The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest sitoshis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Hi, Dan! Josh Gala from thestander.io. Guten Tag! Martin Wishmeyer from General Bites. Hi, guys. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, New York, officials rule against Bitcoin mining power plant. Yes, some entrepreneurs in New York state had bought an old fossil fuel burning power plant and had the clever idea to turn it back on to mine some Bitcoin. Yes, they even bought carbon offsets, but that wasn't enough for the state of New York. New York said no dice, no more burning fuel to make Bitcoin. Other banking industries were not affected. Dan, Eve, your thoughts on New York's rejection of the Bitcoin fossil fuel burning power plant? Well, I understand that we want to cut down on fossil fuel burning power plants. It makes logical sense. This one, it was a coal plant that was reengineered to use natural gas. And I think green is the company. They already buy carbon. They're actually carbon neutral, I think. But it sounds the article. They obviously buy carbon credits, whether you agree or not, at least they're kind of offsetting the carbon that they are making to mine Bitcoin. But it said that they're only, if it's a full capacity, it would be 0.23% of the state's greenhouse gas emissions for the year. And that really is, that's not a lot, right? Considering Bitcoin is providing a service. It's not like you're just burning. The thing is that people kind of forget is they consider anything that's mining or mining of Bitcoin as a complete waste. It's always just considered a waste. They forget that it's actually doing something. It's got a reason behind it. It's securing the network, right? And that's something that you can't compromise by having something like proof of stake, because it's a secure model that's the most secure that we've ever seen. The reason why we've got proof of work and is the reason why Bitcoin is so secure. The fact that they've rejected it, it's good for Mercut, I say, good, as in it sounds good on the surface, but it's just the same as saying, rejecting the ability to do, like, I don't know, almost like a lawn watering band, but they don't do this with anything else, right? They don't say, right, electricity's running short, we're burning too many emissions, so we're going to cut down no one's allowed to buy X products anymore. They don't do anything like that. It's always just picking on Bitcoin as something specifically because it uses energy. And yeah, I just think it just gets the message gets lost that it's not wasting electricity. It's using it to secure the network, right? And that's something that it needs. It's also got the, you know, there's financial benefits to that, which is the tax that ends up going back into the state. So they're kind of missing out on that side of it. But it just seemed like, you know, the view is very, it's extraordinarily negative from the environmental side. Some hippie said, I can't remember their name for the article, I just wrote the quote, which was New York's former fossil fuel burning plants are not yours to reopen as gasoline Bitcoin mining cancers on our community. And that just shows that there's a bit more to it than just saying, like, oh, we could probably do with using that power plant for something else more constructive or something like that, right? It's a hatred towards Bitcoin that's unfounded that really defies logic. They haven't really thought about it. They probably don't know anything about mining or what the benefits are of mining or the reason why you're doing it. It's just this flat out thing of going, you know, the sort of, it's the sort of, you know, like idiot that basically like company, you know, we'll phone up and complain about the show that they've never even watched. Like, oh, have you heard about the, you know, I'm putting in a formal complain about the show because they haven't even watched it. They've just heard from someone else that is bad. They haven't done their research. They haven't watched it. Yeah, it's just the same old stuff, you know, and it will move the problem is it's got a chance to move right at the moment, they're carbon, they're carbon, they're carbon, what you call it, carbon zero carbon because they're offsetting their, their, with carbon credits. They could move to somewhere else where they're using not coal, not gas, but coal, right? So, you know, by having something in your own front yard, you've got the ability to control it and to make sure that it is going along the right track. But, you know, unfortunately, they could migrate now. Their license hasn't been renewed, renewed to somewhere else that where they can use fossil fuels and they don't care about carbon credits because they're like, we're not going to get shut down so we don't have to, you know, to go through the effort of being carbon neutral. So, naughty hippies. Well, I remember when the internet came out, everyone's so mad about the server rooms. They're like, you're going to build server rooms to give us the internet and you're going to put down wires and cables and all of this just so we can have jobs and information and a whole future that, you know, delivers streaming stuff to us all the time. Oh, don't do that. Everyone's going to hate that. But here we are again. We're not sure what we're doing with the Bitcoin. Obviously, New York is against it. Josh, a similar thing's happening in Germany because of the Russia Ukraine war Germany is considering turning back on their fossil fuel plants, maybe even building more. Of course, they're not going to use it for Bitcoin mining though. So that's perfectly okay. They bloody better because there's going to be a lot of very cold people this winter. But, you know, the thing is, I actually believe that the state for the first time has actually done this entrepreneur a favor because mining Bitcoin with fossil fuels is never profitable, especially when on top of that, you've got carbon credits to pay for. I don't see the math working. I don't see how the maths can work unless a generally fossil fuel mining only really works in in in in in communist countries that basically subsidize fossil fuels because they've got like large supplies like Venezuela or something where they've got large supplies of fuel and everything super cheap like everything super expensive apart from the apart from energy. And or some some despotic dictatorship where that also happens in oil rich countries. So it in America, I don't see it working. I think that I think they've probably bleeds dodge the bullet there with that. Yeah, we'll see. Arteen Wishmer, your thoughts on mining Bitcoin with energy. Yeah, that's also an extremely biased biased article has been already said. We all know the whole Bitcoin is boiling the ocean story originated with a guy that calls himself Dogecoin economist and his was paid for by the Dutch central bank to put out a very negative article in order. And then it gets copied, copied, copied. And if you see if you read it enough, then it becomes the truth. And then I don't think it's it's wasting energy or anything. It's you know, it's as the answer is providing a surface and and you know, if you don't use a surface, then you might consider it wasted energy. But I find it total waste of energy that all these people leave their cable boxes on all the time that should be prohibited. You know, first they watch the shitty shows on TV and then they leave their cable box on and that's like boiling the ocean. So that should be prohibited. You know, they should be replaced by Bitcoin miners. Now I think the whole discussion about energy get bored with it when they assign off usually one after the first paragraph. And if there's some smelly hippie, fans, they're open. And that coin is a cancer. Yeah. You know, not one needs to invent free energy so that we can we can just get rid of this like Bitcoin boils the earth business. Yeah, I think it's good, you know, the fish like