The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Happy Friday folks. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hello, Griebengal. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one. Trump accepts Bitcoin. Yes, you can now donate your hard earned and hard saved Bitcoin to the billionaire who's running for re-election in the United States. Bitcoin magazine says that the Trump campaign vows to build a quote, Bitcoin and crypto army. However they do only accept Bitcoin through the new Coinbase pay system, which doesn't accept Bitcoin. David Bailey, the owner and operator of Bitcoin magazine says, there's enough room on the train for everyone. If Bitcoin becomes the decisive issue, Dems will get on the train too. It needs to be overwhelming. This is a historic moment. Leverage it. Max out your individual contribution. Give your money to the billionaire who's currently using it for legal defense. He's using all of the R&C money as well. And Bitcoin magazine says, first naive bucali and now Donald Trump coming out with full support for Bitcoin. Bitcoin quote, presidents are on the rise. Dan Eve, it's always great when someone new accepts Bitcoin, whether it's a small restaurant or a major political candidate. What do you think about the former president accepting and asking for your Bitcoin donations? Well, I mean, it's always good when companies and people do. But when this politics involved, it's a different story altogether because then you don't want Bitcoin to be politicized. Bitcoin needs to stay a political. And part of the reason is because you don't want to get, say, if Trump is completely behind Bitcoin and Biden, you know, Biden team are against it and Biden wins, then Bitcoin crashes because Bitcoin didn't win with Trump. You want it to be to help anyone to be valid and useful to anyone, any political party. So you want the best solution would be bipartisan support of Bitcoin. And both of the parties understanding and showing how it can be used for positive fundraising and for positive means in the world. But politicizing is always a bad thing, right? Because then yeah, if it loses, then it's like, well, then Mark, it's done. Oh, Trump, you know, Trump, or it becomes a kind of Trump likes Bitcoin, therefore, I hate Bitcoin because of, you know, because I have to hate everything that Trump hates. So vice versa, right? You know, if it's a Biden thing like the Biden that been supports Bitcoin, that must be stupid, you know, whoever would, whatever voice would, would, would mark a Democrat. That well, definitely wasn't a Southern voice. But yeah, you know, I mean, so I think it's just, it's best if politics stays out of it, right? It can be useful in any use case. It can be useful for truckers. It can be useful for, for, for, for, you know, for anti-fuck, it can be useful for anyone to use in a fundraising way. And it can be useful. It was money for, for anyone around the world. That's the whole point of it. It's, apelites, or, apelites, or, apelites, or just all sorts. And that's something I wanted to talk about in my response to answer to is that right now we have this kind of right-wing Bitcoin magazine where the owner is expressing his own opinions. He famously and publicly spent millions of dollars to support RFK Jr. a very right-wing candidate. Now he's very gushing and public in his public support of a similar right-wing candidate President Trump who he's supporting. That's fine, right? That's his opinion. But I think having a far right-wing Bitcoin magazine makes Bitcoin less good. I think we'd be in a better position if we had a more middle of the road, Bitcoin magazine that reported mainly on the technology. Didn't go so quickly into this support for potential dictators, et cetera. Extremely polarizing figures who, like Dan said, many people might dislike and they might say, Bitcoin is right-wing only. Bitcoin is not libertarian, Bitcoin is not liberal. It's right-wing or it's MAGA even. We have no idea where the label will come from for the Bitcoin, but the more we attach ourselves, the more we default to this position. And even if we have our own political leanings, I think that they could rise above this and they could go neutral. And it would be an advantage to everyone, even to them. But let's go some more on this, Victoria Jones. What do you think about President Trump accepting Bitcoin donations? Well, I mean, the hypocrisy of it is what gets me because I remember very clearly the Trump campaign taking credit for crashing the Bitcoin bubble in 2017. You know, there was a lot of controversy about it at the time and he's made many anti-Bitcoin statements in the past. In fact, his policy has been that he wants to support the dollar. So the fact that he's now accepting crypto payments is definitely a change around. And of course, he's a politician and he's looking for votes. And he's picked up on the fact that there are a lot of people supporting crypto currencies right now. So I think he's just taking advantage of jumping on that bandwagon. I think Kennedy, Jr. some time ago mentioned that he was supporting Bitcoin. So really, Donald Trump jumping on that bandwagon is just following his lead. And it wouldn't surprise me if Biden says the same thing in another couple of weeks. And as, you know, Dan says, it's a political money. In fact, Bitcoin completely disrupts the way in which politics even works. I mean, they clearly not figured that out yet. And even, you know, some Bitcoiners are struggling to get their head around that concept. You know, you really need to understand how money works and the history of money to understand that, you know, governments only exist the way they do now because of central banking and the way in which central banking has developed. And if you don't understand any of that stuff, go to my website, stashyspager.com and read some of my newsletters. I lay out there all for you because some of that foundational stuff, you know, helps you to understand where these things come from. I mean, the way in which government operates today is an anachronism of history. You know, even in ancient times you didn't have governments that are as big as they are today or as dysfunctional. So, you know, to my way of thinking the age of government is coming to an end, you know, this is their swan song. It doesn't really matter if they accept crypto or they don't. The fact that it's been born disrupts all of them. So it's only a matter of time. Enjoy the party while it lasts when it comes to politicians. Well, and to explore the government idea a little bit more in the Neal Stephenson sci-fi book, Snow Crash, he talks about various companies being now equal to the government. If you work at KFC, you live at KFC, you pay taxes to KFC, KFC takes care of you. The government, the United States government, the feds is another faction, similar to the mafia, similar to Pizza Hut, similar to KFC. The company you work for is your government. And I think Victoria would see this as a return to feudal times and castles and lords where it was much more distributed. This current system where you have an overarching government above everyone, even the most powerful like Jeff Bezos or whatever allegedly, allegedly above everyone. We'll see how that goes. But yes, I think it's a very different system. And Bitcoin encourages that decentralized system, that system where you could be completely supported by KFC. Your needs