The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last ten seconds, the sharpest satosis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Blake Anderson from Facebook.com slash God Blake. Hi everyone, thanks for having me on. Price Weiner from Block Tech Financial. Always a pleasure, thank you again. David Seaman from the David Seaman Hour. Hey everybody. And I'm Todd Zhunt from Matt Bitcoins. Had to read that one off the script. Moving on to issue one, JP Morgan Chase Cyber Attack affects 76 million bank accounts. At first it was just retail establishments like Home Depot, Target, and Marshalls getting hacked. But now it's one of the largest banks in the world, JP Morgan Chase. In this new digital age, is your money really safe in the bank? Blake Anderson. Well, I actually wrote an article not that long ago on May 12th and it was about the new age and language of value and security and I basically predicted something like this would happen. And it happens as a result of the fact that we have these basically zero-rate-esque information systems which are really, really, really fast and responsive but are really vulnerable to complete an absolute failure. And what we have here with the size of this breach here affecting this many people is we have a situation to kind of let's say you have a computer and you want to put Bitcoins on it. You need to know that that computer is secure, probably offline with everything that you installed on it known to you before you do so. And now you have a giant financial institution that has had their servers penetrated these various different, you know, mouth-based parties had administrative access to what sounds like their software certification servers and an ITIL consistent environment in Fortune 25 Finance. When you have your certification system compromised, that's really bad. And to me, it would almost dictate that until there's some giant kind of reorganization at this bank that you shouldn't put your money with this bank anymore, I would not trust them with your information. It's a harsh response but risk management warrants one and this is a big deal. I think it speaks volumes for the need for Bitcoin and decentralization and financial security. Bryce Weiner. I think it's a huge deal. I mean, this is tremendous. This is, you know, 76 million households. These are just people. And you can't, I agree with Blake completely. You can't have this kind of behavior and have to trust your finance to that sort of institution simply because there is no alternative. There absolutely needs to be alternatives. And if anything, this is a reason for it. And just because it's blockchain based doesn't mean that it's not vulnerable to the same sorts of things. Even a blockchain based company that stores your data in any kind of traditional server can be taken advantage of and have that data compromised. And when that happens, boy, that's when things just get ugly. David Seaman. Yeah, these banks are, you know, in-house ledger systems that have, you know, the technical under the hood stuff is like 30, 40 years behind where everything else and technology in the world is at. And I think that consumers and corporations are starting to pick up on that. Like just how shitty these banks are in every single respect. Just even down to the small details. In fact, they don't have any taste. Like when you go into an ATM vest duel in Los Angeles, it tends to be really hot in there if they don't pump the air conditioning in. And the second the bank closes at 5 p.m. or whatever they stop doing that because they're cheap to fuck. And those machines get hot. And people are literally sweating like something out of Don Fez and Ferno as they're trying to pull their little rectangles of paper out. So I think this 76 million headline is just more proof that these banks are totally incompetent. They're like the DMV of financial services. And the ATM machines have even gotten worse. Now that they're running windows, they have all these displays. It's actually slower than the old machines when you're trying to get your money out with the old green screens. It was a lot simpler than moving on. Issue two. Expert witness for the Silk Road suggests that the FBI lied about how they accessed back and servers. How did the FBI really find the address for the Silk Road server in Iceland? Did they illegally hack the Silk Road or did they use the shadowy powers of the NSA to settle the score? Either way, you can't have a legal case if you used illegal means to gain evidence. The law is the law. I ask you, Bryce Weiner, did the FBI break the law to take down the Silk Road? What's breaking the law really? You know? I mean, we live in a world where of the US Patriot Act, which in and of itself is quite frankly a law that breaks the law. So when you say that they broke the law, if you get into this just strange wonderland of reality, you know, whatever. They did what they wanted to do because they wanted to shut down an illegal black market that was selling guns and coke. That's it. And they really didn't care one way or the other. And I honestly got to tell you, I think that they wanted to take it down because it was competition for quite frankly the CIA. And because nobody moves the biggest drug dealer in the world as our federal government. And they didn't just dial it. I think they just simply didn't like that competition. So I think more likely than the NSA is the CIA because they actually have invested financial interest to do so. The CIA's got, the NSA's got budgets like everybody else does. You have to do all kinds of stuff to get them to move. But the CIA didn't get further. They just do it because it's cut. I mean, it was like eight billion dollars of money being moved on Silk Road and the CIA didn't get a cut on any of that. That's got to piss them off. You know how the government hates competition. And of course the poppy crop in Afghanistan was closing down before we invaded. But fortunately we got those numbers back up. We actually gave them money for their interdiction efforts before we invaded. So we bought their guns for them. Yeah. The all don't steal the government hates competition arguments. I like that spin on their tongue. It's very good. David Seaman. Yeah, I don't know exactly where to come at this that hasn't already been said. I think that things like parallel construction we know that it exists. And it seems like once you end up on somebody shitless, whether it be a kid at MIT, you happens to have co-founded Reddit, although I didn't actually co-founded. But Aaron Swartz, they just went after him and used the CFA and this really weird kind of way. So is Bryce is saying when it comes to the law, the rules are definitely different if you happen to be the federal government going after a website of any kind. It's very unfortunate what happened to Aaron