#256 — The Bitcoin Group #256 - Mixer Down - Price Up - Experts Baffled - Meme Gold Rush

The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Travis Uric from CurioCards. All right. Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. How do you know peeps? Josh Shigalla from Valtoro. Our common piece. Then arc from BTC IoT. Hello. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Fed's arrest founder of Bitcoin Mixer, they say Laundre $335 million over 10 years. Bitcoin foglet clients obscure the origins of their transactions according to the Department of Justice. They arrested a Russian, Swedish national who allegedly operated the long-running cryptocurrency, laundering, or mixing website. The DOJ has certainly ended all money laundering and Bitcoin mixing and incredibly successful operation for the DOJ. Is that correct, Travis? Have they ended all cryptocurrency mixing? I wouldn't go as far to say all. Actually, it struck me as interesting. It said it was $335 million over 10 years. And that's definitely a lot of money. But Bitcoin traded $55 billion in volume, the last 24 hours alone. It's such a small part of the Bitcoin ecosystem. I know, back in the day, Silk Rogue was definitely a major use case. And that was nothing wrong with that as a use case. But it's such a small part of the ecosystem now. Dan Eve. I think it's, what's the impact? I'm interested in what the impact is going to be on other kind of coin-join mixing operations. Because it sounds like this was specifically sold as had links to Silk Road. And it was kind of sold along the lines of the service for various purposes, specifically rather than just protecting your privacy. But it would be interesting to see how that affects things. I think Travis made a really good point about the fact that the article even said $370 million, but it wasn't adjusted for the price over the appreciation over the years. And so that's just still such a minuscule amount compared to, you think of 11 years of Bitcoin trading, how much actual volume there has been, and how much of a kind of absolute mining drop in the ocean that the money that went through that amounted to. What's interesting is that I shouldn't laugh. But sadly, it sounds like the way you got caught was from right at the start setting up. So the server cost, which you got from MT Gox and then shifted BTC for a few addresses, you can literally reserve and then eventually you can reserve into the domain and server. And so the the the the fair to what the IRS scraped is details from MT Gox and Google accounts and it even had like a guide on there like saying here's how to do really shady stuff with Bitcoin and make sure that you're you know, discrete. But it goes back to the old school kind of myth that Bitcoin is completely anonymous and untraceable. You know, it's kind of it was that sounds amazing. You know, we've anyone who's in Bitcoin knows that it's pseudonymous. You know, you know, you're only there's any privacy to a certain extent. So, you know, that's why these coin joint services are actually quite useful. And that was, you know, Bitcoin companies can be who contain your hold data, they can go, you know, they can pop up and disappear and that data can disappear. The data on the blockchain is it's there infinitely, you know, it will be there for until the end of time. And so yeah, I think what's also quite I think, of course, quite cool. I'm going to I've been pronouncing saying it is I can measure I can measure the almost at all. This is the guy's name. So that was his pseudonym which means happy new year, but only after the new year apparently. So yeah, I mean, like coin joins, I'm all for coin joins. I hopefully this won't have, you know, the pink panthers like Shane Alice's and, you know, hooking up with the IRS to take down all sorts of operations that help you be private with your funds as you know, as you would like to be. If not, the various purposes. If only there was a Bitcoin mixer to protect the guy who made the Bitcoin mixer. O'Cama Gamesphere, Josh Shagalla. Yeah, I mean, what's what's interesting about the whole coin join and mixing and fungibility topic is that it's not about the nefarious people trying to hide their cash. It's about the normal person that's got some Bitcoin that all of a sudden needs to check if that's been in a nefarious transaction two or three transactions ago, otherwise they could be held liable for transacting and something. This is where you get breaks. This is where you get friction and currencies cannot have friction. Otherwise, they just, the frictionless version comes out and becomes more popular. People go where there's no friction, especially in currency. And so yeah, I'll be interested to see what happens in terms of where people, the dark markets already heading towards Monero and stuff like that on a deep web. People are very suspicious of Bitcoin. A lot of the transactions are still in Bitcoin. But yeah, I definitely think that one of the big things we need to take seriously in the space is not to be talked into the fact that fungibility or privacy is something that only nefarious people need. It is really, really, really important in money. Because for instance, if everyone knows how much money you have, you open yourself up to kidnapping, you open yourself up to a whole lot of really dangerous situations. There's also a business reasons. If you buy your stock and then someone pays you in for that at your stock store, they can actually trace their transaction and see who your supplier is and then cut you out and go straight to the supplier. Whether that's good or bad, it doesn't matter. Matter is that that sucks for you. It also makes it politically very hard, whether you believe that everyone should know what each of your employees is being paid. It's up to you. But if people can just check that, it can cause also a lot of grief and anguish and there might be some reasons you pay different people differently. So fungibility and privacy in money, it's a funny one because people will say like, oh, only dangerous criminals want privacy and money and you think, well, okay, then you should show everyone on Facebook your bank accounts and exactly what you spend everywhere go for it. Do it. But they don't. Of course they don't. Because they, inside, they really know when it's up to the time to do it, that they don't want to do it. And there's a reason why. Because people want that inherent privacy. It is a little bit trickier, like Dan said, it's a synonymous. And so it is a little bit trickier. It's not truly just open for anyone, but anyone that wants to can definitely trace and track transactions. So I think this is like a little wake up call for the Bitcoin community to have another, you know, keep pushing towards Taproot and some of the other things that are coming. But also I feel like lightning and layer two solutions are a good way to make Bitcoin more fungible, even though, you know, there are ways of tracing certain transactions through the lightning network. It does add an extra layer of obfuscation to privacy for all those reasons that are important that I just mentioned. And yeah, so don't get fooled into thinking. And please stop repeating this nonsense that it's only for criminals that, you know, privacy and money, it's not. It's for everybody. And privacy is sacred. And arc. Yeah, there's a Bitcoin we're moving towards eventually privacy, zero knowledge proofs and full fungibility. That's the end game. But the worry then, then the argument, very valid argument, people make is that if you can't trace the way about some all the coins, you may have some sort of inflation bug. So it needs to be done in such a way that you can guarantee there isn't inflation bug and there isn't inflation happening as you can't see, but then still not know the way about some of the coins. And I consent to coin to somebody else and there's, you know, in a zero knowledge way. It's a very complicated problem. But we shouldn't be, this is why when people act like Bitcoin is divine in its current form, and ignore the fact that it's evolved over the years and will continue to evolve and get better, it can have some fungibility through using second layers and lightning and using things like taproot, but ultimately needs to be on chain in order for you to have full fungibility like Josh said, for all the, you know, the houses which exist. There was a landmark case in the mid 1700s, the Crawford case in Scotland where fungibility of money was questioned. So I think someone received some money and it was tainted and then they tried to argue it was tainted and what's caught, think that might be completely wrong, there's something on those lines. And then the court said, no, in order for the money to work, you know, we can't set a precedent and have different money being worth different amounts. And this money is tainted by this because it's been through these hands, etc. Which is what you have when you have these bitcoins going through, going through dark markets. So yeah, these coin mixes, there are temporary bandaid, a way of getting around the Bitcoin not being fungible, not being fungible enough for some people. But in the obviously needs to be done in such a way that you aren't revealing your identity. It was interesting, didn't know that I've done about there. He got caught out by when he originally, it seems to happen quite a lot. So it happened in the with Silk Road as well, didn't it? It was the original decisions he made in the way he operates Silk Road, which then led them to work out who was running Silk Road. So it's a similar trap a few people have fallen through. I was also interested in the amount of bitcoins which went through is 1.2 million bitcoins with a worth of 300 million dollars. So I was like, okay, so a lot of this happened pretty early on then. I'm assuming because, you know, 1.2 million bitcoins is worth a lot more than 300 million million dollars. So I don't know what like, you know, I'm interested where this puts people like Wussar being the dojos and all this coin mix. I'm not very up on coin mixing. I don't know how coin mixing generally works. I know there's some sort of decentralized ways of doing it. But companies can still be held liable if they're real world companies and real world entities. And all the government needs to say is switch the narrative from mixing to laundering, which is what they've done here. And then they can hold those people accountable. So be careful. Do these things in a way which can't come back to you. And then, you know, let's keep