The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Chris Ellis from World Crypto Network. Hello. Will Pangman from Topiki? Hi. And, Chris Ellis from Anonymous Bitcoin Book. Hey, everybody. And I, Thomas Hunt from Add Bitcoin. Issue 1. Ross Oldbrett Trial delayed until January 2015. In order to give the defense more time to prepare against the prosecution's terabytes of data, the trial has been delayed until January 2015. Previously, the judge had dismissed the defense's motions about how the FBI may obtain the location of the Silk Road server. And if they violated the law to do so, Chris Ellis, your thoughts. Yeah, I read the last call. I was a bit disappointed for him, but it is for the defense's benefit that they get more time to look at the evidence. I'd also quite like to go back over quite how they found out the location of the server in the first place, which they said they did by the FBI said they did by putting lots of different characters into the form fields of the website and then apparently it spat out its IP address. Now, I haven't done info second a little while, but I'm pretty sure that just doesn't happen all by itself. And I'd quite like us to kind of go through it. And one of the things that I'm looking at at the moment is doing these open source investigations whether you put an evidence bundle into a private Git repository. And then over time, you publish the commits as you work through the investigation and then you can invite people based on a peer-to-peer level. And I'm just wondering whether maybe we should put this as an idea to the FBI and actually compete with them directly in this case. There have been computer science researchers who tried this. They checked the settings of the server. The server was properly configured not to show its IP address and typing random characters into the login box did not produce an IP address. It's possible that the FBI is speaking in code and random characters really means SQL injection and SQL injection is hacking. The FBI is not allowed to hack. It's also possible to use the NSA back door. Will Penguin. Yeah, it's a good thing for the defense. That the case or the trial was delayed and it hasn't been delayed a great deal, but a couple of months and that will give Ross more time to comb through the couple terabytes of data that he only recently got his hands on as I understand. He's a smart guy. He's able to help his attorney craft his defense with more time to look at more and more of this material. That's a good thing. It's also a strength for the prosecution as well though that we should acknowledge here. As you guys just pointed out, there are certainly shenanigans whether it's from the bench, whether it's from the prosecution or law enforcement in terms of how this has been handled since day. It's just important that folks continue to do their own research, pick apart the arguments on both sides and determine the veracity on your own, hopefully without echoing or regurgitating third party and indirect information. It is a success for the prosecution as well that their terabytes of data have appropriately confused the defense and doing a document review in prison. I just can't imagine that. I'm just off at this. Yeah, imagine it's a little bit. You're at a bit slight disadvantage if you can't get access to the internet to look stuff up as you're looking at this terabytes of data who knows what kind of software tools maybe he's looking at all this shit and no pad for all we know. I wanted to take a look at the standard that the state had set up for itself in this case. We often as libertarians talk about the idea of a victimless crime, right? If you can't point out the victim to me, then there's no crime here. Get out of here, throw it out of trial. You shouldn't be going after people for having little pieces of vegetation in their pocket and so forth. The state says, well, no, that's not a reasonable standard. We don't need to find a victim for this crime. I'm the victim because I'm offended by your vegetation. Now, Roth's defense recently came to the judge with an argument that said, well, look, they've been violating our privacy trying to collect evidence for this case. So it's through the Poison Tree time to throw this case out. And the court says, well, look, if you didn't say that this was your computer. So like, if you can't point out who the owner of this computer is, then there was no crime here. The evidence is perfectly good in court. And so, if you want to admit to it being your computer, then maybe we can talk about this again. But unless you can say who the computer belongs to, there's no crime here. It's a victimless crime by the FBI. And I think that's one hell of a standard. I think that it really highlights the participants in the case. You have Ross Olbert, who is the defendant, who's pretty much screwed. You have the FBI who works for the government. You have the judge who works for the government, the prosecutors that work for the police. For the government. And they're all trying to protect this money-making scheme called the US Dollar and the War on Drugs, which is all part of the government. It seems a little bit lopsided to me. Oh, not to mention the jurors who have all been in indoctrination camps for 12 years of their life or more, also run by the government. It also seems like they're using a catch-22 made by Dr. Seuss to finish this case off. Oh, yeah. I'll tell you about the server unless you say it's your server. And if you say it's your server, we're going to hold that against you. It's a very childish thing to do. It doesn't seem like the work of adults. Egg that question. One word response. Guilty or not guilty. The guilty. Will Payman. Stiff. Christoph Atlant. Under the law, probably guilty, morally speaking, utterly not guilty. It's unfortunate, but probably guilty. Moving on, issue two. Super Nintendo Loskey, Alters, BitLicense plan to exclude software developers and minors. Is the BitLicense plan just getting better every day? The NYDFS is still not released. The risk assessment documents requested by the Bitcoin Foundation and continues to exist entirely in the shadows. Are they bending to public response? Will the final BitLicense be as horrible as the first draft? Will Payman. I find it amusing that they delay turning over their research with which they use supposedly arrive at the first draft of this proposal or the BitLicense. When I think about people who delay delivery on something that's been promised, I think of procrastinators. I think of unprepared students for exams and final papers and things. And I'm pretty certain. Well, I'm not certain. I'm pretty... Sisters, whether they have this research or did it at all, did a sufficient amount. There was a funny meme on Reddit. I think it was Reddit or something. I saw it on Facebook maybe, but it's a picture of a paper recycling plant with all these bales and bales and bales of shredded paper. Walls and walls of it. And some guys leaning on one. He's all... You know, take my picture. And it says the BitLicense proposal comments. Like, you know, who knows if they're even doing this stuff. It did seem a bit more prepared and a bit more reasonable of an approach. I was surprised that they walked back at some of these things and they actually did provide some good clarity about how they plan to... They literally said not regulate. You know, without excuses, you're always looking for caveats with these guys. You know, you're always looking for... But, you know, with these guys. And you didn't hear that. So those things are somewhat encouraging. But I