#306 — The Bitcoin Group #306 - Market Crashes - Margin Call - Bond Bombs - BIP 119

The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Ben Arck from LNBITS. Welcome back to Don Charinesz arrays and PC- Zelda theme. crypto network, moving on to issue one. Issue one Bitcoin drops below 36,000 amid broader market sell-off. Bitcoin prices fell less than 10% Friday all the way to 35,917. The moves follow a painful day on Wall Street, which saw the blue chip Dow Jones industrial average lose more than 1,000 points as the tech-heavy Nasdaq also fell 5%, both losses marked the worst single-day drop since 2020 and followed big rallies in the previous session. The Dow and Nasdaq fell again on Friday. Is this it for Bitcoin? We've linked up with the stock market and forever more when the stocks go down, the Bitcoin goes down. Ben Ark, is there anything different about Bitcoin today that wasn't there yesterday? I don't think there is some correlation with the stock market obviously and that's something which can help pull the price down. But I know there's a lot of investment going into Bitcoin and Bitcoin projects currently, but then there's good things which are happening like countries adopting and whatever. But I just think the market is just bearish. It's just going down. We need to bleed out. I can imagine it's hitting 10,000 pounds or something. I can imagine we're not quite no one's at the point yet where they're thoroughly miserable and they don't even want to talk about the Friday. I keep seeing these little tweets of people saying, oh, the price is going to go back up now. When we get to that point where we think the price is never going to go back up, we don't want to talk about the price. That's usually where we hit the bottom and then we go up from there. There's some pretty bad news. With the Al-Savador stuff, it's something we talk about a little bit later on, but we had a lot of hope for that experiment. It doesn't seem to be working because of the volatility of Bitcoin price and Bitcoin price going down. I think that's just kind of a bad atmosphere for Bitcoin. It's been used by the Ukrainians and the Russians and it's been adopted in the African Republic and all this other stuff. But which is great, but I just feel like the market's barrage is going down, but it's also barrage about stocks and shares as well. I'm not sure there's 100% of correlation there because before we've detached from markets and I imagine that probably will happen again at some point. I just think just generally there's barrishness within traders and in the markets. As much as people like to say they don't care about the price, it does kind of affect the weather in the room. Everyone's barrish. It's gloomy and gray and sad. When it's going up, everyone's happy. They made money yesterday. Now people are starting to say things like buildle again. Dan Eave, is this the end of the world? Henny Penny, the sky is falling. That's it. Let's pack the ball away we're going to name more football, no more Bitcoin. Obviously the general market's, they're on a bit. They've been on a ball run until the end of 2021. The NASDAQ hit all-time high on the 90th of November and that's been in a steady decline since then. We're going to be trailing in some of that path, but it's only 25% down from all-time high. I definitely agree with what Ben is saying about. It's not painful. It's not like it's not shitting yourself, like price yet. That feeling of when in 2019, Bitcoin was circling around 3K. I think it went 50% down from 6K in a matter of a week or so. Everyone was like, oh no, this is the end of my own different. Everyone's ringing each other up and saying they're good but no. It wasn't that bad, but it felt like that inside. Bitcoin now isn't the 19.5K all-time high of 2017. Back then it went down to the 3K so that's like an 85% drop. So 85% drop from the recent all-time high would take us down to 10K. That would, yes, Ben, I think, spawn the money there. But then also it's true about the investment that keeps going into Bitcoin. You've got all these banks that are coming out, these institutions that are coming out and buying up Bitcoin or selling up Bitcoin services, infrastructures, as usual, growing daily. What is also growing even to reaching an all-time high on the second of May is the hash rate of Bitcoin, which hit 250 exerhashes on the second of May, which is incredible. Now it's inflating about 220, which is still, again, it's just explosive mining power and security, but there's supporting Bitcoin. So, yeah, it was the price isn't enjoying, isn't being enjoyed right now. Everything else that Bitcoin builds is being enjoyed. There's talk of recession and Bitcoin was born after a recession. So it was built for coming out of recessions. And so it's interesting to see how it fares, the price fares through an actual recession. All right, forced prediction. I want to judge the bearishness of this panel. We're going to start with Ben. Just give me a yes or no. Will Bitcoin hit 10K? Ben? Ben? I think pounds, I'm not sure about those, but I think pounds, yeah. Dan Eve, pounds or dollars? No, I reckon about, oh, I don't know. Yeah, fuck it. I'm on me. Two of them. I think it could be crazy. Martin Wishmer, are we going to 10K? Yes or no? I don't see that happen. I think that's what I'm saying. Joshua Sagalla, 10K. That's why I don't know where this comes from. This magical number 85% has to go down. Oh, well, we'll see if it happens. We're on the record now. It is sealed. Martin Wishmer, should we give up? Should we take our ball and go home? There's just no more joy in Bitcoin? I'm not too worried about it. It's this correlation with the stock market is a bit strange. As we've seen in NASDAQ, I think we haven't had such a bad day since 2020, early 2020. So, I don't understand why it's linked to stocks or risk on assets. Bitcoin is considered a risk off asset. So you'd think that it's just the opposite. But, no, it's... NASDAQ goes down, Bitcoin goes down. But the thing is, many of those stocks, zombie stocks, when still went up during the pandemic, like for example, hurts. They went up like crazy. No car was rented out because of stay at home orders. So it made no sense whatsoever. So I'm happy with Bitcoin investment. I still think it's a good investment, maybe not for the short term, but definitely for the long term. Because the stock market is just heavily manipulated by the Fed, just putting out news like, oh, we'll raise the interest rates. Bang! There goes the stock market. But with Bitcoin, you can ban it so many times China and Russia and whatever. And then that's it. Eventually, it's just the honey badger doesn't care. So no, I'm not too worried. Thomas. I think it's all about that dirty trader money. We wanted it so bad. Now it's here. And it makes us go up and down like crazy because the traders don't know the fundamentals of Bitcoin. They're not aware that there's only 21 million units and that the programmers won't ever let there be more. They think, oh, there's always more or something. And it's not a normal stock. And once you sell your Bitcoin, you rarely, if never, get it back. But they're going to learn that over time. We have to give them the curve. Joshua Sagala, it's raining outside. Everyone says we should go home. We're linked to the stock market. Inflations here, but that's not helping either. What's wrong with the price of Bitcoin? Yeah. I mean, anyone new coming into this market, usually what I tell them is, you have to treat it like marijuana stocks. You've got to buy high and sell higher. Really, that's how you do it. But no, look, it's a pretty weird, crazy day for anyone that's new and anyone that's old, it's like, this is what crypto does. This is what Bitcoin does. It goes up and down. So don't worry about it. Buy more. The weird thing is that when I think I've said it on the show before, but if someone goes on sale, like some genes that you've been keeping your eye on, or some shoes or something, you go in there and you're like, I'm going to buy them. It's on sales, like 20% off. I'm going to buy it now. But somehow with stocks or investment vehicles, a lot of people get scared when it drops. And they're like, oh, no, no, it's losing value. I'm not going to, oh, no. And the other way, when the shop might go 20, these shoes are now 20% more, it's like everyone's going to buy it now. So I tend to try to tell people to like, imagine investment vehicles like this, or Bitcoin, or gold, or stocks, to be like a commodity, like something you're buying. Look for when it's down. Look when it's on sale and decide for yourself where the fund if it has fundamental value, where the fundamental value lies with Bitcoin only having 21 million units. Really, the fundamental value lies it like in the millions of dollars. So if you are looking for an entry point, I'd say cross, you know, average buy in. And, and yeah, enjoy the ride. Well, especially for people who have been in Bitcoin a long time, it's hard to be sad and depressed at a $35,000 price. Even $10,000 you guys were talking about earlier, which would be, you know, honey penny, this guy's falling the end of the world. It's not 3K. It's not even 1200. It used to be $300. So it still seems like a lot of money if you've been in it long enough. And if you're, if this is your first crash, welcome to Bitcoin. And if you stay around an average of five years, you always make money because of the haveings. So I think more and more like we were saying in the chat, we were starting to count down, you know, over at the halfway point to the haveing another two years or so. And the reduction of Bitcoin being produced will cause people again to realize that the issuance of this stock is not like Tesla. When Tesla got more popular, they split the stock. They made more of it. When Bitcoin gets more popular, there's less all the time anyway, because it's on a predetermined schedule, because it's kind of got this libertarian money thing coated into it. And that's where a lot of this come from, this idea is so. You know, the thing to really look out for, where you know when you're in a bear market, when people start posting, you know, the sort of hot lines on on Reddit and stuff, which, which you know, it's not, it's really not funny, Martin, it's not funny, man. Like, it's funny. But, you know, and people will post it, man, from like five bucks down to one buck. And if you think, oh, wow, but five bucks, that's a massive drop. Five bucks down to one buck is a huge shock. Thirty bucks down to one buck. That's happened. You know, it's, so you got to think in percentages, percentage wise. And this is why people say Bitcoin would come less volatile over years, because of the fact that the in percentage wise, it's harder, the bigger it is, the harder it is to fall larger percentages. But yeah, just stay in there, definitely start build. If you're into Bitcoin or crypto, build something, build something cool, add to the community, add to the ecosystem, tell your local store to accept lightning. This is the time. And especially for people that aren't in Bitcoin, they're