#400 — The Bitcoin Group #400 - Not Satoshi - $1M? - El Vault - Debt Down - Cool off?

The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hey, hey everyone. Rijal from Swan, Bitcoin. How you all doing? I'm in Raffi from BitTopia University. Good, I, good, I. Michael Carter from BitSpeakTrippin. Hey guys, how's it going? And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one, issue one. Judge Rules, Computer Scientist is not Bitcoin inventor. Craig Wright is not Satoshi, according to a British court this week. The judge said he is not Satoshi. He is not the person who created Bitcoin. And he might even be guilty of carrying out a massive campaign of dishonesty and forgery. A major victory for the crypto open patent alliance, including Jack Dorsey's firm Block. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the major decision? It came suddenly. Craig Wright is not Satoshi Nakamoto, according to a British court. Yeah, well, I'm sure the entire Bitcoin community is heaving a collective sigh of relief this week that it's finally over. This is a battle that's been going on for an incredibly long time and cause great distress to a number of people who didn't have Craig's resources. The fact that someone can really push lying to such an extent and their misery and an aggravation that it causes in other people's lives, I just think is shocking. I also think it's a very poor testament to our existing legal system that he was able to get away with it for so long. Basically, what it's demonstrating is that if you've got a deep enough pocket, you can push this as far as it can take it. And ultimately, it took someone else with deeper pockets to eventually shut him up, which I think isn't a polling testament to exactly how our legal system works. So I'm glad that he's finally been shown up, but the fact that it's taken this long and this much to get it to that place, I think really is demonstrating to everybody just exactly how many issues there are in our existing legal system that this was even able to get this far. But ultimately, I'm glad that what we always knew has now been proven to be correct. I agree. He knew exactly where to sue his earlier case in the Netherlands was less successful. When he sued in the UK, everyone was worried about the loose liable laws. It went very far. It was an involved and complicated case, perhaps unnecessarily, but it was great to see as well as the C++ examples and other things that the lawyers brought out. Let's go to Rijal. What do you think about the decision by the British Court? Well, absolutely shocked that he's not super-student, absolutely surprised. But as Victoria said, I think it's good. I always shocked that he has been deeply like a vixacious load against. I must convey the same term, British legal system, but basically, if you're someone that just sued for the sake of suing at some point, they can say, look, we can't take this guy seriously, unless there's some externuating circumstance, something like that, he can't bring lawsuits. I would have thought by this stage, it would have got to that point from the amount of obvious forgeries that have come out and the other stuff. But it's good that these guys got together and seem to really hit them on the head. The question for me is, what happens now? Do you know what they were suing for the crypto-analysis for their damages or what they're suing for their damages? Because, as I understand, it's a similar case. It seems he's committed perjury and various other criminal acts. He might be in trouble for that, but I don't think it's like, well, come as a result of what's just happened. For me, that's the interesting question. I've not been doing you guys have the answer for that, but it's great that he's been kicked out and he's obviously lost a lot of money on it. Well, he'll tell them I has money. But the question for me now is, but what is the come-up for that? You know, he couldn't, can he just bring another case and do this again? Because he seems to have done that before and just fight, obviously, the line hasn't been a barrier. So, I would like to think this is the end of the matter, but I'm not sure if we have that answer in just yet. So far, I think the court has awarded Mr. or the Patent Alliance the legal damages. So Mr. Wright will pay for their court fees and so forth. As for what it really stops, I think it stops him making claims in the United Kingdom. Hopefully, as it is about patents with the crypto-open patent alliance, it will stop him from suing on the patents. I don't think it will stop him in general. I think he'll keep going. I think he'll keep suing on the patents. Don't know anything about Calvin Air, but he's posted a good buy tweet. But I don't know if that ever means goodbye, especially when you've invested so much money at so much time in a person and a cause and a thing. I think it keeps going in other countries. Men Raffi, what do you think about the British court decision on fake Satoshi? Yeah. Can you hear me? Yes, sweet. Look, this is a very sensitive topic for me because I just attended an archipelago where great number of people were shilling Bitcoin as we and standing by the idea that somehow the right is the creator of Bitcoin and they have this really dramatic and sensitive story as to how he was played and his family was abused when they wanted to remain anonymous and now he's out to prove his the real... I mean, when I heard this, before I mean stuff, yeah. So when I heard this, I wanted to know that... I wanted to let people know everyone was arguing facts. Everyone was like, oh, you know, but he's like a scammer, he's a known disordered. And I wanted to say, none of this matters. The fact that you have a blockchain with such huge block sizes and they seem so excited that you could just post things for free, almost for free. I've got none of this so good. You shouldn't want things to be almost free. Why are you guys excited? That means for a thousand dollars, I can spam your network. Like, that is not what you want. How much junk is in your blocks? Why would you want videos on there? I don't understand where it was going. But they seem to be super excited about all of this, which blew my mind. blew my mind. Yeah, I'll turn it up. Is this better? Well, yours was good and loud. Roger was soft, so you were in both. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, no worries. So he blew my mind how people even entertain this idea that somehow all of these are great things. You know, I'll just put it out there. If a work is a reason it exists, you don't want things to be super cheap because that means you can spam the network. You don't want that. And then they had some other forum where you could, on Bitcoin SV, back certain posts to make it show at the top of the thread. That's called, like, you know, if you have a large of some of money, you could just censor a lot of people because you would just back the ones that you like. The whole system for me was such a joke that I went to our community and I just said, this is a friendly warning. So please stay away from Bitcoin SV, the real Satoshi vision. And that was actually two weeks ago. So I'm super happy to see this article come out. Great timing because then now people will be like, oh, I feel great is the real answer. I feel great. I love that in the midst of all of fake Satoshi's alleged, alleged fraud, false claims, forgeries, not signing the contract and not moving the money. A man is still mad about the block size. The real problem here is he's got too much block size. What's this guy doing? And my favorite part of this all, uh, fake Satoshi, you think people are not. No, remember, at one point, I think he told the journalist, go ahead and send a Bitcoin to the Satoshi address and I'll send it right back to you. And then it may have been point zero one or whatever, but still that kind of thing. They're like, oh, of course, fake Satoshi. I'll send it. And then he's like, oh, no, I can't send it. I'm too busy or the keys are cut in half. They're being delivered on Thursday and it's raining back to the future to three stuff. Well, let's go to Michael Carter bitsby tripping. What do you think about the decision by the British court? Yeah, I think it was, I mean, it's been long overdue, right? I mean, I understand these things need to run their course and they need to have the due diligence. But I mean, the fact that this is still news, I mean, from all of this and it's taken this long, I think the majority of the consensus of most people out there understand that this was going to be the case. It was just a matter of going through the wickets of the law. And you know, now people can now focus on, you know, other things. Is he going to stop probably not? It depends on, you know, how much this impacts them financially and any of his supporters, right? But, you know, how many losses can you take to finally, you're become so irrelevant that people don't even take the case type of thing. So I see it has always been a distraction with this. I think it pretty early. It was pretty apparent that he was not it. He couldn't prove very key things that if you were, you'd be able to, you know, prove out. And then just some of the stuff that was on misquotes from the forums. I mean, you're perpetuating a lie like this, like the amount of research and detail in a space that is so forensically looked at, right? That how are you going to perpetrate this? And you could see so many holes in everything that was said very early that, you know, I think a lot of the folks that could look at that forensically knew that this wasn't the case. It was just a matter of getting it, you know, balanced out to where a court system folks that could hear the evidence could then, you know, get to this ruling, right? But I think it's going to be good fodder for the, you know, all the feeds for a little bit and people pointing out certain things. But I don't think it'll be the last we're going to see him, unfortunately. But now I think the majority of people can kind of sit back and see what comes out on the, you know, X and Twitter and all that kind of stuff from all the folks that have been kind of holding back with the fear that they were going to get targeted, right? Well, look, a few other folks have. So we'll see, we'll see how, how quick it dies off. He was certainly a remarkable con man, a unique individual, much like other con men in the United States. He fools a lot of people. He has an answer for everything. If