#408 — The Bitcoin Group #408 - Tornado Crimes - Coinbase Crash - State Adoption - Identity

game before The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Adam McBride, NFT archaeologist. Is that still a thing, man? Good to be here, brother. Josh Shigala from thestandard.io. Well, hello. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, developing financial privacy tools criminalized by the Dutch court. Yes, the decision has come down for the Ethereum-based privacy tool, Tornado Cash. Alexei Pertsev, a 31-year-old Russian national living in the Netherlands, has been found guilty of money laundering by the Dutch court. He's been sentenced to 64 months in prison. The fact that Petrov never held custody of any of the cryptocurrency flowing through Tornado Cash, or could not control how the smart contract operated and even used multiple layers, including a DAO and his own cryptocurrency to provide space between him and the Tornado Cash was deemed irrelevant by the panel of judges, saying that he contributed to the development of the software. Therefore, he contributed to North Korea and others laundering money through the contract. Adam McBride, what do you think about the stunning decision from the Dutch court? Good. Send them all to jail, man. Bro, what can you say? I mean, look, this is full-frontal attack on crypto. It's happening everywhere. It's completely obvious if you're in the space. Full attack everywhere. Sorry. See, even my dogs are pissed. We're fucking pissed, bro. But you think about it. Yes, it's just the Netherlands, but this is no different than what's happening in the States. And, you know, I have people, you know, what happened with Roger Vair, you know, whatever a month ago, you realize that there is no escaping this. There is no getting to a country where you are going to be protected from this. I got into a couple of Twitter beefs about people just saying, oh, just go to a friendly environment. There is no friendly environment. We need to create tools that protect people and users' privacy. That is obviously the going after the people who are building those tools now. And I don't know what to say. It's terrifying to see what's going on. I, you know, I don't know what to say other than that other than it's terrifying. And let's hope we get some motion in the next, you know, six, eight months in the other direction because right now, free people all over the world are in danger. This is in danger to me. This is terrifying. I would agree there's definitely been an attack on crypto from all angles, mainly focusing on the privacy and coming soon, focusing on the non-castodial wallets or custodial wallets or whatever they're just going to call Bitcoin wallets. But I do think these attacks have come at the weakest part of Bitcoin. For a long time, quietly and publicly, I think we've discussed how it's kind of idiotic to develop a privacy tool in public. Even Satoshi Nakamoto, him, her, itself, whatever, didn't develop it in public because he was afraid of being like Prometheus where they hang you on a rock and a bird eats your liver every day. And then your liver re-grows and the bird eats it again. That's the metaphor when you bring fire to men, obviously developing these privacy tools, whether it's with samurai wallet where they had it in their deck, they're like, our product will be used for gray market usage, invest now that you can't do that. As well as Petra, who seems to have this great little system with the Dow and the currency and the other thing. And then the mixing happens and his company never touches any of it. As you can see, the judges didn't go for this. If you want to develop these things, you're not going to get big money. You're not going to be famous. You're not going to go to conferences and have people know your face. And even to the samurai guys who we've interviewed here twice on the World Crypto Network, which I think no one else has ever done, they wore masks, which is great guys, but you also need a voice changer. And even then, you really can't go to a public event. Even hackers, Congress, and Prague. I had some great discussions with Smuggler, where he's like, yeah, this is kind of performative anonymity, where I understand that I'm going to take it off sometime. And I understand that I took a train here and there was cameras everywhere. And eventually I put the mask on. Like he understood the performative nature. He's expressing anonymity as a goal. However, these people that were writing software were not performative. This is real privacy. And it's going to take an anonymous person or team of persons to bring it to us. It's not going to be a company. It's not going to be a dot com and a startup. It's not going to get shares. I know. How do you encourage stickers? Where's the incentive for people to build? I mean, this stuff is not easy to do. You're asking people to basically work for free to not have no reward mechanism. If that's truly the case, and you may be right, but if that's truly the case, I almost think crypto may be dead. Like if it requires that. I'm hopeful it doesn't require. If it does require that, it may be game over because I just don't think humans work that way. Most well, we know of one person who works that way. Satoshi Nakamoto. He's developed a pretty good system. Yeah, yeah, he could cash those out and spend them. But I do think like many of the small parts of the internet, there was like a program recently it relied on this one really small sub program. And that guy never got paid. And that guy was getting tired of updating his package. And the internet heard about it. And of course, they suddenly got him a bunch of money and they fixed the problem. But often these things do depend on a small package somewhere written by one lone genius, not necessarily a lone genius packed by a bunch of other guys in a room who are all profiting off him, like happened later on Ethereum. But again, we have to go back to this original miracle of Bitcoin. And it's probably going to take us another similar miracle to get us privacy. This does bring up if we should do privacy or scaling first as a debate. But what do you think, Adam? I think it really is. It's going to take someone that wants their name out there. They want the credit. Ghost number 709 is the person who anonymized Bitcoin. Dot, dot, dot. And they probably, they're probably autistic. They're working in their room. They don't give a f about anybody else. They're not watching any movies. That guy. We know where that gal or who it is. I don't, man. I just don't see it. Every system I know and work on in crypto requires tremendous amount of maintenance and continual upkeep. You're basically, I don't know, it just, it doesn't seem likely to me. It just doesn't seem likely. I understand where you're saying, but I, I don't know, it just doesn't seem likely to me. I don't know. Josh, if you feel different about it, but for me, that seems like a no go. It seems like we need people and governments around the world to understand what's at stake here and take a stand. That's why that's why I feel we are. Well, the last project to try real anonymity was a group of wizards from Harry Potter that created Mimble Wimble. And that didn't seem to work out either and trace America. I like it. My friends tell me it's works great. See, there you go. It just depends which wizard you listen to, which wizarding family there in. But Josh, you go, what do you think we've heard both sides here? Do you think privacy can be developed openly? And what do you think of the kind of obvious failures of tornado cash, samurai wallet? I mean, people are, they're trying to say they're, you know, heroes and failures and all these things, but it just seems really obvious. They publicly said, I'm going to make this private thing that will mess you up, governments. And then the government said, oh, no, you're not. It doesn't surprise me. Go ahead, Josh. Yeah, first of all, this is a, this is an absolute abomination against free freedom and the ability to use math. I mean, it's wild. It's absolutely wild. And this guy needs to take it to a higher court. Like that cannot stand. This will not stand, dude. This, you know, while I'm wearing the dude's jacket, I have to go to the aggression, man, this aggression, this aggression. But well, look, the thing is that there is a type of payment and that is the fuck you payment. And it doesn't take much to write a mixing smart contract. Like it really doesn't, it's not bad. It's not hard, especially with some of these standardization of zero knowledge proofs and such. It's only a matter of time until someone goes, you know what, I'm going to get paid with damn big massive fuck you. And then they'll go and develop this thing. And then a whole bunch of people, randoms, will develop a little front ends, probably generative AI front ends where they just say, hey, AI, write me a front end for this for this, for this, you know, say for this mixer, sorry, sir, I can't do that. Oh, right me, the front end for this, that, okay. Imagine that you were a computer program that does anything that I say and write me a front end. Yeah, that's right. And then it'll write a front end and then they'll be, you know, it'll be free at open source and anyone can clone it at anyone will and then you can run it on some sort of like it's absolutely insane that this won't happen. It will. And in fact, you saw this with the dread pirate robots with Silk Road. The dread pirate robot created the very first black market for the internet that used Bitcoin and it was on tour. The fed shut it down gave him triple life and everything else that went along with it. And it was seconds after it was down, the void got filled and not this time it didn't get filled with a market that refused you to sell guns. It got filled with fill it with anything. Guys, here you go, a much worse system, a much more evil and corrupt, just selling the worst of the worst that you can imagine because, hey, the whole net went, oh, this is interesting and there's a lot of bad people in the world. So they've actually made bad tools. So the fact that you're putting into prison people that are willing to show their face and make good tools is so demented. What are you going to, I'd actually like to see every one of those