people. He did. There was possibilities and so everyone was like, but why wouldn't he just sign the thing? Why wouldn't he just sign it and he kept on doing all these excuses and then I first it was a bonded career then I stood on the hard drive and then I like all these weird contortions to try to like get out of just signing the thing and as I and one of the major excuses was, well I don't want anyone to know how much Bitcoin I've got. You're claiming you're Satoshi dude. Everyone knows how many Bitcoin Satoshi has pretty much like kind of around about the number. What is your problem? Just sign it's not proof. I want to prove that having a private key is not proof of identity. Yeah no shit it's not proof of identity but it's definitely very good evidence. It's extraordinarily good evidence. In fact, it would weigh the entire case very strongly in your favor to the point of where you could probably win if you signed the Frick and Private key. He didn't. He couldn't because he's not Satoshi but yeah back to the point of Ryan. I always really, and I'm sorry this is a bit of a long talk from my side but I always really liked Ryan. I liked his work in the early days. I thought he was always an intelligence guy. He did some great work and so it's good to see that he has the A, the co-huners to admit when he was wrong which is publicly which is really, really hard because people lost a lot of money through this whole thing. The people invested their entire career and switched, you know, switched careers to work on this and maybe it's a good thing. Maybe the technology allowed them to think about like oh big blocks could work maybe they, I don't know who knows but the fact is the fact is he's out now and he can get on with this life which is which is really great. Welcome back, Ryan, X-Charles, well done. Well and Josh, you were also early to Bitcoin, made videos about it, wrote about it, talked to people about it, therefore you could be Satoshi. Yeah, I do put some double spaces in sometimes accidentally. Well and it is interesting they've updated that meme where it's pretty embarrassing for maybe Josh and I and other old Bitcoiners where it's like oh you've been in Bitcoin since 2020. You must be so rich and I think the Ryan X-Charles story here is a good example of that where he was super early. He had lots of Bitcoin but he got confused by fake Satoshi, went to Satoshi's vision, many other people go to altcoins, they go to whatever their favorite thing is, they buy that, it fails and then I also want to highlight from Ryan's story that he met Craig in person. So there's a big thing about personal connections and meeting people and in his mind he was meeting Satoshi. He was like meeting a beetle, he was beating a living god, I mean he was meeting was or jobs or gates or one of these hugely influential computer people especially as he spent his life working on similar projects. So I think we have to let him off a little bit on that, welcome him back, he's doing good work now. But I think Adam Meister has more of a dark memory of the battles that we had. I remember Ryan X-Charles made a kind of a tipping software or something like that and then for a while it was B-Cache only and then BSV only and other things like that. So let's go to Adam Meister for more on Ryan X-Charles finally leaving the cult of fake Satoshi. Well that's the thing that led him to this path. He had a business called Yours, right? He was called Yours and it relied on cheap transactions and Bitcoin was getting more and more expensive. So he became a B-Cacheer at first. But I just want to put that out there. Ryan has very high IQ. There's no doubt about it. He has very high IQ. He's a smart man and yet he fell for this complete nonsense joke. And I give him all the credit in the world. You know for saying it is a cult, it is a cult. The way Fetoshi runs it is like a cult. Say the more outlandish things you say, the more they believe you. I mean just keep going and just excuse after excuse after excuse after excuse and just being bold and confident, loud and strong. It's very authoritarian and even a very high IQ person fell for it. And you know there's a lot of other tricks to the trade. I mean I don't know how to run a dark cult but a psychopath does. Clearly. And he lowered it and Ryan. And I people are saying welcome back Ryan. Okay. I mean I'm not going to say I'm not saying welcome back for a number of reasons. And one of them again is that you know I give him all just just to say that it's a cult to finally understand like welcome back to Mornelit. Welcome back that you are no longer if you would say it's a cult then you're not in the cult anymore. That's a great awesome step and an example. And I think it is waking up some people if you see in the car. And he by the way he said he lost a lot of money. A lot if he would have kept all his Bitcoin he doesn't know how much he would have. But I mean he was alluding to hundreds of Bitcoin. He Ryan would have now hundreds of Bitcoin. Maybe even a thousand. I mean Ryan was in it but it's his 2011 I think or something and saying very very very he got and the only reason he doesn't have the Bitcoin is that well there's there's I mean it's his fault because he started believing in the bee cash thing. But then you know he just totally jumped on the BSB train. But he's got a tweet out there Ryan that right now some of the chat notified of this. I'm building a new blockchain based on the writings of Satoshi Nakamoto. Okay so I mean there you go he can't leave well enough alone he's not back in Bitcoin. He's gonna he's gonna build his own thing. Fine build your own guarantee but that's why I don't want to say welcome back Ryan but I am he should he should be praised immensely for just speaking out against this cult and that is what it is but and so you see in some of the comments under his comment people are saying I'm welcome back I'm glad you're back finally you know it's great to have a loud voice on this but then there's some people they're just keep on making up more excuses more excuses for fake toasty it won't end there are some people that just they can't you know they live they live I carelessly through other people I guess and it is a lesson all of us can learn in the in the space okay this is the first time people become tribal around money all right people didn't go you know get the arguments about what's better the euro or the US dollar or Australian dollar there weren't vicious things about this is like hardcore tribes that wish like death almost and regulation against the so-called enemy the other so I get there can be figures that arise within the Bitcoin space itself that create their own cults within Bitcoin so just be be careful don't get into the Bitcoin acquisition don't you know keep keep an open mind don't it's not a zero some game you don't have to destroy everything you know you don't have to worship a a prominent leader and you can lose your mind if you're a freaking genius this Ryan is a smart I don't know if he's a high IQ guy he lost his ration I would read things back in 2020 I just couldn't believe it he would like saying again and again Kregus Satoshi Kregus Satoshi Kregus Satoshi I mean it was like I can't say this on YouTube but they used to during the third you know in Germany when they put their hands up and say hell you know I mean it was it was unbelievable seven of them still that's kind of like a the money guy behind Kreg what's his name Calvin he says the same Kregus Satoshi Kregus Satoshi it's a mindless chant of worship and loyalty that you do in a dangerous cult now how dangerous is this economically it is dangerous for the people who participated it that get rid of all their Bitcoin for this nonsense now again Ryan had a business where he needed cheap transactions so he was led down this it came natural to be a becash person but he chose bsv over becash