you tell him you're into fencing or you're into boxing, he's a world class boxer. He's an expert fencer. He's great at billions. He's just a fantastic guy. He'll sell you some ice if you're an Eskimo. He's got everything. So I think Carter previewed just a little there what the exit question is going to be, will he stop? Is this the end? Have we seen the last of Craig Wright, Dr. Fakes Satoshi Nakamoto, Victoria Jones? No, probably not. I think he's clearly got some form of mental illness. I think proper girls just said that in the chat. And people with mental illness, it's like they can't see reality until someone puts them in a box and plays as delayed. He'll probably continue as long as anyone's prepared to fund him as long as he has a usefulness. And in terms of creating uncertainty in the space, I think he certainly had a role to play. It's good that someone's finally made a judgment. But I think if he can get away with continuing to make a noise, he probably will. Rijal, is this the last we've seen of Fakes Satoshi? No, I don't think so. And I think, and what Victoria was saying was very true. It's like a quick side tangent. When he was 16, whenever it was, when he, they searched his house and he first came on the radar. It was backstage at a concert and I was talking to a friend of mine that I had no idea he was into Bitcoin and we just both found out at the same time. And he mentioned that he actually knew this dude Craig Wright. It was like his cousin's brother or something like that, like kind of loosely connected. And according to him, he said that this guy had some sort of, not autism or some sort of social disorder where he's sort of guy that will cry, like fire and theater for the effect of it, but doesn't like, you know, autistic people have difficulty kind of going to a three steps out as far as the social consequences of things, right? You know, they see what happens in front of their face, but don't think about what this might mean or how the people might react. So his, what you told me was that he's one of these guys who just do things that he wanted to think about what the social consequences are, which seems to ring quite true, right? I don't think he's a guy who like say stuff and gets a reaction and thinks this is really great, but I think, well, at some point, this is going to come to a truth and I'm going to have something to, you know, get it to sort this out. So, so if that is true, and ever since that happened, it's everything is done. I remember this all the time that it seems to be very true. And I think, yeah, I think he's just going to keep, he's a guy that seems to like it in general, he just seems to say things to get a reaction and people like that, you know, as Victorius, I think that they don't go away very soon. He's going to keep coming back until there's a jail was. But they already can't, you know, so there would be my years. Well, certainly I've never met Craig, right? And he's not my cousin. It isn't a fascinating story that if we in the Bitcoiners, as generally we've said, are right. And he's not Satoshi Nakamoto and this whole thing unravels. What a zealig like character. What a unique and masterful personality to fool so many people, to hoodwink Calvin air presumably to waste millions, hundreds of millions of his dollars to have all these attorneys that are willing to go to bat for him, waste their time, their lives, defending, attacking, defending, attacking. What a story it'll be and what a movie, what a movie, this fantastic con man fooling all these people. If it does unravel, if they can properly write about it because he's currently very litigious. So there's probably not going to be a movie. In Raffi, what do you think? Have we seen the last of Craig Wright? He will know is no end. So I feel not. So what I would say is that the result of the question is in the market cap and the trading volume that shows me how many people in the town of a blind, the one I'm one eyed man is king and Craig surely was king in the town of the blind. Unfortunately. So I don't think he'll disappear anytime soon because that's just how these things work. And I think we need to also take into account how much of that money that he spent on the case was coming out of him selling Bitcoin SV on the market. So that would be interesting to figure out too. So maybe the people that were silly enough to purchase Bitcoin SV were also funding the court case, which would be even another layer of the trust that he that, you know, we can introduce. That's my thoughts. In other possible con man news, we do have news from hex and Richard Hart. I don't know the details, but I've heard something like the hex that they bought wasn't the real hex. And now the hex that they bought has gone down 90%. So I don't know any details, but it doesn't look good for alleged con man these days. Michael Carter, you've already kind of said you think he's coming back, but what do you think? Is he coming back? Will it be soon? What's the future of Dr. Craig Wright? Yeah, I don't think he stops until he's out of money. And then he'll probably drop to just doing YouTube videos or something to try to like, pitch his case or something like, I think that's what I do. Hey, we do. I do too. So it's okay. But like I think his he's going to have any time you have a polarizing character in general, you're going to have statistically people that are going to continue to follow him, believing him. And you know, I think that's he if he firmly believes in his head, he's trained his brain to that's that he is that he's not going to stop pursuing it. You know, and I just don't see him stopping. I mean, I don't know him personally. I've never had any interaction with him, but I just see in what I have seen so far in the behavior in general. I don't think that's a person that just gives up easily, right? So I think he's going to just keep pursuing it and, you know, maybe he'll find some lower court in another country. And then he'll he'll try to catch a win somewhere, right? And then that'll be the next thing. And unfortunately, media is designed in general to to highlight like, hey, he got this, right? So then it'll probably bubble back up and we'll have to be, you know, talking about this maybe a year from now, who knows? But, you know, I just don't see him going away quietly. I think you're right. I think he is compulsive. I think there's a lot more countries, a lot more courts, a lot cheaper courts, a lot more questionable courts. We could see all of that. And then I want to go full circle back to Woody Allen Zellig. If you guys haven't seen it, Zellig is about a man who basically has no personality. He meets someone. He immediately copies them and becomes them, whether the person's a man, a woman tall, short, has a limp, any kind of thing. Zellig copies them. And it's an international delight. What an amazing person, this human copycat. And they like you're saying, Michael, they try to stop him from being Zellig and stop him from being the copycat. And in the end, he always goes back, he always goes back to copying. Let us know in the chat if you've seen Zellig. If you think that Craig Wright's coming back, and it's a great time to give us a thumbs up, push like or retweet if you're on Twitter, whatever platform you are, it's always great if you guys can spread the word and get more people to watch the show, and especially to join us in the chat and the conversation with the comments and stuff later. Moving on to issue two. Issue two, JP Morgan CEO issues shock Bitcoin reversal. His $1 million price prediction is suddenly pulled forward. Yes, JP Morgan and their CEO Jamie Dimon is back in the news again this week with Jamie Dimon himself altering his Bitcoin position, not yet positive, still different from his negative views of the past. He now says, I don't know what the Bitcoin itself is for, but I defend your right to smoke a cigarette. I'll defend your right to buy a Bitcoin. Rijal, what do you think about the continuing change in Jamie Dimon who used to hate us, now seems to like us. Of course, the ever crumbling dominoes as bank after bank as we predicted many times on this show is suddenly getting into Bitcoin. I think there's been a few things that are shown up in Twitter or the years right about like JP Morgan versus branches of it like buying Bitcoin or the current related funds, stocks, businesses, I think of that. Obviously, there's one hand of the public space and there's the other one which is like we want to make money and if you want to make money, not being a Bitcoin is getting to the point now where it's kind of like you're finding your for-distributed to your shareholders and to other people that are particularly money-conbed of your customers, right? I don't know, I'm kind of split. I'm the sort of guy that really hates the whole legacy financial world and I think all this money, macro stuff is kind of bullshit as far as I'm concerned. But I think it like you have to also admit that there's also people who are extremely anarchist or whatever about this. You've got to admit that this is also part of how if Bitcoin is going to win, this battle is going to be ahead and it's got to be won and this is how you do it, right? There's people like that may not like Bitcoin but at some point the price starts to force their hands and they must join the match to speak on with. So I know, I think the guy has probably been as senior as a financially advantageous thing to be involved in. But when you run a bank, what are you going to be going to say Bitcoin is a future of course? You're going to be trying to at least delay it until you've got a strong position, right? But it doesn't surprise me at all and I think we'll just get weaker and weaker on it. As a Bitcoiner and especially a long time Bitcoiner, you have to love it that he still doesn't get it with all his finance degrees and being CEO and hundreds of thousand dollars a year or whatever he makes, millions of dollars, I'm sure he's very well off. But he still doesn't get it. We love it. But I agree with Roger that we can't see over his shoulder to see his balance sheet. We don't know what he's really doing. We heard years ago his daughter or something like that was investing. So we don't know how much she has and daddy gives her a gift and she holds on to it. We have no idea. A min Raffi, what do you think about JP Morgan Chase and of course their CEO Jamie Diamond? Yeah, look, I just before I say something, does anybody