The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest satosies, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Tonemay's from Liberty Life Trail. Welcome, everyone. It's time. It wants to call me a Told You So vase now, which is great. I love it. Along with, I told you so. We've got Jeffrey Jones from the Bitcoin News Show. Chris Ellis from Protit, Blake Anderson, cryptographic economist. Hey, everybody. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. It's pretty much going to break my screen share. Let's see. Bum bum bum. Drama. What will issue one be? It's a good time to give us a thumbs up in a share. If you're watching at home. Issue one, SEC rejects Winkelvah's Bitcoin ETF, sending the price, tumbling on Friday, government regulators, what the heck is he saying? They rejected the Bitcoin ETF, saying that Bitcoin cannot be regulated. The Winkelvah ETF has been unapproved. Jeffrey Jones, what about the Bitcoin ETF? Well, I guess I have to say I don't think too many people were surprised. I definitely was smoking a little bit of the hopeium, just to see if we could get some kind of percentage in there. But despite the bitmix saying that it was 50%, chance. No, I think everybody, including tone, called it pretty well, saying that this is not going to be a good idea. It's not going to get approved because you can't regulate Bitcoin. You simply can not regulate Bitcoin. You can try and attempt, but it's just not going to be able to be put in a box like that. But despite the ETF not being approved, we are still seeing the prices being pretty sustained. Though we kind of, like Blake says, we probably want to wait, and like Chris says, we probably want to wait for the first 24 hours. But the price is holding pretty well. Despite what articles are talking about with the price tumbling, I don't see anything like that. It's just really exciting times. And I think that the rest of the panelists will back me up when we say that Bitcoin doesn't need an ETF. This is not, like Andreas was tweeting this morning, if you think that Bitcoin needs an ETF approval to continue to explode, to actually change the world, then you're doing it wrong. That's just not the case. So I'll pass it on to the rest of the panelists and see what we think. A 50% chance of stupid Chris Ellis. I was going to let Blake take this call. I'd also like to take this opportunity to say thanks to everyone who fundraised this event. We're all here in San Francisco. This is our 1000th episode. And I'd like to echo the sentiment of Fluffy Pony, who's the manero, League Dev, who when I asked about the significance of the ETF said purple. I asked a great answer. It's the best. Because if you're like, you know, the rest of us like in Bitcoin, you don't like obsess over the price every single day and watch it all, then this kind of stuff just goes over you. Like it's interesting and you see it in the background, you're peripheral vision. But I do think this is a by the dip steam and people are buying it up here, crash down on that 15 minute candle, a couple of periods ago, and then it's just being held up ever since. So I wouldn't be surprised if we only see something like 950 as a bottom and it would be a great opportunity to buy back in. And I don't make predictions very lightly. So, Blake Anderson. Well, I mean, I hope it goes down really, really low so I can buy a whole bunch. Buy the dip. It's not going down enough fast enough for me to be happy with the discount that it'll happen because of this. But I don't know. Some people were thinking that investors are going to flee Bitcoin and never come back. And I think that maybe some will, but most of the time when people come in the invest in Bitcoin and they see the amount of volatility that they can day trade, the amount of money that they can make along horizons, there's not a whole lot of other places to go to get that product and they end up coming back, I would say. So I think that the price dropping down after the announcement and then bouncing up so fast is almost like there's a fight between the legacy systems and Bitcoin. And Bitcoin is like terminator just got hit by a truck and the truck basically didn't do any damage and terminator got back up. And it's proving that Bitcoin is really resilient. So I think that I've been like, I'm going to bet on a fight between these two when you see the terminator get hit by a truck, I'm going to bet on that, Motho. Like, wow, that would have been really bad for anything else, the amount of money. Basically, this is good news for Bitcoin. I don't know if it's totally good news, but I think that there is a long term, you know, anti-fragile or a stability message kind of to read out of it. It's good news long term, I think. Yeah, I can't have a good impact long term. Yeah. The idea is joining us. I'm just going to sell help you. We're joined by Theo Goodman. Theo Goodman, what are your thoughts on the ETF being rejected by the SEC? Oh, I just wanted to say, told you so that we all said no, a few episodes. And of course, now we have to say, told you so a bunch of times. I think for about a year, we have to re-inarrate that we all said no a bunch of times. That would find some kind of reason. Now, I don't know what you've guys already discussed. And I don't think it's the, I think it's someone else's write up. I think the name of the website is something hacker news, something. Sorry, I don't have it right off the tip. It's popular on Twitter. It's a nice breakdown of probable reasons why it was disapproved. And I think that they hit some good points. Some of them we discussed here, anything ranging from, you know, that a lot of the exchanges are not very regulated. A lot of the volume is in China. So it's kind of hard for the SEC to say, hey, we can protect our investors. So it's not that they hate Bitcoin or they're against Bitcoin itself. I mean, it could be like a lot of conspiracy theory. See, the government is against Bitcoin because of peer to peer or whatever. But really, it's just they're like, okay, look, our job is to make sure that we can kind of, but, you know, that we can say that the ETFs are legit and they have certain standard. And it didn't meet the standards by far. And that was not a huge surprise. I was actually surprised how far the Vincolvaya took it so far, you know, and how you fork it. Everything got it. It did get pretty crazy last few weeks. And honestly, I'm really happy that it's just, I hope we don't have to hear about ETF for a while. I'm kind of tired of hearing about it and talking about it. Let's just talk about something else. I don't know whatever other news is going on in the world. Of course, that's the big topic now. There was a, yeah, of course, there was a lot of other news. Next week, we have the rumored Rare Pepe ETF and the Ethereum ETFs. We have plenty more ETFs. Well, actually, I think that's a good thing. That's a big bag of I told you so. Go ahead, Tony. Haha. Well, I'm actually just glad one national nightmare is over for the Bitcoiners. Now we only have to deal with one more, which is the Bitcoin unlimited, which is clearly the much bigger, not even also dealing with. So we don't know what else I can say other than I've said everything I needed to say leading up to the ETF. Like nothing to correct myself on. So this is almost like the perfect I told you so. I have not seen any articles. To, you know, the end result and the reasons why it was eventually rejected and everything is like, what's their look ahead going forward? So I haven't really gotten to those yet. I've kind of just been watching the price. It has been interesting. I'm looking at my charts now. I'm debating if I should pull those up. I guess I should. I can't wait to get a better computer. This is so frustrating. Okay, so let me just do a quick screen share. By the way, to those that are new that may be watching this, I have plenty of reasons as to why the CTF should not have been approved and why I thought it would be terrible for the Bitcoin ecosystem if it actually got approved. Those were two completely independent things. So the ETF, the reasons for the ETF not being approved are fairly straightforward. Bitcoin is a brand new asset only about eight or nine years old. Obviously, the SEC has no control of the underlying and nobody that the SEC trusts have control of the underlying. In addition, the Winco was for trying to do too much. They wanted to control the underlying price with their index. They wanted to be responsible for the ETF storage and they wanted to literally take the fees from the ETF itself by managing the ETF. These three things are usually completely independent of each other, but they were trying to do it all. You were just an obviously Bitcoin is too speculative of an asset. As far as we know, almost everyone that has ever stored large amounts of Bitcoin has been hacked in one way or another, whether internally or externally. These were all of very logical reasons to not allow the ETF. In addition, SEC allowing the ETF, they would automatically be bombarded with ETF of every kind from every altcoin that has ever existed. Now the SEC would become the de facto government agency that decides which altcoins are legit and which aren't, which is not a position the SEC probably wanted to be in. These were all of the most obvious possible reasons not to allow the ETF. That is independent of Bitcoiners wanting the ETF. The only Bitcoiners that have price went up. We were going to make lots of money. Well, of course. The only reason people wanted the ETF is so that they would become rich and people that keep trying to become rich usually end up broke. This is why people play the lottery. This is why people are investing in shitcoins. Your luck is going to run out. Occasionally people do get lucky like Roger Vier, like some of the other people that manage to get into Bitcoin real, real early and actually