#285 — The Bitcoin Group #285 - Nu Variant - Bitcoin City - Video Games - Football - Constitution DAO

The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk, we'd like to welcome our panelists, Justin Newton from Netkey. Everybody nice to see you today. Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Let's go Bitcoin. Martine Wismer from General Bites. Hello, citizens of the world. Josh Tagala from the standard.io. Cheerio, old boy. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the world of crypto network. Moving on to issue one, issue one, Bitcoin and other cryptos plunge as fears over a new COVID variant shakes traditional markets. The price of Bitcoin was down about 10%. 7.4% over the last day, Bitcoin down 6% and Ethereum fell 7.8%. Most stocks are down as the world is currently afraid of a potential new, heavily mutated COVID variant. The so-called new variant has been discovered in South America, South Africa, and now Israel and Belgium. The variant appears to deliver a large viral load similar to the Delta virus variant, meaning that it spreads very well. And unfortunately, the variant appears to have developed new spike proteins, which could invalidate the effects of the vaccine. Remember the vaccine, most of them were trained to identify spike proteins. If the spike protein is substantially different, it is possible. We do not have full information yet that the virus could overwhelm even vaccinated individuals. Justin Newton, the market is down. Bitcoin is crashing. The world is on fire. How will this affect Bitcoin? Yeah, I mean, look, I think if we look at what happened with the last pieces of the pandemic, right, what ended up occurring was governments provided quite a bit of financial relief into their economies and various means. And that led to the printing of quite a bit of money all across the globe by various governments. Generally, when that occurs, that's good for Bitcoin. Because Bitcoin is a counter to inflationary assets like US dollar or others when there's printing going on. So, I will personally, I would prefer that there not be new scary variants of COVID and that we could get back to normal. I think that this will probably once people settle in a little bit and we think about what the effects might really be. If there are impacts, it'll probably be good for Bitcoin. That's a good point. And a lot of people in the traditional markets are just saying that we just don't have enough information on this yet. A lot of people made their choices early. They were afraid. They got out of the market. That could be the wrong move. If some of this information about the new variant is not as bad as initially reported, Dan Eave, your thoughts on the market crash and the potential new variant? Well, there's a new variant of opinions on inflation going around. And lots of people seem to think it's a good thing for some of this good reason. But obviously, inflation is not a good thing. And whilst COVID is actually COVID is pretty close to home right now because my son's got it. So, I'm in the same house as my little two-year-old has got COVID. And I'm waiting for my PCR test. Otherwise, I'd be with Ben and everyone else at CoinFest right now. Also broadcasting live. But yeah, I don't know. It's easy to attribute some movements in the market from relating to COVID specifically, for example. If another massive lockdown happens, there's probably going to be more stimulus, more checks, and then more people buying Bitcoin. So overall, it's just going to end up in another pump. Yeah, so I think ultimately, whilst Bitcoin might be following the stock market, which is everything's down right now, ultimately Bitcoin is going to completely decouple itself from all markets whilst people slowly come to realise that inflation is bad and Bitcoin is the best inflation against, sorry, guest hedge against inflation because of the fact that it's the hardest money. It's rock solid money. Martin, with mayor. Yeah, of course, it's scary. And the markets are responding primarily airlines that went down. The rest of the market went down too. But I guess we'll see the home working stocks like Zoom will go up again. And yeah, for Bitcoin, you know, back in last year when the market tanks, you know, everything went down. Bitcoin went down too. Bitcoin was one of the first to recover once people realised that, you know, the honey badger doesn't care. And Bitcoin will rebound. And you know, especially if the money printering starts again, well, you know, correction, it never stopped. They kept printing, at least in Europe. They kept printing more euros, euros, euros. So they just left and they left the printer on. So I'm really curious what they're going to do now. So I think if people are worried, they're buying real estate and stuff to counter the inflation. But I think once I realise that Bitcoin is really not affected by the new virus, where it remains to be seen, what the effects are, because at this point, we just don't know that people will get back into Bitcoin. I think this is just definitely going to happen. I'm not too worried about Bitcoin. I'm worried about this crazy new virus, to be honest. There is an infamint amount of cash at the Federal Reserve. Josh Shagalla, your thought. Oh, no, not my thoughts on this subject. Jesus, what if you open this is a cat of worms. The only new variant is called communism. And it's sweeping the world. No, really, I mean, the thing that I'm scared of is new variants generally become weaker and weaker. That's just how biology works. It's not like, it might become more viral, but generally doesn't hurt its victims as much. And you know what? Like, honestly, whether you call it coming in them, whatever, but we're heading towards a really, really dangerous part in society. Whether you like this, the way that the government's dealing with this or not, where I think we can all agree that having everybody in a global surveillance state probably isn't the future that you want your grandchildren to grow up in. I don't know about you. It sort of rubs me the wrong way. So yeah, I don't know whether it's Bitcoin or what be effective. Bitcoin is like the fainting good of money and the honey badger, of course, but it sort of just tips over and then gets back up. But it doesn't matter. It's ridiculous. This whole thing I'm so over it's people get your vitamin D, get some exercise, lose some weight, join the herd, just turn off your televisions. Really, that's the end of that. Josh does make a good point. We don't know about the payload of this virus. It is possible that the death count will be smaller. Viruses do get weaker in parts, but this one got stronger in other parts. Variants come and go. Ben Arck joining us from coin base from LNBIT. How's it going Ben? Coin first, coin first. I'm sorry that the music is pretty loud, but there's a bit of a party vibe going on here, which is quite nice. It's nice to see Bitcoin isn't the flesh again, particularly when we could talk about these new variants and another wave and future lockdowns and all that sort of stuff. But I mean lockdowns and COVID, they were good for Bitcoin, arguably lots of people spending time on the internet and feeling that they had civil liberties encroached and wanting more sort of personal freedom and then they look towards liberating technologies such as Bitcoin and they spend more time on the computer and become more dishly native and that's ultimately good for Bitcoin. So yes, there's a knock in the Bitcoin price temporarily, but ultimately all this horrible stuff is, you know, us all being forced to set home and set up computers more is ultimately good for Bitcoin. As it was, we've suddenly been put out five years into the future to what we thought where we would be back in 2019 when all the COVID stuff kicked off. So yeah, it's ultimately good for Bitcoin, but temporarily, you know, obviously with the market self-nascrashing, you know, people just want to find some stability and some something which is more stable and Bitcoin isn't currently very stable, but it's temporary speculation and traders which caused that flagship. The bad rock of HODLers continues to grow strong and Bitcoin becomes more stable over time. But yeah, it's great to temporarily while we're able to have a little bit of freedom to be able to meet other Bitcoinists hang out, have a few bears and things and very looking to be here. So shame not here too Thomas. I would be great as unfortunately timed right up against American Thanksgiving and then all the virus stuff happening. But I'm going to say something horribly political here, so everyone put on your long term thinking caps, the kind you use to read history textbooks. And let's just think about the possibilities that Joe Biden had here, President Joe Biden. I think that Biden acted in the interests of the American people. Biden acted as the American president when he kept the extra doses of the vaccines. It seemed pretty clear to me at the beginning that the people who didn't want to take the vaccine didn't care about information and wouldn't take the vaccine. So it's unfortunate. If you look at just a supply issue that we kept so many extra doses, so many rotten and expiring doses here in the United States and the developed countries and didn't perhaps share them at a greater rate with the developing world. It viruses like this are truly a global problem. And as we've seen this variant developed in South Africa, first quickly got to Israel is in Belgium and where it's as good as everywhere else now, especially with the EU currently hanging on to their travel, lack of travel restrictions. They want to be open to all their member states. They want to be open to business. Unfortunately, that's exactly what the virus wants to spread to all member states. So if Biden has done the other thing, if he had said, okay, you Americans don't want to take the vaccine. Instead of having thousands of doses ready at every medical store, every pharmacy near you going bad every day, we're going to take those doses and give them for free to the developing world. Pfizer, Moderna, J and J also could have done this. They also have the ability to make extra doses to open source the formula. There's a lot that they could have done and it really comes down to what Jesus said in the Bible, give to me that which you would give to the least among us. And it seems like at least right now we didn't help these people. They spread the virus around, created new variants. And I hope it's not true. I hope that the variant goes away and I hope everything's fine. The current information I have doesn't look good. But yes, it does look like that lack of compassion and care for other people may have doomed us all or at least doomed quite a few of us as the new variant of the virus spread. So it takes a lot to look at that. Clearly, I think you can see arguments for both sides. You could say the American president as American CEO should have protect the American people. But then there's that butterfly problem where the American people also live in the world and helping the people of the world would have helped the American people leaving the world people of the world out there to spread virus. Doesn't look like it's helping us. Moving on to the exit question, the price of Bitcoin this time next week, higher or lower Justin Newton. I think higher next week. Dan Eve. Yeah, we're going to see like a big big leg up I think after this big dump up. Martine, Wismer. Absolutely. We're going up again. This is the same thing that happened a year ago when the first COVID scare news hit the markets. People will realize there's like it's business as usual for Bitcoin and price will go up again. People were saying on Twitter that a year ago when Barry Silver was worrying about the price of Bitcoin actually when you should have been when you were buying Bitcoin was around $5,800 which sounds like a steal today and everyone was worried about the COVID and this and that and they were trying to look for a safe place for their cash. They weren't looking for a risky place but if they'd taken the risk on Bitcoin, they would have done all right. Josh, Shagala, higher or lower. I'm getting those coin ships ready because I'm different. I'm different all the way. Yami. He's buying that dip. Ben Arck. Yeah, it's temporary. Just temporary. Just trade is doing what they do. It's temporary. Oh, but it's so fun. You get to go doom. And also everyone for note, if you're keeping track, this did break every single trading model that plan B stock to flow model did not include a brand new variant of the Delta virus or the COVID virus. Sorry. Developed during our Thanksgiving break. It wasn't on anybody's charts and it affected the price all the same. Isn't that strange? That's strange how that keeps happening. You make a perfect model and you just can't include all very all variants and variations. Moving on to issue two. El Salvador plans to create a Bitcoin city and raise one billion dollars by a Bitcoin bond. The new city is near of volcano. We'll be funded with cryptocurrency has been described as a James Bond type plan with zero taxes, zero infrastructure, and much, much more. Meanwhile, the president of El Salvador, naive bucali has outed five or six of the Supreme Court magistrates removing them from the constitutional chamber as well as the attorney general replacing them with party loyalists. Surely everything will be fine with these brand new