it have it warm too. And we should we shouldn't let that stop us. And we know Bitcoin will just go elsewhere and mining will go elsewhere. And it doesn't really matter where it will go, but it will happen. So yeah, I do think it's a bit strange. But I first allow you to buy an old coal power plant and then deny you to operate it later. I think this is just, this is just, this is just wrong. I mean, it's not like you get like New York has been the most friendly Bitcoin state in the world in America. You know, they're from the beginning that are very hostile, putting in the generations of the investments and all that. So, you know, it's not really surprised. I do agree with Martin though about the coal power plant. How can you allow it to be resold if it can't be used for what it's designed for? It's like you bought a pizza oven and now you're going to cook some pizza. What does New York expect? It seems like if the state really wanted to save the environment, which I'm in favor of, maybe they should be purchasing these old coal power plants so that they can decommission them for good. And it's just part of the state right off plan, they're turning it into a, you know, national park or something or maybe a super fun site if it's polluted, you know. Rafe Corsmith's sewn in, never too late. And it's renewing it as well. So they let it operate like they actually let it, it says denied required epim to renew the mining power plant on the grounds is the right to clover girls. So they let it operate for a while and then there's suddenly went nah. So how many other things that I'll be interested to find out that how many other, like other things that they clamp down on, right? If they turn around and go, I mean, look, you walk through a town at a city center that like 10 o'clock at night, the shops aren't open, but there's hundreds of lights in there just burning away completely. Yeah. I was looking for, now I was going to go and look about New York City. I was the man who wanted to save the environment. Maybe you buy that building in Times Square that has nothing but billboards on the side. And doesn't even have any businesses in it. So like the last 30, 40 years, it just runs billboards that waste energy and just put the light out there. Martin was talking earlier about the cable boxes. At least you get the television. At least when you run the PlayStation 4 all night, you get the updates with the Christmas lights and like dancing more importantly with these billboards, with these advertisements, we're not getting anything. We're just, we're getting access on necessary light. I mean, yeah, you get advertisement. We don't want advertisement. I mean, at least a street light, a street light lights the street. Christmas lights just kind of go out in the air, advertising lights, light the advertisement. Maybe we're not cracking down in the right place. Maybe picking on proof of work, ain't it right? Maybe we should pick on proof of nothing first. Right? What the Bitcoin community does find another enemy to pin the blame on, right? They need to find something else that like uses electricity and be like, oh, that's so bad. And then he's maybe Trump circles. Yes, they have to be, Joe circles are breaking out everywhere. But now we have the breakout of the exit question. Surprise forced prediction competing against the amazing Bitcoin ball, the baldest form of Bitcoin prediction. It's so bald. And Eve will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Lower. Josh Shagalla. He's muted. I'm sure he's saying lower. Everyone is negative. We're going down. We're going to, we're going to liquidate the Celsius. That's what's going on. That's terrible and awful. I don't even know Fahrenheit let alone Celsius. Martine Wishmare higher or lower? Oh, definitely lower. We haven't seen the bottom yet. And I think we'll be like, we will be going down. Down. If you haven't sold already, you screwed. Disaster is negativity here. Of course, the Bitcoin ball will save us. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? And it says, maybe, maybe. Thomas, you know, maybe it's not bad. You know, we could just one look at that Bitcoin predictor ball. And every fewer will know that the price went down, but the size of the ball shrank as well or not. Yeah, it's a, it's deceptive. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a smaller, it's a smaller ball to give you the worst news. Yeah. I have been keeping tabs. It's been correct every time. It's amazingly correct, especially when it refuses to predict that's often the best and easiest prediction. Moving on to issue two, El Salvador's Bitcoin boosting leader buys 1.5 million dollars more. Yes, they're buying the dip in El Salvador and Michael sailor from micro strategy bought another 10 million dollars in Bitcoin as crypto markets lost 900 billion dollars in value. Josh Shagalla, El Salvador and micro strategy, the best friends that Bitcoin has ever had or are they leading us to their doom with their endless optimism and their even more endless ability to borrow money and mock us all with their huge, huge buys. No, I think that's fun. Like any good businessman buys when there's blood in the streets. That's what you do. You basically, you want to, when everyone's hyping in and everything's green and everyone's just loving life, you've got to slowly get out and look, you see like the FTX owner, right? He's now going up, basically buying up all these totally degenerate gambling companies and these VCs who have totally screwed up and ready to be liquidated and he's like, well, I'll help you out if and because he's got liquidity now. But this is typical of the market. What everyone does is follow everyone into the hype train right at the top and then they lose their shirts. But it's really, now's the time to buy. Now's not the time to go, it's over. Now's time slowly, edge in and if you've been looking at the crypto markets, this is the time when it's down. And just, we just said it's going to be lower. It shouldn't matter. You should just put a little bit in to savings like your savings count every minute. Not financial advice. Of course, I don't know your situation. If you were no one does, don't listen to people on the internet. But when prices are low, that's when people should buy, not when prices are high. You could just watch all those videos where the people have their mouths open. That's the one to buy. Those are the price predictions that you want to listen to. But meanwhile, Martin, Wishmare, are these our best friends of Bitcoin or are they just taking advantage of a situation? Well, regarding El Salvador, I'm not a big fan of governments buying Bitcoin because I suspect at one point there will be an exit scam or a rogue pool and then the person in power will take all the private keys and will move elsewhere. Your micro-salar is different. Of course, this company is registered on the stock exchange. Yes, it's your set. If there's blood in the streets, you buy the dip. So yeah, I think it's a smart move. Eventually, the price will go up, especially if you look at the inflation and all. So it might take a few years, but it's definitely worth it. I think it's just DCA and 10 million at the time. So yeah, very good. New best friends are not... I don't know. I'd like to see Bitcoin a bit lower so we can stack more sets. But it's always good that somebody is really positive. But regarding the governments, I don't... Government shouldn't be buying Bitcoin. This is my personal opinion. It's so good and they're all on the El Salvador hype train. But I think it's better if you just let it be the people's money. Why should governments buy all this Bitcoin? Yes, but maybe someday we'll find out the answer to that age-old question. How many Bitcoin's can they do? Callie fit into a briefcase. Or maybe it was stolen or it was family or it got struck by lightning or something. Something bad happened. Dan Eve, Fortune favors the bold. Is it time to re-enter the market? As Josh says, maybe just the