manage to hold on to it and not sell it all at like $2 because they thought that was the ultimate high or leave it all at mount gocks. Most of that is luck and a little skill mostly luck not only to get in very, very early but also to hold on to it. That's great. I'm happy for them that they became rich. The only people that really wanted the ETF obviously the Winkle Boss twins wanted it so that they can become more rich and more famous and I talked about that. If the Bitcoin twins really cared about the Bitcoin community, they would have been investing Bitcoin for the last years and not the Bitcoin thing. They're doing silently trying to get the ETF thing out. If only they were as good at Bitcoin as they are at rowing. Yes. Other people that really wanted the ETF was basically for the rise in the price and perhaps getting Bitcoin more legitimate. However, you have to realize that if the SEC had approved Bitcoin, it creates a giant honey pot of Bitcoin that starts to take Bitcoin out of circulation, what Barry Silver is currently doing with his and it might alter the Bitcoin price. It creates this honey pot that the government may one day just take for themselves. If the Bitcoin ETF ends up with 20 to 30% of all Bitcoin in 10 years, the US government, if they get into financial trouble, can just come in and take the Bitcoin and completely ruin the Bitcoin economy. This puts a Bitcoin into the right control of the bankers and by bankers, I mean professional traders. Nobody in Bitcoin right now is a professional trader. They're all pretend traders. Real traders trade in billions of dollars. If you put the ETF on the table, they will have full control of bringing it up, crashing it down, bringing it up, crashing it down. All these people, and I don't even believe in them, all these people screaming about gold manipulation with derivatives and how gold would be so, so high if it only wasn't for all these evil derivatives and all these evil bankers. That's going to be the same conspiracy theory. Why would you want the ETF? If your conspiracy is that the person, the gold ETF is what's keeping the price of gold down, wouldn't your logic also go into the ETF? It's the same exact thing. It would be a derivative controlled by those with money and government approval. Now I don't believe in that conspiracy theory. I think that the reason why gold is so high today is because of those derivatives, not that's why it's so low. I think it's the other way around. Even then, the Bitcoin ETF would probably, by my conspiracy theory, having the ETF will increase the price of Bitcoin, but it does nothing for the Bitcoin underlying economy, which shouldn't even want the ETF for the dangers that it can create. That's my views on the ETF. Let me just do a quick screen share in order to display the price situation right now. I'm going to zoom in on this as well so everybody can see real clear. As you're getting there, I wanted to agree that I think your third point is the most important. Bitcoin is not ready for the kind of market manipulation that it would be subject to on the stock market. A long time ago, it says, as Hoshi said, to WikiLeaks, we're not ready for you to take donations. We don't want that spotlight yet. I think this is the same thing where, yes, we want everyone's retirement fund to invest in Bitcoin. But do we want the major traders who are out there looking for a weak asset to play with? Do we want Bitcoin to be their play thing? Right. No, and I agree with that as well. Here's the chart. The moment right after the ETF was announced, by the way, there's a couple of interesting things that went on here and I'll probably talk about it in a minute. Right before the ETF, there were these spikes right here. There was this spike. Oh, wow, yellow was probably a terrible color to use. Let's use purple to make this smaller. There was this spike right here above 1300. This is classic Wall Street. This is the kind of shit you see around the Fed announcements, around the Brexit announcements this is where people with money and people that know what they're doing take out people's stop losses. This is where there were a lot of people short and someone that knows what they're doing and this is why I don't trade Bitcoin, by the way. This is also why I don't trade during certain speculative days. This is classic. This is you take out all of the stop losses of those that were short. You just knock them all out an hour or two before the announcement and then those people now feel like shit because they had the right position on the short but they got stopped out. This is classic. This happens all the time. This is why 90% of traders end up losing all of their money and just get more and more frustrated. That's one thing that happened. Here's the other thing. I snapped this picture as soon as I could and this to me looks like the perfect buying opportunity right here. It's between 915 my Fibonacci support line which has been very critical in the past. You can see this being critical right all through here. Also this is the bottom of my channel that this channel has been around in like forever. This thing for over a year probably going on two years soon. To me this is the perfect buying opportunity. The perfect buy would be at 915. Will we get to 915? I don't know. We're already bounced off of 950. That's a good enough buying opportunity. Those that caught it probably do well. I snapped this screenshot and I tweeted it out within minutes after the announcement. Talking about this right. This is the having all over again. If you look at the having and I know I'm going on a little bit long guys but we did start the show early and I this is good content. So I'm going to talk about price for a little bit. I agree. I agree. I think it's good content. Thanks, Tom. What's the joy of my Gabriel D. Vine Gabriel. Do you want to tell us your thoughts on the ETF maybe Tom will go back to you for a summation. Yeah. You know what Gabriel Gabriel go ahead and then I'll get back to you. Back to the price. Yeah. I can't wait to hear more. I love that chart. You made there an amazing to see all the candles stacking up because it went down up down up down up again today. Yeah. You know, I really, really agree with what you said, Tom, which is the ETF does nothing whatsoever for the Bitcoin ecosystem directly. Some people may argue that it brings new capital to the Bitcoin ecosystem by allowing the, you know, just the higher market cap and that is a value. But the thing is that it's doing it in a centralized way, which is against the ethos of the Bitcoin ecosystem. So in, you know, it's kind of a shortcut to inject a bunch of capital into the ecosystem that we maybe don't have the capacity for. And I think it's actually totally awesome news. I love it. I think it's positive long term news. And we're going to see Bitcoin have the space to grow more organically before some sort of vehicles get created as a layer on top, an external layer on top to allow a lot of capital to slush around on top of it. It's so interesting to see governments trying to deal with this thing. And I'm really glad you brought up WikiLeaks because I was just thinking about it today. And I don't believe that the WikiLeaks is one of the subjects of our show today, but that's huge news this week with Vault 7 Part 1, the CIA leaks. I mean, a lot of people knew about this, but maybe you didn't have the exact details of the exact data on hand to prove it. But we all knew that the CIA was spying. Just didn't quite know that it was as bad as the NSA and totally unsupervised. And it's really important to. Hey, I'm sorry. Hey, Gabriel. Yeah. I'm just a little elaborate on that a little bit. I'm sorry. I've been a third world country. I just got back. I have no idea what the WikiLeaks CIA revelations are. So I'm really, really curious. I'm just a little elaborate on that a little bit more. Absolutely. Imagine an television was spying on you. Go ahead. Yeah. Once again, the name of the WikiLeak, so to speak, was Vault 7 Part 1. It's also known as Vault 7 Year Zero. I'm assuming they're calling it that in a reference to this is kind of a new era or era, as we say on the West Coast. Now that Chris is there, a little less than for you. It's a new era. Now we have the knowledge. I think more of the Snowden leaks were a little bit more of sort of year zero, but it's also sort of a hat tip to the zero day exploit term, which means you find out about the exploit and you have zero days to fix it before it's known and in the wild. So this year's zero dump was a massive trove of over 8,000 documents from the CIA detailing their internal surveillance apparatus, which was highly advanced with a huge infrastructure of probably hundreds or even thousands of individuals being involved with spying all over the world, including on Americans, all of which pretty much was unsanctioned by the government, unknown by Congress. It includes revelations that the CIA actually spied on Congress. So they are supposed to go to the NSA whose official mandate is horrible surveillance, which already shouldn't exist. It's unconstitutional. But regardless, on paper, they're supposed to be able to do it legally, whereas the CIA is supposed to have to rely on them. But they don't, of course, because the CIA is a rogue agency and has been for decades, they don't want to have to rely and give the tip to other agencies that they are looking after, looking up somebody or doing some sort of spying. So they, of course, created their own cyber infrastructure for surveillance and hacking. And yeah, the links have, you know, gender, they go from 2013 to 2016. They've got a lot of zero days. They were unknown in the wild, Andrew DeSantis coming out on Twitter, getting shadow banned for reporting on the EFI vulnerability in Macintosh hardware that was exploited by CIA because his hardware was exploited. There's no known