The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's the best Bitcoin's, the hardest crypto currency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Ben Arck from LNBITS. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one, the price of Bitcoin. The price of Bitcoin is down 0.3% in the last 24 hours, with the last of 84362 and seemingly rising, with a high of 84,759 and a low of 81,151. That's $1 for 1,186 Satoshi's. Our top story is also the price of Bitcoin. Bitcoin tumbles to $83,000 as heavy liquidations and fed uncertainty way. The price of Bitcoin retreated sharply on Friday, falling to the lowest level over two months after a wave of forced liquidations hit leverage traders, well investors waived the potential impact of a Federal Reserve leadership change, as well as the trouble in the Japanese market and many other fun and exciting macro effects on the Bitcoin price. Of course, the Bitcoin Magic 8 Ball predicted that the price would go down last week, so all you had to do was listen to the ball. That's as simple as it gets. Ben Arck, welcome back to the show. What do you think about the price, the price, the price of Bitcoin? Yeah, I mean, it's Bitcoin's a risk asset still, which is kind of sad because we don't want it to be a risk asset. We want it to be a safe haven in choppy markets. And when things get bad in the markets, but we have a thick layer of fire and ants on Bitcoin, traditional finance and traders, because of that, it's a risk asset. We need more commodity use cases for Bitcoin. We need Bitcoin users money. We need the program, a bit of programmability of Bitcoin to be explored more. So we can use it as a point of truth in our digital world, which is incredibly valuable. It has all these, like an infinite amount of commodity use cases. But if you look at safe havens such as gold, they have all these commodity use cases and Bitcoin doesn't have that yet, which means that when there's the threats of less liquidity in the market, people are going to pop out of Bitcoin and they're going to go somewhere else, going to put their money in gold. When there's more liquidity in the market, then Bitcoin's price is going to go up. And that's like the age old thing, which you can trade against it. When liquidity is abundant, risk assets go up. When liquidity tightens, risk assets go down. And currently Bitcoin is a risk asset. Which is sad. And you have to think again about some of the thought leaders you have in Bitcoin who claim that it should only be used for X, Y and Z and ultimately keeps it restricted. Does it risk asset? It should be a safe haven. It should have that digital gold property, which people can bet on in choppy times and choppy markets. Well, I think the reason it doesn't have that yet is we're still a secondary asset. People have to sell their Bitcoin to cover their stock market losses and to keep especially their shorts and longs in the stocks alive. A lot of the losses we've also seen have been people who are shorting the long in the market. They think that it's finally over and that it's finally going to move clearly in one direction. And then Bitcoin does the exact opposite, moving up, moving down, destroying shorts, destroying longs. It just keeps happening. If you hold the underlying asset, you're okay. You're okay as someone who holds something that was worth 120 and now it's worth 82 can be, but you're better off than someone that lost their entire position. And again, I think people are having to sell their Bitcoin to cover their stock market losses. We saw a gold drop. We saw silver drop. We saw the market drop. They all recovered. Bitcoin didn't recover. I'm tired of that. I'm tired of that happening as well as Bitcoin taking the 24-7 news hit. If anything bad happens on the weekend, Bitcoin goes down. Then on Monday when the news hits the normal market, Bitcoin goes down a second time. Hopefully if we get that tokenized stock market that they're promising us, that will make the markets more reactive. And then we can all go down at the same time. Ben, what do you think more on the markets and the price? I just think we need to make that wide- your finance and tradeism. We need to make that thinner. We have a whole bunch of people who just hold Bitcoin. These are a store of value and that's great. You need to make that bigger. There's more in commodity use case. And then we use it as money. We'll figure out ways in which we can have stable minimum exchange on Bitcoin more more people use it as money. Figure out things we can do. I mean, it's just the answer. I'm most secure point of truth, which exists in the digital world. It has immense value. And we just need to build out those applications more and not suppress them. Because actually that's the thing which makes Bitcoin a safe haven, ultimately. And if it always is always just this trading is filled. And yeah, when there's risk in the market, people will pull out and when there's liquidity, people will buy it, opposite speculative thing. So we need to make that wedge of trade. Well, I definitely watch out for what people are saying in the chat. If you're going to try out Claude bought on your Mac mini, I wouldn't keep any Bitcoin keys on there. Ben and I were talking about before the show, there's been some large databases released by the US government. And maybe you'd want to look through there for some Bitcoin keys. I can imagine the same thing would be true of any Claude or Malt or AI that you have access to your local hard drive. That's why again, it's such a good idea. To have a treasurer or a ledger or whatever hardware wallet where your keys are off and separate from your computer. It's going to get really interesting in the future. A lot of these things. People are giving access to their AIs on purpose to let them do things. Part of the Google selling pitch is that they already have your email. Why not let us have the AI read your email, then we'll predict the future of what you want or whatever the, I'm not sure what the sell is, but it'll be great for you. Yeah, when it comes to discovering hidden treasure AI is great for that and it'll borrow its