The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists. Josh Gala from Valtoro. Yo, yo, yo folks. Martin Wishmer from General Bites. Good morning, crypto. Lamar Wilson from Black Bitcoin billionaires. What's happening? And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Bank of America to allow Bitcoin futures for some clients. Anonymous sources have told CoinDesk that Bank of America may already be set up to trade Bitcoin with more on the way. According to the sources, they'll allow Bitcoin and Bitcoin futures trading for some clients. This comes on these heels of Bank of America, starting a specific research department and an entire team dedicated to cryptocurrencies. Josh Gala, what do you think about Bank of America? Perhaps allowing Bitcoin futures? Thanks, Bank of America. You're so nice to us. Oh, I see it as another distortion of the markets really. I mean, futures were there for those that don't know to help farmers, for instance. You don't have enough money for the crop. So you sell the crop in the future at today's price to get some money in and then you plant the seeds and then the crop goes up. And then maybe it's like a killer season and you've got a monopoly on the crop and wow, that sucked because now you've got to pay. You've sold the crop for cheaper than it's actually worth. But with Bitcoin, all these instruments start to distort. I just find them a little bit distortionary. I think they are important as well, just like shorting is an important part of the market. But when organizations like Deutsche Bank or Bank of America or large institutions come in, I kind of feel that they use these mechanisms to manipulate the price. And when you're manipulating price on something that's the rarest asset on earth apart from individual people, you've really, there's a big opportunity there for them. They can really manipulate the price and buy up those rare assets and keep them until they got. So yeah, I'm always a little bit careful with these sorts of things. Martin, where's Mayor? Well, yeah, I think they do it because they can make money on it and it's probably the customers asking. Personally, I don't put any money in those derivatives because if you want to Bitcoin to go up, just purchase some Bitcoin or your other favorite cryptocurrency Bitcoin. So yeah, if people, if there's a market for it, they'll sell personally, I'd stay away from it. It's probably some custodial solution. You really don't want to burn your fingers on. But it's great. It's good to see that mainstream retail banks are getting interested in selling or being custodial for the rarest asset we have on this planet named Bitcoin. So that's, yeah, any news is good news. But I agree with Josh here that, yeah, banks are just there to make money and they're probably not there in Europe for you. So just buy some Bitcoin, hold it, store it safe on a treasure or on ledger and enjoy the rights that will be my advice. I'm shocked to learn that Bank of America is not on board with your freedom agenda. So Mar Wilson, your thoughts on Bank of America perhaps accepting Bitcoin? Yeah, I think the part that I'm looking at is more so that the some clients, I think that's very important to look at because if you have noticed, many of these banks have said they're going to provide access to these assets for some of their clients and usually they're talking about their high network individuals. And I think that is a signal. It's almost like a dog whistle to everyone basically saying that if you're not a high network individual, then you don't deserve Bitcoin. And I'm not in Bitcoin for that. I'm in Bitcoin for freedom. I'm in Bitcoin for everyone. And I'm in Bitcoin to be an actual alternative to the actual system or the nasty system that the banks have in place right now. So I think that some clients is always a bit of a worrisome thing for me because it may make people believe that they're not worthy. But if you are listening to this right now and you want Bitcoin, you can get it really, really easy. It is the people's currency. It is the people's asset. It is the people's whatever you want it to be because it is a tool that helps you to get closer and closer to freedom and self-solvering. So yeah, that's some clients. I don't really don't get down with that much, man. I don't like that terminology. But it seems like more and more banks are starting to say that. And it seems like they're trying to make it the asset of the wealthy. So please go out in front of the wealthy. Right on, man. Well said. Yeah. Everyone more. And I just want to take a little victory lap on this one. I always said that it would be Bank of America whenever we talked about what bank it would be. And I've always said that they would come to this. So it's very strange to be in Bitcoin so early when they're like, that's a Ponzi scheme, you're ripping everyone off, you're some kind of Silk Road drug addict, all those kind of things. And now it's like Bank of America has an entire division researching that scam, researching that drug addict. So it's great to see that turn around, even if it is only Bank of America, which is really the Bank of Italy, I think it was in San Francisco. But moving on to the exit question, is this the domino that knocks all the other dominoes down? Bank of America as expected by this article does accept Bitcoin. Will all the other banks have no choice but to join in? Josh Shigala. Yeah, I mean, generally this is what happens, you know, competition for rises. And at the end of the day, banks are really struggling. Retail banks are basically just service providers for other services that they plug in. So insurance for instance and stuff like that. So when you log into your bank, you will usually see other things that you can get. And this is kind of what it's turned into. So they're looking for other products and they've got to plug it in. But, you know, yeah, Bitcoin don't need no bank. We got into this to get out of the banks, exactly what the math says. So, screw them, too late. You're high. You know, these banks, you've got to remember folks. These banks built such massive moats around themselves, regulatory moats to protect themselves while making it look like we're protecting the consumer. But it was protect to protect their business model from startups. And Bitcoin was so left to field or right to field or out of the picture, out of the box that they just didn't think about that this was coming. And all of a sudden it looks like it can really seriously disrupt their entire system. So now they're like, er, some of the high networks, of course, are like, come on, let me in just like, what's his name say? Look, I want to be able to short the mortgages of America and in a mortgage back securities. And of course, they're like, well, if you're that crazy, we'll build that product for you. So I think this is what probably is happening. Well, it's like we've been saying it and saying it and saying it and saying it. Martin, where's mayor? Your thoughts on Bank of America? I'm a no. Well, definitely see more banks, you know, starting to do this. But I always say with Bitcoin, you are your own bank. If you want to, you know, you can run your own notes, you can run your own wallets, you can connect your own wallet to your own notes. So instead of relying on a third party, you know, provider for your wallet, you're actually, you know, running on your own infrastructure and then you, you become Bitcoin. So I think for some clients, this is like a bridge too far that they'd rather have a custodial solution. For the rest of us, I'd say, you know, don't let the banks crew you with their rates and there's fees and everything just to take the short road, learn a little bit and then just fire up your own umbrella note and become part of Bitcoin and we don't need of banks. Now, the Mar Wilson will Bank of America be the domino that knocks them all over? Will I get some free Bitcoin instead of a toaster next time I open an account? I think, I think what's going to happen, man, I think Bank of America is a domino, but I think the domino already existed in the form of PayPal coinbase and all these other reasons why I say that is because when you start seeing the earnings reports from Coinbase and PayPal and everyone else making all of this money on trading Bitcoin, the banks are looking like, hmm, this is a way for us to get fees out of our clientele and so we want to have access to this as fast as possible. So I think the domino started to fall when coin, especially when Coinbase went public because they saw how much revenue that this company was making just by trading Bitcoin. So I think they'll continue to try to cope with derivatives and all of this other stuff that has nothing to do with Bitcoin at all just so they can get fees from you. So they can be the rent secrets that they are and they will continue to do that and that's why I'm saying just go get your own Bitcoin, screw the futures, screw custodian Bitcoin behind bank walls and get your own wallet and hold onto your own Bitcoin and run your own, run your own note when you get there. But make sure that you understand that the banks are only doing this so they can get fees from you from trading because all they have to do is update a database and that's really cheap for them to do so. That's funny because I've always felt that Coinbase was kind of chasing Cripsy and then later chasing Binance as more and more strange products were offered and they're like, if only we could get those fees for those altcoins. If only we could get those fees for that DeFi or whatever the thing is and then now to see Bank of America, the mainstream institutions looking at Coinbase, who we think of as, you know, still pretty boring although they have some crazy altcoins and they're like, we're jealous of them. We want their fees. Once again, to remind everyone, this is also the Trojan horse of Bitcoin is being taken inside the walls, right? They tried to fight it off. They said, it's a Ponzi, it's a scam, it's for Silk Road, only it's for dirty purchases, all that stuff. And then all the while they're like, this looks pretty nice and like Lamar was saying that their clients are demanding it. Their high wealth clients are like, we want to buy the Bitcoin. Everyone else is getting rich on. We want to get richer. And so the banks are like, yeah, just