The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. But Bitcoin. Josh Legala from the standard.io. You're muted. Neow. Great. Great. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one, Bitcoin maximalism. Nick Carter, formerly a Bitcoin maximalist, was shown not to be a Bitcoin maximalist this week, investing in a company that was making an authentication start up with a wallet-based altcoin. The Bitcoin community attacked Carter vigorously, resulting in Carter attacking the community back in his own medium piece. Pete Rizzo also wrote a piece for Forbes magazine saying that Bitcoin maximalism is dead, long live Bitcoin maximalism, explaining that Carter seemed to have no replacement for Bitcoin maximalism and didn't seem to see the value in what's become almost a religion among Bitcoiners, sometimes eating steak, sometimes avoiding seed oil, sometimes religious, and generally anti-altcoin. Dan Eave, your thoughts on Bitcoin maximalism? Dead or alive? Well, I think it's always going to be there, but it depends how you define it, right? And how is, I think, the second article that from maximalism is maximalism, maximalism and hope, Jesus. Maximilism is dead, long live by Pete Rizzo. That's probably easier to say. One of the things that's hard to define is what Bitcoin maximalism really is. Now, like I'd consider myself much to the dismay of other people who consider themselves Bitcoin max, but I'm a Bitcoin maximalist. Bitcoin is king, it's the original and only. It's actual sound money and it's hard money. And there's a very good reason why it's here and why it's the strongest currency compared to the other forks of Bitcoin. But at the same time, I think that there's utility in other coins. And whether you see that utility or not agree with it or not, there is utility. It's like that one man's trash is another man's treasure. The fact is that someone finds it useful. There are many people doing transactions on Ethereum. They're not all just random people trying to scam or trying to say that Ethereum is better money than Bitcoin. They're using it for a different purpose. Bitcoin is money. Ethereum is like a thing that you use. It's just a thing, right? It's a thing to do other things like I don't know. I don't see it as money and not really many sensible Ethereum heads that I know that kind of prefers in Ethereum over Bitcoin, even call it money. It seems like it comes a bit more from the Bitcoin camp that like, oh, Ethereum is trying to compete with Bitcoin, but it's fake money. But a lot of people don't see it as money. They see it as just a tool for doing things. I can't even describe myself. But ultimately Bitcoin is why we're all here. Everyone gravitates to Bitcoin. There's probably really very few people who think that Ethereum has got a chance of you serving Bitcoin as by market capital, whatever. And especially now that they're doing that whole burn thing, right? The supply is not necessarily infinite because there's the the the burning thing going on. But ultimately, Bitcoin is the Mac Daddy's, the king and the queen and everything all rolled into one. It does seem a bit odd that Bitcoin kind of taught me a bit about individualism and about, you know, that going against the state as quo, which was the original financial banking system, yet the the some of the maximism we see is very prescriptive, as you said, it's like, you have to eat the steak. If you don't, you know, you have to eat the steak. You've got to avoid the seedleans. You've got to do this and that. Otherwise, you're not a real maximalist. And that just kind of seems a bit silly because it's just kind of, I don't know, it's just being, it's not the, it's going against the free market essence, right? People are free to do these things. They've got their, they've got their freedom to follow certain trends and like things and dislike other things. That's the whole kind of point about being free and having free markets and the markets are deciding that as much as the kind of hardcore, hardcore maximalists hate it, you know, there are people see utility, any theorem and other stuff. So yeah, I don't think it's definitely, maximalism isn't dead. That's for sure. And I think it's only going to grow. It's only going to become more tribal and there's, there will be more fracturing within that as you see with any system, you'll have, you know, you have fractures within the, within the within any sort of little kind of pocket of people that are fanboys or fan girls of certain things. And that's just going to continue forever. But ultimately Bitcoin is here to stay. It's, it's why we're here on the Bitcoin group and, and it's King and Queen and Joker all in one. A Bitcoin maximalist reminds me a lot of one of my favorite logical fallacies, the no true Scottsman logical fallacy. It just goes something like this, no true Scottsman would eat that. No true Scottsman would do that. They just add things to Bitcoin like they added in the meat, the seed oil, the religion, whatever you want to call it. And then they say, you're not a real Bitcoiner unless you do that. That stuff's all kind of nonsense. That's the maximalism I think we could get rid of also reacting to people so negatively on the internet when at a certain point you have to let people make their own mistakes. You have to let them lose their own money. There's almost a paternalism to Bitcoin maximalist where they're trying to protect people. When we all know that we made our own mistakes and that's how we learned, uh, I thought what's strange about, oh, sorry, what's strange about it is that he runs a fund and people are really angry, not at like specifically what kicked it off wasn't that stuff he said. It was like his fund is investing in non Bitcoin stuff. And to me, that's just like, it's almost like, and those people who are hardcore Bitcoin is that are moaning about that. They're not going to be the type of people that put money in that fund. Right. So that's a bit ridiculous. It's almost as ridiculous as like people, the sort of people that phone up and complain about a TV show that they've never even watched. They've just heard that it's bad. And they're like, right, our dear ombudsman, this show blah, blah, blah, blah, blah offended me. It kind of seems like it's a bit of that just a bit over the top of, you know, sort of complaining. I think what really made these people angry is they kind of felt it was a bait and switch that Nick Carter was out there, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, and then all of a sudden one of his companies and one of his investments is not so much Bitcoin. And I think that's the confusion. And I think that he, despite his provocations and the article, he's like, protestations, he's like, I didn't say I was a maximalist. I just did lots of Bitcoin content. I made all this other stuff that no one read like my master's thesis. It's like, great, man, I'll be down in the library reading that tomorrow. What are we talking about here? I think he presented himself as a maximalist while it was useful to him. And then when it wasn't, he flipped to the other side. And now he's all upset that he can't have it in both worlds. And I think that's what he's finding out here. And that's why I would go to this. One of what I thought was the best points in Pete Rizzo's article, Shoutout to Rizzo. As he says here, to understand why someone would support Bitcoin only among cryptocurrencies, you have to understand that this person needs to reject the short term incentive to do the opposite. He talks about how easy it is to start a cryptocurrency or a hedge fund, how no crime in this sector has been prosecuted. No failure is not heaped with a massive reward. The mansions of Puerto Rico are filled with legacy cryptocurrency builders who built nothing, lost investors money, and provided no valuable knowledge to the space. This is why people do Bitcoin Maximism. They've seen all these scams. They're sick of all these scams. And they know that there is an alternative. There is Bitcoin. As Pete Rizzo says here, Bitcoin Maximism has an inherent and valuable answer to all these questions. It asserts that it is immoral to do these things. And it exerts a social penalty of ostracism and ridicule on those who would put their own interest and welfare above Bitcoin. I would say Carter did this with his investments. He fought the community. Then he really fought the community and his medium article, which I can't believe he published, let alone took all the time to type out. It's clearly filled with rage and counterproductive to everything. But he wanted separation from this community that previously he courted previously. He made quote unquote lots of content for and now he's embarrassed by. It's pretty much one of those he wants to have his cake and eat it too. Josh Tagalli, your thoughts on Bitcoin Maximism, Nick Carter and Pete Rizzo? You're muted Josh. Sorry. Yep. Bitcoin has a built-in mechanism where if you don't like the code, if you don't like what what the upgrade is, you can fought it fought off. And we saw that with Bitcoin Cash. So it's got an inbuilt mechanism for you to create an alternative chain, an alternative thing. So the idea that there's only one Bitcoin is also not really to the tune of the ethos I believe. You know, for me, I'm a competition maximalist because competition allows people choice. Now, if you believe that Bitcoin is the best ever, that's fantastic. Go for it. But there are certain things that you can't do that with that. You can't let like stuff that we're building, for instance, can't be done on Bitcoin base. I'm a technologist. I enjoy building technology and and the notion that everything's a scam and everything is failed. It's just not true. But the projects like MakerDi basically revolutionized the idea of decentralized finance and sort of formed, I mean, you