#383 — The Bitcoin Group #383 - ETF or not ETF - Ordinals - FTX Gains - Bitcoin Ferrari

The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest sitoshis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Ben Arck from LNBits. Hello, Shemail. Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Illusus and menoms. Daniel from Nodesdrich. Greetings and salutations. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one, Bitcoin flirts with 38,000. As a spot, Bitcoin ETF hopes, encouraged the bull run. Bitcoin was inside of $38,000, a level lasso in May 2022, amidst an ongoing rally spurred by expectations of fresh demand for the fledgling cryptocurrency from exchange traded funds. We talk about them every week. Ben Arck, what do you think about the ETFs and Bitcoin 38K? God of the delay. We always happens. They announce the ETF. They put in their filing and then we get a delay and then it doesn't go through. But it is perfectly, you know, it's allowed for the SEC. It's a good thing the SEC have these delays because they are actually trying to analyze the offering and see whether it is because they need to ensure safety for the institutional investors. I'm not that excited about ETFs in general because I just feel that currently one of the best ways for institutions to invest in Bitcoin and also in Oster. Well, I suppose Bitcoin in this context is for them to invest in companies and the industry. Whereas I feel these ETFs could perhaps pull some of that funding away. Maybe not maybe checking an egg. Maybe it will encourage more investment by big funds and then we'll also have more investment in companies and industry as well. We get it now. We've got some big players, black, prox, big player and it's a good filing. So it's all these things which we talk about every week and then when we could just happen and we'll have that Bitcoin ETF and the price will go crazy, particularly alongside the harvining as well, like the amount of people who are piloting Bitcoin, that's how we get to our 230K which is where we're heading I think next. So yeah, good luck to the ETF people. It's not something I'm going to personally get to buy but you know, we'll help those pension funds get some Bitcoin in their portfolios. But then I hope they also could see it investing in companies. Don't forget 600B, 600 billion dollars per coin. Dan Eave, will the ETF get us to 600B? Well, there's definitely generating a lot of hype right. And you know, there's now the I, so I was both saying I was going to actually, about the investment being taken away from actual core Bitcoin companies. Well, hopefully this will actually not take investment away but will the all the hype that Bitcoin's getting will actually bring more funds into the ecosystem. So it'd be good if it complements all the actual investment that's going into existing Bitcoin countries and companies. But it seems like we're definitely on a good trajectory for December which historically has been pretty bullish apart from last year, December 22 since 2014 it's been a generally bullish month. And it seems like it's going to continue that way. Although we could have a really bearish January 2024 if the ETFs get rejected and everyone's all sad from now. Also, maybe people pulling out, pulling out for to pay for taxes and stuff like that, especially in the UK when it taxes you're on the 2020 in January. But yeah, I think ultimately there's going to be a lot more interest in Bitcoin because of the hype, not just because of the price we've got the harvining and the ETF. It's like a double whammy now. This kind of whirlwind of things to talk about. And then not just that, as we said before, we're seeing more studies around the positive effects of Bitcoin on renewable energy and that side. So we might have this, the Holy Trinity. What was it we discussed in a while back, like the Holy Trinity of things. So I think that could be a whirlwind of fund for 2024. I think it could be a perfect storm. We had October, up, November, up, December. Daniel, is this how Bitcoin just keeps going up a combination of the ETF and the harvining, knocking us into insane prices like $600 billion of coin? It's going up forever Thomas. But we have a we have an October. It does make you insane, isn't it? Like if you're in Bitcoin a little while and you're like, yeah, that pack of gum I bought, yeah, that donut I bought, that's worth $10 now. That's worth $100 now. And it just keeps going up and you're like, you remember that advice I gave you 10 years ago where I said, hey, buy some Bitcoin and they're like, yeah, we ignored you. Well, it's 10 years later and my advice is the same. You should buy some Bitcoin, right? It's still there. Yeah, my catch on and I want to have something. It does. But yeah, so I think it, you know, we're in a good place right now. I'm happy that it's not moving too quickly. We've had a really good year after an incredibly bad year and not just a bad year for Bitcoin. Just a bad year in general, you know, with the beginning of the war in Ukraine. There's so many different external factors that have affected financial markets and you can't place it all on one specific thing. But the last year, you know, there was a wash out of a lot of the worst actors in the industry and now, you know, a lot of that's coming to the conclusion, you know, SBF's going to jail and, you know, hopefully forever. But we won't have him in the next bull run. Maybe someone else will come along and, you know, it'll start all over again. But, you know, that at least is off the table. And then, you know, Dan, you said the having is coming up. Most people don't know this. They haven't been paying attention. The people who just see Bitcoin as a price on a screen and don't understand the asset and the intricacies of the code, they're not looking at that. And so it always catches people by surprise every four years. It's almost like you can set your watch by it. People just come in when they see activity, when they see everyone's talking about it, when your Uber driver's talking about it, your barber's talking about it. That's probably the time you want to start, you know, beginning to ease yourself out of things. But for now, you know, we're in a holding pattern where most people just aren't paying attention. They're tuned out. There's so much other stuff going on in the world that when it's time to pay attention, they'll come in as they always do. And the fundamentals won't matter to most people. That's just, you know, the reality of human psychology. I think you're right. Daniel, it does feel like the end of Goodfellas. They're playing the song Laila. And we're seeing what happened to each of the, you know, criminals who wronged us during the last cycle. And there's SPF hanging up in the freezer. Dead. Is shaggy furry hair. Moving on to the exit question. Black rock files for spot Ethereum ETF. The price of Ethereum probably goes down 5%. It was a real buy the rumor sell the news event, but a larger issue raises here as discussed and predicted on this show. There will be altcoin ETF starting with Ethereum. Benark, which altcoin ETF will be next and will you go as far as to guarantee a doge coin ETF? It will be not not to coin ETF. Naster coin. Uh oh. Dan Eve, which ETF will be next name and altcoin? I think I actually think a site from Bitcoin and Ethereum. I reckon it's going to be something like, I think it'll be something like Litecoin or even Bitcoin cash like that. It wasn't the reason is that those four, it's a Bitcoin Ethereum Litecoin. And Litecoin and Bitcoin cash. Well, I can't remember who's, what was it? Oh man, those completely escaping now. Like the predictions of that time around. The delity of something. I think there's a little bit of fidelity that's starting up at some sort of exchange with those four currencies. And although it sounds crazy, it's because they've been around for like six years or something. Obviously Litecoin a lot longer like 10 years. So I think that's more likely than something like, I don't know, I don't know, Polygon ETF or something crazy like that. But it isn't crazy though, it jumped like 5% on the news of the ETF, but of the potential Ethereum ETF. And isn't that just a, an absolutely micro movement compared to what, you know, imagine if that news had come out like five years ago, that would have been like a 50% up in the day. And that's crazy how things have kind of settled down now. But we're gone of the days of the insane like mega pumps that would happen over 24 hours. It's such a sign of acceptance of a major institution, not only of Bitcoin and the idea of cryptocurrency, but even the idea of altcoins and trying out projects and things that might not even work getting their own ETF. There's still chance though, I haven't heard anyone say ripple or hex. Daniel, do you have an altcoin ETF you're looking forward to? Well, I mean, I wouldn't say I'm looking forward to it, but yeah, there's, I think Salana and Cardano are probably going to be easy picks for an ETF. And I'm also thinking they might just end up doing a basket ETF with multiple tokens, because why not? Right? If you want a shit coin, you got to do it all. Just do it all. Throw them all in together. That's like, yeah, that's good. That's good. Because that's quite good. Yeah, that would be like the NASDAQ or something. I could imagine something like that happening as well, that kind of makes sense. But it's kind of, it's good that the SEC has to like reveal these things because it starts to understand the differentiation between Bitcoin and the shit coins and things like Salana. So hopefully they'll learn from that process. It's citadel, sorry, it wasn't fidelity. It was citadel that they've got an EDX with this kind of, well, they have potential EDX going to this Bitcoin Ethereum Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash, which is quite random for those. But what is funny is that some random person registered the I shares XRP trust in Delaware and then tried to attribute it to