The American Original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest sitoshis, the best bitcoins, the hardest crypto currency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Josh Legala from thestander.io. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Good evening. Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Hey you, what's new? Ben Arck from LNBITS. Hello, let's be back. And I am Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one, issue one, Bitcoin could hit $69,000 by mid 2024 as it enters acceleration phase. Analysts says Bitcoin prices have doubled this year amid a spot ETF pushed by prominent traditional finance firms. They've even got the graphic of the bull. Josh Legala, what do you think about the potential Bitcoin bull market? Well, for us that are fundamentally in Bitcoin because of the fundamentals, these numbers that these articles pull out of their but holes, it just means nothing. All it means is, yeah, I absolutely will reach $69K at some stage. I love how they put the little word could in there. It's just a no news article. It's like, hey, we've got a slow week. Throw us out a number and we'll write an article how Bitcoin could reach that this time and we'll put a picture of a bull. Everyone's bought their Bitcoin, right? In the office, everyone's bought it. Okay, release the article. That's kind of how I feel about that. But yeah, yeah, I mean, it definitely could. The other thing I don't like is putting all the eggs into one explanation. Well, there's an ETF, BlackRock. Yeah, no, again, I don't want BlackRock to be the reason why Bitcoin goes up. It doesn't really matter what I want or not. But fundamentally, Bitcoin will go up because the market sees value in all of its utility and its capability of holding value and its scarcity. So yeah, and you know, mindings are like all of it, all of it's pointing in the right direction. So I do think the articles, right? I just don't like these sort of ridiculous pool numbers out of your ass sort of articles with pictures of bulls and bears. There was a great quote on Twitter, Josh, where a guy was on CNBC and he said he didn't like Bitcoin, he didn't understand it, but that he was going to buy more. And I think we're going to run into a lot more of that this season as things come around and these traditional guys say, well, it made 5% last week. It made 7% this week. Like, I don't know what's going on. I don't care what the havin'ing is. I don't, you know, they assure they know about ETFs and all that. But I think they'll buy because it's the, you know, the new shiny object. And Eve, what do you think about the bull and the bear markets? Yeah, I think it's only right. People are going to get swept in. The FOMO is going to hit. So rather than people that slowly get educated in a bear run and it will get all the retail investors jumping in as well as these institutions now, especially with the rumours of another potential ETF, which I think we'll cover later. But what's, I think the most interesting thing about this whole thing is that the CME top to finance futures volumes, which is pretty big, right? Because finance is the biggest exchange in the world in terms of the raw crypto. And so for an external non-crypto company to start beating its volumes, that's pretty big. That's pretty bullish, one might say. So we're going to, that's the sort of thing that gets the headlines in that actually gets the general investors, retail investors, institutions all on board thinking, hey, we just jump on this train like VCs who just jump on a freight train as they did with FTX, you know, Sequoia just flew straight in there, right? So we're going to get, see a lot more of that. And especially as the harvining, the hype around the harvining picks up. And it's one of those things that, you know, those in the know, know, and would be able to explain the harvining, but you're here like random people are going, have you heard, like the taxi driver, that'll be the real event, right? Have you heard about the harvining coming up? So I'm looking forward to hearing about my Uber driver telling me about the harvining soon. I like it's like a religious holiday. They're not sure if it's going to happen. They're not sure what day it is. It's like some weird religion like Halloween, but it moves around and we're all waiting for the great pumpkin. Remember that when the bull is coming, that means that the horn is going up, pointing upward when the bear is coming, the bear is swiping downward. And these are the fancy descriptors that we use for our financial markets to keep it confusing. Ben, Arck, what do you think about the bull and the bear? A bit cool. I mean, I think that, you know, if you look at historical parvinics and what the price has done in the past, this reminds me of that. When we sort of cruised to 3K during those COVID years, and then we had the last harvining and then we pumped up. And I think 200K is the target really, not 69K. I think it's like a conservative prediction. But yeah, like Josh said, there's fundamental types, fun and mental Bitcoin. It is going to go up to, you know, dizzy heights because it's just supply and demand. And it doesn't really matter what happens with an ETF. Like the very fact that we might be supplying the system, guess, restricted, pushes the price up. And yeah, so I think it's next year, honestly, I think it's 200K. Like it's, we'll get there in a blink. And now's the time to look around the room and then look all these hardcore mofos who were like, could be in care for this period where Bitcoin isn't cool. And yeah, we'll have like all this, like actually happy with other pumps as well. We'll have all these new people coming in. And it's really a time to sort of see who's around now and see who's working and see who's building things. And they're the, you know, the Bitcoin is you want to stick with during those dizzying heights when we hit 200K, which will happen next year. It's a great reminder to push the thumbs up button on today's show. We get about 40 likes to show. So you could be one of them. And it is interesting. They have picked a random number. They've picked 69 for 20 for the meme value. We kind of have to get over that. And then they'll say, oh, it's a new Bitcoin bull run. And oh, if you would bought Bitcoin at this price on this day, oh, what you would have done. The articles all flip over and suddenly we're intelligent again. Josh, you're competing against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the source of all truth and knowledge in this universe. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? It was obviously a little higher recent. Yeah, I think it could reach 69 for 20. I just love that number 69 for technique. I can get past that. Yeah. 69 for 20. It's like the Bodimic boat face of internet. Yeah, he really is. I'm just taking that piece. Dan Eve predicting, predicting face will the price be higher or lower still higher. I think I think we've got a way to go. Well, this is the F hype is getting getting everyone's lips wet. Then arc ETF hype more articles articles about articles articles about articles about articles. It's funny because like obviously the ETF thing will pull a lot of liquidity into Bitcoin. But it's something I'm looking forward to because currently like all these investment firms and funds who want to invest in Bitcoin the best way they can do it with actually owning Bitcoin. It's investing in Bitcoin companies. So as soon as we get an ETF all that will stop. So which will be a shame. But yeah, no, higher, higher, let's go higher. Higher, everyone likes higher. And now the Bitcoin prediction ball be where shaking it could cause bubbles. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher next week? Concentrate and ask again. Well, you know, the ball is not been giving a lot of predictions lately. He really had a subscribe to get the pro version of Bitcoin predictor ball. I'm not sure. I think it's sad that you went away traveling. It's like it's just being like every time you ask it a question. Things are going to go away. What are you care? I'm not even a picture ball not not brought with me in my suitcase. The strange uh, strange liquid ball. Why is that ball of liquid in your suitcase, sir? Don't know. Moving on to issue two. El Salvador has naive bukelle's Bitcoin gamble paid off. Just as when the prices were down. Now that the prices were up, everyone's a fan of El Salvador and the same thing for Michael Sailor who's made a 1.2 billion dollar profit off of his Bitcoin huddle. As we said when they were down, they would be heroes if they held and it went back up. It went back up at least enough to get them to their point. Does this change anything about their actions or who they are or what we would have done if we had had billions of dollars to buy a big coin back in the day? Dan Eave, what about El Salvador and micro strategy? Well, I mean, they're down like they're down overall, right? There's all the articles like to point that out. In terms of the value that they've invested, but it seems to have brought a lot of what, you know, tourism to the country, a lot of you know, other economy stimulation from either just the news of them adopting Bitcoin, but also the investment that's gone into the country in general, whether that's because also they kind of cleaned up a bit of the crime by the sounds of it. All be it in a bit of a precarious sort of way by the sounds of it. Allegedly, is that what? But ultimately there is, you know, they are the first company, a country to have Bitcoin as their standard and that's going to have, there's going to be ups and downs. We'll hear about all the times when Bitcoin isn't doing so well and they'll be the IMF trial laugh and them and all this, but they paid off their loan, right? So that's one major, major win. The fact is that it's very early days still, which we do have the harvining around the corner. So as we kind of know, as Bitcoin is that their generally follows a bit a bit of a pump, yes, they may have kind of kicked everything off slightly the wrong time. Imagine if they'd have done it just a year later when Bitcoin was sort of 15,000, they would be, you know, really, really laughing now, but they had to do it at some point and there's no time like the present. So this, obviously, the volatility is always going to get people right until Bitcoin becomes a bit less volatile when, you know, the world starts to adopt it more and more. The volatility will tend to affect people a bit more when buying their daisies, but only when compared against the dollar. If everyone's transacting in Bitcoin, then the price of the dollar doesn't matter because your price of Bitcoin is one Bitcoin. One Bitcoin is one Bitcoin. There's also, I like the fact that they're doing compulsory Bitcoin education in schools, which is definitely a step forward. Like I still absolutely have no idea why in schools we didn't learn about compound interest or mortgages or loans and predatory loan practices and things like that. If, you know, I think the education system really needs to be revamped so that people, I mean, maybe it was after I saw when school because it probably was a few years ago now, but it really makes a difference with knowing about something before you go into it, knowing about a loan before you actually and really knowing about it. And that's something that I really respect the fact that they're teaching it in schools and teaching Bitcoin in schools. I'll comment about the monopoly at the casino, like playing monopoly at the casino. I didn't make a play monopoly at the casino. I thought they're two separate things altogether, but I think next time I go to a casino, I'm going to play monopoly. That's for sure. It sounds fun. I'm not sure what casino you can play monopoly at, but it sounds like a good time. I guess it's been interesting to see them throw their big money in the company and the country, like you said Dan, but again, we don't get to pick our Bitcoin friends and it's interesting to see what the big players could do when they have the cash. Ben, Eric, what do you think about El Salvador and micro strategy? I mean, fair play. They've stuck through this bear market. So there was probably a thought that maybe they were just right on that bank, why could all be Kelly was just to, you know, go, gather a few extra Twitter followers and then they would bail when the Bitcoin price tanked, which he did. He tanked the price by the way with his silly Bitcoin city announcement in a volcano using miners, which was just mechlamania. I can have what was like, oh, this guy's nuts. Okay. And then that's literally one of the price tanked down from the last high. But it was the ultimate play because it's such a guppy small economy, like even with Bitcoin price going down, it pulled in loads of businesses. I know loads of businesses who set up in El Salvador and a bunch of like very rich Bitcoin moves there as well. So someone like Max Kaisen moved there, you know, and then they bring a lot of a lot of value into the country. So even though Bitcoin price went down, the actual economic GDP went up, which is good. And it's, the things like so there was in Lagano, there was Trito, Calf coffee, and they were selling bags of coffee. And when they sold a bag of coffee, they're using Alamed bits, they're using the point of Alamed bits point of sale. And then they were using the split payments extension to split payments to the coffee producers who were unbanked. And in the supply chain of coffee production, so I'll for Salvador, one of their main exports is coffee. Because the people who grow the coffee, they don't have bank accounts. And then there's a whole bunch of hops. It means that they just get ripped off. So as it was with this company selling the coffee in Lagano, the coffee producers were being paid at point of sale. Because we've got this internet money now. So when someone buys that bag of coffee, then that coffee producer in El Salvador can actually get the money. And because they have Bitcoin as a currency, they can then use that locally to buy for pay for goods and services. And they were getting the value they get is five times the value they would get if the coffee is traded on the open market. So I think that's really exciting. Like seeing it's like real world use case of Bitcoin being used for remittances and then for like split payments and money streaming. It's very powerful like banking. All these people have got bank accounts so they don't get ripped off in supply chains. So that's been cool. Like to see real world use case and Bitcoin actually being used for some good. And also props to them for not just bailing during the bear market. And I think that they're going to do very well when Bitcoin hits 200k, having to stuck with this. It's just about increasing more adoption, which will happen, I suppose, as the price goes up. So I'm not pretty positive about the whole last Salvador thing. He's our dictator. We love it. He's our dictator. Josh, Shagala, what about Bukheli and Michael Sailor? Once they were unsuccessful now, they're just about breaking even. Well, you know, I love how these