The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last 10 years, includes the everybody good to see you. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. S&P gives up gain. 500 points down, Dow falls as White House says tariffs are starting Saturday. A 25% tariff is said to be placed on America's number one and number two trading partners, Canada and Mexico, respectively, tariffs of course, raise the price on goods by forcing businesses to pay more when they import goods from other countries. The businesses then raise the prices on consumers. Usually the countries raise the tariffs back, meaning that Mexico and Canada would slap a 25% or more tariff on American goods, causing what they used to call in the 1900s. A trade war. Adam McBride, oh yeah, one more thing on that. So a trade war and the price of Bitcoin is up. The price of Bitcoin is $101,770. That's 3.3% down recently. So we are not up with a high of 106, a low of 101, and $1 for 983 Satoshi's just on the other side of that $1,000 Satoshi barrier, which one seemed so impossible. Adam McBride, what do you think about the Dow being down 500 points? The market freaked out that tariffs could start on the best trading partners America has on Saturday, which is usually a week end. Who gives a crap? Who cares, man? Who cares? This Trump doing Trump things. We'll see how it shakes out. I'm bullish like Trump just doing away with income tax. Like can we make that happen? That's the most interesting thing to me. Is the Trumps floated this out there that, you know, let's just raise tariffs. Let's go back to 1912 before the income tax. And let's raise taxes for our government that way, rather than on the backs of the people. So I'm excited for it, man. I don't even know why he's doing this. You know, I understand the Columbia thing the other day, you know, making sure that flights out of aliens or illegal elements immigrants who came into the US can be returned to their home country. Understood that one. That got resolved quickly. We'll see if this gets resolved quickly. I don't know. We'll see. You know, Trump does Trump plays games which, you know, to an outsider look crazy. And but we know that often they're successful. So I'm willing to give them a pass for a few days. I think there's a 0.0% chance of getting rid of the income tax. But I don't know what to talk about. But we can keep hope alive, bro. We can keep hope alive. Same thing they said he was going to get rid of taxes on tips. That hasn't happened yet. There's a lot of great taxes. I'm sure people in the audience would like to get rid of Victoria Jones. What do you think just for a second about the Dow, the stock market and the impending tariffs and trade war? Yeah, well, I mean, I've said a few times on the show the entire financial system is on pretty shaky ground. You know, it's almost a case of, you know, which is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And every time, you know, now it's getting to the stage every time there's some kind of uncertain news. The Dow kind of gets these sorts of drops. So it's dropping, but then it's starting to kind of climb and recover and then something will happen to make it drop again. And it's, you know, we're at a time where almost anything could happen. And you know, and now, you know, it's like a 500 pound drop isn't really anything because it happens so often. So, you know, it's like wake me up when it's a 10,000 point drop. You know, 500 pounds, 500 points is nothing. You know, it's not what the youth of need, that's for sure, right? Yeah. In 1987, that was big news, you know, these days forget it. I mean, that's peanuts. Especially with the AI sell off recently as Nvidia lost 17 points. The whole market went down and entire sector collapsed because of Chinese software, which may or may not live up to the hype. It seems good so far. But Nvidia still needs to sell machines. People still need to run this software, even if it runs faster and better. Let's move on to the exit question. Crypto industry gets quick return on Trump investment after pouring millions into the campaign. As expected, the mainstream media has posted about not only the Ross Ulberg pardon, but the quick return on the working group. And allegedly, the ban on CBDCs, as well as perhaps the price of Bitcoin. Victoria Jones is the Trump presidency. Everything crypto asked for. Did they get their money's worth at least so far? Well, they seem to do. They seem to have done, don't they? I mean, you know, he's been very friendly to the crypto industry. And I think it's, you know, a realization of that classic phrase that money talks. And, you know, now that all the crypto people have all the money, it looks like, you know, it's swayed the heads of the president. And that's the way it's always worked. You know, the way in which our money works at the moment relies on the fact that it's government. It's money by decree. That's what Fiat money means. And so, you know, who's making the decree? It's the government. So they're totally intertwined with each other. And so, yeah, it's always been the people who had the biggest wallets who were able to influence the president. And unfortunately, in 2017, there weren't as many people who were funding the president. You know, it was just the, I think it was mainly this wave of libertarianism that kind of got Trump into power. But the moment he was in power, he took credit for, you know, squashing the Bitcoin pump that happened in 2017. So you'll never persuade me to believe that Trump loves Bitcoin for the sake of Bitcoin. I, you know, it's quite apparent that he's just nodding to whoever's willing to pay the most. And that's what every president has done. So who can complain? I totally agree. I think that the thing with the CBDCs, just on that point specifically, yeah, we can kind of pull that out as for a lot of libertarians, the idea of CBDCs is revolting. But I think it's pretty clear to anybody who's got their eyes open that what's actually happening is that Wall Street's just going to do the stablecoins, right? The Wall Street, the stablecoins are where the money's going to be made. And so it's just kind of shifted to, we were worried about CBDCs and the government controlling a digital currency. So now it's just going to be basically the Wall Street. They're still going to have all the control mechanisms. They're going to be able to spy on you. There's going to be all this KYC stuff. It's still going to happen. It's just going to happen in stablecoins. And so, you know, we've avoided kind of one devil and we've kind of moved on to the other devil, which, you know, crypto will have to battle with going forward. But overall, I think that, you know, Bitcoiners specifically, they got what they wanted. Maybe a little bit delayed with Ross, you know, it wasn't exactly within 24 hours, but they still got it, right? And so, yeah, very, very bullish