building towards a zero-knowledge proof completely private bitcoins, eventually, hopefully, one day. Apparently the service is still online as well. So there's probably like the IRS lurking in the IT office basement. So be careful if you are using it. Wow. Some people will still use it for sure. Oh, yeah. And now it's got great marketing too. Exit question, FUD, fear, uncertainty, and doubt. The mainstream media loves to cover Bitcoin through a limited lens, which FUD will be more popular in the future. Bitcoin is anonymous and therefore finances terrorism or Bitcoin is bad for the environment. Travis Uric. That's the environment. Probably the main story. You already see it happening with such with like NFTs that I was the big market. There's definitely like a uphole case to being understood, right? The thing that's easy to understand. People understand memes, understand art. And when they hear that it's burning all this CO2, that it's, you know, environmentally in front, they've heard that story before. Like, oh, yeah, I heard something about how Bitcoin is much power as Belgium or something like that. So it clicks and like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. I heard that before. That must be true. If they think Bitcoin's bad for the environment, well, they hear about Dogecoin, Dan Eve. I heard that Bitcoin consumes the same amount of power as a trillion doses, Shiba Inu's dragging a sled. But just before, before I give my answer, which I'll give the answer first, actually, I think it's environmental, unless conspiracy, tin foil hats. There's like a, what they call it a red flag or a blickery, whatever, the flag, the flag, they're like, oh, false flag, whatever, like an event will happen. And then people will hop on and be like, oh, this was funded by Bitcoin, you know, this is a reason. So I think environmental is definitely the solution. Yeah, I think it will get the blame. It'll be like something will happen. And they'll be like, oh, forget about the environment stuff. Terrorism, blah, blah, but just takes me back to the final thing, which is a very famous song by Bitt Steeling, also known as Bob Dylan, which is like, how many hops must a Bitcoin move before you can call it clean? That's it. Josh Jagala. Yeah, it's a very interesting one. It'll only be a matter of time until something really bad happens. And it'll be blamed on Bitcoin. And my answer always is, well, we should also ban shoes because terrorists are wearing shoes and it's, it helps them get away from things or whatever. Like there's certain things that everyone uses. So everyone uses currency, everyone uses money. And of course, it's a, it's a quick win for the police to be able to follow money. But it's, it's a very new win. It never used to be like that. And I've said it before in this show that tracing money isn't, isn't the, the, the bees knees and the, that's not how crimes have to be solved. You can go after the actual criminals and do actual police work because there are really terrible people, of course, in this world. And we don't want to help them. That's for sure. The fact of the matter is we, I guess I can speak for everyone on this panel, but believe that Bitcoin is much larger and greater and more fantastic and wonderful for the entire world than, than, than it is bad and good for these people, for these awful people. So, you know, it's, it's, yeah, it does help make crime easier to perpetrate because you can get paid for it easier. And, and hired that. But at the same time, good old-fashioned police work is needed to, to bust these people and they should be busted. People that are doing, you know, a child trafficking or whatever, you know, really shocking of treacherous things need to be taken, taken down. But let's not destroy the entire system of a separation of money and state because of idiots. And this goes for the same arguments for the internet. The internet is such a grand, amazing tool that as soon as you if you crushed it by following everything like made it full on China style internet, I don't think it would be as amazing as it is. It could be, I mean, it already is used as a vast propaganda tool, but it would be way more so if it wasn't as free. That reminds me of something I wanted to mention earlier, Josh, that people are publicly letting people know what they spend on Facebook with Venmo. Venmo by default lets everyone see that you sent someone money for Chinese food, hanging back at debt, or even like you said earlier, child trafficking, which is now a major case with a congressman out of Florida. Ben, Ark, Bitcoin, Fud, Terrorism or Bad for the Environment? Both, I mean, it's good for, you know, lawmen, people, investigators because they can follow the money and follow in the money cell of these people build cases against people. So it's good for them and Bitcoin being sold as private and anonymous is incorrect and we should work towards more fungibility and privacy. There are other solutions like Manero and ZCash and things like that, but it's a bit like Ethereum, it's just impatience. We want these functions in Bitcoin, but rather than waiting for them to get implemented properly, we rush something out and we have like, you know, hard forks on Manero or founder rewards which continue indefinitely like on ZCash. Or with Ethereum, you know, we have like crazy, messy moves towards this proof of stake thing which they've got going on. So it's all how's the castle, how's this built on sand? And we've got to wait for all this stuff sadly, it's going to take time and it's hard to make, but we've got some very clever people working on making it, we've got to wait for all on Bitcoin. But yeah, the further will be climate change, but it's nice that there's been some very public debate between like Jack Dorsey and whilst that sort of stuff because that really helps kind of get the message across that it's not quite as complicate. It's not quite as simple as yeah, Bitcoin, bad, awful for the environment destroying the planet, you have to compare it to legacy financial systems, look at its overall eventual social scalability and the amount of transactions and information you pack into a single transaction, it's very complicated debate. So yeah, and that's good that debate is being had publicly and everyone's learning from it. Moving on to issue two, issue two, Bitcoin's time to shine is fast approaching. Inflation is the word on everyone's tongues. A recent analysis by Bank of America found mentions of the purchasing power plunger spiked on earning calls this quarter. Citations are up more than triple year over year per company, the biggest rise since 2004. In other words, Wall Street finally seems to be heating the shrill warnings of Bitcoiners. Dan Eve is inflation a major threat to the world's economies and will Bitcoin finally be a safe haven against inflation. Well, I know economists which many people would have leaned probably very fast, but I think in terms of that article, I think it started off as a Bitcoin's time to shine as fast approaching. I think it's shine already for the last 11 years against fear and although inflation has kind of been not as hard-cores it's been before, and I go back to this Mars bar costing 20p, 20 pence in British terms, 15-20 years ago, and now it's like nearly a pound. Your money is going down in value, things are costing more, whereas your dollar and your dollar and your pound are going down against Bitcoin, and that's been proven for the last 11 years. From a tech perspective, it's gotten uptime that we get Viagra excited. It's been without shadow of a doubt the most secure network on Earth, and economically it's performed incredibly against most other assets if not all other assets from Newtons to the 2000s level. The fact that Bank of America has said that Bitcoin is not particularly compelling as an inflation hedge, the dollar price disagrees with that, I think. There's a ball time highs or touching upon them, so really anyone who ball up until before February is pretty much up or is up. I think, and funny comments like, that's in talent, there's a olive oil is a better head to against inflation. In which case, after that, heeding his advice, I'm going to go and not just stop off some olive oil, but pre-mind some tulips before the mania kicks in again and screw off Bitcoin, sell it all to Ponzi, to gimmick, blah blah blah, and get high on olive oil. Go for it. Use that against inflation. I've also found Bank of America to be an incredibly poor hedge against inflation. Josh Shigala. Yeah, I mean, people that are, people are realizing that there's inflation, nearly shock right now, but this is typical of humans, humans of humans, that they blame greedy, they blame greed. So they'll say, they're oil companies are so greedy or the housing market, all the people that own houses are so greedy, they're just asking for so much money or that the farmers that are selling the milk are so greedy. And it's just, it's kind of funny because, what's not funny, it's sad that this world's education system is so poor that people don't understand that there's two sides of a trade and both sides of a trade have value and either one of them is either overvalued or undervalued. And you can price stuff in either side. So you can price gold against the dollar or dollar against the gold or you can price the USD against Bitcoin or Bitcoin against USD. But most people will just see that the price is rising something and blame it. And really what wakes people up is, no, actually it doesn't even and this is the extraordinary thing. But through this whole pandemic, we have an extraordinary amount of companies going bankrupt, going down or even if they're not going bankrupt, they're being bailed out and they're just basically not functioning or not earning any revenue. Yet the S&P is at all time highs. How can the S&P be at all time highs? And the vast majority of companies are doing a lot poorer, apart from a few tech giants. This shows something. This shows that well actually the value that's being priced here, which is the USD is going down in value. So it takes more to price things like the S&P. So people say, oh, the S&P is at all time highs. No, the USD is at all time lows and it's going lower. So I don't know. I think Bitcoin is this wonderful thing that's opened up the conversation again. It's this is this renaissance of dinner table talk about inflation that used to be had, especially after the major world wars, where we have after 1945 fast majorities of European countries or even like not like Hungary and stuff, had