he chose and that was a very dangerous there but he made him insane it brought into this level so I get there are this is a new level of cultism that we've never experienced on this planet when people get tribal behind money we've not experienced and you know there's a you know money is very important and so you can see how if you mix up with tribalism you can go down some freaking nasty roads and they're well just because some smart people and there's that other smart guy who's a dork who likes a bsv who has the component as his uh his uh whatever on his I don't forget what his name is he used to be a big big coin or two who's he he's a he's a little chunky guy who's got black hair what's that guy's name Thomas uh what was his name do you know I'm talking about he's still having fam I don't know I don't know who's the guy with the hair no here he is um Daniel Kravitz oh yeah down great which yeah he does the uh he actually coined the um what are they like um big total bit coinization or what is it called hyper bit coinization well you know he actually coined that phrase yeah there was a time when he was a bitcoin but he and he's a very smart guy he's not socially a very normal I don't think but that's a different thing but I mean he he he's still pumping bsv so there's a lot of people that still got to get get uh get out of the cold there's still a lot of people making excuses but some and then some of these uses are a little bit nuanced now they're like well he might he's a jerk you know he's just a jerk uh uh uh just fake toasty and so what's so we and he lied sometimes and he did did did there some people that are kind of like get they don't want to admit totally that they were wrong, but they still haven't fully come around. But the more the merrier they come out on this, so that it doesn't happen again. I do want to say that money does kind of a does attract cultism in terms of and viciousness. If you look at a lot, some of the big wars could be put down to the fact that America didn't want oil settlement in some other currencies. So Gaddafi, who's saying who wanted a gold standard for oil settlement, you know, it can cause it in the traditional sense as well, where it becomes very nice in, you start sending soldiers. But you know, obviously people could that's debatable, whereas this isn't debatable. This is in the regular individuals, regular individuals are taking it very, very personally, you know, if Ethereum does well. I mean, the big point of Ethereum could both do well. I mean, I don't know if there are people who actually want the other. I mean, I've heard people say Ethereum is the biggest scam in the history of mankind. And then it should do. I mean, this is insane. That's cultism. That's crazy cultism. Yeah, it is. On the same with B Cash and BSV, it's not that we wanted them to fail. It's just we stopped talking about them and moved on to the next issue. We didn't really worry about them. And it was up to them to promote themselves and make their software work and things like this. Exactly. And I've said this before to other people. And Adam, you put this really well. You know, a lot of us have run businesses. I've run multiple businesses in this space. And they were very, very hurt because they were launched early when Bitcoin transactions were very cheap. And when the blocks filled up, the promise that we'd had of banking the unbanked and laughing at moneygram and memes about moneygrams, fees and stuff, all of a sudden became a kind of embarrassing because we'll pay more fees on Aaron. Then, you know, we were pissed off because as people that didn't fully grasp the nature of the blockchain that it's cheap all the way. It's still cheap. It's still cheap. It's still cheap. It's expensive now. Really expensive. And then, so because it's cheap once it fills up, it's not and it can be cheap really close to the edge as well. And so look, to Thomas's point as well, I don't mind people were like, I like the fact that people work on big blocks. We don't know what's best. Like, I honestly, I feel at my heart that layer two, layer three, these sorts of ideas are best. If I work through it logically, for me, that is the best way to scale. But hey, if there's a whole army of people working on that and a whole army of people working on big block technology, hey, maybe that is the way to scale. Maybe they'll crack the nut just like Satoshi, crack the nut of rare digital assets, all of a sudden. Maybe they will turn it around and find some cryptographic way of making big blocks work fantastically. I don't know. So it's if we want to beat central banking and fractional reserve system and the fractional reserve system, we need people working on all sorts of stuff and let the free market decide and figure out, hey, wow, look, they've made it work. But don't go around pretending you're someone you're not to try to attract money to your project. That's what I find so offensive about Craig Wright and Satoshi. Craig Wright uses the ultimate in force. He's suing everybody to intimidate them. That definitely should be commented on. But I think big coin people have done a very good job of ignoring BSV. There's a lot of big coin people that are obsessed with Ethereum. But there was dough. The reason we would keep here on BSV is because these cult members were coming to our chats and everything. I just, you know, Craig Satoshi, Craig, I mean, just post nonsense, after nonsense, it's just trolling and stuff. But they they weren't exactly trolling. They were they really believed it. The type of thing. So it is it is a weird little corner of the space, the BSV thing. And it just won't die. And he just keeps milking me and milking. And I said the long-term goal of Fectoshi must be to get some type of, I don't know why he doesn't try to pull it right now because his people are so loyal to him to just get the BSV Satoshi coins given over to him. Just he takes control of the 1.5 million BSV coins. And that's worth a lot of money. What's BSV worth? Like 50. But I mean, and indeed, if that actually happened, I mean, because it is, it could be, you know, they could do anything they want to. It could be centralized and everything like that. They wanted to be changed how it all works. Do a hard fork to make it so that Craig gets all those Satoshi BSVs. Some people will celebrate it way. But it'll be work quite a lot of money to for that to have. So I assume that's part of the long-term goal here. But he's just psychopathic too. He likes attention. But I mean, this is the greatest BSV store I've ever heard now that right that one of the biggest cult members left. And I think that so much positive and so many lessons can be learned from it that are going to be very productive. And just another interesting aspect of it, yeah, in 2017, people were very disciplined. I mean, Roger there was the first one to take advantage of the that people were angry that the fees were so high. And I mean, Roger really believed in it hardcore that he did what he did. So it is almost a natural inclination of some of the people who went that route to follow a strong leader. Because Roger was a strong leader. But Roger wasn't, I mean, it's there's no comparison comparing Roger and this dude and fake coaching. It's just, it's fine to believe in bigger blocks. It's fine. If you believe in bigger blocks, build the technology, do it. We're all technologists. We're all we all love experimenting with technology. But don't go around pretending you're someone you're not, you know, and and having an affinity scam is really what it's all about here. You know, if Roger and Roger teated on the affinity scam, Roger, what he tried to do was say, we are the real Bitcoin and and you're not. So and that I didn't like that because he was tricking new people into buying that Bitcoin cash instead of saying we are an alternative that has got cheaper fees and where where