bring that Trojan horse inside the walls. It looks really nice now. Then now they're like, oh, it's a nice horse before we were like, it was kind of ugly and gosh, but now we're like, it's a sweet horse. So we'll see what happens with that after night falls. Moving on to issue two issue two coin base CEO hits back at Dogecoin creator after attack on cult like Bitcoin and crypto price culture. Jackson Palmer, who is a really creator of Dogecoin and has a really unique way of using Twitter. Jackson only puts out one tweet at a time, waits for it to become so big they write an article about it, then he deletes the tweet. It's a whole new way of using the platform. I'm really impressed with Jackson there. But what Jackson said, he said that Bitcoin was an inherently right wing hyper capitalistic technology built primarily to amplify the wealth of its proponents through a combination of tax avoidance, diminished regulatory oversight and artificially enforced scarcity. I think the scarcity is real, but I don't know about our official. This is a major broad side against Bitcoin. Many people who have made lots of money like coin base CEO Brian Armstrong fought back against Jackson arguing that crypto is simply providing an alternative for people who want more freedom and claiming that Bitcoin has made so many people wealthy, which kind of lends into Jackson's point. Let's go to Martin Wissmer. Are you ready? What do you think about Jackson Palmer, Brian Armstrong and Dogecoin getting political? I think he's just being really sour. The guy who created the cryptocurrency because he hated cryptocurrencies, then made no money on it, maybe paid off his second hand car with it, but he made no millions, he could have made billions. Now claims it's some sort of political thing. Well, I've been working since my early 20s. I've been involved with digital currencies. Digital cash, e-cash, then came e-gold and came crazy liberty reserve. It always attracted a bit of a weird crowd. Whether they were some weird libertarians or something, but it also attracted like nerds, crypto nerds, crypto cypher punks like me. What we wanted is a payment layer for the internet because the internet gave everybody access to information. But for many people that just had the internet and no credit card, they couldn't purchase online or anything. So they were left out. The payment layer was missing from the worldwide web since it was invented. Bitcoin is a payment layer. Whether you use Bitcoin or you use Bitcoin over lightning, it is a payment layer. Him saying he was like, oh, it's just, it's just, I don't know, I come to a hundred repeated, but he's just like sour, sour, sour. And I think, you know, with such an attitude, he doesn't even deserve his doge coin. That's what I think. Not even a single solitary doge for Jackson. Lamar Wilson, your thoughts on Jackson Palmer's political rant. Yeah, I think Jackson, he's been doing this, right? He did this a couple years ago. He wrote a whole article about it. How he was getting out of it, getting rid of those coins. I think he's going to continue to do it. And it's because he doesn't really understand, right? I got to believe he understands Bitcoin. He might have cloned Bitcoin software or actually cloned Litecoin and created those and changed a few parameters and put that out in the world and made a joke out of it. But I don't think you truly understand what's going on here. Like my man, Martin said, think about it from this standpoint. The internet is there. So why not have the internet of money? And when you have the internet of money, that changes the way we use it and it goes back to the freedom. And I just think it's very weird that Brian Armstrong would take this political stance. Seeing as how he said he was not going to do anything political, but he's taking this stance because you know what? This is touching his pocket. See what I'm saying? When it touches your pocket now, all of a sudden you got to start talking. Because he knows that Jackson coming out saying something as a creator of a cryptocurrency, understanding what the government they don't understand. So they're going to look at it go. When this creator said it all it is for us to, for them to make a lot of money off of it into to evade taxes. So he said it's a now Brian Armstrong. Feels like he needs to speak out against something political. But you know, we over at the Black Bitcoin billionaire understand what he did speak out against. You understand what I'm saying? Because that wasn't touching his pocket. So now let him deal with Jackson Palmer. We all understand it. Whatever Jackson says doesn't really matter. He's like the dude that came to the park and played basketball. And then when the real players came, he couldn't play anymore. Nobody picked him up. So he said screw basketball. This is the worst sport on earth. And that's pretty much what happened. Like he just can't, we can't play anymore. So he's trying to take his ball and down basketball and say it's killing children. You know what I mean? So this is where we are right now. But I think, yeah, it's stuff of blow over. This is not a new story really. It's just two guys that are going back and forth just like we do on Twitter every day. So I don't think it's that big of a deal. Excellent points. Lamar. And I remember back in 2014 when Jackson quit Dozecoin for the first time. And I did a little video about it on probably on mad Bitcoin's at the time. And I said something like, it's okay to quit a thing. You want to walk away your board with it. You're tired of it. But Jackson wrote a whole big screen about how Dozecoin was bad and Bitcoin was bad. And I think the price of Dozecoin at that time, it was probably very small, but it went down like 70%. Everyone was depressed. Everyone lost their money. The project was hurt. And my main point was like, okay, leave anything you want, but just kind of walk away or Irish goodbye. Jackson was like, I have to kill this thing. And then I'm going to leave. And then it didn't die. And then it didn't die again. It didn't die again. And then Elon Musk is being called Dodge Dozefather now. And it's just that he can't kill this thing. So I don't know. I want to send some empathy out for my friend Jackson. I really do like Jackson. We've hung out many times. He's a good guy. He invented Dozecoin as a joke. He's got a sweet job at Adobe. I don't think he worries about anything. He's got a cool girlfriend. He's a good dude. But yeah, he just doesn't like cryptocurrency. He could have made a billion dollars office. Like that's got to ring in the back of his mind a little. But I do think he's got some points on the political things. But I want Josh to go. And then maybe I'll chime in some more. Josh, a golly, your thoughts on Jackson saying, it coins only for the right wing, only for the tax avoidance. Yeah, look, I mean, the thing is that right wing and left wing is such a bullshit terms. No one really knows what they even mean anymore. They're two wings on the same bird. And they're just, they're a nice paradigm to keep people locked into nonsense. I was the inventor of the first swap site where people swapped clothes way back in the day. And I soon realized that it was a shit system. Because if you have a shirt that I really love, and I say, hey, you want to swap, and I have nothing you like, then the deal falls through. Even though there's an entire marketplace there where I could give you some sort of credit or token or something that would represent value. So you could, it would just open up your world. So the thing of saying, it's hyper capitalistic. Well, what do you want? You want to trade, you want to buy milk and eggs and stuff for how you're going to do it, man. Where you're going to paint everyone's house that you want some stuff for, like if you're a painter, no. Like, you got a capital is a really, really important part of society. And, and, and moving those tokens or credits or whatever you want to call them. I mean, I don't like credits. I like money, you know, actual money that's found into existence and doesn't have to go, you know, back to a bank with interest that doesn't exist. So this is why Bitcoin is just a beautiful system. It's, it's found into existence rather than a lent into existence. And, and, and it's, and it's just amazing. You know, as for Jackson, I mean, I feel really bad for him, but he definitely should do the Fed as well. He should write a big tweet storm about the Fed. And how, how hyper nonsense that is and how it's actually, you know, make sure that it's like the Fed system is literally a game of musical chairs and there's just sweet, effortless chairs, you know, and everyone has to walk around and the soon as the music stops, there's just not enough chairs to sit down on. There's a bunch of poor people that just cannot get the money because it's not there. There's too much interest owing for the money that's available in the system. And this is just crap. It's just a crap system. And anyone that stands up for that system needs to be laughed at because obviously, I mean, he's not a dumb guy, Jackson, you know, I'm just, come on, now do the Fed, man. Just as with the energy argument, the gold bullion system uses seven times the energy of Bitcoin, the banking system uses seven times the energy of Bitcoin. And I think the PlayStation's being left on the always on devices, uses like 10 times the energy of Bitcoin, but they never talk about that because that's complicated and difficult to calculate. It's easier to just multiply how much energy Bitcoin's using it. Say, oh, my, if you multiply things, they the numbers go up, shocking. Let's move on to the exit question. Will Jackson Palmer ever change his mind, the long tortured creator of Dogecoin, Bitcoin at 30,000, Ethereum at 2000, Dogecoin, I don't know, 30 cents, but one point it was 70 cents. All of this happens. Elon Musk, mainstream interest, Mark Cuban, all these people, and yet still Jackson, when will he change his mind, Martín Wismer? Go ahead. Well, technically he's a no-coiner now, so I don't think he will change his mind. And if he's got all his money in dollars, then he's all for the Federal Reserve, and probably knows that the Federal Reserve is not Federal, and they have no reserve. So he's living his fantasy. I wouldn't even bother to try to convince him to go back