represent the firm that many places the silver gold prices? Yeah, doesn't JP Morgan contribute to the silver prices and keeping the prices down for the gardeners how many years in the past? Does anyone know anything about this on the show? Yeah, for me. I think he's making investments silver, aren't they? JP Morgan. Yeah, and I think they've manipulated, like they keep it down on purpose for a very long time. There was a case where they did say officially that the silver was manipulated and held down not just a libertarian theory or fantasy. So I do agree with that. I don't have the details. Yeah, so I'm in the end of story, you know what I mean? He cares what he's saying. I think people really need to start carrying out what these people are saying and it seems that they somehow know what they're saying. They're just muppets. They're just muppets who have been put there to yupp their mouth and say certain things that they're paid to say. They're not important. They're not smart. They really don't have really any value apart from being a muppet that just goes on TV and yaps their mouth. That's all they do. So from that aspect, great job. He's a very entertaining guy. He could do well in Hollywood and something, you know, away from real serious stuff. But when it comes to serious stuff like Bitcoin, yeah, I mean, he said it himself. It doesn't even know what he does. So that already shows that he's labeled an intelligence. It's been 10 years. There's many books out there. You know, Andrew Santanaplis has read that many books about Bitcoin. He would take him there are be 15 minutes. He could have someone even summarized his frame in a bullet point. He's executive. He has people that summarize things for him. Say it out. That's really, I don't know how much to say. I don't really care about this guy. So it is great that his go to for Bitcoin, which used to be a pet rock or rat poison or just going to destroy you and make you lose all your money. Now it's cigarettes. This, you know, poisonous, addictive, chemical substance, not something like Bitcoin that can free people, help people, you know, make a little money here and there. Get out of their situation. Get money on the internet. So many different uses, remittances, all that kind of thing. Carter, what do you think about his comments on Bitcoin and maybe he's coming around? He says it's just like cigarettes now. I think he'll be one of those long holdouts too. And then once everything's regularly approved, especially when it gets down to custodials at banks, then it'll be one of those things that he'll have to more positively comment on because it'll be a service offering that they have. But, you know, yes, it was, there was a question earlier about the gold manipulation. So JP Morgan in 2020 had a $920 million fine from the SEC for manipulating the precious metals market in general. So it's not just gold, it's everything. And you know, I think that when you get to such a size of a company like that, there are a lot of heads to that hydra type of thing. And there are different groups and management incentives and things that cause certain probably leadership to make really bad decisions, sometimes even fraudulent decisions. And then you got the head of the piece there that has to either defend it or have a position that supports, you know, their core, tenant or core business. And I think for, you know, I think personally, you know, just from the comments that he's made, especially recently, where he keeps getting this question. He was just on CNBC not too long ago. And they were kind of hitting him pretty hard with it. And he's like, you know, I just, he, he looked genuine when he says, I just don't care about it. Like he, I think in his world, like it doesn't matter, but he keeps getting asked to have an opinion on it because of who he is. But I think one of those things that, you know, it's an old dog new tricks type of thing to where he's very set in like what traditional old school finances, he's comfortable in that space, doesn't want to really understand and what the innovation is that comes with Bitcoin. But I think from a JP Morgan in general, not just that separating Jamie Diamond from that picture, they're, they're a business and they're going to have to partake in it and provide services, custodial services for folks that are not going to go deep dive and have their own wallets. And they're going to be part of it. So I mean, that's where there's always a conflict whenever people bring up his own company. I'm like, well, you know, your company did this. You said this, but then they went out and bought Bitcoin and these different, you know, instruments that you guys could buy it in. So how's that recon salad? And he's like, well, you know, I don't talk to everybody, you know, you know, how much knowledge does he have? How much is it where he can manipulate? We do know that those folks at that scale, Warren Buffett, you know, folks like that have a lot of just by what they say when they come on, they can move a market. There are a lot of institutional investors that follow their, what they do. So you know, it seems, you know, I don't know if we're ever going to convince him or if this is like a pet project for all of us to try to get Jamie Diamond to come over. I don't know why, but you know, it's just part of that narrative since of the, you know, him being a CEO of that large of a company. You know, I don't know. I think as everybody on this panel probably agrees, the traditional finance system needs a full rework and it goes not just to the financial system and also goes to the taxes. There's a lot of things that need to be modernized and it's one of those things that Bitcoin is a strong forcing function to make certain things where it's going to become relevant to make changes to it because it's going to just outdo a lot of these current instruments. People are going to look at this as a store of value, as an asset class for transfer and it's happening with or without them. And now they're just having to become a participant in it, right? So I think it's going to be interesting over the next few years, especially when banks start to become custodial for folks and have to take positions of coins and provide services from their side on it and JP Morgan, a foreshore will be part of that. No doubt. It just must be haunting. You said no years ago, you didn't buy, you keep saying no, you keep not buying and yet people keep asking about it. Like I was saying, the journalist keep calling up and asking you about this Bitcoin and it's this almost deftless torture like a banker hell dream where you didn't invest and he said no publicly and they keep asking. Victoria Jones, last week Cuban said that Bitcoin was bananas. Diamond says that it's cigarettes, but of course now in prison they trade stamps or macro like max. Diamond needs to stay up to date, right? Well, I mean, I have a slightly contrarian view of the whole situation. I think Jamie Diamond understands exactly what it is. But of course his job is to be the face of the existing financial system and Bitcoin completely disrupts the existing financial system. I think part of their hope has been that it would die before it reached that full potential. Of course, getting closer and closer to actually fulfilling its destiny and I think they're starting to go, it's always the best to happen. Now what we do. So I think he's flip-flopping on his opinion as almost like he can't make his mind up because I think they were in their arrogance hoping that Bitcoin would die a death all by itself, but it's not. It's getting stronger and of course the stronger it gets, the more the threat it is to their existing system. And so I totally understand why he spouts a contrarian opinion. The only tool they've now got in their toolkit is to try and keep people away from it based on their existing reputation. But of course by the time everyone figures out that what they say means nothing because we've got a whole new reality that's being birthed and their previous opinions will just speak for themselves and they'll lose all credibility. The world is on the brink of realising that these guys are completely untrustworthy and the more people do their own research and start to realise that actually this is the way it's going and you need to think for yourself and not rely on what they're telling you, the better off you're going to be. So more for you if you want to list a Jamie Diamond. Anyone who's done their own research now realises that you can't untrust what they say. And the sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be. It does seem like they're evil villains and we're just about to pull their mask off and they say, oh, I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for your kids and that dog bit coin. It all comes back to Scooby Doo. But let's go on to the exit question. What will happen first? Jamie Diamond giving in or Bitcoin breaking $1 million bonus aspect, predict when on the chart he will give in. Rachel, when does Jamie Diamond break? I think well before I'm leaving dollars, dude, I mean, you would guess that some way as the minimum and the 300k he's going to do a complete reversal or just say, hey, I don't get it, but we're doing it. It's something like that. So I don't know where that point would be. Just purely on numbers and the power on ground numbers, I would guess 100,000 is going to create some headlines and some pork. Whether it happens bang on 100,000 or not, I would say that's going to be the trigger, but that would stop at discussion, I would say, certainly well before 500,000 is on the years. But the real question I think for all of this is, those wheels take a lot to set motion. I'd like to say today he decided to do it. It's going to take the least a couple of weeks to get their product launched and all the other stuff behind the scenes together. To bear in mind is obviously, I mean, I think you're right here. No, this is probably not going to continually go up forever. It's going to go too far and then come down and then we're going to have probably a bit of a big market for a while. Those kind of things as well can affect those decisions of like, I believe you know, there's been other institutions or things like that. Can a product reach the launch and then the bear market happen and like, oh well, the shelf is for the moment. So that's the only thing I think I think I think it might affect it, but I think a lot of the work of it, you'd think