The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest citossis, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Josh Egola from thestander.io. Well, howdy folks. Jimmy Song, Bitcoin expert. The Atalantast. Arthur Van Pelt, Bitcoin consultant. Oh, you need the microphone consultant. Oh, I got to say hello, Arthur. You're muted there. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Good evening to you guys. Very good. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Coinbase, safe. As James and Lot posted on Twitter this weekend, my Bitcoin is safe on the exchange that has a great track record of not being hacked. Except, according to a report released by Zach, XBT and Tanuki 42, they're losing $30 million dollars a month from individual accounts being compromised. Josh Egola is Coinbase safe if their user accounts keep getting emptied out? I mean, you're only as dumb as you use a, we ran Voltoro since from 2004 to end of 2014 till 2021. And we never had a hack. But people are stupid and they have password as password. I mean, you know, we force them to not have that. But and then we force them to have two factor. So I don't know how, I mean, it's, I don't know how these people are getting hacked to, honestly, if they have two factor and that, it's probably wrench attacks or something like that. But yeah, look, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely easier to be hacked on an exchange for sure. But there's no, there's always idiots. There's always idiots and Coinbase isn't perfect. No one is. Yeah. And yeah, get your coins off exchanges. I mean, often you have to say it. Well, it could be phishing attacks or holes in Coinbase. I know of people in the past that had a lot of coins on Coinbase that were lifted, but one would assume after they became a big company on Wall Street and all of that, they would have fixed all these problems, made it really user friendly. Jimmy, is Coinbase still not hacked, even if they're users or getting emptied out on the regular? Yeah, I mean, this is a thing. It's very, it's a very tempting honey pot. And I think there have been various leaks in different places, ledger releasing like all the email addresses and stuff. And I bet significant number of those that are in the US have accounts on Coinbase. So there are ways to socially engineer this stuff. And it's, some of this stuff is like really tricky. And remember, I saw a phishing email from BitTracks, right? Because they had shut down US operations. And I got an email saying, hey, you still have money on BitTracks. You need to do this stuff. And I was like, oh, do I? And then I clicked through it and it looked all legit. And basically they wanted you to hook in your hardware wallet and then allow them to access it or something like that. And they would basically drainage of all funds. But that was a really clever phishing attack. And this is where social engineering and things like that get into play. And I'm pretty good at this stuff, not that any of my money got hacked on that. But I could easily see a lot of people falling for stuff like that. There's also people on Twitter with Coinbase underscore as the username or something like that. And they directly mail people. There's a lot of social engineering hacks that are happening. People are just not technically sophisticated enough to detect what they are. And 30 million does sound like a lot though. That's probably at least a few hundred users a month, maybe even a thousand. That's a lot of people that are getting fished every time. So you would think that they'd have more robust controls in place, especially with respect to video or something like that. And I can't imagine that they have time for that given how many all coins are listing. So that's probably a matter of priority for them. Well, and at the very least they could put some limits on people with accounts. You could only withdraw a ten thousand a day or only a hundred thousand a day or any kind of a limit on the accounts. Oh, they definitely have those. And you have to get approved for the higher limits. The thing is sometimes you just don't know. Like if your email gets hacked, right? And you don't have two factor, then that's pretty much your, you can get into any of these accounts pretty easily. And I imagine this is one of the first things that hackers look for when they compromise your Gmail account. Even if you have two factor, if you back it up with Google to F a, you can go and get it. And then now you can go get all your Coinbase stuff, even with two F a, which is kind of crazy. So, but that's that's how it is. It's also like you said, it's all about the mindset of the user. If you're answering the emails in the middle of the night and you're sleepy and you don't know what's going on, you've never done this before, they could empty out your whole account like you're saying. People really have to be on the ball when they're looking at this and the emails can look very similar. Arthur Vance, what do you think about Coinbase? They all say it's safe and secure, but I don't know anymore. Yeah, funny thing is I was a customer of Coinbase, but it's long, long, long time ago. And there was this delete Coinbase action at some point, I don't know, five, six, seven years ago. And I joined it at that moment. So I canceled my Coinbase account and I had it already next to another account, which I'm still with another exchange called Bidstamp since 2013. Yeah, that's when I opened my account on Bidstamp and bought my first Bitcoin. The funny thing is in December last year, I had my own experience that is closely related to this. And I will tell you a funny story. It's probably not so funny because it's indeed adding to the mantra of what your keys not your coins. On the other hand, it's also related to hacking because what happened, I wanted to withdraw some Bitcoin. I had to white list Bitcoin address for that. And somehow that triggered on December the 4th and a security protocol, I think, at Bidstamp and what they did, they immediately blocked my account from everything. I couldn't do anything anymore, not buying, not selling, not withdrawing, not