like, oh, it's so easy to make money in Bitcoin. Oh, all I would do is I would have bought it and I would have held the whole time. Well, here we are. We're down out of 50% plus something like that. And everyone's like, why didn't you sell before? Why didn't you sell when it was up or on the way down? And it's all about not knowing when it's going to go up. I don't know when it's going to go up. I don't know when it's going to go down. I do know there's a limited number of units at 21 million. And if you can get yourself one of those, that's pretty awesome. I know something that will go up or that does know though, the magic eight ball. I don't know where it is though. We've got the perfect thing. Well, we're going to have you guys predict anyway. But yeah, we're in an absolute Indiana Jones type situation where the match gateball is at a time like this. You know, when we need it so much. But I think we have to rely on web pages like is Bitcoin dead? And you can check that. It says no. And there's another web page. I think it's like, is it time to sell Bitcoin? I think it also says no. So it doesn't ever change though. But that's the that's internet humor for you. All right. To the exit question, we're pretty down right now. Ben and Dan are super bears. Martin and Joshua with me were positive about Bitcoin not giving us up yet. But next week's another story, the stocks went down again today. Of course, it's Friday for them so they can take the weekend off. Latina Bitcoin will still be their trading. Ben Ark will go up or down. Down catastrophically will be a little bit sadder next week. They're going to knock the spring out of our step. Dan, Eve, up or down higher or lower. Or bearish depressiveness from this left side of the panel. Okay, Martin right side of the panel. Tell me something nice about Bitcoin. We're going up or down. I don't expect any major changes. But it will take a little bit more time before we go up again. Still 21 million units. Josh Shagalla. The thing is like things generally they consolidate either in price or they consolidate with time. And we've seen a lot of consolidation time for a long time, meaning that it goes sideways. You know, when you have a huge run up, we had like 60k. You know, we've come down. But it's been consolidating sideways for so long now that this is just part of the sideways. And I feel a little go back up to match that sideways action. We'll just keep on going sideways. And then it'll eventually start heading back up. So it's my prediction. I'm going to go with a push. The worst of all answers. If the stock market goes down, then Bitcoin will go down as well. There you go. So now all you have to do is go predict the whole stock market. Piece of cake. Speaking of people who can predict the whole stock market, issue two micro strategy margin call. If micro strategy is margin called and the price of Bitcoin hits $21,000, the company might have to give back their Bitcoin. The event we've talked about for so long is finally here. It's not the board and the angry company at Sailor's door just yet. Right now it's simple mathematics. The company has been borrowing millions of dollars from banks to buy more Bitcoin. They've been using their existing Bitcoin as collateral for the loan. They say they still have some other Bitcoin that they could use to maybe bail out their loan. There's even been talks of micro strategy providing a floor for Bitcoin by buying so much currency, marketing people back to pay coin and their legendary $20 floor. But if the price hits $21,000, interesting things will happen for micro strategy. Dan Eve is Michael Sailor in trouble. Have they borrowed too much and bought Bitcoin too late. Well, it seems like micro strategy share prices had a bit of a tumble as well recently. It's down 50% since they started publicly announcing buying Bitcoin in August. It reached a higher than the 2021 of $860. It's actually about 66% down from all time high. But $21, obviously, is quite low and it's what's 40% down from where we are now. There's still quite a big drop. He's got quite a big following in terms of he can build an army of other investors and try and build this floor. That would be really cool. $21,000 is also it's quite an important number as well as opposed to the 21. Maybe he planned it that way. He planned his own demise, Nostradarmist style. I don't know. But yeah, I think micro strategy as a company is feeling the hit right now, obviously, the being hit by the Bitcoin price. I wonder if there's anything as well as having this spare uncollateralized Bitcoin. If there's anything they can do with the shares by diluting shares in order to raise more funds to hold the Bitcoin, there's various other little share price tricks of the trade they can do. All he needs to do is I think he's just looking for the list now. There's about three or four recommended art recommended YouTube shows right now where it seems like he's doing an Ethereum giveaway. So maybe he can he's doing these as a giant scam and he's getting some compensation for when Bitcoin does fall. So he's reaping a load of Ethereum from gullible YouTubers. But yeah, ultimately it would be very bad and I don't want to see Bitcoin hit in 2021k, definitely not 10k. So I don't know, maybe even I'm sure we'll get onto it later at some point than in the show, but the Twitter takeover is also going to provide a safety net with Elon Musk being a bit more open to crypto shilling on Twitter. Maybe that's going to provide a bit more of a social rocket behind the Bitcoin price and summoning the price demons to take us back up to the all-time highs again. I think they're going to have a problem. A lot of those tricks that they're doing only work when the market's going up not when it's going down when it's going up. You're a big winner and you can spread out your wins and get some more bets when it's going down. They're more like you're a big loser on your way to cratering. So it's not that love. And I've really got to wonder how this all looks from the outside from the outside. A company buys Bitcoin Bitcoin goes down the companies in trouble and to preview our next story just a little bit. A country buys Bitcoin goes down and then the countries in trouble. So not good for Bitcoin. Obviously as Bitcoin insiders and believers and such, we stick with the coin. But from the outside, they must be cackling and laughing. And this is a big down. But obviously they probably have their money in the stock market. It says not that funny either. Martine Wishmare, what about micro strategy? Did they buy too much and maybe too late? Well, it will still need a considerable dive of the Bitcoin price to hit 21k. So I'm not too worried. On the other hand, we always tell people like don't use money that you might need within four years. Also implies that don't borrow money to buy Bitcoin. I mean, that's just that's really pushing it. And there is like a mega bull in that respect. But you know, he's taking a risk. I don't think it will be liquid. Or he'll get a more margin call though. On the other hand, if people can manipulate a price, maybe they just want to shut him up. And if they can manipulate price then, you know, 21, 20, you know, it is. But I hope for him and also for a Salvador that won't be the case. On the other hand, if it does, it's a good buying opportunity for the rest of us. Now, obviously like everybody else, I love the stuff he says on Twitter. But it would have been better in 2013 or 2015 or 2017. Where was he then? Did Michael Saylor not know about Bitcoin? Did he not analyze it? Why wait so long? Josh Tagala, don't you think the company waited so long to go Bitcoin crazy? This kind of insane Bitcoin strategy. If they tried it at a dollar or $10 or $100 and then held for even a year, you know, this would have been unspeakable that the idea of them losing money. But by getting in so late and then by getting in so large, have they exposed themselves? Will they survive? Yeah, I mean, you know, back then they couldn't have banks wouldn't have lent them any money against that weird internet strange fake, you know, wizard money. But, um, but, you know, I think look, Saylor's a businessman, he's very sophisticated Wall Street guy. He understands the risks of going leverage and going super long, especially on a volatile asset like Bitcoin. So he might truly understand the value long term. And I'm sure he wouldn't like, he would have taken in consideration that we could hit 21,000, especially up at 36. So, personally, I don't think we're going to get anywhere near that. I think we've consolidated sideways so long that we're not going to go down that much. But, um, but it's definitely something he should look into. I'm sure that another bank will lend him something to cover his position or something will happen. But if it doesn't, then he liquidates and some people will buy Bitcoin cheap off of him and the life goes on. I don't quite, quite honestly, you know, have a soft spot mark for the guy or anything. I, he's made a cold heart decision to leverage long on this stuff if he gets liquidated. We've all lost money in this game at some stage, made bad calls. And that's just what happens. Whether it's if you've trusted the wrong exchange or if you've gone leveraged like crazy, it's all, it's happened to most people in this game. So it'll just be Michael's epic version of this and is what it is. Bitcoin will just keep on going. Martin, God. Thomas, I think there's a simple reason for why you said, why is that he joined so late? Why is Michael's sailor so late to the party? Well, it's because the nature of what Bitcoin is to people has changed considerably over the years. You know, 2013, well, 2011, it was a bit like, you know, proof of concept. 2012, it was like dark market money. 