tip. You know, just a little bit. Well, the South Park prophecy came true, right? That they were like, oh, my mum spent all her money on Bitcoin and NFTs. And now I don't have enough money to buy school lunch or whatever. And now we all have to live in a hot dog. Yeah. Live in a hot dog, Kyle. A hot dog. It's obviously, you know, so we're down from all time highs. We're kind of in the literally banging the middle of in between the next harvining. So things are kind of getting a bit choppy. Josh made a good point about the fact that they're clever people. They're buying when there's blood, right? There's and the fact is that it's going to go up eventually as kind of history seems to be showing in terms of the date that we do have. So so buying now, but you know, makes you all, I think the average for for the El Salvador Bitcoin was pretty high, actually, $46,000 for micro strategy. It's only and they're 56% down a total on their investment. Micro strategies average is 30,644. So they're a bit less impacted and they still have two billion dollars of Bitcoin on the balance sheet that they can use as collateral if they need to. It does seem like the the the sailor bars gone down from from I was sure it was $20,000 or something we were in the previous readings. And now it's the sailor bar is now three and a half thousand dollars. So it seems like they've got a lot of leeway and they have actually got collateral with El Salvador, the IMS still begging them to, you know, reject Bitcoin and dissolve the trust funds. So that, you know, and then they're citing concerns about criminals using the cryptocurrency and they're obviously again completely ignorant and unaware of the the traditional finance system and all the banks which are so very well behaved and never get fined for any bad behavior at all. And they're oblivious to the fact that fear can be used in so many crazy, crazy ways. Some of the quotes from the article though I think are quite cool. Like one of them was it's 1.5 million. That's the same as three. This is because this is how much Buckeligore recently 1.5 million dollars. That's the same as like three fire trucks. Yeah, not not a bad comparison, right? I'd much rather buy a bunch of Bitcoin than three fire trucks. However, if they do want to build this Bitcoin city next to a volcano, you may need some fire trucks just in case. So, you know, may not have been the smartest decision. But somehow, also, so it's like it's just like the California Gold Rush. Only the peoples that sell the hardware has made money. And for most parts, the rest lost money. Well, actually, that's really silly because very few people make hardware. And lots of other people made lots of lots of money. Like Bitcoin went up to 69,000 dollars. They're fair enough it's gone down now. But a lot of people are still holding. So technically, they haven't lost money yet because they haven't sold. In fact, that number of the number of people holding long term keeps on going up year by year. So, yeah, obviously, it's not good right now. The fact that the price is low and it seems like we're kind of, you know, here we think it's going to be going a bit lower as well. But as long as they're as long as they're able to kind of, you know, keep the wheels turning, then eventually that Bitcoin's going to be worth a lot more. In theory, this is not financial advice. It was interesting as Dan said previously, many thought that Staleurs number was around 21,000. If it went below there, he'd need to borrow more money. Now, Sailor says it's a cool three and a half thousand. Well below Ben's prediction of $10,000 Bitcoin. So, if they want to break Michael's sailor, they're going to have to push it lower. And if they get back to 3,000, I mean, I think a lot of us would be buying. That sounds like a really nice number. I want to blast from the past or as tone used to say, it has to reach ways to 1200. And we're still looking for that $300 Bitcoin. That was a beautiful time. Moving on to the exit question, Josh Agala, who blinks first? Will it be Neav Bukali or perhaps the board of micro strategy who either stops buying or maybe even God forbid sells a little bit of their Bitcoin? Who blinks first? I think they've gone into deep. The thing is with the government, it's, you know, it's tax payed money, so they don't really know or care as much as when it's private money. But they actually have to be answering to. So I think if anything, Sailor will, but if it's down, if liquidation's down at 3 grand, I think it's fine. It was 21. I think he might have paid off or added collateral. Either that, but also maybe it was a confusion between Celsius. Because Celsius was at around 21 million, 21,000 at liquidation. Then it went down to like 19. Now it's down at 14,000 or the last I checked. So maybe they've gone even further down. But yeah, or it was at 16,000. I think it was 16,000. Sorry. So yeah, I think Celsius, they will blink first. I really, I'm wondering if someone can dig them out. There's talks of like Goldman Sachs jumping in. I don't really buy it. I think we're going to see some more pain along the way. And really, this is what it's all about. It's about the markets realizing that you shouldn't be degenerate with your investment strategies. And when you've got professionals, so-called professionals like three-hours capital and Celsius that is like old school wall street acting like D-gen degenerate gamblers, you're going to get problems like this. And in this space, the government isn't bailing you out. And this is exactly what was written in the the Genesis block of Bitcoin. It was a Bitcoin launch was all about a rebellion against bailouts. And against the socialization of financial fuck-ups and the privatization of profits. So rather, it was like privatize the profits and the losses. If you're going to be done after lose, then that's a learning lesson. A, for the investors, you'd need to do better due diligence and demand better structures from the people that are investing your money. And the investors, because if you don't, you're not going to get the investment. So it takes time for people to, for industry to like actually clean itself up. And sadly, sadly, what's going to happen is that Celsius probably go broke, then they're going to go running to the state going, oh, it's such a world-west. And we need more regulation and more laws. Instead, you just need to like actually need education. You need shows like this. You need podcasts and everything else. Teaching the people of the world how to invest, how to look for good investors and good investment opportunities. And that's a great time for everyone to give us a thumbs up at home. There's only about 50 people watching with the thumbs up and about 500 people overall. But still, we appreciate you guys watching and we love it when you push thumbs up. Yeah, Martin Wishmer, who's going to blink first, the president or the business? I don't know how deep Michael Seller's pockets are. I think Lukali will at one point get into problems with the people because he's basically spending their money. And I think I don't think he should spend it in the first place, you know, better buy some fire tricks. His girlfriend gave up her toe, man. She thought she was going to get a million dollars. She gave up her toe. Dan Eve can either of them stop? Are they both too far gone? I think hopefully there's going to be enough other businesses and other services that will help. I don't want to use the term bail them out but support them because these both cases right now are becoming very widespread like not as to edge cases but use Kate, not use cases. Test cases, what's the word? Yeah, for Bitcoin being implemented. One is with micro strategy being the biggest company with exposure on the balance sheet and the other one is the first country to accept Bitcoin. These are being used as the kind of gold standard experiments of how Bitcoin can help either a country or a company. So it's in the Bitcoin community's best interest to kind