The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best, Bitcoin's, the hardest, cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists. Ben Arck from LNBits. Hello, good evening, old. Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. I want to break free. Josh Shigala from the standard.io. I come in peace. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the world crypto network, moving on to issue one, issue one, bank of America launches research into cryptocurrencies. The bank, the world, the nation's second largest bank claimed that Bitcoin is too large to ignore and has begun researching Bitcoin. They believe that crypto-based digital assets could form an entirely new asset class. The analyst said adding that Bitcoin is important with a market value of $900 billion. But the digital asset ecosystem is so much more. Tokens that act like operating systems, decentralized applications without middlemen, stable coins, peg to fiat currencies, central bank digital currencies to replace national currencies, and non-vangible tokens, enabling connections between creators and fans. We've talked about it many times on this show with myself predicting over and over again that once Bank of America adopts Bitcoin, the others will follow. Ben Arck have the banks broken. Do they have nothing left except to sit back and admire the beautiful world of cryptocurrency that we have created without their permission and against their wishes? It's just like free and open source software. When you look at something like Microsoft, they fought it, they fought it, and so eventually they just have to now, they are the biggest free and open source contributor in the world. It's the same with these big banks. They fight it, fight it, fight it. Now they just have to adopt Bitcoin and the ecosystem. But yeah, it is too large to fail. It's extremely bullish. When these authorities speak institutions, they publicly say positive things about Bitcoin as in this ripple effect and all these other billions, trillions of dollars are now going to pour into Bitcoin because of it. So the Bank of America releasing this statement and imagining a world where things like Bitcoin are just interwoven into general society is extremely bullish for just pulling it, for just giving a green flag to all these other companies and businesses and investors. I mean, most big companies on the planet, they have some R&D into Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. So because it is incredibly useful technology, so it was inevitable. We got there in the end while I was calling out Thomas all these years ago. And yes, nice just to get to another milestone. Dan, Eve. Well, if you can't beat them, join them. And there's a lot of people that have started saying it's too Bukub to ignore. And Bitcoin is growing exponentially. Obviously, it has its little setbacks when Tesla says that they're going to stop accepting it briefly and all these little funny things and the market moves because of crazy tweets and stuff. Maybe Bank of America are actually, they were kind of thinking maybe we can do a Tesla and like pump the market. So maybe that's a sign they've just bought heavily and they were just expecting a bit of a bump. But they've seen JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs and their little blockchain divisions and they're getting a bit jelly and they're like, okay, cool. Well, we'll get involved now, but 12 years later, the pie. One thing that was quite interesting is that instead of talking about Bitcoin, specifically a lot of the chatter on Twitter was the Ripple army making a savage comeback because of a rumor of like Ripple and Bank of America. So there's loads of quaint tweets and all the articles going, Ripple's coming now yet. Ripple's coming Bank of America, Ripple. But I doubt it's that. Obviously, this is, they're talking about Bitcoin. They're talking about the 900 billion dollar asset that's just about to pump over to a trillion very soon. I think, I think it's, you know, it's, it Bitcoin doesn't need these kind of like fogs idols and authoritarian like stamps of approval. But when it does happen, it makes the people that were ignorant to Bitcoin or just didn't want to really research it because it wasn't in their sphere of interest because the banks aren't supporting it. People are now getting more into it. They're reading about it that is being put in front of their faces. And specifically by, you know, the banks who have previously said ignore it. It's, you know, Bitcoin's stupid. It's going to die when last, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I think it's overall it's, it's good for, it's that kind of seal of approval from the existing awful infrastructure. Josh, you got it. Well, Spank of America is too big to fail. And Bitcoin is too big to ignore. You know, really, it says it all right. But actually, a lot of the clever banks have been looking at, I've been looking at Bitcoin for a while. And we won at Valtaro, a BBVA award back in 2015 for being innovative and cool. That's one of the biggest banks in Latin America. You know, it's a, I don't, I can't, I, the whole article just reads like ridiculous fast that they're, that they're now giving this sort of like glowing review. And I think that's a lot of the, the years so many people have had their bank of America accounts closed because they did put some money into an asset that is, you know, some math. And it's really unfortunate that they've taken this long to say, oh, yeah, okay, let's have a look at it. But this is the same thing that happened with the record industry. The record industry really needed to get their ass kicked all over the place. The entire, the entire monopoly, let's say, I mean, it was probably a duopoly, but the entire sort of in ridiculous system that they'd built up over years where you would have to buy an entire album because you liked one song and, and they they controlled and really abused the artists. For years and, and this is the same sort of thing they had to get their ass absolutely handed to them before they went, okay, Internet, you win. Let's re look at our model and try to work something out and it was only because Apple came along and went, hmm, we've got this new thing called the iPod and we're going to put millions of songs and you are going to sell them for 99 cents each. And they're like, no, and eventually they went and did it because you cannot, when the Internet comes for your, for your industry, you really, you can't just ignore it. And this is the funny thing about, you know, that headline is like, it's become too big to ignore. Like what, as a frite, your whole point of existence is money. A new money technology comes out and you ignore it for 12 fricking years. That just shows to me how absolutely inept the banking industry is globally. And so yeah, put that in your pipe and smog it. Well, and we heard stories about this too, Josh, from people that worked inside of banks, a friend of mine worked at PayPal and they said they did a huge project about cryptocurrency. It was all ready to go and they did the marketing and they did all the multiple layers of the thing. And then the bank said, I just put it on the shelf, you know, and then they wait and they wait. And I'm sure this happened at many other banks as well where many people working there saw what we could see from the outside and they were silenced. And the official report of all these banks was crypto is poison, crypto will destroy your accounts. Crypto is the end of everything. And I agree with a judge. Yeah. And actually, if you look at the statistics for PayPal, ever since they launched cryptocurrencies, their app usage, like eyeballs in apps has gone up so much that it makes what it used to be like this. And now it's like, because people are obsessed with the price, they're like, oh, I don't know what my Bitcoin is worth today open the PayPal app. And that never happened. They would open the PayPal app only when they needed to pay someone or when they needed to actually use it. Now they're looking at it to, you know, to check the price and to check their value. So it's definitely been worthwhile for PayPal and it'll definitely be worthwhile for Spank and America. I agree it's completely transformational and it's also obvious everyone that's into cryptocurrency knows that as soon as you buy in you put your hundred bucks in you change from being a person who's spectating and observing cryptocurrency to a person who has skin in the game. If it's 120 bucks, you're excited. If it's 80 bucks, you're kind of freaking out. If it's 20 bucks, you're really freaking out. And this happens to everyone at different evaluations up and down the line. And now it's happening to these banks. So I want to echo the panel here. I want to say that yeah, who cares about these banks? I wouldn't let them install windows on my laptop, but their recommendation is huge. There's lots of people who wouldn't try cryptocurrency who are now like, I guess Bank of America's into it. And they just follow whatever's new in the magazine they do whatever the new monthly magazine says. And the new magazine says cryptocurrency D5 D apps, central bank currencies and even NFTs. So the banks gone from being you know old, funny, Dutty to being very hip, very quickly. So it is only a matter of time probably before they offer other services. And it's just amazing to see how far we've gone from maniac in a mad hatter hat talking about Bitcoin to bank of America saying Bitcoin is important. But you can see by the article that they're still not innovative like they're talking about NFTs as like our rare collectibles that they're basically rabbating the thing that's happening right now that they're repeating it. They're just saying, oh, what's happened. Well, in a banking sense, NFTs are really, really interesting because if we have say mortgage back securities, you could put them into an NFT, chop it up, repackage them again and repackage again. And you could trace the mortgage back security all the