want to caution folks to be vigilant, aware of a kind of... There still be something hidden within the proposal that is really essentially crippling long-term speaking of the technology and its potential. But will be something that most of the industry per se will agree with in light of some of these other concessions that were just made? It does seem very much an unprofessional slap-dash approach to regulation. And I don't think they actually made the documents and they're definitely going to wait till after to reveal them, which at which point they'll be pointless and worthless. Christoph, Atlas. Yeah, I think that they're in bed with the existing financial system. They're going to do whatever is going to benefit those folks. If they're making anything inconvenient at all, it's only because people in the existing financial system want to set up their own kind of blockchain type thingy. It's not going to be Bitcoin, of course, but some kind of a Fed coin. And I think that's the full extent of their interest. And if by some magic we get by, we skate by with a relatively unrestrictive set of regulations, they're just going to make them more restrictive in the future. This is going to be a goalpost that continues to raise the sky in the future. And it's going to be aggravating for everyone living in the state of New York. Maybe Losskin could just make his own coin. A New York coin or Losskin coin? Chris, Atlas. I think this is actually fantastic news. They're going to stay away from the software developers and anyone worth that sort and knows what they're doing is just going to end up creating peer to peer exchanges and completely make this whole thing a non sequencer. So I think it's really good news. And I think the regulators are just going to be chasing that tails. They're just going to end up doing circles and circles. They're never going to be able to keep up because all your innovators will do is just write software that gets around the regulation using this new loophole that created. The internet, the censorship is damaged and routes around it. A good question. In a word, the license will be better or worse than the first draft. Will Penguin? Will be slightly better? Chris, off, Atlas. Irrelevant. Chris, Alice. So I was going to say Irrelevant. Both of those are not valid word. It'll be slightly better but still terrible. Moving on, issue three. Bitcoin exchange troubles. Moolaw never reopened Mint Pal and now is closed their doors. Bitstamp is terrifying users saying that their account unverified accounts will be closed and the funds handed over to unknown regulators in 28 days. And Cripsy is down with technical problems. What is going on in Bitcoin exchanges today? Kristoff, Atlas. I think people are still trying to find their feet in this new area because there's all these scam artists that were scam artists in the .com era and they were known scam artists in those communities. Now there's a whole new community of people to scam. And so I think that's one challenge is figuring out which people in this space are actually reliable who can be counted on for the word. Unfortunately, people that have a lot of entrepreneurial investing experience are also scumbags as far as it goes to supporting the US dollar. And so we want to find someone that's capable but a lot of people that are capable are also not trustworthy. Of course, what we need to always move towards is kind of a more a peer to peer decentralized way of doing this stuff. The exchanges really need to be peer to peer. And we need to evolve away from this type of system. As long as the technology continues to lag behind, people I think are just inherently untrustworthy in a lot of ways. And so we're going to continue to find problems crop up. As long as they can use PowerPoint and create those scrolling web pages with the frames and all the information on one page, they're all right with me. Chris Ellis. I knew this guy. I met him lots and lots of times. The guy is a shippable. He is a terrible, terrible person. If you meet him ever, you need to run away. I can't believe I knew him the whole time. He used to hang out and show it. He used to come to meet up. He was a nasty piece of work. He used to piss people off. And he was driven out in the end. He started chatting up my friend. And he told me whilst she was gone to the Lou, he said, I'm going to fuck her over breakfast tomorrow. And I wander about him and I said, look, stay away from him. And he was promising her he could get her a British passport and all this shit. And I was like, just stay away from him. He's dodgy. Anyway, he actually ripped off a friend of mine called Chris Layden, who interestingly made the Feathercoin video. And Chris is a friend of mine and he screwed him over lots of money. I think he eventually did get his money out of him. But literally as he was on his way back to his parents in Wales and he was on a train and they were like, they basically drove him out of London. So I can't believe all that time I knew who this guy was. I didn't recognize him because he changed his hairstyle. Actually, that wasn't when I knew him. I knew him. He didn't look like that. Anyway, oh yeah, he looked like this when I knew him here, okay, with this hairstyle. Not with this hairstyle, not with glasses, not with the hair like that. So that's why I didn't recognize him. But I knew I recognized his voice from somewhere. Now I'm kicking myself because we did a video on this from Chris before Coffee Back in July and I said this guy is not cool. He doesn't come across to me very well at all. And everyone's like, oh, that's slander. You can't say that against him because everyone was having to go at Dogecoin for outing him in the first place. And I'm so happy now that they've been vindicated and they put together this sort of open source investigation seems to be catching on. And yeah, if you ever meet this guy, you just need to stay away from him. He's a really, really nasty piece of work. He's not going to do anything to you either. He's pathetic. He really is. He's just pathetic. He's weak and lonely and something. And I'm just so upset. Why overreact this? I prefer to be first. Will Peng? Yeah, so these exchanges are a piece of work and the people behind them are and time and time again. It's I mean, just if you saw the rise and rise of Bitcoin in the last week or since it's been out, those scenes with Mark Carpellis, if that couldn't be the most cringe worthy material ever. Woo. So I don't that doesn't that's not to say that everyone runs an exchange or wants to is this way. But I think what you have is people who set up like a little neighborhood company and then because of the internet and because of this technology, they're able to scale it globally quickly. They're able to consolidate lots of interest quickly and gain lots of customers. And then, you know, they're not prepared for this. They're not prepared emotionally, psychologically and certainly not with the technology of their websites either. Their business acumen, you know, whether or not this guy was telling the truth about just burning up his runway way too quickly with things like the doge car and other things. Maybe that's all true and that's not I mean, that's a pretty fatal flaw, but it's not nefarious per se. So it's interesting. We're going to see this until we start having decentralized exchange. It's unfortunate that the killer app for Bitcoin is the buy and sell. And I say that's unfortunate because, you know, that it's a pretty crappy killer app. I mean, none of these none of these websites work really, really well. I think Bitfinex is one that I've used that I think looks nice, works nice, easy for people to learn. They're doing a good job. It seems, you know, who knows what'll come out of the woodwork about any of these folks. So I hope Cryptsie gets back online because they were kind of like, even though they're UI sucks, they're kind of like this shining jewel of a US altcoin exchange that's actually, you know, like growing and seems to be growing well. So we'll see, yeah, decentralized exchange. Come here soon, please. And remember, no one should be storing their money in an exchange long term. An exchange is a place where you take your money, put it on the counter, exchange it for another type of currency and walk out with your money. If you leave your money out of the counter, it might not be there when you come back. Kristoff Atlas, exit question. What is your trusted exchange kind of after two, one? I like Cryptsie. Even with the downtime, sticking with Cryptsie. You actually like Cryptsie. I'm not letting that one slide. You told everyone to get off when they accepted dollars. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't leave your stuff on there for any length of time, but they have a pretty decent record, I would say overall. They definitely had some like rocky stuff when they were first starting out with people's funds, like temporarily going missing and stuff like that. But lately, I think they've been certainly as for me as a customer, they've been quite reliable. God, I mean, you send funds there. It doesn't show up for like a day or two days. You got right to their support and then they say, oh, yes, sorry, that shouldn't have happened. And then it's like, God, it's unmanageable for me. Okay, I don't like any of them. But if you watched my livestream the other day with Sarah McQuitch on at UCL, I actually said that ironically, I think BTC-E is the most reliable of all the exchanges because they're not interested in screwing you over as a customer because they need you to help them do whatever it is they're really doing behind the scenes. And that's why every year or so, they tell you never to send any more bitcoins to your old deposit addresses. Why? Is there a wipe in the database on the inside? They want to know that if they get raided, that there's no evidence there. So I'm not saying that they're up to no good. All I'm saying is that ironically, the bad guys are the criminals, are the people you can trust now because the real criminals are the people in charge. Well, Penguin, what's your favorite exchange? I was going to agree with Chris and I was thinking during his response, I would say local bitcoins is my favorite. It's a good choice. Moving on issue four, Hong Kong heats up. It all started Tuesday when police moved in and began dismantling barricades and it's been a game of cat and mouse ever since. The police move in and take a street. The protesters come back in much larger numbers and take it back. The World Crypto Network's own reporter on the ground James Bang has been assaulted by police on multiple occasions and is risking his life in the field to bring us live video footage of these events on the World Crypto Network YouTube channel. The Bitcoin group would like to praise James for his dedication and focus on this important project. Chris Ellis, I ask you, what's going on in Hong Kong? Like all credits, James, like the guys of a hero, absolute hero. And to think that he got in touch with me and he was so like, oh Chris, you're my hero, you know, you swayed me to leave your job. You have the other one that's going out, look at how things have changed. He's now gone up to like police officers with his camera. He's absolutely brilliant. And it'd be really cool if we could get him some help to get a flat jacket. He needs a helmet. He needs to print out that idea. I don't know how he's getting on with that because I wasn't on in tune today with things. But yeah, we have a press identification now. It printed out and laminated. Right. We would like to see him get a flat jacket or it was also recommended a baseball or a, sorry, a bicycle helmet. It would be lighter and more comfortable. Yeah. He needs a helmet, man. Otherwise he's going to give himself a brain hemorrhage. He's been knocked over that many times. He often calls me on Skype when he's in the hospital saying, oh, I'm all right. I'm all right. But he's not all right. And you can tell, he's got a daughter as well. She's only young and he's got a family. So he needs to think about this stuff. So I think it's great that the Chinese government are caving in and giving into anger and hatred and violence because that will just make the protesters more resilient. The people there have certainly lost trust in their police department. It clearly seems they're not working for the people that are paying them. Will, payment. Yeah. And I want to echo what Chris was saying credit to James, huge credit to him for not only doing what he's doing there for the people in Hong Kong, but bringing the information, the on the ground information to the rest of the world through his videos and his courage. So this is one of the most amazing things that we can do now as kind of like our voluntary, little global communities, little families that we set up. WCN is an example of that. There are many platforms like this where we can connect with people on the ground and really get the truth out, really get the real story out from a primary source on the ground. That's priceless. So huge credit to James. That's going on in Hong Kong, the same thing that's going on in many other places in the world, whether it's the Arab Spring or Occupy or all these other things. This is a trend that's been seen and written about in the circles of power for about 15 years, at least, on the regular. And that is that people around the world are growing increasingly frustrated and angry towards the soft tyrannies and limitations that are being put around them. In some cases, much firmer, harder tyrannies. In many cases, just incrementalism, really restricting human freedom and association and each most often. So people are upset and they're making that very obvious. And now, where we didn't have the ability to take a bird's eye view or a man on the street view of these kinds of conflicts in several years ago and years prior. Now we do thanks to Broadband, thanks to Mobile, thanks to the Internet and thanks to groups like the WCN who can bring this information to the world. It is truly amazing what James has been able to do with only a cell phone and a microphone. He's broadcasting live. The other journalist all asking, like, when does your show go on? What are you doing? He's like, no, it's live right now. It's actually happening. They look a little outdated with their big cameras and they're going home to upload some video and going home to look at some photos. That's so passé. That's like 1990s. Are you sure you guys are with us in the Oscar? Christoph, Atlas. I'm not really sure what to make of this movement exactly. I don't think that democracy is inherently a useful or positive thing. I hope that the outcome of the movement is a greater skepticism towards government in general. If the movement is specifically about a segue from a more totalitarian government to a more democracy-based government, to me, that's pretty much a lateral move. I know that on one hand, the state in China and the state that's being imposed on Hongkong in particular is doing some pretty terrible stuff. I read about a woman that had been killed, like the government wanted her house and they