massive inflationary shocks and that stayed in their heads. Countries like Australia or America haven't really felt that pain for a long time and humans are very short-minded, generally a couple of generations or even I mean even a few years for some goldfish generations. They just forget what it's like. But I feel like Bitcoin has really opened that conversation again and they're learning. So I'm hoping that people heed the warning, see the warnings and start buying rare assets in whatever form is comfortable to them but get the heck out of saving in unit of accounts. It's stop saving in units that are there for actual just you know trading in and start saving in actual assets. Things that are rare can't be printed. I thought for sure you were going to say rare pepies. Ben Arck. Yeah it's a stable coin. It's interesting you mentioned the war because it was after the second world war that Keynes's general theory of economics was best salary in the UK because they wanted a new way to stop things like the disaster, the great depression which went on to lead onto the war and all the economics tried which followed from it. The idea being that if you have a soft currency then you know when you want to increase fiscal and economic stimulus then you can lower interest rates. So people can borrow money very cheaply, produce more puts more money into the system and end up with inflation and these businesses and companies they can develop and they can build they can employ people and they can stimulate the economy and then when it's stimulate too much or sorry I don't want to stimulate too much when you start to have inflation happening and the money becomes worth too little. You then you increase interest rates which means that it's cheaper to use to make more money saving your money so you're less likely to borrow money and then like you know create economic stimulus and then you also increase taxes which then you can then burn those that money. So this idea that we're going to fall into this high inflation crisis in modern developed countries around the world is just it's a very unfeasible unless some lunatic dictator takes control because you can just fiddle the interest rates in order to stop that from happening because the countries have money monopoly they they they produce the sovereign currency so they could just produce as much currency as they want or produce as little as they want and they can fiddle the interest rates to to work for a coordinate. If you look at money as software you have software currency has those functions you have hard currency which has other functions which we enjoy and like you know we particularly with Bitcoin now we has like a depreciating supply we know how much is there no one can sort of fiddle the supply so you get and each have pros and cons to them and if you look at software as money what what software is the best software what you know software is the best software to use when you're bringing large economies and if they you know when you have like capital and capital has to flood into a new sector and grow or a new industry and then you have speculation and overproduction everyone gets you know that's the swing in 20s if all these people get in rich everyone's having parties and everyone's employed everyone's making money on the stock market but that overproduction it's reliant upon supply catching up to production which then doesn't happen so then you have a crisis and everyone uses their jobs businesses close everyone there was hasn't any money kids starve and then there's war so how do you stop that from happening that's why you have software currency now the big problem with software currency since those times is being centralization of the decisions which are made for that software currency so if we can use Bitcoin that's said this before to create software currencies which you federate that control away somehow democratically or you distribute that control people still have access to the free and open source hard money and they can use it for savings the savings you know software great but then you also still have this you know stablecoin chip coin which you can use for everyday commerce and can be used to stimulate the economy when you stimulate the economy to stop absolute disaster in chaos so that's my viewpoint on soft currencies and hard currencies Travis your thoughts on Bitcoin and inflation I really like we just said at the end there been to go off of that I think the important thing to remember is what makes Bitcoin so cool and interesting and useful isn't just the word deflationary it's that it's a transparently programmed monitor of policy it's not just the deflationary it's that we understand why it's deflationary we see why it's deflationary we have control over that and there are coins out there that are taking that monetary policy and trying different things you have projects like rye like as an as an example rai because it's not paid to the us dollar and it has this sort of algorithmic control just you know what it's prices and it's just the goal is just to be stable it just tries to blunt big price swings and people can vote on the policy and they can make changes to that policy and then you also have things like die which is paid to the dollar but these are there are there are a lot of experiments happening where you can take this programmed monetary policy and and give it you know control to the people who are using it with this article also had that I like we were talking about foot earlier this article is as a lot of great fun my favorite is the line from Goldman Sachs about how Bitcoin is at risk due to increased competition when and they're referring to projects my other currencies like a theory em or doge that's sort of it's saying that hey this this ecosystem is getting too interesting you shouldn't buy Bitcoin it's too popular to when people are interested in and using it and trying it out they're not saying that there's too much competition for Bitcoin from Goldman Sachs they're saying there's too much competition from in its space it's growing to own a piece of that ecosystem is going to benefit you no matter what part of it you own because it the addressable market right what it's going after is is everyone all the entire traditional financial sector there is the potential market so like the idea that I'm not going to buy Bitcoin because there's other coins now that are also interesting that's just some great fun as yogi beara said that place is too popular nobody goes there anymore moving on to the exit question forced prediction dan eave the price of Bitcoin this time next week higher or lower I'm going to say I'm going to say is I'm going to say it's going to be the same price I'm going to the sideways Bitcoin boo for pushes Dan goes with the push Josh she got a higher lower one of these push things I'm going for slightly down we need a little bit of correction we've had it we've had a bump I'm not sure like it could definitely go up but I feel like we've had a huge bump if the if the the EMA is there anything to go by we need to touch them again but you know you can draw triangles all day long there's only 21 million of these things it'll probably go up I mean you know it's worth a lot more than what it is at now so yeah Travis Erig higher or lower yeah bullish where you sit at the end I I don't know much about technical analysis I don't stare at charts but you have institutions clamoring for an opportunity to invest in it right now and the last big run up there was a lot of retail interest this time it's big money trying really hard to get involved and they're not yet they're just starting to and arc higher or lower higher no lower no higher no something something will happen some great some great phone will happen and it'll be just awful go and fortunately as Travis was saying you don't have to rely on charts or graphs or any of that nonsense anymore we have the problem solved for you right here with the magic bitcoin predictor ball here we go will the price of bitcoin be higher this time next week here we go against the Wikipedia's advice for shaking the ball this could cause bubbles both in the ball and the bitcoin market this is the weekly the very doubtful very doubtful for next week the ball has spoken and just a doubtful little go down oh very awful higher no changing the ball around it only predicts one way but just a reminder to everyone to give us a thumbs up and to subscribe down below there's about 40 or 50 people watching now but if you all gave us a thumbs up there'd be like 60 or 70 people that's just the way the YouTube algorithm YouTube algorithm works so thumbs up this video and thumbs up like five other YouTube videos yeah I also want to say thanks to all the people that always thumb up I got to say you know every week they're there and they're thumbing up and you know it takes balls to really thumb up this show very good moving on to the ad section check out the brand new world crypto network dot com by DJ booth creator of tally coin and bit coinal and other projects it's got all their favorite videos and now we're tagging the videos so that we can find out what kind of guests are on the videos what kind of topics are on there and working on a lot of new ways to display these videos to you as DJ booth mentioned we have more than 2,800 bit coin and cryptocurrency related videos here on the world crypto 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they'll lose their job either way because what will happen is they'll eventually break when the market is it is it full on hype up the top mode and then the market will crash on them right after they buy in for all their clients and then they'll be oh I'll be sweating and you know hopefully they'll be they'll be okay they won't you know top themselves or anything because you don't want that but it's it's it's it's it's gonna get it's gonna get weird because right now this is this is the time when these big institutions are sweating like crazy because they're not exposed and I'm seeing it on the ground by a few people they're like we've got to get exposure but our mandate states that we're not allowed to be in exotic things and this is getting less and less exotic so they've been able to say well it's not that exotic come on um but yeah the problem is exactly what I said ones that reaches that all-time fever pitch that's when they're going to jump in and people talk about the smart money uh and they've talked about it a long time and me being in spot startups for a very long time I always assume that VCs