anything. And if that lasts maybe one or two days, it doesn't really matter and it's not bothering you that much. This last three and a half weeks before my account was unlocked again. In the meantime, I had to do a video call with the security department and they asked me all the KIC questions that they had to ask, which is, yeah, okay, we have to deal with KIC these days. And they told me that, no, no, not at that moment, it was slightly later. But what happened was that one of the questions that came up in a second round of questions, I think a week later or something, was that because I'm using VPN, they were wondering why the lawhorns on my account came from all kinds of countries in the short while. So they were like, this is not okay. And then I can understand that security and my security and their security is indeed something to consider. What bothered me a lot actually was that it took three and a half weeks to unlock my account because they were quite busy. They had a lot of influx of new users. That meant that I was just one of 10,000 of new users that had to go through KIC procedures. And since I have not all locally, but still a part of my saving is on BITS stamp and I need it almost weekly basis to either buy some of the lost Arthur's audio there. And it's been cut off. Oh, sorry. I'm losing my audio. Everything is fine on this side to be honest. I could still hear Arthur. So keep going then. I think we're okay. I don't know what's going on. Yeah, but these attacks are amazing, Arthur. I saw one that happened to me, which was a fishing, but through email. And I think this goes to Jimmy's point as well as that these social engineering attacks is definitely how it's done. And it's usually email. Email is the weakest point in anybody's position anywhere because email allows for password resets and everything. And if an attacker can get into your email, generally what they quickly do is they quickly put a folder in and then leave. And then they don't touch your account for ages. And you don't really know that your forward is on because it's deep in the settings. But every email that you get gets forwarded to them. And then of it, and they'll try pretty quickly to start to reset passwords all around the place and build up a if you're a high profile, they'll start to build up your celebrity or something. They'll start to build up the whole core of infrastructure around them so they can start to prove to other infrastructure that they are you. That's quite unreal. And email is the biggest email on the phone. The phone is because Sim swaps, but also physically snatching phones. Very, very tricky. How do you how do you how do you check that you are at your email is forward? How do you see? You just go into your settings. You check your forward settings and you turn you make sure that not turned on. But yeah, the other thing emails is super easy to spoof. I can send any say you've got Arthur von von Pelt dot com. I can send an email that says Josh at Arthur von Pelt dot com. And it'll look like that when it arrives to you. And it's just shocking. It's so bad. I don't know why the base email protocol hasn't been upgraded to sort of solve this spoofing shit. It's. So a decay I am and stuff like that, which most services have like checks for you that the domain is legit and everything. You have to sign it and things like that. They're protocols for that. Yeah. There are, but like why why doesn't Gmail, for instance, because you can see it in the metadata that it is a spoof to count. Gmail just lets it through just lets it through to to the inbox. It's I mean, if it's a domain, that's like very similar. That's like Coinbase dash something, something then like there's nothing you could do about it because it looks like Coinbase, but it isn't. That's usually how the scammers do it. It's not actually not from Coinbase.com. Yeah. Also, I've got to make sure you keep hold of your cell phone like Josh was saying there was a guy that did Uber rides and he would show up early and say to people, Oh, you know, I know your MI driver. Let me see your phone. And then he they would give him the phone. Click, click, click send you a whole Coinbase account to him. Here you go. Here's back your phone. I'm not your driver and then just take off and you don't even have to be an Uber driver. It's just hanging out, getting the phone. Let's move on. Exit question is Coinbase safe? Should people keep their money on Coinbase? Yes or no? Josh Shagalla. No. Jimmy Song. I mean, I guess if you have all coins, but but if you have Bitcoin, no, absolutely not. Arthur Van Pelt. Yeah, I agree with you. Oh, you guys are too mean to Coinbase, but maybe they should put it in the vault or like Jimmy's saying get a hardware wallet, a treasure or a ledger or maybe a crypto steal, something like that. There's lots of options out there. Moving on to issue two, it coins big move. Has wave three begun? According to the Fibonacci spirals and the snapshots from India time, we might have ridden through Bitcoin wave two consolidation or run solidation and are in the wave three setup where we could see a hundred and seven or a hundred and nine thousand dollars. A coin earlier, we had Bitcoin reversing losses as it topped a hundred one thousand dollars after US delays the tariffs on Mexico and Canada. It was quite an exciting day there as Bitcoin crashed a full day before the stock market, then the stock market crashed, then the tariffs were temporarily reversed. Jimmy Song, what do you think about the price, the price, the price, the only thing any of these articles I Google care about for Bitcoin is the price good. I mean, it's hard to tell based on the inflationary rate of the US dollar. It's hard to say, but I will comment that during this most recent draw from 100K to below 100K, we saw an all coin blood bath, like just an absolute destruction. And there's a tweet out there of somebody keeping track of when Bitcoin crosses a hundred thousand. And it said first time Ethereum was like at 4,000 second time it was at like 3,500 third time it was like 3,200 and then it was at like 3,000 and this most recent time it was 