way deep into your system and then read all those emails and figure out where your keys are kept and yeah. We were saying just before the show because we had the app steam dump of all those files. I was like looking through for the Bitcoin wallet. I was like, I'm sure this guy's got a Bitcoin wallet somewhere in here. So you're looking through and there was some really interesting things which I may have been out already, but I found a lot of communication with between Epstein and Jerry Ruben, who's a core developer and then Brian Bishop as well. It was just on technical stuff, you know, nothing gross. And then really early on 2011, there was an email meeting, there was an arranging to meet as a direct norm. The guy who set up one of the first Bitcoin exchanges with the MetaCain, Gavin and Jason, they were from like 2011 and Epstein was trying to stem about Bitcoin. So I was like, I didn't find a Bitcoin wallet, but I did find out that Epstein was a Bitcoin which was, you know, bittersweet. We've had some previous reports they thought Epstein might have been like working on the Bitcoin project or new Satoshi or something like that, but I'm pretty sure he's just, he was a big finance guy, he had tons of money and if you wanted money, whether for Bitcoin or any other technical project, I figured you'd line up and try to get that money from him. So he was sort of skeptical because there was an email from him to, I think it was, I got him the name, like a friend in between who's connecting a MetaCain, Gavin and Jason to Epstein. And in that email, Epstein was being skeptical saying that he thinks it's a great idea, but he also thinks there's a bunch of flaws in Bitcoin. But then later on he seemed to be obviously having no communication with Jeremy Rubin in the night of 2014-15. So clearly he, but it sort of played against because in my head I was like, I was just going to scour his an idiot and you know, he probably just got money from like extortion, I'm ripping off that old guy and having all the sturt on people. But I guess he was like, you know, involved in the business community, you know, like it's to be having emails and raging meetings with Bitcoin in 2011. It was, you know, the kind of got your finger on the pulse set and you know, even a horrendous person of course. It is so funny which laws he would break, which laws he wouldn't break. He's like, oh, that's a finance law. Oh, you could get a lot of trouble for that one. I wouldn't do it. But we've got to move on to the exit question predicting against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the source of all truth of this or any other universe. Ben Arck will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Keep in mind that the ball is always right and was right yet again, right? Last week. I think as long as the room was persist on this Kevin Warsh, becoming the new head of the Fed, then the price is going to continue to go down because the market's just going to have less money in them. It doesn't sound good. I'm always bullish. So I'm going to stick with that. Well, let's check out the ball. What will the price of Bitcoin? Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? And it says. You may rely on it. You may rely on it. The ball is very positive about the price of Bitcoin. Moving on to issue two, Binance to shift $1 billion user protection fund into Bitcoin amid so-called market route. Binance will convert the stablecoin holdings of its $1 billion safe-food fund into Bitcoin for the next 30 days with plans for regular audits and to boost the fund if it falls below $1 billion. The last time Binance did this in 2023, they boosted the price of Bitcoin, Ethereum and others, perhaps causing the giant 2023 rally. Ben Ark is this it is Binance providing the rocket fuel over the next 30 days, buying a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin. Yeah, it's interesting. Well, I'm not sure whether it will really touch the sides, not a billion dollars. But yeah, dipping in and out of Bitcoin to the bottom downturns, it's a kind of interesting play by Binance. I was another who also was talking about doing this as well, committing some cash to Bitcoin to, oh, that's another story. A very similar story of someone who's going to be liquidity Bitcoin. Michael Seller put another 250 million in. Micro strategy keeps buying Bitcoin every few weeks, putting a large amount in. I don't think it's, I don't think a billion is enough to really move or back up the price. I mean, I applaud this by CZ and I also applaud it by CZ knowing, at least from the publicly available history, that CZ is a heavy holder of Bitcoin spoiler alert. So of course, it's great for him to back up Bitcoin to choose that as the asset. It's interesting that the last time they also did Ethereum and maybe another coin, maybe even some stable, something like that. This time, they're going all in on Bitcoin really making it the backbone or the underlying rail of this cryptocurrency industry. But a little terrifying too, because as the price suddenly drops to 82 and everyone starts freaking out, if they feel like they need to shore up the market, that's not great. Ben, what do you think? It's got technical issues. I also heard one of the original Bitcoiners, one of those kids that bought Bitcoin the day. I'm going to keep going. I'll spare a billion line around. Sorry, my, I think my instant connection coming up sucks. Yeah, if you've got a billion dollar sign around, if you know that the Bitcoin price is never simply going to go up more than, you know, why not? So well done, CZ for putting your money in there. So he knows the price is going to go off. He's got the billion dollars lying around, whatever. This could be a mirror of the classic move that Josh is always talking about when Tether, near the bottom of Bitcoin, went in heavy, perhaps even using customer reserves and other funds. But because they won, nobody ever talks about it. They made good money. They won. If Binance does the same here, they could be big winners. As I was saying earlier, I've heard some early like kid that bought Bitcoin and sold all of his. So a