The bitcoin group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hello, hello everyone. Robert Allen from CoinCube.io. Hello everybody, good to be back. Later on we'll be joined by Ben Arck from LNBits. Nine Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one, the price, the price, the price of bitcoin is currently up 9.13% in the last 24 hours with a last of 70,195, a high of 71,529 and a low of 60,100 that you can see right here in the chart. Perhaps a V-shaped recovery. That's $1 for 1,423 Satoshi's. Pretty low. As it says here in the New York Times, bitcoin drops to lowest level since Trump was elected as crypto, faces slump. The price yesterday was dropping like crazy, no one knew why. Some people think that it was the unwinding of leverage or perhaps a Hong Kong hedge fund or large individual being completely liquidated all over the market. Victoria Johns, what do you think about the sudden and instant bitcoin bear market as well as the last four months of the price going down? Yesterday was definitely a bit scary. I was sitting in front of the one-minute candles going, what? I think it went down like 10 grand in a day. I was going through to my daughter and going, oh my god, it's another 10 grand? I don't know the grand. At one point it was like 7 grand down and it was 10 grand down. It was like when is it going to stop? Fortunately today we seem to have had a remarkable recovery. What's interesting is that this is something that's been happening in all of the financial markets. I'm not quite sure what's going on. As bitcoin, as we all know, they're pretty wobbly anyway. We've had gold and silver skyrocketing, even the stock market was down a bit yesterday. Obviously a few weeks ago we had the Japanese yen had a sudden drop which had an effect on the dollar. There's definitely more going on than just bitcoin. Obviously bitcoin is the largest of X because we know it's a volatile asset. We've got a number of old OG bitcoins who own a lot of bitcoins. If one of them decided that they suddenly wanted to sell, that could make a difference. We've also got the fact that bitcoin is very financialised now. We've only just taken steps into that market. Obviously a lot of the tools that they're using are familiar to them but it's new to bitcoin. Obviously you've got the over leverage players as well. I think there are a number of things going on. In addition to that, since October, obviously we've had the whole 14 debate between core and knots. Just last week, obviously we've got the release of the Jeffrey Epstein emails which seems to have created a lot of drama on Twitter justifiably as I'm sure about to talk about. There are a number of factors. I don't think you can pin it down to just one but I'd say that's an overview from my perspective as to what's happening. Greve Victoria, we've had a lot of macro factors. Like you said, the yen carry trade unwinding. A lot of fear in the Japanese markets that could spread to other markets. All of the longs and the shorts, we keep saying this but it just keep happening. They pound it up. The shorts go down. They pound it down. The longs go down. All of these people lose their money. They lose their bets. It's not like when you have the underlying asset. We've also seen trouble in trade with President Trump's trade deals going wrong, the tariffs and so forth. The jobs reports bad. There's been a lot of larger economic news that's bad. As for bitcoin though, we can't seem to figure out. All the news is good. They want to regulate it. All these things. You keep looking at the transactions. All these things are good. But like you said, it just keeps dropping and dropping and dropping. Robert, what do you think about the price of bitcoin as well as the larger macro factors that are certainly affecting this economy? I think that paper bitcoin summer has reaped what we've all sewn or those who were in participating in it. Yeah, I think bitcoin becoming financialized is a net, probably overall a net negative. I mean, it might have pumped the price a bit. But the downside is that there's, like if you look at bitcoin back loans, for example, there is essentially a price tag on these bitcoins that if the price gets low enough, they get liquidated. So there's an incentive, a perverse incentive, I think, to try to short and try to push the price down to basically pick up these bitcoins that are sitting at whatever that liquidation price is. So I think that's overall a negative. I think a lot of people got sucked into that thinking, hey, I can have my cake and eat it too. I even doubled, I will admit. And I had a bitcoin back loan at one point. Thankfully, I paid it back. I got my bitcoin back, but I did not feel good during that period. And I don't think I would do it again. I think it's better to live within our means and to be more conservative and to be more careful. And ultimately, to hold the bitcoin, if you don't have the keys, it's not your bitcoin. It's a promise from someone else. So yeah, I think this is kind of like the payback for some bad direction in terms of the industry. And I'm hopeful that we'll get back to peer to peer money, which is what bitcoin, I believe, is clearly supposed to be. I think there's also the danger of having too much in the market, not being diversified. I know everyone hates diversification, but here we are when it crashes, you say to yourself, well, what else do I have? Do I have any cash? Do I have any stocks? Do I have anything else that I could sell while I wait for this to recover, or especially just having a runway, having a few extra months worth of savings? Is it good idea that I think a lot of us got caught by surprise on this one and weren't in a good position? So I think it's okay to accept that. It's okay to reset your position as well. Ben Arck, you're joining us. Let's see if you have sound. Do I have sound that is not terrible? I ride. Oh, it sounds perfect now. Nothing like rebooting a computer. Yeah. What do you think Ben about the price of bitcoin? We've seen great ups. We've seen great downs. Currently, there's a bit of a spike. Could be a dead cat bounce. Could be a complete market reset that changes everything. It saves all of our lives. No one knows right now. Not a chance. It's going to dump. We're in the bear market now. And people keep saying they're doing nothing. They're always doing a bear market. They're like, oh, this is definitely the bottom. All we're going to go up from here. And it's just that dead cat bounce. And we're going to do it past 40. And then we're probably going to go down to Lake Theroux. And then when we've all stopped talking about the price, and when there's blood in the streets, and we're all thoroughly miserable, and no one dare mention how low the price is and how miserable everyone is, then, and only then, well, let's start going back up. That's just the way Bitcoin rolls. But yeah, it's a risk asset. So it's a risk asset. There's less liquidity out there, just in the markets generally, which means risk assets go down, which still rob its point. You know, we need more utility and commodity use cases and Bitcoin being used as money in order for it not to be affected as a risk asset in the markets. And yeah, it's pretty, pretty dire. So, you know, these treasury companies could very easily get liquidated. And then that'll flood the market. You've got this, there's more news and eyes on Bitcoin and there ever has been. And there's more finance in Bitcoin and there ever has been. So the sort of traditional news cycle is going to be bigger than we have announced. So it's going to be more of a, you know, Bitcoin's crashing news cycle, which then the markets will also react to. Yeah. And then you've got this, you know, this Bitcoin Epstein connection, which we've shoot broke last week, me and you Thomas. And that has started to make its way into just, you know, DeCypia outside of Bitcoin as well as it doesn't make us look very good, even though it's like loads of fake news, but people live in this story that it's say that Epstein is Satoshi and all this nonsense and my son actually sent me an email screen shot and it was Epstein, sending an email to Gleimax or saying this pseudonym Satoshi is really working for us. And he said it to me saying is Epstein Satoshi? I was like, no, Sonny's not. But someone had sent that to him. And so I mean, it's, you know, it's everything's against us. But the good news is that when we do kick rock bottom and we stay there for a little while, we're all thoroughly miserable. When the price does then starts to take up again, which it will of course it always does. There's more people than I buy Bitcoin that have a house being, the new cycle is going to be bigger than it ever has been. And it works in the opposite direction. And that's when we fire from 30 K to wherever 400 K, wherever somewhere crazy. And that's just the way Bitcoin works at the moment. It has been a wild ride. As he said, Ben, there's a potential trouble with micro strategy. He could be in danger. CZ of Binance could be in danger. Many saying that they have, you know, oversold the market or perhaps are insolvent. All kinds of allegations flying out there on Twitter. We have to keep an eye on it and see how it goes. It doesn't look like Zoom is showing my video sometimes, which is a great new feature for Zoom. But let's keep going. We've got to go to the exit question. We're predicting against the Bitcoin predictor ball, which knows all Victoria Jones. We've seen a lot of price movement lately. Do you think the price of Bitcoin will be higher or lower this time next week? But you're muted. Sorry about that. It's hard to say, you know, I mean, it's all the doom and gloom. I'm normally the one cautioning everyone. It's just like there's a lot of problems here folks, but you know, we seem to be having a strong bounce. So I'll go with higher. Robert Allen higher or lower? I'm the eternal Bitcoin optimist. I'm going to say higher. Ben, are higher or lower? It's just a nice going lower. I mean, it may bounce off some dead cat bounce, but it's going lower, much lower, much, much lower. And now I'm muted asking the Bitcoin predictor ball. