Though Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Gabriel D. Vine from Future Rant. Hey everyone, thanks for having me. Tony Vays from Liberty, Life Trail. Hi everyone, coming to you live from sunny Acapoco. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Satoshi Patins? Craig Wright, the Australian academic who previously claimed to be Satoshi Nakamoto, the inventor of Bitcoin, is back in the news this week. This time he's teamed up with the Canadian entrepreneur with ties to the online gambling industry and is seeking more than 400 patents on Bitcoin and blockchain technology. Previously, Wright promised more proof, but did not provide it after seemingly fooling Gavin Endresson with a rigged test that only worked once. Gabriel D. Vine is Craig Wright, the creator of Bitcoin, and is the first thing that Satoshi would do patent everything in a self-proclaimed land grab and attempt to dominate an entire industry? I, in general, am going to boycott this subject for this episode. I'm against covering anything about this person. So I'm boycotting the subject. I will remind the listeners and viewer audience that I have specifically outlined my theory that Gavin Endresson was coerced by the CIA to do their bidding against Bitcoin. And he realized, he likes Bitcoin, and he realized that the only way that he could get out of the situation was by ruining his own reputation and ruining his own credibility. And he's done that in many ways, but for example, obviously supporting software that's terrible for Bitcoin like XT unlimited classic. And so this getting fooled thing, I think that was a big fake out to try to destroy his last shred of credibility. And I think it worked. So yeah, this guy is just a faker who cares about him. I don't care about him. I'd just like to remind everyone to give us a thumbs up and a share and to thank the 60 live viewers for watching us live. And if Gabriel won't address it, I will. It Craig Wright is coming after these patents and you hate to see someone coming after the patents and then claiming it to be the creator. That's doubly bad. It's like he doesn't want his own invention to succeed. That doesn't seem very much like the creator. Tony Vays, your thoughts on Craig Wright. All right, guys, I just adjusted my camera. Hopefully it'll pick up less of the sun. I adjusted it down. Oh, man, let's so, so. I might have fifth on a. Future and Gabriel dancer. I don't want to do it on this answer now. I'm not as conspiratorial. I don't think that I mean Gavin did go and speak to the CIA, but I don't know what happened there. The average sure is held doing a great job trying to destroy Bitcoin. And we'll get to that in the in the next story I think or at some point this. But on this note. Look, I'm going to recent got high thinking that he's so do she. And can you guys see me okay or should I cut the video feed? I think we're having trouble hearing you. I'll check the chat to. Check the chat. I don't want to cut the video feed. But show the login on from here. What hey, it would suck to have to cut the video. The chat asks how many pin your colladas you'd have. I think it's probably skipping pretty badly. Say again. All right, try it again now. What about Craig right? All right, was it bad before with the video? Yeah, it was. They're all describing how it's bad. They say it's like DJ jazzy Jeff is chopping and screwing with tones feed. Oh, man, that sucks. Anyway, Mexican Internet's what we get. But you sound good now. We can hear you. I'll turn. I'll turn when I want to not speaking. All right. So I was with yeah. I was thinking Craig right, Satoshi. And then Gavin had like me convinced that Craig right Satoshi. That really, really saw that that's ruined my credibility for like a week. Anyway, I'm so pissed about that. So I don't think he's Satoshi and I can't believe this nonsense constantly keeps coming up. I don't even know why Gavin and Dresan is relevant anymore. It's so like frustrating. People still give Gavin and Dresan all this credit. Look, he's a developer. He was the top developer of Bitcoin at a time when no one wanted to develop Bitcoin. He was the best man for the job. It doesn't mean he's great. It just means he's the best man for the job. If me, you Thomas or you Gabriel, if we ended up unlike some in the middle of in some African village that has never even seen our electricity, we would probably be the best doctor that village has ever seen. It does not mean we are the best doctor in the world. Okay. It just means we're the best doctor for them. So at the time when Gavin was in charge of Bitcoin for a little while, he was the best developer of Bitcoin. Probably we have a scene. He's still relevant. Really, really bothers me. And he anyway, we'll get to him again later on. I just hope this Craig Wright thing would eventually go away. As much as I hate the IRS authority, he's life would be out of there. Actually got him that they after he came out to be Satochi. I agree. We're all tired of the Craig Wright story, but you know how the media is. Satochi has access to all those coins. So they have to know. And now the legal claim of the patents. He's making claims all the times we have to assume he has some kind of early papers. Something that's convincing people that he has some kind of claim. If he wants to, if he wants to prove he's a thoshe just move the goddamn coins. We have to the theory that I'm on here is that he's the fraydo of the Satochi bunch. He was always the weakest link. He was always following Johnny around poor fraydo. And now fraydo is trying to prove that he's the boss and he doesn't have the keys. He can't sign the things. He doesn't know the real technical decisions, but he has this outside level of knowledge enough to be fraydo. And so he's going to try to claim the patents and get the kingdom. And if Johnny doesn't stop him, if nobody stops him, what do you got? So Roger Vier might disagree, but I have a feeling that if Greg right is Satochi, he should have enough money to pay the transaction fee to move that money fairly quickly. If he moved any of the Satochi money, he'd clearly be either Satochi or on the team. People in the chatter discussing if software is open source, can he take it back? Not exactly. There's other versions of the software they could make. I think that the way these patents are looking are more of a general thing on the blockchain space. So like Litecoin would be using Bitcoins technology. And under this new paradigm, Craig writes Bitcoin company or whatever could sue Litecoin. They could sue AOL coin. Whoever the next big coin is that has the deep pockets. That they go after. That's what patents are about, right? I can't ask you something. If he decides to sue Litecoin, who the hell is he suing? Charlie Lee that has a job at CoinDesk? Who is he going to sue? Obviously, that's a start. But I think what you're looking for is the next branded Litecoin. Maybe something like a later topic. We're talking about the Brock Pierce ICO. Maybe he goes to Brock Pierce and he says, hey, I own a patent on all of these ideas that you are using to underlie your new technology. And you're going to pay me a license fee. And this is classic patent trolling. We have this on the internet. Things like podcasting, playing episodes in order. Somebody has a patent on that and they're trying to enforce it by suing podcasters who play their episodes in order. It seems really simple. But if you think about Bitcoin, you think about blockchain adding transactions to a blockchain. If he has any kind of early art that could prove a court that he invented this or that he was there or I don't know how much he has to prove, but he must have something. You know, I don't know how much longer this whole paradigm of intellectual court on quote-unquote properties even get a last. I mean, it's totally ridiculous on its face, on a philosophical level, in my opinion. And it's extremely expensive on a legislative level, not legislative, on a judicial level. And it's also extremely expensive on an enforcement level. It's only used to enforce really messed up stuff. I mean, it's just so totally ridiculous. It's a paradigm that was pushed through by the entertainment industry and it's being applied to so many different things. I think it's total BS. I think ideas are abundant. And that's part of what they're doing here is that it's only expensive after the fact. What they want is they want that explosion of new ideas. And then afterwards they sue seven of the nine ideas out of existence. That explosion is the capitalism. That's what they want. Right. But right. And but the thing is that you're not going to encourage innovation with any of this legislation. In fact, it only just puts a cap on it creates blocks and it creates unfair things like monopolies. I don't believe monopolies are a natural result of the of the markets. I think they're created by legislation. So, you know, this is just yet another sign that this guy is just a troll. So can we move on topics now? We could try to move on the patent troll topic just to round out people are talking about open source in the chat. Open source is kind of like publishing you publish your code under a license. And once the code is published, it's kind of stuck with that license. Depending on the license that you choose and you have to go into more detail here. The Berkeley license, the BSD different licenses depends on whether or not commercial products can use that code. A lot of the code has to stay open. And that's the beauty of open sources that stays open. Many hands work on it, et cetera, et cetera. But there's lots more we could talk about on that subject. But let's move on exit question. Despite what we may believe, will the patents be approved Gabriel divine? Yes or no? I don't care boycott subject tone vase. I will be approved government doesn't even know what Bitcoin is like that. SEC has been waiting for two years to make it out of it. There's no way the patent office is going to know what the hell Bitcoin is. They're going to they're going to delay that decision for a long, long time, just like the. All right, kind of your audio is exploding through with your video. I'm going to say yes, there are many courts that are not the US court. One of them will approve it. Will they be bribed? Will they be taking on Bitcoin as an official currency as part of the deal? I don't know, but there are many courts. If they have any kind of like convincing documents, which I must assume they have to continue this claim. Someone will approve it. We will fight this fight again. Moving on. Oh, try to re answer my question. We heard most of it. Okay, good. Let's see. Everyone says you're at the beach. I'm obla. All right, moving on to issue two issue two Bitcoin price surges the price of Bitcoin rose above the price of gold for the first time ever. There are many explanations for the fledgling crypto currencies new valuation, including increased demand from China. The possibility of a Bitcoin ETF and continued supply problems following Bitcoin's recent haven't. The Bitcoin ETF decision is on March 11th. A mere eight days from now. Will this upward mobility continue? I ask you tone phase. Yes, I think it will. I think basically the way speculative trading works in general is you don't buy after the event. When the event happens, it's too late. You got to get in earlier than everybody else. And everyone started getting in like two weeks ago. That's why we already had the pump. We had one pump that was probably good enough to get us to where they wanted the price to be, like around 12,000, 13,000. The like going into the ETF, but the pump happened like way too early happened last week. So then they took their profits and then they realized holy shit, we got so much more time. We can pump it one more time. So people are now speculating again, there's actually betting places that have a 50-50 of Bitcoin approval. That is ridiculous. I give them a five, maybe 10% chance that the ETF is going to be approved. I give them like a 45% chance that it's going to be not approved. And I give them like a 55% chance that it's going to, that they're going to just delay it again. So I'm going to go 5% for approval, 40% for a no, and 55% for we need more time to think. And I like how people are constantly tweeting at me, tone your Nidia, they can't delay it again. They have to make a decision. When the hell does government ever have to do anything? Anything. The Supreme Court can delay a decision for years, they won't get to any other cases, but no one forces them to say anything on any day. They can just say, well, you want to have a decision or you want to give you the right decision, right? It's not like a sporting event where eventually the referees have to decide on a call. This is government. They don't have to listen to you. So yeah, so my view is it will be pumped one more time. We're looking at somewhere between 1300 and 1400. A day or two before the ETF announcement. Potentially as high as 1500. And then the selling is going to begin 24 or 48 hours before the 11th. We will be doing this episode one more time on the 10th, I believe, right? In seven days. So we'll get to see it. I think that the price is going to pump. It's going to drop going into the decision. And then no matter what the decision is, it's probably going to drop some more. Even if the ETF is approved, if we're so high up, there needs to be a pullback. But the ETF is not going to be approved. I will be on the show in two weeks and I will eat it. I will eat it if it gets approved. That sucker is not getting approved. And I don't know what else I can say. So I'm expecting the price to drop from a high into the announcement, drops up more after the announcement. And then the reality is going to set in and then we go back to new highs. Pump it baby one more time. Yup. So defensive selling. Gabriel, Devon, your thoughts on the brand new Bitcoin price. Well, it's interesting that Tony brought up the SEC decision on the 11th. Or I believe perhaps on the 14th Monday, not sure or 13th. But in any case, I actually, the 11th is a Saturday. It is pretty odd. I don't know that we're going to get news on a Saturday. I think 13th. So I actually set up a little poll in Twitter. It's still open. You can all vote. So go to my Twitter at Gabriel Devon and check out my timeline. Scroll down to after the SEC decision on the Bitcoin ETF on 311. The Bitcoin price will. Now, once again, this could be the 13th. But I put four options. None of them is tones, which is drop then drop. So drop beforehand then drop. Well, I guess this is my poll is for after the decision. So the four options are drop, short squeeze, drop then squeeze, and squeeze then drop. Currently drop then short squeeze is in the lead with 34%. Followed by drop at 31%, short squeeze at 28%. And hardly anybody thinks squeeze then drop at 7%. So most people are thinking drop then squeeze. I actually personally think that to be the case too. In other words, a drop right after the decision, no matter which way, and then kind of a bunch of buying wrecking some, some shorters with a big short squeeze within 24 hours. But you know, this is of course a very