Swartz. Blake Anderson. Yeah, I mean the agency that Bryce was talking about and the material interest that they have in a quashing out competition. I think it's a very real risk. And I do think to answer the original question, did the authorities violate the Fourth Amendment in their investigations that involved the Silk Road? And I think, yeah, it's incontrovertible. Of course they did. I mean, why wouldn't they? There is not a lot that a paper that claims to reel in the overreach of government can really do. We have executive judicial legislative branches of government that are supposed to be distributed so that they can't get too much power, but they've been basically working in concert. And so we have a giant system where in the government can do and say whatever it wants and a reflexive justification of who their enemies are and they can go after people in a system where they have selective enforcement and people break more laws than they can know the names for. And I mean, this is bad. This is a landmark case. And it's not good. I think it's definitely violation of the Fourth Amendment. It's definitely a negative landmark. Exit question, do the ends justify the means should the FBI have broken the law to take down the Silk Road? Bryce Weiner. Well, this is a larger issue of economic censorship and the government dictating what it is that we can't do in a good friend of mine who passed away a few years ago, Gatewood Gaborth, he says, the government has no business in our backyards, bedrooms, bathrooms, or blood streams. And I went and had our bank accounts to that now. And that sort of intrusion into and dictation of our freedoms as to what we can and cannot spend our money on, I think is going to be the next real battleground for libertarians. But we can all get high now pretty much in one third of the country. So that battle is won. So the next battle is what we are allowed to spend our money on. David Seaman. Yeah, I mean, the public still doesn't really get this argument. I think that's part of why the price is where it is is that they assume there's some kind of financial privacy when you're using a credit card or anything like that. And we all know about suspicious activity reports. And you just want to move like $8,000 out of one of your accounts and walk across the street to the other bank company, the other big three, and deposit that money so you avoid $5 fee or $10 cash years to check fee or some shit. You just want to do it with the old fashioned way. They get nervous sometimes bank tellers if you ask for a decent amount of money, you can see on their face. They go, oh, I got to file some shit now. And I think people are really waking up to this post 9-11 new paradigm that just doesn't really make sense. It doesn't even, do the ends justify the means? No. And should they break the law to get something? No, they shouldn't because these things are going to happen anyways. People are going to buy and sell. They're going to buy and sell if they want to buy and sell. And people want all three states of consciousness and people want whatever else they're selling on the silk road. So if they broke the law, I'm not in favor of that. I talked to a bank regulator recently and he said a lot of banks were trying to cover their assets and they were over filing these suspicious activity reports. And the Fed actually came back to them and said, stop that. Stop over filing. Stop trying to protect yourself. So there's really no way to win. And even the regulators themselves don't know what to do. They can't print, they themselves feel like they're on trial in these systems. Yeah. I mean, this is one of those cases where crypto changes everything, having a blockchain. I think even the banks that are, I don't think there are any smart banks that there were, your costs are going to go down. And then you're not subject to the same kinds of regulation in certain ways. And I think whoever innovates around that, if you can leverage all the branches you already have, that bank might actually survive and become something really bizarre and supernatural in nature. And the other ones that are too stupid are just going to become blockbusters. It's going to be brutal, I think. It is. Blake Anderson. Well, yeah, I mean, I walk around like a mockingbird constantly repeating the ends to not justify the means. I have it as basically one of a headline pinned posts on my Twitter feed. I mean, one of the oldest lessons in history that we're still learning is the ends do not and cannot justify the means. What your goal is is not justified by what you do to get there. Like, if you want to build a hospital, you're not justified in putting guns to people's head and having them build the hospital. And oh, we had to execute it if you were lazy people. But look at this giant hospital that we built. I mean, you can't do that. It's a scene. So there's a whole bunch of information science arguments that can be made taking that logic and applying it to other different things. And now the ends do not justify the means. And I think that Bitcoin is the greatest risk management and mitigation system ever made in the ability for what's happened in the ledger to be accounted for, you know, okay, well, this money went here, this value went here, an actual, immutable ledger of value that is historically accurate to various different things. I mean, the help that that could bring to human action is really exciting. I think that all of this nonsense that goes on with, you know, legacy security and modern security coming through and trust systems and trust list system. Did you know you can support the Bitcoin group by subscribing to the World Crypto Network? Only you can spread the word about the shows linking them on other websites, of voting, speaking others to subscribe. We have no advertising. This right here is it. Worldcryptonetwork.com. Get involved today. Issue three, feds, butterfly labs, mined bitcoins on customers boxes before shipping. According to recently released reports from the FTC, butterfly labs did not use a test net to test their miners. They mined Bitcoin for profit instead, delaying orders and racking up untold numbers of bitcoins. They also ordered phone fingers that read, BFL is late, why you know ship, mocking their customers, butterfly labs, worst Bitcoin company or worst Bitcoin company ever. David Seaman. Well, if they were doing what was alleged, I don't have any issue with the government coming down on them because the government still provides this role of being the justice system. They have a monopoly on that and that's what they do. If you are scamming people on a level that they allegedly were, that makes Bitcoin look bad, that makes crypto look bad, and it's just shitty business practice. It means they don't get it. I don't have an issue with that. However, the feds only have