would be filled. You would have no reason to go to US government and all of your disputes even could be described and solved by KFC court. You could double down. But let's see, I've got more notes on this. I was just going to say, even if you're a right wing person and you support Trump, you have to still kind of see through this Bitcoin donations scam here. You have to kind of see through this. You have to rise above and you have to say, is this guy really our friend? As far as Bitcoin goes. And I don't think he's our friend. As Victoria said, he's made many speeches against Bitcoin. He's mocked it. He had the opportunity when he was president Bitcoin existed back then too. He could have done anything to support it. He did nothing. Seems like kind of a fair weather friend. And I'm going to double down on my prediction that David Bailey will get nothing for his support of Trump as he will get nothing for his support of RFK Jr. He will invest his time and his money and perhaps his reputation. And he will get nothing. The way to do politics is to support smaller candidates at the local level who actually agree with you for a libertarian person, someone libertarian, for a Bitcoin person, someone who actually agrees with Bitcoin and to support them when they're small and when it's early. And you lose a ton of those. You don't get the all or one where like put it all in Bitcoin president. It's a beautiful idea. I would be wonderful if it worked, right? Not this guy of course, but the generic idea of guy who supports Bitcoin becomes president. Great. But how is that really going to happen? A caucus of Bitcoin people, a bunch of representatives who support Bitcoin rising up from the ground floor, supporting for their own reasons and even better supporting it a politically. Not a right wing Bitcoin caucus, but a generic multi party multi idea Bitcoin caucus who have different views on Bitcoin who rise above. And we could have this if we want it. If we target this, if they redirected Bitcoin magazine, pulled away from the cliff of supporting every dictator that comes along, we could have a more middle of the ground Bitcoin support. And I think we'd be more successful long term. But I think we're going pretty good not getting into the politics here. I just have real friends, cypherpunks, freedom advocates, not this guy. Not this guy. Dandy have more on this incredibly hot political issue. President Trump accepts Bitcoin donations. No, just that just that, yeah, we would be interested in how Biden reacts because Bitcoin is also seen as cryptocurrency is one of these kind of new fads, right? It's the young hipsters. And that's like what the Biden team kind of likes to reach out to. So I wouldn't be surprised me if they did some sort of Bitcoin slash crypto outreach. But it seems like Elizabeth Warren's, she's warded off for now, right? So like, do you think she'll be coming up with any more kind of bills in the near future? Or do you think she's been kept at bay by this new bill that's coming to play? Well, I don't want to go too much to the later issue. But what we're seeing now is people are working together to bring opportunity to crypto. And it's right wing people and it's left wing people and they have different views and opinions. But they're generally like, yes, we should allow people to invest in this. People should be trying it, getting exposure to it. Whereas I think Warren would be more against it. Let's stop it. Let's stamp it down. And then we've even seen interest in CBDCs in interest in banning them. The conservative House passed a bill banning them. But as we all know, it doesn't mean anything unless it passes the Senate and the president. It's not going to so the House can pass anything it wants. But it doesn't matter. But at least it makes people feel good. They pass some stuff. And there were democratic votes there as well. Furthering my thesis that the way forward for Bitcoin is both parties left and right together. Different opinions on some things. Agreement on crypto. Not just this guy accepts Bitcoin. So I forget everything he's ever done in his past and everything he stands for. I support him now. He's he's wearing my hat. Right. That's not just a sporting team. But there are people that seem to think it's just a sporting team. But president Trump has frequently talked about the price of Bitcoin. Let's go to the exit question. Last week, I think the ball. It might have been like short term wrong, but long term correct. I think the ball is never wrong, obviously. But in the short term, if you wagered all your money on the ball, you might have been wrong this week. I've seen some major price movements with Ethereum going up 20% Bitcoin up 5% drops, of course, after that. Dan Eve, everyone's looking at you. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Higher. Let's go higher next week. Victoria Jones higher or lower? Lower. Lower. We've got a mixed panel. That's always the best for the ball. The ball will be the decider, the deciding vote. Here we are. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Very doubtful. Very doubtful. The ball is pessimistic. Moving on to issue two. Issue two. Judge has published his ruling in the Copa versus Craig Wright lawsuit that Craig Wright is not Satoshi Nakamoto. As the ruling says from the high court approved judgment, thus Dr. Wright presents himself as an extremely clever person. However in my judgment, he is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is. In both his written evidence and in the days of oral evidence under cross examination, I am entirely satisfied that Dr. Wright lied to the court extensively and repeatedly. Most of his lies were related to the documents he had forged, which purported to support his claim. All of his lies and forged documents were in support of his biggest lie, his claim to be Satoshi Nakamoto. As we have heard in the supportive British accent, Dr. Craig Wright is not Satoshi Nakamoto. Victoria Jones, what do you think about this stunning release from the British court? Craig Wright is not supposed to be Nakamoto. Later parts of the discussion say that he has wasted the court's time, perhaps in a legally binding way where they could come after him for that. It is a crime of sorts to waste the court's time, certainly punishable. And he has done quite a lot of it as it seems. Well, I just find it remarkable that they have taken so long to figure it out. I mean, considering how many court cases he has had against him. And I love that last line. Dr. Craig Wright seems to be uniquely unfortunate individual, considering how many things seem to have gone against him. The victim of a very large number of unfortunate coincidences. He really wasn't very complimentary on his ability to lie. So, yeah, I mean, pretty damning on his character, really, which most of us knew, we were just waiting for the authorities to catch up with the evidence. But it just boggles my mind that it took them so long. That's what I find outrageous about the whole thing. I like that it's authoritative. I like that it's thorough by a grief of joy. It came far too late. The rest of us kind of saw through this guy years ago. Yet the legal systems in multiple countries have allowed him to waste their time, to waste his opponent's time to have the Bitcoin white paper taken down from the Bitcoin webpage. People respect this guy for no good reason. And that respect that kind of, I don't