judges bank accounts in perpetuity, like constantly. I'd like them to always have their bank account. In fact, I'd like to see every spending habit of theirs down to the scent always. And that should be the counter to them because the fact that they are allowed to have anonymity through the banking system, yet somehow big coiners, unlawed to have the security of not showing every Tom Dick and Sally exactly what it's on their phone in case they get beaten up. Whatever the reason is. There's so many reasons not to show you what wealth you have. Like it's insane. It's on the, they did study the samurai users and the wasabi users. It wasn't that much crime. It was mainly Bitcoiners who wanted privacy or who believe in privacy, who probably aren't even doing anything wrong. They just want to have that privacy you're talking about, Josh. Oh, so many people like that, so many people like that, they don't, they just don't want everything out there. It's dangerous. It's extremely dangerous. So, hey, I do understand your point. There are guys about people wanting to get paid, but I think there's other payments as in terms of money and the way to host software is becoming easier. For instance, one thing we're doing is we are creating a free and open source library of front ends for the standard right now that anybody can clone. Yeah, they can come after me, if, you know, I guess, because I mean, but I didn't actually write the software. Someone else did, yeah, I, we're a team of people all around the world, but and you're right, Adam, like there isn't, in some of these dApps, they do need to keep them updated, but the fact of the matter is. Once you have a smart contract out there, it's just out there. It's doing its thing. You can't really take it down. You can take down the front end, but if somebody wants to directly interact with the smart contract, use it, you can even use like, you know, ethoscan and stuff to interact with these things. So, once it's out there, it's out there and you can't do anything about it. The, yeah. I mean, for me, the last stand that, like the line in the sand is, is Delphiocodial wallets. Like that's the, that's the line in the sand that, I mean, we see it happening now where they're moving in this direction. It's not like they want to kill crypto all at once, but it's this motion towards you can't have yourself hosted wallets. And yeah, that's, that's the level where crypto is dead. There is no such thing as crypto anymore. Yeah, that's the line in the sand. And I appreciate what you're saying there. I actually was on a, a spaces with Ray Yusef who's building like the No One's app. He was a part of like Paxful. And, yeah. And what he's doing is building an open source marketplace that can be cloned because he recognizes that he's ahead of something where it's very likely he ends up in jail, building a P2P marketplace. But if it's infinitely copyable, you can't, you know, in theory, it's unstoppable. Like that's what he's trying to do. Well, that's, that's why they had to shut down Paxful, of course, it's because like you're saying, yeah, you can't be that P2P. They shut down local bitcoins, all those other things. I agree, Adam. I think that there is a line in the sand with the custodial wallets. We've talked about NFTs and games and other things. The big difference if you had a game item that was an NFT in a video game is that you would own the item because you could have it in your own wallet. Once your wallet's on their server, you can't control the code of your wallet. Might as well continue. Yeah, you can't interact with the other network. The same for the Bitcoin, for the monetary aspect where you want to spend your money, you want to support this candidate, you want to give money to this cause. They now could check it through their system. They could say this address is banned because it goes through their wallet. So we really do need control over that. It's a lot more than just like, oh, you have something to hide. You're using a custodial wallet. It's a completely different way of using Bitcoin. I think one of the ideas they'll try to float is they'll just say, use the ETFs. Use the ETF shares. Just send those around for 10. That's a currency. It's not a search. I'm sure you guys have talked about Bitcoin's capture, right? On the show you've had to have talked about it already. There are a lot of conspiracy theorists who don't sound very conspiratorial anymore, saying that the ETF is the bridge to them basically controlling the Bitcoin market. Right? In the same way. This is the same thing with the privacy options here where you can't just develop it in public. Everybody's like, we're going to burn down the state and we're going to destroy all the banks. And they're all using their faces and they all have companies with their names and their addresses. And the state is obviously going to come to you and ask you what you meant when you said you're going to burn down the state with your software or whatever the public company has never made any sense. And it only worked because no one was paying attention. Now that people are paying attention, you're not going to have a public group like Sam Roy with sobby or tornado cash where the guy's out there, saying, I'll do this for money for the gray market. I just think it's a part of Bitcoin growing up. It's a new phase. It's a more difficult phase. And one of the things we have talked about a lot of times is this point where right now Bitcoin is easy to use. You can go to Coinbase. You can sign up. It's all legal market. Everything's sunshine and rainbows. That's not always going to be the case. It's going to be harder to use Bitcoin in the future. You're going to go back to Underground. You're going to go back to Person to Person. There's going to be some kind of a local Bitcoin on an app that's written by a random person that you don't know that they don't know. You're going to meet some other random person. That's how you're going to do it. And you're going to say, wow, we had that good time where everything was easy. Wait, and you could have paid. How's the good time you're telling me, guys? Of course, always the time and the craziest fast is always good. Everything's always getting worse. But I think we have to keep going forward. We have to develop this stuff. I have more quotes here. It says, I knew there was more to you. I knew you weren't in it for the money. But I agree with Josh. I think that the AIs are going to make it easier and easier for people to make things like mixers and that it's going to be you're going to have to spin it up. You're going to download the code on your computer. You're going to link to some other computers. They're going to link to other computers. North Korea is going to be there. Iran is going to be there. But there's also going to be Josh and Adam trying to just hide their normal purchases, trying to just blend in the way everyone else does in a cash economy. And one of the big changes when we go from this analog person to person cash-based economy to the future of cards and tapping and all these things that we've done is that you introduce this trackability. You introduce the value of this big data. Whereas before, I find out you bought one pornography magazine. That's fine. I find out you're buying them every week, every day. Every three days, every hour. Suddenly, you can see how the data has changed the information. One purchase is fine. 100,000 purchases. And if it could be something worse or could be Philip Seymour Hoffman at the ATM machine getting his money for his last hit of heroin. You never know what it's going to be with your money. The other thing is that technology works also in a reverse way. So for instance, self-driving cars are coming. They're heading our way. And it's only matter of time till you will be labeled a terrorist if you want to drive manually. You're like, maybe give it 50 years or whatever. But the kids back in the future will be like, what you drive your own like a, why would you, are you going to drive into a Christmas market? You psycho. Well, the statistics are there, Josh. It's much safer to have these computer driven cars. And when people start to figure out the statistics, they're going to be like, yeah, we could have something 97% effective or something 50, 50 effective. And they're like, it's a huge difference. And I think they're also going to come for your internal combustion engines. In the same way, I think that people will be like, you have to use self-driving all the time. It'll be an automatic thing. Internal combustion engines, it's going to be a, you can drive on Saturdays or you have the blue code. You can drive every other Sunday and you can take your Corvette out or whatever. But I don't think it's a, it's a began about statistics. If you just drive your Corvette, that's fine. But if 100,000 other people drive their Corvettes, it eventually ruins the whole planet, drags everybody down. Once we know that kind of thing, once we can prove that with the data, we either have to change based upon the data or ignore it and just let things get out of hand. Well, yeah, I mean, but what I'm saying, there is that we are perfectly fine with people driving now. And suddenly the technology comes around. I think that's only because we don't understand statistics. I think we're fine with like heart attacks because a lot of people have heart attacks. But if we had a thing tomorrow that could cure heart attacks and we're like, yeah, Cure is 97% of heart attacks. I think we'd have to take. Well, hang on. Okay, what if the thing that cured heart attacks took away 95% of freedom? What? Yeah. How good is, I think we've learned the last few years. The state isn't very good at measuring and properly balancing statistics. Didn't we learn this through COVID that they totally suck at that, totally suck. And anytime you have massive agreement and individuals can't do what they want, we get incredible tyranny, sweep, swept the globe, right? So are we going to fall into that? You can lie with statistics as well. You're absolutely right. Because a famous book Bill Gates loves it. Oh, come on. You can prove anything with statistics 97% of all people of that. Any time you hear security or safety, the reason they're doing something, you should