lot of large whales are exiting the market. But perhaps they're just being replaced by new whales. Ah, new whales moving on to issue three issue three, Kevin Warsh, markets reactors, quote, pro Bitcoin economist tipped for the Federal Reserve. Kevin Warsh is apparently a fan on Bitcoin. He said that they should have a not have a condescending tone during a talk show. And he defended the Bitcoin saying that it was not evil. However, he doesn't see Bitcoin as a threat to the dollar and the Federal Reserve. He sees Bitcoin as more of a barometer as he says an important asset that can help inform policy makers when they are doing things right or wrong. He says, quote, it is not a substitute for the dollar. But he thinks it can often be a very good policeman for policy. He says that software cannot be good or evil. It could be both. He also says that, you know, you need to, let's see, hedge Bitcoin a little bit. He's worried about gold and the selloffs. But mainly there's an issue where he wants to continue QE, but not hold assets, something where it could continue money printing, keep interest rates low, but not boost the stock market, which is what everyone wants. Thus the stock market is not very happy with the so far with the pick of Warsh. Previously, they believe that they are going to get the head of black rock in there. Seems like a more experienced gentleman who would probably do the traditional QE where they lower rates and buy stocks by assets, drive up the price of everything, and essentially save the market, which is what the market is asking for. Instead the market is getting this guy who also was up for the job a few times previous and beaten out by others like Jerome Powell. Ben Arck, what do you think about the potential new Federal Reserve Chair in the United States? I mean, if you watch that video with him when he talks about Bitcoin and he kind of corrects the interviewer on Bitcoin, he asks him, I think the interviewer just sort of frames Bitcoin in a bad light. And then he corrects him and he's like, no, this thing is really important. You should, I mean, the still which is there is taken from the video, it's kind of not hard to find. And he's a Bitcoin, he knows Bitcoin, he knows it well and he explains it very well. However, he's not someone who's going to flood the market with an liquidity. He's going to see someone who's going to tie and shoot and apply this house to economics to the US economics, which means that there's going to be less liquidity out there, which means that risk assets go down. So yes, he is a Bitcoiner and he's favourable to Bitcoin, he understands Bitcoin very well. But he will also probably do a bunch of things for the economy, which will mean that there's less liquidity. The markets will, I don't have the liquidity to put into a risk asset like that. Well, as we've seen in the past, Trump always chickens out. So maybe there's a possibility, he changes his mind on Warsh as he sees the markets reacting poorly, large investments, how it's impacting poorly, everyone's selling, everything complete disaster, maybe he'll change his mind. But we're going to continue monitoring this situation. It was just announced, I believe this morning, that Warsh is going to be the pick. Looks like Walsh, but it's Warsh. Moving on, check out worldcryptonetwork.com where it says we've been going for 12 years, two months and zero days. Happy birthday, worldcryptonetwork or something like that anyway. Check it out at worldcryptonetwork.com, worldcryptonetwork. Q4, UAE Central Bank has approved a USD backed stablecoin. The USDU stablecoin issued by Universal Digital, a crypto firm regulated by the financial services regulated authority, FSRA of Abu Dhabi global markets. Again, as other countries continue to pass the US launching official stablecoins and Grand Forks detective says if you or someone online asks for Bitcoin or gift cards, you're being scams. Then arc, which issue would you like to talk about? The new Abu Dhabi USD coin and the continued spread of both stablecoins and cryptocurrency or crypto cryptocurrency, light technology in the world or the Grand Forks detective who is pretty much painted Bitcoin as scammer money. Q4, UAE Central Bank has approved a USD backed stablecoin. I quite like this quote that's a detective guy because he's like anyone who asks to be paid in Bitcoin as a scammer and I was thinking about all the people I paid to work on that and bit stuff and I was thinking about scammers. The reality is if you run a business and you pay people in cash, you pay them in Bitcoin, Bitcoin is so easy. Someone gives you an address, you send them some money and like paying for stuff like the services we run, it's easier as well and then just when you have to engage, like I know for all of the bits of the company we have like four bank accounts, this bank is so complicated and messy and then you get unbanked, you get bogged by someone because you've done a full control over his sucks like traditional banking does suck. We should never lose sight of the fact that Bitcoin is just far superior technology as a payments technology. I like that quote that anyone who wants to be paid in Bitcoin is a scammer because I was like, well, these bitcoins, I get what he's saying. Anyone who reaches out to a normal person and asks for you to go to an ATM and put cash in and send to their Bitcoin address, yeah, they're probably a scammer. But then on the other story, so I'm just going to hop in on that story if you don't mind. The UIE. Let me talk about that first one first. Oh, sorry, yes, please. I agree with you, Ben. I think he's definitely painting us a scammer money, but I think this is part of a continuation of pretty much the end of Bitcoin ATMs. We've been showing you story after story of the FBI calculating how much money's lost, local story here, local story there. Bitcoin ATMs are basically acting like a vacuum cleaner bringing in scam victims. I think there's a large pool of elderly scam victims out there who the simple advice that the guy is saying, if anyone asks you for Bitcoin, they're probably a scammer, they're not going to hear