with the smart money but they're not they're just like the retailers they'll throw money at every crypto uh startup during these bull runs and then when the when the bear market comes in they're like oh no big coins over the crypto is finished uh it's not that interesting anymore the XRP is interesting or whatever um but you know during the bull cycles just like the retailers these so-called smart money are also pho-moing at the mouth so um yeah I really the people out there in stock land he'd my advice either get in some now or wait a little bit because you're gonna get your fingers burnt and if you do don't sell just hold on to it and you'll be right you'll be right mate hey reminds me of something from HUD Sucker Proxy who's the most liquid man on the street wearing HUD Sucker what do you call a sidewalk when it's fully dressed it's wearing HUD Sucker Ben Arck your thoughts on BNY melon and the future of financial advisors distracted me now with HUD Sucker Proxy's a great film you know for the kids 37 floors not counting the mezzanine yeah uh well where we oh yeah now um uh micro strategies gains 400 per 100 percent um this year I thought was pretty impressive oh not this year since they pulled their Bitcoin uh but yeah I mean like crikey you know money people they love things like gold rare art Bitcoin so they very much appeals to them and uh they are they are they are worried about all the inflation stuff so they they they should be behind Bitcoin oh they should hold a certain amount oh there we are did I get something nice um they should hold a certain amount of their assets in uh in Bitcoin but just a small amount of 5 percent is what you need but uh have we got a story later on about Elon and is are we doing Elon we cover really Elon now okay so we talk about Elon now without without spoilers okay so obviously Elon sold 10 percent and then Bitcoin has got all angry like why you know in this free market are you buying something then selling it for more money it's ridiculous you shouldn't do that um uh but yeah so but he said he was testing the liquidity of the market we've then tanked a little bit so you know I'm sure his experiment was got some interesting data we made a Pshelo the money he's still got like he's up like a billion or something on his Bitcoin investment yeah but yeah all these other people are going to get encouraged to to join in when they see the mad games that are rich banks are making when they're all like in their lizard form as a cabal you know sacrificing something probably yes more human or something and then they're all like oh I've got a very dismuch money from Bitcoin this year then they'll want to be like I need this much money to I need those fat gains so they'll be paralleling to as much of time Travis Erick is it time to replace all financial advisors with two short and simple words I Bitcoin be a good start the the story that mentioned as well and that was Tesla putting it on their their asset book right they're adding to their treasury and you're gonna you're you see more of them microsite strategy obviously is the really crazy example where they're all in but just the idea of having a little bit on next year cash reserves next year other assets just as you know just to spread things around a little bit you're gonna see more and more of that the best time to buy Bitcoin is when no one's talking about Bitcoin right and if you barring that the best time to buy is a little bit every day so you're kind of spreading out your risk and these I really love what I've said earlier about how when things get really top really high v that's when these institutions are gonna break that's gonna start buying and that's gonna be a terrible time for them to do it you have yeah you have this this whole the whole market around these hype cycles and they're just gonna add to it I think also it's important remember is these financial institutions they're they're not dumb people they get involved in really weird exotic financial instruments all the time they buy you know tranches of of mortgages and they do always really obscure exotic assets so you think they they definitely are capable of understanding this and it's more around rules from the institution to not touch this new thing and every day it becomes less of that new thing and less of something that they're learning about they're reading your understanding Dan Eve stocks bonds and Bitcoin that's a really good point actually you made sure I was about the fact that you know these exotic instruments and let's let's let's not forget I mean obviously it can't be fully fully blamed on it but credit default swaps you know played a bit of a part in the last little that the global markets in 2000 2008 2007 2008 so they must you know they they are aware of the risks and you know the actuaries you know they take risk into account so surely they're looking at Bitcoin and kind of going but it's kind of up for like 98% of the time it doesn't price like 98% of the time you go bought Bitcoin before like now you'd have been in profit or whatever but it just it's the being one of the sounds a bit like a bit depressing oh I kind of missed the boat you know we had gold gold stocks and they didn't do so well because of the we go we gold prices but you know Bitcoin did really good and we kind of missed out on the exposure to them could have had micro strategy didn't and like that like it just seems a bit kind of like they're they're depressed about it but it sounds like they're going in hard with custody services which is what some of the banks are seeming to do so they digital assets unit and they invested in fire blocks as well but ultimately all the naysay is about Bitcoin yeah they are you can they're itching under their skin to get exposure and if they don't do it soon the exposure they're going to get isn't going to be to Bitcoin it will just look like a flasher in the park and that's not good so you get involved in Bitcoin now obviously a small percentage that's worth risk risk risk evaluated but also going back to Elon the very good point about testing liquidity like the the the fact that he's proving that you know that they bought a shed load of Bitcoin and being able to sell 10% of it proves how liquid it is and you know every every year I I know about Bitcoin that I could be speaking to people about they'd say why would you buy this crazy Bitcoin thing that's totally a liquid why don't you put money in a house well the only the only flat I have a soul to be bloody ages to sell and it's definitely not liquid especially in UK markets whereas Bitcoin could be sold instantly so it is completely liquid and it is a you know it's a free market as Ben said as well it's a good it's a good show that and so much so they they sold 10% and and it didn't impact the markets or wasn't visible it wasn't like oh my god it completely you know it killed the markets in the background it was only people knew about it when once the news came out and that shows how liquid it is it didn't just kill everything so apart from people you know going suddenly going oh it was all 10% or whatever but he's still got his 0.25 bit connoisseurs. Yeah but also what I'd like to add to that is that this is a global company they hold a lot of different currencies on their balance sheet and it's it's a constant balancing act that the CFOs are making between different currencies now when I go to the US I use US dollars when I go to the UK I use British pounds when I'm in Berlin I use Euro and when I'm on the internet I use Bitcoin and they're starting you know when you sell cars over the internet you should use the native internet currency if that place and if you hold too much of one currency you need to constantly rebalance that's just part of their business and so by him testing out the liquidity this is this is I'll hear much you know the company it's all about rebalancing those different exposure levels of different currencies and and that's all and this is a great thing because it means that as they move forward accepting Bitcoin for their cars and all sorts they can keep rebalancing their sheets moving risk around and dealing with with different financial markets and their risk profiles the nice thing about them accepting it for a car purchases is Tesla is buying Bitcoin with cars yeah I tried that with Hot Wheels but was unsuccessful exit question the financial industry failing to recommend Bitcoin for the last 10 years gross criminal financial malpractice or a simple mistake like a whoopsie jashigala idiocy that's what it is it's pure idiocy and and and and it is like these people are meant to be experts it but they not experts because they don't understand the problems that Bitcoin are solving so they couldn't say oh wow probably you know when you when you when you pitch to a VC with a pitch deck it's always problem solution and and you show the problem and then you show your solution they didn't understand that there's a problem with the current financial system a financial system built on debt debt printed out of nowhere and and asking for more interest than exists in the system is a downward spiral an inflationary downward spiral and they just don't get it and they they they're not taught about it so it's a systemic problem and it just is awful to see that so many people have missed out I mean you know at the end of the day eventually it finds its feet and it needed it's it needed this time to grow but if you see something like television and when when color television or even black and white television came out it grew like this massive S curve and and so I think people could tell straight away when they saw television they were like wow this is cool I see with this problem they're solving I can now watch the news at home instead of going to the cinema but with with Bitcoin no one you know if you didn't really truly study money or what it is or have an interest in what money is apart from yeah I remember asking people what is money and they tell it's what my boss gives me or where does it come from it's where it's from my boss they're not they just really didn't get any deeper and this is the fundamental problem that now Bitcoin again what I said earlier is is having that Renaissance of people actually talking about what is money where's it come from why is it important or what are the different forms of money and and this is this is just magic to me but this is happening on a on a global scale again Ben Arck sorry I was thinking about it with my thing so I don't know what you said I don't know what was the