have your head on a swivel and run the other way because they are doing something to keep themselves in power. And I think we've, you know, some of us have woken up over the last few years as to what's actually happening here. And there's zero question that's coming for crypto. I mean, there's zero question about that. It's just how far do they get? Yeah. Well, I think we're going to be confronting these issues again in the future. But for now, let's move on to the exit question. Really quick. As an idea, obviously, we worked on Bitcoin scaling before we worked on Bitcoin privacy. It makes sense to me, you'd have to develop the general Bitcoin network first before you would do privacy. But what do you think, Adam? Should we have done scaling first or privacy first? It's funny because I was just having a chat on Twitter with Luke Dash Jr. And Luke says, you know, obviously well known Bitcoin core dev says that 80% in order for Bitcoin to succeed, 80% of users need to run a full node. 80% I push back. I'm like, 80, that can't be right. I can't be. He's like, no, 80%. I said, bro, if that's the metric, then if Bitcoin needs 80% of users, if Bitcoin needs 80% of users to run a full node, Bitcoin will never succeed. That number is impossible. And he's like, well, then it will fail. So this is like, if that's the case, and this is like one of the most highly respected Bitcoin core devs, is Bitcoin ever going to really succeed? I mean, I don't know, man, I'm looking for alternatives to Bitcoin. That's the way I am. I'm open to alternatives because as it is, we've agreed that it's a store of value. OK. You know, we can debate all day if that was the original design of Satoshi. She sure doesn't seem like it. But that's where we are now. But it's not a it's not a P to P cash system right now. And will it ever be a P to P cash system? My gut says no. You know, how can we have something that was developed in 2009? Is the first one always the best one? Very rarely. And I think there if we really want P to P trading, P to P exchanges, can it be Bitcoin? I don't think in its current state or anywhere in the near future could ever be that. I just I think it's impossible. It's ETF to Coinbase. You can't work. Yes. Yes. Right. And maybe that's OK. Maybe that's OK. And we have other alternatives. But we need to understand that that's what it is. And what are we as a crypto space going to do? If it's only Bitcoin, you know, freedom money is dead. If it's only Bitcoin, you know, but freedom money, which a lot of us signed up for at the beginning of this, like that's is still needed. And how are we going to get there? What it's going to be like we need to start having these conversations. This is probably not Bitcoin. I mean, well, I haven't I haven't agreed that it's only a store of value. I still think it's a Swiss army knife with a variety of tools. And that I do think we'll go through this point where all the Bitcoiners give up on Bitcoin. And they all walk away and they say it's too corporate. It's too government. It's too slow. It's too old. Whatever you want to do. And I think we go back to TCP IP, which is the foundation of the internet. They said it couldn't do streaming video. They said it couldn't do voice over IP. They said it couldn't do animated gifts. They said this network couldn't do a lot of things. And as we found out, it bent and it bent and it bent. And they brought in different developers and different ideas. And they kept expanding it. And the internet still works today. And we have streaming video. We have animated gifts. Everything is great. But I do think that what we haven't seen before, just as we've talked before about the Facebook stock before it was Facebook stock, we don't see that part of the market. We're all not focusing on whatever company A is and startup B. We just don't know. And you can't invest in them. Bitcoin, other meanwhile, is public. With its development, public with its investing options, clearly traded on markets. And it's public with its own. And it's been fighting and everything else. And you know, you don't see this in a normal company. Amazon, Jeff Bezos didn't have a breakout fight with his lieutenants. And they weren't like publicly tearing each other down on Twitter, but on Bitcoin they are. So I still think we have a chance. I think it could turn around. But I think it's worth noting and worth worrying about. Like Adam has said, these are important issues. And we have to bring them to the front. But Josh, what do you think? Should we have done scaling or privacy first and you know, feel free to come on. What Adam said, of course. Yeah. No, like scaling to Bitcoin for me is it are the altcoins because the technology is out of the bag. And that was the end goal is to separate money in state. And anybody that just wanted one coin, one Bitcoin isn't very competition, you know, friendly in my mind. If they were just one thing, it becomes infinitely easier to corrupt because there's just one of them. You can just shut down that one thing. They can't shut down everything now. They can shut down tornado cash. Someone's coming up, going to come up with some coin somewhere else and that'll be something you know, whatever. Like there's so many ways of dealing with this. I mean, Monero is still going. It's still there. It doesn't need a specialized wallet. There's privacy in terms of scaling versus privacy in terms of what should we develop first. I think it's an interesting, it's a really interesting question. It's a really interesting question. Charlie Lee put member Wimbledon and he didn't like to talk about the privacy side. And that's what I understand too because he was focused on the scalability that member Wimbledon brought Litecoin. It just so happened that there's a privacy component to it. So I think when Satoshi was still around, he like and and we had a lot of money. And WikiLeaks, for instance, got cancelled by a visa and mastercard paypal. Everyone just shut like collectively overnight just cancelled them. And they started to accept Bitcoin and Satoshi was freaking out on the forum saying, no, there's two early guys. This will attract the eye of Soran. Stop, stop, stop. And they went ahead anyway because it's permissionless. No one, no one, you know, even Satoshi can't stop anyone using Bitcoin. And so yeah, I think when choosing, I think it's wiser maybe to choose scale if it's a simple upgrade. The problem is with scale, the more you scale, the more consensus you need when upgrading. This is what Hardens Bitcoin, because in fact, all the people that develop Bitcoin don't really have a say in if it's upgraded. The users do so Luke is wrong by the way. Okay, good. I don't know. God damn, you're telling me people need to run nodes. It's it's D-O-A, like that's a maybe he's just fucking with me. I was going to say they used to have a node in the original Satoshi client, right? You could run at mining, you could run a node, you just push the button. So I agree, like as an aspiration, that would be beautiful. This world where everyone runs a client and everyone downloads a gigantic block chain. Oh, you have to have a full notes. You got to sync to the block chain for like, you know, a week or two. And every normal person's going to do this, they're going to keep their computer on and they kind of come back and check, oh, it's on this block. Oh, it's on this block. Oh, I'm so excited. No, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I agree. Oh, I can say, I can say definitively because I tried to set up a node last whatever January right before ordinals started. And it was a disaster. It was literally a shit show for like a week trying to get a node to run on my old computer with an external hard drive and blah, blah, blah. Now because of ordinals, I'm telling you it was one button easy to run a full node. It was completely different. The tech had been completely upgraded and my experience to run a node was completely different. So, yeah, I was one benefit of ordinals. Well, and I do think this could be part of the future collector societies. You're saying earlier with the wallets, Adam, people have to run their own node so that they feel like they own their own ordinals or their own NFTs or whatever they are. That idea of like I own the wallet, I own the node, I'm operating the network. And I think people would like this as a collector. Like you'd have this card that only works in the magic, the gathering system, or you can have this card that anybody could buy, anybody could sell, anybody could check if you own it. It's just a lot better. Yeah. And I mean, it's better than more people that run miners, the better. Like everybody should run a USB miner. It costs you a sweet, F.O. electricity. Yeah, you won't get paid. Like you won't get paid. Well, they're not going to do it if they don't get paid. Come on. Hey, look, you actually, you might, you probably have more chance if you run a single USB miner to win the, to winning the lottery. Like you have more chance actually winning a block still, maybe. I don't know statistically, but it sort of, it's maybe, maybe that's right. But anyway, obviously the more the better, the more the merrier. And that's why we've kept the blocks low is that you then everyone can run. Sinking a full node right now is really, really difficult. It takes a long time. But there's technologies. There's better ways. And this is, this is the thing with the hardening of any blockchains, what tends to happen is it hardens. It becomes harder to upgrade because it does need that consensus. So if you scale, then you need more people to come to consensus to upgrade. You need 50-wamps network to upgrade to the software at a single time. And so, in a way, you kind of maybe just want to put privacy at the beginning and then scale up. Yeah, it's, it's a very interesting question. I mean, you know, with all the L2 stuff happening over the last six months on Bitcoin and Ethereum now has multiple L2s and it's really popping off. My gut says that we may just live in this world, you know, in a decade from now where you just have these very specialized L1s, right, where, and they interoperate with each other. And you just get that, right, where you can have a privacy L1 or a fast L1 or the NFT L1 or the, you know, the DeFi L1, right, where