way through different NFTs to the person that's invested in it now. Now, if we look at the 2008 housing crisis, this is exactly what happened except they weren't in cryptographic proofs all the way. So no one knew who the hell had what property where property. And there was even court cases where someone went to the bank said, I'm not paying my mortgage to you prove who owns this who owns my mortgage now. And I think they even got their house given to them because they're like, well, you don't have to pay your mortgage until the bank can prove where your mortgage sits and they're like, we don't know anymore. But if they wrap up the mortgages into an NFT and then split the NFT up in say three bits and then some of those bits on and then they're NFT and so on and so on and so on. You would be able to account for the value we will be able to account for who actually owns the value would you so be the same except you'd be so be like masking is still masking who has the original mortgage and the on most key platforms you can see who owns the NFT. It's not very you know easy or user friendly, but if you click through just like a blockchain explorer, it will show you which account. So you could do it in such a way where you could like totally tell where the mortgage came from. Wow, it's cool as well as percentages, which would be the real advantage where you could say this percentage this account owns this percent that percent. These are the major holders because of a major holder sells. That's something you'd want to know it will be done in such a way obviously, you know, with our world that he done in such a way where everyone would have access to it to speculate on it as opposed to just big financial institutions as well. So we're really trusting I did. That sounds that sounds incredibly fair and even minded. I don't know if they're going to allow you to do that. Let's move on to the exit question. It's getting harder and harder to think of anything these days, but think of an institution, a company, a bank, who will come out and accept Bitcoin next. It's almost like an international coming out party and you've got a name the next winner Ben Ark. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Crikey, Amazon. Oh, Amazon, a very good bet. Dan Eve. I think that Western Union must be quaking in their boots right now and probably have been for a while and and it would be there. You know, they'd be the blockbuster of remittances if they just let Bitcoin slip by them and not actually try to do something and enter the market. So I'm thinking Western Union. It's a logical one to kind of do. I think. And Eve for president of Western Union Hill Netflix you he won't let you get blockbuster. Josh Legala, a company, a bank, a business, a corporation, a country. What could it be? I, you know, I really think that Google should probably do it because they're, they're internet native. They're born on the internet. They made all their money internet. They have an advertising business, Bitcoin, especially lightning would be fantastic for advertising as you sort of stream money into certain pipelines. But I don't think they're going to do it because they're too arrogant. So I think maybe Microsoft could try to lift being up and being a little bit more innovative instead of just constantly copying the rest of the industry and saying, oh, now we also have maps. Maybe they could actually innovate and look at this 12 year old technology, which is starting to get pretty old in internet terms and mature and actually implemented. And what I really find important, any of these big companies that implemented now, they need to jump straight into lightning network. It's not good enough just to accept on chain transaction. It's not good enough anymore. They need to, they need to step it up and actually innovate actually put some money towards our end being that stuff. I didn't took my answer with Amazon, but I'm going to go right back against Josh with against that. I'm going to go Apple computer. I want to see Tim cook up there during the keynote and I want to hear his nasally voice saying things like with Apple, you can stream satoshi's while you watch podcasts, you can design photos and get paid for the process. You can make NFTs right from the application. It's just that easy. It's time, Apple. It's time to go Bitcoin Apple famously banned Bitcoin wallets from the Apple store years ago. Bitcoiners destroyed their phones, even one man with a sniper rifle in a fantastic video because they couldn't get wallets anymore. Apple changed their mind. They let the wallets back in. It's been a long time. This is a creative company. It's free creative people. They're even talking about putting the camera card port back on the laptop just for the good of the creatives. Why not help the creatives except and send money. You've already got an apple wallet. Add a bit coin tab suddenly you're competing with jacket square. You're competing with Jack again at Twitter. You're competing with the other Jack at strike and you're even competing with Brian at coin base. Apple. This is your chance Apple for Bitcoin. That's what I'm going with moving on to issue two issue two has anyone seen tether's billions. A wild search for the US dollars supposedly backing the stablecoin at the center of the global cryptocurrency industry. And in the crosshairs of US regulators and prosecutors. We've been talking about this for years. Nobody ever thought tether was backed by anything at one point they did prove their accounts, but it was a snapshot. It wasn't a live proof. It was like oceans 11. It could have been a completely different video. And then they went on and just kept making more tether and selling more tether and everyone in the cryptocurrency said, Hey, that tether's not so good. But the people who trade they need that tether. They need to go in and out of Bitcoin and altcoins and into a US dollar backed thing. And they chose tether. But now Bloomberg business week has written a long article about tether and we're going to Dan Eve. Dan what's going on with tether. Do you think they're going to find those billions of dollars. Well, I read somewhere that they had a there's a presentation with a pie chart in so that and it shows that 30 billion was in commercial papers. So that's proof, right. There's that they've got pie chart that's that's half of it, right. Now what 68 billion market caps. So yeah, that's nearly half. I'll take the word from it. I think the rest is backed with backed by thoughts and prayers hashtag thoughts and prayers, of course. Now I don't know, I like the end of the days. It's become kind of synonymous a bit with Bitcoin pumps because you know when when tether's a printed Bitcoin seems to do pretty darn good. But that's, you know, when you think about the breakdown of the logic, if it's the tether bank or the tether not bank. The taking in fear money and giving people tethers so that they can go and buy Bitcoin and it makes logical sense that if they have a massive influx of money. That's because they're getting capital in which is allowing them to print tethers and when they're giving those tethers to people, they're going out and buy and Bitcoin. So I think that that kind that kind of makes sense. The, the, what they mentioned as well in that article, but was about the, you know, the, the not bank run, right, you know, the, the, the, the, the Fed is kind of scared that there may be a not bank run. If everyone suddenly, if everyone suddenly freaks out and starts to try and withdraw their tethers and there's, you know, an issue where there's obviously not enough fear money to actually cover that. So I think about the logistics of that and how much is like sat on exchanges and, and, and, and in, you know, in, in like decentralized exchanges, normal exchanges. You know, people have got orders in that that would be have to be quite a huge like, you know, pull out happening and I just, I can't even think of the logistics of all of that coming out, you know, unless it's, you know, they really haven't got so to back it. But what was quite interesting that article said about Janet yelling summon summoning the chair of the Federal Reserve and it made me think of like her summoning a demon, a money printing demon like she's summoned the demon of the Federal Reserve and he's like got this infinite amount of money. So you, we kind of, you know, we mock the Fed of having their infinite amount of money, but obviously on the other side, the Fed of mocking tether. The infinite amount of cash at the Federal Reserve. That's an infinite amount of cash. But what's, you know, what's significant about, you know, tether and these other stable coins is that they often trade much higher volumes than their actual market cap. So like even right now, the market cap 68 billion and it's generated 81 billion dollars of volume. So in terms of the usage of these currents, these cryptos, you know, the stable coin cryptos, they're being heavily used, you know, they're very integral to the general system, whether, you know, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing because it is, you know, just a digitized fear. Now, I don't know, is it anyone's call, but I don't know, I think it's, I think ultimately, it's a very kind of private offshore company will never really know unless they do some sort of proof of funds thing. Maybe someone will try and trigger a proof of keys run on like trace mayor, like with, you know, with a proof of keys, maybe someone will try that with tether and be like, oh, on October 31st, we're going to do a proof of tether run. Like everyone pull your tether and try and, you know, and then Halloween, everything goes crazy and, you know, Freddie Freddie, I was going to say Freddie Mercury comes back, but Freddie, Freddie from hell whatever it is from Freddie, Freddie Nightmare on Elstreet or Freddie Mercury either way, start singing at people. But yeah, I don't know, Freddie may. But I think, I think, you know, let, let's get on with it. Let him print more the