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? I think it might have pushed last week, let's say. I think it says outlook not so good. Outlook not so good about the price being higher. The ball is just slightly just slightly pessimistic. So take that for what it's worth. Obviously, you should make all your financial decisions based on the magical April. Moving on to issue two, block stream has no financial links to Jeffrey Epstein. Adam back says last week right here on the world crypto network, Ben and I went live for a quick sit search between the brand new Jeffrey Epstein emails released by the Department of Justice. We found lots of information about Satoshi and Bitcoin, including links to friend of the show, Amir Taki and friend of the show, Adam back. As Kyle Torpe continued the search online, Epstein also met with NYDFS, super Nintendo Ben Loskey during the development of Bitcoin and crypto regulation known as the bit license. We also had emails with Gavin and Brian Armstrong and Jason Calcanus, some saying that Amir and Gavin are crazy open source kids. Brian Armstrong warning that they shouldn't let the crazy early adopters wreck Bitcoin, but all of them with the same theme, Epstein has money and we would like some of it. The internet has responded quite salaciously to these charges, but let's continue the discussion here. Robert Allen, what do you think about block stream, Jeffrey Epstein, Coinbase and well as all of pretty much the early Bitcoiners, pretty much included in a lot of these messages? I'm not surprised. I'm obviously saddened, but I think it's to be expected if your goal is to replace the money printers of all the central banks. These people are not idiot, some of them are I think, but many of them are not, especially those who are behind the scenes. It makes sense that they would try to compromise key individuals within the Bitcoin community and potentially try to subvert and move the project in a direction that could ultimately kill it or at least neuter it. It makes a lot of sense to me. I think from the bit of emails I've seen from Epstein, he seemed to have trouble spelling and I remember, I guess he was juggling a lot to be nice to him. But anyway. That is interesting the way he seems to email more like people text. Don't you think? Yeah. I think it's like, are you here at five? Are you here yet? It has a text feeling to it which is interesting because we all know emails are archived and we all know texts are archived. I don't know what it matters using the email, but yet it is an interesting flavor of the emails. For sure. I guess the point I'm making there is for him to get Adam's name wrong, I think is completely feasible, plausible. And I do think I've cited pretty strongly with the NOTS camp in terms of this last debacle. And I think Adam has not really been the Adam that I remember in terms of his responses and his take on all of it. And so I think it is possible that the man has been compromised in some way. So that's sadly that's kind of how I see it. Let's go to Ben Arck. What do you think about Adam back as we discussed last week? We discovered a lot of early bit corners in the Epstein files. He was a major financier. People looking to get money is how it read to us. But Ben, you've seen more on the internet this week. What do you think? Yeah. I mean, I was quite disappointed with how bad people's research skills because you and I tell you Thomas, I think you, Thomas were the one who found the actual reference to Andy back being on the island. And when you lined up all the dates, they sort of they met in April, whenever, you know, of 2014, instant Thomas. And then from what he seems, which is right next to him, he's done it and then from what it seems, they then traveled across to the Los Angeles James by the 19th of April. And that's when Epstein met text, met emails and me attacky and says, I'm here with Andy back. No one else seems to pick that up. Like, even more stupid video where people were like, we haven't found any confirmation that Adam back was actually on the island. It's like, there is an email right there. But I thought I didn't back to respond to watch it trip out. Ben, like the information slowly came out and it was like three days later, they finally found the Andy back message. Whereas as you and I were reading it, it was really quick to say, Oh, you know, this is signed a mere talky, but it says it's from an alias. Well, let's search for the alias. Oh, we got about 12 messages. This will take 10 minutes to read. And we had that right away that not only Andy back, but also this kind of familiar relationship that we had with show my picture, but this whole relationship where, yeah, Hill, he thought he could care cancer. So he BCC's Epstein. He's like, while I can care cancer, I should tell the money about it. Amir gets this friendly message from Epstein, like, Hey, you're still doing this Bitcoin thing. You're back out of my island, you know, very friendly. And then the rest of them are a lot of this, like people sending him articles. You know, Hey, have you heard about this? Have you heard about this? Which is just like if you knew the big boss CEO and you're trying to butter him up to get the investment, he would send him articles. You would treat him this way. It's interesting to read someone's email that, you know, we know to be this horrible person, of course, from the trials and such. But at the time had such gravitas. And then we can, if we want to go deeper, we can say, well, he was accused of this or he was convicted of this. And should they still been giving him this gravitas, but clearly money talks. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's the, the, the, not a kiss ass, and those emails is excruciating. And then back to the point on, on the emails and how informal they are. I feel like, I don't know, maybe I've been trying too hard. I mean, too much for try hard in my emailing. And like really like the billionaire matter move is just to be all sloppy and bad punctuation and bad spelling and short emails. Like, I'm too busy for this shit. Okay. Yeah. Whatever. But I think at a mere tacky response was my favorite because God bless him. Because I posted about it and then he was, he was intrigued. He hadn't heard about it at that point. And then he kind of went back over the story and he said that, you know, like this basically a billionaire was offering some money when they don't have any money. And then the whoever this CEO was at the time, not on no name now. I don't think he went out to meet Epstein and then came back and said, yeah, this dude's creepy in the sleeves. So that's not going anywhere near him. And so a mere tacky kind of gets off scot free like he made the right decision. And then my favorite tweet from him was, was he just tweeted out, I'm Epstein famous biatches. Like this. And I thought it was a great tweet like he was owning it. He was owning the fact he was in the, in the files. But also, you know, in a good light. And I think on the other back thing, like when you do a raise, it's a very disorientating process. I'm not going to be an apologist or anything, but no raising 18 million Epstein invested was initially 50 K and then it went up to 500 K, which is relatively small check for the 18 million. And do diligence on a smaller check from an investor. It's that thing why you know, this guy's the billionaire. Now the people have promoted him and said he's a good dude. Like there is a lack of due diligence for smaller checks in the investment world when it comes to companies, especially from a CTO. Like, you know, we're doing a raise in Alan Bits and our CTO hasn't done any due diligence checks against any of our investors. And that's my job, isn't it? So really, to me, if they're trying to get their first investment, you have to be in the business. Yeah, exactly. This is 2014 as well. We're not looking at it. And everyone hates Bitcoin. Everyone thinks it's, you know, pirate money and all these things. You know, you're very first investment. Yeah. It would be hard to say you're doing a lot of due diligence. And the block stream, the block stream raise at that time was a big deal. You know, 18 million was a lot of money for a Bitcoin company to raise. So yeah, I mean, to me, the emails looked like the CTO who got rolled out, Adam back, the CTO got rolled out to the billionaire by the Zostin Hill guy in the Austin Hill guy was somewhat enamored with the billionaire and then communication between Adam back and Epstein, they pretty much dropped off. And then later on, they just associated from the investment that's done to Joe from MIT Labs, because I think they're investing in Z cash or something. So it's like a conflict of interest. So they got rid of the investment anyway, but that's for a different reason. Now I think the real question, which now seems to be asking, which I think is really important, is I've seen was involved in Bitcoin earlier and clearly interested in investors in Bitcoin company. I did find a email from Jeremy Rubin mentioning Epstein's holdings in Bitcoin and the tax situation. Epstein clearly was very interested in favorable tax in New York. Where are his coins? Like there will be some coins out there. There is a wallet somewhere out there owned by a billionaire who's clearly interested in this new technology. He was an investor in emerging technologies. Clearly spent a