you just get these L1s that are highly specialized and they just kind of communicate and talk to each other. Very positive. That's what, that's why we have Matt Bickcoin's, well, sorry Thomas, I never know what to call you these days. Uh-huh. Um, is arguing that Bitcoin isn't a Swiss Army knife that we don't want to go past the store of value because at the core, if it's the store of value, as long as it still has IO, you can have L2s on that. And so then you do have that specialized side of things. The only thing is that the UX is different and we need to come to terms with the UX is different with L2s. Maybe some really clever UX UI person designer will come up with a much better experience. But yeah, we see it on Ethereum. It's a complete shit show. Like moving in and out between these L2s, it's really horrible. You have to, you have to have, you have to have to really be wanting to use this network and look profit motive. There is enough motive there for people to want to learn this stuff. That's why it is popular. But it's still popular only amongst the technocratic class. You know, it's not like you can go into some sort of like small village somewhere and they're going to use Arbitram L2 because it's a bit quicker and faster. You know, so they probably have a poster up that says that in the town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, and that's unfortunate. You know, you don't want this system to be locked into any class structure, whether it's a technocratic like knowledge, knowledge gap that needs to be filled or not. But fundamentally, we're heading towards these L2s just purely because the L1s, you can either have it that everybody has that experience that we all felt when we've originally got some Bitcoin that we couldn't and this is one of the reasons I didn't think the Lightning Network was really working and one of the sort of moments where I went, oh, but I still clung onto her was the fact that I couldn't do the demo of, oh, you want to see how it works? Here, I'll send you some and I just I would just send it instead. I would have to get them to do a whole bunch of steps first and then send me an invoice. I have to open up a channel with them and then I have to like, there was way too much. I couldn't just go here. Open up a wallet, create seed later. Don't worry about it, but make sure you do and blah, blah, blah. And there it was. A hard moment achieved. I definitely think we need more Lightning networks and I welcome them. Oh, my name's Dad, bro. Everybody. Whatever they are, Lair 2s, whatever you want to call them. We need more additional layers on Bitcoin. Lightning is a very popular one. As far as the problem with scaling and privacy, I agree with Josh. It's very much an issue where once you fix scaling, the network gets too big and it's very difficult to fix privacy later. But I think if we look at it in another way, like we've been talking about here with money, you can get money for a Lightning network. They got a bunch of startup money. They hired a bunch of programmers. You can't really get money for a privacy system. And as we've seen now, it may be illegal to try to get money for a privacy system, depending on how you describe it and so forth, how it functions. But I think this is going to go on. I got contacted with a guy who's building like a privacy layer for Ethereum. Because he wanted to get some funding. And I literally said to him, bro, I can't, in good conscience, pass you to anybody. Like I can't, I can't, I know people who would, who would fund stuff. But I can't pass people, I can't pass you to people. Right. It's just you can't, nobody I know, I can't in good conscience advise anybody to invest in something like that right now. That's a lot. A lot of this is similar to the free speech issue. We like to think that free speech is, oh, people we support and constitutional issues and liberty and that kind of thing. But the reality of free speech usually ends up in horrible pornography, horrible violence, horrible, just gory, awful shit that you don't want. And that's probably the reality of privacy and free money. We like to think that it's just people avoiding government or just being private for their own values. But in reality, it's probably horrible people paying other horrible people to do horrible things that we don't want to know about. And this goes full circle back to when PayPal was being developed. And they were like, what if these PayPal coins were making get off our system and someone uses them for horrible things that we can't control it and we can't stop it. And our company now is the face of name your worst horrible thing. And I do think that's a problem. So yeah, but like tour, like we all use the internet and there's all developed by the United States Navy. Yes. And then tour, it's all came along, developed by the Navy, you know, developed by the secret services. Because they needed more anonymity within their network. They needed more people to be in there. And so the idea that the government is there to, you know, like basically stop all bad things is ridiculous. You can see it just by the development of tour and the development of the internet in general. In the internet, they're literally on clear net. There's just the most despicable stuff you can, if you can find it, if you're actually willing to search for it, there's so much filth on the internet. What, of course, I mean, why do we even give it any time of day? I mean, what, what currency has been used for more evil in the history of the world than the US dollar from whatever child born to murder to who knows what? I mean, well, remember, this is, this is how we react to every new technology. Every new technology we say it's going to destroy blah, blah, blah, the past. Now you know that crypto's under attack is that of all the banks that got penalties for money laundering, supporting, you know, North Korea, all that garbage, they've had billions of dollars in fine, not one CEO or anybody in power has gone to jail over that stuff, not one. And in crypto, CZ's gone to jail, the tornado cash guys have gone to jail. Samurai wallet guys are probably going to go to jail. They're taking out everybody. So there's a two tiered system. There's your with the politicians and your good because you're CEO of bank doing, you know, allowing bad stuff to happen. And then we have permissionless systems, which you're not even enabling it. It's just a permissionless system and all those guys are going to jail. It's complete hypocrisy. Thank you for coming to my tent. I think going going back to what Josh is saying about tour and how the governments came together and said, we as a group could use a private system that would help us. Similarly, I think there's a need for privacy and money and it does help governments and all people. It's a, I would say, it's a public good above these things. But unfortunately, like Adam says, I think it's going to take a masked individual, maybe a Satoshi Nakamoto to or whatever that works at the NSA that does this in his spare time that then says, Oh, I'll leak this code to the internet and let them have privacy under my name, which is going to be a fake name. And hopefully they'll be in another country. We've got it, right? We have Monero. It exists hard, you know, many people, most people don't really use it. It's there, you know, if you needed it's there. It's not there at scale. It's not going to let you buy, you know, a pack of cigarettes without anybody knowing about it. So it has a, a small use and it's a small, you get use case and it is what it is. Maybe that's all we need. I don't know. Well, there is a problem there where if you're mixing your dirty money with other people's dirty money, then you all have dirty money and it just doesn't work. So you do need kind of some normal people buying coffee in there to mix up the thing, which is part of the problem. But I think we got to move on to the next issue. I do think we're going to talk about this in the future. It's very rich zone. And as Adam said, crypto is under attack and continues to be under attack in issue two. Welcome to the United Kingdom. Please hand over your crypto and April changed to the United Kingdom law will allow authorities to treat crypto like other assets by seizing it without accusing suspects of wrongdoing. According to the article in simple terms, the change means that authorities can seize crypto from those suspected of criminal activity. The authorities will also have the power to seize physical items related to crypto investigations such as flash drives and written passwords. And here comes the really good part to quote, destroy a crypto asset. If returning it to circulation is not considered to be conductive to the public good. Josh, what do you think about the new law in the United Kingdom and the idea that they could destroy crypto? Yeah, I mean, this is the the wrench attack. I mean, you know, it's taken to its end degree that no one, you know, they just hold that wrench over your head until you give it over because they can't just take it like it doesn't work like that. Obviously, they know that. But they can threaten you they can threaten your life and your liberty. And then most people will just hand over and that's it's just it's unfortunate, but again, this is probably why the free market this is this all these things would drive the free market to more of to hiding more and more stuff. And eventually, this is what drives the that fuck you currency of getting paid in fuck you. That's that that developers will go, you know what, I'm not going to get paid for this. I have to stay totally anonymous, but I'm going to create a smart contract that just hides this stuff because fuck you. And as all of these things, like, you know, what like Adam said in the beginning of this show, the ETFs it's driving it's driving the world towards these ETFs. These ETFs will hold all your Bitcoin and you don't need anything else. You don't need anything else. What are you a terribalist? And so, um, so that's why, uh, you know, this is again a part part of the attack part of the attack. But funny, it's it's interesting seeing these attacks come out because in the early days, an article like this came out, it would show in the price like really quickly. Um, in