2013, it was sort of like a pal like nerd money. And only after Bitcoin hits one trillion dollar market cap, then it became only then it became interesting for like large players like Michael's sailor to actually go in because if he would have gone in earlier, this market wasn't too shallow. And anything happening then would cause weird fluctuations in the price. And basically, because it was so shallow, it would have been impossible to liquidate assets at the late stage when the price would go up, would have gone up. So this is why I think many larger investors are only now looking at it because even if they knew about it back then, before it had a one trillion dollar market cap, it was just not interesting for a type of volume that they handle on a daily basis. I could definitely see that. I could also see what Josh is saying, his tools wouldn't work there. He couldn't get money from bankers to do it. He couldn't route it through an exchange. If he wanted to like in the old days, if you want to buy, I don't know, 1000 Bitcoins, 10,000 Bitcoins, you'd wreck the exchange, right? No exchange is there that's capable of serving your order. If it showed up in the order book, it'd be a complete nightmare. I could see a lot of that and that they had to wait till it was a more mature environment. They would have practically had to go door to door to get the Bitcoins or made direct deals with the miners or something like that, which still doesn't seem that difficult or impossible, but again, they'd lose a lot of their superpowers. They'd lose a lot of their investing strength. Ben Ark, what do you think is micro strategy and trouble? When did we start rooting for these crazy gamblers? He's got leverage. He's telling everyone on the internet, don't sell your Bitcoin, but use them as collateral for risky loans. Is this like loan or something? Is this a new thing? I think it's bullish because Michael Stacking-Sailer and his FastStacks is $5 billion worth of Bitcoin, which is locked up, and then all the other investors he's encouraging to buy Bitcoin, to keep buying more Bitcoin and try and create this feedback. Even he can't talk the price round. And that's good because we want that. We want someone with that much influence and that much capital to not be able to affect the price just by talking. It's bullish that he can't move the price. I mean, they're still doing well, though. I think the average price for Bitcoin, which they bought, would put their stash at $4 billion, and then the actual price of their stash is $5 billion. They're still a billion in. That's not bad. But as I said, I'm quite bearish, and I think they're going to have to do the margin calls at $21K, so that will happen. But then they have got the uncollateralized Bitcoin, and this is that feedback loop see, which we can get us down to $10K, because all that stuff happens. All these investment portfolios fail, and they dump their Bitcoin just to say solvent enough that they don't go completely bankrupt. And then that just floods the market. The price goes, everyone's Bitcoin's dead, and then we hit that ground where we're thoroughly miserable, the price can go back up. But yeah, it's bullish ultimately, that sailor can't get talked the price round. It's good. We're going to start calling you Ben the Bear. It's looking bad, man. Depressing. No, I can see what you're saying, though. If he does hit $21, it'll definitely, it could cascade down to $10, just because of the negative news, all the positive stuff that was put into micro strategy, all the time we spent retweeting all those cool quotes that he kept putting out. And the way he was shoving it to those bankers, that all rolls back. And then while Ben's, while we're giving Ben crap for being bearish, Martin and I are over here saying it's not going to rise till the halvings. So we're like two-year bears. So it's just a lot of bearishness going on here. Meanwhile, the halvings pretty accurate, isn't it? It's a kit low, and then for us to stay low for a while. And then the halving use kicks in, and that's when we start going back up. I like the halving called because it's just so easy. The amount of units being produced goes down. The price of Bitcoin goes up. I feel like I'm plan B or some kind of genius. I invented this thing, but it's just like, it's the way it's designed people. If you do any kind of small reading about Bitcoin, it's like, what the heck is this structure? How are you deciding when to print the money? Is it like a Twitter poll? No, no, it goes down. The amount of money being produced in Bitcoin goes down. So I don't know, we said it a lot, but I don't think people are getting it. Exit question, Ben's already a big yes. Do you think that micro strategy will get margined called Dan Eve? I think they've got tricks up this leaf. I think they'll stay out of it with the uncollateralized in Bitcoin they have and potential to kind of dilute the shares or something with micro strategy. I think we'll see another great bear whale type explosion of artwork. If the corporations and the businesses keep the price of Bitcoin above 21,000, it dips. It goes like 21,000 and a dollar or something. It's just on the line. If it goes anymore, we lose it all. We got to back that up. Again, just as soon as they said this, as soon as this article came out, just like Paycoin with a $20 floor, when it came out, I was like, all you're asking is for someone with too much money to come in and wreck your market. It's just too much fun. Can you imagine if you had enough money to short Bitcoin down to 20,000 just for kicks to ruin micro strategy just for the fun of it because it's a number. It's like, oh, it's so it's just like I watched the documentary about the GameStop thing. It was the same kind of thing. They saw all those shorts on the stack and they're like, we could wreck all these shorts. And they told the internet and the internet was like, that sounds like fun. Racking Wall Street shorts sounds like fun. Now everybody here likes micro strategy. We say nice things and stuff, but still, if you were a bad ass dude with a billion dollars looking for fun, oh, I don't know how much you would take it. You know, the around you. As one of the set as well as all that, you've got you've got that spy Elon Musk buying Twitter. So you can like push his own shit coin or dogecoin or something. And that'll be another nail in the coffin of Bitcoin as it makes its descent down to 10k. Yeah, screwed. I love that. I hope they do it though. I hope they use Dogecoin for tipping and they overload the network and they have a scaling problem on Dogecoin. And they're like, what are we going to do? And I was like, well, how'd you make a lightning network like Bitcoin doesn't say, why are we doing this twice? Like Elon Musk, why are we doing this twice just for the roles? Because it had a funny dog on it. Like, I know Jackson, but like, come on, man, why are we doing this? This is why he's working for the US and he's trying to kill Bitcoin. Sense. Wow. And he's a robot sent back from the future. Okay, we talked to Dan, Martin Wishmer, will we hit $21,000? Will micro strategy get margined called? Don't count on it. Don't count on it. We'll see it go up and down, but 21. It's pretty low. I really don't think so. If it happens, it will only be for the brief moments. But I don't think we'll have such an buying opportunity anymore. Josh, should go to 21,000 just to break micro strategy for nothing else? I mean, that could definitely happen in terms of for the roles. But I don't think so. I think it'll be fine. It's never too late to update all those Michael Sala graphics to the guy on Monopoly with his pockets pulled out and he's all sad and bankrupt. And we're like, yeah, that's the game of Monopoly. Sometimes you know, you're on top with the top head other times just goes down. Say they got mutiny. It's never too late. We'll see how it goes. Check out WCN clips where we now have 102 subscribers. 103 could be you. Just Google WCN clips. Check out our new cool headlines. His Bitcoin winning over other crypto cryptos Central African Republic adopts Bitcoin as legal tender. Goldman Sachs offers Bitcoin backed loans. These are great little clips of the show that you can share with your friends. Give them thumbs up. Put comments down there. It's like a whole nother channel with just clips of the show. WCN clips. Google that in the link below all that stuff. Moving on to issue three. L Salvador's Bitcoin bond reportedly doesn't have a single investor and markets are already bracing for a default on their conventional debt. Yes, it's time for more. I told you so from the international community and especially some gofying and joy from the international monetary fund. Bekele is seeking one billion dollars for a crypto backed bond part of which includes the idea to buy Bitcoin, which looks pretty bad right now. It's a little mini micro strategy. And instead of receiving financing, he's received nothing but skepticism and anger the IMF speaking out against his idea. Others saying that it will never work. And now because the price is down, maybe they're right. Let's see. Josh Tagalog. Do you want to go first on this one? Is L Salvador's Bitcoin volcano bond in trouble? Will this take down the whole country? Maybe even the president's last dictator. Yeah, I mean, for me, it's been a sweet. I was really rooting for the guy for that to work. The trouble is that you hear all these stories about projects raising a billion dollars like this. That's what happened with EAS. They raised $4 billion back then in 2017. But they had a really big speculative upswing that people were betting on. Dan Larimer on board. He had all this Bitcoin OG that knew, so the cryptographers, interesting people. Bekele and his Bitcoin bond, yeah, you might have Adam Back on board, who's building the bond through the block stream guys and stuff. I don't know if Adam had him on board or anything. But the thing is for the normie, for the retail investor, I don't know why I would buy that. I don't know why I would take part in the Bitcoin bond. What is it? What is it? I don't understand it. And I've read a bunch of stuff about it. And it seems to be like no one understood what it meant. Where's the upswing? Is it from taxpayers paying money back to it? Then most big coin is like I don't want your taxpayer dirty money because it's most big coin is taxation is theft. So they won't resonate with that. Although Bitcoin's a lot bigger than the high-colontern that is. I don't know where was the value prop in that idea? That was what stuck with me. It was kind of difficult to understand. And maybe someone in the chat can can let me know where the value proposition was. Where was the upside? Where was the moon in that speculation? I don't think you're going to find it. I think that was one of the real problems is when they announced it and they said, well, it's half government spending and it's half we're going to buy Bitcoin for ourselves. And that Bitcoin will return value for it. And I was like, well, why don't I just buy Bitcoin myself? Yeah. Really it was right there. I get 100% of the Bitcoin. Or I get 50% of the Bitcoin in the other half in building a new city next to a volcano or something. That's not it's not a great real estate transaction. It's not like you have some land, man hat and island or something. My brother had a building in Palmer and the volcano literally destroyed the building. Blue house. We know our front like don't build houses on volcano. But yeah, it's that was just months ago. Like that was right. News everyone knew about Palma and about volcanoes in general. They're destructive power. And yes, they're don't their dormant ones and so forth. And they could get power from them. But it was kind of like if you could get power from a volcano, why aren't you doing that already? And why don't you use the 50% of the money you put in Bitcoin to get the power faster something build thing faster? I don't know. Yeah. So I mean, I would have liked to see a more stronger returns case for the investors to understand what it is. And I would have liked to see more on the retail front. I think they could have crowdsourced if they didn't have this big lofty goal of a billion. If they just said we've got this many, you know, just I see pretty much I see it. It would have been really interesting to see what would happen there. But even that didn't really have a use. I don't