lot of time. People give lots of them a lot of crap, but if you look through his emails, there's investor reports from Coinbase, there's blockchain capital, there's a whole bunch of different investor reports. So he was investing in a lot of companies in Bitcoin and he did invest in emerging technologies. So that would make sense. And there's always blockchain stuff at the time, but I could use it with patient records and whatever else. So I could see why it appealed to everything which would appeal to him, but where's his wallet? Where's the money? Why can't I find his Bitcoin seed in those emails, Thomas? I've looked. I can't find it. It hasn't also been reassuring to see all the companies say, oh, we didn't have investment from Epstein. We didn't have investment. But like you say, Ben, he just invests through another company who invests through Joy Edo. He invests through the garage or studio garage, all these different kind of startup companies. And then they invested in Coinbase. Which happens now? Like if you follow the money where some of these VCs get their money from, which they're investing in in Bitcoin companies, there's a murky world. It's a murky finance in Thai finance in general. It's very murky and there's lots of queaps in it. But yeah, there's a lot of money being proxied through different vehicles and that existed then and it exists now. Yeah. I don't think it's to me such a problem that he, that, you know, these companies received investment from Epstein. Like you say, you know, money's funneled through different entities. It's hard to keep track of all this stuff. I think where I would be more concerned is the fact that it looks like he went to the island and we know that they were blackmailing people on this island. And you know, if you, again, like I said earlier, if you want to subvert or try to control or manipulate Bitcoin in the direction of the project, you know, clearly this is the game that these folks play. And so I really am concerned. And I think again, based on his behavior in the last few years, it doesn't track with, you know, block size wars at him. It does it, to me, it feels like the block size wars people would be on the side of NOTS and he's clearly not. So yeah. Well, I mean, we're getting to that the whole debate about, um, with between core and, and NOTS. Um, because I'm pretty much in the other camp on it, but I do think that if you look at Bitcoin now, I mean, free and open source, any free and open source technology project, if it's done properly, it's a sausage made in public, it's horrendous to look at, but you end up with a beautiful sausage, don't you? So, um, and that's what Bitcoin is and that's why it's so ugly a lot of the time and there's these battles which happen, but you know, there's this room of the Epstein's Starsheet and then the outside world looks into Bitcoin and they see this civil war between the NOTS people who are pretty extreme and you know, Luke D'She is a colorful character doing his own right. And then, uh, you have like, you know, these connections with, uh, people going to the Epstein island and then people saying Epstein's Starsheet. So, so yeah, it's a shit show when you look at it. We need, we need this news to just blow over and yeah. It does seem like a lot of that is too convenient. Like, you have this opponent and you don't like your opponent and then your opponent goes to this thing and you're like, suddenly my opponent's a child molester. Like, it would be great if your opponent's all ended up to be child molesters, but it seems a lot more straightforward. I don't know when we're going to come to this, I think with the upcoming, uh, Clinton, uh, public, public hearings, there's going to be some kind of attempt to draw a line between friends of Epstein early, which I think Clinton is going to say and friends of Epstein later. And then Bill, Bill Gates is going to straddle both sides of these lines. Other people are going to be friends early, friends later. Uh, it seems President Trump with friends at all times, uh, most times. Uh, so they're going to have a whole timeline thing on that. Uh, but let's go to the big. One more, one more thing is what like Adam back is just a, he's a, he's a prop, he's like a tech dog. Uh, and you know, if you meet my comfort, I'll be putting out in conferences with him a whole bunch and he just wants to come up and talk about tech stuff. Uh, he'll might turn up at the bar and say hello to people, but then he's gone early than anyone else gets a good night's sleep. He just cares about the technology and he's just, that's his thing. Uh, and I can personally, I am, I'm not going to be a big part of it. I imagine when he went to the island and after two days, I've seen still going, calling him Andy and about it was an excruciating experience for it. I think Austin Hill was probably having a better time like a fun time, boys, but I think with bad and back, I think he was a fish out of water. They just rolled out the CTO, the big brain. And then that was that he didn't go back. But I mean, that's how I kind of interpreted the whole string of emails. We're also seeing some, some separation between having a going to Epstein's Island for a meeting versus going for one of these parties. Elon Musk clearly wants to go for the party, not the meeting. Other people might be having meetings. Again, it's all up to them to say. And as Ben was saying, all those coins disappeared. I wonder what happened to all the video because we hear there was a lot of video, a lot of blackmail, potentially other countries involved. And I agree with Robert, what a dangerous place for a CEO to be the potential of blackmail, the potential of girls being sent in drugs, all kinds of things. You have no idea. So if Adam back went there and did nothing, it's fantastic. But obviously very dangerous. Victoria Jones, what do you think we talked a lot about this issue this week? Yeah. I think you have to be very careful in situations where people have kind of been given a halo for certain reasons. Because there's always a danger of cognitive dissonance, especially when something comes out of the woodwork, but completely blindsided you that you're not expecting. And the one thing I think the Epstein emails have witnessed to us is just how many lies have been going on. I mean, there was a short clip of an interview with Lubnick where he would swear blind on his mother's grave that he never in a million years wanted to have anything to do with Epstein. And of course, in the moment, his protests come across incredibly genuine. And then of course, these emails come out. And he's all over the place. And I believe that was the one though where it didn't go with his wife and his kids. Well, that's what he was saying. And again, that creates complications. As I think Robert was saying, he could be taken to a side room. Anything could happen on purpose or be lured into, not wanting these things. His wife and kids could be there on the island. Horrible things could be happening next door. It's not an excuse. Even Elon Musk is traveling with Tallula. I don't know who that is. But he was still looking for the best day slash night while this party on your island horribly embarrassing emails for all involved, certainly. Yeah, but the thing is, it's very easy to kind of make excuses. The point is, we just don't know. You know, there are definitely a whole bunch of lies going on. And you know, at the moment, you are kind of damned by association, especially when, you know, once you dig into these stories a bit more, you know, it's not just about Jeff Ristin, Epstein having sex with 16-year-olds. It goes much deeper than that. So, you know, and the point of the whole thing is it's about blackmailing powerful people. And the thing is, when you're blackmailed, you resist talking about stuff. And if you are going to be blackmailed, of course, you know, maybe your role is to, you know, inculcate yourself into these communities. You know, wouldn't it be interesting if the one person, everyone was hero worshipping, turned out to be the devil all along? You just don't know. You just don't know. And isn't it interesting that the big debate that we've got between core and nots is all about CSAM, which is directly to do with what Jeff, Jeff Ristin is connected to? So, you know, I think it's really, really hard when there are people you're close to, people that you've learnt to love suddenly turn out to be who you never thought that they were at all. It's really, really shocking. And it's a hard thing to get your head around. And that's not to say that, you know, Adam is guilty, but I don't think you should assume he's innocent either. I think there's too much information there that we just don't know enough yet. Well, we certainly know one thing. All of those emails was a great advertisement for scheduling software. Most of them about, will you be here? When will you be here? What time is the helicopter? There's gotta be a better solution. And that's why this episode is brought to you by, now, I don't have a sponsor, but wouldn't that be great if we had software that fixed that problem? I'm sure, hey, I will do it for us. But let's move on to the exit question. Will anything happen? Will the release of these Epstein emails lead to actual change? Mainly I'm talking about Adam Back stepping down as CEO, something like that. I don't think so, but let's ask the panel. Robert, will there be actual change based on the emails? Yes or no? Unless there's more that comes out, I would probably say, yeah, he'll just deny. And I mean, again, we don't know. And to Ben's point, he strikes me as quite nerdy tech focused, reasonable guy that is probably not doing that sort of stuff, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have been