Bitcoin bonds. Remember not your keys, not your coins, and this Bitcoin city. No honey pot there. You can trust it. You'll be safe. Dan Eve, your thoughts on exciting actions in El Salvador. Well, I love the idea of obviously, you know, using a volcano and geothermal activity to mind Bitcoin. It's obviously really positive when it comes to like using renewables rather than using dirty coal. But also, obviously, they don't want to make it, I'm sure they're thinking of this, but not too close to the volcano, right? Because Bitcoin city will become pumpay. Drumroll please. So they've teamed up with block stream as well to help fund that to raise the billion dollars, and they're going to do bonds with some tiny payouts. So I think it sounds quite positive. It'd be interesting to see if it's made one of these sustainable cities. Obviously, it's going to be pretty high tech. I'm pretty sure I read about the tax benefits there as well. It's like 0% tax on Bitcoin capital gains. So that's going to probably bring a lot of money to the country. So I think it kind of sounds like quite a cool thing, right? And a lot of that money can flow back into the infrastructure, into the rest of the country. So although there may be like calls of a coup de tat and everything else that's happened along the way, which always sound not all that fantastic, but ultimately, it seems long term, this Bitcoin city might have some really good effects on the rest of the country. And although there's been protests about the recent legislation, that could be turned around by the inflows of money. It's not a coup. It's a coup. It's a small car. Martin, Wismer, your thoughts on El Salvador? Well, on Bitcoin city, building a city next to a volcano, what could possibly go wrong? I mean, we have a volcano currently erupting, or it's been erupting for about five months or so. In La Palma, there's some really nice pictures, but it's perfect for Bitcoin mining. I totally agree. But I wouldn't want to live next to a volcano. No fucking way. Sorry, can I say this on YouTube? No way. No way. I'm not living here. But you have to hand it to them. They're making it happen. So that's like, at least they got the guts to just do it. So very brave for people living next to the volcano. I hope they will be able to monitor all those miners. But I would probably have moved a little bit further away from them volcano and just leave noisy miners next to the volcano. If life gives you lemons, make lemonade. If life gives you volcanoes, geothermic Bitcoin miners. It's also politics. I think politics are for buckets. So I don't do any politics myself. So I can't really comment on any politics on El Salvador. I don't even follow it. It's just fine. It's totally not interested. I'm really just Bitcoin really. Hey, Martino, just as it heads up, basically all of El Salvador is next to a volcano. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's like it's in a bunch of volcanoes. They're all over the area. So basically anywhere you are in El Salvador, you're next to a volcano. Then we're doing that. At least nothing advantage of also being next to the beach. Well, you know, the three laws of real estate, location, location, location. That sounds like a rough one though. Josh Jagalla, your thoughts on El Salvador. Yeah, actually my brother lives on Pyraman. His girlfriend's thinker just got flattened by a lava tongue, like literally just burnt up. But I think the volcanoes, I don't know how dead they are. I don't know. I mean, for them to mind Bitcoin, they can't be too dead, but not too alive. You've got to find that middle ground. But yeah, it's a really interesting thing about governments and being a Bitcoiner. Is he kind of go like this a little bit, the early ones anyway? I don't know. The newer ones are a bit different. But also, the thing about governments is if you have a government which reserve currencies in Bitcoin, it makes it very scary because who controls those keys? And can they have, then they can't really have a coup, especially if it's like a very strong, sort of mafia style government. I'm not saying that that's what's happening in El Salvador. I'm just saying generally, if it's a, then they can't then be taken down because I'll just take the private keys with. What I would like to see is some sort of like if every citizen had a key to a multi-seag or something crazy life hat and 51% had to sign it to move the funds, something like that would be interesting because it's 2.5 million plus one of five million. Yeah, well, we've got snorkels. We're on the most expensive transaction. We've got tab root now. It's awesome. But I don't know. Maybe it doesn't have to be on chain. I don't know. But it would be really good because this is the biggest issue. Is how do governments keep that safe? Governments, I also don't understand how they do it with nuclear codes. So there must be a way. But it's pretty scary with more centralized power structures and a whole lot of funds that are bare-based assets. It's wacky. But yeah, Volcanoes, I'd love to. For me, the ultimate power source is, I don't even think there's a problem with power. Literally, the core of the earth is tiny compared to the to the ball of lava we're sitting on. You just need to drill. Aussies are good at drilling. You know what I mean? They love to drill holes. Surely you can just dig a little bit deeper and pour some water down that thing. Then you get some steam back up. Let's do it. Let's mind some Bitcoin with geothermal. The great thing about this El Salvador situation is, if it is a honey pot and an exit scam, then we're finally going to get an answer to that age-old question. How many bitcoins will fit in a suitcase? It's going to be a lot, I think. And of course, remember what Ralph Nader said about government? The lesson of government is, if you're not turned on to government, government will turn on you. Ben Arck, your thoughts about El Salvador. Well, I mean, I just spent a week there for adopting Bitcoin and it's very enlightening. A lot of the initial, you know, I mean, I'll try. Jack Mollers was the, he announced that El Salvador will be accepting Bitcoin along with the Kelly at Miami. And that was news to the citizens of El Salvador, because it was mandated to them. It wasn't a democratic vote or anything. They were told they're not going to accept Bitcoin and they don't, along with all of those Bitcoin as well. We all got excited about it. And I was kind of forgiving of the the Kelly guy because I heard him in interviews and he has some, he's had some genuine insight I've not heard before, such as the, you know, the idea that in the US, for example, when they mint USD that they were able to use physical stimulus, but they end up with a toilet paper gun in Central America. And I thought that was a bit genuine insight, which I'd not heard before anyone say. So I think, okay, this guy's a big guy. The problem is, you have a good dictator who mandates something like Bitcoin. And we all wave a little bit of coin for likes. And then they become egocentric and power corrupts and they have these crazy wild ideas about making seas and volcanoes. San Salvador is a beautiful city. It's got a lot of infrastructure, big roads, some really nice buildings in uptown San Salvador. And with a little bit of work, it could be a successful modern city and a massive investment opportunity. While I was there, I was thinking, Kareki, like after Bitcoin, I think this is probably one of the best places to invest your money because it, it, it seems like all these companies, and I spoke to a lot of companies while I was there, who know, big companies, Bitcoin companies who operate in the US, who've been, do a talking directly to me saying, we're interested in setting up in our Salvador. And this is before the Bitcoin city announcement. And then this Bitcoin city announcement thing happens. And I'm thinking, you've got all this money pouring into our Salvador, really should I direct it, fixing San Salvador and making a modern city. That'll be great. And it would be a great investment opportunity. Loads of companies will enjoy that space. It's a beautiful country, and the city itself is wonderful. But this, this concept of the Bitcoin city, it just, it leans towards the egocentric dictator who's got too much power and thinks that he can create, you know, this is the, this is what they do. This is what people with all sort of power do. They want to build these wonderful magnificent utopian cities in disregard all the other cities which exist. And then what do you have? You're like, it, two tiers of society, you have this like utopia, volcano city, full of rich Bitcoin, gringos, and then you have what San Salvador is just, becomes more of a shit. I like, it's, it has the potential to become a wonderful city, like invest that money there. If you've got this $1 billion Bitcoin bond, which block stream are working on, $500 million of worth is going to be Bitcoin locked in for five years. That's a hell of a lot of money. We all know it's going to be a hell of a lot of money five years time. Honestly, that city could be a leading city in the whole of the Americas, not just, you know, central and south of America, but it's North America too. So that's where the money should be focused. The worry is, you know, the Kelly, the roading all those checks on power, attacking free press. I've spoken to our Salvadorians on, on, you know, locals, and they're generally concerned about this guy's eroding the, the, the, the, the sort of democratic process within the south of Salvador. And then Bitcoin is, we'll say, well, you know, how democratic our society is blah, blah, blah, and they make all these excuses up for Piccali. And actually, the way, just because, you know, he's waving our Bitcoin flag doesn't mean we should support the dude in everything he does. Yes, the adopting of Bitcoin is cool. It was done in a way which was fundamentalistic and just mandated. And that was bad. And actually, people are interested in Bitcoin within our Salvador. And there are, you know, genuine investment opportunities for our Salvador's country. But this Bitcoin city concept, when I heard about it, it just triggered, you know, it, yeah, it just doesn't seem to me like the correct direction in which that country should be heading. And then as well as that, while I was there, you know, considering like, you know, Jack Mallez, he was one of the ones who's involved in kind of, you know, helping Piccali and our Salvador get on the world stage for accepting Bitcoin. When you go to our Salvador, everyone's using Chivo wallet. And Chivo wallet is almost like what's the state mandated Bitcoin wallet, which is absolutely terrible and doesn't work properly and gives people a terrible experience. Well, Chivo is made by a company called Athena. And Piccali's brother is a majority shareholder in the company Athena. Now, this is information which like struggles to get out because Piccali is actively suppressed to repress. But it's very corrupt. It's exactly, as you would imagine, state implementing Bitcoin. So people say it's a necessary evil. Maybe you need like a, you know, wild-eyed Bitcoin dictator to mandate Bitcoin and then it'll bleed into the other countries like Guatemala or ever since Central America. And then Piccali was just slowly start to grow organically in those countries. But the Athena situation, the monopolizing or trying to monopolize the way in which Bitcoin is rolled out in our Salvador is very worrying. What was encouraging? Was you going to a shop when you do try and pay for something and then they try and use a Chivo wallet? It was firm, miserable. And they would go on their phones and they switched to another wallet and then you sign instead. So the better solutions are kind of rising to the surface. But the relationship Piccali's brother has with Athena, Athena company and the amount of money in which they have. I saw it seen our offices. They've got some of the swankiest offices, it's not San Salvador. Yeah, it's, I think like I hear that traditionally, our Salvador has always been run by a collection of these big families. And Piccali's part of one of those big families. And yeah, it's monopoly, it's not a free market of Bitcoin solutions out there. Although, you know, some of those solutions are kind of coming to the forefront organically. But this idea of this Bitcoin city thing, it's, invest that money in San Salvador. It would be wonderful for it. It's potentially an absolutely fantastic city. Don't build this egocentric bond villain style like volcano, Bitcoin city. Just focus those funds on the areas of your country we should need it. I'd agree with Ben. I'd say that Bitcoins need to choose their friends carefully. And just because El Salvador wants to be friends with us doesn't necessarily mean we should instantly drop all of our guards and give everything we have to El Salvador. Remember, as they say, you can pick your nose, you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your friends nose. Also, as they said in Dick Tracy, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but also sometimes the enemy of my enemy is my enemy. Josh, you have more on this? Well, the thing about dictatorships is the trains always run on time. And you know, it's just some of the trains go to Auschwitz. Don't worry about it. Not saying not saying that El Salvador has anything to do with that. I'm just at all. I really like the country. It