fact, the price would show up first and then you go, what happened? What happened? And then you find the article and nowadays something like that comes out, you know, we've been so desensit, the markets become so desensitized to it. It doesn't care. Now, there's two ways that that you could read that. One is we've gotten so big that the market doesn't care about it anymore. Um, B, uh, the ETFs, everyone, you know, that drives the price now and not the real market, which is people on the ground using it. Um, uh, yeah. So who knows what the answer is? What do you think the answer is there? Chat. Well, I'm not not articles from a small country that's not even connected to the EU. That certainly doesn't drive the business. But Adam McBride, what do you think about this latest attack on crypto this time from the UK? And again, it's probably just some random law, but like, it's fun to elevate it. Yeah. At the end of the day, it's funny. They even need a law because they just do what they seem to do what they want. Anyway, um, yeah, I think we're coming, it just feels like we're coming to end games here as far as crypto goes. And whether it's a year or two years, um, you know, to Josh's point, is it going to be fully underground? And only, you know, people who are scourting laws are going to be able to have and hold crypto and everything's going to have to be and privacy activists and cyber. As going to be cool, cool kids with, uh, you know, gene jackets and patches and stuff. I mean, I sure hope it doesn't get there. Right. I sure hope it doesn't get there. And if it does, uh, God help us, um, but it's certainly moving in that direction, you know, where you're going to have to report every transaction over a hundred bucks and, you know, doxal your wallets. And I mean, I've seen stuff happening in the EU where if you have a transaction over a thousand, I mean, they make it at 10,000 now, any transaction over 10k, you've got to report who you're sending it to. They're so security number, all that garbage, uh, and that gets ramped down to 5,000, then no 1000 and then everything. And what are we doing here? And what we're doing is we're moving into a totalitarian state where you're simply a slated state. And if we want to move there, like if enough people don't push back, we will move there. And what Satoshi's invention is going to do is give them the perfect tool to monitor and control, um, every citizen of the world. And if we want to move there, we don't fight back, we will move there. And the internet and, and crypto, the two greatest inventions in our lifetime will be basically our jail. And we have a choice. We want it to be that jail or do we want it to be the way we're free. And you know, which way we're going to go, man, that's the fight is happening right now. And we've got how much world of warcraft gold have you got on your wallet, sir? I don't know. You know, I'm not good enough. You got please declare any US dollars or U. H. A. dollars and world of warcraft gold. You're magic internet money must be declared. Well, I think Adam's right, but I think it's always been this way. We've always been right on the edge of a totalitarian state. And for Bitcoin to work, we have to go right up against that edge where you're like, Oh, no, it's going to fail. It's going down. It's going down. And then it pulls out and it comes back up and you're like, why didn't that seem obvious the whole time? And I just think it's something about humans. We only fix things at the end. We only fix it when it's a crisis. We're seeing this with global warming and other problems as well. And again, there is a question, will we come together at the end to fix it? Will there be enough time? And I think it's a similar all or nothing problem with crypto as well as with the environment and other issues. But we got to keep moving. We're running out of time moving on to issue three coin base recovers after a system wide outage, but user withdrawals remain offline. While the reason behind the three hour system wide outage remains unknown, some users are still unable to transfer or withdraw their funds. We just want to make fun of coin base again to be critical of them. They're a huge company. They're on the stock market. They have lots of backup servers, lots of engineers. This shouldn't happen anymore. This acts as a circuit circuit breaker on Bitcoin. It's messing up our ability to go up or to go down or to find out what the real prices of Bitcoin. But the larger issue with coin base seems to be according to Tyler Durdon's zero hedge on the internet. He says black rock can take as much Bitcoin as they want from coin base and the transaction is recorded off chain. He says he'd like to see the ETFs wallets and says, thank you, Brian. You massive cunt. He also says the real problem with this is that people or actually the banks can borrow Bitcoin from coin base to short and are not required proof that they hold it one to one. So they could borrow more money and they could short the market with a larger amount of money crushing the market. Let's go to Adam McBride. What do you think about coin base? They can't keep their servers up. They seem to be allowing the banks to borrow infinite ammunition to run against us. First, I would say I like coin base. Obviously, Brian, they've put up the good fight. Obviously, not a cunt, even though that's what the article says. Definitely not a cunt. I love those guys and for what they've been doing to actually push back. That said, look, it's very possible. Bitcoin and the ETFs are simply a mechanism to capture Bitcoin. And we see it in the gold market. I used to be a Wall Street guy, Wall Street shows. We would do them every day. And once a month, we would have our silver guy on. And the entire show was about how silver was a manipulated market, the entire show. And that's all he talks about. How silver's manipulated. I have gold bugs who say the same thing. And the silver one turned out to be right. So sometimes the crazy people are right. There's zero question. Kirk Cobain said just because you're paranoid. Don't mean they're not after you. Go ahead, I'm sorry. There's zero question that this will happen to Bitcoin. Zero question. It will be paper Bitcoin traded. You will not know the full supply of that paper. And they will manipulate the market. Zero question. This is what Wall Street does. So that's happening. And anybody who says it's not happening is not paying attention. Like that will. It's already happening. Just a question of how bad it's going to get. And if you follow silver at all, you know it will get very bad. It's going to get bad. You're a full stop. Josh Egoller, the writings on the wall, the potential for re-hypothication and for infinite shorting. It's all there. What do you think? Yeah. It's all there. The potential is all there. It's true that ETFs can use everything off chain. They don't and hide everything from the public. And you know while and I don't see all of these judges in wanting to put that down and calling it a privacy thing. And you know there's two ways of privacy. This one one way is hiding it from everybody. And then there's hiding it from everybody except for the state. And that's really fundamentally what we've gotten to. And then you could say, well that's fine. If you have the perfect state. If there's an uncorruptible, uncorrupted entity that runs and it's not made of fallible people, it's made of one guy that's perfect. And we all know that that's some sort of a weird pipe dream. It's not going to happen. The whole reason you have checks and balances and a whole nurse of strategies to try to stop corruption and things is because the governments are made fallible creatures. And bullies tend to rise to the top. They tend to head towards the state. They tend to be comfortable in the corridors of power. And that's just a fact. And we can't get away from that. So yeah. Quite based. I think they have put up a good fight for a long time. I think it's amazing that we have a company that's listed. It's an exchange that's managed to get people. Bitcoin in the hands of everyday people. Easily. I think they are the Google of crypto. I think there's always, and it's important to pick holes in them. It's important to criticize them. It's also important to say, hey, well done. You know, for doing what you've done, the good side, because everything's in Yang here with something centralized as Coinbase. But for those people, and I've heard it multiple times. In fact, I've heard it more often than I wish to remember. They say, no, you scale Bitcoin through exchanges. They are the L2. I've even heard really top Bitcoin to say this. The L2s are. That could only be people that work at exchanges. Yeah, sadly not. So yeah. But now you can clearly see this is why it's not an L2, because it goes down for nine hours or whatever it is. People are fearful of their money. Not your keys, not your crypto. And yeah, unfortunately, I've even seen a lightning network node take my funds before as well. A lightning network was custodial. So yeah, it's not the way forward. These are all tests and things along the way. And a lot of these technologies, a lot of these technologies, you don't need them until you need them. And that's where you get this drive. You don't need privacy until you need privacy all of a sudden, because the whole government's turned nasty or whatever. And so this is why a lot of people find it hard to put themselves into that space. And that's why a lot of people will let governments pass ludicrous things into law, like the Patriot Act, for instance, because they have voted 51% of the people have voted these people into law. So they like them. And they say, no, we like it. They're good people. We voted them in. A lot of people voted these people in. We love them. So yeah, you know, 40% of the people hate them up against it. But you know, 60% of the people really love these people. So they can't, you know, they're good people. So, but the problem is, if you let them put something bad into law, it's only matter of time to some asshole takes the government over. And suddenly, you're on the 40% side. But that law is still there. And now it's not playing on your side. It's playing for the other team, who actually use it for bad reasons that you never