The Bitcoin Group, the American Original, for over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Stefan Kinsella from the Open Crypto Alliance. Hello. Ben Arck from BTC, IoT. Hello. Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Hello, hello, hello. Josh Shigala from Valtoro. Bonjour, mate. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Bitcoin price decline deepens, heads for the worst week since February. Technical charts suggested a weakening trend with altcoins rallying and now sliding as the Bitcoin price slides towards $50,000. Bitcoin is down 9.8% since Sunday, the biggest drop on the weekly price charts since late February. Stefan Kinsella, the price of Bitcoin is in near freefall. What will we do is the bull run over. It's a good time to buy. I was glad to see that it's on sale. Bitcoin on sale, Ben Arck. Yeah, it's people who've been selling off for quite a while. So I was surprised that the price didn't seem to be. That's what made me very bullish because I knew a lot of people who were selling Bitcoin to buy stuff like houses and. Bitcoin cars and invests in other things and. My businesses and things and the price didn't seem to be dented by it. So it showed how much so it infused. I knew when it was coming into Bitcoin. Like it wasn't just because it has been periods in the past where everyone's just been huddling. There's been no Bitcoin on the markets. The price has gone up. Where's that didn't seem to be the case this time round. There's been this. A couple of big events with taxes. So now I think in the US you have to pay double or you will have to pay double capital gains. So there's probably a whole bunch of people cashing out while the price is high. Because they think, well, I'm going to have to pay double tax on it then. I might as well cash out now. But with all this crazy upward price momentum every time. We have these crazy uproar price. Even these bull runs and even if they're not sustainable on the price. They're going to be like, well, I'm not going to lose my money. I'm not going to lose my money. I'm not going to lose my money. So I'm not going to lose my money. Drops fairly significantly. It's the hard to the bad rock. Like it sucks people in. And a percentage of those people aren't going to let go of that Bitcoin. They're going to hold onto it. And they're going to hold onto it. And that just limits the supply more. So I'm still bullish on Bitcoin. It's just that again, like, you know, that top wedge of traders and. Opportunists and people are people who are probably better at managing them. But it's a little bit who are who are selling out now. And that's why the bad rock continues to build, which gives us a much stronger. Bakes for the price to go even higher. So, you know, I'm still looking at the $230,000 price target. And this is I'm sure will be, you know, back up in a week or so. Dan, Eve, 100 trillion USD. The stock to flow model agrees with Ben. Are we still going up? Well, I like to think that the the prophecies will remain intact. You know, but there's always a small piece of me that's a bit chicken-licking like, oh, God, the sky's falling. And the really indicator is that my mother's and phone we just say is it's Bitcoin dead yet. So she's she's not. Copic lady yet. So I think we would we still have time. We're still in the ball run. We're still in the in the channel. And there's phase as well. It's like what 50. Even just touching 51k now. It was like 12k at Christmas. Oh, sorry, Christmas in the beginning of December. So it's had one hell of a run. It is going, you know, below them, you know, move in date, 50 day, move in average, which, you know, people, people kind of make their trading moves on. But I think as Ben said, the double cap gains. Could be could be part of the sell off. Also Martin was saying in the group, but he that the there's a billion plus in options expiring today. And there was a power cut in China. So that that could also probably have it. And these small factors have a bit. And people just taking profit because you know, Bitcoin's gone up so much. It's like, you know, they clever people. They'll sell a little bit. Well, they're not clever. That way they should hold. And I said, yeah. Any penny, penny. The sky is falling. It's all over. I mean, the funny thing is like I would just not care. I was like, whatever I have, I've done some one of these people. But you know, I'm lucky enough to get in early. Very early. So it's it's all right. But I had to I had to sell some to buy a large, like a large purchase in my life, namely a house. Some way to live. And I decided to buy it. And you start to feel that stress of like, oh, it's done. And so you know what? I got a I got a cellar now because who knows, I there is. There was a lot of volume. That sort of held up at this level, but then it dropped below. At around about 48. In terms of. Dollars and then euro. You know, conversion. I thought, I look, you know, this is I've got a I've got to just go now. And you can all you guys can all thank me. But I turned as soon as I sold the market turned around and went all right back up again. So no, you're you're all welcome. That's always the way moving on to the exit question. Steph and Consilla, the price of Bitcoin this time next week, higher or lower. Higher. And Eve. I'm going to break my losing streak and say, although it did nearly touch 65. And I'm going to say. Higher. Ben. Arc. I'm going to say lower. The next week. But then back up the week after. Earlier lower. Josh