articles, they say things like they call it a gamble. You know, but what in life is not a gamble when, you know, everything pretty much is a gamble. Well, we, but it's the language that's kind of used to put a negative spin on his decision. When really it was, I think probably one of the best decisions it will be, it will show to be one of the best decisions any leader of the world could have made for the, for their people. Because their people will actually understand the fundamentals of this technology, rather than just hearing it and seeing a ticker go past in the bull market on CNN, rushing in and getting wrecked. These people, because they're being educated slowly and properly on the fundamentals, might be able to actually understand that, well, it's down at the moment, I'll cross-average buy-in some or whatever. And as we build out technologies, as we build out things like what we're building at the standard and maybe stuff like that on Bitcoin, as well, you'll be able to see solutions to some of the volatile issues. And there's other people working on volatility within the Bitcoin space as well, by having automatic shorts and hedging capabilities within the technology. So there's all sorts of stuff happening. And when the market takes off properly, these people will be held up on a pedestal, told that they were absolute geniuses. But this sort of language, like, oh, it was a gamble paid off. It wasn't a gamble. It was a well-thought-out decision to get away from the World Bank, from these sorts of predatory, monetary and countries that basically like China that go in and flood your market with debt, to then ask for massive amounts of remittances or ask for ports and critical infrastructure. So I think it's a really good choice that he may always have. But I do feel like Ben Tenees, I don't want to, as well, say that, oh, everybody should love and praise this guy. I mean, he's another leader. I think it was a good decision of his, but he's just another person in my mind, obviously, he's leading a country. But yeah, I think this is what we've got to watch out for. It's these sorts of loaded words like gamble. They're there to manipulate you. Exit question, if they both succeed, who will history remember more, the rich man, or the rich dictator who built a city on top of a volcano? Dan Eve. Rich dictator all the way. Yeah, yeah, especially with a ninja volcano mining setup, you know, securing the Bitcoin network, turn the country around. I think he'll be remembered a bit more. Obviously, sailors still, they'll still be remembered both be remembered. But I think Josh made a really good point, like the fact that you can call it a gamble, I think, is just absurd and agree that everything is a gamble. You know, Bezos starting up Amazon was a gamble. The Googles as a start was every single thing where someone put money in in order to invest in their time and idea was a gamble. And it's, you know, you can't call it a gamble. It's just making logical decisions based on based on the opportunity, which I suppose is gambling. But that's just another way of saying it's that, you know, I mean, I think the obvious question here is great dictator or greatest dictator. Ben, who will history remember more, the rich man or the rich dictator? I mean, thankfully they scrapped the volcano Bitcoin city idea. But it wasn't just Bitcoin, it's well, it opened up to the surface as well with the surf sea. So you just saw an opportunity, and it wasn't a gamble. He would win either way. He would pull in companies, or he would have the Bitcoin price would go up eventually. And, you know, their Bitcoin holdings would go up as well. So no, it wasn't a gamble. It was just a good decision. And we do need to be careful with these dictators. The Milton Friedman back there, you know, the Chicago boys backed a dictator once upon a time. That didn't turn out too well. And we don't want to be on the wrong side of history. But hopefully, you know, this big alley guy wants to fix the country will hand it back over to democracy. And, but less, let's hope, let's cross off fingers. But yeah, the, yeah, yeah, the it was a good play and it's paid off. That definitely happens every single time. We've got a report from the beach boys that if we go to surf city, it's two to one, two to one, two girls for every guy. Josh and Gala, who will history remember more, the rich dictator or the rich man? And he'll be very, very rich. Yeah, I think the dictator, I think it'll be the first country to accept Bitcoin. I think it's and you know, it's happened every time dictators hand over the country back to democracy without any violence. So it tends to be the thing that, let's see, let's see. I, you know, I'm, you know, I'm not opposed to benevolent dictators. I'm also not opposed to, you know, I'm opposed to it, I should say that. I'm not. There's some democracy, what I'm trying to say here is that there's some democracies that are worse than benevolent dictators because there's an illusion of democracy when really it's a dictatorship because you get to vote for fake two party systems. So, you know, that's that's why I meant by that comment. So when you cut this clip and just decide to cut that first bit and leave the rest context out, you know. When the, when the, when the, does that to you, yes, but the benevolent dictators is still looking for our first member. We're still looking. We're out there. We've had many applications, but it always turns ban the end. Well, let's move on. Just quickly, before we move on, that sometimes you need that crazy single party to make a very, very hard decision like that. Sometimes it just takes that and this is definitely the case with some companies. It's like, you need a whole new infrastructure. You need that single CEO that's a nut bag to then say, I'm going to take this company in this direction. Everyone goes, what? We would never vote for this, but they do. And it turns out well. Oh, I remember she said, let them eat cake. And he said, off with her heads. One man made the great decision. Moving on, check out worldcryptonetwork.com, where we've got 3,254 videos. That's a lot. We're also keeping track of the sidebar where many appearances are happening. Dan Eve is chasing tone vase. Joshua Shagalla and Ben Arct have knocked Jimmy Song off the board for a number of appearances on worldcryptonetwork shows. You can always just click on the person's name and then see a selection of shows that they've been in. All for free at worldcryptonetwork.com. Thanks to DJ Booth. Issue three, Ethereum price surges as BlackRock takes steps to offer Ethereum ETF as predicted on this show. Right here from my mouth Bitcoin does all the work. Grounds out all the land, all the winkelvi, all the ETFs we talk about for years and years and years and years on this show. Ethereum just says, hey, you're having an ETF. Me too. Ben Arct Ethereum's having an ETF because Bitcoin's having an ETF. They're also going to wear our hand be down clothing. What do you think about this incredible development that caused the price for Ethereum to go up 10% then drop down about 5%. As I said before, I'm looking forward to these ETFs because all these funds will stop investing in Bitcoin companies and I suppose Ethereum companies as well. But I mean, Ethereum has been running a long enough now. It's not something I care about at all. I don't do any work on. But it's been running a long enough now that it's a legitimate project. It's doing its thing. It's got lots of users. Why can't they have an ETF just like Bitcoin? They can aspire to that as well. But