for Bitcoiners, which is, I mean, you just see though, you know, bullish news doesn't necessarily reflect in price. And that's just, that's just markets. Markets are crazy like this. And that's the way it goes. Well, you know what they say? When you buy a politician, you get what you paid for. And just like I was saying last week, it's not the end of the drug war. I don't think it's the end of the Bitcoin war or the cryptocurrency war. It seems to me like some very smart people have bought temporary protection from a very big gangster. And if that pays off for everyone in the end, we're going to see if it pays off for everyone in the short term, that might not be so well in the long term. But we're just going to have to wait and see how that turns out. That's interesting stuff. And we'll try to keep talking about it and less politics. Moving on to issue two, more politics. Jesse Powell, a friend of the show and a founder of the Exchange Crackin is up in arms on Twitter saying that Roger Verre should be pardoned. Roger Verre gave up his citizenship. Allegedly, the IRS says that he said he had zero bitcoins when exiting the country. And he gave them as a gift to his partner at the time or holding them in companies, companies that were then in the United States. Allegedly, the IRS has provided no offer to Mr. Verre, no monetary amount that he could pay to avoid prison. Jesse Powell sees this as a major miscarriage of justice. Jameson Lopp is on the other side saying that Roger Verre has a political persecution ploy and you don't actually understand that charges against him. Jameson claims that Roger has likely received offers but is not willing to take them or pay the government what they want. According to the government, Roger may have had access to upwards or equal to 58,000 bitcoins. And as it says here, Elon Musk, Roger Verre gave up his US citizenship. No pardon for Verre. Membership has its privileges. As Jameson says, Verre pardon me, Musk, you are now citizenship. Verre identify as an American. Trump, we're not doing that anymore. We're not doing the pardons or we're not doing what? But let's talk about it here. Adam McBride, what do you think about Roger Verre and the pardon situation? I think that governments, US government in this particular case, weaponize their laws against certain people. And tax law in the US specifically over the history of the US has been this one where they can always get you. Always. It doesn't matter what you've done with your taxes unless you literally don't make any money. You are always subject to persecution because the tax law is so complicated. And if you have any real amount of wealth at all, the tax law is so ridiculously complicated that you inherently have done something wrong by nature. Every single person has. And so it's just a matter of, do we want to get you or not? And did Roger do might this is all just personal belief? Do I believe Roger probably fudge numbers on his way out? Probably. Should they come after him ten years after the fact, after he's given up his citizenship and exited the country? You know, it's kind of ridiculous. It is ridiculous. Should there, I mean, we could get into the talk of should there even be an ex attacks? You know, is that even constitutional? Is any of this constitutional to steal from your people? But do I think they did this for political reasons? Absolutely. I think it is at that point. And I think that's why people are calling for a pardon. Not that he necessarily didn't do something wrong. He very well might have. But the question is, okay, if he did skim on his taxes a little bit, how much was it? How much should he pay? And rather than do that, which I think could be considered rational, it's just we're holding out a hundred and six years in prison for you or whatever. And they just use it as a, as a, a bludgeon and a stick to be able to scare everybody else to being terrified about the US government and the tax situation. And so it, it goes to just the general law fair that we saw against Trump and we see against anybody who steps out of line, taxes is always the way they come after you. And so I see that in this case as well. And it's just sad to see and it's sad to see that you know, guy who did so much for crypto and Bitcoin is the one taking that heat. I tend to side a little bit more with James in here. I do believe that the IRS has made them an offer. However, it might be an offer far too large for them to pay who knows how many of those Bitcoins he still has so on and so forth. How many were lost in boating accidents and such. I mean, people were saying how he teach, exchange it at all for whatever Bitcoin cash. And I mean, he might know, we often think all these guys in crypto are rich and this guy's got, you know, a hundred million dollar. He might not, you know what I mean? And so he might not be in this great situation. We all feel like it's thrown down 40 million dollars. Right. On this show, he did say that he traded all of his Bitcoin for Bitcoin cash, but it was a very kind of propaganda period. There's also the recent story where I forget the exact exchange, but Roger owed them a large amount of money and he did not pay them. So normally when you're a billionaire or whatever he is, you just pay people. I don't think he did that. It is tough here. A little bit, I want to side, unfortunately, with Elon Musk a little bit where membership does have its privileges, the slogan of American Express credit card. He didn't want to be a citizen. How can you pardon someone who's not a citizen? What are we parting him for? This whole exit tax thing. I agree with Adam. It's very hard to understand. It's certainly not, you know, a letter of the law and the constitution or something. They tell you like, hey, if you want to move to another country in the United States, surprise you have to pay them. I don't know what it is. The average amount of your taxes for the last five years in the future for 10 years, something like that. No, it's a tax on all your assets, all your assets. And if you can't wait, if you can't pardon somebody who's not a US citizen, how can you prosecute somebody who's not a US citizen? And this gets into the US government's overreach, just being able to pluck citizens out of other countries. I mean, it's crazy. It's literally crazy. Also, I think there's also there's some kind of like problem here with the value of the assets. I've seen some people estimating that the 58,000 Bitcoin, well, it seems like an immeasurable fortune right now was like 14 K, 28 K, something like that at the time of him exiting the, are trying to exit the country. So the fact that he had incredible foresight, shouldn't hurt him here. Like you say, though, Adam, it does seem a little fishy him giving it to a partner, him having the companies hold it instead of himself. It seems like he tried not to pay this tax. Whereas on the flip