The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 years, the sharpest satosies, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Hi, how are you, bitcoins? Harry Krauss from Shenandoah, Bitcoin. A hoi from the valley. Derek Ross from NosterPlebs.com. Hey, hey, what's going on? And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Sam Bankman Freed, found guilty. The scene here on the Drudge report, crypto creep found guilty faces 110 years. Yes, Sam Bankman Freed was found guilty of all seven counts of fraud in a stunning fall for former crypto billionaire. Look at the horrible dead eyes in the photo that CNN business chose. They barely deliberated for half a day. We've been talking about this trial for weeks and weeks and weeks. You know the backstory. The borrowed customer funds and now guilty on seven counts still will he actually serve that amount of time? Or will we see a Theranos effect as the amount of jail time keeps going down and down and down? Of course, it is impossible as far as I know other than the movie junior for Sam to get pregnant. Dan Eve, what's going on with Sam Bankman Freed? Seven counts all guilty. Well, I think there's there's isn't there another potential five charges that still may go ahead as well. So now there's 110. The political political laundering money charges were separated into a different trial. So yes, there is more to come, but it's like kicking a dead horse, right? You're like beating it at a certain point like. Yeah, they it's not certain yet. Right. Whether those charges will go ahead. So when he gets sentenced in March, we should find out. But a maximum term of 110 years. So it really is starting to look like he is going to get some serious time. Obviously, that's the maximum right. So they could make an example of him. They could kind of let him off a bit easy. But I think everyone could see it coming and the fact that he was testifying his own, you know, his own case was was kind of a move of desperation. You know, last hope, which didn't really turn out so well for him, unfortunately. But I think a lot of people are going to be happy that he's going to get a severe sentence because a lot of people got burned severely. A lot of institutions were embarrassed, you know, from Sequoia to, well, and celebrities, right? Like Tom Brady, you know, got brought down by all Larry David, who obviously came away looking not looking good because even in his own advert, he, where he was, he was paid, he was telling them not to invest it in it or use FDX. So he came out of it looking all right. But yeah, there's the, I'll be interested to see now if how Ellison and, and the others and Wang get, get treated, whether they are going to get severe sentences, or whether they get kind of let off quite lenient because they were essentially giving, you know, giving evidence against against him and they went guilty straight away rather than Sam trying to kind of play it off. And, you know, I think this is really highlight how, how highly he thought of himself and how maybe it's like actually a done in Kruger thing or did I even get that right? Maybe it's Kruger done in a, never went which way around it is. Now I feel stupid for saying it because of the whole point of the thing. But he probably thought he was more intelligent than, than he actually was, right? And then he could fall everyone, he could trick everyone. He had these little side games going on, releasing the diary, and it's all turned out to be pretty, pretty poor for him, you know, a sad, sad ending for, for SBF. All the tricks went nowhere. And it wasn't the first time he testified against himself. Dan, as he did all this podcasts and the podcast tour, the very interesting Tiffany Fong visits, talking about his childhood teddy bear and other very personal things that he's been sharing with bloggers, does seem like it's the end for SBF. We've talked about him ad nauseam over and over again. I even read the Michael Lewis book this last week. So I'm full of positivity about the future of finance, the guy who plays video games during important meetings, and then is lauded for it. Gary Kraus, what do you think about SBF, the man who allegedly took customer funds, now guilty for 110 years, they're going to use the reanimation ray on him, Halloween season. They're going to make sure he serves it all. I couldn't think of anything more fitting, but I do think it's interesting. You mentioned those other charges, or Dan mentioned those other charges. I think it was five charges that are going to be held in a several trial. It's very interesting that those are politically related because the list was myriad of people that he donated to politically, and it doesn't surprise me if they're going to have that trial separately. And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear a much about that trial in the news. It was really interesting while reading the book. They talked about his lobbying efforts, and while you would assume his lobby of efforts would be mainly pro crypto, pro FTX, maybe a little anti-binax thrown in there. According to the Michael Lewis book, he and his brother, who did most of the lobbying for their firm, if you can call it that, they were of course with everything. Everything they did, they were reinventing. Like when they did the advertising, they didn't hire an advertising and branding firm. They just tried a bunch of random things and wanted to see if that established a brand. So in the same way, when they were essentially paying money to all of these politicians, they wanted to prevent the next pandemic. They were worried about pandemic preventiveness. Something about this effective altruism, which started out at first as a way to help people, and you say, okay, maybe you'd help the poor or the homeless, somebody in the real time who needs help started to become a way to save humanity, where long term like Star Trek, you're looking into the future, you're like, what's going to get us? Global warming, these kind of things, and he and his brother were worried about preventing the next pandemic. And it's really funny because the whole thing was dipping into the cookie jar, and once they were in the cookie jar, they spent it on all these random kind of personal pet projects. It wasn't really just like dipping into the cookie jar, promote the business. Like one would assume, it was all of this personal interests. Derek, what do you think about the collapse of SBF, and now his conviction? Well, you know, I think that it's interesting that CNN chose the title that they did and said that it was a stunning fall for SBF. Like if you're a bit-cointer, it wasn't a stunning fall. You saw the writing on the wall for, you know, two years. You knew what was happening. Most bit-cointers called this guy out as being a scammer years ago. Hell, I think two years ago I called him out. I called him out as a scammer. Said FTX was his scam token, and he blocked me on Twitter. Like, I mean, I'm not saying that block on somebody on Twitter means it's, you know, he's an indicator for anything, but I wasn't surprised when this happened. I wasn't surprised when he finally got arrested. I'm not surprised he got convicted. But I may be surprised, though, at his sentencing. Like as you said earlier, you know, as time moves forward, the leniency changes on the sentencing. And I hope we don't see that because he's a scammer, and he should get everything that he deserves and that's coming towards him. It was really interesting to see the rise of FTX. It reminded me a little bit of the rise of Facebook where the Bitcoiners didn't really see it. And the technical people didn't really see the rise of Facebook. It was happening on the East Coast far away from Silicon Valley with FTX. My main interaction with the company was when they bought the Blockfolio app. Like a lot of Bitcoiners, I use this old Blockfolio app to track how many like Coin or Bitcoin or whatever you have in your portfolio. And it was just a simple portfolio app. He bought it. Then he, you know, put advertising in it. Then he basically changed it into the FTX app. So he had this built-in user base of X number Blockfolio users that he could say right away have the FTX app installed. I thought it was really clever, probably really expensive. We also heard about him when he made other expensive moves like buying the FTX arena in Miami or getting Tom Brady or all the other people to advertise in his shows. Dan, when did you learn about FTX? Do you agree? It was like kind of hidden from the Bitcoiners. I've heard a lot of the damages might be institutional. Josh said last week, like the Singapore government, part of that, like invested in FTX, all of these larger institutions where people will be hurt, but it might not be like mom and pop or your brother and your sister. For me, it was Blockfolio. When they got taken over, suddenly, I didn't like that. I didn't sit too well. I didn't really know FTX is an exchange, but I just stopped using it after that. I thought it's been bought out. Nothing good. Nothing is going to come of this. I'm glad I didn't go anywhere near FTX. I don't know