I've started not looking forward to get or push the price up, but the amount of investment into Bitcoin companies will slow down because of it. That'll happen, I'm sure, with the Ethereum stuff too. Maybe not. Maybe the renewed price push will then push more liquidity just into VC funds as well. So yeah, it is what it is. There you go. Ben, I was going to quote the old man at the end of network for you. And then the profits from the ETFs will go back into the Bitcoin companies connecting together standards and practices. It should be... Josh Shagall, Ethereum is getting an ETF too. Just like Bitcoin. Just like Bitcoin. Yeah, well, we said it. Like you said, it's only a matter of time until those coins get its own ETF. Now, the thing is that it does... I don't know, Ben, if you're right, that it'll stop investment. I think that once the ETF is there, there might be a section of time, a little slice of time, where that will happen. But eventually, Bitcoin will reach a lot higher mark and the gains are not as high as if you invested in a smaller-cap company that could be profitable. So, you know, yeah, it could happen for a little bit. But yeah, the Ethereum ETF, what's interesting about the Ethereum is that they've recently chose to move to proof of stake. And it's still an untested technology. I would say it's a lot riskier to have an ETF on Ethereum purely because of the proof of stake stuff. It hasn't had 10 years yet. Saying on Ethereum, we have had proof of stake for 10 years. But we haven't had one project consistently not be... Not anything happened to it. It's looked pretty good so far and I like to always have conflicts in my own arguments. Is that there is so much money that is entrusted on the Ethereum network already. So, I do feel that people feel confident about the technology. It's not like some pump and dump, where something has some crazy market cap and then doesn't have it the next day. Ethereum has had years of toil and experiments and upgrades and everything else. So, we'll see, it's definitely a different beast than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is very, very steady, strong, doesn't change much. The technology is well understood. I don't think we can say the same for Ethereum, basically, just yet. I don't think that it's out of the picture. It will happen where people time builds that trust. But yeah, let's see. I'm very, very excited. Danny, what do you think? Ethereum ETF, but problems from proof of stake? Well, as any... I'm defending proof of stake, but has any actual proof of stake coin been hacked yet? There's many examples of proof of work where... I think it might be more a fear of centralization, right, Josh? If people are really interested in Ethereum and in staking the coins, they get more coins. The more they stag, the top 10 start to become the top five, the top three, just like the media companies just did in the American markets. Emerging and merging until they get control of it, and then they change the rules of Ethereum somehow.. And then they get more money. They're not going to make a change that would... She own their own doorstep, right? If you've got such a massive of a coin and a bit of such... You could change the name to X. It's always big. Indeed. From bird poop to general poop. I obviously see that there's proof of work. I do think superior for a number of reasons, but I don't think proof of stake is really that bad because of the game theory of of your own doorstep. You're going to make decisions that will destroy your own investment, especially when you own such a huge amount. I'm not on the fence of how proof of work is better than proof of stake because it's very clear. But I'm on the fence of how bad proof of stake actually is. But it is more and more so being a stick to Bitcoin because of... The environmental issues and blah, blah, blah. But even that's been counted now by far, far more reports outweighing, outnumbering the outweighing in terms of analytics as well. The shady reports that are going into Bitcoin uses more electricity than the entire solar system and all that. And if we continue with this trajectory, then we'll use more electricity than the known universe within six months and all these crazy world-ending theories. But why not? If Bitcoin is getting an ETF, then why isn't Ethereum going to get one? And it's just can't wait. It's going to happen. Come on, those coins. There will be a dose of coin ETF. There's going to be a Litecoin one. There's likely there'll be a Litecoin one. The sad times, hate to say, there'll probably be a Bitcoin cash one eventually. These things will all happen as much as everyone will hate it. But that's the free and open markets. That's what we're sort of here for. So as much as people may hate the fact that Ethereum may have an ETF, it's not guaranteed. It's only they've made black rock have made steps towards an ETF. It's going to happen. It's an in-evidence. I just want to add to your point, they're down with proof of state. I think about a lot of the way too much that I should really. But one of the arguments against the Lightning Network was centralization. One of the arguments was centralization at a Lightning Network, which is ludicrous because the Lightning Network is software. So it's very, very easy to when it's not like building trenches and laying cables and then going, oh, there's a bad actor. We can't do anything because it's hardware laid cables. It's very easy to just go, oh, we're going to take that node off and route around that bad actor. In a similar way, proof of work is hardware. There's a lot of hardware in massive things. It's very, very hard if there's a bad actor to route, like to basically take that offline, like when I say bad actor, like a bad country that wants to take over or bad. It's very hard to dismantle all that and everything else with proof of state. It's quite easy because there's not that much hardware. It's more software based. Things are a little bit more fluid if there are bad actors. On the other hand, like I said, I like to have contradictory arguments within in one sentence. On the other hand, you have problems where people, companies like large exchanges, which there are many of, by the way nowadays, hold large pools. If they become a bad actor, it's very, very hard to take your Bitcoin or your Ethereum out of that pool and move it somewhere else if they choose not to because they're now a custodian. So it's way much easier. What do you think about the argument that I've made several times here that the interesting rollout of Ethereum, where first it was proof of work and it went out to a lot of people and it was mined and now it's held by many people. And then it switched to proof of stake. Are we on just a really long tail where all of the Ethereum is eventually attracted, like we're thinking, to these top five, top 10 wallets? Is it just going to take longer and still have the same effect? Is that still the real problem with proof of stake that if these wallets canglomerate it if they got large voting power, they could change the software? Well, you could say the same for proof of work because we're all the big miners, we're the big pools all attract all the Bitcoin and then two pools become more because it's more profitable or it's more manageable and more predictable to have your money in a large pool. So the same argument goes for proof of work a little bit, but I don't know, I'm just not sure. And this is what's so beautiful about this space is all experimental. And these people that come out and say, this is the truth, they're lying to