side, if he just says, okay, I have X number of Bitcoin, here's your money. And then he goes out of the country and to his, you know, surprise or whatever Bitcoin goes up in value, it's not really his fault. Well, Jesse did get that wrong when Jesse came up with that number of like 30 grand or whatever, that was wrong. He was using like 2011 numbers when Roger actually exited it was like 2014. So it was like, say $1,000 of Bitcoin, right? But then it does get into this thing. Okay, $1,000 of Bitcoin was the high of Bitcoin that year and he ate 58,000 of them. Okay, that's a lot of money. It's 58 million dollars. All right. But if he had to then sell half of them to pay that tax, what would the price of Bitcoin be if he had dumped 24, whatever, million Bitcoin into the market it would have gone, you know, or whatever it was, 24,000. You know, so it's very difficult to, you know, estimate these things. But again, to your point, which I don't think you're necessarily wrong, did he try to scoot around it? Of course, but that's what every rich person, every person on the planet does. You're supposed to try and scoot around it, right? You're just, I mean, it's just that gets to the point of all, why would you do that? You do that to try and avoid taxes. This is what every single person with any sense does. That's why you hire accountants and tax lawyers and all this other garbage, right? So just another reason to get rid of this. All of the personal taxes, man. This is the reason why so we don't have to play this stupid game anymore and the government can't use this against this. I love your altruistic idea that he did it to save the market. I can't. No, no, no, just not. Just a little bit coin. No, no, no, no. I'm saying from a valuation standpoint, it would have been very difficult if he had to sell it. What is the actual value? Is that the top value of the market that particular year? Or if he had to sell those, would that have impacted the market, which obviously would have, because it was a very small market? That's all I'm saying. No. I do think it would have been that thing where he starts selling and the price does start going down and he starts getting less and less for each additional sell, especially if he was forced to sell immediately, but it might have been another bear whale. Victoria Jones, what do you think about Roger Vier and his troubles with the taxman? Well, I mean, I, you know, as I mentioned just a moment ago, I think Trump's really opened this can of worms by pardoning Ross because obviously there were crimes involved with Ross. I mean, I agree that his sentence was particularly harsh, which probably, you know, justifies easing the sentence, but the thing is, you know, this is what the courts are for to kind of go through the ins and outs and go through, go through the particulars of these things. I think part of the problem in America is that there doesn't seem to be any unity or any stable grounds for any of these judgments. And so what you have is judges who are too far reaching with their punishments, which then kind of the pendulum swings in totally the opposite direction with the president having to pardon someone because it was too harsh in the first place. And then it kind of creates all of these other problems with, well, if it's okay for him, what about this person who may well have done something wrong, but are they being too harsh? And then you get to something ridiculous, which is like, Sam Bankman Friedrich is one of our later stories. So it's just like, where do you draw the line? You know, this is the problem when you don't have consistency and you don't have ratified fairness. You need people need to understand that there's a system that makes sure that things are judged fairly, you know, everything's assessed fairly. People are punished fairly. And then you don't have people second guessing, you know, whether or not someone in the past was punished unfairly. So this person's, you know, you don't start to get caught by, you know, most of the population, you know, this is when you start to things really start to break down because, you know, people have an inherent sense of fairness. And it's part of our social contract. We need to believe that, you know, we're being treated at least somewhat fairly in order for us to feel like we should take part in the rules that are meant to govern all of us. But when those laws become a nonsense, you know, it's a free-frault. You know, there are no standards anymore. You know, people, people can almost get away with anything. It's like, you know, you can run a dot-web market that, you know, potentially is responsible for murdering people and that gets you upon. And it's like, where'd you draw the line? And I know, you know, some of those things are controversial. But, you know, if you just have a brief conversation with someone along those lines, it's just like, okay, so I think it's very tricky. I think, you know, Tom really has opened a can of worms. I understand that there's a lot of rich Bitcoiners and they have their principles. But, you know, it's like, you know, money, power corrupts and all money corrupts and absolute power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And money is a tool of power. And I think this is an example of where it's being taken too far. I think ultimately with Bitcoin, it completely redesigns our legal system because, you know, at the moment, our legal system relies on government, which relies on Fiat currency, which is money by decree. Obviously, Bitcoin disrupts the Fiat currency system, which ultimately is going to disrupt the government, which will have a knock on effect in how our rules are made. It may well be that our rules are made locally in the future and we're not going to have global judge and jury via the media. It's going to be a very different thing based on what's happening locally than globally at the moment. So, you know, this is a swan song, folks. This is not going to be the situation for ever. Things are changing now. It does seem like it's open the door to millions of dollars equals pardon. So I don't know if Ross isn't willing to pay Trump or if he's not willing to pay the IRS or not Ross, I mean, Roger, sorry, isn't willing to pay Trump, isn't willing to pay the IRS, who he's not willing to pay, but it does seem if you pay. You get to play. There's also been talk recently about pardoning Snowden and it's the same thing with Ross as Snowden. They're saying, oh, Snowden's not a trader. Even if you support Snowden, you have to understand that he broke the law. He broke his oath. He published insider information for the person he worked for. That information was bad and was war crimes, etc. So he may be a hero, but he's still kind of also a trader. In the same way, Ross, the drug war is not over. He didn't get pardoned because the president agrees that we should have an open market for