cheathers if it's going to pump Bitcoin. Second coming of Freddie Mercury. Yes. Also, Dan's virtual bank run has me picturing it's a wonderful life, but there's no one to go to and to complain to. Oh, why your money isn't here. It's in Fred's wallet. It's in Jeff's. It's in Joe's. It's not here. And Josh, a golla, they say one tether equals one dollar. Would you buy that for a dollar? I certainly would not. Look, there's multiple things here. The biggest problem isn't that tether doesn't have the money. The biggest problem is that we don't know if they have the money. This is for me that the hardest thing about tether is that we don't know. I mean, what a ridiculous thing is that we have now a system that JP Morgan, Chase, have said that it's up there with black rock in terms of size of fund. And yet we don't know. We don't know. And it's and it's backing this whole system. Tether has multiple issues. Any of this centralized stablecoins do. So you have USDC as well. Like they have all these issues because once you have negative interest rates coming hitting America, what are you going to do now? The whole business model breaks as well, these tens of centralized stablecoins, their ludicrous and really if you say if tether went, OK, we'll show you the bank accounts. Here's the bank accounts. Here's how much we've got. But the fact of the matter is, you don't know if the bank is even liquid. So even if they had every single thing in money, you don't know how much the bank is speculating with that because that's then in transparency. And not only that, you have this dangerous concept where tether cooperation can just print these fake money, which is actually counterfeiting money in a way because they're just saying, well, this is equal to $1. And you're like, if I made a $1 note, I would be arrested, but they could just print these, I don't know where it says $1, not prove that it's backed by anything. And it's super dangerous because they can then take that and buy a actual rare number. And people are willing to give them their rare bitcoins for this thing that they don't know they're just printing out of nowhere. And we've gone full, blah, blah, bump circle. And that's why USD Circle as well as nonsense as well, just the same, even though it might be regulated, the big shit's going to hit the fan once the CVDCs come out, they centralize crypto's, they central banked crypto's because they're going to go, right, we don't like competition. Tether's got to be illegal, USD's going to be legal, and they're just going to take over and go, right, we're now doing our thing, packs and all of these companies. So there's a massive attack vector that's quite sort of esoteric almost like it's kind of hard to see for a lot of people, but it's there and it'll happen. And this is why this is why we're building the standard is to build really a way to have stablecoins that are fully backed by crypto or by gold and by real assets stuck in smart contracts that you can, that everybody can audit and say that there's more value locked up in these smart contracts than there is stablecoins floating around. So this is this is the beauty of working with cryptographic proofs, you can say, hey, there's more value locked up, provably in these smart contracts. Yeah, there's some attack vectors like if the smart contracts get hacked, they could lose that whole thing. So that's important, but you have that generally in crypto wallets, you need to trust the wallet that the technology is watertight. But let's say we, something like like make it down has been around for four years or something like that and or three and has never had a hack it's got billions stuck in there and you can see the billions of rare numbers in there with less value as stablecoins floating about this is amazing, this is everything that the gold standard wanted to be where you have real assets backing the currency you have money backing currency. And this is also something that people don't understand money versus currency. So, you know, right now, all we're dealing with is currency, we don't have money anymore, the federal reserve doesn't issue money issues currency. And people are saving a spending and toiling their entire life for currency for units of account. And this is a really, really dangerous thing because you're saving it's something that can be printed because they have infinite money at the federal reserve. And so it's really a time now if you're into crypto is to get away from centralized stablecoins and start using things like make a die like the standard once we release it because these things are true technologies that play out the cipherpunk stream of having real assets in the crypto sphere plus privacy and there's a whole bunch of stuff we still need to work on. But yeah, that's my tether spiel once you I hadn't quite even realized, Josh, but this is a major point for you here where I think tether did the quick and easy way they provided a screenshot of their bank account. They say we have $350,000. We're going to make $350,000 tether and from then on, people just kind of trusted there like bank of tether is cool. It's going to work out it. It always works out of the dollar, you know, tether. And like Ben was saying, there's that those up and downs are a damn saying the up and downs, the craziness in the market with tether buying and selling, but what you're saying, Josh, whereas tether just had proof of bank account, the standard like let's say I had $10,000 in gold. I would put that in the standard. I would get $10,000 in like some kind of token and I would like trade those with other people and those would be forever linked to that $10,000 in gold, which is locked up somewhere, which backs those up. So it's a better system, but it's the kind of thing where the first system is like quick and easy, just print out your bank account, but your system you actually have to put the value in. So until people lock their gold until they lock their other assets, there won't be a large amount of a pool of money to function in the way that tether does with the whole. Or a copy of the bank account thing. Yeah, like the standard doesn't allow you to withdraw those gold tokens, they sit in a smart contract and then you issue fiat peg stable coins for it, because there's no point having gold tokens. No one knows how much a bottle of whiskey costing gold. You know how much it costs in dollars or euros or yen or shekels or pesos, but that's the whole point. But, but really what that comes down within terms of physical proof comes down to the other thing that I invented back in 2015, which is the glass books protocol. To allow you to to everybody to audit physical storage facilities. And it's, but it's a mix of old school auditing companies as well as insurance companies and you work with those. And this shows, you know, I won't boy everyone with that. But that's what people need to get to transparency. And people talked about transparency and crack and said they're going to do it. And we've all thought from a Bitcoin address where you could look at that, they could say, oh, that's the accounting department and that's the whatever you could go look at all the different divisions. But no one wants to give that up. Everybody wants to hide their books, even though they talk a big talk about crypto. Absolutely, it's happened in so many startups that have tried to disrupt the, the donations industry, let's say the charity industry. No charities want to be transparent. Amazingly, which is really, really unfortunate. Because and there is a legitimate reason for that too, which is people complain when you have to buy a new chair for the office. Because that money should be going into the, whatever it was that you're paying towards. And then they complain and then they, but there's not. But I think there's a middle ground there somewhere, but transparency really is key in terms of the cyberpunk, the cyberpunk philosophy of transparency for the week. Sorry for the powerful, sorry, and privacy for the week. This is, this is really what's what's important and and we should keep our eye our laser eyes shouldn't only be on 100 K Bitcoin. They should also be on privacy on transparency for the powerful and privacy for the week. I love what Josh said about the charities don't want to be transparent. They don't want to be audited. It reminds me of a classic story where I was in like the sixth grade play or something and it was about Thomas Edison. And I had one line, you know, I was a congressman and Edison had created a vote counting machine. And I had to come in and tell Edison that the problem was it's not that your machine didn't work. It's that it counted the vote so fast it left the opposition no time to filibuster. So of course, Congress wouldn't buy it. And just in the same way, they don't want the efficiency. They don't want the transparency. They're resisting it. And also I'd say about Josh better a counterfeit one dollar. Why not you just get a dollar NFT like Ken Boseck. That would work way better sell NFTs for a dollar. And Ben Arck, we're finally going to you. Schrodinger's tether. If we look inside the box. Would we like what we see is the cat alive or dead? No, we wouldn't. I think anyone who's had any sort of custodial had to manage any sort of custodial solution for any last of time realizes that she happens and that you, you know, you'll have a bug or someone who's you're employing. We're going off with some money or something will happen. And it's a very easy to lose the the, you know, what you say you've got in your in your coffers to the actual reality of what you got in your coffers. And we're talking about tether, which was for a long period of time a largely unregulated unordered like shadowy company. Having to work in the fringes of society, I mean it's going back to that previous article, you know, Bitcoin now is too large to ignore and the problem was back then they did ignore it. And there was a solution which needed to be had so people need to be able to trade and have some