The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest sitoshis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Josh Shigala from Voltoro. Hey, Hadi Hoathops. Adam McBride from the Adam McBride show. Let's go. Ethan's money. Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Well, somebody please think of the Bitcoin. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one. Crypto markets wipe out $150 billion of value within hours of China's latest Bitcoin ban. But first, let's book back at a history of the Bitcoin Group and China Bitcoin bands brought to you by worldcryptonetwork.com created by DJ Booth in Australia. Let's check it out. Remember just a little while ago on July 9, 2021, Bitcoin Group number 266 when China cracked down on crypto. Issue one. Limited capacity logistics to slow Chinese Bitcoin miners global shift. China is continuing to move Bitcoin miners out of China, but it's taking longer than you might think, unplugging all those computers and moving them somewhere else to plug them in. Also, China continues to crack down on Bitcoin, taking down a company that was suspected of providing software services for virtual currency transactions. For years, China has signaled that it wants to ban Bitcoin. They could be looking to stem capital outflows by stablecoins and crypto currencies next, or it could be all part of their hundredth anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party. Be sure to give us a thumbs up down below if you're just starting to watch the show. Ben Arck. Who could forget back on November 4, 2016, Bitcoin Group number 115 when China banned Bitcoin? 2. Issue 2. Bitcoin takes on report that China is considering a crackdown. The cryptocurrency Bitcoin hit a low of 787 after seeing the heights of 740 and 745. Just look at the price of Bitcoin in this chart from Bloomberg. It's been up and down fighting for the 700 barrier with a 4 month high of 743 on Thursday. There is worry that Chinese authorities think that investors are using Bitcoin to illegally move money out of the country. Gabriel D. Vine, I ask you. And of course, before that on the Bitcoin Group number 30 live from May 16, 2014. Following this Sunday in Hong Kong, Bitcoin Museum meet up place and more. Make the Bitcoin robot dance at hkbittcoinhtm.com. On a similar note, hundreds attend China's first Bitcoin summit defying Beijing's warning. China issue 3, China Bitcoin boom. China is ignoring warnings or perhaps heating them as good advice and getting into Bitcoin anyway. It's attended the Bitcoin conference in China and Bitcoin businesses are moving offshore to get away from influence and plan to continue operating. Is Bitcoin truly the cyberpunk international currency of the future now that it is both banned and actively in use worldwide? And of course, back on the Bitcoin Group number 2 from September 13, 2021. I think Dovey made a good point about the tulips. But it's not totally analogous with that because at the end of the day, the tulips were all valueless. Bitcoin is something that's very exciting and it makes sense that there would be a mania around it. The question is, how long will that mania last? We're still heading up, eventually I think. I think it lasts until it's a global currency because every time there's a fresh influx of Bitcoin users, those users are their newbies, they're virgins. And so they come in with a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of volatility. And so every time there's a new crop of people, they're going to panic more, they're going to buy and sell faster and it's going to take them a couple of crashes and burns before they calm down like the rest of us. And so we're going to see that until it's everybody. Exit question. The value of Bitcoin will go up or down. Dovey Barker. I think it's going up. I don't think I have any trouble. I say it's going up in the short term and the long term. And J.S. It's going to bounce around chaotically in the short term but in the long term, Bitcoin can't do a gradual rise. It can only do explosive. In the long term, we're going to the moon. Issue 2. Bitcoin's in China. Popular Chinese exchange, BTC China, is operating without exchange fees during the Chinese holiday. The price of a Bitcoin in China is surging. The government is turning a blind eye. Is China the new engine of Bitcoin in China we trust? I ask you, Dovey Barker. Obviously, as you can tell, China and Bitcoin have been on this show again and again and again. And just recently this last year, China banned Bitcoin mining, knocking all of the machines out of their country. Josh Shigala, what do you think about the latest Chinese ban? Is this the end of it? Obviously, it's all over the mainstream media. It's the craziest thing if you play the Bitcoin crypto drinking game with CNBC. You'd be dead right now. Every five minutes, crypto CNBC, Bitcoin, Ethereum, crypto out of control. Josh, good. Yeah. By the way, that last video with Andreas isn't 2021. I don't know why that says that on the video. Oh, yeah, that's the re-upload from this year. It's probably 2014. Yeah, right, right, got you. Well, look, it's so funny, isn't it? Actually, what I find quite interesting is that the price has usually done very dramatic things in the early days of 2014, when China banned Bitcoin, it would do a full on dump, like full on diarrhea. And then the next one, full on again, little bit less. This one, full on again, little bit less. This one, I mean, I hardly even really know it. Yeah, it went down from like 37 down to what, 35, something like that. Where are we? It just wasn't really that much of a, I didn't really notice that much. All I noticed was the news in total chaos about it. And that's the other interesting thing. I feel like all the new newbie news outlets are like obsessed with China-Bans Bitcoin, when all of the old schoolers are like, what, again? And this is old saying that my Chinese friends say that is like the land is vast and the emperor is far away. And it comes, that's so true for a lot of the Chinese people, they just don't care, they'll move forward and they'll keep using Bitcoin, Ethereum, crypto. Actually, one thing that I find interesting with the China ban, and this comes for other countries that ban it. What you're really banning here is the on and off ramps and the mining. And this is where I feel like proof of stake does have an advantage over proof of work, because there's guarantee will be Chinese proof of stake miners mining all over the place, because it's very hard to determine that's what they're doing if you're encrypting properly. So whereas proof of work, really, you just can't get away from it. If it's truly hardcore illegal and you're going to prison, it's kind of hard to hide gigawatts of power just getting drained from a city without your front door getting knocked down. So that's the only thing about proof of work is it's kind of hard to hide when it gets to mass scale. Although, you know, saying that, it's kind of hard to find if you've just got a single Mayan or running and it could be that you just really love to have saunas every day. But yeah, let's see what happens. The Chinese people are very, very clever. They get around staff. They have for years. There's nothing really that stops them. Bitcoin is, as I like to say, the fainting goat of money, as well as the honey badger. It gets tipped over by the clap of China and then stand straight back up again. So it's, yeah, I'm not too concerned. It's never too late. Adam McBride, welcome back to the show. Oh, what do you think? China news, the biggest news in the world, a complete disaster or nothing to worry about? It's good to be back, by the way. And what it is, I see it's the battle of good and evil. I mean, it's just what it is. It's the battle of good and evil. And you see what authoritarians do, which is grab as much power as they potentially can. I hope Josh is right. I don't know many Chinese people. So I pray he's right that the Chinese people are industrious and can keep a little bit of control for themselves or try to maintain some sort of control for themselves. Because the reality is, is what this is, is a, is more power grab by an authoritarian regime. And every one of us who's living in the free world needs to pay attention to this because when your government comes for you and your crypto, be very aware what this is. This is a grab for continued power and to never let the reins of power go. So head on a swivel, you gotta be really careful. Dan Eve, Henny Penny, the sky is falling. Everything is over for Bitcoin. China has banned it once more. No, it's just, it's whack them all all over again. Prohibition never works. I think I really like that saying, you know, just said about the emperor, the land is vast and the emperor is far away, right? I think there's always ways you can, you can dodge it if you really want to mind Bitcoin. And again, also what just said about the on and off ramps, that's the, that's the kind of key area where they've got the most sniffers. But if you're just setting up a node and you can run a VPN, you can get around these sorts of things. The, with regards to the hash rate sort of dropping, it's back up to one, one 48 route, roughly one 48 exercises from a low of something like 68 after it dropped after the kind of recent China ban. But you know, Bitcoin's brilliance as its resilience. And I think the fact is that it keeps on as again, as Josh said, you made lots of good points. It drops less and less each time. And maybe that's because, you know, the people that are in it, the longer they're in for, the more they know that it's just, you know, China ban is just part of the cycle. And the rest of the world, I think, especially El Salvador is, is a prime example of one man's trash is another man's treasure or like, you know, one, one opportunity, one person's opportunity is another person's threat. And for El Salvador implementing Bitcoin is a, is a definitely an opportunity for China. They see it as a threat. They're rolling out the digital one. Maybe this is a bit of a sign that it's failing, right? Or at least it's not getting the take that they take up that they hoped for. So I just think that you're going to keep playing whack-a-mole and the people will decide and they're voting with their miners and they're voting with their transactions and they're voting Bitcoin. I just think it's a real stunning reversal here. We always used to talk about how China had a major advantage and how China was where all the mining happened and you built the chips in China. It took them across the street. You started mining right away and how the US and other countries might reject Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies because they were based in China because they were reliant on China. So China did us a real favor getting rid of the mining and now China again is advertising Bitcoin to everyone by banning it. The media was all freaked out about this. Everybody in the media was saying, this is a disaster Bitcoin and Ethereum. They said Bitcoin Ethereum every five minutes today on CNBC. If you were playing the CNBC Bitcoin and crypto-drinking game, you'd be dead now. So this is good for Bitcoin, good for China, good for Chinese people. It's going to blow over. They can't ban forever. I agree with Dan. I think it's just short-term advertising for the digital you want. It's going to be great. The digital you want is a fantastic project. I'm sure everyone will love it just like they love the social credit system. No one gets sarcastic. I think