The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest crypto currency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Martin Wishmare, from General Bites. What evening, guys? Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Oh, right. Josh Egaala from the standard dot I.O. Moin, Moin. Ben Arck from LN Bits. Anastod, anastod, anastod, anastod, anastod, anastod. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Coinbase, soos the SEC for answer on rules specific to digital assets. Last week, Coinbase was moving to Bermuda. And now they're not messing around, planning to sue the securities in exchange commission, asking for clarity on digital assets. They've asked the SEC to respond to a petition that the company filed ailing for a rule specific to digital assets. Martin Wishmare, what do you think about Coinbase? Is it incredibly aggressive move to sue the United States government demanding clear regulation? I don't think Coinbase is aggressive. It's the SEC that has been really aggressive towards hostile towards crypto in general, Bitcoin and crypto. And money flows where it's well treated. If it's not the US, it's Bermuda. Dan Eve, I've seen other articles saying that crypto is dead in the US. Is Coinbase a suit part of that? It's just, I can understand why Coinbase is doing it, but I think they're almost forcing the SEC's hand at being more strict. Because of the fact they're counteroffensive, they need this. They want the decision, right? This is their business model. They can't operate and then turn around and have the SEC suddenly go out with the blue. Oh, actually, what you've been doing is legal. We're going to have to find you and blah, blah, blah. So I can see why they're doing it. At the same time, it's surely it's like stoking. It's poking the bear, right? It's like the SEC is a big angry bear that just wants to just wants to jump on people with lawsuits. But, you know, the Coinbase has got a point. Like they need clarity. And by not having clarity, you know, it makes their whole business model, you know, puts the whole business model at risk. So stoked the bear because we're in a bull market. Why not? I'll go actually go all the way off and talk about how a company like Coinbase will try to capture the market by establishing regulations that only they could fulfill. But now it seems they can't even create any credit for being the, uh, worm tooth to their Saramon that can't even get any credit for toadying and serving the government. Yeah, I mean, the only way that law works is when you have people pushing back against bad laws. So, you, because otherwise becomes lawless in terms of the SEC just do whatever they want. If the SEC continue to do whatever they want, they, they really need to see the true meaning of crypto volatility. And that's Brian Armstrong being angry. And, uh, and, uh, and so I, I, I, I'm really think it's important that a big well funded, um, a strong player can push back against nonsense, bullying behavior. And, uh, and I think I'm, I really, uh, you know, I take my hat off to, uh, to, to Brian for doing that. I think it's really good. I think it's needed. Um, and I hope that out of this will come some sensible, uh, rules and, um, and some clarity. And that's all that Coinbase really want. They, the Coinbase keeps saying, we will play ball with whatever ball you throw. And, uh, and that's what the goal is to tell us what the ball looks like. You know, that's all we want to know. And let's play. I'm being told that it was worm tongue in Lord of the Rings, worm tongue and Saramon. And Arach, what do you think? Coinbase, the first to the market can't get any love from the government. It doesn't know what to do. Strong in the arm, thick in the head, Brian. Go on my son, challenge them. Clearly there's a bias there. Um, and, uh, I think revealing that bias in the, you know, within a lawful framework, uh, it's a good idea. Like they've decided to move their operations abroad and then they probably looked at the regulations and thought, well, in other industries, the regulations are the severe. And actually we do have a strong legal case. So go on, Brian, give him what full? I'll do a fire. First, he was banging his shoes on the table saying he was going to move to permuta. And the next thing you know, he's joining one of those polycules. And they're all the rage these days. Moving on to the exit question, predicting the price of Bitcoin against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the source of all truth and knowledge in this universe. Martijn Wishmeyer, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Well, I think higher. I think the, the bulls are almost out of the woods and we are definitely going to see a higher price. Dan Eve, are we out of the woods yet? It's going. Dan's bullish. That must be a counter indicator. Joshua, should call it higher or lower? Uh, we're, we're going higher. I, it's, it's negatively correlated to the banking crisis now that we're seeing all these more banks fail in the US. And I literally, you can look at the graphs. It's like one goes down the other Bitcoin goes up. So pain for bankers turns out to be good for Bitcoiners. Then are you joining the positivity express here? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, when people can't trust the banks so much, they start looking alternatives like this wonderful three open source technology we have where you can easily offer up your funds into Bitcoin. And then compare like with that as well, you've got all the Nostar stuff like there's so many eyes on the Nostar right now and it has Bitcoin integrated into it in the way which is, it's very, it's very natural and it shows Bitcoin people are zapping each other on Nostar and it, it works out great. Yeah, it's very awesome. So, so the, not only, um, people thinking about Bitcoin as, as the, the get out mechanism, but they're also seeing this, this great use case and lots of people who aren't additionally into Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin being used a very interesting way and then I think, well, I might have to buy myself some of that Bitcoin. All right, a lot of pressure on the magic eight ball with all this positivity around. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It is certain. The ball has spoken could not be any more clear to you. Moving on to issue two Bitcoin held on Binance surges to record high of six hundred and ninety two thousand Bitcoin. The tally has increased by more than 50,000 Bitcoin's in four weeks reversing the Exodus scene last year. Just last year it seemed like people had caught on to Binance and were taking their money off the exchange or just using it like an exchange depositing your money trading for something else. And then with drawing your money, not using it like a bank depositing more than six hundred and ninety two thousand Bitcoin and Binance Dan Eve. The question everyone wants to know, do you think Binance still has all those Bitcoin? If we tried to take them out all at once, you think they'd show up? Man, it's true. I don't use Binance but they seem to be an exchange that try and stay on the right side of transparency and sometimes they've got the safe who fund and things like that. But let's face it, which has to exchange does have all the collateral and have kept it and haven't passed it on or into other tokens and leveraged it in some other way. It's so difficult like the fact that you just can't trust and that's why we say, don't trust verify and you can't verify like Binance, I just don't trust them by default. But if you have to go on, put your coins on an exchange, do the transaction, whichever it is you need to do and then pull them off and then at least you're holding them in your own control of your own destiny. But it does seem like this could be the reason why the amount of Bitcoin is being put back in the exchange is because people may be getting ready their twitchy about a sell-off or something. Maybe they think that the UK is the ceiling for this sort of little mini-micro period. But it could also be a sign that a lot more people are eventually getting into Bitcoin and buying it, right? And it's almost like the noobs don't know about the risks of putting their coins on exchanges. So they'll buy Bitcoin and then just hold it on Binance because it's they think it's a safe place like, oh, I'm not too skilled in setting up these treasors or ledges or whatever. So I'd better just put it on Binance until I saw my private hardware out. So it could just be a stop cap. But ultimately, you just can't keep your coins on exchanges, there's FTX has shown us and all these exchanges along the way