of keep them afloat and to help keep them out of trouble. So it might be the case that if the micro strategy line isn't really three and a half K, that they've got two two billion dollars of value at the moment. If it goes down to ten thousand of Bitcoin, if it goes down to ten thousand dollars, they still got a billion dollars of Bitcoin that they can liquidate in order to help pay the bills and keep them afloat. With El Salvador obviously it's a bit more difficult. I think they're on the verge of defaulting on their 800 million dollars bond and that's 48% probability that you think is in the moment. So that seemed a bit closer to home. I think Martin hit it on the head that the people might get pissed off. They might get the community and they might take to the streets a bit more. So that's a bit more of a risk. But ultimately I think Bitcoin is well clubbed together and make these experiments work. Good coin. And they could always pay off the debt with Bukkeli coin. There's always Bukkeli coin. And as Dan said, I think they need some emotional support. And some money, emotional support and lots and lots of money. That's what they need money. Check out worldcryptonenetwork.com where DJ Booth has created the on this day system. We did a show last year on 2020. We did a show on July 1st. Good morning Bitcoin in the news. In 2019 we did a show on July 1st. Bitcoin is bigger than Jesus again. Check out the Bitcoin news from 2018. Bitcoin talk show from 2018 shows from 2016. 15, 14, 13 all on this day. Thanks to DJ Booth. And you can check the sidebar to see how the popularity who's been on the most shows contest is going. Thomas Hunts and the lead tone Vays behind. Dan Eve picking up number three. Good to see Jimmy Song on the board at number four. Josh Shagalla pulling up the lead in number five. So check that out at worldcryptonenetwork.com. It's free and doesn't have any ads. Moving on to issue three FTX closes on a deal to buy in battle. Crypto lender block five for $25 million in a fire sale. Block five had reasonably even worth around $250 million to $500 million, depending on who you're talking to. And FTX just bought it for $25 million. All of the investors into block five were liquidated. Apparently none of the loans will be affected. And the valuable customer list will be handed on to the new company. Martin Wishmare your thoughts about block five being bailed out by the debt pockets of FTX. Your last comment that the valuable customer list will be passed on to the new owners. That triggered me because they already leaked my data to or three times. I've been approached by succumbless scammers on the phone number that I registered with block five because I used a separate SIM card for that. So I know 100% sure that it is from the block file league. And when I complained about that, they were basically saying, I just don't know nothing to worry about. And then when I kept complaining about it, I got $20 of their own stable coin dollar, the one they used there. $20. That's about the same amount of money that my data is worth on a dark market. So I pulled out of block five quite a long time ago. After I found that they were just changing their tiers. They weren't lowering the interest rate they would pay. They would just change the tier. So only a tiny little bit of your deposit would yield that advertised rate. The rest would get like one tenth of that. So I felt that it was so not worth it for the risk people were taking. And no, I mean, hold, less than a year later, the whole Christmas tree comes tumbling down with everything failing. So no, no, no. My advice is store your Bitcoin. Your private keys make sure that you have them in a hardware wallet. If you really, really, really want to get some interest out of it, make sure that you don't expose yourself to say 10% or 15% at max of your stack. So that in case of another block five event happening or sales years, or I don't know which one the next, which will be next. But it will happen again. That you will lose at max 10 to 15%. This is something you can live with. And hopefully in the future, it will get better again. But until no, don't use those services. Don't care. FDX, I don't know. Until recently, they never heard about them. Then they made a lot of noise. They came into the market. They're super big now. But no, no, no, no, no block five for me. And no sales years either. Well, at least you used a burner phone. And I think that's really good advice to everyone. You could go buy another phone line for not that much. You can put the minutes on there. You could use it for just your business dealings. You could keep your crypto wallets over there. That way, if it gets hacked or exposed or sold as part of a bailout merger, it's just your extra phone line. It's not your main phone line. And also, I was reminded, of course, of Empire Strikes Back with Landido Calarisean says to Darth Vader, this deal is getting worse all the time. And then Vader says, perray, I don't alter it any further. So, Josh, the gollia, you look ready to go. Would you like to talk about FTX and block five? Do I ever? So, you know, San Bankman, as his last name states, is a very good banker. And he's basically doing what they should be doing. And that's buying up troubled companies in troubled times. He's, yeah, I think he's an absolutely amazing businessman. I don't know if he's like pure evil yet, where he's going to like a real hard and just basically swad. But the thing is, yeah, like Martin said, the customer list has been hacked multiple times. So, I don't know if he's just doing it, playing that for that, because basically you can buy that anyway. But I think it's more like, you know, you want to buy a lot of these companies, they're legit companies. They would just run badly. So, same with Celsius, run absolutely terribly, with no foresight. Everybody, if there's one thing you know, that Bitcoin has seasons. And for them to invest like, there's never going to be another winter, was the most ridiculous nonsense move I've ever imagined. And obviously, San Bankman knows that there is a winter coming, started building up liquidity ready to buy up some of these startups that fail through this time. And there's many of them. So, yeah, I, it's part of the cycle, part of the move. Hopefully he'll do a better job. Obviously, what we're doing with the standard is to try and build a decentralized version of what Blockfire was, where you own the key to the smart contract and not someone else. And it doesn't get gambled away, it just gets locked up. And then you can generate the stablecoin that you need. That's happening with us. But let's see, you know, let's see what happens. No, I represent Dan. Yes, you can't chuck banks, but you can trust Bankman. Dan, leave your thoughts on FTX, buying up Blockfire. I'm here, I'm here, shilling the standards for Josh. I think it did make perfect sense. Like the, you know, these, these businesses, it sounds like everything kind of seems to root back to three-hour capital. And everyone's exposure to three-hour capital. That's like Voyager, Voyager Digital Blockfire, Celsius. And maybe others that we haven't heard about yet. Because that's, you know, we all know how, how kind of bad the re-hypothication issue with, with Bitcoin is, and the Bitcoin just going from one buy, then to another to another to another. And when something like this happens, it's like a chain reaction where the breaks down. And there's a lot of different affected parties. It's sad that we're sort of so many years into, not DeFi, but, but, you know, the holding Bitcoin, right? And being able to, and knowing about the risks associated with, with a third party having your Bitcoin. And yet we still have the same events happening over and over again. And it does really emphasize the importance of holding your own private keys. Because that way, you know, no one can get to it. Like, no one can get to it. You do miss out on the yields, fair enough, but no one can get to it. I do think there's, there