that advice. They're not going to get it. They're going to have this thing where they think that their relatives are kidnapped or the IRS wants money and they're going to go to the Bitcoin ATM and it's horrible to hear the story. We've said many times about our friend who had to stop the lady from putting the money in. Yet again, that this kid had to stop this old man from putting 2000 in. It sounds like they have a reasonable limit. They've locked it at 2000 a day, but still in 10 days, the old man could send them the 20,000 they want, completely drained his account. If it wasn't for a nice kid at the shop who thought to himself, yeah, this old man doesn't know anything about Bitcoin. He's not investing in crypto. He's getting scammed. I think more and more of those machines are going to be seen as scam entry points and they're going to be removed. It's going to be this thing. Oh, yeah, you used to be able to go to local Bitcoins. Oh, yeah, you used to be able to buy it in ATM. But now you've got to meet a dealer in the back alley to get your Bitcoin. Which is a massive shame for remissances, for example. The great application of remissances for Bitcoin. If you're a cash dollar worker in the US and you want to send money back home, then Bitcoin is great. It doesn't charge you the 10%, 15%, that you get charged for moving money. What's that big company? I just saw the money for moving money from one country. Western Union. Yeah, Western Union, yeah, Western Union. It's interesting, because I remember, but Kelly when he was talking, because our Salvador's money was like 95% of GDP was remissence money from people working on a way and sending it back home. And most of them are using Western Union. So Western Union was getting 10%, probably about 10% of the country's GDP. And yeah, it's great if you could just stick it into a Bitcoin ATM and send it via Bitcoin to a country like that. So it is a shame that these scammers are ruining all the fun for the rest of us as they all. They certainly are and I don't think we'll have any choice as well as on the other one. UAE. Let's ask the coin. Go ahead, Ben. Yeah, no, you'd you want to go first on this one? I don't know. I don't have that much to say, but I just think again, it's, I think other countries are experimenting with stable coins. They're experimenting with Bitcoin. They're getting out there ahead of it. You know, certainly you wouldn't say these days that, you know, UAE or Abu Dhabi's a backwards place. Clearly they're ahead of things here with finance. They have incredible skyscrapers and so on and so forth. Just a future looking, looking move. I think we're going to see other countries experiment with stable coins and it just, it just sounds like again, like from, you know, unexpected places, you don't have to be in Silicon Valley to have a stable coin. You know, you can have your own new Silicon Valley that seems like they're developing there and it just seems like another international as well that worth keeping in high on. Ben, what do you think about the UST? Yeah, I mean, like the, I mean, when you talk about GDP, so I think it's speculated 20% of their GDP is illicit funds. There's no secret that Dubai. I love the leaders of organized crime have places, you know, in Dubai. Because once you get the money in there, you can kind of spend it. No one cares. You can just buy whatever you want with cash. So this, this certainly helps to serve that economy of users who need cross-border flows without too many questions. And yeah, so the, the, it's interesting, like the UAE running straight to the finish lines and not having all these white papers and committees and whatever else and just creating the stable coin. I mean, I hate stable coins. I mean, mostly all completely ballocks and I hate them. I do like the idea of stable media moving strange on Bitcoin, but we're not there yet. But the rest of the world, you know, they do find a lot of use in these stable coins. And yeah, I really think it's just to play the UAE, realize, I mean, they're panicking, you know, like they're, they're, they're, they've rested on the laurels for so long when it comes to that oil reserves and the amount of money they make from oil. And that's a, you know, eventually a dwindling supply and the less people are going to use oil as we move into the future. So they, you know, they've tried to expand into tourism, whatever else. And one of their most successful expansions has been into safe haven for a lot of gangsters who need to move money across borders. So they have this huge incentive to make something like a US, you know, a stable coin, which they can, these people can use. So it would be interesting to see how that translates to the rest of the world, like where else this USD, what is it USDU? USDU, is that what it's called? USDU. Yeah, USDU. It would be interesting to see what else it pops up and how many criminal cases end up seizing USDU. But yeah, we'll see. Well, I think we'll see the same thing we saw last week with Tether, where people feel and realize all the wrong way that USDU can also be frozen, can also be reversed. It isn't like Bitcoin, everyone like Bitcoin. Oh, it means this. Therefore, every copy is the same. Every copy is not the same. But what I think is especially interesting about this story, Ben, is that we're seeing country level fights now. We used to see coin bays versus Tether and, you know, their companies or Binance. These are very large companies. But now we're seeing entire countries start to fight. And as horrible as it may sound, if we really look at the core of this, you know, SIR, they're stable coins and they're backed and they're great. But it's almost like an ICO. It's almost like the UAE is having an ICO and maybe the EU will have an ICO and the United States is far behind, but eventually will launch their own ICO coin. And eventually you have to figure as much as we want to say, this is worth a dollar. Even the United States stable coin be worth a dollar and ten cents. Maybe the British won a dollar eighteen. I mean, when they start having a choice and maybe it comes back to this, the first thing