compromised. He could have been drugged, and then they put him in a room with an underage person, and they take photos. So maybe he wasn't actually trying to do anything CD, doesn't do that sort of thing, but you can still compromise someone in that kind of environment. And so that would be more my concern for a person like Adam. But yeah, I don't know. Again, I think if more comes out possibly, but based on what we know now, there's a decent amount of plausible deniability, so I doubt that he would step down based on what we know. It is very much like a scene out of Godfather 2, where the Senator is in the prostitution house, and he wakes up with a bottle. And he says, where am I? What's going on? Fortunately, Michael Corleone, the Godfather has helped the Senator out. So you have no idea what could have happened to Adam back or to a Ludwig, or anyone else who went near this island or near those emails, Bill Gates obviously lost his wife. We don't know the details, but it must have been bad. Ben, Ark, what do you think? Will there be lasting change specifically, Adam back stepping down as CEO, yes or no? I don't know. I mean, I don't think. There's no one near enough evidence who just rolls out of CTO, and that's pretty much where the connection ends. I mean, with Austin Hill, I know that he stepped down as CEO back in the day from Blockstream, and then Adam back assumed to CEO role. And from what I hear, it was because he just wasn't in touch with the technology enough so Adam back always ended up having to explain everything anyway, and just made more sense to Adam back with CEO. There might have been something else going on there, but I don't want to spread rumors or speculate as to why Austin Hill stepped down. But yeah, he's Adam back, man, I don't know. He's going anywhere personally. Maybe the board will try and get him out. The board of Blockstream, you know, they've got a lot of investors, they've got a lot of board members. Maybe if there's enough heat on him, maybe they'll think that it was just going to impact too much of the only company. But from what evidence there is, if there was some like, Robert was saying, if there's some really damning, the material out there, then the other would change. But from the evidence we have now, I don't think he's going anywhere now. And hopefully a little blow over for him, because I imagine it's an incredibly stressful time. And at that point in time in 2014, he's probably flying all over the place, meeting all sorts of creepo, billionaires trying to raise money for Blockstream. That's just kind of the nature of a race. You rarely do the due diligence before you meet the person. You meet the person because I'd be recommended by somebody else. And then you sort of assess them. And then if they're going to invest, you do the due diligence. So, yeah, hopefully it'll be all right. I do hope that nothing else comes out. I know it's hard to see now, Ben. But this could even be a blessing in disguise for Adam back. I think he's tired of giving speeches. I think he's tired of being the front face of Blockstream. And maybe they have to pull him back because of this. He gets to stay home, sit on the couch. Unfortunately, his reputation takes a hit. But maybe an actual time he doesn't have to do these speeches. I didn't seem to into it at the Bitcoin Vegas Convention. Victoria Jones, what do you think? Exit question, yes or no? Will we see lasting change, specifically, Adam back stepping down as CEO of Blockstream? Unfortunately, I think we will. If you witness what's happened to Prince Andrew over and Britain every time he's connected with, I mean, I know it's not the same kind of thing. There's no, no, not the same direct evidence. But it's like, literally, every time there's a new story of him being connected to Jeffrey Epstein, his life just gets worse and worse and worse. I think it's very unfortunate for Adam back, I really do. And no, I think there's such strong feeling about this in certain sections of the community that I don't think he's going to get away with it. He certainly hasn't been proactive in coming forward and talking about his exposed to Epstein before all this paint came out. You know, often I think you can maybe get heads up on these things if you're honest and forthright about it ahead of time. The other people whose names have come up in the Epstein files like Michael Sala and Amir Taki seem to have been reflected well from the content. But unfortunately, that's not the case for Adam. You know, I think it's very unfortunate for him I really do. It is very bad for the former Prince. There was a new photograph leaked in the new Epstein files of him, kind of on all fours over a perhaps passed out woman, young woman. It doesn't look good. Former Prince Andrew. And potentially, we don't know what's going to happen. There are millions and millions more pages of files. According to law, they should be released. We don't know if that's actually going to happen or not. If they do, I guess we'll search them for Bitcoin. It turned out fun, but it turned out interesting last time. Yes. On those files, like if you were releasing the files and in some way you'd been implicated in the files, you would leave that lot to last, wouldn't you? So I can just imagine there's three million emails from Epstein to Trump. And that's saving all that stuff for the end. Maybe we'll finally see all those videos. They say they took tons and tons of videos from the house, servers and servers, cameras and cameras and cameras because originally, and it's so hard to remember back because obviously the CSAM part of this, the underage part of this, mainly this was told to us as a black male campaign against rich and powerful people. That they would be entrapped. They would be black mailed and to black male, someone you need to have a video or an image or an audio recording or something, right? I don't want to see it, but President Bo Clinton, President Donald Trump, other people perhaps allegedly included in these files. We don't know what's going to happen, but Department of Justice is supposed to release them. We'll see what happens. Moving on, check out worldcryptonenetwork.com. We've got 4,746 videos. You could watch them for three months, 23 days and 13 hours straight. Whoa! Check it out at worldcryptonenetwork.com. Issue 3, crypto bill talks, picking up incentive allegedly, after clearing a key vote. I wish I had that button set for like, ha ha ha ha. Let's see. Oh no, it has many buttons, but not ha ha ha. Anyway, Cree vote in the crypto bill seems like the crypto bill is about stalled, as we mentioned previously. Banks want to kill stablecoin interest. Stablecoin interest could be about 5%. Banks offer you 0.1%. It's obvious why they don't want that competition. Additionally, the new fight seems to be Democrats attempting to block politicians from becoming crypto kingpins, the obvious problem, the current president and his family are crypto kingpins. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the crypto bill, which like everything else has become about the president and his family? I think it's crazy. I mean, the thing is, the whole idea of something like Bitcoin is that it completely disrupts how the fiat system works and governments literally are the arbiters of the fiat system. So, you know, the two systems are completely incompatible. You know, one is designed to disrupt the other. So, the idea of having, you know, a law in the country in order to control something on crypto, which is all Bitcoin based, is just nuts. It really is. And it's, you know, for the average person who doesn't understand what crypto is all about, it's probably hard to get the head around that. And unfortunately, many financiers, you know, they spend their life just focusing on how the existing system works. Most of them have forgotten any pages that they were given at university about financial history and how the financial system actually works. It's such an extent that they're now in their own bubble in terms of how finance works and they believe that they're all powerful. They don't even understand how Bitcoin has a potential to disrupt what it is they do. You know, if you laws are meaningless unless you've got the resources to actually enforce those laws and in order to force those laws, you need the money. And so, you know, you need the Fiat system in order to be able to force those laws, you know, by Bitcoin disrupting that system, we need a whole new legal system as well. And a new way in which the world works. Now, obviously, there's going to be a transition if Bitcoin does become what we think it's going to be. There has to be a transition period between how the Fiat system works at the moment and how Bitcoin's going to work eventually. So, we've got time to work that out. But it doesn't surprise me at all that there's conflict in this crypto bill because there's so much misunderstanding that it is around in the top echelons of government. And even though there are a lot of crypto enthusiasts trying to explain it to government, most of them don't understand it either. So, the whole thing's nightmare. So, you know, I'm glad that a few people are pushing back on this, you know, even if that is imperfect. I'd be very surprised if they sort it out in the future. And if they do, it's like to be a disaster. I definitely agree, Victoria, with the regulation is as kind of a cyber cyber punk or what a cyber punk. You only really care that code is law, what's encrypted, what you can and can't break. It doesn't matter the rest of this. There's some theory that regulation makes the price go up. So, everyone wants that. Of course, we all want out of this horrible trap of price being down. But the other side of this, and you think that the libertarians who