a fork and admitting technically to all that instead, it was also like that. But also, you know, I wish Roger's B.S.V. B.S. B.C.H. all the luck as well and and success. I don't care. What I care about is people not being scammed with an affinity scam of thinking they're investing in something when they're not really investing in that. It was really low and it could have been a technical disaster as people could have withdrawn Bitcoin thinking it was Bitcoin and really it was B.C.H.H.H. and the way it used the same address structure and all that was pretty awful. But I agree with Adam. I think that fake Satoshi wants the fake Satoshi coins from B.S.V. and I'm surprised he didn't just take them when they forked off. It seems obvious that he forgot his key or a dog ate it or there was a boating accident and we all know Bitcoin just gives you your money back if you lost it. That's the kind of system it is that Satoshi created. So of course Satoshi would expect that from the system that he created. I think that's about it for this topic. I'm going to say I met Ryan X Charles a couple of times at Perse. He was friends with my friend JJ and seemed like a cool guy. Again, before the whole B.S.V. and B.C.H.H.H. and all of that happened. We were all happy Bitcoiners, even Vitalik back in the day. But moving on to an unhappy Bitcoiner, issue three. SPF says that the proposed 50-year sentence casts him as a depraved super villain. Croshing Sam in this way is unnecessary. Said lawyers for the former FTX CEO. Meanwhile, Ross Ulbrich, aka the dread pirate Roberts, was sentenced to life in prison in a federal court. Adam Meister, what do you think about SPF saying that his sentence is too long? All he did was lie, misuse company funds allegedly and destroy people's retirements, make them lose all of their money, not just some but all. I think some? Well, I still haven't met anyone that lost money. I'm still very curious about this situation. Who are the people who lost money? And I've been in this big. And last time I was on your show in October, I said the same thing. I said, I don't know anybody who lost money over there. I don't know anybody who ever used that exchange. Don't know a person. I know a lot of people. And so I theorized that he ripped off some very, very wealthy people. That he made some deals with them. But they're not even speaking. Tom Brady had some deals with him with advertising and everything like that. And it was a time for somebody to think. I said, I want to hear some real victim impact statements here. I'm sure the court will want to hear them and just see how people hurt, how much money did people get back? How much did they really lose? Because you've heard all this. In terms of the art, I think people are going to be, what they put in, they're going to get back now. What they put in in big point are they going to get back? I don't think they are. But so we're talking about 50, they want to put them in 50 years. Obviously, to set an example, I would assume. It probably is, yeah, that sounds like it sounds like a lot for that dude. He should go to jail for what he did. But I'd like some more clarification on exactly what happened to the victim, who the victims are, when exactly happened, specific victims and why I don't know anyone who ever used that exchange. I know a lot of the trading one that was fake, probably like 190%. I don't know. I mean, one can only imagine here. I'm not making it up. He did a very bad thing. He took customers, you're supposed to take customers, funds and then use them to fund your pet projects and stuff. Whatever the heck he was doing. That is a crime. He should be punished here. But did everybody end up getting their money back? Who was it? Little ladies or was it Tom Brady? Tom Brady had another aggr- an advertising deal that was part of the agreement that he got ripped off on. There's a lot that- I mean, I'm not the interest in the story person. But there's a lot more they can come out. I think a lot of people just like to say, oh, look, it's crypto. This is what happens. Another crypto criminal. Well, let's get into like what exactly happened? What exactly happened? I think that that would be better for all involved. So I- at this point I think 50 years seems like a lot. It is interesting out on the different market segments that people are in. Remember the one coin scam? I never knew anyone that was into one coin, but they spread it through this multi-level marketing technique and they had seminars and they attracted people. I don't get rich, quick people, investment, seminar people, those kinds of people. And again, I didn't know one of them, but it was a huge scam. So in the same way, I don't know these FTX people, but I can assume they're probably low information people, not Bitcoin people watching this show or reading about Bitcoin every day or that kind of thing. So they get the low information that FTX is a good place. And the marketing really made it look like a bank. They were always using the banker blue like this background here and they always had really strong advertisements. But I want to take a minute and remind everyone and stand up for an advertisement. Fortune favors the bold. Everyone had such a great time dunking on Matt Damon, how stupid he was. He was in this super bowl commercial with the spaceships and the rocket ships and the South Park guys who I love, but they get things wrong every once in a while, even made all of these crypto influencers like Tom Brady and Kenneth Paltrow and Larry David, they made them drink their own pee because their investment advice was so bad. But now two years later, the price of Bitcoin's back, everything's fine. Their investment advice actually turns out to be solid. If you can invest for the long term, if you need to get rich tomorrow, no amount of investment advice from Tom Brady or Matt Damon or anybody else is going to save you. But let's go to Josh Schagalla. What do you think about Sam? He wants a lighter sentence. All he did was ruin a bunch of people's lives. All he did to us was take away the block folio app. But still, that's pretty bad. That was the worst part for me. Yeah, Adam, after your last appearance, I did actually think a lot about that statement. And then I talked to a bunch of people and I did actually meet some people over, especially over in Asia, that lost because what happened was the Singapore government has this retirement fund from everybody. And even that fund invested in FTX because these large VC funds invested. So everyone in Singapore kind of lost a little bit. The scale, but yeah, you're right. It wasn't really small time retail investors that many of it. Probably there are mixed in there as well. I don't know any, but the thing is with the sentence of Sam, what I noticed, and I do agree with the article on this, is that there is this sort of lynch mobbing mentality around Sam as this super villain. And I agree, I like he's a it is absolutely atrocious what he did. I'm not excusing any of it. But there were other people involved. Why aren't they in prison? Why isn't his girlfriend? Why did she get off? Because she, you know, and why didn't why didn't the other guy get off? Like it was just all this focus on Sam. And this is typical human behavior. There's something that humans seem to do a lot. They like, they like to when something bad happens, focus on the one person and not all of the other people that actually helped out in the situation. And to be fair, he did benefit from this on the way up. On the way up, he was the lone genius. And he was a weirdo and he had weird hair and he dressed casual and he had a Honda Accord or whatever it was. So he benefited from this appearance. But then now this other appearance where he's lost control of his hair, he's lost control of his outfit, he's being forced to wear a suit in many court situations and so forth. The lone genius