so much resources to spend on fraud and criminal activity. I would really like to see them focus on things like say all the payday lending places that are popping up everywhere in strip malls and praying on people who are not financially literate sending them shit in the mail constantly, including me. I get some of this stuff and it's hilarious to me some of the terms in small print, like 728% APR. No, thank you, fuck you very much. You know, that's ridiculous. These things are popping up, but a lot of them are backed by the too big to fail banks. We're talking about billions of dollars of essentially userry here. It's not being investigated. Meanwhile, this crackdown on a Bitcoin mining company, although I think it's best practice and good to get rid of the bad actors. The federal government only has so much time and resources, and this is not the most important thing for them to do this level of case on. I don't think necessarily. It makes Bitcoin as a whole look bad because the public just sees the headline and they go, oh, I guess I'm not becoming a Bitcoin miner. I guess I'm not getting into mining at all. That's really sad to see. John Oliver did a great piece on payday lending recently on this week tonight or last week tonight, sorry. He talked about how one of them has a model in their program that is like a recycle logo. It goes around in a circle and they describe how the customer will get a loan from them, run out of money, not be able to pay the loan, and then have to get another loan to cover the loan, thus being an endless cycle of debt. That's right in the manual. Wow. They've enslaved us two ideas. These things mean nothing. There's so many people who are right on the edge, like one or two paychecks away from nothing, and they make so much money off of these people. There's a whole industry everywhere, like prepaid phones, and then bankless banking services. I really do think that crypto is going to play a huge role in just getting rid of all these old tech predators who are pretending to be high tech that are just the same old ship and don't actually have better technology. Like Andreas always binds us on remittances. They actually try to do more money. The poorer the country is, you want to send the money to. So they eat up more money from these people's paychecks. Blake Anderson, are you back having connection issues? Can you see and hear me, or am I having repeat connection issues here? We can hear you. It's probably good enough. What do you think about butterfly labs? Well, I think the butterfly labs was engaged in systematic deception. So I think that that's a charge or accusation being thrown around is apt. It's acceptable as an information technology project manager that's worked in both software and hardware development. There's no way that you miss hardware development baselines by that kind of a window and just don't know when everybody was doing the best that they could with the information they had. And not the case. And then the icing on the cake of them being proven to have not used test nets to burn in their machines is just like their company was a gigantic scam that cost people including myself a lot of money because we were working off of bad information that was lies. So I hope they all rot in prison forever and have a good time doing so. Bryce Weiner. Well, I might like comment, I guess, at this point is I told you so. Exit question, how can we stop this from ever happening again? Bryce Weiner, the only panelist to survive. Well, thank you. Actually, you can't stop it. There's really no way to stop it. It's got to be voluntary company by company. And you know, it's like it'll be the first to tell you some companies that avail themselves of that level of audit, some don't. And then it's just the free markets. I mean, anarcho-capitalism still has a place in crypto until they end up regulating everything. Bryce Blake, Anderson, how can we stop this from ever happening again? Bryce Weiner, how can we stop it from ever happening again? I would say that sometimes blanket responses to questions like that can be a little bit dangerous. I mean, it's the whole effort that needs to be put forth. And I wasn't ever invited. I'm sure there was a separate step on us too as a community, you know, Beth and or rail on people that are... The new Hangouts is really an incredible product, Google. You've really improved things this time. He's getting the full NSA edit. That's what Beth is. Hey, you're here. It was showing a blank green screen. How can we stop this from happening again? What are we stopping from happening again? Disonist mining companies? Yep. Butterfly labs, pre-orders, people mining with other people's machines. I think this is just another... This is just a new avenue of e-commerce. This is again something that free markets will take care of because if you're like a seller on eBay and you're selling a PlayStation, you could easily just fill it with dog shit and send that to somebody. But you're just not going to sell many boxes before you lose your eBay, seller ranking and status. If you do it enough time, somebody's going to sue you. Somebody's going to call law enforcement. And I think this issue figures itself out. You know what I mean? This isn't something that we need to develop new laws for. It's just e-commerce. And that's absolutely what Butterfly Labs was doing, selling boxes full of dog shit. Moving on, issue four. US military probing digital currencies in terror fight. Perhaps due to the unverified blog post highlighted by the BBC claiming that ISIS was looking forward to the release of Dark Wallet. The US military held a meeting in Florida with the shadowy business executives for national security where the military was warned that Bitcoin was very untraceable money. Ooh, just like cash. Should the US military be worried about cryptocurrency? I ask you, the slowly moving Blake Anderson. So I'm moving but very slowly at this point. My NSA clamped down. The quality of service scheduling to minus zero isn't cutting me off yet. I think it's a funny article. I think that ISIS documenter at the BBC referred to was clearly made by the Dark Wallet developers to garner attention. I mean, if you look at the reasons that this is our main financial plan for our group of malfeasance and they don't come in and freeze anything about this. There's no way that they would write an English and have such a cohesive plan to irreversibly launder funds. I mean, it's just absolutely insane. So it's an article that goes through and tries to say like the elicit activity of elicit funds and they try to conflate the elicit nature of various activities with Bitcoin itself, the token and the payment network. So I think it's a good propaganda and they did a really good job putting out a nice propaganda piece that will probably sway some sheep. But I