know, we have kind of an openness that allows us to fall prey to these scammers as we've seen in other departments and issues we've talked about. I think we just fell prey to another one here and the court has finally said, hey, wake up, slow down. Definitively, this is not the guy. And especially because, like we said, on the show many times, because of his forgeries. Once you start forging documents to support your case, you'd be like, oh, I created Bitcoin, but then I erased it. I flushed it all down the toilet, whoopsie. Then a few days later, I was like, I need to prove that I created Bitcoin. So you start creating fake emails to prove that you created Bitcoin. You're not helping your story. You're making your story worse. A better story is I created Bitcoin. I flushed it down the toilet. I have no proof because somebody somewhere might have some cool proof that you created Bitcoin. And they would prove your true story. And if they go down the toilet, they'd be like, yeah, we found pieces of paper. It's true. Whereas your false story is always going to lead to more false stories. And you're going to become a forger and a liar. And that seems what Dr. Craig Wright has become. Dan Eave, what do you think about Craig Wright? Suddenly from the court, an accomplished liar, but not Satoshi Nakamoto. Well, yeah, no, it's finally, it's finally here, this judgment from a UK court. I mean, there's been obviously other judgments where they found very, very obvious, obvious fraudulent documentation all over the shot. And he's very, he's not very good at lying. Right? He's when you hear him speak, he kind of sounds kind of quite intelligent, but he really, the court situation, he's not managed to pull himself together. And he's been found out so many times. And the best thing about this is that we've got like the best sleuth on the internet, you know, the best cryptographers in the world who are looking for clues in all the things that he submitted, all the documents he submitted, finding fonts that were weren't around when he was meant to have submitted a specific document, all things like that. And the detail has just been so fine. And the community is the one that really helped destroy Craig Wright, not just the lawyers and the court cases, but the evidence that was brought forward by the community and put forward then by the actual legal team. So maybe he's going to get done for perjury. I think I read that the judge may ask the UK prosecutors to consider perjury because of his statements said in the trial. So, you know, they've said that they was a serious abuse of a court's process, but they said in his judgment. So we're finally getting some action against Craig Wright. And what we really want to see is we want to see, oh, no, I feel really bad, but you know, you want to see him kind of prosecute, right, for the, but, you know, at the end of the day, he's no longer Satoshi. So there's going to be a lot fewer conferences inviting them there. There's going to be a lot fewer people actually believing that he's Satoshi. There's already a number of them that have turned and said, wow, you know, it's completely hoodwinked. I feel like such an idiot now. And so we're going to see more of those as time goes on because there's, it's really hard to stay in that sinking ship right now. You know, the B.S.V. dream is pretty much dead in the water, especially after this court case, let alone, you know, all the other ones that he's failed. So yeah, unfortunately, I think this is it for, unfortunately, this is it for Craig Wright. We will not be talking about him much, much longer in theory. It does seem Dan that the side effects of all these lies is that he wasted people's time. He wasted the courts time. He wasted everyone who had to go track down the evidence is time. That kind of thing. And that's probably what the legal system will attempt anyway to punish him for is that waste of time and that it does affect other people. So it is good to see an end to this story. Let's move on to the exit question. We know now, at least according to the British court, that Satoshi Nakamoto is not a loud mouth australian bragging to everyone how he's the greatest sword fighter and the greatest writer and the greatest bowler and the greatest runner and all these things. But it goes back to who is Satoshi Nakamoto and who could disappear this amazingly and who could stay out of the spotlight. So let's not go with names and who Satoshi really is because we all know that we just don't say. Let's go to what kind of person is Satoshi Nakamoto? Victoria Jones, we know Satoshi Nakamoto has stayed out of the limelight. They haven't spent there in massed fortune of a million bitcoins or whatever it may be. What kind of person does this Bitcoin thing? Someone who's remarkably humble, I would say, and very interested in the future of humanity. That's what I would like to think anyway. I'm very encouraged by the fact that whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is hasn't come forward and is keeping themselves anonymous. But then again, the limelight is always a bit of a poison chalice anyway. If you look at accounts from anyone who's become famous, it's often they're quite a damaged personalities that are looking for that kind of attention. And it doesn't always work out for them. You can get a lot of negative attention from having a very high profile. Look at many of the famous people that we see nowadays. Someone that's smart is probably intelligent enough to keep a low profile and did what he did and then left it to. I suspect it's someone who'd been working in cryptography for quite a long time. But understood where some of the disadvantages were because they'd seen things being pulled down in the past. The moment the government got involved and so they were highly motivated to create something that could be decentralized. And I think a lot of people miss that when they start talking about the fact that, oh, he must be a CIA asset or whatever. I mean, if you actually look back at the history of Bitcoin and how it was developed and some of the early emails, it's quite clear that that wasn't the motivation. So yeah, I think if you understand the history, you understand a bit more about the motivation and apart from anything else that for me personally gives me a lot of confidence in, you know, the route of the technology and what it was originally designed for. I don't think it was designed as a technology for someone to take the credit and just become rich. They really were looking to solve a problem for humanity and I think that's very noble cause. Dan, Eve, what kind of person is Satoshi Nakamoto? Very sensible for dipping out the limelight, right? We've seen anyone who's big in cryptos is got the authorities on them from, you know, obviously there's that there's the Torreino cash guys. There's obviously people using services that are using, you know, privacy-based services that have the law after them. There's the guy and it wasn't the Binance Executive in Nigeria like recently kidnapped, basically like kidnapped maybe a strong word, reprimanded, you know. So like if you're the head of a company in crypto, there's a lot of eyes on you and that's just the head of a company in crypto, let alone the inventor of Bitcoin. So you had to, whoever you are, you had to just disappear off because you're just going to be hounded. If you really believed in your invention like