that have gone down. So I still hope that Binance doesn't fall because I think that even though Binance isn't Bitcoin, it will have a bigger impact on Bitcoin. But they could fall. So just always think about it. If you put your money in someone else's hands, it's easier for them to run off with it than it is for you to lose it yourself. With no centralized location, you can trust an exchange like Binance. It's not like they're based in the Bahamas or from Utah or anything like that. Joshua Shagallah, what do you think about Binance 50,000 new Bitcoin? Yes, wow, doesn't it? I mean, I tend to go with the default if don't trust any exchange, even Voltory, we've run since 2015 never had a hack, but don't hold your Bitcoin on the exchange. Just put it on there if you need to a trade, get it back off, put it on your treasor. There's a lot of people that day trade, so they're doing that all the time. Maybe they need to hold their Bitcoin on an exchange because that's how they're doing their trades. But I'm hoping more and more DeFi just gets better and better and we won't need centralized exchanges again anyway. And Arck, you can trust Binance? I think Josh is right there. I mean, the technology for being able to take your money out of the legacy banking infrastructure, because this is really where I think a lot of this interest is coming from, that people just don't trust banks and they want to opt out into something like Bitcoin and of course they buy an exchange and then they don't take that extra step where they then take the coins off and then put them on their own hardware wallet because maybe they're worried about it. I remember back in the down there, I think maybe on local Bitcoin, some of the UK version Bitbug, which is a popular platform back in the day in the UK, you would have an admin come in if people bought a certain amount and they would say, have you got a treasor or have you got a hardware wallet can and then they would talk you through owning your own funds and then taking control of your and I think that really these exchanges, they have a responsibility when people first start buying up Bitcoin to teach them and maybe to have some links on how to secure their own funds on their platforms. That would be the first step and then ultimately, absolutely, like if we have these decentralized exchanges and better DeFi, more hard and DeFi solutions which can compete with traditional exchanges, I think that's the ultimate sweet spot but yeah, this all goes down to just people, they trust banks, they trust Binance more than banks, they want to buy some Bitcoin but I think Binance does have a responsibility to teach people to secure their own keys. Can I just add, Lightning Network is really a really good thing about for this because it allows people to instantly grab a trade off an order book without even trusting the exchange, like you could set up the exchange in a way that you could allow people to send a Lightning Network transaction and will instantly go in at that order at that price and capture the order and then even if it's trading to some of the Shitcoin, you know, maybe keep it on there or if it's trading into Fiat but then you could then trade it back to Lightning and back out. And so the cheaper the transactions are and faster, the more people will be willing to not keep their funds on exchange but still have that liquidity in and out. Maybe, I mean, because there's some great bolts, there's a great solution for getting out to loop out on chain, we should have an extension for it in a little bit, by the way, but there's some great solutions now for, you know, maybe your risk profile on the exchange is just a couple hundred dollars and that's a lightning and that's the Toshis Dream, Toshis Dream with a payment channel was that you could do high frequency trading quickly on to an exchange and then the idea would be that then you could loop out onto on chain. So maybe more of these services providing easy ways to loop out onto on chain to your own keys is the answer. But yeah, Lightning Network is a very key part of the puzzle of having that define decentralized exchanges. Yeah, just like many startups are measured by the number of users, these exchanges are measured by the dollar amount of deposits. So it's kind of against their interest to tell people to take it off with a treasure and a ledger, not to mention the great fear of someone screwing it up and finding a way to sue you because you recommended that they buy a treasure or a ledger. Martín Wismer, what do you think about Binance and their sudden new riches? I think it's a it's a shocking. For my first reaction was do people never ever learn? I mean, we've been saying not your keys, not your coins for the past 10 years and people still, you know, they're still not listening. So, you know, maybe, maybe they deserve to lose their coins at such an exchange. I mean, it's not really an exchange. Yeah, it is an exchange. It's more like a shit coin casino. And especially as then, as then already mentioned, I mean, where are they located? And you mentioned like, people might sue the exchange. What's there to get if there have been hacked and there's nothing there? I mean, it's just irresponsible. It's not what Bitcoin is all about and it's probably, I don't know what the reason is. It's probably some dodgy earn program where they promise you Satoshi's if you deposit bitcoins. I mean, it's like not even worth the risk in most cases. The people just just buy yourself a ledger. If you're too cheap to buy a ledger, I mean, just think about how much did your girlfriend or your wife pay for their last purse? And how much is a ledger cost? It's not that expensive. It's probably a tenth of the price that overburts. So, you know, buy yourself a ledger or a treasurer or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, you know, or even one of those crappy coin kite products, but, you know, it just, just don't leave it on an exchange. I mean, how many times do we have to date? The loves are on. What do you mean? Poor coin kite. I think they're horrible, but that's a different story. But, uh, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, don't leave your coins on an exchange. It's just, it's just really bad idea. It's just bad up-sec. It's just like really why. And, and yet, maybe if you're day trading, but then, you know, then it's a hopeless case anyway. People who day trades, it's like, you know, they, they don't understand the whole idea behind Bitcoin. You buy it and you hold it. You don't start trading on emotions because that's the best way to lose your money. So, don't do that. Take it off an exchange and do it now. This technology is like very useful for gamblers, so isn't he? Want a day trade? And I think that's why in, in Kurds these days, but it is, it is gambling. Anyone who's out there who thinks they're a day trader, you just gambling. Just go, just put bets on the whole family. And it's also in the exchange's interest. The exchange's interest is not to have you buy Bitcoin and then hold it. No, this is like, you know, this is a crypto-com and and and and Binance and all the other exchanges. They're interest. They make money on the fees on every transaction. So, it is in their interest to make your buy and sell as many times as possible because that in the end is their revenue model. So, they, they, they want you to keep trading for whatever shitty mean coin is the flavor of the day or back into Bitcoin or back into whatever staking products. You know, this is not in the interest of the end user, you know, us. We, we need to like just buy and hold, but the exchange wants you to buy sell, buy sell, buy sell, buy sell. And they don't care whether you lose money because every time you buy or you sell, they make money. And this is their business model. So, they'll never try to convince you to take it off an exchange because that would mean you're not buying Shiba inu today, you know. I mean, this is this is this is their business model. They need you to buy as many shit coins as possible. Then realize that you bet on the wrong horse and change it all back. And in the meantime, they money every time you switch the coins. And at the end of the day folks, if you're going to trade with 200 x leverage for goodness sake, but your balls on the table. Yeah, it's not like I'm going to advice. The profit doubler. I agree with Martin. It's much like the casinos where you look around it. It's a really nice building and you look at crypto.com. There's sponsoring the Lakers Arena coin bases sponsoring the basketball hoops in every single NBA game. And you're like, these guys must be going broke. Like