question sorry is it a simple mistake that they didn't recommend Bitcoin or gross criminal financial malpractice yeah that's being stuffy old conservatives and they they're not you know being cool and progressive but as always the great Andreas argument that it just was a matter of time when these people who were digitally native became you know got into positions of power and then then they just stop using Bitcoin and buying up Bitcoin and if you think when Andreas did what did that so I suppose my axel was probably still where he is now but I do think there's a lot I mean still you know we've got a whole generation of kids who loves a blood Bitcoin they love the idea of Bitcoin and then to stand it you know they don't understand you know how money works fear money works but then stand a Bitcoin works and stand it they can buy Bitcoin as opposed to buying stocks and shares so yes no it was just stuffy old conservatives not not not thinking about not being on the cutting edge so I'm sure they probably lost a few customers from it and they should have Travis or Rick that phrase he used initially the failure to recommend 12 like kind of two reasons one I'd say they did more than just fail to recommend it was definitely a lot of fun launched out against crypto a lot of it unintentional it's it is a new thing it is weird but they certainly trumpeted it and worked quite hard to show that information the other side of it is failure to recommend it it's not even a record I don't recommend anything radical it can be really simple people put a tiny percentage of their portfolio into high risk investments all the time you don't have to jump all in you know hold have a Bitcoin flag you know that you run around you know yell on how Bitcoin's everything it's the future you don't think it's going to just you know destroy the traditional financial sector just look at this thing that's interesting unique a new asset class that doesn't happen it's very rare that you get a new asset class and you can have your your fund manager recommend yeah sure it could have a percent whatever the failure to recommend it was not a very high bar that they had to do and they're being paid to learn and understand new financial assets if somebody comes out with a new financial asset it's a it's a their professional role to understand it to learn about it and it's okay if you have bad takes at first but to keep learning it yeah can I just add to that I had a friend who who I was talking a lot about Bitcoin and she was very very interested this was back in my I know 2013 or something 14 and and she told her father and her father's quite wealthy and he was I was just sounds really interesting he was very very interested in it of course I as a I'm not a licensed financial advisor so I couldn't give any financial advice but I said it's very interesting these are the things that solving yada yada yada as a typical and Bitcoin does not shut off about it then he said oh before I jump in I'm going to go that they're holding this town hall meeting brought to you by the police and the mayor and stuff about investing in Bitcoin I'm gonna go to it he came back so scared of investing in it no I'm not touching it no way the could the policeman gave a half an hour really amazing you should have been there Josh you should have been there anyway he's he's not only like super angry at himself because it's a very proud guy now where it's gone he's he's in a full depression because of it and and this is this is really really sad is that these these uh you know I don't think it's just like off on actual vizers haven't been advertising remember why Satoshi left Bitcoin was because you're going up against massive power structures you're going up against retail banks you're going up against national banks and and and federal reserves um central banking you're you're going up against uh the the oil back dollar uh you're going up against a whole bunch of power structures and um and this has a massive trickle down effect and and so why why I often thought why did they have a town hall about Bitcoin no like and then just fully funding it um in fact I also went to a talk here in Germany about uh that was put on at the central bank um and the guy there was going on about how terrible Bitcoin is and it's this and it's that cons of the whole time and I put up my hand and said hey excuse me have you ever sent a transaction have you ever used it and you said oh no no and I said oh let me afterwards you know give you give you a little lesson on how to how to transact so what that said to me is that there's a there's a larger game at play here where these large power structures and we forget in Bitcoin we think ah you know it's just Bitcoin haha it's fun but actually it threatens a lot of old power structures and and um and I think we forget that and that's that's uh that's why I think it hasn't been recommended as well it of course the small financial advisor doesn't isn't some sort of puppet for the puppet masters but this fear of not getting a bank account or oh if they find out that I've been playing and then my bank account will be frozen and stuff like that so there's a whole structure there that that is the reason why people weren't recommending it early personally I go to the police for all my investment advice I also love their music Dan Eve gross criminal financial malpractice or a simple mistake like a whoopsie you know but being brutally honest about it you'd have to as a as a customer you'd have to you know really question the abilities of your financial advisor if say you know even if it's the last three is them going yeah you don't want to you don't want to retouching that you know like how how many all-time highs do you need how many all-time highs do you need before you before you give in um but I think Bitcoin needed to be kind of under the radar it needed to be mocked and feared in order to to infiltrate the foundations of of internet money so that it could be even more multi-headed snake you can't shut this down because it's just you you know it's becoming more and more ubiquitous and the more ubiquitous it becomes the harder it is to shut it down so I think it kind of needed that element of a worst fear behind it but it's it's it's same that you know one thing I've noticed is especially working in tech and um you know old school hat on with as a business analyst people kind of fear technology they don't understand they you know they really hate it and they really hate it even more if someone else kind of younger than them or in whatever category that they see shouldn't understand it as much like you know the technology that it makes them angry about and fearful and that's when you get these town hall pitchforks like oh the Bitcoin oh the Bitcoin you know that south part episode where everyone's like oh the Bitcoin you know and oh I can imagine one in the future they should cover Bitcoin um but yeah it's it's uh Bitcoin needed needed to kind of be feared in order to be to evolve into the stage it did and um yeah your your fund manager uh they may have got you some massive gains or whatever you know like a 4% busting your your isop performance over the last year but that's nothing compared to Bitcoin and if that person's advising you on on how to make money then they're not doing a good job second Dan's message on them ignoring the all-time highs reminds me of that classic joke where the religious man is watching the news and it comes on about a flood warning and he says I'm not worried about that I'm a very religious man uh later on he's up on the roof of his house and a man comes by in a robot trying to save him and he says I don't need to be saved by that I'll be saved by God I'm a very religious man later on a helicopter comes by and puts down a ladder he says hey come on up here we want to save you he says don't worry about me I'm a very religious man God will take care of me and after he died in the flood he's up in heaven talking to God he says where were you why weren't you taking care of me and God says I sent a news report a robot and a helicopter what more do you want here moving on to issue four issue four a meme gold rush classic viral images are selling as NFTs for thousands of dollars in the past monetizing a meme was nearly impossible for its creator NFTs have changed that leading to a meme gold rush Josh Shagalla your thoughts on the recent trend of major memes suddenly turning around and selling the original image as an NFT for thousands of dollars yeah I love it I think it's fantastic if your if if your image went crazy for a while there why not you know and I a lot of a lot of these memes meme characters they get a little bit of an injection of cash right up the front up front and then they sort of don't know how to manage the money or they don't have proper managers or whatever and they're just sort of you know fiddles out fiddles out I don't fizzles but for instance the ain't nobody got time for that woman she she also got an injection of cash and it went away same with the they they broke into my neighbor's house and there's there's all these video memes as well so I'm really glad that they can earn a good a good amount of money and then be done with it but it is a one-off so you know you better be taking that money and putting it and keeping it in Bitcoin it is funny Josh to see these memes make just a little bit of money because of course these interviews pay nothing and they become famous and yet they don't have any money it's bit like being a minor celebrity you still have to ride the bus you still have to go eat at McDonald's or whatever and everyone's like wow you were in that show it's like yeah that doesn't keep paying Ben Arke your thought on the memes being an F.P. yeah um uh it it makes sense doesn't it doesn't it we've got digitally scastings so and people couldn't like trade them and stuff which is what we've wanted and I'll will digitally native because of covid I'm actually I'm trying to trigger that Martin meme because the disextension soon was still being PR PR mode um it'll be on uh Ellen Bitts or somebody somebody saying glitter that's nice oh look oh no I did oh we did too many this is the problem I need to get them to queue um I think Martin yeah someone's done the someone's done the face I think Martin's at like I think he's at like 50 sats maybe we get Martin let's try I try 50 sats um yeah no I like the idea of this uh I saw rocket that's more boring is I can actually trigger it I can cheat and trigger it right so no one's understanding so let me trigger