Satoshi did, you could tell by the writings that he knew what was going to happen, like it was going to be huge, like mega huge. But even then you couldn't really contemplate back then how big Bitcoin would be, you know, in the trillions of value, their millions that it was back then. So you had to take a step back, otherwise he's just going to be hounded forever and ever and ever. And also it's bad for Bitcoin, people knowing who invented Bitcoin. It's just this perfect way as a mystery and hopefully we'll never find out. You know, it's been so over 10 years now, surely we've scrapped, you know, the CIA who ever scraped enough hard drives and enough data to try and figure it out and we'd know by now, but it seems like we don't. So hopefully we never do. Well, and how can that be possible just for a second there, Dan? How could there be no evidence? Like you took this data, you took this program, you took all these words, you put them on the internet somewhere, right? There must be a record of it somewhere. And yet with all the resources in the world, they haven't tracked them down yet. And another interesting idea there that Dan brought up that we think we can all think about together is imagine if Satoshi was public. Imagine if Satoshi was public, I can't imagine a larger celebrity. Certainly the president of the United States, other foreign leaders, Taylor Swift, Beyonce, that kind of thing. But imagine Satoshi Nakamoto here, oh, I was at the coffee store and I saw Satoshi. Whoa. And there's a helicopter falling around and he goes to the movie theater and he goes to the meetup or whatever. And he's meeting people and he's talking to them. I can't imagine it. I can't imagine it. I think the people it would be the Beatles, right? It would be David Bowie. It would be out on the street. You'd see Bob Dylan or something. So I do agree with Dan. It was an incredible good decision by whoever Satoshi is or was to not be public and to disappear. I agree with Victorians. It's an incredibly humble and ego smashing decision to not take credit for what could be perhaps the greatest invention in mankind. I would say internet, Bitcoin, television, right up in there, right? These kind of things, things that change the world, whole new media, a whole new medium. And I certainly like the idea of having a Bitcoin, I was having a Satoshi, sorry, of having a Bitcoin creator. But I'm always excited when we had a Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto. There's probably about half a day there where I was like, he's our Satoshi. It's great. He's Japanese and he looks just like the part. And then of course, he comes out on the lawn. He's like, no, I just wanted a free lunch. I'm not involved in this project. No idea what's going on. So that was a fun half a day. And it's also fun, I think, because of the completeness of it where you're like, now we finally know we've unmasked Satoshi. I've been a Bitcoin to X years, you know, and I read all about Bitcoin. Never knew who Satoshi was. Now I know. And that fades after a while. Then a few months later, whatever it was, the Australian guy comes out. And same kind of thing. For a couple of days there, I'm really excited about it. He's an Australian doctor. He's got degrees. He's got a supercomputer. Maybe, maybe it's a cray. Maybe not. And then he turns out not great and does a lot of damage. And he shows us in a reminder of how dangerous a Satoshi can be and how dangerous a false prophet or someone who's claiming to be someone that they're not can be to a community. Even if it's obvious to so many people, so many people just look at the facts, look at the thing and they're like, yeah, that's not the guy. It's not obvious to everybody. And the people it's not obvious to can lose a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of faith where they can't go on and believe in another project because they're so damaged by what happened to them on that project. And as far as what kind of person is a Satoshi, I think now that we've cleared out, it's not a Japanese guy that likes trains. It's not an Australian doctor who seems to tell lies allegedly, of course. I think we have to go back to the saint Satoshi. idea that Satoshi is kind of this patron saint of freedom and the future and doesn't care about money and that Satoshi is a bigger person, man or woman or child or whatever and that we should all aspire to be Satoshi, a space alien, whoever Satoshi or maybe I think we should go back to like the spirit of it, not focus so much on the individual of it because if there's an individual will always be disappointed. In the scenario where Satoshi was public, Satoshi would get drunk at some big club. Satoshi would have an affair with a woman and she'd write a book about it. Satoshi would be political in some way that you don't like and all these things. Whereas this beautiful idea of saint Satoshi, we can project anything on it, libertarian, cypherpunk, monetary value, humanity, whatever you want to say and none of us is right either. None of us is correct like about saint Satoshi and I think that's a fun discussion to keep having in the future and I think we got to move on talking about a lot of big figures today, charismatic figures, this Satoshi guy, this president guy, all this stuff. You can check out other big figures at worldcryptoneatwork.com where we've got 3,734 videos. You could watch them for three months, 19 days and eight hours without a break. It's been 10 years, five months and 14 days since our first video. Moving on to issue three, just be happy that we're using your Bitcoin holiday for our marketing plans. Coinbase celebrated Bitcoin pizza day in New York City, selling slices of pizza for one dollar a piece if you would sign up for their product and use USDC, the Coinbase version of Tether, a USD based stablecoin. Across the street, pubkey, the bar was giving away pizza for free. You didn't even have to give up your social security number or anything like that. Obviously people complained about Coinbase selling pizza with USDC instead of Bitcoin on Bitcoin pizza day. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the latest Coinbase promotion seems like a real winner? Yeah, well, their claim about reduced transaction fees for businesses is an interesting point and it's something that I brought up in one of the talks I was doing last year in New Yorker and also I did that at the Bitcoin Meetup in Surrey because I was highlighting having been a business owner myself. One of the things that motivated me towards Bitcoin was looking for a system that disrupted the hold some of the payment processes have over the payment fees that you actually take into your business because it has a disproportionate effect on your bottom line. The fact that these payment processes, even though it's a small percentage, it comes off the revenue of your business and my dad has a saying which is revenue is vanity, profit is sanity because even if you're taking a lot of money into your business, if your expenses outweigh your income, then you don't have any profit and if a big part of your expense is these payment fees coming off the top, then it makes a disproportionate difference. So for example, when I was working in my dental business, I could take 120 grand a year in fees but my costs would be 100 grand. So it meant that I was only taking 20 grand profit but if I was paying 0.1% of 120 grand, the cost of paying for