into crypto, but we shouldn't give him that much attention. And apparently Thomas says he's a cool guy. I believe Thomas on his worth, and his girlfriend is nice, so that says something too. But for the rest of crypto opinions, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not for me. He's an Australian, they're just great to have at parties. They're always fun. Lamar Wilson, exit question on Jackson. Willie Changes Bond. You're muted this time. Yeah, listen, I met Jackson. He was one of the people that was supposed to be a mentor at Boost VC, and I met him then. He was a really, really, really cool guy, man. And I don't think, listen, I don't think he's coming back, and I don't know why any of us care, like to be honest. That's why I love Bitcoin. Do what you want for yourself. Like, you know, we don't need leaders, we don't need heroes. This is about you, yourself, sovereignty, and your ability to do what you want to do with your money, with your asset. So that, to me, it's like, I don't think you'll ever come back. Like, you know, I would love to talk to him again and chill with him and all of that, but I mean, that dude is, he, anybody who writes long hit pieces to try to get other, to the tear other people from touching something, they're probably not gonna come back. Because that, I mean, it's just too much to overcome. Like, if he comes back and says, I have Bitcoin and I have those and all of this other stuff, like nobody is going to ever listen to him again, man. It's the story of the boy that cried wolf. So if he's trying to kill it, he can't, he can't be the person that kills Michael Myers and be Michael Myers at the same time. It's not gonna work that. So that's where we are. He could start those coin, too. It's all the features of those coin, but with a two on the end. Josh Shagalla, Will Jackson come back. Nah, it's like my current, you know, just sort of rage quit and then what are you gonna do? You can sort of work on some other projects here and there, but it's also like, Bitcoin, there was a subreddit of Bitcoin. They were like slagging Bitcoin at like, you know, two, three bucks, you know, this guy's sitting there slagging it. And everyone else is like, guys, what can't you see? This is the first red digital asset. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, all right, keep slagging. And then eventually they just get, you know, but coin gets butt hurt and it's just, it's horrible to watch, but at the end of the day, you know, let's perfectly spot on. We don't need no heroes. We don't need no stinking badges. We just get on with life. Like it's, we don't need these cold of personalities. Bitcoin is Bitcoin. That's why it's the touchy left. We don't need people leading this thing. It's, you know, if you want something, have some, if you don't, then you don't, whatever. No, that's, can I say something really quick? That's a prime example though. That's why it's the touchy left. Because it's the touchy was around and he spoke up and was like, man, Bitcoin just sucks. Like think about all the ripples it would cause to everything. So it's the touchy new, see he, they'll knew like it's time to go. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, spot on. The panel is united. Jackson will not be coming back, but you can stay on my couch any time, man. And I hope we can go sing some karaoke and go drinking in San Francisco again soon. As soon as we can get this whole pandemic thing over with, moving on, check out the world crypto network shop at shop. World crypto network.com. We've got treasures. Don't float the t-shirt. We've got world crypto network. The mug. Look, I got one of those right here. A world crypto network stuff at shop. World crypto network.com issue three square is building a decentralized finance business using Bitcoin. That's right. Square wants to have defy applications, which rely on smart contracts rather than banks or other third parties to execute transactions. They're apparently not interested in Ethereum, EOS or any of the other usual suspects. They want to do it on Bitcoin. Lamar Wilson, your thoughts on square building a decentralized finance system on Bitcoin. I think it's great. I think everything needs to be decentralized. I think that's the decentralization is about empowerment. Centralization is about being in power. I think anyone who's focusing on decentralization is a good thing. To build it on the strongest blockchain in the world, the most secure blockchain in the world, I think is smart as well. The thing I like about it the most is that it's going to be over-sourced and they're going to open that up to developers to be able to develop with it and move that initiative along. I think all of that together is really, really, really cool. I just always want to tell people, this is not the first time that large business has taken on open-source software and basically subsidized it. I remember BitPay did the co-pay wallet, the multi-set co-pay wallet. These companies are doing that. It's not like a huge thing, but it is really good to see especially public-traded companies like Square take up the mantle and say, you know what? We want to move towards decentralization. I think the key name is, I think the code name right now is TBD. Everybody thinks it's to be determined, but I think my man, Mao Sutter said it's to be decentralized. I think that's really what's going on. I think it's a really, really good thing. I hope other companies come along and try to push that initiative forward as well. I remember that. It wasn't too long after that that BitGo, I think, tried to copyright the entire concept of multi-sig, so they would control it for everyone leading Peter Todd to famously quip BitGo. Oh, whenever I think of that company, I always think, BitGo fuck yourself. BitGo fuck yourself. Yes. Josh Shagalli, your thoughts on Square building a decentralized finance system. Man, I don't think I've ever heard such as a sophisticated GoFuck yourself. Yeah, I absolutely love it. I think it's fantastic. I think DeFi is the shit I really love. I love decentralized finance. I think it's super fascinating the area. When we first started Bautoro, it was after the Mt. Gox hack. My brother and I sat down to try and figure out how to build a decentralized exchange. We're over these exchanges running away. There was a whole gamut of exchanges that were just going vast or online wallets just disappearing. I just got so angry because back then, you'd get just clueless journalist saying, the CEO of Bitcoin was run off with everyone's money. It just stopped like that. So I was like, let's build a decentralized exchange. But the problem was, Bitcoin's opportune codes just aren't built for the complex structures you need for that. Instead, we focused building Bautoro with an allocated asset like gold. But focused on transparency because the blockchain, Bitcoin blockchain can be really, really good, useful in transparency. We did that. But now that we've built the standard, let's share here, we're building it on Ethereum because it's got the network effect of the other applications that are finance. And I really want to build it on Bitcoin, and I was looking and looking and looking, but it's not ready yet. So I'm really, really excited about this. I think it's great. We'll definitely work on adding some development to that project, depending on how well it's starting to look. And you know, try to build a bridge across to those, because I think if we can build a bridge across to the Ethereum space, which is vast now, it really is vast. And it's very, very fascinating, because they are taking on Wall Street with a lot of the functions, which is really, really cool to have non-custodial ability to do complex lending and things like this, a really, really, really fascinating space. So I hope that we can do it on Bitcoin. I don't really care if it is or not, because Bitcoin, to me, is this beautiful story value. It's the original crypto. It will always have value no matter how many extra features it gets. But I think it is definitely such an exciting space that I hope that maybe we can see more complex code being written and programs being written for Bitcoin. Martin, Wismer. I think it's exciting to see, unfortunately, I've been reading about Square and the cash app and their seller point of sale type of app. Unfortunately, it's not available here in Europe. So when I go to the Play Store, I see cash app, no, not available for any of your devices or not available in your region. I think open sourcing it and decentralizing it would also give the other parts of the world access. I think it makes sense. If you look at Bitcoin, it's a decentralized cryptocurrency. So why do we feel the need to build centralized services on top of this layer of decentralized currency? So this is also the recent menu of our clients, the general bites, who operate networks of Bitcoin ATMs, they all run their own server. Like 90%. This is 10% doesn't like to run their own server, so they run it in a cloud server that we can provide them. But all the other ones, they use their own server. And this is the way it should be. For if this stuff is decentralized, it will only make the network stronger. And I think Jack understands that. And he thinks for it to succeed and maybe become a standard in payment point of sale apps, maybe buying Bitcoin app, it needs to be decentralized. It will, I think it was good for the industry. I also read in the article that he purchased title, which is his streaming platform, like last summer or less than a year ago. And I never use it because I'm always like, always Spotify. But I had a look tonight. It looked like awesome. So just imagine that you could stream sets over lightning to your favorite artist while you're listening. And that's the way they are making their money. I mean, we've seen pilots on this lightning app called Breeze. And you can like visit your favorite podcast. And then while you're listening, you can constantly stream sets every minute. Now imagine doing this with all your favorite artists, not just podcasts, but like any artist. It would totally revolutionize the entire, you know, music industry. So I think he is onto something. And and and therefore I really think it's really cool. And just just fantastic. And as soon as there is some code out there, I'll definitely have a look