you guys always. You guys definitely lean towards how Bitcoin is doing. Bitcoin's its own entity and it is. The life of Bitcoin has and how it's doing and that's something to be aware of. I appreciate all your views on that. But I think from a personal perspective, yes, there will be those certain individuals in China who are smart enough and industry enough and rich enough to mine Bitcoin or be involved in crypto. But it's just like if they banned it in the US, the vast, vast majority of people will never touch it because they don't want to get in trouble. So for humanity, it's a real negative in my mind. This is also an advantage for the US and the other so-called free nations to adopt Bitcoin to adopt Bitcoin mining to adopt Ethereum, solar mining, all kinds of other and viral-friendly mining. Josh, what do you think? The thing is that it's very easy for us to say that they will ban Bitcoin or ban crypto. But it's an almost impossible task. It's not just Bitcoin, like cryptocurrency. You're talking like are you going to really stop a kid playing a game where his gun skin is an NFT and that can be traded somewhere else? And that's just one part of a billion different things in the DeFi space where there's profit to be made by staking something or adding liquidity to an automated market maker in the DeFi space and you're actually turning a good APY. Like, it's a very, very hard beast to stop. Sure. You know, it's one of those things where if I look at the internet, I'm surprised that they've been able to really have like little clippy animated where they have this like cop come out and says, you shouldn't be looking at this. This is a negative score for you. Like these are the sorts of stories. And here and I'm pretty amazed that they've been able to control the internet. So maybe they can control this space as well. But I really highly doubt it because it's so vast and different and there's so many, so many parts and moving parts to this whole ecosystem. Plus you've got the incentive of money and becoming wealthy. So they've got an extreme uphill battle. And yeah, while I agree with you, it's the full on industrial technocrats that will get around all this stuff and it's the poor peasants that won't understand it. We'll stay in the dark cages and then suck up their CBDCs. But really, there is, there's the ecosystems vast. And so I just can't imagine how they will bad math. Well, the cultural revolution may be incompatible with the internet, but that doesn't mean it's not coming soon to an internet near you. Josh is right. They have been able to control the internet. They've controlled the image of Winnie the Pooh now. They've controlled Tiananmen Square and they're going to give a try at controlling Bitcoin. Moving on to the exit question. How long will China's nonsensical Bitcoin ban last one year, three year, five years, or more Joshua? Shikigawa. Oh, officially, I think they could make it last for as long as they want, but unofficially, it's kind of like, you know, you can say something and something totally else is happening. Kind of like in high inflationary countries, like Venezuela, they'll have the official inflation rate, which is total nonsense and garbage, it doesn't make any sense because the actual inflation rates on the streets. So it'll be kind of the same. Yes, it's bad, yet everyone in certain sections of the city will be like trading and doing stuff and hey, by the way, there's a, you know, I remember when New York first brought in their bit license and it was banned there, right? Had the similar thing there. And all of a sudden we had people actually in it, you know, going and doing the, the old street auctions where people would go and be at an ask live on the street. And that was, that was also fascinating. But yeah, I don't think it's going to last very long in reality, but it could last a very long time in their false narrative. Adam McBride. I love that. I'm hopeful Josh is right about that. I don't, like I said, I don't know enough Chinese people to know what they're really like. I pray that that people are that industrious and hopefully they still are in China. Because I know, you know, a lot of Venezuelans here and you get beat down long enough and you stop kind of fighting for stuff. So I'm hopeful that he's right and that the Chinese people really do take that on as like a responsibility because they know it's better for themselves. So hey, I'm all for that. Do I, I think it's going to be banned our entire life? I can't imagine them ever coming back and allowing cryptos ever in that country. I think it's just they are looking at our crypto can be the national crypto. And we know exactly what everybody's spending on everything and we control everything. It's literally 1984. It's a perfect scenario for them. Dan Eve. Well, did each time that they banned it, did they ever officially un-banned it? Or did they just kind of, because I can't remember like an event when they went, we're not, it's not banned anymore. You know, it's almost like this is just a reiteration of like, oh, you know, that hasn't worked. We're going to have to ward them again. Like, yeah, crypto, crypto is banned again. Now, please listen to us this time. It's double secret ban now double secret ban. Yeah. I think it's, you know, it's one of these things that it's going to, it's going to be very evident that it will become an arms race or a monetary arms race. And you'll get, you'll get, you're either in the race or you're left behind, right? And I think that it will take a bit of time, you know, trying to, did the digital one might be even successful, but it's not going to be successful compared to Bitcoin ultimately. And the rest of the world is gradually adopting Bitcoin. And so there will be a point where actually we might see China say, we're unburning it and actually come out of the Bitcoin closet and say, right, okay, we're now accepting Bitcoin. But it may be too late. So I think it would be great if you're, if you're listening, present is she, she's she, she, you're, she's unbanned Bitcoin. What's that? The season ping, she's outphing. Yeah. So I think you should unbanned Bitcoin if you're not, what you're obviously not watching me is because it's blocked, but because you blocked it. So you should, what you should unblock it, watch it and then unbanned Bitcoin. Thank you. And then welcome Bitcoin tourism so we can check out that awesome wall. I hear that it's great. All right. I'm going to agree with Adam. I think the ban will last forever. But I don't agree with Josh. I think no one will pay it any attention. People continue using Bitcoin. Bitcoin will thrive in China just like they say, give unto Caesar that which would caesars. They'll pay for official things with the official currency for everything else. There's Bitcoin moving on to issue two. Twitter tipping is back. Yes, it was years ago when we used to tip each other on change tip and everyone would spam each other and spam celebrities with tipping messages. Now tipping is back using the lightning network and strike to allow users to tip Twitter users directly. Adam McBride, what do you think about this amazing new Twitter innovation? Nobody's ever sent me a penny man. I tried to turn it on. Literally I got, I saw the thing pass through my news feed today. I'm like, oh cool. Let's turn it on. Let's see how it works. Not for me. I don't know if it's because I'm outside of the US or something. I actually did like log out, try a VPN in the US just to see, oh, maybe it's a US type of thing. I don't see it on my Twitter. I don't know. Do you guys see it on your Twitter? Well, did you try the iOS app? That's the only one I have. Yeah. All right. You should be in there. You should be able to connect it to strike. I don't see it. I'll update to the latest version of the I did. I did. I did. You don't think I want tips on Bitcoin on Twitter. I'm all about tips. Yeah, I didn't work for me. I didn't. But for the other problem, you have to mention sarcastically that you haven't gotten any tips. People will they'll tip you out of pity. And I can say I got about I got about 20 bucks in. I can't I can't imagine. They're like, does it work? And I was like, it works. It's how much so I know you've had it turned on for a while because were you like one of the beta testers or something? I remember you tweeting about it a while back, right? Maybe a month or so ago. But have you gotten anything yet? Has anybody sent you anything? We talk about all this time. And of course, we did change tip back in the day. One guy sent me 10 bucks. A bunch of people sent me a dollar, like a total a total of $21. Which is cool. I mean, I haven't done that much stuff lately where people would be like, let's tip that guy. But it was unfortunate. It's just that whole reservoir talks. I wasn't so lucky to have a job that was deemed tip worthy. You know, tip the guy, McDonald's, but he's bringing you food. He's working hard. Society says, no, tip these people over here. Don't tip these people over here. Fucking bullshit. Yeah, I don't know, man. For me, it's like tipping. I mean, I know it's a very like, it's a very Bitcoin crypto type of thing. A lot of early Bitcoiners and stuff talk about tipping and have actually sent me stuff. Hey, I want to send you a tip. So it's all kind of for me as a kind of crypto newbie. It's kind of a little bit strange, maybe. But certainly nice and appreciated when somebody does send you one, right? I mean, that's, I've had a lot of meetings. Well, for the NFTs, I was going to say does it work? Because I mean, I know on open C, you can transfer an NFT, like a Kerio card or whatever from one person to another. Do you put your address out there? You're like, hey, I'm a dot in moon cats or whatever you got. I mean, I don't put it out there, but obviously everybody knows where it is, right? Because people track my wallets and stuff. So yeah, people know my public wallet address and will send me stuff. And we talked earlier with Josh about how he got some, some of these scam NFTs and you have to be really careful. Anybody who has it in the NFT, if you have a wallet on open C, people will send you these kind of scam NFTs. If you don't know where that NFT came from, just, there's a three buttons on the top left 10 corner of each NFT, click that button and click hide. Because if you actually interact with that in any way, they're built on these contracts, they will somehow drain your wallet. I can't even imagine that's possible. But I mean, I know a bunch of people, it's happened to you. So you have to be really careful in an open C. It was also an interesting effect recently when Snoop Dogg was discovered to be this major NFT influencer. And of course, everyone started sending him all of their favorite NFTs or advertisements for their NFTs. It's a bit like Bitcoin tipping, but a little bit more like, I hope Snoop Dogg mentions my project tipping. Yeah. I mean, that happens to me all the time. People will send me whatever the monkey of the day NFT drop is, hoping that I'll be like, oh my god, I got a monkey NFT, right? But now with this scam that's gone over the last week, like, I can't imagine anybody's do it going to do it anymore because now it's just immediately to the trash or to the hide because everybody's terrified that their wallet's going to get drained. We just can't have nice things. Dan, Eve, Twitter, tipping, any tips coming in for your wraps yet? No, I checked some of my phone actually and there's, I don't think, I've got iOS and I'm on the beta version