Martin for a second where is he there he is so you know we all miss Martin he's not been around for a while because he's very busy doing cool bitcoin stuff um and uh uh now when this extension eventually gets PR'd into Alan Bitts all those umbrill nose and blitz nose I'll have Martin like there's a little rockets and they got glitter and then they've got a boy he's like he's in there he's in the package so hopefully he'll propagate through the system and then he can and after it and he can like somehow I don't know I don't want to see him is I think uh doesn't he like sign it to say yes I am Martin and I have signed this thing and then and then he then sells that isn't it like a signed copy to say this is the one the object copy yeah one of the best descriptions I saw of an NFT is it's like the artist signature a lot of people are trying to say it gives you the rights or it gives you the copyright or all kinds of or it gives you the ability to get into a concert anything it's a lot better like an artist signature or like a collectible like a digital car like a baseball card or a print like you're taking a poster making a poster version of something how do they how do they verify the um the uh that they signed it do they have to take a little video well I mean I do think that's part of the rub of whether people have the rights to make these NFTs if you look at wax uh they have this white listing button and you generally keep that on so that you're safe if you turn the white listing off you'll see that everyone everywhere has made a copy of whatever it is the weezer NFT with an extra e a major league baseball with an extra b somebody else's stolen image so there is a lot of people who aren't the real people trying to make NFTs of these so it is neat hopefully these uh famous memesters are who they are and are actually getting the money because it would be so sad if uh you know disappointed girl or whatever disaster girl was stolen from again I'm gonna go I mean I'm gonna I'm gonna just I'm still I still really don't understand NFTs and I think a lot of people probably are watching don't really understand NFTs so like obviously we have the curiocards OGs here so can you please one of you explain like the NFT well what is going on with these NFTs why people look side to battle and what are they for just you know I know obviously but I'm just asking for a friend you know good explanation all the Travis given the tri-travis is here from curiocards that I also worked on with Travis and Rhett Crate and go ahead Travis I think the easiest way is it doesn't have to be thought of that different than regular art already it's a new kind of paper a new kind of paint but it's it's just art if you think about digital art specifically the only way digital artists can make money before was you know they go work a Pixar or they'll work a beer game company or they you know print some stuff out and sell it and try to get into a gallery digital art is just the idea of you can you can create a piece of digital artwork you know using digital tools the digital paint digital paper and people who like your artwork who like you who support what you work on can buy it and they can have that sense of ownership and just the same way every Bitcoin is a collectible each one of these can be a collectible you can't count it then you can't fake them obviously you could take some the art make your own NFT and say aha here it is but for that it comes down to bring it back to the meme example these meme after these are happening it's this kind of legitimacy through continuity you can look at where this NFT came from and you can look at who was the person who issued it and and that's what makes it legitimate so for the disaster girl one if you have you know the person who she is disaster girl everyone knows that it's her and she tweets out she messages out hey look I made this thing here it is here's the the contract address for it and then you know five years from now whatever people can be like yeah it's the one that's been traded 100 people have owned it it's gone around you know people who love the meme have been trading and buying it and you know the person who loves it the most has it now it's the same one you can trace it back all the way to that initial time when the person said hey I'm making this and these memes are really different than traditional forms of monetizing creative work you generally get say you make money per unit right you make a comic book yourself and you make money per unit you make a song you know you license it out you make money per unit with an NFT that's for a meme no one's no one's in paying to use disaster girl as a as a meme I can go on discord and I can have a little emoji button for any for any a meme that I want and you know no one's getting paid for that but that doesn't mean that it doesn't benefit the the the the meme creator the fact that disaster girl is so popular now the fact that it's everyone knows it everyone's seen it everybody loves everybody uses it that's why someone out there who is a really big collector is like oh yeah I know this one I like it I used it a lot I want to get the one from the person to create that legitimacy through continuity anybody can make an NFT out of it but if I get the one is made by her it's legitimate one and the more people who share these memes more people who love these memes the more valuable these NFTs are that's a completely different way of monetizing creative work I totally agree it's very much a collectible and it's as valuable as someone will pay you for it so you got to watch out for that Dan Eve your thoughts on NFTs and memes I think it's really cool that that finally people that that got who have featured in memes got getting more for for being featured than just like I know a beer at a bar every now and they're like oh you're like overly attached girl you know that sort of thing or like heckled it around you across the street or even a compliment maybe hopefully but so one thing it's called about disaster girls that she's donating 10% to to charity I think every time it gets resold so that's that's pretty cool but it's nice that people get paid for it I think we chat with with disaster girl the having a dad took the photo but another way thinking about is well that person who's in the photo is the you know the creator of the meme but what about the person who took the picture in and they're part of it because they're the one that captured that moment so that that maybe but maybe there's a second a secondary NFT market so that you've got like the the subject and the creator I don't know I'm just just you know maybe just give me some some credits 10% everything the sales on the secondary NFT market it becomes a but I think it's cool that that yeah that people are finally being paid off for it and then I think the I like the analogy of the NFT is more like an autographed version of the person the subject or the primary beneficiary it's like the official stamp and the obviously there's different ways of verifying that they might produce a video they might say it's them just like when you were to buy anything you at least check the website you're on you know so you check that you're buying the NFT from the original person so it comes with the same risk as buying anything that's a a dud and as anyone knows especially to people that you know buy a crazy artwork you know for certain prices and find out it's a it's a fake you've got to do your due diligence before you go and fork out all your Ethereum but I think one of the arguments that I think's quite silly about NFTs is that that you know most of them are this is you know obviously there's the tulip the blah blah blah that you hear about Bitcoin in general but that most of them most of them will fail and most of them will be crimped they're like well that's that's like the same for everything that's like you know the same for everything on earth you have the things that you know from the entire industry the pyramid of like everything underneath it and you know about the few at the top because those are the ones that make it that's why you've got the term that make it so I think yeah it's the market decides and when I was explaining Bitcoin before I kind of knew about the the card core economics of everything which I don't know still anyway it's always a learning curve but it's just that if people want to buy it they're going to buy it if people want to buy a piece of art that buy a piece of art if people want to buy the poo and pizza bed that was in the tape one they'll buy the poo and pizza bed now have the poo and pizza bed there and they'll look at it every now and then and be like I'm not going to maybe I'm going to sleep in that but is it going to be worth more or less I don't know but that's someone else's subjective objective whatever you know so I think NFTs I think they're kind of cool and yeah I'm with I think it's called that that people have been paid off for their fame that they kind of would have only got a bit of payment via interviews and stuff so yeah I like the interesting thing about how some of them make it some of them down the news they have this tendency and I don't fault them for they cover the big story right this is the most an NFTs ever sold for this is the most a meme NFTs ever sold for and so we see these big headlines and we don't hear anything else and the idea is there's the few that really make it in a bunch that don't but most of the NFT market it's collectors and artists buying from themselves there's a lot of trade volume on very low popularity NFTs out there I think your cards itself we've it's something like a 750 thousand dollars in trade volume has happened and this is not a popular card it's people know about it because of its age but it's not crypto pumps right and that's that's the headline and you just follow some of these artists and go on some of their sites you'll see they're they release art but buy it you know people who love that art buy it the next time they release some art the same people out there bidding and then people will trade it amongst themselves but a lot of times it is someone who loves someone's artwork they buy it themselves and they hold on to it and that market isn't really covered does does us to go get paid every time it's traded on like a decentralized exchange is that how it works it depends how it was set up generally you if like if you're on open sea for instance you can have a royalty associated with it so percentage of all trades on that platform go to you it's technically