know. It's a really tricky game. They have a lot of power, meaning they have the power of taxation in a country. And it would have been interesting to see the mechanics of tokenized assets playing together with all that stuff. But yeah, for me as an old school libertarian slash an aga capitalist type, I don't like taxation. I think just let markets be a little bit more free. And what's with your bond? I don't get it. Well, I know it in my knower that Dr. Rooja's got a spreadsheet and she's going to double our one core final member. So if only he had had that spreadsheet technology, unfortunately all he had was backwards hat technology and it doesn't look like it's going to work. Martine Wishmare, the Bitcoin of Alcano bond is in tatters. El Salvador is in question. A lot of people look like idiots, but no one here. What about El Salvador? Are they going to make anybody buy this bond? Yeah. And you the from a retail perspective. I don't I don't see the points as George pointed out. Why not just buy Bitcoin instead? And I couldn't figure out either what the whole thing was. I read somewhere six and a half percent return on the bonds at mutuality. I mean, six and a half percent. Yes, it's better than my bank account, but it is a risky investment. Six and a half percent wouldn't cut it in my opinion. Besides, why not just buy Bitcoin? From what I understood, this was more for companies and institutions that are not allowed to directly invest in Bitcoin. So therefore they could buy these bonds and that would really like you know, spur interest. But does it because there's still the whole trust thing and it's just better to buy Bitcoin? Well, I think they're extremely bullish and the fact that they are trying to abolish the dependency on the US dollar. So I do give them props on that and I don't think it's all over yet. But maybe there's a different ICO type of approach where we would have been more successful. Yeah. And also in this piece of land where they're going to build Bitcoin city, there's like in the middle of nowhere, you know, why not fix like Ben already mentioned in the previous show? Why not fix some Salvador and turn it into a little paradise with your billion dollar investment? That makes far more sense than trying to build something new from scratch. This has been done over and over again in the history. I believe Nigeria at one point just moved to the capital in Argentina or Brazil. They did that too. They built Brazil and in the middle of the jungle and it took decades before it became anything worthwhile visiting anyway. So no, no, no, sorry Najib, I'm not buying your bonds, but I do support your Bitcoin plans. They turned their hats around. They came up with a plan and then they also created their own wallet. Ben, Ark, have you seen this recent article? It said most Salvadorians have already ditched their national Bitcoin wallets. Those who stayed on the Chivo app are not using it for what it was intended, using it instead to keep their dollars safe rather than their crypto. We've talked about this before. It seems like it was a pretty clear plan to not actually have the trouble of giving everyone $30 in Bitcoin. It's a lot better if you can give them a link or an account or something. So obviously you'd make your own wallets. You wouldn't have to give out that Bitcoin. I know how frustrating it is when you give people Bitcoin for a costume contest or something and they never move the Bitcoin. It stays there in the wallet. Obviously, El Salvador didn't have that problem. But Ben, do you think they designed this thing wrong? Did it was it a design failure? How they were going to get this country to accept Bitcoin? What went wrong? Was it the wallet that lost the trust? Was it the country wasn't technology enough? They weren't ready? You have these desktop politicians and these El Salvador's historically being run by these three families. They're just trying to take it in turns to be president or whatever. But Kelly is just one of those. Obviously, his brother and whatnot. Then they're playing CEO, but Kelly calls himself CEO on Twitter, the CEO of El Salvador. That's what he thinks. He thinks he's CEO and he gets up and he does his announcement. The Bitcoin bond, the Bitcoin city, and the next to a mountain, and the next to a volcano, it's going to be great. It's kind of hard for lots of businesses to fail before they get to that point where they have a successful CEO and a successful company and then successful products. Why some politician who just is cosplaying would be able to create something which actually has value and is going to be received by Marcus as having value. It's beyond me. It's the same with the cheaper wallet. The cheaper wallet was predominantly owned by the Kelly's brother. It's an in-house job. Then obviously, it's all about control and actually giving people the Bitcoin in the first place. It's going to be crap. I know the company which was responsible for actually on the liquidity side and they had, so say if you made a Bitcoin transaction over Lightning with the cheaper wallet, it wouldn't register that the transaction had settled, for the person receiving the Bitcoin. It's the worst experience if you pay for something and then it's gone from your wallet, but the person who doesn't say that it's perceived the Bitcoin, well that was an endpoint, like a webhawk which was being fired back to cheaper wallet from the liquidity provider. And for some reason, they just blocked it because they were just idiots and they didn't know what they were doing. It's just going to be the social likes of San Salvador, the youngsters who were playing cosplay at being Silicon Valley bros. The reality is, he just marketed and shilled the companies and the investment and the people who were setting up shop, a really interesting setting up shop in our San Salvador, in San Salvador. And then Martin said, I sound like a broken record. Had he just told about an investor some of that money into San Salvador and building that's a location. There would have been fantastic. It could have been the new Silicon Valley of Central America, particularly with Venezuela having such a bad time at the moment, like for the Central South of America, it's like Venezuela is like the California. It was historically and a lot of them were very heartbroken by that being lost and San Salvador could have become that. But it's just a cost playing of CEO and then doing this big announcement and this Bitcoin bond thing. And I think the luxury maybe, they had to hand shoulder some of the blame here because they're selling this government a product. I see some amounts now left block stream and he was like spearheading this Bitcoin bond thing. It's been incredibly unsuccessful and not one investor. So if you're building a product, if you're rich Bitcoiners and evolving the Bitcoin space and you have a lot of capital yourself and then you're building a product to allow investors to buy a part of this Bitcoin bond and then you yourself don't buy anything or buy anything. So like I'm back so far any of this Bitcoin bond, not as such the amount is not not chipped into this Bitcoin bond. So like, yeah, that's a bad sign. So it was just hype and announcements and yeah, it's very very frustrating. But I do know that there is still investment going on in El Salvador and there are companies which are still setting up there and apparently it's warming with VC types and people who actually want to make that experiment work and it's good that people are starting to, you know, El Salvador and some are starting to realize that or not use Chiva wallet and then try and experiment with some of the other wallets which make the Bitcoin UX much much better. I don't think this will be the last time we see a large perhaps even international or claiming not to have a nationality Bitcoin company roll into a small country and do whatever they want like Ben saying. It's not quite united fruit. It's not quite overthrowing countries yet. But I can see Bitcoin companies rolling into smaller countries and causing severe problems. I don't think this will be the last time we talk about it. Dan Eve, why did so many Bitcoiners, especially libertarian Bitcoiners, he said in parentheses, go all in on El Salvador, went from the outside. It was obviously unlikely to succeed. It was obviously a dictator. It was obviously not a technological society. It was obviously a long shot. But they were dancing on the stage for the volcano bonds like they had it made. And as Ben said, they didn't even invest when it came time to pay. Well, I think some good points have been made about the fact that the bond, the appeal for the bond could be because it's not directly investing in Bitcoin. So there's although you're getting exposure to Bitcoin, you're not having to hold it, etc. The reason why they wouldn't have built sound Salvador might be the kind of like the device situation where just build it in the middle of nowhere and build a complete fresh start. Maybe because it's Bitcoiners, they wanted to segregate the richness of the Bitcoiners from the existing infrastructure and people. Because they thought there might be protection issues, then anyone could just travel to Bitcoin city and just rob you. So that could still happen. The, I think they're definitely probably sweating right now though with the Bitcoin price. They've got the $800 million bond that's coming up in 2023. So that's pretty serious if they default. If they default on that, the IMF is obviously getting a bit smug right now. And the article says like the IMF previously criticized Bikelli's call to make Bitcoin legal tender and has called for the government to reconsider its reliance on the cryptocurrency. But I know exactly. And what they say, reduce your reliance on the crypto on Bitcoin by increasing your reliance back on the dollar, which is printed to oblivion. We've discussed many times about how, what is it? 80% of the dollars has been printed in the last few years and that's insane. So you're putting your monetary policy in the hands of another country with completely different interests. You know, several are reliant on the dollar and then someone else can just print it out of thin air. And that impact, they don't get the benefits, the trickle down benefits of that because they don't get the money trickling back into their infrastructure. They just get an inflated dollar, which has less buying power elsewhere. Wall Street pro on Twitter said that they, I don't know how true they had a chart. But so the Bikelli's lost money on every single Bitcoin purchase. So overall, one paper is 21.5 million dollars down, which is pretty hard to call. There's 25.25.15%. It's got to be some kind of record. He's lost money on every Bitcoin purchase. This ledger. It's pretty unlucky. I know I could beat him. I could beat him. But Max, Max, Max, as I said, you know, he said, oh, that's BS. I'm in sat in El Salvador right now. And there's there's two billion dollars worth of pledges here. But pledges are one thing and commitment and actually buying into the bond is another. And let's face it, how many sales