we said about the censorship, maybe there's more censorship on USD, EU coin. Maybe there's less on the United States coin. Maybe there's more on the British coin. Maybe this affects the value beyond just being stable as of what you can use it for, which again goes back to even if Bitcoin becomes this background currency that people use for, you know, drugs and illegal oil and, you know, mercenary transactions. It's still useful, still valuable, still a thing. But maybe just not as good for everybody. What do you think Ben? Sorry, I was on a little side quest. I don't know if she's watching, but one of the best reporters in Bitcoin, Lola, where she was asking, supposed to about the app. She was asking me about that. So I was just saying it'd be a great heart cult. Because it's so juicy. I mean, just going to those app, see if I was in search for Bitcoin. Sorry, I'm going off track here, but there's a lot of correspondence. And there's also all these decks from a lot of Bitcoin companies by Coinbase from back in the day. So clearly, he was investing in the industry, which is just, I think, as a Bitcoin, it's very interesting lens to look at the whole thread of data. I think there's a lot of articles there. I think they could definitely do one just on the pitch decks of the Epstein files, not just Bitcoin, maybe do the tech ones too, just as like a who's who of who is pitching Epstein. And also a great interesting indicator there would be, like you're saying, he's so early. He's pretty much, I don't know, it's kind of like Ash and Kutzer, right? He's this early investor guy. I'm sure Ash and Kutzer gets a lot of emails from Bitcoin people and other ridiculous things they want him to invest in. And certainly just because he got the email or had the meeting, doesn't mean he invested, but you could also do kind of a ticker of how much money he could have made. And maybe he didn't have to do all the trafficking and all this evil shit. He could have just made money on Bitcoin. It would have been so much easier. It doesn't have to hurt anybody. But yeah, I tell you, I tell you the weird bit is the Charlie me, Rupin, he must have been very gifted and great core developer who I love. But he has quite a lot of correspondence with Epstein. And it's quite friendly. But it's on a, it's a technical thing they're talking about technical stuff, which is interesting to see him go from this journey in 2011 where clearly he's being approached by to invest in like an only Bitcoin company. And there's a bunch of decks from his Bitcoin companies. And then he ends up being quite technical with one of Bitcoin's core developers. So I would say he was sticking the weeds by 2014. So yeah, probably put a bunch of money. I mean, he had a lot of money, probably put a bunch. And I mean, Chris, you imagine if you put a million dollars into Bitcoin in 2014, like what was the price at 2014? Three hundred dollars, four hundred dollars, also a million times there. How does that work? Well, we know 80,000. Math. Math. Yeah. So what would a million dollars be back then? How many Bitcoins did that buy you? Gone Thomas. Three thousand, three thousand, three thousand, three thousand. Holy smokes. How much would that be worth now? I mean, I know, three thousand. Three thousand Bitcoins. Let's see. Around two hundred and forty six million dollars, two hundred and forty six million for one million investment. Well, never sorry. Well, never too late. And then it's also great that a mere talky friend of the show, we've met him at several conventions and stuff is mentioned in the files. And now we're all two degrees from Epstein. And if you're watching this now, you're three degrees from Epstein. So we're just closer and closer to this thing than we would be. Yeah, I would like to clarify as well that, yeah, I'd like to clarify as well that in 2011 when he was talking to a mere talky, he sounded quite skeptical of Bitcoin. And I couldn't find anything else that he had actually invested in that company. But yeah, it's interesting. Some interesting historical documents. If somebody tells you that Epstein was in the Bitcoin early, tell them no, he didn't like Bitcoin. So that just proves Bitcoin is good by the reverse principle. Anything he likes is bad. Anything dislikes is actually good. So yeah, I'll be interesting to see if Lolo comes out with an article about that. I hope to see it. Like you see Ben, it's really easy to search for Bitcoin. And I'm sure people smarter than us are using regular expressions and all kinds of things searching for those magic words or magic keys or maybe even just search for the word password in there. Who knows what's going on in these. I mean, that's not quite a redacto. It does have an API so you could make a little program which just searches through all the bit 39 words. And then sees if you can start, I mean, there's going to be a bunch in that. And then, you know, maybe there's like a hidden seed in there somewhere. Well, obviously you shouldn't do this, but going back to this earlier topic. And I think I don't know what it is about Claudebot and Malt or whatever, but it just captures the mind that you could have a Mac mini, you know, $500, whatever it is, $1000. Plug it in, put this software in there, not know very much. Plug the software on and then have an AI that according to the reports would like text you stuff. And then the thing that there's a strange thing where people are like, I want to have my own AI because they don't trust the AI that say open AI or somebody's providing, right? Because you don't want to give your bank account to that. But then they're like, if I had a local AI, I would trust it completely and give all of my horrible details like my phone and my bank and maybe their jokes, but there's all this stuff about people leaving their computer on overnight and letting it do whatever and having the bot do it. So, of course, you should definitely not. And then there's a new thing, I think, Cloudflare set up a thing you can just do this online now. You don't need the Mac mini. So you can just pay Cloudflare. But you definitely shouldn't set up a bunch of