they're making nothing off fees. Like they're pulling in nothing here. I'm the winner. You know, you look at the roulette wheel and all the fancy people working there and you're like, these people are running out of money like crazy. I'm going to go home with all their money tonight. So I would like to put I would like to put caveat in there that actually are a good friend Josh Rotary over Bolto, or the Volto or exchange is a different type of exchange because in that you are switching from gold to Bitcoin. So it's less the time preference is different to the the shit coin casino. It's the option that's changed it really is down to our detriment because people buy gold and they hold it for years and they never trade again. I'm like get the shit coins on that one. Come on trade trade everyone. No, it is what it is. But the good thing is gold is ensured. And that's that was the main thing is you know, the FTIC is ensured to 250k gold. Hey, you can ensure for how much you've got in there. So it's fantastic about that. It's a real difference. And they're still working on the refund for the Mt. Gauk's bankruptcy any day now any day now any day any day any day. All right, moving on to the exit question is Binance going to run into regulatory trouble within six months two years or never Dan Eve. Two years if I think if they're closing in on Coinbase then they're going to have to they will be closing in on Binance is only a matter of time right? Joshua should call us some of compared things out how to Dr. Evil. Will he get away with it? Well, I mean Binance has been effectively and actually a good player in this space you know for a long time they they haven't been a bad actor yet. That's not to say that they won't but yeah we'll see I don't know. That's a that's a beauty about being a secret villain no one knows that you're a villain until it's too late. Yeah, ATCE was a good actor for a long time until they just disappeared. Crypto used to sponsor parks they used to give money to children. Ben Arck, do you have a finance six months two years never are they going to get in trouble? I that's not going to get in trouble. I actually think they're probably pioneers to better legislation by by challenging the regulators. I think it's a healthy kickback against the regulators and I do think there is bias there so I think they've probably got a very strong case and I hope that they don't go down because obviously people will lose money but that has been you know the behaviour of almost all exchanges in Bitcoin apart from Fautoro of course that's different type of exchange but yeah no it that has been the part of behaviour with most exchanges is they go bankrupt or they will pull or whatever else they go bust but hopefully before that happens they will reform some of the regulations or make the regulations clear in the US so other platforms can operate there easier. Martin Wishmer, are we dealing with the real dread pirate rovers? You know it's it's pretty hard to come after finance because there are nowhere and at the same time they're everywhere so my bet would be that they'll probably fold before the regulator sketch on to them and that's not because I expect them to fold I hope they will never do that but the regulators are generally quite slow so especially if it's like cross-border then not really bit powerless in a way. Spoiler for the future CZ will build a hovercraft keeping Binance free from any jurisdictional rules and if that fails Binance in space. Armed Wing announces suspension of Bitcoin fundraising. Yes we all say a sad note as Hamas is no longer accepting Bitcoin for fundraising cross it off your list. Hamas says that too many of their donors are being threatened or face trouble for donating to the alleged terrorist group. Josh Wishnagall, what do you think about Hamas no longer accepting Bitcoin? Yeah I mean I remember when when Satoshi was still around and and and Wiki Leaks wanted to accept Bitcoin and Satoshi was like oh so it's too early it'll grab too many eyeballs you know and yeah it sort of reminds me of that but hey um yeah I mean it's I just think all politicians need to stop accepting any sort of money. So whether you're an armed politician or an armed politician I don't know you're all a bunch of scumbags. I just think it makes such a big deal when a terrorist group start accepting Bitcoin they should make just as big a deal if a group stops accepting Bitcoin although in many ways this is kind of an indictment of the failure of Bitcoin privacy if people who are donating to this are being aroused by their government even if we agree with the government or we disagree with the terrorist group or alleged terrorist group Ben Arqu what do you think about Hamas no longer in the Bitcoin business? It should work this is exactly what you say Thomas right there is it's it's it's it's it's a there's a problem with Bitcoin privacy we need more privacy on Bitcoin's not finished it's not finished project we need more privacy on chain we need zero knowledge transactions on chain as the factor not like a choice you know because if you if you launch the money through a world pool or whatever then you made a choice then and people say why have you done that um yeah no it it we need more privacy on chain and and if you know it's it's it's obviously it's not it's not great their terrorist organization is using Bitcoin but they're like the fringe use cases wait it should work for them as a technology they should be able to do private transactions actually there's been a bigger moneroptic and adoption um based on this in in in the dark market scene I know there's a lot of people have been um talking about only accepting monero and not accepting Bitcoin at all because of the chain analysis the chain snitching um so yeah we need to we need to can to not think the Bitcoin is perfect that's a misnomer that's a red herring that's a dangerous path to go down it's not perfect it's a technology we still needs to be worked on and one of them in order for it to be fungible not to be actual proper like private money we we need zero knowledge on the base layer and that's some and then hopefully you know how I'm asking you's it for oh previously Bitcoin was optimized for scaling for large terrorist groups it turns out Bitcoin needs to also be optimized for privacy for more dangerous terrorist groups or more wanted groups as a joke would say martin wish mayor what do you think about Hamas they no longer want Bitcoin if you send it this uh Thomas this was such a bullshit article really if you read about it and it's like just go totally going on the sensational side of things um Hamas like in a month time got less than thirty three hundred dollars worth of donation I mean you can't even buy a single javelin rocket for that money so what kind of terrorist organization is that if they have like zero money coming in and you know the article said they went switched on to a sort of like advanced way of accepting Bitcoin you know what they just created a new address for every every donation like your treasure or hardware wallets I mean it's it's not that it's not been around for ten years or so or it's just it's just ridiculous the way they wrote it it's it's it's just makes no sense I mean they could accept lightning if they wanted to um not like suggesting anything I see I think they should use like fuck off really and just not accept Bitcoin because you know we don't want them here just like Josh said we don't want any politicians using Bitcoin Bitcoin is no political agenda so don't abuse Bitcoin but you know it's their transaction not my transaction so I can't do anything about it which is good thing by the way um because that what makes Bitcoin Bitcoin you know your keys your money you can spend it wherever you are once but uh I think Hamas just made a big mistake by just accepting on-chain transactions while they should have done lightning transactions instead and um okay they might have missed the press release moment they got it right this today but the article is just it's just bullshit and if you just look carefully in thirty three hundred dollars I mean that's why I stopped reading I think you know well okay you buy for thirty three hundred dollars like two DJI Mavic grounds maybe and then uh then what you still have to strap a grenade onto it I mean it's not really going to do much is it so no no no no no there's bad article bad bad article it's another clear problem with Bitcoin privacy everyone can see or wallet so that a respectable groups like Hamas would get dragged through the mud for only raising thirty three hundred dollars what a pathetic and poor outfit there