to be straight just like that. I mean, I think it's not very far. I think you're right. He'll definitely do it at a time that's convenient to Jamie Diamond, a time where he will make money personally in some way, but we've got 100,000 to 500,000 range so far. A min Rafi predict the future when we'll giant diamond. Brick give up. Yeah. Look, I just want to add some layers to that. This is when we say a million dollars for Bitcoin, I have to assume that the dollar has dropped in value so much that it has become worth a million dollars and that million dollars could be represented by 100,000 today. So that's something that people don't put into the case equation like Cliff High says, when silver for an ounce is in three digits, that's a very different world you're going to be living in. That doesn't mean that necessarily it's worth three digits. That could also mean that the dollar has devalued itself so much that now it's represented by a higher number. And that for me is something that I like to keep in mind. Now the second layer I want to add to that is, for example, with the BlackRock and institutional purchasing, which a lot of people get excited about, but they don't see the other side of the coin, which is that in the US, from my research, I'll be wrong, half of the real state is owned by financial firms. Now that's very worried. And people should worry about that. That means we are no longer representing things by how much they're actually worth, by how much the market sets it to be worth. And I see examples of this in Australia where a lot of people think they have somehow gained this magical wealth in the last two or three years. But what they don't realize is that a dollar is not worth 30 cents. So it's not to be excited about it because you see larger numbers for what you have as assets, but rather that your dollar has debased itself and become worth a lot less. That's another perspective that sometimes people miss. BlackRock is getting into cryptos. What it could also mean is that they could definitely manipulate it for both of good or bad, the price of Bitcoin. So a lot of people also get excited about BlackRock by Bitcoin, but they don't understand that Aladdin, for example, has half a trillion dollars worth of assets, probably more now that was a few years ago, under its control worldwide assets. That means they can control the entire market of the world, whether it's housing, precious metals, whatever they're what Aladdin is told to purchase. So with that in mind, I just want to bring it back to reality with those functions. I would say JP Morgan coming onto Bitcoin, I don't think they will. I don't think they will come around. And if I had to guess, I would say probably when it reaches a million dollars. And it won't be a good news from them like, all right, it's a million dollars. We've decided to jump on. For me, it would be more like, hey, we have no choice. And they will probably come a day. Well, you know, I just want to add another layer to this in Fox News. What was the guy that left Fox and then he created this unsure? I think it is. A little Riley. We're all in Tucker Carlson. Yeah. Tucker. Yeah. So he had this clip on on TV once where he was showing how the country, the reason price of Bitcoin was climbing back a year ago, or whatever it was, was because there is a lot of ransomware requests. So the United States government has to go and purchase Bitcoin off the market to pay these factors. And I thought that was absolutely stupid. It's like you're dealing with a country. Of course, they have reserves. And I'm going to go on to Coinbase and be like the US government account on Coinbase and buying Bitcoin. Like they buy this stuff OTC. So the fact that you can even relate to those two is just silly. So I think all of these people have Bitcoin. You would have to be very silly to not. You would have to be very, very silly. And these people are not silly when it comes to finance. So I'm pretty sure they have reserves. They just don't acknowledge it. It's just a risk. What do they call it? In terms of risk management, you have to. You would be silly to not. So he will probably deny it and then add a million dollars big for it. So that's my outcome. I do agree. It's a matter of risk management. Many people saying that 1% or 10% of your portfolio should be Bitcoin. But they might be very silly. They might be very silly men. So we've had 100,000 to 500,000, $1 million or never. Carter, when will JP or Jamie Diamond, when will he give up? When will he join Bitcoin? You know, I didn't take Peter Schiff would ever say the same thing of the meeting to it. But I think one of the last things that he was just on just said that yeah, I kind of missed the boat on Bitcoin. And he's been pretty highly on gold. I think Jamie will be kind of the same thing. But I think it's going to take a little, I don't think it's going to be the market pushing him there more than it is probably his own family wearing him out. I think the family is going to have a lot more influence on him than CMBC or watching anything online. But I don't see him really coming over. If not being just one of the long term holdouts of like I don't care. I don't care if it's a million, $2 million. I don't care that if our company is involved in it or not. He's just going to personally choose not to be. I think he's kind of had that standpoint like live on TV multiple times, including just recently. I think now it's going to be come to a point of principle for him just not to do it. Is that smart? Obviously we know that that's probably not the most smartest thing. But he's going to have his conviction, I think, to the same way. I don't think Craig is going to give up going after saying he's Satoshi. I think that's where his mind's at just based on the interviews I've seen from him. We know that just from stuff that's out on the market that JP Morgan does by cryptocurrency, they've made purchases. It's documented that they've made purchases into crypto. Once financial services are available for the rank and file banking system, then they'll be the company itself will be involved in it. It makes no sense. We just seen Vanguard CEO have to get walked out, right? Because they chose not to do the ETF and Bitcoin goes from 40 to 73 and everybody's just like, where are you guys at? They walk their CEO out. I think all of the financial institutions are going to start to collapse around it and make it part of the portfolio. For Jamie Diamond himself personally, I just don't see him conceding it. I think he's a proud person and he's not going to do it just because of it. I think in general, from a risk management standpoint, there was a risk, a discussion brought up. For companies that are out there, as an example for ours, we use from an insurance standpoint, we have Berkshire Hathaway for a lot of our mining farms. That's through a company three. On our heirs and emissions portion of that, there is now additional coverage for if you're impacted from hacking or anything like that that happens on your systems, you pay an extra premium for that to be covered from any kind of nefarious activities like that. That includes cryptocurrency. On that, which is from Berkshire Hathaway to three, to the company handling the additional insurance, they actually have coverage now to cover you down. If you did get impacted in that way, you would be just paying your normal stuff and then they're covering down on the cryptocurrency cost. They would actually be sending it. I think that's the way a lot of these companies are going to get structured versus holding it on their books for those type of things. I think companies would hold it on their books for on the finance side of just being diversified from essentially what like micro strategy and folks do where they put it on the balance sheet. That's going to be different than risk management. Usually risk management, you're going to use a third party for that to do the insurance side. Just trying to make the audience aware that actually that exists right now and if you're a business and you have that, you can't actually select that for protection. That was not a thing two years ago as an example. It was like what? You want cryptocurrency protection. Seeing those things start to fall into place when it comes to the structure of just business and finance, seeing how much progress has been made just in the last two years, I think the next year, we're going to see a lot more advancement in that integration. Jamie, I don't see him coming over, man. I don't care if it's a million or more. I think he'll hold his ground. Well, it's really cool that you can work with Berkshire halfway, even if it is through an intermediary. Obviously, I think Warren Buffett's going to huddle his hatred until his grave. But Jamie, come on. You're a young man. Victoria Jones, do you think Jamie Diamond will come around? No, he'll go down with the ship. He'll hold on right to the end. It's like, there, I never saw the point in that Bitcoin thing because the thing is by the time Bitcoin come by the time Bitcoin takes over what Jamie Diamond has to say will be irrelevant. You'll probably be hiding in the bunker somewhere, hoping we're not chasing him. Like they said in the Hitchhiker's Guide, they would be the first ones against the wall when the revolution comes. And then a copy of the encyclopedia Galactica that had been dropped through a time warp said they were the first ones against the wall when the revolution came. That's a big difference. Moving on to issue three, Bitcoin could drop to $58,000 as a cool off period as eminent Swiss block says the Bitcoin price nearly doubled in late since late January, but a counter move seems to be near. A man Raffi, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? Yeah, so different perspectives. I've been doing some research. Some say that the, how many was it like 40,000 or so, 20,000 Bitcoin's that was seized in 2022 because of the silk road and other things that I read about. Some say that the current pump is caused by black rub pumping the markets so that the government can sell the Bitcoin's that they had seized. That was the only reason for this pump. Other people say it's no, it's like institutional bias coming in. Finally, it's standardized and regular enough so people can come in. I don't really have a view on these things. I just think it's strange times and I feel like the financial system is reaching its last few years, whether that means a reset and