Cigala. Yeah, I mean, I have been really looking at these charts. Obviously for obvious reasons. And I, I'm not just saying this because I sold some. I do believe it's going to go lower. I think there's not very much resistance here at all. It went up to this level. It just crews all the way up to this level pretty easily. It didn't stop for a while and pause and give some nice. New areas of support. Or even resistance. And so if you know, it did drop below this, this point. And I just was, you know, yeah, this is this is a risky area. When I say that, I'm just talking short term here. I'm just talking short term. Long term. In the next few months. There is no problem. We're heading into the, we're heading into the double. You know, we're heading into the hundreds. And now the seer of seers prognosticator of prognosticators. The magic Bitcoin ball. Will the price be higher this time next week? Here we go. Let's see. Concentrate and ask again. Concentrate and ask again. No answer from the ball. No help. You'll just have to make your own decisions. Moving on to issue two. Morgan Stanley holds nearly 30 million dollars in Bitcoin funds. Just recently Morgan Stanley said that qualifying clients had the ability to buy Bitcoin. And they've been buying it like crazy. 322 clients participated in the funds buying 30 million dollars in Bitcoin teaching an old bank. New tricks. Ben Arck, your thoughts on Morgan Stanley and their customers who apparently want to buy Bitcoin. I could see your notes in the screen. Sure. It's good that you didn't write any food things about us. Yeah. No more can start it. What three weeks ago they said that people could start using gray scale. So buy Bitcoin or something. And now what was it? Is it 30 million or 300 million? I've lost 30 million. How much was it? 30 million. 30 million. 30 million. 30 million. Is that in gray scale? Or is that in Bitcoin is that just their clients have been buying Bitcoin? It's in Bitcoin. I don't know. Directly in Bitcoin. Okay. So I thought my relates to the gray scale thing. I think it's a nice thing to do. Yeah. I mean, I'm doing a little bit of work. I mean, it's a very big thing. I mean, I think I'm going to be able to do it. I mean, I really want to go up the desk. Morgan Stanley, this is for unique custom clients that have more than a million dollars or more than five million dollars and holding in the company. For that amount of money, they'll go out to coin desk or coinbase and make you an account. three, four, five percent or something like that. And then I'm sure that they've got some of the clients, you know, who you want more than that as a portfolio. But this is theory among a lot of Bitcoin is that these big financial funds just going to dub the market and dump Bitcoin, like, you know, pump the price and dump the Bitcoin. They're not, they've got to excuse their buying to their investors and trying a time of Bitcoin tough as it is, you know, proven to be very, very hard. So they're going to buy into all the, the rest of it we all buy into, you know, that this asset is going to continue to increase and substantially in value. As long as we have to hold it for a decent period of time, which is done, you know, historically, and is a good investment historically, if you do that, start trying to buck around buying dips and you're going to lose money. So it's good news that they're buying at Bitcoin and it's a bad building that Podla Bedrock, just the next level of Podla Bedrock. They'll keep it in their portfolio. That 5% will swing around and then in three or four years time, that will, that 5% will be, you know, the biggest earner which they've made in their portfolio and bring more people into the Bitcoin sphere. But no, it's big news that they're buying a Bitcoin. I don't think it's going to stop with the price going down either. If anything, maybe they'll be, I know we've broken through that 50-day moving after is thinking on a chart, it doesn't look so good for Bitcoin. These, these people, they're bright people that they'll be advising them to hold onto their Bitcoin and just enjoy the ride and just not put too much of their portfolio into it. Dan Eve. Well, I suppose it's good that they've got exposure. Again, I think if it is as crazy as they're opening a Coinbase account and they're like, they're multiplying the third party risk that they've got there, you know, by going, not just holding the Bitcoin, but they're using someone else to have an account to hold the Bitcoin with Coinbase. So it's a peculiar way of doing things. But as long as they have the Bitcoin, I'm sure that in no time, they will be dipping their toes in further, spinning up a Bitcoin node and going all out with LNBits as well, being fully self-sovereign, hopefully. But yeah, it does seem like it's kind of like the timing's pretty, pretty bad for all these new companies and stuff opening up to Bitcoin. You don't want them sort of buying the top and then panicking and then selling and then hating Bitcoin forever. So as long as they can hold them through and just realise that this is like the general market movement, hopefully things will be all good for these new Bitcoiners. Josh Shagala. What I find really sad is that these big institutions are jumping in right at the top and allowing and they have this huge rhetoric about, oh, be careful that you invest and everything needs to be regulated to hell and then and and and but we'll only offer it when the hype train is in full swing. Instead of you