thing doesn't work out on the way down. I do agree, Josh. We do this to everybody. I think in the Steve Jobs movie, I think Jobs felt the same way. Like I have made Apple computer for you, but I didn't make enough money for you lately. So you're mad at me stock market and so forth. Yeah, when really it's a whole team of same with Elon Musk. Elon gets all this praise and everything. But which, you know, he's a very nice man. He knows how to employ the right people. But man, he's got a team of absolute excellence around him. And that's what builds this thing just as in the inverse. Sam has a team of absolute nuisance and and and yeah, oh, part of that again. Part of that's part of the plan where you have to be the wild uncontrolled kids taking that kidney medicine or whatever it was so they could stay up late and trade more and whatever they were doing with the swaps and the leverage and all those things. And they were smarter than everyone else. So part of that was the the lack of grownups, the lack of control. And then when the minute they crack it open, the the guy who did the Enron cases doing charge of it, he's like, there's no financial controls. There's no systems. There's no organization. There's there's no company here. And that again, that was these the kids in control. Adam Devin from this. They were using Excel spreadsheets for their finances. It was hilarious. The other people got off because they snitched on. I mean, they made deals with the government. His girlfriend got off, but she snitched on it. I mean, that's that's no. And so, I mean, I mean, says she's not she's not worried about any repercussions. So he can't be that bad. It's your in Baltimore when you snitch on someone, you know, what happened. Anyway, but you know, he did a bad thing. It's just but she did a bad thing. She was deep in it also, but the way the government works is that they want that one scapegoat, the one easy and easy guy to hate. I mean, well, in this day and age, at least he's the easy guy. And I that's what I hate scapegoat. I just I just hate it when you know, everybody says it's never as simple as that one person is the pro is the is the sole reason for all my problems. And that's the same as the scapegoat of the month here right now. I mean, people are blaming it for everything. And it's I mean, they're piling on. So, I mean, we're one surprise if the judge just does give it and gives it gives it 50 years, but again, you know, I'm not a decorator. So I don't know everything. And also if he's ripping off people in other countries, I mean, does the United States have jurisdiction over the entire world is another question. I mean, the court case should be about what he did to American citizens and everything like. And the financial crimes, the financial crimes he committed in and but but the way the United States finance works is that no, we would the United States thinks it does control the finances of the entire world and is up in everybody's financial business. It's one of the reasons dollars they so strong. I mean, you got to hand it to them. He said it helps us in some ways, but it's kind of a it's quite dictatorial in another way. But that's going off and they'll turn to. Yeah, I just agree with Josh that other people helped in this, Tiffany air, not Tiffany, but sorry, the girlfriend, the other guy, Mr. Fong, other kinds people, but the real people who helped and the real people who aren't going to get punished legally. And I'm not even really suggesting that, but we should be punishing them with our minds are these people who didn't do the due diligence. There are some companies with smarter richer people than us, more experience, all those things. And at some point, one of them didn't do the due diligence. And they just said, this looks fine. And then a bunch of the other ones, and I'm not name and names. I don't even know the names. They all said, this is fine too. And they waited in with their millions and billions. Like you say, the Singapore people's money that teachers fund, all these other kind of funds. They don't know what they're doing, but they follow these people and these people said it was okay without doing their due diligence. And that's what I think we should expose. We should say, oh, here's the whole Sequoia didn't do their due diligence. So and so follow them allegedly and so forth, whatever. But if we could just get it back to the where did we lose the spaceship? And I think we lost this spaceship when they didn't go to Sam and say, hey, do you have a company structure? Do you have an HR person? How do you approve deals? Disappearing emojis in shadowy chat rooms? Any kind of cursory analysis that you think would have led to an understanding of what kind of business it was. So when we say, mill, he stole millions of dollars, that's what I want to know. Did he steal it? Most from these big gigantic organizations that refuse to do their due diligence and threw him a lot of money because it was making them a lot of money. Well, I mean, they're part of the problem. You put it real well here. I mean, this was he was running a scam indeed, but it could have been identified so early and so many big names just piled into it without like looking for his accounting. I mean, let's see the numbers, dude. I don't think anyone did that. We should really kind of scary on a certain level. I mean, I remember some of these companies are magical. They don't make money. They don't plan to make money. They don't have his strategy to make money. And yet, you know, they're packing in the amazing t-shirts and the really cool merch and they just seem to have an endless supply of money. Let's go back to Josh. Yeah, more on this. Yeah, well, similar to similar to Craig Wright, it's this sort of authority, this authority investing thing where you're investing in an authority. So I think that Sequoia capital should have been held over the calls for this because they were the mainly that allegedly, I think, the lead investor in FTX. So when Sequoia invests, you don't even do your due diligence. If you're another VC, you're like, what Sequoia's in? I'm into. I'm into. Yep. How much are we going to put in? What's the return? Okay, here. How much did Sequoia put in? And you just follow. And this is what Sam played at is that whether he did on purpose or not, I think the game was like getting rich off of this kid who's this genius philanthropist who's well connected to. And so, yeah, like Sequoia, why haven't they been taken a court about this? Because because they didn't do their due diligence, there was this cascade of other large institutions, rabbit finance, are like, oh, like so many. And what happened there? Why didn't anybody else take Sequoia to case about this? Yeah, I think it's a really important question. And I think in the future, people have to realize that VCs are the dumb money. They're not the smart money. They are the dumb money. And they follow it just like why Bitcoin businesses can't get, can't get financed in the bear market because it's the dumb money. And the dumb money doesn't want to invest in things in the future. They want to jump on the hype train just like retail. And so, and that's what they did. They jumped on the hype train. What's the quiz in? I mean, and yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a miracle that any of these startups work at all. I've also heard like Joshua saying of VCs who just wait to be like the 10th investor. And there's already nine investors in and all the big names are there. And they show up at the end with the last 100k or whatever the icing on the cake. They never take any real risks. And even then, if you look at this or you look at other startups, pet dot the pets dot com other disasters, they don't really know what they're doing. And oftentimes they're fooled by a great presentation. And you too could be fooled by a great presentation at