honeypots like this to get everybody's Bitcoin keys with this, run your own AI nonsense scam. Nobody should do that. Yeah, there's the, do you remember the film The Game with Michael Douglas where early on, they're just asking like a couple of hundred questions and from those questions, they're able to figure out what all this passwords are on and they're able to kind of like back door his whole life and then create this game for him which they could run through. That's the thriller that's the plot of the film. It's a bit like that, like a human beings. We don't have that much entropy. We say the same words, same phrases and it's probably very easy to build a mental model of somebody. It's not for their data and then from that mental model, it's probably quite easy to figure out, you know, whether it would hide their bit, Quincy, or whatever. Or, yeah. So, so it's definitely an attack vector when you have these AI's which have access to your data. But it's almost the same thing as the game. I really want to go back and watch that again, but I don't think I've seen it since it came out. I thought I'd watch it more, but it is kind of a twist once you know the twist. I'm not sure if you're into it. To think about, you know, he's a board rich guy and he wants to play this game. He's interested. So he's willing to do the interviews, willing to give them the information. Everybody out there is just a board computer user and what they really want is this artificial intelligent assistant that's going to improve their lives and do all their stuff for them. So they're willing to give them all their data and to give them even a whole Mac mini to play around or a cloud flare instance in a docker container. I think it's going to work out terribly. It's a terrible idea. It is a terrible idea. It's interesting how it's like it's it's deceptively good. You're like, if I controlled the AI, it will be good. If open AI controls the AI, it will be bad. But the reality is neither of you open AI nor you can control the AI. You have no idea what this program is going to do. The idea, first of all, when they when they said it could control computers and they're like, okay, we're sandboxing, you know, you can it'll move the mouse. That was enough for me. And now they're like, it can control a computer and this is good because you want it texting your mom and you want it like depositing money into your account and you want it creating a religion overnight on the, you know, cloud bot forum or whatever is going on out there. It's it's fascinating how fast it moves as well. But the the you know, the bigger the bigger models, the open AI, whatever else. Like they might have energy which has to be consumed in order to make it good. I'm not sure that these local models and these local AI is going to be able to compete with that to be honest. It's obviously going to it has enough to be dangerous. That's even worse than if you imagine a local model or even a darker model or having a smaller brain than say the open AI brain or whatever. Now you have a small brained assistant trying to do your tasks like there's much more possibility. I've heard a researcher gave all his data to AI and I don't understand this in today's day and age, but he apparently had no backups and the AI deleted all of his data. So that's one with like half for backup. That was one with the company wasn't it where the AI had deleted their entire database and then there was this funny thread where they were saying, have you deleted the database and the AI was like, yes, I have. That's all happy about it. I saved us so much space and so much time. Like think about how much time you wasted updating that database that I've saved you. It's all happy. Yeah, and so fast, dude. It'll listen. Shout out to DJ Booth in the chat. Oh, DJ Booth. Joining us all the way from Australia, the creator of the World Crypto Network and Mad Bitcoin web pages. Oh, DJ. Well, then the first to create a Kickstarter on Bitcoin. That's right. The Kickstarter. The idea is that there's fantastic. Yeah, DJ Booth is intelligent. Yeah, I was really good. I built a lot of it. I built a lot of it. It helped fuel the Canadian trucker protest. Yeah, that was amazing. Yeah, that was amazing. I was in favor of it, but I was in favor of them having an ability to raise money. So that worked. It was cool. Do you remember it popping up on the news on the traditional news through the traditional press when they started talking about tally coin shows? We saw some of that stuff. We were like, wow, we made it. They acted like there was a real fundraising platform. Like it was, oh, yeah, a tally coin or go fund me or one of these platforms. And it's like, really, that's just like an interface on top of Bitcoin. Like you could just use Bitcoin. But, you know, it was great interface. Well, I think we're running out of time here. Ben, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Anything you'd like to say at the end of the show? Well, really just slugging away. I built a whole bunch of cool, well, and bits extensions. We made a chat one more recently, which I'm going to do a video for and make public. So you can do like paid chats and you can like have one of them that will embedded chat link things in your website. And then I also built a cool reverse proxy one to so you can easily make like a reverse proxy. Because that's always a hurdle for people when they install the software. It's like how do they open all the ports to get the outside world access to it? So yeah, we've just been slugging away an element bit. So I don't, yeah, I don't really have a life outside of that. So that's all the bit up to you. But yeah, watch out, keep your eye out for the videos and whatnot we release. But the software is really coming along. It's really quite exciting. Also with the NOSR as well, I'm seeing a lot of cool projects in NOSR. That's quite exciting. And yeah, I think 2026 is going to be an interesting year. Well, I just want to close by talking about Dune. I think a lot of people are seeing the Dune movies and they're getting just a little taste of the kind of Dune mythology. But I