2,700. So I think there's a Bitcoin might be dropping and coming up and down and whatever, but there's definitely a separation against all switches I think will hopefully help the demand for Bitcoin because yeah, the all coins aren't doing so good and I'm very happy about that. There's nothing to back it up, but people on Twitter are saying that they think that the institutions are not rotating their gains into alt coins as other groups may have done with their Bitcoin gains. They might just be holding them in Bitcoin, but we don't know that. Arthur Van Pelt, what do you think about the price, the price of Bitcoin? Yeah, in general, I'm not a trader, so I do not follow it. I do follow the price of course, sort of a daily basis, but not for trading just out of interest and seeing it. It is finally doing the the God candle or the Omega candle or whatever candles there are. What I do notice and it is what Jimmy just I think referenced to what we see is that indeed the time of alt coins, we saw several waves in that. Let's say roughly around 2013, 2014, we saw the wave of the ICOs and then that type of alt coin, then a bit later there were a few other waves. The most recent wave is the meme coins of course and if you take one example how meme coins are the same type of shit coin as all the other shit coin waves that we've seen. The Trump meme coin, he came up with I think around the presidency I think a few days before in January, it rise to 72 dollars and I think it's now, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 dollars. So it dropped already dramatically and that is for me a prime example of how shit coins are really not popular anymore locally and that is beneficial for Bitcoin and that is what you can see also happening in the Bitcoin dominance is back to wave off 61, 62 percent currently and I can see that rise further actually to probably 70 to 75 percent in the upcoming year. Although I have to of course a little bit, this is not financial advice of course but I have to be careful a little bit there is still because it's not so easy to create alt coins, meme coins and all the type of stuff and they are being created by the tens of thousands every day I even read a number that is sometimes one million per day, not sure if that number is correct but it's a lot so that the loot of course the market cap dominance of Bitcoin for the bit or the other hand we see a flow from alt coins to Bitcoin and I think that's good. That's how it should be. Josh Egala, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? I don't know. Some say it's wave 5, not 3 but you know how many waves you can see so many waves in these charts. I don't know it's a fractal you know but fundamentally round numbers like 100 are going to be ones that Bitcoin dances around for a while because people are very round number based robots not so much but generally they've got their goal. I'm going to sell at 100 or 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000 so it's that round number. Once it gets past that people get over the round number of that then 10x here we come and that's the then that'll dance around that for a while. Let that one sink in but yeah it's a price I don't know. It's going to consolidate for a while and let's see but fundamentally like I'm a fundamentalist guy and fundamentally Bitcoin hasn't changed. In fact it's only gotten stronger with the talk of you know governments starting to think about reserves and stuff so it's once that happens especially if the US kick off first and the regulatory space you know the fact that Trump released his own coin before the inauguration is just so ridiculously bullish in terms of even though it was a shit coin it's just basically it's bullish for the whole system because you know the SEC can't can't go after everyone so there's not as much fear. I mean you know the SEC obviously hasn't gone after Bitcoin before but they have gone up you know it's I just think it's bullish so yeah 10x 1 mil here we come that's the number to look out for. And now onto the exit question where you have to predict against the source of all truth and knowledge in this universe the Bitcoin predictor ball. Josh Shagalla will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. Yeah I'm going to go higher. Jimmy Song higher or lower. Higher. Arthur Van Pelt higher or lower. Higher. Everyone's bullish I'm just going to agree with everyone this week and now what will the balls say here we go shaking it can cause bubbles we might need a flashlight to read it sometimes let's see it says without a doubt without a doubt the price of Bitcoin will be higher this time next week so even the ball agrees. Moving on to issue three. Trump media files for truth five Bitcoin plus ETFs truth media is giving investors the opportunity to capitalize on magas campaign promises which include US energy independence manufacturing growth and Bitcoin adoption. According to the trademarks that they filed related to ETFs and SMAs managed accounts they're launching truth five made in America ETF truth five made in America SMA energy independence ETF and Bitcoin plus ETF. Arthur Van Pelt what do you think of the president's companies new offerings in Bitcoin and other ETFs. Yeah yeah but when it comes to Bitcoin I'm of course happy the other fields of interest it is not in my comfort zone so much or I will leave that to others to say something about it but it comes to Bitcoin I have a rather clear view on what Bitcoin is doing currently and the ETFs it has fit in that in that few Bitcoin started in 2009 as a sort of collectible became a highly wanted collectible then in October 2009 people started trading it it it could be exchanged into fiat currencies for me that was the start of the store of value phase for Bitcoin but the store of value phase is still going on we still need to go to how I help finish 10 million and other people even predict that higher amounts I think the sailor is already closer to 50 million currently in his predictions so that means that we still need to build up value and Bitcoin still has to absorb a lot of value now yeah the Bitcoin reserves the ETFs the