at it to see where I can improve or where I can change, or maybe tap it into the general by network of ATMs. I don't know, but we'll definitely see, see something out of coming out of this. So yes, Jack super. Thank you. Exit question. Jack Dorsey is famously the CEO of Twitter and Square. Will Jack Dorsey be the most successful dual CEO in history? Even more successful than Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett? Or will the price of Bitcoin dip causing investors to seize Jack's offices with pitchforks and torches tearing down his kingdom? Lamar Wilson, your thoughts on the future of Jack. I think the price, the Bitcoin price will have that much of a say so on Jack Dorsey and what he's doing at those two locations. Because he hasn't taken a huge amount of risk when it comes to what's going on in like cash app, his work. I think he was like 1% of his treasury or something like that. He didn't commit a lot of his treasury to it. So I don't think that's going to stop him. But yeah, I mean, he is definitely doing a good job running both of these companies from a, I guess from a social standpoint. I mean, I don't know the numbers of Twitter or Square to understand from a business standpoint. I don't really follow the companies that well, even though I do own Square stock, but I've been owning it for a while. So I am a shareholder, but I just hold on to it because I feel like Square knows them, man. I'm not going to get into that. I've been holding that for a very long time. But yeah, so yeah, I think he's a really cool guy, really dope dude. And I think he, the him even thinking about Bitcoin and the way he does is what I think more CEOs that say they like Bitcoin, they need to start putting their money where their mouth is like he's doing and he's starting this new business. So yeah, I appreciate that. But outside of that, I'm not going, I don't know if he's going to be better than Bayes also, whatever. Who knows? Jack Dorsey not in trouble, but Michael Sailor better watch out. Josh Seagala. I don't know, man. Yeah. It's weird seeing these like super Uber elite in terms of wealthy getting into this and starting to really work with it. I think it's amazing. I thought it would take longer until this happens. But Jack's been into it for a while now. He's been pushing, pushing and I think he passed the lightning torch as well. Maybe he was the one that plugged it. I don't know. Someone did. Yeah, I don't know. It'll be wealthy, whatever happens. No worries for the man in the nice sandals. Martin, wish me your thoughts on the future of Jack Dorsey. Oh, he'll do okay. I think even if it wouldn't succeed, he'll be, I don't think he'll either lops their less or restake less because of it. But I don't think he will be as rich as Jeff Bezos because you have to be a bit of a this dickhead CEO like the Apple guy and then Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos like prevent people from joining a union. I think Jack Dorsey is not like that. He's more like the hippie approach. I don't know any of them, but this is like what I see in the media. I think Jack is more like the relaxed guy. And he didn't, I don't know whether Lamar or you said it. Like 1% of his assets went into crypto. I think this is a pretty smart move. It's asymmetric risk. The risk of everything going down the drain would mean that he loses 1%. But the chances are much higher that it will fly. So the risk is the returns are asymmetric. So there's a good chance that he'll make a lot of money on this. And I think it's good that he's like open sourcing it. A lot of times people think that you can't make money on open source. But that's not entirely true. If you do it, if you plan it carefully, you can make money of open source. Like the general bias platform is for the large respire open source. It means that anybody can create their wallets and exchanges and everything. But still, we are the ones making the ATMs. Same thing for a redhead. You can install redhead linux on an EPC and it's free. But if you want to have enterprise support, that's where you start paying. So there is business in open source. And I think it would be a really smart move from square to open source. Also open source, like the title that I think this is just the most even more than the sketch app or this point of sale. There's no money in point of sale. So but there is there is a screaming media. And if this is the way of the future where you just pay your favorite artist, just send them some shots while you're listening automatically. This is fantastic. This would totally change the music industry. And I think he's onto something there. So yeah, you know, one thing if I can add to that is that, you know, I really, you know, everyone's celebrating like Michael sailor buying billions of dollars with Bitcoin. And of course that wow, yeah, great, good on you. But I like the fact that really you should put a little bit of money into some of the developers and develop on Bitcoin. That will do a lot more for your investment than just piling more money into it and letting everyone out sort of like a free rider approach of like, oh, well, we're just going to ride on everyone else's hard work. And profit from it, you know, I think it's, you know, companies like ours and the work you've been doing in general, by us and the work that Lamar does. Yeah, we're all putting value into the system. Of course, you know, Michael sailor is talking about it and there's always on the radio and stuff as well, but his resources are vast. And it would be great if they if they just chucked, you know, a few a few million dollars at certain developments in the space that are needed. That would be great. So seeing DeFi come to Bitcoin is a really great development. I'm just really, really looking forward to it. There is already things like the, of course, the guys from Latin America, what's the protocol that sidechain on Bitcoin. Oh, let's slip my mind now. But that's also smart contract built on Bitcoin. SKR. Are you? Not counterparty. Anyway, let's slip. I'm sorry. RSK. RSK. RSK, of course. Of RSK. And, you know, that's really cool. So I'm wondering maybe are they going to help there? You know, help that side of the project. I'm not sure. Well, Jack Doris, he's been a prime Bitcoin citizen and a good example so far. I like the way he's fended off all the people who are like, why don't you add Dogecoin? Why don't you add this coin? Why don't you add that coin? He's been very good on the straightforward cash app is a Bitcoin app. And it's interesting to see them take that stance while Brian Armstrong's over there at Coinbase. And we'll take any coin you got. We'll even take Dogecoin, which we call the joke and a bad investment and not safe and all those things. Well, it's popular. We'll take it. Jack is the other way. Just taking Bitcoin. I'd like to see that. Moving on to issue four. Issue four. Curio cards. Curio cards NFT. And NFT created in 2017 by Thomas Hunt, Travis Eurig, and Rhett Creighton has suddenly become popular again. The unsuccessful startup after launching the cards as ERC 20 tokens went away for four years leaving the cards in a vending machine contract. Later on NFT archaeologist found the cards in an NFT in a vending machine contract, purchased all the cards and began speaking about Curio cards. That was a few months ago. Now within the last 24 hours, Curio cards appears to have gone viral. While once there was only 500 owners, now there's more than 1,100 owners of the cards. And the volume has gone up from 1.2 from below 1000 Ethereum traded or about a million dollars. Is that right? Two about 2.8 million dollars in just 24 hours during a period last night during our live show. Four or five cards were purchased for a total of $80,000. Some in the double digit Ethereum range, 10, 20, a picture of mad bitcoins drawn as a wizard sold for $36,000 alone. Josh Shagalla, your thoughts on the rediscovery of Curio cards. Also the project was has been discovered by Gary V. Famous Twitter personality with 2 million followers. And Darryl Mori, president of the Philadelphia 76ers, who changed his profile picture to a picture of my friend Rhett, who's a computer programmer. Josh Shagalla, your thoughts on Curio cards. Yeah, well, I'd love to see Rhett back on the show. I think it's fantastic your visionary. What you guys built there, I think it was very interesting back then. But you know, I was I was talking for a long this time. I didn't really understand why someone wanted buy a digital thing. I think it's kind of for me it's kind of a two-edge sword. Like what I love about VR is going there and anyone can create as much real estate as they want. As many weird things and cars and you see some skateboard riding around with eyes. Then you see some here some voice going, hey man, and you look down it's like a skateboard with eyes and you're like tripping out and thinking, wow, that's crazy. And it's just the weirdest world ever that anyone can create anything. And what I would hate to see is homelessness in VR because they kind of forward the NFT for that thing for that house. You know, that would suck. For me it's like digital items as weird thing. But then the other day I was you know, as you can see, I moved into my new place and there's no art on the wall. And we were we were I was talking to the artist that I wanted to get one of these photos from and I said, well, actually what an NFT. And then I had to explain why I think it would be good because if I bought one of these paintings with an NFT, I could then resell that painting with the NFT to prove that it's an original one of his. It would it would allow him to make scarcity of his works. So only 100 prints or whatever and 100 NFTs. And I could then sell it on and prove absolutely that I got this from this guy. And it would have to sell with the picture. And for the first time I sort of clicked and of course for you Thomas, you this clicked for you a long time ago. And so I'm really glad to see that finally you're getting a retribution for that and people are actually recognizing your work in that. But you know, there's been a bunch of people in crypto that this has happened to for instance, Adam B. Levine, for instance, he invented a whole bunch of stuff. Even the word token first sort of came from him for a long time. Like everyone was talking about