sort of stable. Medium of accounts to exchange with, but they couldn't do it with the regular normal dollar they weren't served by the regular dollar. So this solution filled that void a very hacky solution filled that void. Because it was ignored and the best thing to do now is for people just to vote with their feet and like Joshua solution like user solution, which is actually auditable and isn't, you know, likely completely unpacked and about to collapse at any single moment. The more you read into tether, the more you get scared of the possible repercussions. Now this article after all is, you know, it's about Janet yellow. Of the SEC meeting with some higher ups because that's actually going to impact the US economy because the volume of money in tether has got so large 69 billion this year 69 billion in total, but 40 billion just this year. And so it's been a tether has been created so you know they claim they have 40 billion dollars in bank somewhere in a bank somewhere to account for that money, which is just, you know, probably untrue like 99% 99.9% And so it's a chance that that's complete bollocks. So yeah, just vote with your feet use a more stable solution use something which can be audited and has some transparency to it. You'll be doing the future a good service you won't be pouring more money into this big empty Ponzi scheme of a system which which could implode and could have a really negative effect on bitcoin and the ecosystem and in fact entire economies. Absolutely trying to use a more legitimate modern service if you can and as soon as you can, but it's phenomenal they have like 12 employees and they've got all this wealth and it's all in this crazy off shore accounts and it's not being ordered and regulated and then, you know, the claims of spirits you see these pie charts claiming that they've got money in their bank accounts and it is it is it is quite terrifying. When standard standard diet Josh how long do you have to wait. You're muted. It's one of those things with with these smart contracts that really, really, really, really difficult. You don't want to rush them. It's not like move fast and break things in. They're correct answer see so tether they were the opposite they were like right we need a solution now and then they just throw something you know something came out of the case obviously the technology wasn't there back then. But you know someone like Josh who's been back to Voltoro for years and it's been custodian of people's funds now creating something which is. A stable coin but you know that he's not custodian of it so it's a you know, all wrapped up in smart contracts and all this. Incredibly complex cryptography that's something to use and trust and support rather than something like tether so hopefully more traders and will start much with that. Yeah, I mean this thing you can use right now is make a diet and maker is extraordinary. I really love the project it's fantastic. It's it's a big inspiration and and you know there you can actually see transparent. How much stuff is locked in smart contracts and how many dire floating around it's it's it's absolutely brilliant and so stop using tether start using these algorithmic stable coins rather. And make it die as well it's uses arbitrage and it's keep this peg so there's this opportunity for making money that if you keep it in an iron yeah use arbitrage there's a whole bunch of things that you can do there. It was basically the start well Bitcoin was a start of defy but but you know it really started that whole thing of being able to. You know lend and borrow and all the rest of it. So Ben advises us to ignore the dead cat in the box moving on to the exit question forced prediction Dan Eve the utter and total collapse of tether will occur within weeks, months. Or years. I said I don't think it will happen there is because I think if they're clever little beans they're using that fear that they've actually taken in to buy Bitcoin and they're utterly stinking rich from the Bitcoin so it will never it will never collapse because they're absolutely loaded on the on the on the corn. And then we'll see if we can get a check all of weeks months or years. Yeah I think the the first that will fail is regulated stable coins like usc purely because negative interest rates are coming to the US if you keep an eye on the river markets and such you can see that the writings on the wall. And then you have that you have these centralized things that it costs it's very very expensive if you're legit and you're for your regulated and the regulators are checking your bank accounts to actually pay the the negative interest rates on all of this saving all of this money that you have sitting. So crazy that here in Europe the voting facilities that we use for the bullion. We we talked to the voting facility and they've saying man we've had to stop telling we've had to tell banks to stop using the voting facilities to store cash because it's cheaper to store in these large high security voting facilities. Massive massive crates of cash than to bring it back to the ECB the European Central Bank and store it there because they charge you the negative interest rate which is a lot more than the the private. So yeah I think it'll be the regulated ones first then it'll be you know I think tether will have a good shot exactly what dad said they bought Bitcoin very early on which was in my opinion extremely risky. Because they're basically taking all of these clients funds which are in a way creditors not really because they're buying something so it's not really security because they're not like you know holding it for their clients it's anyway it's they they bought Bitcoin with they were lucky the Bitcoin they bought at the bottom and Bitcoin's gone up way more than when they bought it. So they're sitting pretty and that's why they're being called the black rock of you know they're up there with black rock so I think they're sitting pretty they're already very very good at playing regulatory arbitrage the problem I see is that they're so big that it's extremely hard to just go oh you don't like us anymore fed like we're going to shift over to I don't know Estonia yeah try get try moving nearly a trillion dollars over to Estonia. It's going to be very very hard so there's there's size makes it very hard to be nimble and so that that could be the downfall so yeah but I do think it's a while from now. Ben Ark. Yeah I mean a bit more less positive I think there's probably a lot less money in the coffers I was I think the quote was I mean for cash I suppose it's cash which the guy access to the worst day they had they were able to honor all of the payments or something. That's from the this the lawyer speaking on behalf in the article but that they'll get you talk about you know people can be in band by your government or something then if the US are actually scared that's going to have an negative impact on our economy then these sorts of centralized statement coin solutions will get faced out through regulation not outright banning so obviously that would just create the right on the cause of the things that you're going to avoid but they'll be faced out through regulation is there's a lot of money. So regulation is you know Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies come into the light. Unfortunately I have to agree with Josh here the answer is years just like Ethereum was too big to regulate tether is too big to fail. I think we got the live stream working this week it seems like re-stream it is working so this is a great time for everybody to give us a thumbs up and if you haven't already just go down and push subscribe. 100,000 people push that subscribe button they would give us a little plaque so we would hang it up behind us on the virtual wall here so thumbs up subscribe and this important message from our sponsors WCN clips subscribe to the WCN clips channel and get clips from this show Christie's now accepts ether Miami mayor creates Miami coin see what we think about Twitter Bitcoin tipping and more on the WCN clips channel still a chance for you to be one of the first hundred subscribers to WCN clips moving on to issue three the SEC just approved the closest thing to a US Bitcoin ETF you can buy for now. The SEC is approved an ETF that tracks stocks with significant exposure to Bitcoin these firms hold a majority of their net assets in Bitcoin or derive a majority of their profit or revenue from Bitcoin related activities. Bound Chico wow wow this actively managed fund volt crypto industry revolution and tech ETF was approved on October 5th then arc have they solved all the problems you can't buy a Bitcoin ETF but you can find by a bit ETF made up of Bitcoin company stocks everything is fixed. Such a bro name is not and they were saying in the article about how it's up for a lot of see to get approval and they were blaming the fact that they've got such a good name. But I think in reality it's obviously you know. People just trying to wrap their heads round more of a Bitcoin ETF but they claim to in being that they go into invest 80% of their portfolio into. Bitcoin revolution companies or something revolutionizing Bitcoin companies. So that's great you know hopefully hopefully you know the Bitcoin in infrastructure ecosystem will get a big pump from that. And I think it's wise because now is a good time to be investing in Bitcoin companies. But yeah it's a yes another milestone you know we have an ETF which isn't cryptocurrency centric is Bitcoin centric so we're now ring down even further out way to eventually getting the ETF which just you know has Bitcoin. But yes it's it's it's very good very good an exciting news under the milestone and as marching into more of a Bitcoin friendly future. Dan Eve there's been a lot of revolutions they had a revolution during a revolution with a revolution. Will this company bring revolutions. Oh Dan disappears. I press the wrong button the wrong button like Wallace and Grommett's wrong trousers but