Blackwark who turned around and went, no, it's nothing to do with us, you crazy sausages. So even like, you know, the ripple shell army is still going for it, right? But we will, they're crazy, little dirty tricks trying to pull off these, these moves. Oh, that must be very sad being an XRP, old, don't really must. Well, I think there's a lot of people with some very heavy bags who will be happy to see any of these things take off because, you know, what do they say, a rising tie lifts all boats, well, in this case, you know, I think the market will come back because people will try to fomo into something, hey, Bitcoin's too expensive. Just buy one of these microcaps, you know, the same way you would maybe with penny stocks. I think it's just a, again, it's like human psychology. People always look at price and that's the main thing that excites them. It's the power of lobbying as well, like all that value and capital, which you can use for lobbying to try and get your ETF through some like salon or the golem money to throw it out. They're the ones by the way who offer to buy NOS.com and I said no. So. And again, just how far we've gone that they could be offering these ETFs and there's a real possibility that all the lobbying we did for the Bitcoin ETF turns out to everybody else showing up as if they ran the marathon by getting on a subway car and driving right to the end of the race and popping up. Here we are. Here we are. Josh, Shagalla, what do you think about altcoin ETFs? Will there be a dogecoin ETF pressure is on? I don't know about dogecoin, but I'm absolutely there's going to be all kind of ETFs. There it is. Why not? And what do you think about the price of Bitcoin almost hitting 38K and the perhaps a perfect storm next year with an ETF approval followed by the havining? Oh, yeah, the havinings sort of massive. I think this this year is going to be obviously one of the largest, largest bull markets that we've seen because it just is every time. It's up longer, longer weight period or consolidation higher, even longer consolidation. The consolidation always marks more than the hype, which sucks because then you, you know, these consolidation moments. We make the industry suffer. Even though there's a lot of time to build and work on your products, the lot of the market don't deal stuff, but that just shows how early this industry is. And one thing that I've had to reflect on quite a lot is the market cycles, which the Austrians constantly blamed the Chicago school or other schools of thought of, we definitely see these bourbon bus cycles happening in Bitcoin, which follows a very, very strong Austrian economical theory. So it's interesting. I find that very, very interesting. Yeah, this cycle, I think, hopefully what will happen is that the DeFi space will have brought a lot more of the decentralized stability, whether it's on Bitcoin or it's on some of the, or it's on an Ethereum chain. But I feel that stability really is the key and usability. And I feel that the framework for my friendliness has to be there for the next billion users, otherwise it's just not going to happen that people just get annoyed with it. Like they have already, they have already because they get scammed or they screw it up and then they don't come back. No, they tell their friends not to come back. That's awful. But we do, I don't want to get into situation where we're using crypto because CBDCs are so awful. Like I'd rather use crypto because it's so awesome. And, you know, but either way, crypto wins. We could always wait. Maybe both will be true. Meanwhile, the big bad wolf, Mike Belchi says the SEC could reject ETF applications until the exchanges and custody are separate right now. Most of the ETFs depend on coin base for the custody and coin base for the exchange. Ben arc forced prediction, pick a month. When will the Bitcoin ETF be approved? And everyone can play along in the chat or the comments of the home game. Let us know your month. It could even be this year, November, December or a month next year or even further on Ben arc forced prediction. I mean, it's a good excuse. I mean, they need stages one excuses to not allow ETF and that is a good excuse. Oh, I want it to be December. Well, no, I want it to be January, but I kind of feel that it could be December. I don't know. I feel like it's happening any moment. So yeah, I'm going to go with January, January, January, January. Of course, the Bitcoin happening now looking like April 23rd. Then Eve pick a month. So yeah, I'm actually going for the fact that although BlackRock have got a 99.8% success rate, Bitcoin ETFs, spot ETFs have had a 100% rejection rate. So maybe BlackRock just get a kickback, you know, they get kicked back just once. And then there's this, this, again, I'll go for this whole utility is perfect storm where the ETF actually, the spot ETFs just get approved in April when the harvining happens. And then there's just this, that would be cool for an insane megapub. I don't think it will happen, but that would be that would be my, my wish. But they make a good point right. So it's separating custody and exchange and having one company that pretty much controls like so much cryptocurrency when, you know, they have reasons before market manipulation and lack of customer protection. But this one's actually, I think, a valid reason about separating already an apologist for the SEC. It's like he's rooting for the Z. Daniel, pick a month. Will we see the April mega fell face melting camera candle, sorry. I hate making these kinds of predictions. But what I can predict, you know, is we, I think we all know the price is just going to begin rising and continue rising. What we're, you know, over 150% ups since last year, we'll keep going as we get closer to the harvining. Maybe we'll see some dips between now and then. But as the media begins to talk more about Bitcoin, which it always does during these cycles, having will start to become more, I think, prominent in people's minds. There's going to be a lot of customers, potential customers who are going to be screaming that they don't have access to this ETF. And at some point, it'll be so loud that I think even the SEC won't be able to resist. So I'll say February, I hope it doesn't take longer than that, but it could. If it goes past the having, by the way, that's kind of, I mean, bad for BlackRock and bad for all the ETFs because it'll mean they'll have much less access to fresh Bitcoin coming out of these of miners. There's just going to be lots of money. That's what I'm quietly rooting for. I know that they're smarter than us and they'll buy beforehand anyway, but wouldn't it be great if we have the supply go down and then the ETF managers are given the go ahead to start buying their coins because of blah, blah, blah, regulation, whatever. And they couldn't do it at the right time and they're forced to do it at the wrong time. That's what I want. Josh Shagalla, I've heard January, February, April, the month of the havining, tell us when will the SEC approve a Bitcoin ETF or never? Suspense as Josh is muted. Sorry, I can't tell you when, but I can, I can say this. BlackRock understand, just like, just like Peter Schiff understands, just like Jamie Diamond understands that Bitcoin is an unregulated space. The ETF is regulated to all hell. But the underlying asset isn't so it's massively manipulatable. So if this ETF is coming, there's going to be a whole lot of fun just before it. So they can, or maybe not even just before it. So they can stack their bags. And so that's what I'm waiting for for reentry points. I'm waiting for bad news coming out of everywhere and Bitcoin's dead and whatever other excuses China's banning Bitcoin or all of these sorts of things that will happen. And then the ETF will kick in and then we'll see the face melt candle. The answer is January. Yes, January, it's cold, it's dark, it's gray. You want to roll these kind of things out once per quarter. So we'll have the have it, we'll have the have it in April, second quarter, we'll have the ETF in January. Moving on to issue two Bitcoin ordinals startup taproot wizards ways raises $7.5 million in a seed round. I don't know how, but taproot wizards raised $7.5 million to do what everyone else is doing, but now to do it on Bitcoin. Dan, Eve, what do you think about NFT projects in this age? And especially NFT projects on Bitcoin suddenly raising millions of dollars. Actually, even the amount is quite small for a project that is on Bitcoin. I'm surprised it didn't raise more. They've generated quite a lot of hype and ordinals putting, and NFT is actually inscribing them on Bitcoin rather than being kind of reference, like some of the NFTs are things a big positive. And certainly in terms of how an NFT functions, right, and then in terms of ownership. I think that's kind of a cool thing. But they obviously just create a lot of hype in terms of general and consumption of Bitcoin. Block space we're seeing, I don't know if it's entirely related, but there's like, there was 350,000 I think pending transactions. It's around about 230,000 now. Fees are about 10 bucks a transaction on Bitcoin. So they've obviously generated a bunch of hype around using Bitcoin's block chain space, which is we know is so sacred. But that's just another project. There's plenty of other ordinals projects that I think have even raised more than that. So considering how much it's been hyped with these wizard parties and crazy things going on, I do think that's quite low. But Bitcoin will keep on pumping. And I was looking at the stats earlier about the difficulties just reached again. It's like another, another also I'm high 64.6 trillion. And this time two years ago it was 20 trillion. And the hash rate is, I think it peaked over 500x, the hash is about 478, which again is two years ago, is 150. So there's going to be a lot more competition for block space as things go on. These miners need an incentive to keep mining once the block reward goes down. So