know, Bitcoin formed decentralized finance. But the idea of locking up your own assets without trusting it, centralized the party and all of these ideas are just glorious. And they're technology. You shouldn't sit there saying, hey, you're only allowed to do that and let's ostracize them. Because what if someone does take Bitcoin and it goes the wrong direction? What if Bitcoin really goes a total wrong direction that you don't believe in and you decide to fork off? And yet maybe it's a shorter chain, but it becomes its own chain. And now that to you is a better option than the other one. Both survive Bitcoin cash is still around. I don't particularly like the bigger blocks of Bitcoin cash. I think BTC chose the right way and I think the lightning networks the right way to go. But at the same time, I'm glad that the people who did believe that can go and try these big blocks. What I didn't like behind that is sort of faking and saying, this is the real Bitcoin and trying to make the same logo and tricking people that were trying to buy BTC. And, you know, there's this sort of thing, but that's part of this major experiment that we're all running in this world and this open source software. The idea, you know, I got a lot of flak for years, everyone had created me to be quite maxless because when we launched BTC back in 2015, we were Bitcoin only for the longest time. And we kept on getting asked for, hey, we want to get Litecoin, we want to get these other coins because we want to trade that for gold. And after a while, you know, after like four years of running BTC, we decided, you know, what if they want to trade their Litecoin to gold and back to Litecoin, who are we to say no, it's competition, maximumism. If Bitcoin is better money, if you can, if you as a community can do better, then it'll win. So let's stop fighting and shitslinging and really destroying and being toxic about it. Just be better. Just be better. Well, you made a good point about the fact that, you know, the Bitcoin, the fact that Bitcoin can fork is one of its strengths because when you do have a bunch of infighting over a particular idea, you can fork Bitcoin and then you can see how dumb that idea was like with Bitcoin cash and with, you know, with Bitcoin SV or whatever it's called now. So it's actually a strength that you can, you can fork it because it shows you how strong the original chain is, how strong the original concept is and why the original concept is exactly the way it is. Yeah. And the idea that there aren't any other technical or logical use cases that stem away from the original code base is, I don't know, Eve. I mean, it's at the greatest of levels. I mean, Bitcoin cannot do everything and I wouldn't want it to do everything. I wouldn't want Bitcoin to change its code base to run all sorts of smart contracts and stuff because the attack vector, that surface becomes far too big. It's beautiful at doing what it does. And hey, if the whole community decide to stretch it out to do more, that who might have stopped it either. So and maybe I would decide to fork away and stick with the original thing of what it is now. But having that ability to stay very pure on Bitcoin is great and having smart contracts and other more crazy, more wider attack surface technology and a different chain. Hey, it's fantastic and you can't stop it. It's just going to be like that. And certainly with the product that he was investing in and authentication token, it would make a lot of sense to have your own project, to have your own wallet. You could have total control of those tokens. You don't want to sell those tokens in advance. You don't want someone to corner the market on those tokens. There's no real reason to include it into Bitcoin. And as Josh was saying about expanding the attack vector and you were talking earlier about forks, one of the largest and most important forks of Bitcoin, although it's not a direct software fork, but it's a fork and ideas, is when Vitalik broke off and created a theorem. Vitalik Booterin wrote for Bitcoin magazine, the original Bitcoin magazine. Vitalik Booterin was a regular at the San Francisco Bitcoin beat up and he approached the Bitcoin developers about creating Ethereum as a layer on top of Bitcoin. They rejected this idea because of what Josh said. They didn't want to expand the attack vector. They didn't want to adjust the way that Bitcoin worked in the same way during the scaling wars. The small blockers didn't want to expand the blocks leading to the Bitcoin cash fork. So people can have other ideas. They just have to go out and do them like Vitalik did with Ethereum. Also mentioning Vitalik, he's the one that stuck us with this Bitcoin maximalism name in the first place. And like most attempts to label people, it was indeed an attack on Bitcoiners and a successful one. Vitalik was able to draw conclusions between Bitcoiners and not liking new ideas. He was able to tie the Bitcoiners up into a little box to where people like tone veys who came from the traditional finance world and should have seen DeFi coming, should have seen the value of these tokens, should have seen all kinds of things that he was blinded to because of Bitcoin maximalism. And he helped blind the rest of us. We all went along. We were all Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, because it is simpler to be maximalist. But when you're simple, you miss so many things. And I'm all going to go ahead. And I don't also disagree with people that are like Bitcoin's the only one. That's the only thing I invest in. I don't want anything else. It's beautiful. It's perfect. It's what I want. It's money. It's the best money. Fantastic. Go for it. That's great. That's a great setting. Bad times create Bitcoin maximalist. Bitcoin maximalist create good times. Good times create shitcoin. That shitcoin is create bad times. The cycle continues. But yeah. It was also interesting as Vitalik labels us as Bitcoin maximalism. I was reminded of the battle for the Constitution where there were the Federalists and the anti-Federalists. Obviously, Federalist is a much better name. So it's an incredible advantage to be able to name your opponents and to have it stick. Interestingly enough, Vitalik is actually using maximalism now as a positive in his recent article about how he only carries a 40-liter backpack through this world. He said that you should become a uniclo maximalist and a USBC maximalist without the hint of irony. Any more on this topic, Dan? It's a really interesting topic. I think it's not going to go away. The community is going to keep talking about this. I think Nick Carter made a huge mistake in his big, angry article. Pete Rizzo pulled him back some, but he's still gone well over the edge. You're never going to win attacking back at the Internet trolls. And then at the same time, all the claims of how he never purported to be a maximalist. It seems like he was Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin. And then now he's like, oh, so what? I invested in some other thing. And as we know, the community is not going to accept that. But ultimately, is that a bad thing? A lot of people have the revelation after playing with shitcoins that they should have just stuck with Bitcoin. And likewise, Bitcoin is, may delve off and say, well, Bitcoin can't do everything right now for a good reason. It's slow moving in terms of how it's updated because it needs to be absolutely solid, because any drop in that solid, so I've got any drop in that solidity. As in, I've got not the, I'm not referring to the Ethereum even, but anything drops that solid appearance of Bitcoin and that 99.99% uptime and how amazing an actual piece of technology it is, is going to draw down on people's heads. So sometimes people will do V8 from it and say, well, actually Bitcoin can't do X or Y right now. So I'm going to mess around with these other chains and use that. I think the other thing is that is that Briso's article that mentions, which you, you put on as well, is, it makes a very good point is that unfortunately, there are a lot of scams, like a huge number of scams and like in the general crypto world. And it's not nice seeing people seeing loved ones, you know, go down the, you know, you want to see them go down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and to just chat to you about Bitcoin. But the number of people I've told people about Bitcoin and they've said, oh, you heard of this bit connect and you're like, oh, Jesus, what have I done? Yeah, and you feel guilt for it, right? You feel this like overwhelming sadness. Like what have I done? How much money did you put in? Yeah, but you know what, you know what? There's just, there are so many scams in Bitcoin as well. There's you go on YouTube at any time. It's like send your Bitcoin here and we'll send you two back. If there was a world where it was only Bitcoin, the scammers would figure out how to take the Bitcoin from you as well. The idea that it's only the altcoins, where the scams are and Bitcoin's the holy grail of only good goodness is also just not true. It's, it's, it's just not. And that goes even further back than those YouTube scams, Josh. Remember like pirate at 40 other people that were doing Bitcoin collections and things. You'd send them all your money and then they'd send you some back. There's been scams in Bitcoin since the very beginning, even just the idea of, you know, stealing someone else's content, putting your QR code on it, stealing someone's article, putting your information on there. It's really easy to try to scam people out of your Bitcoin. But today I have people on Instagram impersonating my mad Bitcoin account, sending messages to all my friends saying, Hey, you want to invest in my project? And it doesn't matter what project is, the scammers will always be there. It's