have been with us so long who now surprisingly are wearing mega hats would know and would believe that regulation basically creates walls against competition. Coinbase wants regulation because they've done a lot of work to become the regulated exchange. And what they really wanted to block all future competitors against their exchange. So, if regulation is good for Coinbase, it's not good for you. We've also seen the banks who are even bigger than Coinbase trying to lock in protections against this stablecoin interest. Again, protections, not markets, not wild and crazy. We see what happens, but we rigged the game to have certain winners. Those winners being Coinbase and the banks. So, not a fan of the bill, but I also think that it's basically dead, not going anywhere. They've shelved it. This trouble with Trump and his businesses is too complex to be solved by the current negotiating groups. So, I think they're going to shelve it and forget about that will be no bill. Robert, what do you think about the crypto bill, the trouble with Trump's companies and regulation in general? Well, I would say that first of all, I'm a libertarian and I'm not wearing a mega hat. So, we're not all normal doing that. But yeah, I'm glad that it looks like it might be dead. I generally would prefer that governments leave us alone and stop trying to impose nonsensical laws and regulations on, as Victoria said, the technology that doesn't care what any politician or individual thinks. And ultimately, if we are successful in this mission, we've all decided to take on. Yeah, these laws will eventually be irrelevant even if they are passed. And yeah, as Victoria also said, you need financial resources to enforce laws. The system looks like it's 5, 10, 20. At some point, it's going to collapse under its own weight. And we're going to transition away. And so a lot of this stuff is in some ways that it's going to matter less and less as time progresses, I think. And we will probably end up more like, you know, for example, in Nigeria, the government says all sorts of things and there's all sorts of laws. But when you're living there on the ground, there's like the official way and then there's the way that things are actually accomplished. And these two ways are really not all that much related. And so I don't have necessity. In other words, the market will route around the destructive imposition of control over money, which governments have no business telling people how or where they should be able to spend their money. And so yeah, anyway, glad it's dead or at least seemingly so. And that's my take. It does seem funny if you think back to a more kind of cartoonish take and imagine, of course, we're going to see the new movie, the Odyssey, and we're looking forward to it. But imagine the Trojan horse being pulled up to the walls and the banks and the existing crypto exchanges have a big, you know, negotiating table and they have all their negotiations and they say, okay, we're going to let the Trojan horse in. And then the, you know, the Greeks come out of the horse and murder everyone. Like, you can't let that horse in. Like, I know everyone's like, oh, we're going to put restrictions on it and we're going to make sure that coin bases the winner or our bodies, the JP Morgan or whoever it is, they're going to be the pre-chosen winners. You just can't let this Trojan horse inside your walls. But they've given up on that. They don't see it as competition. The new Fed chair says that Bitcoin's more of a, like a weather vein tells them where the market's going rather than like a competition or currency, which is great if he wants to believe that that's fantastic. Ben, Ark, what do you think about the regulation and the battle for the crypto bill? It is funny how the lump stable coins in with Bitcoin because yeah, Bitcoin's like exists as an opt out protest money. And then back in the day, so people could flop out to something stable when they were trading, you know, the stable coins and Tyler emerged as a sort of necessary technology because they were unregulated markets and regulated exchanges. And we just needed something to like be to go into to be stable for a bit while we were going back and forth between Bitcoin and stable coins in order to trade. And now these stable coins have done quite well for themselves. And with the genius act, you know, the idea of them being backed by things like tea bells as a way buying up like US debt. And if you think about the US's success over the past, you know, about many years, it has been because it flooded the world economy with US dollars. And that's how it was able to be the water reserve currency. So encouraging the use of stable coins in the USDT, US stable coins out there. It just kind of makes sense from a policy point of view, but you are also just like putting the privatising money with the relatively unregulated banks. And I know that they're asking for more regulation. It's a very fishy thing. Did anyone watch the Epstein interview with Steve Bannon? I thought it was really interesting. So because there was a few parts of it which were quite insightful, which you never really want here when you're listening to someone as the testable at him. But there was a part of it with the, when he was talking about the 2008 crisis, and then what caused it. And he was saying, well, he had an interesting theory. So what caused it? But he was saying the number really knows. He said that the economies have incredibly complex thing. And then in retrospect, when something breaks, you can look at it and say, well, this caused it and that caused it. But at the time, you don't know what's causing it. And you don't know the different variables which you go to causing it. And you can add the economy to kind of a human body. Repeat it repeatedly during the interview. But I thought it was kind of a really interesting take. And the, you know, going back to the Epstein thread. But that is, I think that's one of the major concerns is you let this new thing in, which the whole system isn't like ready for, yeah, what impact and damage will it have on just the, the worlds of the economy. Like, it just feels like kind of a risky move. And then for the banking sector, yeah, these things offer this insane yield, which we can't compete with. And then why are they offering that insane yield? And is it legitimate? Is it fully liquid? So I think it's important to be cautious. But then I suppose the other worry is that the rest will just fall behind when it comes to, you know, some other country like China will just create some stablecoin ever. We'll start using that for trade. I do like stable medium of exchange. I've said a million times on this show. And I think we need it, but it needs to be built on Bitcoin, it needs to be built on some cool decentralized way, you know, using some crazy cool technology contracts, multi-seg technology, like a vault or something to keep a peg. I think that's good. Like we need to, seven medium of exchange for money, but these like private, privately issued money like tether. I don't think other way. And I think it's important that people are cautious over them. It is unsatisfying the economic explanation that they provide Ben before and they say that it's one thing afterwards. They say that it's another thing. They interview all these people. They say Bitcoin's going to the moon. But then we have our black swan or whatever it is the last four months. They're saying now it could be one large liquidation. It could be a Hong Kong hedge fund. It could be all of the exchanges selling Bitcoin against us. Or there's even, like you said, with the body and the virus and the fear, there's a 1929 stock market fear that everyone thinks there's a big crash out there and they could get ahead of the big crash, which on the internet just spreads and spreads and spreads and then everyone's like, I'm going to be the one who gets ahead of the big crash, but really they're causing the big crash. So it is, and we don't, we never know till afterwards and even afterwards we don't even really know. We can't trace it as well as we'd like. Unlike with weather, we could just, you know, measure how much rain there was. And then we know. Let's move on to issue four. Issue four. Bitcoin demand in Nancy Nancy Guthrie disappearance shows how crypto is becoming a more frequent feature of physical crimes. The shocking disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, the 84 year old mother of today, today show host Savannah Guthrie took a new twist as TMZ reported receiving a ransom letter. CBS affiliate KOLD also received a similar letter demanding millions of dollars to be paid in Bitcoin. There was an update to this story. I believe that the person who sent the Bitcoin ransom was shown to be false and was arrested for sending the ransom. So it's not necessarily Bitcoin related. We still don't know who took this mother of the today show lady. It's still unsolved. But Bitcoin and crime do seem tethered for together. As we said, the Bitcoin ATMs continue ripping people off as they get the phone calls with the angry people that convince them to send their money through the thing. Victoria Jones, are we seeing a return to Bitcoin as crime? Will we see the bank start to back away as more and more ransoms and kidnappings and people, old people losing all their money and horrible things are tied to Bitcoin, which we know is just money. But other people will use this as a disadvantage. Well, I think any criminal that's using Bitcoin for ransom is just stupid because there have been plenty of occasions now where people who've done that because that wallet address is going to be traced for decades if not centuries. You know, you'll never properly get away with it. You might in the