just bulldozed the house while she was still in there. Some pretty sick stuff that you wouldn't see that exact type of crime in the United States. There's certainly plenty of civil foretour in stealing of houses and so forth, but they do make sure to at least escort the people out of the house before they bulldoze it. I guess that's a small positive. On the other hand, economically speaking, Hong Kong has been much better shape than the United States as many people expatriate from the United States to Hong Kong for a more favorable treatment in terms of the economic situation. I hope that the economic freedom to the extent that Hong Kong currently enjoys it is not compromised by this movement towards a greater democracy, so to speak. I think it really should be about skepticism about government and finding ways for people to come together and sell things on their own peacefully and voluntarily. That's certainly I think protests perfectly peaceful, perfectly voluntary, and so I think that they should continue with that. It is a very unique situation in history where Hong Kong, a foreign British colony, has been handed back to the Chinese. This is pretty much their chance to stand up and say something before they become permanently a part of China. This is kind of the last gasp of democracy there and you just don't know which way it's going to go. Are we going to get wiped out or is this democracy idea going to spread to China? Are we going to people are going to be occupying the Great Wall next? Like we've seen occupied type Arab Spring movements in Egypt, Libya, all over the world. It could pop up anywhere. I'm sure that's what their governments worried about as well. Exit questions, say safe, James. Moving on to question and answer. Still a chance that your questions and we only have a couple who are going to move through them. We're starting off with this one from Chad crypto. Oh my, Chris went back in time and is transmitting through an old black and white camera. Chris perhaps fits in with Bryce Weiner's theory on Twitter that Chris is really Bob Dylan. If you look at an old frame from the don't look back documentary by D.A. Pay Baker, Chris, I.E. Dylan is clearly visible. And remember that this documentary is also when this one was visited United Kingdom, the same place that Chris currently lived. There could even be some highlander throw-ins as well to explain the lack of ageing. So there is definitely something going on in England. Our next question from Michael Trotter is can you name three things or so about Bitcoin that I could tell people that want to get into Bitcoin? I often go for not opening yourself to future payments, fast payments, and via internet. But there's quite a few different ways to go. So what would you guys say? What do you usually say to people? Just one really quick thing. Why should they try Bitcoin? Chris is frowning. We'll start off with him. I usually say that they shouldn't unless they've got a reason to because I don't like selling things to people really. I think you should educate people. But Chris, it gives them control over their money, it's usually why I tell them. It puts it under your control. I think part of the trick not to sell them all at once. Yes, you're excited about Bitcoin. Yes, I'm excited about Bitcoin, but you and I have probably read a lot of things about maybe watching videos. There's a lot of research that built that excitement. They're not going to do that right away. So just getting the idea out there, just, hey, there is this Bitcoin. You don't have to try it, but it's going to get bigger and bigger. And whether you draw it or not, it's going to come to you again eventually. So just repetition. Well, Penguin, what do you like to say to people to try Bitcoin? I try to find things that are simple to understand. And like Chris said, too, not to sell them, but just to open a can of worms gently for them. Selectronic cash or currency for the people, by the people. It's managed by everyone and no one. It's digitally scarce. It's the first invention of that sort. Digitally scarce, good for the first time. Sometimes if I can tell what kind of an audience they're coming from or what kind of a background they come from, then I might use something that really caters to that set. So if I know they're a gold bug, then I'll say this is hard digital money for the first time. Or if they're very left-leaning usually, then I'll say this is the most egalitarian form of money it's ever existed. It's open to the whole world for free. Something simple like that. So you have to shape your pitch depending on who you're dealing with. I think that's a good point. Also, trying it out. If they have an iPhone or an Android phone, getting them to install a wallet, make a username and password, and sending them a quarter or $1, just something so they can see, wow, the value moved from his phone to my phone. That's pretty neat. Christoff, Atlas. I think people care about causes quite a bit. So if you can find out what types of causes they care about, there may be a way to appeal to people in that regard. Not too long ago, people were quite excited about the idea of micro-loaning to the underprivileged in other countries. I think Bitcoin can really facilitate with that. I know there's lately a lot of talk about what are the fees going to be like, should be changed the block size and blah, blah, blah. But fundamentally, I think that cryptocurrencies and general, whether it's going to be Bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency, they're really going to be able to help these people quite a bit. For them to be able to connect from the third world to the first world do business in real time. That's just like an amazing capability that is really going to allow people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. So I think, yeah, if you can find out about what kind of causes they're interested in and tie that to Bitcoin, that can be quite helpful. Very good. Moving on to the next question. Are you aware of a group calling itself Bitcoin Group is launching an IPO in Oz? I assume that's Australia. Has there been any confusion between you and them? Well, I assume there is some confusion. Certainly, we don't officially own this name or anything, and it's quite possible we could be the Bitcoin Group and they could be Bitcoin Group. And I guess that's okay. There's certainly in Australia, we're in the US. We don't really have any copyright lawyers. We're not going to move for that. I hope they would do the same, especially considering we have prior art on this. But I don't think there would be that much confusion. Chris, do you have an article about this or something else? Something in the chat. Yes, I did. Yes, so this is the article that he linked to in Coin Desk, Bitcoin Group seeks to launch World's first Bitcoin IPO. Yeah, the world's first Bitcoin IPO, of course, is everything with World's first. Right, this shit. Anyway. Wonderful comment. Will, you had a comment on the Bitcoin Group? I personally could care less if there's five different Bitcoin groups or the Bitcoin groups or any mixture of the set. The bottom line is the folks who know of us in our work or the show or this network, they will always be familiar with this brand, if you will, being associated with what we're doing here. If there's another idea that isn't necessarily competing in a whole different industry per se, they share the name, then they have to compete for brand recognition and reach and stuff over there, just because you had the name first doesn't mean that you can be the only one. This