know allowing them to the clients to buy a bit earlier on, what I find absolutely sort of weird and it's kind of twisted is it's only $30 million. I mean, it's a lot of money for a single individual, of course, but for a bank like Morgan Stanley, they sort of have that as a little, that's like a sprinkle on top of a cake. It's just nothing and yeah, I don't know. I find these sort of news articles strange that they sort of glowed, that this sort of glowed, that there's 30 million bucks there. It doesn't something doesn't smell right and the whole that they're buying coin, they're like opening coin-based accounts for their client. I mean, I don't know, the coin-based account thing was a joke man, I'm really joking here. Oh okay, all right, okay. I think that being that if you're so rich, you had to wait for JP Morgan to offer it for you. You could have just walked up to Coinbase at any point in the past seven years and bought yourself some Bitcoin. But you did get this white glove service. I agree with a lot with what Josh is saying. I think that CNBC does the same thing where when the price of Bitcoin was up last time, they put a special box on the screen. Here's the price of Bitcoin and it stuck out from the other boxes like it didn't fit in a little system. And then when the price went down, the box went away and they stopped talking about it. Now that it's back, the box is back but they put it inside where the Dow is and the other market. So it's a bit more permanent like they're not going to stop talking about it this time. But again, the same thing. When they're not talking about that's when you should be buying. Now that JP Morgan's offering you the chance to buy internally, sadly, it looks like the cheaper getting fleeced. Stefan, can silly your thoughts about JP Morgan offering Bitcoin to their clients? Well, I think it's inevitable. It's part of the process of hyperbictuonization, right? More and more avenues for people to get exposure to it, consumers, rich individuals, institutional investors. And every time this happens, you get more attention and then more people want to do it. There's more pressure on these companies to offer it. I just hope that I don't think this retransformation is going to hurt. I think it's temporary and I don't think they're going to back off. Sort of like in the days of the Bitcoin as payment early days idea when all these merchants were trying to say they were accepting Bitcoin and payment, then that all kind of fell apart. I don't see this following the same path. Exit question. Will the other banks follow JP Morgan? Is there no way to stop this? They're all going to cascade in or is this an outlier? Then are Yeah, they have, you know, even if, I mean, rich people just like anyone else aren't, and they're talking about Bitcoin, but coins on topic at the moment in those conversations, they have it that family meal. And I think it's good that it's small amount, that it's not some crazy ridiculous amount because I do think that it's sort of sensible buying. It's a small part of their portfolio, but we just need more of that. We just need more of these rich people to have it as a small part of their portfolio. And then they're less likely to do that thing we just spoke about before, potentially dumping on the market because it doesn't really affect their net worth so much. And it's something which they're willing, a percentage in which they're willing to, you know, suffer the crazy price fluctuations because they know that historically it goes up to pretty significantly. Dan Eve. So, so I suppose if it does a big retrace, I reckon there'd probably be more likely for for other banks to get involved because they'll know that it's going to swing back up eventually, whereas if it just keeps on kind of climbing, I think that they might, other banks and institutions might be a bit reluctant just simply because of the fact that they'll, you know, they won't, they won't want to be, you know, that company that made their clients buy the top. But on the Morgan Stanley, so I think they said that there was 5% of their wealth was a maximum that they were allowed to invest. So if there's 30 million in there, then that gives about 600 million of wealth that's interested in buying Bitcoin. And obviously, you know, the glorious thing about Bitcoin is you don't need Morgan Stanley to get Bitcoin. In fact, it's just much better to have your own and hold your own. So this might be a time when people start circumventing that and thinking, right, well, I have 5% via Morgan Stanley, but I'll start, you know, stacking sats in the background because I'm waiting for this stock to flow 250k to come around the corner. So, yeah, I think more banking institutions will follow timing wise, not sure about now because of the fear of buying the top. Yeah, Shagala. The thing is that banks, retail banks, I'm not talking investment banks, Jeffie Morgan and Morgan Stanley and such, but retail banks will definitely start to allow as a product. The main thing that retail banks do nowadays because it's so hard to make money, it's kind of like phone companies were earning hand over fist with SMSes back in the day. I think it was like each gig that went through their network, they earned a million bucks back in the day, and now they earn like nothing, right, hardly anything, and off the phone calls are all free, everyone's using Skype and you know, and it's the same with banks. Retail banking, it's very difficult to make money in that because no one