really easy to add a number to the end of my name or to alter it and to do this to many others as well. And it's always going to go. It's going to continue. It's going to continue. It's just, you know, it's just a wider, more imaginative scam landscape with all the results. And I'm not saying it's good. It's, it's, it's, it's horrific. But it's all about education and podcasts like this to teach people what scams look like. Scammers, it's a constant arms race. Well, and to follow up on something that Dan said, yes, it's true that Bitcoin might be able to do everything in the future. Things like the lightning network, the layer to liquid, other things like this. There's, there's some form of NFTs on Bitcoin now on RareToshi. There was always counter party with NFTs and other things like that. But if you want to make a project, there's, you know, we remember that phrase from a dead poet's society, Carpe Diem, sees the moment, sees the day, right? And it was only gosh, about five years ago now that I wanted to make my own baseball cards on the blockchain. And I couldn't do it on Bitcoin like Josh said with his project, the standard. It just, it wouldn't work. But I, I talked to technical people. We went over the options and Ethereum seemed like a good fit. We even considered making a copy of Ethereum, Curio Ethereum that we could have mined and controlled and had all the power on. But we kind of figured out no one would mind it. It might die, right? Going with Ethereum was a good idea for our Curio cards that were like baseball cards, like NFTs, collectible items. We were able to launch it on Ethereum in a relatively short amount of time. And because we launched in the time that we launched, Curio cards are now a famous NFT. People collect them and they buy them. People are trying to get false. They were the first, the first art NFT. It's a little unclear. There's a project called Ethereum that sold game tiles. And there's a project called Pixel Map that sold like a million dollar homepage, like pixels on a page. And those are both predate us, but Curio cards does predate crypto punks, which was thought for a long time to be the first art NFT on Ethereum. And if I and my team had just waited for Bitcoin to come of age so that we could put our NFTs on Ethereum or on Bitcoin, sorry, no one would care. No one would care at all because we wouldn't be first. We wouldn't be in that poll position. You have to do the project when you feel the time is right. When you have the team together and you have to do it on the technology available, you can't just wait for Bitcoin to be better. And unfortunately, it's very difficult to get new ideas inserted in a Bitcoin, which is probably good for the strength of Bitcoin, but is bad for anyone like trying to add to it like Vitalik or Josh or myself and the Curio cards crew. And what's really scary for a lot of people is when they're in a community that shun and put other people down for certain choices in technology, then it's almost like a cult. You can't leave it. So you end up not doing your idea because you're the cult of people that are around you, have told you are that sinful. And then you don't do it. And that's a shame. If you have a legitimate idea that's really you believe in and you want to do. And it's really hard. When I came out with the standard, I really looked hard to how to build this on Bitcoin. I couldn't do it. And I was really frightened of the wrath I would get from all my friends who were Bitcoin Maximists. And at the end of the day, I just went, you know what? I don't care. I have to build this because I think it's the future of stablecoins. And I think it's a really great idea and a great thing to do for the world. So let's see. And I had very much the same thing at the time, Josh. I was doing shows daily with tone veys and Jimmy Song who are both very hardcore Bitcoin Maximists and neither of whom invested or bought any of my Kirio cards or thought it was a good idea at all. Yet still I did the project. And now people are still talking about that project that we did. They're still collecting them. They're buying and selling them. They're a real thing. And they're interesting. They said because they were in a first position because we did them early. And even then, you know, we talked about it for six months. We worked on it for a year before that. Like it wasn't the timing worked out, but we almost didn't make it. And if we'd waited for some kind of new technology that again, we couldn't control. We can't get things added to Bitcoin easily. No one can. That's part of the strength of Bitcoin. But that's also part of the weakness. We lose a lot of these cool projects like NFTs, like Ethereum, like ICOs if you want to go back that far. That could have been on Bitcoin as well. And maybe we're the poor for it. I don't know. And just round it back off. That's not to say I don't believe that Bitcoin is like the king, the prince and the princess all wrapped up into one like you said, Dan. But it definitely leads the price. It leads the price. Well, it has. That doesn't mean it will forever. But right now it does. It's still for me the best technology in terms of, you know, pure, like pure crypto in terms of its purity. But I think there is definitely use case of stablecoins. I think there's definitely use cases in collateralizing and using smart contracts. That they're such amazing stuff out there using DeFi and in the micro lending space in the real world to get real yield. There's so many cool things happening. And just to sort of ride it all off like no, we have to only use Bitcoin like network. It's a very unfortunate thing. And I think, you know, whatever, if people live out good on them, but I'm not. Well, I hate to celebrate or to interfere with everyone's victory party on Twitter. But the altcoins are not dead. Every time this seems to happen, Bitcoin goes back up and the altcoins follow Bitcoin back up. I don't know if I'd go past the top five or the top 10 wherever you want to set your line. That's fine. But usually these projects recover right alongside Bitcoin sometimes in even greater percentages. So I don't know about the maximum. I've seen it come and go dozens of times. It's interesting. I've seen the most interesting Twitter comments. I've seen on this is that you know the bear markets over when Bitcoin sacrifices one of its heroes. So once again, we burnt another hero at the stake. And if that's what's necessary to make the price go up, I guess it's a worthwhile thing. But I also don't think that Nick Carter reacted well with his angry article, which is really long and really angry and not going to help him. I mean, he seems to think that it helps him. And I don't think it does. Dan, do you have more on this if you want to go to the exit question? Well, I'm intrigued about the exit question now. I did my captain. I did my death hard to site reference. I didn't think of an exit question. I'm trying to think of one. Josh, what do you think is is Bitcoin maximum dead? Is it over or will it become more popular? As Rizzo was saying, there is a lot of value to it as this kind of religion, as this kind of thing to believe after you've lost all your money in an ICO, thing to believe after you've lost all your money in an altcoin, after you've been scammed by BitConnect or one coin, maybe then you discover Bitcoin maximum. Does it have staying power? Or is it something that goes away when all the mainstream gets into this when they're just using Bitcoin and they don't even know what it is? Will they even think of themselves as maximists? I think it stays around. There will always be Bitcoin maximists. And just like there will always be theory maximists and dash maximists. There's people that really stick to a project and that's their project and they love it and they love the community that around it. There will be board eight maximists who think that that's the only thing and eventually all bread and circuses will be paid for in board apes. But the fact of the matter is it's not going away. People love it. Bitcoin was the first that there will most definitely be people that believe only in Bitcoin and good on them. And Dan, what do you think? Pax, BitCoinia, do all roads lead to Rome? Maximism is here to stay long term. It's part of the defense mechanism and you've got to have the people that are defending it to the hills. And really, you do need them because there are a lot of scams out there. One of the biggest things I think that is a threat to even Bitcoin is the scams that have stemmed from projects that have been associated with Bitcoin, from BitConnect to one coin. A lot of these people that you speak to, they've got burns. They say, oh, yeah, I invested in cryptocurrency. And then you invested in a shit coin. That's what you invested. Bitcoin is completely different. It's a completely different ecosystem altogether. And so I think Bitcoin needs this for its defense mechanism. It needs people fervently defending it and making sure that they're doing Satoshi's work. Blessed be to tell everyone about all the scams out there. Because that's the other thing is that in terms of scams, people can use Bitcoin to scam people. They can use Ethereum to scam people. They can use XYZ to scam people. But Bitcoin wasn't built because of a pyramid type Ponzi scam or it wasn't built by someone who wanted to get a load of investors money and then not produce a product. Like it went, happened the other way around. Bitcoin was a product that was created as a product of the financial crisis to resolve those issues. And then it grew from that. Whereas a lot of the projects you see nowadays, they go, they grab a load of money and they don't produce something. And there's a lot of those out there. There's really genuine ones that are doing really good in the world, but there are a lot of bad ones as well. So