of iOS 15, although I think it was out recently anyway with the new iPhone, but I don't have the tipping feature. But I think it's a cool idea, right? There was that video today of Jack Moulas doing the tipping to someone in El Salvador. And it's instant, it's free because, you know, Substitutia is pretty free and it's just an incredible that it's going to really shake out the world of remittances. And that was kind of one of the reasons when I worked in the Treasury Department, I found out about Bitcoin in 2013 and it really made me think, when I learnt about how many hops money has to, you know, in between sending money from here to South Africa, how many hops it takes and how many people take a car and everything. It's just insane. And especially with people that use, you know, Western Union and other services like that, they're getting rinsed at the moment, absolutely rinsed. And Bitcoin is there to save that, especially with Lightning where it makes it instantaneous. And over a social media platform, it's like, you know, it's combining Twitter and Bitcoin is pinnabar and jelly, right? It's like the, it's going to, it's going to completely change the way people send money to each other. And the banks can't keep up with it. And that's why it's such a threat to every bank and central bank because it is the hardest money that you can have. And now that you can send it virtually for free with Lightning Network, tipping it over a social platform, that means that, you know, I can imagine Twitter basically takes the place of a lot of banks, you know, and it's going to take a huge cut of Western Union, I think, in future. So yeah, I think it's pretty incredible. I think they're also mentioning about, you know, verifying NFTs or some sort of verification service over Twitter to, I don't know, imagine that Twitter, provenance over Twitter or something. But I think it's, it's the interesting thing about the NFTs being dropped is that there's the same thing happening with tokens, right? It's not happening as much with Ethereum on the Ethereum chain because the fees are so high. But, you know, I've got a few, you know, Binance, buy BSC, Wallets and polygon and stuff from Fiddling around. And they just get absolutely hammered with all these crap tokens that come out of nowhere just so that you can see their project. It's kind of like that, you know, when I was at Shivercoin, to donate the load of their token to, to Vitalic, except you actually dumped it all. So it's good for advertising in a certain way that people might as well, you know, take their chances. But I think as Adam said that, you know, it becomes natural just to hide it, right? Once you see 10,000 Ethereum giveaways, you're like, oh, screw this. Like, I'm not going to give my private keys out for the 11th time. I've learned my lesson. By the way, I need to clarify, Monkey Brain McBride here had an updated his iOS. So there you go, Thomas. That's the reason I don't have it. I'm assuming I did update my Twitter and all that junk, but my, my OS is a little laggy. So that's probably why. So after the show, everybody can tip me. It's going to be fantastic. That was I was saying we got updated. Get it set later so you can get some tips after the show. And to clarify what Dan was saying about the Twitter NFT verification, it sounds to me, like it's a digital flex verification. Everyone's putting these NFTs as their Twitter image profile. And if you have a very expensive NFT as your profile and someone else is using it, you don't want them to be able to use it. So Twitter, at least I've heard, is proposing a system where they check like your open and see account or your Ethereum address or something and verify that you have the punk or the A board. Bro, that's going to be you. I'm telling you, in the NFT space, that's a big deal. Like did my ape is like a verified and they're going to have a little like ape verified check or whatever they're going to check on the NFT, like a little NFT check would be massive. Like for people in the NFT space, people would love that. It feels, it feels like Twitter's pandering, but it also feels kind of futuristic. Like they're getting into what the kids are into. Maybe the kids are right. You know, this whole collectible JPEG thing, which everyone always harps on. They're always like, oh, that JPEG, I've all copy based it. But yes, Dan mentioned that it is a, everyone loves Twitter tips. They go together like peanut butter and jelly, peanut butter and jelly littered with the salty tears of people who worked at change tip. Yes, change tip had this idea. Change tip executed this idea in some fashion. And as a person who knew people that worked at change tip, insider information from years ago, change tip definitely had meetings at Twitter. Change tip definitely had the opportunity to tell Jack, perhaps or someone near Jack, their idea about Twitter tips. Everyone could see it. It was very visual. Half of every message that I would get would be a you have been tipped a penny on change tip. You have been tipped a penny. The same thing for my comment section on YouTube. You have been tipped a penny, another penny, penny, penny, which was great. And as DJ Booth mentioned, the dollar he sent is worth $139 now. But change tip had the idea first, but they ran it on an internal database. They weren't really using the blockchain. They weren't really using transactions. Now strike might be doing the same thing, but they're kind of connected directly to Twitter. So there's not as much spam. I don't seem to be getting the small messages for a dollar. If you send me $10, it does seem to send a message on Twitter, something like that's probably a good idea to have a threshold. Right? If they send you 100 bucks, I want a message about it. But if it's a penny, no thanks. Josh, you know, the one who the one who's really done it right started to catch up. The one who's really done it right is YouTube. YouTube and their tip feature, you know, on live streams. That's really it. I mean, in my opinion, like the most effective use of tips, like, and that actually really, really works for people who are doing live shows and stuff, you can make a living off that. They're the ones who've kind of done it right. Obviously, it's not decentralized at all. It's not blockchain at all, but just from a use standpoint, I find that YouTube is the best. The super chats very good. I like the idea of the subscription, but I haven't tasted it yet because I don't know that they let people with smaller accounts have subscriptions. So I'm sure it would be nice, but it's not quite there for us. But yeah, if it is also about the blockchain and lightning and small payments, Josh, the goal, you were there for change tip. What do you think about Twitter finally getting tipping after all these years? Yeah, I mean, we mentioned that a couple of shows ago that back in the day, I used to get annoyed that people would send you like a Satoshi and go, yeah, well done. He's a Satoshi and you're like, what's with the Satoshi, man? Someone would put a lot of work into a video and they'd get tipped to Satoshi and everyone goes, wow, what just happened? Because no one's seen this stuff before. And man, it was really good for getting the word out about Bitcoin because people would go, wow, what is that? And her? What just happened? But actually, in terms of value to a person, I kind of always equated it to tipping a busker on the street by throwing one cent into the bush next to him and saying, great work. And sort of expecting him to say thanks. You know, like the better time it takes you to say thank you. It's like you just cost me money by even saying that. Yeah, it's like that. You're an asshole. Exactly. I'm not going to be like there should be like minimum, like YouTube does it right, right? The person can like set like a $5 minimum, a $10 minimum, right? Anything below that? Go fuck yourself. Like don't waste my time with your half a fucking penny. Yeah, but my centoshi is going to be worth millions one day. You'll see. Yeah, look, I mean, you know, the lightning network does allow you to do some Satoshi. So, you know, maybe we see that back. But I have seen screen grabs. I haven't been able to get it on Twitter. Maybe it is because I haven't updated my phone. But I'm be interested to see the screen grabs that I've seen have shown like $1 $5 $10 like pre-cent of mounts. So that's kind of cool. But really what I love about this and I'd like to see it in email clients somehow where people attach some Bitcoin to actually get an email through to me. This is a throwback to Adam Bax, hash cash. But it would definitely stop a lot of crap emails coming through. You know, a sales person will really have to want to contact me to spend $5 or even a dollar. So I would really love to see that. I don't know why someone hasn't done it yet. They should please do it. I'll use your email client. If it automatically sends them back an email saying, hey, for Josh to read your email, please send it by the way, it automatically gets forwarded to his charity that he's chosen or whatever. You know, like there's all sorts of really cool things you can do. So some person out there should do that. Like Josh said, there's a great history of people making those email spam projects. Of course, Adam back with proof of work, one of the first then Jesse Powell at Kraken had one for Gmail where he had to send him Bitcoin and then you out there could make one with the Lightning Network. You could join Jesse and Adam moving on to the exit question. Dan Eve, Twitter tipping, the biggest thing in the world or completely forgettable. We don't even talk about it in a few weeks. No, I think it's going to catch on for remissances. It's just like a cheap way of doing it. But the thing is, obviously, you've got to have the person who's sending and receiving you've got to want to be into Bitcoin. I think it'll be more use for that and than it would be for just general tipping because the thing is where the other cryptocurrencies have tried it where you just got you received it, you know, like steam it or whatever and then you're able to tip that. But with Bitcoin, you've got to buy it. You've got to buy the Bitcoin and then you've got to part with it and everyone who's had Bitcoin knows that partying with Bitcoin is really, really hard. So it's either going to be for shilling your own project or something like that spamming other people or it's going to be used for actually paying mates for example. You know, you went out for a few drinks and I'll just tip you over Bitcoin over Twitter. But yeah, I don't see the tipping function being that huge, at least not until Bitcoin's completely ubiquitous. I see it more for being like people paying each other maybe internationally trying to circumvent the banks, etc. and Western Union. I still get angry Twitter messages from that guy who tip 20 bucks five years ago and now it would be worth thousands. And he's like, why didn't you tell me not to tip you? Adam, like, ride Twitter tipping the biggest thing in the world or completely forgettable. Honestly, the only thing I like is Dan's idea about remittances, right? That actually makes sense. The idea that somebody's going to send me a dollar and wants me to interact with them for a dollar, I am completely out, completely. If there's a way to set like minimums and stuff, okay, you know, it could work. But the reality is people aren't going to, I just don't think people are going to really do that. But for remittances, that could be revolutionary. That