fix to that. Twitter was, of course, shadow banning him on that day before the leaks. And Assange himself called out, not by name, but he mentioned that exploit in the interview yesterday, I believe it was. So, yeah, huge news. It made a very big splash tone. And I just want to call out the fact that while Satoshi did discourage WikiLeaks from accepting Bitcoin at that point in 2010, two things. Bitcoin saved WikiLeaks. They probably would have gone under without it, but instead, because they got such a massive influx of crypto coin at that time, I think they're probably still surviving on a huge trove of thousands of Bitcoin that are now worth millions in keeping them afloat. So Bitcoin indirectly caused WikiLeaks to survive, indirectly caused Assange to continue to be able to do this work and do these releases. And I think it's fair to say that Trump may not have gotten elected without WikiLeaks. So it's, I mean, that's a little bit more of an opinion, but it's an awful and terrible connection that we never want to think about game. But let's cover this again at the end of the show. Let's go for a wrap up of the Bitcoin ETF chart. Go ahead. Okay, so I was still on mute. All right, so the weekly chart, nothing really to see here. We're still doing really, really good. Here's the daily chart. I mean, I took a snapshot almost near the bottom and look, we're already up. We're already back up to like 1100. The news is settling in. I mean, if we close the next 24 hours back above this China high, that would be great news and then the buying opportunity in the 900s will probably be gone forever, pending the Bitcoin unlimited disaster. So what I was going to say was our current event is very, very similar to the having. And this is what I've been talking about for over a month or two now in that buying takes place way before the having because the having is a known event. But at the time the event comes around, the selling has already taken place. Same thing happened here, all the buying took place in this area. There was a early pause because they got it up way earlier than expected. Then there was another shot at it and then it already started to sell off. So that spike I already talked about that spike is by professional traders. Or in Bitcoin that wanted to take out people's stops so that not too many people profit from the short position and only they do. So this was a deliberate attempt to just take hit people's stop losses on their short positions. And now there was a spike in the announcement and honestly, I think the worst is over. I don't it's still possible and we have to give it hours. But most likely the bottom of the channel got hit and now we're going to be working on getting back to the top of the channel. Now here's the breaking coin liquid index and this one will not update till 9 p.m. today. And I think we came down. We dropped below this 50 day moving average and now we're back up. So let's see if we can get back up above this red line. My chart doesn't seem to slide over. Here we go. Let's see if we can get back up. We went all the way down to like here to below the blue. I hope you guys can see my mouse. I can't really draw on this right now. Now we're back at the red. So we're actually right where I expected us to be when I drew this chart in the beginning of the year. We're right around 1150. So hopefully we can get back up there. Here's the interesting one. This is my hourly chart. I've been talking about this for weeks if not a month or two. And honestly this volume spike isn't all that crazy. I mean it's similar to the volume spike that took place to knock out the to knock out the shorts. Also somebody was made there. Let's see this big hour has already ended for now on the following hour. And it looks like things are already starting to stabilize. So let's give it a few more hours and we'll see if we can get back up to this 1150 range and above this low. Low of 1140 that took place yesterday. We should be fine. And I am really not all that worried. And like I said earlier, I think this is a great thing. It keeps Bitcoin decentralized. It keeps it in the hands of the people. And it keeps it where it should be. The way it was meant to be used not in a Wall Street financial product. So I think that's all I really have to say on this. This definitely throws cold water on all these old coin ETFs. And I don't know if people see this as a Bitcoin opportunity. People will be dumping their old coins and getting back into Bitcoin. But Bitcoin unlimited has a lot more to do with that than the ETF. This was just an appetizer. The scaling which we're going to talk about soon is going to be a much bigger determinant of future Bitcoin price. I'm also being told that we have a Judas candle. We're going to go to Chris Ellis for a comment on this, then to Theo, then to the exit question. Yeah, so I just put it up for screen share. So just to bring you guys up to speed with the lingo because I think Theo mentioned it a little bit earlier and Tony as well. So this is called a Judas swing in markets. And it's basically what happens when you want to stop everybody out. So you don't want to create any winners in the market, even those that get it right. So let's say you shorted Bitcoin ahead of time because you knew full well as Theo and it's home, new ahead of time that this ETF wasn't going to get it through. You're still going to get stopped out because the market makers are going to drive the price up. You see here on the daily candle and if I go into a four hour, you see that we reached all time highs just a few sessions ago on the four hour. So Chris, Chris, are you sure your chart is on the big screen for everyone watching because I still see you talking and not your chart. Go to my, go to my, it's on there. Tom, it's on there. It's on there. A few sessions ago on the four hour regional time high. That would have stopped out a lot of people though already sure because they would have set training stops. For example, a leg with has been liquidated if they were on bit next rack. So then it also stopped out all the people at the bottom of that candle at 106.9 on bit for next. And now we've got the actual done candle. But if I go out to like the daily, and I'll just do this really quickly, I'll go to the three day, you can see we're actually kind of touching on support here. So the, the, the, the WIC on this daily candle currently is already going down into the tops of the bodies of the candles when we had had our last kind of WIC down. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is a, you know, an opportunity to start. Now I'd wait for the day to, to, to run its course, wait for the daily close tonight. And then I would look to, to be putting in some beds because I'm sure that Bitcoin community is going to come up with yet another narrative to, to pump the price again. All right. Theo Goodman, did you have another comment on this? I have a, I have a, I have a quick comment I just wanted to show my OG index here. And here we've got, you can see I just wanted to explain the appearance. We've been seeing more and more of these Judas candles in the, in the Bitcoin market. They're often characterized with a big upfoma and then a sudden dumb candle. You look at it could appear as a Darth Maul candle, which is similar to where, this is where your hands would hold the lightsaber, the character Darth Maul and lightsabers. That's why this is called a Darth Maul candle. And that basically clears the books and everyone that was levered short or long is pretty much correct at that point. If it's a small, if it's a small market like Bitcoin, people, most people were just out then due to swing, the Darth Maul and all that are definitely in. So the markets are already manipulated. It's are manipulated. That's just what humans do. They, they, they, they destroy each other. I actually, I actually was not aware that that was the name of the candle, the Darth Maul candle. Well, it's just a condom. No, no, it's just like that. That's, I think I just was looking for it as we were talking. I can't find actually Barry Silbert, this, Silbert did do a tweet about Bitcoin trader terminology. I mean, we just already had some, we didn't realize it because we're used to it. Like Chris said, dump candle and you know Judas candle, Darth Maul, you know, where there's all these little terms that are not, that are not even, they're even their new terms. So just so you guys are really good new term that's in style. You've got to get with it. They're no longer shit coins. Boateek. 