those transactions was huge in comparison. And so actually this is a big issue for businesses. It's one of the many issues with our financial system and it's not something that I actually hear spoken on very much. I mean a lot of people talk about US debt and how it might be going into hyperinflation but the fact that every business that uses a payment processor has this issue, it has a huge effect on the way in which our economy works and how well businesses can deliver their services to us, especially when it comes to independent businesses as well that don't have the advantages of corporate structures and can negotiate discounts to these kinds of things. So they're certainly highlighting an interesting issue and one of the things I was pointing out in the talks I did last year is that I think this is one of the ways in which governments could actually leverage their argument for CBDCs. The transaction fees from payment processors is definitely a way in which they can kind of take away one of the arguments for Bitcoin. Certainly what got me interested in Bitcoin in the first place is one of the arguments that they could actually leverage to try and hijack us into a CBDC. So it's a nuanced argument but one that it's definitely worth paying attention to and interesting that Coinbase should use it on our pizza day. How very dare they. It does sound very nuanced and perhaps nuanced far too much nuanced for a marketing message. I do agree with Victoria the credit card fees are crazy on the businesses. We used to talk about this a lot back in the day when Bitcoin was more of a means of payment and that was something we were really focusing on. You'll see this a lot of businesses. They'll have a cash only sign or they'll have even a discount for cash as we see sometimes at gas stations and as you all know gas stations should accept Bitcoin. So USD might be good or USDC might be good for that and it's a nice nice thing to highlight but of course for me I can't get past the irony of Coinbase's marketing department and how they make their decisions. Fortunately I have a cartoon drawing of what actually happened inside the Coinbase marketing department as it says here. All right everyone how should we celebrate Bitcoin pizza day. Pizza food truck in New York City. Let's only accept USDC. Why don't we also accept Bitcoin over the Lightning Network and then they throw them out the window. But it just does seem so funny that it's such an obvious Bitcoin holiday Bitcoin pizza day. They just start accepting Lightning Network after all the war and everything that happens and it comes a great time where they could bring the Lightning Network and the pizza together. They could still do the thing where they get the signups. I get that not anti marketing here like Bill Hicks but they could get the signups. They could get the dollars. They could have done an on Lightning Network. They could have pissed off no one. Instead they were like ah those Bitcoin people they don't really matter. Go ahead and piss them off. Who cares how ridiculous it looks that we're doing USDC pizza on Bitcoin pizza day. Like forget about the ridiculousness of our marketing. What again I just don't get it. They probably got a lot of sweet money for using USDC though. They probably get a penny on each deal and it's super sweet. Dan Eve what do you think about Coinbase and they're incredibly interesting marketing department that continues to hate Bitcoin as they have since they stopped paying the San Francisco Bitcoin meetup are measly few hundred dollars a month. It's strange because they could have at least added Lightning as an option. They could have made it the Lightning is the main piece in Lightning or you could use USDC or even the other way around but just not to offer it at all. Unfortunately this when a lot of people have been saying that Bitcoin is not the thing to be using as money. It's a store of value so you can't use it to buy a coffee or buy a pizza. On the same side of the maximum in a argument that it should be used as money. They're saying don't use it as money because it's not used to buy coffees and pizzas and silly things like that but they should have literally just offered it in Lightning. It probably wouldn't have really helped them a huge amount of extra effort but let's face it unfortunately there's a lot more USDC users probably than there is Lightning. From a business perspective for them they've got to go where the numbers are. Lightning is a great invention but it doesn't have the same user base kind of USDC and until it does it's not going to be the pick, the prime pick. It's really silly to promote Bitcoin pizza today using a stable coin on Ethereum and other networks. Maybe they use other networks. They could have at least used Lightning as well but Bitcoin is a store of value. That's the latest source. That's the part I like there. If you were in the meeting and the meeting was like how are we going to celebrate Bitcoin pizza today? We're going to use a stable coin based on Ethereum and the rest of the meeting was like let's go with it. It makes sense to us. Lean into the market and get the goodwill from the Bitcoiners. Maybe they're not very big and again God forbid makes some more Bitcoiners. Coinbase converts someone to Bitcoin makes a thousand dollars a year profit off of selling them Bitcoin. That's so bad. We have to direct them to our own coin. We have to direct them our own coin first above Bitcoin because we make slightly more money on our own coin. Is that really the deal? Obviously obviously. No there's no. They're not even arguing back. But no that's it. Enough of coinbase marketing. It was fun to mention them. Everyone else I hope they enjoyed their pizza day with the normal celebration of buying pizza. Yeah that's really easy. Let's move on to issue four. Ethereum ETFs approved in abrupt SEC policy about face. Spot Ethereum ETFs will be traded in the United States just months after spot Bitcoin ETFs receive their own approval from the SEC. This is no surprise to anyone who watches this show. We've said it for years perhaps even decades after the Bitcoin ETF gets approved. The Ethereum ETF will be approved and now here it is with an incredible amount of front trading. People knew about this everywhere and they bought Ethereum. The price with Ethereum went up about 20% before the announcement after the announcement and only went up 2%. That lets you know that you didn't know about the Ethereum ETF announcement. But other people did. The only real question now is who's next. How many of these ETFs are we going to get? Let's go to Dan Eve. What do you think about the Ethereum ETF announcement? Again, Gensler against this. Gensler fought it but it doesn't matter. The larger SEC made their decision. If we're going to allow one, we're going to allow the other and then the question is how far does that go? Yeah, the Trojan horse is in right. So Bitcoin was the foot through the door. Now we've got Ethereum. They're talking already about a Salaana one right. There's going to be a Salaana one. There's going to be a Dogecoin ETF at some point. There has to be, you know, it's just the way things are going to go. Whether you like it or not, whether it's ludicrous and crazy or not, it's 2024. We've seen some. So it's been one hell of a decade put it that way. So we're going to have, we're going to have memecoin ETFs by the end of the decade, possibly even by