isn't highlander. This is Bitcoin and it's open to everybody always and there's room for everyone. The way to my heart is definitely through highlander references. It would have been nice to see CoinDesk mention us in the article there. There's also a popular web show called the Bitcoin, maybe a link. I'm saying for the number of you are going to do that. I'm definitely going to do that after all the things that we've said about them on here. And the time recently, I went to the top of Reddit for calling them a tabloid. Yeah. Wasn't that article clearly just a paid advertisement? Yeah, like Captain Obvious. Yeah, of course it is. That's what they do. That's exactly what they do. This is not the first time. I haven't forgotten Emily if you're watching this by the way. We're not going to let you forget about that article that you publish about BTC market, make it worry scam somebody out of 40 big coins because of your article. It's not art. This is bullshit. It's so obviously a scam. I have not met a single person in line. I'm doing this investigation at the moment. I'm putting it in the blockchain. I want to put all the crimes against Bitcoin into Bitcoin's blockchain. So it becomes a self referential prosecution. Of its own fucking sinful dirty frauds that impest this whole industry. It is so obviously paid for article just the whole way it's laid out. And if you look in the comments just like there was on BTC market maker, this looks like a scam. Can you not see it? It's set. It's set. It's set. It's set. It's set. It's set. It's set. It's set. It's set. Also, as recently reported by Roger there on Twitter and reported in my video, they don't pay their authors in Bitcoin. Instead, you wire transfers. If you could understand or comprehend that. And I've also heard that sometimes they don't even pay their authors at all. So be careful when dealing with that company. They're not actually interested in community oriented stories either or stories about the little guy. Quite explicitly, actually. Yeah, they do seem to be very focused on the top-down view of Bitcoin, CEOs, etc. And again, going back to paid articles, that's probably more better for paid articles. We've got a comment from Jay Siborski who writes, any comment on the Newsweek lawsuit? And this of course refers to Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto who is finally suing Newsweek who failed to retract their article, failed to apologize, and failed to again making amends for outing his personal address, sending all those reporters to his house, making him and his family unsafe saying that he might be the creator of Bitcoin. I definitely support the law, dude. What do you guys think? Chris? Yeah, I think so too. You have to hold these crooked people accountable. And I know the community really well did this when the story was fresh. They held this author accountable in that publication accountable. It got out quickly. The truth got out quickly because of the grassroots or guerrilla efforts of community, amateur investigators and stuff. And this, what we want to encourage, this is what we try to do here, Chris's idea. Hopefully, I'm Chris. I can't wait to see you produce this or help you produce this, like a rubric so that people can do this, what you're doing with embedding information into the blockchain, that they can do this themselves too. And we can kind of scale it organically like that. That's a great idea. So yeah, these, these, I lost my turn to talk, guys. Take over. I got one. After Dorian wins his lawsuit, he should rename Newsweek to Bitcoin Week. Chris, I'm going to take a look at the lawsuit. Yeah, I feel the thing that's a little bit awkward for me about this story is the idea of Dorian, like crowdfunding his lawsuit. My understanding is that the idea of a lawsuit is like, well, there's a risk that you're going to win it or lose it, right? If you win it, you get some monetary damages in which case, hooray for you, right? If you lose it, then you lose out on your initial investment into the lawsuit. And I think it's a good idea to have those kind of incentive structures in place and the legal system because you don't want it to be an over-lictidious society. And many layers will take the case on the basis of saying, well, I'm not going to charge you anything for it, but in the case that we win, I take a percentage of the winnings or whatever it is. So it does seem a little bit odd to me that these sort of crowdfunding this war, as if it has, as if the Bitcoin community has some dog in the fight exactly. It's really like, it's a personal thing at this point. It's his personal, the impact that Newsweek had on his family. And I just, I feel a little bit weird to me that he's asking the Bitcoin community when he hasn't really given much to the Bitcoin community at this point for funding for that. It seems like an obvious chance for one of those token systems. Why don't he just make Dorian coin on counterparty? And then if they win the lawsuit, you get paid more money for your coins. And not that I'm sure that's legal. But if that was legal, they could certainly do that. We've also got a question from Jay. He says, anyone have an opinion on Jamie Diamonds latest comment? Bitcoin can't compete without regulation. Are we already competing? Winning? He also said that Bitcoin was threatening to eat their lunch. And this is after he'd previously said that Bitcoin was a bad store of value. So I definitely think he's starting to hedge. He's starting to shift. And it's great to be in politician with one of the largest banks in the world when you're just an open source computer project. That must be very humbling for them. Any thoughts on this, Chris? Jamie Diamonds? Jamie Diamonds without the D is a guy now that feels so good. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of his to be honest. Will. Will. He's never been a believer which tells me or even given the idea of Bitcoin and blockchain tech credit at all. And much of his colleagues are coming around to that, at least giving this invention some credit. And that tells me he has discount and underestimating it and at his detriment. He's probably going to be the last one at the table to realize that he's the mark. Chris, what do you think? I do not understand this idea that journalists have of like citing him on his opinion about Bitcoin. Like as if they're going to go to the Titans of the buggy and horse industry and ask them about what they think about automobiles. And they're very skeptical about it. It's like, oh, well, they're the experts. They've been in this industry for a long time. So this whole car thing is probably not going anywhere. It just kind of blows my mind that people are so naive that they think they could just insert these opinions from clearly heavily biased people like billions of dollars at stake and submit this as an expert opinion. It's interesting. I think it was Henry Ford who said something like, if I cave the people what they wanted, they'd want faster horses. Got another great short question. Does anyone care about Apple Pay? I don't. Well, I care about Apple Pay. I think it's fascinating. I'm very impressed with what they did tokenizing the credit cards, something the credit card industry couldn't do themselves for the last 20 years of internet adoption. Actually, a secure credit card you can use on the internet. Theoretically has been tested for proving it. I also think there could be a Bitcoin wallet interventionally and that they are doing our job for us by convincing people to stop swiping those old-fashioned cards and start paying with