could be great. It's painful, but Adam's really hit on it here. People don't want to donate. They don't want to just give out money for nothing. They want something in return. It makes a big difference. And like you're saying, a dollar, all of your hard work, all of the interviews you've done, the people you've emailed, the little messages you send out, all the little configurations behind the scenes that you do that no one knows about. Here's a dollar. Thanks. Look at me. Look at me. Oh, thank you. Oh, and I got to go like, oh, thank you. Give me a one we ran a like a spanned neuter program down here. And we spent like, my wife spent like $50,000 one year spanned neutering like thousands of dogs. You just paid it, right? And like we would have like a dinner to like talk about it and people would donate money to us. And literally I had a, there was a couple gave us $20. And wanted to wanted to know where that $20 was, which is going to be spent. Did go fuck yourself. Like seriously, I don't even, what are you talking about? Get out of my face, dude. You know what I mean? Like, anybody got time for that? Anybody got time? Big spend. $20 over there. Yes, indeed. Josh Shakehalla Bitcoin tipping on Twitter, a huge deal or no deal? I think it's a huge deal. I think it's a bigger deal than China fighting like in the reverse negative space. Like I do really think that it won't be tipping, but it'll be payments. I think I think we're going to be able to pay back. And I really want to see, I think we're really coming to its own once there's like lightning, stable coins or something like that or something because that's where people start spending it. It's Bitcoin. It's very hard to get like what Dan said, very hard to get out of people's fists from my cool dead hands. I mean, we've run a Bitcoin only gold business. We've done very well. We've sold in half a billion dollars worth of gold over the time since 2015, and back and forth like people have traded. But we're a very special case. If you accept Bitcoin for your widget online, you hardly get any sales for it. Back in the day, you would have got some like, let's support from the small community. Let's support that person. He started to sell his socks for Bitcoin. They've got the Bitcoin logo on it. Yeah, I'm going to buy some. And then a few years later, it'll be worth a Tesla or something. Like, dammit, why don't I buy those socks that are now one of them's gone. So what I'm saying is that people really, there's certain use cases that they'll buy and spend. But usually it's because they think they can get more. So they'll buy gold with us because they hope that when Bitcoin drops, they'll buy the Bitcoin back. They'll sell their gold for Bitcoin. And so they'll have more. So there's a use case because they want more. When you're purely tipping, you're actually getting less. Unless you go buy back. And that would be a really cool feature. If Twitter could turn it on, as soon as you tip someone, it would buy it back for you. So you wouldn't lose the value. And you could spread the word around and give you some smiles. So I think that would be a really cool move if they could do that instant buyback. I call it the re-hottle. You know, trademark that. The feature that people say they always want is they say they always want to just turn it on and have it tip automatically. A penny at a time or a shaving at a time. But everyone's afraid to turn that on because it would tip so much money. Everyone believes that people want to tip and they keep building these projects that allow them to tip. But in the sad reality, I agree with the panel. I don't think people want to tip. They want to work that way. They want to get something. It's the strangest thing where you could give somebody 20 bucks. But you won't, right? But someone will sell you an NFT like a JPEG and you'll give them 100 bucks or a thousand bucks or even more for nothing. Someone will have a poster store, a t-shirt shop. You buy all these t-shirts for 20 bucks and you do your best. You're like, I'm going to support my guy like posters, t-shirts. And then across the street, somebody selling an NFT or rare Pepe or something for $4,000 for one. I could never buy that many posters or t-shirts. I would never donate $4,000 just to one part. That's an incredible, I mean, I had someone gave me a nice donation recently. But normally that wouldn't happen. Also, it's speculative if collectibles are worth what they're worth. But in general, that's one out of like eight years. So people don't donate. But don't donate. Great amount. You see the difference there. One is you're hoping to sell the rare Pepe for more sets than you paid for it. Whereas buying the poster or t-shirt, you know that's a lost cost. That's exactly what it is. It's the idea just hit on it, nail on the head, man. People want more. The reason they're buying that rare Pepe is they think they're going to be able to flip that rare Pepe for twice the amount or 10 times the amount in a week, right? They're not going to look at that phone. They're going to go, oh, I love that rare Pepe. Nobody gives a shit about rare Pepe. They just want more. More sets. Now I watched a poster documentary recently that had this new way that they're doing it for these Mondo posters. And what they do is the artist does a limited run of like a hundred or 50 or 200. They sign them, you know, pencil sign at the bottom. And they do new posters for movies that didn't have good posters. There's this whole thing about all the 90s posters. They're just heads floating on posters and there's not a big drawn like a hand drawn cartoon. So they do those for the posters and then they try to sell them online. So those do have some of the characteristics of the rare Pepe's of the NFTs that we're talking about. But yeah, I agree with the panel. People want to buy something to get a return. The posters, the t-shirts, never going to have a return. The prints, very limited return. But the NFTs, who knows? Let's see. Let's move on to issue three. Here we go. Issue three, Miami mayor thinks crypto will make it the most innovative city on the planet. He used to like Bitcoin, but now Francis Suarez, the mayor of Miami, is making his new coin. That's right. It's called Miami coin. And it's going to solve all of your problems. It's not going to be anything like Aurora coin, California coin, America coin, any of these coins in the past. Josh Jagala, Miami coin is here to solve your problems. You can pay for government services in Miami coin. The government of Miami can now print Miami coin. The mayor of Miami, such an esteemed and high position, is now the boss, the pope, if you will, of Miami coin. Josh, are you investing in Miami coin? Is this it? Ah, look, man. This is what, for me, this is what Satoshi, when he invented Bitcoin, it was about competition. It was about competing against the Fed or competing in general. And that's really what I am. I consider myself a competition maximalist. I think everyone should, I should be able to create Josh coin if some community is willing to take it. Hey, well, that's cool. But it comes down to education and understanding how many can they create? Is it a fraud? Is there one single trusted node like in the Fed? Is it, you know, it's just, it can become a chic coin very, very quickly if it has, if he has total control. And I also want to find out his cousins mining it on the server farm in the office next tour. So it doesn't seem really good computer guy, you can trust him. Dude, can we spin up some mine, some Miami coin nodes here? Can we, I'm definitely, I'm down for it. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah, runs on cocaine. So, I mean, it's, it's a really, really interesting thing. I really like the ideas. I would never use it because I think, you know, any government issued stuff is just nonsense go away. But, you know, this is nice try. And although, you know, the, the oil backed Venezuelan coin was also total nonsense. But yeah, Aurora coin, that was the classic from back in the day for, I was an Iceland or something. I can't quite remember. So it's a long ago. But that was the one that got air dropped and never really did anything because I think I couldn't really solve the problem of not knowing who it's getting air dropped to. Well, everyone who did get dropped Aurora coin sold it immediately. Yeah. The people of Iceland dumped Aurora coin as fast as they could get their hands on it. I forget what the Venezuelan was called like the Hugo or something like that, the Chavez. I don't know. I don't remember. Yeah, it was back to oil apparently, but it's just a scam, total scam. I mean, where have we heard this before? I mean, to think, is there any way I could just take the opposite bet on this because there's no way this works. No way. How do I know? Because I know the way governments are. I mean, you're just here at the speech. I mean, he's a nice guy. I'm sure he's got the best intentions. But it's the same talking points as the lottery. Oh, just think this is going to be great. Look at it. I mean, he's literally giving the speech. It makes $2,000 every hour coming into the government. Oh, what are we going to do with all this newfound money? It's going to be great. Bro, give me a break. I mean, dude, how many times are we going to be sold the same bag as shit and think that this time it's going to smell nice, dude. This is a bag of garbage, stinking garbage. And it's a nice guy doing it. I think he's got the right intentions. But dude, there's no way this works. Zero chance. And here, if he'd printed an NFT, he'd be all for it. If it was true, that is a money. No, it's not. One of the things that I find interesting about the story is how the Fed reacts to this. And if there's any sort of legal, why haven't the states issued their own currency independently? Historically, anyone who's ever issued their own currency, especially silver certificates. And I don't want to bring this on the mayor of Miami has been assassinated. Yeah. Yeah. That's a very interesting point. It's really interesting. And maybe they've done it kind of in this like softy kind of way. But he definitely called it a currency. Like I heard him speaking and he was calling it a currency. It's pretty interesting and a very interesting point you just made there. Like, what is the Fed going to do? Like I almost think it has to be successful them for them to do something and obviously going to be successful. He said you get that huge API, like the 4,000% a year or something. He said he didn't know how it worked just like an ICO. It will be successful. It's going to be probably about three months. We'll have tanks rolling into Miami. We're going to dispose. They're going to take all the statues. Oh, I know. I want to start mining this stuff. Like, can you guys teach me how to do this? Can I run it on my Mac? I have the opposite. I thought you wanted to short it. I thought you were in the bank. I want to do. I don't know what I want. I want to short my Amie coin. And they're like, you can short Miami coin. No one's ever shorted Miami coin. Yeah. They're like, build it for me. Yeah. It would be really fascinating to see. One of the things that I do feel will probably happen is there'll be some sort of like federal intervention in this, like, surely. And not only has assassinations happened, well, some other ones that some rumors are that Saddam Hussein was definitely talking about like gold settlement for oil in the Middle East rather than the US dollar. Gaddafi was also trying to set up a gold settlement layer instead of using the USD also off with that. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I haven't got full proof of that, but there is definitely rumors quite well research rumors as well. So you know, my day isn't complete until the mayor of Miami is mentioned with Saddam Hussein and Omar Gaddafi. Dan Eve, Miami coin. We're looking at a real home run here. Somebody stick up for the mayor. I think it's going to go the same way as like Aurora coin did. You know, it sounds like a good idea, but I think the idea of the federal government stepping in, I think, is a good point. You know, at the end of the day from a Bitcoin is perspective, you're going from, you know, government backed money to local government endorsed money. And those are both bad things ultimately. Bitcoin is the thing that you want. But as if it couldn't be more funnier, like the fact that I keep on reading this is on a platform called Citycoins and all I can think of is that South Park character like, oh, Hiroh, welcome to the Citycoins. Covering a city coin right here. Obviously, you know, I don't want anyone to lose money, but I'd probably recommend that you don't, you know, go into hard on Miami coin. But yeah, I think, I don't know, I think it's a good point that federal government might actually step in because it's going to tread on the toes of the CBDC and that's not going to go down well. But actually, it's quite interesting to see how long it lasts. And there are, you know, never underestimate the power of the newbie and that have never heard of Aurora coin, have never heard of any of these things and gone, whoa, Miami coin issued by the government, you know what I mean, it's going to be massive. Like, I can see it, you know, thousands of millions of people jumping in globally. So, yeah, I mean, it could pump that's for sure, but there's definitely not financial advice. I'm just saying it could pump for the wrong reasons because after bump on a stupid. That's what I'm saying. I think we mind that we mind this stuff at the beginning. We ride the pump and then we dump that shit. We get out fucking retire in Miami with all that money. Woo. I think it's going to pump like a leak on a boat. You're going to need that flex seal by the end of your mining operation. It'll be very underwater. Let's move on to the exit question. Josh, Shagalla, are you ready? If let's pretend for a minute that the idea of city coins worked, is there a city that you could think of that you would buy? Is there a city that you can think of that you would sell? Josh, Shagalla, name two cities. I'm a libeland. I would love to see a coin there and maybe the principality of hot river in Australia. Those two places, yeah. Adam McBride, a city you would buy, a city you would sell. Ah, buy. Ah, I'm always a buyer of Paris, right? Everybody loves Paris, big buyer of Paris, seller. Shit, Caracas, Venezuela. I mean, that's an easy one. Low hanging fruit. Dan Eve, what would you buy? What would you sell? I'd buy Vagus because it's got so many pretty lights and shiny things and I'd sell, I don't know, I'd sell Anten because it's a show. See shiny things. See this is a crypto-repto. Raptors are actually birds. Yeah. Dinosaurs and birds are attracted to shiny things. I'm buying Amsterdam. I would buy Amsterdam. I like their new donut recovery strategy trying to keep people in the donut, not too big, not too small, like a donut. I would probably sell San Francisco, even though I like it. There's just a big trend there. Everybody else is selling San Francisco. So I'll join in right up until I can buy it at the bottom, right? They are putting in homeless shelters there, which is very good. They're going to give the people homes and see if they can. I thought they already had them. You just go to the corner and there's just big tent cities. That's the thing. The tents are a disaster. They're putting in little houses for the people. They're going to try to transition them and improve their lives, which is a better solution even though it costs more. Moving on. Maybe looking at mental illness, removing the drugs, the massive amount of pharmaceutical drugs that is just like domestic. American saying. America is insane with the amount of pharmaceutical. I think farmers such a big strangleholder. Every American I know is onto like, I think about 15 weird drugs that they're like pharmaceutical drugs that are on. I've got ADHD and PTSD and this mat and so on. You should see the commercials. You should see the commercials. Are you hot? Are you cold? Are you tired? Are you tired? Are you tired? Do your legs bounce up and down? You may have restless leg syndrome. The side effects of this medication and the side effects are. The inside effects are. Restlessness. Yeah. Suicidal thoughts. Suicidal thoughts. Like giving up online. Like every single app possible side effects is like, why would you take this? Like this is horrible. And again, why would they let them advertise it? They're prescription drugs. You have to get the doctor to sign off. It's like, have you heard about heroin? Heroin is a fantastic drug. Get your doctor to prescribe heroin today. You'll feel great. Read a William S. Burrow's book. I've read several. But yeah, Josh, it's out of control over here. It's out of control. It's just insane. It's insane. Okay. And it's coming soon to a year up near you because everything happens in America first. So they'll get those ads to you soon, Josh. Moving on to issue four. Christie's is now accepting ether in exchange for Ethereum's earliest NFTs, the New York observer newspaper. Recently, Christie's announced that it's October post-war to present auction that includes works by Andy Warhol, Wayne T. Bald, and more will include the sale of 31 NFTs that are considered to be some of the oldest on the Ethereum blockchain, Kerio cards. Christie's is selling Kerio cards made in May of 2017 by Thomas Hunt, Travis Erig, and Ret Creighton. Let's go to Adam McBride first. Kerio cards. Finally, at auction, the Christie's auction historically had the Beeple auction, 69 million, the crypto punks. I don't know, 30 million, 100 million, lots of millions, right? The Kerio cards estimated range, 900 to 1.2 million on the low. Adam McBride, are you excited? What's going to happen at the Kerio cards auction? Bro, I'm excited for you, dude. Congratulations, man. Really what this is, is this is a congratulations for you. What you guys and your team did back in 2017 was visionary. At the time, it didn't work, right? You were too early, but you have been redeemed. Congratulations, my friend. It's really feathering your cap for what you did in 2017. It's really amazing. Christie's for me, this is like a stepping stone for NFTs. NFTs a year ago, nobody on earth knew what an NFT was. It's slowly gained in the crypto community, and now it's gaining wider acceptance worldwide. Christie's is kind of like another box that's getting checked off for me in the NFTs space. Kerio's punks, these are all important steps. But I tell everybody, look, we're still so early in this NFTs journey. NFTs in C says there are 200,000 wallets on Open C. If you're like me, you probably have 10 or more wallets. That means there's probably about 30 to 50,000 people who actually own an NFT in this world right now. We're all super, super early. And I couldn't be more excited. And yeah, the Christie's auction is going to be great. Can't wait for the live show. Everybody joined the Kerio Discord. It's going to be amazing to do that live show and be a part of it. For NFTs and crypto in general, this is a big deal. Well, it was pretty strange when we told what we wanted to build and we talked about it. There wasn't any standard for rent to go to. There wasn't any book where you're like, oh, I'll just build an NFT like 1.0 or 2.0. It was like, you build it somehow. You stitch it together. You put the image in there. You know, we'll make the cards. We'll have rarities and this kind of thing. And all the ideas that we talked about on our early YouTube shows and other things are now commonplace. Everyone knows about the rarity. Everyone knows if there's one of one or if there's a serial number or how many cards there are. And it's very strange to see those ideas that we tried to push on people and people laughed and they're like, yeah, I could right click and save that. And all the things that everyone, you know, is a joke now. Yeah, we had all of that early on. And that was like by VC people. They're like, I don't understand this. I have real baseball cards. This doesn't interest me. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about Kerio cards and the Christie's auction? Yeah, I second what Adam said. I'm really congratulations and it's well deserved. I mean, you know, it didn't really, the Kerio cards were sort of even hidden through the first NFT hype cycles. And it was like, I think it was Adam, right? You sort of went through with your NFT mining. So excavating, trying to find the rare stuff right in the beginning, looking through dusting off with your brush in the blockchain, you know, and then coming across this and sort of sharing it out into your community and sort of reinvigorating life into this thing. And you know, it really is visionary. I got to admit, like so many people were back in the day when you were doing your stuff as well, Thomas and people were talking about the concepts of art on the blockchain. You know, I still don't fully get it. Like I get it. Like I get it. I definitely, but I think there's a massive hype here that's like out of control. But where I do see the future is, if you're an actual artist who's getting work out there, there's an absolute value to saying that you own the resellable riots to an original Thomas Hunt artwork. And this is an original ex artist. So I definitely see that and really blown away. For me, Christie's is kind of like, you know, Tesla accepting Bitcoin. It's that for NFTs. It's sort of a big step towards institutional money laundering. No, I'm just kidding. It's a step towards institutional investment into this space. And so, yeah, interesting. It is a really big deal. I mean, everything I know about the auction house, I know from movies and popular culture. A lot of the artists who talked about how in art school, maybe they dreamed about posthumously being included in Christie's. And now they're getting to see it, you know, to have this kind of very serious auction book written where it's like nuts, finip, berries, finip. You know, it's just these the weirdest thing to see. These little titles that we worked on and these cards that we worked on together just become this huge thing. Dan, are you going to Josh? No, I, you know, seeing Christie's up there, it's a kind of a, it's a strange level upgrade from absolute obscurity. But I think it's also one of these things like where, you know, when skateboard is all rejoice because now skateboarding is in the Olympics. It's kind of like this old school thing have, have realized that they need to keep up with the, with the new kids because the new kids are the next generation. There's no point staying stuffy and old and just selling what we've always sold, but actually moving forward and selling what all the kids are hyped about at the moment. Well, and it's a unique time for it too with the pandemic. They said that there's a couple of people at Christie's, probably the younger people who've kind of spearheaded this NFT thing. And one of the things they said is that at the time of the pandemic, it just made