The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Andreas Antonopoulos, author of Mastering Bitcoin. Blake Anderson from Facebook.com slash got Blake. Marshall Hainer from block.io And Megan Lourds from crypto convoes and Bitcoin not bombs. And on Thomas Hunt from Mad Bitcoin. First off, the Bitcoin Group. We'd like to recognize a regular contributor of the show. Andreas Antonopoulos for his excellent appearance before the Canadian Senate on Bitcoin. It was hard to tell if the Senate was more impressed with Andreas or with Bitcoin. Great job. Prediction. Andreas will one day appear before the American Senate. Moving on. Issue one. Bitcoin price drops below 300. The slaying of the bear whale. An unknown party sold more than 30,000 Bitcoins at the low, low price of $300, causing the entire market to move vertically for six consecutive hours on Monday night. For this epic sale, the price of Bitcoin had fallen to a recent low of $275. Since the bear whale, the market is recovered about 25% to around $375 at coin. Have we seen the low is Bitcoin about to bounce back? And Andreas Antonopoulos. Yeah, it looks like it's bouncing back already, but that doesn't mean the cycles are over or the volatility is done. This is a roller coaster. Hold on to your hats. We've got a $5 billion currency trying to swallow a world economy and bring on boards seven and a half billion people. It's a long way until we reach stability. So there are going to be more ups and downs and they're going to be sudden. They're going to be disruptive. They're going to be scary. So if you thought that Bitcoin was a suitable investment to put your family's retirement plan in and day trade, then right now you're probably having a bad day or bad months or most likely a bad here. Bitcoin is a fantastic medium of exchange. It's a fantastic long-term store value and it is a craptacular get rich quick scheme. So don't use it for that. Blake Anderson. I'm still smiling over the craptacular adjective that was fantastic. The Bitcoin, the bear whale. I like the bear whale meme that has come up on the internet with the giant whale with the bear head. It looks very scary and very vicious. But yeah, it seems like the market chopped it up and ate the big wall of Bitcoin, which was really good to see. I think that there's a lot of different factors that come into is the price of Bitcoin going to go off. I think that it's more important to discuss the factors that have an impact on this than to just try to throw darts in the discussed numbers. For right now, the hash rate has not been easing up as the price has eased up. So some people describe this as turned upside down a little bit. So if you have lots of miners that are liquidating the big coins that they mine in order to pay power and stuff like that, then you're going to have worst case scenario, about 3500 Bitcoin's hitting the markets every day. And so some people are speculating that unless there's a Western exchange open or some kind of a big event that we might see volatility in a little bit lower price point to the block having in 2016. But hopefully it won't take that long. But everybody should invest wisely and appropriately and avoid doing the things that Andreas told us we shouldn't do. Is the difficulty schedule to go down? I think it went down about one, I think it went up 1%, so it didn't quite go down. I think it was one of the smallest difficulty increases in recent times. All right. Marshall Hainer. Yeah, so I think it's interesting. I mean, you see this order hit the market and how long did it stay there before the market snapped it up? It seems like maybe like four hours or something like that. It wasn't very long. So you don't really know who's on the other side, people that want to buy. The people that want to buy $15,000,000, $30,000,000 worth of Bitcoin, they're not necessarily buying on the open market. So this was definitely unusual. A lot of those orders happen, OTC or over the counter style trades. I think it's good. It shows how strong Bitcoin is. Even if the price goes down to a dollar as many people have pointed out, it doesn't eliminate the utility of Bitcoin and the usefulness. So I think it was interesting. It's obviously a holder that got a weekend and I don't blame him. He got his millions and he got out. As shocking as it was to see the 30,000 Bitcoins for sale, it was even more shocking to see the market buy them all. Megan Lourdes. I don't know if this is the lower knot. I think there's going to continue to be a lot of volatility and that's something that's going to bring a lot of attention to Bitcoin, which I think is generally good. Even if it's bad press, I used to be very much against the idea of these journalists, they're completely ignorant. They're attacking Bitcoin for no reason. But I've recently changed my mind on that. I think people are very fixated on the price when there are a lot of other things they could be focusing on that Bitcoin is useful for. So everyone's focused on the currency aspect of it, but I think this is a good time for people to be less focused on the price and maybe more focused on some of the other possibilities out there too. So I don't know if we've seen the bottom of this or not. I'm not great at predicting the future for investments and I continue to say what I've always said to people and that's don't put more than you can afford to lose into Bitcoin if you're thinking of it as an investment. There are a lot of these horror stories on Reddit and other parts of the internet that you see people blaming the Bitcoin community for or other things too. And it's important to remember that this is not something that you really want to do a lot of trading with. It's not very stable and it's going to continue to move up and down for a while. So I can't say if we've seen the bottom yet. Is it question speculators to why the bear will do such a thing? Why would someone sell so many coins at one time at such a low price? Andres Antonopoulos. Well, there's a lot of speculation. One of the things to remember is that US taxes are due October 15th. So like many other people in the community, I am selling Bitcoin