coins and he was like, no, tokens, you know, it's about token. It's giving me, you know, no one's recognizing for that stuff. So, you know, some of these early Bitcoin came up with a lot of stuff. And so it's great to secure accounts actually getting getting that recognition it deserves for them. Thank you so much. Martian Wishmare, your thoughts on Kiro cards which some are saying is the first art NFTs on Ethereum. I think they're fantastic. It's good to see that like, you know, years later they get rediscovered. I didn't understand the hell value behind the NFTs at first. To be honest, I was just like, Josh, I was late to the party. And now if I want to have like Thomas Hunt in a special agent, 007 outfit, Curio card number 20, I can't even afford it anymore. So, you know, I'm just too late to the party, but I do see the value of this. Like, where Josh said, you know, you can like authenticate real art for on your wall. The Cipher Punk or the crypto artist Martin Fisher from Prague. I've got some works downstairs. And they are authenticated on the blockchain. So if I sell it, I can prove that it's an original, but what I'd really like to see is that the original creator gets a kickback on that. Like, for example, if somebody sells a Curio card that the original creators get a tiny percentage of that. So that they stay in the loop. So that it's not the auction houses and the fancy galleries that will make all the money. And basically the artist doesn't really benefit from it. But I think in the future or in the future, like now we should have a system where the original artist is compensated for every time you know, this artwork sells. So in the future, they get the royalties out of it. And not exactly on a like on the topic of Curio cards, but it is NFT. And I read somewhere, like, you know, everybody has these smart watches nowadays. And they come with boring, boring watch faces. So I think there is a good market for NFTs there that you can buy it like, you know, really arty watch faces for your smartwatch. And that you actually can prove that you are the owner of that original artwork, which is your watch. It's not just a watch, it's your watch, you know, and it's with original artwork. So that I think is a good application for it. So yeah, we'll see a lot more happening in this space. And it's fantastic that the Curio cards finally get like, you know, the attention they really deserve. Well, I'm not really half the attention they deserve, but still, you know, they're more, it's coming alive. It just you were just too early again. You know, you were just too early, you were too early with the world crypto network, you know, before people people, you know, when you started with world crypto network, people thought with crypto, they thought about crypto nights, the stuff that killed Superman. So zero viewers at the time. Then with the years ago with with the NFTs before they were NFTs, but they were collectibles, you know, so yeah, maybe you should just like, you know, you did twice and two times timing was off. So, you know, I have an incredible startup formula. I start the company up. We go out of business four years later where runaway success. So you just have to you have to hang in there for my projects. They last long time. There is a 1% royalty on the Curio cards that are sold through Open C that does go directly to the artist. It's split evenly amongst just the artist. Nobody else. They are some are saying that Curio cards belong in a museum. Perhaps the British museum, the German museums, Smithsonian, Metropolitan, or maybe all four. Like it would be fun that you could say that as a sentence, but something like that might happen. Lamar Wilson, your thoughts on the incredible developments in Curio cards. I had no idea it was coming. Yeah. So here's the thing. I am going to disagree with Josh MRT. Now the Curio card part, yeah, I'm cool with because it's a digital NFT. I don't believe in having a digital representation of a physical good because there are too many ways to game that system in that situation. Like in Josh's case of him putting the him buying the art from the guy on the wall and him having the digital NFT. Josh can be a humdinger and basically get a replica of that same art on the wall and sell the NFT and he stay, he keeps the original. You know what I mean? And nobody will be able to authenticate because there's no way to do it because even if you put a QR code, you can do all kinds of things on the physical art and it still wouldn't matter because you can just replicate all of that in the physical world. But from a digital standpoint, if you can digitally sign a file, then that actually allows you to see that this digitally signed file is actually the one that signed by whoever the person who had access to that private key. And I think that is very interesting. I think NFTs are just collectibles. People always say, well, you can make all these copies of it. Who cares? There's a whole lot of copies of Louisville's Flugger Bets. But the one that is signed by Hank Aaron is worth a whole lot more. You know? So even in that environment, I get it from a digital standpoint. I just don't like the physical one because it doesn't really match up if you really think about it. But I love the fact that my man Thomas, old school, super OG, been on him forever. Like mad bitcoins, like that guy came out with the Curio cards. And I think it's really crazy because it's an OG Bitcoiner that did what it's like the new wave or what everybody loves in Ethereum. And they always like Bitcoiners are just so slow and they're so archaic and they don't know what's going on. And I'm thinking to myself, man, like, you don't understand. People have been doing this stuff for a long time. I mean, we did NFTs on top of Bitcoin on the Bitcoin derivative with open assets, right? And when you talk about color coins and those kind of things, so it's like, we've done this stuff and I am very happy and proud of my man. Hopefully you get in some economic benefit outside of the 1% royalty. Hopefully you all have the actual keys to create more Curio cards or something. I don't know. Like if it's blowing up like that, hopefully you guys have benefited from it in some form of fashion because that's my favorite part of NFTs. It's not necessarily the using Ethereum and using all this other stuff. And I wanted to fight back on that with Josh too, who we want to do at the end of the show about Ethereum being really used. Oh, what am I doing? I'm holding money, man. Oh, my God. Showing off showing off. Like Pittiness Club, man. What is that? I did not mean to do that. I'm putting it over there. No, but I do want to say that, like, I want to fight back on that with Josh later about Ethereum being used the whole lot. But I do want to say that I love the fact that my man, man, Bitcoin's utilized Ethereum during the time when everything was very, you know, when everybody was experimenting with stuff, man, and you bought something really cool to the table. The Fiat threw me off. So yeah, that's all I want to say, man. I'm glad that Curio cards are doing what they're doing. Oh, that's what I was going to say. That's the biggest part of NFTs for me is that the artist can get their money. Like go get your money, man. And exchange it for Bitcoin as fast as possible. But go get your money, sell yourself, find a new marketplace, and then exchange it as fast as possible for Bitcoin. That's what it was. That's what I was trying to say. Well, it's been really great. It's a really fun couple of days. The Discord has been going crazy. We had a great Twitter space. It's hang out. People are finally tweeting about it. All the stuff in the Discord is really positive. People are at first, I wasn't sure about this art, but now I really like it. And this crypto lurker did a fun video where she postulated about what the first 10 cards story was. And it's getting kind of biblical and kind of romantic and just has a really great story to it. So I love all that input. I always look at it. I'm always like, where were you four years ago? Huh? Because I tweeted about this. I made YouTube videos. I did what I could. But it's great that they're here now. It's like, Gandalf on the third day on the hill. It's like, he showed up. Everything's fine now. So yeah, I've just, I've always been in baseball cards. I've always been into collectibles. Curio cards are really neat because they do, despite what Jackson might say, have an enforced rarity. If it says there's 2000 cards, there's only 2000 cards. That's it. What's also neat about them is opposed to my real baseball cards and my comic books or my records or anything. You can't bend them. You can't break them. They're always in mint condition. So these are always very fine. Curio cards in mint condition. Josh, do you in Lamar want to talk about Ethereum for a little bit? I have the question isn't very political. So go ahead Lamar. Yeah, yeah, go on, man. Oh, this is what I was going to say, right? Mr. Thank, I try to always explain to people. Right now, if you actually go look on chain of Ethereum and you look at the number one contract, which is UniSwap, like UniSwap. And I think UniSwap, I've heard you're saying might be the largest now, most used from a wallet perspective. You're only seeing about 46,000 unique wallets a day using that contract. And if you go to the very next contract, it's around 6,000 wallets and you keep going down and you only get to about 200 contracts that are actually being used on Ethereum for a grand total of maybe all together and all of the, and I've got to say that some of those same wallet on using all those contracts out of all of those contracts, you only get maybe a hundred thousand maybe even if at the most 300,000 unique wallets being using that. If that was a website, no one would care. You get what I'm saying? Like websites, they have a higher, like if 300,000 people are going to a website, they're like, okay, it's 300,000 people. And all on the flip side of that, if you look at Binance Martin, their number one contract is doing five times as much as the number one contract on Ethereum. And so what I'm starting to see is what my, here's my theory. My theory is this is that when something is a utility, then the price of that thing would have to start going towards zero for people to continue to still use it