I think it's good that there is this defense. But do you think that as a whole, and I'd love to see the data on this, that more people have lost their money through altcoins, the made money through altcoins? I think that it's a percentage number where I think you have to say maybe 10% of the people in altcoins killed it, but 90% of the people lost their money. So it's hard to weigh whether that's good or not. Overall, I've probably lost more money trading Bitcoin for sure than I have making bank off of some crazy altcoins. I'm not going to like, and I'm like 95% like Bitcoin is the thing. And altcoins are just a funny game to play pretty much. Bitcoin has probably lost me more money. And especially the early days, right? I've got Stung by Butterfly Labs. I've got Stung by Blocker Reptors. I've got Stung by basically every mining software in 2013. So many exchanges went down. So many wallets went down. Software stolen gone. Yeah, my God. That's not Bitcoin's fault. That's people who used, it's people who used the tool. Bitcoin is that it goes back to Bitcoin being the tool, but people using that tool incorrectly is what got people stung. But yeah, I think people, back to Churchill says rightly, will Bitcoin be rugged? You know, obviously not. You know, obviously not. Although you could say that large whales can jump on Bitcoin and right now, there's always the Satoshi coins, right? We always have that fear that Satoshi comes back and moves his coins or sells his coins. That's the biggest thing. Anything's the coin. Yeah, there's a lot of coins to suddenly move. You know, but what, what, one million out of, what 19 million, we are now, that's a lot of coins to it. And if Satoshi came back, that's the biggest threat. Or if, if I say Satoshi came back, if Satoshi ended up being, I don't know, the CIA who created Bitcoin as a, as a hedge against the US dollar losing its grip on the world. So they created this world currency and just kind of stirred it and poked it a bit, but kept a big bunch of it, a million just to make sure that once it became the global world currency in X years time, that they would have one million out of the 21 million supply. I've said you that, then they wouldn't have sold Ross Olbrich's stash. Ah, but that's, that's part of the game. That's part of the sacrifice. Yeah, that's assuming that the government's acting as one hand, not as like many hands. Yeah. That's the difference between its government, government, maximalism, right? So you've got some of them that are pure maximalists. And then you've got some of them like, oh, we can sell some of this, this coin. Maybe they don't even know, right? Maybe there's, you know, like these divisions of the CIA that don't know what each other are doing and then end up doing the spider man thing like we caught you and they're like, we all got you. And then you're like, we're both working for the government. Yeah. Absolutely. Now, while, while I think Bitcoin maximalism is here to stay, I'm never really certain about these things where you have to go 100% or you have to go all in or as they said, inappropriately in the past in the movie, Tropic Thunder, you don't want to go full R-tard, right? And as the Dalai Lama said in his book, How to Practice, Buddhism is a cafeteria. You can take parts of it off the shelf and if they work for you, great. If you like meditation, all right. If you're not into reincarnation, that's fine. Other religions are supposed to be 100%. But often what you see is people don't follow those religions. Just like with Bitcoin maximalism, I think we need to have a little bit more of an open mind. Maybe be 90, 10, be 70, 30, something like that where you're mostly Bitcoin maximalist, that you can be into other things. As I said, the last time I was interviewed in one of the very few articles written about me, Hottel Plus Profits. Right now everyone was like burning me at the stake when the article came out. But now, if you Hottel Plus Profits, when we were crazy up, if you sold anything, you're probably in a better position financially than if you rode the whole roller coaster up and down. Hottel Plus Profits Bitcoin Maximism Light, maybe 80, 20, right? I like some other things. If there was anything I was going to like, it would probably be an authentication project with its own wallet. For the reasons that you would understand because you don't want your authentication tokens hacked, you don't need a monetary force on your authentication tokens. Much like I really thought Ethereum should have been, if you're going to sell smart contracts, you can sell them from your own website for like 10 bucks a contract. They don't need to be on a market where the contracts are now $1,000 or whatever it is. But I think this debate is going to be ongoing. I think it's an interesting one. But I don't think that Nick Carter will be around for the next debate. It looks like he's chosen his own way and you never fight the trolls. You never feed the trolls. It's going to be a disaster on his Twitter feed for a lifetime. And I have nothing to do with it. If I could stop it, I would. But oh no, they're after you now, Nick. And writing that big article is not going to make it go away. There's no amount of logic that can get you out of this. Moving on to issue two. Bitcoin is on course for its biggest weekly gain since March. That's right. The price of Bitcoin is back. If you call 21,000 back, it briefly traded above 22,000. But Bitcoin does seem to be controlled by broader forces imposed by all of us in a tough macro environment with a hawkish Federal Reserve says the founder of Go Go Protocol, whatever that is. Josh Legala, what about the price of Bitcoin? It's up a little bit. Some of the altcoins are following. Have we reached the bottom? Is the nightmare over? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think this is a little, little hick along the way still down. I don't know why. I hate to be the bearer bad news. I hope it's the bottom. I hope it's the bottom, you know, but I hope it's different than reality. You can smoke, hope you're more you want. It won't change anything. You just be lying in a ditch, in the corner shaking from too much hope in. But I do feel that we've got lower to go. These are sort of if you look, it's very steppy. It sort of steps down. It will go back up, drop again, go back up. We're just in that mode. The reason being that I believe is that there is a lot of leveraged crypto right now ready to snap up. If people can force the price lower and buy that stuff under spot, it's just about knocking that next, that next domino down. And so I think there's a lot of hungry whales ready to, ready to want to eat more. You know, a lot of people blame the whales, but generally what happens, you just need some sort of tip in sentiment. And then the mass becomes the whale, the crowd becomes the whale. And so yeah, let's see, I hope it's the bottom, but I doubt it. This is the bad news Bitcoin group continuing. Last week everyone was bearish and wrong. Dan, eve your thoughts on the price of Bitcoin? Well, I'm still thinking we've got a bit way, a bit of way to go, right? Maybe slightly up, but I don't know, I think the world's still in kind of craziness. There's still the Ukraine thing going on. There is obviously on the counter inflation and all time high and crazy people saying, let's print more money to counter inflation because they obviously are crazy. But my big takeaway, forget about the price. What's funny is that and the thing that really stood out for me about that article was and it's good that you picked up on it when it came to said Gary, doodah, doodah, founder of GoGo protocol. And I suddenly thought, who reached out to him? This is Yahoo Finance. And I know what happens. I know I worked for an ICO that turned out to be a scam, unfortunately, in 2017, and I found a runoff with all the money. But what basically happened was that I was sat in my whilst working for this ICO, this unfortunately, scam ICO in 2017 when I was a bit more dumb and I was just doing some work and someone phoned me up and they said, hey, I'm so and so from the daily, this is money from the daily express or daily mail, something like that. And they said, oh, can I ask you a few questions of, you know, calling to interview you. And I was like, okay, this is how the blue seems really weird. And so the question started off seeming logical and then eventually you moved on to something like, how many Bitcoin you own? And suddenly that got my backup. And I was like, oh, okay, this is like, this is a scam. And so after giving all these positive sort of quotes on or speaking about Bitcoin, I started going, yeah, basically you want to avoid Bitcoin altogether. It's a complete scam. You'll lose your money and blah, blah, blah. And I went really like downhill and just kept on giving fake answers and just saying really bad stuff and finished the call and was like, few I dodged a bullet there. And then the CEO of the scam I see, I was working for phoned me up about an hour later going, hey, did the daily mail phone you? Because I had arranged an interview. Oh my god. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's what it was. Yeah, it went really well. And yeah, so that's basically what they do is all of these places, they shamelessly pay people to quote you. They'll phone you up. They'll go like, oh, hey, you paid us a bunch of money. I'm going to quote you in an article. So that's why you see these random names and you're like, who the hell's this person? I don't know them. And it's because they basically pay you to put you in the article. You pay them to put them in the article. Scam 101. It is funny, Dan. I was listening to something about Barry recently. And they were talking about those press junkets where they ask the movie people, all the questions. And Bill Hader was saying, he was like, yeah, first the questions will be about your show. And then they'll throw you a wild card like, what do you think about the situation in Ukraine? And there's nothing good that you can say as an actor. If you say that anything at all, you're going to be destroyed for it. If you downplay it, if you upplay it, whatever you do. So I imagine these Bitcoin interviews about the same thing. They ask you a bunch of normal questions, then they get to the hammer question. And that's the one that they're going to use. All the normal ones they're just going to throw out they'll never talk about. Yeah. And now your chance to compete against the magic eight ball, the travel size edition predictor of predictors, prognosticator of prognosticators, who I think dodged the question last week. Didn't go bearish or bullish, preventing any kind of comparison. And avoiding being wrong, right? The ball is never wrong, especially when it dodges the question. Josh Shagalla higher or lower. Try next time. No push. No push. Well, we've just been we've just been on a massive upswing. So I would say, I sound like such a Debbie downer, but I think down. The depressing Bitcoin group, Dan Eve, higher and lower. No, I'm I'm I'm I'm quashing dreams here is down. I'm going to continue to be a permaball and often frequently wrong. So I'm going to go higher. But now the ball. Here we go. Higher or lower Bitcoin ball. It says, will the will the price of Bitcoin be higher? It says, ask again. We all saw that coming. Let's let's you know, we'll do it. What it says, we'll ask again. Normally, we don't do this, but this is a special issue. You watch, it's going to say the same thing. Okay, so here we go. Really good shake. Sometimes causes bubbles. Okay, will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Outlook good. Outlook good. The ball is a doesn't want to say so right away, but in the end, it is positive. So outlook good. Obviously, obviously, magic eight ball is financial advice. You should take it straight. You know, you're going to have any triangle you ever draw. Oh, and remember, the best chart right now is the rainbow chart. I didn't we didn't bring that issue in, but there's another issue where a guy goes to ball against a plan B and all that. And he's like, all you had to do is follow the rainbow. And that was that was years ago. They made a good moon math. But the rainbow kind of looks pretty better. Right? Now that we mentioned it, the rainbow is looking good. And doesn't hasn't stock to flow kind of now been adjusted to look more they more rainbow like that's what they say. He's added in the rainbow. And of course, he's always right except when he's wrong. For those that don't know, if you've got a moon math dot win. And it's the Trololo's 2014 logarithmic regression progression, and it doesn't seem to be it seems to be online but not really. But it is that top one, it's it's very good. The other ones below it isn't that good. But the one on the top that's always been the one looked at is so spot on. Usually it's working. I don't know maybe your browser works. I can see it. Yeah, I can see moon math dot win. Moon math and rainbow charts. Yeah, it's looking pretty. It looks like the the plug-ins probably blocked on mine, but the Bitcoin rainbow chart as it says here is a way of looking at long term price movements disregarding the daily volatility noise. The color bands follow a logarithmic regression introduced by Bitcoin talk user Trololo in 2014, but otherwise arbitrary and without any scientific basic as you can see from the image here, you can see how the Bitcoin chart price seems to touch the top of the rainbow. Go down to the bottom, touch the top again to the bottom and so forth, but it's not scientific, it's completely arbitrary and yet it seems to be predicting the price a lot better than these so-called experts with their triangles and their I don't know they must have bigger eight balls. This must be a small one. They are huge eight balls. Really huge. Anyway, moving on to issue three ETFs again. Pro shares Bitcoin short ETF grows over 500% in one week with now 3,811 Bitcoins betting against the price just up from 937 Bitcoins on June 27th. Oh, they're going to do well. Wall Street journal editorial slams the SEC's bewildering Bitcoin ETF denials. It's interesting how they've approved future Bitcoin ETFs, future short Bitcoin ETFs, but not spot Bitcoin ETFs almost as if they were I don't know racist against Bitcoin somehow predisposed against Bitcoin. As Hester Pierce SEC commissioner said, we should have approved a Bitcoin ETF long ago with each passing day the rationale that we have used in the past for not approving seems to grow weaker. Dan Eve, we talk about Bitcoin ETFs all the time and we have for years. Will we finally see a spot Bitcoin ETF in the United States now that the Wall Street Journal and one of the SEC commissioners have come out in favor of the idea in fact even mocking the idea that we don't have one and what's so bad about Bitcoin? You're trading diamonds and gold and silver and stocks and all these other things in ETF. Why not Bitcoin? Well, the thing about the market manipulation as well, I see that as just ridiculous because on a wider scale, even say the oil industry just choosing to release more oil into the market or not is kind of market manipulation, right? It's still something that can be gained. It's still something that you can have a consortium that decides when they want to increase supply or reduce it so that I think that has an effect on things that can also be gained. Bitcoin is growing to the stage where you need to be at such a big player to be able to manipulate that it's surpassing a lot of the other markets. So I don't know. The fact is that we need a spot ETF for people who want an underlying, even though they're holding it via a third party, but at least at the Bitcoin being held, it's being actually traded rather than via futures. I do know I've been swung around from the last show about how a short ETF was actually needed and I've been reading it a bit shorter, a bit more and it really is definitely useful for hedging, especially in a business that uses it for cash flows day in day out and has fear bills to pay. You need to need consistency, right? You need to be able to forecast properly. But for spot ETFs, I think it's very illogical, I think, to me at this stage that they have rejected them. It's still much better to own your own Bitcoin and to hold your own Bitcoin. And I think the issues with the high re-hypothication issues that we've seen from the domino effect from three-hour or capital and how that's affected Celsius and Voyager and the other companies, that's kind of highlighted the need to hold your own private keys. But for people that want kind of light exposure, they don't want to do that whole. I'm holding the Bitcoin myself. They want to use a trusted third party. There's still going to be as much as we can preach about running a Bitcoin node, there will be people that want to do that. There's people that want to put that trust in other people that they're going to manage it correctly. So yeah, I think it's a long time coming and it will come eventually. But I don't know. It's, I think it needs more force behind it than just a few people. Well, I think a short ETF is needed so we can take all their money. But I saw a tweet recently that said that if the spot ETF is approved, there's literally billions of dollars waiting to invest into Bitcoin in people's retirement account held by large companies that don't want to hold their own Bitcoin. They don't want to buy and sell it and they never want to see a QR code in their life. Those people are still waiting for a Bitcoin ETF. They've been waiting since the price was a thousand. We've talked about ETFs dozens of times on this show. Go look it up in the archives. I think we need one. I think it'd be great to have one. I do think it's starting to look like discrimination against Bitcoin by not providing the ETF. And it just makes no sense. Let people invest their money. Let them win. Let them lose. Let the market decide. Don't hold back more access to this asset, which has been an asset since the beginning when we started talking about it. And the rest of Wall Street now agrees with us. We just need this SEC to move forward. Josh Legala, what do you think about the Bitcoin ETF? Are you immune to it? Yeah, it is very weird. You have the Inbesco currency shares. They do Japanese yen. They do euros. They do a bunch of stuff. They even do it. There's a wisdom tree or something. There's another few ETFs that do pure currencies. So it's weird. Just what are you doing, guys? I know what they're doing. They're protecting the legacy banking system from a massive exodus. That's where I feel it's headed. But that's just me. I don't know. Maybe it's not true. Maybe they really are trying to protect the investor. Well, you can always trust the legacy financial system. Exit question, will we get a Bitcoin spot ETF in six weeks, six months, or never, Dan Eve? You're muted now. Six months over over never. That's for sure. It's not going to be six weeks, but you know, I don't think it's going to be never. So I have to be six months. Josh Legala, six weeks, six months, or never. It'll be at the top of the bull market so that all these billions can rush in. And then it'll basically dump everyone who lose their money. And then they'll make it all illegal. And say, and I'll see if we try it. It's never too late for Bitcoin ETF. Let's see. Moving on to issue three. Bitcoin miners struggle with a crypto price decline, rising energy cross, and an increase in mining difficulty. The Bitcoin miners who are probably also holding a lot of Bitcoin probably wish they sold some that HODL plus profits idea. Sounds so controversial. And now the miners say that