treasuries and the type of thing fit in that in nicely in that in that phase because people are investing and mostly saving and not so much menstruating and more saving in in Bitcoin and pension funds and those type of things you will see that happen that is of course happening then before the means of change phase in my view so you will see an adoption phase first in the store of value field and only later we see a more adoption in the means of exchange so the merchants start accepting more Bitcoin currently it's not so much let's be honest I think it's around between 10 and 50 thousand real merchants that accept Bitcoin on a global scale of course there are numbers like 650 million people have exposure let's call it like that to the lightning network but hardly I think only a few million of them are really using it and then only maybe a few times a month so that still has to has to lift off seriously but that's not the time yet it's the the software should be better the protocol is working but how it works for people on the phone is not always very friendly and things like that but they are going back to the ETF again to summarize what I said it fits in the current phase of the store of value building of Bitcoin Josh Shagall it's the same old story somebody new comes to Bitcoin and now they're going to fix it would you invest in the president ETFs? I mean people are going to make things and products and especially tradfire make products around products around products and around products so it's and services so they're going to keep doing what they're doing you know it it means trust it means these sorts of things I think that maybe there's opportunity to do it I don't know if you already a stock investor and you want to put some gains into something else you can move stock into ETFs a lot quicker so sometimes it works sometimes it's good for you I definitely won't be I'm not really a stock investor myself I invest in a little bit of stocks here and there but I don't really get the space I don't know not a big ETF guy. While considering there are many fine ETFs offered by BlackRock and others Jimmy Song why would people choose the presidents new ETFs? Yeah I mean this this a clear product aimed at like the manga base and there's a lot of people that would rather put their money in a Trump ETF rather than BlackRock or Vanguard I mean they sort of see them as opponents already so I think it's a product that makes sense right there's a market for it there's plenty of mom and pop kind of manga people that would love to invest but they don't want to give their money to BlackRock or Vanguard and like have them and force ESG mandates and DEI mandates and things like that so hey the good news is that he's putting Bitcoin as part of it and I think you you get maybe some of these people that are strong Trump supporters coming into the space I ideally they would learn about self-custody and all that but yeah it's a big market and I mean he obviously did pretty well with truth social you know in Went Public and a lot of people bought that I don't think it's worth nearly as much as it is like intrinsically it's just that he has a lot of fans so this is sort of building on that and I can totally see why he's doing it is strange to think of investing as a thing that is now red or blue or you would choose your political view more than you would choose profits and earnings other things like this but in a way it's always been that way if you think back to something like Coca-Cola you're investing in sugar water you're supporting sugar water and advertising so you're making a lot of value choices if you invest in Enron if you invest in Warren Buffett or any of those things although once again I do I do wish it was more that the president had an authentic Bitcoin awakening and that he just thought Bitcoin was great and he was sending around with his friends and all those things and he would say things like not your keys not your coins and mean it and that he wasn't just kind of bribed or influenced into supporting Bitcoin for the short term it just is a disconnect there like I feel unfortunately I don't not a big fan of Bukheli but I think Bukheli is a little bit more into the actual ethos of Bitcoin perhaps than Trump but he still has time maybe he'll learn more maybe this will lead him to learn more about Bitcoin but it's probably other people managing the coins and once again they might politically like to choose someone other than BlackRock but if these coins get run off if somebody hacks them or makes a mistake it could be very bad very bad for the investors but we'll see how that goes moving on check out worldcryptonenetwork.com we've got all the shows you want to see you can even click on the side yard and see on the side sidebar and see what's going on we've got shows with Josh and Ben tone Vays I think we've got Jimmy Song in there too if you click on hosts and guests you can see all the different hosts of people that have been on the show here's some previous appearances by Jimmy Song on the world crypto network check it out at worldcryptonenetwork.com issue four mark Cuban says if you want to get rich throw a hail Mary and invest 10% of your savings in Bitcoin or Ethereum but you must pretend like you already lost it advice that Bitcoiners have been given for almost a decade of course we all remember that mark Cuban famously said he'd take bananas over bitcoins because he could eat the bananas he says that crypto is so complicated but that was just in December of 2024 Arthur Van Pelt what do you think about mark Cuban's views on Bitcoin and bananas yeah what shall I say crazy guy I'm not sharing the same views with him so to say of course because I mean Bitcoin since 2012 I mean that's what my interest started of course I'm not often I wouldn't dare to call myself an expert but I pretend to know a few things about Bitcoin I knew already in 2012 2013 I felt already coming that Bitcoin is on the path to become ultimately in reserve currency for the world and I still see that more and more I get confirmation that it's happening I mean if we are already now what are we 60 years in and there