at the moment in order to pay my US dollar taxes because I did search on the IRS webpage for the pay with Bitcoin button. So I could pay to the one IRS has your money address. But there wasn't one. And so apparently I have to convert my beautiful digital money into a green cotton based currency and pay that way. And that's going to cause some selling pressure. So that's my guess. Paying taxes. Blake Anderson. Well, I think that there's a lot of different reasons. I think that like I was saying, if there's going to be a lot of sell pressure coming from miners because the hash rate has really, really taken off that that could be it. But I think that it would be fun to go really deep into the what if bag and say maybe some of these asick producers that were running their machines not on test nets like they were advertising and they were doing burning for their asick machines and they were mining Bitcoin. Maybe one of them was like, oh, eyes are starting to snoop around. Let me offload all these Bitcoin as quickly as I possibly can in the bear whale. It might be that. I don't know. That's what happened, but speculation is always fun. And it's always fun to deeper into the what if bag you go. It happened to butterfly labs. It could happen to us, Marshall Hainer. I think Tim Draper just got really nervous and he was like, there's a bad investment sell, sell, sell, sell. Not just kidding. I think that you see all of the coins moving out of there. It's been over a year since the coins were in there. I think it probably was just somebody that got a little bit nervous had a weak hand. He couldn't hold all. So I think that's $6 million instead of $18 million. Not a very good trade. Megan Lords. So I've been saying a lot of claims of maybe this is an act of manipulation. And I think it's important to keep that in mind that this is a small market that's still small enough to very easily manipulate. But I think a more reasonable thing is this person just needed to sell these coins and they got very nervous when they saw the price dropping. So I'm going to stick with that. I don't know. Of course, I can't speak to this person personally and what their incentives were. But I think maybe they were just scared and wanted to sell. I do agree with the other speculation that to sell so many coins in one order, it clearly sounds like a computer science type person unfamiliar with trading, just willing to dump them all. Even splitting them into a $1,000 chunks or $10,000 chunks would have netted a lot more money. It just seems like an incredible move. But that's Bitcoin moving on. Issue two. We move on. Hang on. I have a request to make. Can we get someone to work on a bear whale jingle, which combines the roar of a bear and the whale song? Because we need the jingle. There's a beautiful visual. We've got the visual. We need the sound bite now. So someone should start working on that right away. We need the bear whale sound. Bear whale wrapping. I could see something going down. It's right for you. Ready to go. We'll move on anyway. Issue two. Bitcoin startup funding continues to grow. Blockchain.info, though popular Bitcoin wallet providers, scored $30 million in funding from light speed ventures this week. Bitcoin fury that manufactures asick chips for Bitcoin mining picked up $20 million from major players, such as the former CFO of Vodafone and the co-founder of Google Maps. Despite the market price of Bitcoin being down in the dumps, what do these investors know that other investors don't? I ask you, Blake Anderson. I know that Bitcoin is one of the only large mining operations that is really not almost completely insolvent right now. Bitcoin has several different advantages that others don't have. So if we're going to see investment into various different mining operations, this would be the one. I think that the venture capitalists did their homework. If we want to continue to have a strong hash rate, I think it's important to keep infrastructure in mind. I don't want to say too much because I think that I know some special things about this that I'm not a liberty to say, but I'll have an unusually brief answer here, I guess. Marshall, hey. I think it's interesting. It makes sense because these are some of the largest investments in the Bitcoin space and these are two of the largest players in the Bitcoin space. It makes sense that we should be building infrastructure around Bitcoin. Like Blake said, I think that Bitfury is one of the few mining companies that's not insolvent or having all these consumer complaints against them. It makes me happy to see at least one mining company is doing it right. I'm glad that they got the money and not Butterfly Labs. Megan, Lord. I think these people are focusing on the bigger picture with Bitcoin and they realize the value that the technology has beyond it being a currency. Despite the low price currently, that's not scaring them away from it. I think they've done their research and they're really looking at the big picture and seeing it for what it is, which is an extremely valuable technology that we're going to see have some long term effects. So, yeah, I think they're informed. They've done their homework and I don't think they know anything we don't know necessarily. They're enthusiastic about it and I think that's really great news. And, Jraz, that's an obelisk. Well, most of these investors are looking at a horizon of at least three to five years for a return on investments here. They've got a return variations in the Bitcoin price or hysteria over bear whales and ridiculous things like that. Really don't affect their investment outlook. They look at the fundamentals of this technology and they see something that has the potential of significantly disrupting several very, very large industries that regularly are praised in the order of several hundred billion dollars. From that perspective, these little scrappy startups are great opportunities. Another way to look at this is that in many cases, these investors will be investing dollars in many of these Bitcoin companies are capitalized in Bitcoin, which means that now is the perfect time to