at least my video came on and I have my trousers as well. So we're talking about thousands. And we on the this is the ETF right. ETF full of Bitcoin related stocks instead of buying stock. I think that the most the most exciting time for me in Bitcoin was actually when it was like the March ETF hype of of 2017 and it was just like everyone it was just like everyone was on the edge of their seats for it and it wasn't going to happen and it didn't happen but it was you know the hype around that that time was really crazy. But what makes me laugh is like you know Gensler is is is dubious about a Bitcoin ETF because of like market manipulation and yet all around the world I mean obviously it's not specifically the US but there's still money laundering from banks going on and finds left right and center. The most recent one is is the UK bank net west and laundering over 400 million of funds from a I think it was one specific company which is like a a jeweler or something like a real an old school jeweler of like a hundred year old sort of company. And they actually received one of the ones that received a 45 billion pound you know pay out from the 2008 crisis you know bailout which is savvy they didn't you know they could have taken that opportunity of having having fucked up like a bad bank naughty bank having to bail out 45 billion it's not small sum of money and yet they're still at their terrible ways of letting people laundering money whilst pointing fingers usually at Bitcoin being used for the ferris activities. The that west did come out and said we deeply regret it and they went on a bit of a rant about it and it just maybe think of like that South Park episode with BP in the oil spill worries like we're sorry we're sorry we're so sorry. You know that's that thing, but anyway progressive Canada of course if Canada have got they've got any Bitcoin ETF and i'm not sure how long it's been in for but you know they seem to be ahead of the game a bit progressive so there are obviously rumors that there will be one past soon of view of the US ETF but they may not be true though. True true. Oh. I'm a very humor. I'll get my kite. And so there is a Canadian ETF and nothing bad has happened. Josh Legala we're creeping closer and closer to an American Bitcoin ETF so that people could invest their stock market and retirement funds almost directly into Bitcoin what do you think about this Bitcoin stocks ETF offering. I mean the thing is that we're getting further or further away from Bitcoin and this is what the seems to be the notice operandi of the SEC rather than actually regulating the space there it seems to me like they're trying to protect. Something else because when Coinbase offered their 4% for their clients to be able to take their money out of their banks and put into Coinbase and earn 4% and using all these defa instruments that they use. The SEC did a full smackdown on them because how dare Coinbase offered 4% and it seems to me like if you have an ETF directly linked with Bitcoin it just widens the black hole from the legacy system into the modern system. So by them allowing you to have an ETF of a company of companies a pool of companies that accept this weird thing it seems to me like they're not there to actually protect consumers from investing in bad things but rather protect what they feel is the legacy system. From this modern system that's bubbling up from the ground up and this is unfortunate. I think there's a lot of opportunity that's being missed out because the regulators are making the laws around what can and can't be invested in and used in the system. So I don't know I mean some would say that's their job others would say that they're doing their job badly some would say they're doing your job well who might say but the fact of the matter is that we're getting further and further away from the crypto and this I feel would have flown maybe a few years ago but now it's so easy to invest in in cryptocurrency or Bitcoin especially that it's sort of useless. There are certain mandates on companies or initial contracts written up that they aren't allowed to invest in strange instruments and they are allowed to invest in ETFs so that would allow these companies but a lot of these companies have even rewritten their initial paperwork to allow certain investments. So you know as I say yeah it's good people should be able to trade what they want and make their own risk analysis. It's really important that society allows risk analysis to teach risk analysis because really that's what's missing that's why scams happen that's why people fall for scams because they're not educated enough. So this is what needs to happen more education and less less banning whole slots of society or slots of society from from investing in things rather let's educate what scams look like so that when one coin or a big connect comes along people go oh okay hang on this and this is a red flag I'm not going to invest in that and this is what the SEC really should be doing is that they're not going to invest in that. It really should be doing is educating. She's got huge tracks huge tracks of land but let's build on what Josh is saying go to the exit question should the SEC allow ETFs in America or should they continue protecting the investors from the potential damages of an ETF. Then arc our investors ready are the companies ready is their private storage their security are they ready. Yeah absolutely go go for it yeah it's ready everything's ready do it. Dan Eve yes or no are they ready. It's ready and Josh a go. Yeah I mean yeah absolutely do it just do it I mean every every ever on the rest of the world's doing it so what America what are you doing. There's lots of. There's lots of access to Bitcoin but there's not access for an SEC approved ETF yet but it would be cool if they did it moving on to issue for the next one. That's right. Curio cards plus launched just yesterday with myself some of the other co founders of Curio cards and three of the original Curio card artists who have joined us to make new cards. There's new NFTs happening in the world Josh a go what do you think about the relaunch of Curio cards and the incredible success of the original Curio cards at the Christie's auction. What a fun fascinating is that you know Curio cards have for me great value because they were the very first NFT on on Ethereum and in terms of a collectible and so that that to me is fascinating and and I see that there's this over hyped boom of of these NFTs now that it's it's such a massive bubble. There's there's certain things that I think are really really important here is that artists that have built a name done the hard yards really worked hard to build their brand can start to allow their artwork to be treated. So that's that puts them aside from just someone creating something a million times with different variations and selling it that stuff's getting boring I think it'll move out of that realm very very quickly. Things like the first will always be valuable things like that but I'm really excited that that you guys created the very first NFT on on the theorem and now adding to that collection some would say that that's well you're turning on the printers. But I don't feel so I think there's like the first collection and then there's you know the second collection so they're different in terms of the psychology of what people would be is a collectible so I think I think it's really really nice that you guys are taking that. That that thing and running with it and I'm looking forward to seeing what the artists come up with. It is pretty amazing to have them sold at Christie's and to have the first set and then now the second set there are just so many more artists who could use promotion and it's kind of like a magazine to help promote these artists bringing on new artists as well as the original artists and just in general making more NFTs because it's fun it's why we got into this in the first place. Then are your thoughts on Curio card NFTs and I am in general I wasn't here for because I think one of the last shows I did it was about to go to Christie's and then I wasn't here for the for the episodes around Christie's. So I have absolutely and I'm also just being out of touch could be busy moving and whatever else hence the new student by the way. So I have no idea how well they did it Christie's did they do really well these Curio cards well they sold for a million dollars there is a handful of bidders they were at the high end of the full collection the full collection they were at the high end of the Christie's range of the expected sales so they they satisfied sales they didn't overwhelm. But again it's just completely crazy yeah Ben you you've been gone a while since your friends old startup project from 2017 sold at an impossible opportunities. It's incredible and I remember seeing those videos on YouTube because you were doing and I watched maybe a couple of them but I really like the fact that you know you're obviously promoting artists and you're giving them some sort of greater audience. But I think the most important thing is is back then when clearly you know you and a few others started building this industry the same industry there wasn't you know they just wasn't monetary reward that it was just it was you're doing it for the love of it and the fact that you could create scarcity of somebody's artwork and then have it in a tradable way but not in a million years would you have considered you know. But those collections of cards with empty sort of Christie's for a million dollars which is the difference now everybody who's making these NFTs on these drag and drop NFT building programs. They're all doing it you know thinking they're going to make a whole load of money and some of them may some of them some of them probably won't. One of my neighbors was talking to me NFTs the other day and I thought was this is probably time to jump ship but actually you know. Things like video games and stuff like that the having