looks great. The problem is, even if you have, you can have a saint as a dictator. They want the best in the world for their country, but you give them all that power and it corrupts, power corrupts. This is why we have to take some power in stable democratic countries to avoid as best we can, you know, with the means we have. Some dictatorships have that work, though, like I'm not standing up for this. Some dictatorships work. I mean, that's what I was saying. You get a good person. They make good decisions. It's like any, you know, hierarchical institution. You have some great people at the top and then they make great decisions and it benefits everybody else, but more often, I mean, pretty much always throughout history, the power corrupts, they become paranoid and think that people are attacking their powers. They erode all the checks on power and the general populace end up worse for it. If you look at Dubai and a lot of the sort of Emirate countries, they're all run by princes and and they have all the gags. They're like, praise the egocentric ideas, but maybe new token cities. Yeah, let's put a palm. Let's make a palm. Let's make a, let's go. But sir, it'll erode. We have built a palm. Am I a softer Josh as well? Because I mean, well, I was like forgiving of the cale on the show. I was like, oh, no, I'm about just like, no, take the it does. It does seem like this is our, this is our Bitcoin palm. This is our Bitcoin island shaped like the world. And we have to see how it goes. I'm still not sure. Justin Newton, you were at the announcement for Bitcoin city. What was it like in El Salvador? Were the Bitcoiners excited where the El Salvadorians excited? Sure. So I would say from my side, it was the strangest announcement of a tax incentive that I've ever seen in my life. You know, if you look at really what what the announcement was at its core as they were announcing two things, right? They were announcing one, the issuance of a national debt, something that normally is the most exciting thing out there. I'm sure we all get up in the morning to look at like what countries are issuing debt so that we can like set our social schedules around it and figure out like, you know, how we can build our weekends around like what Switzerland might be issuing or, you know, what's happening in Azerbaijan with respect to debt issuance. You know, and the other thing that they announced basically was a tax incentive zone for companies or individuals to come work there. Another thing I know we generally set our social schedules around, you know, what countries are launching a new tax free zone for companies or places for people to come and build their things. You know, it's normally something that gets like one sentence of press globally. But, you know, if you look at what they've managed to do with the announcement is they've managed to get a lot more interest behind it and a lot more momentum behind it than had they done or used any sort of traditional means or mechanisms. So, you know, if you look today, you know, El Salvador's debt, the last step that they issued was about at 13% interest rate and this Bitcoin bond they're issuing at 6.5%. And so, you know, for the people of El Salvador assuming they're able to sell this bond out, you know, this is a significant savings to them over the course of time because they've tapped into goodwill inside of the crypto community or interest inside of the crypto community to follow, follow into this or go into this. You know, similarly with the announcement of the tax incentive area, you know, before they announced the Bitcoin law or before, you know, they announced Bitcoin City as kind of the combination of the two, how many billion dollar crypto companies were looking at opening up in El Salvador or putting offices there or hiring staff there. You know, I would argue that that number was approximately zero give or take, give or plus or minus the sampling error, right? And now what you see is, you know, there was an event that was just down there with LA Bitcoin and the major sponsors of it were companies like Binance and companies like FTX and companies that otherwise wouldn't have been paying any attention to El Salvador really at all. And so, what they've done is they've taken, you know, traditional things that countries do all the time issue debt, trying and incentivize more foreign investment in their company or country. And they've driven orders of magnitude more interest in it because of the affiliation they've created around with Bitcoin and what's happening with that and what's going on there. And so, you know, what I would say from that side is it's been very interesting to see how they've been able to tap into what they see as an emerging trend and an emerging narrative to try and drive growth and drive investment in their country. And, you know, this is something, it wasn't the only thing that Singapore did, but it's one of the things that Singapore did during the internet era and is one of the reasons that Singapore became a regional economic leader during and after that time because, you know, before that, they'd been traditionally a shipping hub for a really long period of time. And they went to the next stage of like exporting information and information and knowledge workers to other people inside of the region. And so, you know, if El Salvador is able to pull that off and they're able to bring in companies and entrepreneurs and others into the country and invest dollars there, but more importantly, you know, what they're doing is they're training Salvadorans how to be startup people so that they can export that knowledge into other countries that are in the region as well as generate a startup economy inside of El Salvador. And, you know, this is something that El Salvador is actually kind of right for at this moment. They actually just had right now literally in the last few months, their first big tech exit in the country where a company called Ugo, HUGO, sold to a German firm for about $150 million. This was basically the first big exit ever in El Salvador and generated a lot of interest in Salvadorans in joining the tech economy, joining startups and doing things. And so that combined with outside investment and outside expertise coming in from the crypto community has the opportunity to create a lot of advantage and uplift people inside of El Salvador over a generation. I definitely agree, Justin. It's a huge marketing win for Buckelli. He didn't have that much. And now he has a partnership with Blockstream. It's an incredible up for the country. But his presentation style has a bit, I think it's drifted a bit from Jack Mollers. It had a little Oprah like you get a car, you get a car at that kind of a game show mentality. I've definitely never seen DJs and fireworks at a financial announcement from a country before. All that stuff was present though before the announcement of the Bitcoin city wasn't it like companies I'd spoken to were interested in investing in in El Salvador. I personally was thinking Sun Salvador's a great place to invest in as a location just because of all the stuff you're saying about it being attracting all this tech investment. This is before the Bitcoin city announcement. So how do you think Justin? What were your reflections like after the Bitcoin city announcement? Were you more positive about the idea of, do you think it's more likely that people are going to want to invest in in El Salvador? Do you think it's less light? Do you think that how do you think that announcement will be received sort of in the general investment community this idea of the Bitcoin city? So I think the two pieces of it to me are the valuable pieces of it. The first is the tax incentive area because I'm not like a lawyer or a financial planner or that kind of stuff but when I look at it it could be a really good place for companies for example to build out where they custody their crypto or custody their Bitcoin to build entities that operate because the combination of like you don't get taxed on gains on Bitcoin and other tax incentives may lead to things like that. I think the number of companies that will show up there having an area that has tax incentives in the way that they announced with Bitcoin city I think is something that can be really valuable. I think and I think that what they're doing with the bond issuance assuming that it works well it provides a really strong advantage to the country versus other fundraising means and mechanisms that they have available to them right now. The building of a physical Bitcoin city I'll be honest I'm not sure I really understand that piece of it yet or how all of that piece works out or frankly whether that makes sense but I also have probably spent less than six minutes thinking about it to be honest with you. You know I really focused kind of to me on those other two areas which is where the real power was which is around you know attracting high net worth individuals and companies with tax incentives and then being able to access capital markets for debt at a much lower interest rate than they're getting from traditional markets. Assuming they do raise the bond and if it is 500 million dollars locked in Bitcoin for five years I think we're all agreeing that would be a lot of money. It really does kind of counter that argument presented by the IMF and the traditional money system where they're like El Salvador. You can't do this Bitcoin thing you can't go on your own you need us you need this backup source of funding but it seems like block stream the Bitcoiners may provide that for them and may really provide a strong backdrop destroying this IMF type argument. I think Ben. Yeah no I agree I just think it was kind of sourd like you know all that turbulence and then I was you know trying to overlook all the Athena stuff and I just say it was all dampened by this Bitcoin setting announcement it just seemed like an egocentric you know an announcement by some of the too much power. There's also the argument that would make we want to invest not investment in the country whereas before I was like yeah cool you're gonna you're gonna build up this country you're gonna get all these technical companies to come into the country but it's a country that's that's great but then this this this announcement Bitcoin see thing I was like oh yeah. If you're working in crypto I would argue the number one reason to invest in the country is it is the first country on the planet where a hundred percent of the population has a crypto wallet and so there's going to be economic and other things that are different about El Salvador than other locations but if you want to learn about what an environment is like where everyone is fastened with a crypto wallet and everyone has access to crypto assets and what are the services they get developed when you start to saturate an environment like that I would be at least building and doing some experimentation inside of El Salvador because it's going to be a really really you know potentially it's going to be a long time before there's a second country that has a hundred percent penetration or seventy percent penetration or eighty percent penetration of crypto wallets and so just the learning because of the density is is going to be really valuable for anybody that's operating in the crypto space so I think we're quickly you know going to see yield products show up down there we're going to see lending products show up down there but you know what are the going to be the other projects or products that people use when everyone has crypto right so for you know one of the things and and you know I would agree with you there's been there's been rough spots in the in the Chiba World World out and challenges you know when I was down at LA Bitcoin one of the things I that struck me from actually from the presentation at theina gave was that you know there's like maybe four million people that have the Chiba wallet now but really before that there were only one million people in the country that had a bank account so for three million people at least three million people the Chiba wallet was the first time in their life that they had a balance right they never had a balance anywhere anywhere in their life before other than their pocket and so you know eventually uh they're going to start to think about what are the things that I can do with that balance and there's not a robust financial ecosystem out there in El Salvador right now and so there's a ton of open space for crypto companies to come in and to fill that void and to provide those financial services to the 70% of people that have never had a balance before they don't have a bank account they don't have a credit card where the first time that they did a digital payment it was with a crypto wallet so they literally have more experience with that than they would in uh with a credit card I agree but I mean it's a it's a the Chiba wallet is um I mean the the default is the the Chiba payment and then you have to click through a whole bunch of menus north of you out to go to an on-chain Bitcoin on-chain payment and then another menu is to be able to get to a lighting payment and then the uh the general experience people it failed in the worst possible way you're going to a shop you pay for something on lightning it clears on your phone and then it doesn't show the merchant's phone and then you just think of how many people are going