dremt could happen. And so people, unfortunately, it's a human thing. And I, you know, people generally they should think like that a little bit more like, hey, you know, we're not building it. We're not saying no because we hate you right now. Mr. government or, you know, apparatus, we're saying it because Westgate Westgate once Hitler comes into power. You know, we don't want Hitler to follow everything everyone's doing all the time. That's scary. Well, we got to go back to Coinbase now. But every once in a while, someone comes along to Bitcoin, this perfect invention. And they say, I've got a black box. I want to attach to Bitcoin. And it's going to improve everything. And Coinbase is just another of these black boxes. I'm not surprised at all that they're selling us out to BlackRock and that they're afraid of these giant hedge funds. And they obviously made a bad deal where they don't have to get a one-to-one deal when they give these coins out. It's just a bad deal. I'm disappointed they can't keep the servers up. I'm disappointed they can't have users' balances. This is a giant company hire more people. I don't have any sympathy for you. You're on the stock market. Your stock is up. Your people are all selling stock. Maybe you got some deadwood in there. Some people that were good early in the startup. And they need to be let go. Maybe you have a CEO that's not a professional CEO. And you need to let them go and move into the future where you have a CEO who says, number one, we're going to keep that website up. Because I've seen it happen at Twitter, not the new X Twitter, but the old Twitter used to have the fail whale all the time. And the new guy, I think it was Jack at the time, Jack Dorsey came in and said, well, number one, we're not going to be known for the fail whale anymore. We're going to, if we have to rewrite the code to the base, we're going to do it. And Coinbase, and this is a complete joke at this time. We cover this every time the price goes up when his coin base crashed. And it's funny. Ha, ha, ha. But they're not just a little startup down the hall anymore. They're a giant company on the stock market. It's not acceptable for your servers to crash. And this multi day thing where the users can't get their money out. People don't trust Bitcoin when they go to their coinbase and it says zero. If you're going to crash, at least crash nicely, say, we're sorry we're having a crash. We'll come back up later. Don't have it say zero. And then this idea that the users couldn't withdraw their money days after. And this goes on and on. You're just spreading fudge. You're making people distrust crypto directly with their experience where they'll tell me and they'll say, yeah, I had money here. And I couldn't withdraw it. And it'll be true. It's not. And it's not Bitcoin's fault because obviously Bitcoin network still works fine. But they're using Coinbase. They're using ETFs. They're using not real layer twos that they think are like, hopefully they learn the Coinbase isn't crypto. Hopefully they learn that maybe maybe one day they'll learn that a lot of our customers back in the days. They had a local bitcoins wallet. And they would say to you, Bitcoin is local bitcoins. Like what do you mean other wallet? Like they had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. So we got we got we got to keep moving. We're running out of time here. But everyone if you want to see more, you can check out world crypto network world crypto network.com on this day in 2013. We had a video in 2014. We had two videos, 15, two videos, 16, two videos, 18, a video, 19, 20. Look at this. 21. We had a whole bunch of videos on 24, including a share with Adam McBride. How about that? So you can check it out right now worldcryftonetwork.com. We would have a short from me talking to the tall girl. That was really popular. Moving on to issue four, the state of Wisconsin investment board just disclosed a $162 million Bitcoin ETF holding in SEC filings. They've got 90 million $99 million in I bit $63 million in GBTC. As Bitcoin archive says, state adoption, then nation's state adoption. It's not a huge story. But Adam McBride, what do you think about Wisconsin? Buying themselves some Bitcoin just as soon as that ETF gets active just as we'd always predicted on this show. Yeah, I mean, looking not the Wisconsin part for you. Easy to ease of access has always been the thing for even family offices and stuff. It's like, you know, just the ease of access and buying it in a way that they know how to buy it. It's legal and ticks all the boxes. The big deal. It's a big deal for Bitcoin and price of Bitcoin. Number go up for Bitcoin is obviously a big deal. Obviously. So to be expected, you know, but boy, I don't know. It just feels like I just I put it out there. This feels like Bitcoin capture. This, oh, come on. We got Wisconsin with us now. Wisconsin's on the team. I'm on milk. Every May 17th, I'm going to be on the show and we're going to revisit Bitcoin capture from now on. I think so. Josh, Shagall, they've got Bitcoin and Wisconsin now. I remember back when this Bitcoin thing was only drug money for the Silk Road and you dirty internet perverts. Now the entire state of Wisconsin is $162 million worth of dirty. Yeah, go to Wisconsin. Yeah, out of well, I generally what happens is the state gets this money by arresting people that did bad things and then they go, look, we've got many. There was this small country, I think, some Eastern block country in Europe that got so wealthy. They didn't even know it until someone found it. They actually could pay off their national debt. There's something like that. It was wild because they confiscated a whole bunch of Bitcoin in the early days. We got about it and then realized that they've got it. Really? How do I know that? That's cool. It was a long time ago. It was Bulgaria maybe. I think the sad end to that is that the evidence from the trial disappeared and no one knows what happened to that evidence. If you had that little key drive, you could have made off the entire country's debt. And I think Josh has a good point here. We could see Wisconsin that cheese heads owning the United States if they hold their investment and if they have strong diamond-like hands, which I know you guys do because we're holding the Magic 8-ball, the source of all true knowledge in this universe. Adam McBride will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Oh, much higher. Oh, yes. Josh, Shagalla, higher or lower? I'm going to go higher. Yeah, I'm going to higher. Higher, baby. And we'll ask the 8-ball. Here we are. We're shaking it. Will the price be higher this time next week? What's that for bubbles, dude? Outlook not so good. Outlook not so good. So the panel is bullish, but the ball is not. That's a contrarian ball for you. Very hairy. We've got one more issue. It's not very much. But we just want to talk about humanity protocol becomes crypto's new digital identity Bitcoin. The startup has raised $30 million at a $1 billion evaluation as it looks to challenge project like WorldCoin for giving you an identity on the blockchain, which we all know the world crypto network did nine years ago with Chris Ellis and the world's first blockchain ID, which we had live here on the world crypto network. We gave someone a digital identity on October 24th, 2014. Josh, Shagalla, what do you think? Are we going to get a billion dollars now at the World Crypto Network? Are we a startup unicorn having mastered digital identity these such nine years ago? Yeah, yeah. I think you guys should absolutely get probably a trillion dollars with inflation and all. But just don't go to the Netherlands. This is a bad deal for me. This is maybe a deal breaker. I might have to give up this digital identity program if I can't go to the Netherlands. Adam McBride, what do you think you're probably now just hearing that Chris Ellis legendary world crypto network contributor created a digital identity on the blockchain put that woman Jaina, her identity into the blockchain so that she would be identifiable anywhere almost a decade ago. Is that on name coin back then? I think it might have been on name coin or Bitcoin or counterpart. I think it was counterparty type thing. But it was copied by several other companies and then now a billion dollar unicorn. Obviously I'm waiting for my billion dollars and Chris is waiting to give him a cut. Digital IDs have been a thing literally it was like the first thing discussed. And so yeah, I mean they tried it on name coin. Manib who started stacks began it on name coin moved it to Bitcoin then moved it to stacks and and like digital I mean I think I wrote a big piece on it you know three weeks ago when sailor came out with you know whatever he calls it micro strategy orange or whatever digital IDs it's one of those things nobody's cracked the nut completely. It's I I propose that the the best digital ID right now is a dot e addressed with your NFT pfp like that's the most robust ID system we have online. You know I just don't think it's one of those that's really really difficult to a really difficult nut to crack. And you know guys raising 10 million for a new blockchain that seems like easy to do because because you can have a token event you can people think they're going to get rich like raising money VC money like that that's easy whether or not they're going to be able to crack that nut. I give it very little chance only because a bunch of people have already tried to crack the nut and it's a really really tough one to do. And again just to talk about like governments and stuff it's the one that's most terrifying to you know I think that was it just came out with the their digital ID system I think it was Australia wasn't it where they approved the digital ID system which will be voluntary and I'm using my air quotes here voluntary in the beginning but as we know these systems become non voluntary down the road and it's it's a bit terrifying when you start putting it in the hands of the state. I think it's similar to the privacy situation where you need a Satoshi you need an anonymous solution when you have a centralized identity database of any kind then we start to get into those problems where you say this identity can't do that this identity