how awful Dan Eve I still think it's good news they're not taking Bitcoin this is like we used to have all the restaurants we'd be like this restaurant takes it that restaurant now we're like we're going backwards and uh it's in the right direction for once huh well I think this is this is kind of a good article because it flies in the face of the other um you know accusations out there that Bitcoin so private it's it's perfect for terrorists to use because now it's this is flying the face now right it's it's not the reason it's a public ledger right this is the hardest thing to get into people's minds is you can literally see every transaction on it so it's actually it makes it quite easy to trace things and as Ben said it needs to be more private um and um yeah so I think it's a it's a bit of a lousy article but it's good that it kind of shows that number one like terrorists are moving away from Bitcoin well that's kind of well supposed to use a terrorist level uh moving away from Bitcoin so that's a positive thing um also that it shows that the you know that um it can't be used so easily for the various reasons because of the fact that it's traceable so if if terror if supposedly terrorists moving away from it um then um yeah then then nothing that's good for the ecosystem and and ultimately and we've judged it uh any but why why why why why do people why why are politicians allowed to just take swathes of money it's just an insane concept because that means that they're they're the money is making their decisions not like the policies and the people and the the requirements of the nation that are actually making them their decisions and I think that's just an insane thing um and you think about how much money is spent on elections each year and in each country and uh and where that money could actually how much good that money could actually do like you know it just blows my mind the you know the US is probably in the billions i'm not sure what it is in the UK um but um yeah it's it's just a sad thing so ultimately very good thing that uh that it shows that Bitcoin isn't something that can so easily be used for the various purposes so I think overall weird article but actually quite good and three and a half thousand dollars that must have literally just paid for their like they're like like I don't know that their scones and drinks right at the me at the the local me at the local me at the struck an asshole stay are you know that's down which way can't even feed people pizza with that kind of money uh for the exit question i think we're all talking about how Bitcoin is far too transparent uh what are some of the problems with this transparency that people might not have thought about like for example yesterday on the show i was watching uh one of the old uh transactions on listen to bitcoin and it was four thousand seven hundred and ninety five Bitcoin that was sent from one wallet to another and i'm betting there's only a handful of transactions that large especially with that specific number on the whole blockchain you could probably find out the exact day uh that i was listening to Bitcoin in the same way Bitcoin and all these accounts if you accidentally link them together there's just so many mistakes people could make um let's go to Joshua Sugala what do you think what what's wrong with Bitcoin privacy why should they fix it next well uh it's it's it's very very important to have privacy not if you're in a fair doing in the fairies thing there's just a normal obvious thing and we've talked about this many a time but if you run a business you don't want every customer to know where you're getting your stock from and you don't want to know how much your markup is so they'll just cut you out of the picture and you're done uh it's it's just ridiculous to try to run any business without that sort of privacy so it's definitely needed um uh and in a way lighting network and maybe Ben can lighten in lighten maybe on this but in a way from what i can see lighting network is it adds a layer of privacy because yeah there is so much uh there is a type of mixing involved in through the routing system and you could even add like pauses to sort of style style for people trying to trace you as well so um you know the layer twos get you a little bit along the way uh to adding a little bit more fungibility to to the network then our privacy for business what else yeah i i mean so like historically um any money which is good is it's fungible and then you can't have like when people mix their coins like they're they're worth less than unmixed coins because they're harder to use in the real world context um like you need fungibility in order for money to work on and if we're using bitcoin on chain then yeah then ideally you have zero knowledge you don't like cash you know like this is why her master probably just using cash uh rather than bitcoin because it's it's if people donate to her master then it's harder for those people there's no chain analysis for cash you know um let's just go all the good old fashioned police work which is much harder for for bags of cash than it is for for bitcoin um but yeah with lighting network there is more privacy in the you know the the the payments are routed through the network and then the the tour encrypted and then um you don't really there is kind of zero knowledge like you don't really know there's no real proof where the funds came from um uh the biggest issue with lighting network is the setting up of channels and the closing of channels but i think i love like a solve type route where um you can hide uh so uh setting up a channel and closing a channel looks like a regular normal bitcoin on chain transaction but i i do think that we still just need privacy on chain because the the one of the main industries in bitcoin where people actually make money is by mixing coins uh and the reason that mixing coins the majority of them like 90 you know point like two percent of them will be someone who's listened to a madale podcast that thought oh mix my coins because you know help privacy that work and then there's a 98 percent of them are people who were money laundering and that makes their coins from the fairest reasons um and then all it takes is for people to say well if you know if you if these coins don't have like a history then they're worth less than the coins which have a history and then those coins are fungible and then it's not like it's someone not a money which will work um so personally i think that we need greater privacy on chain uh and i i would prefer that over you know to like exact verify how many coins are in the bitcoin ecosystem but i know that's quite a controversial stance uh maybe um you know this is a type of a new thing in history which hasn't existed before where we have this verifiable on-chain it uh amount of of coins are show out there and then through the lightning networking through micro payments and things that's where we get our our fungibility and then we just got to just obfuscate and hide those on-chain transactions which are put in closed channels maybe that's that's how bitcoin will evolve but personally i would like to see more privacy i've always felt that way about coin mixers i'll trade you my coins used in a robbery for your coins used in a murder and uh i think they should have changed the article it should have said Hamas doesn't accept bitcoin anymore but they still accept usd have you my team whispered the card down oh so i was just going to say like having worked in like crypto companies for a number of years now as well especially on um ethereum what's interesting is that like the that there's so many companies that don't have like an address per customer so they literally they're invoice address for ethereum you can see all the other clients like literally paying into this one address and you're like this is insane then you know how like the the blockchain worked like you can see who their customers are what they're paying compared to you blind me people really don't like yeah really think about the traceability of of blockchains is is quite incredible so then that could be that they don't want to put themselves in trouble so like i just kind of think this with the the e-cash you know like the charming and stuff which is is quite popular in bitcoin now and people like well i'll have this third layer where we do the charming e-cash but then if it's a choice um where you're you're trying to have like custodial models which are blinded so you don't know what your users are using their funds for if it's a choice then the question will be from your regulatory government they'll be like