don't go through of in every industry where people pull out of the last minute for whatever reason. It's the thing with people not shilling, it's like promoting the Bitcoin one and not buying into it. It's like one of those like those shill thing. It's like a giant shilling system. Like everyone's got a ref link. Like, oh, you know, they're actually buying into it. They're not putting their own money in, but they'll make money off of of shilling it. Which is interesting. You know, it's one one approach. But I'm sure they probably are committing. It's just maybe it's just the legal it's about, I don't know. But maybe someone needs to dip their toes into the water first. I just can't believe that not a single personal entity has put it on paper. Like, you know, there's so much money floating around. Someone's going to dip their toes into the water. But the one thing is that, you know, the IMF, they are getting, they are getting pretty smug. And if we did see like a 10K a 10K Bitcoin, they would be, you know, smugger than a far sniffing Prius driver. I think based on all of their, their cofs of El Salvador and the and their Bitcoin antics. Well, I'm sure someone has bid on it, but it's probably just really terrible. Like that $200 bid for the $3 million first tweet and FD. And the guy was like, no, that's not happening. I'm not selling it for $200. And it was funny what Dan said about Bitcoin city and that you might get robbed there. Remind me of a great scene from Steve Martin's classic movie LA Story, where there's a line of people for the ATM on the right. And there's a line of robbers on the left. And Steve gets his money from the thing and the guy's like, hi, I'm Bob. I'll be your robber. And that seems like what all of Bitcoin city and all of these Bitcoin city else just seemed like like giant honeypots full of stupid Bitcoiners walking around having to give away their money getting robbed all the time. Like it just like they'll make the first one of these. And then the first day of the first week, they'll be like, crime is kind of rampant in Bitcoin city. It's almost like these libertarians don't care about other people at all. And maybe aren't the best neighbors to live next door to. They might even be working on the crime themselves. They might be organizing it. This thing of ours, something like that. So I don't know about the Bitcoin cities and the Citadel. Everyone likes the idea. But maybe the online world is our Citadel, the metaverse, the Twitterverse internet, you know, like they call it. But let's move on to the exit question. Grade the El Salvador experience experiment. Give a letter grade to what's going on. Josh Jagala, A for excellent, F for failing. Where will we go on the El Salvador experiment? I want it to become an A. You know, I really do. I want it to come an A. I want the best form. You know, I want the best for the people of El Salvador. I don't really care about the guy running the whole show. I want the best for the people that are living in this little geographical region. And I want the best for Bitcoin as, let's see. And it turns out the guy has a backup plan already. He shows on Twitter all the time. He has McDonald's experience. He has Mick experiment. So there's always hope for a Bukkali much like I used to say I can be a sandwich artist. He could always go back to the Mick company. Martin Wishmare, give us a grade A through F the El Salvador experiment. I think right now I give it a C, but as Josh said, I think the people there deserve an A. And as Ben said, there is still lots of like individual companies working there. I know several Bitcoiners that are really planning on moving there. I want their there. They want just sit there and go to the beach. They will start their own business again, just like they've always been doing. And it will take maybe 10 years, but eventually the law, I mean, in long term, people of El Salvador will be better off having a currency that's not linked to the US dollar. Even though they might not realize it right now. And in many cases, the denial is also politically based because they don't like the president. So therefore, they don't like his plans. And that is also my concern with Bitcoin. It shouldn't be forced upon people top down. People should learn about it. And then they will make the smart decision for smart money themselves. There's no regulations or politicians need a proof of need it for that. So yes, it will turn out, okay, but we'll have some bumps in the road, which was to be expected in a way. And I mean, it's a whole country, right? They just went down. They're down 21. What is it? 21 million? What was it? How much did they down? I think it's two years. Quite a lot. 5 million. Right. I mean, you know, CNN plus is that 300 million. The 21 number though, it keeps coming up. 21 million, but like literally CNN lost 300 million dollars in trying CNN plus and failed after a month. So I mean, these numbers, you know, get in perspective here. Yeah, but CNN's probably a bigger company than El Salvador is a country. I'm not sure I'd have to look it up. Ben Arck, give us a letter grade for the El Salvador experiment. Well, when I was a teacher, I was just a six, I took my kids and I was just a six, then you know, with it. So in the code, you have GCSEs and NF is a pass. So I think the they're still going to pass. That's what counts. I want them to get a B. And I do think it's, I mean, I think it's possible if it's not. So you've got a whole country of people who've learned probably look quite a lot about Bitcoin and about the lightning network. And that's great. And I'm trying to find it now. Actually, I'm Tully Coin. Maybe you can get it up. Thomas on Tully Coin, there's a fund for which I think I bet it's the bank involved in, which is that they're building a really nice educational program like a course for kids in school, talking about Bitcoin, which will be, and it's been headed by a whole bunch of teachers, which is great and it'll be compatible with a lot of sort of essential skills and things, which make courses more desirable for schools to run. And it won't be like a preachy, you know, or you need Bitcoin because blah, blah, blah, and inflation. It'll be, you know, just explaining the technology how it works, what we can do with it. It won't be politicised. And they're putting together a great course. So there's, yeah, there's, there's, there's an impact. Bitcoin's had impact in our Salvador. I think it's going to eventually be a good impact. Like Martin says, I still know businesses which want to sell out there, people who want to sell out there. And I was just sending a last show, my friend, Jayden Luxes, there, he's there quite a lot. And he said that it's very exciting atmosphere still and there's lots of kind of VCs rushing around, which is probably why people like Max Kaiser don't really, you know, see the same, so what they see in the news is it quite reflected on the ground in our Salvador. So I hope they're aiming for a B, but I'd say it's one of my kids. I'd say, you know, aim for that B, but remember an F is a pass. It's okay. So if you get a G you failed. In the United States, F is not a passing grade. It is a slightly better than an incomplete where you stop attending the class. At least F showed you stuck it out till the end. You showed up for the tests. What have you? But not passing. Dan Eve, do they pass? Give El Salvador a letter grade. I think at the moment it's like a C minus because of just obviously you've got to judge it on Bitcoin's price right. So if Bitcoin goes up then you know, and it goes up to like 67K again, then it's like an A. If it goes to 100K, then it's an A star. But obviously if it goes, if it goes down, it's going to affect. It's going to affect your grade, Bikelli. So you've got to make sure you've got to pick the Bitcoin price up. But someone once said to me when I was when I was going to do a best man speech, they were like, just remember one thing. No one wants you to fail. And that was like a real, real motivator. But the thing is with with El Salvador and Bitcoin, so many people wanted to fail. Like, and that's the sad thing, right? Even though it will affect so many people's lives in El Salvador. Yeah, there's there's and I maybe think I can't remember who it was, but it's said earlier on the show about some evil bastard who's really rich, who just pushes the button to make it drop lower than 21 million, 21K just to just to short out, you know, Michael Saler and Co and and then potentially Bikelli. You know, what if Warren Buffett, he's like he's given 10 days to live and he's like, oh, screw it. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm gonna dump the markets. So, you know, he's been hoarding Bitcoin. He's gonna dump it just to just to make Michael say the default. I don't know. There's there's lots that could happen. But I want you to get an A star. I haven't been a big fan of this project since the beginning and I remain not a big fan. I think I'm going to give him a D minus, which is very close to failing, but an A for effort. I like all the effort that everybody put into this. I want to support all the Bitcoiners who went down there. I don't know why you'd want to move there. It's okay. If you want to change your mind, you could say it's not because of the price. Say it's like the weather or something or it rained and there's a volcano and you just want to stay home. Something like that. But I like everything there. Everyone did. I like the big parties. I like bringing the big speakers in all the pictures with the dictator. Really cool. Reminding me of that time that Elvis met Nixon is really like a special time. So it's sad. I didn't get one of those cool pictures. But oh well, maybe next time El Salvador and other countries. I do want to show you the Tallycoin fundraiser. Because it's usually Lightning Network, I set it to a static QR code here so you can send it on chain Bitcoin. If you go to the actual Tallycoin for Diploma in Bitcoin 2, you can donate with Lightning Network or whatever else. They have succeeded in their goal. But I'm sure they can always use some more support. Thanks Ben. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I can. I wait there. When I scan it, it wants it wants like $10. Oh, don't worry. Can you go? Can you go to the Lightning? Can you go to the Lightning? Let's just chuck them a couple of hundred sets. It will help. Doesn't it? Oh, so sure. It's a Lightning. It's a Lightning. Do you want a smaller than? I don't know. Let me see if my if my channel can, if my channels can hack it. $10. Let me see if I could pay it. If I could pay it, you'll see it. You should get, we should get a tick. All being well. But my channels are a bit weak at the moment. Everyone has to get out. There we go. Somebody paid it. There we go. That was cool. That's our tally coin works. It's great. We love it. What on DJ booths. And this is honestly a great cause. And there's good people having it as well. Very productive. Good people. And we can use this course internationally as well, which is, which is wonderful. And we support this. I wouldn't mind seeing Michael Sailor and some of his micro strategy money going to education initiatives, especially small independent ones. Sorry, Martina. I cut you off. This is this is the example of why we need Bitcoin. I mean, Ben is in Wales. He donated to a tally coin, which I believe in the US, to fund the project in El Salvador. And it's all to almost two seconds. I didn't have to put in any personal details. No bank details. No one stole my, you know, stole my identity and used it on dot markets. It just worked so goddamnly. Exactly. Beautiful. You know, people are so priced down, but this is exactly. Exactly. You fucking cares, man. This technology is amazing. Well, and I think someone else just donated another 10 bucks. I was trying to donate 10 bucks. I said it had a routing error. Not sure if that's a wallet problem. We're just someone else already used the route. So here we go. I'll sneak in quickly. Now I sent it 10 bucks. So see if it's true. There it is. Look how fast that is. Super cool. Hope they do well. Diplomato in Bitcoin said by Gringo. Moving on to issue four. BIP 119. Here's everything you need to know about the Bitcoin proposal. Bitcoin 119 is being proposed by, so I don't have his full name here. It says Rubin. And he's proposed an operation code called check template verify. He wants to introduce covenants, a new kind of conditional transaction. This itself is an interesting idea, but what's perhaps even more interesting is the way that Jeremy Rubin is intending to upgrade the Bitcoin code from my understanding. He's using something called a speedy trial to achieve consensus. After that, they want to use a minor activated soft fork, M-A-S-F, which the miners would be able to operate and install the upgrade without consulting the nodes. Remember last time we had a user activated soft fork, which was activated by the nodes, not the miners. Ben Arck, this is a very controversial proposal. Both the covenants idea followed very closely by the idea of how it wants to be activated quickly. It wants to be an alternative consensus. And it's kind of like they just want to ram it through without talking to a lot of people. Ben Arck, what do you think about BIP 119? CTV check template verify. I like it. I kind of like it as a bit, I think. There is this worry about, I hate fungibility issues as well. But we have covenants. We have multi-six and things. This will just be a way of pre-defining that these Bitcoins can only go to a certain wallet or spend a certain way. So it builds out things like, it gives us more tools to build interesting things on top of Bitcoin. I think the real issue is that it hasn't had time to find consensus. And it could have some very adverse effects, such as real fungibility problems. And we need much more time to really test this thing. And that's, I think that seems to be people like Adam Back, White and MacGurello and and some pretty important people, why they've shown they're very negative about it. It's the process. It's the speedy trial process. And it's really interesting because basically speedy trial was used in Taparu. And Taparu was just great. It was a massively great improvement all round. There wasn't really any opposition for it. And we just wanted to get it in as quickly as possible. And it's like, great, we can use a speedy trial thing. Win, win. And it just goes in. And you don't have to have the same consensus mechanism, which you would have to have to do with other forks. And it works so much easier. And it was great. And now, someone's using it for more of a controversial bit, which hasn't been tested so thoroughly as Taparu had. And then the question and becomes, well, is speedy trial really something we really want to have, like in Bitcoin? So it's kind of a fringe use case for speedy trial, which is proving towards that mechanism probably isn't suited to this protocol. I worry that there's only so many things we can fork into Bitcoin before it just becomes impossible to get consensus. And then the question is, well, what do we want? And I think something like Bit 300 and the drive chain stuff, I think that allows Bitcoin to be everything it needs to be. It gives us a huge new tool set to work from. And we can do a lot of the check template, verify stuff with it. And again, it just, you know, you need to arrive at consensus through people testing, researching, writing papers, and props to the Bitcoin community for sensing and having an appropriate reaction to a change, which is being proposed to go into Bitcoin in a way, which isn't kind of, you know, trying to, I mean, this, this proposal has been around for a while. It's been around since like 2018 or something. And he did a talk in 2019 in the conference in the Miami, I'll solve it. Not a solve a job, no, no, yeah, some Francisco conference. But yeah, it was, yeah, so it's been in the works for a while, but it just hasn't been tested enough. And it's speedy trial, which is the problem, not the Bitcoin one line itself, I don't think. It sounds like Bitcoin's a lot like the US government and the Constitution. People want it to react really quickly and change to their needs. But it's not designed that way. It's designed to be frustratingly slow so that presumably you debate back and forth, get a better bill that serves more people. It hasn't quite worked out that way, but we'll have to see if it's, if it works out with that way in Bitcoin. Dan, eve your thoughts on BIP 119. So just what the premise, if this is to the panel to confirm my understanding. So this is for a to allow a Bitcoin to be sent to an to be locked that it can only be sent to a specific address. Is that correct? Does that understand it? No, I've had to say one of the things that's just an emphasis like programmable money. So it adds to that. Right. This is and with more detail. You can do that, but you can do a whole lot of other things as well. So it makes it more kind of smart contracty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, interesting. Yeah, covenant obviously it sounds, sounds very holy, doesn't it? But it seems like it seems like obviously taproot got through in with the same sort of fast tracking as they're trying to propose for BIP 119. But the difference is, you know, tap the general kind of consensus around taproot was a lot stronger. And I think there's probably a bit of a bonus contention for some people is that is that there's you know, Jeremy's got a bit to benefit from from pushing this forward like financially. So it may not be just in the in the best interests of Bitcoin itself, but because of the company that can stand to benefit from it. So that's kind of what other reasons why it seems like it's getting a lot of opposition. But rushing anything is a bad idea. I know the Supreme's famously said you can't hurry love and the same applies to hurrying through Bitcoin proposals. So yeah, I mean, I don't understand it fully from a technical level, but it just seems logical that, you know, in order for this thing to succeed, it's going to have to carry a lot more weight behind it. I think it was it, Jimmy Song said that only he believes only sort of 10 to 20% of of miners will actually even signal for it. That seems like really, really low. So I'm wondering whether that's just a general kind of, you know, over negative sort of statement because he doesn't believe it's 20% seems really, really low. If it does have some some good usage in terms of smart contracts, then you know, that that seems like it's something that's functionally pretty good and that would bring a bit more defy and a lot more kind of general liquidity to Bitcoin. So there's some some strong points there, but it needs to be technically done, you know, done correct in a technical way and not to compromise Bitcoin and fast tracking anything without doing all the formal testing behind it is is going to, you know, increase the risk of impacting Bitcoin in a negative way. And no one wants that like the Bitcoin isn't this, you know, isn't as experimental. Everything like seems to go on on other shit coins and stuff first and Bitcoin is the rock that is stable and you don't want to you don't want to shake the rock because you know, you don't want the rocks to fall on you. You always win points. You always win points for quoting the Supremes. You can't hurry love. You just have to wait. And the Covenant's also a weird word for me, Dan. I always hear Terrence stamp in Jim Carrey's fantastic Yes man. And he's like, we have entered a covenant. And then from then on Jim Carrey has to say yes to everything. It's a great movie to check it out. Josh Shagalla, what about BIP 119 and the Covenant? Is that a scary thing or is it more scary that someone who could clearly make money on this is trying to push their own ideas into Bitcoin once again. I like that Bitcoin is looking to move forward. I just, you know, everything will take slowly. Everything will take time and everything will be totally scrutinized. Not like in the Ethereum network, everything will be really, really fought over and shik will be slung. And if it's the right thing, it'll happen. If it isn't, it'll fork and someone will try it on an on a fork. And then if it works on the fork, maybe the original chain might take it on eventually. But yeah, I think it's I think it's good. You know, this is what Bitcoin was about. Is putting a proposal forward, seeing who likes it, seeing who upgrades and seeing if that was 51%. I don't know if Bitcoin Covenant's going to work as a name. It's not quite B Diamond or B Rodeum. They need kind of a medal to fork Bitcoin. Martian Wishnare, what do you think? BIP 119, Speedy Trial. Great for everyone. And so the Bitcoin Covenant would be BC Cash then. And we would get all the BC Cash if it's spits off now. Personally, I'm not too happy with the fact that it's in my opinion, it's quite a big change in Bitcoin. That is pushed by our Speedy Trial. So I don't know, I think he has an agenda there. The agenda being that he can make some money out of it. But it is in major changing in potentially has a big impact on the fringe ability of Bitcoin. And I think anything that impacts the fringe ability of my Bitcoin is an attack on Bitcoin. So therefore should be scrutinized and it should be consensus. And the fact that it is being pushed through by some Speedy Trial could be a bad actor if it's not properly researched. So I think we should not accept this as a we should not accept it until it's well thought out. From what I understood is that you can limit for example, like transactions to only go to certain other addresses. So if you do this recursively, you might end up with a whole bunch of Bitcoin that end up in a separate system that will never be able to leave that system. We compared it a bit to the resolute where you can buy Bitcoin and you can sell Bitcoin at Revolute Bank, but you can never transfer them off. Therefore ever locked into the Revolute System. You don't even know whether they exist or not. This is like a sort of like subset. I believe PayPal still has that, isn't it? So this is not what we want. We want Bitcoin to be