is a bit of some merit with some, with some of the DeFi stuff. But then you've still got the risk of your coins being locked in some, and there ain't only a smart contract or vulnerabilities that haven't been found by an audit, for example. So there's, there aren't, you know, it's not perfect. But ultimately the best way you can keep your, you can, you know, just forget about, forget about, forget about, you want all my security, forget about yields and just hold your Bitcoin simple as there's the most simple thing you won't get the yield per year. But your Bitcoin's yield, like the average yield per year is, is probably significantly higher than you would get anyway from these basic yield apps. So it kind of just makes sense to, to hold the Bitcoin. And on, on Sam Bagman-Freed, I did watch an interesting, documentary, like a short, doc, you documentary, it was like a video on YouTube. I'm not going to lie. It wasn't some sort of, you got it on video tape, you travel to many stores, critically acclaimed award winning YouTube. I have a Google PhD, I have, you know, but, but, no, no, so it was actually quite interesting. He wants to, so he wants to give as much money away to charity as possible, he said eventually. So it does seem like he could be one of these, these, the secret, you know, wolf and sheep's clothes, evil people that's trying to do good. But he genuinely just seems like a nice guy. He seems like, you know, watch the videos and interviews about him. And he's actually seems pretty down to earth, certainly a lot more down to earth than some, some of the people that you hear are being interviewed. So I'm hoping that he, he is a good force for Bitcoin and crypto. Because crypto, unfortunately, is, you know, people say, it's not crypto, it's Bitcoin, but crypto is here to stay, just like to the banking system, Bitcoin's here to stay. You know, they're akin to each other. And unfortunately, you know, crypto will be around other things other than Bitcoin. And hopefully he's just a good force for that, right? And he's one of the good actors and that he does good and doesn't make Bitcoin as like, like, twats because crypto is doing bad, you know? Well, you know, I've never met a billionaire that I didn't like. As Trace Mayor used to say, not your keys, not your coins. Who is Trace Mayor? I have to Google that. Moving on to issue four, issue four ETFs again, not giving up Van Ek refiles with the SEC for a spot Bitcoin ETF, Van Ek believes nothing should prevent the SEC from approving a pure Bitcoin ETF after the regulator green lighted Bitcoin futures ETFs in 2021. And over in Amsterdam, hey, wait, I'm in Amsterdam. Euro next Amsterdam launches its first spot Bitcoin ETF, the Jacoby Bitcoin ETF, will be the first spot Bitcoin ETF offered on the Euro next Amsterdam exchange for institutional European investors. Dan Eve, maybe in ETF in America, definitely in ETF in Amsterdam, we've got ETF fever. Will it finally happen? Are we in the spot Bitcoin ETF promise land? Well, they make a good point, Van Ek, the fact that if they're worried about the exposure to Bitcoin and protecting customers, then there's exposure to Bitcoin from a futures ETF. So, you know, maybe there's additional security worries about holding Bitcoin on the balance sheet, but there's still the biggest citation against this Bitcoin spot ETF is about the fact that it's exposure to Bitcoin and it's an unregulated market with people manipulating it and like liable. Oh, no, not that, sorry, that's the normal banking system. So yeah, it's just these are kind of ridiculous arguments. What's interesting is that Bitcoin ETFs seem to be traditionally launched at kind of peaks, right? If you look at the previous peaks, like the CME, the 2017 one was pretty much like the $19,000 mark or 2017. And there's other sins that they're kind of, they almost ride the hype and they suddenly allow the agreed ETF right at the point of a little spike and then it dumps again, which is actually really bad news by the sounds of it for the recent short ETF that's just been done because although it may go down a bit, you know, ultimately, I think everyone's knows that, you know, we're kind of halfway through the bear market right now, very, and things should start after this dip should start picking up. So it's going to be a choppy, it's going to be choppy either way, right? The fact is that if you have a pension, you're putting your money or 401k as they say in the United States, if you've got, you know, you're putting your money in Bitcoin, if you're going to have a bit of downturn, I think initially, because we do seem to think the price is going to go down a bit, but ultimately, long term, it's going to go up. So, you know, Bitcoin is a long term asset. It's all about, you know, the books, they will say about the time preference and stuff like that. So yeah, I think ultimately, we deserve a spot ETF soon. We deserve, you know, a company that there's actually holding Bitcoin on the balance sheet and putting their and putting their private keys where their mouth are is them they. I don't know what VanX doing with their mouth, but they are playing by playground rules and it does check out like the epic case of finders v keepers. Josh Tagala, will we see a Bitcoin spot ETF soon? You know, I often get asked about this question and and then when I read the comments, they're like, a lot of people don't really understand ETFs, I've noticed. So I just want to bring it back a little bit. All in ETF is is basically a company that owns basically, it can be a bunch of things, it really like a portfolio of stocks. And then that big that's a public company and people trade shares in the company, they don't own the underlying asset that the company holds. And what I don't understand is why it's so hard to get a company to list itself on the stock exchange that's holding Bitcoin. So micro strategy could do it. Why can't they do it? I don't understand the SEC's problem. Why can't they they have that spider ETF and it's just full of spiders. I mean, if you can have spiders in an ETF. I've never heard of a spider ETF, but I'll take your word on that one. The thing is I really don't understand why a company can't hold Bitcoin on a spanish sheet and then publicly list itself. I don't understand the problem. I don't understand why it's taking as long as I don't get it. Martin Wishmeyer, why no ETF yet? I think the concern was that the Bitcoin price was manipulated while stocks of course aren't. And therefore the consumer should be protected. But you can bet now with the short what's the you can bet on the price going down by shorting Bitcoin. So that is allowed. You can bet on the price going down with Bitcoin, but you can't bet on Bitcoin itself. I think there's a little bit of a double agenda here. And I think we'll see the ETFs pop up elsewhere in the world before the SEC will change their mind. There's a lot of anti Bitcoin sentiment there. And I think there's a double agenda. Also, we're looking it up here for Josh. It says that the SPDR or spider S&P 500 ETF is available. They also have the spy ETF for spies. It doesn't say if they're Russian or American spies. But yes, SPDR spider is very clear. I don't know if we'll get an ETF, but I do know we'll keep talking about it. It's exciting. They're making one in Amsterdam. Not so sure about the Van Ek one. I do like the way they're trying to quote the rules back to them saying, Hey, you allowed it over here. Why not over here? But that's logic. And that doesn't always work on the SEC. Also a fun announcement with this week. There's going to be another Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam from the Bitcoin 2020 to crew. First it was in Florida. Now it's in Amsterdam. So a lot of Amsterdam related Bitcoin news this week. That's obviously why I'm here to cover it. Well, it's to be honest, the news only started happening once you land it. So I see a core correlation here. I think you're like making the news. See, we're controlling