they're in the decline and worried of the crypto winter. The daily revenue of the industry plummeted to $18 million from a peak of $62 million in November. And yet the difficulty to mine Bitcoin keeps rising. It's almost as if people keep mining Bitcoin regardless of if it's profitable or not. And those who really have their site set on the future can hold that Bitcoin until it's a good time to sell. Josh Legala, what do you think about Bitcoin miners continuing to mine even though they might not be making as much money? Will this eventually lead to massive drops in the Bitcoin hash rate, making Bitcoin weaker and open to attack? No, Bitcoin is far over secure. And yeah, the article's funny. It's like, ooh, they're struggling yet. The hash rate keeps going up. It's kind of like hang on a minute. But this is Jeff Bezos's game. This is the sort of game he played with Amazon. He was unprofitable for many years. He held on. He tried to get more and more investment in while he basically built the network effect. In a similar way, a lot of the Bitcoin miners, they're spending investor cash while they're holding the Bitcoin, using the investor cash to pay for their electricity. And also hunting for cheaper renewables because that are going to waste rather than buying oil and coal and the dirty stuff they'd rather find, you know, big waterfalls that are just constantly going or heat that's coming out of the ground and turn some turbines with it. And so, you know, it's quite phenomenal seeing people hunting for cheaper and cheaper electricity through these times. But yeah, mining is an extraordinarily hard game. By the way, it wasn't even profitable at 30 bucks when Bitcoin was 30 bucks. You had to play the exact same game back then when Bitcoin was at 30 bucks and you got 50 Bitcoin for each block. You still had to hold those Bitcoin for at least, I don't know, four or five months before they were more profitable than the power you were using at the time. So it's been the same game. It's a pure algorithm that needs to be sorted out on the business model. And once they do, if they can decide how much they hold in reserve to pay for the power. And if they can find cheap power, they'll make a profit. Much like Blake used to say all the time, it's all about time the miners who have enough money and who have thought about this game long enough, like Josh said, those who can afford to hold for maybe five years or 10 years will be handsomely rewarded. We can only dream of getting a 50 Bitcoin block reward. That sounds ridiculous today. And it'll be even more ridiculous in the future. And five years, 10 years, that's not very long. If you have a good plan for your mining company, if you're not just mining to pay the power to mining to pay the power, you're probably not going to make it. So I do think it's just about time preference. And they need to go on a longer time horizon. As they said in the movie Fight Club, on a long enough time horizon, the price of Bitcoin always goes up. Dan, Eve, your thoughts on the miners and their trouble. Well, it goes, I think to a very good point, that, sorry, well, both of you make your points, but just specifically about Amazon, but working in a deficit until it reached the stage where it was making profit. And it's the same with Facebook, right? They didn't have a good at revenue model. And so they relied on building that network effect, that Metcalfs law and building the value in the size of the network rather than just the pure profit they can come from advertising and data mining. And at the moment, the average hash rate causing to be info charts over the last 24 hours is 220 exerhashes, which has only been ever higher than 224, about one, two, three, four, five, six, about seven times in history and all of this year as well. So the actual mining hash rate is increasing. And of course, the difficulty is going to be increasing because there's more miners that invest in the future. They may not be making money now, but if they hold onto some of that Bitcoin, then it will, in theory, be worth more in the future, especially as we're looking for more innovating over more useful ways of and cheaper ways of mining, sorry, creating electricity, being becoming more innovative about where we're plonking those Bitcoin mining farms. So ultimately, if you can, as long as you've got the investment to hold onto by the equipment and then to hold on to pay the costs and then hold onto some of the Bitcoin, I think you're going to be in profit, ultimately. And yeah, I remember in 2013, there was no when I was trying to block a blocker up to cubes and the rest of it, it was very touch and go. It was like the profit margins were extremely slim, like really ridiculously slim. But if you'd have just mined and then held on for that little bit extra, covered your costs and then held on, you'd be insanely in profit. And so that's the long term game that these mining companies are going for. It's not all about short-term games, it's not all about just buying and then hoping that it pumps the next day. It's about buying, investing in the equipment long term and changing your time preference. It's interesting. The most profitable mining strategy is probably to forget some of your Bitcoin on an old computer and find it years later. That's a great way to win. Have some of Mt. Gox. And I think that goes well into the next issue, which is a bonus issue we just added issue for Bitcoin, faces Mt. Gox Black Swan as trustee prepares to unlock 150,000 Bitcoin at just the right time. Mt. Gox always coming through for Bitcoin as it did in the past. Certainly the Midas trading engine will launch soon. They'll add Litecoin. It's going to come back with Brock Pierce as the owner. It's going to be the biggest company in the world. You'll never see the end of Mt. Gox, but we might finally see the end. I sure hope they stop sending me those emails. I checked my account. I think I had 75 cents in Bitcoin. I don't think I'm going to get my quarters back. Josh Shagalla, you love Mt. Gox stories more than anyone else. Do you think that they're finally going to pay the people out? And has it happens in Bitcoin? Will it cause a major financial crisis as all of these people I suppose get their money back and sell immediately? What do you think? Well, they've actually done surveys on what will happen because the emails have been leaked many times from Mt. Gox. The surveys have come back. What would you sell? Primarily, the only thing people sell is Bitcoin Cash because you also get the Bitcoin Cash. So if I was to be called Cash, I would be a little bit frightened. And you're like, what else could go wrong? But I think the interesting thing is that it is happening. I actually, one thing I am scared of is we've been waiting all of these years since 2014. And what's to say there won't be some that fingered employee, the trustee that accidentally sends it to a wrong wallet. And it happens to be his own wallet or whatever. I don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. I'm waiting for the... I've got to... I'm hoping that something will happen because I lost a lot of money in that one. But I just don't count it as being there until it's there. And I think it's at least... It's at least honorable that they've gone through all this time and tried to make it clear up as much as they can. I've got to say that. But in another way, I see hacks along the way like BitFinex just solve it by basically tokenizing the debt. And then doing wacky crypto methods of recovering that stuff. And then paying back users with trading fees. But also devaluing their own token quickly and buying them all back so that they didn't have as much debt. Like crazy crazy sort of decentralized finance stuff that they pulled and managed to get away with it. But at least, you know, MacOx has done the hard yards. They're trying to get people as much as they can back. And let's see. Let's see if it happens. I'm not holding my breath. But I'll be happy to see something happen, especially for all those early Bitcoin. As I know, a lot of them are extremely depressed. Every time they see the word Bitcoin, they want to throw up because they had... They were in early. They had early. They loved it. They're passionate. And they got pulled. I do think that's a very excellent question, Josh. Does the Japanese government and the bankruptcy system actually have the ability to send out 150,000 Bitcoin successfully to the right people without making any mistakes at all? Any mistakes. The media just seems to assume this is just going to happen and it'll go out fine. But obviously they've screwed everything up so far. They've taken years and years and years for this bankruptcy case. They've sent me at least 20 emails about my 75 cents. Dan Eave, do you think MacOx will crash the market? And as Josh asks, will they even manage to distribute these coins? I think that's something I've never thought about before is the technicalities of now redistributing after what, 2013? Was it 2013 or 2012? It went down. That's a long time. It's a long time. And to be able to get in touch with all the people involved in the court case, make sure you've got the right address. Make sure even the most recent address that was given is the right address because everyone always compromises their private keys all the time. There's always someone that misplaced. They sent an email two days ago and everyone has to update their addresses. Oh, that's good. At least they're staying on the ball. This may seem crazy. This may seem crazy for you guys specifically. But for me, I'm actually thinking right now, see, I lost money in shit like Cripsy and Mint Power and all these other crazy places. But I was thinking like, man, I wish I'd lost Bitcoin on Malgok's. And I know that probably sounds crazy to you guys after all this. But as I think Tom said, one