the end of 2025. It's going to be crazy. It's going to be insane. It's going to be, yeah, it's going to be, life is becoming a crypto meme. That's for sure. Traditional financial people, Dan, are rolling over in their graves. Tragedy. Tragedy. The horrible part here. I can already picture the commercials. It's the same kind of TD Fidelity ad with the way. Are you thinking about investing in something fun and dog runs by and the sun setting and it's green grass as I invest in Dogecoin and as a logo and as a Dogecoin funding the future. I can't imagine. I hope I don't know how to get in touch with Jackson Palmer anymore. It's been a long time since I've seen him, but I'd love to interview him. If there's a Dogecoin ETF, I imagine he would be, he would be probably thrashed. He would be completely drunk all the time and angry like this guy who hates Bitcoin makes a copy of it with a dog coin on it. It goes crazy. He tells people don't buy it. Don't use it. Goes on the daily show, fights against it. People keep buying it. People keep using it. They keep getting more interested in Dogecoin and then Jackson, the creator just hates it. So yeah, Dogecoin ETF. It kind of matters. Just in sorry. Well, this was in yesterday, it was 13 hours ago, but it looks a bit. All this morning, actually, sorry, Kobosu, the dog from Dogecoin, me actually and Shiburinu has passed away. That was the last 24 hours. So Max and respect. It's very sad. The loss of the Doge. I kind of should have, that's all I was how it is. They had that Dogecoin statue and I could have gone to Japan. I might have met. I might have met the whole GTI. I told you. I know. That's always the way. But yeah, shout out to the dog and what a influencer. What a what a cute dog. I think that's the greatest thing that you could be as a dog is a global worldwide cute dog. But let's go to Victoria, Jones. What do you think? Ethereum is getting an ETF. We're already way into Dogecoin ETF. Any other ETFs you have your eye on and what do you think about the US government changing its mind? Oh, I just see this is going to be a tradfied ICO bubble, isn't it? We've seen this all before. We know how this plays out. They're all going to jump on some memecoin bandwagon and then eventually it'll be back at Bitcoin again. It's just a learning curve that you have to play out. But of course, now the stakes are higher. It's all part of the process that's just going to completely disrupt the whole system. It's just a learning curve. People have to go through to figure out what works and what doesn't. Most of the lessons, most of us have been through already. It's like being an older person, trying to tell a young person. It's not a good idea. I really wouldn't do that. Are they going to listen to you? No. They have to figure it out for themselves. Watch and learn. And if the Bitcoin price dives by some more. It does seem like the casino is lining up to print some more chips and that they were being very conservative. We could only print Bitcoin chips. Oh, now we'll print Ethereum chips and like Dan sang next month, next year, three years, hundreds of garbage coin ICOs all on ETFs, not ICOs, sorry, but same different, same thing and same hysteria. So could be fun. We'll have to see how it goes. Moving on to the next issue, he trained cops to fight crypto crime and allegedly ran a hundred million dollar dark net drug the stain strange story of Lin Rousang, the 23 year old accused of running the incognito black market, extorting his own sites users and then refashioning himself as a legit crypto crime expert. I can't wait until this is a movie. This is the story that has everything. It seems like he designed the dark net market site in the way to damage his users the most way possible, not only stealing their money, also stealing their information, blackmailing them using it against them, chasing them down. Meanwhile, at the same time, he's making presentations to the police. This is how you cratch Bitcoin criminals. This is how you track things on the blockchain. He even seems to make kind of his own version of chain analysis, a tracking website so he can track down these criminals of which according to the article, he seems to be a hundred million dollar dark net web drug market runner. So a story with everything I never heard of the incognito black market before, but I've heard of it now and I look forward to seeing the movie again, maybe good title incognito. Oh, Victoria Jones, what do you think about the IT guy everywhere? Every IT guy now you have to assume secretly running dark net drug markets and giving presentations to the police. I have to say I see some of these stories and I'm just, it boggles my mind that there are people in the world with so little morals. Really? I mean, how do you do that? You know, there are just some things that would just never enter some people's heads and then there are other people who will literally take how dark can you get and take it to an extreme. I mean, you know, not only running a black market, black market website, but what really got me was that when the whole thing went down, he was then bribing his users saying that, you know, he wanted, what was it, $20,000 or he was going to release all of their transaction tickets to the police. It's just like, oh my god, it's just well, he's on the web, you know, you do that to the mafia and then, you know, you'd have a horse heading your bed the next morning. So, yeah, I mean, this is, and of course, you know, this is the thing with the internet, you can kind of be pseudo-anonymous. You don't necessarily get the feedback like you would in person, you know, you kind of, you'd explain that story to someone in person, you just see from the way in which their eyes were kind of widening as you said it. That was probably a bad idea, but it's like because they're on the other side of a computer screen, it's like they can invent any crazy idea and think that they're going to get away with it and there will be no consequences. Yeah, unbelievable. But of course, the benefit of all of this is that it's, you know, some of these really stupid people are just highlighting all of the ways in which the system can be hacked. So, hopefully some clever, more moral people who understand that it's probably not in the interests of them long term to try and get away with stuff like this that, you know, maybe some of these loopholes can be covered before it becomes a system that we're relying on. So, that's the only good thing to come to the story, I think. You know, in Buddhism, we talk about karma and doing good things and the relationship to others. And like you're saying, Victoria, it seems like this guy worked at the exact backwards point of karma, where he's like, what's the exact worst thing I could do to anyone and using that anonymous online identity thing because you're right, if he was a drug dealer out in the street and he's like, well, I've been dealing to these people and now I'm going to publish it, you know, in the newspaper and I'm going to, you know, blackmail them. The guy would be beaten to death in minutes, right? Somebody somewhere you say, oh, if he's worked blackmailing, he's worth hiring someone to take care of you. And this guy used the online to get away with that and to cover that up. And it's also an interesting idea to think about where there's this idea in the legal theory where it's the crack house defense where, you know, Ross