drugs and people should use what they want. The president seems temporarily swayed by millions of dollars and votes. In some ways, there's certainly a miscarriage of justice aspect to the Ross case. There's the strange murder for higher things and all of that as well, but it doesn't seem like that was taken into account, especially when we have a president that's signing executive orders like they're bringing in menus. He's like, what's on the menu today? What's the special? And they're like, oh, we're leaving the WHO. Fantastic. And he signs it. Yeah, it doesn't seem very deliberative. There wasn't a great speech or discussion of Ross and his care. I mean, there's a tweet or a true social or whatever, but yeah, it's very strange. Wait, are you saying governments run by money and influence? It's so cool. It didn't used to be so open. It didn't used to be so open. And that actually is a great point. At least now, we do have this ability to communicate with ourselves globally one-to-one. Where we can have this out in the open and it's wide open. And at least we see it, you know, what's happening. And you and I can discuss and say, hey, should Ross have gotten out? You know, we can discuss it. But at least it's out there in the open now rather than just kind of behind closed doors. And Hardin's happened and nobody knows what's even happening. So at least we can debate it out now. Well, remember the last time we had an oligarchy of Robert Barons, we had two world wars and a great depression. So it didn't work out that well. And there was a reaction to that. They may have taken a great deal of power as oligarchs and been kings of the world for a very long time. But there was a reaction. So it does seem still like an open game and an open system. Moving on to the exit question, Elon Musk emailed to X-F. We're barely breaking even the Wall Street Journal reports that banks are close to selling some of the $13 billion in debt they took on by helping Musk by Twitter in 2022. Adam, Adam McBride, what do you think will Elon Musk close or sell X? It's, I definitely don't think he will. It's the greatest megaphone in the world for me. He couldn't ask for a better megaphone. You know, to your point, Robert Barons and the old days would buy newspapers, right? Newspapers were the great way. If they could get their word out and have their voice heard. Now, it's, you know, Elon made the genius move of buying a social media company. Complete genius. It doesn't matter how much money it makes. It's infinitely valuable to him. So the money doesn't matter. You know, it sucks, honestly, as an ad platform, dealing with a business who, you know, actually has some ad credits. This last week I started getting in there. It's garbage. It just doesn't have like to build out what a Facebook or a Google, you know, has built out as far as like an ad revenue platform. It's tremendously difficult to do. Twitter obviously never put in the time and money in effort to build that out. So the ads on Twitter suck. You guys probably have never bought anything off an ad on Twitter. I certainly never have. And so whether he ever fixes that or not, I think it's almost irrelevant to him. I think his, his boasting about how little money it makes just lets him keep staff small and run a type shit. I think that's what that's all about. I agree. He's lost millions. He's been a disaster for the investors, but it doesn't matter. It's such a great source of propaganda and such an influencer of the world as well as changing the algorithm, changing what people see. However, if it was sold, I think it would be renamed to Twitter right away. They'd bring back the bird icon. I have some kind of plug in that changes it to the bird icon. I think everyone should get that. But it's a very, it's also sad what's happened with like Adam was saying, not just the ads, but if you've gained any kind of influence on Twitter, they don't show your tweets to people unless you pay. The same thing happened on Facebook. They ask you to pay to see your followers. The same thing even happened right here on YouTube where it's subscribing used to matter and they used to show the videos to subscribers now. If you don't click on it three times consecutively or something like that, they pull the thing. They don't start recommending it. It's so much more algorithm based that a lot of people and myself included here for what it is have built up a small amount of following that now they can't reach unless they pay, which is like, are you really reaching it or are you getting some new following now? You're getting a boost and the same thing on Facebook. If you pay for the ads, I don't know on YouTube, I guess the same thing or now you have to make shorts. So hello, shorts, fans. Well, dude, it's so out like you just said, it's so algo based that you basically have to create kind of viral content. What is viral content? It's click baity, it's hate, it's anger. It creates the worst kind of content and that's the world we live in right now in these ad based models. I actually wish, I mean, I do pay for the premium on X and my company pays for the ridiculously expensive like $1,000 a month, you know, business premium. I was hoping that he would have been able to basically remove all ads, make it, you know, subscriber base where you just pay for it like a service and do away with ads altogether and be able to do away with that click baity stuff. But that doesn't seem to have happened on any platform I'm on right now. I agree. It does turn towards the lowest comment denominator. And remember, we built all of these social networks, the internet itself after the original DOD plans, we built it on who could build it the cheapest with the ads, which was Facebook and MySpace and other things like this. And it's really worked out that way for us. Victoria Jones, what do you think about Elon Musk and Trouble at Twitter? Will he sell X? Well, Trouble at Twitter doesn't surprise me actually. I mean, it's definitely not the platform it was. It used to be a real joy to be on there and it was much easier to kind of interact with people and feel like you're making a difference in terms of what you're able to say. But, you know, the way in which they've tuned the algorithms, it's just not as rewarding anymore. I mean, I actually pay for Twitter, you know, when Elon Musk came out saying that he's supported free speech. I was like, well, I'm in support of that. I'm happy to support you financially. But it's definitely not the same as it was. I don't like the new logo. I've also still got the Twitter feed that I had from when I was a dentist, but I'm now not allowed to access it because I refuse to give them my data birth because that one I don't pay for. Whereas this one that I pay for, even though they keep asking me for the data birth, I keep saying no, but it's like, you know, it's just if they insist I don't pay for it