this is kind of good for the miners to help subsidize them when the block reward does drop. So wouldn't be surprised if there's some miners who are into these ordinals because they're creating demand for block space and therefore pumping their own bags, pumping them when the half-ning comes in the block reward jobs. You kids and your ordinals and your wizard parties filling up the block space. You know, back in my day, I tried to make NFTs. I couldn't raise any money. We even lost money. Daniel, what do you think about NFTs on the blockchain, especially the Bitcoin block? Well, you know, I'm still underwater on the only NFT I ever own, which is of course yours. Yeah, I'm going to hold that one forever. Josh is underwater on that. I don't know. I mean, I don't obviously know my feelings about NFTs. I never really understood the whole point of it. But what I do see is what's happening on chain. And I see mempool fees just going through the roof again. We had earlier this year, we were at like 600. That's per V by one point. Now we're in the 200 range. I have a channel close on my lightning node that has been gone through. It's been broadcasted at 30 sats. I don't know if I'm ever going to see it. Like, that's the thing is there's all this vandalism being done on the blockchain that doesn't need to be there. And so, who's it hurting? It's hurting people who actually need to use Bitcoin for economic reasons, not just shits and giggles. So, to me, I don't see the point. People want to make a lot of money. They want to pump money into miners hands. Sure, go ahead. Do that. You know, we'll still be here when you're done. It's like that putting too much spray paint on the subway trains and it's slowing them down. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about NFTs now on Bitcoin? And of course, you also lost on the Mad BTC. I do. I love the Mad BTC. It's hard though, even though I've lost on it. It is my only NFT. But actually, we minted some NFTs over at the standard as well. It's fun. Yeah, NFTs are fun fascinating because of I don't get it. Like just... Josh, I think you muted yourself. Yeah, so many people do get it. I don't get it yet. So many people do. And that's what I find fascinating. Why? Why don't I understand it? Why? Why is it... And then when I look at the history of collectibles and how money laundering works, then I do get it because you can easily create an artwork that's valued at the fuck all. And then pump it to a whole community that it's worth a lot more. But you can do that with coins as well because coins effectively are an NFT. It's a meme coin, especially. They're just... it's a picture of a graphic on the coin, which is referenced by an API on CoinMarketCap or something like that and propagated across the networks. So yeah, I see a lot of these use cases. And so maybe going back to your original question is, will we see an altcoin ETFs? Will we see wizard ETFs? Who knows? I think it's a liquidity question at the end of day. Will enough people really find this interesting? But I don't understand why these guys raised 7.1 million. There's some really... I've run some really, really interesting projects that have true capability and a great team and struggle to raise. Absolutely struggle to raise. And I just think this is typical... this is typical VC stuff where you get VC money if you know the VC well. So it's so nepotistic the whole VC world. You have to have a warm intro and you have to have this and you have to be known or you have to you know, have already given a blowjob or whatever it is that these people want. It's awful. Like the whole VC space is awful. And this is why I actually think the ICOs were were a fresh idea to raise capital for projects. Even though the vast majority was scams, I thought it was a nice mechanism where people could offer incentives to be part of a project outside of the VC space. The problem was the VCs took over and and and then bought all these early and made all these deals and then dumped it all on retail. So you know, there goes that great idea. But fundamentally I thought it was nice. I've forgotten the original question. Sorry, I just sort of rambled on about that. But yeah, that's my I think the media doesn't understand collectibles either Josh as you're having a hard time seeing it because they can be so valuable one minute and so worthless the next. Collect just commonly something that you know, it's worth as much as the next guy will pay you for it. Like you can put the price on the market $10,000 for the beanie baby. But unless you actually have the guy lined up who's going to give you that money, it doesn't materialize. I do think that something about the NFTs, of course, the digital nature of them, the way that they're born online, they exist online, they're kind of better collectibles than a physical beanie baby, the ability to send one to another country like that to receive the money through a cryptocurrency like an escrow, like a locked exchange. You can do that with a physical object. So in that way, as well as, you know, verifying the authenticity of the NFT, the digital collectible, even if it's just a series of numbers, doesn't even have any art attached, is a better collectible than any physical collectible could ever be. But interestingly, what I find absolutely fascinating is that the gaming industry or the gaming user landscape has absolutely wholeheartedly rejected NFTs. Whenever you bring up NFT in a game, they come with their pitchforks and fundamentally rejected. Even though they'll have a centralized marketplace by the game developer that will be absolutely raping these people for their money for some stupid skins, they still reject the idea of an NFT, which is weird because this is something I do get yet the market doesn't get. There's the other way around. I'm like, oh, that's the perfect use case for these NFTs in game items because now you can, you know, I have third party markets. Not market absolutely rejects it. It's almost culturally rejected. So it's it maybe it'll come in in the future, but it'll take a long time to turn that market from just anytime the word NFT. Maybe it's about actually changing the word NFT. That's that's a typical thing to do in marketing is just change the word and people go, oh, that's great. That's a lot of that one. I do I do think they're going to have to do that. But with the gamers, the pessimism, I think it comes from all these free-to-play games and buying all of these add-ons and buying all of these skins. And I think they have the idea in their head that they're going to have to pay $10,000 if they want to dress like Batman. I don't think they have the idea where they're going to buy the Batman skin for 50 cents. And in three years, it's going to be worth $10,000. And I think they're also afraid of that idea as well because anything they get priced out of these higher markets. Go ahead, Ben. They they they don't want secondary unregulated markets for in-game items. It happened like years ago with Ultraman line, a bunch of other big games where you could earn you could like, you know, farm, you could get your character up and you could you could get all these items and then you could sell them on the secretary on unregulated markets. And then what you're under with is the sweatshops with a bunch of kids grinding in some back backwards, you know, third world country for for these in-game items. So it's just it's really bad press. So they just they just want to avoid it. It's it's like this totally value for scarcity, digital scarcity beyond just value transfer. Because obviously, scarcity is a very important part to how we value everything in our real world. So it makes perfect sense that we need digital scarcity for things beyond just value transfer. And that is, you know, having non-fungible tokens, commodity items, which you can you can trade in a digital space. So I think NFTs and ordinals, I think is all really important work. And although it's a bit.comy currently and you know, like people are still trying to find a use case for it and you end up with all these stupid art projects like Josh said, which probably is for eventually like there will be some good users which come out of it. Eventually some games will figure out a way of somehow being able to have items which people can actually own outside of the game and have ownership over and know that the game the game producer can't produce more of those items and it can have scarcity and it can have value. But the real worry is it's just kids like grinding to get things to value and then selling them on regulated markets. But I think like the current volume on Bitcoin is trading. It's not ordinals. There's a lot of trading going on. So what we're going to do, we're going to like stop people from trading Bitcoin. I think like none of us can say how people use block space. Like if you can use it and you can use it for your thing, use it for your thing. And it's a good thing that we have high fees. It's a good thing that we have a busy blocks because Bitcoin has this like unrealistic idea of Bitcoin that because it works for me right now that it's perfect and we don't need to improve scaling and we don't need to work on any of the things. It's not until we have high fees that people actually start addressing scaling properly. In the last, when we did have that ordinary wave, there's a lot of good work done on liquid and people find using liquid to try and scale. And that's carried on now. There's ways in which you can use liquid to like with using bolts and swapping the ways in which you can balance channels using liquid now. It's a lot cheaper than yeah. So it's something I want to say, I want to see busy blocks and I want to see people having to actually address scaling Bitcoin. And if it be through weird crap art, then fair enough, or if it be through trading volume and fair enough, and I think eventually we will end up with a whole bunch of things on Bitcoin because you need scarcity. We need it in our