make that conversion. For example, blockchain that operated as a Bitcoin only business for many, many years now can potentially get twice as much Bitcoin at the current rate than they would have if they capitalized this just through four months ago. And so for them, that's a great advantage. Looking forward to see what a little scrappy startup like blockchain can do, a company that managed to do some quite amazing things in this space with very, very little money. This is their first round of finance. And what they can do now is with 30 million dollars. So I'm very excited and congratulations to the blockchain team that I was part of. I've got many good friends there and very excited to see the future. Very exciting. Did you know the world crypto network thanks to the hard work of Mr. Chris Ellis and the intrepid reporting of James Bang have been covering the occupied central pro democracy protests in Hong Kong live from Hong Kong. Thanks to Bitcoin donations, James was also able to purchase hundreds of dollars worth of dim sum, which was given directly to the protesters live on the world crypto network. The world crypto network is literally creating the future of journalism on the internet. Get involved today at worldcryptonenetwork.com. Issue 3. The Bitcoin Foundation attempts to negotiate with Super Nintendo Lossky in his inflexible bit license. Demanding access to the NYDFS is still unavailable extensive research and analysis, which they already promised they would provide within 20 days. But are now promising to deliver well after the comment period is over. The Bitcoin Foundation warns that the bit license would force businesses to cut off New York from their services, something that several Bitcoin companies such as Zappo and Circle have already promised to do, as well as costing the state of New York jobs, as Bitcoin companies plea the state, which also already happened. To say nothing of the fact that because Bitcoin contains a communicative element, the very attempt to regulate could be unconstitutional under First Amendment grounds. Does the emperor have no clothes? Is Ben Lossky's bit license more about protecting the banks and less about protecting consumers? I ask you, Marshall Hainer. I think it's interesting what's happening with bit license. I think a lot of Bitcoin companies are very nervous about it. I think that it's good that the Bitcoin Foundation is reaching out and basically asking for these questions because not really many people are. We definitely need to understand what's going on and what's going to happen in terms of regulation for Bitcoin. Will they necessarily respond to this? Will they respond to the Great Bitcoin Foundation? Megan Lord. I guess I feel bad for people who believed Ben Lossky that he would actually provide this information before the end of the commenting period because I just can't trust anything these people say. I think they're going to go for the hardest hitting regulations they can. I think the backlash of that is going to be Bitcoin companies moving away from New York. That's really unfortunate for the people living in New York. I think that's terrible. I think that Ben Lossky is probably going to go forward with these. It doesn't matter who comments or how many comments are made about it. I don't think the Bitcoin Foundation does a lot to lobby for pro Bitcoin things. I think they're very involved in space and they're very actively trying to be a voice for Bitcoiners. But they don't have to listen is the thing. Ben Lossky doesn't have to listen. There's really no incentive for him to listen. I think this really is about protecting the banks just like all regulation is. I think a lot of the people on this panel were paying attention to a couple weeks ago when the golden sacks tapes were released. We saw what an object failure regulation is because the people who are on the regulatory side are intertwined with the banks and the bankers. There's no incentive for them to actually protect consumers. I think you're seeing the same thing with Bitcoin. I think they realize that it's a threat at this point. I think that they are trying to stop it. I think the less they understand it, the better. I want them to pass these regulations with very little understanding and very little look into Bitcoin because I think they'll be less effective that way. I think it's unfortunate. I really think he's really going to try to bring the hammer down on this. We'll see, but I think Bitcoin will persevere regardless. It's just a matter of we have to take a realistic look at this. I think to trust the Ben Lossky or any of the other people want to hardcore regulate Bitcoin or on our side at all or even care what we have to say about it is a little unrealistic. Oh, come on Ben Lossky did a Reddit AMA. We can trust him. He's just like one of us. Yeah. He's got an account just like you and me. Right, Andrea? I'm going to take a slightly contraire and position here and say that the bit licenses is bad news. It's very bad news. It's very bad news for the financial institutions that will not be able to move from New York that will not be able to exclude New York customers that will not be able to be nimble that will not be able to adapt to these draconian measures and will therefore be excluded from competing in this exciting news fair. And those financial institutions are the banks that are based in New York. The bit license essentially will affect them even more than it affects the Bitcoin companies because it will make them compete against Bitcoin from a fixed base of operations that they have in New York that they cannot avoid that they're not flexible enough to route around that they can't relocate. And that base of operations will be compromised by regulations that require Bitcoin to be centralized to be laden with identity to be made as vulnerable and insecure as credit cards to be slowed down and pacified, neutered and defanged and turned into lukewarm piss and we already have that to New York and it's called JP Morgan Chase and quite honestly they're not going to be able to participate in this exciting new technology. The end of the day if