introduction of a digital system which is on the table or shift to decentralized currencies which I don't think will happen on a large scale like that. I don't know. My answer would be, I'm in it since 2013. Long term, it's going off. Unless the dollar gets screwed. I don't know what the plan, does anyone have any theories what happens if the dollar gets you know, if all these countries are shifting to Chinese yen and these things, I don't know it. I don't know. I don't know if it answered for that one. I do agree with you. I think long term, it goes up but if a million dollars buys you a hamburger, what good is it? Let's go to Carter from Bidspie Trippin. What do you think about the price of Bitcoin and the large potential drop? I mean, I think there's a lot of various macro things going on with the ETF obviously has that a large impact on this market. I mean, there's people that are tracking outflows, OTC orders, the fact that some exchanges have been halting Bitcoin purchases because they're out of Bitcoin. I saw up hold had that for a little bit there. I saw Exodus which is, you know, decentralized, you can do exchanges through the Exodus app. There was a couple times where you couldn't even do an exchange decently because there wasn't enough spot out there to cover down. There was too much float in the price. I just think there's a higher demand on it right now. I mean, it is pre-having. We typically wouldn't see a large increase past all time highs until usually after it. This might be a little bit of the buying the news selling the event. Unlike other times in those having events, there's way more infrastructure. We do have the ETFs in the US way more onboarding ability. I mean, if you think about the 2017 cycle in December of 17, I think most people that were around at that time knew when it was peaking at all time high, I mean, Coinbase clockwork goes down. Everything was like BitMax, Binance was just starting. Nobody could get any order through anywhere during all time high. This round, it was pretty subtle besides a few of the bigger jumps in Coinbase hits the circuit breakers, right? But Binance didn't have any issues, crack in a few of the others didn't have any issues. So, you know, there's way more robustness to the network now. In addition, there's way more folks that are onboarded to be able to purchase. They got Robin Hood, you got all these other different entities to allow custodial holding going on. So, I think it's a mix of that narrative is pushing it. I think it's one of those things when it starts moving, it really starts moving. But the sell off piece, you know, I don't know, there's some of that part of the ETFs is the incentive to balance the market a little. I think this most recent today sell off. I saw a report on Twitter yesterday that the longs were close to 80% versus the short to 20. Anytime that happens, you're going to have somebody come in there and try to market, make a wreck the market, right? They're going to go take that money. So it needs to be balanced more around a 40 is 60 40 split, 50, 55, 45 split. So when you get a really unbalanced from longs and shorts, you're going to have people go in that our market makers make some, you know, some moves. And I think that's what we're seeing now. So I don't see it rationing too heavy back. What's interesting being in the Bitcoin mining space and seeing hash price and equipment and availability versus all the other times. Price has went up a lot, but to give you an idea last year, we were purchasing machines for around $500 to $800 used. The market's the same right now. Like literally I got a buy order out for S19 J pros as an example, $4.88, right? So for 100 terrasch units, it's $488. And that's at near all time high prices, right? And hash price is pretty decent compared to where it was at. So with the difficulty. So it's interesting that the selling side of the market for hardware hasn't really reflected the fact that we're at all time highs. Even though the margins have increased better, granted, hash rate has went up a lot. So I look at it like it, I don't think it's going to pull heavily back. And I think we're going to ratchet higher. You know, I think we're going to end this year over 100 grand. So that's just where everything seems like it's going and the right momentums are in the right places. So I think that's where we're at. Victoria Jones, the price, the price, the price of Bitcoin. Yeah, I mean, I, as I've said on a couple of shows previously, I think the rise that we're seeing at the moment is pretty unprecedented. I mean, it's never, Bitcoin is never breach an all time high prior to the halving before. And you know, part of the part of the issue is we've now got financial institutions involved who have very deep pockets. But of course, as far as they can push the price up, they can also do the same thing on the way down. And so, you know, I think this extreme heights in the price is an indication of extreme volatility and it could easily go down in the other direction. I think the other thing we also need to bear in mind is that the financial system really does seem to be teacher again. I know a lot of people have been talking about that. But ever and we're all waiting for the moment that it goes down, but it's like every day that passes, it seems to get more and more precarious and it's almost like we're just waiting for that final moment. And I think when that final moment happens, I think in the short term, you know, the price of Bitcoin could actually suffer. You know, there are a lot of people in the world who have their debts denominated in US dollars. And in that kind of situation, if all the banks have gone down, the only asset they have that is convertible into dollars is Bitcoin. You could suddenly see a really strong sell off in the price. So yeah, I think you have to be prepared for every single scenario. I mean, I often have people reach out to me asking me what to do with their Bitcoin investments. And I think it's a great long term, but don't have everything in Bitcoin. You need to be diversified because, you know, as much as it can go up in that direction, which is great, it can also go in the other direction. And so, you know, you might think, well, fantastic. You know, I've now got all this money I didn't have, but, you know, when it reverses on your its heartbreaking and most Bitcoiners have been in the space for long enough of have experienced that in one way, shape or form. So yeah, just be careful out there. Don't get too emotional, you know, keep, keep the state and head on your shoulders if it's being really volatile. It's for a reason. And you need to be mindful of that. That will be my advice. And let's go to Rijels. Do you think we'll see a major pullback in the Bitcoin price? Yeah, I'm not much of a tea leaf reader when it comes to the stuff, but I mean, it does seem as if you're not supposed to be like to me to be a little prematurely overextended. Certainly, I think it's like, 28K or something like that. I was saying to my friend, I was looking at the weekly candles and they'd never been maybe like 20, 11 of these, but they're never meant to be conspicuous to bring candles. And I was expecting it to have a bit of a nasty pullback and it kind of just can just all of that and keep going. So, you know, this is very, you know, the harving thing, I think it's a little overhooked, but it's not nothing. And the fact that we are as far along about getting back to previous all the time, I'm high as we are now. I mean, I think, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see something see a pullback like it was suggesting. Yeah, so, yeah, I wouldn't presume to be able to predict, but it wouldn't, it all surprised me to see that, that, you know, I would certainly think that eventually we'd run my child over time. And we might be joined by Josh in Australia. Of course, time has changed in America. We have this crazy daylight savings time thing. They move time forward and back an hour, a couple times a year. But now it's your time to predict against the Bitcoin predictor of all the source of all truth and knowledge in this universe. A man, Rafi, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I will, let me think. It's going to be higher. It's got a Carter from Bitsby, Trippin higher or lower. I think it'll be higher. I think it's going to recover. Victoria Jones, a recovery in our future. Now, I think we could maybe have a bit of a breather for a while. It's been on a good roll. I think maybe down a bit next week. And Rijal, higher or lower? I'll just check this as like 67,000 at this moment. And so to me, that seems like a little quickly pulling back more at once. I'd be thinking it would be similar if not slightly higher would be my guess. But I don't think it's going to be dramatically different. And Josh Agala joining us from Down Under after United States has randomly changed times higher or lower? Yeah, wow. I find one thing's lower. It's going to be a city. That's for sure. Wow. Yeah. What's with the times, guys? Forget the cows. Forget the cows. Think about the businessman for a while. We're global now. We've got a save daylight, even though we've got LED electric lights that hardly use any electricity at all, nothing like the old filaments. But let's keep going. Check out worldcryptonetwork.com where we've got 3,599 videos, including this one, which happens to be number 400 if you're into arbitrary round numbers. Moving on to issue 4, L Salvador to transfer a big chunk of their Bitcoin to a physical vault. Let's go to Carter from Bitsbytrip. And what do you think about the plans for L Salvador to transfer their Bitcoin to a physical vault? They're going long term hold, I guess. You know, getting it. It makes me wonder where they were storing that before. But yeah, no, I think that they're really focused on the long term on it. I think folks in the beginning thought it was a stunt, but I think what we're seeing in L Salvador really is leaning in to the space, trying to incentivize folks to come to the space to do some work and they're staying in for the long haul. I think it's a good move. You know, have a good treasury for it. I think it's like anybody that's had a lot of like, either old school Bitcoin and you're holding on to it forever. At some point when you go to use it, using it as leverage or borrowing, power versus selling your stats or immediately replacing them. That's been kind of the mantra I've used for a long