don't think it's a killer criticism for Bitcoin by any stretch of imagination. I like the way when the government rang the bell. All the business leaders showed right up. Hey, we're having a meeting in Florida. We better hurry. Bitcoin Foundation, Amazon.com. We better get down there. Better hurry. Bryce, weenert, what do you think? I think I'm not going to Florida. I, you know, I, this is just brilliant, brilliant marketing. And the fact that now it has essentially gone viral is beyond the pale of, I think, successful for both Toki and Bitcoin. We can say any dumb shit we want and get whatever kind of press time and whatever kind of face time we want. We can say anything. We can buy nukes with Bitcoin. Some Russian somewhere is selling ICBMs for Bitcoin. CNN come interview. I'm glad that Bryce brought that up because the world crypto network has recently acquired an atomic bomb. David Seaman. Yeah, it's funny. Just recently. So this is from American Express. I partnered with this brand ISIS. It's literally called the ISIS wallet. And just two weeks ago, they changed the name of their app and pushed an urgent update to my, my galaxy, pushing a new brand. So now the app is called the soft card. So now it's before it was ISIS. And it kept saying like ISIS wallet has this for you. Ice wallet has that, I think they realize the misstep there and very amusing because what the ISIS wallet was trying to do is be basically, well, it was an NFC wallet. So MX is trying to build that bridge between new payments and their credit card products. And it would be a great app if they would just add Bitcoin to it. It's so obvious that these banks are struggling to create something better and consumers aren't jumping on board. Consumers don't care about NFC. Like that Apple-paste stuff. If we get to that at some point, I'd love to hear it. You guys have to say about that thing. I think it's really funny that they went from ISIS, which sounded horrifying and terrifying to soft stuff. They just sound like from terrifying to as impotent as it could be. Like there's a gradient of all names in between and they've really gone from one end of the second to the other. I found that humorous as I see. Oh, it's completely non-threatening now. I'll try to find the graphic for it. Yeah, the impotent wallet is a great name for a product. I thought it was bad enough when ISIS came out and they were the same name as the evil CIA group in Archer. So do you have the image now? Do. So it's a purple screen that tells you airplane mode is on. But yeah, it's very comforting. There's what it looks like for Loga. I feel so sorry. I was just thinking something a little more flaccid. I don't know. Purple rectangle is fairly flaccid for a financial app. Let's go through the Apple Pay thing. Bryce, what do you think about Apple Pay? I think it's awesome. I think it's great. I had the opportunity to speak with a couple of folks from Apple Pay a few weeks ago and they really liked some of the... I think that Apple is honestly very ignorant in regard to crypto, but that's changing very quickly. And a lot of the technology that they implement on their platforms kind of... I mean, it goes very... It fits very well with crypto, the past book being the most notable of. And which gift already works. So it's like already half a step away from Bitcoin as it is. So I think that Apple is going to start doing a lot of stuff with Apple Pay and probably block change in the very near future. Next 12 months, sure. That's really all saying it. That's awesome. I was really worried that it was just going to be like your Chase Freedom card is now tethered to your Apple Watch and you can't escape this traditional credit card product world. Blake, your thoughts? My thoughts are that it's going to be good for mass adoption kind of people. People that are taking a back seat will be able to get familiarized with this stuff. Like I'm almost like an email outlook service auto-configure. So you can use outlook. But then once you discover web mail and stuff like that, it's not really the same thing. So I think that it's too little too late as far as the core adopters that understand the usefulness of this technology and can use it without middleman. They're not... I'm not going to be able to stop that. I think they'll be able to get some money on the way up through adoption. But as businesses and individuals look for ways to reduce fees to different systems, I don't think that it's going to be any kind of long-term threat to the Transcension of Fault Tolerance as discovered by Satoshi. So I think it's too little too late a little bit. And you know, just a ductile on the end of that. You know, there's a fundamental question that has to be answered that traditionally people do not like to address in Bitcoin. And that is, if I don't have any Bitcoin, why do I want to use it? And that, you know, beyond when you stop, if it's not about the philosophy, when you take about all the libertarian philosophies and all that stuff, trying to actually explain, like, you know, go to a libertarian. Yeah, libertarian money is awesome. Well, why use that instead of PayPal? It's where I'm honestly most instances I really couldn't explain it to you. You know, jump into the constitutional argument bandwagon and say that monetary and fiscal policy was never supposed to be abdicated from the responsibility of the people to the Federal Reserve in 1913. Like, if we just want to use like a hollow argument to be like, why? Because constitution, you can use that. And it usually, like, if you want a really brief vehicle for communication, you say, the constitution says that we're supposed to have control over money. And we haven't. And look at how bad things are. Do you ever go with that angle? Do you think that that sometimes goes overheads too? No, I'm an anarchist. People don't even know about fractional reserve banking. They don't know that the Federal Reserve is not owned by the government. They don't know how money is produced. They don't know any of these things. And they don't really care. And you know, when you, when it is infinitely simpler to understand cryptocurrencies in the blockchain and how one relates to the other, then it is to actually try and explain where the M zero monetary supply comes from because you ask people if the Federal Reserve, they can't even explain it because they have no. One's based on trustlessness and one's based on deception. So of course, the one that's aimed at trustlessness is a lot easier to understand than the infinite rationalization of you did. What? Do you change interest calculations? How you inflated for what reason? So I think you're right that it's easier to understand the new technology based on honesty than all the old crap they've crammed in. And even the changes. I mean, now, you know, we've had this discussion before, even