anyone that got burned, which is good because it's always sad when when friends and people get burned on these schemes. It was only purely hearing about it from Blockfolio. Then the FTT token, I never really heard about, even the kind of shit coin, Twitter that you'd see or see much about it, it was more actually about Sam Bankman-Free, the coverage of him being this eccentric billionaire, one of, you know, one of, he had a good sort of guy. He obviously came across quite well. First of all, he convinced a lot of people that he was out for the greater good of the world. They said he wanted to be president, right? He wanted to become president and he wanted to save the world and all these things. He really tried to. Of the United States, yes, president of the United States. Well, that wouldn't have been so crazy after Trump, right? There's another business guy sort of taking the hell. But yeah, I'm kind of glad I didn't ever get mixed up in that mess, to be honest. And it's just another, another sore example of not your keys, not your coins. And your funds will be commingled in all sorts as he admitted on that coffee zilla video. And it was kind of an amazing example of like a libertarian's worst nightmare. It's like, you give your money to the exchange and they'll go out spending it on Tom Brady and all this other fun stuff. And they'll just, you know, have a whole like, it's like Ferris Puler when he drops the car off at the garage, like they just take it out immediately. Like it goes out the back door right away. Gary Kraus, when did you learn about FTX and was it present in your life or was it kind of a behind the scenes thing like it was for us? It was behind the scenes thing. You know, I'm relatively new in the past two years of the Bitcoin space in general. And I luckily stumbled across different exchanges in my experimentation and my journey down the rabbit hole. So when FTX blew up, it was, it was a shock to me. I'm like, what is this FTX thing come to find out they have a stadium and major sponsors. But I got relatively, I touched the stove very lightly and very early. So much so that I didn't go down the trading rabbit hole. So I didn't really look for a big exchange or anything that could show me all the flashy price charts or anything like that. So FTX was a complete black hole to me until I heard about them. And turns out they had no Bitcoin. So I'm glad I didn't. Yeah, it was interesting way back in the day when I was getting involved. Everyone was involved in Mt. Cox. Everyone I knew had an account either lost money, pulled it out, that kind of thing. It was this international ripple just every country everywhere. You go, Derek, what was it like for you? Did you learn about FTX early? Was it constantly present with you or was it background like us? Yeah, it was really background. Like I, whenever I stopped shitcoining in early 2021 and you know, it became full Bitcoin only, Bitcoin or Maxi, I didn't pay attention to anything like that. I didn't pay attention to exchanges popping up and didn't see people talking about FTX or anything. And I didn't really pay attention to it until things started happening. And we started seeing Teriluna crash. And after that, then I started looking at other things and watching them crash and then started learning more about FTX. But it was, you know, it was out of sight out of mind. I don't dabble in that trading, atmosphere and futures and everything like that. I just buy it, hold and open lightning channels and play with Noster. Like I'm a simple guy. So I had no clue what was going on until it was really being talked about. It's interesting. The size and scope of this thing. And yet it doesn't seem to affect anyone that I know. I know that lots of people lost their money. I'm not denying that. I know government institutions, unions, other kind of people, large funds had money in there. Tom Brady had money in there. I mean, money was certainly lost. But it just is very interesting who it affected and which sections it affected. It reminds me a lot of like HECS or one coin where depending on the market that you hit, you can hit like none of crypto Twitter, still make a ton of money. Still have a huge one coin launch, have big meetings, have all this stuff. And it doesn't touch, you know, crypto Twitter or Bitcoin Twitter, whatever colleague this is at all. So it's very strange to see how these things move and then don't move. Yeah, I've seen a lot of that Tom with with Noster. Like talking about Noster and then you go and you talk into a completely different online community. And they've never heard of it before. And I'm like, how aren't you in like, it just kind of blows my mind. So you're absolutely right. We all have our own little online or even maybe off line pockets, social pockets and social networks. And a lot of time they don't mix and in a commingle as much as we really think they would. It's very strange that we only covered SPF on the way down. We didn't really have a celebration of him on the way up. I've seen some nice videos. He's got the curly hair and the cargo pants. He says he's not interested in money, but he needs a lot of it so that he can help people. Reminded me of some other deities that I've heard of always asking for money. But yes, it's a very interesting story. And I think it's now through. I know everyone's tired of repetitious topics on this show. And I think we can close the book on SPF. We're getting really close to closing the book on the ETF. So we're going to run out of topics to talk about them. We'll probably go back to talking about who Satoshi is. I don't know. I think we might do a little bit at the end of this show. But let's move on to the exit question. This is where you get to predict the future. Put your your prognosticating caps on. How long will SPF actually spend in jail? Remember Theranos is down to about nine years. She's probably going to serve five, maybe three, unless you actually murder someone in the United States, you don't usually have to stay in for your whole sentence, though he does have back to back to back stretched on the ground 111 years. Of course, there's also a possibility that he opts out of his own sentence or someone else opts it out for him. Dan Eve, how long SPF in jail? So I said double, double Theranos. Theranos? Yeah. Double Theranos are like 18 years, I thought. But then I think I'm going to double that right to 36. Because Bernie Madoff, didn't he get initially get like 150 years? I don't know if he's still serving that right? So that's still the far-firing made off was released from jail only to go to hospice and pass away. So yes, they did keep Madoff in jail for life. But he wasn't older man. SPF is pretty young. I think he's around 31. I don't know exactly. So I think I'm still going to go, I'm going to go 36 years. But maybe whether he ends up serving that, I don't know, but they'll try and make an example of him. You know, they're already trying to do it right now with Elizabeth Warren and since the Illumas are sort of ganging up about crypto regulation, they're probably going to try and push for a hardcore sentence, you know, in general to kind of, and Gensner, you know, with his approach to speaking positively about Bitcoin, but not so much about other scams. So yeah, I think I think that they need to make an example of him. We've got a big optimist for the American legal system here. Remember, we really only punish violent crime in this country, except for the Silk Road. That guy got a life sentence. Gary, how long is SPF going to spend in prison? Go ahead. Well, first of all, Freeross. And second of all, I am not so optimistic. I think he lined enough pockets in the political atmosphere. That based on this next trial, that's probably not going to be televised or reported on. I think he's going to spend a short time in jail. I'm going to say three years. And before he gets out on some pardon or some sort of good behavior, or some sort of spinning of why he's able to get out so early. I love the role. I love the optimism here. I think it's awesome. It's very low. I was going to say pardon is a possibility. We want to put that on the board. Some president down the line could say, SPF was just trying to help people get crypto. You know, he was just excited about crypto. And he made some whoopsies along the way. And there's a lot of times they pardon like a list of financial people. And if you've pardoned like five or six other real heavy hitters, it doesn't matter if you threw SPF on there. Sadly, putting Ross on that list would erase all the financial guys. You could pardon all the financial guys you want if they pardoned Ross. The heavens would fall. People would be super pissed because it's a drug issue. Even though the drug war almost is over. Derek, what do you think? How long will SPF actually spend in jail? Dan's at what 36? Gary's got the low at three. Probably prices right rules here. Yeah. You know, I do like the argument that he may be made an example of. But as you said, with few exceptions, we seem to only punish violent crimes. Like if you steal money from people, it's like, you know, we're going to let's just slide, which is so horrible that we do that. So I don't think he's going to do 110 years. I don't think he's going to get a life sentence. I don't know. Yeah, we'll go somewhere in the middle, maybe maybe 20 years. And then he'll be out on parole and not be allowed to touch computer. My who knows by then? We've, you know, who knows we're half 20 years from now. Maybe he won't need to. Who knows? But yeah, that's my answer. 