things which are actually scarce and provably scarce is still huge and just in in our digitally native realm which more and more of a spend our time like you need scarcity and. NFTs have barely scratched the site you know for what their potential is and their potential actual potential value and I think you're a cards as part of the historical journey and also such interesting project as well because they're encapsulating you know they were. I mean as with you know things like rep happy as well they were off their time and they tell part of that story I think they're going to have tremendous value and it makes sense that. I know that you know you personally want to keep your cards going much longer than they did originally as a project that so must be really nice for you to now there is some sort of you know. Momentum behind the project people people know about it must be nice for you to to be able to you know. Resuscitate the project which you very much enjoy working on and then also you know have it as as my perhaps a way of earning some sats and getting some income as well but I had a look through the website and it was great and it is a. There's nice some of seeing some of those old pictures as well from the Bitcoin San Francisco meet ups and then yeah I can see like why you know your friends with someone like wreck has read for me is just sort of sort of a scam mechanic character but obviously he was in the same he had his hands in many pies and using the San Francisco meet ups and he's working on you is on interesting projects as well as you know some some more dubious projects such as the Curricard things as well. So yeah it's great it's good luck to you and I'm it's incredible that they did some other Christie's and it's a very new world. I want to echo what Ben and Josh said where the Curricards are kind of different than the generative art projects it's not like a punk with a cigar or a punk with shade or he has green hair whatever there are a lot more like an artist print where you can afford the original no no one can really afford original art. But if the artist makes Prince of it and they sign them and they number them like one of a hundred sometimes you know a normal person can afford that and I think that's a really neat thing and it's a connection to the artist like when I collect a signed book or something like that I'm getting something that the artist touched I'm getting a connection to them and in the same way these unique signatures that make up the NFTs are the connection to the artists they are the. It'll be. You'll become standard to factor I imagine that you'll walk through an arc gallery years to come and there'll be the option to buy the painting or buy the print or buy the NFT like it would just be another option you know to submit that connection with the artist like you say. And it's amazing to have come this far because when we tried to introduce it first no one was interested no one understood it even you know we had kind of small sales yesterday gas prices are crazy but when we originally launched it we had no sales we didn't have 20 people and. People chat about it we had nothing so having anybody at all that thinks these are cool cards and wants to take a risk on them and wants to collect them is just very exciting so it's a whole new landscape. I mean I'll be honest I I I can see it at all and I'm seeing this video is just thinking you're off your head like what's this thing I didn't even. I didn't know you into this I don't know your art but I didn't realize you're into this this sort of world is the rap high stuff. But I had a mate recently showed me a rap epic card which they bought for you know X amount of thousands of pounds and now it's like you know a nine hundred thousand pound million almost a million pound rap epic card and at the time when they bought it for X amount of thousands of pounds I was thinking you an idea what have you done why have you done that I was like you know how other people were speaking to you know about bits of the Bitcoin for example I was like that but NFTs I was completely not really wrong. They got tremendous value and the very important to our future society. I'm a. Well and back in the day I even had to kind of hide that I was working on the project like I didn't want to promote it too much on the world crypto network or I had to do it on the mad bitcoins or I do it on the Kiro cards video channel itself because I don't want to piss off my hard core Bitcoin maximalist partners at the time like Tony Jimmy and other people who would just hang you if you tried anything else in the system. And I also want to give a shout out again to Theo good. Go open he was selling his foot from foot from the box he was trying to doctonators by rap epic. I made speeches he went around he gave presentations. We had a thing on the Bitcoin group where every answer he tried to make it about rare Pepe which was a little much we told him to stick it at the end of the show and to still promote it like we're not not banning it like he says now which is strange. But it were just like not every question has to be the repair I love you man but like not every question but he took that wrong and he still mad at me on Twitter and I I wish he wasn't and he also has very right wing political views and likes to mock people online which is his choice you communicate how you want to communicate but yeah I miss Theo I'm sorry we can't talk to him that he's angry at us now. But I hope that he has enough rare Pepe to buy an island and I hope that buys him satisfaction and happiness and like and I hope he bought the rare Pepe I don't this isn't one of those things like I don't want to mention the names but some people support things early on and then they they sell them because people convinced them and then it's sad when they succeed so hopefully Theo has a thousands of rare Pepe is very happy and selling the auctions and again he can give the same speech that he gave years ago but now at huge conventions. And they'll love all the jokes and we loved all the jokes I love to speeches at Essen and other places where I got to see Theo speak but again I wish Theo the best he's angry at me that that happens. It's not like yeah he is it's all on Twitter he's like he just he likes to get angry I don't know but rare Pepe's are cool I always said they were cool I was always like. Yeah he did get in much every single week in every single answer every question was rare Pepe's book in hindsight he was probably trying to do us all a big favor making this by rare Pepe's. It's another thing where the Bitcoin maximalism causes you sometimes to miss out on these opportunities I remember when we talked about Ethereum and the crowd sale I'm sure I said it and I don't it doesn't matter you say whatever you want if you buy things you buy things but I said maybe we should take a flyer on this Ethereum maybe we should say well maybe we're wrong and maybe it goes crazy. And I didn't do it I took no flyers but anyone that took a flyer on that crowd sale killed it and the same if you bought rare Pepe's early and a lot of these other things sometimes you rewarded for taking risks and even if you're a max list and you like Bitcoin or whatever you could still take a risk if you want you can still like really love Bitcoin but again at the time they'll string you up for that. So Dan Eve your thoughts on Curio cards the auction and new Curio cards. Well it really is incredible that it reached Christie's right so that means that your your picture on on the cars like in the 007 type the outfit right is it that one way you like you know see that's amazing yeah yeah There's a couple of them isn't there so why don't you one card with a mad bitcoins with a big mustache is another two. Yeah absolutely incredible like what a victory as well for something that you know put a lot of effort into you and the team and it took so long to reach fruition and you know and like Ben saying it's like one of those things where like you know people who say NFTs the collectables you know that you know I heard about initially the first collectables I heard about where they're rare Pepe's on counterparty and I actually got involved in multiple other I literally backed all the wrong horses all the the me mixed changes the Keck Dach and all the other shit I went into all failed unfortunately but I knew I knew there was something there I knew there was something something there but no absolutely incredible and it's really cool that you're you're bringing it back as well and trying to not make it a big kind of money sweep right it's about it's more about the it's more about the collectability and making it kind of the traditional because you know you've always been about the like baseball you've loads of times that you've mentioned like baseball stamp baseball collected and yeah in in in in in my rap I talk about it like bag hodling philateles like a stamp collector and because that's what these these art pieces are they like it's collecting stamps it's collecting arts collecting a piece of history so yeah I think it's absolutely incredible and and I think I said that it would go for the for the upren I think I did make my my my what's the word prediction may have been in the multi millions but it was over a million and that's incredible so I'm absolutely yeah I'm absolutely chuffed it's just it's again it's another real world like leap into the real world right and art is a really difficult thing to break you know when you're competing with things like you know Mona Lisa's and and and pistachios and now that's that's probably and that's a that's a type of nut some art whatever I'm not really into my art but when you're competing with you know you know mahogany desks from the 1300s and all sorts of random stuff like that getting digitized like images in there in in the form of NFTs is absolutely game changing incredible so yeah absolutely well done it's not just images you know albums songs podcasts the community yeah it has been pretty incredible and