vague poll because the timing could be three seconds. Could be three days, could be a day. Who knows when this stuff is going to happen just like tones predictions? You know, he's saying XYZ is going to happen. Does he mean an hour beforehand? Does he mean, you know, 0.1% drop? And then, you know, anyways. So it's hard to say what's going to happen in the future of course. But I will say this. I'm not necessarily in agreement with Edward, whom for whom I have a lot of respect, really smart guy, love his videos, Renegade Investor UK, great tweets, excellent videos on YouTube. I really love the guy, very intelligent. I'm not really so sure. I think he's, he definitely feels that the psychological barrier of gold ounce parity is going to cause us influx of money due to a media surge. And maybe he's right, but you know, I'm definitely always, you know, pulling everybody back to the reality of the situation, which is the Bitcoin unit and an ounce of gold have no relation to each other. So the milestone is meaningless on a basic factual level. So yeah, that's not an option. I assume the kind of media that people who are into gold read. Right. Which is how big is that anyway. Mostly not. Yeah, and but I think that the all time high, of course, is extremely, extremely important. We've worked through the all time highs of anybody who is the very, very stupidest people who bought gocks right before the crowd. You know, all those people who actually got a hold of their Bitcoin are now in the black if they didn't do a lot of trades for losses in between. The answer was you had to buy and hold. It was by and hold. Yeah, even the 800ers, the 1000ers, even like people that bought at 1100 are seeing a little bit of profit now. So as long as you held, let's move on to the exit question. Even though tone's already answered it, but let's just give me a straight up. Two numbers. What are the odds that the ETF will be approved tone vase? I give it a five percent five percent. Five percent Gabriel Devon. Well, I've been saying 50, 50 for a while just because they've given zero indication in either direction. It's so new. It's so completely, you know, it's so hard to say. However, not only tone, but also Vinny Lingham, who's made some very, very accurate calls. And a couple of other people on Twitter have been expressing their doubt about the approval. And I would say that my opinion about whether it will get approved or not has dropped from 50, 50. Just randomly, you know, my gut feeling. I'm going to give it 20 percent. The answer is zero. There is zero percent chance that they approve an ETF where the Wincovi hold the coin, name the price of the coin, and run the ETF. There's too many Wincovi in these buckets. It's not about Bitcoin. It's about the structure. Moving on. That makes sense. That makes sense. I know. Moving on to issue three. Issue three. Gavin Andrews and some voices support for Bitcoin Unlimited. In a tweak this week, the former Bitcoin core developer and Bitcoin Foundation member described Bitcoin Unlimited as a viable practical solution to destructive transaction congestion. This comes on the heels of a bug in Bitcoin Unlimited, causing a BU node to lose 13.2 Bitcoin. Value to $12,000 at the time. Is Andrews in right? Is Segwit a little too late, providing only a small bump to two megabytes that Andrews and claims will be eaten up by the time the code reaches the wallets? Gabriel, divine. Is it time to switch to Bitcoin Unlimited? Well, I'm tempted to pull a Theo here and just be really sarcastic and pretend like I'm a big, big coin Unlimited support. But I'm not going to do that. I'm going to be honest. Segwit is extremely well tested. It's some of the most well tested. In fact, it's definitely the most well tested BIP ever a Bitcoin improvement protocol or a proposal rather. Ever to come up for usage. Maybe the idea to allow the miners to signal their support with hash rate for activate. For activation might not have been the best choice. And now the community is exploring other options, which I think is great. The pools are rather centralized, so you've got some big players that are controlling huge swaths of the hash rate. Even though individual miners that are in the pools may or may not want to signal either way, it's really the pool operators. So by giving the signaling power to the mining hash rate, you're really giving it to pool operators of whom there are very few. So I think Segwit is by far the best option in the short term. But I would like to say, and I think Bitcoin unlimited current in its current form is obviously not even close to ready. I mean, it's like really, really far from something that's usable that would not result in an accidental hard fork. And God knows what other bugs and problems. But I would like to say that unlike Bitcoin, XC and Classic, which were just hack jobs, just basically power grabs full of completely ridiculous things like black lists and my Kern and Gavin were just really so egregious as to almost be trolling us. Unlike those proposals, I do believe that some of the philosophy going into Bitcoin unlimited will be of use to the Bitcoin software project moving forward over the coming years. I think that we're going to have to come up with some sort of dynamic automated solution to Bitcoin block size. And that may be something along the lines of a dynamic block size that's chosen individually by the block creators, something that is maybe some long descendant of a Bitcoin unlimited similar idea, or maybe something so different like segregated witness where kind of like, oh, this whole idea of signatures, let's just twist it on its head and do something totally unexpected by moving them out of the data into a difference. Place, you know, some really much more radical change to the protocol in order to allow some sort of flexibility into the into the block size. So I think that unlike XC and Classic, some of the philosophy behind Bitcoin unlimited will survive forward some of the ideas will inform the next few generations of ideas in order to come up with a way of scale on chain transactions in a way that maintains decentralization. So I think Bitcoin unlimited is dead in the water as a software proposal for now, but I look forward to seeing how we can come up with innovative solutions for on chain scaling in the future that are far better tested and better thought through and have more time. And you know, Andrew since a troll, he's burnt all his credibility, not really sure why anybody listens to anything he says at all. Maybe it's his sunglasses he wore in 2012 and that picture, that's the only thing I can think of. There's something about a man in goggles, people just trust a man in goggles. Tones your thoughts on Bitcoin unlimited. Can I can I give this an attempt because if I'm going to start a rant, it's better than I'm on video. How is it? How's my sound? Your sound is good. Your videos are black screens. So it's working. Wait, my video is not working? Nope, videos out. So that's probably a sign that you've only got bandwidth for audio anyways. It's on signal. It's on signal. God damn it. All right. So okay, rant starts in three, two, one. Okay, here we go. I have been dealing with this whole segwood versus Bitcoin unlimited disaster. This entire trip, this is, I've been here like six days. This is my first half day of relaxing. And now I'm back to being aggravated over Bitcoin unlimited versus segwood. Gabe, I disagree with you 100%. Anyone that has been supporting the fracturing of the Bitcoin network into two coins, to Bitcoin unlimited will not be taken seriously in any way, shape of form for as long as they live. Hey, what it comes to Bitcoin development. Whoa, whoa, I never said anything about hard forks. And I never said anything about activating Bitcoin unlimited. Just some of the ideas behind it. I think we're in the order for their ideas. That's all I said. Here are their ideas. Their ideas is to split Bitcoin in two because it worked so well for Ethereum. And no, I am not being sarcastic. That is actually what they say. And that is actually what they think. Look how great Ethereum is. The regular Ethereum is now back to $20. And the new Ethereum is now about to have its own trust from very silver. Okay, so they see this as a good thing. This is a fact. This is not like I'm not making this up. That's exactly what Jake Smith said. That's exactly what Roger Vera said. Okay. So I don't understand why they don't want to fork Bitcoin literally like every day so that they have two to the 365th power bitcoins to choose from by the end of the year. Okay. So that's these guys. Now do they have the mining power to fork Bitcoin if they had it. Maybe they wouldn't. They think they do. Now here's the other thing. You know how Gabriel when you said, well, maybe will be dynamic blocks. No, there won't be dynamic blocks because guess what? The biggest miners F2 pool, maybe not F2 pool, but Ant miner for them. Sure. Or Ant pool. They have in mind a full block probably ever. They don't mind full blocks now. Bitfury and other pools. Make sure they mine. Every block is like 990 something kilobyte. It's literally as close to one megabyte as possible. Every Ant buying every ant pool block is like 800 something. They got like crazy room in that block and they don't want to put in more transactions. Then you have via BTC mining empty blocks. These are the people that are screaming. We need a two megabyte block because the transaction log is backed up. Meanwhile, they never even block the full block. So I completely agree with you that these miners are totally foolish shit. And this whole debate is actually I personally I think it's a attack on Bitcoin. This whole unlimited is completely an attack. And I completely agree with you about these miners. I'm just talking about maybe someday we'll come up with some really groovy solution. Peter will for example, some really smart guys get together. Gals come up with some cool ideas a couple three years. So now maybe some interesting stuff we start testing it for a few years. That type of thing. I'm not talking about anything. But it's in the part of the problem if we move scaling to the lightning network. Then we don't have the problem on Bitcoin anymore. It's a problem of the lightning network. That's not true. You still need to initiate payment channels with a transaction on chain in general. So I mean, you can't a hypothesis. I personally think that's much more limited than the idea of using Bitcoin to buy coffee where you're making these transactions five to ten a day. Of course, but if we as Tadstriger pointed out in the original Bitcoin lightning presentation, if we got everybody in the world on Bitcoin and on lightning, we would need like 80 or 450 gigabyte blocks. So it's lightning wouldn't be enough. Let's not work backwards. Let's work forwards. Let's move up slowly. I agree with that. And I agree with everything that Tone said about all the miners and everything except for his characterization of what I said. All right. Continue the rant. All right. Yeah. My bad on that then gave you. I'm not even close to done by the way. Can I do this video? Is this better? It's good so far. We'll let you know. Let me know. I have to I have to drop the high depth camera and went to my laptop camera. Okay. So let's get back to this. These guys that I can't even begin to describe how dangerous Bitcoin unlimited is. Besides the sheer incompetence of giving away 13 Bitcoins. Okay. Because they don't even know what. I don't know. Who are their developers? Did you see that tweet? It's like Bitcoin core has like 100 plus developers being paid by at least three or four different companies. Plus 100 volunteers. And Bitcoin unlimited has like eight or nine developers. One of them is Jerry David Chan who I know who I did not know had the I mean I couldn't be wrong. I didn't know he had like that much competency in core development. I would be I mean he might I would be surprised. I don't think that was ever his specialty. Another one is Bitcoin error log who I also know. I mean and I like I have no idea he had that kind of programming specialty and skills. So they are honestly think they threw anybody in there who had any kind of contribution. They're developers. I've never heard of any of them. And then Roger starts debate with me saying these new guys came in and they have control of Bitcoin. Who are the new guys somebody replied to that and said well let's see Peter Todd and Gregory Maxwell and looked at junior and van the leader almost all of them have been in Bitcoin as long if not longer than Roger Vier. Has them have been told that are older than Roger Vier's Bitcoin talk account show up. These guys have been here for a really long time. Now the biggest company that supports our core developers by keeping them from getting paid five times more money than they are from Bitcoin. Somewhere on Wall Street and they're like probably begging them not to quit from all the segregation. One of these companies block stream supposedly one of their investors has some kind of connection to the banking industry. I have not had time to look into this. I have requested a list of block stream investors. I want to take a look at it myself. I need to make sure this I know it's fun but I want to make sure there is some legitimacy behind the claim that oh banksters are funding Bitcoin core. So so what even if they are they are programming open source code this code is objective. Most of those people are like pay. So they are really starting to lose you. I'm coming. Hey code. Suppose I can't I haven't looked at the evidence that they're definitely being funded by bankers right. What if it's like some private hedge fund that bought a bunch of Bitcoin and is now funding core development so that their position in Bitcoin goes up. It's a terrible assumption that all banksters are evil and by the way on a side note before I continue people have learned people have read it especially read it. Like there was like dozens of Reddit comments maybe not dozens but it definitely half a dozen. Phone vase. He's just another bank. There were Bitcoin unlimited look I'm not saying I'm important to Bitcoin but if you're supporting Bitcoin unlimited and you think core is the like overtake Bitcoin and you've never heard of me your opinion could not matter less you know nothing you came. And remember that sometimes when the banksters invest their money we don't know what they're doing recently and racing or with one of the largest venture capitalist firms in the world invested in open bizarre. We don't know why maybe they like the idea maybe they want to order something off the second generation that now has tore it's questionable these these we see sometimes invest because they have a friend. The 21 Bitcoin computer doesn't seem to be on track to make any money but everyone knows Bellagy is a major investor a major player in the venture capital world and of course you would invest in his project of he's been incredibly successful in the past a lot of this is track record here. Right no and I agree with that too but people have to realize I've been saying for three plus years the greatest investment you can