moment and you might for a while. I mean, it was like the whole bit for next hack. You know, 10 years later, they've got a whole documentary how they've managed to track down the perpetrators of that. So yeah, I mean, someone who's doing that is really dumb. So, you know, I mean, okay, there are privacy issues with Bitcoin that some people are trying to get around and you can use things like coin joins and stuff to make the coins anonymous. But even so, you know, it's still hard to actually use that money unless it's, unless it's been KYSEAD at some point. I know we're still in the early stages of that and I'm not advocating for KYSEAD, either. You know, I think these issues are complex. But just the fact that you can follow the pattern of money gives out a lot of information, even if you don't know exactly who it's tied to in the moment. So I'd be very surprised if it ends up becoming a train. And it happens from time to time because people don't fully understand Bitcoin. They don't fully understand the tool that they're using and they don't understand the vulnerabilities either because, you know, these stories aren't as common as you think. If it was that successful, everyone would be using it for that already and they're not. They're using it for something else. And if you're honest and genuine with it, then, you know, you are still in a place where you can use it successfully at the moment. But criminals are not going to get away with that. Unfortunately, I also thought the Bitcoin ransom was too good to be true and not that it's a good thing. But I always also like it when Bitcoin's mentioned in any news story. There's no such thing as bad press. So I saw it and I instantly thought what turned out to be true, that the guy was probably faking wouldn't be great if you could not kidnap someone, put an address up someone, they send you a million dollars and you just walk away with a million. You didn't even kidnap anybody. They just sent you a million. Oh, it would be awesome. But yeah, it seemed kind of ridiculous, but it is exciting to have Bitcoin mentioned. And there is now a real world bias that's forming with these ATMs ripping off the old people and the, I don't know, mentally feeble. I don't want you to say people who get suckered, they get scammed. That's going to keep happening. That's going to keep being a problem for Bitcoin. Robert, what do you think about the Bitcoin ransom later turned out not to be true. But it's always nice to be mentioned in an ongoing number one story kind of kind of nice. Yeah, I'm not surprised that people are either doing this or pretending or trying to use an event to, like you said, walk away with a mill, a cool mill in Bitcoin. I'm not surprised. I think it's actually I would disagree with Victoria. I think this will continue and it will likely increase in number and size and so on and so forth. Just because Bitcoin is becoming monetized and so today I'm sure there's lots of incidents where people are demanding cash in ransom cases and things like that. And that doesn't make the news because it's just, of course, you're going to ask for cash, right? But as Bitcoin replaces the existing financial system, I would expect that the percentage of incidents like this would go up. But maybe at some point, we won't hear about as much of it just because it'll be more commonplace because Bitcoin is money. Right? And so that's kind of my feeling. It's kind of inevitable. And yeah, of course, you can trade Bitcoin on the main chain to some degree. But there's layer twos that are available now that you can use potentially, if you know what you're doing to, it's to move some Bitcoin and hide it. And where there's a world, there's a way, people will find ways around. So it's not as easy. I mean, my parents were robbed and we don't have the Bitcoin back. By an American, most likely, it looks like someone in Detroit was able to, you know, basically socially engineer my dear or old parents and rob them from their block stream all that thanks block stream for building a product that did not protect the money. But so anyway, it is amazing how easy it is for people to get scammed out of their money and it just keeps happening more and more from different attack vectors, social engineering, definitely a part of it. Ben Arck, what do you think about Bitcoin and ransom? It's a regular big Lebowski type event. As Robert was saying, you know, this could be in our advertisements for Bitcoin, you know, if you're going to collect a ransom, don't use cash, use crypto. Yeah, very sorry to hear that, Robert, that's horrible. My parents had to go through that. But I mean, like, yeah, I mean, it's a double-eye sword with any technology which gives people more liberty. It will then empower criminals to do criminal things, the internet, you know, whatever, like any technology. And that's why Bitcoin has always been a favorite, or has, yeah, pretty much always been a favorite since it emerged for you spy criminals. And then there's these criminal scammers now as well, which you're trying to just get as many sats as they can from wherever they can. I will also say that I would say 90% of the scammers out there and criminals out there, it's like, you know, some slaves and the golden triangle, you're being forced to scam people and then North Korea, like we're constantly being attacked, our servers from people trying to get our Bitcoin. And, you know, they're always infiltrating our groups and DMing people, pretending to be us. We have a, in our Telegram group for Olympics, we've got a few thousand people in them. We have like, in the name of the Telegram group, it's like LM bits, we know, we will not, we will not DM you. And if you get a DM from anyone, from kind of the core LM bits group, we sound professional, it's not us. Because quite often, I reach out to people and say, oh, I've been, this is professional support and blah, blah, and they send these incredibly professional sounding messages to people. And it's not us, it's like it's some slave and golden triangle just trying to accumulate sats and North Korea too. I would say 90% is, you know, state sponsored, organized crime, big offices of people just trying to scam people. I remember back in the day, it was like, it wasn't that long ago, you know, it was like 2020 or something, where I'm in mean fit, Jeff we're talking, we've seen, it's like we had a whole bunch of projects and we've very rarely found bugs and exploits because people just didn't attack our stuff because they liked it. And there was this issue in, it's something you've always had Linux like in, in free-no-pronsource things, they get exploited less because people respect them and like them, whereas they hated Microsoft, so they would always attack Microsoft software. And it was kind of similar just with Bitcoin and the stuff we were building, like even though there's all these honey parts everywhere, the attacks were pretty minimal. I would say it's the opposite now. I would say that we're constantly getting hammered and that's ultimately probably not a bad thing for the things we build because it hardens them. There was this incredible livestream I saw and it was on Twitter and it was some kid doing a livestream, shit coin trading. And for a brief second, it was on Twitter this week. For a brief second, his seed was on the screen. And then within like a few seconds, his wallets were just emptied of all the shit coins. And then this kid just has a rage quit and starts smashing up his keyboard and swearing and this brother comes running in or something. So yeah, I mean, they do, they monitor all the livestreams, they've got all the software running, like be careful, like people are trying to get a bare ass, that's a hard thing to keep their slippery and they're easy to drop, they're easy for the people to pick up. So just be very careful out there and keep your coins secure. But those now are ultimately good work being done on different ways in which you can secure your coins. But I just ultimately hope that I mean, there was a thing we used to talk a lot about, you know, Bitcoin was kind of framed as is criminal money. And it was, I think it was 2019 when you had the NHS hack in the UK where, and thus ransomware, where the story wasn't Bitcoin as the criminal money. It was more, there's some criminals who've done this ransomware, and they want Bitcoin. And then there was some explanations to what Bitcoin is. And it wasn't, they weren't saying the Bitcoin was the criminal thing, criminal technology. It was just like a technology which they wanted or preferred. And I think that's been, you know, the main narrative when it comes to crime in Bitcoin these days is it's not criminal money. It's just used by criminals. And I hope that continues because obviously it isn't criminal money. And then people who do hear about Bitcoin, I hope they go and binge watch Andreas Hansenopoulos videos and like learn about, you know, all the reasons that we think Bitcoin is cool and important. And then they learn about, you know, the promise of Bitcoin beyond these scammers and, you know, colonized and whoever else is just trying to steal your coins. Well, further record, while I don't think Bitcoin becoming criminal money again will be good, I do think that it's inevitable that we're going to go through an acceptance period where the banks try to co-opt it and control it like they have every other technology. And when they fail, they'll have no choice but to clear it as criminal money. And then we'll go through this cycle all over again and everyone will be all surprised. And I'll say no one could have predicted this. No one ever could have. But we're running out of time for this show. Let's go to Robert. He's got a major announcement about coincube.io. Go