on the show with transaction fees. You can adjust monetary policy within cryptocurrencies and within Bitcoin. And it does happen. But the changes themselves must be justified in a transparent manner because the number of parameters that operate on these given networks that affect their economics are so narrow, you can model them in your head. So that level of understanding is really what's important. Now that's, but even still, that's really fundamental. If you're going to, and if you're still trying to explain to somebody why use Bitcoin, you know, if you're, if you're one of these people, if you're of the unbanked and you want to buy something online, your option is to walk into, to, to a CVS or a right aid and buy a PayPal prepaid card. That level of consumer acceptance is really where I think our efforts should be focused. We've got all of the infrastructure necessary, but getting people enrapt into the system to get that vote, that transaction velocity to support that higher price, that's just not even there. It's still just for trading. And the, you know, the thing that everybody anticipates for the price to go up is just more ways to trade. Moving back to the Apple Pay question, I'm not impressed by the NFC and the need to upgrade all the cash registers in the world. I think QR codes are just as simple and maybe we could even use legacy hardware, but I am very impressed by the tokenization of credit cards. The way the Apple Pay system is supposed to take a picture of your credit card, store it in your phone where the fingerprint is and it's not supposed to leave the device, not sure if I believe that, but then they send tokens out instead of sending out your credit card. And then they send out a much better system than anything the credit cards have come up with in the last, you know, 15 years of heavy internet adoption. They haven't done anything like that. So it's good to see it, but there's also a chance that a Bitcoin wallet could eventually be added to Apple Pay and then suddenly the credit card companies find themselves in the same situation as the music industry. What happened to our freedom? We signed a deal with this company and now it doesn't look so good. So we'll have to see how that turns out. It wasn't it took to go back and dovetail off of your point about it. Staying in your phone and allegedly never comes off. Wasn't there a celebrity that had personal photos on the Apple system and somebody went with it like a lawn fire and rescued back door that had to be in the Apple system and got what was it like Jennifer Garner's new picture? It's actually it's most like Jennifer Lawrence. Jennifer Lawrence. It's likely that they had poorly configured phones that were designed to automatically copy the pictures to the cloud. And once you've copied the pictures to the cloud, who knows what's going to happen? So, but it could go on. I thought that was funny. I thought that was funny to happen right before Apple's like we're getting to payments. It's like oh more centralization. We have 32 big to fail banks down to 16 down to four. Now we've got Apple with all their centralization getting in. Yeah, another zero rate in finance. This will be fantastic. So I chuckled at that. Well, if you like that, you're going to love this question Blake because our first question is question for Blake. He told me you used to be a professional mime. Is this true? In a very young age, I was trapped in a box that was like closing you know me and I have a certain kind of trauma from that. So it's a real medical disease and I don't appreciate mime jokes because I deal with this every morning I wake up and I think the invisible box is going to crush me. So I'm not laughing. A mime is a parable thing to waste moving on. Bryce, any news on not and razor POS. Thanks. Stop pumping coins in a Bitcoin group. You're doing the Chris Ellis impression, not much of a British accent though. Bitcoin trade box asked, what do you think of Mrs. Boring, not a slight that's her name. At the CDC, not the Center for Disease Control fighting the Ebola outbreak, but the other CDC, sorry about the confusion, calling Silk Road and dark markets rogue elements in Bitcoin and even defines rogue for us dishonest, naivet person, a scoundrel. We'll go down the line Blake, what about CDC labeling these things? Well, I think that there's demagoguery and pandering and the more of a centralized position that you take trying to get people to be one over to a various way of to various ways of thinking. I think that it's a danger and I think that she, I don't know if she always believed that or if she's just saying it to try to win over certain parties that are interfacing with the CDC, but it's computer systems are simple. Bitcoin is simple. We have three natural laws that we're trying to bring back because all the other ones are out of hand and we're running out of time with the non-realistic expectations we have for money and fiscal policy. We have the three natural laws don't kill people and violate their negative right to life, don't steal people and destroy the fruits of their labor because it do so is to retroactively enslave them and don't use malfeasance or lack of mutual ascents or nonsense in your contracts. When she has these opinions that fall outside of those three operations of law and then talks about the relative to Bitcoin, I think that it's losing track of scope and it's working outside of the scope of what we should be talking about and I think that it's a sad waste of time. Price Weiner, do we have rogue and dishonest elements in Bitcoin? Oh, they're most certainly our rogue and dishonest elements in Bitcoin, but luckily they're mostly all gathered up in one place in the Bitcoin foundation. I am very disappointed in these statements and I've talked to Ms. Boring actually about the CDC and was very excited about it for a long time. However, as a result of these statements, I can absolutely say we will not be participating at all because it's obvious they're studying Ms. LePoi. It's hard to be pro-technology when you're afraid of new things. David, what are your thoughts? Mr. Siemens' thoughts are that Ms. Boring is anything but I don't really agree with that because you know, does the US dollar have rogue elements? These are just users of a currency network and of course there's a big need for digital currency and grey markets and Blake really nailed it when he said, when he brought up the word, opinion. These are people's opinions and they are in these bureaucratic positions or kind of PR positions where in some rare cases within the cogs of the machine of the mainstream media, booking TV guests and all this stuff and really deciding the direction of public consciousness and it's just your opinion. It's not scientific fact that a lot of these products that were sold on the Silk Road, not scientific