make is by Bitcoin with half your funds even a third of your funds and spend the other two thirds of your funds trying to make Bitcoin into these decentralized machine of value transfer. Okay so you don't know like they're assuming everyone's a banker what if what if they're assuming that it's like literally a hedge fund that can literally take that takes people's money and they can do whatever they want with that money as long as it's a good investment that's exactly what I would do if I was a hedge fund I would take I would take a hundred million dollars I would put half of it or a third of it into Bitcoin and the other two thirds I would give to Bitcoin coer to make sure that they continue to program Bitcoin. So let's get back to the whole banker thing. So let's play devil's I'm gonna play my own devil's advocate right I'm gonna assume that bankers as they call them are funding core right and all of a sudden everyone is pissed and everyone hates it at the same time the same people I really want to call them a derogatory term but I'm gonna stay away the same people who are in the same place as I'm gonna be a banker. People are praying for the successful approval of the ETF guess who's in control of your freaking Bitcoin ETF it's the bankers you're screaming it again the moment Bitcoin goes to the ETF it automatically becomes in control of those same bankers and there's a giant honey pot of all that Bitcoin that is now in control under the ETF and the bankers okay so they can start to manipulate the price of the ETF that is going to have an effect on the underlying Bitcoin itself let's let's see what else I think this is a really good point you're bringing up tone that people haven't thought of before this is similar to what a professor Hawking said about contacting alien life we're not sure what's gonna happen all of this money in the stock market could now suddenly enter Bitcoin exit Bitcoin exit exit exit exit etc we have no idea they could be shorting or long all kinds of things new effect on the market through the insurance Exactly you can do naked shorts as well probably eventually look it is so bad I've been against the ETF from day one not only is having an ETF a huge like a huge risk that the bankers the real bankers can actually have control of a large chunk of Bitcoin the government now has control of a large chunk of Bitcoin the moment government decides Bitcoin a hostile and 25% of all Bitcoin is sitting in a vinkal was ETF here come government agents at vinkal was office and say hey we really like this Bitcoin how about this 25% of Bitcoin is now ours what is it have to do with Bitcoin and Luda tongue well no it's the same people these people are Bitcoin unlimited people hate Bitcoin core because apparently some of their funding came from bankers and usually most of these people want the Bitcoin ETF to go through to put Bitcoin actually control the bank by control of the bankers now is this really what we've always been talking about the early libertarian bitcoins are eventually going to lose their control over Bitcoin this was a beautiful pet project in their backyard and they owned it for many years and unfortunately it's going to fortunately depending how you want to think of it it's going to grow beyond their backyard it's far too big for any one group or anyone person to own we all have just a very sliver we're all involved now is this it is this how the libertarians lose control through this battle can't get tone how about Gabe am I breaking up is this your question is is this is this unlimited fight how the they're going to bet it all the way that Roger Vera is clearly all in Bitcoin core is a conspiracy Bitcoin unlimited is the savior it's clearly like he's not going to come back these people are I don't know I mean very much our hard line classic and classic and XT and recent that came back from that right people are still listening to that jackass it seems like they came back only to leave again I don't really know how much I trust them well I think that I actually venegoop does analysis of the community is a little possibly a little bit more accurate where he said he divides it up into the big gal libertarians and anarchists and you know the big gal libertarians could be could be maybe the unlimited people where they're not as concerned about centralization and status and anarchists are more the the cypher punk hard core side that are for whom it's foremost and I don't think that that I think vene is correct in his analysis that that schism is maybe never will heal but I don't agree with him that it will prove to be Bitcoin's undoing in fact I think precisely that fight will hone the protocol and cause it to succeed that much better all right let's get on all the returns making a stronger dude I don't even care about the damn libertarians anymore um look it's not libertarians that are taking Bitcoin to the next last Bitcoin which I'm gonna I'm gonna I haven't had the time to go through both of the debates but Roger Veeer ridiculed be and Johnny for being savers of Bitcoin and spending crappy money like the US dollars and holding on to a Bitcoin for as long as we can and only spending what we have to and then in the beginning of his debate with Johnny Roger Veeer explicitly states that it's the savers that give Bitcoin value so that's a complete and other contradiction okay now even having said that it's not the savers that give Bitcoin value right now it's actually the users of Bitcoin which no one is actually acknowledging I'm slowly becoming a user of Bitcoin because now I have my own exotic a channel and so now maybe I'll actually get some tips and Bitcoin but it's the users of Bitcoin if you don't know who the users of Bitcoin are and no it's not you buying from purse.io then please go Google one of my articles it's called the top use cases of Bitcoin it's on my blog yeah since obviously because it's not buying your coffee at Starbucks well wait let me get back to the bankers because I'm not done apparently the bankers are so evil for handing their money for open source development yet at the same time the bankers are so great to control the Bitcoin ETF let's see what else bankers do so how come everyone was so happy when 300 bankers joined the R3 non blockchain blockchain okay everyone was so happy that the bankers are getting in what about right now in a theorem everybody is buying up a theorem left and right because apparently bankers want the theorem for some reason okay so don't give me this bullshit hypocritical double standard okay I don't even believe bankers are funding a court development but I have already requested to see what I can find I haven't had the time to look at it yet I'm gonna look into the list of all of Bitcoin course investors the thing is I never cared about Bitcoin course investors because they're programming an open source project you know what you should care about who's funding development when it's not open source that's when it matters who cares who's funding open source it's all in the code I remember the bankers continue to claim that Ethereum is an alternative to Bitcoin Ethereum that has a creator Ethereum that you can roll back the chain if you have a problem Ethereum is their alternative their solution their horse well obviously though that's exactly what they want right obviously people that are supporting Bitcoin unlimited they want more centralization they want this kind of control they want to turn it into a theory that's exactly what they want because they have a group they have a group of like eight developers and they think this is more decentralized than 150 developers you know all over the place I just want to point out the way that you just described open source software is not really that black and white understanding of open source software is not really how the world works in other words just because software is open source does not mean that one cannot introduce problems introduce vulnerabilities Linux is a perfect example of this system D is open source and yet it's a complete spaghetti hack full of backdoors and problems that have been found over the years and it was all coded up by Red Hat which was owned by the US Navy I believe so that's not a black and white thing but it's you know it is true yeah it's true that just because your funding sources from a doesn't mean that you're also going to be you know introducing problems induced by a right neuro gay gay I I agree with you but Bitcoin is a little different right because we have multiple we have three levels of fail saves right we have the core we have core developers are constantly checking each other and in this case like I bullshit is extremely important look how quickly my current got exposed for the crap he was pulling in his code right oh yeah I agree right it's right it's much higher higher bar than Linux that's right right we we have a second layer of of control that being miners so miners actually have to approve it to go in but I think there is a bigger layer of control in the nodes right so we actually have we actually have over 50% of the nodes signaling for segwit while only 30% of the of the miners are signaling for segwit I think it's more important for the nodes the nodes are the people that's why I already have people I've been telling people please run your own node like look up the details and it's a little we're gonna it's a little more you want to that you want to download the latest version of the Bitcoin core client and then there is a port that you need to open I don't want to say the numbers of the port but but there are like 83 33 83 33 okay I knew it was 83 something I couldn't remember if top of my head right right on your router that's that's the important that's the really important step that's a little bit techy right hey Gabe so maybe you can like post the link so Thomas can put it in the description of this video or you have admin rights maybe you can put it in the description of the video how people can set up and I think we should do that from now on with every video like added to the description how to set up your own node and signal for core or Bitcoin unlimited or whatever else you want because I think at the end of the day it's the users that need to decide not the miners and if the users are telling you 80% of the users want segwit the miners are not gonna have a choice the miners are not gonna go against the community they're mining for yeah that's right you know I don't know if you've been following this tone but on oh my god it's not full notes we kind of lost you there but I just wanted to point out that I know you've been at an archipelago week but there is currently a bunch of chatter on the web and on the on the Bitcoin mailing list and stuff about switching to what they're calling a uasf which is user activated soft fork and what they of course mean is the same thing as you mean which is full nodes activation full node signaling so and that's really why you know the nodes are the ones who relay transactions they actually check the validity of transactions and people think that miners do that actually miners are just deciding which transactions go into blocks they get to control that but they don't get to control which you know transactions are relayed as valid by the nodes and of course that's the node so I think it's really a great move that we've I mean we've understood that okay this this hash rate method is probably placing too much politics on the mining infrastructure and too displacing too much power there it's a little unbalanced by putting it with the nodes I think that's a lot smarter choice I totally agree with you there and I also just wanted to point out something else which you only touched on briefly and I really think it's such an important point and so so relevant for the economics of Bitcoin and that is you were saying that some of the unlimited supporters that you were talking to were giving you crap for hoarding giving you crap for holding your Bitcoin's and not wanting to sell them and I think that arises from a fallacy about economics I believe it's Gresham's law where they say you know bad money pushes out good because it's in circulation but I don't really believe that that's valid in every situation and if you want to learn more about that check out Daniel Krayos' article from the Nakamoto Institute from three years ago I'm hoarding Bitcoin's and no you can't have any he makes a very compelling and clear argument that hoarding is the primary way that any asset maintains its value and by spending it you're just diluting it you're basically selling it so yeah check out that article everyone we'll post it in the show notes yeah Krayos come on well to the first of all Daniel are amazing awesome please read all of his work I wish I had the time to do it unfortunately I don't I do need to catch up now hey so Gabriel you just explained to me what a user activated software case thank you for that information now here is the thing now I guarantee you there will be enough comments at the bottom of this video calling me an idiot for not knowing what a user activated software was until about two minutes ago but guess what I am not a predator I don't read Bitcoin talk I don't read every story that comes through I'm busy I'm traveling I'm speaking at conferences I've been teaching a seminar for two days I'm trading I'm trading myself thank God earning season is over right and I am with that I still try to maintain some of a life I don't pay attention to every single thing and every single acronym but guess what I've been talking about a user activated software without even knowing what the hell it was for a little while now because it made sense it makes sense I didn't even know that's what it was I heard the acronym I even asked Johnny a question hey Johnny what's a user activated software I had no idea that it would be full-known dependent so exactly what I've been saying this is just common sense and some people think I'm an idiot for not knowing this earlier but guess what I actually think it's great that I figured it out all on my own without needing help from anyone not the core developers not the miners and no I am not their shell I have almost no communication with the core dev team other than like running into Johnny and talking to him and being very glad he did it you know occasionally I'll text Eric LaBroso or something and just recently I chatted a little bit with Alex Petrov of Bitfury who is also great you should check out their work like this stuff is just common sense set up a note signal segway so we can actually scale and these value ability will be gone there will be more room in the blocks and and don't believe these freaking miners that are saying oh we need bigger blocks meanwhile they haven't mind a full block probably ever these are the people that are supporting big blocks it's completely ridiculous I'm honestly getting very frustrated with this I already I already promised on stage because me and Roger Vier got into it a little bit if Bitcoin unlimited becomes a dominant fork no one will ever hear tone Vays talk about Bitcoin again I'm gonna remain a content creator but it will have nothing to do with Bitcoin