ahead, Robert. Oh, well, thank you, Thomas. Yeah, so I guess tying into my parents' sad story. I, you know, I had been planning to move their funds to a multi-sig set up. They were using the two key lock stream product where they hold a key on their server. And there's a key on the phone. I think their iPhone was hacked somehow. Probably, you know, my dad clicked on something and they were able to get access to the phone. And then they socially engineered him into giving them the four digit pin that unlocked the wallet. And then from there, they were able to drain it. So, yeah, it's really unfortunate. But out of that, and also other experiences I've had and just my history and Bitcoin, I, and also got married and had a son. And so, you know, I'm thinking more and more about inheritance and what the future looks like for my family. And so I decided to find a good solution. I found a product called the Ghana, which, which basically is the foundation of what I built, what I'm building. So I forked that product, forked that wallet. But yeah, I mean, it's a good, it's a good product. Obviously, I wouldn't have forked, I'd take it in for it if I didn't think it was. But there's just a lot that I want to add and kind of a vision I have to build. And so I ended up just running with it. So anyway, what I built so far and it is available and you can download it. It's of course, the software is open source. Fort from the ona added a liquid wallet. So I'm using the breeze SDK for that. So you can center see Bitcoin over lightning, liquid or on chain. And that's a spending wallet. So you don't want to hold a lot of money there. It's, you know, it's, it's using a hot key on the computer. So just keep that in mind. But, you know, for depending on your wealth, maybe a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars, you may not be too stressed about holding some money on that. And it makes it very easy to use day to day. And then there's the Leona product, which is basically now what I'm calling vault. And so we're, you know, it's a multi-sig. And it has a time lock using, it uses time locks. So essentially, you can have a second or a third spending path. And that only opens up if the coins haven't been moved for a certain amount of time. So sort of like a dead man's switch and a very cool feature. And so the idea would be if you pass on to the next life, you could have some inheritance keys that are held by family or friends or whoever. And they have access to those after a certain amount of time that's gone by. We're building another feature that's going to like connect to that. I'm calling keychain, but it'll basically be a way to very easily create private keys for Bitcoin on on a mobile device. You know, again, I wouldn't use that as your only key. Obviously, mobile phones can be hacked. But in a in a quorum of keys, I think it's not an unreasonable thing to have have a couple on different mobile devices. And that would make it very easy for family. You know, you can send your mom a link. She can install an app, create a key. And then that key is, you know, basically available to the wallet software using our API. And then finally, there's a buy cell feature that should be working in most jurisdictions. We've got a little bit of work to test that out. It's kind of difficult to test. But you should be able to buy and sell through K. Obviously, got a KYC with with one of the liquidity providers. And that's actually the same integration method that Blockstream uses for their app. It's meld is the company that we're partnering with on that. And but anyway, it's been really fun to build it. I'm proud of of what we've done so far. I've got a great team mostly based in Africa where I've been living enough for a few years. Nigerian and Kenyan developers, a lot of really smart young people working with me. But yeah, people should take a look and check it out more to come. You know, soon as I said, key chain is a product feature that we're going to be adding probably within a few months. And so more to come. But yeah, be happy to have people take a look and give me feedback. And that's I guess that's it. Well, sounds super cool. Robert, it'd be great to time lock your bitcoins and have an inheritance long term holding strategy rather than what we see so much of short term or the minute you put something on the exchange, you're probably going to sell it. And it's a lot better than what I heard in the past. People were giving pieces of their keys to their friends and scattering their keys all over the world. And sounds very dangerous. It's very dangerous to memorize your own keys, even printing them in metal, putting them under the house, things like this, be much better to have an online solution and have some options. So sounds really cool. Yeah, it's great. It goes into what we were talking about before that there's all this great innovation work being done on different ways in managing keys. And I love the way that you put time locking in there because I mean time locking is probably the most underused resource which we have in Bitcoin, you know, to time lock coins. And yeah, it's really cool. I like it. Well, yeah, I should say right now it doesn't allow you to lock. Well, maybe you could if you didn't make a primary spending path. I'm not thought about that. But generally, the idea is you have your key or keys that are your normal spend set up and those would be usable whenever to move the money. But the inheritance keys only are unlocked after a certain amount of time goes by and the UTXOs have not moved. So that's the current functionality. But yeah, I mean time locking that would be an even more intense way to to potentially give people an option, you know, to force tautil or something, you know, as you could call it. So that does kind of take the pressure off if you're like, well, I can't sell because time locked it. Like it's not really a choice of like should I have sold or should I have not have sold. I was time locked. I had no option. So yeah, when we figure out, when we figure out decent Oracle systems, you can have CTs. So you can time lock them to when a Bitcoin pits a certain price or something. But yeah, it's cool technology. Cool, cool. Yeah, no, I appreciate the feedback. I'll think and look into this idea of, you know, doing like a actual lock feature that's cool. Thank you. And Mal, they'd be locked down. Is Mal, so does Mal partner with exchanges or something? Is that what box dream you're using? I was interested in how they did not. Yeah, the last time I looked at least they were using meld. So meld partners with, I guess, like, I would probably call them more like on ramp, off ramp, transact is one of them. There's a bunch of different partners depending on the country you're in, it's going to be different. I haven't seen like big exchanges like Coinbase or Crack and or things like that. So it seems to be more of a niche where companies provide this kind of service. But yeah, it's pretty neat. I'm also thinking down the road I'd like to also look at a P2P, you know, peer-to-peer market solution. And there's some cool things happening. I saw a guy from, I think he's from Nigeria building something called Menmo, which looked quite cool. And he's actually using Noster for the communication layer, but he's basically, you know, his vision is his mission is to build a censorship proof peer-to-peer Bitcoin trading network. Early on in Noster, there was a lot of talk about a local Bitcoin's upnoster. And I spoke to Jeremiah's, the actual creator of local Bitcoins. And he's, I said, you know, if Loster existed, would you have built local Bitcoins upnoster? And he said, yes. So it's definitely low hanging fruit. So hopefully that guy does well and builds it because it needs to exist. It'd be perfect, yeah. And he did a demo that looked quite good. So, and he's building, you know, there would be APIs available and it's open source and everything. So yeah, I'm thinking we'll look into, you know, adding that to the wallet. But yeah, I mean, my vision is like, I want people to be able to bank with Bitcoin as their primary, you know, asset and to interface with the rest of the financial world safely where they're holding keys for themselves and, you know, doing it the right way. And so, yeah, after many years of painful lessons, I, you know, I even had even used CoinCube. I had actually launched as a, as a shit coin product about a decade ago that connected to exchanges and did like a portfolio of crypto assets, rebalancing. And then I got completely wiped out robbed of a lot of Bitcoin in 2018 on an exchange. And so yeah, I've kind of learned all of the hard lessons. And I'm, you know, hoping that I can help people avoid those mistakes that I made. And so, not your keys, not your coins, Bitcoin only. With that said, we will probably add in USDT support as well. I do see utility and stable coins. Of course, I prefer to do a completely Bitcoin sort of solution. There was like stable stats looked quite interesting from Galois, but that seems like that's kind of dead now. You know, I had been looking into DLCs, you know, five years ago for a potential kind of synthetic solution, but I haven't looked at that lately. So yeah, anyway, we'll just see, but, but short term will probably do USDT support. So, yeah, from a stand, so stable stats was actually a clone of some called standard sass, which is an incredible project, which no one cared about, because the developers were working on it with deeply rude and autistic and Rob Devon was the wrong way. But the technology was cool as fuck. And stable stats was basically like a clone of that. And it was kind of a shame that Galois did that at the time, but with the synthetics, the synths stable coin. But I know that Ilya from standard sass is