to walk away from that experience and say well I try Bitcoin and it didn't work ultimately it doesn't matter because they will have those conversations behind closed doors and say well you should use this one instead of this one don't use Chiba wallet use this other one and you won't have that experience um but uh I thought it was an incredibly poor implemented piece of software statement data piece of software um and uh yeah it's uh it was yeah it didn't didn't didn't film it with however the thing we did film it with how was people realizing that they should just use something else supposed the actual Chiba wallet so um but I 100% agree I 100% agree like I said to Christian Ruth so the last night I was there at this bar who's on top of this rooftop and I said look Christian so you know but the first lightning hack day in room Berlin in room 77 we were making I bought the first class of wine on lightning uh Bitcoin lightning uh I think I've bought one of the first coffees like from the bar and then I'll keep trying the first piece we're doing all the first because it's the first bar in the world to accept Bitcoin over lightning network extremely cutting edge you know no one else was using this technology back then it's the first lightning hack day and I say to Christian Ruth so I was out back in you know Berlin and I say to him well we're on this rooftop in Santa Alvaro I say look here's a bar which accepts Bitcoin and then we turn around and this bar is overlooking the city of Santa Alvaro and I say no there's a fucking city which accepts Bitcoin all the best things we've built are off the back of this little bar in Berlin accepting Bitcoin now think of all the amazing data we're going to get back from this whole city of people using Bitcoin absolutely fantastic I agree with you completely if you're going to set up a company which is doing Bitcoin payments then obviously Santa Salvador is the best place in the world to do that just because you've got all these people using the software using it in the real world not just you know sci-fi all this wouldn't this be great if we used this here you used this there um you get all this uh real world feedback which is where you actually get true innovation from but no chief I want it was incredibly unimpressive and then the whole of being a piccali's brother thing was but yeah good luck to him and the Bitcoin city thing hopefully hopefully hopefully that's a marketing gimmick just to kind of get people riled up and keep the energy up and piccali will actually invest some of that money more wisely but I agree with you despite that you know the very fact that there's always people using Bitcoin there will still attract a hell of a lot of investment into Santa Alvaro our Salvador well and it's interesting that of course William Gibson predicted this like everything else in his books he had South American data havens outside the U.S. laws and while we've been critical of El Salvador there's something to say about a good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow maybe this isn't the ideal partner but it's a partner that wants to use Bitcoin and certainly we should let them use Bitcoin we don't have any choice otherwise right uh just want to give a shout-out to everybody that's watching right now and invite you to give us a thumbs up and subscribe down below it says there's 48 people watching so I don't know how you found the show we try not to share the link with anybody we keep it on the down low but you guys keep sharing that link you keep pushing that thumbs up and uh you're breaking through somehow all of our attempts uh to make sure that there maybe it's because the only thing on on the day after Thanksgiving we're the only game in town uh we also want you to check out the WCN Clips YouTube channel on YouTube it's got 83 subscribers you could be one of them it's shorter versions of this show so it's also great if you want to send it to a friend uh if you're looking for some good titles and some good thumbnails uh we've got all on WCN Clips so these are great to share uh with friends moving on to issue three Pokemon Go developers made a new game that lets you mine Bitcoin well earn Bitcoin uh the game seems to be tied up with fold uh the Bitcoin discount company and you can mine for Bitcoin in an augmented reality where you walk around the real world and there's there's blocks or something of Bitcoin and you click on them and I don't know you get a dollar or something uh martin wish mayor what do you think about Bitcoin and games especially the addition of nianctic the major developer behind the world wide hit Pokemon Go uh where all the the good people were walking in all the bad neighborhoods to find all the special Pokemon can we expect a repeat here uh but this time with Bitcoin uh this app is not available in your country that's what I got so yeah our global currency is all of a sudden geo locked by the app store so I haven't been able to try any of it uh I think it's nice uh it's it's a good way to uh to get the people uh you know I don't think you're gonna get like dollars it's probably Satoshi's but just keep uh running around and maybe like tie your phone to the dog or something where you walk your dog so you have extra extra miles you walk but I like the idea I think uh gamification is great especially for those wallets I mean fault has been doing their cash back program for a while I've been unable to try it because not available in your country but uh maybe in time maybe maybe they will open it up to the rest of the world but probably there will be another company just doing the exact same thing here in Europe so yeah for until then uh yeah yeah yeah there was a similar game like like this sort of AR type of game coin coin not coining there were there were there have been several like walk around on the google map style thing and then you get Satoshi's and you can walk them I think Ben even developed something like that yeah there's nothing Ben hasn't developed really you know it's been like is it is the crazy mad scientist of the world crypto network has been basically developing everything um but yeah that that that that was the uh that that was one but there were several others ones others out there as well one had like the camera on all the time so you could see the AR style interface and it was just throwing around shit coins which you could never cash and eventually people were called tired of it and they uninstalled the app that that wasn't a very good one that was uh uh I think coin ding before that and uh the guys were struggling with the business model so eventually they ran out of Satoshi so it ended but it does look like uh Nino Nino Nantec you know this they they do have they have some financial muscle behind it and fault this definitely has a client base and they've been rolling it into the same app so I it's probably gonna be successful and it's a good way for for for kids too you know it gets started with collecting some stojis run around facetose bed in neighborhoods because that's where the Satoshi's are and then find out their iPhone's being stolen so uh but in general yes I do like the idea of gamification Bitcoin and just like you know use your phone it it it gets people excited and and I do see business opportunities here too if you have a like a Bitcoin accepting business and you can throw around some Satoshi's around your front door or maybe just a few uh in the front near the front door and the rest is inside the place so you can get people in your bar or or place or that yeah absolutely cool yeah I totally for it I don't see any negative points here really except the the app is not available in your country that was like a disappointment well it's too bad that fold is not available in martin's country but they've done a great job with gamification from the very beginning of their app they have this fantastic kind of wheel of fortune game you can play every day and usually you win like a hundred sats or something nominal but just the idea of getting people to come back to your app every day and to hit that wheel it's just such a great thing for interaction and to get people to look at the new discount and pop up a message to them and all that so they've just done a really good job starting in the beginning with their discount app and gamification Josh Shagall your thoughts of Bitcoin go will you be soon searching for Satoshi's in all the wrong places yeah actually I really love it I remember brought out this first game and then it turned out it was Google so I think Google's behind this actually behind a few corners but interesting to see them sort of maybe testing out Bitcoin yeah I really want to see Ben's game I want to know what Ben's up to because I remember him showing this what like six months ago and also working with his seed phrase the Google maps thing where you could have like three words or four words and it would pinpoint you down to the meter and using that also to to chuck some Satoshi's around and the cool thing is what you really want is full lightning networking integration ditch some ditch some coins around your business and let him come to you and yeah Niantic did grow out of Google and Google maps they had an earlier version of the Pokemon Go game that I remember Andreas talked about playing it was very early people were trying out GPS and he had noted that a lot of the towers and main stations of Pokemon Go were carry overs from the previous interactive map case based game so yeah great to see them could do that's the one yeah and it was it was pushing the boundaries back then and of course everyone was saying oh my gosh the privacy and everyone's going to see where you are on the map but then somehow Niantic got this incredible deal with Pokemon seriously the greatest IP in the world for this and everyone instantly forgot all of those privacy things because you got to collect them all and that's a that's a higher thing than privacy is collect them all is number one Ben arc the inventor I think you had this before with Bitcoin scavenger hunts as Josh said the three words what do you think about Niantic and fold taking it big time well it's one of the backburner projects which I think we tried to about in the maybe in the after parties and it's something we need to sort of fix because it's almost there we're about 70% of the way there so so so Toshigo was the idea and I mean it's not being officially released or anything and it's it really is on a backburner but we a lot of it's there like we have so basically have like I don't know if I should kind of announce this or not because we haven't finished it and I don't know why more finish it but it's fucking cool basically have like an app on your phone and it's like Pokemon girl and you can scavenge hunt for Sotashis but the Sotashis so you go as a you as a as a funder you can go and you can select their own a map and you can pay their lightning invoice you can drop all bunch of Sotashis and then people then go can go to that area and then can collect the Sotashis can run around and collect the Sotashis and Sotashis and it's like Pokemon go and we put a lot of work into this like it's a few because you put a lot of work into this and you just kind of got put on a backburner because we do another stuff and it's still there and we need to finish it but it's a cool idea like because you know if you think about Pokemon actually why they made a lot of their money was from being paid to pop Pokemon since certain locations and drive traffic to certain locations well you could do that if you were a business you could just scatter holes Toshis just around your shop or whatever or make you know a breadcrumbs trail which people could follow to your shop you could use your also you also use it to sabotage things so originally we were going to launch the idea Bitcoin Army and those of you speakers that I didn't really like and I was thinking I might just like focus in on that area and then just drop like a few millions of Toshis and then watch everyone get with their phones and start walking around collecting the Sotashis and then ruin the person's talk at their at the conference and let's see could use it for trawling as well but whatever you do don't get on Ben's bad side I tell you what you're going to get Sotashid and you'll have all the kids running but I'm thinking in my own little village like if I threw a bunch of Sotashis around my village and the kids got their phones on and they could run around and they could collect the Sotashis like that's a really good way to kind of get people to learn about Bitcoin like they they have a balance of Sotashis and they can actually then use them like a wallet you can then you know scan an invoice and then send them a pay for something chaos like give them another experience as well you go for a conference like this throw a bunch to Sotashid's right that's one of those this is a project we need to finish and I feel like it's right for not doing it because it's um you know what's hot dogs are hot and crypto you know dogs are fucking hot and crypto you can have dog walking you know dog walking without getting crypto and getting Sotoshi's Sotashid dog walkers nice nice but I mean the games there's a bunch of game standard trick like Bitcoin companies here and um uh yeah no obviously you know Bitcoin and games gonna be wonderful it's just this kind of type two routes it's like do you build a game around Bitcoin or do