worldcryptoneatwork.com where we've got thousands of videos all for free. Our first video is 10 years, three months, 11 days ago. And you could watch it for three months, 18 days, and 15 hours straight without taking a break. That's a really long time. Moving on to issue four, the SEC is waging an energetic legal campaign to classify Ethereum as a security. Meanwhile, BlackRock aims to launch a tokenized investing fund seeking the SEC nod for the build ol token or the build ol fund on Ethereum. And they're saying that BlackRock's head of digital assets says for our clients Bitcoin is overwhelmingly the number one priority. So the SEC wants Ethereum and BlackRock wants it as well. Adam Leister, what do you think about the SEC and BlackRock and the possibility of an Ethereum ETF? I just love how like the first comment under that Ethereum tweet and everyone gets second comment. You can see it from yourself that some Bitcoin guy just saying Ethereum is, I'm not going to say the word, estard is a, you know, he's a little, like a little, a little child there. Look, the Bitcoin therapist, that's his intelligent reply. I mean, it's embarrassing. And that's what we get. I mean, that, I mean, who you should be happy with Bitcoin net? You should be good. Why? Do regimes change in the United States? Okay. Maybe this SEC will act. I don't think the ETFs can improve this time. I think there will be an Ethereum ETF. I mean, these gigantic corporations are not, you know, applying to it because they don't think it's not possible one day. It's possible. And I don't exactly believe that there is a big move within the government to classify Ethereum as something different than Bitcoin as a security visit. I mean, then it wouldn't really leave Bitcoin as an only possible cryptocurrency that could be an ETF. And I don't think they're going to do that. And I just, I mean, people should, people get joined from Ethereum not having an ETF. I mean, I feel bad for these people. I don't, I don't, I don't get joy from it. I don't see what, why are you stifling financial transactions and stuff? It's a totally, you know, it's just ironic that some Bitcoin people, like that guy just said, calling it a turd, so intelligent, are saying, want the government to regulate? Or yes, security, yes, yes, government, please, please say it's a security. I mean, then what did, and you're in Bitcoin, dude. I mean, Bitcoin is like the original money that's not controlled by any government. Yeah, yours want any possible competitors to be killed by the government. And this should not be celebrated if it actually happens because let the best, let the best coin win, let the best one win, we should, I'm a confident decentralized. I'm totally confident in Bitcoin and let a, you know, it doesn't have to be the center of the world that dictates what the other current cryptocurrencies do or that you must get into Bitcoin. And these self-aeritarian, it's so centralized that at center, these Bitcoin's errors have these centralized government-friendly attitudes towards certain things. And it's just, you know, has some principles, dudes, has some principles. So, you know, maybe the theory of ETF will be slowed down, maybe the current, you know, SEC version doesn't like that. They'll be future ones. And since the theory is centralized and has a charismatic leader, they'll be able to bribe the correct people eventually to allow the SEC will grant them an ETF. They will be the second coin to get an ETF. I don't, it will happen eventually. Well, and remember a lot of people, it's not that they don't like the monarchy. They just want to be king. Yeah. And we have to watch out for that. But I see it as well as Adam with, we need to treat these banks like the newcomers, like the infants and the children that they are and welcome them to Bitcoin and as a larger world crypto. And we all know what happens when you get into Bitcoin and say, wow, that one Bitcoin's mighty expensive. I don't know how I'm ever going to get that many Satoshi's, but I can get two wobble coins and I could get four wibbly coins and 13 jazel coins. And everyone goes through an alt coin phase. And I think it's unfair of us to assume that the banks who are into money kind of obsessed with it really. They don't really think about anything else or society or anything else. And you say somebody made money on an alt coin. His buddy got a Ferrari. And obviously, I think the banks are going to be into it. They're going to want to do ETFs and investment vehicles and leverage. And it doesn't matter if it has as much of a monetary backing as dose coin. They'll write papers and they'll invent experts and they'll go on CNBC and they'll tell you how great it is. And then I don't know about the end of the the dose coin or the meme coin ETF. But Josh, you got all the what do you think? Ethereum ETF SEC versus BlackRock. Again, what what a thing for crypto currency, even if you don't like Ethereum to have friends like BlackRock in your corner, a massive gigantic companies and incredible analysts who again all missed it all missed it. If you want to hire someone smart hire someone on the show. If you want to hire an analyst that missed it, go to BlackRock, go to these big firms. They all missed it again and again and again. And I'm not saying I had perfect confidence. I mean, I think myster's the confidence leader here. But in general, our investment thesis Bitcoin is good has been solid from day one and made people money and lost money and not perfect, not Ryan X Charles, Josh, what do you think about the Ethereum ETF? Go ahead. I talk too much. No, I know. It's true. I think it's fascinating that we'll have these battles between the SEC and big coiners and big coiners. Adam, you're spot on this whole calling for the person, the crushing by the state's boot of something like Ethereum. And Jack E in the chat mentioned as well, that there are no smart contracts on Bitcoin as broad as something on Ethereum. I couldn't build the standard on Bitcoin. I would love to. But at the same time, I don't want to destroy. I don't want to upgrade Bitcoin because it just works because if Bitcoin fails, everything fails. We see it on the charts as soon as Bitcoin bleeds, everything bleeds. And so I wouldn't, you know, I like the fact that the crypto space is decentralized in the fact that there's a lot of competition. The cats out of the bag. You cannot just, if we just had single Bitcoin and everything else was illegal, that would be terrible. It would be absolutely terrible from an old cypher punk viewpoint. You want competition. Competition keeps the bastards honest. Having competition is important. In terms of the ETF, I think it would be very scary for a very much actually to have an ETF because they are proof of stake. And it would mean that BlackRock would have a vast majority stake. If you think of people holding it as mining pools, BlackRock's mining pool would be absolutely extraordinary. And they would have a vast amount of sway in the direction of the coin. And so, you know, I don't know whether that's a good thing or not. I don't think it is. I think, you know, you fundamentally want as many people as possible having your token because that is as decentralized as it can get. When you have a proof of stake system, as you want as many people as possible holding the coin, you want as much distribution. And I think this has always been my thing against proof of stake. Is that generally, you can be like, for instance, you can have to take all the money in the world and be some sort of like extreme socialist freak who divvies it out perfectly, evenly amongst everybody in the world. And I can guarantee you that within six months and probably less, the same people that are super wealthy now have a way more than everybody else because they just understand or even have a will to want to collect money and pull it. And that's the same