time. Because if I spend it, I do have to spend Bitcoin sometimes, but I try to replace it as fast as I get, you know, got it and sometimes I catch dips like this where there's a pullback. But I think this is a good move for them. Breaking news. So distracted by Josh joining. I forgot to predict the future for you. So very quickly, will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? We asked the Bitcoin predictor about the source of all truth and knowledge in this universe. Will it be higher? Better not tell you now. Better not tell you now. It's a good thing that we asked. Let's keep going. Josh, should go all the way. Do you think about El Salvador? They're putting it in a vault. Oh, gotta unmute yourself. Noob, noob. You know, when we ran Voltoro, which was the first Bitcoin physical gold exchange that was launched back in the back of 2015. And obviously gold, big vaults, Switzerland, solid stuff. But at the time, the ECB had negative interest rates. And all the banks were storing their fiat at these private voting institutes because it was cheaper. The voting fees were cheaper than sending it back to the ECB because then they'd have to pay negative interest rates. So there was pallets and pallets of just paper sitting in these vaults. In terms of Bitcoin, you don't need pallets of nothing. So I don't know. It sounds like a decoy to me because it's part of a security profile of having a decoy. You say he is the big chunky, massive vault, but it's actually in a multi-sig with a few, like, deposit boxes around the place. I don't know. I'm just not a big fan of governments in general holding Bitcoin because it's so easy to take the whole nation at ransom if you get voted out or something. Like, there's a whole different profile of risk for governments doing this, the corporate coin. Hey, maybe with the new signatures, we can have massively multi-sig where every member of society has to sign to vote. Maybe that'll be the way. I think Josh has got a good point. We've all played the video game and we know what happens at the end. Sorry, Mario. Your princess is in another castle. Victoria Jones, what do you think about El Salvador putting it in a vault? Yeah, well, you know, given where we are in history, that probably seems like a reasonable thing to do. But, you know, Bitcoin is going to completely disrupt the nation state. And, you know, all you're waiting for is someone to run off with a private key and that's it. And it's gone. So, you know, you just in the short term, it may be fine while the infrastructure exists, but I think we're entering a time in history where almost anything could happen. So, yeah, it seems like a reasonable thing to do right now, but in terms of, you know, how that plays out long term, anything could happen and nothing could happen. Let's go to a module. What do you think about the decision of El Salvador to go with physical security for their Bitcoin? I mean, yeah, I heard rumor on this from the start out that it was in Bitcoin and you know, the custodium previous to this. So, the minute it's good that like, at least for the nation of El Salvador, that they're taking more seriously as they should, you know, I mean, you can't really have like a sovereign asset with a nation state that's, you know, with the leader that's not afraid to kind of poke it in other states and other things and have your assets sitting, you know, as we've seen with gold, I think it was with Venezuela and Germany or England, I think it was, you know, they tried to get a bunch of gold back and then it was like, ah, no, sorry, you know. So, I mean, I think it's positive, it's doing the right way, but I mean, on the other hand, I'm also quite skeptical about the hype that El Salvador and Kelly is definitely a master propagandist and so, like, this is what he said, he's done and everything, but I mean, we've seen it, we've seen it, we've seen a dress, but that could be said to be an address, it could just go on a bit and say, hey, what a dress is there, you know, I'd pick one sitting in and there it is, right, you know. So, yeah, as far as all the details of it, I'm thinking that it's great, I mean, it's a great statement, you know, how true, how law-secure it is is another matter, but at least, you know, I think it is someone saying, at least it shows that, and this is true and regular face value, they're taking it seriously and I think this is the way if, if you Kelly wants to do what he's trying to do, it's a very wise strategic move that, more so it's mentioned, you know, it's, it's very, it's much easier to steal them, you know, whatever millions dollars that is of gold or certainly to, to try and steal it by the legacy basis of them, what it takes is, and it's just a hypothetically, it's two or three multisegres, what's you, just takes us to people polluting and, you know, getting on a, getting on a plane and, you know, a country like El Salvador is going to have a slightly harder job of getting that back. I mean, this is the other thing is, you know, that's the also a live security, right? If you're an institution, someone steals your money, you can go to the government and there's some degree of recourse available, right? But if the United States, for example, was to somehow break into the sponsor and see the Bitcoin, there was an anything they could do at all. I mean, they had to clear war in the United States, but good luck. So it's an interesting security question as well. I think it's interesting for that perspective of life, if you're a nation of state, how do you secure this thing which theoretically, you know, when you think about some of that, pretty palpomations out there, it wouldn't be that difficult for them to get in and steal, going into dollars with the money much easier, and there would be another form stuff. So that's another interesting question. It seems like a pretty complicated solution to the problem of the finance minister keep panic selling and panic buying. He buys it, he sells it, he buys it, he sells it. They try to keep it away from it, he just keeps doing it. A man Raffi, what do you think about their solution to put their Bitcoin in a physical vault? Yeah, I think my answer combines a lot of these different answers. First of all, I would really advise Bitcoin fans to really take into account that ETFs as much as they wanted it because the price of Bitcoin will go up, will have very negative impacts on Bitcoin itself. Because then you have Bitcoin being traded without actual Bitcoin being traded. Like you have more silver being traded in one day than there is silver being produced in the entire year. So it depegs itself from reality. The other problem that I have with some Bitcoin people is they get excited when nations adopt it. They're like, oh, what if India adopts it? What if China adopts it? They forget that Bitcoin, this talk, decentralized cryptocurrencies, we're supposed to be bottom up. We don't want to top down solution. That is not something we want. All right, I think we might have lost a minute at the end there. I was going to ask you guys as an exit question of how much money allegedly would the dictator or someone else steal if they were to steal it by I think Rajal's right, they'd steal it all. They'd steal it all. And I just want to second what Victoria and Rajal said. Working backwards, maybe seeing this from the future, the dictator who overruled the Supreme Court, who decided it was okay for him to run for an extra term, even though it doesn't say so, who jailed all the people, anybody with the tattoo, sorry, Rajal not looking at you. But yes, if you were in Venezuela, or sorry, if you were in El Salvador, it's very possible you wouldn't have picked up just because of a tattoo. That same guy, the guy who's going to get volcano power to run his miners might run off with the Bitcoin. So if we're watching this in the future and we're saying, wow, they moved it to a vault. We'll see this as one of the key steps to where if you were reading it backwards, you'd be like, of course, when they moved it to the vault, there was some kind of an accident or a Rambo attacked, or we lost it or a boating accident, some kind of problem. But again, that's just the future. We have no idea what will really happen. Best of luck to El Salvador, I do agree with Libertarians and others who said it's nice. It's a good positive message that they're holding it and they're holding it in cold storage. But I do worry that it makes it much, much easier to steal. They still have options. They have keys and multi-sig and all that. But we'll see how it goes. Remember how powerful that wrench attack is. Moving on to issue five, micro strategies debt-fueled Bitcoin purchases could make a future downturn worse. Says our buddy, JP Morgan, who's just everywhere today. JP Morgan worries and I worry a little as well that someone like MicroStrategy or anyone really, no offense men. Holding all the Bitcoin, holding lots of Bitcoin could give us problems, especially when they bought that Bitcoin on debt, even though if I could borrow billion dollars, I'd do the same. Josh, Shagall, what do you think about MicroStrategy? Is it a risk to Bitcoin that they hold so much? Not really. I mean, it's 21 million. I don't think they're close to that. It's a problem for proof of state coins, if there was an ETF for the proof of state coins, because then you have vastly massive voting power against the chain. But the volatility, it's a problem I guess, because like I mean, it was stating, if you can buy thousands of Bitcoin at a time, you can also dump them at a time. And you can also market sell just a few of them to cause a cascading effect at a time around fear. So if you know that the bad news event, trigger a domino and then buy it up while everyone's panicking, it's just old school staff. Everyone knows these games, these large players play. And finally enough, I mean, Bitcoin's had whales since the start. And so is every other old coin. So people are used to the fact that the markets are controlled. It's not nothing new, Mr. JP. Nothing new there. Thanks for the insight. Let's go to Amin Raffi. Do you think it's a problem that micro strategy owns so much Bitcoin and bought it on debt? Yeah. My video card, I was picking two trees. Two trees. Yeah, India. Shut it down. Like we can't have this on air. You know, some people say this is... Do I think it's a problem? I think it is. I think any person or company holding a lot of anything where these gold silver means that they