anymore. So it's like, we'd rather have your 10 pounds a month than insist you pay for your data birth. And so it's quite apparent what they're trying to do. I mean, Elon Musk has made no qualms about the fact that he wanted to create it into this massive payment network. But of course, in order to do that, you've got to verify people which require a buyer's people having their data birth. But of course, you know, as Bitcoin, as we understand that part of the problem with centralized money is especially if you've got KYC, it's the tool for a lot of data companies to gather your data over, you know, what you spend your money on. And who wants that? We all know, well, actually not everyone does know the path that that's going to lead you down, but you know, that's total control. And it's dictatorship. It's incredibly, it's incredibly dangerous. And I've always maintained that actually the strategy of the government has always been to have some kind of centralized digital currency. It gives them incredible power. I strongly suspect that Satoshi Nakamoto, when he invented Bitcoin, he was a developer who understood that this was the direction in which it was going in. And I think a lot of those early developers in understanding that were highly motivated to try and create something else and get ahead of it. And they were successful in doing so, which is why we have Bitcoin today. And of course, you know, if you've got a crypto president who allows crypto on the base of the fact that everyone's a fan of Bitcoin, then suddenly, Bitcoin's banned. But all other crypto is okay. You know, the banks get what they were aiming for originally. And the software that was meant to save us is completely out of the picture. You know, so, and as we're going to come and talk to, you know, all the recent executive orders, okay, he freed Ross, but there was nothing in not a single piece of legislation that he signed straight after he was made president, included Bitcoin anywhere in it at all. And people need to be aware of that. We'll have to see what turns out. I always said that I would pay for Twitter, but I wanted the old Twitter. The one like Victoria said, they had the good algorithm where people could talk to you. And like Adam was saying, it was more like a club with subscriptions. And you would have no ads and that I would be paying to support the website, not whatever's happening now where you're paying to get influence and power and boosts and these kinds of status. So, yeah, that's the worst option. The Victoria's point about the payments and stuff. It is just to keep an eye on, with Elon trying to push forward. And I know he has some partnerships and stuff with Visa and came out that he's really trying to create a payment layer on X. Just keep your eyes peeled because, you know, when you talk about like, uh, biology with this network state idea, um, you know, think about how close we were to Facebook having, you know, the first real network state when they tried to do their crypto, basically got shut down by the government. You know, uh, telegram with their Tron, our Ton network, uh, he's, he's pushing for it. It hasn't really happened there. But Elon really is in maybe the best position to create a really, really large network state. Uh, if you ever get the payments figured out, so just keep an eye on that. Meanwhile they're not even allowing Twitter links from the outside world. You can't even share it unless you have an account. And I do agree with Victoria. It is possible that they change the rules and the laws so that they only allow cryptos who have a founder and that founder has a birthday. And if you don't have that and an identification card and a picture and so on and so forth Satoshi Nakamoto, uh, then I think you could be out of luck because again, they, they paid him. They got a pardon. They got a really nice executive order and they got, I think, a temporary reprieve. If they change their mind on any of these things, uh, they could change it with another executive order. Crypto is now illegal. Bitcoin is now illegal. Uh, Trump coin is the official coin. Or Melania coin. It's even USA, baby. You'll govern by executive order. All you have to do is sign it. Moving on. World crypto network at worldcryptoneetwork.com. We've got 4,000 and eight videos, 4,100 and eight videos that you can watch for more than three days, twenty, three months, 20 days, 21 hours consecutively. It's been 11 years, one month and 26 days since our first video issue three bit wise files to launch dogecoin ETF. The asset managers and among a number of issuers seeking ETFs for the meme coin. It's finally happened. Dogecoin ETF has been filed. Adam McBride, what do you think about dogecoin? The ETF. Uh, I love it. It'd be really, really great and fun. My feeling is that, uh, and we talked about this briefly off the air, but, you know, it's kind of between like doge. I know there's a lot of people pushing for Litecoin. Salana actually for me feels like they're going to be the winner only because money's involved, you know, and you have a lot of a lot of powerful rich people, including David's acts, very connected into the, you know, current administration. That just feels to me like Salana has the best chance because it, and it to be clear too. It's the winning like blockchain other than Bitcoin in this cycle. It's the one, right? The meme coin explosion Salana has been the one. So my gut says Salana, but could be dogecoin. I don't personally think it's Litecoin, although I'd love, you know, Litecoin, uh, holders to get a win. Um, but I feel like it's going to be Salana that that's actually my guess on this. Surprise. The answer is ripple. That could be, bro. I don't want it. I don't want it to be that with this dogecoin ETF. I think that Jackson Palmer is just rolling over in his grave. He doesn't do public opinions anymore or appearances anymore. My friend Jackson, who created dogecoin as a joke because he didn't like cryptocurrency. He hated cryptocurrency. This is like the Grinch and he's like, I'll get those who villains. I'm going to create a infinitely expanding coin. It'll have no value at all. I'll put this popular internet meme on it. The doge. I'll change the words to Comic Sans. I'm mocking Bitcoiners and to see potentially an ETF, uh, which again, I don't think he had any doge. I think he hated doge. He hated Bitcoin. And uh, now it's going to be an ETF. It was and it's a government agency. How great is that? Bro, it's the greatest. It's like the greatest like thing ever in crypto. It is him and Billy, obviously created dogecoin and like the whole, the whole idea that it's become, you know, Elon's pet project and a government agency is, uh, it's perfect. Man, it's incredible. Poor Jackson. It really is a government agency because the power of the coin, not just the doge meme, the power of the Shiba Inu in itself, but the doge coin, which like