this had happened on the internet and the FCC had regulated licenses it would have been the big American telecom companies that would have lost out while the internet happened somewhere else. And now what New York will do is it will tie the hands of the New York banks and make it impossible for them to compete against these new nimble competitors. Blake Anderson. I usually whenever we talk about superintendents I'm sorry super Nintendo, Loskey. I like to jump back to the basics about what is regulation? What is this word that we're using? Is regulation not supposed to be a standardized set of practices and policies that are developed in bilateral communications through companies in an industry to make it so that consumers are protected and so that risk is mitigated. Regulation doesn't seem like something that an unelected bureaucrat should be able to unilaterally force on people amputating the financial hand of the west in New York. I think that from an information science and logic perspective this is just so assinine that I don't know what Loskey thinks he's doing and I don't know why they would be talking about Bitcoin in the way that they are. They were going to be talking about the regulation of custodial accounts or something where in you know this is how you're going to handle things not really dealing with Bitcoin but the legacy system having the legacy regulation has been set up. I mean that's one thing but to talk about you know we're going to force changes into Bitcoin or you know punish people in New York it just seems it's batshit crazy. It's really insane and it's really kind of not comical but just like a train wreck that you can't look away from. The future of Bitcoin in an entire state is up to one man ain't democracy grand marshal Hainer. I think you know I'd like to just add that here in Palo Alto and San Francisco we have beautiful weather year round so if you're in decrypto come visit us out here. You know I've been hearing a lot I'd like to add my prediction right now I've been hearing scuttle but and you can find a. The NSA strikes again there that action on several Bitcoin companies and I've been hearing it for a while but I guess we'll see it's definitely made it's. You're breaking up in and out. It might be all protesting through to the people at home we're not sure. All right we'll just keep going yes Megan lords. Yeah I think this is really really again the bit license regulation is they say it's just really horrible for the people who are wanting to do business and view this as an opportunity to break into a new industry that I think is going to be rapidly growing in the next few years it's it's really bad news and it's something again I don't know really can be stopped with commenting not to say that you shouldn't be commenting and you shouldn't you know what I'm saying. Something to them you know I encourage any kind of activism of definitely I guess a diversity of tactics person you know just go out there say something about it but again like I. I just don't know that they're going to listen and I really hope other states don't follow suit I really hope this is just a New York specific. Situation you know I really don't think I think it'll be an interesting experiment to see after the regulations go into place because I think that there's going to be very little give on the regulations will definitely see you know what happens on economic level and I hope that other states will be able to look at that realize that it's not their best interest to be regulating this technology. It's like the entire state of New York has chosen to use pipe writers instead of computers was actually so the Vladimir Poo. Exit question the bit license proposal will be released with substantial changes unchanged or will it be withdrawn and dress and monopolist. I think it will be released with some changes but the fundamental framework of that license regulation which is to attempt to centralize Bitcoin to make it more like a banking system even though it's redeeming and most interesting features that it's not the banking feature to add identity to a system that not only doesn't need it but which decentralizes risks by avoiding revealing identities on every transaction. And to give those identities to the same intermediaries who lose 50 to 60 identity 50 to 60 million identities every month or so all of that is not going to be watered down that is going to remain into the in the legislation because these regulations are designed to make Bitcoin behave like a banking institution and that really misses the point completely. You can't change that that reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of what Bitcoin is how it works and more importantly why it's special what things about it are special because it's removing exactly these my prediction is that the bit license will be equivalent and will go down in history just the same as the red flag act. A law that was passed in 1896 in Britain requiring that every automobile was preceded by a flagman waving a red flag to warn pedestrians that a car was coming just like the bit license what it did was it turned the technology that had the potential to be faster than pedestrians into one that had to follow a pedestrian therefore diluting the very value of that technology set the automotive industry in the UK back by 20 years by which point they lost the race. Blake Anderson. That was such a great example that I that I've lost my train of thought what were we talking about unchanged substantial changes or withdrawn. I think that there'll be substantial changes that were made I think that that's the point of the comment period I don't think that the substantial changes will be in our favor but I think that it will be substantial changes probably for the worst. That's great news it could get worse not even an off marshal Hainer. I really like Andreas's example of the red flag because I think that's kind of what's happening here what we're seeing is this heavy handed regulation coming down and then Ben Lossi comes on reddit and says oh you know guys I'm one of you I want to hear what your input is and then we meet