you. You should be a bit hedged. You should be careful of people that say, this is the only oracle, this is the only truth. This is why when we split between big blocks and small blocks, this is why Satoshi's answer to the fork is so beautiful or having a fork is so beautiful because you get a coin on each chain. If you had a coin before one, you get on both because we don't know, maybe one is better than the other, maybe not, maybe big blocks are good. I don't think they are personally. I think small blocks are the way to go and building L2s is the way to go. But this is the thing. Don't trust people that have such strong opinions that they cut out everything else and maybe they make good arguments, but I would always keep them open mind is what I'm saying. It's like what's decentralized enough, like we would say that proof of work is probably more decentralized than proof of stake, but the reality is like we don't know how decentralized things need to be until we have big attack scenarios. So like you say with the big blocks, if we were proof of stake, then Roger Verbe would have won that argument and the users wouldn't because the majority of people who would have had the coins would have been the ones who made the decision ultimately. At that point, we wouldn't have been then decentralized enough to defend against it. So it's proof of work I struggle with it because obviously yeah, it just consumes a lot of energy. And proof of stake doesn't, but I think we need it as decentralized as possible and I really think the proof of work is probably the answer there, but maybe for Ethereum and the way that rolls, proof of stake is fine. It's a lot simpler as well. Proof of work. So there's less attack surface and that's I think super important for something like as fundamental as Bitcoin. We haven't been attacked yet. Like we fly into the radar, people generally like these things so they don't attack them enough but when the bigger talks come in, then that's what we'll see which is what we, you know, how decentralized we need to be. There's one of the issues with proof of stake is that it's a, the attack vector is very, can be very discreet because you could have 100 wallets that have most of the supply. But they're different addresses right there, a state is still staking. So no one would know that with a mining pool, you know that SDR that slush balls got X percent for example with the mining panel and obviously there's nodes, the nodes come into as well. But with staking, you could easily have you know a huge much more of a significant supply of the coin, but it's, you know, people wouldn't make the link to know that you actually have 70% of the coin supply that's in your voting power rather than only 20%. And the same going back on the same argument with Bitcoin right with proof of work, it's not just about miners, nodes also stop attacks. But couldn't you just carbon copy, I like that was from the noddle wrap. But can you also just carbon copy in a bunch of VPSs that set your own nodes up that also flood the market with nodes that vote in your favor? Is that an attack vector? That's got to be one right? If if nodes also have, I think you'd have to pay for the nodes, so it would be more cost. Yeah, of course, but if you if you're paying the same you pay for mining power to attack right? So you'd still it's still a possibility you could pay, you know, you could be I don't know a rogue Amazon, you could literally like take over with a fricking sword in an axe and like take over an Amazon warehouse of servers and be like, and point them all like make out truly in a VPS is that all like carbon copy, they're all, you know, and then suddenly you become the node master because that's taking me to the bottom right? So it maybe you may not have an axe or a sword. I'd be easier on proof of stake. Yes, I was just reading in the hitchhiker's guide about a television show that was so successful more people watched it than existed at that time. I wonder if the ETFs will be the same way. Ben Ark, who's getting an ETF even if they don't deserve it? Name your favorite altcoin other than Bitcoin and Ethereum that just might get their own ETF. Manero. Manero, Josh Jagalli, you're going to go the same way of privacy coins? Of course, it kind of destroys the whole purpose of a privacy coin if you have some large organization holding all of your coin and then they can't be used for privacy and they just sit there. But I don't know. I mean, I think it could in the end, it could be any coin really. I mean, it's it's, you know, ETFs are basically companies that buy certain assets and you invest in that company or anything. I like it any coin. As you said to me in Malta, it's called fast coin because it's fast. One coin. Dan Eve, who's getting an ETF and you did already say does coin, but you could say does coin again. I did. No, I'm going to go. I'm going to be completely messed up here and I think that enough time is going to pass that one day there will actually be an FTT ETF. I think it's going to get bought out. Something's going to happen with it. We'll get bought out and some crap will happen and then years down the line everyone will forget and there'll be an FTT ETF and Sam will be sat there in his jail cell, spanking off to his courtroom picture of Caroline. I'm sorry. I just keep thinking of that funny little meme. I think it was people. Do you see it? It's like the first person people. It's been pretty hard correlately about Sam and Prison. I think he's setting it to a start. It's one of those ones I started a very public place and I was like scrolling through my phone and I looked at what's this and I realized what I was like. I think that's what Elon Musk said on Joe Rogan. It's not it's not that safe to follow people anymore. He's starting to put crazy stuff on. But again, I love it. I think people has been fantastic. But yeah, it was a credible satire. All right. I think we're going to move on to issue four. Issue four. Whatever happened to NFTs. NFTs were featured on the Simpsons. Maybe one of the greatest shows of all time. The entire first segment of the Treehouse of Horror was about Bart Simpson being transformed into an NFT trapped on the blockchain and then rescued and saved by Marge. It was an incredible 15 minutes or so about NFTs. The price even started to rebound the next day with several very expensive crypto punks selling for millions of dollars. Josh Shagalla. It's just like Bitcoin and Ethereum and everything else. NFTs are dead. We will never hear from them again. Meanwhile, pop culture like the Simpsons just can't start. Stop talking about them almost as if they're going to have a comeback. What do you think? Yeah, I think NFTs need to start being broken down into the subgenres of NFTs because NFT fundamentally is technology that allows you to trace one token through the network. We used to laugh at artists saying, we should put art on the blockchain. But now they do. They have. It brought in a massive wave of people. Some would say, created the 2021 boom. But I would say that was just money printing. But anyway, yeah, it needs those different genres because I think things come in cycles and those cycles aren't going anywhere. The genie is out of the bottle. You can now fingerprint a piece of artwork and put that print that hash on the chain and link to it. You can now even on Bitcoin actually inscribe the actual image into the blockchain. So it's not just a link. You can do a whole lot of things. I'm just looking forward to some of the other stuff that actually come out. I really, really want