can influence that market. Now, it could be grains of rice, it could be oil, it could be lithium, it could be Bitcoin, it could be whatever. And that's why it's always of interest to take control of the large reserves with the lithium oil and whatever it is. And hence why we have wars. And the other point of it is that with Bitcoin being in the hands of micro strategy, you know, he could be a Bitcoin fan only. What? We saw Elon Musk do the same thing with large coin and then he moved on from there without really caring. I don't even know why that wasn't investigated. That's kind of like inside the train. But I think it's a problem. I don't like top down strategies at all. I really am a big fan of bottom-up strategies. But this is a nature of things. I'm not a communist mind of persons. I think that well should be spread equally to every person on the planet because we know it's basically that ends up acting to have a few. In not too much of a long time. So yeah, I'm not a fan, but yeah, I can't stop nature. So that's the side work. Victoria Jones does he own too much. I don't... I mean, the thing is I think Bitcoin's pretty well distributed. I know there are still a number of wells and there are still a collection in a number of big hands at the moment. But I think in the scheme of things, because the way in which Satoshi designed the protocol with the majority of them already having been issued, anyone who comes in later in the game is going to have a much harder job of catch up. And of course, a lot of the really big holders are ones who were in even earlier than Michael Sader. I mean, he only joined in. He only really took a big interest in it in 2020. And Bitcoin had been around for about 11 years by then. I mean, the thing is he's got big pockets. I think the issue with this particular article is the fact that he's buying on leverage. And I think from that particular perspective, JP Morgan has a very good point. Because ultimately, the biggest weakness in the existing financial system is the leverage, everything's leveraged, properties leveraged, governments leveraged. You know, when it breaks, it's going to be when the debt market breaks, that's a problem. And so anyone who's holding a lot of debt, while it may well be a great strategy at the moment, the moment at which that House of Cards falls apart, he could actually find himself in a very weak position and he was a bit like I mentioned earlier. You know, if all of his debt is denominated and the only way of paying that back is US dollars, but the banks have all shut in the only way of getting US dollars is to sell his Bitcoin, then, yeah, he may well have Bitcoin, but it may actually be equal to his debt. So, you know, I think there's still so much to play out here. You know, we're just in the first innings of this game. And I think when the financial system breaks, that's when things will really start to get interesting. And a lot of these holders, you know, it may well be that they're in a powerful position right now, but at the same time, they're in a powerful position, they're overplaying their hand. They're taking advantage of the strength that they have right now, whereas, you know, Bitcoin takes us into a whole new world where there's a whole new set of rules. And so the people who've won using the old set of rules will find themselves at a disadvantage unless they've started to tweak their understanding of the world in terms of, you know, how that new system is going to be set up. So, you know, and this is the beauty of Bitcoin, you know, the game theory surrounding it, you know, it turns the way of which the existing financial system works completely on its head. And that's what makes it interesting. And so, you know, I don't feel intimidated by any of these people having more Bitcoin because unless you've got the right attitude and the right strategy, you're still vulnerable to making big mistakes going forward. Michael Sayler makes all the conferences, talks to businesses, makes the tweets. He's in all the memes. It seems like he's good for Bitcoin, but he lives on leverage. What do you think, Rachel? Is Michael Sayler in MicroStrategy bad for Bitcoin? I mean, I think a lot of what Victoria said is some, definitely some Echorist-like elements to verse in that like this. He's not the first person to think that he's a genius and he's figured out Bitcoin and eventually fly too close to the sun and get it, come up and score, you know, for the who's the believing that you had. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, it seems to me to be, I mean, to say that I'm not about the leverage, but the other one is, the biggest issue for me is like MicroStrategy is a American company with corporate in the United States. And my problem with a large amount of Bitcoin is that if you're a legally regulated entity, you can't just be come and take it, right? You can't come voting excellent and I've lost my Bitcoin's, right? You know, which is a lot of people are, again, this is Cooper's stuff, this whole idea, right? So really, you know, as far as I'm concerned, the Bitcoin's had the US government's Bitcoin's because the Bitcoin became a systemic risk to the financial system, which if it keeps exceeding it well, of course, he's just going to confiscate these Bitcoin's, right? And what is MicroStrategy going to do? They're not going to jump on a pirate ship and go to China or somewhere else, right? They're going to hand those over. Otherwise, they're all going to jail. So, you know, this is my problem with it being distributed in any geographic place in anyone's spot as much as possible. Obviously, MicroStrategy just takes 205,000 Bitcoin something at the moment. That's a lot more than most of the things and I think a better world would be that some more equally distributed. But, you know, as people said, you know, it's Bitcoin is kind of really free markets, pure free market stuff. And at some point, some guy with a lot of money is going to realize this makes a lot of sense and jump ahead of a lot of other people that just don't have the resources to do that. So, you know, I think this is unexpected. It was always going to play out this way, right? And some rich guy was going to turn front run this and get ahead and get way too much. But, you know, it's making the target eventually and what we see is this changes hands many, many times over many, many years as people, you know, eventually we end up in a more equal distribution just through the way of the little of the jungle if you like about people eventually figuring out, you know, on be too much of a big target even. Well, it's been a long time in this space. I think we'll go to Michael Carter. And I'm going to go over back in the day. There was a con scam called Pirate at 40. That guy would buy Bitcoin for you and hold it. If I was going to start a company, I think I would have started a company where you buy Bitcoin and hold it. Seems like a good idea. But now micro strategies actually done it and it might be a threat. Carter, what do you think? I mean, I think we got to see some of this almost play out when with the FTX failure, right? He had leveraged positions on Bitcoin. Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin dropped from, you know, 30s all the way down. At that time, I was right. I think you bought it at 34 and it dropped all the way down to 16, right? There was margin calls at 20. He went and got more financing to cover the position. So I mean, I think somebody at that scale with his resources, look at the liquidation risk, look at the volatility, look at all these aspects. You know, the more systemic issue that folks have been kind of keying on is the more larger economy having more existential issues and maybe hyperinflation kind of stuff. You know, I'm going to tell you if we get into that, not, you know, some people would say not if but when, we're not going to be talking about micro strategies, Bitcoin position. That's, there's so much more impactful than even Bitcoin that's the like the financial system collapses, which I think it's going to be stages and then I think it'll be propped and then there'll be stages and then certain things will start to look different later. If we had full financial collapse, Bitcoin is not going to be on the conversation, right? There's way more involved in this space than just Bitcoin to have that kind of systemic risk. So, I think that it is a risk, I think they've calculated that risk. I think they've borrowed with that in mind. Nobody knows what the price of Bitcoin is, but I think that they have a calculated, you know, with backups and plans before they would start to have to liquidate their Bitcoin. The math is though that if it gets too so low of a point and they start getting margin called on it, and then there's a selling off of those Bitcoin assets to start to cover that position. It's kind of one of those magnifying losses that happened in some of these things when they get too over leverage, kind of how Wall Street bets did to Melvin Capital, right? They took positions and they murdered them. The retail market took them out. So, there can be, and that's part of, I think, if we've seen anything, that's part of the, as the, I would call it the bigger boys get into this space, especially with some of the regulatory stuff that's kind of green lighting them. The more systemic risk is that you do get somebody much bigger than MicroStrategy coming in there. Maybe it is the BlackRock's first venture with the ETF, that they really start putting some pretty heavy calls on there. Drive price way, way up, cause a vacuum to kind of come up with it, then people take more margin and more risk, and then you have a collapse down from, let's say, $230,000 to $50,000, Bitcoin price back down to $50,000. The margin calls on that are going to be a lot more heavy. Not saying that the $73,000 to, let's say it goes back down to $20,000, isn't going to be impactful it absolutely would, but I think it's a whole different game when we start really getting into larger multiples. Who knows what inflation maybe that won't matter, but, and those numbers won't add up to dollars versus now versus later. But I think that it's not a current risk. I think that they're probably playing the tables to where they're mitigating that. But yes, I think that, and any major market shift or condition could definitely put him at risk. Anytime you take margin, that's part of the game. You know, I just think that's where it's at. And I think that we're not, micro strategy is not going to be the only one doing this. I think we're going to start to see a lot more companies start to get into that margin, which is going to, which is going to be one of the key drivers of pushing it up past that $200,000, $300,000 price point. As Carter was saying, if you want to learn about leverage, check out the excellent movie dumb money about the game stop stock situation and the retail buyers. It's very funny. The guy even has this microphone. I didn't even know it at the time when I bought it, but I like the movie. It's a good movie. But we're running out of time. So let's go to predictions or a story of the week. Victoria Jones, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Yeah, well, my story of the week is a continuation of the one I had last time I was on, which is the Bitcoin Fest that we're putting together in Nottingham. It's the first time I've really been involved in helping to organize pine the scenes. And my contribution is I'm going to be organizing the live stream as well as speaking at the event. And so we're trying to build up some momentum by I've started doing some live streaming on my YouTube channel, which is the toe she's page. So we're looking for more subscribers. So if there's anyone on here who hasn't subscribed yet, who'd like to support us. If you want to come over to my YouTube channel, Satoshi's page and yet Thomas is showing the poster for the Bitcoin Fest in Nottingham. We're all looking forward to that. And yeah, we've got 500 tickets available. 