your phone. And once you're paying with your phone, well, you could use Apple Pay or you could use Bitcoin. So once again, a billion dollar company competing with an open source software project. We're going to win. Yeah. What do you think? I would totally let them help us onboard people to mobile payments as much as they want to. I mean, we're having a damn hard time convincing people we being the Bitcoin community or advocates or you know, evangelists. We're having a hard time convincing people to go to mobile payments. So here's the other thing. Apple and Google and these companies are behemoths that their like Apple's not only working on a payments engine for mobile payments. They're involved in hardware software, they're involved in all kinds of things. So they have to have a lot of public relations, fires to put out constantly. And there will be some big ones coming soon because they've built a lot of their technology on the broken open internet, you know. And as we saw with the iCloud, celebrity, the fapening thing like that, that happening did not give them enough bad press. I don't think because we didn't emphasize the security enough. It was all about victim blaming and blah, blah, blah, you know. The problem with that is they're going to have more problems. And we will be there to mop up, you know, on their problems because we don't have the security concerns. We as in Bitcoin users and Bitcoin fans don't have the problem in this technology that they are dealing with. The fapening was especially well timed for the Apple taking over credit card announcements. It was very much. You can trust us with your digital photos. Now trust us with your credit cards. Very much a surprise. I think we do need Apple's help on this stuff. When you put them in charge of advertising, you get that famous 1984 commercial. When you put brain tree in charge of it, you get this video ransom note. And so I think we should probably use them to the fullest extent that we can. I definitely think that commercial is still haunts my dreams. Although the face is talking at the same time, it's like a computer in Tron or something. One of those big multi or the computer and hackers really is the one I'm thinking of. We've also got a question from Jay. He said, where can I get my mad bitcoins Halloween costume? That's a good question. I'd like to see people dressing up themselves. Perhaps their children is mad bitcoins this year. You know the the general look is pretty easy to get them big goggles. Get yourself in this hat. Maybe a little bitcoins sticker or a low and I see perhaps your way or your dog. We should do I've got some dogs. We should do some dog mad bitcoin pictures. What are you mad at? Doge coins at that point? Mad Doge coins. Stay then. I'll like me. They'll come around. They'll be like he's finally on board with a doge. We got rid of the move on people. I think it's cool now. And we're going to move on to predictions or story of the week. Will they have a prediction or a story of the week? I guess I don't know if this is a prediction but I think the delaying tactic of government or you know court or the regulatory process or whatever that's that's like a built-in feature for them. Delaying doesn't help you know the technology advance. It keeps it keeps would-be entrepreneurs from starting up. They're on the sidelines waiting for an answer. It keeps a lot of capital sitting still when it when it could be flowing. It's hurting and I think they know that. I think that's part of the strategy here. So delaying the trial you know it just gives them more time to get to weaken the support for Ross Albright and gives them more time to you know craft. They have endless resources whereas the defense does not right so more time for them is more is better than more time for the defense. So in the case of the law ski and the regulation I don't you know I agree with Andreas. Bad regulation in New York would be bad for Bitcoin. That's true but I also don't care what the answer is. I want to get on with things. I want to see more companies more of these companies I've heard about sitting on the sidelines starting up and they've got great ideas and I don't care where they stand ideologically they have good products they're ready to bring to market and you know if these products are built around like zero knowledge and built around you know full full direct user and these kinds of ethics which a lot of people are calling for tech not in you know regardless of their idea they're calling for this and so as long as these products are along those philosophical lines technologically speaking then we need them and they're they're being delayed and delayed and delayed people are delaying like innovation such as like multi-sig setups and things because they want to understand what the regulation around multi-sig will be and they don't understand what that is until there's a you know an approved regulation that's passed so this isn't really a prediction and just a rant about this delay tactic and how really you know frustrating it is this is why we've had very you can see the patterns in the price following past years still even though it's been down since January but the patterns are pretty much you know the same ish however the price is down and it's not really you know it's there isn't as much excitement um by and large on the edges right the the excitements within when you're in a company building it or when you're in a project building it and and I think this is because people are just waiting for an answer let's get to the answer let's get to the acting and not the talking anymore for crying out loud they don't need to do any more research or have any more comments they have Andreus is speech in front of Canada and the bevy of quality comments that they've gotten if they've read them that's plenty of research even if they did zero research prior to it so write the dang thing I just want an answer I don't care if it's the most draconian thing coming out of New York uh the world will move on let's move on you're right well those companies should get in the game usually it's better to think for forgiveness than to ask for provision Chris off atlas uh my story of the week is about Keith Alexander the former director of the NSA by the way if you're not sure whether the NSA is a civilian organization or a military organization that launches offenses around around the world just look at the guy who is leading the organization and the number of little flagpins that he has on his uniform um so he resigned from the NSA's former director and now he's making like a like a ridiculous sum of money per hour as a consultant and so some congress people were like well what's up with this like he uh he's kind of an idiot I mean we put him uh in the director position of the NSA so he probably can't actually do any shit right like he's got political connections he has access to access to classified material but what a one on earth what he be paid to consult for four thousands of dollars per hour and he must be just giving away state secrets and so then Keith cut Alexander says this week um no uh what happened was uh immediately after uh I left the NSA I picked back up this side project that I've been doing my spare time you know tinkering around in the garage I've designed a system that is extremely good at identifying and combating uh uh APTs or uh which stands for advanced persistent threats this is like a slang term that came up in infosek in the last decade and it was referred to as referred to like these you know units from the Chinese military cyber