digital world just so much we need in our real world. It was one of the things back in the early days that really fascinated me was the conversation on Bitcoin talk about what is spam. Back when first someone said this is spam, when we were talking about Eric War, he says Satoshi dies game where people were bitching and moaning because people were just spamming the network with Sats. And it is a fascinating conversation. What is spam? Daniel mentioned it really well about saying it's graffiti and stuff and I could totally resonate with that too. I understand that but they paid the fee. They paid the fee and so who might have said that it shouldn't be on there and then you get people like Luke Dash Jr. who just want to ban it by technology, technologically banning it. But yeah, anyway, interesting. I do agree with Ben that things only get fixed once they're exposed. If you look at the privacy situation on Bitcoin right now, it's so bad that major terrorist groups are rejecting Bitcoin and refusing to use it. Obviously it needs to be fixed. Let's move on to the exit question predicting against the magic eight ball the source of all truth and knowledge, most financial firms and large hedge funds use a magic eight ball for their decisions. Dan Eve will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I'm still optimistic. Hi, Hi. Daniel higher or lower? You know, I have to say higher. It's going up forever. So that's my pick. Josh, she got its only positivity today. Higher or lower? Higher, baby. Ben Ark? Love much lower. There's always one and now the magic eight ball, it doesn't often answer. Sometimes it says no. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Very doubtful. Very doubtful. The magic eight ball is pessimistic in spite of all your optimism. That's what it thinks. That's what it thinks of your optimism. In your face. Ben is correct. Moving on to issue three, FTX gets a $1.8 billion boost from soaring, Salana and Bitcoin, easing the path to full customer payouts. It's almost like the producers, a self-making scam. Number one, I make a Bitcoin exchange. Number two, I mismanage it. Number three, I owe you money, but it can just wait until the price of Bitcoin equals the amount of money that I owe you. I could never lose. Daniel, what do you think about FTX? If no one lost any money, is there even a crime? Should we just let SBF go? The people get their money back now. I mean, I was saying the same thing about Gemini and Gemini Earn and Genesis. They're just going to drag this out as long as they can until the market conditions allow them to sell more and pay off their customers. I think it's the same thing. You remember when I forget the name the N-RON guy came in and took over FTX after SBF was out. He said, this is the worst managed company I've ever seen in my entire career. For them to go through and the process of trying to do right by the remaining customers, I think is important. It shows that there are some responsible people still left in this world in this industry. I would love to see just like it, maybe it takes a while. It won't take as long as Mt. Godds. Isn't that still going on 10 years later? Still going, still going. It's a way of a method of worse hodling. I think the big question was, are they going to pay it back at the price when they crashed, when they lost everything, or are they going to pay it back at current market rates? That's part of my brilliant producers scam here is that I freeze it when the exchange crashes, which is a part of our plan. I freeze the price and then I wait until it goes up and that's when I pay you back. It's going to work. Josh Shagalla, are you buying? Is there no more crime? FTX is just going to make the money back. That's precisely right. They freeze the funds. You can say freeze it or you can say we pay back in the fee out value instead of the Bitcoin. Mt. Godds, interestingly, we've been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and then the lawyers or the liquidators say the payout has been delayed and everyone's like, what? Okay, how long? For how long? Another year. It's not just a month because there's a few little things that dots and teas have got across. No, it's a year and you know what's happening in the background is that the lawyers are just eating. They're basically living off these funds now and so it plays this race condition almost where they just continue eating so they don't want to stop, I don't know if it's even called a race condition, but it's kind of like this. This bad game theoretical mechanism of liquidation where these people can just keep on living because Bitcoin keeps on going up so they'll just keep on charging and by the way, our fees have gone up to this year. It sounds like a hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy type company. Originally, the firm started out doing law work, but eventually we just live off the Bitcoin from the Mt. Godds crap crisis. We just keep living off it and we can't lose. It's almost as if you could make more money with a flop than with a hit. Ben Arck, what do you think? Should we start a new Bitcoin exchange intending to fail and just pay back the money later when the price of Bitcoin rises enough to cover up any of our mistakes? Yeah, typical weird Bitcoin land isn't it? Well, these weird scenarios happen because of volatility at the price. Yeah, it's totally a whole new industry for this, for this career, for this company and the people who are working on liquidating FTX just as it was with Mt. Godds. Every time one of these events happens, there's this big fat pie and then you'll look at it and say, okay, how are we going to divide this thing up? How are we going to take a big facelice? Every time anything happens, someone dies and leaves a bunch of stuff and has to go through propagators and some company goes under and everyone gets their slice of the pie and the trick is for them is just getting as much money in their own pockets as they can possibly get. So yeah, we're going to see more of that and it's going to be delayed on the FTX and it doesn't really matter that the Bitcoin price is going to go up just like with Mt. Godds as well. It's fairly sad but it's also a good reason why you should never keep money on an exchange and yeah. It's sad. It's like tearing down the family farm of FTX and the same like Josh just quickly add. The thing is it's on Solana and so you know basically what they're doing is they're transferring the loss from the VCs that invested in FTX to the bag holders that are getting shield Solana right now and so that's what's terrible about this sort of this sort of recovery is like you're just going to outsource that to the Solana hypers. I don't know what we have to do. Do we have with Mt. Godds as well? Look, that lawyer started selling off Bitcoin and he just started dumping the price because he wasn't that was Mt. Godds. That's Mt. Godds. That was like the Japanese lawyer. They started dumping Bitcoin. They keep saying that the Mt. Godds payouts going to happen and they keep being afraid that the people being burned by Bitcoin so bad will all sell immediately and that they'll be a run. But the payouts never seem to happen because they're still fighting with that one guy who has the claim on it who has a counter claim. In the same way, these payouts may never happen as well with the IRS claiming that they should take all their money first. So I think Josh, the real sad part about this is if you were at home with your FTX coupons and you think you're going to win big money. This is like a football game and your team has gone ahead. But it's only half time and there's no way you can push sell right now. If you think Solana is at a high, if you think it's legit, if you think it's not legit, those are everyone's choices. Those are your options here and you have no power. You can't say like sell my portion of the bankruptcy proceedings. Like get my money out of there now. It's not an option. So Dan Eve, it's all a matter of timing. Will FTX get away with the ultimate crime of paying everyone back? Well, I mean, I saw someone tweet about it. Like they said, man, if only if only SPF had held on, like, you know, this is he wasn't uncovered for another 18 months and, you know, then he might have actually gotten away with it. Because, you know, things are starting to pump and maybe maybe some of it's off the back of first, you know, the fact that the publicity of it all on the fact that there's, you know, potential buyers of the exchange and stuff that had rumours for, you know, even if FTX is up 300% in like a week or something crazy, I think it might even be days. So there's obviously, you know, there's the hype around it. But I think as Josh is saying, this is just the transfer of funds or transfer of fudge, really, from the clever people to the suckers that are getting re-ordered in. I want to say that maybe it's going to end up happy days. And they, you know, the people get their money back. Well, obviously they'll be like once, bitten twice shy, right? They'll learn their lesson now once they get their compensation back, take it right off FTX, never put it on an exchange again. And only when it's, you know, extreme circumstances where you need to sell and then just use, you know, self-custody. And this is a, this is one big advert for self-custody, right? Every exchange going down is a big advert for self-custody. But the other interesting thing about the article is, you know, will the IRS just soak up this money and say, well, you are, you are 44 billion dollars in tax. Or will they do the honorable thing, right? And let people have money back who have lost money. You know, what are the, what are the IRS going to treat this, this deficit of FTX? Yeah, time, time will tell. I'm sure no one would speak ill of the IRS on this panel. But I agree, Dan, I think the Sam Bankman Fried should have held. He should have had a hard face. And he should have said, everyone will get paid back. We have all the money because no one can