fact that they're harmful for you. In fact, so much research has been done that they're not and if we live in a even remotely free society to be the country that goes in when things get too terrible in the Middle East, well they lash you or put you in prison for drinking alcohol and here we push people in such a corner that they have to use something called the Silk Road to get the medicines they need to explore their own mind. And I realize there is also some, definitely some negative shit being sold on the Silk Road as well but a whole category of commerce on there I personally don't have a problem with and think is just a holdover of prohibition and it's opinion based, it's not evidence based governance and I think is more and more people come of age who are a little bit younger and a little bit more informed and aren't really bought into this reframadonist kind of stuff, your views on things like gray markets will start to shift. The number one item sold on Silk, I mean of course because of Razor Road and all that stuff, we did a lot of research into this. The number one product sold on Silk Road. Number one, highest volume product sold on Silk Road is a material that is legal in 14 states. So when you talk about dark markets and gray markets and the impact that they have, you have to understand what it is that you're talking about. These are things that are already on the, this is the monetization of the cutting edge of political thought and discussion in this country already. What was the material? Marijuana. We. The number one bought and sold material on Silk Road was pot and it's legal in 14 states. So what is it we're really talking about when we talk about these navish elements? I mean, I just misboring into Colorado recently. And remember economically that the drug producing states have always said the demand for the drugs comes from the United States until the demand stops, how can they stop feeding the supply to the market? Why? Exactly. Why? Exactly. Profit. Next question, Bryce, what do you think about what Jeffrey Robinson said in his latest interview? Bitcoin is just P and D, but he loves the blockchain technology. I think that Mr. Robinson reads my Twitter feed and he blocked me last November because I told him that he was a troll. Then suddenly he writes this book and starts going on television all over the place, saying what I've basically said for months now in every single interview and outlet ever. So I would only like to say Mr. Robinson, you can unblock me from Twitter. It's okay. The cat's out of the bag. Welcome to the fold. We're pleased to have you. Okay. We've got another question for Bryce. This we need ATMs in India. Exchanges are asking for IDs in digital form and he doesn't like so many hacks happening. So, our quest for ATMs in India. Skyhut. They're coming. Walktech's got a couple versions coming too, so it's just a matter of time. Very cool. We've got kind of a comment from, let's see, this loading Bitcoin trade bot. That says, what happened to Butterfly Labs? Part of a larger minor conspiracy to give mining negative press in order to prevent new players from coming in to mining while keeping the difficulty low? Let's hack them a theory. That was talked a lot about on the Butterfly Labs page because for a long time there were people that would go to the Butterfly Labs page and go to the forum to see where the updates were coming from and stuff. Every time there was any kind of bad press Butterfly Labs and Josh never would come by and they'd make, that's just people that are trying to get you to sell your pre-orders so they can get their place in line and yada, yada, yada. Them doing something that was that tricky and malfeasant would lead me to believe that maybe some of the companies did think that far ahead and really are being that slimy, which is a good reason to look out for the first scam of the Exchange Mount Gocks and then at the same time with Butterfly Labs. Now let's see if some of these software projects end up being scams, maybe made safe for Ethereum or something else. Right now they seem like they are developing along but I would be really, really, really wary of a new software in the space because we haven't seen a catastrophic failure very yet as far as I know. Look to the software space next. And people are actually predicting that the next difficulty update is actually going to go down. So it might not be such a bad time to get into mining after all. Voss had a question from Jamie Davis. When will KNC be under investigation? Is it just a matter of time? Anyone's thoughts on this? Notice the hush that fell across the panel on that when I think that speaks volumes. There's a good chance if you were so hard to think if you were a Bitcoin mining company and you had all this hardware sitting around, would you want to mine with it too? I guess the real problem comes when you stop sending out orders because you want to mine more. That's what it is. That's what it's going to discuss. Yeah. Yeah, the first part is like, yeah, okay, you're testing them but you got to ship them right? Now let's just keep them. That's where I started to lose it. Yeah, that's feeding people it should. Oh. Oh, still there Blake? Nope. All right. I'm going to ask a question from Infant Radio. How's it going guys? Can somebody explain how the Reddit mods might not catch this? And this is a breaking news story from me from RT. It says, 17,000 max invest infected with a botnet control via Reddit. That sounds pretty interesting. I'm just learning about this right now though. Anyone read up on this botnet issue? If it's got anything to do with the fapening, I think that would be hilarious. I blame that fapening on the botnet. Yeah. I haven't read anything about that but every time I go to RT's website, there's a part of me that wonders what kind of interesting Russian malware is being loaded on. You know, since I'm a journalist, to be a nice neat little in into listening to what's going on in digital currency and probably some US politics. I did see that RT interview, the interview that Brian Williams did when he visited Russia for the Olympic Games. They gave him a stock cell phone and they said, okay, put it on the network. And within five minutes, it would have been hacked by three different people and they were looking at his name and they were figuring out who he was. And it just sounded like an incredibly dangerous environment over there. So it's very worrisome. It's probably the future of here too. I, from an information science perspective, it's like, is Reddit self-aware? What do they mean it's controlled by Reddit? What is that? I imagine that the controls are coming from Reddit, but I'm not really sure. Maybe they mean how 9,000 or the monolith. Every time they go somebody. Reddit, if Reddit self-aware, I think we have a lot more