Ulbrich allegedly built the Silk Road website and designed it to sell drugs. Craigslist is designed to sell your random stuff, but if you made a Craigslist for drugs, you would've designed it for drugs. What I think this guy made is kind of this crack house trap where everyone who comes into it to then buy the drugs, he then blackmail's. He efficiently blackmail's. He steals all their funds. Then he blackmail's them. It's a, it's like a much worse thing to make. At least the other guys were just trying to make profit on the sales or something. This guy from the beginning, his customers came in. He was using and abusing them in a unique way. And in a similar way, he was using and abusing the police, breaking their trust, claiming to be an expert, secretly doing all these things. Just what a bizarre story. And we're just touching the surface of it here with this article. Obviously, we don't know anything. We just read the article. But what a movie. What, what an idea this will be. Dan Eve, what do you think about the nerdy computer guy who secretly blackmailing every single drug user on his website and works for the police? That's great. Yeah. I know. I know a few people that used it who were like, oh, it shut down. And they didn't know why. And then I sort of looked at, I was like, every look on Twitter. And yeah. And I think it was James and Lott that tweeted about it. And I think he, so he released like the endless troll. So after keeping everyone's money, informs them that he's keeping all their money puts like a note on the website with a, with a red and green status. And they use a name. So it's literally got everyone's username. They all started off red. And if you pay him the $5,000 in Monero, your username goes green. And you don't get your information sent to the police. So there was this massive board of people slowly going, paying their $5,000. That's actually that's a game show. That's a money Python game show. Blackmail, they had a little bit. And here he comes, Mr. Jones, we're going to show the footage. Oh, no, Willie call in time. Oh, no. So it's it's CD, but you know, this is what you've got to be careful of using a dark site, a dark map site. There's, there's going to be some messed up stuff potentially happening. And the worst thing that, you know, there as a user, I'm not sure if people were with that implicated, I think he threatened to sell the details, but I'm not sure if he got to that stage. The last I saw of it was just extorting the, the sellers out of their $5,000. The bias, I mean, what, what, I'm not sure what what local laws are like, but I mean, so if the police find that you're buying something, I'm not sure what the law is around that like, you know, if, because usually by, they don't go after the bias, right, they go after the dealers. So it's only demands depends how bad the thing you're buying is if you're buying a, I'd read girl, that's pretty freaking bad. That's how yeah, yeah. To kind of drugs or some kind of weapons or whatever you have no idea, this isn't always thinking of something. It isn't one of those old fashioned dread pirate Roberts, raw milk websites, where they had limits on stuff. This is one of those open websites where you could buy anything. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I imagine. And that sounds, that sounds terrible. Well, obviously, you can say that, but probably it was otherwise. So beware, boys, unfortunately, the covers are going to be out of view as well. And again, think about those are the buyers that you're going to blackmail. You're like, those guys who are on my website buying anything, those are the ones I'm going to blackmail, not like some nerdy guy you're selling porn or something. It's a bunch of losers. No, I'm selling, you know, weapons and children and I'm going to blackmail those guys. Cards. There's probably like cards and stuff, cookbooks and all those sorts of random things, right? Yeah. Yeah. In fact, the buyers beware as well. So yeah, if you're getting used to dark market, well, don't be very, very careful. More of the story is don't use dark market or shoot yourself every day because you might be exalted. I certainly don't leave your funds on there. This is another one of those sheet marketplace stories where they're like, the service was really great. And then one weekend, they shut down and ran off with all our funds. I contacted customer support several times. No one sent me anything back. Like this happens time and time again. And, you know, maybe it'll happen with a large exchange someday of people leaving their money on there. We talk many times creating your own wallet, having a treasurer, a ledger or something like that, having a way to hold your own keys and how this is different than having coin base or someone like that hold your own keys. But imagine those who said, yeah, incognito market. That's who I trust to hold my own keys. Savage. Well, maybe this is this is another opportunity for the bet the service bed that was talking about for a long while where you can have like a you can use Noster to have a portable reputation. So if this if incognito shuts down, you can go into the next dark market, whatever that is and have all the reputation that you had from being a reputable seller on the previous dark market. So yeah, I think there's there's more opportunity for that now on Noster. That is true down the real loss here as as with the Silk Road is the loss of these reputation systems there. Like little mini mini e-bays. Now, maybe e-bays for, you know, drug sellers or cannabis sellers or what have you, but still valuable mini e-bays. Let's move on to the exit questions. I noticed in the headline that this guy is only 23 years old. What happened to this guy to make him this way? Did his girlfriend break up with him? Did he live a life where he's very poor and he needed more money? Just speculate. Obviously, we don't know this guy. This is all allegedly speculation. But Victoria Jones, what do you think happened to this guy where sure he's he's creating a drug website? Sure, he's working for the police. But then he decides to rip off all the users on his drug website, then to blackmail them and all of this. It just seems like a lot of dark decisions altogether. Yeah, well, if he's 23, he was probably born around the year 2000. So, you know, his parents may not have a strong moral character in order to give him strong guidelines when he's growing up. Unfortunately, these days you do get parents who are quite neglectful, not paying attention, not having had much moral guidance themselves. And this is the kind of thing that works in a downward spiral. I mean, it doesn't always work out. I mean, some people are just seem to be naturally moral. But then other people just seem to be naturally not. And it's at some point, it's like your own persona has to make a choice what kind of person you're going to be. And he clearly chose the darker route with no strong guidance of another alternative. And very unfortunate, really, it's hard to learn those lessons the hard way. It does seem with other cases like dread pirate Roberts allegedly, according to the public story that it was a downward spiral where first he's selling drugs and raw milk. Then people are threatening his large enterprise selling drugs and raw milk. And he allegedly has hits made on them. Similarly with this guy, you know, he's doing the police speeches. He's doing the