disprove that. His books are such a mess. Like Daniel said, the Enron guy comes in says, what an awful mess of a company. And even now with these investments in Bitcoin, Solana, maybe even the AI program chat GPT, what if that goes to the moon and FTX, it turns out how to small piece of that. Yes, it's amazing. And that's the beauty of my scheme. As soon as I can lock you into a fiat return and I get to hold crypto, I can pay back any debt that I've run up. Maybe even I could build 50s with Sonyans and 50 states. But moving on, check out worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got 3,258 videos. You could watch them for three months, 17 days and seven hours without taking a break. You wouldn't even have to sleep. Issue four, Ferrari accepts Bitcoin. Yes, everyone wanted Lamborghinis, but you're getting Ferraris. Josh Jagala, we haven't had a nice luxury brand accepting Bitcoin in a while. And now we have Bitcoin Ferraris. Are these good enough? Or do you still pine for Lambos? Well, actually the Lamborghinis originally came from the East space. So it's not so maybe Bitcoin can have Ferrari. So let's see. Let's see. I love these celebrations. It brings me back to the old days where you can celebrate when a new shop accepts. You think when Roger Burr managed to get some fricking petrol station to accept a Caescius coin or whatever. I love those days. We can celebrate a new shop. Now, nowadays, Amazon accepts it. We're like, oh, ETF. When's the ETF? So I like this. This is great. It is exciting that it's an entire company basis, not just one guy going down to the dealership and talking them into it the same way that the bar accepts Bitcoin because Jimmy paid them that one time. Ben, can I get you a Ferrari? How's that sound? It's a nice way for companies, small companies and big companies to diversify the holdings in their portfolios just to accept Bitcoin. They're not going to sell that many cards for Bitcoin. And by doing it, they probably want a little bit of Bitcoin in their portfolio. They want a diversify the portfolio in this few percent. I think it's wise. It's good to see bigger players because that's always yourself for me, you know, from on board like a cafe or a bar or something, I'm like, okay, it probably makes sense. You have a little bit of Bitcoin and an accepted Bitcoin is one of the easiest ways to do it and it keeps you like some Bitcoin slowly. It won't be loads, but it'll be a little bit. And often, you know, like whoever owns that bar, cafes, a business person, and they want diverse assets and they're often quite receptive to it. So I imagine it's the same when it comes to these bigger companies as well. But yeah, I mean, it's great. And like something to be celebrated and hopefully some other companies will follow suit. Dan Eave, they have fast cars, but they don't even drive themselves. Should we be excited about Ferrari? Right, you know, we've had the Lambo mean for so long. I kind of like Ferrari's, right? So I think Josh got a good point. You know, Ethereum kind of kicked off the Lambo thing. So Bitcoin's got the Ferrari thing. Obviously, for a short while, there was the Tesla thing. And we've still seen, you know, no movement from Tesla on accepting Bitcoin again. I'm surprised more companies haven't capitalized on it, even if they don't believe in Bitcoin as an asset and as real money that they didn't kind of haven't capitalized on the fact that people suddenly got really rich and have this money to burn and been like, okay, we'll take real exceptional Bitcoin, even though they burn it straight away and sell it on an exchange for an inflated rate or whatever. And except for inflated rates, they can sell it and get their fair price for their for the car. So I'm surprised there. We haven't seen more of that. But it's great when an actual existing big, huge, you know, company that makes beautiful cars or something, you know, except Bitcoin. And yeah, going back to the other, as Josh said, like the days when, you know, a coffee shop would accept Bitcoin and everyone would be like cheering about it. And you know, yeah, it's really, oh my god, yeah. Marge is fruit and veg now, except Bitcoin. And we're like one step closer to world domination. This is incredible. Everyone, you know, the 2013 buzz of getting all these tiny little like shops loaded up. So I think it's cool, especially when a, when a big company doesn't. Daniel, you've been hodling a long time. Is it tried to, time to trade in those Bitcoin for a nice bright red Ferrari? Maybe with a custom plate that says, HODL DOG on the back. So when I saw the headline, I was like, we really have to talk about this again. But as you know, as many of you know, a true humble Bitcoin stacking club drives a 1992 to a camera. And it's not concerned with Ferrari's or Lambos or any of that. Yeah, I mean, like with Ben said, I think maybe, you know, you'll get a few people who might, you know, want to trade in a little bit and upgrade their ride. Sure, why not? It's good marketing, bring his attention. But it's not going to move the needle Bitcoin or for Ferrari very much. But you know, what is going to do it is like, if I can go down to Pubkey in Lormen Hatten and buy a beer and I can, you know, pay for someone else's coffee over the lightning network in Guatemala. Like those are the things that I am excited by the ability to actually use Bitcoin day to day and not, you know, sell your stack to buy a car, which is, you know, ultimately, an appreciating asset. I mean, sure, you could start a business and like rent them out on Turo or something. But, you know, who's going to be buying all those for our is with Bitcoin? I don't see it. I don't see that many people being swayed by clever marketing tactic. Oh, Daniel's getting deep here. Fast cars do not make one great. Josh, Shagalla, how do you flex for people who don't flex? Exit question, what will the Bitcoiners be showing off in the future? If it's not for Raris, are they going to get rings that say like, whole coin or like tattoos that say like HOLE coin? Well, Bitcoin has become clever over the years. They try to disguise the fact that they have Bitcoin in the early days we shot and now, now, and then, Shane analysis came out and everyone's maybe we should just be a bit more quiet. No, I don't know. Maybe it's, yeah, maybe it's, you've got to look out for those people with an old beat up you with a dog in the back. That's where the other people you've got to watch out for. The farmers. That's what Vaughnick had always said about the Jesus story. He always said it was written wrong. Guy comes down and says, I'm connected to God. You better listen to me and they stick him up and it goes badly. What if the guy came down and he was unconnected and then God gets mad at you? It's a much better story that way. Ben Ark, are you going to buy a Ferrari? What are you going to do with the Bitcoin and the future? I mean, I just made this stuff. I don't know any Bitcoin obviously. But the horrible boating accident, yes. No, I'm no one ever owned it, you know. But the, I'm not sure what I was going to say. What was the question? I don't know. I've been about with it. How we're big. My wife's going to show off. All right. Yeah. Well, there's this for people in the don't flex, especially when we have this example in the community where SPF famously, we now know traded in their luxury leases to get a crappy car. Purposely wore cargo shorts purposely. Boris Johnson's hair so that people would think him a fool and also, you know, poor, crazy. Yeah. That they do bet with that still popular. So people will accumulate Bitcoin and then it'll go up from price and then they'll be like, oh, cool. I can retire. I can buy a house now and I can, and then people start spending like with wealth. You start with people accumulate huge wealth in the past. There's some, you know, they were privy to some backdoor access to be able to create huge wealth. They had some, some luck in the market or some inside and knowledge, although they just had the finger on the pole some of they created huge wealth and people spent their money on shit. And although for a while people would drive around in a, you know, Suzuki wagon are they'll go out and buy some fancy shamancy cars at some point and a big fancy house. And then they'll gambler all the way and put up the nose and then they'll be poor again. Because that's what happens when people get some sort of Russian or their kids or their kids do it. Or your way would generate exactly their generation. Yeah, that's the first generation, the lazy box. I don't have to rate Richard prior film. And of course, it's based on an 18th century book that I also read called Brewsters Millions. And part of the way that the guy gets his inheritance is that he has to waste millions of dollars. He has to spend money and get nothing back for it so that he will be exhausted of spending and will be tired of it. And in the same way, I think these Bitcoiners who are essentially punished every time they spend every time you buy that house, you look back and you're like, I could have gotten 10 houses for that house. I could have gotten five cars for that car. It punishes you each time you spend almost as if it's not a good thing is all like the monkey's paw like you've been cursed, but you get wishes. Dan E we still we still we still we're still knowing incredibly wealthy Bitcoiners who you know, had that theology, but eventually just ended up spending all that Bitcoin. Right. We know a bunch of them. So human beings. Even how thinny and his family like the original OG Bitcoiners had a huge stack. And from what I heard, it's gone. And they didn't huddle and the same thing for a lot of the early players, Adam back and so forth, could have bought hundreds of thousands, you know, ended up buying nothing like it's a big. That's the biggest example I've seen of that recently is I've been hanging out with Marty Malmy in Nostraja and Bunch and Nostra thinks he built Iris. And he's the second person