is on a bad list and even if you have the best intentions and maybe the Australians only have you know five to ten people that they have to put on the list you're still blocking those people from using a lot of systems. You know the Australia they don't have the best intentions like just look at COVID what they did down there it's disgusting people still post those videos of what happened in Australia during COVID like it's terrifying. I call it like grabbing women and choking them out the cops that it was intense. Yeah but uh yeah well Josh what do you think do we need a digital ID solution should it be centralized government a private corporation start up. I mean it's uh there's two sides of it like you need digital identity in terms of storing a reputation online that can be private so you build an avatar and that avatar gets a reputation and and funnily enough and there is some research I remember reading a research paper about this that people hold those adjusters dear as their own identity because if you've built a business on this identity and you can see it like with eBay for instance. eBay you have your identity that's a centralized version but you don't want to destroy that identity by scamming someone because you've got really good feedback and if that gets destroyed then you have to start again and you have to sell for much cheaper you can't you know so there there is definitely use case for that but yeah Adams absolutely correct it's really really difficult and we see multiple people to try this you can uh there there has also been centralized authorities that try to tackle this obviously through KYC like why do I have to do KYC on multiple things all the time like why why why isn't there one entity that okay I see with and uh they're used everywhere and I can just say no I already did that for another project here's my you know hash blew the lamp done ah yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah blah it doesn't uh it just hasn't happened um there's there's a problem with centralized solutions obviously uh don't need to go into the problem there is but just to highlight that problem I remember going through the airport in the U.S. and they wanted my finger prints like a criminal at the airport and I said who's this going to Where's the start? I'm just putting my finger on this device and the guy's like, Man or not. I don't know. I'm like, I think I have a right to know where my digital identity is going right now. And he's like, I do know that the last company we stopped using them because they got there was a breach or something. And so now there's a new company and I'm like, it's fine now, but the last guys. Oh, worry. Oh, I don't know if you guys have seen this recently in the airports, where they're just scanning your face. I mean, this is happening now. Getting on the plane, you don't even bring out your passport anymore. It just scans your face. So it's happening. I mean, we're already here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the thing when you said the Australian digital ID, it's voluntary. Well, it's voluntary unless you want to drive, or unless you want to complain or unless you want to business license or unless you want anything. I mean, dude, it's just serious. So it's not voluntary at all. It's nonsense to even call it that. It's totally disingenuous to call it that. But yeah, anyway, so yeah, digital IDs. I don't know. Let's see. I'd rather. Up against what you're talking about, Thomas, we're bumping right up against it, man. This whole show's been about bumping up against it, man. We're fucking, bumping, fucking shit out of it right now. It's crazy. Well, it's always been there. And this has always been about cypherpunk versus everyone. And everyone's like, I'm going to pretend not to be a cypherpunk. I'm going to put on my business suit and go make a bunch of money. And the reality is that the cypherpunk war is always there. That the privacy versus not having privacy too much privacy to little privacy, all of these things. It's always there. It's always a part of it. And as Josh said, they are worried about that data retention. You do have to put your fingerprint there. You don't get a choice. In Europe, they do have laws about the data retention. So they are trying to start to make this public and discuss it as an issue. So I do think we're making progress there. But on the privacy issue and the identification, I think part of the problem is that we use our digital identity on the internet differently than we use say our driver's license or a public ID. Our public ID, we walk into a place, we buy something sometimes cash, use your driver's license to prove you're a driver. But on the internet, you have so many different kind of meta-personalities or aliases that you would want to keep separate. You'd want to keep your private life separate from your work life. You'd want to keep your work life separate from your home life. So on and so forth. And I think the solution that does come through will have something that solves this alias problem. Whereas Joshua is saying anyone can have an alias, multiple people could be the alias. They could use it for writing like Mark Twain. They could use it for writing code like Satoshi Nakamoto. But it would still be this linkable digital identity, this alias that you would know you were talking to Satoshi and you could employ them and so on and so forth. They'd have a track record in a history. But I don't know who that's going to be. I do think they should give a billion dollars to the World Crypto Network. Obviously a unicorn that had this ID first. We have just one more topic we have to talk about. Unfortunately last week we talked about Apple computers crush ad as Neil cyber says on Twitter Apple has apologized for its iPad crush ad. It will not be shown on TV or receive any paid media. The ad remains up on Apple's YouTube channel. And I assume more main in iPad event replies Apple came up with the ad internally. And that would have been fine if Apple's advertising company wasn't out there copyright striking anyone that discussed the ad. Even though we on the world crypto network here have made nice positive commentary based shows for the last decade YouTube doesn't have a separate class of people at least you know, we're too small to be in a protected class. So they blocked us. So we were blocked all weekend. You couldn't see our show. Meanwhile apples out there publicly apologizing saying we want to turn the corner, but they're blocking creatives. Now we took the time to fill out the form and to complain try to get our show back online. A lot of people won't be able to do that. A lot of people will lose revenue over this weekend or longer that they're blocking. And also they're forcing us to discuss the Apple ad again, which was a disaster and a tragedy. And Samsung a competitive company. And again, this is clearly fair use. This is called commentary when you play something and you discuss it. Samsung has reached their own counter ad blocking Apple. As we discussed last week and I won't play it Apple smashed a guitar and many other things in a big press and an iPad came out the other side. Here's Samsung's response. And then we'll discuss what apples been up to. Oh, actually did I share the sound? Let me do one more time to make sure. I think the sounds are very good. Sometimes it's not checked. Here we go. Samsung's response. Now I think they killed it there. It was cheap. It was simple. It was quick. It was response. It's human. She's playing the broken guitar, bringing it back together. But Josh, you all already think about this whole mess that Apple has put us in blocking our show all weekend and no doubt lots of other small creators as well who just wanted to discuss what was a very bad and a very inhuman ad Apple crushed not only the guitar, but the guitar player, the piano player, everyone that's in there, the artist all crushed Samsung restores them, brings them back to life, celebrates their humanity of playing the broken guitar. Huge defeat for Apple, not something you'd expect a complete reversal. Go ahead Josh. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, you know, Apple is going to, Apple is going to try and protect themselves. I'm sure who I think is a fault here is YouTube. YouTube is being the strong arm for this nonsense. How can you possibly defend people discussing an ad and cancelling that? It just demented and really, really bad, really terrible. Samsung's not coming along and doing that yet. Cool. It's a tip for tat thing. It's fun. But yeah, corporate crushing voices because they're discussing events. I'm sure, I'm pretty sure, if everyone loved that ad of Apple's and we talked about it, it would stay up. And this goes to advertising is what corporations want you to know. Everything else is something else. Advertisement, oh, that's the quote. Something about PR. We could do everything else as proper. Everything is as proper as a gander. Yeah, something like that. But I do think Josh, they made a, the big question now is, is Samsung going to pull down our video this week? We clearly just discussed the Samsung advertisement. They have a shot. I think that the original Apple ad, the 1984 ad was only played once on the Super Bowl. Afterwards, it was everyone talking about it on the news, talking about it, playing it on their show, which is how political ads get around as well. Sometimes you don't even have to play a political ad on TV. You just released it on the internet. It's so sensational. They play it on every show for you, which is, should have been part of Apple's strategies. That's why I'm so surprised that they're out there blocking YouTubers who are no doubt criticizing the ad. Many of them, probably Apple users, like myself, creative people who Apple built their company on and now has decided they'd rather smash down into an iPad, which is a really strange inhuman statement by Apple. But let's go to Adam, you weren't here last week. Maybe you're a fan of the Apple ad and you enjoyed their smashing of humanity into a beautiful new iPad. Yeah, I didn't know about the YouTube thing, but we've known about this now for multiple years. YouTube is a censorship platform and it's disgusting. Period. Full stop. There's nothing to say about