2017 is shit coin. It's a Boateek. Yeah, well, the, the, the, the crypto space has brought the world so many new terms. I'm going to do it for that because Darth Maul candles are going to wreck your market and we're going to move on to the next question. Oh, wait, thank everyone for the thumbs up and for sharing this episode. We have 340 viewers, some kind of new records. Oh, shit. So thank you to everyone for the interest and the shares. And before you go on to the next issue or some of you, the price of Bitcoin next week. Jeffrey Jones. Price of Bitcoin next week. It's going to be up. That's my prediction. Chris Ellis. Up and down. Blake Anderson is going to be volatile. Theo Goodman. You can unmute yourself. You can do it. Theo. Right. I probably couldn't hear you. Gabriel Devon. I'm going to go with Theo's answer from like two weeks ago, $888. Tones. I'm going to go with higher. I do have to comment on one more thing because there was a good question in the comments in from the live viewers. And the question was, how come no one knew when the actual SEC was going to make the announcement? I was informed that it was going to be Monday. Now, honestly, I was informed by someone that said, I have spoken to a high official and it's definitely going to be approved. And I just laughed at that person. But hey, here's the reason why no one really, really knew when exactly like I had no idea. I honestly thought it was going to be Monday. The reason why none of us really knew when this thing was going to be announced is because we all live in this bubble where we think Bitcoin is important and the SEC lives in the real world where there was absolutely no important investor that needed to be notified. When was when this decision was going to have to be made? Okay. So you have people have to keep that in mind that this is totally irrelevant in the eyes of the global market and in the eyes of the US market. This is only important to like the 300 people that are watching us live and maybe triple that as far as people that that really, really need to know when the SEC is going to talk about this. It's completely irrelevant from the global scale. And Friday is historically known as Take Out the Trash News Day. A couple of comments in the chat, they want to know where to buy Bitcoin. You can buy Bitcoin at coinbase.com or at localbitcoins.com. Well, you can just understand it. And there's lots of other options, but you can start quickly and work for it. Now we're going to move on to issue two. Issue two, user activated soft fork. The Bitcoin community is a buzz this week with the possibility of activating segregated witness via UASF. A user activated soft fork. Users could signal for SegWit just by running a Bitcoin node, which would also help confirm transactions and decentralize the Bitcoin network. Chris Ellis is this new idea of breakthrough for segregated witness and for full nodes? Will the UASF allow Bitcoin to finally solve the scaling issue? No. It was so am I on? So I've got a little screen share. And it's from back when I was first doing the full node stuff. You pull my screen share up on the smoother one. Somebody on the Bitcoin Wiki did a really good job of clearing up misconceptions about full nodes. And I completely, 100% agree with this. It was never the motivation of the full node project to pretend like it was anything more than what they've laid out here in this amazing article. And I'll just give you the TLDR. We put the only node that matters is the one you use. Right? End quote. That's great. We can come back. And so the point I'm trying to make here is that the point of running a full node is that you know that your private keys are safe. You know that all the rules on the blockchain are being validated by your node. And it runs locally first. That's the most important thing. It's secondarily about supporting the network. That's fine. If that's a personal decision for you and you want to run some extra nodes in order to distribute the Bitcoin network across the world geospatially, if you want to protect it against DDoS, that's fine. But that's a personal decision for you. That's not an altruistic dependency that Bitcoin has a protocol needs. It doesn't require your altruism in order to work. Now this idea of user-activated software is my interpretation of it because I don't want to get into the mud with all this political mud slaying on Twitter and social media, frankly, is just a political move. It was designed to put the so-called big blockers and the RBTC group as if they're one from watching a group of people into a position where they now have to respond by saying, oh wait, now we've kind of got this alternative and now we have to like reconstruct our narrative. My personal view having read this proposal is that it would be pretty dangerous because the moment Bitcoin isn't designed to be a voting mechanism, people can spin up a thousand nodes on AWS and you can simple attack the system. So it's not one CPU, one vote, it's not even one person one vote. And it really just comes down to the entry level requirement would be user competency. So what you might end up with is just a very messy situation where we end up with two forks and then the protocol stipulates there's a hundred block time limit where two chains can co-exist and if they don't rejoin, if one of the blocks doesn't get orphaned and all the transactions on that chain don't get orphaned, then we will have a permanent split and you'll end up with like a theory and a theorem, plastic. So it's very important that we take a measured and controlled decision about this. I actually quite like what Charlie Lear has been saying recently, he's been going off on some rants and I actually approved some of what he said, like we really do need to just calm down and Eric Clomb-Broso as well. And I'm not into this whole mud slinging and name calling and attacking personality rather than looking at the underlying, don't attack the tone of the message, go for the underlying arguments and the premises when you examine this and educate yourself. I guess the bottom line the thing I want to leave you with is the education is decentralization. It's very important to Bitcoin that people know how to take responsibility for that shit. They have private keys, they encrypt them because they know how to and they don't outsource it to the winkle bosses and they don't outsource it to Roger Ver or anybody else for that matter and they learn how to look after their own stuff. That's why it's important. Blake Anderson, your thoughts on full nodes? On full nodes or user activated software? Both. Well yeah, full nodes in node running and proliferation is extremely important to the network and the health thereof relative to the chain and scaling and all that stuff and the user activated software. I mean, I think it's good to be able to signal support for something. I do think that the amount of support that alternative options have is wildly overblown and I think that a lot of people that are talking about the other options are bringing attention to things that don't necessarily need to be discussed in as much detail as they are. I think that, you know, stop worrying about what they're doing and worry about what you're doing. Continue on with the best course as far as the risk management procedures that you set forth, stick to your own roadmap and then maybe try not to constantly respond to people saying that, you know, your solution is categorically inferior when it's just not true when it's in controvertibly opposite. And I think that that's a lot of what's happening. Theo Goodman. No, it's our good. Why not? I don't really have an opinion on this user activated fork thing yet. It does sound we definitely agree with. Who's more important than nodes are the miners? Who's more important? What? I don't think it's as by an area is that all I know is that I'm interacting with real life situations where people vitally need transactions confirmed on a daily basis. And isn't a day that goes by where I have someone ask me why is my rare Pepe card stuck in the blockchain? We have so much backup and it's unbelievable and I'm not joking. It's an ongoing topic. Oh, use the via BDC accelerator. Oh, no, I can't use it. My fee is so low that I can't even use that. It won't be accepted. Okay, well then you have to go to your wallet and raise the minimum fee. I don't know how do I do that. So people are really learning also how to use their different wallets from getting rare Pepe cards stuck in the blockchain. And maybe some of the congestion is in fact due to the infamous trading card hair Pepe, which got some hair stuck into the chains. Not a day goes by where I don't lament the incredible educational value of rare Pepe. Shiller, shiller, Gabriel, D Vaughan. You are lamenting the value. Tell us, I don't understand. Why would you lament this? It's a wonderful thing. I just love hearing about it all the time. Collectibles on the blockchain. Why not? Hey, you know, it's commodities. They become collectibles. That's how it is. You know, the UASF, I've been seeing some interesting stuff to indicate. That the pay to script hash was kind of activated in a similar way. Do you guys know anything about that? Chris is texting. But yeah, I heard pay to script hash was actually activated through node upgrades already. So we've kind of got a history of doing upgrade, as they say, in idiocracy. In this fashion. I think the triple Ds for double dose of pimping. That's right. That's right. UP, G-R-A, Y-Y-Y, triple D. Yeah, you know, I think that it's probably a more distributed model to use than heaping all the responsibility on hash rate. I'm really not sure why the core team decided to do it that way in the first place and not have some sort of node activated method anyways. I thought it was actually really strange that they chose 95% that they went for hash rate. I'm not sure what they thought would happen there. But on the other thing, I think this has been a great thing. As I've said repeatedly, I think all of the drama is wonderful. I think all of the ad hominem are terrific. I'm not being sarcastic by saying that. Chris is going to give me a face palm. But I genuinely think that this issue and the divisiveness has brought so many interesting issues to the fore that have woken so many people up to the importance of politics in deciding these things into the vulnerabilities that the ecosystem suffers under, that the social vulnerabilities and the weak points where bad actors can come up with an entire political movement in order to undermine the base philosophy of an ecosystem. I think a lot of people were naive about that. Now that we've gotten some interesting CIA docs talking about how they, for decades, have infiltrated organizations in order to create this type of drama, this type of schisms in organizations. I think it's great. And I look forward to more drama, more problems that we all have to overcome together because every time we go through these issues and survive, Bitcoin is stronger. And Bitcoin, the truth, the people with the stronger argument, the more evidence for their case, have been coming out on top over and over and over. Unlike in a democracy, we have a very different situation and a lot