you build a cool game and then like integrate Bitcoin into it or just take a legacy space three weeks I suppose to take a legacy game and then kind of integrate Bitcoin into it I don't know like the same thing the same question sorry we said we said needs we said we'd benefit from having Bitcoin and I think the worst thing is what the approach worst approaches you know Bitcoin is like I want to build a Bitcoin game and then they build a game around Bitcoin I think they're always crap like you've mostly just got a good game and then somehow Bitcoin should be relevant for that game um but no I think Sotoshi Bitcoin but Pokemon goes for Sototis collecting Sotis is like a bit of low hanging fruit right there you know yeah um but no one else can make it because we're almost we've almost finished so there's no points we're like in the next week next month we'll roll out our uh um off-enishing game well the same questions were asked with VR like do you make specific VR games or do you just adapt games are already there at the end of the day it always comes down to the best games and the other ones that decided to build a game for VR and actually focused on a site I think yeah I think the best way is like think okay let's think of the specifics and NFTs work really well as well if you think of of of of of Pokemon Go you could have different characters and the bigger they are and cooler and you collect them I retract what I said before I think the best Bitcoin game would be a game which is built around Bitcoin yeah yeah yeah well you know I'll look it up the RID because you're right like the best VR games the ones which are like clearly built for VR yeah so for me one of the things that was really interesting about the announcement is you know the timing of it it came at almost exactly the same time that Niantic was announcing that on February 1st they're winding down their Harry Potter game and so them deciding that they're you know uh in gonna invest and build a whole new game around you know Bitcoin and Bitcoin rewards at the same time that they're deciding that Harry Potter isn't big enough it's a pretty amazing statement about the things you know that we're working on the things that we're doing uh you know I I know John Lennon got in a lot of trouble when he said that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus but I do take it as a as a step along the chain to the mass market that Bitcoin is now bigger than Harry Potter that's a major victory for Bitcoin Dan Eve your thoughts on the new Bitcoin go I always never really into like Pokemon Go but I like the idea of it sort of getting people out and you know out and about and active rather than you see people playing on their phones and they're just you know they're in their own little world whereas at least this you know the AR side of it means that they're interacting in in some way I mean obviously they're still using their phone but they're kind of looking up a little bit more and and uh and I think that's kind of constructive it's getting people out of the house it's getting people missioning around it's good for businesses uh laying these you know these breadcrumb trails but you know to their businesses and for for nefarious people like sending them off the edge of cliffs like Lemmings uh if they get on the wrong side of Ferben but um but I think the other thing that's cool is that you know it's it's mixing two two cool different things which is like stacking sats and being being active being out and about and in the real world so you know it's kind of the uh you know is it an oxymoron but like where you've got like you know Bitcoin is a geeks that's sitting inside these small buildings and all they do is you know in these in these basements and that's it and they they sit and tweak miners um or they just fiddle around on their on their Linux machines however this is like mixing it up because now they're out in the real world interacting with ordinary humans and stacking sats um so whether that's a good thing or not I don't know but now I think it's I think it's great stack sats put out and about and get people learning about Bitcoin as well you know it's it's it's one thing people spending money to buy Bitcoin right and there's there's a lot of people are you know in the history of me trying to convince people to get Bitcoin is I could never get them to buy like five dollars worth of Bitcoin but I could give it to them and then that started the ball rolling so if people get on these games and that they're out you know they they can stack sats and they immediately you know see the value go up and go down and they they get on that they get literally in the seat of the roller coaster and that's it they stack a few sats and they're on the ride so I think it's a really cool thing exit question I'm going to combine the last two questions together so you don't have to give away your travel plans but hypothetically would you move to El Salvador's Bitcoin city and once you're there would you play Bitcoin go martin whismare I just moved to Portugal so I'm not going to move again it's all nice and well and I also took office I have I've looked at real estate in San Salvador I mean what does a condo in San Salvador cost but it's it's it's a long way from from Europe so for me if I would have been younger possibly you know I I've always been I've always been a bit of the adventurous person and I didn't mind moving anywhere really but right now I'm happy in Portugal there's no capital gains from crypto here either there's no text on trading Bitcoin as a person there is as a company but as a person now so in that respect it's very much like the El Salvador of Europe so I'm happy here Joshua's Chagala yeah I'd play it yeah why not I always like these guys there's one game there's like zombies chasing you to hear them and you're like oh you're looking you're running and you've got your running that was kind of cool I definitely but it would have to be by Ben Arck written underneath and then Arck would you play it would you move there I guide me to San Salvador and I place a Tashi go and I let all the Bitcoin city Bitcoin go people go with that thing I moved San Salvador with the real San Salvadorians all those big big green green goes who wants to live so close to a volcano now really just in Newton would you play it would you move there probably wouldn't move there might open an office there you know I will almost certainly play the game I mean it's at least worth trying out assuming it's available in my country Dan Eve will you be playing the game well I'm right now I'm looking at condos in San Salvador now I did actually mention it to my girlfriend earlier about after you know talking about the Bitcoin city and and I think I think I've got I'm putting the ground working so I think you know it's a possibility and some of these some of these condos are amazing for the same price of like my house they're they're absolutely mint yeah so I would be well up for moving to Bitcoin city and I'd be pumping out the stats on the Satoshi go powered by Ellen Bits and Ben I'd definitely try out the Bitcoin go game I'd probably play for a couple weeks and then quit I played the Pokemon game for a while it was more fun in San Francisco more cool stuff to go to but you did have to watch out if you go to the wrong neighborhood to get the right Pokemon I'm not so sure about Bitcoin city maybe if it was like surf city where it's like two girls for every guy I'm not sure though it seems that it seems like a big and clean city seems like it might be the opposite I see that's all wrong that's all wrong if you want me to move there moving on to issue five Odell Beckham juniors salary is going to be in Bitcoin Odell Beckham junior has dumped the Cleveland Browns and he's moving to the Los Angeles Rams where he has requested his salary in Bitcoin although it does seem to be like a tie-in and an advertisement for the cash app it is a step forward towards football players and baseball players professional sports athletes of all types taking their money in Bitcoin Josh Tagala more mainstream Bitcoin adoption or just continuation of a trend but for sure the more and more people accept crypto Bitcoin eat stable clients all the stuff is I'm I'm noticing massive waves of it everywhere it used to be where I'd be like hey cannot pay you back in in Bitcoin and they'd be like oh my gosh my cat like like like fools and I'm like you sure yeah I'd give the second like you like I'm the one losing on this deal you realize that oh sorry I'm so loud away sorry I've got I mean I'm six foot eight guys I can't help but I've got big lungs anyway now it's like hey you want to be paying crypto and it's like oh yeah damn it damn it all right yeah not send my crypto but the good thing is nowadays you can lock up crypto and borrow against yourself so you don't even need to sell it which is pretty cool um so yeah I definitely meant like the more the more the the more the merrier um let let's go if only the Rams had listened to this show they could have stacked Bitcoin years ago and been able to include uh to afford better players now they'd be in a great position uh Ben Arck the footballer takes Bitcoin beginning of a trend I mean like uh oh kung followed me I didn't know who he was because like in American footballer and then he DMed me and this was before uh Bitcoin by my army and he was like yeah you and my army and I was like I was like who are you dude and I was like yeah no no yeah not going because of uh his all the COVID restrictions that I realized who he was and I was like oh my god um uh but the that guy like some of his tweets I'm amazed how someone could be so athletically brilliant and then also intellectually brilliant as well uh so hopefully you know more of them I suppose while they're training they've got lots of time to like listen and learn and be educated and um uh and uh yeah so if they're informed and if they're you know if they know what they're doing was Bitcoin and they understand that the value proposition of Bitcoin that I'm all for it and um I think really okay okay okay I'll combine it uh the you know big athlete accepting Bitcoin as a paper Justin Newton your thoughts on footballers and Bitcoin yeah I mean I think it makes a lot of sense right like if if you if the money that you have is money that you need to spend you know tomorrow to feed your family or next week or next month then maybe putting all of it into Bitcoin isn't isn't the best idea because days like today happen where you know you wake up in the morning and things are are way down and you know if you were depending on that defeat someone it wouldn't be great but you know I think what we've seen in the industry up until now is if you have a longer time horizon and you know you're not worried about the money that you need to feed your family tomorrow but are instead thinking about the wealth that you're gonna have two years from now then you know frequently having that money sitting in in Bitcoin rather than having it sit in USD might be the right choice in many ways I think it's so much safer than the traditional financial advisor route that many of these players go through but in many ways I'm horrified and I think it's much less safe if somebody ran off with Billy Joel's money imagine what they're gonna do to some poor footballer and again they could fit it all in one suitcase they could fit it all in one private key one piece of paper one notebook so I hope for the best but I always worry just a little bit if you don't pay attention to things then things come back and bite you but I already said that native quote Dan Eve your thoughts even though it's an American footballer not a soccer player I well I think if you know anyone who's publicly going you know going getting their pay in Bitcoin I think is a really good thing oh hey Theo on the coin fest with Ben yeah so I think for anyone getting their salary in Bitcoin it's a public thing right it's showing that people actually have money and they they can you know it's sorry they can use it as money I think kind of like what Justin pointed out that it's better for people that you know have a lot of money right that don't really it doesn't really matter if it if it drops 20% in a couple of weeks because it doesn't mean you know they're not going to be able to pay their mortgage but someone who's living weeks a week it's a lot more of a difficult decision and there's a lot more risk involved right you're you're almost need like a pretty reasonable buffer in order to be able to make that decision so it's kind of sad in a way that you'll see more of the more of the rich people like you know you know drop in a drop in there you know fear it for Bitcoin and but also good as well because it's positive market pressure right it's it's businesses that now have to go out and buy the Bitcoin in order to pay their staff so ultimately it's good all round for the for the Bitcoin ecosystem your right Dan it was a like when Elon Musk was bragging about never selling any of his Bitcoin and I was like yeah man but you're crazy rich you don't have to worry about paying rent and things that normal people have like it matters a lot for a normal person who goes down 30% or 50% that's a painful thing Martín Wismer your thoughts on the American footballer I totally agree with Justin and and Dan here if you have a lot of disposable income you're either going to buy bones or stocks and put it