I will be out I almost vowed to do the same if segregated witness doesn't get approved but because I am okay with the status quo and I am okay with a hundred dollar transaction if they continue to block segway I'm not gonna vow to leave the content Bitcoin space if if we have status quo I'm okay with the status quo I want segway I am pushing for segway if Bitcoin unlimited wins tone Vays is out it's a I mean I don't know what I'm gonna do with my Bitcoin but but it'll split in two I'm staying on your old chain I'm gonna stay with bit fury and and and the one block and the one megabyte chain and guys don't forget after segway gets activated and if segway and lightning network don't solve our problems or if lightning network comes too late we can always hard fork then without contention I will not create contention if segway is running to its full capacity miners are mining full blocks and not this bullshit empty block thing and the blocks are full I might be on board with a hard fork to two megabytes but I'm completely against it right now because right now it's contentious if a hard fork is not contentious even the core team is going to suggest it and like nobody believes that all right now I'm done now I'm done if Bitcoin unlimited wins tone Vays is out moving on to issue 4 venture capital ICO blockchain capital a VC firm well known for backing Bitcoin startups and led by Bitcoin foundation chairman Brock Pierce is branching out into altcoins the firm plans and ICO and initial coin offering of tokens which will trade on external markets disrupting and democratizing the venture capital industry the firm plans to raise 50 million dollars in the new fund issuing the funds through the tokens through token hub with more details in a month or two Gabriel D. Vaan are ICOs the future of venture capital you know ICOs it's a really really broad subject it can be done in a lot of different ways a lot of a lot of ins a lot of outs you know it all in the devils in the details you know I think that there may someday be something that one could consider a fair equitable and functional initial coin offering we haven't seen it yet I think probably and we certainly don't have enough details on this story to judge its viability or its future in any way but unlike say tone I think has expressed his thoughts on this unlike tone I do believe that smart contracts possibly app tokens or just you know just equity tokens let's call them do have a very bright future and I think that they are going to revolutionize the equity trading world and I think we're I think eventually we're only going to have crypto tokens and we're not going to have the traditional stock markets that we suffer under today whose fractional reserve and fraud we suffer under today so I think that it's quite interesting he's kind of doing a centralized version of the Dow which sounds like it actually might be more trustworthy in this case but I really would have to know exactly what the relationship is between the ownership of the equity token and the capital that's getting allocated to the projects and all that there's a huge amount of leeway in there in that giant umbrella of initial coin offering so we'll see what happens then it's in interesting space I would assume that he's probably jumping the gun and it's going to go really wrong because there's so many pitfalls so get ready for a lot of crashes and hacks and be very very very vigilant and it's and super conservative with your token investments and do remember that the problem with the Dow wasn't raising funds they raised a hundred and fifty million dollars people obviously want to invest in a venture capital firm with their Bitcoin or their Ethereum profits and to be clear Brock Pierce is a serious guy he's no doubt gotten some lawyers to work on this and they must assume that it's going to be okay this isn't btc-e or bitfinex or some random place printing up a token this is an American based VC firm and they'll probably raise the money but here we go ton what do you think about Brock Pierce and his ICO oh man okay so I I'm gonna partially plead the fifth on this one uh can you guys hear me sure I cut the video that sounds good just keep going can I put the video back on can you try all right let me let me know if it's not good okay so I'm gonna partially plead the fifth on this one only because I know nothing about this other than Brock Pierce is doing something with ICOs usually I jump the gun and I call everything a scam that's actually not true I usually do at least 10 minutes of research and you be surprised the kind of opinion oh you shouldn't be surprised the kind of opinion I form in 10 minutes of research unfortunately I have done absolutely zero research when it comes to Brock Pierce's ICO thing so there's really I really don't want to say anything as much as I hate ICOs I agree with you Thomas Brock Pierce is a serious guy he runs an actual VC he has experience in being a VC he actually has real lawyers he has the ear of important people he I don't think he would do this if he wasn't somehow sure like I trust him and what he's doing way more than Vitalik and what a theory and pull back in the day because those guys were nobody I wouldn't call Brock Pierce and nobody I would not not at all and honestly I kind of like Brock Pierce I don't like his views on a theory and the way he was kind of pushing a theory but that's because I'm not a fan of a theory but I'm sure it made him some money and it made his investor some money so I want to hold off criticisms any kind I want to hold off any criticisms on this venture from Brock Pierce in addition and I'm only going to say this because it's true not because I'm trying to somehow impress anyone about three days ago I don't remember now Brock Pierce actually reached out to me to to talk to me about this maybe come on my podcast I don't think people realize that I run a crypto scam podcast they just they just hear they run a podcast and I did not have the time to talk to him as weird as it fucking sounds I'm like the guy that's like half broke like trying to like check plain ticket prices every day to get the Mexico to make to make sure that you know like if the plain ticket is eight is eight hundred dollars on my pencil this trip and if the plain ticket is like four hundred dollars I'm gonna go and as weird as it sounds me dealing with this Bitcoin versus segment it was just as much as the last thing I want to do is tell Brock Pierce look I'm sorry I just don't have the time to talk to you right now as retarded as that sounds that's exactly what I had to do because I was just dealing with so much here in Mexico and Bitcoin and segment is just so much more important right now and that's my complete focus the moment I get home or maybe like tomorrow or the day after when when I'm staying in Mexico a few days to attempt to relax I would reach out to him and I'm gonna try and talk to him to find out more about it but until I do it will also be disrespectful because I know Brock and I had a chance to talk to him about this and find out some details but I didn't so it would be very very disrespectful for me to say anything on negative about his venture at this point in time until I actually fall in back so that's all I can say fortunately tone there there is no information really about this ICO there's no there's nothing to research there's three or four articles all from the same source but my take on this is that again someone official is coming to this market if last year was the year of blockchains this year is the year of ICOs other people have argued with me they're saying it's the year of internet of things or the year of the Bitcoin come back but everybody's got to pick their theme for the year and it's looked to me like the year of ICOs I will comment on this right because I everyone knows I hate ICOs and I think they're pretty much 99% of them have been scammy up to this point and the only reason I say 99% of them maybe there was one that I'm not aware of that was actually legit but if someone wants to name me one I'm all years so if Brock peers does have a legal team behind him and Brock peers now sets a president president president for the legitimacy of past ICOs I will be a very very upset man like in a way I don't want Brock doing this because if I legitimize some of the scams and then he would give them like legal cover because of his legal team for the ICO that he's doing and then you have these scams claiming well if that one's legit so are we and they're not so that's the only thing that I worry about but again I don't want to speculate until I would be completely disrespectful to Brock peers for me to put him in the same class as all these prior ICOs until I actually I didn't even know there was no research to do again we also we also can't deny we know these guys and Brock peers also works with Jeremy Gardner who is very successful with his ICO for auger no doubt Brock saw that he saw the success of auger auger goes from kind of a project they're working on to a garage to a fully funded project I don't know if it's going to be successful but they are fully funded and they can make whatever they can make right so so that that's as much as I can say about the project and it I didn't even know there was no details like like that's how little I know about this all I know is like three people told me while I was here in Mexico that Brock peers is doing something big with ICOs and that's all I really know so until I know more I have nothing I really have nothing to comment on this subject let's also be straight and assume Brock's not going to watch this show but if you do hi Brock so gay anymore thoughts on this issue before we move on all right exit question blockchain capital will be successful and raising the $50 million yes or no Gabriel Devon oh yeah I bet you they'll raise more than 50 tone vase I think they're only asking for 50 they'll probably raise it in about two days and I'm being somewhat generous they could have asked for 200 they probably get it I mean Brock no they'll get that 50 in a hurry the answer is yes you also have to assume with someone professional involved they've probably lined up 40 maybe 45 million already they're just looking for a little cherry on the top and give the normal people a chance to invest in this thing so who knows how that's going to go all right let's go on to the bonus issue requested by the chat they'd all like to hear our thoughts on dash I don't know what to say about dash I guess the price has gone to $43 it's the number three cryptocurrency behind Ethereum and this all means something a dash coin started out as dark coin has this unique master node structure kind of interesting has this bounty type system that somehow pays Amanda Palmer to make endless dash videos that sounds kind of Johnson Johnson sorry I think she changed her name I'm gonna go she has two names but Amanda Johnson I might confuse apologies but yeah Amanda Johnson she probably did really well I'm gonna imagine she held dash I hope she sold at this 43 number this sounds really good to me what do you guys think Gabriel let's go to you first I want to go first I got I got no I got to run to dinner that's why because there's people catching a flight later I don't know how to make this quick but right after I'm done I'm gonna have to cut the feed okay so dash I have a one hour video of crypto scam talking about dash so everyone please go find crypto scam episode four dash dash is to me dash is very very scammy now but that's just me that's my opinion so as far as the dash price goes so first of all Roger Vier has made it clear that he has diversified some of his Bitcoin into dash along with Manero Z cash and the Z coin which I've never heard of until Roger Vier put it up on the slide so right there that creates the dash pump then Roger Vier tweets that he just moved a hundred thousand dollars via dash paying a three cent fee which is again like basically in my opinion Roger Vier is now pumping shit coins okay this bothers me okay and he's supposed to be the ultimate Bitcoiner I have zero anything other than Bitcoin it's possible I might have some Litecoin in some from like 2013 when we roll into altcoins I have no idea where they even are at this point I probably I don't know if I run if I run across the the backup maybe I'll remember the password maybe so I don't even care okay so I haven't diversified Roger's diversified into dash so Roger is I think Roger is significantly responsible for this pump I am also to blame for this pump the two debates between me and Roger and then between Roger and Johnny were filmed at the crypto show remote studio and they are sponsored by dash these videos have been watched by over 10,000 people each video or close to 10,000 people each video and throughout for three hours of combined video time there is a banner there that says we love dash okay I am fully responsible for not taking down that banner because these shows were not the official show so therefore this is partially our fault definitely Roger Vier is involved and it's just a pump there is nothing there the reason why Roger came over a hundred thousand dollars for one dash wall to another dash wall is because nobody uses dash this is freaking ridiculous okay I'm gonna leave it there I got to run to dinner I can't believe Chris Ellis just joined and I don't have the time to could again this is like this is like this is like my Brock Pierce thing it's like I really want to stay and talk but I really have to run and it really really sucks but Chris people have been listening to my rant about creating full nodes and people are creating full nodes we just have to give them the the right details in order for them to set up this note correctly so that they're signaling for segwood properly so maybe we can like put out more videos and actually explaining to people how to set up a full node for segwood support and then we all do a user activated software I'm perfectly okay with that all right I let's say anyone has a quick question for me I'm gonna have to cut this cut this one all right Tony thanks for joining us all right Gabriel Devon do you want to go some thoughts on dash and then we'll talk to Chris Ellis I just look to say that Twinkies are really not food and that one should one should eat things that provide one with nutrition and that's not what that is it's very upsetting to me I you know dash hey you know it's a blockchain and they're trying some things out and that's cool and they do a lot of pumping and that's cool and everything and they seem to have a relatively centralized development community which could come invite them in the ass someday you know whatever there there may be some use for it I guess at some point maybe but yeah another cool test net where they're doing different things master I agree with everything Thomas said pretty much I don't have much of an opinion on it it's obviously getting pumped now wouldn't be surprised if it crashes whatever to answer the guys question and chat tone probably doesn't use bitcoin at all in a week he's too paranoid to touch it he's worried about his money getting there but he seemed to be saying that