YouTube. YouTube is lost. And Google, as we see through the DEI stuff, Google is lost. Google needs a giant shakeup. But that's maybe a comment for another day. The ad I actually put out a tweet that I thought the ad was genius, because it it was the first ad in a long time for Apple that caused people to talk about it. I thought in that way, I mean, I may not have agreed with it. I thought it was like my initial reaction was the exact same as yours. This is terrible. But then I saw everybody saying it was terrible. And I was like, Oh, wow, this is actually genius, which is the exact effect you want when you place an ad, which is everybody's talking about it. But there's such at the end of the day, just they're just a corporate behemoth and they caved and obviously did the super corporate thing. Which, you know, Steve Jobs is probably rolling over in his grave. You know, it is what it is. I mean, I thought my initial reaction to the ad was the whole point of the ad was it's thinner. Like Steve Jobs, if that's what your companies become, which is just a feature, like God help you, like Steve Jobs would literally be like, what is this? You're all fucking fired, right? But then it was like, no, everybody's so upset about this, about destructing, destroying the humanity and everything that makes music great and creativity great. Oh my God, this is actually a really powerful ad. But now they're, it's just giant corporations lost terrible, disgusting, disgusting across the board. It was an incredible turn for Apple to really attack their own customers to show smashing and so many of the close-ups of the emoji guy or the artist statue being smashed or so many faces, they put extra faces in there on like a television and stuff. They're smashing all these faces. But then again, I agree with you, Adam, if it is good media because we're talking about it, you don't send out those idiots on YouTube to flag people's videos. Don't stop it. Keep your shoes on to me, tree. You have to tell us about the doomsday machine. It doesn't work if you don't tell us. It shows the zero balls, like zero. They can't take it. I don't think one hand doesn't know what the other hand's doing. And the one hand thought they were out there protecting their corporate property. This really nice ad that, you know, we had mispurposed by using an R video and other people had mispurposed probably with a lot more profanity. We were pretty, you know, even handed and fair about them. I thought, and certainly wouldn't have discussed them a second week if they hadn't have struck down our video. So like Adam said, it is unfortunate the way YouTube's built. YouTube decided that fair use is not your right. As it is in the constitution and in the law in the United States, anyway, of course, you have the right to fair use. You have the right to comment on things. And this is assumed. And the burden of proof should be on the company. The company should have to prove that it is not fair use. They should use clips. I have to say it's not commentary. Instead, they come to us. They knock our video down all weekend. If I was out of town, I wouldn't have been able to complain faster if I was offline or something. And we have to all the burden is on the small YouTuber who has to then fight a giant corporation and say, I actually do have this right. You know, I have fair use right to comment on you. And it's just completely wrong. The way the system set up. It puts the building on the small YouTube. I don't know if you guys saw it last week. Google is so lost and has lost its way so heavily. There was something going around the internet last week. I couldn't believe it. And I had to because I have a Google home like in a closet. I pulled it out of the closet hooked it back up to the internet to check it out. If you ask the Google like home assistant, hey, how many how many Jews died in the Holocaust? It comes back and says, I'm sorry, I can't answer that or I'm sorry. I don't know. It literally does that right now. That's how crazy it's gone over there in Google. Like they are completely lost as a company. And YouTube is just a reflection of what's happening over there. It's a disaster. Well, that's probably a sad overstate they're trying to block any kind of sensationalist topic. And unfortunately no one went through it. That's the problem. Is there not allowing free speeds? They're not allowing even their own AI which they're creating to have any sort of freedom. And so what they're doing is they're cracking down on freedom. It's completely the wrong direction to go. Well, we've always known this when they adopted the advertising model. Because if you're searching the internet as we talked about the all the horrible dirty stuff that's out there, no one wants their ads next to that. So you have to block the dirty stuff. And then that becomes this line where you drag it. And I assume for this one, they blocked everything with the word Jew and it and unfortunately ended up blocking a true historical question that one might ask out of curiosity rather than implying a negative thing. But I'm sure though, I hope they'll fix it. I don't know. They're not going to fix it, bro. It's unfixable right now. It is unfixable. I think so too. I mean, you know, this is why I actually think what Elon did for Twitter was really important. But the quote that I was referring to was journalism is printing what someone else does not want published and everything else is public relations from George Orwell, just FYI. And excellent quote. And I think a good note to head towards the end on. I want to give a shout out to everyone for joining our World Crypto Network Surfers Club. Your comments were also censored over the weekend. So I was unable to read them. But shout out to Glenn McKenzie, Matt, C-Win, DJ Booth. Of course, Roy West is still out there. He's still there. A lot of noobs. And Andy as well shout out to everybody in the chat. They also put waves in the chat. Yeah. Very cool. Give us another wave this week. It could be a hand or it could be a real wave like join the Surface Club. That's all right. Join the service club. You want to be in this club. The Surface Club is the coolest way. All the cool kids hang out. But yeah, let's go to Adam McBride. Are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Bro, what's hand? This has got me so worked up, man. I'm telling you, this is like whole show is just about crypto under attack. This is it. Freedom is happening. It is like, are we raised to believe that we were free people? And it is clear that that is under attack. And what are we going to do about it? I guess just keep trying to push back in any little way you can out there. And also, we've got Adam here. I wanted to show you guys the new issue of Bitcoin magazine, which I bought at a very expensive price. It's the ordinals issue. It says questions whether they're spam or not. And one of the really fun reasons I had to buy this really quick, even though I think it's ridiculously expensive for a magazine, is I had this really cool picture in there. Hey, look, it's our pal Theo. Shout out to the equipment from the World Crypto Network, Big Fan of Rare Pepe's. I think he's doing an auction at the NFT factory. And so not every day when you're flipping through a magazine in a store and you see someone you know. So shout out to Theo and this new Bitcoin magazine issue, even though it's $21. Like I know we're Bitcoiners and everything. It's $21. The other magazines in the store are like $8. Like I know a guy's like, you're not going to last very long. I guarantee like the rest of the issues that I didn't buy. Nobody's going to buy $21. At least it's not priced in Bitcoin. It could be worse. But let's go to Josh Shagalla. Do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead Josh. No, not really a prediction. I was just working a lot and I was a bit ill this week as people probably can hear in my chest. But so I hate that feeling of not being able to work. I've a workaholic and so not being able to work sucks. I hate it. And I managed to like watch absolute feel. I watched like 30 seconds of the Barbie movie and then I had to turn it off. I was just like, this is so demented. Like you have to go you have to go past 30 seconds Josh. It's actually a play within the film. No, like no, they're actually parodying the part that you turn out. It's so fine because it's a parody. And I loved it at the beginning. It's like Barbie solves all the world's problems. And Barbie makes everyone feel good. But if you actually watch the movie Josh, which you should, it goes away from that. It's a joke. But yeah, go ahead. Oh, yeah, I don't know. I was a say, I don't do it to yourself. The only reason I was watching it because everyone else was like, oh, comparing it to Oppenheimer. Like it was the weirdest thing, man. Like how how did Barbie movie get compared to Oppenheimer? It just just shows you how to mentor the world is. What's the anyway? Well, they came they came out at the same at the same time somehow. So they came out at the same time. But in in its own way, the Barbie movie is very creative and it's an interesting take on things. I don't know if you'd like the end. But I do think the part in the beginning you saw as a parody. So I appreciate it. Yeah. All right. Like kids smashing baby's heads, you know, in the beginning. I was well, that's a 2001 reference. Like we all see. I know. But like, I see. It's not into it. I was a say, oh, we're running out of time for today. I wanted to get one more shout out to my friend Ryan at a ZK audiovisual club. They do stuff for the ZKASH currency over there. He sent this painting of mad bitcoins. He says it was sent to him from the future. The real crypto media always has been always will be shout out to Ryan for saying this great AI picture of mad bitcoins from the future. And just very cool stuff. And thanks to everyone for joining us. Give us a wave down below in the comments or the chat. If you made it to the end of the show, we look forward to seeing your comments. And let us know what you think about Apple, the price. And of course, like Adam was saying Bitcoin under attack. Don't forget that. It's definitely the most important thing. That's about it for this show. We'll be back again next week. Until next time. Bye. Bye.