well why did you choose as a custodian for your customers to be able to blind how are they transact like why didn't you have so i almost feel like that maybe they intentionally use the same address because it's easy just for accounting and they don't want to be put in a position where any regulator would say why are you trying to like hide where these funds have come from and i almost feel like that shouldn't be a choice like the short issue just be you should have to go out of your way to like make it an obvious where those funds have come from as opposed to go out of your way to try and hide those funds it should be the other way around then if if everything goes on to one pile at one of those those companies that's not good it needs a separation of user counts so you can't just throw it on one pile that's just wrong you know also for that perspective if you go to a proper exchange you'll get your own i-band number where you can transfer your own funds and at least there is some separation if you throw everything on one pile it becomes like well fdx you know where everything it was all one pile and in a way yes we would need privacy or privacy or whatever in in Bitcoin on the layer on the on the on the like the blockchain itself but that would require hey why is my focus gone that would require a bit of a fork i would imagine so i don't think it is easy to ever ever have another Bitcoin fork again because it's hard to get everybody looking in the same direction we've seen this in the past and i think the more the network matures the harder it will be to to make those changes on the other hand lightning i mean josh has well there's no chain analysis for cash but there is also no chain analysis for lightning because there is none it's not broadcasted on chain so where do you get your information from the only way they could get information is by running almost all of the routing notes or something or how do i don't know what the name is but you know that they would route all the transactions which they don't and they will never do that because that makes them part of the transaction so they're actually part of the problem in that case so i think lightning is good if people want lightning a security or privacy on Bitcoin use lightning i mean crack and exchange you can just deposit it super fast and sometimes it fails i mean you send a million sets and then it just like just bombs out sorry but you split it up in two five hundred thousand three big uh such transactions and then it will go through um so there is there's yeah i think this is a good use case for lightning even though it's never marketed as such it is bringing privacy to Bitcoin and i think this is this is really good because if it would just be a privacy feature then all the regulators will be on it like you're turning lightning use or you and now it's like no no we just want to have low fees and fast transactions well there's nothing wrong with low fees and fast transactions is that oh yes sorry it's it's a bit of a privacy thing but you know that that was not my intention i just wanted i'm just there for the fast transactions so that it's it gives it it gives it the possible then i ability i think lightning rocks and that in that that respect i think also the marketing around it was always focused not on the privacy part but on the uh the accessibility and fast transactions and like you know like lower fees and small micro payments well it was designed to do and that's all good and nobody ever mentions that there is no chain analysis niche for lightning and there is no cybertrace for lightning it's just not there and and that's that's really good because it's also good from an exchange viewpoint is it saves you all those expensive API calls to the to those you know regulatory requires the like information databases that you just they basically just just wrapping all the transactions they just want to know all the transactions and with lightning that's just not possible sorry features not working no lightning is the field. That's a very good point i think i think there's a lot yeah there's a lot there yeah i think you're right Dan Eve if you have nothing to hide why do you need this privacy why not just use bitcoin the way the government originally designed it. Well i think again people do say that right but then why do why are our wages hidden from the person next to you i mean it's something there's a few countries where they're not but like why aren't your bank why aren't your bank transactions public right why why can't i just go on amics and search for everyone's like it's an it's an insane concept that people you know wouldn't don't have any privacy at all like it's it's human nature right why why why does the government mandate all all houses to be made of glass so that people can you know can look in on you and what because you don't need privacy because you can be doing something bad in them i mean where you could you could just keep on extending that argument out to everything so i think it's it's a terrible argument ultimately of like you don't you know you don't you only need privacy if you're doing something bad because you could just apply that argument to everywhere like and yeah I mean you know like it's really that's that's just it right like why don't why have why have why don't you have see through toilet cubicles because someone could be doing something nefarious in there so we should be able to see you having a shit just in case you're doing something not like anywhere like where there's any form of privacy that you're that you're you have the right for um you know should be taken away if the argument is we shouldn't need privacy everywhere and financial transactions transactions are exactly the same thing especially because it means you can be targeted if you're like especially if you know you own a lot of Bitcoin and people people like you know you know you know you know you know you're well that's why that's why a lot of rich people hide their wealth right like not not just from a perspective of trying to like be nefarious but because they don't want to get cardiac on the way home and then put you know a gun put that to their head so yeah no we need privacy is it it is a human right privacy is a human right um and yeah and I think I think part of one of the reasons why why governments aren't using uh you know aren't warming to Bitcoin so much is because of the fact that it's a public ledger because of the fact that you know that that funds could be traced if they're used by the FBI to do something crazy right you can trace those funds just like you can trace them for amass you can trace them for um and exchange that's gone haywire or you know that and that's yeah I don't know all part all part of the fun right we need privacy people without anything to hide often have nothing to tell either so I generally steer away from those those crowds but uh regarding your no privacy on the toilets there's a south bar cap assaulted about that called the TSA the toilet seat administration and they inspect but it's uh it's their south bar you know they predict the future in a way but yeah my opinion is that like people without anything to hide have nothing to tell so I'm like not interested use me sir I need to check the AS holes and it's the one yeah it's really good that's good everybody's checking the door ticket we're not wearing a seat belt oh that's brilliant isn't it always always something to look forward to in the future uh but yes it can be very dangerous people don't think about things like lifting your accounts together maybe you don't want your religious group to know what you're buying at the sex shop or something like that there's a lot of things that people don't think about that could become obvious and immediate problems to them if suddenly all their accounts were scrolling and as Dan was describing the bank I was thinking about a fund screen where you put your card in it would have a huge letters like how much money you have in your account like little bells would go off and everyone would make clap and and then they'd rob you on the way out and you know stomp you or something still yes there is a reason for financial privacy I think uh no an ATM with a huge screen when you're when you're putting in your number everything just pops up above there so that anyone could just rob you at any time no worry it's totally fine you got nothing to hide congratulations Joe blow the stupid thing and I just don't understand how people just say the dumbest crap and it'll be like a slot machine with a big wheel of fortune on the top two I'm totally fixing it uh we're running out of