with, you know, you I know people that are surfers, they don't want money. They're not interested in it. They just want enough to have some fruit to eat and then go surfing all day. They don't care about it. And there's people that are obsessed. They want more of it. And this is the problem with proof of stake. It builds towards these people large reserves. And they have more sway. Now that's fine if there's enough of those people because that's still decentralized. But if you get something like BlackRock, that collects a vast amount. I think it could yeah, it could be a dangerous part of the game. So yeah, that's just my point of view. But yeah, they'll get an ETF. They'll get an ETF. I think you're right, Josh. I think we have to appreciate and understand the attitude of these conquerors because they've conquered before, right? If you look at every new technology radio printing presses where democratizing medium anyone could have a radio station, anyone could have a pamphlet. Someone would read it. The early internet blogs and web pages were democratizing anyone could have a web page. And you could have a blog. Now it's all medium. It's all Facebook or Twitter. It's talk down control. But they're it's curious to see if it's going to turn out for them in Bitcoin in this decentralized tech the same way that it's turned out in every centralized tech, right? Centralized tech you move in you monopolize it you make it easier to do Facebook than to do your own blog easier to do Twitter more benefits and advantages. But with Bitcoin can they build a coin that has better advantages that has more control or as I predict Bitcoin will be more like torrents a technology that's kind of pushed underground and acknowledged as being a great technology. But not something you'd want to use you wouldn't want to use those dirty torrents to download your windows updates or your Linux updates and then in the background it's all running torrents. It's all running things like that because they've they've burned their bridges. There's no way back and the horses inside the walls. So be interesting to see how much they commit to Bitcoin and how much they continue to fight caught one of those nets. Moving on to issue five. This is a long article way too long. Honduras ratchets up battle with crypto libertarian investors and rejects the world bank court. This is a very interesting article very interesting situation as the article from the intercept says the fight presents an almost impossible to believe scenario. A group of libertarian investors teamed up with a former Honduran government which was tied at the hip to Narco traffickers and came to power after a US backed military coup in order to implement the world's most radical libertarian policy which turned over significance of the portions of the countries to these investors through so-called special economic zones. The Honduran public in a backlash ousted the Narco backed regime and the new government repealed the libertarian legislation. The crypto investors and again these are the anti-government libertarian crypto investors are now using the world bank to force Honduras to honor the government policies they had under the Narco government the special engagement zone. So that was a lot to explain but just a very interesting position for so-called crypto libertarian investors who are now friends with the world bank. Adam Meister what do you think about the mess in Honduras and did you ever think that governments and so forth would be fighting with crypto libertarian investors again. We don't know who these investors are we don't know them personally and so forth but it is a fascinating idea that they're obviously being identified by their political police. Adam what do you think? Did I ever think that governments the last central American governments would be fighting with crypto libertarians so-called crypto libertarian investors? Not only did I think that I've been predicting it for a while in El Salvador because one day that dictator won't be the dictator there anymore and the policy toward Bitcoin will be totally different maybe the next dictator will be for the people we must take on the property of the people that invested in our country that ruined us with Bitcoin we must take on that property right now. Why not? That will happen and we will make an example of this guy named Max. I supported the dictator even though I was supposed to be a libertarian. I support dictators that I ran too. Oh my god you can't do this to me because I do. People need to understand in these countries it might seem like a freaking dream right now okay. There are some shady shady dudes up there from the west and from that are native there and they might make it seem like your libertarian playground for now but things change real quick look up some history. Look up just Google Central American Coons okay. So of course an unstable country like Honduras is going to- if the government changes they're not going to care about free economic zones anymore so then you look like a complete hypocrite when you say the government owes me now because and I'm going to you know this other government should use its power over the old government and give me what what's my- dude it was Toby a risk on your part you got into it because you thought there were any no governments involved at all in your little zone and you need to understand like if any of these I don't know there's a country on earth that would really really really permit a free a truly free libertarian economic zone. You might as well just stick with the current freest countries in the world to run your businesses instead of going with the flavor of the month because it's just like that I've seen many all-coming flavor of the month come and go go and now I'm seeing many you know supposedly libertarian friendly uh Central American countries flavor of the month come and go and don't want else out of the world if you're- what happened to my volcano bonds what happened to my volcano power the government told me that it's I mean the same thing there eventually I mean people put these people in pedestals and I just think it's sickening how the whole El Salvador thing has become a cult in Bitcoin and this should this should be this should be a lesson this should be a Bitcoin doesn't need a country okay it doesn't it doesn't need a big uh loudmouth brash uh talker who used to work for Iranian state TV named Max Geiser you know he did he did you could go pee he doesn't talk about he doesn't talk about his Max clue or anything like this but um wait wait at least in this Honduras situation there there weren't uh there's no prominent uh uh you know barker screaming how great it was going to be there it didn't really hit our radars in the same way this whole El Salvador thing is but it's it's a lesson to learn these very unstable countries don't it I mean if you're principles and you know governmentless money money that doesn't have a government they don't like rely on governments okay it's interesting it's a lot like when they created coin base and all of these other structures where everyone said we don't need a bank we don't need a Bitcoin bank we don't need a Bitcoin country uh these are anachronisms they don't fit together properly and then with the El Salvador thing everyone just lost their minds over essentially this dictator who overthrew the Supreme Court with violence threatens of violence and uh we've all predicted we'll likely take the money when he leaves but uh like Adam was saying I was reminded of course how kids don't watch movies these days and they probably haven't even seen the godfather one let alone the godfather two in which the exact scenario that we're talking about happens they're in Cuba and one minute it's a glorious party and the American capitalist and mobsters basically as well who are aligned together are chinking champagne and it's so