of people are waking up to that reality. And that's one of the reasons in my opinion, Bitcoin has been experienced a surge, but the lindy effect and all of these political attempts at undermining that are failing. And I think it's wonderful. And I think it's great for us to have experienced possibly the failure of one activation method and it's forced the community to look for alternatives. And I think maybe USUSF is just the next step in that process. It's great. I think we're all learning, we're all getting better, we're all getting smarter. And this is all really good stuff. Chris? Yeah. Chris has some good adhams he came up with. Yeah, I got some good, not really Scott's, but I have an audience ready for you. No, you made some good points. I think it's important that Bitcoin is able to resist some of these attack vectors, like the blood-scaled attack vectors, the social engineering, working those back channels, calling up exchanges, asking them, how would you feel about this hard fork on the back channel, maybe subverting and coercing uses into upgrading without even realizing it, because so many people leave their coins on exchanges. And we've seen that from the hacks that empty got to Bitcoin, a couple of pyloniacs, a bit for next most recently. We see that people tend to leave their coins on these exchanges. They're not your coins. They are hypothesated and token substrates as Blake says. And therefore, people are not taking responsibility for that shit. So I agree with you that Bitcoin does need to be tested, but I don't encourage you, you, the viewer at home, to necessarily engage in these kinds of tactics, like be a witness to it, but don't allow yourself to be fern into the market with all the rest of you. Yeah, I totally agree. That's kind of one of my points why I keep harping on it. Like, hey, it's a good thing. Don't worry about it. Just laugh at it and enjoy it. And chime in if you really want to, but realize that most of what you're going to say is going into an empty void. All right. Tony Vase, did you have a comment on user authenticated softworks? Yeah, was this the article you showed in the beginning of the story, Thomas, or we still have Bitcoin unlimited on the schedule? That's the last story we're going to that one next. Oh, we're going to this one next. Okay. Oh, man, because they're kind of, because this story actually said something very interesting and I'll just read it out loud because this is going to go to only audio. So they're talking about a flag day where a user, if a user activated softwork is going to be a reality, right? So it says, assuming the entire network is mining with one client, non-upcreated miners are accepted by non-upcreated nodes. Upcreated miners are accepted by upgraded nodes and non-upcreated nodes. The nodes get rejected by non-upcreated miners. This was actually a very good statement. Most people will need to read this three or four times, but to me, this is very, very clear that the nodes... Not upgraded nodes reject non-upcreated miners. They're not rejected by. Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's what I meant. Upcreated nodes reject non-upcreated miners. Sorry, I was thinking far ahead. You're right. And if you read this, those that read this a few times, to me, this is fairly clear that nodes are in control and not the miners. And I think nodes will ultimately decide the future of Bitcoin. So I am actually a big fan of a user activated softwork, but once again, you want this to be at least a 90% compliance on the user side, which may sound ridiculous and impossible. And perhaps that's exactly what the core developers assumed when they were deciding who should be given priority on the switch to segwit. Nodes and users versus miners. And of course, miners are also users, right? Miners are running a full node. And they decided to go with the miners because it was a smaller pool of people that needed to comply for that 90% threshold. Now that all this controversy has stirred up, people have become much more aware. And I had actually, me myself, without knowing what the hell a user activated softwork was. I didn't even know the acronym even existed. I was already on my blogs and videos trying to convince people that they need to run a full node to signal to the community what their interests are as far as scaling Bitcoin goals. So I was pushing for a user activated softwork without even knowing what the hell a user activated softwork was. To me, this was just a logical conclusion. And therefore, I have to be a fan of a user activated softwork. So at the end of the day, I think this turned out to be a great thing because I have not ran a full node for years. I used to run a full node like back in 2013 and probably 14. But ever since I got, you know, Microsoft Surface 3, I just wasn't able to do it. Now that I'm whole not the surface three. No, no. It's terrible, man. It's terrible. I need an upgrade. So I can't wait to upgrade my computer so I can actually run a full node. People are even offering to send me Raspberry Pi so I can run a full node. I need to take them up a new offer, but taking them up a new offer, you know, exposes my, at least my real address for people, which I kind of try to avoid. So I mean, anonymity and identity is hard to maintain. But I think a lot of people are about to wake up and a lot of people are about to run a full node. Now, I agree with Chris when he says that the priority of a full node is to, is for security of your own transactions. However, I really like the idea of full nodes dictating where the direction of Bitcoin goes. And if people want to run a full node and signal for Bitcoin unlimited, they're going to find out real quickly that they're running outdated software by over a year. OK. And that's going to be, that's going to be an interesting situation. So it doesn't matter that, oh, we're going to talk about AMP full next. So I guess I'll save it. So that's kind of my view on things. Of course, I don't want this user activated software to kick in at like 55%. If we're breaking 85 or 90% compliance, I would feel fairly safe to force segwit in there. If 90, if close to 90% of nodes are running segwit compatible code. So if you are running a full node and you bought this full node from some middle man, please go and double check what software that full node is running. You should really be in control of what software is being run by the full node. And that node, I'm done with this. And I can't wait to talk about unlimited. All right. I think we're going to go to Chris for a comment on a civil attack. So user activated should be replaced with civil activated and civil attack. So 90%, we say 90%, 90% of what? A thousand AWS instances being run by one company or one agency that has, yes, it's HG to all of those service running. So I don't, you know, I think this was an ad absurdum argument that was deliberately placed in a kind of platonic rhetorical fashion by who a anonymous person who probably works for Bitcoin core, just in order to elicit this kind of controversy and debate, just in order to force the opponent to re-evaluate that position and put them on to the back. But I don't think it's a serious suggestion and I don't recommend that this be the reason in your primary motivation for running a full node. You run the full node for all the reasons I mentioned about two hours ago when I was last speaking. Okay. Can we? Can we wait? Wait, wait, wait, wait. I got to push back on, I got to push back on Chris. Hold on. Unless somebody wants to say something. Yeah. Well, you run a node so that you can confirm your own transactions so that they're added to the blockchain. It's quite simple. It's not that crazy of an idea. In fact, if anybody out there is part of a mining pool, even a small one, that I'm not joking, I'm totally, all their rare Pepe talk is serious talk. We're looking for a possible mining pool that we can partner with to help us because there's so many people would do all these transactions. So we need them to like accelerate the counterparty transactions onto the chain with us. And, you know, of course, now I've got some high power, you know, miners. I've got a few block eruptors. I've got an ant miner, you too. So I'm not really heavy enough to do it myself, but maybe there's someone out there that does have a mining pool. And then that would help. And as we've stated, if you mine, you're running a full node. Pool is a node or whatever, but anyway, those are full nodes. They count as full nodes. So that's what they're doing now even. So I don't know, I mean, I remember the old school made. It was kind of a joke, but it made, I think it made sense for not the node was a joke. But the idea was that you put the little USB miner in with it and then it's like a 21 machine. Yeah, but that's the kind of show that that's the idea is that you're processing the transactions. I mean, and if you see that little USB stick in there that's a miner, I think it kind of gets the brain flowing. Oh, yeah, I'm doing something. You know, the node is doing something kind of when you see that, I think that kind of connects people with it. But I don't know, I mean, but yeah, I don't see how right now you have already the simple battle right now. You have all these statistics. Hey, look how many XT nodes are there. Hey, look how many core nodes are there. Hey, look how many classic nodes are there. Hey, look how many updated core nodes have appeared in the last three hours or look how many or let's do the Google insight chart on top of the node count. I don't know, I mean, you can, there's so many ways you can go and it's going nuts right now with it. And even people are getting it's people are getting a little bit more clever. So I've seen a chart of the compared to the classic nodes compared to the unlimited nodes and it appears that people are getting a little bit more clever and spacing