somewhere in the middle which is really bad. I think it's going to it's going to damage jobs in New York it's going to keep people from creating new startups it's going to keep investors out of the space. A good compromise is where I have a smart thing to do and. I might have cut out there for a second. Do I have this good try. I didn't fit Megan lords will it be released with substantial changes unchanged or withdrawn. I think if there are any there are any changes there'll be slight changes and probably for the worst I tend to agree with Blake on this I think the more they understand the technology the more they realize in what efficient ways they can regulate it and I think that's really bad for everyone and you know maybe this is kind of strange but I think people should stop. Talking to them and educating them about it not from like maybe a personal level like I want everyone to understand Bitcoin right but the more they kind of understand it the better they'll be able to regulate it and really crush it and really create a situation that's much worse than it really would have been otherwise so if there are any changes I think they'll be slight and probably not for the best I think you know while they don't care about the commentary on the. The bit license they probably they do care more about understanding it so that they can regulated better so I think that's that's a kind of a dangerous combination you know and they're already really really bad as they stand I wouldn't be surprised if maybe they were just passed as they already are you know with no changes because I really is pretty bad enough. pessimists all of you I'm sure Ben Loskey's watching this right now his heart's going to grow ten sizes and he'll change his mind you know how I know because he follows me on Twitter he must be one. Issue 4 Bitcoin could save journalism and the arts a glowing article from Walter Isaacson author of the Steve Jobs biography and former managing editor of Time magazine claims that Bitcoin micro payments could truly help the internet live up to its full potential and literally save both journalism and the arts by providing frictionless nanotransactions the ability for a million people to send in a million pennies and thanks to Bitcoin that's a great thing. That money will not be eaten up by transaction fees could Bitcoin truly usher in a new renaissance where content providers are paid directly by their audience and not by advertisers and middlemen Megan lords. So this is something I've been thinking about for a while now and I'm glad someone finally verbalized it into such a concise article that's just really I really thought he drove at home with this article. I definitely agree with it. You know it's very hard to make a living writing or in the arts of any kind these days and I think that having the ability to send small amounts of we're already doing it in the space things like change tip and even what the world crypto network is doing you know where it's becoming easier and easier to to tip people I mean with Bitcoin people are already doing it in the Bitcoin space it's just a matter of getting this message out to people which is why I was so happy to see it on the internet. I think that's a great time because tons of people read time who aren't in the tech and I think that's great when they see that there's this application that they can use that they don't necessarily have to understand the technology behind Bitcoin it makes it very easy for them to accept payments and if you're a struggling artist or writer or anything like that. It's so easy to just be able to put up a little QR code next to your PayPal donate button on your site and have people donate that way people are already been pretty successful and fundraising for different projects with Bitcoin too. So I'm really glad that someone vocalized it outside of the kind of Bitcoin space because I you know they even used to quote from an author of Bitcoin magazine which Bitcoin magazine has really been on this too they've published numerous articles saying along the same things. Really and I'm glad to see it kind of reach a broader audience because when you had this economic crisis one of the things that suffered the most I think was arts it's very very hard and a lot of the musicians I know and other writers I know they're struggling right now if that's their main profession and I've been telling them about it for a while now like Bitcoin is something you can use to kind of help out a little bit maybe you know maybe you can't make a living with it right now but there's future potential there so I was really happy to see that. I completely agree because those professions are really one of the hardest to be successful in so thank you Walter Isaacson for finally saying that and getting it out there. And change tip is a great way for non technical people to accept Bitcoin and try it out and if you have a camera camera phone it also has a microphone on it and you're instantly a reporter no matter where you are and we can send you money to support you and this isn't just a story. This isn't just a story. This is what's happening this week live from Hong Kong on the world crypto network so it's already starting to happen. It's great for active. Sorry. All right and jazz into Nophilus. Megan was just about says great for activism you're absolutely right the concept of an empowered citizen journalist who can bypass intermediaries and appeal directly to an audience is incredibly powerful and part of the reason it's powerful is because when your financing depends on these intermediaries who act as aggregators of content they start imposing filtering and editorial control over the content in order to appease advertisers in the world. So this is a great way to advertise advertisers instead of serving their audience and as a result what you get is the corporate approved water down version of news slash infotainment that we see on TV today or even that we see in the New York Times today. So this is something that at least the people that let's talk Bitcoin where I've been doing work in content for more than a year now have seen and applied