you said, Elon adopted and it shows what can happen with a meme, uh, something like Pepe. You put it out there. It's a nice cartoon. People put horrible things on it. It becomes a bad cartoon. Doge goes out there. It's a big joke. Now it's an ETF and allegedly a government department, whatever it is, whatever's going on over there. Um, we'll see how that all turns out. It'll, it'll be in all the lawsuits. It'll be in all the charges and the trials that United States government versus doge. Victoria Jones, what do you think about a dogecoin ETF? Are you lining up to invest? Well, I don't see why there should just be one. I mean, you know, why not have open silly season in the financial markets? I mean, hey, we had it in the crypto markets in 2017. It's time the financial markets got a taste of just how stupid these things can be. And after all, they're completely desperate because the financial system is a teetering on the brink. So, you know, they need to throw everything they can at it in order to get the money swishing around in order for them to make money. So, and the crypto peeps, you know, have a head start on this. Anyone who was around in 2017 has been able to see exactly how it can play out. And in fact, Trump coin and Melania coin have already demonstrated exactly what happens in the ICO season. And, you know, why not allow the ETFs to have a taste of all of that glory. And anyone with any sense who invested in Bitcoin and saw that Bitcoin survived it all would know that ultimately that's the one that you want to buy. But yeah, obviously quick bucks through the mean coins. But, you know, if you want a steady sensible solution, then Bitcoin is for the win. They say there's a guy on pump.fun who created more than 1700 mean coins logging in day after day, spending eight hours just making coins all day long. They may say you made over 800,000 dollars. Hi, but moving on to the surprise. It's only 1700. I would have thought of 17,000 or 170,000. Oh, there's got to be copier now. I mean, there's got to be hundreds of working on it factories, man. But we have the truth right here. We can tell you what the price is going to be this time next week. Adam McBride, the price of Bitcoin higher or lower? Oh, we're definitely lower. It's dropping like a rock. Victoria Jones sticking with the pessimism higher or lower? I'm not always pessimistic. I think Bitcoin is infinitely able to surprise us. So why not higher? I'm always optimistic, but the reason we covered the tariff stories at the beginning of this show is you might think they're boring like 18th century history, but it will affect you and it will affect the Bitcoin market, even if we want to pretend otherwise, however, I'm still bullish Bitcoin always goes up. But the ball knows all will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Concentrate and ask again. Concentrate and ask me. And that's why you have great power. You just don't share that knowledge. Now you just have to see what happens. Moving on to issue four. Netflix hit with a cease and desist over the bitfinex to Bitcoin heist documentary. Lawyers for Heather, Rosalcon Morgan, accused Netflix and library films of violating the privacy of wedding guests and spreading false claims allegedly, Rosalcon and her husband, Ilia, worthy hackers from bitfinex stealing hundreds of bitcoins and then trading them for Walmart gift cards and PlayStation 5's. Adam McBride, I wanted to watch this movie. I'm disappointed if it's desisted and if it is ceasing, I also want to watch the live action acted out version that I think Amazon Prime is working on. I forget the name of that, but I'm a huge Rosalcon fan, especially learning that she's from Chico, California. Adam, what do you think about the cease and desist in their attempt to stop the film? I'm surprised they're trying to tamp it down. I would have thought she would be like all four having, you know, more attention on her, more like Netflix now. Like when she comes out, I mean, it is going to be game on for her. I mean, Jesus, do you think about when she comes out of jade? Her ability to make money on pump fun or whatever it's going to be off. It's going to be crazy. She's going to be like a celebrity when she gets out. So I'm surprised she actually wanted to tamp this down. Maybe the tamping down is just simply to ramp it up eventually, you know, Netflix will get it through and we'll be able to watch this. This chit-chot, but she is, she's a, she's a complete character. We were talking a bit ago. It is this is the kind of the crazy to Victoria's point about like our legal system and how it's just completely out of whack. It can get right. I don't know. Somebody selling fireworks. We were talking about Roger Vare or whatever. He got four years for selling fireworks out of his apartment as a 18 year old kid. This lady got three years, I think, for stealing like a half a billion dollars or whatever it was like three years. And the dude who was like the main dude, he got like five years. It's like, what? What? How many lives did they impact by stealing all that? Like a lot of lives, a lot. And yeah, they didn't kill anybody necessarily, but I mean, they impacted thousands of people's lives. And they got three years. Like it's, it's nuts. So, you know, it is what it is, but it's a crazy story and I want to hear more about it because it's, it's crazy and she's obviously insane. So that's fun. It does seem like she's going to be a star. I agree with you Adam. I think it's the right take that this could just be promotion for the Netflix film and that Rosalind simply wants her name in more lawsuits in more articles so she can prep for her future rap career as they've done in other industries such as the worldwide wrestling federation, WWE or WWF. And it now seems like they're doing in the UFC literally having a person who supports Nazi views as one of the fighters and Dana White saying that I do not support Nazi views and I agree with him on that. But his suggestion was to root against the fighter, which is the literal definition of K-Fabe from the old wrestling days, which I didn't think UFC had, but I guess they're getting into now in many ways this Rosalind case. It seems like she protested too much. It seems K-Fabe to me. Victoria Jones, what do you think they're suing? They went to a wedding and now it's a documentary. Yeah, I've actually watched it. It is surprisingly just, I mean it's shocking to me that she's a celebrity. It really is. It's just so bad, it's good. Some people just really love that kind of crashed car TV. But I found it cringey to watch. I was like, really? And it's really hard to believe that she's responsible for stealing a billion dollars. And clearly the person she teamed up with may well have had the skill, but it turns out she might actually be way more intelligent than would be apparent based on her pop videos. So yeah, it's an interesting