now that he's a cam girl on the exotic site and he gets tips for doing sexy news maybe he's got some money there that he might actually spend because it came from the ether but we're joined by Chris Ellis who's eating Twinkies must mean you're in America because we taught you well how's it going out there in America Chris I'm great I'm in the USSA wow yeah Donald Trump's America unfortunately okay and over the border was a real hoop that's going by the Canadians they were loving it so what brings you to Canada for one whole day I'm just passing through I want to see Trump's America Maga and gonna build a wall making pay for all that stuff add all the lines ready for the border they didn't even like any care add all that stuff rehearsed they didn't even ask me anything about Trump he was really disappointing I wiped my hard drive I did all that stuff because I was like paranoid that we're gonna go through my shit and then they're very good I told you no one cared I told you no one yeah nothing nothing he's doing Twinkies well why aren't you eating lucky charms aren't lucky charms like 62 pounds of box in the UK but they're they're about 26 in the States should you do lucky charms that's the hipster you can't even get these in the UK I really no no I already the only reason this meme started when I first came to the States with Tom it was because of ghost busters remember the ghost busters scene where he's like Twinkies and he makes a joke about it having all the major food groups and everything it's got fructose corn syrup that's the only reason I was tempted when I came to DC with Tom to buy some so I never had one before I just remembered it from the ghost busters movie and tell them about the Twinkie it's all about Twinkie so um what did you done guy myself did we talk about did we talk about the dash scam did we talk about oh I just got to dash at the end and and we just don't know much about it I mean it was dark coin it was kind of interesting yeah obviously it went to forty three dollars a coin I wish I had some I don't have it I think dash I think dash cams are really good they can offer you a lot of evidence you get into a crash especially good in Russia there's a lot of hit and run accidents you need that dash cam I think the most coins cost a thousand dash set up when I went into the community I was like all for it you know it's gonna be full notes for them and everything I was got a lot of trolling when I was just kind of able to help one of the community members invited me in and I was all for it and I did uh install my own full note on on a raspberry pi for dash but then there was just like this particularly this one guy on the forum he was a master note operator who was dead set against my project because it basically put him out of business as if anyone could then become because the point is that my understanding or at least at the time was that anyone could be a dash master note you didn't actually have to own the coins yourself you just had to have the public so someone else could have buy the coins for you right and you could just have it custodially on like on your thing but you wouldn't be able to have you know full control over those coins so the idea was like I could give some master some master note to to Alikhanani and Botswana and she could just make herself some money running this master note but he was like dead set against it and I remember Amanda B. Johnson then started trolling me completely without provocations you to start like you know tweeting me on Twitter quite publicly going about how the you know the full note project is stupid it's like I find it really difficult to understand how you could be so critical of somebody giving up that time for free to build full notes with people across the world trying like spread awareness and essentially education is decentralization once people understand how the stuff works and they lose their fear of the technology you've achieved decentralization which in my view is is Bitcoin's most important component and of course dash can process of payment really cheaply every altcoin can so can like coins so can feather coins so can you know a pay coin and all those other scam coins but that's because they're not being used you're really being used by speculators and exchanges in fact in fact in most cases it's just exchanges because speculators keep all their coins on Poloniax anyway they never take them off so it's you know you're of course it can process a transaction much quicker but taken to its corollary if if if if Roger Verne wanted to take dash to where he wants to take Bitcoin he would still bump up against the same problems he would still have the issue he's still going to need several gigabytes worth of blocks you know every minute and you're just not going to be able to achieve that so all he's doing is jumping from one bandwagon to the other and then he'll get pissed off with dash and then he'll start promoting another scam and he'll jump onto that ship and I think well him and Gavin and Jason are really just trying to do is really what what they're a gender is they don't like Bitcoin core so they just jump on all these other projects as a way of you know discrediting core but you're you're not comparing like for like you're not comparing apples with apples so is it possible that they'll develop some kind of a dash unlimited or a dash classic that could solve these problems okay you can't change the laws of the universe the blockchain is a linked list okay it's a linear list linear array and there is only so much bandwidth what you're complaining about when you're saying that the transactions aren't fast enough is you're complaining about the scarcity of bandwidth the fact is that you know the copper wires that run on the ground the fiber optic cables and the satellites that do a little bit of bandwidth load balancing as well across the world are just not there yet we just don't have that kind of throughput but thousands of transactions if what you're looking for is global settlement finality right what Bitcoin gives you for $1.26 or whatever that chap said from FB 7 to Bitcoin he was complaining because this transaction cost him $1.26 well first of all be grateful that you got in on the ground floor and investment that's basically risen you know hundreds orders of magnitude since you've bought in so so I'm sure you're grateful for that so I'm sure you're you're going to overlook a dollar here or a dollar there on your payment fees and second of all what you're paying for is your paying for global settlement finality and you don't get that with visa and you don't get that with mastercard or western union or even PayPal they all have chargebacks and we're not saying I don't believe I don't know many people that are saying the Bitcoin should replace those things right because you're comparing apples and oranges but these are is a transactional system it's almost like an iMap server right really what it's doing is it's relaying messages across the network like an email server would relay messages across the network but it's not a currency in its own right and it's certainly not a strict rigorous order of events that the whole world cannot disagree on like the whole world can't mathematically disagree on and I think what what poses a threat to a lot of these businesses like Coinbase who perhaps achieved quite a lot of upfront funding and they've got term sheets they've got to meet certain metrics by the end of each month because after going for meetings with overseas sees is that they see ideas like lightning network and they think well shit you know if this thing gets pushed through then you don't really need us anymore you don't need these kind of third party you know solutions people can just spin up their own kind of open source versions of this take a lot of this stuff off chain I mean you're still using Bitcoin you're still using the primitives behind Bitcoin but you're just not you're just choosing not to put every single thing in the block at the same time to do in order to increase capacity and that's an existential threat to their business model because they wanted to be able to provide that service now okay I mean that's just bad entrepreneurial as I'm sorry I mean you got into early you raised too much money I don't know what to tell you maybe try something else it's called a pivot it's called a pivot yeah it's got a pivot it's like fail fast you know fail fail early and that's what you just need to do I'm sorry that your business model didn't wake out but the universe doesn't owe you a failure I'm sorry the bandwidth across the world just you know just hasn't reached symmetry yet you know I'm in the States right now and my cell phone has 20 megabytes up and down on AT&T and at home on on our broadband connection I get half a megabyte upload and I get about 10 megabytes so my cell phone is currently you know over 20 times faster than my home broadband in England and it's just that's the way it is and when I went to South Africa the internet was terrible and apparently in other parts of Africa it's even worse so remember you're going to need that in the US to access all of our video streaming services because you need to stream video all the time with all the ads on CV on my ad which pretty much we're trying to try watching the walking dead the other day it was completely unwatchable you had one scene at the another scene at the I'm like how do people even that's how you get Tivo you get Tivo your core and really they don't let you fast forward so that is awesome people's taunts off anyway it's been years since I watched the show being broadcast so you know I got to say I I grew with you what you're saying about you know the failed business models and stuff but I'm not too worried about it to me it looks like kind of like pebbles hitting an immovable mountain bitcoin is so much more powerful than a lot of people think it is and I'm these type of attacks it's anti-fragile and I'm just watching xt classic unlimited it ain't going to work you can't trick people that really care about something in our smart you can't trick them so it's it's just it's you know these altcoins and stuff that's just a bunch of speculators and it's going to crash later you can't trick people into using your shit if you have open source software and you have money at stake and all these companies I think it's great I think they should spend their money to try to change bitcoin into something that will make their business succeed because they're just going to fail over and over and over and after every failure Bitcoin will come out that much stronger the chats reminding us of other delicious treats including Twinkies Oreos peanut butter and the chat also says that Amanda B Johnson is very attractive so congratulations to Amanda while we have Chris here do you want to just go over some of the issues we talked about we talked about Craig Wright and his Satoshi patents do you think Craig Wright is Satoshi? No either either no or he is like the best actor in the world and he pulled off a triple-bub double bluff so he basically deliberately acted stupid to make us think that he isn't Satoshi when actually he is that that's the only plausible explanation I could come up with to read any sat did you hear the recording that GQ magazine released of him after this was not so long ago now I haven't heard the report. Now look it up look it up on your favorite search engine that doesn't invade your privacy and you will find GQ released the audio recording they made the raw copy of the audio recording of him in a room with John Matonis and Nicholas Cortwai I believe I hope I'm pronouncing his name from from UCL the University College London here at the sit almost over here in London back where I was in London because a really smart professor at London University and you know him and Craig Wright having a bit of a face or having a bit of like a you know provado and Nicholas is basically saying but my students have been able to create this bulk before in open SSL in order to prove what you were ledged to approved and and he basically shouts and says stop making me jump through hoops why are you making me jump through hoops or you know you're claiming to be Satoshi Nakamoto we're just asking you to you know to science and things for us so that was really funny the only thing I can think of in his favor like just to be in his defense because I think he goes without saying the guys a bit of a nutshell but the only thing I could think of to say in his favor was that maybe he is Satoshi and he deliberately played a fool so that we wouldn't ever believe that he's Satoshi that's the only thing I could say in his defense our our theory is that he actually is the fool that he's the fraydo of the group he has some evidence but not all evidence some of the keys but not all the keys he's just you know he's he can prove some things and it's impressive because you know I can't prove anything I'm not involved at all but he can prove something we just have to see how that goes so Gabe did you want to add proof nothing he can't prove nothing I agree with Chris I've already brought it up before that I think that you know Craig Wright you know the only the only plausible either he's a complete troll which seems very plausible or there's a tiny fraction of a chance that he's actually Satoshi and he's trying to shunt off some attention by posing to be playing the fool posing posing being a jackass like Gavin once again back to fraydo he's got nothing he's got nothing Mike but he can bang cocktail wait just as to it at a time so he's got that issue two was the Bitcoin price surge Chris Ellis what do you think about 1200 are we going higher is the ETF going to be approved yeah I think that this whole thing is obviously being fueled by the ETF and obviously hitting the gold prices it's a psychological point I think for a lot of the full-rack traders who probably spend a lot of their time watching Bloomberg and staring at candlestick charts every day so for them I guess that's the psychological price that's called the romance that's why they're called candlesticks romance right right not because of the Japanese the soccer yeah okay not because of all that okay I think that it's being fueled by the speculation on the 25-ish 30% chance that the CTF is going to go through and then when it doesn't I'm expecting it to crash I could be wrong but I this is this max of a buy the room a cell the news Bitcoin has always been a very narrative driven economy where we tell ourselves a story and it gets very narcissistic and people start buying just because they believe other people will with the same information and when that eventually expires and when you know that the news comes out people just dump it you know and they sell it down so I you know I hope that we're going to get get two thousand dollars and maybe we feel back to 1200 or something of that order that's kind of what I'm expecting but famously I don't make predictions and I never will and that Frado news is a fact you guys could watch Godfather too if you want to verify that Frado has interests people are asking if this is live yes it's live I'm just not