it out to make it look organic TM. But there were some really unorganic spikes, you know, there were, I mean, but it's like the XT one is really it's like it's like a Judas candle. It's like, and then the classic one is like it looks really unnatural. Now the unlimited one looks more natural and you know given with all of them, there are organic ones, I'm not saying that it's 100% you know, come on. Do use your brain a little bit. I think that you already have that. So I'm not sure what would change the thing with this user activated fork is just the idea that. Gabe or somebody asked me who's in charge the, the miners or the nodes and you know if you have this not how I don't think that that's the kind of discussion that's going to lead anywhere positive. Now the other now in the chat someone said. The UFC should be the one that has a fight to decide it and I thought well that's a funny idea what you could do is whenever you have these Twitter battles and you have a flag day. And if you haven't won the argument after a certain day, then you have to meet at the next. If the decide before now after the flag days over there's no more Twitter arguments, okay, and then after that you decide you're going to meet at the next Bitcoin conference and you're going to have like a oil fight or something and everyone buys tickets and that goes to charity. And then but but the idea is then you've got you had your argument it's done now whoever wins the you know the wrestling match or whatever at the end and there you know it's a gentleman's agreement and then you're not going to. At Hanuman tax after that you know so then we can have like there's the there's the fighting time and then you know you have chill out time and then after that there's a resolution you know it's not like ongoing forever. Wait here's some I would never I would never ask that question it was Thomas my money's on Bitcoin choking out a theory I'm in the third round let's go to Jeffrey Jones for a comment and then let's move on go ahead. Yeah you know the panelists you're really outlined it really well so there's not a whole lot that I want to add but except for just re-emphasize what a node is used for. That is to confirm your own transactions that is so you can be secure that is so that you don't need to rely on coin base so you don't need to rely on any of these third party companies this is an important part of the Bitcoin movement in general is to be able to secure your own funds and so I just wanted to really emphasize that as well as you know this user activated software it's just it's going to be push and pull you know the Bitcoin limited pushed and then pushed with this and it's just going back and forth and like Theo said that's really not going to be any it's not going to be any it's we're not going to bear any fruit by trying to decide who's in charge of Bitcoin because we all know that nobody's in charge of Bitcoin right no single person is in charge of Bitcoin except Thomas and you don't want to piss Thomas off so I think my point is that we don't we don't want to put too much attention to these to these crazy things that like that are just popping up all the time like Bitcoin unlimited user activated software keep your head down on your code and keep your head down on your work because I know that Bitcoin core is kicking ass and I know that their newest version is amazing 0.1.0.14.0 it sinks to the blockchain like like there's no tomorrow absolutely blazing and there's so much positive comments about it on Reddit and you know around the actual Twitter sphere just people loving it so keep your heads you know keep your heads down and keep coding and just I just don't think that Bitcoin limit is going to really going to do much so what would you agree that in the age of information that time in the scarce resource and attention is a scarce resource and people need to put that to good use instead of just allowing anything to flow into their head. Absolutely absolutely I think that's definitely true. I can't wait until we have Bitcoin crystal clear and then new Bitcoin. All right let me let me just show the charts real quick but yeah so I tweeted the sound a few days ago or like a day ago or something where I showed and you're right there was a lot of bullshit and the blue is the Bitcoin XT nodes that got just spooled up and the purple is the Bitcoin classic nodes that got spooled up and there's Bitcoin unlimited I mean it's going up but it's not even close to where the other two were and I don't know what it looks like today and the point when he said it's like all AWS and I don't have really have the technical expertise on on you know how to even spool these up because that's just not something I do but what I can say is I'm pretty sure in today's world of technology we should be able to tell which nodes are relevant because they're accepting Bitcoin transactions and which Bitcoin nodes are just there as fake. Now I could be wrong on this I am outside my area of expertise can we not tell which nodes are being paying with Bitcoin transactions or not. AWS nodes would just run like a normal node and they would be as easy as running as duplicate duplicate duplicate we can reprogram Bitcoin to support it. But yeah you could just run them up so you know let's move on to the exit question how many versions of Bitcoin will be running this time next month Jeffrey Jones let me think about that for a second at least four Chris Ellis yeah I'd go with that at least for Blake Anderson I concur with the panel have no unique thoughts. Theo Goodman absolutely. Okay repeat the question. Repeat the question how many versions of Bitcoin will there be next month. Five Gabriel D. Vine what does Chris smell like you guys. That's not an answer tone days. Well we already have five right so I'm going to have to go with six there will probably be another one don't come up with one more I mean on the screen that I just showed previously we have four plus some idiots are running eight megabyte code so that's already five so I'm figuring we're going to have six. But anyway just one more comment on this I really liked what Peter thought had to say when I saw him in Toronto he's like in the way you should be happy that we're fighting Bitcoin unlimited because if it wasn't for Bitcoin unlimited Bitcoin core might actually have to compete with like a competent alternative so sooner or later a second is going to win. There can be only one version of Bitcoin as there is only one blockchain one Bitcoin that's it moving on to issue four issue four and pool begins mining Bitcoin unlimited and pool one of the largest Bitcoin mining pools in the world with more than 14% of the markets has begun mining Bitcoin unlimited Bitcoin unlimited the alternative for now has more than 30% of the hash power. So I think we're on the Bitcoin market deal goodman I ask you is this it is Bitcoin unlimited making the ultimate move will Bitcoin unlimited defeat segregated witness. I don't think it's a I don't I don't like the question I deferred you're not asking the right question host so the okay you don't defeat the other one this is like a really battle to the death. Between the two. One little bit point out unlimited turn my camera back to white color okay it says sound really dramatic I'll give you that so that's it was a good choice as a host to make it real dramatic like that I would say. They're not going to do it this is not it and I think I. I wrote them it's put up or shut up time you know fork it then I dare you let's find those 13 bitcoins Gabriel Devon. I'm looking at the article here and I am not really that well informed on the subject I haven't had time we started early today I was planning to read this one so I'm going to defer my place. I'm going to tone days. Oh man I'm like pulling up a website on this to see the latest numbers surface has websites one amazing device yeah by the way I is it like is it an official drinking game now every time I say the word surface you have to think like a full shot. I'm so happy. Okay let me do a screen share again. Where are we here are we've got dead air we're looking at my cards that looks like trivial pursuit I win this game a lot I like trivial pursuit. Okay so here's the thing so we got what we got about this four of you there plus the so the six there's seven of us right plus almost 400 people in live chat does anyone know anybody that's actually mining on and pool I'm just curious if there is any normal person mining on and pool because I don't trust China I don't trust anything coming out of China right to me is and pool really a pool. Is it a pool really a pool or is it simply bit main pretending to be a pool can someone answer that question for me I've never been a minor so I'm really really curious is what is your question is aunt pool is that the question I think that that's pretty clear. I miss you my question is is aunt pool actually a pool open to anyone or is this like bit main with their own chips pretending to be a pool can someone answer that I don't know I don't know what the current state is I know that at some point it was open to more than one person but I don't know if you can you mean if you can actually mine there so slush is the only. So called or I guess the main pool it's old school setup where a lot of different miners are really mining as you would think a lot of up I think the majority of the other ones are close and that would include aunt pool but someone can pull it up really quickly over at the WC and headquarters right now and see if they can. So it's made the pool so small it's the size for ants no one's going to learn how to read good I think I think you're I think I think you're right and it's just it's just a bit main basically mining there yeah right so other ones are like that too I think that then yeah one more one more comments left. One more question look I I know we do the show