in practice and that experiment has been tremendously effective Bitcoin will not only save journalism and content creation and the arts. So I think that's a great way to fund infrastructure on the internet that today has to either be free or advertisers supported at very very thick granularity if you like where you have to pay a subscription or you have to pay 1295 a day to get Wi-Fi in order to compensate for some of the costs of infrastructure. So in nano payments will influence the growth of the internet will fuel new forms of growth on the internet in order to bring banking services the world to grow the infrastructure will grow mesh networks it will grow peer to peer communities and protocols and it will also fuel journalism and content creation on the internet like we've never seen before. So the internet created Bitcoin and now Bitcoin is going to turn around and turbocharged the internet and finally the mainstream media are beginning to see this it is a really historic moment. A great example of the media being controlled by advertising recently is the John Oliver show John Oliver is now on HBO so unlike the daily show is not controlled by advertising so he was able to do an incredible hit piece on payday loans that the daily show never could do because all the late night advertising on poverty central is payday loans Blake Anderson. Yeah I agree and I think that that's a great example that you brought up with the payday loans because that has become you know not good the interest rates and the payday loans if you're not familiar with that scandal are camera goes out which is always fun. And just listen to me talk. It's really really really great to see the arts kind of come back because as we were saying before the arts being crutch. Some schools in my areas don't even have music and PE anymore if you didn't have music and PE school I think I would have lost my mind Marshall Hader you still there. Yeah hopefully I don't cut out this time but I'm having some technical issues over here so yeah I this is something that really means a lot to me the ability to have these micro payments for the arts for music for entertainment there's a fundamental problem in the recording industry and the motion picture industry right now and that is you know I guess you could say they just don't have the right models anymore people don't shop at record stores we don't go and pay twenty dollars a CD anymore it's ninety nine cents a song and we do it all online. And so I think you know if we can have these micro payments and dogecoin is a perfect example of what we see on reddit with these these micro payments in the power of of tiny payments and what we can do with that you know I don't have a problem paying fifty doge for every awesome article I read on the internet every day. And the dogecoin is really spread the tips around exit question how long will it take before Bitcoin nano payments can truly catch on six months a year more than that Megan lords. Man I'm terrible at this prediction things well it's already being used by people in this face which I think is really good and I think it's just going to grow from there and really spread out you know I it's hard to put an exact number on it it really is things seem to move so fast in Bitcoin and then you kind of step outside the bubble and you realize how hard it is for people to kind of jump on with you so I can't really I don't have a problem with that. I think it's not an exact number for that sorry I hope it's very soon though I have been talking and I talk to a lot of my artists friends a lot probably the most about Bitcoin trying to encourage them to take Bitcoin for that very reason so I think I you know I will say once people start seeing the price kind of heading up that will probably incentivize them to look more into it and you know the more the more media rights about it too. We'll have an influence on that so it all depends on on those things I think. And dress and to not less. I think we're going to see a significant impacts in the media at least in niche sites within about a year it's probably going to take two to three years until you see this having an impact on mainstream sites I'm looking forward to the day that YouTube makes it easier. Or just kind of endorses facilitates and brings the attention of content providers the ability to pay and get paid by Bitcoin and collect revenue that way. And then I think you're going to start seeing it in in other platforms too but there is also the possibility that these and I hate this is a really funny term to use these legacy providers and I'm talking about a company that's only been around for less than a decade. And the legacy providers of content services may in many cases become leapfrog they may end up getting bypassed by a newer more versatile incumbent that uses Bitcoin as a way to differentiate and just completely bypasses YouTube and becomes the next instance so YouTube becomes the my space of video and the killer feature the killer app that makes the difference for a new competitor is something like Bitcoin. I think we're just going to we're in for a lot of surprises in this space and it's very difficult to make timeline predictions but whatever your timeline prediction is I think the thing I've learned over the years watching technologies that always happens faster than you imagine. It's a great prediction Blake Anderson how long will it take before Bitcoin nano payments catch on six months a year more than that. Well I have to kind of ride on under this coat tails here and say that I have been shocked by the speed of progress in the Bitcoin space I got involved with Bitcoin when it was in the single digits and the things that we can already do with it and the things that we have and the speed at which colored coins and various different theories that maybe we're only talked about in IRC have actually come to bear I mean it's been a it's been a light speed ride so I'd say you know. Whatever the briefest time span you can imagine cut that in half. Marshall Hainer. I always say that everything in the Bitcoin space moves about like five to seven times faster than