to see the thing that about 50 million startups have tried to do and that's put ticketing services on chain. So I can buy a ticket to a concert. Then if I can't make it, I can sell it legitimately. The actual artist gets a cut of the secondary markets. There's all these reasons you can have NFTs and they're not being used yet. I wonder why? It's a little bit sad. Locks on doors. Being able to send the key to an Airbnb person to say, here's the key for today and the key. There's so many cases for NFTs, the dynamic NFTs we've made on the standard.io. There's so many cool things. Let's see. I think the Simpsons is great to see pop culture at Simpsons and obviously South Park when they did theirs really do such cool work, such fun ways of representing. Sort of taking the piss out of ourselves as well, which is great. But yeah, they're coming back out of the blockchain. It's not going anywhere. I agree, Josh. I think they should separate tickets and other things from collectibles. But then it's interesting to see how at the end, the ticket becomes a collectible again, how it can be used for entry. But then at the same time, someone might be collecting those just because they couldn't go up, but they could still get a stub. One of the things we always talked about when we were making Curio cards and we were talking about NFTs is basically we're talking about the ability of you to make a unique digital item. That's been true with Bitcoin and everything else. And then it was true with NFTs and it doesn't mean that I don't be incredibly valuable, especially if that item is a one-of-one and only one person wants it. You need to get more interest in that in the market. What's fascinating and unique about Curio cards that may lead to their success later on if they are eventually rediscovered by the larger market is that Curio cards are actually fungible. You could trade a number one and Apple for any other number one that's an Apple. There's no way of knowing that this was the first Apple out of the vending machine or the last because they're not serialized in that way whereas many other NFTs are serialized. So even if it is a series of prints, people might want the number one print more than the other prints and the same way if you have a profile picture and yours is the unpopular crypto ape or whatever it might not sell. There might not be a market for it. But it's interesting with more fungible NFTs, it's easier to find a market. Again, I still think with the same thing as altcoins, like the top five altcoins stick around, the top five NFTs stick around, historically Curio cards, rare pep A spells of Genesis, crypto punks, crypto kitties, moon cats. It could be just like Bitcoin and Ethereum and everything else where it goes quiet for a long time. We see all these companies adopting it, all these companies saying, hey, we could make digital collectibles too. That was always the point. It was never the point that you can't make them. It was always many people. Everyone can make them. And we're starting to get there and that could mean value to some. Dan Eve, what do you think about NFTs? And of course the Simpsons who also had Futurama covering Bitcoin in the Hulu remake and eventually. They're pointing out, the icon was a good at pointing out that the mark, the volume's down to a tenth of what it was in peak. But then that's happened in many of the altcoins and even Bitcoin, early Bitcoin cycles. So obviously, Bitcoin is a different kind of fish, but it happened early in the other cryptocurrency cycles. It's face it like Litecoins been around now for 10 years. So only four years less than Bitcoin. So these things are as love and more hate them. They're around state. But to say that the market's like kind of dead is just crazy. I mean, Bigatti recently announced their creating NFTs, American Express and with the US open. So you're seeing multi-billion dollar and million dollar companies and I have big at ease, a million or a billion. I think it might just probably be millions. But anyway, but American Express, that's a huge, huge company. They're making NFTs. And what's cool about this is that these companies are much faster to go into creating NFTs and seeing the value of NFTs than they are accepting Bitcoin. Obviously, there's a lot of other different kind of geopolitical reasons for that. But there is a clear, from a business perspective, a clear utility point for having NFTs, the abilities we've said about events and things like that. And it's just like, you know, listed off a number of different ideas that you can use NFTs for. So it really shows that these things aren't just redundant. They're not just pieces of art that just created out of thin air. I mean, obviously loads of them are. These carbon copy, you know, here's the penguins with like, different funny hats. Oh, look, all these shitty penguins are funny hats. The funny hat penguin crew. Oh, it's so good. You know, no, no, I've never seen anyone who's got a shitty funny hat penguin collectible TM trademark. But yeah, there, you know, there are a lot of companies actually using using them for utility and loyalty cards and things like that. What I was I said, these are all specifically though, they did, they missed, I'm sure they missed out on a trick here. They said, fueled by celebrity buyers, including talk show host Jimmy Fallon and Paris Hilton. And the one thing they missed out there is that a bunch of these celebrities, and I'm pretty sure it was at least one of those two was given them in an undisclosed and deal allegedly. And so they should have actually declared it that they basically didn't buy it. They were given it as a shilling thing. So naughty, naughty, naughty to sort to kind of carry the shell like that. But yeah, they're not, they're not dead at all. It's just a low in the market. It's going to come back again. Love more ham that they they they they are here to stay just like all coins are unfortunately for for some they're not bad. They're not big coins. Who cares? Big coins, Bitcoin. But just stop. Whenever you're writing an article, stop referring to it as Bitcoin, the largest cryptocurrency by market cap, just go Bitcoin. Like just say Bitcoin. Oh, but I think that it does that automatically. It's like a macro on their machines. Correct. Auto correct. But yeah, down that's one of the things we always used to talk about with NFTs is how great they would be for advertising. You can print them up for almost nothing. You can give them out for your fans for free or even get them to give you an email address or other valuable information in order to get them. And then they even go beyond that because after that they sit in your customers wallets. You could do a survey. What NFTs do our customers also buy? You could drop additional NFTs on them in the future. You could even give a multiplier if you have 10 of our NFTs like the idea is just go on and on and on. And it's all advertising and it's all really cheap. And you get a lot of biographical information and data. It almost is like a tracking bug that you're sending to someone's wallet that then reports back in the same way that we installed all these Alexa devices in our houses. We installed all these tracking bugs in our wallet. The minute you accept the Chester Cheetah NFT Cheetahs knows everything about you. Let's go to Ben Archer. He disappeared. He just had to talk about NFTs and he disappeared. Josh, you go. What do you think about NFTs? He's operated. I said an AFT. What was the question? NFTs for tracking and advertising. What do you think about the possible? Yeah, absolutely. This