of the best because you would have sold the Bitcoin along the way, you'd have done something with it. Actually, having someone force hold it for you isn't actually such a bad idea because you would have used it along the way. Huge cost. For a huge cost. Well, but at least you would be holding Bitcoin at that point. If you lost money in Cripsy or Mint, Palli could have had Mega Coin, Terror Coin, Earth Coin, Prime Coin. There's a zillion other coins that no one talks about anymore that are completely dead to the point where if you had them in your wallet, you couldn't even send them to another wallet because no one's mining that chain anymore. There's no one to take your transaction if it's Kanye coin or whatever it is, Bill Murray coin, any of the classics. They don't seem to be there. So yes, it would be a disaster. At least you were holding Bitcoin and you get Bitcoin cash for free and Malgok's allegedly going to send it to you. Well, I hope they do sort it out properly and I think that this is a massive drop is just pointed out for people that want to sell their like. They want to sell Bitcoin. They don't want to sell their Bitcoin. They've got it now so they can sell Bitcoin cash. They can sell Bitcoin, ABC, XYZ, Satoshi's vision, all the other crap that forks off and they can get a few Bob in the meantime. And they don't need to actually touch their actual Bitcoin stash, right? In theory, I don't know. Did Malgok's have Malgok's clarified the position on what they're doing with the forks because. Yeah, just Bitcoin cash. That's all. Okay, oh, it is just Bitcoin cash. Just Bitcoin cash. But the interesting thing here is that it could be a huge win for something like Kraken if they can get the deal to do the distribution because it means you would have to sign up to Kraken and then there would be an off chain distribution event which would then deal there make their wallets basically just call the database to then allow you to withdraw that plus you know, get all those old school big coiners onto your exchange. So, you know, that would be a big win, but I don't see that happening. I see a huge massive single send many transaction which the fee would be astronomical because it's going to be such an absolutely massive transaction. It might be so big that it's bigger than a meg, maybe just the single transaction. I doubt that actually, but that sounds like a great idea though to push the technical perspective like the the world's largest transaction was when Malgok's tried to send all the coins and then the tracks action gets stuck. And like all your like all my coins I waited five years for or more are all stuck in this thing now. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, or a group of mine has hold it like to ransom by not mining it. That would be awesome. They could decide just not to mine that. And I agree Josh may talk about before if they could send it to Kraken and not have to actually give you the bitcoins maybe even let you gamble it right away. It could be as successful as Chivo wallet in El Salvador where they didn't actually have to send everyone $30 in Bitcoin. They just gave you a claim ticket and you had to log in to claim it and if you didn't log in you don't get it. Yeah, I wonder who gets the leftover Bitcoin that are unclaimed from Malgok's. We'll have to see. Moving on to issue five. We're running out of time, but this is a fun one. Tom Brady has released and this is from the article from Fortune magazine. A bonkers advertisement. I didn't know that we were critiquing advertisements in Fortune magazine, but apparently this one is bonkers for FTX using a flame thrower to melt a massive block of ice with Bitcoin inside as we all know. Tom Brady Super Bowl champion with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the New England Patriots. But let's get straight to the ad as Tom Brady at Tom Brady says, hey follow me. He says, I'm around if anyone needs me for their fourth of July barbecue fire it up at FTX official American flag and fire symbol. He's not burning an American flag but the two emojis are right next to each other. Let's watch Tom Brady and his flame thrower. A lot of people think this is how you mind Bitcoin, but you don't need a flame thrower to buy, sell or trade Bitcoin and crypto safely. You just need FTX. I'm reloaded. I'm reloaded. A lot of people think this. Oh, well, I'm instantly of course reminded of the Matt Damon commercial, which turned out to be the top of the market. Not an up symbol like we all thought it was. Maybe Tom Brady is here to reverse the Matt Damon curse and bring the market back. I love the bit at the end where he's wiggling it around. What a great commercial. What is he saying? He's just saying you should buy it on FTX. I mean, that's the only part I got out of it. He thinks people mind Bitcoin by melting it out of blocks of ice with a flame thrower. Cool. And it's an ad for FTX. That exchange thing that sponsors baseball and everything. I don't know. Marketing is a confusing science, but it obviously got, let's see, 1,412 retweets. That ain't bad. 484 quote treats. Probably all critical of it if the fortune article is any indication. And 19,000 likes and a couple for me as well. Let's go to Dan Eve. What do you think about Tom Brady and his amazing flame thrower? Is he here to rescue the Bitcoin market? Maybe it's a reference to boiling the oceans. People think I don't think so. But I think it's like the Bitcoin you know, uses electricity and is boiling the oceans and that's it. He's like three flame throwing an iceberg. Because if it's global warming, which Bitcoin is contributing to and it's just a joke on that, maybe they didn't even think about that. And now I'll let a green piece if he's going to get all annoyed because they're going to be like, see Bitcoin, mylings like flame throwing an iceberg. I don't know. Haven't heard that argument yet. But then the day there's celebrities are going to, the celebrities are going to celebrity aren't they right? They're going to get paid lots of money and they're going to promote something. Obviously it's promoting FTX, which as dipping back into the maximumism stuff earlier. Some people aren't going to like because there's shit coins there as well. But at the end of the day, it's a free market. So get your Bitcoin, do what you want with it, get your Fiat, do what you want with it, buy an art piece, buy an actual NF and actual art piece, or buy an NFT. I don't really care. It's all part of the fun. We're going to see more of this. We're going to see more celebrities doing stuff. Remember when it was like in 2017, when it was who was painted their nails like Monero and stuff, wasn't it? It was Katy Perry. It was yeah, and there was Robin Hood, Cobb and Hood, who did the who got in trouble for that? Was it Floyd? What's his name? Floyd, money may whether it had an ICO and some other projects he promoted allegedly. Yeah, allegedly. So it's going to happen, right? The celebrities are influences of what drives a lot of marketing nowadays. So you're going to see more and more of these people and was it Larry David at the other super bowl commercial. So yeah, they're going to become they're all coming out the woodwork soon, shitting more and more shit coins and other stuff. Matt Damon, LeBron James, Larry David, and Dan and I just watched before the show, the misuniverse pageant now has NFTs. So yes, there's a lot of influencers out there wetting to influence you about your money. Just interesting. I have it freeze here on my screen. It's kind of interesting that Tom Brady has what seems to be an Elon Musk style flamethrower, but it's obviously producing an industrial real life flamethrower output. I also like the idea here that maybe this is filmed in Tom Brady's backyard or something and he doesn't have to go anywhere or do anything and he just shoots this fake flamethrower at a fake Bitcoin and the CGI magic takes the rest. Really economical commercial if Brady didn't have to travel and clearly not even much of a dress code, he could just wear what he was wearing that day. Josh Egala is Tom Brady here to save us. Is this the opposite of the Matt Damon commercial which I still really like but was a disaster for the market? You know, it's straight out of idiocracy like this sort of stuff, you know, like just flamethrower. Yeah. I don't know. It's just weird. But yeah, what it means to me is that, you know, we have been in crypto winter. Some would say crypto ice age and he is melting the ice age and we're heading into crypto summer with those shorts. But yeah, weird one, I agree it's going to get weird marketers tend to do weird weird shit because it gets noticed. Exit question, who would you want to see in a Bitcoin commercial next that you haven't seen? Maybe a rock star, a celebrity supermodel, maybe a famous writer, Dan Eve, who's in your Bitcoin commercial? Oh, I reckon, so I reckon Morgan Freeman playing Bitcoin as God and Jim Carey playing like shit coins being all crazy and then eventually becoming God or something like that. I'm like, that's that's really deep, right? It's a little older. Nice, Dan. It's a little older, but I think I'll go with Pamela Anderson. I'd like to see more sexy Bitcoin commercials. A lot of things like M&Ms and chips and beer have been advertised with sex in the past. Why not Bitcoin? It's round. You put it next to a pretty girl. Maybe a pretty guy, if you want. I don't care. Put them both in there. I'd like to see some sexy Bitcoin advertising, especially one where they're like, this goes too far. It shows too much skin or maybe it's an Austin Powers thing and they're covering up the good bits with the Bitcoin logos. Something like that. Let's let's sex sells. Sex should sell Bitcoin. I want to see Pamela Anderson. Josh Shagall, who do we got in your Bitcoin commercials? I'd like to see like Kirk