it. We're in charge. The mad tour investing and controlling the news. Let's skip the exit question. Let's just move on to issue five. It's the most exciting issue. The one you've all been waiting for. The FBI has added the crypto queen, Dr. Rooja of one coin to the top 10 most wanted fugitive list after the alleged $4 billion one coin fraud. We of course on this show everyone called it a fraud while it was happening. Christopher Rose and John Zift in excellent series where they went inside with a hidden pen. And the man told them, I know it in my knower that one coin is going up. Everyone knew Dr. Rooja was going to double your coins in her spreadsheet by November. And now the FBI with all of their investigative tools have figured out there was no blockchain. There was no one coin. Yet they allowed them to rent hotel rooms all over the country to pitch their fake coin even going to Wembley Stadium where she tossed a coin and said one coin will be bigger than Bitcoin. Martian Wishmare, what about one coin? Why did it take the FBI so long? And how did it? How did that contribute to $4 billion being scammed? Well, they they they they amassed the $4 billion in about three years time. So it took a couple of years. But I remember in 2017 I was called by quote, quote, net. This is a Dutch finance publication. They published their their version of the Forbes 500, which is like the quote 500 or the quote 100. And they asked me about one coin and whether it was such a great investment. So I told them like, you know, guys, this is a total scam. You shouldn't fall for this. But they they went to one of those meetings anyway. And there was this optimism that one coin was the next big thing. But I really warned them like, your one coins don't exist except behind some log in screen on a one coin website. And so fake. And during that time, I think it was at the peak of one coin promotion in the Netherlands. We also had this very well dressed gentleman appearing at the Bitcoin Embassy, who looked like an MLM, I don't know, snake oil salesman. He could have been selling, I don't hand cream or whatever, you know, the stuff they sell or top of their back. But now he was selling one coin, the dream. And he had this wife who looks like really like well dressed, very nice gown and like way overdressed for the very informal embassy meetings. But they were totally like, you know, into their one coin. So I had to tell them, you know, sorry, but this is a Bitcoin meeting. Either you shut up and listen or you leave. And they decided to leave. So yeah. So yeah, I think it's a government just just just just slow. And it's it's and I don't think there is any doctor who grew here left. This was one coin was run from Bulgaria. And as everybody knows in Europe in Bulgaria, there is no mafia. You just have businessmen with connections. And basically one coin had lots of connections. So yeah, they were run from Bulgaria. And I think at one point, Dr. Rousia just like, yeah, I don't know, disappeared. She just got lost. And now other people are enjoying the four billion, but Dr. Rousia is not will not be found. I can guarantee you, she's not on some island in her Louis Vuitton outfits or anything. No, no, she's lies, probably lies on the bottom of the sea somewhere close to the island. And the people on the island are actually enjoying the money. So yeah, it's pointless to put out a word or put her put her on a list. I think it's like, yeah, it's more a symbolic that, you know, yes, we figured out at the FBI that it was a scam all along. And we blame the lady from one coin. But even though she's probably dead. Sorry, Dr. Rousia, if you're alive, please respond to my Twitter account. I can get some sign of life, but I don't think you will. You owe my team some money. Yeah, you've shown me the money. It's it's almost romantic to think that one coin was created by one person or that the FBI could just find and capture that one person. Exactly four billion dollars out of her. Like she just has an inner pocketbook. We're going to get it all back. No problem. It doesn't sound logical. This was a very oiled scam. It was very well run. And they had an office in in in Sofia, Bulgaria. And if you know Sofia, it's a it's a well, it's a different mix of of yeah, you know, it's a very eclectic mix of different neighborhoods. But the place where they were, they were in spot on in the best place in Sofia. So you'd think that the burn rate was already high before they started. So it's definitely not some lady that just started a new coin and woke up at one point to say, I have a dream. I make my one coin. No, no, no, no, this was a mafia run operation. I can tell you that. And what was so unique about one coin is much like Facebook was only marketed to college students in Harvard and later a one college at a time. One coin was not really offered to the technological people. They weren't trying to get Bitcoiners on board. They were using the traditional MLM system where they rent conference rooms at hotels. They have speakers come in. They maybe even have plants in the crowd that say, I'm going to invest. And they would also use peer pressure so that after you invested your $10,000 minimum, they would go and get you to go to all your friends and get your friends to invest $10,000. And and maybe even more. And like Martin saying, you really got to check out that article from the period. Martin went into them, totally exposed one coin told the quote net. They said, this Bitcoin entrepreneur laughs at us when we talk about one coin says there is no blockchain says you'll lose all your money. And yet still the article in that classic both sides thing. They're like, he says this. Meanwhile, the one coin promoter says it's going to the moon and it's going to be a great investment. And we just got to present both sides. We can't think for ourselves here. Dan, Eve, I've even heard there's some celebrate. Go ahead, Martina. It is very sad because those people lost like not only all their money, but they also lost all their friends and everything. It's not like Bitcoin or anything, you know. But it's like, you know, it's this MLM scumbag program. And it's really made you get all these people you know in. And only after you got those people in, then you went up and ranking. It's it's a traditional MLM scam. And this is why I read this like anything related to a multi level marketing type of thing. They're always pyramids. There's always a scam I've never seen. And even even in a way, Tucker Ware, which is like the grand daddy of all MLMs like sell it. MLMs is like selling those plastic storage containers that are like 10 times the price of what they should be. I mean, really like everybody who touches an MLM eventually gets burned. So yeah, yeah, sorry. I just had to get it over back. I feel really bad for people who invest in one coin. And at the embassy at the time, we thought, you know, we have to warn these people. But because it's such a different community, we were unable to even reach those people because they were not on the same message boards that induce the same social media channels. They were all in there. Oh, she'll I do take one coin or sell a pedal to the web packages or something. You know, it's a yeah, sorry, sorry, you're all you've got lost it all. Well, it's an amazing feeling when you know it's a sure thing. It's a lot like if you found the Lord and you're out there trying to save someone's soul, you have to save their soul, right? Otherwise, they burn in hell. I know that one coin is going to double. I have to put all of your money into it. I have to put everybody in my offices money into it because if you don't put your money into it, you know, you're dumb because it's going to double by November. It's better than Bitcoin. I've heard all about it. Dan Eve, I've even heard that she broke the the glass ceiling and that maybe we should be celebrating Dr. Rusez that the first woman on the FBI's numb most wild list, something like that. We're really setting some