in there and have it managed by some money manager or funds manager is that you could just it's better to just own your own private keys and just make sure you touch some away for the future if you need the money it's definitely not a good idea to put everything in Bitcoin but you know those those athletes they make a lot of money they're not going to spend it all or they're going to spend it on on silly things but so it's it makes sense to save a little bit for the future because their careers are usually quite short because then they get the at one point they can't play you know the game is any more because of the health or injuries so it's good it's a good decision for the future if you have got a longer time preference like five years or so you can live from half into half thing so I definitely recommend it but as I found out myself between 2010 and 2015 my only income was in Bitcoin so that was like a very different story you know to pay your coffees in Bitcoin and your your pizza in Bitcoin only to find out that five years later that was like a small car you know so it's it's it's but as an athlete or basically for anyone if you put like 5% of your your savings portfolio you put it in Bitcoin that's very conservative and it will it will it will turn into a pro nice profit by the time you want to retire so yeah totally recommended it's never too late for Taylor Swift to buy Bitcoins or stack sats as they say now maybe she could even buy her original masters back if she had enough cryptocurrency we're running out of time so we're going to cut the exit questions we're moving on to issue five crypto currency should Bitcoin mining be curbed in Europe Swedish authorities say yes they're worried about electricity again they're worried about Bitcoin mining I've been listening to Howard Stern all week he has Greta Thurneberg impersonator on there all the time and she's always screaming about everything that you do will Europe become the next screamer about Bitcoin mining let's see Justin uh where'd Ben go Ben arc your thoughts on Europe Bitcoin mining and Greta screaming about using too much energy I mean I personally love Greta I think she's a proper ORAH but whatever um uh yeah Bitcoin it just consume currently if you use just a transaction for second value for one person to another it's a lot of it's a large carbon footprint maybe you need that carbon footprint because that transaction is really important to you um but you can do a lot more with a transaction now we have lightning network and we've had our taproot activation so that'll take a while to kick in but we can pack a lot more data and information into a transaction and actually then a transaction becomes very economic be feasible and this carbon footprint is very very light if you can simply be amount of information and transaction throughput and scripting and whatever else we can pack into a transaction but yeah the that I don't think that narrative has gone away um the Bitcoin's carbon footprint and it shouldn't because you know when it kind of you know the old Elon stuff kicked off um there was some good which came from it there was some investment in exploring you know using renewables for for mining Bitcoin and um um maybe trying to offset you know your carbon uh for footprint on transactions and things so uh yeah whatever going on Sweden like carry on um uh you know keep bringing this up as it is an issue and then we'll tackle it and we'll make become more efficient and we'll get more other transactions so and with all that you know nix-over style social scalability stuff when you think about the amount of energy which can is consumed uh in all these institutions which Bitcoin transactions could eventually replace then it becomes very economical and and actually quite a green um uh utility for for people to use but yeah no it's it's it's a narrative which gonna continue um but yeah so I like Greta too but she does remind me a little bit of the 1976 movie network where she's just an angry prophet denouncing the hypocrisy of our time. What was the whole people about? like if you looked at Cup 20 I was at top Cup 26 marching and uh you have all these politicians flying in on the um private jets and then doing all these features and I think everyone was watching their speeches thinking blah blah blah blah and then Greta she stood up there and she did it she coined the phrase like blah blah and it was blah blah blah you know just politicians do what politicians do they don't mean a word of it um and billionaires and whoever else do doing the same thing so uh it's good that this weird teenager is suddenly holding the world to account on the issue of um you know our destruction of the planet uh so yeah well suppose I want to be an angry prophet denouncing the hypocrisy of our times just in Newton your thoughts on Bitcoin the environment and a potential mining ban in your life yeah I mean so look for me I think the the environmental mix of grids is something that countries need to take on holistically and not try and blame one user of the grid or another uh and say you know Bitcoin is evil for using power everyone uses power so if our power mix needs to be cleaner let's make our power mix cleaner for everybody and rather than try and villainize one user um you know what I would say we do need to be careful of on the other side of uh with some of the mining and crypto stuff is though you know we do show up in some places and suddenly uh create like massive density in terms of power usage and if that causes issues around price spikes or reliability in local grids as a result of high consumption from Bitcoin mining you know that's the kind of thing that can actually lead to a strong local backlash and you know bans right and so it's actually something that's been interesting to me to watch over the last year kind of the combined messages coming out of Texas of like we want more Bitcoin mining but we also have grid failures that happen from time to time right like I'm wondering where the political tension on those two issues rubbing up against each other is going to show up and what that's going to mean in terms of access to power for certain use cases going forward to me that's something that is probably more important long term for us to focus on is making sure that we're being you know responsible to the other users of the grid and the neighbors that we're working with that we're not causing problems for others around us uh in a way that's going to cause political backlash bans and other things and you know the overall mix of cleanliness of power in the grid that that should be the grids problem that shouldn't be Bitcoin's problem it is interesting that no one's up in arms over always on devices like PlayStation 4s or Christmas lights which are very wasteful most of Europe seems focused on making Apple use USBC and they're just going to outfox them they'll take the port off the thing uh Joshua Shigala your thoughts on the important movement in Europe to ban cryptocurrency mining very forward thinking very forward thinking um it's yeah Justin spot on everywhere spot on and this panel on this great fantastic panel i yeah i mean exactly are they going to ban the play stations are they going to ban the play stations come on ban them all those gamers not playing it's ridiculous it's it's a ridiculous notion and this is typical of government stuff where they're like this knee joe it's like someone's banged their little knee and they were well ban it all like they don't even think twice is yeah ban it and and then how are you going to ban it you know at the end of the day you know what ban is ban is someone with a big gun coming and threatening you for what for for calculating some hashes i just just stop it but i think this is actually where oh i'm going to see it proof of uh stake might be interesting because um because um the thing is that when you when when you ban mining like china did there's a lot of proof of stake points that have just going off over there being mined because they they they can't tell the data packets from anything else if they're encrypted and uh so it's and you can't shut it down like massive you you can get like this is a centralizing factor of like hey there's a there's a there's a house there using more power than the the the the weed growers by like a tenfold shut it down which yeah it's not too hard to bust them if it's made illegal so it is a weak point in proof of work i see um of course globally not because the hash power just goes somewhere more friendly um so yeah but that's also then centralizing if like because of these super states like europe um uh and and i see these super states they they they were four more and more like you see the the they're trying to build a super state down in uh in Asia as well um and to to you know have the you're the union of Asian countries and they then make top-down decisions and then Europe makes top-down decisions and then uh it can be um it can be quite dangerous because these these people don't know what they're doing and it's just yeah i mean yeah that's that's what i have to say about that it's it's a weird one like it's typical government this is why i just don't like more state power because they're just fools i just think we can get along with the gamers you know sure you want an international censorship free non-government currency program they just want to download their updates without having to wait for them overnight like we're just we're so close right and then those other people they want twinkly lights in their neighborhood so we're we're kind of far apart on that one um martin wish mayor your thoughts on europe banning bitcoin mining but allowing play stations and christmas lights no problem yeah i got a little bit sick when uh josh mentioned this proof of stake thing might be a good solution i totally disagree on that we we've had this discussion before i think proof of stake uh it's basically moving power to the exchanges and they're not in the user's best interest and it's great for the exchanges but not for the end user that's very true very very true so proof of work is the only real way and you know is Sweden calls it waste of energy i don't think it's a waste of energy it gives us like the hardest currency in the world so it's definitely well spent i totally agree with those play stations they should be banned i mean really playing games i mean really what are you doing with your future and sorry ban but gratis just just just see she really annoys me i'm not a tree hugging hippie i care about the environment but come on you know this is just pushing it so no just let us mind we we have data centers that are wasting a lot of electricity i mean google is boiling the ocean as we speak i mean that's not a waste either i think we should just be allowed to if we pay for the electricity we should be allowed to use the electricity and it you know it's a good thing about bitcoin if it's banned somewhere it will just go somewhere else unless it's all the super states like Josh mentioned that they will take over the entire planet and we'll do it like you know force their rules on everyone this is why i yeah yeah as i said before politics is for puppets so i'm not like going into there but we just want to mine our bitcoins just leave us alone and let us mine our bitcoins unfortunately the Asian super state that Josh is talking about az a s a n has failed and been pulled back the only super state in the Asian region is ch i n a and they are very super dan eave your thoughts about bitcoin mining being banned in europe yes it's another attack on bitcoin because it does use a lot of energy and you know that they've got like sound bites in the article like yeah what was it the each unless it's currently possible to drive a mid-size electric car 1.8 million kilometer kilometers using the same energy it takes to mine one single bitcoin you know these are just ridiculous sound bites and and the the fact is it's ganging up on one particular thing i think you know Justin hit it hit the nail on the head there like you're you know one you're picking on one specific set of users and there's obviously this PlayStation there's there's the there's the Christmas tree lights there's office lights right something that's always bugged me about you know this this this idea we should be the saving energy why like do you go pass an office and like no one's in the office but all the lights are on like there's still loads of them there's department stores you see you see them all over the place you know so to say that bitcoin mining is is bad one of them is it has no use whatsoever one of them is like lighting start lighting an environment where no one needs to see anything and one of them is mining hard money like it's got an actual usage that's the reason why they're doing it now the what's crazy about this argument is that if they're saying bitcoin mining is bad because the the dams don't have enough power and so you know and so everyone's power is cutting out like that's a different story but bitcoin mining doesn't cut anyone else's power out it just uses it uses energy like anything else it's just some it's using energy doing something that they don't particularly like for whatever ridiculous reason it is like you know if you disagree with like people like oh the lights at the theater they're a big waste of money you know I know it's other people's entertainment but you know it's a waste of money