to contribute to Bitcoin. Evan who's mining Bitcoin alongside the Tosh in half inning had literally tens of thousands of Bitcoin. Who would be like a multi multi multi multi billionaire now? If he if he if he kept his, but I mean, you know, he wanted to buy a flight bought a flight and he you know, for a few hundred thousand Bitcoin and he bought this for this for this for this. And now he's just a normal person with, you know, so whenever I feel bad about that, the few hundreds of thousands of thousands of Toshis I spent on a beer, I think back to that dude and think, well, you know, I could be Marty Malmy. Well, yeah, big shout to Marty Malmy though. Amazing that he's back in in our space and building things and he's did a great work with Iris on Nostra. But yeah, it's a really interesting story. I heard that talking Nostraja and it blew me away. He's such a like approachable warm smart guy and it's wonderful to have him in the space. Yes. On can be difficult even psychologically damaging to have that wealth and then to have f'ded up and I think everybody's done it at this point or another point, maybe not for that much. But the same thing with my producers scam holds true here as well. One day you'll regret the Bitcoin you spent. It's like an ancient Chinese curse. Dan Eve, what are the Bitcoiners going to flex in the future if they don't want to flex? Oh, well, that's going to say something stupid like proving their net worth. But then that would just be stupid because they're leaving themselves open to attack. And I think I read recently that there's in Sweden, there's been a spate of like Bitcoiners that have been targeted because they've been and it's happened before, right? There's been multiple instances where people have been kidnapped of their assets for. So I think there was a guy and there wasn't a guy in Russia that got it really bad. He was either killed or something crazy. So yes, it's obviously obvious that you need to be discreet. But the difference is between Bitcoin and being rich with other assets because you could just rock up right to somebody who's got a huge mansion and put a gun to their head, but you've got to get their assets out from a bank in some way. And there's all sorts of complications with that. Whereas with Bitcoin, once that Bitcoin's in your hands, like there's nothing you can do about it. And you could trace it and stuff and you can you know, you can find out where that person spent or move the funds whether they liked it in a mixer and coin join and whatever. But it's a thousand times harder than they're actually, you know, getting back assets that have, you know, done viral as some form of banking scheme, I think. So it means that people are a lot more open to being screwed over and being targeted. So you just need to be discreet if if you do have Bitcoin, I don't have Bitcoin. I have nothing. Obviously. But yeah, no, like it's really bad. You know, even even I even think when I go to a conference, I'm like, oh, you know, well, when I leave the conference, I'm like, oh, I better not wear a Bitcoin thing on the way home. Just in case someone mugs me thinking, I do have Bitcoin because I do have crypto that they can kind of surprise from my hands, but I actually don't. So like it's a scary, it's a scary thing. Even if you don't have the assets that you could be targeted, because even if it's like, for example, someone said, you've got like $100 on your ledger and you're like, oh, you know, you give them $100 and they're like, oh, but you must have a secret passphrase for it. And you're like, what, how do you prove you don't have a secret passphrase, you know? And that, you know, that could get you into a lot of trouble. So it's best people just not not not knowing and being discreet about it, right? Well, and think how much that $100 could be worth in the future. You could pay everyone off with that. But I also think Dan, it's uniquely damaging to early libertarian Bitcoiners who maybe don't want to show the government their full cards and don't trust a bank or a safe deposit box and could end up in this kind of situation you're talking about where people just start rolling up on rich Bitcoin houses in New Hampshire and, you know, shaking down their wallets. But it's still not too late to get that whole corner Bitcoin necklace and to roll out to all the clubs and show the ladies how much coin you made back in the day. Daniel, how are people going to flex their Bitcoin wealth when no one wants to flex their Bitcoin wealth? They're going to flex their end club that they created in 2023. Just proved that they were there on NOSTER. And that is more important than Bitcoin wealth. Old signatures, just another Brad, like Ben says, if you don't have one of those little boxes and you log into the wrong place with your NOSTER key, they could take away your whole social media empire there. So I got to have a NOSTER signing box. But yes, old signatures are cool. But as I've as I can tell you guys, I've been at that financial conference in Frankfurt or something and you tell people, well, I'm a Bitcoiner from 2013 and they're like, you must be so rich. And then they don't believe you that you had no money because they have never experienced having no money. What do you mean you don't have hundreds of that wide-ing? You just use the money and your stock market account to buy Bitcoin. Oh, you didn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars in your stock market account in 2013. What's wrong with you? Anyway, moving on to issue five, institutional custody of Bitcoin could kill it. Cautions are their haze. Haze warns that Bitcoin held by institutions such as ETFs or even Coinbase could kill the libertarian currency ideas of Bitcoin, leaving us worse off than we were before with a couple of giant institutions holding all of the Bitcoin in the world and the rest of us just sending back and forth database entries. Josh, Shagalla, what do you think about Arthur Haze's warning that the ETFs for as much as they could knock the price to the moon could lead to a situation where the institutions buy up all of the Bitcoin. They can't buy up all the Bitcoin. That's the point. But the moon has the moon. Are the Bitcoiners and the audience that like it won't get used. It won't get mine. Yeah. So I mean, it is there is an existential threat there slightly with with the fact that they they can pump and dump large vast amounts and such. But I think it's more of a threat to Ethereum because of their proof of stake architecture because once these large players collect enough, so the hope is that other countries will follow and also build ETFs so that then you have at least 10 or 20 different ETFs around the world that are buying. But everyone knows that there's always London on New York that and these places have the vast amounts of wealth. The other thing you have is governments printing money and seeking new printed value directly into this thing, buying up even more. But yeah, Ethereum has a larger problem with ETFs. I think the Bitcoin. Well, remember, the famous slogan of Pokemon, got to collect them all. Ben, ARC, are we in trouble? Are the ETFs secretly bad? This is why a good money is a commodity money. It has lots of different use cases such as shitty art because like the more use cases you have for this commodity, even if you're not using it as money, then the more distributed is across different industries, not only just being used for storing wealth or accumulating wealth. So more commodity use cases on Bitcoin. I think we spoke about it the last time. I think Dandas was the Holy Trinity. It was a poorer country building in CBDC on Bitcoin as an e-cash, federated e-cash on Bitcoin, like in our Salvador dollar. So I think Bitcoin being used in a whole bunch of interesting ways across industries will stop that type of stuff from happening. But yeah, I mean, like you should always cost a year own Bitcoin, of course. And we shouldn't, because I feel like sometimes we're lightning network because it's kind of hard to run and know to run that people have kind of given up on that idea that you should self-custody and you should run your own stuff. And they're now resigning to the fact that, oh, now maybe everything will be custodial, but we'd like more smart forms of custodial ship. There's definitely a place for that, but the goal always is self-custodial, self-custodial bear asset. And that's, we just need to make that as easy as possible across all the networks we should be using. And then distribute as much as possible by having lots of different commodity use cases. Remember the cloud is just someone else's computer. And the enemy of my enemy is my enemy. Dan Eve, we can't trust the ETS either. What if they buy all the coin? Well, the raises of good points about like the centralization and the fact that it kind of gives more, but it could lead to more state control, right? These existing institutions are intertwined with government. And so, you know, this is kind of gives them governments of more of a foot in the door to try and change things and influence things. And we all know how a kind of things seem to be allegedly, you know, paid pockets, paid pockets and cans, crossed palms, crossed with gold and all this. So, yeah, I think just from a centralization end of them. And Black Rocks venture into mining investment. And it just seems like there's an encroaching, it was going to happen like, but I don't think it would happen kind of this quickly actually that this the the encroachment of these big the biggest institutions. You think it would be the smaller ones going in first, but what we're kind of seeing is actually, Black Rock going in is the biggest. You would have thought that other other institutions would have aped in a bit sooner. So yeah, I don't think it's going to cause a lot of hype. There's going to be some good some good price movement because of it. I don't know how it could it could negatively impact the price that much though. I think more from a