wants to spend money to send money. And so a lot of it is adding products, adding value. So if you log into your retail bank, it's usually, hey, do you want to buy insurance or do you want to learn or do you want this or do you want that? It's a they're like on selling, on selling different products. So of course, what they'll do is they'll jump on some startup that's offering their service to plug into banks, and they will offer to buy for their clients to buy Bitcoin through the interfaces of these banks. Of course, the sales cycles and banks, you know, are a long, they take a while to onboard and and stuff, although the API thing that the EU has that are forcing all banks to now have an API is making that a little bit more accelerated, but yeah, banks are notoriously slow. I mean, you go into some banks and they've still got green and black screens, you know, like that's how like long the sales cycles are, you know, I mean, it's insane. So yeah, I think the next banks will be all of these retail banks. They'll be the ones allowing their customers to buy Bitcoin, and you know, PayPal has really led that charge, not that they're a traditional bank, but they're definitely in that same game where they have to start adding more value to their core products because it's just not that profitable. Stefan Kincillo, will the other banks follow JP Morgan in? I think it's almost impossible to imagine they wouldn't, you know, if another bank doesn't, they're going to lose plus customers. They're going to switch to the ones that do, and even this 5% limit, I mean, look, what if Bitcoin goes up and now your 5% becomes 10%, they're not going to make you sell it. So they're going to have to tolerate that too. And you know, if you have a lot of money in there, you want to put more than 5%, you're going to just take some money out and put it in Coinbase or whatever you want to do. And then the banks are going to lose their management fees. So they're going to be under pressure to keep in spaning the limit and for everyone to offer this feature. Just like to thank everyone for watching and remind you to hit the thumbs up button down below. I remember it's free to hit the thumbs up button. We have about 33 people watching right now, probably about five or 10 of them have hit the thumbs up button. So there's still a chance. Let's hit thumbs up down below. Also, check out the World Crypto Network Audio Podcast. I've just gotten access to updated again. So I'll be updating that soon. We haven't had that many shows go on. So if you've been keeping up with the YouTube, you're pretty much up to date. But still a great chance to hit that thumbs up button and subscribe down below if you haven't already. Issue three back to JP Morgan again. JP Morgan sounds urgent alarm on Bitcoin price momentum after $300 billion Bitcoin and crypto sell-offs. My question to you, Dan Eve, do the banks have strong hands? Have we inherited some wonderful new partners? Or are they going to run for the hills? Well, I can't remember the exact status of JP Morgan in terms of whether they're offering it to clients. I know that when they did when Jamie Diamond was funding in like 2017-2018, there was like the day after that he did a fun article or fun campaign like JP Morgan Sweden bought 9,000 expt contracts or something crazy. But yeah, I don't know what their position is, but it seems a bit like a captain hindsight for me. They do seem to be very up down over there in terms of saying, you know, saying it's good, saying it's bad, it's pure heaven, it's the devil, etc. We're not quite pure heaven. But they do seem to be up and down. I think that, yeah, I don't know. I think obviously whenever Bitcoin moves massively, it in terms of 10 sort of 10 to 15 percentage, it starts to shape people a bit because we all know that Bitcoin can drop like 80% in a matter of weeks or whatever. So, oh, maybe a bit more of that. But yeah, it probably scares people a bit. I just think that there's too much liquidity in it. And the fact is that whenever it drops, it just makes you think even more, well, I'm going to buy the dip. And you know, this is such a big meme out of buying the dip. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's not going to go, I don't think it's going to go much though, hopefully, hopefully we don't see this like crazy 80% retrace. But they've got to kind of warn people just in place there. Their sort of richer clients have been dabbling in it, whether via the bank if they're offering it or not, you know, just to kind of be the voice of sensible, you know, sensible and reason. Like be careful, you know, blah, blah, blah. But no need to sound the alarm. Just hold on. Josh, Shagala are the investors with the pitch forks lining up outside of Elon Musk's door? Are they worried suddenly about the investment in Bitcoin that they've made? Yeah, this is, you know, this is this is a thing when when you get large companies having this on their balance sheets. You've got a lot of these CEO's, they spend a lot like a long time to get to that position. And so it's quite a scary move to put that onto the balance sheet. When it's when it's going down and down and down, that's when you should be putting this stuff on your balance sheet. But that's when everyone's, you know, CNBC is taking it off their television, that's when everyone's saying, oh, it's over. It's dead, you know, the blocks are full and blah, blah, blah. And it's just constant, constant fight about how the technology didn't