to me one person's trash is another person's treasure so you know do we have to if we cut out bitcoin even though it's got an actual use case and it's it's it's doing something that's really constructive then why don't we sit there and analyze all the different areas of of anything that uses energy and say right okay give it some sort of scoring and say well we're not gonna we're not gonna use that either we're gonna ban that as well no one we're no longer having you know Xboxes play stations because that uses electricity and that's also bad but they don't do that they pick on something that they don't really understand everyone's always afraid of something they don't understand and therefore they pick on they pick on bitcoin but no they pick on it because it undermines them if it undermines them and Tesla I have this nice fat Tesla sucking juice every day from the network well they got a banned Tesla like no they're gonna say we need more electric cars we're gonna ban petrol because and then you know Greta's gonna get up there and then it was blah blah blah what the yeah it's just non-sensical crap it's like sitting down to with to take your mask off instead of walking in the light it's just no logic at all they're missing they're missing the obvious thing which is that if it if it ever did come to the the point where where it's gonna impact on on on the actual electricity supply for houses and whatever then you know then it's an actual problem but until then they're just realizing that there's there's gonna be a need for more renewable so it's actually it is driving more renewable investment and forget about anyway in like what 10 years the tockermack is already like you know they're already pretty much reaching fusion nuclear fusion so like I to what 10 20 years and like all of our problems energy problems will be solved they'll be like you know 30 years and they'll be like a starting that uh Dyson's fear and shit around the sun so yeah we need the energy things just it's a ridiculous argument just need to push it aside and uh and yeah forget about it blah blah blah by the way madden by the way madden i didn't i i just want to correct i didn't say that proof of stake is better i just said that when they ban proof of work people go to proof of stake so if they're doing this to control crypto it's not gonna work because people will just use i get in if you think it's a more inferior product it doesn't matter they still will just end up using the market will use that it's interesting there are there argument go ahead martin now i think you said proof of stake was better because i know sometimes you're a bit of an ethereum fanboy here and uh you just want to push your hidden agenda again it's just you know i have to rewrite this later commenters check the tape put a timestamp in there or rewrite the comments we'll see what happens the other problem with their argument it also has a bit of the old taking it out on the young like i don't understand your rock and roll and your video games and your bitcoin and i think we should stop doing what you like uh but keep doing all the things that i like and i know you guys haven't heard it but you'd love to hear kreda on stern she won't let him talk about anything else you know he talks about entertainment news or the award show or some kind of goofy thing and she's like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and then he kind of hangs up on her and she goes back in the basement but she bends right she is striking out for a good cause it does matter quite a lot to her generation what our generation and other generations do with our electrical power and the choices we make man she's such a controlled there's people puppeting is a mupper poor little kid she gets picked on by the right so hard if she's just a kid you know and and then the left i go oh she's a man nice she's a puppet being pulled by the strings of someone else well pretty soon we're all going to be pulled by the strings of climate change in countries like two vola and cities like venez will disappear from the map lower florida manhattan other places like this so we still have a chance maybe i don't know but that's an issue for another show and we're almost out of time we're moving on to i think issue six maybe seven almost buying a constitution is easy but giving the money back is hard this is one of my favorite stories recently a group called constitution dow raised around forty nine point eight million dollars what was great about it a little inside baseball they raised the money publicly and they said publicly something like we have forty two million dollars for which to buy this ancient and wonderful copy of the constitution that of course belongs in a museum and there's this traitor guy and i forget his name sorry guy but he made lots of money on reddit stocks and a mc and all that stuff and he rolled in with i don't know forty two point one million forty two million and a dollar he bid right on top of them he took home the constitution they hate him anyway and he laughed in their face but that wasn't the end of the funny part for constitution dow now it looks like because of the high fees on a theorem it's going to cost them millions of dollars to refund everyone's money no one is sure if they're going to be successful at giving back all this money that would have gone to buy the constitution no one would have gotten a stake in this constitution no one would have gotten a little square in the mail nothing like that they just donated because they thought it would be funny and this other guy thought it would be funnier to steal it from them they they could they could they could just sit around they could make a consmart contract that allows the people to claim them but they didn't and they could have made it where they all owned a piece of the constitution but they didn't they just we're going to give up their money for nothing because of the publicity Josh do you think they succeeded they got the publicity do you think they'll be successful in returning the funds it's fairly easy you make a contract and you allow people to claim their funds back and they have to pay the gas fees for that claim but yeah this this is sounds typical like these sort of ape-in projects where people just ape into nonsense it doesn't even make sense to buy the constitution or the heck and this whole this whole play space is built with it's even got a picture of a dog on it or it's or it's some ridiculous like over the top thing that doesn't make any sense and people still jump in like and then I see really good projects well thought out ones that you know haven't got massive marketing budgets and they don't go anywhere or they get like a large investor coming in right in the beginning and then the large investor rug pulls on everyone else but just dumping on on on everyone else which is also horrible yeah but I think but this is the early beginnings of this this way of I still like the way of fundraising using ICOs I think they're a really good function it gets away like I spent literally two years of my life trying to go from VC to VC and they're so ridiculous these these people they walk around with any noses in the air even though they're just living off family offices money and then you know you and they're just like retail investors they're not the smart money at all when Bitcoin was going down they're like ah it's over nah nah Bitcoin was a fad like and you're like hey it really are you sure because it's like yeah it might be 30 bucks now but it'll be back at 3000 or whatever and and then you know I mean now they're getting a little bit smarter but I think these these initial coin offerings are really good mechanism because they they allow people to invest in things the thing is the people are so stupid and they they get scammed but I'm hoping that it'll take a few years but maybe they will burn their hands their fingers and go oh okay let's let's figure out how you actually invest let's figure out because the stay is that has spent so long really de-risking them everybody's life for them that they don't even know what a risk looks like anymore and so they need to like learn what does a risk look like what does your diligence even mean what is that word hmm maybe I should look past the dog picture on a coin and actually look at you know the team the the concept this that never thing and and I see this literally happening I've seen this with friends who have like whoa I bought this dog yeah oh she had a lost everything and then like and now they're like and they're asking very sophisticated questions that I would never have thought they would have because they've already burned their hands on some shit coin so I think it's an evolution of the space I think it needs to happen of course constitution down there'll always be some con artists that will try to do something better I mean they say it was a it was you know a market employee but man you know like come on there's better ways to market throw some throw some some banners up in time square or something well we've done some due diligence and it says that the reason they did it was for the lulls for the lulls and also if they had done any research at all we all know the movie national secrets the treasure map is on the back of the declaration of independence yes the declaration not the constitution martin wish mayor were you all in on constitution now creating many sub dows and owning all of the pieces of the constitution and now Thomas I was really not interested what I read by the way you're said you can easily make a contract that will refund people their money but in this case there were lots of small time donations made or donations I call it donations because they're probably not getting anything back and so if you invest like a 50 bucks and then you spend 50 bucks on on gas fees on the ethereum networks and then how are you going to get a refund because you'll have to pay for those gas fees again so your 50 bucks invest investment needs 50 bucks of gas fees to be returned so there's no way you're ever going to get like you know your your part of the constitution investment back but I think for many it will be a way to learn that you know think twice before you spend your your your your your ether and yeah just you know don't buy all this this crazy shit out there just just just get some sets really or I don't know some sushi swap or whatever is some some crazy stuff but don't don't just throw maybe your money I think you know these people you know I feel sorry for them because you know I don't but I don't think anyone put their life savings in there and if they did they can get some money back but yes the gas fees are like crazy on the ethereum network nowadays so you know keep that in mind when you're spending or when you you you have to invoke some smart contract because sometimes the gas fees are just more than whatever you're going to get back so yeah no cheese for you I think satz on ethereum are called vitalix and it is unfortunate they didn't seem to get anything at least with dogecoin you know that each coin has a picture of a dog on it and as aerosmith said if you do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got could that be nothing dan eave your thoughts on the noble but failed effort to buy a copy of the constitution for some reason i think i read that the dude that bought it he literally paid one cent more because he could he already knew what the maximum what the maximum amount of in the dowels so it was kind of flawed right from the start they really yeah imagine like oh one cent you know in it but even if they'd have put like ten dollars more the guy would have put one cent more than that right it's like how to count past infinity you know like the but the fact is that it kind of you know it sounds like a good thing that the people can club together and put all their money in and bust something you know and own a piece of something and it you know it sounds like a cool a cool thing but like as we say now if it fails you've got the fees and there was in the article it's like someone put in 200 paid two hundred dollars and it was seventy five dollars for the transaction and it's going to be about seventy five dollars for the transaction out like even at the moment a normally theorem transaction like just to send the ether is like ten dollars to send a token is thirty dollars you know then smart contract interactions like you know uni swap that's like ninety dollars so like yeah really you know people buy these small amounts of of of shite coins or shite tokens shite tokens but then they can't even move them anywhere and yeah but that's the kind of the the downside of the thing at the moment with with etherium obviously tap route you know is going to open up the possibilities of smart contracts on Bitcoin so that'll be really interesting um to see you know if um if well I suppose if the token a con the token sort of um craze kicks off on Bitcoin as it did on Ethereum and all these other different chains um and maybe things like um I want what there was one I read about today actually that was quite interesting so if you know zk zk sink which is layer two one etherium which does sound quite interesting so it's like you know it's just a settlement layer um but obviously etherium main chain at the moment is basically a rich person's chain right you know you've you've been costing ten dollars to send to send etherium you know it's