philosophical point of view that in a political point of view, there's there's more of a negative influence on Bitcoin. But from a price perspective, these guys just want to make huge amounts of money. And and they'll want to make that money with Bitcoin being successful and being big. So yeah, I think more from a from a, you know, pillars of Bitcoin perspective, things would be more negative, but price-wise, it's probably going to, you know, be quite good. And it gives that seal of approval, right? That Bitcoin is an asset that's worth creating back Black Rock being involved in. It's just a standard technology cycle. Inventors make something really cool. And then people come along and screw it up. Just happens with everything. Daniel, is this it? Are they going to screw Bitcoin up finally? I love I love all the articles that have been written over the years about this is going to kill Bitcoin. Bitcoin is dead. Like we've seen hundreds of times, 500 times already. This is going to be one of those ones we look back and laugh at in a few years. And I would I would start by asking the question like what other assets have been killed by creating an ETF? And you know, there's your evidence right there. Like it's a thriving market. People are investing. They're trading in. They're trading out. They're putting it in their pensions. They're putting it in their 401ks. Like this is something that's just going to become another commodity that people trade and use hopefully to supplement their retirement income and pension funds and things that are more stable than what we've seen in the past. And so you can't create more Bitcoin than already exists. You know, we've seen that tried and it always ends badly and at some point someone gets rubbed. And you have to show your holdings. And these companies are highly regulated. They're not going to be doing that. And if they do that, then you'll know at some point. So, you know, with 15% of the market actually being traded and the rest of it being hodled, I don't I just don't see how BlackRock or any collection of ETF companies could ever hold more than 50% of the supply. Like that just doesn't seem possible to me. So I don't see it happening. This just sounds like more uninformed journalism that we're so used to seeing in this industry. Yeah. I agree. I think it's much more a fear of an earlier age. If you look at it now, the idea of trying to get all the Bitcoin seems almost impossible. But it's a nice thing to worry about and to fear about. And it's important to take these institutions to account that they're they're here for their profit. They're not here for your revolution or any of the things that previously went on as we saw during the no 2x and other battles when they were willing to change how Bitcoin worked to ensure their profit. But let's move on to the predictions or story of the week. Ben, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. No, sorry. Wow. I've had something. Nothing really apart from this epic PRs in Alan Bitts, which we'll be merging soon. And I think we're coming out beat you soon because we have finally getting a login system, which is like our final thing we wanted to do before we came out. I'll be glad to be working on that. Yeah, just some epic work being done in that world. It's all been bubbling away. So but apart from that, no, not really. I think just trying to keep busy and build things. And I think that's the trick. It's just keep building things. And yeah, nothing, nothing juicy. Sorry. Dan Eave, prediction or a story of the week? Well, so something today that I just thought I'd mentioned that just really wow me out is that I went to go and download the Qt wallet from Bitcoin.org. And there's a stupid ass message on there that says I can't get it from the UK because of like Craig White's lawsuit I'm assuming, which is just so absurd. But any of you worse than that. Obviously last week I had a new friend, Larry. Larry's dead. Unfortunately, he didn't survive very long. Larry, Larry the pigeon. Yeah. I've been wanting to mean as well. He lived in the house and because it was nice and warm inside, but I think he succumbed to his injuries, the poor, the poor fella. So yeah, maybe I'll have more luck with the next pigeon, but yeah, man, I think it's just Barry Larry. If you're a pigeon that's damaged, just don't land near Dan. Yeah, no, just price. Well, I didn't technically. Barry wasn't my fault. It was some fricking magpies pecking his eyes out and stuff. So I'll even tell Hudson about about Larry because I thought, you know, I didn't adjust in case something crazy happened. Like you got eaten by a rat or something to create. Not what I have rats in my house, but yeah, things are a bit strange around here. So, but yeah, no, if you're a pigeon and you're in need of help, I'm still here for you. I'm just not very successful. Very dangerous rehabilitation program there. Daniel, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go. All right. Well, I had one and then one cross my wire while we were on this this call here. So, Stan Altman, the creator of WorldCoin and OpenAI has just been pushed out of the board. I have not read the whole article. I just saw the headline. So that was interesting. I think what I was going to talk about was just there's been an increase and we this is kind of referring back to what we were speaking about earlier. It's been an increase in attempted acts of people's cold storage. A lot more, you know, that people are moving to cold storage in self custody. A lot more scams are on the rise for things like blockstream Jade and Bitbox. People are getting emails to download software where they put in their private keys. So, always be extremely careful when you are operating your devices. Make sure you don't download anything you don't know where it came from and never enter your seed phrase into a computer ever for any reason. I know that's become standard practice with like the Ethereum and NFT people. They're just throwing their seed phrase in a hole in the internet and you know, there's met a mask. Like, it's kind of just very bad form to do that. So hopefully people will learn their lesson. But yeah, that was my story of the week and then my prediction is we're going to get you back on non-stereotypes and we have to do it. So welcome back. I can't even post on Twitter anymore. I'm still using the Twitter app with the bird icon that says Twitter and I'm pretty sure they don't want me to do that anymore. So my posts have been going automatically to draft. So I'm talking to myself and it's going real well. But no, I don't want to upgrade the X app so it gets all dark and exy. If we try not to get it out there, it's just whenever I go on Noster, all they talk about is Noster. So if we all kept our keys, we all we all went on Noster in 2021. I think you'll find on the show to remember when we were with the Noster Twitter client. But then we all instantly lost our keys. So that was that was that was sad. Definitely. He sent all those test messages in the early test clients and he didn't even save them just like Satoshi with his coins. Oops, spoiler. Not supposed to tell people. Josh, you got a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Well, the story of the week was that two weeks ago, we had a breach in the standard protocol, where it wasn't a technical one. It was the fact that it was an architectural one. So if for those that don't know the standard, I allows you to lock up Bitcoin in a smart contract and borrow against it. So you don't need to pay your capital gains tax and you borrow against it by minting your own stablecoin at zero percent interest. But the trick that what we make different is that people can swap, can trade, lock to collateral. So if you've got rap Bitcoin and you want to trade into tax gold, if the market turns sour, you can do that. And someone found a way to basically control a market of tax gold. Because it was really a liquid on on Arbitrum, which is an L2 for Ethereum. And they basically managed to mint a whole bunch of they put 10 Bitcoin into my into our smart contracts, which by the way, they have the keys to like you have your own key. So it didn't affect anybody else because everybody holds their own private keys. But they were able to mint a whole bunch of UOS and then drain the liquidity pool and then swap their lock collateral for tax gold. Anyway, we patched it. We managed to get hold of the attacker by on chain by sending in messages and appealing to his white hat. Probably his white hat pass. A lot of people don't know this. A lot of black hackers are actually old school white hat hackers who are discouraged and angry because the bounties are so you know, they'll find some huge bounty and get like 10 bucks back for it. And then they get sour and they all, well, next time I'm just going to take the money. So if you can, you know, they're not all just bad evil people, they just have been sourced. So that's what we appeal to. They returned most of it to us, the UOS that was minted. And then we burnt that and now we're back. It was actually really quick. I've got to put a big shout out there to Chainlink and to the Arbitrum guys as well as Gamma Protocol and Kamalot. They all jumped on phones. They all gave us great advice on how to how to negotiate this and what to do. And we were very transparent. It was very, it was kind of good that it happened now rather than in 10 months time when more people find out they can borrow at 0% interest on the Bitcoin. And there's a lot more value in the liquidity port. Like I said, it didn't, it never did affect or would ever affect people's collateral because they don't lock it up. This is the whole point. I just don't want, it's the whole point of building it. I don't want another, what were they called? These centralized places where you send your Bitcoin and you borrow against it. We got to use, we got to use technology to, you know, if you want that option. And so yeah, it's not your keys, not your crypto. And that's