possible to have it like built into the smart contract right where every time a sale happens money gets sent back but that's extremely gas expensive so you don't see it that much anymore there are some older projects that did that they built it in like data has that and they're just get rewarded for every trade I just think there's a gas cost issue mostly it would be much better if it was built in a lot of people are just blindly saying you'll get 10% forever but we all know if 10% some million dollars it's so much easier for me to just take my username and password and give it to you or for you to buy it on the market for a dollar and to pay me the other million on Venmo there's a million ways to get around this that you don't have to be clever everyone's just kind of blindly saying this like artists will get 10% forever everything's going to be great and I don't believe it at all so yeah it comes down to the platform comes down to the platform doing this sale right because that's where the people find each other that's where the market happens so you you can put whatever you want in the contract but open sea has a royalty setup so if you're trading open sea the person who created the card you know they're getting that cut however however it works and Christie's I think they also you know have some policy I'm sure whatever the policy of the institution that you're trading on is that's going to be the policy so you'll pay attention to where you buy things and what their policy is and who's actually getting rewarded as well not just if it's the legitimate one I love what you said Dan about how you know the person who took the photo they can make their own NFT as well and that's where you get into the the really cool thing about crypto these these are consensus networks so it's going to be yeah that legitimacy a continuity but also what do people think is the real one maybe they don't care about photographer maybe there's this huge group that does yeah fascinating I would like to see one thing I can imagine is if I've got a set but I haven't got that one last card and I don't know who I would love to be able to have the contract being able to automatically bid within the contract so send ETH or whatever into the NFT that's outstanding and the person that has it starts to see I'll look there's there's this much currency okay I'll accept and when they accept then it goes without having to like track them down or I've scream on some NFT subreddit to ask for that last card it'll be really interesting yeah you had funcsted that um funcsted inside of funcster's like a bidding system obviously you can bid as well you can say I will pay an out for this funcced it in a couple of them had it into the major platforms everybody's every's checking their cars is where they're they're tokens like oh people want this and they go see the bids against it I think we're going to see as well it's really fun it's collective buying I think this has already happened a couple of times I can't remember the name of it I'll pop my head but there was this group they got together and they pulled all their money and they did one of these big headline NFT buys recently it was just a group of people who put all their money together into a smart contract wow that's nuts what about um what about this guy historian done on the NFT and yet because you could do a whole series of NFTs and people would collect them and they would they would fact because he's got the memes doesn't he you really could and he owns the right to his image he could take custom photos all kinds of options dress up in a costume anything he's so incredibly well known I don't I don't know we should get that idea out to him he hasn't really been heard from since at least you're a historian so that Andreas gave him the money and then of course when Travis and I and cryptography and others had him at the crypto art show in San Francisco yeah probably the best for him to take a quiet yeah Travis you need to you need to reach out to Dorian and the philis pie we had him up this show everybody want to get their photo taken with him it was great and and the nice thing with that kind of continuity like the legitimacy like what makes people want the NFT is he know people are out there putting his image on stuff it's not going to be the thing that everybody's excited about they're going to be excited when Dorian you know goes on Twitter and is all like hey I made I made it you know this is this is the real one it doesn't matter if people are copying his image off which is what they do right now his image is used constantly about his permission well no they can't take control of that back what's all the stuff they raised they raised all that money for him because Andreas and others were very pressy and on this and they were like yeah this guy's going to get kind of a bad deal like he's going to be famous oh but he's not going to get anything like we're talking about earlier with the other people the artists and such yeah Dorian you know never really got anything but they gave him a large amount of Bitcoin in the beginning and I hope he held it is that he's the do's the sweetest I spoke to him for a couple of hours at Bitcoin 2019 is such a nice bloke when when when can we get NFT some Bitcoin then what do we need to do how do we how do we make that happen well the first NFTs were on Bitcoin rare cafes I was counter party but colored coins you know I'd be interested to see what you can do with other layer 2s like lightning potentially there's also a lot of question around can we get those NFTs ported over to the new markets like open sea there's a they'd be incredibly valuable in that way the history of NFTs definitely started with Bitcoin I do know that people are working on new NFT platform still time Bitcoin a little bit more modern but counter party still works actually checked out the wallet recently and it's on par with like a wallet you see in an Ethereum app they were extremely far ahead of their time when they made that really and was well like colored coins when they first launched you know and this was years ago it's probably and they had a Dex too kind of part of the full Dex I mean we didn't have Dex as an Ethereum until like late 2017 and they had it on counterparty and it still works great yeah yeah and a counterparty could create Ethereum I mean a couple of them there was this big fight between the counterparty guys and and Ethereum anyway there's also counter there's Doge Party right counterparty on Doge party I remember them oh yeah man I you know I really really like the whole colored coin concept I always loved it I think it's it's amazing and and I do want to see I want to see it back on Bitcoin I think the sad thing with Bitcoin and I know a lot of people give me hate for this but is that we've just sort of sat ourselves and said no where the store of value like as a community as that's all the store of value we don't need to be anything more and like I get it I fully get it I'm there with you on that but but I do feel like there is so much more to currency and programmer will money and I want to see that programmer on the side of the money being more utilized on Bitcoin I'm really doing 100% I totally agree yeah yeah it's like I like it you know you know Bitcoin's compared to to HTTP and HTTP wasn't just about sending messages it's become more than that it's become about data and everything that you can do with data and so and Bitcoin is that it's it's not just like the money perspective it's like every it's an infrastructure and that's the cool thing about it is like what can you do with an infrastructure I don't know like everything and that stuff that we can't even think of what was who was it who said was it like David Bowie said like that explain the internet as like being some crazy alien or something like that and yeah that's I think that same thing applies to Bitcoin except the moment we're seeing more of the alien on on the clones on on the other networks and you know we need to bring the alien back to Bitcoin yeah I know it's called the Bitcoin group but you do see a lot of this on networks like Ethereum but you're also seeing people take those ideas and think okay how does this work for Bitcoin oh that's cool so they're they're recognizing that it would be great to have it work on Bitcoin and I do know there are some projects that are building new code for lending and NFT because Bitcoin oh man he needs to be on Bitcoin obviously when he sent me NFT yeah so I might see his your way for and block stream is working on some NFTs on Bitcoin they did some kind of a game about a year ago where it had NFTs as the pieces but it doesn't seem like it took off the way that the Ethereum NFTs are taking off or the art NFTs are taking off it's still a lot quieter that's I think part of it is where the collectors are there's a huge network of people buying and selling each other's artwork collecting artwork they love and that ecosystem is on Ethereum right now because that's where the artisans was with a product is so that's something that just that's just time it's just factor of time you know one thing that I've often said about Bitcoin and why it will always have value compared to every other altcoin is that it had it was the first and that's what I find very interesting about NFTs is they have value because the original person signs that and oh the original artist signs it and and it's funny because you know it's the same with Bitcoin it's like even even if something becomes way better in terms of currency and everything else they're still collectors out there that will say I've got a part of the Bitcoin network and it was the first it was the original Bitcoin as the cryptocurrency meme each coin signed by Satoshi Nakamoto himself yeah right on what could be more collectible than the signature of the world's only anonymous person who goes oops guess who's who's who's who's who's who's who's moving on to the exit question years ago it might have even been on this show and Dreisense and Opelus told us about a world where every kid on the playground would have their own coin there'd be Joey coin and Freddie coin and Tom coin and Joey coin would be trading it two to one to Freddie coin because Joey is just so popular a few weeks ago I asked everyone if they'd purchased an NFT now I'll ask you will you make your own NFT and if you did what kind of NFT would you make Josh Shigala I mean NFT yeah I think we are I mean we're working on some really amazing stuff at Valtaro on a side project actually and and yeah