time we've got to move on to the next issue moving on to issue four john Oliver joins the inverse Jim Kramer craze saying that you'd live 50 years if Kramer predicted you died tomorrow Kramer has predicted the bottom of many uh stocks he predicted bear stirons would be a fine investment and stay in business they went off the drop he predicted Facebook would be okay through all the metaverse drama they went straight off and of course he predicted recently that bitcoin would die and bitcoin went straight up uh what about mad money host Jim Kramer and his incredible ability to be wrong Ben Ark I know so little about this Jim Kramer guy but I would say that never never back ends bitcoin never say that bitcoin is going to die because you're going to be disproved like in six months it's just such a people have learned not to do that because I mean you just go look at have it your bitcoin victories so there's a website and it's this goal the time to which people said bitcoin is going to die and then yeah and then it's it's it's it's and then it's just proved within like six months so uh that's just just just bad PR um it's uh he's getting some bad social media device from it's social media gurus or whatever for putting that out there but I don't know who this dude is but he's just in a long line of people naysayers yeah who look at bitcoin is I don't know they they look at it for some some ideological lens whether like okay this is new hacker internet money you know whatever and it's just going to fail and because it's not blah blah blah and uh rather than actually looking at the technology and the the decades and decades of hard work we should eventually made us arrive at this incredible technology and we're white so I'm going to be powerful and why we're interested in it while we're why we are all interested in it um and then they just make these these split-head decisions and these these these comments on social media and then like so yeah he's just in the one one in a long line of naysayers you've been proven wrong well as an as an american I think the most important thing I could tell you about Jim Kramer he has a cable show on the financial channel like a CNBC or one of those things and he made into it he's the he's the shoutsy guy you see the shoutsy guy how are he guy oh no like a guy I got a whole act I'm gonna do here where so he predicts the stock and be like such and such a stock they're going down and then he has all these buttons and he pushed all these buttons he's like you won't believe it and what's hilarious is like people apparently are buying on this information they're buying and selling baseball and like this stock bear storms and so it's pretty much like that all the time so you have to check it out that's basically why I remember it being like so you could do that job I'm ready for I mean if they want to fire him I'll slot right in there tell people what to buy martin what do you think you predicted bear storms would be fine he said bitcoins going down and he's always very sure of himself and like venc says he's always shouting I don't want to replicate but I don't know any of those guys and I usually stay away from those Bitcoin fortune tellers I mean it's it's just pointless nobody can predict how it works and even those those dude with their technical analysis it's it's wrong you can't predict the future based on the past and even you know some people might be trading on that and they might use their all like moving averages and stuff I think it's all bullshit and the only real predictor of the price is the bitcoin bowl we have on the show it's I mean if you really look for sound investment advice follow what the bowl says and you'll be like you know you'll be driving that Lambo pretty soon Dan Eve what do you think price up price down he's like he's like he reminds me of like the the financial version of like the sports radio DJ guy from Fraser Crane with like all the sound effects and like the elaborate kind of things but like I can't really talk much because I seem to be a bit of an anti-indicator as well I'm probably like wrong about the price direction about like I don't know like 85 90 like times out of 100 and so so yeah if you trade against trade against me and you'll you'll probably make a lot of money that's for sure but there he's I think he's might more of a sensationalist kind of you know thing it's almost like it's not not like a real show it's more you know I can imagine there's there I say it's and probably I don't know if I can get sued or whatever but there's probably a few backhanders going on right you know like he's there's there's some some he knows that he can kind of try and move markets and there's probably some you know fiddling going on at that level like when that wouldn't surprise me at all probably possibly I don't know not saying there is not saying there isn't not saying you know the the the the the Schrodinger's the the Schrodinger's guess but yeah but it it it does seem to have some some some bad examples under his wing like you know praising Sam Bankman Fried and then like you know so yeah I don't know that's what makes me think there's backhanders behind it right like is yeah that's the way the markets move right you get someone who's in a big position he's got quite a following you know you can you it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy so right whilst he might have an impact on the market initially going in the direction in which he's saying overall the markets will even out and and prove them wrong in the end well you know back in the day with the radio stations they had this thing called payola where they would pay the station to play the song I wouldn't imagine it's too different with these CNBC stations allegedly but perhaps just you know look at the stock whoa whoa stock and evaluate it you know and they choose you know the evaluations as sponsors who knows we have no inside information if that's happening or not glorify it is probably just another game of glorified crypto influences ultimately right like you know all the all the news coming out that of people that took shill post you know back in back in in well say in the day they're still doing it now right it's probably the same thing happening except this you know there's probably I don't know it's just more in your face right Joshua what do you think about mad money yeah I've thought about quite often actually because he has got such a massive run of totally wrong beds and it's an it's extraordinary but what I when thinking about it it might be because he's the actual output to work in in mainstream media right so soon as it comes out of his lips mainstream is doing something and so you're very clever bots and stuff that understand that and we'll play that market against him so I don't know if he's some oracle or if he's the reason because as soon as he says something people can people pretty much know what the market's going to do so you can either like leverage it in one way or the other you know take it for your advantage if you're a clever it's just better at it than everybody else because most people that watch that guy are literally NPCs that don't really have an idea but they're like the guy said boom and they sort of do it right so it's yeah I think that's probably what's going on there an audience is still an audience right even if you have a large audience of NPCs we have a special bonus I've been able to locate a video of Jim Kramer this is called rage rage rage rage it was cut on the internet check this out Alan Greenspan told everyone to take a teaser rating and then raise the rate 17 times and Bernanke is being an academic it is no time to be an academic it is time to get on the baresteers call listen open the darn fed window he has no idea how bad it is up there he has no idea he has no idea Kramer I have talked to the heads of almost every single one of these firms in the last 72 hours and he has no idea what it's like out there not and Bill Poole has no idea what it's like out there my people have been in this game for 25 years and they're losing their jobs and these firms are going to go out of business and he's nuts they're nuts they know nothing Kramer I have not seen like this since I went five bid for a half a million shares of city group and I got hit in 1990 this is a different kind of market and the fed is asleep okay but here's the no Bill Poole is a shame he's shameful hold on hold on hold on I know you know we get credit at home document at least I read the darn thing hold on I know you're passionate I hear you but but but at the same time a lot of people are saying this is yes it there's certain