great and the next one boom the revolution start Castro there Michael disappears other people are stuck in Cuba they don't have the power that they had 10 minutes ago and it can happen that fast and that's what's been so amazing about the United States for the last 200 years and I hope that it continues is that we do have this peaceful transfer of power where power is exchanged through a democratic medium which gives you more more stability for your contracts because that's the core problem here like Adam was saying these libertarians had contracts with the previous government and when the new government came in they did not honor the old contracts which I've always said about all this blockchain land distribution and we're going to put the bills on the blockchain and we'll prove that we own it we obviously know the major world disaster situation where people are fighting over thousands of year land and you owned it thousands years ago on the bible chain and I was on the the Torah chain and the other chain and again these chains don't matter when the new dictator says such and such and such or the new person building a settlement or whatever it is so yes and we do get negative common sense for being negative about El Salvador I always I want to respond I try not to but which dictator worked out for the people long term just let me know I'll wait stall and Mao you know other ones which one worked out for the people long term and I wish the best for the people of El Salvador but I just don't think it works long term let's go to Josh Shavalla Joshagala what do you think about the crypto libertarians and it might be crypto as like a mystery like a mystery if they really are libertarians or perhaps all kings turn out this way and power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely well you know I've actually got friends in working on this battery freedman is a friend of mine he's the grandson of Milton and it's pronomous capital who who set up or who helped fund this pronoun they're backed by Peter Thiel so there's some big names in this project and you know originally it was from sea setting batteries things always been sea setting and building start-up cities to try different different capital structures to try different economic structures in different places and sea setting seemed like the only way because every country's take every bit of lands taken and then they some libertarians have tried to say hey there's this little piece of land like libert libert libert land it's like a little bit of like land that no one wants so we're going to just stake it and take it I find I find it really a fascinating venture to build start-up cities and I really like the idea but yeah that's a big part of the business plan is is hey what happens when the government goes against the contract because that's the only way to get land is to to have a special I don't know Roger Ver was also in talks with different countries some other more developing countries to say hey allow us to have this land and I know that one of the one of the major things though so I don't know if this article is very very trustworthy because I know my intel inside is that they were allowed to do anything on this economic in this economic zone but they weren't allowed to produce or export or any sort of drugs so from this special economic zone that was there only caveat to that you're allowed to do everything else so I think that was that was sort of fascinating and yeah I'm not sure what's going to happen but I really like the idea of start-up cities I like the idea of hey there's we've now got competing economics I just don't like when countries have like hey we're going to try communism and we're going to put everyone in prison if they don't like it hey this is what I don't like yeah it's fine to try out communism or socialism in your little area of the woods if it goes well hey you're fantastic well done and if you voluntarily went there to enjoy this system that they're building good on you and but yeah it was a very fascinating system prosperer I would still like to check it out sometime if it's still around I don't like the use of force to make it happen but I like but you know to enforce a contract is important if you've made a contract hey you know they're going to go and find a strong arm can I can I add something here yeah see standing wouldn't be the way to go I think it's the lesson learned from this don't rely on as I've heard of Mr. Freeman before and I thought he was I didn't know he was in this I mean I heard about the sea-stepping thing and I think that's cool I think that it's cool is anything and there no one can renegole me I mean you got to just build your own thing in the middle of the oak I mean it's hard that's really really hard that's why you it would be tempting just to get some land desert land somewhere or whatever but I so you know they maybe that's a that's a takeaway that these libertarians should you know obviously in the article they did try to associate it with drugs and everything I don't you know who knows what anybody's associated with I don't like they could have just stated that the unemotional facts and everything like that you know when when a government changes you're going to get screwed but and and but here is a comment from the chat here this is a new level of disgusting that compare Bukheli to Mal a new low for world crypto network actually it is not disgusting to compare Bukheli to Mal let me tell you there's a guy named Alejandro Alejandro and I had a show about this on my channel where Benjamin Diktor was on my show to look it up he's got all the information that's going on in El Salvador Alejandro was at like the number two guy Bukheli and there was a disagreement and Bukheli had the guy well all the sudden Alejandro ends up beaten today beaten you should see the picture of his swollen head in the phrase disgusting and he got very little coverage and no big winners talking we're only big winners talking about it so you know comparing him to Mal on that level that there's a comparison there you know having your former friends killed okay you're I mean being paranoid of every like like it's it it reminds me of that kind of dictatorial type of leadership where you know that for you start killing your in I mean in Russia all the guys that surrounded them for in those pictures start disappearing they intercircle so yeah he killed he got someone apparently had someone killed that used to be in his inner circle this is this is what happens so comparing him to Mal no that's it's not it's a fear it's fear yeah one thing that really disturbed me about you know the whole Bukheli think right at the start right at the start when there was murmurs of starting to bring Bitcoin in and then they did the thing that really up the thing that upset me was there was anti Bitcoin demonstrations saying hey did uh and there was one guy particularly got arrested and thrown in prison and his computer destroyed everything uh taken from him and I always and I thought man that's just terrible like as much as I love Bitcoin if you're anti Bitcoin go for it you know you say your piece you shouldn't like look throw violent criminals in prison for sure you know throw murderers and and thugs but like someone demonstrating against your policy of Bitcoin should be able to demonstrate because that's how that's how you get some sort of dialogue going but you know and I thought wow that that's pretty uh that's that's pretty messed up to have someone throw in prison because he doesn't agree with you Bitcoin policy so yeah well and we talked about last week with our friend Rachel here who obviously has tattoos they threw anyone with tattoos in jail anyone drinking in a bar who had a tattoo went to jail so if you like this kind of indiscriminate not trial based not justice based rounding up of people that's what this kind of dictators