work. It's a failed project, someone rage quit and whatever, you know, it just it's it's it's it's really, really, really scary. But then the other side is when it's going up, it's really easy to to be a good investor when it's going up in Bitcoin. It's like, oh, look at Clever, look at Clever, that CEO is he bought Bitcoin or she bought Bitcoin. And that's really it, you know, it's scary because when you buy the real top and then it drops, that's when we'll see how how diamond hands, Elon Musk's hands are, yeah, well, let's see, let's see. You know, the thing is this market, you know, I know Ben, you said earlier, there's a lot of liquidity, but I don't think there is like I find it very, very suspicious that we were watching this market getting weaker and weaker up towards the Coinbase IPO. Yet every dip it turned back around and tried to push further, push further and then on the day, the day after Coinbase's IPO, the thing finally goes, oh, yeah. And then heads down for the next like 10 days or whatever it is, like it's just been going down and down and down and down. I really knew that I have no proof of this and you know, this is not true. This is just my hunch. And I do somehow feel that maybe there was a little bit of market manipulation leading up to Coinbase's IPO, just saying probably not, but maybe. Either rumor, sell the news, Ben, arc your thoughts on Bitcoin price. No, I don't think it's that liquid. I think you've got a thin top layer of people buying and selling Bitcoin and the majority of it is either lost coins or pardola, bedrock, people who just have a bit of a hardware wallet and they're going to have them there for five years. So no, I don't think there's too much liquidity in the top, but all these investment firms, you know, like capital has to grow or else, hey, someone paid me some stats, nice. And they triggered a little animation. I can't scan the QR code, but I don't know, it's not big enough. But other people are. No, capital has to grow and like just like the humans, you know, we get interested in Bitcoin, maybe just because we're interested in the idea of like digitally native money, you know, something simple, some simple concept. Oh, look, I'm getting this thing under there. That's cool. Now, if you use Alan TX bottles use or an Alan bits wallet in fact, because it's using Alan your own pay, you can actually attach your comment and you'll have a comment come up here and you can say anything because it's not in our senses. So, oh, look, it's mine. A stretch mine. So now, yeah, now JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, all these investment firms, they need to have somewhere to put their capital to grow their capital. And yes, they can just buy Bitcoin and they can buy the underlying asset. But there's all these Bitcoin companies. There's always, there's this Bitcoin infrastructure and industry, which is now going to have a lot of investment pouring into it, because there's all these people who are now interested in Bitcoin and they want to invest in Bitcoin and help and that helps grow there. You know, they're measly 5% or something if they invest in a few Bitcoin companies here and there. So, and that strengthens the whole project as a whole, the whole Bitcoin project as a whole. So, there's an excuse to help grow their capital. I'm sure there'll be some investment in Bitcoin companies and that will intern grow the price of Bitcoin just that that seems to be what's happened in the past. Stefan, Consilla, our new friends with all the diamonds, do they also have diamond hands? I do think there's a bit of a fair weather, friend syndrome here. I think that, you know, sailors, shareholders, I'm not sure how he persuaded them the corporation to do that. I'm glad MicroShotty bought in 2020 so that it looks good now because it's still a good advertisement for Bitcoin. But yeah, I do think that, you know, even if they're up four billion and he were to go down to one billion, the shareholders wouldn't see that, oh, he's made us a billion. They'd say he lost three. But I don't think that the, I don't think the banks are going to stop offering the service if the price falls and I don't think most of the 30 million or so initial people that invested were going to back out. I think they're probably pretty strong hotlers, maybe not diamond, but maybe tungsten. The matter of metals now. It's the most scale of hardness. Well, let's see. We're going to move on to issue four. Issue four. UK court agrees to hear copyright lawsuit brought by self-proclaimed Bitcoin investor. Yes, Craig Wright is back again. This time suing bitcoin.org and pseudononymous operator cobra. Wright is suing cobra because he posted the Bitcoin white paper on bitcoin.org. It seemed absurd for a long time. Cobra getting the decoymes dismissed, calling them without merit in a blog. However, it seems that the United Kingdom court has a very lenient or small standard and is allowing this lawsuit to be brought to start on this one. We'll go to Stefan Kinsella from the open crypto alliance. You probably have the inside scoop on this and more information than any of us. So go ahead, Stefan. Yeah, and our focus is on patent filings, which are threatening to Bitcoin. Somebody inchain and somebody others. Of course, I've been long critic of all types of intellectual property. I'm a patent attorney, by the way. Trademark patent and copyright. And all three, interestingly, are being threatened by various actors in the crypto space, saying that using