regular tech so I was going to guess like five years but I'd say within the next year I mean you look at doge tip bot change tip all these services they're just kind of getting started now and I think we're going to see over the next couple of years just massive adoption. Oh before I forgot Reddit that is probably where we're going to see it because if you got everyone's been following the news Reddit just got $55 million of funding and we're going to take some of that and put it back into Reddit in the form some sort of crypto token and I think that could jump start this whole economy. I have one thing to add on the back of this Reddit thing and you're very right I think but we tend to think that Bitcoin adoption will happen first and then because people will have Bitcoin they'll find a place where they can spend it on content with nano payments etc it's not going to happen that way it's going to happen backwards what will happen is a site will make nano payments so popular that people will go. And buy Bitcoin just so they can use it on this site so it's the killer app precedes the use of currency we're not going to have to wait until everybody has Bitcoin and then they'll say well what can I spend it on let me spend it on this they're going to find the killer app and the killer app is going to be the reason they go out and buy Bitcoin. The answer is six months or until I get Jenna marbles to accept Bitcoin Jenna take my tips moving on to questions and answers we've got a comment from spotted Marley he says the only place they can effectively regulate is where Bitcoin meets fiat correct Chad crypto rights the internet connections are going insane in the past few weeks good to see your sound is better Thomas and Megan and I'm sure he's saying a condolence. And I think the answer is to Blake and Marshall as sound problems continue I have I have a super computer it's an overclocked I said and I have a fiber optic business connection have the most expensive webcam ever at never ever ever goes down ever unless I'm on this show and especially after I talked about the JP chase. I'm so I wanted to be paranoid breaking up again breaking up again next question. Loskey is here to fud out old money that might be considering Bitcoin and run into the hands of JP Morgan's cooked books like the IPO of Ali Baba in my strategic opinion scaring the rich sheep and pissing a pissing us off is his job. Very well said Armando got another comment from Armando the bear well is a group of traders shaking price down to bring in their new homeboy is network until the market cap goes up the big holders are going to consolidate ownership more and more just like this. That could be very true what is the panel think any final thoughts on the bear well and possible conspiracy and dress. Well I don't know I think it's I think it's absolutely futile and also is a disservice to our audience to try to read the tea leaves of the dynamic market the interplay between supply and demand on a market as complex as global and in many cases with low liquidity and the kind of bounce back effect that creates in the market. This is a market where the tea leaves are telling us nothing and to even try to read them to do not give people the false impression that there is any rational basis for movements or decisions made in this market it's 80% speculative sentiment 20% blowback from the latest media story and the rest of it which adds up to more than 100% is pure. It's pure pure chaos theory in action. That's true I was so disappointed the news kept being good and the price wouldn't go up and I said we keep feeding it good news and nothing happens. Blake Anderson bear well conspiracy. I think I went pretty deep into the what if the advice saying that the A6 that we're mining maybe you know one of the eruders but I don't I don't know that it's just you know it's fun to say what if. I don't know I think that as Andreas was saying before if you have an investment horizon of four or five years these things tend to to not be as important so you know get your investment horizons in line and you won't have to worry too much about stuff like this. Marshall Hainer are you the bear well you caught me yeah I agree with Andreas that I think we have some of the smartest minds in Bitcoin right here. This panel right now and not a single one of us including myself is terrible saying oh this is definitely what it is I think it's silly to speculate and going back to earlier in the show don't invest anything in Bitcoin that you can't afford to lose I would say don't invest more than two percent of your net worth if you're you know or your investment money into Bitcoin spread your stuff out but Bitcoin is an amazing technology I think it's here to stay. Megan Lawrence tell us definitely who the bear well is. Well I'm not going to pretend I can say it better than any of the other panelists so I'm just going to say I agree with everything they said already. Moving on to predictions or story of the week this is the part where I ask you to predict the future or provide a story of the week and Andreas and to Nopolis always goes first. And as always I am unprepared I think we're going to be seeing more and more investment rounds and startups in this space I predicted the beginning of the year 2014 that this was going to be the year of the platform where we start seeing applications above and beyond exchanges above and beyond simple wallets and we start seeing the next wave of applications. So I think we're going to start seeing investments where the Bitcoin blockchain technology is used as an application platform well those companies have already produced products they've already produced ideas and prototypes and I think we're going to start seeing investments in those companies now so get ready for a rash of investments into the so called 2.0 platform and various application companies building on top of blockchain technology. So I think that's on counter party in the recent announcement that was made in Vegas in collaboration with over stock. Well the only thought I have there is that if you if you have studied to the history of Patrick earn and