and I don't have time to know everything it's almost impossible I'm just able to process information fairly quickly once I know the information now is aunt pool is obviously controlled by what's his name G.H.R.W. Is he also in control of app to pool or is that completely different. We don't as far as I know it is different now there are a lot of conspiracies going on that there's least you know hash hash rates from this or the other pool maybe Blake are WC in a mining expert would care to chime in. As far as I know aunt pool is run by bit main and it's run for their stuff but it's not like they're going to have lots of stuff that makes it so that if you point hardware towards their stuff they're not going to be able to mine there so I think it's kind of both. That's a weird answer which I don't understand but okay. Alright so here's my view on this right like this is why the only minor I care about is bit fury because they seem to be the only one that's somewhat honest up to this point so I have I personally don't like aunt pool I don't like bit main because they had they just finally started mining full blocks so up until yesterday I kept saying well blocks are in full blocks were full and cool would be mining full blocks also via BTC. It wouldn't be mining empty blocks right like to me this is ridiculous you can't have an argument that blocks are full where miners aren't mining empty blocks it's very ironic that the miners that are not mining full blocks are the same miners that are screaming we need bigger blocks am I the only one that is like smelling the bullshit here so. So there's a couple of ways this can you you can think of this stuff i should turn the screen share of what's kind of relevant though. You're not you're not the only one you're not the only one who thinks that's super fishy and obviously like a total red flag. Yeah it's it's I call bullshit on anything out of China i've been calling their volumes bullshit i've been calling everything out of China. Everything out of China complete bullshit okay so so here's my view on it right. Jehan Wu and Paul have to pull via BTC they have. A reason they have two reasons for why i mean they don't give a they don't give a fuck about actually processing people's transactions they they couldn't care less okay bit fury does but these guys couldn't care less all the care about is the mining reward. Roger I mean BTC dot com doesn't care about mining reward that's why they kind of gave it away they're in it for the principle but. F to pull and pull they via BTC all the care about is about the mining reward so. So i'm if we go to a bigger block to megabytes that doesn't mean anything as far as these miners are concerned about clearing more transactions what it would mean is that it becomes harder for people to run a note because. There will be bigger blocks there will be blocks over one megabyte. They will be harder to get up through the firewall of China it will be harder to get harder to get into the firewall of China mining can become greatly centralized and because and pull enough to pull control a large chunk of the network they would actually be able to. To dominate mining but they don't care they just want a bigger Bitcoin transactions there probably already working together and they kind of split up into two just so that it doesn't look bad aesthetically on the chart of which polls and miners are dominating so the only way to stop this is by running your off your own full node that is seg with compatible so even if. The miners these Chinese miners have like 50% in support of Bitcoin unlimited but 75% of the full nodes and yes i'm bringing this back to the full nodes but 75% of the full nodes are segregated witness compliant that means that if they try to fork the network the blocks that they find will be rejected by the users and then it becomes. It becomes all about the money and when it becomes all about the money they are going to have to switch to seg with this is why these stories to me are very very linked and why running a full node is way more seg with compatible full node is way more important than just security of your own transactions now how does Roger via fit into this well he happens to run a business that depends on micro payments and buying coffee at Starbucks which is actually. Unfortunately because I don't see that as a Bitcoin use case so if anyone wants to start a conspiracy theory it's that the Chinese miners are using Roger via as they are like. Now if you want to buy a mouthpiece or as like Roger a viewer is being tricked by these miners that they actually want to megabyte blocks to help them with this business and I think they're basically just using him again this is a little too conspiratorial even for my taste but if you start putting the pieces together this is what it looks like and. I'm not sure what else I can add to this I think I kind of stated my point that reject them on a full node that is seg with compatible and I will never accept a greater than a one megabyte block until you know seg with a seg with blocks are full unless the system is 100% seg with compliant and now we're full and now we need a bigger block because lightning network is already or lightning isn't handling things and then the. The core devs will be happy to comply with raising the block size in the safest possible way and then I'll be on board but I do plan to run a full node and if I am the minority 10% of the network so be it I would love to start mining again that would be or not again for the first time actually I would love to start mining on a minority chain that is seg with compatible but I I'm not lucky enough for that. I'd like to start my own conspiracy theory that Bitcoin is awesome let's go to Jeffrey Jones for his thoughts on Bitcoin unlimited so you know it's it's really kind of funny to me that Bitcoin unlimited is is is trying to think that because they have and pull the have the entire entire system I mean we have these Bitcoin unlimited people kind of coming out of the woodwork these days trying to tell us that all the stats point to core being rejected that all the stats point to people disagreeing with core and to me this this is absolutely insane there is no single freaking stat out there that points that shows that people are more agreeing with Bitcoin limited core so let me get that out of the way first of all because people need to understand that there's a whole lot of fun and I swear I've had it Twitter battles a couple times this week about people trying to tell me that all the stats point to people rejecting core you know Bruce Brendan excuse me and so I think that we really need to look at these actual numbers and and and really decide what's happening here now and pull. I did tweet out a tweet that said and pull lost a bit of their mining share but unfortunately that that was actually a little bit longer time period than I thought it was was over a couple months but still and pull is losing hash rate after this announcement and you can this is again one of those stats that you can just go look up for yourself and take a look and see and not have to listen to the fun but yeah this is just another play from Roger you know trying to try to get his way and I really see this like everybody else I think on the panelists including tone and everybody I think they just all see this as another distraction. I'm not saying from Roger that just won't even come close to work because you know at this point it's like fork already we freaking double dare you. Well no how so you can slice a cake anyway you want and I think people are obsessing over these metrics and there's a reason why these these charts look so beautified and that put on this lovely scoy scoy website it's because somebody wants you to know that information and if they want you to know that information it's because they want you to form a belief that is convenient to their end. So I would always view with skepticism any of these charts and figures that people want to point to because they end up becoming social objects you know things that we can point to and share and you just have to be very skeptical whenever you view these these statistics because they're just usually engineered in order to affect the way you form beliefs in your mind. It's like it's looking belly when they're boss guy has that big chart that he keeps referencing and playing to you. Yeah, he just made this up he's like no no no he keeps referencing it to people are for you. You accepted it a part of the conversation. Yeah, it's especially your attention you said it earlier we all have the same number of hours in the day we are all constrained by time and if you can force people to look at your statistics your pie charts then you actually control that narrative is called framing perspective. He can't would you look at it. We just look at it. Don't look to other people to form your beliefs don't look to me or anyone else to form your own beliefs stop trying to convince other people to believe what you believe just just please be critical of the things that you you observe on social media. All right, let's move on to the exit question who will win Bitcoin unlimited or segregated witness we're going to feel goodman for the result. Ladies and gentlemen rare pipé will win a surprise surprise winner Gabriel divine I'm going to go with Twinkies unlimited Twinkies unlimited a good pick tone vase. Well, I'm going to go with seg what but there was a third choice which is status quo and I'm okay with status quo no matter how high fees get the more things change the more they stay the same it's got a Jeffrey Jones. Sorry, what was the new will win Bitcoin unlimited or segregated witness the endless drama the endless drama here's who's going to win Bitcoin that's who's going to win Chris Alex is second side of this full strike calls me bullshit war. Twinkies going to win cupcakes. Don's yeah, I