are talks about the strategic Bitcoin reserve in America I mean wow crazy what so what would have thought that in 2009 so yeah what could Mr. Cuban is saying no sorry it's not my piece of cake sorry I just think it's a stunning transformation and I'm not sure why people still listen to this guy or ask him in for invites and interviews all these things especially now with the Dallas Maverick situation where it looks like they might have traded Luca in attempt to tank the team to maybe move it to Vegas Jimmy Song what do you think about mark Cuban and the potential Dallas Maverick situation I think you might be a Texan that might affect you yeah I think we talked about Cuban the last time I was on the show he's there's some really strange things going on with this guy he he sold a significant percentage of his Dallas Maverick's ownership to a group the rumors flying about that he had to liquidate a lot of his positions I think he got significantly burned on all the shit coin stuff that he was doing so my guess is that he's financially in trouble I think the trade of Luca was actually a way he probably got paid under the table from the NBA or the Lakers because he's in some financial trouble and he's he's trying to recoup or whatever but you know I mean this advice sort of goes with that general financial panic that he seems to be in which is okay I need to have some hail marries here to get back to even because I don't think his investments the last five six years has done very well and I mean this this is a time when everybody has done very well just because of the ramp and money printing I don't know what the hell he did but my my gut feeling is that something is off on his finances and he's kind of desperate to make it back or something and this just sort of reflects his mentality more than on Bitcoin too many bad products on shark tank something like that but I'm just surprised at how archaic his advice is like this is the kind of advice we were getting people five years 10 years ago on Bitcoin we're like just give it a try put a little bit in you know we don't know how it's going to turn out it's a massive asset there's black rock ETFs there's presidential ETFs all this is going on and still he's out there with this like I don't know I don't know about Bitcoin you might lose all your money it's just it's it's an archaic view I don't know where he's coming from and I'm sure maybe he'll be a maximalist in a few months he'll turn it around maybe he'll be back to a shit corner back to a maximalist there's a lot of places he can still go Josh should go what do you think about Mark Cuban who famously preferred bananas to Bitcoin and we're not even talking about that crazy expensive banana sculpture that Justin Sun from Tron bought for like 45 million dollars we can duct tape a banana to a long best investment ever yeah the the thing about my it's more about the mainstream media I find annoying when they'll bring out these so-called experts and and they'll treat them as experts if they're so instantly Mr. wonderful is like this crypto expert they don't bother talking to anyone else that's been in the game for ages they'll just talk to him and he'll just parrot the same shit we've been saying for ages same goes for sailor in a bit but sailor's been around while longer now and he's you know obviously very heavy balls deep so so you know there's that but but yeah we I've never really liked the guys investment thesis even when I watch Shark Tank I think I oh man so I think I think he's a bit of a luck guy I mean take yeah I think he was lucky with Yahoo and I don't know I mean I don't want to write stuff off those luck too much because there is right time right place sort of thing as well but yeah some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth kind of like Peter Schifty though now Peter Schifty's a little bit more nefarious I think because I don't understand how he can be so dumb so I think he's been back in the day when his words could actually move the market still and some of us here have been long enough in the game to remember that I think he was taking advantage at least his children were so these celebrity types I think can try to manipulate the market but it's too big now they can't even manipulate it now so I don't know what what his problem is I think he's just stupid I think in a lot of ways although his new stuff is pretty good the Shark Tank show obviously very successful his work with prescription drugs having something like affordable prescriptions dot com something like that he's doing very well but generally I agree Josh I think he's kind of like a poker player who did really well he had broadcast dot com he was illegally broadcasting college basketball games he sold that to Yahoo got a bunch of Yahoo stock and he exited before the dot com crash if he exits a week or two later we're not talking about this guy he doesn't own the Dallas Mavericks this is never a story so it's incredibly good timing he got incredibly lucky and I don't see that when it comes to Bitcoin I don't see him having the luck having the timing I see him as being way far behind but let's keep moving to the next story issue five Jesse Powell kicked out when a pro trump crypto king came knocking San Francisco elites locked the door a Bitcoin pioneer's apartment purchase was rejected by the buildings residents after he was in escrow the sellers including a powerful democrat say they don't care about politics Jimmy Song what do you think about a friend of the show a guy knew from college founder of the exchange cracking and the troubles he's having a buying luxury housing in San Francisco sorry Jesse that this is this kind of what happens if you stay in San Francisco and you know unfortunately they really don't like people that are remotely you know differing in any point of view it's funny because they the democrats used to be the party that allowed all kinds of dissent now now you have to be in line with absolutely everything or you're a heretic and they don't like you by apartments I mean honestly apartments are terrible investment anyway I would encourage Jesse to go buy some land