20. I think I'm right in there. I would go about 30. But then I think somehow it gets reduced to 15. And he serves about eight to 10. I think he could get out. I think we'll see SPF on the outside. A different person. I don't know. It reminds me a lot of hackers. The movie that he said he couldn't touch a computer. But I will see if they have that kind of penalty on him. But it definitely would be a major hit for a nonviolent crime for him to get anything over 10 over 15. Even though we've seen this 111 year penalty. Moving on to issue two. Issue two Bitcoin is set to rocket to 150,000 dollars by the middle of 2025. As the world's largest cryptocurrency begins a new cycle. Bernstein says it seems like 2025 in the middle seems just about the time of the havining that we talk about all the time. It might not be exactly on the havining. It might be six months after or six months before. No one knows. Gary Kross, what do you think about Bitcoin skyrocketing to 150K in 2025? I think this is bearish. This is bearish on the timeline. And it might be even bearish on the price. I don't think people can really rock the supply shock that is incoming here. And the radical adherence to a DCA strategy that myself and all my other psychopathic Bitcoin friends have. We're already seeing that with the numbers on exchanges where it's just down and down and down and down. And all the plebs are just scooping it up at an accelerating rate. And the more plebs that we have out there scooped at accelerating rate, the more this havining is going to shock things. And I don't think people are ready for that mentally. And it's definitely not going to happen in 2025. I'm saying before them. Definitely I give a movie recommendation. Everyone should check out the movie dumb money about the game stock stock crisis because Gary reminded me of that little there. All my plebs and all my kiddies and everybody uniting together. But I do think you're right about the supply structure, the way that Bitcoin consistently goes down on a deflationary structure. And the way that the havinings occur on the block, no matter what it's raining, it's a bad day for the crops. There's a war in this place. You know, the guy lost his shoes, whatever happened. If we get to that block, the havining happens. And when the media starts to understand this and starts to understand, it doesn't matter if it's a Tuesday or a Saturday, whatever day it is, it's going to go off. And it's going to keep going off and that there's a possibility that just because of the deflationary structure that Bitcoin's a good investment, not all the other things as well. But just that one point and the havinings a great representation and an example of that. I hope we have some good havining parties this time. Derek, what do you think? 150K in 2025? You know, I want to echo what Gary said because as soon as I read that headline, I said to myself, man, why so bearish? Because I really feel the same way that supply shock has to be coming with multiple ETFs most likely getting approved back to back. They're going to need to fill orders for their customers. They're going to have to buy actual Bitcoin. And exchanges are the lowest that they've ever been. Supply shock will happen. They'll have to purchase Bitcoin. And I don't know. I think that you can tell by when we had fake news happen like a week or two ago about some ETF possibly getting approved, like immediately, instantly, we pumped the market once it. People want it. And so I think that we might have some earlier price action hitting that target before 2025. But to be honest, I really don't care about the price. I know where it's going, giving a long enough time. And I want it to stay as low as possible because I've only been in the game for three years here now. And I have to stack for myself and my family members. So bring out the FUD. It's never hitting 150K. Whenever we can do to keep it low, man, I'm happy with it because I know where it's going, giving a long enough time. Well, and I think that's the sentiment of the banks as well. When we had the kind of coin telegraph news about the ETF, it jumped when we had the, it's listed on the black rock website news about the ETF. It jumped even more. And then it kind of went back down, went back to being quiet. And everyone's like, don't talk about it. Don't talk about the Bitcoin. I really feel that the banks are running their strategies the same Derek is they're like, I want to stack some more sites. I want to get in on this, you know, before it's too late. And I remember telling people back when it was like 3K or whatever. I was like, this is a good price. This is something you should look at. And now at like 15 and then 30, they're like, oh, I could never get 30. I could never get that kind of money together. But Dan, Eve, what do you think 150K? And so far, everyone's telling me that it's not enough. It's not enough. Yeah, I'm with the panel. I'm definitely bearish, especially after Ben told us about the 600 billion figure, maybe my imagination just gone wild after that. Is it 600? Was it 600 billion? I think it was something crazy like that. I don't know who prophesized that, but it's definitely the higher one. 600 billion sats or something. What was Ben's thing? I think it was 600 billion for Bitcoin. Yeah, it is. There was people handing these stickers out. It's Bitcoin, honey, badger conference. And I never heard of that prophecy, but they were everywhere. Yeah, it sounds like anything lower than infinity. Infinity dollars, because that's the most that you could have. Is the whole world of flip into Bitcoin and you won't be able to price things otherwise. But I like putting a number on it. Six billion is a lot. No, six billion is a lot. 600 billion is just craic way. But you know, 600 billion is a lot. I can't even get translations going, man. Like, you know, it's going through the roof. And if it just keeps on going, maybe 600 billion might be the figure in 2021 40 or whatever it is. I know for six billion dollars, you could get a taco. Indeed. Yeah. You wouldn't need to be like that. That's how SBF gets pardoned is he only defrauded people for, you know, several million. And so that's nothing these days. That's like 2035. Mount Gox. They're like, where do you draw the line? How much money did we lose? And you can say it later and now. It seems to be any worse and worse for them though. Dan, what do you think? Higher and higher? Higher and higher. Yeah. I think the, I'm not sure if it will come before the harvining because it seems like it seems like we've the pattern we've got so far. Right. Is the pump always comes about a year after the harvining. So it'll be interesting. It breaks that with the institutions finally coming in like big time. And they've got to, if these are spot ETFs, they've got to own that Bitcoin. So there's a right, regardless of the supply shock of the harvining event, they're going to need to start stacking it for people to invest in the ETF. So that's going to create a real demand as it is. We seem like we've got into like sideways consolidation right now, where we're sort of in in purgatory. We're in like ETF purgatory again, right? Where there's now $15.5 trillion of assets under management companies holding those funds or managing those funds and each found for a Bitcoin ETF. There may be more that come out of the woodwork by the time the first ETF actually does get approved. So who knows where this is going right now, but it's definitely going up. Obviously we may see a bit of a drop after, you know, if we get the first ETF, there'll be a pump. And then there's a dump on the news, people selling the, selling, you know, making some, taking some profits in. But ultimately $150K is like just child play now. 600 billion, 200 billion. Wow. And remember that the Bitcoin price is waiting to go up until after you sell, that's right. You right there were waiting for you to give up and sell. As soon as that happens, boom, straight up and a dancing that it won't happen before Gary saying that it will, Gary has Adam back on his side, Adam back having predicted 100K by the harvining, which is a bold prediction like dancing. It's usually six months a year after, as soon as you've given up and you're like, the halvings not working, this doesn't work. Bitcoin never goes up. That's when it starts going up. All right. So now predicting against the, the magic eight ball, the source of all Bitcoin truth in the universe, Gary will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. Higher. Derek higher or lower. Lower. Dan Eve higher. Lower. We've got a mixed panel. All of our, what happened to all of our bullishness? We were bowl, bowl, bowl. But now it's mixed. Dan, what do you got? Higher as well. All right. We're going to ask the bar. Remember shaking the magic eight ball can cause bubbles. So I watch out at that. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It hasn't answered us the last few weeks in a row. My reply is no. My reply is no. And the ball was very full of bubbles. I better move on to the next issue. Even the ball is becoming pessimistic. Here we are moving on. Check out. That's not the right one. Can't be the right one. How about this one? Check out worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got 3,226 videos. If you watch them all back to back without sleeping, it would take you three months, 17 days and two hours. Probably twice that if you wanted to sleep. We're coming up on our 10 year anniversary on February 1st. It's been nine years, 10 months and 21 days since our first video. Check it out at worldcryptonetwork.com. Issue three, SafeMoon executives charged in the US with fraud related to the crypto token. Yes, SafeMoon, the founder and top executives have been charged. It was once worth eight billion dollars according to the US Department of Justice. They were running a fraud that diverted tens of millions of investor dollars so that they could buy luxuries and line their pockets. Derek, what do you think about SafeMoon and its collapse and now the lawsuit? Well, you know, anything that has the word SafeInit and Moon and it's named that way because your funds are safe and it's guaranteed to Moon probably will not do either of those. So if you bought this, you are dumb and I can't say it any other way. It is just complete degeneracy and gambling. So who would have ever thought this would have happened? Well, most people. So I'm not again, not surprised at this happened. This is another one that I don't even know anything about. I see it on the boards and I think is it something to do with SafeMoon? That guy who wrote the Bitcoin book. Like, otherwise, I have no idea what's going on here. And then all in the background, like I'm doing others have SafeMoon, like goes up everyone's side. SafeMoon collapses back down and now there's a lawsuit. It just seems like so many other stories, but I didn't get a chance to really participate or pay attention. Dan, Eve, were you watching SafeMoon closely? Did it, did it moon before it collapsed? No, well, I mean, it looks like it kind of did in the first couple of weeks or something, but then after that, it's just all misery. I'll find the looks of it. I'm with Derek that you call something SafeMoon. It's probably not going to be safe and it might have mooned very briefly. And only a few very small number of people would have actually made money from it. But for everyone else, it would have been unsafe doom and gloom. No moon, unfortunately. So it seems like it's still going. There's it migratives. They obviously, you know, they were trying to save the sinking, the sinking ship. But this is just another example of some crazy ICO where they just, you know, took all the funds, spent them on luxurious yachts and and and cars and all sorts gloated about it in their little private chats as well. One thing if you're going to defraud people, like all these things, just don't gloat about it in a private chat because that ends up coming out, like that. And that's what's going to seal your fate. It's crazy how many people actually do that, isn't it? Like, you know, it's it's it's unbelievable. So just keep your mouth quiet. And I'm not telling anyone to defraud anyone, but you know, for your own, for your own sake, you're just making things worse. These guys are going to probably get some jail time by the sounds of it. I mean, they've they've definitely been evidentially defrauding people and bezeling money and all sorts of things. And obviously side stepping the the safe SEC and all sorts of regulation actually based in the US as well, right? So so maybe that that hammer will come down hard. I'm not sure what how they like did their ICO in terms of allowing US citizens to go in. But it sounds like the whole thing was done very kind of shadily. And it's not going to be it's not going to be good for the safe moon is Gary Kraus. What do you think about safe moon and its rise and fall? I mean, after my first big blowout on Bitcoin Twitter when I started paying attention, which was Tara Luna, anything affiliated with the moon, I just ignored. And that included safe moon. So I couldn't tell you anything about it. But I hope these guys see the inside of a jail cell for a long time. I felt that way when I heard about the moon, M-U-U, and wallet. I was like, this this is a bad name. Also, you can't spell it. Any of these startups where like first you say it, then you spell it. It's like always a bad idea. But yeah, I never never knew anything about safe moon. I guess I never will. This reminds me of so many other coins and founders. Let's move on to the exit question. Dan, Eve, do you think the safe moon trial and collapse will hurt Bitcoin in the past whenever an altcoin collapse? They were always like, this is crap. And so is Bitcoin. I think there'll be a few people calling it, but the uneducated ones. And you know, the safe moon couldn't be further away from Bitcoin in terms of being centralized. And just a very clear Ponzi type scheme with crazy ICO and nothing like Bitcoin whatsoever. I think even even the people that hate Bitcoin would be able to see the difference between Bitcoin and safe moon. I feel embarrassed even saying the word. It is funny, but it did somehow become worth $8 billion. So it must be important. Gary Kraus, will people get confused? Will we see the usual avalanche of FUD? I don't think so. I think I feel like the people that were paying attention for the people that are now paying attention over the past two years are beginning to get the difference. And you know, everything's good for Bitcoin anyway. But safe moon, I think it's just going to be another one of those crypto Ponzi scans that everybody just writes off and they say, okay, and then anybody that's taken, you know, 10 hours to look in the Bitcoin will easily understand the difference of that. So no, I don't think there's any impact. And if there is, I'll scoop up some cheap stats. Well, we're certainly in the bad news right now with SBF crossing over into the mainstream news. Everyone gets to take a shot at the crypto billionaire now in jail. Derek, what do you think? Will they do the same with safe moon? Is it time to attack Bitcoin again? Oh, you know, I actually, Tom, I think it that it is because Bitcoin has a little bit of a branding problem. People think that all bitcoins are the same, you know, which kind of Bitcoin do you invest in? I invest in Dogecoin. I invest in safe moon. Everything's all Bitcoin. Everything's all cryptocurrency. Everything's all related. And we know that it's not. We know that there's very stark differences. But the average person on the street that if they've heard of one, they branded all the same, just like Kleenex and Qtips and Xerox, you know, it's words that all mean the same thing. Even though there's different companies that produce these, these, these products are different different, you know, coins and whatnot. So I think that some people that already don't like Bitcoin will use it to deceive people and say that, look, see what the cryptocurrency market does. It's filled with scams, look at safe moon and FTX, things like that. But people that know that there's a difference and, you know, it won't affect them. But I think it'll be short-lipped. I think that, you know, we see this happen all the time. Bitcoin doesn't care. And 10 minutes, another block is going to be found. And we're just going to keep trucking forward. And like Gary said, if we can get some cheaper sats out of it, hell yeah, like let's do it. Like I said earlier, I don't mind the fun every once in a while because I got to buy more Bitcoin. So this gives a chance for other people around the world and developing nations to scoop up some sats before the price goes up. So I, you know, I don't like fun. But, you know what, it does have a silver lining to it for people. It's interesting to have an educated and informed art audience. You can never confuse them. But like you're saying with this, it can confuse some people and they will be driven off the task. Back in the day, we used to have a thing where there was a Bitcoin CEO. And they would say CEO of Bitcoin, CEO of Bitcoin does this. And then to our horror, the CEO of Bitcoin died in India. And they were like CEO of Bitcoin dead. And then all my family members were all like, oh, Bitcoin's over the CEO died. Like, why are you still into that thing? Like the CEO's dead, if some other Bitcoin company goes out of business, they're like, oh, Bitcoin went out of business. So yes, you can always fool. You can fool some of the people all the time. You can't fool all the people all the time, something like that. But those are the same ones who always get fooled. Our next tweet kind of connects the issues together. Gary Gensler from the SEC who's charging SafeMoon says, if