Cobain and some of the 27 club people, I don't know, coming back from the dead and all the dead artists. I love it. Josh has got a great idea here. There's a lot of money in the celebrity dead reenactment culture. Let's get John Wayne. Let's get all the other big ones. Sinatra, everybody else. If you're dead, you should be marketing Bitcoin and you're absolutely right, Josh, because that'll get us the headlines. The headlines will be, oh, I can't believe they use Frank Sinatra to promote Bitcoin and that headline actually promotes the commercial. I think we're giving away. When I was a teenager, I had a radio, sorry, a CD player that would only play dead artists. It was so weird. It would like play Jimmy Hendrix, play and then every other CD that's Modna, just a B. It was haunted. Haunted CD player. Josh almost dated himself. When I was a kid, I had a radio. I had a radio and I'd walk 20 miles to work. That's right. Well, we're reaching the end of the show, but first we want to tell you guys what we're going to be doing next week. I'm taken by Talents to Mallorca. That's right. It's a good size island in the Mediterranean, actually much larger than Malta. Looks about the size of Sicily and it's right next to Ibiza and it's also owned by Spain. Yes, Mallorca Blockchain Days 2021 says it's going to have permissionless fund if you're in the area. Come join us at Mallorca Blockchain Days. Let's just check out some of the speakers. I'm beer talky. Very good. I know him. Christian, Luki, I know him. Vlad, I know him. That's three. Oh, Vitt from Lieberland. That's four. Oscar. I know him from Unchained Convention. That's five. Mike Dupree, Ben Arck. I've heard of that guy. We're up to seven. Christian Rootsle. That's eight. Victoria's nine. I don't know this guy. I know these guys. Oh, Pablo, I met him. That's 10. Veronica, that's 11. A man, Rafi, hope to see him. He says, you don't need a blockchain. You need a therapist. Dan Eve, crypto raptor, co-host WCN. That's 12 people that I know. And let's see, is there any more people that I know at this thing? MZ? I know him. Where is Josh? Shagalla. There he is. Very cool. I know 14 people. 15. There's Theo. Shout out to Theo. Rare Pepe. There's 15 people that I know at this conference. I pretty much had to go. Josh and Dan, you're both speaking. What do you want to tell the people about the New Yorker blockchain days? It's going to be epic. It's going to be epic last year. We really covered the old school ground with the Mietake, myself and a panel talking up just everything that's possible. It's one of the really top, along with LaBicConf, it's one of my favorite Bitcoin conferences. If you're in Europe, if you're in Spain, it's next weekend, grab yourself a ticket. There's still tickets available. And I would recommend, I would highly, highly, highly recommend getting the experience ticket, because you go out on a boat with us all on the Sunday and it's really fun. It's beautiful. It's just lovely. Lots of good times, lots of great conversations and lots of beer. Oh yeah. Dan, are you excited about the New Yorker blockchain days? Are you going to be wrapping at the conference? Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think on the Thursday night, like the initial drinks pie. I'm really looking forward to it. Also this year, so when we park up on the cruise, on the little catamaran cruise on the Sunday, this year, I'm going to touch the bottom of the ocean because last year, I was with Ben in the Metackey and Rose and we dove down, but I got about that far away from the bottom of the ocean. I got really far on my ears tied to her. So this year, I'm definitely going to touch the bottom. That's my big goal. Three diving Dan. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So I'm going to work on my breathing. Yeah, just don't come up too quickly. That is not my goal entirely. No, but for some reason, I'll be going to another relatively small island in the Mediterranean. I guess Sardinia and Sicily, Corsica. There's a couple left, Ibiza. Why can't we just go straight to Ibiza? But they say it's a very nice island full of German and Netherlands tourists and other people trying to evacuate Europe, which is currently heating up and going to an even hotter place in Mayorka. So if you're looking for a beach vacation, all the hotels sounded very nice. Look like palm trees everywhere. There's still a couple of cheap places near the convention. If you want to do that, the convention itself, you can't get a hotel room there. But like Josh said, there are tickets available. Check out meorkablockchaineddays.com. It's going to be a great time. And we're running out of time. Josh, Agala, do you have a story of the week or a prediction? Go ahead. No, the story of the week is basically looking forward to blockchain days and seeing you guys there. The prediction is actually we have so many new partners with the standard. And what's really exciting is seeing some of the old school, because we reached out to some really great people in the space who actually ended up losing a lot of money in the US T thing. And they're like, Josh, I fully support you. Thank you for coming in. It was after the Mt. Gocks collapse. We were like, we're sick and tired of exchanges, ripping people off. Let's build a proper exchange that's truly transparent. And we did. And it's still going now. It's never been hacked. And it's just it's been a wonderful experience. And I think we're going to do the same thing with Stablecoins now. The real, the big players are going to come in and create something. The parents are coming in now creating something real, creating something good. And this sort of excitement is really starting to amp up as we start to step out from being a little bit more under the under the radar in stealth mode. Now we're starting to come out. So it's really exciting seeing people coming to us, backing us, having a look at what we're doing and realizing how powerful it is what we're building. Dan, Eva prediction or story of the week. Go ahead. I predict that I will be at New York a block saying that he's going for the easy one. Although it's still going to be a task to get out there because apparently like there's Ryanair restriking and I still don't know what the requirements are for getting in if you've got to do a test or if you don't and I haven't looked into that stuff. But I've got a test left over from last year where I ordered it like 24 hours before or 48 hours before and it's said it takes a week to come back. So in theory, I can use the one from last year that I didn't use but maybe the rules have changed. I don't like go post always change. I got a test right here. Oh, the rules are complicated and it very much dispens on the country. I don't know if they're doing the tests anymore. If you're vaccinated, if you're not vaccinated, you might have to take a test and just in general, I've been traveling here. I'm in Germany right now and it was kind of hilarious. I think George would have loved it. We were all on the train in Netherlands. Everyone had no masks on. We were all being fine. We crossed over the border to Germany and the conductor came on and said, please put your masks on and we all did. And it's been the same kind of thing in most of the museums and indoor places that I've been visiting where at first, you know, I walk in all fine, no mask. You know, I've had two vaccinations and I got it. So I'm feeling pretty good myself. And then you see a bunch of people with a mask and you're like, well, you know, I want to be polite to them. So I'll put on my mask and we'll play this game. But really, unless there's a hundred percent masking, which I prefer, that stops it from spreading to people. If you're wearing a mask, what you're actually doing is protecting other people from you. So when you see all these people out there right now and you're like, oh, that's the weird one still wearing the mask. Hopefully, if they're scientific, they've been exposed recently and they're protecting you. Unfortunately, they're not that scientific. They probably think they're protecting themselves. And then there's the whole thing about people wearing masks outside, which is, you know, it's nice for like a hundred percent completist idea where you're like, I never took the mask off. But again, to just go with the hard science here that we have, it's developed over time. We didn't know that much in the beginning, but it's been a long time. There's no proof of outdoor transmission. So even if you're in a large group of people like a concert or something, if there's enough air circulating, there's less chance of getting it again. That's not a hundred percent. So maybe wear your mask or whatever. But we'll have to see how it is in me or I imagine as a crazy beach resort community. They've probably completely forgotten about, yeah, forgotten about it. So we'll all get it. We'll all be sick. We'll be crying in a week from now. We'll probably have to cancel the show. But that's no reason for you not to go to New York, a blockchain days. What a great advertisement that is, guys. Plus, there's lots of great Liberty people there that like Josh, don't believe in any restrictions or controls for any reason. So that'll be good. Maybe they'll bring 3D printed guns and I don't know what will happen. Some kind of presidential assassination or something. But hopefully not knock on wood and all those things. But thanks to everybody for joining us. It's getting hotter and hotter here in Germany where they don't believe in air conditioning. So I can't wait to end the show so I can turn on the fans and open all the windows and maybe eat some vegan ice cream or something as well. So thanks so much for giving us a thumbs up down below. If you haven't already, please push subscribe. This is the World Crypto Network. And until next time, bye bye.