looking at the chart right now last chart I saw I don't know 1274 1284 people are saying 1290 I believe them let's let's try issue three on Chris what do you think about Gavin and Bitcoin unlimited are you an unlimited fan no not really I mean I don't I don't mind it's an open source project and Amir Tarky is a guy who once wrote and created the Bitcoin improvement proposal which you couldn't just type that into duck.go or another favorite search engine that doesn't snoop on you and he he built the first you know Bitcoin improvement proposal that then Luke dash junior took over and bit number two so there was always an established process for how you want to make changes to and I I am a big fan of that process and I understand that the businesses in Bitcoin have some some outstanding grievances and issues which I have been following and I have done some transcription work for some of the interviews that we did on whale pool team speak and so on but I find the whole thing you know the saying that if you if you fight with a pig you end up getting dirty in any way the pig enjoys it this is kind of how I feel with a block size debate there really isn't very much point I can't say a lot or I can try and be absurd and I can be really you know dry and absurdist on on Twitter that that's all I can really do but nothing I say is really going to help anyone learn everything I think parbo is causing this riff it's helpful to not see this as an exclusive problem with Bitcoin itself and the community it's helpful if we look at how politics and other industries have been affected by short form media like Twitter which has created deviceiveness and has divided communities and divided teams before and part of the problem is that Twitter creates this culture of subtextualism and I think this kind of and read it as well this culture of people who just read headlines and comments but never read the article itself or a very small proportion of them will and as a result nuance is dead and truth forget it fat checking what is that what is fat we're post-fact we're living in a post-fact world they got rid of all the card catalogs I'm not even sure where you look up information and right right so what is required is is a renaissance in in for the state and what we need is a complete overhaul of journalism itself and everyone needs to understand that as well as being your own bank you need to stop being your own journalist because what you're reading now are publications you're not reading repotage anymore you're not reading when the old days of course that's what it was called repotage and now we call it long form content like oh boring it's like a medium post is about as long form content is you're going to get and and even those medium posts you know normally they're just there to spark controversy because you it's about driving hits it's about getting eyeballs on the screen to get conversions to sell advertising or to promote some kind of agenda that you have some company or you know thing that you're involved with but you want to promote and as a result truth is irrelevant it's not that it's not there it exists it's just irrelevant sometimes the truth is used as a weapon to hurt people sometimes it's just ignored completely what's important is your message is convenient that it drives an agenda that you're pursuing so there really isn't very much pointing in trying to get into a debate with Roger Verne of his sock puppet account or any of the sock puppet accounts frankly that I see also coming from some of the Bitcoin course I because the thing I love about Bitcoin core as opposed to the other altcoins is that they are completely this is a rag tag bunch of people how do you say a completely distributed group of people who all have overlapping and dissenting opinions of not only is not what partly true thank you that's exactly what I was thinking of it's a motley crew and that's what gives it its strength there is no central power there is no kind of like person pulling all the strings like even when you go in some of the chat rooms like the slack chat room you might think to yourself or maybe drags the guy pulling the strings or maybe you know atnix is the guy pulling the strings so whatever the actually that's not true they all disagree with each other they're always fighting all the time and I like that I think that's healthy I think that's good but when you look at Ethereum the problem with them is that far too organized they're so organized they can even coordinate a hard fork because you know a couple of them got butt hurt when they over invested in in the Dow and it's like oh metallic please please please metallic and you just want to interview with Vene Gupta he specifically confirmed that viewpoint as being a major driver behind them then letting the Dow get out of control which is fine but then why I use a blockchain why not just use the sharded Oracle database I mean why even why use blockchain it doesn't make sense so that's to that's to basically hoodwink investors I think it's the main name okay all right fine fine fine look if you want a shaft a bunch of VCs out of their money by using blockchain is like this buzz we're think I think you're a little bit at bay I think you need to start using distributed ledger space and and quarter now which is what our three are calling us and IOT don't forget the internet internet things I know another hackable things yeah teddy bears that get hacked and leak you know kids stories the bedtime stories and there used to be cyberpunk fiction and now it's just normal yeah if you can dream it we can hack it right so yeah I yeah I don't see the pie I think we're working on different projects and if Roger wants to work on a project to recreate these all for it I don't have anything against the guy personally I mean the only the only thing that annoys me about Roger is that I hear far too much of his opinions and I know I my twitter feed gets drowned out because even the people that disagree with him keep reiterating things that he said and it's like I'm trying to get a different viewpoint here you know all I keep hearing about is this Roger guy who owns bitcoin.com and of course it accuses this other guy that has our bitcoin you know of censorship and yet he owns bitcoin.com I mean I don't know it just feels like a land grab and people are trying to lay claim to owning this or that or the other I don't think core owns bitcoin I think that the the the miners and the users and the exchanges tend to follow cause updates because they favor conservatism over radical change and particularly contentious change because like Statoche said if you if you have a hard fork you've got to send out a serious warning to people that when you fork the UTXO set you persisted the existing UTXO set at time zero essentially you're going to have two currencies for a hundred blocks and in that hundred block interval you've got a the side you know which well the safest thing to do is nothing nothing at all during the hard book right the safest thing to do is to lead your coins on a wallet that you control not on coin base not on some other exchange you may decide to go with a particular version or not because what happened with Ethereum was Ethereum did a lot of backroom deals the same way it happens in DC the same way it happens in parliament in London it's all about the lobbyists it's all about the back channeling it's all about going behind closed doors talking to exchanges saying look we have a problem big investor of ours over investing the Dow it's gone tits up we need you to put this patch in but just don't tell the users or certainly don't give them a choice right so we just need you to patch this update is that cool cool okay colonial tie yeah um a bit of an issue big millionaire guys on our case he's lost a lot of money on Dow we're just wondering could you could you just put this up they through for us yeah yeah the mind is totally on totally on both totally on both we've got them on Skype right now they're all for it they're all for it great okay and that BTO are they call everyone else and then all the users they just log in to like you know bit for an accident log into Polonia extra like oh yeah that's my Ethereum trade that's cool where I'm a thing all that but you're on a different chain now because you didn't own those ether because you didn't own the private keys the exchange don't the private keys the exchange gave you an IOU but in the background they changed the version because it was a big dog some some back cat he owned a shit ton of the theory and he got pissed off when he lost his money in the town investment because he was dumb enough to invest in something as stupid as the vow and now you're paying for it and now you're paying for it because the exchange has just put you onto a different port and you had no clue what was going on and so I'm fine as long as it's all transparent I'm fine as long as everybody is clear and if people want to go back the coin or roger ver coin or however we want Bitcoin unlimited or whatever is next because he's done a few now so Bitcoin XT Bitcoin Classic this one and then this one will die out and they'll be another one but what he wants is he wants you know a lot of Bitcoin has some properties okay so really important hard to mimic properties very very difficult to imitate one of them is the network effect it was unanticipated it was organic but now that it's happened it's difficult to imitate that it's difficult to get another rock coin to have the same kind of price rise to have that same kind of novelty to have that same kind of media impact I just don't think you can repeat it a lot of all coins have tried it like coin tried it better coin to some extent tried it in theory and certainly it's been probably the most successful in replicating it and dash but if you look at the dash chart it's kind of like you know somebody on having cardiac arrest it's almost like up up up down up down and I don't think another rock coin will be able to really replicate what what Bitcoin did without being different without having the same novelty but differentiating themselves in a way and maybe that is a theorem and maybe there is something to be said for a centralized version of Bitcoin that the banks can kind of get on board with and it can be centralized and Lord Vitaleck can sort of oversee the hard forking maybe that's okay maybe that's what we want and maybe Bitcoin is still there and the Bitcoin will still be there for those of us who care about and we hope a lot of other people across the world but I don't I don't see what business he has you know just sort of shit talking people on Twitter you know using his I just lose respect for him when I see him promoting all these other projects which to me just look a bit scammy rather than actually trying to push push the science and push the agenda and so on so yeah full notes hit me up with the full note question and and let's remember as much as we all we all do like Roger Vier he is a very nice guy he's helped Bitcoin out in the early days no doubt his real qualifications here are that he bought a lot of Bitcoin early right right back to that he deserves every financial benefit not trying to take that away but at a certain point we need the experts we need the core we need the people who are writing this code to tell us what they think and that's what we're hearing is we're hearing about segway so the chat's going crazy they say that truth is beauty and beauty is truth and that's all you need to know besides the fact that Dash has an incredibly attractive spokesperson they love mentioning that but hey is she is meant to pay by the pre-money money absolutely there's a it now again I think it was clever at the time I think it's clever still but Dash has part of its currency reserved for promotion they vote on it they voted hers the spokesperson she gets I don't know a couple grand I would hope a month to promote them and if she held it in dash it obviously went up I hope she did well I don't know the details about that I just I just know they have that set aside people also wanted us to talk about Ethereum Chris got a little of that going there but I want to circle back and I want to talk about the future of journalism while you're here Chris because there's been two major developments in journalism I stat the famous youtuber who started out making videos on his iMac then he made video blogs for about two years straight has millions of subscribers he's joined forces with CNN and Casey says he's going to present a new app a new website with CNN with live news feeds and that this is going to solve the news problem on the other hand we have Philip DeFranco very popular youtuber five million subscribers something like that does a kind of daily news show right now very fair he says what the issue is then he gives you his opinion he's also working on a news channel Chris do you think either of these guys nice that or Philip DeFranco will be able to change news or will we see someone like PewDiePie who already has 55 million subscribers 10 times of either of these guys will he just become news are we going to an app are we going to a person where do you think we're going to go Chris and then we'll we'll ask Gabe as well same question it's not news what you're talking about is entertainment so when you're talking about news as he knew something that's new and fresh or you're really talking about someone who's reading out the headlines but they're defining for you what that agenda is as opposed to say something like Twitter or Facebook where you have a created timeline where that corporation like Twitter or Facebook will to some extent have a two way so it's a more symmetrical relationship when when you watch MSNDS or CNN or any of these channels what you're getting is a one to many transaction and you're you're basically being fed whatever you're being fed and to some extent I guess you could argue that as a consumer you are feeding back into the news cycle but let's be honest that basically reporting to the news that they're being told by their editor in chief who's being paid by publisher so if it's the FT it's Pearson PLC that's giving you the news if it's Bloomberg then it's Bloomberg that's giving you the news if it's Sky then it's Murdoch that's giving you the news right so it's whoever really can afford to buy that infrastructure the hub to the spokesperson for its infrastructure to do a one to many broadcast then you have Twitter and Facebook where to some extent there's some symmetry to some extent they will learn from you as a corporation they have a profit motive they have shareholders that they're not just there to to be evil and spin things and they don't necessarily have that kind of agenda but they are still very powerful especially Google as well because they Google is the de facto index of the internet the table of contents for the internet for most people and as a result what comes up first what gets filtered tends to be what surface the term is used as surfacing we'll tend to affect the decisions that you make if you affect the information in a system you affect the beliefs of the entities within that system you affect the beliefs