fapeting pictures. That's interesting. Well, isn't that kind of what happened with 4chan moving into anonymous and kind of coming out of self-aware and then engaging in operations? And isn't there some kind of a mutual, like, Reddit spin off to something that I can't think of the name of? I mean, would that decentralize digital brain, be what they're referring to? Like the Reddit spin off of anonymous has the botnet control here. I would be interested to read more about the article. I'm seeing like a content controlled bot. So it does whatever the content, the average content is on Reddit. Could you imagine? I can only hope that you get to control the botnet when you get to the top of Reddit, a special panel appears and suddenly you can upvote and downvote other websites and they'll just crash. It'll be like war games. Maybe that's what's going on with the Bitcoin price right now. That botnet actually started being controlled by our Bitcoin markets. Those bastards. You've got time for one. Well, let's do one or two more questions. Micro zero writes. Do you guys really think that they, the FBI, care if they break the law or not? Low. No, we don't really think that they care, but it should matter. They go to a lot of work to have these laws, the whole court systems about these laws. If you bring in evidence that was obtained illegally, even if the person's really bad, they've done horrible things, but you had lie and cheat to get them. Your kind of dust is bad. It'll be settled afterwards if it's not settled during the trial. The people that are engaged in corruption, do they care? Do they have an emotional investment in what they're doing? No, probably not, but the rule of law is paramount. It's a material importance, has been since the Magna Carta, the Constitution, and all that. When we have these observations of the rule of law not being upheld or given equal application across all different situations, that's a big deal and that's a bad thing. Do they care? No, should we care? Absolutely. So. We've got one more question for Bryce. Bryce, can you talk about Project Alexandria as Chris Ellis is trying to do something similar with his blockchain camera, proof of publication? Yeah. Project Alexandria is a distributed application that uses what we call librarians, which are financially incentivized to process searches on Twitter. Twitter, well, in social media in general, Twitter is the first module. You can put a term in and librarians will take an archive, those tweets, into a blockchain. Then you can scroll backwards and forth through time and see a word cloud of similar terms. You can actually view the conversations as they occurred in real time. So there's no editing, there's no mainstream media appeal to it. There's just simply the conversations that people have on Twitter. So for instance, with something like Ferguson, you can do an absolute and direct comparison between, for instance, the conversations on Twitter and the conversations that happen, for instance, on Facebook or in other outlets. You can see the, and you can do a direct immutable comparison, excuse me, a direct comparison between this immutable ledger of Twitter and what actually occurred and what was reported. That's really the, there's no more hiding what happens in history anymore. Because with these distributed communication systems through social networks, we can now record opinion in real time. And the tone and tenor of the opinion itself is now also a part of history, not just the facts themselves. And for anybody that's not familiar with the libraries of Alexandria, I mean, Alexander of Macedonia and the first information scientists getting together and putting together all this useless information, then it being lost. So having an immutable system that comes along and makes a digital, you know, a fire safe copy of this information named after the tragic loss of the libraries of Alexandria, I think it's a fitting name. So if you're not a, you know, my history geek, like maybe some of us are, it's a pretty cool story and it's a pretty cool thing to try to correct it. It doesn't happen again because if history, you know, rindred itself or repeats through it, everyone to say, let's not let that happen again. So fire safe is the key. We never should have left clay tepilates. Sounds like a very cool idea, Bryson. Also for the record, I think people who edit Wikipedia should be paid as well. We've got one last question from Jamie. I'm just going to love this one. What does the panel think about the perception of Bitcoin compared to the Alts? What makes Bitcoin different from the Alts? And I'll give everyone a chance. We'll start with Blake. Well, I think that the main difference between Bitcoin and the Alts coins is the fact that the hash rate for Bitcoin is not interchangeable, fungible, swappable with the other hash rates in the different system. I mean, the Shah hash rate, the Bitcoin has achieved is way higher than, you know, let's say we have, you know, script, asick proof minors and the chain is, you know, runs like shit. So I think that the biggest difference between, you know, okay, well, the Bitcoin token versus like a dogecoin or Litecoin token, the payment system is the difference. The tokens are really, you know, the ones as good as the other, but the token that's hosted on a payment system that's better, that's what ends up creating an objective and scientific difference between the various different chains and technologies. Right. I would disagree. I think that the biggest difference is time. It was the amount of time that Bitcoin has had that had, and the fact that it was first, that it enjoyed this distinct first mover advantage. However, you know, the longer that Bitcoin goes on and the more institutionalized it becomes, the less mutable that it, that it, that it amaliable that the codebase itself becomes. So there's a lot of problems in Bitcoin right now that unless it's solved, it will never actually reach that, that institutional phase. So whereas in the, whereas with alternative blockchains, there's an infinite more amount of freedom to experiment and fail and be wrong and try different ideas. And I think that when the solutions for the problems that Bitcoin have finally arrives, it will come out of the experimentation and the experience that we've gained in the alt market. Yeah, like a test net. Uh, 450 million dollar monetized test net. Well, I think that people tend to frame this in the paradigm of this Bitcoin, Myspace, or is it Friendster, or is it the Facebook that's eventually going to just have that crazy network effect and become the default currency for everybody. I think the only issue with that kind of framing is that Myspace didn't fail and then Facebook took off the idea of a modern social network was born, and really, you know, version 1.0 was perfected with