one. I mean, I read the article and I can believe that the thing she claims, Netflix embellished, they did embellish because of course they're a media company and of course they're now the most important media company. And actually it's not the first time that they've embellished details in a story that's got them in trouble. There's a famous series in the UK called Baby Rain Dear where exactly the same thing happened in the person who came off looking badly from that ended up suing them as well. And so you know, it is a bit of a pattern, I think Netflix is clearly going to try and extend the reach of their story. And actually that's a really bad thing to do because that can ruin people's lives. So considering, yes, she may have a case to answer to, but the IRS is already somewhat dealing with that. Netflix needs to be reigned in as well. And so if she's using some of her crypto profits to give them a bump on the nose, then she gets my vote. Good for her. It is an exciting time for Bitcoin documentaries. We had HBO Max accusing Peter Todd of being Satoshi. And in the style of Rosalcon, there's the Richard Hart documentary, the highest of stakes, all of these things, still unfolding in public. Again, I just want to watch them. I hope it comes out soon. And I'm a big supporter of women rights, women's rights. And that means equal sentencing. I think she's just as smart as Ilya, as Victoria was saying, she should probably have gotten the same sentence. It doesn't seem fair. Rosalcare line, Ellison, was let out with the whole sandbank when Fried thing. Where's the crime? You know, you can't be sure of the time. Equal rights, right? I then probably disagree. We're running out of time. We got quick issues. Let's keep going. Ross Obrex, wallet is losing millions of dollars on pump.fund meme coins. I don't know how it works out, but they had $12 million and they put it into the wrong liquidity pool. And they got the wrong things out of it. Adam and Brad, can you help us figure out what's going on? It's allegedly wallets belonging to Ross Obrek from the old days. And did they invest in some Ross? No, it's not the old, what it is is basically somebody sent him these meme coins. And he, rather than just sell them all one time, he did actually the, the, what most people would consider the right thing to do, which is you one side of liquidity pool. So people can buy the tokens, but it doesn't just dump them all on the market. And, but that takes some experience and you got to know what you're doing. And he doesn't and didn't and basically lost, basically a bot came in and like swiped them all. And it sounds like yeah, he set the price too low and the bot men and bought it all up. Hey, crypto's hard, man. Crypto's hard. And when you try to do stuff like that, if you're not seasoned and you don't know exactly what you're doing, it's very easy to lose your money. And he did, you know, but it wasn't really his to be, it was, you know, somebody gave it to him. And so it's not like he lost money on the deal. And I think he still made some money on the deal. I mean, the more interesting question is how many dust wallets does he have floating around? That's, that's the far more interesting question to me. People are estimating upwards of, you know, I don't know, 14,000 bitcoins floating around in dust wallets. I don't know. Have you talked about that yet? Last week we said that he might have access to $47 million. However, his original stash would be worth billions. So like you're saying, if he has ones we don't know about, those would be the best ones to have. Facts. As they said in Heist, I try to think of what somebody smarter than me would do. And then I do that. Sorry, Jones. What do you think about Ross and his fun times on the meme coin markets? Well, you know, day three out of prison, do you really want to be experimenting with $12 million? You know, you might want a bit of training before you do that risk. You're just being hard. And going right out on the markets. But you know, if you've got a billion dollars in reserve, then who cares, you know, might as well, you know, give it all away in one throw. Why not? But yeah, it's a shame there. You know, it's a lot of people would work for a long time to make that kind of money. So yeah, it's worth crying over, I think. Well, I mean, let's be clear. Ross is set like for a like Ross is good. Even if he has zero Bitcoin, he's such a hero in the Bitcoin community. He could basically, you know, be the face of a company or whatever. He's good. He just screw it up. Like this is the screwing it up part that you might want to get some better advisors to navigate this a little bit better. Like you said, there should even be, you know, giving out his Salana address, probably not, probably not, you know, he's going to be the face of Bitcoin better to lean into Bitcoin and not go go down the road of meme coins, you know, yeah. I think you'd have to have a retreat by a cabin. Exactly. I mean, wouldn't I go on vacation to Florida first and I wouldn't touch a computer at all, right? Well, people are crazy, man. And you know what? Like, look, I mean, again, this is the type of thing. You know, people did race. He's got a few hundred thousand dollars. At least people raised just in a donation wallet. But even that, it's like you don't know situations and stuff and somebody's like, shoot, you have a million dollars sitting here. Okay, let me click, click, click, click, click, click, and it's gone, you know, that's, that's crypto, man. Well, and he does know what he did before because he ran a website and he made all the stuff and he's a programmer. So he knows what you're doing. He's, you know, that was a, then off, he's been off the game for a while, man. He's been out of the game, dude. You forget, you get, you get sloppy. Speaking of out of the game, Sam Bankman freed is back in the news. His parents want President Trump to pardon their convicted son. The last time we talked about Sam Bankman freed Elon Musk said on Twitter that President Biden was going to pardon SPF. We all waited with baited breath as the clock ticked down and no pardon appeared. Now they want Trump to pardon him. Remember that SPF bribed both sides of the political system, Democrats above the board, Republicans below. Adam McBride, what do you think? Should they? Your powers parent? That's not enough to you. Why aren't, why aren't they in jail? What are they doing free? Like how did that happen? How did that happen? They took millions of dollars from not his money. I mean, oh, they didn't know. Okay, they still, how, how did they not get any time? I just they introduced him to all their friends. Well, it's just to eat this. They mean back is coming. They went down there and were accountants are active on the project allegedly and so forth. I mean, how is it that half the conversations we've had already on this show are all