so much sense. Everyone was at home anyway. Everyone was collecting, you know, what was in their house. They're very limited. And the fact that you could get this artwork, this NFT from artists around the world. And especially the first people work, people don't really talk about, but it was this, he did 365 artworks to make that artwork. It's a pretty special artwork to make the first big Christie's NFT sale on. They had to work for a whole year on that. And then to open it up to so many other artists, it's really an amazing thing. So what's selling on Christie's is that is it the whole set? Is it one set of it or is it single cards? It's a whole set of, of curious, which is one through 30. And then it's the misprint card. So that's 17 B. So it's 31 cards, basically any, any collector who wants a full set considers that misprint part of the full set. So it's 31 cards. And it's being so set. It's being sold by a private collector. And that as I've talked about many times, everyone's all like, the artists get a cut of the NFTs. And I'm always in there in the background like, no, they don't really. And everyone's like, it's traded off. There you go. They can hand it over on a treasurer. They can transfer it from OpenC accounts, OpenC account. They can send it to an address. I'm not sure how they're going to transfer the cards to the winner. But yeah, private collector, private auction, nothing for the artists. The interesting thing is really, as far as I know, this is really only the third full set that's traded hands. The first set I was involved with, I helped negotiate. And it was about 100 ETH for the first full set trade. That was the first full set of curious to ever trade. There's been one other which I can't give details on. But it was basically an NFT trade for an NFT trade, where a full set traded for another NFT, which will go unnamed. So basically only as far as my understanding goes, only two full sets have ever traded hands. So this will be the third and obviously the biggest and widest media hype around it. So it's going to be great to see. And the full set itself is really interesting because cards 26, there's 111 and then card number 29, there was a fair amount at 300 or something. But so many of them are locked up in this time lock contract that the markets on those are so thin that to actually get a full set isn't accomplishment. But at the same time, I want to say that like when we designed these and such, we talked about collectors mechanics. We talked about I wanted to do packs. We talked about all these ideas about rarities and magic and baseball and all the things we had. Miss prints, which again, we didn't do on purpose, but we would have loved to have like sure you didn't do it on purpose. If we could have purposely misprinted it like we would have done it because it fits into the whole card mentality thing. So it is very neat to see people collecting a full set and buying a full set. But again, this isn't like Voltron. The full set doesn't give you the power to get the lines together for magic suit. But maybe it does. I don't know. I've seen those people in the chat in the discord chat for Kiro cards. They have this weird system. You can verify that you own cards or something. And some people again, just like we're talking about early with the Twitter NFT profile picture verification flex. Some people have flexed their Kiro cards and they can talk about being set owners because they're verified. So somebody else at Christie's will be able to join the chat with that little mark next to their name pretty soon. So that's interesting stuff. Dan Eve, your thoughts on Kiro cards at Christie's? Dan, incredible man. Like what an achievement. It's something that's, you know, it was not 2017 right. So it's like four years ago. And as Adam said, it was way, it was way too advanced for the time. And I knew about sort of, you know, Pepe on, on, on counterparty. But I didn't know about Kiro cards until, you know, until the after the first hype, the first wave hype. And so I think it's incredible that it's, it's that point where again, this fantasy land of crazy crypto stuff is being bridged into reality and not just into like a normal auction house. It's Christie's. And you know, one auction house and that's Christie's. So that must be a big thing, right? Not just because I see anything I know, but you know, it's the, it's the biggest one. It's the, it's kind of looking at the pinnacle of auction houses. So I think it's absolutely, absolutely incredible. And, and the fact that, you know, that you've got the misprints as well, like they've been included, I think that's really a really cool thing. But yeah, I think it took time and it paid off and what an incredible achievement. I'm absolutely stoked. Yeah. Yeah. It's like when Vitalik, uh, Booter and Met Vladimir Putin. But yes, it's a, it is, it is great. It's a great accomplishment at the old world, the new world. Like Adam and I talked about on his show a long time ago. Uh, you know, I had a failed startup. Like we worked hard on it. We tried to MVP and do all the things I read about. Uh, but we had a failed startup and usually nobody gets anything for their failed startup. Like it just kind of goes away and usually you get a bunch of debt. You get a bunch of problems and your partners don't like you. The people that raised money for you don't like you. The investors that used to be your friends and family in that legendary friends and family around. Everyone wants to be Facebook. Uh, but sometimes there's nothing. Uh, so to see a dead startup come back to life. There's been many other examples that Adam's covered, like the Pixel Map guy and all these other people who, uh, had a cool project that like we say, it was just way. Ahead of his time and now people have gone back and they're like, yeah, a million dollar home page, but with Ethereum and you can buy the panels. They love that. Uh, crazy, I don't know, fighting little characters, crypto warriors or something like that. They love that. They love the a theory map guy. He's got a big map by part of the map. I don't know what you do with it. It's a map. They love it now. I don't know. There's a mania. Uh, you got to be careful with the mania. Everyone loves the mania because you get caught up in it and you're like, I bought this board eight for point three and I sold it for 300 Ethereum and you know, this is sweet. But yeah, let's all remember to have a little bit less mania cash out 10% here there. Cash out a little things because yes, I think NFTs are here to stay, but are they worth 100 Ethereum next year? Are they worth 10 Ethereum? Are they worth one Ethereum? Nothing worth something. But how much? And I think we're going to find how much at the Christie's auction forced prediction, Adam McBride putting them on the spot here. How much will the auction sell for estimates? Again, the range 900,000 to 1.2 million. Obviously people 69 million. I think crypto punks 30 40 million. What's it going to be? Adam McBride, we're entering into a recession. There's possible inflation. China real estate just crashed the stock market Bitcoin and Ethereum are down because China banned them. Obviously, this is the perfect time to bring Kirio cards to auction. We've waited for this moment. We let crypto punks have all that massive success. And now do you think we're even going to reach the auction minimum? I think it's going to be, I don't know, my gut says like 780, 780. Like whatever that is, I just punched it into Google 2.3 million. I just. Ooh, 2.3 million. Yeah, just big, big money. I don't know. That's the gut. That's my gut feeling. Doesn't necessarily make sense from a logical perspective because the reality was, you know, when I sold that first set for 100th, like I had people nickel and diamond me. We had another set that was almost closed on, but the buyer was nickel and diamond me at like 130 and he wanted it for 125 and he wasn't going to pay more than one, you know. And so it's like, wow, you look at that and you say, well, geez. My gut just says it's going to be a big one. It's going to be a lot of factors here. When we think Christie's, we think old fashioned traditional auction house. I mentioned the T-bots, the war halls. I love them, but those are works from the 60s and the 70s. These are people bidding with paddles. I don't even know if they can come to the room. You know, if they can bring the pearls, it might be a closed room because of the COVID. There's also a new element that could be good, could be bad. You have to have your Ethereum in a proven control account or something. I don't know coinbase and you probably have to send them a printout showing you have the money. But there's going to be some kind of an online bidding with Ethereum. So bonus question, Adam, will it be the person in the room with the paddle and the millions of dollars? Or is it going to be that strange person out there on the internet with the Ethereum? Maybe got it from crypto punks, got it from one of these other projects and it's just rolling it over. What's the crystal set? I think it's a paddle, dude. I think it's some dude with like, oh, I need to get into this space. Let me get in. I think that's what happens. Because the reality is the people who I deal with, the whales and stuff know that they can have picked one up much cheaper than this. So my feeling is it's not going to be an eth by. It's going to be somebody buying in the room, some family who wants to enter the space. What they deem to be a safe way to enter the space. When they realize that Gary Vee is in the space and the dude who is the president of the 76ers, Darryl Morio is a full set, serious collector's own, the full set. This is like a cheap entry point. And when you think about it when you compare it to the price of punks or anything like that, this is like a mid-level punk. It's a pretty safe play. I just pictured all these rich art hordes that I've been to, people that have all the art on the wall and the guy walks through the room like the butler with the white gloves. And he's got like a treasurer or a ledger and he's like with the curio cards and he puts them in the vault or on the shelf. They build like Will Shry and they're like they have to work out a new way to display their digital art. You watch they'll pay $3 million for it. They'll display it on a $300 digital picture frame. Josh Shagalla, how much do you think it'll go for? Do you think it'll be a person in the room or one of these strange new Ethereum bidders? At home? Yeah, it'll definitely be, I think it'll be in the seven digits somewhere. It's interesting with the paddle stuff. I was at the Crypto Castle here in Germany. It's amazing place. Crypto Castle, check it out if you're traveling. They do events fairly often there. There was an auction between a painting, physical painting, massive, huge painting. I'm six foot eight or something and this painting was bigger than me. It was huge. It was a huge big client. It's quite good, right? Anyway, and then there was this beautiful NFT that was made by this gentleman. It really looked gorgeous but it had a projector and a projector on the wall. They started the bidding first of all with this painting. It was like 1,000 and someone, 1,500 and it got all the way up to like 4,000. That's when I went like, you know, to too much to drink. And then it stopped and I was like, ah, how am I going to get this home? Going once and I was like, come on, come on, come on. It was someone else going twice, three times, boom. Anyway, I got this