Satoshi Nakamoto went as Satoshi Nakamoto for Halloween, would we be able to tell? I wish I had my little. It doesn't have it. Here we go. That's as we I want to laugh, though. I have it. I don't have a laugh. Anyway, he says happy 15th anniversary to Satoshi's favorite white famous white paper that started crypto. Not really true. Didn't really start it. Any crypto companies that are tricking investors should start treating them to compliance with the security laws. A little funny joke at the end by Gary Gensler. And we're also going to talk about the mysterious Bitcoin white paper that is now 15 years old on Halloween. Let's go to Derek first. What do you think about the Gary Gensler and the SETC's little funny trick or treat joke? I liked it. I liked it. It brought a little smirk to my face reading that. Gary is also signaling the same thing he's been saying for years that there's Bitcoin and then there's security, unregistered securities. I think that plays in the same narrative that Gary has been hinting about for years now. We all like to... I don't understand some of the things that Gary does and why he doesn't come out and specifically say things and hint around why he beats around the bush at some of these things. But the legal system takes forever and things don't happen overnight. So I think that we'll eventually see some... We don't want regulations, like overregulating is bad, but at the same time, all these scammers are clearly selling unregistered securities. So I think that the writing's on the wall there. And I thought it was a cute little troll tweet. Dan and Eve, we used to get no attention at all. Now Bitcoin gets a trick-or-treat tweet from Gary Gensler, the head of the SEC. Are we big time now or what? No, I agree. I think it's pretty... It was pretty cute of him. Obviously it's slightly incorrect about the fact that it started... The White Paper started crypto. Obviously, if you said it, it started Bitcoin, that's a different story. But it was a cool little thing to kind of add from sort of from someone who is actually usually kind of a bit on the fence about crypto and stuff in general. And he's got to send that message out, right? There's the... You can't have these crazy projects where you're just tricking your investors. You've got to be compliant. If you are going to try and pull off one of these ICOs and not become an FTX and the plethora of other exchanges and tokens that have failed you to being just crazy Ponzi schemes. But also at the same time, the mixing of Bitcoin and crypto in the same sentence. Again, Bitcoin is nothing like all the cryptocurrencies that started off with the carbon copies of name, coin, and dogecoin, or Litecoin, all the others, right? Bitcoin is Bitcoin and it's a completely different book title of fish. And it always bugs me when these articles... There's so many of them as well. They say Bitcoin, the largest cryptocurrency by market cap. And you're like, come on, you can call it something better than that just by saying, you know, that just tries to show it or tries to throw it in the same bucket as other cryptocurrencies. When it's a completely different kind of the fish Bitcoin is money, these other cryptocurrencies are tokens and utility tokens, whatever excuse you can come up with, but they're not they're not money and they're not the reason why Bitcoin was was invented. So it's sad to bucket them all together. And but at least it's bringing awareness that to crypto as in other other non Bitcoin cryptocurrencies. I agree and I also agree with Derek. I'm glad that Gensler knows the difference and he knows that Bitcoin knows above all the other cryptocurrencies. I think he kind of failed out on the rest of crypto history going more towards encryption, talking about Adam back and proof of work, talking about Phil Zimmerman and PGP, pretty good privacy, going back to Alan Turing and encryption, maybe the Enigma machine. I don't know, but remember that Satoshi is like the Linus of Bitcoin. He goes out and he takes all these kind of tools that Stalman Gnu tools that he made and that Adam back and other people way die. Gosh, I'm forgetting his name. What's the other one they think is Satoshi all the time? Nick Scabo, all these people that worked on the idea of cryptocurrency and that they did it before the white paper. It's just that Satoshi with the white paper like Linus with the Linux operating system kind of brings these tools together and then make something kind of superior to the tools and then everybody else comes in and if it's the best case scenario, Adam back starts working on Bitcoin and that's what he does. That's what you have with Jesus and the disciples. I'm not going to follow another Jesus. I'm going to join up with the real one. I'm going to be with the disciples. Let's go to Gary Kraus. What do you think about the Bitcoin white paper and a special shout out from the SEC chairman? I personally think that the shout out, it was not a good joke. It did not make me laugh and it was embarrassing coming from another Gary. It did sort of confirm for me. I've had this theory as I've had friends over the years trying to sell me on some other crypto token or this side or the other and it always seemed to me that they were just some other technology startup company and so the fact that the chairman of the SEC is putting them out there kind of solidifies it in my brain. It's like, okay, this guy's thinking the same way that this is just a tech startup. Maybe there's some cool unique application that's going to come of it that maybe with NFTs, the DMV will become more efficient because we can digitally prove ownership of our car. That's cool but when you change and fundamentally shift the foundation of society like Bitcoin does by being the first money that is separated from the state, that's a whole nother animal. That's a whole nother beast. I think it's very telling that Gary Gensler is making an intentional tweet. While all this ETF stuff is going on, while all this FTX stuff is going on, so it's in the zeitgeist of the populace here and here's Gary Gensler sort of, I don't know, maybe tipping his hand that he's in it for Bitcoin which many have guessed before, but time will tell. We'll see. Tweets are not actions. Pay attention to what the man does. I agree. It's kind of like he's putting his hand on the scale. It's like when the MLB commissioner tweets about the Oakland reorganization thing. I always don't like it. Just stay out of it. Let things happen. But moving on to the exit question. Another forced prediction. Dan Eve, who is Satoshi Nakamoto? I'm still going with like how finny, but then there's even loads of evidence that the people are saying is not how finny. I don't think we shouldn't ever know. The main thing is we shouldn't ever know. But we don't need to idolize false idols. I don't know what the term is, but we don't need a central figure in Bitcoin or someone like Ethereum has vitalic. We just need Bitcoin as a protocol that's non-political and for everyone. For the good of the world. Oh, come on. Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own vitalic? I could say something like Satoshi wrote in my car. I drove him to a meetup. It would be true. Just like it's also true. All right, Gary. Don't flake out on me here like, Dan, I want a real name. Who is Satoshi Nakamoto? It's very clearly Dorian Nakamoto. That's the biggest sia of the century. I'll stick with that answer. I'll also mention that every time I see a peer connected to me on my node, there's also Satoshi. Dorian's out there just running nodes like a madman and I wish him the best of luck. I do love the idea of Dorian being Satoshi and pretending not to be Satoshi. Just saying, you want a free lunch and I also like it because I've met Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto. This is fun for me too. Any Satoshi that I've met is like points up in my book. I'm also looking for some Nick Scabbo or some Adam back answers here. Derek, who do you have Satoshi Nakamoto? It's not the answer you want, but I generally don't care. I think that it's good that we don't know who Satoshi is. For various reasons, we don't need a leader. We just need the protocol. We don't need somebody to invalidate all of our arguments as why Bitcoin is good because we say other, these cryptocurrencies, the theorems and so forth have heads, have people with the top. We don't need somebody at the top that invalidates our argument. I think that Bitcoin does great without having that person at the top. If we happen to ever find out who Satoshi is, if we find out one day that Thomas Hunt is Satoshi Nakamoto, then I will be like, that's cool. I'm going to keep using Bitcoin. It won't change my conviction. It won't change my thoughts at all. I still think Bitcoin is great for the world and knowing who created it, whoever he or she or the group of people are. It won't change for me. I've got a different prediction. Satoshi is not bad born yet. I've gone through this thought exercise that I think in the far distant future that we some kid out there that just happens to generate the keys to Satoshi's