you affect the actions and the prices and commodities and so on and so forth whereas what I'm really looking for is isn't any to any or many to many and also what I'm looking for is the return of of of Rapportage fact checking revision controlled journalism which is a concept that Shining and I have been working on which is this idea that when I write an article as I write that article I commit my changes iteratively to a get hub repository or long as you get hub get how this one example but to a get a local get repository and I make time stamps periodically and what I do is every time I make a discovery or every time a source comes to me with information that my arguments in in my thesis or my Rapportage will rely on I make sure that I timestamp it I sign it and I make it tamper proof because it's been signed and check pointed in in the Bitcoin blockchain so the when I eventually come around to publishing should someone have a disagreement a dispute or just want clarification they can approach me and I can show them the source material I could publish the source material if that's okay with everyone but sometimes often in journalistic circles we don't do that kind of thing like normally a journalist would would never ever disclose who that source is right because that's otherwise no one would ever trust them ever again never would ever come to them with any information so journalists always very careful to protect their sources but I could see a feature where for example if you were a human rights you're a journalist who had a you know might be human rights and you observed a human rights violation and you wrote an article that could prove it and you had sources and this was very sensitive these people their lives could be in danger if their identities were revealed you could give them a pseudo-identity or you could take some evidence of their identity and then if you wanted to prove to the public you could simply agree to meet with an organization like human rights watch around the state international or another news organization and you could say well here is my source material please sign my commits and say that you can see that the evidence that went into my article was in fact the evidence that I found contemporaneous with events and they will be able to sign the commits that you made before you you put up the the eventual the final piece and people will then have to reach a level of settlement settlement is basically when you say okay I agree that this this article is faithful that it is truthful that it is fact checkable and where in certain outlier cases were not allowed to disclose the names and identities of certain individuals I think the the method I just outlined that specification there that works perfectly you can do it right now you can download Git and you can time stamp the Git commit hash into Bitcoin blockchain excellent Gabriel D. Vine do you have any thoughts on the future of journalism yeah you know I love I love Chris's idea about using Git as a time stamping method for you know the revisable truth and the idea that you're you're so transparent that even all the complete history of your edits on exploring a topic are totally public I think that I think that is the future the future is transparency you know as I outlined in you know blog posts from a couple three years ago future at tumbledock tumblr.com you know ubiquitous surveillance is the inevitable future that we're all hurling toward and what I mean by your ubiquitous surveillance is not that you know the powers that be you know are going to be you know it's a pent up to con where they're all going to be looking at our every move I think everyone's going to be able to look at everyone's move moves all over the place and you know you got your internet of things is going to be so incredibly hackable that you know if you have a blank spot in there they're going to try to grab it you know hackers are going to try to grab it and the more time goes on the more transparency there's going to be until our point 20th century concepts of privacy will seem as outdated as a you know a wooden club with spikes in it as a weapon but you know and as a result I think you know everybody in this mother is going to be what we might call a reporter or journalist today that's already of course happening with social media and I'd like to point out the next the other side of the equation that that Chris didn't get didn't have time to get to which is you've got the you know one to many model of traditional what we call now legacy media since it's already less popular than the Bitcoin group and other you know what we used to call it right now yeah right what we used to call alternative media you know I think that legacy media as a one to many and then you've got this sort of hybrid model of centralized social media and I think we're going to start seeing the decentralized social media projects mature over the next 10 years and we're going to have a lot of traffic on those platforms as we figure out how to how to moderate as we figure out how to integrate funding into those situations where you know on top of the existing advertising and affiliate models we're going to see micro payments I think in I still believe that micro payments will be huge but they're going to have to fit into how our culture works and they're they're going to be a two way street there where you know it may it might seem go should first to give somebody tips but then it'll then you know but then maybe over time it'll be seen as wonderful and supporting and and undermining you know systems that encourage lies so I think we're going to see a lot of really fast development over the next 10 years in how we communicate with each other and how we conceive of journalism I'm really excited about that and I think there's wonderful things in the store it's it's amazing I think we're actually in the middle of a tipping point right now and it's it's wonderful I think it's really exciting we're all we're going to see a lot of terrible things happen we're going to see a lot of problems but we're also going to see a lot of really shocking things pizza gate is just the tip of the iceberg I think there's a massive you know pedophilia network in fact I'm it's quite clear from the number of arrests that are going totally unreported in the legacy media over the last you know 10 weeks of you know arrests in pedophilia and many other scandals you know the financial stuff has been coming out over several years but we've only been getting trickles because of the the stranglehold that you know mega corporations have had on the media traditionally and that's crumbling and falling down we're going to see a lot of sacred cows being slaughtered more than most people realize I think a lot of traditional science on we're seeing the we're seeing psychology crumbling under the weight of just simple sunlight being you know placed on the on the scientific papers and then how they're totally not replicable so like the entire quote unquote science of psychology is being undermined by the truth we're going to see the same thing happen with physics in my opinion we're going to see the same thing happen with a lot of other areas that have been captured that capture the grip on it has been shaken so deeply already last year and so far this year and I think that process is going to continue it's very welcome all right well before we cover all that I wanted to loop back and I wanted to kind of warn philly d and casing nice that against sensationalism and emotionalism I know right now that the news in the us is very filtered and we're not even talking about political filter I'm talking about they don't show dead bodies on TV so if you start showing dead bodies on either of these two alternate news sources you're going to be radically different than US television I don't know how you're going to do that if you're going to be emotional if you're going to be sentimental how you want to influence this how you're not going to wear people out with the constant replication of more bodies but that's a very that's an obvious entry point I don't know if that's where they want to go but that is an idea and then I also want to talk about something Gabe talked about about universal surveillance and about the idea of being good all the time because someone's watching you there's a book by David Eggers that he wrote in 2013 but I just got to it last week there's going to be a movie with Tom Hanks it's going to be really good and it's called The Circle and I the movie might suck but yeah go on the movie might suck but I'm hoping that the exploration of ideas will be good I read the book last week and the ideas are there the the endings even interesting the girl is very ambitious and it's basically about a world that Gabe is talking about a world where there is no privacy a world where you don't ever step out of line because there are cameras everywhere maybe you're even wearing a camera around your neck that's why cryptography is so important that's why we focus so much on crypto it's the world crypto network it's it's it's not it's not the world Bitcoin network you know the cryptography is is precisely that most important technology for empowering the individual against this type of situation and you know it but I I don't know if it's a winning battle maybe and that's that's what the circle feels like is that it to some degree not to spoil anything but it's not a winning battle the circlers can make the cameras so small that they wear them around their necks they get politicians to agree to go clear which means no more backroom dealings no more dirtiness which seems like a good thing but it also takes away their privacy I don't know if you guys are familiar but James who did the world Bitcoin network is working on a new congressional project where he basically said that having secret votes protects the government and this is a very contrary position a lot of people can't get this the sunlight is the best disinfectant argument people want to apply that to everything but what James has noticed is if you have the private votes all public you can now judge how well your senators responded to your lobbying you can have a perfect report card you could say senator this one is an a senator this one is an f uh whereas if that was a secret ballot they could change their mind they could choose to support their people instead of who they're paid for so they both don't have darkness without the light though the thing that's the thing is the shadows are cast by lights so snaps and so by so the problem with this is that we need privacy is the permission that the civilization will give you to to to find out who you are right and if you don't have any privacy then obviously we're not going to get much in the way of authenticity certainly if we don't have anonymity we're not going to get authenticity so we do need some areas that are and these these people of the circle at first it's like it's techno libertarianism it's this good idea you're wearing the watch and it tracks your steps and it improves your ability to work out but then they also realize that the other step that like they're being watched all the time they can't speak freely they can't speak critically of anything they'll be corrected they'll be fixed and that this is the some of the characters are seeing this as a benefit they're saying that there is no more crime and they're saying one of the characters he he tells a story he says my wife when we first got married we were very young my wife said whenever you go somewhere think of as if I'm always there with you and certainly this is going to stop a lot of uh extra marital affairs and it's going to keep a lot of marriages together but it also has this kind of big brotherism to it where you're always thinking that you're being watched you're never going to borrow something and return it later even though there'd be no damage one of the characters borrow a kayak and takes it out and brings it back there's no damage done but to this system where everything must be shared there's a horrifying damage and if you turn your camera off if you're not recording if you're not bringing in data you're not helping the collective group which believes the more data the better right whatever the problem is the more data the better and that's they take that to an extreme level in the circle and i'm very interested to see how the film plays and if you guys want to check out the book now it's certainly available but these are interesting ideas so more to add or move on to issue four Chris says more than that I just want to say something quickly about attitude and no journalism so what you're talking about with tweedy pie arcade that's good attitude and no journalism and i don't suddenly don't have a problem with it so long as it's contextualized the song as long as you have a wide array of attitudes so nothing wrong with opeds and people are pining and and doing all of that stuff that that's all fine but what you do need is you do need a lot of people to do that in order for for an average person that doesn't because remember the the essence of of journalism is is verification what you're really doing is you're driving you're diving deep into the facts you're the muck they call it the muck rack you're you're going through the muck and you're digging through the dirt and you're finding that the piece is the nuggets and the citizens and the ones that you have a gt of care to the people that are reading your your work basically don't necessarily have the kind of time at their disposal to do the kind of research that you're doing so that's your service to them that is what you're paying that the problem that we have at the moment is really a problem with the business model is that consumers expect things to be free in it so i should say as a consumer i expect things to be free but as a professional i expect to get paid and so in our role as consumers we want to drive down costs in our roles as professionals and entrepreneurs we want to drive up the costs and who what's winning at the moment of the consumers because there are more of them than there are of the actual entrepreneurs and as a result we have this kind of imbalance in the economy where my landlord has extra rights to to levy rental charges because if you if you if i don't pay the rent i get kicked out but as a journalist i don't have that same rentier kind of power i don't have that power to extract the money from you for reading my article watching my video on the internet because there isn't a way that i can force it and so eventually well i don't know where all the pieces are going to land they all kind of up in the air what i would like to see is yes attitudinal stuff like you're talking about but that's not going to solve the problem of fake news what what we really need a fact checkers people that do the research like kind of like what wiki leaks started out as we need more wiki leaks we need more people doing that kind of work where you're you're getting those data dumps you're doing the hard work of going through that data and you're surfacing it because there are lots of responsibilities in journalism it's not just