think that the segregated witness will win because it's a categorically superior solution it fixes problems in terms of separating it as signatures. I think a Bitcoin unlimited or maybe Bitcoin to megabyte it might have a better chance of winning but Bitcoin unlimited just it's not. And really at this point it's it's just technically proven by the community the community is one after another one Bitcoin unlimited member of red it after another is coming to the light and seeing that this is a technically superior solution segregated witness is a technically superior solution this is how the smartest people in the world think Bitcoin should go. The answer is segregated witness that's move on to our stories of the week or prediction deal goodman are you ready. And I ready story of the week are those cupcakes damn you got the hostess cupcakes now I would suggest you head over to the nearest supermarket and go to the section and get little Debbie I believe I don't know if they're called nutty buddies or what are they called they're like it's like a peanut bar. It's like peanut butter chocolate wafer now you got to try those those are good and those are going to give you more protein or sugar ratio. Then these cupcakes but those cupcakes are pretty legendary with the cream filling that's the key element to them is the is definitely not as good as we did things away better I don't like those cupcakes once. The episode is brought to you by hostess as well as confidential transactions that's the cream filling that makes the cupcake great I didn't know there was a difference between the cupcakes in the ding gongs I thought those cupcakes were called ding gongs until yesterday that's how far on a touch I am with reality no knowledge of the hostess that's the debatable divine get blink out of there what you're not qualified for this conversation. Oh no come on buddy come on so my story of the week is only my prediction is the S it because 2016 and 2017 have been so crazy so many upsets Brexit Trump everything we got so many more to come here all through Europe it's crazy I because everything's been so crazy I said it on on Twitter. I think the SEC is going to approve the eight the ETF that's my prediction excellent prediction tone base. Well I don't really have anything other than you know just want to have a little moment of silence and RIP for I Jake the melt who I was just speaking to just like a few weeks ago he's a big corner he's spoken at a lot of conferences and literally just today I found out from a chat group that he passed away which just seems crazy to me he was working for Brian Kelly and I mean I didn't approve of all the projects they were working on including Nautilus going but I mean I was just speaking at a conference with Jake about a month ago so that kind of just caught me by surprise so just I guess RIP and a moment of silence for one or more fellow Bitcoiners. So great reminder tone and they had a small drink to him last night at the drink up those who knew him to remember him he was a very young man I believe he's around 35 or 36 so it is a very sudden and unfortunate passing and it's always sad to lose a bit corner so. Same age as well same age or story of the week. Well I guess I'm going to do both since they're both really quick I guess the the my prediction is that this price is going to hold it's not going to go into the 900s very long and that we're just going to see you know new all time highs again in Q3 at the at the latest of this year and that you know I'm still looking for around 2000 by the end of the year and then as far as story of the week just wanted to thank everybody for coming to the the drink up last night of the San Francisco Bitcoin meetup I've never. Been so my first time there and so I had we had a couple fans of WCN and my show come up and that was really great to talk to everybody so that was just an awesome time and I just want to thank everybody for coming out. Also joined by Chris Ellis who is internet famous as confirmed last night at the meetup people knew who he was they came one one guy actually turned up to see me really grateful for one so good I've got a screen share up right now so just switch over to me that so this is us we're all here in San Francisco that is thanks to you at home for. So I'm so nice thing like a bit coins worth and we're really grateful to whoever it was in the Monero community here in the last minute okay just like point three bit coins worth of Monero I have no idea of verifying who that was because of all the insane anonymity that's going to fund your ability that's going on that chain I tried looking up like the public address and I got into an awful lot of trouble the block exploratory we think how much is public here and you're trying to find out how much did you get to see naughty so. I'm very grateful for this money that you sent us this is obviously supports all the work that we've been doing over the years and I hopefully have been trying to make a start contributing back to that by giving you this kind of you know these life kind of tweets the journeys that I made this is what I had immigrant gap immigrant gap you know there I am on the train at the height of the Sierra mountain raging California and this is what you know. I went through to be with you know you guys here and it was a very you know enjoyable experience I highly recommend if you want to see America take the train I got the train from Chicago it's called a saffo California's a for train and yeah okay it was very cramped there's lots of things that were kind of like you know how to get used to there's no wifi. Don't mind to the past. No wifi but it was an incredible way of seeing the country of us go through the Rocky Mountains Denver Colorado went through Utah and then Nevada and then eventually the mountain range which I found out was named after OS 10 operating systems they know like you're semicy and Al Capitan and you know they they named them all after I was incredible Apple has had such an impact on the street. I am amazing but there was you know a bit of a tidbit information you can go back to my screen share again for making interesting I did have to get went across this town called Cisco okay and Cisco basically is not named after the Cisco routine network who knew. Shark yeah shark so it turns out so this is signal peak right here and this is from shot from the town of community of Cisco which is you know pretty much I'm populated now not very many people that live there anymore but yeah Cisco the town gets its name. From some like Mexican derivative of the Cisco roots get their name from the Cisco at the end of San Francisco which is where Cisco based and that's why you should really spell it with a lowercase see it beginning so there's your there's your fun facts. So thank you very much for bringing me on this crypto quest and I've taken all your suggestions on your feedback on board about what I can do to to to help repay. Repay you for that and I've got some suggestions that I'm going to be working on in the coming weeks so hopefully we're making that up right now. And also just one final thing you know I just want to thank Thomas again for having me out here this is the first time meeting the whole WCN crew so this was really a great experience for me meeting Chris and Blake and Thomas everybody live so in real life and yeah just an awesome time and just thanks so much guys for watching. All right Blake Anderson with a story of the week. Story of the week I mean I think it's the drink up last night it was really fun actually having people coming around and say like I like your work and buying you drinks and stuff like that is not something that I'm used to so it was like really really cool maybe feel really happy and special thanks everybody that came. Thank you definitely to the people that actually went out of their ways have buying me a talk to me and to buy me a drink that's just you know really really made my week. And you know we all had a summer moment for Jake last night when somebody you know passes away before the age of 40 especially in this space I mean everybody has the good qualities and bad qualities and people that contribute to this space are so valuable and when they are taken so young it's just very very very very very very very very like it's a horrifying to extrapolate the amount of things that could have been so I just want to say you know another another moment of silence for Jake. And all of you big honest be safe be well out there take care of yourself fucking eat healthy like don't smoke too much like honestly I'm not even just fucking around take care of yourself these people I mean we are a group of people that are important to the future and now that sounds extremely cheesy but I really believe it to be true. All right I just wanted to thank everyone who donated to bring Chris and Blake out here we had a little fundraiser last week we didn't announce that we didn't make a big deal about it but through $10 or $50 even a few hundred dollar donations we got to our goal and it's because of you sometimes we don't have the money to travel around to make this possible but when you donate you make this possible so you help make this show possible we're going to try to do some other interviews we're having a great time here in San Francisco at a great time at the big coin drink up like everyone said last night and if you don't have a meetup near you it's time to start one and if you have a meetup near you it's time to start going they're fun you can make big corners and hang out chat about things that you think are important but apologies to everyone on the ETF today it's too bad bad news maybe the market's going to go down maybe it's going to come back. Yeah that goes by the day. By the time and we can't hear tone because we have a microphone on but we'll talk to him again soon and until next time. Bye bye.