website. And a certain point he decides to close down the website, rob the people and then blackmail the people. They do say, I don't know the details, but it sounds like the website might have been designed with this blackmail element involved from the beginning and with the seizing funds element involved from the beginning, maybe even having a shutdown button. So everyone should keep that in mind. You never know the marketplace you're using. They hit a certain number and they're like, well, we've got 25 million in deposits, push the shutdown button. And as fast as you are as quick as you are, you read the news all the time, you'd never lose your funds in some kind of disaster like that. They plan to leave when they hit their point. And it seems like this guy had a plan to leave beforehand. That's why I find so creepy. He's not, he's not just trying to be a marketer selling drugs. He's trying to rip off people across the board everywhere we look here and providing probably bad speeches to the police. Who knows? Maybe he had good evidence there. You certainly experienced Dan Eve. What do you think? What kind of person is this very interesting drug lord character? Oh, he's the sort of guy that you like burn ants right? He would get people get pleasure out of causing people pain. So I can imagine just, you know, I mean, he could be the sort of guy that got himself into gambling debt or something crazy like that loan sharks or something and you know, he really needed the money. But I think you're right. It sounds like he designed to with all of this with the with the intent ahead of time, right? It seems a bit kind of pre calculated. And maybe his helping of the police was a was a way out, right? He can say, well, this was all planned from the beginning because I wanted to catch all these people in the act of doing this nasty thing of buying these bad drugs or buying these bad services and fraudulent cards. So he can turn around and extort all these people. He can probably stash away a bunch of Bitcoin in the meantime and then try and get a reduced sentence by helping the police. So yeah, I think he's a I think he's an ant burning shit bag. Dan going all in. We're going to put allegedly on the end of that. And again, this is all. Absolutely. No one no one knows this guy. We've never met this guy and so on and so forth. But it is a very interesting story. We'll have to keep an eye on it, especially keep an eye on the movie. Who's going to play him in the film? So let's move on to predictions or story of the week. I just want to give a big shout out to the brand new documentary about BTC pay server. It's called My Trust in You is Broken. It was recently released at the Bitcoin War Saw film festival. They had a major premiere in pub key, the bar in New York City. And now you can watch it yourself on YouTube. It's a great documentary. It's only about 42 minutes. Features several things from the world crypto network, which is very cool. I do a voice introduction around five minutes in. It's pretty cool. I think they don't put the name on there. You're just supposed to know that that's the voice of mad Bitcoin's everyone knows that. And Dan is in there interviewing Eski. You can see Dan. I think Ben's in there somewhere. And then we have another interview with Max Hilla Brand and myself and the BTC pay server guys that we shot in the lightning conference in Berlin. So it's very cool to see all this stuff. You also see a lot of classic old Bitcoin interview footage that I remember watching from the day money and tech old interviews with BTC pay. And of course the classic dispute about a segwit and segwit 2x involving BTC pay. So be sure to check it out on YouTube for free. My trust in you is broken. The new documentary by BTC pay and spread the word. It's not doesn't have a lot of views, but it's great and it's free. So send out a link to that. Tell your people to watch it. Dan, Eve prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. I don't have any prediction or story of the week. So I'm just going to go with well, New York blockchain days is coming out. Right. So we're going to a bunch of us going to be there. Victoria, you're going right. Yeah. Tom Thomas is going. Josh is going. I'll be giving a speech. Nice. Yeah. Hopefully my we're still trying to get my team out there. I think it's it's unhopeful, but maybe. But yeah, a bunch of other people say, yes, try and get try and get there for me. You're going to block chain days. I'm not sure what what what do you know what the dates is in the middle of July. It's about the second week of July. Well, 11 12 to this 13 or something 12 11 11 to 14. Yeah, because it's quite a long one, isn't it? Because there's like a bits before and bits after. Yeah, so get yourself to me or go for 11 to 14 to July. Great conference. Absolutely. Love it. Real good conference. That'd be great. Good shout out Dan. Love to see everybody there. And especially if you're in the audience, come hang out with us. A mayor could conference. Not that big. Still has room for you. So join us. Victoria Jones, a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. Yeah, well, my story of the week is my latest news letter is up on my website. So she's page.com talking about Bitcoin and inflation. And I go into what happened with metal currency because there's a lot of debate about Bitcoin compared to gold and silver. And you can you got a good breakdown there of what the problems are with the metallic currencies based on our history. So that's worth checking out with some great pictures from the 1700s as well. So go and check that out on my latest news page. Very cool. Check that out Victoria. It's a Toshis page. And I don't have that much this week. Obviously I'm focused on the documentary. Check out my trust in you is broken by spent this morning watching a great old interview that they did on stacks Bitcoin something like that. And it was with my friend Travis who found co founded Curio cards with us. And it was great to see in one of the things they talked about in this interview is how Travis and I met at the Bitcoin meetup and how influential and important it was as it turns out in hindsight for everyone to go to this little local meetup where we drank beer and talked about Bitcoin. And through this meetup I met Travis. I met Rhett. I met all the people that helped me make this company. And a lot of other people met their other co founders and they got where they were going because they went out and met people. So I just want to celebrate Bitcoin meetups and maybe not Bitcoin. Whatever else you're into, you know, go to lacrosse meetups, go to sport meetups. I think the idea of meeting up with people especially here on the other side of COVID everybody's gotten really good at staying home, which has always been one of my greatest skills. But now the rest if you have it too. And maybe we need to break that off and go to more meetups and get out and about more as we enter into this post virus period. So that's about it. Just think about meetups. If you made it to the end of the show, which I'd be shocked, be sure to give us a wave or hello down below. Join the WCN Surface Club by doing that and help YouTube know this is an important video because it has a bunch of comments on it. That's really good for the for the algorithm. Right. So don't tell anyone we know about the algorithm. But that's about it for today. So until next time. Bye. Bye.