is actually a fundamental problem with the Ethereum Metamask wallets. Not using UDXO bases. I don't know. Let's see if someone can fix it. Let's see if someone can fix it because it's actually very dangerous. I've said it before, if you walk into a shop and you buy your cart in a milk with some sort of stable coin in the shop in the dodgy country, you can see that you've got $20,000 NFT there. It was going to rub you for it. Interesting. Josh, at one point, you want them to be visible because you want to brag about your art gallery or your binder of baseball cards. But at the other point, like everything else in our lives, it needs to be version controlled. You need to have that access where you're like, okay, you're a friend. You can see these. You're a stranger. You can't see these. You're a stranger that I want to sell these to. You can see them. There's a variety of different rules that need to be put on this if we're going to have a more complex, secure NFT environment. Yeah. If I had Facebook went through it, right? Originally, Facebook just showed everything to everyone all the time. And then more people realized the consequences of that. And then for, would pressure Facebook to put these sorts of version controls in and now it's too late. People just don't like Facebook at all anymore. But social networks in general have learned over the years that users actually want control of their data. On a strange to see, even with a simple device like the Amazon clock that shows you photos, sometimes it shows you the wrong photos. Sometimes there's someone who has a lot of photos in your book, but you broke up with them where they pass away or you don't want to see those photos. And there's these really complex human rules that they have to learn. You can't just randomly show photos all the time. You might offend someone. Yeah. Yeah. Got a Dan Eve. What do you think about NFTs? Or actually Ben, Ark, we were disconnected before. Your opinion on NFTs have been withheld from the internet. Go ahead. Yeah, I just switched to phone because my laptop died. I think the dot com is led the ultimate example of lots of people being excited, the dot com bubble, lots of people being excited by new technology. And then all this these stupid projects flying around and all this liquidity flying around and these crazy valuations for things which are utterly useless. And I think time and time again, we see the happening in the digital world. And we've seen it with NFTs. It's just crap out. Like, yes, there is definitely a use case here, of course. But it probably needs to be good at some point. And not just for the sake of the very fact that something is non-fronted and you can exchange on the internet. It's interesting because actually like, you know, where all this stuff began, like with the Cypher punks with Hal Finney. So Hal Finney worked for Mattel. And in 1982, he designed and built the game, the Avengers of Tron. And in that Tron has to navigate through a digital world, past enemies and collect collectibles. And then you can imagine how Finney thinking, well, why would those collectibles have any value in the digital world where everything can be copied? And, you know, I'm pretty sure that a lot of what we are now is from that thought process of him having to kind of imagine like Tron in that world. And why would these things not be reproduced? Why couldn't you just copy and make more of them as you could always do in the digital world? So it wasn't until Bitcoin that we actually had something which was scarce, like digitally scarce, which is an incredible thing when you think that everything in our real world is scarce in one degree or another. And that's what gives value. So yeah, like looking at the dot comable, I think it's just that you always see like the same thing repeating, the same process repeating itself. And there will be some great projects which emerge from this NFT world. But in the immediate term, it was just loads of crazy money and people making loads of money off crap. But there's definitely value there, like think about like in-game items like people who spend large amounts of time earning items on some multi-player role-playing game on the internet or something. And then the game design is just suddenly decided to make more of the item and it sucks, like it sucks with the gameplay. So it'd be nice if there was some way where its scarcity could be pre-predicted and they could then trade them on an open market outside of the game. So yeah, there's a bunch of use cases for NFTs which are very exciting and I hope to see more of them explored. But that current iteration was just, you know, people being excited about the technology and pumping money into a bunch of crap. Well, it will be interesting to see if it comes back, as we've seen before with Bitcoin and other technologies, they go through this cycle, everyone says that it's crap and worthless and then they say, well, maybe there is two or three projects that were good out of all that. I think we're going to move on to predictions or story of the week. Josh Tagala, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Yeah, so my story of the week is we had unfortunately an exploit on the standard IO which wasn't actually a code thing, you know, a code solid here. But somebody put 10 Bitcoin into the standard borrowed a bunch of U.S. And then we have this new function where you can trade and you could trade over to Pax Gold. An arbitrum, there's no liquidity on Pax Gold. So what they did is they basically created a liquidity pool with Pax Gold or maybe there was one that was really small and and then they traded, they generated all this UOS, they then traded that over to the Pax Gold. So they siphoned their own Bitcoin out into the liquidity pool because they own that pool. So now they own the Bitcoin again outside of the standard and then they dumped the UOS onto the market and took the liquidity. A good thing is we patched it straight away. We managed to get in contact with the hacker through encrypted messaging and on chain and he returned some of the funds. Yes, there was a large amount of liquidity that he kept which is unfortunate even as nothing we can do about it. But we are we're back up the market is back up and yeah it's crazy. We repagged to the to the euro which is great and we yeah we're just onward and upward onward and upward and trying to figure out you know obviously we patched there's a technological patch and I'd like to thank Chainlink and Gamma Protocol and a whole bunch of people that came to the rescue with us and helped us through this. They really were the community really came together and yeah I just it's amazing to see how quickly we can all come together in the face of a diversity. So yeah thanks to everyone out there and now we're actually better than ever more people know about us now it's kind of at this weird strange effect where more people know about us and more people helped us to get out of this rut. So yeah it was a very very stressful and tough week but we made it and it's only upward from here. Sounds like an okay outcome Josh is not about if you get knocked down it's about if you get back up Dan Eve prediction or story of the week go ahead. Well I'm not sure that my story of the week is going to be Josh's everyone coming together after pegging. Sorry but I have got something all right so everyone it's a bit of a difficult time for me after the after what happened last time but you see I was walking out my house the other day I'm short of breath now I was walking out my house the other day and