fungible and easy and understandable. And maybe there are other options and things we can do with with the Bitcoin 1.1.9. But for now, let's first research it, proper, get consensus, the regular way. Maybe it will take years. And if it takes years, it probably has a good reason to take years. And once everybody is on board, we can always decide to implement it. I know Dan. That should not be happened. And I think we should not have made your changes pushed via speedy trial this way unless everyone is on board. It's just a, it's scary. Just imagine that a bad actor like a government will discover this feature and then demand that all transactions in Bitcoin are done in that way. So that it's more control over where all those transactions are going. This is no. We haven't properly grasped the consequences of such a change. So we shouldn't change it. And yes, just said it will take forever to change anything in Bitcoin. But I think this is what makes Bitcoin strong. And this is what makes Ethereum a shitty platform in my opinion, my personal opinion. But yeah, yeah, that's my two cents. There's a good, I mean, it's like what you said about Ethereum, and they're like they're packing all this functionality just since this thing on the base chain. And like maybe Bitcoin doesn't need any of that stuff. Maybe that contracting stuff should be on a sidechain or something rather than being packed into Bitcoin. Keep Bitcoin Bitcoin. And yes, a sidechain and it would be great for doing go things. It would also be less pressure on the on the main chain. I believe Ethereum has $50,000 transactions now, right? Because they've inevitably had to go to sidechains anyway. They've got these broken side chains being rolled out as bandays. But if you do it properly, they can be pretty nice. So can we all agree that we say no to BIP 119 for now? Yes. I think that's going to be the exit question. But those trapped coins remind me of a line. I think Dan will know from Hotel California. You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave. But what do you think? Thumbs up or down? BIP 119, Ben Ark, up or down? Oh, Ben's confused. Martine Wishmeyer, up or down? Oh, this is two thumbs down. Dan Eve, up or down? Down, down, Josh? I need to read more about it. All right, so one of Staten. Wait, that's sorry. I'm not Thumbs down. Maybe it's speedy trial. Speedy trial. Speedy trial. All right, we've fixed Bitcoin right here. That's all it takes is a thumbs up thumbs down. Very few people know that. Moving on to issue five bonus issue. Binance CEO says Elon Musk has no plan for Twitter. And he wrote him a $500 million blank check anyway. The article probably says the reason, but I assume it's something like Binance CEO has too much money. Does not fear wrath of shareholders. Has no corporate headquarters. What do you think we'll start with Dan Eve? What do you think about not just Elon Musk taking over Twitter, but more specifically the Binance CEO change pens now giving him $500 million with no business plan, no plans to make money at all, taking the shareholders money and just doing it. What do you think? I think free speech is a safe with Binance buying into Twitter. Overall, I think there's a bit of doom and gloom from about must taking on Twitter. Suddenly it's going to become like an SS recruiting ground and everyone's going to become a Nazi. It's a bit chicken-liccing skies falling down. Obviously, laws are still going to be upheld and stuff like that, but there's just going to be less kind of political restrictiveness, I think, which is a good thing, right? You can't have you need to have good discourse. You can't just slap down every idea. But within the constraints of the law, you can't do crazy stuff like yell, fire in a chicken factory or cinema, whichever it is. Either way, it's disastrous. But overall, I think it's good that there will be less, less little scams and there's going to be more focus on that. I think Binance is going to gain a lot from it. When they bought a coin market cap, they'll be able to sneak things in, like maybe some Binance kind of buttons, I don't know. But that investing half a billion dollars is quite a big sum of money to be putting forward. They're going to have some swing, I think, in there. I think overall, I'm keen to see what the changes can be. I think realise that actually Twitter's got, I think I read less than half a billion users, which seems like I thought it would be much higher than that. I still think it's got a lot of room for growth. I'm interested to see where it does go. Obviously, a lot of though are probably bots. There's absolutely loads of them still around. But once they get cold, I'd be interesting to see if it can climb to the billion dollar billion, sorry, user marker. I'm not sure what Facebook is now, but that's way, way past a billion. So I think Twitter's got a lot of room to grow. I'm keen to see what's going to be changing in the Twitterverse. Josh Shagal, tell me this finance guy is crazy like a fox. Tell me he has a plan to get Binance coin as the tipping coin for Twitter and that there's $500 million just gets him in the room and that it's really somehow a good idea. Yeah, I think it's, nothing comes for free, nothing. You don't just give someone half a billion dollars and not expect anything. There's a plan. All these free speech advocates saying Elon, and I'm slightly one of them. I think it's better that he buys it and he opens it up. But I'd rather be more of a technological front saying we can't just trust the ride on the whims of some extravagant billionaire. We really need to build technological solutions to censorship where you can deal with censorship in one way because you kind of need it. I don't want to see people's heads cut off in front of from some extremist and I don't want to see child molestation and discussing stuff like that. I want to see those people hunt it down and put in prison. But at the same time, we need open discourse. Open discourse is so, so, so important. By shutting everything down, it just gets people in echo chambers and the problem is when we've had in the past people like Trump or other people, they go, I will build our own. And they build their own, but then only that kind go there. And then you also get echo chambers of that style. And so you get echo chambers of people cancelling cultures and leaving their own culture and echoing. And then you get the new play echoing. So it's really important to have an open space. So building something new sometimes doesn't work because how you seed it is how the culture that will grow. That's where I think like something like Nostar, what Ben's working on, it's really good. It's taking the notion of where censorship is based on a node basis. And if you want to join a certain thing, I do fear that it still has the potential to be echo chamber. But as a whole, I think that the answer is more technological because suddenly maybe I don't know anyone that maybe a musk starts to sense of certain things that we don't see yet. So trusting people is kind of like trusting banks with money, central banks with money. You know, they might have a good policy one year, and might have an absolutely terrible policy some other year. It's no good. Let's let's figure out something better. Maybe they should implement where the tweets go in, they're actually communicated via duck quacking because duck quacks don't echo, and therefore there will be no chamber to echo. Yeah, yeah. Or eal mail. Science. Like electric eal mail where you just really charge up and you encrypt the eal and you throw it down the toilet, you wait for it to count the other end, you give someone the message. Well, that definitely sounds much more convenient than Twitter. That's the future right there. Let's all remember the lesson that the Tron guy learned from when he had lunch with Warren Buffett. No free lunch. Martine Wishmeyer, $500 million for a Twitter investment with no plan, no business plan. What do you think about it? The latest investment. Still think this whole Twitter thing is a proof of stake attack, but there's a billionaires by social media network. What could possibly go wrong? No, there will be something happening. I don't know what. And maybe we'll leave Twitter. I must just like we left Facebook a few years ago. It's like that 80s movie, the secret to my success, Elon's just going to roll in and change everything. The whole culture Twitter, everything's better now. And they need puts its shades on. Ben, Ark, what do you think about a $500 million investment for a company without a business plan? Good idea. Sorry, I lost the mute button for a second. Like Josh said, there's going to be some plan, which we're not talking about, for maybe good reason. Elon Musk is a spy and he's trying to attack Bitcoin first through the mining thing and now through buying Twitter and then using Dogecoin for people to tip each other on Twitter or some nonsense buy and answer thing. Thanks for the shout out Josh. I mean, I haven't actually, I'm not really working on any NOS stuff currently. So I always feel bad like taking any credit because honestly that world is like blowing up and there's people building all these applications on NOS studies and the NOS star network. And I fall in quite far behind. I need to catch up with all the different nips, which have come out. The NOS star improvement proposals. We've got nips and it needs to change because obviously, yeah, whatever. But it's really coming along. We are working, actually, we are building some NOS stuff into the into Alan Bits. We'll have some extensions for like a dark market extension. We'll have a like a new burritoipe extension thing which is quite good fun. And then like a sex worker platform as well, which would be fun. So I'll have extensions for these different things which are using NOS star. But like Josh said, it is great because if you don't, if you want a vanilla Twitter experience or using on the last time that work, you just connect to like vanilla relays, which do do censorship. If there's anything really gross on that, I'll censor it. And if they start getting a bit, you know, shenaniganian, they start just censoring political posts, which aren't leaning in the direction they want to be leaning in. You could just attach from that relay and then connect to, you know, a fork of that relay where they're not doing that. And they are letting anyone post any political stuff, but they're just not posting like, you know, videos of animals being tortured or whatever. So it's a fascinating and great network. And it's very exciting. And like, it really could like replace Twitter, which is just crazy. And I feel very privileged to have been had a my little part in history of that, but I need to kind of work on it more and do more with it because I haven't done anything and people have built in great things on it. But he does want to use a lot of open source stuff. I think Elon Musk, that's what he said. And I think this activity, if he just want to push the free speech thing, ultimately as a private company, that's the only way they can really go is to