thing and we're leasing it to the castle that's going to stay there and that's beautiful. But what's interesting here is that the NFT hardly went for, I think it was a thousand or something like that, right? People were more excited about the physical thing in that moment, in the physical space. And people were a lot more sort of typefisted with their money in the physical space. But when you go into an auction that's online and it's with crypto, it seems so fluid. You're like, ah, one Ethereum, boom, two Ethereum, three Ethereum, ah, five. It's like, it's a total different headspace when you're in cyberspace, clicking a mouse and these weird digits are just flowing back and forth. And you're like, well, I don't know, it's five. You don't really equate that that's like 10,000 bucks. If you had to say 10,000, you'd be like, man, you crazy. You just bought a JPEG for 10,000 bucks. But yeah, so I found that a very, very interesting dynamic, not just between the physical and the digital, but between the physical space bidding in dollars or in euros and bidding, you know, and the mentality of bidding on an NFT that needed a projector, the project has to be on, you know, or as a painting, you buy it, you hang it, it's there all the time. So that was kind of interesting for me. But yeah, the ways to display this artwork, I think it's fascinating. I think E-ink would be really cool to get that done because it takes hardly any electricity. If you can have some sort of E-ink that works during the night and then you'd light it with normal lights from the front, that would be really cool with these NFTs. But yeah, I don't know, maybe Adam's right, maybe the paddlers will want to, you know, their old family offices, and they'll want to get into the space. But I think there's some fat, fingered whales online that might just want to troll the paddlers and just make sure that's right. Now that is true, like totally true, man. Yeah, totally. It's interesting what Josh says about the auction mindset here, because I was in an auction recently, and it's interesting the online auction versus the in-person auction. The online auction, I'm making all these kind of assumptions about the other person I'm bidding of it. At first, I was like, I'm kind of interested in this. But then I noticed like how fast they were bidding. And I was like, ooh, they're really interested in this. They like want. And so now I'm all just bidding. See what happens. Like Josh saying, just mess around. And then I'm like, I wonder if they'll do this. And they weren't doing it. And the time's just ticking away. And you're like, oh crap, I won this thing. But that's how the auction is. You get all bamboozled in your brain. So I do think the people in the room, the people online, the guy, yelling it and chanting it, doing the banging and everything. It's just a great microcosm of human emotion and of capitalism, of all these things coming together of the sale. One person wants to sell, another person wants to buy. There's something like back and forth, but the auction solves everything. So. Yeah, auctions are a weird thing. Some say the reason for Australia's property boom was because it was one of the few countries in the world that really does auctions all the time. It's very normal to do property auctions. And yeah, the mindset and getting trapped in a bidding war because you're just at that moment really passionate. And you want it even more because someone else wants it. And it's very different to just, hey, so how much do you want for that? Oh, that much. Let me think about it. Yeah, okay, I'll buy it. It's very different. Also, the fun like you said, of bidding for spite. And there's that interesting idea where with a giant artwork, you have to strap it to your car. You can't even get it home. The person at home bidding with spite for the NFTs, at least they're very portable. At least they're not going to fill up their house if they screw up and they win them. Whereas with eBay, you screw up and you win like a hundred gross of toilet paper. And it's like, oh my god, this house is ruined. Yeah. Let's go to Dan. I talk with an artist the other day, kind of a famous digital artist. And he said it's so interesting because he was doing stuff on Bitcoin in 2015, putting out 2015, 2016, doing NFTs on Bitcoin. And he's like, so he would do the digital art, which people could then download. And he'd also offer the NFT. He called it a token back then as like a proof of ownership. He's like, nobody wanted it back then 2016, 2017, basically stopped doing it because almost nobody wanted them back then, right? And how, how times have changed now where that is at least in the circles I go in, that's more, even more important to them than the physical. But what just just touched on this idea of like the physical space in a physical space bidding on a physical thing and the way that it raises emotions and competitiveness and market conditions is it's fascinating. And I can't it's going to be so exciting to see how this goes off. And I think a lot of the crypto punks they get so turned on by this one of one idea. When I see the original of something, I have that same idea, the one of one of Van Gogh or whatever, obviously not onable, but maybe for a smaller or a newer artist, maybe onable. Hmm. One of the things I do find interesting about this entire move by Christie's is that they're kind of cannibalizing their business model a lot because a lot of what Christie's does is verify and and and and yeah check for authenticity of a work and and and case it properly and have the Christie stamp that this is an original. And whereas with NFTs all of that is out the door. It's just cryptographically provenable, provenable that that is an original curio card. And so what they're going back to is basically just the the percentage that they make on the sale on that auction at that moment, which is yeah, it's just it's interesting. It gets to this interesting point of like what we as humans ask or believe in other humans kind of verifying something for us, brings about this like enhanced belief in something, whatever that something maybe could be Bitcoin, right? In the same way, like I wasn't fully into Bitcoin till some of my friends were also into Bitcoin in the same way NFTs like we're in the curio card discord, you know in in March and there's a hundred of us, right? We kind of believe it, but it takes another step when you know Gary Vee enters the discord and he believes it in it too, right? And then there's another step when Darrell from the 76ers joins in. And then there's a huge step when Christie's jumps in, right? And so you just get this kind of layering of belief and one human believing in something and then another human also believes in it. And then you just like layer on these kind of these things on top of it. And that's kind of what the NFTs base is going through right now. It's fascinating to watch. What's next off to Christie's, Thomas? That is part of the problem that the story that is kind of the pinnacle of the story for a lot of art is getting into a major auction house. I would agree with what Adam said Christie's is kind of projecting this coolness on to curio cards. They're establishing them. And that in the same way though like Josh said much like Western Union is quickly being replaced by Bitcoin Lightning Network and maybe even Twitter remittances. Christie's could and I don't want to be mean to Christie's here. I appreciate what they're doing for us. But they could be replaced by OpenC that OpenC check mark the blue check mark could be as good as getting into Christie's having the book written about you having the promotion all the things that they're offering which are excellent things. But I agree with Josh taking away that provenance provenance is a huge part of what Christie's does. This is officially a Wayne the ball. This is an Andy Warhol like we tracked it. We got the previous buyers. We got the art book. You know, this is not a van go. This is a fake. That kind of thing is handled perfectly by NFTs. We used to talk about it all the time on our old YouTube shows that we did for curio cards. But it seems like the provenance that we established in my apartment in San Francisco is now equal to the legendaries Christie's auction house in London. So that might be a problem for them in the future. But I think they've got a lot of time still and they're they're they're shifting right. The art world is not the banking world. They didn't sue open sea. They didn't say stop making NFTs. Christie's and Sotheby's the other major auction houses. At least so far they're shifting. Whether that's letting the doing the smart thing or they're doing the smart thing because as you guys pointed out like there's no need for them anymore right. In reality it's right there on the blockchain. We know what this is right but they've smartly understood what their position can still be. Yeah. Which is as that of a taste maker or an anointer and they can still do that. Because we are we are old enough to still remember you know five years ago when Christie's was necessary to tell us that that's a van go right. So they they're moving I mean it's really quite smart and I know people from there I've talked to them about this and we were in discussions and stuff like that and they're they're trying to move there's a section of those organizations which understand like you know they're being chased rapidly out of business. Yeah I wouldn't say out of business like the physical art isn't going anywhere. They will still need to check provenance of physical art and it's only going to grow. So I don't believe that but I do think they they are doing the right thing and I agree with you here where if they set up a competitor that's actually really good and has a beautiful interface and is is more headed towards the the high end of the market for NFTs they could really take that space now because it's not available so open seas very sort of cheap and nice. They got an Amazonie if that if if that is more like eBay garbage. You're right dude I never even really consider that because I think of like when I think high end I think like super rare or something like that but for me it doesn't feel like they have this the skills technical knowledge to pull that off like I just don't feel like they have it. I'm not sure how technical it is though a lot of it is what you're saying earlier Adam that it's this white glove service that I am the art collector I want to be walked to the art gallery I want to buy a real van go I don't want to buy a fake van go return it three months later whatever that's not what I'm doing here that guy next to me that's his job and if he's got to go work the computer machine to make it happen and put it in my address computer whatever put it in an vault that's not something the art collector wants to know Josh is right dude that's a good I mean that's that's like solid idea I you know I it's funny with all the talk of Christie's and talking with Christie's and all that that was never discussed so I don't even know if that's even on their radar to do something like that but them is like a super exclusive high-end auction online auction place for NFTs would be super smart but I don't think they're they should do it now before they have to sell their name like Polaroid and Atari being just buy them at some auction and make them do whatever we want Polaroid makes anything now yeah it is it is really the time to do it and that what what made me think of it is well what happens to