about government and corrupt government and not fair playing field and all this shit? I mean, it's just shit. We have to understand the governments are shit. They run stuff like shit. They are shit. They're inherently corrupt. And the only job of the people us is to trim them back all the time because they're like evil weeds that are growing to take our lives. We need to chop them down. That's all we should be doing. Well, we all know that the first things Satoshi did after he created Bitcoin was to launch his own meme coins, Satoshi coin, and then he created an S coin exchange where he could then sell said meme coins because that's what you do if you invent something cool. Again, this is the classic pattern we've seen before. Bitcoin is really cool. It's too expensive. I can't buy enough of it. Maybe I can attach my business onto it, whether your business is coin base or your business is shit coins, your business is NFTs or whatever it is. We're going to attach on to Bitcoin and steal some of its success for us. SBF with his company FTX, all these fantastic initialisms clearly tried to do the same. Like I was saying, he tried to purchase government protection from both sides for his company. Because of the raise he had, he was in a strong position and able to do it. Also allegedly because he was dipping into customer funds. Always a bad look. That even a legend. That's like that like happened. There's no legend there. I see that. I have everything now. But Victoria Jones, what do you think? SBF, his parents won him free. He's a good dude. It's like these other people like Adam said, he only cost people a fortune and probably their life savings. Yeah, I think it's terrible. If I were a swearing person, I would have more to say, but I like to remain polite in these situations. But yes, it's terrible. It's terrible. It shouldn't be allowed. You should never get out of jail. Ever. The rest of his life period, full stop and his parents should be ashamed themselves. It does seem like a reason that they are going public and asking for this pardon. Certainly Ross, you know, 10, 11 years in jail, kind of a political prisoner, kind of a protest thing. What was SBF protesting? Him not having enough money. Like where's the kind of political act? He was a right-winger. He was a left-winger. What? I don't think he's any of those things. He seems he was clearly out for himself. All the things that we know about him, fortunately, unfortunately, what everyone has said, have been proven horribly false. I remember this incredible TikTok video where the guy says, look at this guy. He's a billionaire and he drives a Honda, a Ford. He doesn't care about money yet, right? He's going to save the world. And I couldn't believe watching it then and I can't believe watching it now on the other side of this. But it just seems so ridiculous the whole time. Or again, I and the other crypto people were not into this. They were not in our face with us except for buying Blockfolio. This was similar to the Facebook rollout where it happened in little East Coast colleges. You know, FTX and these altcoins or whatever people were buying on there was being sold to retail investors in other countries. It would be being sold by other avenues that were not privy to the Bitcoin people and where the Bitcoin people would say, hey, you know, keep your eye on that. Don't keep your coins all on the exchange. This kind of thing. I don't think any of those warnings were given to the FTX people and they all went down with the ship. All right. I think we're running out of time. I'm a bride to have a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Oh, story of the week. Well, I guess AI is really the thing dominating kind of my mind right now in crypto. And I know we kind of just had our first wave of like, how does crypto and AI work together? And so if you're on the timeline on Twitter, you see AI XBT. This is basically a Twitter bot, right? And it's easy to wave that off and hand wave it away. But I think once you get your head around the idea that, um, hey, the most important and impactful KOL on Twitter, on crypto Twitter, at least, is a robot. I think you start understanding that AI is really, really important. And for me and what I'm working on with my team, the idea of abstracting away crypto, so that like in the case of a Ross, Ross making that mistake, cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars, uh, that's something that AI can really, really help with. And so I'm really excited about that. That's what we got going on on the timeline is using AI as like this, this layer to help normies navigate crypto. I think that's really exciting. And I'm excited for the next year to see where that goes and gets us away from like this wallet infrastructure, which is so clunky and bad and confusing and causes a lot of people to lose a lot of money. So that's what I'm excited about. AI is very exciting. I wish I had more time to tell the AI to do more things for me. Amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. Victoria Jones, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Well, I'm still focused on teaching people the fundamentals of, you know, how money and currency works. So they understand how to make better choices in the crypto industry. So my latest newsletter is Bitcoin as a currency, which is published on my website called Satoshi's page.com. I actually published it a couple of weeks ago, but I haven't been able to join you on the world crypto network because of various things that have happened. So it's the first time I've been on for one. The first time I've had, first child's have had to tell you about it. So yeah, if you're interested in that or want to educate your friends, it's also on my website in French, Spanish and German as well. So if you've got, if you've got friends who speak other languages, so yeah, check that out if you're interested. Go into bar. That's great to hear. Check it out at Satoshi's page.com. And I just want to thank everybody for joining us. That's a great chance to push the like button below. Drop a comment, say hello in the chat. I'm going to check it after the show. And it's been a wild and crazy week as the Chinese curse says, may you live in interesting times. And we are living in interesting times with the government funds, freeze, the foreign aid freeze, the attempted shutdowns of many government divisions, so on and so forth. And like we said at the beginning of the show, whether we didn't want to talk about them at all, the tariffs against Canada and Mexico that are allegedly starting Saturday, but tomorrow. So this could all be very exciting for crypto or we could separate as an asset and completely ignore the whole thing, which is always what I think is going to happen. But who knows when it finally will. Maybe this time, maybe not. Thanks to everybody for joining us. Until next time. Bye. Bye.