the stuff you just discussed but what about the names of victims of you know sexual abuse to you what you know if you're just not a professional journalist and you're just doing the citizen journalism thing and you just release somebody's name before you've done a proper fact check and then that person ends up becoming public what if you you know someone's accused of a very serious crime you name them and then they end up being you know vindicated and end up being found not guilty and now now you put this person's name out there into the world or whatever what if buzzfeed gets a document and then they publish the whole document it's so sensational that now we can't even look at the parts of it they're true because the sensational parts where everything else yeah right so yeah but you know a lot of the professionalism of journalism is going to be lost in this in this brave new world that we're entering into and we're looking to filly d and casey nice that to save us from that that's a lot of pressure guys a good luck finally our fourth issue today Chris we talked a little bit about blockchain capital Bryce Pierce's company or Brock Pierce are his company that is starting an ICO they're going to raise $50 million for venture capital. Hi bye. I gotta go. Good night. Good night. Wonderful joining you gentlemen fantastic to see you Chris. Don't need too many twinkies peace. Thanks for joining me. Bye. You might have to have the twinkie defense. Famous court defense unfortunately for the murder of councilman Harvey Milk here in San Francisco. fellow council member shot Mr. Milk and shot Mr. Moscone mayor Moscone and later claimed that he was on a sugar high from eating 19 twinkies. Oh my jury the jury believed it. I'm not sure a lot of people Mr. Milk of course famously is a homosexual it's in the film you can watch it's in the books and things. Very sad but very funny because it's the twinkie defense and you can want twinkies and milk. Okay see you guys. Thank you Gabe. Good night. So we had one more topic we're going to talk about the ICOs and the VC. I think it's the year of the ICO I think that Brock's got good lawyers. I think they've checked this out. I think it's going to go smoothly. I think they're going to raise the 50 mil. What do you think Chris? I don't know much about him. Let's look it up now. So what he's raised this money already or what? Well you put this kind of thing out you assume he says he's raising 50 but he got a figure he's got 40 45 already committed but the idea is pretty simple. There's been only a couple of articles we don't know any technical details but the idea is similar to auger or lisk or any of these theory of many of these successful ICOs. If you wanted to invest in the venture capital firm blockchain capital that's going to take that money invest into other companies presumably you would invest in this fund blockchain capital those investments do well. I'm not sure they do a buyback or maybe they reinvest the funds into their token somehow and you profit. So I don't know this is the future of venture capital. Yeah, this is the profit part I get stuck on. So the way a lot of what is in Bitcoin and it's surrounding ecosystem is open source and the way venture capitalists generally make money is by keeping something on the back end by having some private server with some secret source I don't know how it goes. We've seen the Bitcoin pattern you get Bitcoin you build a centralized thing like a coin base or an exchange or whatever you attach to you build an API and all that stuff and then pretty soon you can do anything you want because you're controlling the keys and the users aren't. Yeah but like we changed it that doesn't last long right so the problem is that that they're building an old that's bringing an old archetype to a new system which is largely reached its efficiency curve in economics right that there's really no more profits be made. A lot of this stuff is open source we're we're really just talking about re-combinatorial innovation now. We're really just talking about taking things that already exist that are open source that are obvious in the eye anyway so you wouldn't get a pattern them and then rearranging them into a different order. I mean you can file a pattern but good luck enforcing it because... Well I do think this is the angle that they see as a success for their patents. A company like blockchain capital has money is real is in the United States. If you're in this is where you'd want your licensing fees for inventing Bitcoin. I just think that the profit margins are going to drive to zero so quickly the only people that are going to make money are the people that jump on and jump off very quickly. So yeah yeah ICOs look the way you get in on it everyone knows this you look for the NXT pumper dumpers you look for the waves ICO people you find them on social media and you go well what are they pumping now right and then you go okay well this guy's pumping this thing and he pumped NXT and that went to the moon and that's died and he pumped waves ICO and that went to the moon list this guy was in the bliss they're called blue chip shit coins okay and these blue chip shit coins basically are built by people that have contacts in marketing advertising mainstream media so they can basically get you know your shit coin your ICO onto you know some website or some publication and the idea is that you get a bunch of insiders onto a slack channel into a forum and you're kind of like lucky and you're like buying OTC with people over PM and they are accruing some reputation and that guy from NXT and he's selling it to you and all this stuff and what you do is you buy it up and then as soon as it hits the exchange you dump dump dump okay and the exchange have the road market makers as well usually ploney access the road market makers will be selling app customers that they're in contact with who are you know big customers and so what happens is you know it's a little bit of a pump and that pump helps the people get their exit if you saw a golem you saw the way that that worked so you have a little bit of a pump and then all the people that bought before the ICO they sell into that strength and then all the newbies start carrying the bag and they have to average down average down average down as the price eventually goes to nothing for a very long time and then they sell it at a loss and then it ends up pumping anyway at some random point two three years because somebody did some article on it and that's basically how you make your money but like you're talking about like a sport sustainable business bottle forget it no there is no room for like you know big you know nice lifestyles in cities like London or San Francisco where the rent is like you know upwards of $1,500 a month and you've got you know expensive food prices you're competing with people that are living in developing countries who have living costs that are afraid really you think you're going to compete with this but what about my $10 sushi like fuck him like he you don't deserve that $10 sushi I'm really sorry to break this to you right but like that $5 latte and that $10 sushi and that gym membership and that cable thing and add all this stuff with these luxuries and those dinner parties and stuff you like going to it's not going to last like you're you're basically living off your savings you're not producing you're just consuming I mean yeah you're peddling you're peddling buzzwords and these buzzwords are very catchy and other people you know start riffing off with you so you feel like you're part of a crew and you feel like you're right because other people agree with you but just because other people agree with you just mean you're both right it just means that you're both agreeing with each other because you both stand something we gain out of this right so this idea that you can create these venture capital firms for this kind of money when we're talking about what is essentially open source software which will eventually be driven down to a zero margin cost where well we're you know maybe sustained to a three people you know on the team a small team a distributed team working full-time part-time but I don't imagine seeing much in the way of like the big profit the 20 25 percent profit margins we used to seeing sale on the FTSE 100 in the UK or the SMP I don't imagine we're going to see companies in the future making those kinds of profits maybe two three percent but I think profit forget it I think profit's done I think profit was just an anomaly for a while that we saw well remember when profits and inefficiency right profit is the system is functioning too smooth right and there's extra money and that's that's not good no no it's running inefficiently in this too so the reason profit profit is basically an aberration of when there is an inefficiency in the market that hasn't been corrected because there's this idea of like the market you know hypothesis which is the idea that every price in the market is a fair price and the problem with market efficiency hypothesis is that if the market was perfectly efficient as soon as you went into the market to try and trade of course there would be nothing to trade because the market's already discovered a perfect price so what are you doing when nobody goes shopping expectations be ripped off do they no you're looking for a bargain well presumably there are bargains but how can there be bargains if the market has already reached equilibrium how does that work so presumably there are inefficiencies in the market it's time those inefficiencies can only last for a while I knew one guy for example who was a millionaire because he used arbitrage the price of potatoes those in Holland and London so he used to buy them in Holland or whatever one price and then he used to sell them in London for another price but he wasn't trading actual potatoes he was trading the derivatives contracts so he was just like buying paper potatoes and then selling them from like one buyer over here and then just making a margin for that only last he basically had to the way had to do it was he had like one year to do this to make million or to make enough money that you never had to work again so he didn't tell anyone about this this arbitrage opportunity he just kept it to himself just went to work every day and just did as much trading as he could and then after a year other people spotted the inefficiency came in drove it to zero done and he was like fine I've got my money I'm working on same with the ICO market same with the scam coin market if they're honest with themselves all these scam coins essentially they're just trying to make more big plans they're using these altcoins to make more big coins and also the gain purchasing power I don't even think that I used to think they wanted dollars that's what I used to think and I think that's true to some extent but I think what they really want is purchasing power they don't actually care anymore about what the final thing is what the final end result is well they want is a store of value and I think what Bitcoin has proven now now that it's rebounded from 200 for the last three or four years three three years is that it's proved that it's not just a pump enough right it's proved that it can bounce back and it's resilient it's like the Microsoft I keep comparing it to the Microsoft stock price right Microsoft went up massively in the 90s crashed down 50% of its price it's now broken through its all-time highs again and Bitcoin is pretty good the same thing and good markets healthy markets grow from failure and and Bitcoin has proved that it can grow from failure so if Bitcoin crashes again down to 500 or if it goes up to 2000 crashes down to 900 that will be perfectly healthy you could safely buy that down to 900 and still be okay like for a medium-term investment and I think that's very very good for for Bitcoin and its economy but I don't see I'm sorry I'm not seeing like a 50 million dollar ROI I don't I can't right now conceive of a business like Coinbase or ChangeTip or any of these flybys I can't see them making back the kind of money that those investors expect to make like they might have made from the Facebooks and Snapchat's or whatever in the past the chat is not reacting well to our Marxist analysis but that is basically how you have to think of what Marxist analysis I just gave you a pretty well that part about profit and inefficiencies in the system that's not that's not Marxist thing that's that's something from efficient Marx hot market hypothesis that you could learn that like a Yale court online Yale course well I got the catalysts are having an allergy I'm afraid uh profit if Yale if you have a more holy system than I Marxist then but I mean I learned it by down I I learned economics by downloading courses from Yale but um I know the way I learned it was the markets having efficiencies that those are temporal in nature that they last for a while and they then they disappear as more people see them and yeah you know the same thing with the ICO if you spot a little corner on the web and you see that this little you know altcoin people have have been involved in these pump and lumps before and you get in early wink wink nudge nudge and then you you wait for it to list on polo then you dump on polo I mean that's not Marxist I'm just telling you how it is I'm not saying it's good I'm saying it's bad I'm just saying that's how it is and if these people are honest with themselves they don't want the list they don't want the NXT they want the purchasing power and the purchasing power is it's Bitcoin that's what's been proven over the last seven years that has more longevity than everything else that's not Marxist ideology and then of course it all goes back to the poker playing analogy that if you sit down at the table and you don't recognize the mark the mark is you but I think we're about running out of time so we'll go to Chris for a prediction or a story of the week anything you want to talk about Chris while we're here we have about 170 viewers still yeah I see yeah thank you very much for watching um well yeah I'm in the States and Mike do some traveling around I haven't decided yet I'm not going to make any predictions because only fools do those but I do oh yeah I suppose I can make a prediction I suppose I could say that I do expect the market to correct after this news about the ETF but there are other ETFs so I await to see what what what I'm looking forward to is the next narrative I'm not trading at the moment because I'm mostly working with a bit for next at the moment I'm looking into to the hack last year so I'm very very busy with that but I can't I don't I'm not watching the price every day so I'm interested to know how this the CTF thing is going to play out and then what effect the Bitcoin unlimited saga is going to have on on the price well I just like to thank everybody for watching and giving us a thumbs up or a share and maybe coming back later and leaving a comment wait about 170 viewers that's great and we went well over time I think we're well over two hours today but we're out of time until next time bye bye