as a utility. So something like Ethereum, as the price keeps going up and it becomes expensive to use it, not even from a fee structure, but just from the price of having to go get Ethereum to use the contract, people will find other ethereum's to use. And that's what we're already seeing in migration from Ethereum over to a more centralized Binance Martin, which is also very weird to me because what's happening is, is people are showing us they don't care about centralization when it comes to utility tokens, which means that people are really looking at these systems as almost being oracle all over again. It's just like a new type of database. So if you're willing to trust these systems, as long as they keep the cost flow, but you to use it and you can make more money on top of it, you'll go to whatever blockchain works the best and is the cheapest. And that's why I'm saying when people say there's all these uses for Ethereum, you can actually go look at own chain data and actual, actual information that is being used to hit these contracts and you'll realize that it is very, very, very, very slim. And I think the idea is the notion of it and the idea and the promise of it is far bigger than the actual reality of Ethereum at this point. And I think that's something that needs to be saved. That's part of our new censorship-friendly blockchain technology. Go ahead, Josh. Yeah, look, I agree. I think it's very, very early days for this technology. And the thing is that Binance will of course, they're renowned for just pumping their own books, for fake orders and just, they want to make financial chain to chain because they own all these coins and they just fake it till they make it. And so for me, Ethereum was the first smart contract platform that came out and they're working on decentralizing it more and more. They're trying to, there are some core problems with Ethereum. I'm not there to stand up for Ethereum and say, no, they're the best. Then we've talked about it many times on the show. I'm a storage Bitcoin it from way back. The problem is, I don't want to use a centralized system to build my idea on Binance smart chain because why not just put it on Valtora then? Why not just put it on a database? No, so I'm going to use Ethereum because at least they're trying to be decentralized. They're still problems. For instance, just aggregating the data is pretty much like two nodes that aggregate all the data because there's just so much throughput of this stuff that it's definitely not decentralized and it could be hijacked or controlled. It's a process and I feel nothing's perfect at the time and right now we can't say, oh, look, there's only 300,000 so it's a website wouldn't get much value. Bitcoin had a lot of value in my mind when there was, you could just buy our pack of socks with it. For me, it's more future forward thinking, I want to stay away from like near all these weird smart contract where they're Ethereum killers because four years later, Ethereum still working. It's got a massive amount of developers that are interested in the space. Of course, Binance in their way basically is stealing all of that by saying, we do, we code the same thing so you can just write some, let your contracts over and then we'll pump that by putting fake transactions through all day long and make it look like we're more popular. But if you look at anything on the Binance smart chain, it's just the shit coins of shit coin. The worst rug pool nonsense that you can never find is there. Basically, it's a casino. It's a casino of crap rather than serious projects that are trying to do interesting economic theory on a decentralized system which is trying, you know, when I say decentralized with these air quotes, what I'm saying is that it's a process and I hope that Ethereum will will decentralize further, you know, because people can say decentralized to Bitcoin as well because decentralized isn't on or off. It's a scale and so we're always hoping that we'll go further into a more decentralized system. Now what you said about utility, I think, absolutely true. You do want to go towards cheaper and cheaper and I think it's also right and this is all a big experiment. Do the normies give a shit about decentralization? Well, I can tell you they don't for sure, but they will once there's a huge takeover of 51% attack or a government destruction of the centralized system because that was the whole point of decentralization is you cannot stop this. You cannot stop this if you don't like it. So once someone doesn't like the Binance Smart Chain stuff and take some down, maybe they can't. Maybe it's decentralized enough. I don't know, you know, but it's definitely an interesting space and I just find it fascinating and that's one thing that I really love is that we can test our economic theory without gulags and that's for me the big win. Yeah, I think you're right. I think the thing about utility is right, but I also think that because no one cares about decentralization, stuff like NFTs will find their way to places like float. Like the biggest NFT platform was NBA top shots. They did over $570 million worth of NFTs over the last what year or so was it this year, I guess. So they, whatever they since they've been up. So my whole thing is it's like, I mean, if you look at that and you see how much money went through there, then clearly the people who are buying these NFTs, they don't care. And guess what? The artists are the platform. Get your money. Like go get your money. A lot of this other stuff that people are trying to build, I just always tell them be very careful because Ethereum and all of these other platforms, they because you haven't seen them completely scale. We saw what even happened with crypto kitties as popular as that got. We saw what happened with that and it's not like Ethereum changed much since then. So what happens when you on board somebody like like Banksy, what if Banksy puts out a auction on Ethereum? Like will it be able to handle the amount of traffic that Banksy is right in this is going to kill it in at that point what happens right? So anybody out there developing just understand from a technical standpoint, Ethereum is not ready. None of these smart contract platforms are really ready. And what I'm starting to realize it might not be ready. I think we will start to find that the whole idea of a world computer it it making work. But right now if you're trying to build something it might even be better for you to just build it in the cloud, build the application and utilize sound money like Bitcoin like real top. Yeah but I see what you're saying but you could have the similar discussion to say that you know when we all got into Bitcoin it was about Bank the Unbanked. Well at at at 25 bucks a pop the Unbanked ain't touching Bitcoin for a while. I disagree there because we had like this week we had a Bitcoin meetup in the Netherlands in Amsterdam. I delayed my flight back to Portugal because we had the meetup and we used in a very short time we just bought a lot of chicken wings and bears and drinks on Lightning Network and all of them on Lightning and none of them failed. It really scaled. We paid like practically zero fees. So if you have a channel or you get a pre funded Lightning channel it does scale. It really. Yeah but there are Lightning there are layer two solutions for a theorem two so you could quite easily say well you know it scales on layer two on a theorem. These things these things are available they copy each other you know these technologies don't just stick on one chain and it's the thing is with Lightning or any of these layer two solutions that I see is a big problem is that the network effect for layer two isn't there it takes a while to grow and Lightning Network is growing phenomenally at the moment. So it's really great to see and that's because of the great work of people at Ben Ark and and and and thousands of different developers you know he just comes to mind because he's fantastic and he's always on the show but but the the the network of layer two definitely needs time to grow so I think it's a little bit disingenuous to say oh well you know the theorem doesn't grow but Bitcoin does because of Lightning well there is a layer two on a theorem too it's just takes time to nobody is using that people aren't using the Lightning Network and nobody is using the Ethereum layer two for which we don't even recognize the name right now so it's a polygon. I agree with Lamar he just used a lot of words to tell that Ethereum is a shit going and it doesn't scale and he has a pointer and I know you will not agree but Lamar I think I agree I have to agree with you here because it doesn't scale. I also want to agree with Lamar on the decentralization issue it really does seem with the proof of stake feature that Ethereum is trying to put in that if you had an early pre-mine with Ethereum developers and holders and they had lots of Ethereum and then you made an adjustment already to the way that Ethereum is produced to benefit the early pre-mine now you're going to make a proof of stake system where again proof of stake the people with the stake get the rewards so it's a built-in centralization thing and I think like Joshua saying they've just forgotten the benefits of censorship resistance they've forgotten why someone might want to block their transactions a lot of us remember you can't you can't donate to WikiLeaks you can't donate to this you can't support the causes or the people that you want to support and that will happen again but it'll happen on Ethereum. Yeah I mean I definitely has problems you know that I've been known as a Bitcoin Maximus forever I can't believe I'm sitting here standing up for a theory it's just I can't build what I want to build on Bitcoin so I have to choose the next best thing and that's this the thing is Ethereum you know as many issues as it has it's an experiment just like Bitcoin it's it's not perfect proof of work is an experiment proof proof sorry proof of stake you know they're all experiments proof of work is more built out I believe it's better proof of stake will definitely have issues I mean you can already see where these big exchanges who who have massive amounts of this stuff can start to centralize on those nodes so not only do they have the power to move the price they