records here. What do you think, Dan Eve, about one coin? Oh, that's very, that's really first thing about that from from Carl Torpe, they're like, they they they yes queend her like, wow, she's like the first lady on the FBI most wanted list, like as if it's like, oh, this is such a great this is such a great thing. There's going to be a reward ceremony where they they give it to where they when they eventually find her with the with the steel steel boots concrete boots at the bottom of the ocean that they'll give her the reward the award. Now, I think I'm actually kind of with Martín on this. I think that you know, although she was the kind of lead person, there's probably a lot of more people behind it that she probably could have also implicated and you know, that may that's probably not going to be good for her. And the the FBI picture that they wrote all the the series of picture they released though, it was quite funny because it says like, but you know, FBI 10 most wanted, 10 most wanted fugitives. It's rude to ring the tover and they give three pictures and all three pictures look like completely different people like all the three pictures they showed actually looked like three completely different women you wouldn't turn around and go, each one you'd be like, all that doesn't look like the other one. But the fact that it is a bit odd that she's been put on the list with, I know that it's for and I know a lot of people lost a lot of money and it's bad, but like, you know, on on the same list is like cartel as they put in the eye, well, like cartel leaders, murderers and terrorists like yeah, it's kind of like, you know, maybe there's a maybe there's a different list that they could put her on perhaps. Well, that finally crypto is getting some respect here, right? We're getting that respect. Yeah, exactly. It's the first crypto person as well on the F. I just looked on that list and I thought, yeah, Dan is right. This totally different pictures and they were like two-water men there. So she was was she a man at first, but no, that's the other people on the list. Oh, yeah, that's not a cartel leader, but yes, they're at FBI.gov if you want to serve, if you're ready to home you want to serve from mug shots. If you want to serve the other leaders, but it's you know, it's it's a sad thing they they lost a lot of money. When I first came out of university and was looking for a job, I got suckered into so many of these MLM type sales jobs and that like the the attitude is it's so uniformly nuts. Like one of them was was like a it was they they advertised it is like they called it like electronic electric account. What was it? Electric account executive and I got there and and it was like oh big my big it was like they might as well have just said big money and I was like okay, my mum was like watch out and she knew she could fucking she spotted it and mile off and I got there and there there was like an hour long session where they were basically high-fiving each other in a room. I still didn't know exactly what was going on and then eventually they were like right we're going out on the on the road then we went out on the road and like the manager that I was with it was had all these stories about like the money he was making and it was it it was in a shitty version 0205 like that you know there was like 15 20 years old and and then it wasn't until we literally reached the first door that I realized that they were selling gas and electric and I was like what the fuck like it's nothing like how you described it like this job that I was going to get and and it's the same thing they have like they fill these event rooms they pump you full of this like energy and yeah and it's really sad people people really think yeah they put their lives into it and these MLM schemes are awful they make you invest up front they say oh no you know before you get all the sales gear you need to spend a thousand dollars but you'll get that back really quickly and it's really savage and it's a shame that you know that people can still get suckered in like me I got suckered in and I didn't think I was a sucker and now I know I was a sucker but you know until it happens to you it's like it's like anything you know until you've been scammed like it's difficult even when you're in the scam admitting you've been scammed right it's like if you're an alcoholic it's like admitting you're an alcoholic is the first step admitting that you're in the middle of a scam is the first step and a lot of these people even while they're going like literally while they're going have you heard of one coin but they're still probably thinking I fucking to scam but you know but I'll wrote this sucker in anyway it's you're right about that then it is easy to convince people to believe in something but it's extremely hard usually to convince people that they were wrong about something it will the mind will start making up excuses I mean just look at from photos for example 2024 okay sorry it's it's it's almost like a game of three card Monti as well because they control the environment that you're in so if they have a couple of plants and the audience and those plants stand up and say I'm investing a hundred K I'm investing 50K and you stand up with your pocketbook and all of your life savings and say I'm investing 10K the company just made 10K right those other guys don't have to pay necessarily they can write down a fake check afterwards getting you to sign is worth having two guys there you buy them lunch you put them in a suit they say they're investing you have no idea what's going on you have no idea the environment you're coming into it's much like that classic poker game analogy if you can't spark the spot the mark by the first hour the mark is you and that like Dan and Josh think that's hard to come to you don't want to be the guy that's being scammed but then again you're waving your checkbook in the air you're going to make lots of money Josh should go all the what do you think about one coin really a break in that glass scene and they're putting the ladies on the map oh Josh is muted seems like some sabotage oh that's the original censorship censorship censorship blame the government that that's the um that's the original meaning of shill right a con artist has a shill that stands in the crowd be the first to buy the snake oil and and then it gets over I'm believing anyway I'm just looking through the the FBI wanted here and it's funny that it's so such a strange listing like race what well I didn't know that was a race that just seems like a description to me I don't know well if you're if you're like lost all your money you still want to have something you can download a poster you can download a poster and you can print it then you can hang it on your wall so dr. Ruzia is on your wall let's have posters so you know like you invested all your money into one coin and you still have a poster so you got to rejoin it to you um but it really is an accomplishment none of the other crypto scams made it this far we all thought oh car pellis is so bad or oh maybe this guy or that guy or whatever that gal and no this this one is the one coignist it's the most scamiest but um you know the the interesting thing here is the FBI is offering $100,000 for information leading to the arrest of ruzia and the the thing is about crypto is that you're going after someone that stole four billion dollars apparently you know obviously there's a mafia behind it but she would have a large cut if she's not at the bottom of some ocean and and you know if if you're clever and you know something about that you would just write her and say look I know it's you they're offering me 100k off me 200k and I'm not gonna say this is how it all starts it seems like a bit of a low bomb amount to offer 100k for someone that's uh obviously made up with a lot of money it's funny I was looking through my old github account and I was writing an open source letter to warn everybody about one coin that