and like you said Dan it's it's all about the artists while we are launching Curio Plus with some of the original Curio card artists the goal for me there is really to get to the new artists and maybe we can group the new artists with a larger artist in a middle artist and small artists and kind of do a pack that way and help all the artists at the same time but if you're an artist out there and you have work you can still make your NFTs but you could also make a Curio card NFT kind of like a magazine a thing to promote you like put a couple NFTs the magazine do your own NFTs everyone works together so if you've got NFTs join us in the discord we've got a link on the mad bitcoins Twitter account and we'd love to have your art in the collection soon so that's really what's about it's I wouldn't do it if we weren't doing it you know we don't need the cash grab that's not really the thing we want them to be valuable we want them to be collectors and things and we hopefully will get investors and will form a company which is again always been transparent Curio cards has always been a company it's always been a startup company reds a professional programmer even though Ben said the other stuff but he also is a professional and you got to pay him and that takes a company and if you want to have really nice stuff and not to say that you know we've made the best launch we're working on the web page working on the bundles you know we're trying to fix things but you know having that structure having that corporation to support you is one of the big reasons why I think larva labs with crypto punks has advertisements in time square and they have such a great community and they have all the support and these really cool websites with you know and we have a good website too but you know they just have more and they have this structure and I think board apiatt club the same thing so if you want to have a road back you want to have a structure you want to have new artists I think it's a good project but let's move on to the exit question Josh mentioned it briefly other than digital collectables which I like and like Dan said they're like baseball cards what other uses excite you for NFTs things like ticket stubs or access special clubs rewards for customers receipts Josh Shagala go ahead. Yeah I think ticket sales are always a good one there's been a bunch of startups that have tried none of them have succeeded but there's you know you guys tried in the early days it was before the time and there's this thing in startups a lot of VCs that I've talked to over the years you know realize that sometimes projects are just too early but I think the times come for NFTs are the ticket sales the real problem there is the technology in terms of understanding so when you get the NFT and understanding is the great thing about that is that price discovery is something that has never really been a thing for for the south the only thing that has price discovery they try to ban so scalpers are like this bad evil awful thing I'm a part of the price discovery mechanism of a concert now you might think I'm just an evil capitalist for saying that tickets might should be maybe costing more but I'm not saying that at all it's just that if you're an artist and you say okay my tickets are worth I'm going to price them at X I don't know how much people are willing to pay or how much you know capacity or sometimes the whole thing sold out and I could have actually earned a little bit more and had a bigger show and I don't know done a bit more and actually had a price discovery if we allowed the secondary market to actually come in pick a price and the great thing is with NFT ticket sales you can continue earning every time a scalper sells that ticket maybe they sell it for cheaper because no one actually wanted it and you overpriced your tickets or they might get more expensive in which case you also get a cut as the original because the NFT follows the sales through so I think that's a really important step in terms of price discovery for art once you know the world opens back up I've said many times about how Andreas told such a great story back in the day about how every kid on the playground would have their own coin and there'd be Freddie coin and Joey coin and Johnny coin and they could trade against each other Freddie's more popular than Johnny Joey has a party it seems like NFTs might actually be those personal coins Ben arc what ideas about the future of NFTs excite you Little Joey shit coin in the playground for shillin and spags video games items of video games I think that's fascinating but currently what we've seen is a lot of Bitcoin companies trying to build computer games around NFTs and that's stupid But as soon as you know your fortnight or your war the war craft or some of the big popular game which has some sort of collectible things in it then you can have some sort of actual ownership over those things as soon as soon as that happens then that that's going to that's going to be great but kids are going to be totally adopted They'll be marketplaces and they'll be trading weapons and whatever else on these marketplaces and they'll be interesting to see where I don't know whether or not I encouraged that I'm not sure but I just remember you know like something like CS go I remember teaching kids and they would spend a lot of money just getting these little boxes on CS go and they'd open a box and get like a gun with some pattern on it and then you could even in CS go and they could even get it They could put a box and get like a gun with some pattern on it and then you could even in CS go you could like look at charts and look at that because you could I think you could sell the guns as well you could trade them with each other but their value wars went down because they were just producing more and more of these things because the kids were just by them but if you could have something with some proof of scarcity to it I think that would make that experience a bit better whether or not because I don't know if I suppose a kind of a form of gambling or speculation but yeah computer games, computer games, rare tokens and computer games Well and the idea I really want on that one and I'm going to keep saying it until some of you does it I want one game to feel the other game I want the game to say oh you can use that sword in that game well now that sword equals this gun in this game and this high reading of the assets and even things like old assets like crypto punks or curacards or even rare pennies like make it so that if you have those in the game your spaceship flies faster I mean you may even have like a rare item in a game everybody saw somehow you know alex to have value because that's how it works isn't it and then you may have like a spin off game just based around how that item came into being or something should be kind of a fascinating concept so tell Finny let's do my little rant again when he was working for Mattel he made a game in 1982 the adventures of Tron for the Atari and on the blurb on the back it says that Tron has to jump round in the digital world collecting collectibles or something so you imagine how Finny back in 1982 with his feet up on the table in Mattel thinking collectibles digital world how are they going to be scarce because you just make more of them how are we going to be scarce so I love this little piece of yeah there's probably an Ft this and how wrote that email or that forum poster wherever we did talk about crypto trading cards and he talked about this idea and certainly I was aware of that I'm sure the rare pet pay guys the spells of Genesis guys everybody owes to how Finny yeah it's got a Dan Eve your thoughts on the future of NFTs tickets and beyond yeah I think I think the tickets is a really good idea and the fact that you know artists they don't you know reap the rewards of tickets being sold on in the secondary market so I think Josh said the nail on the head there that it's another way that you know artists always kind of breaking out of the YouTube breaking out of the Spotify services trying to you know make more money from from from their producers and and that so I think it's a really good idea that they can actually get money back from when their tickets being traded so Ray one post poet is asking Tom in the in the chat about how does how there's 3000 serial numbered cards on sale at OpenC so where is the serial number so are you able to give us a quick quick demo I can give you the best information that I have so previously with the original Kerio cards we didn't have a serial number I am aware of serial numbers and serializations and cards but we couldn't have everything for those early cards I also wanted to do packs and stuff like that what we couldn't do it with these new cards I I've talked to the technical people and they tell me that there are serial numbers but they're concerned about people over valuing them so right now it's kind of like a random serial number so if you buy it from the market later the serial number will be revealed there might be a technical way for you to determine which one of the cards rolled out of the machine first I'm it's up to you as a technologist to figure that out if you want to but yeah our goal is to do serial numbers they're not currently as visible as I would like if you compare OpenC to atomic assets or wax wax does a really good job of putting the serial number in the upper right hand corner we don't seem to have that on OpenC could be a mistake we are you know kind of new to this in the modern era we're doing our best so maybe the next set of cards will have more visible serial numbers but yeah we're aware of it we want them I believe that they're there but yeah they're not being revealed now I don't know how valuable that is to you if that's the like the buyer sell decision for you that's the best information I have Dan are there any other questions no I think I think I think that's I think that's it and if he's a pretty cool I think there's a lot of