wallet. It's a non-zero probability. Non-zero still means it could happen. One of our descendants could be Satoshi. That's the difference. Children's book idea. The child who got the keys. You talk about how there are many keys as there are stars in the sky. No two people will get the same keys, but the Dalai Lama. It's like one child did get the same keys and then he's out expending all the money and buying Lamborghinis and stuff. Gary, are you saying that by chance this happens or is Satoshi a time traveler? That's for you to find out, Derek. I need you to go down that rabbit hole and find it out for me. There was that great time traveler guy who had all the predictions. I think one of them was a digital currency. We're in that rabbit hole as well. Welcome to the time traveler conspiracy people. One other danger is that why Satoshi realized that he had to leave or that she she's there had to leave was because the most amazing thing about Bitcoin is that it's run on consensus. If you have someone as directed like he's around, his opinion would end up trumping a lot of people and they probably would just listen to him and not saying he would have been incorrect or she would have been incorrect or but that his opinion would have had their opinion whatever would have had so too much sway and it would have it would affect the consensus mechanism and people would throw perhaps logic out because maybe he's not right on everything and therefore they would follow his lead just because it's what he said rather than whether it's the best thing for the network. To be truly decentralized, it needs to have no commanding ideas at the helm as well as an actual just ahead. This also leads into what Satoshi did by disappearing. Remember there are billions of dollars in that wallet as well as like dancing the influence. All these people listening to you, being able to say what is truly Bitcoin, what is not Bitcoin, as we've seen parallel with Linus, Linus decides what's in the Linux operating system. He controls the kernel for a long time. Then he let other people in and so on and so forth. Satoshi could have done that. He could have stayed and become king. Instead we have this almost George Washingtonian. I will not be a king. We should have other people running Bitcoin. We should have Bitcoin for the people and it elevates the project. And what's so funny is this has been true the whole time. This prometheus like, I'm not going to get chained to the rock. I'm going to disappear thing. But as it goes on further as the secret is now kept for 15 years as the media now cares about Bitcoin, as they now write about it as they're now money and all these other things in it to continue to not touch the money to continue to not touch the fame. And as as Satoshi said much again, we're doing too many religious references for the show, like Jesus Christ said. Satoshi said, I have other work to do. I'm going to work on another project. And I don't know if that's you know, Jesus going across the stars or Jesus going North America in the Mormon religion or what could be going on. But what an incredibly noble person man, woman, child, alien, whoever they are not to take this credit, not to take this money, not to take this fame for 15 years. Of course, they could just be dead. That would be the simplest thing, right? Well, it's definitely not what Craig Wright said, right? He said that like the white paper was released on his dad's birthday and it was a, it was a, you know, a nod to his dad for saying, thank you. So, but I think it's very, very clear now that Craig Wright definitely is not Satoshi releasing things in his, the sign of all tyrants. Go ahead, Gary, sorry. I was going to say I think the only way that, you know, the identity of Satoshi matters is if it, you know, there's a conspiracy out there that it's the NSA or the CIA. And I think that's the only way it really matters because then at that point, you know, the evil part of the US government it controls a lot of Bitcoin. And you know, they'll dish that out and people will take it away from them and slowly, slowly, or dribble, dribble out. But I think that would be quite the shocker. But I don't think that's the truth. That's, that's one of my favorite future history moments where the government admits that they control Bitcoin, that they wrote Bitcoin, that they own a whole bunch of them and that they've had all these libertarians and cypherpunks working for them, spreading the word about Bitcoin. You've all been working for a hydra the whole time. Ha, ha, ha, ha, and very well could happen, very well could happen. Derek, more on this and then we'll go to Dan. Yeah, I was just going to follow up with Gary said is that I don't believe that this is the case, but doesn't Satoshi Nakamoto and Japanese translate to central intelligence. I believe that I've read that multiple different places. And, and was it the DOD or NSA created Shaw 256? Like, you never know. Like, I doubt it, but it's a, it's a fun, it's a fun conspiracy to, you know, talk about, I guess. Oh, that's leading well into my Satoshi candidate. But first, let's go to Dan, go to Dan. Oh, no, no, I don't, I'm not, yeah, that's not, all right. Well, I'm going to go and predict again that there are three Satoshi's. I like this theory the best. There's the old man with the ideas, the young man with the code and the multidisciplinary man that connects everything together and knows all about it. And they were all working at the NSA or maybe the CIA, all on this Bitcoin project when suddenly the Bitcoin project leaks. Who leaked it? Was it the young man with his idealism, the multidisciplinary man with all of his ideas or the old man with his ideas about history and justice or maybe they all leaked it. Anyway, it'll be a great movie. I'm excited for who is Satoshi the movie. I think there's a lot of great different options and ideas out here. And that's why the media is going to keep talking about it for another 15 years. Again, the real triumph here is keeping the secret. No one can keep a secret this long. Very few operations and government things and so forth have managed this kind of level of security, which again, maybe that's why it's government. Let us know in the chat or the comments down below as you're watching this, who you're pick. Of course, Satoshi Nakamoto is or if you disagree strongly with any of our picks, I'd appreciate to see it. We have one more issue, the bonus issue. I'd leave this out except it is just so fun. Michael Sayler was on TV recently. Let's listen to just a little bit of that. Let's see how the audio works. For the industry to move to the next level, we need to migrate to adult supervision. We're going to need big banks to become the crypto custodians. We're going to need Wall Street to take a role. And we need to rationalize away from the 100,000 crypto tokens, you know, yo-yo coins that people are manipulating to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is an asset without an issue. It is the one universally recognized protocol that's a commodity in the space. So when banks on Wall Street and responsible custodians are managing Bitcoin and the industry takes its eyes away from all of the shiny little tokens that have distracted and and demolished shareholder value, I think the industry moves to the next level and we can ask from here. Just wait till all the adults are in charge. I've said many times that Bitcoin doesn't get to choose their heroes, but we don't have to bend over backward so excited to have new heroes like naive bucali or Michael Sayler, who everyone has been worshipping for the past two or three years. Now he comes out and says very clearly, the Bitcoin industry needs banks and other responsible adults to custodian the Bitcoin, meaning that he probably doesn't know about not your keys, not your coins. He seemed to understand some aspects of Bitcoin, but not all of them. Gary, I saw you doing the face plant during this. What do you think about Michael Sayler and his comments about the banks? I mean, it was very clear, I think from my emotional, but Sayler was the one that his podcast series with breed love was the one that Orange filled me and really got me to understand the gravity and significance of Bitcoin. So to hear this from him, it's a little bit of a shock. And honestly, I don't, it's weird because Bitcoin is the most well regulated asset on the planet. It's just not regulated by people. It's regulated by code and it's regulated by software. And so the more people understand that the more people can come to terms with that, and I would have expected Sayler to have that grass already. This seems like a play at pump in his own bags. Got to remember what they said in Dick Chacy, the enemy of my friend is my enemy, the friend of my enemy is my enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy. Derek, can't we just trust everyone this new billionaires here and he's going to buy up all the Bitcoin and everything's going to be fine, right? Well, you know, I don't think that Michael Sayler's entirely off on that thinking. So even how Finney said in the very beginning that