100 tickets for VIPs, which are almost sold out. And it's still three to four weeks before it actually starts. So yeah, really looking forward to that. Very cool. And that's April 6th, 2024 and just Google Bitcoin Fest, Nottingham should come right up. Thanks, Victoria. Let's go to Rijal for a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Well, man, I'm a spot. You've got covered all the stories of the week. I feel like so. I'm just trying to think of what I want to come up. I'm using it to just go with like a prediction man and say that I would think that Bitcoin is going to top out of the cycle at around 300,000. No, nothing to back that up just that you put me on the spot base. My guess. It is written in stone. We will call you about it later. It's good as any of the other digital. Absolutely. Thank you, Rijal. Excellent prediction. Let's go to Carter from Bitsby tripping prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. That's a great one. You know, a prediction. I think that we're going to see some some interesting developments from regulatory front. I think there's a lot of. You know, this is election year. And I can start to see some of that narrative of how, you know, the crypto space in general. We've already seen a couple. I think it's going to be a lot of things come out where there was some anti, you know, some government anti ETFs for like a theorem. I think there's going to be some more stuff coming around that that that scope. That may or have some effect on us. You know, both from a positive standpoint, you know, maybe some upcoming election folks in the US that might have some effect there. We're going to start to see some more of that discussion happening on what's going to what's going to be next is going to be finer a CFTC who's going to be providing some new guidance. Excellent prediction and be sure to check out all of Carter's work with Bitsby tripping where he's been covering Bitcoin mining as long as I'm doing mad bitcoins. So back to 2013 or earlier, he's doing some incredible stuff now with kind of more industrial mining large scale lots of miners. Much bigger than graphics cards now, but shout out to Bitsby tripping. Carter, is there anywhere they can follow you or your webpage something like that? Yeah, yeah, so Bitsby tripping.io is our site. Yeah, we've been expanding we're up to nine people now. We have four sites. We just the stuff that's been on YouTube and on Twitter. We I try to do a daily vlog teaching. It's kind of like the what can I show from a lessons learned sometimes things that have failed and how we have fixed them that kind of stuff is what I kind of show. Just really just in the life experience in the Bitcoin mining space. Yeah, I think we made channels really close to each other. I was December of 2013, but had been mining and sharing stuff since late 2010 on Bitcoin talk. So I've been around for quite a long time on this space, but love to share most all the content I put out there. Not silly or any kind of you know stuff like that. It's just like here's a journey that we're on on Bitcoin mining and maybe we can share something that can help you guys. And I don't know the details, but Carter and his company they're putting in Bitcoin miners at power facilities. So it's the kind of thing we always hope would happen at it's actually happening in there. One of the groups pushing it forward. Yeah, yeah, we put we put some containers on actual power plants was what which was an interesting journey because that's critical infrastructure in these. But it's you know we've had you know turning generals down we've had folks there that it you know to understand a lot of it's been just through education. And some of those things really helping communities and local areas. You know hiring locally and just trying to bring people to understanding it's kind of like the gateway that we're using to educate people on on Bitcoin in general. The security of the network that sort of thing so yeah we're doing it mostly in the US. But help with projects all over that you see in his just in Germany a few weeks ago and we're kind of all over so it's a great journey. It's fun. Excellent. How do you get the chickens laying again? Apparently last week we did a story about the some mining farm disrupting the chickens laying their eggs. You know we've had definitely some interesting concerns. I mean from everything from you know is this going to heat up our particular city to and I'm like well you know thermal dynamics don't really work that way. But we there's definitely been sound stuff that we've had to do and we we try to educate people like like what we've went through to try to kind of demystify some of that I've always encouraged local government and states to come down and see what we're doing. Just to ensure that there are participant in supporting you know the local development of those you know situations and then using a lot of stranded power so like we're at they had a lot of government earmark dollars it made a lot of windows because of a lot of green energy stuff. And when you drive up and down where we're at they're all off they don't there's no demand and they haven't built the transmission to move it because that's very time consuming so it's one of those things where it's like hey all that cut. Those tax dollars and everything that was raised to do that let's turn those on and actually balance the network with these so we're able to do that here locally in Illinois. But you know it's there's a lot more to do so yeah trying to work within the frameworks and then educate on top of it but yeah there's very interesting things that do come up when you're trying to get zoning and stuff. It is funny as Josh was saying last week on the show we talked about how perhaps because it's called mining people think that Bitcoin mining is dirtier than say having a Google data center in your town and that there is kind of a reactionary element to this but you guys can check out last week's episode for more on that Josh a golla prediction or a story of the week. I mean I think just in turn following the Craig right stuff it's interesting for me personally it's it's good to have a finality on that side of you know and but what's what's really interesting now I feel that he needs to appeal this because otherwise he goes to prison or needs to sign or something needs to happen. So yeah where this is going and it's so interesting seeing the Bitcoin community still still making excuses for the guy like it doesn't matter what what happens there's always like oh well he's you know he's he's just tricking them or whatever like he actually wanted the court case to go like this because that way he you know like no guys you've been you know hood winked for a long time and you've got this thing. You've got this thing called cognitive dissonance where it hurts to admit to yourself that you've been fooled anyway yeah so that's just my story of the week. And last but not least let's go to a min raffi for a prediction or a story of the week go ahead I mean. Yeah so first good to see Josh you know well yeah yeah yeah so for me I'm just been focused on privacy so I'm going to be launching a privacy summit somewhere along the second half of the year I also have the business unchanged innovations UN CHA I and ED innovations.io where we know we support privacy through devices so we have a lot of phones laptop. routers privacy calls one-on-one. Tutorial one-on-one coaching and things like that and people that pay with Bitcoin get 10% off and now the next stage that we want to go to is doing the privacy summit because we see that there's a lot of mess out there with things are not coherent or there it just take mind that people speaking. You know like a echo chamber said a say and that's kind of our vision for this year so quite focused on that and in terms of prediction I predict that there will be a black market. So I'm going to start with the first one event at some stage this year I don't know when but it will be some stage this year that's my prediction. I hope that that means the price is going up. We'll have to wait we'll have to wait. Not financial advice. So my story of the week is I've been reading again I went to the bookstore and I lucked out I found a cool book to read. I really enjoyed the movie and the book the Martian by Andy Weir and now thanks to some wandering through the bookstore I found his newest work project Hail Mary. It's very similar to the Martian it's very sciencey if you like the Martian you'll probably like project Hail Mary so check that out. Now I've moved on to his previous but also new to me book called Artemis and it's about a moon base imagine if we had 2000 people living on the moon. Sounds like fun so if you want some sciencey books check out Andy Weir author of the Martian who wrote project Hail Mary and Artemis thanks to everybody for joining us we're running out of time until next time.