army and various like very well-funded well organized organizations trying to hack into stuff and so this the what he's basically trying to sell people on is like yeah I just um it has nothing to do with what I what I had access to the NSA you know I had access to all this information about the Chinese military and the Russian military and on the US military doing all the tacking stuff it's nothing to do with that it's just been something I've been tinkering on at the base uh on the on the begins and I'm now lodging it launching a company uh around this amazing inter invention that I came up with it's like if President Obama like after he got out of office was like yeah and also like I designed the next rocket for NASA you'd be like what are you talking about that's not credible at all so basically it's it I think it's it's kind of delicious in a way because it just shows how like ridiculous and farcical the whole system is that they're this guy who supposedly is working his hardest his damnness to secure the country and then immediately after he uh he has this proprietary idea that he didn't share with the NSA supposedly that he's now going to make his next to ten million dollars off of it's just a revolving door between people operating in the government and uh starting these semi-fascistic corporations that get all their money from governments and you go in one door and out the other and now I'm the director of this and now I'm the CEO of that and now I'm the head of pointy of this community for the government it's uh from the banking sector to the military to just about every damn part of the whole state and it's a good laugh that's great here that general Alexander is starting a second NSA and his garage because that's what we really need another of now we're going to go to Chris Alice he's doing his best Simon and Garfengal Album of Reimpression Mr. Chris Hello yes welcome back I got uh disconnected from the internet but not for long it was a futile attempt to censor me to give my story of the week which is the blockchain passport so um we had a chat the other night um with Suzanne uh Templehof uh a bit nation and there was lots of controversy over it over possibly possibly being a scam and I thought I'd interview her since no other journalist was journalist in quotes that is um everyone was just taking uh Nathan Bosnian excited the story sorry I mean all the people that resigned but of course had nothing to do with him and I just troubled me this idea of like how do you prove someone's existence um in space and in time and I'd sort of been thinking about this when I was at the bitcoin squat a lot I'd just been pacing up and down with too much coffee so I set about the task of trying to do this with available tools so if you go to my get hub for slash mr christ j and well dashed citizenship I've come up with this proposal which is well-tested and ship creating affordable decentralized passport services using available cryptographic tools right so it's just using what we've already got available to us no coding anything no two million dollar funding rounds none of that let's just hack this shit right um and I realized you actually couldn't do it and I had to do a few things to to make it work but if you bear with me I'm gonna take you through it now so essentially you get invite everyone to to a meetup preferably a commercial venue I'll explain why in a moment you give them a quick tutorial and password managers they'll have been told before they come to clue themselves up on this and this is basically an opportunity for the organizers to get a sense of how educated these people are they know what they're getting themselves in for and then each person at the meetup takes it and turns sit down in front of a webcam they have that picture taken they then go off to a private room they generate a new pgp key preferably this air gap you can use something like the crypto stick which is a usb stick that um consign your transactions for you like the treasor with with bitcoin and then what we do is we create an HTML document that has your picture on it has your pgp identifier up at the top has a biometric um this is uh called a fingerprint um which if you actually read out you could even read it into a video it will actually redeem your your public key again um it contains the latest block height with the Merkel route proving that this happened at this time and no earlier um it then has a QR code that you can scan in which will then take you to more information it could be like a key base account uh one of these accounts which you can then use to sign with the same key you can then sign all of your social media accounts proving those you then take the hash of this document along with the image and you sign it with your pgp key you then take the resulting hash of that and you put it into the blockchain itself preferably with your identity number at the top now what you've just done is you proved that this document in this form existed in this state at this time right because you've done a few things here what you've done is you put the Merkel route in proving it kind of happened prior you've then locked it down with your pgp key by signing it which means that you can't change the document now without making it noticeable you then put it into the blockchain meaning it couldn't have exist any time later so you've locked down the creation of this document to a time period of about 10 minutes and then what we're going to do and this was the hardest part that I struggled with how could you prove where it took place because GPS can be fake so easily and then I realized businesses have an incentive to advertise their location in space when you publish a bitcoin transaction on the blockchain you reveal your IP address to the nodes that hear you first so what you do is you get the business itself to sign the transactions into the blockchain preferably from an account that they've had other customers pay into thus proving and leaving a trail of evidence behind you that that business really did exist at that address and of course businesses go out of their way to publicize their addresses right they go onto Google so there's plenty of of backed up data so that will be stored in local debug log files also the Ethereum crew Vlad is working on something called proof of custody which will make this easier because then you'll actually be able to utilize the log files that people store on their bitcoin nodes that are locally and so then what you can do is you can print out that nice fancy passport you can brand it as BitNation Passports, World Crypto Network Passports, prick your brand like your picky coffee right I am a citizen of this now and because I think that these guys have got really good reputation once you've got your PGP key you should then go around the room and encourage people to sign your PGP key thus adding weight to the fact that you were there and so if you come up to somebody like me and I've got a personality and I'm on the internet and everyone knows me and Chris has signed your key then it's pretty likely that you exist right this does now what's critical here is so I've modeled this on the latest and the way that they're doing passports now so you've got the identifier here you've got the encryption algorithm and the block cipher there how how how how strong it is and then and then the fact that it's been verified but that would only be verified by the organization by the organizers of the meetup what's critical to this is the expiry date obviously someone could steal your PGP key and then your fuxx because