was meant to go viral and spread around and I had like on dress and a muppless adding and a bunch of others uh that that was the plan and uh it it I don't think it ever happened but um it was interesting finding that a few weeks ago and I'm you know it was such an absolutely egregious and obvious scam at the time and yeah all of a sudden it was weird it was like one of those wasps nests that just sort of suddenly you start seeing one wasp and then two and then five and all of some of those thousands of wasps around you I'm saying that because I've recently had a wasp nests in my place but um it was like that Bitcoin meetups we'd be there just enjoying ourselves talking about Bitcoin have again changed the world hey um have you guys heard of one coin and like then someone else would pop up ooh one coin yeah I think and it was just everywhere all of a sudden and we had to really fight to get rid of them I remember the john seth um and christ of rose episodes where they would go in there and uh you know try to do uh pounce on them all and and expose them and uh I'm just I'm just amazed it is the whole there's this new sucker born every day sort of thing and that's really unfortunate but yeah how massive that scam got if if people the the you know after a while of hearing all these people I googled what it was and I was absolutely blown away the first thing I saw was an entire football stadium with I mean this was when crypto was pretty young still you know we didn't have the masses of volume of money that's in there now but at this stage one coin had managed to get massive stadiums with fireworks one coin well and get this big coiners and people that are interested in crypto were like there's only 21 million wow that's like amazing only only 21 million of anything it's never going to exist anymore the one coiners I remember watching that video where they were at a full-on you know uh a sports stadium with fireworks and everything uh rujik get some sage and goes next week we're gonna double everybody's coins we're gonna everyone if you've got a thousand one coin we're gonna you're gonna open up your account and you'll have two thousand and everyone's like yeah like it's a good thing and all big coiners like hang on a minute you've literally just doubled your inflation that sounds terrible it's a dumbest shit ever and so yeah you're right they didn't go after technical people they didn't go after big coiners they went after total dumb uh well I wouldn't say dumb they went after people that just weren't educated in any sort of economic theory or interest they were just wanting to get rich and and these people fall for anything in their desperate and it's really really really a six-gam I hope that they get this woman I hope this woman opens up her black book and and gets the rest of them but I don't think it's gonna happen I think she's probably already been been uh suicide and and and that's you know I don't yeah it's it's really unfortunate I don't you know that's the thing in crypto you fall for scams and then you you you learn what they look like and you hopefully don't fall for another one and you invest wisely after that hashtag hashtag gonna go there but if if if the FBI couldn't squeeze out just a few of the names from Jislaid Maxwell as to who was associated then I doubt they're gonna get a load of co-conspirators of one coin yeah it's true yep well and I agree with Joshua really was a different group of people they certainly weren't watching our shows they weren't watching Andreas they were not interested in the Bitcoin market but they did want those Bitcoin gains and one coin told them they were gonna make those gains the hotel rooms seemed nice it was the four seasons it wasn't a landscaping company so they said okay and they put their money in uh the exit question we're gonna follow up on Martín on what he said uh Martín says Dr. Rooja's not alive Josh just seconded it said she's not alive Dan Eve is Dr. Rooja alive when we ever see her cuffed in irons brought to justice uh she I think there's either concrete boots or she's she's had so much plastic surgery she looks like neither one of the three already pictures that are up on the FBI site that don't look like each other I want to go against the group here I want to say that Dr. Rooja is like Dr. Doom she you secretly been running the whole thing she has an irons suit to protect her from assassins and she is alive but they'll not be able to capture her alive she'll be killed when they try to take over her compound in a violent confrontation uh that everyone will get their money's worth but we're running out of time so until that happens we'll just have to wait and see uh Martín Wishbeer are you ready with the prediction or a story of the week? uh yeah a story of the week um we added uh FDX the the company that uh is now buying block five our clients asked for it so we added support in the new version of the server software so if you're running an ATM network can you want to use FDX or want to give it a try just upgrade to the latest version and everything will be there that's very cool FDX sponsored all the umpires of major league baseball they sponsored sporting groups and arenas but still I just remember the slogan of crypto.com that's fortune flavors the bold fortune flavors the bold I think it was for Doritos Josh Sigala prediction or a story of the week maybe more advertising puns that's what I think yeah it sounds like winners don't lose drugs but uh yeah I I've got a um prediction that we are gonna have one of the one of the biggest uh names in economics joined the standard as uh only advisory board a real and a legacy name that goes back generations if that doesn't give a hint it's it's really exciting it's really exciting to have to have them on board and um and it really we really are embodying what is grandfather uh envisaged for for money meaning hard asset back and and soft you know nowadays with soft money as well so it's really exciting if you want to uh know who that is please follow me on twitter and uh it's uh J. Sigala J. S C I G A L A and uh you'll be the first to know it or yeah go to go to the standard IO it's your onboard Peter Schiff no it's not it's not Peter Schifty oh it's a secret you've got to sign up at the standard.io so you can find out uh my bets on Jackson Palmer can't beat Jackson plus he hates everything Dan Eve you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead uh I have well predictions are never you know never 100% so I predict that I may make it down to the AVE on valley tomorrow because uh because uh yeah I think Ben's been preckoning up for it tonight uh it does say that it's going to be it's going to be raining 90% chance of of rain so I don't know how that affects the event itself it's got indoor stuff as well like a little ball pit and uh well I'm not a little ball pit but it's obviously a lot better than that goodness uh I've really undersold it but um i'm a little ball pit let's get one of those giant well they call it soft play so thinking about taking the family it's meant to be a family event but it sounds really cool like you know go learn about bitcoin Ben's going to be doing some some talks there Victoria Jones as well and so it did tooth decay the book so um yeah I think it's going to be quite an interesting little conference so get get involved if you're in the uh in the in the Bristol AVE on type area it's it's also a very affordable conference so it's accessible to all so that's the thing is important if you're in the area the price is definitely not a reason not to go yeah I think it's like 18 pounds the 70-man 50 but half price if you pay it in bitcoin so check it out and it's in uh England so there's a 90% chance of rain with a 10% chance of cats and dogs very very promising but bring a raincoat you'll be fine uh thanks again for everybody for watching the show give us a thumbs up down below and subscribe if you haven't already we'll be back again the same time next week until next time bye bye