have the power to start telling you what's in the blocks they also have minor extractable value issues where they can they can front run decentralized exchanges because they have you know so much staking power and they maybe they're like three blocks ahead so they can then reall the last three but you know I mean there's there's lots of really really interesting issues I'm not saying they're all being solved it's just a fascinating time as a technologist and as someone that loves Cypherpunk ethos and smart contract ideas and decentralized money just to watch the space and build build a project on there and see see how we go yeah I love to see Josh drawn into Ethereum as I was drawn into the Ethereum four years ago and I wanted to make baseball cards and they're like yeah you can't really do that on Bitcoin yet and I was like well we we need to do it now so we did it moving on to the exit question there are 30 Curio cards designed by seven artists Martine Wishmare which Curio card is your favorite um I'd buy the 20 and the 21 the one where the Thomas Hönz is the secret agent 007 and the one with the mad mad scientist or was it the wizard those are my favorite number 25 I think it's a bit odd it looks like it's look like semen I wouldn't even want to have that on the back of my on my on my phone display but and I do like the animated ones the little animated the blinking eye from the barbarian I think there should be more cards with animations on it because you know use the the medium to its fullest like number 30 is cool too yeah actually they're all nice I do understand I do get collectors value I think this is this is something that um yeah I like like the artworks too like like number 28 and 29 and 27 you know with the with urban urban backdrop I like those two but my favorites are really the 20 and 21 because you know it's the the creator it's like the architect is there you know so yeah those are my favorite the secret signature the Easter egg Josh Shagalla what are your favorites and follow Martin's lead you're at least favorite career yeah I'd say 2021 to him and your commodity tell you um and I agree that the sperm on 25 it's a wacky picture uh no I yeah 2021 you should have heard the artist complaining on the animation he's like I only got two frames I only got three frames and then uh card number 30 comes out and he's like well I'd that guy get so many frames I only got three frames for 23 so it's great to see these little things uh Lamar Wilson what's your favorite and least favorite Curio card my my favorite one has to be number 21 actually I like 20 better than 21 I like 20 better than 21 I like the agent uh yeah and uh I think my least favorite one man 25 is pretty bad scroll up scroll up some more scroll up some more I uh back to the top yeah 25 is pretty bad like I think it might be 25 might be the worst one oh yeah 25 I don't like 25 but yeah 20 is definitely my favorite I would maybe possibly get that when if I was into NFT uh cards like I would possibly bad that one that's one I would buy yeah there are 2000 mad bitcoins cards some of them might have been burnt as well uh there is only 222 of the 25 cards so despite the opinions here on the art it's a very popular and a very valuable piece of sperm so how do you how do you even buy well they're all available on Open C so you can hook up your Meta Mask wallet with your Ethereum or your RAPD Ethereum or whatever you want to do and you can go on Open C uh make an offer you can say I'll pay this for that or you could take one of the cells that are on the board and accept that as a price and it's a market uh like they said on sign-out life prices go up and down you see so add your own. So because cards one of the things about cards is having the mall you know got to get a mall Pokemon style it's because I'm not you know I just don't have time to research everything in life can you can you sell if you if you manage to get all of them and be like yes now I have all of the curia cards does that make it worth more as a package? I believe so and many people who got into it immediately began collecting it as it was intended as a set if you see we put the numbers on all the cards you say oh that's three and that's 17 or it's a set right so a lot of people immediately got the collector's idea a lot of people also collect many sets like they want all the dog coins or they want you know all the cryptography cards so right now OpenC has a bit of a problem OpenC needs to fix itself they arbitrarily decided that you can only sell a set of 20 but everyone knows there are 30 curio cards they need to fix that so that entire set could be sold so we could find out the answer to Josh's question but yes many people are building sets I don't know that an entire set has been sold there's a website on curio cards where you can determine the amount I think it was something between a hundred and 170 Ethereum so around 200 to 360 thousand dollars for a set of curio cards right now the main limiter there is that for some of these cards we started to let the artists choose how many cards we should make so for 24 25 and 26 we did 332 22 and 111 so that 111 card is a major limiter on the availability of sets and a huge block there's also some other cards at 29 here only has 200 there's some very low number cards that are limiting people's ability to make a set but you could all you could always make a set of one through 10 you could make one of these other mini sets and those couldn't be sold on OpenC as packages bundles they call them but yeah it's open to anybody I think people think it's going to go crazy I don't know they're all about this Gary V they think that he's going to be about it and there's a bit of a controversy crypto punks has been claiming that they're the first art NFT on Ethereum and they're clearly not we're in the blockchain we have tweets we have videos even other projects I know and it's on their homepage their marketing guys are like just do it just push it through and then we're over here in reality Travis is telling me he's like yeah I did a presentation with those guys once like I shook their hands like I was on the the day us we were like you know crypto car curio curio cards and crypto punks together so yeah next time hello nice to meet you stop stop and sprinting on my IP stop infringing on my IP but yeah we'll see how it all shakes out I think a lot of people might be kind of upset that they bought the first NFT and then they didn't get the first NFT you know fraud you know illegal advertising all that kind of stuff and then other people are just like I finally found the first NFT and they're very excited or the first art NFT so a lot of technicalities but it's been great thanks to everybody in the curio discard I hope you're out there give us a thumbs up share this video thanks to everybody who's spreading it on Twitter really against all about the community and there's even been ideas I've seen ideas floated like maybe a time square ad for curio cards something like that would be fun maybe we could get a curio race car I don't know the curio convention it's all on the table anybody could do it so thanks so much for discovering my project sorry you guys had to talk about it I know that's like a building that was indulgence there so predictions or story of the week martin are you ready with the prediction or a story of the week yeah I had the story of the week recently on the Twitter sphere I noticed that people were complaining that the bitcoin ATMs like the one pictured in the back the back that they were not supporting lighting but this is incorrect we have seen being supporting the lighting network for years now and you can enable as an ATM operator you can enable lighting if you support bitcoin they all carry bitcoin I mean the many of them also do support altcoins but lighting is just a little configuration tweak if you are an ATM operator or you have clients you know asking you see an ATM that does not support lighting tell the ATM operator to contact general bytes that support at generalbites.com and will gladly help you get your lighting enabled because it's time it works it has been working for years we've been for supporting for years so it's I was really hurt it hurt my feelings when I saw people complaining that lighting was not supported well we've been like really embracing it since day one so that was my story of the week and I wanted to do a shout out to die because this t-shirt survived the washing machine so many times it's not a thick quality as the world crypto network shirts they're better quality but my I'm not stable but my die is t-shirt it's the only one I still fit after the year of lockdown so thank you for the for the t-shirt that's my story of the week sorry I watch out he's not stable Josh Tagalog do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead no but I really love the fact that the lighting works in the ATMs I think the ATMs are basically one of the most important nodes in the network in terms of on and on off ramps for for normal people to just go out there and get some and yeah I funny story I was at I was at Paraparalto down in Prague Paralto I was not going to say it probably but the Institute of Cryptoanarchy let's just say it that way and and yeah we had to catch cab there was a flight and I was like I'll just pay for it with Bitcoin I have to hey and I was showing off to the person who we're with and we're like and and the Bitcoin you have to send it to the ATM and then the ATM sends it on so I had to wait for like double confirmation it took forever and I was like what's going on I can't wait we're gonna go to the flight what the hell do you can you please that and they don't take cash famously you know good on them but it was really tough so I love the fact that finally we can get lighting network there I was pay boom boom boom wonderful bring it on yeah I'm just super super stoked about that that's that's really really great for them how is the new startup going by the way because it's the story of the week thing do you have any new developments you know oh yeah well you've got your I've got the standard we're competing with diet basically what we're doing is allowing people to be able to lock up hard and soft assets in in smart contracts and then be able to generate multiple stablecoins not just USD based so the hope is