types of mortgages that aren't available association of broadcasters against all of them me I am not letting up on this issue not until the merger done and the consumers and stockholders get what they want and I'll do better than Billy did in the predator I'll be more like Arnold the Alan Cart Packages are really cheap there's Alan Cart one it starts at 699 a month you get 59 premium channels from either service saving people six bucks from what they get now if they want this package which means this deal is pro consumer it will save people money Alan Cart two starts at 1499 a month you get both XM in series you get major league baseball and NFL which is why care about other than Howard Stern you effectively save 11 bucks you should probably know what you're talking about you should know what you're blocking then there's the idea that satellite TV and satellite radio are similar and since this and Echo store put weight tried to merge and the deal was blocked series the next M should be able to merge either let's go back to the tape all right so that yeah I don't know he's like a shopping channel like guys isn't he he's like he's like the normy version of Max Kaiser like so it's so so it's so I can't listen to this guy no wonder I don't know him I mean like you know it's so tiring I'm like oh why is he making such a big fuss out of all this North Americans love to shout at you on TV yeah there's definitely a thing of shouting Americans on TV the news is the same like they they talk at you they're like I would like where they just channels yeah immediately it would lead totally yeah it wouldn't give it 10 seconds and I would be on to the next channel and you would save yourself a whole lot of money and a head egg I hate to say but surely like you want to take investment advice from someone who's a bit more kind of boring instruction than like crazy shouting guy with man on the screen like man investment yeah well in fact as a other than mad bitcoins he told you to buy Bitcoin like which is a completely different story well if he done if this Jim Kermit die had done that when my Bitcoin sad then his portfolio would be I mean he would have picked real ties I think that's a good segue because you know it is the 10th anniversary here of mad bitcoins we have another special video for you coming up next now Alan Greenspan told everyone to take a teaser and that it had no intrinsic value and then Bitcoin breaks its all time high even past the one set by Mt. Gox and the Willie Box and I can tell you it is no time to be an academic get on the Bitcoin listen open the darn window there's no time for education and scholarship or teachers and institutes it is time to get on the Bitcoin call listen now open the door to Bitcoin you have no idea how good it is no idea he has no idea Maddie Maddie I talk to the heads of every single one of these firms in the last 72 hours and you have no idea how good it is out there he has no idea he has no idea none Daffy Duck has no idea Donald Duck has no idea we all stand with Scrooge I read the Christmas Carol and I thought he was shrewd I had no interest in the moral Bob Cratchett who my people have been in this game for 25 years and you have no idea what it's like out there people are making so much money they're gonna quit their jobs it's nuts it's nuts and they know nothing nothing I have not seen it like this since I went five bid for half a million shares of city group and I got hit in 1990 this is a different market and the public is a sheep they're a sleep and they should be ashamed or fleece it's shameful he ought to read the white paper at least I read the darn thing now hold on I know you're passionate and I hear you but at the same time a lot of people are saying that yes this is are certain places where Bitcoin may not yet be available so much of broadcasters against all of me I am not learning how to find the t-shirt until Bitcoin is used everywhere and no one can stop talking about it ever ever and the people get the money they want and I'll do it better than Billy did in the predator I'll be more like aren't Dutch Finnel the Alicart packages are really cheap what we have first is Alicart number one you subscribe to the whole network you get one premium you did you did you did my Bitcoin still not you have here's the world crypto network is one channel one you subscribe you get one channels worth of information and content this deal is pro consumer it will save people money now Alicart number two you get the world crypto network which is like getting xm and serious which is like major league baseball and Howard Stern and the NFL and Howard Stern's all I really care about and you get the Bitcoin group and the Bitcoin news show you effectively save 11 bucks FCC you should know what you're talking about you should know what you're blocking and then there's this idea that satellite TV and satellite radio are similar since this and at this and they were blocked then you should block this too let's go back to the tape and let's watch these two companies beat each other to the pole who really the world crypto network means lower prices to subscribers more choice and better service those are the facts let them hear the facts you heard the objections they can't stand up to the facts congress justice FCC they can't stand up to the facts let this deal go through and stop messing with the world crypto network what what what what what what what what was that what was that what was that what was that video the mud did they march the second 2017 so years ago good advice nice okay we should listen to it based in your face that was way we before I became millionaire so even if I should have taken this advice back then I'm both more I think there are people in the comments they're like this is a really good new show you should do this all the time like I I enjoyed this financial advice that you gave in this 30 seconds or whatever people I love the gurus I don't I don't remember this episode I mean I was like I was watched like most if not all of them but this one I missed it was that yeah it was um yeah I was saying now there are some people in the comments like people are getting it this guy says I had to log into coinbase and buy whatever I could just to tip you can't praise you enough fellow bit-quinter this guy says oh my god this is the best mad bitcoins of all time this is what we need to bring out the talent all time highs it was it was right after the episode we said she buy curia cards for a dollar I think yeah it's buy curia cards man they were a good deal back then but I think we're running out of time we're gonna go on to predictions or story of the week Martín Wishmer are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead we've just been busy really for the big cont20 23 we'll be showcasing one two no three different models of ATM including one that's just running our software but we haven't manufactured so if you want to get into like Bitcoin ATM just like scoop up all those second hand ATMs you can get just replace them with a little transplant and make them run on our software you'll be you'll be in business the budget so hope to see you all on big coin 2023 because within a month time it will be like fantastic event in Miami Miami I mean South Beach I don't I don't like to predict things and I know people are saying this is gonna be a down or a smaller conference is not gonna have dead mouse or deadmow or any of these large names but Martín is correct here you watch the way bitcoins going up the way bitcoin goes everyone will be parting at some kind of crazy new all-time high and it'll be a smaller conference and it'll maybe it'll be even nicer there is there it's definitely a smaller conference compared to last year I mean last year was like massive that was also one day which was more like a music festival but you know you have a thousand bitcoiners and you have a thousand different music tastes so it's like not one size fits all what they did this year they do have the industry day so if you really want to get some business done it's good to be on there on the industry day but there's no like music festival behind it but they did organize a party tickets are like separate and if you like want to like fancy fancy out you know you can get a table for you and your friends all of us just get a ticket and just a fun so if you get for the party there's definitely a party and usually every night there's like parties rooftop bars crazy parties but you know I'm I'm too old to party like that you know it's like I found that after walking on this on this trade show for an entire day I'm usually tired or my agenda is full of like