style uh leadership leads to and like myster said I don't know I've killed his second and command is but well they did Josh they rounded up everybody it was it was it was getting to try on it reduced crime on the street but it also reduced population on this street they were a bit arbitrary with it as if there wasn't any rules because they're making up the rules as they go along and my problem with the Honduras situation is again it goes back to kind of these 80s and 90s what the US companies used to do with sweatshops they're just looking for weak links in the chain they're looking for a country where they can go in build a sweatshop use the people if the people unionize if the people want more control of the sweatshop less chemical something like that they move to the next country so the not only special people that special economic it's the same thing where I'm sure they were getting a tax deal I'm sure they were getting a good ride off they weren't paying taxes there's some kind of loophole that they're using to gain advantage over these people and when the government changed they changed the loophole and that's what they're really mad about and that's why it's great to see all this kind of libertarian free thinking and all this kind of breakdown when the rules change on you and when you can't stabilize what was likely a bad deal like they're probably giving this country a bad deal just as there's this corporate city trying to be built near San Francisco and they've secretly bought all the land from a bunch of farmers and now they're going to have their own city and they're not going to pay the city the city tax but they're going to be right next to the other cities so they're going to benefit from their existence but they're not going to pay the city's tax it's always this kind of we found a loophole that allows our business to excel above other businesses and now I just think they're doing it with crypto and with special opportunity zones but we'll see how this turns out we're running out of time though we're over time Adam Maister do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead it's all you well I wish everybody had a forum on Sunday for those of us who celebrate forum and I just wouldn't leave everybody with a very interesting thought provoking exercise here mind exercise a lot of people like to hate on Ryan Armstrong and I just saw another interview with him and I'm just always very very impressed and a lot of people hate Coinbase I think just a lot of it's just envy of the guy and I would you know people that compare the good he's done for the space uh to the good that Andreas has done for the space and I think it's two different types of good you know laying the foundation Andreas did a great job but you know that second level of just getting the armies involved getting uh you know fighting the government taking a stand and you know playing the game I mean he going public it's I admire what he's done a lot and I think an argument could be made that maybe in the long run when people look back people say you know Brian Armstrong did more for Bitcoin than uh Andreas Antinopolis not that Andreas didn't do anything but Andreas clearly has his weaknesses too no one is perfect no one's going to agree with you on everything ideologically politically and I think a lot of people let that get in the way when they attack Coinbase when they attack uh uh Brian Armstrong but I I just I've been impressed by Brian Armstrong's interview with with Lex Freeman which was about a year ago and just the recent one uh by the Hoover institution which I which I actually retweeted I think he's a very smart guy and he's got a plan and he does he does stand for some very good things and he wants the best for Bitcoin I think a lot of people spaz out because he doesn't always say the word Bitcoin that's that's kind of like a an nitpicky thing in the whole uh big picture uh future of a money type of a argument so that's that's my thought would be very true and if you guys want to learn more about Brian Armstrong check out the Netflix documentary coin a very good documentary about him setting up the startup and just what an incredibly hard workery was how he focused on Coinbase and pretty much nothing else I had a mono focus as well as many people on his team and as Adam was saying so many of us bought our first bitcoins on Coinbase so many turned people on said hey check this out it's a legitimate website links to your bank it's not going to steal all your money and and that's in the wake of Mt. Gox going up and everyone's saying every Bitcoin exchange must be Mt. Gox Coinbase has never Mt. Goxed uh although they have problems and so forth they've never completely flipped over uh let's go to uh Josh a golla prediction or a story of the week go ahead yeah i just agree there with you know everyone shits on Coinbase uh while i've never used Coinbase i'm not a Coinbase customer i don't really uh i do i do think they've been a good player in in this thing although they have like you know hand it over documents the IRS and all this other thing but they have to play ball they're a big company so and if you're a Bitcoiner expecting a big company in america not to play ball with the government then i got a bridge to sell you like it's it's not it's of course it's going to happen so um you know and they've they've never yeah they've never been really massively hacked i don't think uh to the well they've definitely not been hacked to the point where they've you know been brought down and you know every season playing they're they're going to play this part back in the future and they're going to be like Coinbase at this point was holding all of the assets for nine of the ten ETFs or something like that obviously this seemed like a security problem at the time but until the technology officer blah blah blah went rogue inside of Coinbase no one knew that such a major heist could happen uh oh yeah then they'll play this part and then they'll say that guy knew it's so dangerous it's so dangerous that the whole honey pot has gotten so big over there I I would be sweating bullets if I uh it was bright if only we had immediate access to other planets Brian could steal all the funds and go to another planet i think he could buy his own planet with all those funds hey you can already buy land on the moon you know i'm just saying um but yeah uh his story of the week i don't know i'm i'm i'm getting better at wind surfing i've got up kite surfing i've got up on the boards uh i'm pretty happy about that and um yeah uh build some new things on on the standard you can now uh delete your smart vaults if you're not into them anymore so that's really cool and you can send them to each other without paying them off um so it's really great and uh yeah uh check out the standard because we've got oh by the way this show is sponsored by the subscribe button and for this week only there's a good deal you can hit that subscribe button for totally for free uh so yeah go and do that um and uh uh yeah that that's my that's my stop being really nothing nothing really much to say that's very cool and you guys can check out josh's work at the standard dot i.o also shout out to adam master the bitcoin master for being here people can just google your show adam is there anywhere uh specific they should follow you at tech vault on twitter something like that yeah it's uh well shepash yolomar everybody t-e-c-h-b-a-l-t on twitter yeah that's the best i put everything up there and you'll see uh the recent interview that i retweeted with brian yesterday or something oh and it's very cool to have adam here also for josh to get up early and join us in australia it's great for you guys to join us and to keep this show going and uh thanks to everybody for joining us at home giving us the thumbs up push and subscribe if you haven't already and until next time bye bye