Friendster, that idea of a social network grew with Myspace and then when it was ready to transform and get a little bit more professional and more personal, it grew even further with Facebook. And I think now, you know, it's growing in Twitter is now you're getting access to just better data happening around the world. And it's sort of, it could happen with other social networks in the future. And I see a similar migration possibly, similar, but not the same with wealth itself, where, you know, Bitcoin is where it is simply because as Bryce said, it was first and also massive branding and there are some big economic actors who are invested, you know, when Richard Branson is willing to go on Bloomberg and talk about Bitcoin, when Bill Gates is willing to talk about Bitcoin, when Mark Anderson has as much money as, and companies at Coinbase as he does through his fund, you got people who are essentially going to make sure it doesn't lose to some extent and always are going to be smart enough to create new use cases. And I'm starting to believe that there's something about wealth where it wants to get at least two or three degrees away from Fiat as soon as possible. As soon as that gets practical, that's how consumers are going to do it. First, you have Bitcoin and then it's what I do with this Bitcoin. I don't know, I'll just sit on it for now and then a month from now, some awesome game comes out for some poker tournament or whatever. And you can only buy this kind of coin to play it. So you trade off some of that Bitcoin for this and then there's another use case that pops up that's on its own blockchain. You're just going to see a diaspora of electronic money, I think. I think price makes a good point. Bitcoin is oldest. It's also accepted in the most places, but sadly with the price doing what the price is doing, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference between Bitcoin and the Alts as much as we'd like it to be different at least for now. I want to jump in really quick and say that as a result of it being the oldest or first and having the time that it did to develop, it was able to go through a gradient of three different technologies. So I think that the first to CPU mining, then the FPGA mining and the ASIC mining and now the newer coins are having to come out as proof of stake and have to be distributed to some extent because building a hash rate that's going to catch up and have the base that was afforded to Bitcoin is not as possible now because it's happened before and people are looking for it. So I think that again, some of the ramifications of being first may be spread out a little bit farther than would be first evident. Moving on to predictions or story of the week, Blake Anderson, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, I want to kind of wrap back to the cyber attack on JP Morgan Chase. It was one of the largest in history. They're saying that admin access was granted on several of their servers. Sounds like admin access was reached on one of their software certification servers. And this is going to happen again and again and again. There were 32 too big to fill banks that are now down to like four. They're way, way, way too large. There's way too many unmitigatable risks and systemical vulnerabilities with having value in this day and age, put into institutions that large. And I've managed math based security projects for Fortune 25 enterprises that had 300,000 users. And at that point, when people are like, is this going to be secure? It's like, well, here's a security can be. Here's this giant cloud of unmitigated risk that's sitting here. So unless you have the human element of people constantly auditing for various positions of software and hardware and having that going on 300,000 users deep, it's not an effective situation to keep value safe anymore. So my prediction is that these attacks that you're seeing on like Home Depot and various different institutions like that that are getting really big are going to start happening on financial institutions more and faster and it's going to be a lot more follow. There's a result of them. So be ready for that. Right, Swinner. On October 9th, the CFTC is going to have a meeting about regulating exchanges for crypto. And I am very, very, very excited to hear what comes out of that meeting because there are a lot of people freaking out. So when those meetings are done, I think the landscape is going to change for Bitcoin and other blockchain-based networks, probably even forever. David Seaman. I don't have any specific predictions or anything. I just know at this point from talking to so many of you guys that the future is going to be fantastic. I don't think we're going to eradicate basic human issues like violence and war. We'll still continue. People will still be assholes and take advantage of exploits and economic systems. But I think we're going to get things that are a lot better because there's so much money. The system we have now produces so much money that then gets dropped into the pockets of defense contractors and dark pools. You look at the $40 trillion or something insane that is in the bond market just sitting on government's books and money that just doesn't exist, essentially. We're going to now throw that away and get something that's fully optimized and actually reflects on a one-to-one basis people's labor and their attention. When you're in front of a computer monitor or when you're listening to a podcast or playing a video game, that's all going to be in some way directly monetizable and then directly transferable. These technologies already exist. We're just perfecting the connections to make all that stuff happen. It's going to be truly fantastic. It's going to unlock a lot of money for a lot of people and give certainly the millennials the future that they have been hoping for, I think, and everybody. Sounds excellent. My prediction, the world crypto network will receive grand patronage. It hasn't happened yet. Currently, all we have is a very depressing post where we're looking to divide up $80 and everybody wants a cut. But that's all about to change. The good reputation of the world crypto network continues to grow. From Mr. Chris Ellison's groundbreaking work covering the BBC and Dark Wallet in London to James Bang's live man on the street coverage from Occupy's Ten Hong Kong. The world crypto network is quickly becoming more than just a collection of shows on a YouTube channel. It is quietly establishing a model that all future journalism will follow. Honestly, timeliness, direct access. All we need is a white whale who will help us pay the bills while we change the world. And right here, on this show, I'm predicting that it will happen. The world crypto network will find a patron, maybe even more than one. Up, out of time. Until next time. Bye-bye.