think it's going to take them too long to get to the heavy, meaty parts of Dune. I think you can get there faster if you read the books or listen to the audio books if you must. Anyway, at the core of Dune, besides all the desert and all the spice and stuff, they have a ban on AI. They have a ban on thinking machines. And Herbert was very concerned about thinking machines. And the characters in the book explain that the navigators need the spice so that they can do hyperspace jumps and plot them through space. They use the spice like a drug. Other people use the spice, the Benic, just use the spice to predict the future, again, future predictive powers jumping through space, predicting the future of governments and society and civilizations, far seeing the kind of things that we're using our AI for, our large language models. And they say that they had tons of problems with the computers, you know, maybe not killing everyone, but making everyone bored and dumb and uninteresting and untalented. And that humans actually lost their talents because the computer became so great. And if you get into the later books of Dune, which are not going to become movies in our lifetime if ever, especially the fourth book, God Emperor of Dune, where kind of a spoiler alert, but a certain character emerges with a sandworm. So now you've got a character living 10,000 years. And he goes into the future and you don't know any of the characters, you don't know any of the religions, the characters that you read about in the first three Dune books, the trilogy, seem like a legend, you know, like the old days. And to you, they're real because you just read them. But if you get to the fourth book and then the fifth and the sixth, and then the seventh and eighth book, which Herbert was unable to finish, which were written by his son and Kevin Anderson, who wrote some of the Star Wars books that are really good. So there's a lot of books out there. There's a lot of information out there and you'll get there faster if you go through the books and don't just wait for the movies because they're still working on the first book in the movies. And also I want to again, shout out this general magic documentary, this fascinating company called General Magic, founded in 1989 or so by Mark Porott, Andy Hertzfeld, Bill Atkinson, all from the Macintosh team. They had the idea of the iPhone in the 80s and 90s. They had the touchscreen, they had everything. And they didn't win. So it's really an interesting story. They had the best team, the best ideas in the right place, tons of money, all kinds of collaborations, but it didn't come together. Meanwhile, everyone on that team goes on to found another company or to do something else as Silicon Valley is. So maybe in a way General Magic did succeed. And certainly we all have iPhones and Samsung's and all these things, Android's these days. One of the General Magic crew was one of the founders of Android as well. Well, how did they how did they how they had a closed model? They had an incredible deal with like 15 industry players who all hate each other. Panasonic and Sony were on the same team, Apple and AT&T. But their model focused on like AT&T closed mail. So they had a very safe mail model, but obviously an email came out. The web came out. All this flowing data. Anyone could make a web page. They had an interface more like it was before the Newton. Like the Newton was basically based on their designs. Like Apple kind of stole from their General Magic partnership to make the Newton. Sony eventually releases the device as the magic link. And it's a huge disaster. Really only the team and the family and friends have them because they get them for free. They sell almost no commercial devices. But they had everything and to hear this the visionary guy. When you when you when you watch the black when you watch the black brief film. You realize that actually the innovation wasn't the device because you had. So I remember I had an LG Prada like a year before the iPhone. And that was basically an iPhone like it was touch screen. There's no buttons. It's amazing. Everyone was in awe of this thing. It's beautiful. And but the real innovation which which made the iPhone successful and popular. Was not paying for minutes. It was paying for data with the mobile phone providers. And that's what made them be able to you know with the black brief. You can send an email. But that's what meant that you could have like you know your web browser running properly on on an iPhone. You could have this music as well. It was by selling data because I was like in no ceiling when it came to the cellular phone providers on on what they could charge. Which then made it possible. But yeah, I mean Apple. They sell everything everyone's things. They stole the mouse from Xerox and the. Yeah. Yeah. But it's. This this one's the worst because it's all former Apple people. And they were having meetings with Apple and they're explaining to them. They're showing them their prototypes and all this stuff. And then Apple on their own. And they kind of blame John Scully who was the non technical CEO of Apple the guy from Pepsi. And they say, oh, he needed a product, etc. They released the Newton, which I actually used back in the day. I had one of the typewriter or full clamshell newtons. I had a little keyboard at school and it was incredible. And we didn't get anything that good for years later. As good as the Newton or the early Palm pilots. Things like this that we had the tech. We had the ideas. But it didn't come together into the iPhone until the iPhone. And then shortly after that, the Samsung and the Android and all the other versions. But it also kind of reminded me of a curiosity cards where we released our product, which were digital collectables. We called them blockchain collectables back in the day on Ethereum. And they were a variation of the ICO token just modified to be a collectible. No one wanted them. We left them out there in the vending machines. You know, that's what else could you do? And eventually people wanted them. They wanted the collectables. They liked this idea of