in Montana somewhere maybe Wyoming something like that and so like go go live a good life you know you can you can get um you know uh starlink you can you can uh you know probably get some sort of you know have a well there and you can as long as you can figure out a way to generate your own electricity you're you're good to go I don't know maybe an oil well or something then then you're good I say go do that rather than trying to go into this hoi toi toi toi club it is quite a story too as pal was attempting to return to San Francisco uh after leaving the city and wanted to you know enrich it and add to the city and so forth uh with his business and the other things he does uh Arthur van Pal what do you think about uh Jesse pal and his troubles with the apartment building yeah to be honest it dynamics that are happening in america i'm from the Netherlands so i don't follow that stuff too closely so sort of neutral i don't know the exact dynamics going on in that city uh i don't know the the sensitivities around Jesse of crack and in that city or otherwise so i don't think i have anything substantial to contribute here uh Thomas oh there's a different situation in apps to dam a friend of mine told me a story once that uh somebody had gotten displaced uh their apartment was sold to a far richer person and uh because of the displacement they had to pay that person's rent for a year and a half to help them with the situation so it is different in different countries and over here it sounds like he's trying to get into a very elite apartment building uh Josh you go you think of Jesse pal and his troubles with the fancy apartment building in San Francisco yeah i think it goes a lot deeper and i worry sometimes for um people that are very vocal about their politics online because the space has just become so retarded and that's a legal phrase again since Trump so it's all right um it uh you know if you're very vocal and then you suddenly need to go to hospital and the this big fat blue head nurse comes up with a rainbow flag and googles your name she might just not care about the air bubble in the uh in the drip as much uh and so i i you know that is a worry if you're very vocal i mean what Jesse's gone through it doesn't seem that that bad uh but i i i'm with Jimmy on this one uh don't don't move to San Francisco it's a lost cause that place has absolutely been destroyed unfortunately by uh by this this complete nonsense this look at the homeless last time i was there the homelessness was so shocking it was really shocking it was third world stuff um uh but you know it's not just saying for an like New York was like he looked up at the power lines it was like spider man threw up uh it's just so so decay is it is just in total decay and so i i would like to see America come back uh a bit stronger and be be nicer place to live but with this sort of attitude of kicking people out for their political views i don't know i'd say you know it's just part of life and uh don't do it don't do it Jesse don't buy into that crap all you should buy it just the whole the block next to it well while his views are a little radical i don't think that Jesse has to worry about ambulance service or anything like that in the future i'm sure everyone will take care of him it'll be fine and uh shout out to Jesse i hope this goes well uh the last i heard about his lodging he bought some kind of crazy mansion in Los Angeles where everything was controlled by tablets so that sounds pretty cool too uh i hope this works out for the best and uh good luck to San Francisco as well let's move on to our final issue micro strategy no more as many had made fun of micro strategy for their small strategy they've changed their name to strategy bitcoin or strategy bitcoin symbol or just strategy and they are going to accelerate their bitcoin purchases in the fourth quarter additionally other companies are copying the so-called micro strategy aka pirate at 40 Ponzi scheme strategy to buy a lot of bitcoin and transform their companies from companies that used to do something into companies that hold bitcoin i'm sure this will all work out well for them as they continue borrowing to buy this bitcoin Josh Shagalla what do you think about micro strategies new name and the legion of copycats i think it's a missed opportunity it could be strategy strategy strategy strategy yeah you know micro strategy i have really nothing to say about it i mean it's it's a strange it's a strange world where people companies can just hold an asset and uh and their stock moves up because of it but uh but it makes makes sense i mean uh it's it's been a good been a good strategy for them so yeah good on you it could only be strategy if it was BEE like the insect and they could have all the like the bee branding and the honey and all of that uh but i agree Josh it's way too much to have a company whose strategy is we hold this asset you invest in us yeah it was not the original ETF before the ETFs like it was a way to invest in but i just hold the asset myself and cut out the middleman i mean it's just like these people who watch people playing video games instead of playing the video game uh Jimmy song why should we buy strategy B instead of B well i mean uh a sensible reason is that you're getting sort of uh you're doing a leverage bet on bitcoin basically without all of the complications of options or futures and things like that so that that's the main reason and in fact you can uh there there are multiple ETFs just based on the micro strategy stock so there's like two x micro strategy or two x short micro strategy and and all kinds of stuff um the options are some of the most uh volatile and popular uh you know call options put options which are leverage bets on uh micro strategy um in fact i i i've heard it speculated that a lot of the all coin uh sort of like gambling has moved over to the traditional markets with micro strategy because you you have levered bets on bitcoin now now that you have micro strategy options you have micro strategy ETFs uh you know double long and things like that so i um and you know micro sealer is very clear