scope in future to see how it kind of all evolves well I'm excited to I think one of the things to remember about this name OpenC is that that's actually a whole concept a whole concept of thought and if you think about the NFTs it really is an OpenC Kerio cards are there rare pet bays are there new Kerio cards crypto punks all these things and can Bozak NFTs and there's plenty of room for more I hope that Theo Goodman will make his own NFTs I look forward to Theo pet bays or Bitcoin potatoes or whatever they are and I hope that everyone else who wants to make NFTs can make them too because Ethereum NFTs are expensive gas fees are expensive we did that for the new round of the Kerio cards plus I don't know if we're going to stick with that I rolled up a polygon NFTs this morning very easy to do didn't have quite all the features I want to do I've tried all the features I wanted like bundles but it was fun and I was able to reward the audience which was my goal and again anyone can do that I'm not blocking anyone from do that I hope everyone does it and I hope everyone enjoys the cards it's a collectible it's worth what someone will pay you for it or it's worth what you believe it's value is if it's important to you if you like the art enjoy it so and I hope that artists will join the discord and we can make some new cards I think we're heading towards the end of the show still a good chance to give us a thumbs up even if you're watching on the recorded version like he'll never know if I give the thumbs up or not he's not really watching me well I am watching you I can see through that camera and if you push the thumbs up I'm going to know about on YouTube and then you know some guys won't visit you your house the thumbs up please so but we're running out of time when you predictions or story of the week I know that Ben is ready with a prediction or a story of the week it's been weeks and weeks Ben you've got a new shed there a new backdrop what's going on Ben with a prediction or a story of the week Not not that much ready sorry I mean yeah yeah moved house that that took a lot of time and then I was working a couple of projects like that the offline point of sell thing which I'm just trying to finish up the tutorial for now actually I just some workshops for that in probably polis and that was that was cool going out because I've never been there before and I know you've been there this it's quite a building isn't it they've got the big comfort halls and they've got the you know they've got the the board down stairs and everyone's so welcoming to me they've got to really the board dollars is great hacks based downstairs So yeah it's funny because they get the downstairs in the in the parallel police they've got a hack space of somebody's they called it the board down there's big red board outside you can feel a bit sleazy when you walk downstairs to it but then you walk in just to introduce a bit some computer so it's fine unless that's what you're into I suppose unless you know But yeah so that's right really not much else I'm glad to be back on the show it's really fun to be back on the show thanks for having me and I'm super stoked about the curicard thing that's just blown my brain so Well Ben tell us more about the point of sale machine I know in the past they had little cards that you could use at parallel any polis where you could pay with Bitcoin oh that was good yeah Not with lightning now tell the people about that that's cool. Yeah so the Mario one of the veterans in the the board our hack space. They've got these payment NFC tags which haven't got with me actually but they they're you know you you wore on your neck and then you could go you could use to pay for things back in the day you could pay in Bitcoin or in Litecoin if you didn't want to stand there at the coffee machine for 10 minutes because you're paying on chain. But now obviously we've got lightning network and and Mario he used Alan URL with drawn Alan URL pay so you have two buttons on the tag when you press the Alan URL Pay it means you can go up to the ATM put some cash him and then press the Alan you know so Alan URL with draw and it would actually fund your wallet and then you've then got funds on your little thing and then you could go up and pay for coffees and pay for beers just at the regular normal points of sale which are actually made by general bites such as mine is not here to show that they don't sadly make them anymore but these points of sales were originally made by general bites because general bites have such excellent remarkable after care and customer service they've now worked in an update so it has Alan URL support which is is an income read by NFC these Alan URLs. So a big shout out to general bites for that because they made it possible it was amazing to see the whole conference running on these little payment tags whichever had around their next people who I've respected for you know for years to see them paying for their coffees and beers because so the Alan URL server which is running behind all this stuff was Alan bits so that was running in the background and that was that was handling all the Alan URL stuff for these for these tags so I was I was kind of dorking out like the fact that our software was powering up and then you can see the thing she was using to pay for the coffees and the beers and they did a lot of volume I did a lot of volume I drank a lot of coffee drank a lot of beer so hopefully I'll have that work tutorial out finish late stand up post on more crypto network it's nice to produce some video stuff again because I've done that for a while it's always a balancing out between like making stuff and producing like content and whatever but it's going to be back on the show as well so thanks for having me. See you had a huge story of the week the Ellen bits library of tools that you and fiat Jeff and many others out there work to maintain and create was used by other people to interface with general bites old point of sale machine which did Bitcoin enlightening a Bitcoin like coin but now does more and all this interface it worked people able to pay everyone at the conference major deal been big deal this is like when you did the video game machines and San Francisco and people could pay to play video games with the lightning network it's revolutionary work people are going to recognize that they're going to figure it out now we're going to Dan Eve who seems to have something else going on Dan are you ready which camera should we go to here. The mobile one I think I've completely my my MacBooks completely frozen so unfortunately I've got a big close up of my hairy chest that that wasn't in the other one so so my story of the week is a bit more a bit more a bit more basic it's not basic no so every now and then I haven't been really good all I went to New York approximately days and right there I haven't really done much of my with my music but every now and then. I get a bit of inspiration because like Adam back will just tweet me out of nowhere and say I've you had about this wrap and and so my story of the week was just that my heart was warm by Adam back you know tweeting about my rap and yeah that's that's my story of the week so that's that's about all I've got to say about about that thank you very much Adam if you're watching. I love to see them and then somehow like working the Adam back. Reconciliation yeah yeah no what I should maybe maybe I'll I'll like NFT each verse and then do one of the whole I don't know I have to speak to someone who's an NFT person with music is like you know where did he even store that I mean I know one customer you're gonna have. Like yeah Adam back that's true yeah maybe so put on red tochi put on red tochi I don't put it on liquid he prefers liquid. Yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yeah indeed sweet thank you very much Adam it's very cool Dan and I just saw recently on our this day in world crypto network history thanks to DJ booth and Marwee for doing the tweets on that it was about four years ago today that we first went to I don't remember I think it was Riga Latvia to go to a conference and we interviewed Adam back with Max Hill brand in the courtroom at the conference because we just set up there and then everybody came through their codes and we grabbed them for interviews and Adam was so nice to us and so personful and and just kind with his time and generous and it was great to talk to him and to get you know his thoughts and opinions and we've been really fortunate to interview him several times since so shout out to Adam back shout out to parallel and he pull us and miss I miss Europe and all our fun that we used to have Josh a go we're running out of time still a prediction or a story of the week you go so much happening that yeah we're basically doing a lot of R&D on on zero knowledge proofs and zero knowledge validity on the second layer to see if we can speed shit up there this really fascinating work and yeah it's interesting just to run contracts on main chain and on layer two and have them talking to each other this is this is really cool stuff so that's something we're working on the standard but I just like the viewers at home to know that walking is always time well spent unplug your brain get ready to phone go for a walk you know it's really important to it for your own mental health the other thing is buying acres of undeveloped land is the new flex and get out there build a farm start farming get off the grid get into Bitcoin get rid of plastics and and that's let the let the evolution begin farming is Josh well thanks again to everybody for joining us be sure to give us a thumbs up and a subscribe down below check out Curio cards plus if you're a new artist or if you have a friend that's an artist wants to get started NFT head them our way come on down to the discord and shout out to Theo again I hope he's doing well I love to see him again if we ever travel again but thanks so much everybody for watching until next time