exactly what it was built. And that's why it's a few different. But yeah, the news is that everything went back to normal very quickly and it was a good practice in transparency and understanding how to deal with these sorts of things. And it gets, you know, it is hard building these contracts because they get so complex as Ben would know when you build a whole complex thing, someone will find something. It's always hard. You know, luckily we ran Voltaurif since 2014, which was a very niche centralized exchange trading between Bitcoin and physical code. And it had never had a breach, which, you know, we think our lucky stars, but also our technical expertise and our diligence in security on that. But sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And some guy knows it out there and takes advantage of it. So it's, it's that that's one big major major thing with this. And it's never going to be solved in crypto. You can, you can stay down to its primitive level at the primitive level. It has been solved, except for human subitity. So, you know, being able to write a see phrase, trusting the pure as close as you can get to the pure cryptography, you're not going to have a hacker. You'll have the wrench attack and that's bad. But, but the more you abstract away from that and allow some of these complex things, which are really useful, but they open up to attack surfaces. And that's just the nature of the beast. Well, and as you say, Josh, it isn't, isn't important when you're going to loan your money long term like that that you want to have a structure that you control rather than something like Celsius, where it just goes away overnight. So while it's bad, you guys have this one bad deal that goes wrong, the entire system can't just go away in the way that your funds at Celsius or Gemini or any of these other investing firms could have happened. Exactly. Exactly. Well, we've had some sad news this week here in Northern California, the major league baseball owners have voted unanimously to move the Oakland A's to a smaller market in Las Vegas. This is very disappointing for A's fans who staged a boycott reverse boycott this year selling out the Coliseum twice, even the giant stadium had sell chance throughout the league, not a single owner stood up with the Oakland A's. Of course, as you guys know, sports teams are not owned by the local municipalities despite carrying their name. So the Oakland athletics, although the Oakland did pay for half the stadium and the parking lot, all the roads and transit to get there, all the advertising and use of the name, they don't actually own the sports teams. These sports teams are owned by billionaires who then pit these cities against each other to get a better deal of free money so that they can build a stadium so they can then leave again to do the same thing in 10 years. Many of these owners, such as the Phillies and the Tigers and other owners are going to be able to force to make these decisions themselves in a few years. So of course, they couldn't vote against the Oakland A's moving, even though this will create a disastrous welfare team ever losing in Las Vegas, kind of like the Washington generals in the Harlem Globe Trotters league where they trought them out and they lose for the tourists almost as if the entire joke was a, as the entire league was a joke with only the real top teams mattering and the smaller teams just competing during the season so that the top teams can compete at the end. Obviously, I think that Major League Baseball should lose their anti-trust exemption, which prevents other entrepreneurs from opening their own baseball league to compete with this congressional protected Major League Baseball League, which pits cities against each other to build stadiums. It's really obvious now there's been huge reports written about it, but none of that matters because they're taking the A's to Las Vegas so all the A's fans can go f themselves. So thank you Major League Baseball, message received A's hats put away. But we're running out of time and this is the bit, can I agree with I'm not supposed to talk about sports or politics, even though they're obviously intertwined and if only some bit corner could have stood up and bought the A's for way more than they're worth the same way that someone bought Twitter, we wouldn't have any of these problems. See, there's the answer. That's what bit corners are going to be buying is sports teams, not maybe this cycle, but in four years, right? That'll be where you want your wealth. Seattle Kraken owned by Jesse Powell wouldn't be a bad move. I saw tone Vays talking on Twitter. He wants to own the D hotel. He says that if Bitcoiners stay in crappy enough hotels long enough, they can just buy the joint. We've made a lot of a lot of up before we're buying hotel casinos. I got to say like I've never really been a sports fan because the fact that sports players can just up from the team that you they're in and go to a different team. I'd never really got that. Also didn't get that they celebrated getting this trophy. And then next year it's up for grabs again. Anyway, I don't know. I've always found it tricky. Maybe they should get an NFT. Ironically, the player's changing teams is kind of an individual value thing where they're negotiating against the big monolithic owners. It's much worse before the players could move teams and they were literally owned by the players as if it were a plantation type system. And I think that's also a reason to be against this with this with the teams pretending to be owned by a city. They say, oh, they're the Oakland athletics. And really they're the John Fisher athletics or the George Steinbrenner Yankees. Like we shouldn't put these names on them if they're just going to be the Mark Cuban Mavericks. Like it's one person that owns them then we should have one person's name but that's how you get the buds in the seats is promote the town because it makes people feel excited and they're part of something. Like the Royal City. I remember radio station. Good morning. Yeah, they had these bumper stickers as I love and then the name of the suburb and everyone just went nuts for it. And I was like, okay, that's yeah, it's really sort of this tribal. You know, it's sort of interesting to see though how long these cities will allow themselves to be obviously played against each other. Like everyone now can look back and they can say, wow, this Oakland thing. It's almost a Rochema or a Nagasaki teaching the other cities. This is what will happen to you if you mess with us. If you don't give us free money and a fast too. Like we want our free money quick. We will leave to another town. We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. They're not. They did that to us in New York when they moved the Dodgers. So like this is, you know, going to happen forever. I don't think there's a way out and they know how the game is played. Well, it's going to have a favorite. So we make it illegal. So we straight up outlaw it and say, hey, as part of your deal where you have a ML, you have a Congressional protected monopoly, a Congressional protected antitrust exemption that we don't talk about every day. We don't talk about Major League baseball and their antitrust exemption. But we're going to now because we don't have any more baseball games in Northern California. We have nothing to do but attack Major League Baseball. Hey, what if it takes 55 years? That's how long the A's were here. We've got time and we've got people too. It's never going to end. A's fans are just up. Instead of making a legal can't you just as fans just do what you do and just boycott like this to drop the whole thing and no one goes and then the A's just die out and then that just never happens again because I can imagine the brand, the A's brand is just destroyed now. They're still trying to take it with them there. It was amazing in their press release. They're like, oh, we've done this before. We moved from Kansas City in Philadelphia and all these other places, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, but it doesn't matter. They're just moving on. The brand is burned. It's actually again, it's back to the producers again. You can make more money with a flop. The A's get revenue sharing from the other team so they get essentially welfare. They're a welfare team and they're moving into a situation where they're always going to get welfare. So they're always going to be a welfare team. Everyone else is out there winning and losing. Suckers. The A's are losing on purpose every season for 15 years now and all the other owners when they finally get a chance to say, you've been losing on purpose. You've been letting us all down. You're ruining the whole league. They said, no, let us put into a new position where you'll have the smallest ballpark in the smallest media market. We also changed it so you don't get the top pick anymore if you're on revenue sharing. So if you're on welfare, you don't get better players anymore. So you're destined to always stay there at the bottom. And yet still the way capitalist works is he's going to double the value of his team and flip it to some other sucker who's going to start complaining about his ballpark being too small and his market being too small. And you know what he's going to want to do. He's going to want to move the team and we're back where we started again, unless Congress acts to regulate this already regulated industry. You're going to be regular more regulations. Make us safe. Anyway, we're running out of time. We're talking about the audience is gone. So thanks to everybody for joining us. Be sure to give us a thumbs up down below. Let us know what you think in the comments. They probably stole your sports team to let us hear your righteous anger from Winnipeg and Quebec and all the other angry places. Montreal, not just Canadian teams too though. Other places have their team stolen St. Louis and San Diego, all the places. But until next time, bye.