what did I find I found a fucking pigeon that needed some help and so this is Larry and he's a bit wobbly on his feet and he's he's been eating bread got whole meal bread I literally was on my door I swear to God it was on he was he was on my probably I don't know I can't check he identifies as he he was on my doorstep as I was walking out the house the gym was like I was a fucking pigeon like what am I going to do and and he couldn't move and he was like walking along and had an injured wing I thought I you know in memory of Barry I was like oh do I skip the gym class and and the thought crossed my mind and I thought I can't leave Larry here I know like cats live all around the place probably a cat that did it and so Larry's been with me for the last couple of days I think he's doing okay I think he is it's pretty cold out there so he's moved into the house and and he's been eating loads of bread loads of bread absolutely loves it won't let me feed it to him he's still a bit sketchy but yeah so I'm now the pigeon whisperer Dan the hero of pigeons incredible it's got a Ben Ark prediction or a story of the week guy I'm really going to think it's top top these great stories man like Josh I feel for you this is hard you did everything in the world you could to order it but it's not until these things are in the real world and it's that the level of competence and some of these people who hack our systems man yeah we've had we've had some in our bits and that some of the some of the exploits they'll find like it's so small and niche and they they get in there and it's you could do all the auditing in the world but it's not until you're actually running something out in the wild that that you get the hardening so it's cool that you know you've had that happen and then you've you've hardened and the standard IOs better for it which you must have been a crazy week for you there but not as crazy as Dan's week with the pigeon I don't think I've got anything to beat it prediction no no nothing I've got nothing I'm empty you did just go to Asia right for the bar Asia conference yeah yeah do I came back from I came back from Nostra Asia in Japan in Tokyo that was cool that was a Nostra conference and like great speakers and like great projects and yeah Nostra is is being used to line Japan which is cool um I was uh I demoed IOTO for Nostra which is ah so there is a there's a there's a there's a wordcrupter network connection here so the first video I ever did on wordcrupter network was BTC IOT and the idea was at the beginning there's a little video by Andreas and it's an opolis a little segment I pulled from another podcast and in it he's talking about an IOT future which is controlled by the users as opposed to being controlled by the companies um and uh with Nostra now we can so I can have a client and then I can direct message a light bulb until it's turned on or my heater until it's turned up or my my solar panel batteries and you know ask what the readout is and how full they are um and it means that I don't have to like sign up for these horrible or well-earn terms and conditions you get in IOT devices and it means that like with home assistant and like this sort the free and open source IOT stuff you can do now you you need to create um uh open up ports and use wire guard in order to run software and on clear net and blah blah um whereas with Nostra you know you can just have these clients locally and then I can we can just DM each other and as long as they can connect to that relay like we can just share information through that relay um so yeah that was the thing which I was like unveiling which black coffee he works in Alan Betts that's one of the thing he'd been working on and uh it's super exciting like I turned on get turned on a lamp with my uh Nostra IOT application client and it's just like a simple like literally just a web page and has a web socket to a relay and turning a thing on yeah it's turning on so that was great and there was also that and I mentioned world crypto network in my talk for that reason because of the BTCRT things that was cool yeah I've got about that see you had lots to say after all I was going to say one more thing is Joshua and here uh was it last week or so I used the standard by the way Josh and and it was amazing really so so really really good app just literally like forget about having to sell crypto just lock it up and then take a loan out against it it's amazing if only we had that in like 2013 you know we don't be rich or for it oh god yeah absolutely amazing and like I think 10 minutes flat like end to end and that was we fiddling around with like hardware wallets and the usual like you know cable was not working and stuff like that so no absolutely amazing yeah really good app very cool uh I don't have much of a story this week but I was uh one of the last people I think to see Oppenheimer uh they had a re-release into iMacs this week so I went to see it in the iMacs it was indeed three hours long uh you could almost watch each hour as a separate movie uh but it's a great movie about a complicated man and a complicated time in American history it was very thoughtful uh doesn't exactly lay conclusions and uh has a great uh you know style to it great structure uh very much like all of our stones great films all of JFK or Nixon uh that same kind of historical fiction uh but presented through a movie so it's great to see I want I want to know why when that came out people were like Barbie or like they were comparing those two movies it was the weirdest thing I was like what do you mean why are you even comparing these so there was even a thing where people would watch them back to back even going movie theater to movie theater and uh they're they're just so profoundly different I very much enjoyed the Barbie movie I think it's very strong as a movie but Oppenheimer is just so heavy you feel so thick out of you go after that you have to really if you're watching the film if you're understanding the film you go home and you think about you know what happened and the choices he had to make and the situation and you know this side and that side and it's just a powerful film uh Barbie also powerful but not in the existential nuclear war destruction of our world how can you how can some people some people it is there right they're like well but in the Barbie and Ken Barbie and Ken broke up I mean I don't know a lot of things happen they get back together I know it's spoilers for the Barbie movie about the end but uh no it's it's a great it's it's two good movies and they just came out at the same time also I want to kind of celebrate them for not being although Barbie was it's a product but uh Oppenheimer not a comic book movie Iron Man was in there but he didn't have any powers he we from the boys was in there there's a lot of great actors in there all you know practicing their craft without without comic books as a source of material so that was nice too I did read the I did read the the sale of Barbies went up tenfold after the movie what about the sale of atomic bombs no one reported on that haha gotta go up I mean it was talked about in detail everyone knows now the secret is out uh I think we're gonna reach the end of the show here so thanks to everybody for joining us give us a thumbs up uh write a comment down below say hello in the chat it's been really quiet over there I don't know if it's a working or not uh Josh made fireworks up here somehow I don't know how you did that Josh but uh he's got the gestures turned on and zoom or something but until next time bye