it's not quite an NFT but I think NFT's play a really really large role in the distribution of of of CDPs and being able to trade CDPs so there's a whole bunch of stuff there that you know we mainly think of NFTs we think of art and digital collectibles but I think of the mess of 2008 whenever I was trading mortgage back securities and splitting them and and reclateralizing them and then splitting them again and mixing them with other ones and then some strange municipal in Australia was buying a whole bunch of weird subprime mortgages out of the US and holding it on their balance sheets and no one knew who who their mortgage belonged to anymore so I think NFTs are a beautiful solution for this and yeah there's some I think I'll probably be working on something like that in the future somewhere. Bear Stearns coin and Lehman Brothers coins were terrible buys. What kind of NFT would you make? He's gone. Only the QR code remains. Let's go to Travis. What kind of NFT would you make? Oh and aside from the ones that we made back in 2017 Tom if I were to make some you know myself I'm not much of an artist I do like generative artwork that I'm seeing more more. We actually write a formula and equation that then generates the image and what's cool about those is you can store the seed and you know the math of that image inside the token itself rather than having to have the image hosted on an essentialized file platform. I also a friend of mine he doesn't call key in coin and it's there's only it's a it's not an NFT it's a ERC 20 token it's a coin but there's only one of them because the one key and it's divisible and you can own a part of key in and I think I have like point one eight or something of key in coin I like that idea I think that's really fun. It's only a good deal if you get the right part Dan E singing dancing animated crypto raptor. I've got it I suppose I've got it like the crypto rap is an NFT this little bad boy as well that one left left there the him or as in you know the the postage stamp maybe only if it reaches 120 or if I'm poor and it doesn't reach 120 and I just want to try and make some money but yeah I want to do I've got some cool ideas for NFTs in the future will I wait for Bitcoin for if NFTs be on Bitcoin it would be lovely wouldn't it but I don't know the fees are just too damn high on Ethereum at the moment so I don't know I've got I'll get the brain tickers going but yeah so work hard developers and stuff and and get it working on Bitcoin and that would be that would be better than launch on. Ben R you could make an NFT for every one of your projects are you with us now? I just I want wanting to get an NFT but the right point you need to sign it once it's propagated and it's out there by the way the money made on this by people that been out to you know sugar the animations is is now here if you scan it with your lightning wallet you can pull out some stats thousand stats no I don't know how much that's worth now but that's probably worth money isn't it real money or it was for a while but that's the money made from that so that's pretty cool yeah no I want to see what you're saying that's a forza it's a live forza right here on the world and it's too kind he's giving his money back but then later on people will say wow think of all the money they gave back during that show yeah no I just this guy I want to see him NFT in on Bitcoin that'd be dope shout out to Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto moving on to exit question or story of the week prediction or story of the week let's go to Dan Eve you're always ready with a prediction or a story of the week after a stint of being put on the spot I've been thinking about stuff like front so story of the week sad story since Ron the meme side is that one apologies for pronouncing it wrong I didn't do the all the research but one lawyer Bojah's passed away he's the laughing guy you know like that the weezing kind of laughing guy the the gif you don't know yeah so I think I thought I saw about the Dow and then they put the keys that you could take in there so I said that he can't benefit from that but again going back maybe the person who took the video can I don't know which was a so chattcho that's my story of the week which is nothing to do with me but also on the maybe it shouldn't be anyway I don't know I don't know what the rules are we didn't define the rules so I just make them up prediction so so since this has been a bit memey towards the end so my prediction is that there's one of three of these memes will be maybe not the next week but soon it's going to be the earn a gift meme you know like the the girls like the whitest on the hand like the vampire things or whatever or an adventure I'll pack my bags I love that one with the alpaca and the percentage would go towards donating to an alpaca century and also or a slash ball really so one of these three or really stone guy know the really stone guy it's like one of those will become a meme that's my prediction one of them I was gonna say oh go ahead Josh Shagalla prediction or a story of the week I remember what I'm gonna say later um so we're partnering with a project that's absolutely epic and ultra it's it's it's stunning I've been working a lot with her and um yeah I guess if you're into air drops you should join ultra that's all I'm saying join Voltoro mysterious air drops Ben arc prediction or a story of the week go ahead yeah do do join Voltoro because that detect their building is amazing I can just imagine what's going on behind the scenes and some of the cool stuff that people got to look forward to um I think payment splitting is probably my story of the week so uh Fih Jaff he made his uh cryptography he did like a DJ set and then there's no on your alpaca and the people paid enough they could download the track they would be you know given a link and they could then download so you look so they could tip basically like people are tipping here um but if they pay enough they can then get a link for the download of the the particular song which is playing at that particular point but the interesting point is the when the payment is made uh 10% goes towards the DJ and then 90% goes towards the music producer so it kind of splits the payment because you can do this in lightning because it's pretty much free transactions so whatever and you know even for little tiny micro transactions hey perfect confetti um but a lot of other people have said well I mean I was speaking to that Brian uh trying to bloke and he was saying well it'd be nice for a sales scenario where the salesperson gets their percentage on the point of sale like when they sell something they they they then instantly just get their percentage and they can see that you know the earnings just going up um and then so we were thinking about maybe making an extension in Alan Bits which does payment splitting and then we think it actually you know we should just make this a utility that when something in the API like you wouldn't see it all the time but if you wanted to build some functionality into an extension where uh when you when you submit a payment to Alan Bits then you could also submit um like an array of wallet addresses or Alan Bits or something with the percentage and then the the the the funds could just get split across those different wallets I think it's really powerful stuff I was and I you know obviously being you know for a commy lefty socialist type I was like in the idea of using it for something like a cooperative you know if you have like a handful of people you want to sell something and you could they could all agree on a percentage so when a sale happens like what percentage goes where um and and and just have that you know revenue goes directly to to people rather than some of the surplus being taken by the capitalists pick at the top of the the chain so anyway so but most being silly the um uh uh I was very interested in payments splitting and the idea of using it for cooperatives um but just payments splitting in general like it seems to be a useful function of money and I want to see it developed and and hopefully we'll integrate Alan Bits but that's that's my story of the week is just thinking about payments splitting like and how powerful it is just that concept so part of soft-to-feat Jeffries marvelous uh uh cryptography example of splitting a payment between a couple of people Travis Erig prediction or story of the week I'll bring in some some defi news it's related to Bitcoin I think it was yesterday that even before this project called Alchemix announced they're going to add Bitcoin as a collateral type but all you need to know about Alchemix is it's loans that pay themselves off so you you put your Bitcoin in and they extend the credit line you can take a loan out and that part's normal but what they do is they take that Bitcoin and they invest it and they earn interest and they do all these things with it and that interest is applied to your loan so if you have Bitcoin you can take a loan out against it and then to sit back after a few years the loan pays itself off and they just say they just announced Bitcoin as well in Soviet Russia you don't pay the loan the loan pays you all right uh thanks to everybody for joining today be sure to give us a thumbs up and subscribe down below check out that new worldcryptoNetwork.com webpage and give DJ booth a shout out it's really cool stuff and we're working on tagging those videos so if you're interested in watching some worldcrypto network videos and tagging which guests or which topics we talk about send a DM to madbitcoins on twitter and i can get you started on that and WCN clips subscribe to WCN clips i see it in my uh my subscriptions all the time now there's some really good uh description some kind of click baity descriptions get you excited about the shows get you in the door and then uh give you that information and tons more shows and tons more information so subscribe to WCN clips share WCN clips maybe share one and tag the worldcrypto network maybe you'll get retweeted by the worldcrypto network that sounds pretty all right i think we're running out of time for today uh it's been kind of a long one but thanks to everybody for joining us uh be sure to subscribe to the worldcrypto network check out benn's new videos he's been building stuff with lightning he made a point of sale and all kinds of other cool stuff he's been projecting graphics on the screen all of it done with lightning so thanks so much to everybody for joining us until next time