the collectables in the same way. General magic has this iPhone that they think everybody's going to want. And maybe their version wasn't as fast as what Apple releases 10 years later. So on and so forth. But they had all the different kind of conceits down that it would be a button screen. There would be these things. You'd use your finger. All these kind of things that you'd connect to the network. And while they didn't succeed either, General Magic, it really seems like everyone in the movie is a huge success. There's a guy that's like, oh, he found a nest. He found it linked in. He founded this. He made the iPod. Then he made the iPhone. The other guy makes the Android phone. Like these ideas that the visionary guy came to them with this big red book full of basically the iPhone in a big book. It worked. Like the ideas got out there, but they didn't get to dominate or control the market. I think that happens. That happened like in Bitcoin, happening in Oster. It's, you see it early on. Like people discuss all these amazing ideas and things you could do with a tool like Bitcoin or to let Noster or whatever. And yeah, the market just doesn't exist and there's not a few uses and the money's not there. And maybe the technology doesn't exist either. But yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong in just going back in time to when something started. Still now with Bitcoin, you could probably go back to some of those discussions from 2010, 11. And then find some great ideas for Bitcoin applications. I wish just to have them being built, you know. Because people were kind of speculating it was still just this blank canvas of possibilities of things you could build. But yeah, it takes a long time for the market actually to actually be ready for those things to exist. So I suppose that was job owes. Ultimate gift was his ability just for market timing. The market timing on his products were impeccable. He really did have a good time. It was an incredible device when it launched the iPhone. They show the creator of the visionary, you know, he's carrying his giant red book full of ideas in like a drone shot with the ocean behind him and the trees and the wind is blowing. And you know, you look at this guy who is totally right completely right. He diagrammed it well. He described it well. He convinced major players like Andy Hertzfeld to leave Apple and to join his company to build it. He brought in all this VC fund. He had this incredible alliance of all these different companies working together. And they still didn't get it. They got really close, but they didn't get it. But in a way though, the dream that they had the thing that he describes this everything device that lets you do all the stuff and makes everybody really smart. Well, I wish that would help, but makes everybody at least on time to their appointments. And they can video things maybe get killed. You know, they help make that they made that possible that distraction machine that portable horrible distraction machine. Just throwing your life. It's just destroying lives. Yeah, it's just destroying absolutely everything. No, never sits in the downsides. They're like, oh, this thing is getting you know, you're not humanity and make the world a better place. That's why it's it's even it's so it's sad to see Steve go and everything with it. And they wish you'd done better on the cancer. But in a way, it's kind of like you bastard. You left us with this. He doesn't get to see the results. I think Steve would be even more into like scream time and turning the phones off and having controls and like the characters at the end of ready player one where they're like, maybe we should go outside on Thursdays. Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. We're absolutely at that level. And especially the kids like you go see the kids today and you see their face in the phone. You see their face in the tablet. You don't see the kids anymore. But whatever, like a lot of that stuff, which came later, the downsides to technology. Often it's led by corrupt incentives by corporations or whatever to steal people so they can maximize profits at, you know, at the sacrifice of their users well being. It's not something you envision, you know, you build this technology, you think of all the good it can bring into the world. And then these corporations and these negative incentives take hold. But I think we're building systems which can move away from that. Yeah, from that relationship. It would have been amazing. In the first iPhone demo and maybe somebody could make this for me on the AI, the so or so or whatever. And they could say it's it's Steve Jobs and in demonstrating how to use candy crush is like look at this incredible device. You can match three things together. All you have to do is match three similar things. The blocks drop down and you can spend your entire life playing this game young people old people. We flash the screen and we vibrate, give you that little dopamine hit when you get a match. Imagine you in the future, matching three things in a various versions of this game. Thank you Steve. You can't envision that to stop you can use. It was not as far as you can see it. But we're out of time for today. Thanks for joining us in the chat. Leave your comments down below. We always read the comments. There's not that many but shout out to Roy keeps the comments coming. Shout out to DJ booth in the chat and starship. Again, it was so fun to meet starship at the convention up in Manchester where we've been Manchester. It was great in the cold and it's always good to go to Bitcoin conventions and meet people. But you're probably hibernating now in England and in the cold and in the southern storms here. We've had incredible storms in the US. So everybody stay safe and stay warm and give us a thumbs up and subscribe down below if you're first time here. And until next time bye bye. Bye bye. Ben's not gonna say bye bye. You're gonna wait too good to buy by. I did say bye bye bye bye. I know. I'm adding I'm adding more so that the thing won't cut it off this way. It'll cut off and mid sentence here.