business meetings and stuff so yeah so do know if you want to meet up or if you want to like contact or you want to meet up just send me a send me a message in advance so I can plan it in the agenda so that we that I'm not disappointing anyone but it would be really cool to see you all there and yes just back here are why sure it because it's gonna be really hot down there last bit coin conference we went to Martina or hang out back says and we saw Andrew Yang and Tucker Carlson yes it was just got fired finally that's a you despicable human being is throwing what how can you say the best guy ever he's like put in but he's got a new guy now he's the best he's Tucker the only anti-war guy in the world on mainstream weed media at the moment I mean I know the world sees virtual all the networks even he was on CNN MSNBC Fox news like when I think of morals and like standard beliefs that's what I think of but yeah well hello no no he's gone I'm so happy he's gone I never watched him but now he's he's gone I was like how yeah and and and he looked even worse in real life than he looks on TV I mean like you know what a despicable human being this person is like how is he just speaking he's awesome I mean he's been he's been on there for like decades I mean really it was like the just the face of Fox I mean he's been there for so long that it was like a reason to not watch the channel I know that's the only reason to watch the channel in fact now that he's gone I've blocked Fox news off of my YouTube because Fox is fucked yeah but I don't think I'll care I blocked all mainstream media last week yeah that's good yeah but Josh you're blocking all the mainstream media I was also the reason it only found out COVID was over a half year later because you didn't follow any mainstream media so nobody told you're like COVID's like history you were still down on COVID was over in 2020 I'm going on scotter play all the only one not wearing a mask in my supermarket for you yeah I'm restraining myself and rising above the fray not not falling into the argument Dan E for diction story of the week no more politics I'm gonna say something crazy like that this week or within the next month we will find out that Jim Kramer was right about something boom mind blown mind blown Joshua Gala prediction or story of the week hopefully not having to do with politics I hear still you're still muted though you're in the penalty box oh yeah yeah we actually it's a story about Voltoro that's VAU LT Voltoro we launched our savings plan so it's the ultimate DCAing plan for big coiners and precious metals so you can set up a dollar cost average system into Bitcoin into Ethereum into gold or into silver or and there's different menus so you can go like a spread of gold silver Bitcoin or just gold and silver if if you're more risk adverse or just crypto so it's really really cool super simple to set up and yeah it's really exciting about it and you can do it with euros as well now so you can go to the shipping fear would I have to make like a schedule transfer every week or every month to the Voltoro I ban and then it will automatically convert it how exactly yeah yeah you just set up a little automation and boom boom boom every you know whatever you you know DCA it's it's the ultimate way of buying Bitcoin everyone else that buys it one go either pissed off because it all goes it went down the next week and they're like oh damn it or it goes up and they're like no I shouldn't have bought more so by just like every every month or every payday putting you know 5% 1% 10% whatever you can afford to lose or a comfort not to you know have right now is you should be buying Bitcoin or something some sort of asset that's out of the banking system just get your money out of the banking system guys it's so close to collapse like the whole thing is ready the dominoes are like I just if people don't see the science with Silicon Valley bank with signature with now with this another one this other one going down yeah it's just one after the other whether it happens now or in a couple of years time it's not the point the point is the banking system is corrupt fundamentally you need to just save outside of it at least and and so that's why we've built this tool and I think it's it's really nice well very cool and people can check that out at valtoro.com Ben Arck the sky's always falling but it never does prediction or story of the week yeah I really like that Josh is there a way if I if I did like a DCA when sending funds of auto could I say that when I guess I don't know a thousand dollars or something could I is there a way of automating like out to another on chain address just so I could have like a hardware wallet and then I could use valtoro to convert fear to bitcoin and then go from just bitcoin on chain to another to my hardware while on chain address that's a really cool idea yeah automatic out as well I'll bring it up with the team let me super sweet I'd like that I'd use that totally um totally would be up for using that as well and if you could like give the valtoro your expert like the public addresses from your hardware wallet then they could like send it to a different address every time and then you don't even have to log in you just have to send money to valtoro just send it money and it will automatically yeah and then your your risk profile is like well like a thousand dollars or five hundred dollars or whatever you want it to be I would be like shut up and take my money I would just keep sending all the fear to that to that to the bank account number and then watch the stats flow in yeah absolutely cool awesome thanks for feedback yeah um I've really got stories of the week everyone's just working really hard with just building things um no no real story of the week just yeah just just building shit but yeah I love that valtoro it's cool oh after I've to check that app on my phone see if I can get Snoop Dogg to say something about Noster for you yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Noster's really great we've had it we've had an uptick in the shop so we've got shop that EllenBits.com where we saw like hardware gizmos and um uh because I own nostar.com I feel like I'm allowed to put a little link to our shop on nostar.com so you've had a massive uptick in the shop and it's for the nostar signing device so it's the the hardware signing device where you can have your private key on the signing device supposed to actually store in your local storage on your browser so that's kind of cool but I mean that was over the last couple of weeks it's not really this week but it's that hardware signing device I can vouch for that that's really cool device I ordered two of them and the reason you know like and you you don't want to use your private key or any app you just want to use like you know this this this plug-in and then you show hardware device to um to enter the key and why I wanted to use them because if you use Noster for like a company or you use it for like a group of people that will manage the social media presence of like you know company for example then you don't want to give out this private key you want to put the private key in the hardware device and then just make sure that the hardware device a focus what the fuck I look but you want to use the hardware device and then everybody in the office can just grab the hardware device post on Noster without actually knowing this private key so should you ever have to fire anyone then you can still be sure that they won't take the Noster that's the reason I bought two of them and I think it works very well in in that way and it's easy to set up shipping as fast from the Ellenbid shop and yeah just if you if you if you're not on one of those devices then you're not really serious about Noster in my opinion likes likes what I do think it's definitely going to be a problem people copying and pasting their private key in and if your private key is ever exposed you lose your Twitter account essentially forever so yeah I do think they need Ben's little device but we're running out of time just a reminder for everyone to check out madbidcoins.com or the world crypto network and check out the madbidcoins 10th anniversary special I went back and watch some of the old episodes as Dan was saying it's neat to see the intro and the outro to the show form and kind of the format listeners of the early show and the true madness and whackingness and then how it became kind of more formatted news show but you can check that out madbidcoins.com and thanks to everybody for joining us today giving us a thumbs up and subscribe down below until next time