eventually we will be able to lock you know spit out any stablecoin fiat pegged but back up by gold and and crypto if they want but gold is great because the interest rate will be very low compared the collateralization rate ratio and the great thing is that you know the you don't have to sell your asset so then you you don't get the capital gains tax but also you inflation works for you if you borrowed you've gone long inflation pays off your loan for you so it's just such a great if I understand correctly if like for the you can create a stable coin using the standard that's right so people are from Suriname I'm talking to they want they they are in the gold business gold mining business and they also are in Bitcoin now and they asked me this week if it would be possible to create a coin that's backed by gold issued by gold so this standards offer would be able to do that the thing is like I people have been begging for gold back crypto for so long and I hate the idea it's just dumb because it basically anyone that's doing that is scamming you because if you lose your private keys someone has to pay for that gold in the holding physical things in the real world means you have to pay what's called demirage it's you have to pay for the fat doors the men with guns the auditing the insurance that it goes on and on and if you buy a token that's worth one gram sitting in a vault and then you lose those keys or you don't move those for ages the vault operator has to pay those costs forever and and so it just doesn't work and so what you want to do is what we're doing with the standard is that an Oracle system would look with an API lock into the database lock up those funds in a non-sellable mech so just say no that's not a that's your allocated funds but locks put it up into the smart contract as a unit of account as a tokenized unit of account but the human can never get those because otherwise they'll lose their keys what they can do then is use that collateral to generate a stable coin and and then that stable coin is backed by their hard assets that's provably more assets than the value of the stable coin and and then there's a whole bunch of mechanisms where the Dow will actually vote on interest rates to so if the if the peg start slipping below then you lift the interest rates which means there's demand people want to pay back their loans they go and buy off the secondary markets lifting up so just the central banking mechanism except rather than a group of old white men sitting in a behind a dog and lifting the interest rates you know we have a community of thousands of people doing that the thing is Douse also have a fundamental problem where voter turnout you know voting for me I'm a cryptosianicus I don't like voting so what we're working on is having prediction markets to tell the future prediction markets are you know have a lot of of academic work to say that they are the best way humans have possible to tell the future so I'm really interested to get prediction markets working where we can decide on an interest rate that is the best in the future to peg in the next you know hour what will keep or day or whatever whatever it is we're still working on a that will best peg the interest rate to keep that peg and then when you have to you know pay back your loan after 10 years let's say then you you know the inflated crap fear that you've got it's you know worth way less so it takes way less to pay back the loan and what I hope it does is it really allows people that are living paycheck to paycheck to be able to save in in real hard assets like gold or silver or bitcoin or anything like that crypto and still have liquidity to go and use for food and stuff and you're not trusting a third part a full third party sure there's trust in the smart contract hopefully over time that trust is less and less as the smart contract doesn't get hacked but it allows people to have liquidity but save at the same time and not get hit by capital gains so that's that that's the hope that's the vision you know it's it's a big dream we've got a big team now I've 10 people working on this thing and and yeah you know I'd it's still sort of stealth mode I guess it's not now I've just laid it all out but but yeah I'm so fascinated I learned more about it where can they learn more about the standard yeah if you go to the standard doio that's basically it and you can read up on it there white paper everything very cool I'll have to check it out now for our next guest I've known Lamar a long time since Fiva Wallet with him and Lafe and I just want to recognize the incredible work he's been doing on clubhouse with a black bitcoin billionaires incredible education anyone can join they have all these different meetups they'll answer your questions they'll teach you about bitcoin and the best thing about it when I hang out on clubhouse or twitter spaces and some of the guys are gals from the black bitcoin billionaires coming it's like they're already pre-trained they're like I don't like alt coins I like to save my satoshi's I got a hardware wallet you know I work hard I save my money and someday maybe billionaire so I think this great stuff is as you're doing and I celebrate it all the time it's nice to say it to thank you while you're here and to give you some props but Lamar do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead make sure to unmute yourself yeah I think the story of the week thank you so much for that Thomas man yeah you you always been a real good friend to me I just you you to me signify the old head bitcoin guys and gals that I love so much man we get welcome me in with open arms back in the day when we did have a few wallets so thanks bro but now man the black bitcoin billionaires um the story of the week is we are getting our black bitcoin billionaire lightning network up so we had our first transactions go through one of the black bitcoin billionaires knows took some of the fees so we are what we're doing in the same way I don't know if you've heard of the plebnet a plebnet they have their kind of subnet of the lightning network black bitcoin billionaires is doing the same thing but we're gonna connect with the plebnet so we're gonna have the black bitcoin billionaires lightning network rolling and I love that and also I'm gonna say to you all first black bitcoin billionaires is about to start doing something called demo days we have some very large companies in the space that I've put up some money so that we can start to fund disenfranchised black owned businesses or tech businesses around the cryptocurrency space to start putting some money into those companies because what we found is that many of these investors want to put money into the those communities but they don't have the networks to find those companies and then on the other side the net the the companies that are in those communities don't usually have the networks to get to those bcs right and so we're trying to be that liaison between them and provide that opportunity and you'll hear more about it here soon so yeah black bitcoin billionaires continues to grow continues to do things we're almost at 120,000 members on clubhouse so I'm very very proud of that uh yeah it's that that's the news of the week wait wait to you see this black lightning network the black lightning network it's really cool sounds fantastic and just incredible job with that group one of the best groups on clubhouse and just fantastic crew and like you said tech stuff as well they'll teach you how to set up a lightning node how to use your lightning node just anything at all you just gotta be polite help out the community and also if you want to teach or tell people you know help bitcoin you can go there and volunteer anyone and let me say this you don't have to be a billionaire to join I know the title says black bitcoin billionaire but this and you don't have to be a billionaire even though the title says that because most people say do I have to be black and the black part is not the real criteria the billionaire part is the one that really matters now but seriously you don't have to be black to join we have a very diverse super diverse group um we have mods that aren't black uh of course when time has come through he comes on stage it doesn't matter who you are it says black bitcoin billionaires and it doesn't just mean just black people but it means that black people run it and if you have a problem with that that's not on you that's what I always say I'm kind of matching many people have a problem with that uh what the hell I'm glad you cleared it up about the billionaire thing about non-billionaires being allowed yeah only a billionaire clubs now so it's very very like you know restrictive for someone like me but what I find fascinating is that the word billionaires become so normal and for me that this is a real sign you know just when that song came out I want to be a billionaire so fucking bad and I was like man when a billion suddenly become normal yeah like mainstream it's a crazy big number um yeah I say yeah but uh this is what bitcoin and uh and crypto fixes uh when I was a kid people just wanted to be millionaires and now they say millionaire isn't enough you have to be a 12 millionaire if you just want to live normally and like that seems like a lot of millions just to live normally but um maybe maybe we'll just have to skip that just get a billion just you know right up so yeah think we're we're almost running out of time we gotta give one more plug check out the WCN Clips channel google on uh on google for WCN Clips check it out we've got all the great clips from last week shows should you buy bitcoin now see what we think bitcoin minor moving problems China UK rules in favor of fake Satoshi we've got all the best clips at WCN Clips and you can share them you can subscribe you'd be one of the first 100 subscribers on WCN Clips uh so join us over there check that out thanks to everybody for being on the show uh be sure to go check out those Kerio cards I guess it's been amazing I'll see in the discord it's been lots of fun maybe we'll have another Kerio card hang out check that out here on the world crypto network we've also got a playlist full of interviews I did if you want to learn more about Kerio cards thanks so much everybody for joining us like and subscribe until next time