someday he sees the Bitcoin base layer just being banks, transacting. Okay. And how Finney also said someday the Bitcoin's going to be worth millions of dollars of coins and all and used to offset the grid and and meet carbon footprint initiatives and everything. So how's been right? Maybe he was a tosy. You can go back to that last topic. So how the very smart guy I see that happening someday because at the end of the day, banks are just a business and businesses always adapt to survive. We may be actively trying to put a bank a certain business sector out of business, but they're not going to go away overnight. They're going to adapt and they're going to try to offer services to their customers. They're going to try to stick around and them getting into custody solutions as they've always been custodying people's money because that's what banks do. I'm not going to use it. I'm going to self custody, but I also think that it's probably not going to happen when we have eight billion people that that already on this planet don't keep their money under a mattress. They put it in a bank because they don't trust themselves or their environment. They use a custodian for their money already. I don't think that's going to change with Bitcoin, but there's going to be a large subset of Bitcoiners that don't fall into that custody for me category. I also think that at the end of the day, Michael Sailer is a US businessman that has a publicly traded company that deals with banks. He's not going to come out and say, hey, I'm actively attacking you. I'm attacking the US dollar. I'm attacking your industry. He's probably not going to do that because he still needs to work in this industry. I don't think we should read too much into this. I mean, sure Bitcoin was created so we don't need a bank, but as it stands right now, there's not an easy solution for eight billion people to self-custody. They're coins. I think a lot of people someday will use banks and banks will pivot to be off of those services to people. I think it's especially true if you look at the value proposition of Bitcoin. You say, really, there's only 21 million of these things. They are precious. They are rare. They are valuable and sadly, probably too valuable to be underneath your mattress or wherever else you've hidden your treasure in your house, having them in a bank where they're safe and secure and probably can be loaned against is what we're really talking about here is the power of loaning against these, which if they have provable reserves, isn't that bad? Bitcoin can provide provable reserves. They could prove them every day, every hour, that kind of thing, depending on how secure and how much you trust them. But that's not what we've seen. We've seen many black boxes created right next to Bitcoin where re-hypothication, although it's a big, fun word, it really means just printing more Bitcoin than you have. Loaning out 150 Bitcoin when you only have 100. As long as they all don't come calling on you, it doesn't matter. Dan Eave, what do you think about Michael Sailor and his saying that the grown-ups need to come in and custody your Bitcoin? No, I'm with you. I think he still needs to suck up to the traditional finance system because he's so entangled in it. Also, even I started off the attitude when you first hear about Bitcoin in 2020-2013 was like, screw the banks, yeah, screw the banks. But now you've got to realise you don't want to be seen as such an enemy because of the way they're posed up, the regulators. Bitcoin is just doing its thing and it's fine doing it. It's all good riding people up and having a joke, but ultimately, the banks will be in eventually. There seems to be this general move. It's not just an isolated incident with Sailor saying that safe, self-custody is bad. We've had recently Elizabeth Warren saying that it's almost framing it as a criminal thing like that people are even holding their own Bitcoin. The way that sort of comes across, CZ was distancing self-custody not too long ago. Also, ledger with their Shamei secrets sharing amongst these third-party entities. Because I do think that there are people that don't want to trust themselves holding their money. They want someone they can phone up and shout out. They want someone who's going to be responsible for it. We're going to see a lot more kind of funding about self-custody on the basis that you don't know what you're doing. Let us look after it for you and they're just going to try and pry those bitcoins from your self-custody wallet. Obviously, there's things like there's been failures in certain self-custody like the paper wallet thing that we had not too long ago. There's always going to be flaws in whichever system. There's only going to be a matter of time when a bank looking after Bitcoin is going to have some sort of issue where it gets hacked in some way and those funds go missing. Because no one is completely invincible when it comes to that. We've seen even Luke DeShire who lost his bitcoins, you'd have thought that he would have the most secure way of holding Bitcoin is a Bitcoin core developer. Even he was susceptible to having his Bitcoin stolen. We're not invincible people that we can make mistakes. There's going to be a huge play on that from the banking side. To say, don't hold your own Bitcoin trust in us. I still think that's the wrong way to do it, but some people will still want that. They'll want to be able to hand off the risk. Go ahead, Gary. I see your point. I think that in the short term, banks will be custodians for Bitcoin. With all the big brains, if you think about, we just talked about how 15 years ago, the white paper for this thing came out. If you look at the progress that has been made and the acceleration of the progress in the technical Bitcoin space, it comes down to sharing UTXO sets. Lightning is how two of us can share UTXO sets together. More big brains are coming into this. I think as Bitcoin accrues value, it's going to allow for more people to have a lot more time to sit and think and really play into their strengths with might be mathematics and cryptography, where we're going to have solutions to the base chain where more people can control a UTXO than they care right now. It doesn't exist. There's a lot of people out there working diligently to make it exist, but I see that over the long term. We're going to go back to self-custody. The banks doing custody, sure there will be services out there and there's reasons to give your Bitcoin out to somebody else for this, that, or the other. But in the long term, I think that Bitcoin is self-custody without which very few exceptions. It's been very interesting to watch this whole thing with email, blogging, Bitcoin and services. We used to run our own servers. I used to have an account on a Linux machine. I would log in. I had my web page. I had my photos. I had my email. I controlled all of it and I would share it either with a friend who ran the server or company or a school or something like that. You would run everything yourself. Then they started to store everything on the cloud. Everyone was so excited because we were going to store our documents in the cloud and our troubles were going to float away. Really, we just needed these autosave functions where you create a new document. It makes a copy of it. It saves it. You do an update. It makes a copy of it. It saves versions. Teaching people how to use the version control that already exists in their document. Stuff like this would have worked fine. Instead, we stored everything in the cloud which turned out to be someone else's computer. Spoiler alert, the cloud was always someone else's computer. It's so weird to see this transition where I used to have my own web page. I used to have my own photos. Now, everyone wants me to roll it back. They're like, you need to make your own web page again. Your own photos, your own banking server with Bitcoin and with other things and lightning. I think it will happen. I think it's possible. I think it's superior. I think it's harder to build. I think it takes longer. That's probably why we got here with the whole ads supported Facebook, ads supported Twitter. Then the idea that yes, we could just roll our own Twitter with Noster or we could roll our own logging service and all of these things. We could control our own data. We could not have it harvested and not have it aggregated and all the things that did happen over these very strange 10 or 15 years back to when I used to host my own server. Let's move on to the exit question. Will Michael's sailor be excommunicated? I don't think so. I think this is a small deal. But remember, we have chased people out of Bitcoin for far less. Trace mayor once recommended an altcoin. They strung them up and we've never seen them before and his contributions are much missed. Let's go to Gary first. You came in on the sailor bus. Will he be excommunicated? He said good things about banks. I will continue to recommend the sailor series on what is money podcast for anybody that's interested. Having a bad take today doesn't discredit or discount takes you've had