what will the incredible criminality that Wall Street exhibited in his companies IPO as well as the criminality that he discovered in naked shorts and various other. Tools that are used by Wall Street to rig the market and ensure that the house always wins you know what better way to stick it to the man than to build a completely decentralized network based peer to peer exchange that obsulates your entire industry all the power to am I hope he succeeds. Blake Anderson. Well my prediction is I'm going to have to play play a mockingbird and go back with my other prediction with the JP Morgan chase with their giant giant hack. It's going to happen more and there's going to be more damage the fallout from the JP Morgan chase hack about 70 million accounts that we know of you know have been compromised. It sounded to me when I read the report I'm an information technologist I've worked in math security for Fortune 25 financial institutions. It sounds like to me that their software search server was completely compromised and when you have your software certification servers compromised the place that's big. It's just a massive disaster and if we continue to go in the opposite direction with regulation it's going to happen more often and it's going to be worse and worse. The prediction is that look out for more of these centralized institutions to get hacked and for a lot more fallout to come as a result of it in the future. And they hacked more than 400 dairy queen and orange Julius Marshall Hainer. These are all really great predictions. I would have to say my prediction I mentioned it earlier in the show I've been hearing it for a while that there is enforcement action potentially coming down on some of these bigger guys. Coinbase and circle they make sure to mention that they are financially insured and that's that's kind of a selling point for their consumers. I think that that might be causing some problems with the FDIC and other federal agencies that are you know have been looking at the space for a while and are saying that they're going to come down on it. But if you see on my Twitter there's a little there's a little IRC or Skype chat that was going on between some other crypto people and they're talking about it. So that's my prediction beginning of November something big is going to happen in terms of enforcement actions. Somebody else just said that to me today in a conversation right before this so I've heard that as well. A November surprise Megan Lord. I know you think I'm a pessimist sometimes Thomas but I have a really good feel good story of the week. So I just finished out with coins in the kingdom this past weekend and it went really well. There was a lot of stress right before it you know the price being down it kind of bummed a lot of people out but the conference went really well. It's one of my favorite I've been to it's very intimate experience and I just had a really awesome time and a lot of people probably heard about the blockchain wedding that took place there. But for me that was not the coolest thing that happened. So Jason King gave a talk where he revealed he's been working on a new app that would basically decentralized homeless outreach. So the app is really interesting you open it up and it's got two buttons give a meal or get a meal. So I don't know how many people on this panel or in the audience have been you know maybe sitting in your house maybe you have too much you know food that you're not going to eat maybe you just finished up at a restaurant you have some extra food or you want to give food away to someone and maybe you can't meet. You can't meet up with the food not bombs people who were doing their weekly or you know a couple times a week food sharing. Program so basically what this would do is allow anyone to sign to the app and give food to people in need and also not a lot of people realize this but smart phones are pretty easily accessible to people who are unbanked or even homeless people and this will allow them to look for look for people who are offering food. They could say hey I need a meal I can't make it to you know food up bombs or chance outpost or whoever in your areas is making food food on a regular basis. So this allows individuals to meet up with individuals and get their needs bet and I think this is amazing I think this is really going to revolutionize the way that we we work on this problem because up until now it's been fairly centralized approaches you know even with chance outpost even with you know what they do is as far as delivering meals to the homeless people you know you're you're they've had to do a lot of work and finding everyone because if homeless is criminalized you're going to have people hiding who don't want their camps being found by the authorities. So you have a lot of people who could really benefit from benefit from this technology so he told me that and I mean it's just the most I think it's a great idea and you know it's still being developed so I think we'll be seeing it come out in the next couple of months. So keep an eye for that and you know I think it's the great tool for activism and if homeless outreach is something that you really care about this is going to be really big for people and I really hope that it catches on in a big way because this this is great for even people who aren't into activism. And this is a very easy simple approach to helping people who are really in need who maybe slip through the cracks and things like that so that's my feel good story of the week. Sounds like a very exciting app looking forward to it prediction Bitcoin is not dead. The media is having a field day writing about the price drop but they don't know what to make of blockchain and bitfury raising tens of millions of dollars at the same time. A reason article speculates that perhaps Bitcoiners who have been studying cryptocurrency and truly understand it no more about the future as a result of their study. The speculation is correct Bitcoin is the future regardless of the price we are not done we're not stopping this is not over not by a long shot up right of time until next time bye bye.