the collector that does buy the set can they go back to Christie's in a year and say now I want to sell it and the Christie's will go oh yeah of course and then set up the auction again well it'd be much better for them to have an actual platform where that that that volume is moving quicker because that's how they're making money now it's not on the verification so they want that the velocity of the art work to move more so to build a proper auction house online like OpenC but better would be of great interest I could imagine even even this online format that we're gonna see and I don't know if it's gonna be a train record not but I'm picturing the guy with the auction gaville nobody has that OpenC has a billion dollars and not an idea in their head you want you want to get it higher me every weekend will bang out some OpenC sales and it'll be fun people would watch it and Christie's I mean this thing we're gonna do is gonna be fun I don't know about the rest of their auctions being fun but if they did it every week with these NFTs and hired a guy didn't online auction get the Noah guy to write about the NFTs and like you're saying Josh the flipping them is such a good idea because if you are heavy into a crypto punk and you made a mistake and you want to flip it Christie still gets there 2% or whatever they get their cut every time you flip even if you're flipping into stress so it would be great to be there the alternative is to just let these people be screwed if they want to flip and to have an option less NFTs are still cool next year I don't know Christie's need to pay you as an advisor to get that happening I could say well it's never too late but we're running out of time let's go to Dan Eve Dan we asked you about the auction right yes but I think well and not the not the breakaway question so I think I think actually I think it's gonna go into the like I think they're 2 million because I think that people are gonna have the beef all thing on their mind and they're gonna be thinking wow the last one was 60 odd million this could be this could be you know even bigger and I think they'll be bidding against each other and I reckon it will be traditional paddlers well I think you know there may be sharks online by someone who comes in who just like you know who may you know got in on the theory of my CEO and just has a thousand despair or something and just goes crazy but I think it's gonna be a paddle a paddle person like they're gonna be sat there with the paddle all excited and then they're probably haven't even heard of in their FT before like apart from hearing it you know that it was being sold at Christie's and it'll be something like that like somebody just just can't miss out it'll be like real world phomo bridge from Christie's very interesting predictions about the paddles and the price I think I hope it'll go high I hope it goes more than 3 million I hope we see some serious action Adam I think we're running out of time you've got another podcast to run to we're gonna see you soon for the Christie's auction we're gonna try to broadcast it here YouTube hasn't been broadcasting for so we're probably going to record it live here and upload it later but you can also join us on the Curio Discord we're gonna have an audio chat there everyone can join we might hang out and zoom to Adam anything you want to say in closing as we head towards the end of the show well I think again it's a big feather in your cap man so just congratulations from everybody in the space you've been in the space forever and I think this is just a huge win for you personally and for the work you did in 2016 and 17 so congrats brother yeah yeah thanks so much and check out the Adam McBride show on podcast Apple podcast Twitter all the places thanks so much Adam we're gonna move on to issue six I think it may be issue five it's a bonus issue I just thought it'd be fun to talk about Morgan Stanley's Dennis Lynch says that Bitcoin's ability to recover is like the character Kenny from South Park that dies every episode it's great to see the Morgan Stanley guy saying this we all know it's true we also know that it's an interesting and rather outdated episode or reference as we can see here from this amazing chart from Reddit over the first five seasons or so of South Park Kenny was killed in every episode then he started to survive much more the deaths are much infrequent they're now on the season 22 or greater so that's probably about a 17 year old reference there by the banker but Josh Egala what do you think Bitcoin is like Kenny he just keeps coming back it's the Kenny of money I still like the fainting good I don't know I just like the fainting good because if check out fainting goods on YouTube they're they're amazing they're an actual breed of goods that somehow just stiffen up and then fall down at that like little if they get shocked just from like a scare like a clap or something like that it's it's just amazing and then they scary jubber so they start to altify over because I don't know what is that and then they get back up and I really think Bitcoin is very similar to that strange Australian animals from Josh Egala Dan Eve is Bitcoin like Kenny he just keeps coming back from the dead yeah definitely I think that the it's a great comparison and and actually you've only just I've only just realized since you pointed it out they happened obviously a lot more in the early episodes and maybe that's like you know that's that's a bit of a synergy with Bitcoin and the fact that you used to hear like once a week someone would be saying Bitcoin's dead you know and you had the Bitcoin obituries but now it's just feats there's a lot fewer and far between there's as Bitcoin is evolved there's a lot less people that have the guts and to say oh I think Bitcoin's going to die because it becomes more and more of a stupid idea right so the beginning like again analogous with a south park it was like this fun idea and then maybe people kind of got bored of it and and and eventually like they thought well we won't kill Kenny off every episode and people now realizing well I'm just going to look like a complete idiot like instead of saying they're going as sort of you know going right Bitcoin's dead they're going to go think if it's twice themselves and think I'm going to be like that twat in the obituary and the Bitcoin obituries I'll be just one of those people along the timeline we know I mean one of those people along the chart that said Bitcoin's going to die now so yeah I think it's I think it's a great new comparison and Bitcoin will live forever I think Dan's got it here he's really on to something especially the analogy about killing off Kenny early on and not doing it so much later no one wants to say that Bitcoin's dead anymore that it's going to zero it's lost a lot of the fun but it is fun to say crypto and Bitcoin every five minutes on CNBC so don't play that drinking game we're running out of time Josh the golly do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead yeah actually if you could turn screenshot on for just a second because I have here the Bitcoin obituries chart which is which is super fascinating yeah we have you know in the early days Bitcoin obituries 400 it's died 430 times and and every time you've got to be a four I mean 2021 I love that it's died still 37 times this year according so it's kind of interesting that that it kind of jumped up this year I don't know it's a funny funny stuff anyway and how long was it 2020 it's interesting it just dropped I mean 14 is it yeah 14 yeah 41 to the but what was interesting in 2010 only once I don't believe that actually because they were saying it's dead all the time even even back then and 11 and 12 like one what um but anyway that was just that story of the week yes um my brother lives in the Canary Islands and my older brother and he this volcano exploded in Poma and it's this this tongue is heading towards his house and he's had to like cruise up there and and and fly back and and try to rescue his guitars and and the funny thing was I'll have to play the this little this is what when the the navigation was heading his way I'm uh shit one second here it is this is on google maps if your route may be disrupted when do you hear that folks when do you hear that uh but yeah poor guy like uh you know my my my thoughts with you all of laughing aside it's it's pretty crazy the some are saying that half the island might slip into the sea the volcano will split the island in half and luckily he's staying on the other side that the geologists think won't slide into the ocean uh but yeah the thinker that he lives in um is on the side that is right in the way of the lover and in the last day it's actually chucked a left and headed towards that bustity neighbor um now I'm just kidding uh it's heading to what you know around so uh he's really hopeful that uh he won't destroy the place but let's see that's the story of the week uh for me real hot lava lava flows that's a that's a hot story there Josh oh no all right that's very bad to the natural disaster and such uh yeah it's not even insured you can't insure against it because the natural disaster yeah they're not gonna offer insurance either it's awful uh Dan Eve prediction or story of the week go ahead I'm gonna go for a prediction and I think I think 2.1 million and the two the two and the one is referenced to 21 million of Bitcoin so 2.1 million are I can cure it I can't do any guys for that's my little prediction Dan Eve putting it on the line uh I don't know if I'm gonna predict it I'm sticking with my my high prediction hoping that like we've said there'll be a bidding war uh these people in the crowd maybe they haven't bought any NFTs yet they're like our art gallery is empty we need NFTs we've got 30 and one 31 great NFTs you can buy this week at Christie's uh so everybody check that out if you got a couple of million dollars like Josh was saying if you're an early ethereum person you want to bid on that you want to get yourself some curio cards easy way to get a complete set uh so everybody check that out it's gonna be early in the morning on October 1st uh we're gonna be hanging out in the curio cards discord we're gonna try to record it we're gonna try to live stream it we tried to live stream this and it didn't work again so I don't know what the problem is uh we had an original path we go zoom to restream it restream it broadcast everything it stopped broadcasting to youtube youtube's kind of our main thing that's our bread and butter so I said okay no problem I configured zoom to directly broadcast to youtube now that's not working either two weeks in a row it doesn't work so I guess I have to go test how to do this again after 277 shows of doing the same thing every week uh if possible until they killed google hangouts so those are the technical issues I'm gonna save this show now and upload it uh maybe you guys tell me what time you want me to play those I've been playing at 9am on uh Saturday or Sunday whenever it gets uploaded so those are our technical issues that's what's we do the same thing here every week so I don't know what other people have changed uh to make this not work but it doesn't work so but thanks so much to everybody for joining us and get sure to give us a thumbs up even though you're watching on the replay I can still see you at home I can see it still see whether or not you push the thumbs up button so it's important that you do uh thanks so much for watching until next time bye bye bye