then they can go around pretending to be you and now you've created a full sense of confidence so we do need to come up with a protocol for how we can revoke these keys in the event that they're lost I would love to get your suggestions obviously this is on GitHub which means you can fork it and I would encourage you to do that and so yeah I've just left some notes down here about how this can then be linked to reputation systems I put in obviously there are some ethical concerns and I've addressed those I've also put in a journal which kind of describes my thinking as I was going through it so that you can see what my intentions are and what I was thinking my underlying assumption is that by recognizing the things that we share in common we give ourselves more space to discover our uniqueness and our differences and my my understanding is that look at the moment I'm not trying to globalize the world and make everyone the same I'm trying to get us to understand that what we have in common is a responsibility on our conduct conduct towards scarce resources not that we should all be the same where the same thing I think that's a completely backward way of thinking about it so you can head over to my GitHub tell me what you think about this it is kind of obviously linked a bit to the blockchain investigation idea where you know we put bundles of evidence inside of Git repositories and then publish the the commits over time to prove the state of the evidence and it wasn't tampered and so on but I got more mileage today out of that idea than I was getting out of the other one so I'm kind of my ADHD is going nuts Chris can you do you have a favorite kind of use case for these passports that you can share with us? Yes so I'd really like to go to Calais in north of France because Calais by law has to defend the British border in France on behalf of the British as such a nice agreement we got away with and of course they they they've ended up being screwed because all of the immigrants that come from Africa and the Middle East and a lot of war torn countries end up in Calais and then they're not allowed through and it's actually the French peoples that end up having to stop them and a lot of these people are stateless they they have literally nowhere to go and I'm just I just breaks my heart every time I see it come on the screen like these people deserve I'm no I'm not worth more than them my life isn't worth more than their life like I should be able to go there and help them you know listen to them like what are their ideas what do they want to do like you should be helping people not hindering them and I just think it would be to at the moment it's an art project it's a proof of concept it's nothing more than that I'm not expecting anyone to take this seriously other people have tried doing independent passports before but the idea is that you could then link this to social networking right and then I can then see that you are that person from your image you could even do a video and do voice recognition you could all kinds of things I don't want to get biometrics into it right now because they're quite dangerous if they're not treated properly but then if you start linking that to reputation systems online I didn't show you the one the way Q-Base works which is genius is you just go around leaving your PGP signature so here you can see like this is my reddit okay and then it left I left a message here which I signed which then links back to my profile so you're creating a chain of trust and then and then when you go to these meetups you're just checking in at these meetups I just need to find a way of like doing double blind because obviously you don't want everyone to know where you are a lot of people wouldn't want their location being exposed all the time so you need a way of zero knowledge proofing the fact that you have been verified by someone who's trustworthy it occurs to me that something like this could have been useful in the mula case where you have this epic like Ethiclis CEO who you were familiar with he had a bad reputation with you and with other members of the London meetup and if only people had access to that information if he was forced to present this type of information to other people and that could be linked to his reputation with you guys then I think that the story could have played out quite a bit differently right oh yeah absolutely because governments are too slow and a lot of like there was a guy who I met at the bitcoin squad who was wanted by the police and apparently the police were just stalking him getting him to come in to be arrested on appointment I was like which mean go and to be arrested on appointment I don't know about these things and he's like oh well they don't have the resources to come and get me so they just asked me to come in and they just pestered him the whole time and it's like apparently he even walked past the police officer who didn't even he's like he had the ability to arrest me and he didn't so it was just you know to be bothered with the paperwork it was too much trouble so it gives people a way of self policing and it's saying actually before you get involved let me if you don't want to tell everyone else who you are tell me I'll sign your key and then I'll just vouch for you to the rest of the world but I realized as I was talking to his analyst night is that she was trying to do too much I actually think that she's got a lot of energy a lot of passion I don't know well enough to vouch for her integrity but so far I'm like yeah okay you've just completely mismanaged this by the looks of it and it's gone a bit of a cluster fuck but the ideas are sound why don't we concentrate on those rather than name calling and one of the sort of the eureka moment today was when I realized that what you were actually trying to do was to incentivize this private passport service rather than incentivizing people to get the passport you're actually incentivizing entrepreneurs to set up this business right because you could sell these passport right you're leveraging your reputation right if you've been in a town all your life and your parents were in there the whole life before yeah you've got a great reputation now you can now leverage that and start selling it by selling up this passport service of course I want to use Joe down the road everyone knows Joe everyone trust Joe if he gives me a passport everyone will trust me by you know by virtue of that so I realized if we get all the equipment down like the laptop the printer the webcam if you get all that below $200 I'm just happy it is a nice neat little package with some instructional videos and full documentation away you go it's unstoppable then sounds like an excellent project moving on prediction New York to pit license will be a spectacular failure you'll make the mistake of Britain's red flag act look childish in comparison New York will lose an entire industry and it will not be the financial capital of the world in the future this is a major turning point for an entire US state it's all in the hands of one uneducated man that's right soon Nintendo for all your law degree and other pieces of paper you don't understand Bitcoin and yet you're going to attempt to regulate it a classic blunder like starting a land war in Asia Humpty Dumfies about to make a great fall the emperor has no clothes all the King's horses and all the King's men could never put him back together again remember Loskey want to choose and choose poorly people will know not to do business with New York up out of time until next time bye bye