kind of free an open source, some elements of it. So it's no longer within their control. But I'm not sure how it works. I don't know. If you go to public and then there's people who have shares of it and then people start posting horrible stuff on it and it can't be, you know, censored as in the whole stuff can't be taken off it. Who knows? Maybe Elon Musk, maybe he's not a spy, maybe he's not evil, and maybe he'll just adopt Nostar and then and use that to run Twitter, which would be flipping dope. I said that happens. I wouldn't hold my breath. Moving on to the exit question, will Binance ever see their 500 million dollars again? Dan Eve. Yeah, I think so. I think they're going to get a lot of drive a lot of value out of Twitter as a tool that's got a huge, huge user base. Buying CoinMarketCap was a very significant move. And I think, you know, Twitter's got a huge user base that can share Binance on. So Binance is a safer one to Twitter. Josh Shagala. Yeah. When you look at the whole Mark Cap, 42 billion, you know, 500 million touched the surface that much. So let's see how much that actually buys you, how much influence. Maybe, maybe, you know, see, I don't know if it even gets your seat on the board like it's, we'll see. You don't get dinner with Elon Musk. You'll be lucky to have coffee. Martin Wishmear, what about it? Will they get their money back? Yeah, they'll probably make it back. And I don't think if it doesn't get it back, that he'll really miss it. But it's worth a gamble. Totally understanding, you know, maybe and Bitcoin is the new Ali Bayou knows. That sounds like creative accounting. No spoilers, no spoilers. Ben Arqu will Binance get their money back. They don't care. They just got so much of it. They got to do something with it. So they might as well throw Elon Musk. Oh, what a great problem to have. Too bad. Binance. Just throw that money anywhere. We're heading towards the end of the show, but we still got predictions. Are you ready? Everyone had a chance to think all week long. They're all looking out into space. Let's see. Who looks ready? Danny, are you ready with a prediction? No. Dan. I predict that I predict that bit 119 won't go through on speedy speedy Gonzalez route. Oh, solid prediction on 119. Josh Shagalla, a prediction. Prediction. Prediction is that, I really should think about these things before and I have no predictions. Sorry. Martian Wishmare predict the future. No prediction. Just a story off the week if that's okay. Oh, you got to have a prediction. Ben Arqu, you had five minutes. What if he got as a prediction or you could just agree with Dan say 119 is going down? I predict. Yeah, 119 is going down. People realize that it's hard to change Bitcoin and that's a scary concept. There's only a few things we can get into Bitcoin. They'll all flock to bit 300. They'll read all about drive chains and how amazing they are. And then that will be the thing we get through and it will make Bitcoin useful for everything. And we'll then get bit 119 on some drive chain on bit 300 Bitcoin. So yeah, my prediction is that the failure of bit 119 will be the will give a spur a momentum to something like bit 200. Yeah. Martian Wishmare, you ready with a story of the week? Yes, we are having a attending crypto by 2022. So for viewers in the Czech Republic, you're this weekend in a board, go visit crypto by 2022, win some pre-stuff for every trade, get free bookkeeping software and see our latest greatest ATM model. Lot of one here. That's last year's model, but the new BATM tool track. So that's all my all I have for this week. Very cool. Conference in the Czech Republic. Josh Shagalla, story of the week. You're muted. A story of the week really is kind of boring. We're just working like crazy at the standard and both are dealing with all sorts of stuff and building, building, building, and working hardware. We've actually figured out a really nice pegging mechanism that allows us to have 0% interest on loads, which is really good. Because I don't bet a pack in. Hegging is all the rage right now. Hegging is all the rage. No, it's really important. Like how do you how do you peg it token to a stablecoin? Tell us more, can you draw us a diagram about pegging? I think it helps. I am down first. You guys just live in the gutter. Live there. I just I just I honestly can't wait for the stand because I know you're working hard and I know you're you're you're productive as well and you spend your hours wisely. And I honestly can't wait for this thing because I'm just it just gets me more excited like it not being released already. Like I know some crazy cool stuff's happening in the background. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's it's really exciting because one of the key key things originally what make it started was you put collateral in and then their their interest fee or their stability fee allowed the pegged to happen, right? So if if the peg slips you you lower interest or if the peg goes down the other way. But you are interest but we really worked hard to figure out how do you have interest free loans? How do you get rid of your user from from loan? So you can put stuff up as collateral. So Michael Sayler could actually put stuff up as collateral Bitcoin. It's collateral and and not pay interest on that. And so they wouldn't have to use banks. And in fact also having a look at a liquidation process is rather than liquidating the whole lot liquidating to some and also in talks with some technologists over at using RGB to port some of the steppic ones across to the lightning network. So there's a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of stuff that we're working on. And it's really, really exciting. I you know, urge everyone to come over to the standard IOT check out the discord jump on in there because we're really making the ultimate stablecoin solution we feel. And yeah, it's the I know it's running on like a theorem layer two. I know that I'm going to I'm going to go all in on that stablecoin. Yeah, I mean, it's not about that, right? It's about allowing for not just USD stablecoins, but all these small cap. I know. The worst town. And allowing allowing that to jump people to have blockchain tokens based on their local currency that aren't centralized as much as possible. There's always a little bit of centralization here and there, but we try to aim towards decentralization as much as possible. And that's key. And hopefully, it'll be maybe the Trojan horse that allows people to on board onto crypto and find Bitcoin as well. Sounds very cool. You can check it out at the standard.io. Ben, Ark, are you ready with a story of the week? Yes, I am. I'm not with me. I bought this little printer and I really love it. I did a little tweet about it. And it's like a little label maker. But what it means is I can take my phone and I can just make a faucet on my phone. And then just like very easily with an app on my phone, I can send that to the little printer. And it just goes, and just print out this little sticker. Then I can just stick on things so I could just make it free sets, free sets. And I can just put these faucets everywhere. So I really enjoyed playing with that. And then also I was using that. The reason I bought that was because I updated the, oh, you got a video. There we are. Yeah, this is it. So much fun. I updated the, like my trigger project. So like the little modules which you can use to turn things on like arcade machines. I updated updates. It's an Albitcoin switch, which is on my ARC BTC repo. And it has like it's really easy. Like you flash it and then it has an X. And then you can just trigger an access portal on the device. And you're talking like like a two-quid ESP32 thing here. And then like, you know, a two-quid, or no, sorry, you've not even that like a quid, like little relay here. And then because you don't need a screen or anything, it's using LNU you can just use one that you can just print out a little QR code and then stick it on your device. And then every time someone pays it, it just, you know, as long as there's Wi-Fi connection for that thing to to connect to, it will just spit something out or it'll do whatever you want to. So you'll turn something on. It'll make you coffee, pull your beer out, spit your sweets out, turn your arcade cred, give you an arcade credit. And it costs like, you know, a fiver. And it costs nothing. And then once it's flashed, you can take that arcade, sell it to somebody. And then they don't need to do any software stuff. They just need to trigger the access pool and input their own credentials. So that was, that was a lot of fun making that. And then also playing around. And to be honest, that that project, which is super cool, the thing which I was really excited about was the little printer I bought for it, because it's just so much fun printing out those faucets. It does sound like a really neat label printer. I know mine is an old fashion with a keyboard and everything. So the idea that you could send it a more complex message. And then the idea that you could send it the whole URL or a QR code or something like that. That's a really cool idea for a label maker that hadn't thought of yet. So kudos to that company. Dan, Eve, are you ready with a story of the week? You're the last one. Oh, geez. You always catch me out. Now there's no story here, but I'm just doing some quick research having, I'll just have the discussion about pegging. And one of the things that concern me was liquidation events, but apparently it's you can mitigate disasters by putting plastic sheeting down during pegging. That's good advice. You can also wear a tin foil hat to keep those radio signals out of your brain. It's never too late. I felt childish that because as soon as you said packing, I see anyone he left them was very serious. So it's good that you had one more packing joke in the bag. We had to use them all. So no story of the week. Just shout out to Kenneth Moon for his Bitcoin last supper artwork. Also the guy that did the Bitcoin bear Bitcoin bear whale graphics. Very cool in my background here. So shout out to those artists. And remember, you can always support artists with your Bitcoin, even when the price is down artists love Bitcoin. They like lightning network too. Not to mention as well like when Josh was talking about the make it down. Whenever anyone had talks about the make it down, they always do this with their hands. I just like it. Don't sweep it down the make it down. Can you do the make it down? I can do the make it down. Sorry, I don't know why I just wanted to get out. I'm going to the fake it down now. Because they're not rich and decentralized. I'll do on the make it down. I wish we had one more pegging joke to close on. So we're out of time. Make sure to give us a thumbs up down below and subscribe if it's your first time here. You could even share the show on Reddit or Twitter or one of those things you could put in a comment. We got a couple comments last week. It was pretty fun. So much for joining us and talking about pegging a bunch of times. Until next time.