about this he you know all all of that is very good for his stock because there's a lot of demand for it it's one of the top traded stocks in the world right now there are people in career that are uh you know buying and selling uh micro strategy stock just because they like the volatility and they they they like the action um and that's that's something that the market doesn't have much of in a fiat world because when you add fiat to anything it stabilizes it significantly and you don't have sort of like the violent ups and downs that make for good trading apparently uh as far as their name change i know that uh uh mic you know part of their business their actual business micro strategy uh from early on is domain names and they they've held a lot of very good domain names um one one of the ones that uh you know my micro sealer uses is uh hope dot com you know he he says bitcoin is hope they've been sitting on strategy dot com for some time so it makes sense that they are moving to this because that's uh that's a um that's a domain name that they've had um they also famously sold voice dot com to dan larimer uh before micro sealer got into bitcoin for something like 30 million dollars and he he used that actually as part of his first purchase as micro strategy into bitcoin so we we have dan larimer to thank uh for for part of that now i mean as far as like whether people should buy it or not if you want a levered bet i don't think it's a very very bad uh way to do it and this is this is what it's serving to the market uh for a long time it was all coins that served that but we're we're seeing this divergence away from all coins because you can just do straight levered bets and there's a lot less certainty where uh you know you you don't have stuff like ethereum that keeps coming it at a lower price every time bitcoin hits 100 000 you you have actual levered bets uh and michael uh i mean micro strategy or now strategy tends to trade at some you know decent multiple of bitcoin as far as the business itself i i mean it's it's as michael sailor said it's it's an infinite money glitch because every loan is money created out of nothing and he can call he he can make the market is desperate for loans that have exposure to bitcoin so he's making these bond offerings and preferred shares and every instrument that he can think up to do it and this is the this is honestly like just good money management and good good way of fulfilling his fiduciary duty to his company uh to share shareholders and um you know i i tweeted this out yesterday uh but if you look at coinbase from their IPO in April of 2022 to now they're actually down from the first day of trading uh they're they're they're down maybe like 20 like uh like uh some some percentage point uh mich uh micro strategy from that day to now is up something like 700 percent and this is the big difference between shakuan casino and holding bitcoin and uh everyone everyone should look at that and say i should be holding bitcoin like michael sailor and not getting into every all coin under the sun like uh like coinbase is doing because that's just stupid that is impressive as well jimmy they could do their uh leverage bets and all that on their normal exchanges they wouldn't have to use a weird bitcoin all coin exchange they could use uh i don't know whatever they use that robinhood the normal things charles swab whatever um but it is interesting arthur van pelt what do you think about micro strategy and the idea that people could invest in a company instead of investing in bitcoin oh i'm i'm following that with with interest uh i don't do it myself i'm uh most investor in microstrategy or now strategy i i am bitcoin only um on the other hand the the concept is of course a super duper interesting i see it as one of those paths to to bitcoin becoming a massive good um store of store of value so in that sense i have nothing against this i also have nothing to add to a jimmy just uh set about all the things that are possible uh that are made possible in the market for um certain types of investors that do not like uh self-custody on on bitcoin and that type of thing they are more of the path of investing in in stocks etc so that there's a gap in the market that it's being filled by uh by microstrategy now the only thing and that is uh something that is nice to mention here i think i came across uh i have no idea anymore who that was but somebody made a remark on twitter now ex um strategy made probably a little bit a little mistake marketing-wise because they put the bitcoin b on top of strategy at the end and that is confusing because now it is like you already uh set the towers in in the beginning is it strategy is it strategy b or what is it now again they should have made that according this guy probably interested in marketing or design or whatever uh more like a like a star of or a sun uh instead of the bitcoin b so that it would be uh wider interpretable and um more uh like one of the domains that bitcoin is operating on his hope.com it was mentioned before then if you put more like something like a sun it is yeah more closely related to for example hope hope.com and of course it then needs a little bit more explanation that somebody who's doing an elevator pitch for for bitcoin and strategy of course will manage in 30 seconds to connect the dots between that and that made sense to me actually when this person was criticizing the name change not not the name change by itself because strategy is of course uh according to me at least it's a good change it's now a shorter name it's a good name it's not a name that is uh done by another company but the bitcoin b is maybe a little mistake but probably silly will not see it like that. It does seem unnecessary and as Jimmy was saying if they own strategy.com go with that that's an asset that's an incredible thing to own a uh major word like that and i would just output that in the ads just put the dot com on there and everything uh but we're running out of time so we're going to go to predictions or story of the week Josh Shigalla are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead um yeah i don't really have a prediction of story of the week just uh working like crazy um and uh yeah building trying to build value. All right and they can check that out at the standard.io Jimmy song what are you working on prediction or a story of the week go ahead. I think the story of the week at by far is what doge is doing with uh USAID and the department of education and all of that the amount of grift that is in the federal government is just absolutely mind boggling uh we're finding out that George Soros got like 48 million dollars to uh you know do like uh get all of these like uh district attorneys and major cities that wouldn't prosecute any crime we're finding out that Chelsea wed Chelsea Clinton's wedding was paid for entirely by USAID funds we're finding out that uh like 90% of the media outlets in Ukraine were funded by USAID it's just absolute in batch it insanity how much uh this organization has been used to fund just about everything um they did lay off something like 97% of their staff they have something like 10,000 employees they kept 297 uh which which I think is great but this just goes to show for me just how excessive fiat money printing can be and you get all of these people that are unaccountable to anybody and they just keep spending money and because we have the money printer uh they they don't get checked until you have a crisis kind of like what we had in the last five years so um that that's uh showing for me just the absolute uh insanity and this is just one one department right USAID I think is like 0.7% of the budget uh but you know it was which which is 40 billion dollars though or something ridiculous like that but they they fund so much stuff all over the world all these newspapers is something like 7,000 media organizations all over the world that are all parroting exactly what the US government wants them to do uh I don't know if you remember like uh there there was like this montage of newscasters all saying the same thing that that used to be kind of funny right it's like oh they're they're all saying you know you have to we have to be vigilant against fake news or whatever turns out they were all getting paid by the same people to say the same thing and that's how incompetent they are that they make them say like the exact same thing um so the the level of corruption in in government is absolutely astounding this is 0.7% of the budget they're gonna go into the department of education they're gonna go into department of energy they're going into the defense department state department all of the department of justice FBI CIA CIA you know I mean I I am paying attention to this stuff all all day long because it is just outrageous how much money is being wasted on a daily basis or doge is currently saving the taxpayers a billion dollars a day already they haven't even really dug into it yet which is you know like over over a year that's like 370 billion or something like that hey uh their target I think is something like uh you know three or four billion a day at which point you're you're into the trillions of dollars and you can actually close the budget deficit you know Medicare you know Medicaid you know social security you get into fraud and all of those if they can root it out man it's gonna be a really really interesting year but yeah that's by far for me that story of the week yeah true true I love that it's been so exciting uh we'll see what happens if they go after the department of defense that would be pretty interesting uh for the rest of it America's gonna lose a lot of soft power which will be taken up by China and we might just find ourselves with a hollowed out government and no services at all so I have to see how that goes Arthur van Peltier Nixon or a story of the week go ahead oh well they're just uh maybe a shameless uh marketing of of something that I'm doing currently I mean my my normal job is I work for for lawyer firms all over the world almost in in America UK Norway but also currently mostly in in the Netherlands a client is in in Amsterdam he has cases in in America and then locally here in in the Netherlands but as a hobby and I've been on your show before about my hobby that was debunking and mapping out the fraud of one of the cosplayers in the Bitcoin arena called Craig Wright he has been completely yeah wiped from the face of earth in in the UK by a ruling of of justice Mellor who said you are not Satoshi Daka-Boto and uh in the after bath of the ruling uh Craig Wright fled from the UK he's now somewhere hiding literally hiding in a closet we saw on a video sometime uh somewhere in Asia they think in in in Thailand but anyway uh we wrote uh I did a podcast about that for several years with uh by Fred Mark Hunter in in England and we are about that will not be tomorrow but let's say not maybe not this quarter anymore but next quarter we are going to release our first book about the Craig Wright story um we're mapping out his whole history we're diving into all the lawsuits that he has been involved in and every year we're going to publish a book about it so it's just my shameless plug for our books coming up uh yeah that's my story that sounds great I'm aware where can people check it out where can they sign up for the book now we're not that far yet uh we uh Mark just put a uh a poll on on Twitter what is uh what you like first uh to see uh the hardcover an ebook or maybe also an audio recording of of the book already um and we're going to listen to to that poll first um but like I said I think within a few months we will hear more uh of us about this the three books are already written the drafts are there the proofreading uh has started so yeah we are on our uh on a path to uh really release that uh that stuff great yeah that sounds great keep us updated and hopefully you can come back on the show when it's time to launch and uh we'll let everybody know about that yeah yeah yeah great would be all right but just want to thank everybody for coming thank everybody for hanging out with us at home I'll be sure to give us a thumbs up down below and say hello in the comments around the chat and uh until