working on something to create stable coins. I'll find his contact, because I did speak to him a while back, and I'll point him in your direction. I love to speak with him. He's a genius. Yeah, he's going to be the person who builds the solution at some point when he, you know, maybe needs to be a bit more amenable when he's speaking to people, but he's a kid's a genius. Oh, good. Yeah, sounds great, Robert. And people can check it out at coin, cube.io. And I'm sure you'll keep working on it and keep bringing back updates to us. And we'll have you back over that. Thank you, Dakota. Victoria Jones for a prediction or a story of the week, Victoria. Welcome back again. I know there's a lot of news this week. You just had to come back. Anything happening in your neck of the woods this week. Yeah, well, obviously I've got family commitments that I need to, that have been quite intense over the last six months. So I've really been focused on those, but I have just enough time to keep up with the gossip on Bitcoin, which is why I felt the need to come and join you, you guys in order to chat about it all today. But yeah, I don't have a specific prediction or any news at the moment, you know, my website is still very much on pause. But hopefully I'll get around to creating something new for you all in the near future. That sounds great. And people can check it out at satoshi's page.com. Let's go to Ben Ark for a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead, Ben. Oh, Ben's muted, keeping us in suspense. I was just, I was just closing all the notes parts I had with my keys on before I finished reading. Everyone had a turn this evening. Do you want to find the tweet, not tweet, the other thing, note. So, whether across the AI card, I want an AI companion or this. I was just a Zoom thing. Okay, that's going to be. Where is it? Oh, it's not there. It's a bit lame. They're trying to find a note from Wise Rabbit. So, Wise Rabbit, for those of you don't know, is this really artistic and interesting young person? Oh, man, why isn't it pulling away? Let us know. It's not annoying. I don't know if you could get him up on Twitter, Thomas. And he's been protesting outside DCB for years. Every day he's there with a different banner saying something witty and funny about Bitcoin. And he just stands outside DCB for like half an hour with this banner. And it drives him insane. And this week he actually got arrested because he went too close to DCB building and they pinched him on trespassing. So, there was a note he put out on Noster just asking for people to send some sats to help with legal stuff. And for me, when you see all the big finance, Bitcoin, blah, blah, blah stuff happening in the world, to see, can you find him on Twitter, Thomas, the Wise Rabbit? Let's see if you can find it. It was a reminder that it's important to keep Bitcoin weird. And it is protest money. And let me see if I can really want to find the message that it is protest money. It's a reminder of what I loved about Bitcoin, that is protest money. And he's boots on the ground every day outside the European Central Bank with these goofy signs. And it was quite funny because his actual mug shot was him. He was holding a helium balloon with an alien which was holding up his middle finger as he was taking his mug shot. So he's very artistic and interesting in person. So yeah, good luck to him. And if you can, dig out that tweet, note whatever on Noster and send that kid some sats up, be great. Other than that, just being grinding hard in Alan Bits, we got like a gazillion cool things to launch. And then we're sort of, they're all ending up being launched around about the same time. And I've got some, yeah, the merchant solution we now have in Alan Bits is great. I use it in my own shop and it can handle Bitcoin payments, fair payments. And you can push to your bookkeeping solutions like QuickBooks or whatever. And then it DMs me every time there's a sale in the shop so I get it on Noster when it DMs me and we have a chat. I'm going to make some videos and put them on the Alan Bits YouTube. So watch out for those. Because I think it's really useful, really useful kind of tool and try your cheap to run and actually put kind of put Alan Bits just out there as a competitive merchant solution just for points of sale, you know, outside of Bitcoin. So yeah, looking forward to making those and finishing all those up. But apart from that, check out the WiseRapit and send in some sats. That sounds great, Ben. Thanks for that update. This week I got to try out ClaudeBot. Like many others, I bought a Mac Mini and I put this AI agent on there. I didn't find it especially easy to use or configure. Eventually we did get Claude to talk to Claude. That's confusing. And we did get Claude to control the web browser, which was pretty exciting. We could ask it things like, you know, who is mad bitcoins or tell us what page is on the browser right now. And it told us all the information. It could manipulate all the data on the page. So if you wanted to say, take all of these columns and add them up from this web page. It could do that very easily. The main thing that I learned as a user is that it eats tokens like mad. The thing went through my five dollars of Claude API time and no time at all. I gave it another five dollars and it burned right through that as well. So a lot of people are spending most of their time configuring ClaudeBot to use another model. I've heard kimchi is popular and that you could use that other model to control the computer. Of course, this leads to a lot of complicated configuration and noodling. So it's still very early. It's not a consumer product yet. But the idea of having a a gentick AI that runs a computer that reports to you that uses other AI's through the browser or through the computer is still a very good one and a very exciting one. A lot of stuff's happening there has been and Robert mentioned Noster. There is a Claude or a Malt for Noster now. They're attempting to use it as one of their backends. I think it's a really good idea for their potential communications problems to use an open network like Noster. They've also used Malt book this week, the Facebook for ClaudeBots or Open ClaudeBots. And I can't report to you that Malt book was founded by Matt Select. I probably said his name wrong, but he was an early bit corner. He worked with Follow the Coin and he worked at Draper University and I got to meet him a couple times. So a really small world out there of people messing around with computers. Matt had some really exciting AI projects before this. One of them was called Yes, No Error and he or the AI would basically analyze research papers and where it could, it would test their conclusions. Yes, No Error. I thought it was a great idea. I thought that might go viral, but he's gone mega viral with Malt book. So shout out to Matt. I'm sure he's doing great now. And if you want to try out ClaudeBots, let me know in the comments or the chat below if you had great success or not. I think a lot of the posts out there right now or like Claude did all my things, did all my trading was perfectly magical and I think those are made up. But there is stuff you can get done. It is a neat new technology. So try it out. Suggestion, of course, I'm sure you know, don't try it out on your home computer. Get another computer, get another login, get a they have cloud workers at Open Flair. Keep this thing away from your data. Like we just don't know what it's going to do. It's deleted PhDs data. It's lost a key for Bitcoin recently. The chat with that was horrible. The guy said, what happened to my key? He's like, you never told it to me. Oops. I goofed on that one. The AI says, so Ben, you have one more thing to say. Go ahead, Ben. Yeah, I managed to dig out the the Nostra note. So here he is. That's his mug shot, which I thought was great. And yeah, he's been bitch on the ground in the rain and wind. Still there with his signs outside the European Central Bank. Keeping Bitcoin weird. So here is a QR code to the Nostra note. You can go there, zap him. I think it'll be greatly appreciate it because I think he's in a little bit of trouble for, you know, getting a little bit too close to the ECB. And Starship agrees with us in the chat says, yeah, they're not secure. Keep them on your own between. He's not even sure you trust a VM. There's been reports we don't know if they're real of these machines finding credit cards on the internet, ordering people food, you know, texting their girlfriends, texting their wives, all kinds of things. A lot of things are happening. It's hard to tell which are real, which are stories. I think if it's too good to be true, it's probably a story. This thing is not a solve all. It's not a cure all. It is very exciting AI technology, though. And you can try it out for free. Suggest use an old laptop, use an old Mac mini or something, try it out. But let me know in the chat, they say the, the bots have also created a new religion crustopharia. So it's happening fast over there. They've made a porn hub for a malt books. They've made an only fans. They've made a LinkedIn. They have some new thing where the bots can pay humans to do things for them. So the human could bring them a pizza or have a protest sign outside, like Ben was saying, maybe in the future, he can just pay people through one of these interfaces. They just have the bots say, I'd like you to solve world peace. And the bot just hires people to protest. Who knows? It's exciting stuff. But it's a lot more to configure than you might think. So check it out. Thanks to everybody for joining us. Be sure to give us a thumbs up down below, push subscribe if you haven't already. And we'll be back again next week. Until next time. Bye.