still cost what like two dollars to send Bitcoin now so uh harsh beans on the constitution and it's a shame that everyone's going to get stitched up getting their money back especially the small contributors they might even never get their money back because the amount that is going to cost them to actually retrieve the funds that they put in is the gas fee is going to be more than what they put in so harsh beans uh and you know it's a sign for anyone else wanting to own a piece of a piece of something think think about the really fun structure if it doesn't work out because you may get stung on the exit of course it would be absolutely tragic if their return was three fifths let's go to Justin Newton your thoughts on buying the constitution well i mean to be fair in this case the people put their money in expecting or being informed that they would be getting nothing in return for having put their money in and uh congratulations success they have gotten nothing in return for having put their money in so i mean it's uh uh uh you know maybe not exactly the outcome that they had hoped for but it was the promised outcome in this uh in this specific case uh so i i think you know uh uh you know i i guess i said that a little tongue in cheek just to say you know in this case probably the harm wasn't that great given that the people didn't expect to really get value at the end of it other than knowing that they had been a part of something um and so you know uh well one they were a part of something it wasn't exactly what they expected to be a part of but it's certainly still a unique once in a lifetime experience um you know and on the other side there wasn't a financial gain they anticipated that they were somehow locked out of so like not getting the money back doesn't make them less whole in the way it would have if it was another kind of investment where say they were expecting to get a percentage of the value of the constitution after the purchase in case it was resold or you know some other thing where there was an expected financial return where it just then became nothing and they didn't get their money back so i i guess that's just an overly long way of saying this was probably the least painful way for the industry to learn this lesson and you know hopefully it is something we think about with future projects Ben Arck I've got a copy of the magnet card to sell you of course the magnet card was never written down so what was the original question again sorry uh what do you think about the constitution now and they're failed attempt to buy a copy of the constitution and now they're having lots of trouble refunding the money so yes it's destined to fail isn't it i mean i don't underpump topic to really comment on it but yeah no i agree with what we do with what just in fact very good very good safety within the panel now we're moving on to predictions or a story of the week martine are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week good uh well that's easy this week uh Ben as we all regular viewers know Ben created Ellen Bitt some time ago and he succeeded in getting his ln url point of sale listed on the AliExpress so if you're on AliExpress instead of getting all this cheap Chinese shit just look for ln url p os and you can see that Lily Go has like a t g o uh display and keyboards and if you're feeling a little bit adventurous you got your umbrella now you got it all synced up you got your ln bit started and use this kit get it it's just what 20 bucks including a little bit of shipping and get it and you it's a nice project you can create your own bitcoin lightning point of sale network that syncs with your own hardware syncs to your own notes using umbra lightning everything so this is definitely that was like my story or it's not my story of the week but i think it definitely deserves some attention because it's uh it's it's really cool you can see the number of sales it has there's already 31 sold there and the other one has a bunch of them sold so this the sales are uh are picking up i do think Ben should have really turned it into like a business thing but being the free open source software guy is it is it's his gift to the community so definitely give it a go if you haven't got any idea what to put under that Christmas tree this year just order a bunch of them and make them for friends program your ESP and give them away to friends and start this bitcoin point of sale adoption because it's really cool project and it's really I think what's really exciting about it is like lily go not like a big um microcontroller manufacturing company in shanzan and they've made like the alaino opios and then they're seeing how well it's been received in the bitcoin community but then they're like okay this is a big market which we should be building products specifically for the bitcoin community as well so i think it's just like onboarded like a whole you know manufacturing fabrication company in shanzan and and hopefully others will follow suit um because we were a huge industry of of makers and hackers and people who want to build their own things and uh it's it's nice to have some recognition from like a larger manufacturer in china um and yes it's got a nice price point there's a really good job of like not making it too expensive what's cool as well about it is like when they emailed me about it i was like yeah can you also include in that's the card um because that same device would make a really nice hardware one it like uh you know enough the shelf hardware wallet um so i'm looking forward to like maybe maybe like working with some of this factor guys or something like and and and trying to build like a hardware wallet with it and that's pretty exciting but nice it is really good yes really it's yeah really exciting stuff thank you for mentioning it might and um i've been in the coin fest today built uh doing workshops building the alaino opios it takes like five minutes to set one of these things up um and uh it's it'd be a really nice um potential business for say some kid in our Salvador you can just put up a lightning node for an lm bits on it which is being up a sore software make a bunch of these alaino opios says take them to shops and cafes and whatever else give them to them and then because they're using his alain bits he could then because in alain bits he's in the back end you can set a transaction fee um he could then just you know make up the cost of the hardware buy these transaction fees and then um um yeah it's like a really easy way for people to spin up like a little business the next thing as well which is for the project which i think is really interesting is because with the alaino opios um you get like a uh a decrypted pin which is first set on the device itself uh as approved for payment it would also make a really nice vending machine solution so you know you have a little vending machine you select the product you want you make a payment you get a pin you input the pin and then it spits out the the product we should paid for and that's done in offline like it's a completely offline vending machine just like the point of sale so it's a really exciting project a big shout out to Aurel um the uh one of the hackers who's been working uh came to El Salvador i'll just uh like to interrupt you just for a second uh Ben uh Justin has to leave Justin uh thanks so much for being us with netkey uh maybe tell the people a little bit about netkey uh you have to go to your next meeting thank you Justin yeah no worries i gotta jump off so thanks everybody you have a great day it was great to be here today thank you Justin bye thank you Justin have a good one bye bye and everyone check out netkey they used to do uh like bitcoin wallet shortcuts kind of like that aetherium name service but now i'm told they're doing uh was it k y c k y it's not net it's netkey but n et k i not ke y it's n a et k i because otherwise it's a different company and check out Justin's company if you need any k y c services i know i'm our team in the atm they do that maybe Josh and some other people say everybody check them out uh give them a shot thanks to Justin for being on the show uh sorry Ben go ahead you were talking about a programmer contributing oh yeah no Aurel he's made like a software version so you could take like an old Android device and then you can also have like uh uh alain your p os like lightning one of these offline point of style things on it but also the exciting thing about what he's done is um he's made it also like an offline meet bag ATM so if you're shopping ourselves a door someone could come in and they could give you ten dollars and then you could just put in a pen put in the amount and then i used to uh uh make a withdrawal link oh man oh well Ben just never there he's gone sideways he probably ran out of batteries but uh shout out to coinfest in Manchester i hope everyone's having a great time in the UK uh Joshua Shigala prediction or a story of the week go ahead oh yeah we uh we're doing giveaway up the standard that i uh this standard that i uh and we've been doing it for like five weeks we gave up a bunch of merch we gave some apple gear uh the apple watchers and iPads we go for iPads away we gave three uh air uh air MacBook Airs yeah and two MacBooks something like that no one MacBook Pro out and I go check it out on the standard i over king over the reason why we're giving away a whole bunch of Mac stuff it's just really easy to buy globally and ship locally so that makes it easier to surprise um but yeah join uh just uh go there and uh put your email in and uh yeah ready to win some prizes really fun fun crew and join our discord um the links are also there on the standard it's really uh it's starting to come together i'm really liking discord we were on telegram for ages and it was just horrible i hated it just constant messages of fluff nonsense and on discord everything's nice and organized and you have real actual conversations with people um and uh that are uninterrupted and nicely threaded and it's just much better and oh i love it so much better i don't know why everyone uses telegram to be honest well that's that's some very cool stuff you're giving out there Josh i'm doing this on a MacBook Air right now with the new m1 chip uh they're fantastic so check out the standard.io for your chance to win dan eve i get the feeling that you're supposed to be wrapping today coin fest but also feel you're not there uh dan what's going on you have a prediction or a story of the week uh i have a story of a week kind of prediction because i'm greedy and so my my story of the week is that unfortunately my son has covid but he's all good he's all good he's just been a bit strappy and his temperature's gone um but my prediction is that the universe will prevail because i've made it to every coin fest that's been on since 2017 and i'll have my PCR test back uh tomorrow and it will mean that i i can get the five hour six hour train up to Manchester um by the time i'm meant to be singing slash wrapping comically, materially, not seriously just to caveat that uh for like nine thirty or something which is after i think of some form of bitcoin um so a bitcoin trailer of a so documentary so so yeah so in theory the universe will give me strength and uh and i won't have covid and i will be able to to to holler tomorrow night and at least get like you know some of the conference in because it i you know it's very sad that i'm not there yeah it's very sad all right but you know what you could do a rep right here right that's all i'm saying it's all i'm saying what now yeah now now do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it okay i'll do that i'll do the noddle one because if i oh god i've got i might i'm not even remember it so forgive me excuse me he's all i want to cause a lamb at your missing monetary liberty and your palm bitcoin likely four nodes on a norm support the network run a node not if i'm i've got a noddle black box direct from not a list so there's any twenty one then i'm going to hold a lit i can place that up any one could dodle it on a rival tweet i'm boxing i might need to model it not just a node of btc pay server be a compartment processing and a networking observer a gradable expandable or trust us to preserve a be a pillar for the network where she feeds you'll be gone further i got one of two of the one of twenty one right before it hit the blocks get involved and run a node and start verifying blocks and not just minus stop attackers knows also how about fox and the hodl is a dot all within not a lit black box bitcoin corner also allowed not just yet to technical try noddle cloud will also get financial self-soffering teeter banks you can forget before i go please check the video on at world crypto net very good very good thanks dan and thanks everybody for watching at home given us a thumbs up joining us on this day after thanksgiving and and we hope we had both sides of the political issues here and you can think about it and i hope everybody just stays safe and avoids the new variant and all the other stuff going on out there so a thumbs up subscribe down below you can put a comment in later on if you want i do read those i come back later there's a couple and then there's the the advertisements and the commercial stuff try to delete those but uh thanks so much for joining us thanks to justin and been uh for joining us and until next time bye bye