in the past. And I think it's still one of the best series. So I'll continue to recommend it. I will be keeping my eyes on mic strategy and Michael sailor though. And maybe I'll change my mind. But the content is good. So I will still continue to chill it. And that's the thing we just don't have to go 100% into these things. Everyone's like Michael sailor is amazing. Bukali is amazing. Safety is amazing. Whoever the new leader of the new cult is they're so 100%. And it's more like I agree with them 70% or I agree with them 50% or sometimes I agree with them. Whereas everyone just rushes in and gives them all of their agreement. Derek is this the end for sailor? Is he going to go back to his millions of dollars in his yacht and all the fun he used to have when he ran startups and had sex parties on his yacht? No one seems to bother to Google anymore even though it's right there on the Google. You know, I think I think he'll be okay. I think maybe he'll transition to having Bitcoin sex parties in the near future. We all say things and we change opinions and we grow over time and we make mistakes and that's what makes us human. And if it turns out that that was the wrong thing to say what matters is is how they act accordingly and what they choose to do about it in the future. So I think he'll be okay. I agree with what you said that we don't need to agree with people 100% of the time we can like some things they say and I think we'll be okay. I think sailor will be okay. Dan Eve is it over as he crossed the line no more Michael Sailor? No, I'm in the rest of the panel. I think you know you can't agree with with everything that someone says overall he's a force for good and you know this is just one opinion on self-custody. So that we sort of seem to collectively disagree with right? So I think he's going to perfume people moaning about about what he said isn't going to stop him right? Nick, he's not going to sit there and go like oh someone moat you know one of the max he's like moaned about me on Twitter. I'm going to give up everything and stop talking about Bitcoin because the good thing about Bitcoin is that you can talk about it and no one can stop you. There's no going to sue you because they disagree with what you said that goes against the company values of Bitcoin or something like that. So yeah I think he will just continue doing doing his thing and yeah he says some odd things sometimes but overall force for good I think overall. Also I think we have to take into account he was on CNBC. So he was talking about banks on CNBC. It's not that bad. It wasn't like you know he was in he was in their territory. He was on their grounds. He's not going to be there like like Derek was saying he's not going to be like I hate all the banks and I'm going to destroy you and all of your finance. We're going to rise up like a Trojan horse. We're going to wreck you all. He's not going to be saying that on CNBC. Maybe in a private conference with like cigars and Brandy in the back room he's going to be like that Bitcoin's going to wreck those banks but he's not going to be saying that publicly right. He's just not you know with his background and that kind of thing. So all right let's move on to prediction or story of the week Dan Eve are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead I'm going to go I'm going to go I'm going to go for something crazy and I reckon there's going to be another little snippet of between now and next Friday right between now next Friday there'll be another snippet of news coming about the ETF because we're just withdrawing closer right so we're going to have weekly kind of drops whether it's going to be a real a real piece of information or another telecoin telegraph blunder and I think it's going to push Bitcoin to 40k I think we've kind of studied out here and I think we could move we could shift to the next the next level but not say this next level talking about just 40k next level Dan making his move against the magic eight ball there opposing the ball Gary do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead yeah I think I'm going to go with prediction and I'm going to go with a percentage prediction I think that we are going to see over 2% global adoption of Bitcoin in the next six months to a year and the reason I say that is because there is sort of an inflection point coming with the ETF with all these other things but also there've been a lot of builders in the Bitcoin space and I've been fortunate enough to to lurk in some of their chats and some of their discord on the technical side and there are a lot of things coming that are going to change how Bitcoin is used how Bitcoin is interacted with and that's really what I think is going to accelerate you know hyperbiccoordination and mass adoption is the people want easy ways to use it and it's coming we need it and it would be really exciting to see all the people into it I'd love to if some more people could get in before the banks we used to always say just if normal people could get some Bitcoin before the banks buy it all that would be awesome and then I'm of course excited by groups like the the BBB the Bitcoin black billionaires they're the best and they spread the word everyone has to kind of talk to their own community like I say I can talk to the computer geeks and the cypherpunks whatever but you know you have to take that knowledge home and talk to your own community because they're not going to trust some outsider guy especially when at the end of his speech he's like you should put your money into Bitcoin and even if it goes down you should keep your money in there they're gonna you know they'd rather hear that for someone they know and trust oh let's go to Derek for a prediction or a story of the week go ahead Derek for a story of the week I want to talk about Noster this past week we had a Noster conference in Tokyo Japan and also in in Hong Kong it was a three day conference just talking about all the great things that are happening in Noster all the the new apps and clients how we can make Noster better and reach the masses and mass adoption and and just volitionists all around there's a lot of content and I would say that if you would like to learn more about Noster watch the watch the interview of Jack Dorsey interviewing Edward Snowden it really puts into perspective why a lot of people in the world need Noster and and one of the the greatest things to come out of that that I that I really like to I can remember off the top of my head is that Jack Dorsey said to the audience you know out on Noster out on Twitter out on YouTube hey you know if you're watching this and you're not here and you have a question for Edward Snowden the you know go ahead and ask and Bitcoin a Causi replied to Jack Dorsey on Noster and if you're not familiar with Bitcoin a Causi they're a community in South Africa similar to Bitcoin Beach and El Salvador where there are grassroots Bitcoin community either's tons of businesses that accept Bitcoin and they focus on education for children and children and youth programs and whatnot so Bitcoin a Causi said what gives you hope and in this crazy world where we have all sorts of things happening and being thrown out of all the time what gives you hope and Edward Snowden replied Noster because Noster is is hope for people all over the world and Noster gives people the chance to experience free and open social communication that is decentralized and is censorship resistant so if you like decentralized and censorship resistant money then you should understand why censorship resistant and decentralized communication is really important and that Edward Snowden interview really should hit home for you so check it out that's fantastic sounds like some great stuff going on with Noster there it's amazing how big it's gotten I remember Ben was discussing it here on the world crypto network a few years ago doing early tutorials on how to use it and I've always been a firm believer that the basic ideas is the core and the truth that we just need to send around text files everything really comes down to text files and databases and if we could just start sending those around and sharing them and no one could stop us from sharing our text files in our databases we could solve all kinds of problems like when the Silk Road went down we also lost the reputation system for buyers and sellers basically a virtual eBay of its time if that had been on Noster or a system like that it could have survived separate from the Silk Road buying and selling website and then many other things where we could keep reputation and store data transfer copy data I think it's really exciting it's surprising in how how many people have stepped up and how big Noster has gotten so I know Ben Ark got to go there so shout out to Ben who got to go to Noster Asia sounds really cool also shout out to the Dogecoin people they had the Doge statue was just unveiled also in Japan so lots been happening in Japan but I think we're running out of time so thanks to everybody for watching be sure to give us a thumbs up down below and until next time