the word the name Bitcoin is a trademark infringement, saying that having a copy of the white paper is some kind of copyright infringement and then a patent problem too. And in fact, the one danger of the copyright claim is that you know, you could say that everyone operating a node or miners are infringing copyright every time, every 10 minutes because there's a copy made of the white paper because it's embedded into the blockchain. So in theory, you know, the desire would be to get a court order, just not just to shut down someone from hosting the white paper, but to shut you should get a court order making anyone hosting a node to shut down because that's infringement. So it's a way to try to control the real block, the real Bitcoin chain and to try to, you know, get another chain to be more dominant. I think the claim is totally, just right. Does right want to, like you said, that it would force the miners to shut down, could shut the source of the nodes to shut down, does right really want to shut down the entire Bitcoin network with that benefit him if that was the outcome? Well, I don't know. I think it strategies all over the map, but it could be that, you know, he thinks that maybe that would give BSV a boost to become the main one or something like that. The copyright claim is ridiculous. The fact that the UK court is going to hear it is just standard procedure. He'll be heard. I think it's almost certain he'll lose because he'd have to prove he's the owner and given his reputation and the fact that he hasn't proved that he is Satoshi, which most people say he obviously could if he is, would make it appear that he hasn't satisfied it's burden of proof. But he's going to, I think what he's trying to do is just bolster his claims that he is Satoshi. I think that's his main goal in these lawsuits is to try to get some official recognition from some court that he is Satoshi, which is why they trumpeted early on. They said the US copyright office registered their copyright filing proving that he's Satoshi, but that's of course not the case because the copyright office doesn't examine claims of authorship. They just make you swear that you are the author and under under penalty of a fine, which he did, and they just said, okay, and then they kind of they sent it back. They said, are you sure? He said, yes, so he just said, I'm sure. And then they issued a press release saying clarification just because they're saying that our registering of his application means he's the copyright owner is not actually the case. So it has zero evidentiary weight that he was able to register the copyright. I mean, you any one of us can do it right now as well if you're willing to commit perjury. And not that the audience has, but I think many in the audience who are also Satoshi Nakamoto, may have filed those forms. And if you were Satoshi, it would not be perjury. So, correct. Just look up on that. Ben, your thoughts on the court case being brought by Dr. Wright? I went to a BSV. I strongly urge if there's ever a BSV or a B cash me up in your local area, as a Bitcoiner, just go in a Bitcoin T-shirt and your paraphernaly and just sit there because it rains them in just your presence rains them in. So it's this BSV talk and it was called Painting Blockchain. And it was by his painted lawyers who were there. And they were doing this talk on how you can paint in the blockchain. And I loads of people in sticks. It's very funny actually because I was with one of the guys from the Cardiff Bitcoin me up, which is a good big Bitcoin me up, which I think we're either BSV guys are sort of targeting it. There's someone to spread the horrible propaganda. And at one point he stood up when he went, come to our Bitcoin me up, there's 30 people there, none of them are paid. You see all you lot, you're all being paid. It's quite a sort of embarrassing moment. I was like, of course, but I was speaking to his painting lawyer afterwards. And at one point we were talking about Satoshi and she said, oh, you know, she, whoever it may be, we don't know who it is, do we? And I was like, and I think reading between the lines, these people are making bank from this guy. So they're like, yeah, okay, crazy rich billionaire, give us some money. And you know, we'll go to some court and then, you know, try and convince people that Craig writes Satoshi. There are some sort of proper message nicely played. That was usually LNT X-Port, it's a bit naughty. There's a problem with you can't not message us, you can't censor. LNT transaction bought messages do not reflect the opinions of the world. Yeah, yeah, well, they reflect the opinion of me to be fair. I have a good cause of over that one. But yeah, so, so everyone's just making money around him. It will go to court and actually UK courts, something we do quite well in this country is bureaucracy and UK courts are quite sensible places. They're not perfect of all courts are imperfect. But they are quite sensible places where he'll just be tossed out as just a fraudster and a clown. And you know, the judge won't hold back on putting him in his place. I'm sure I look forward to that, even though we won't be able to see it. But yeah, I look forward to hearing about that happening, which will happen. Yeah, can I add something? I was just going to say, I think it's actually a good thing because I think we'll probably get a definitive, finally, a single definitive ruling that one of his IP claims connected to his claim to be Satoshi has been struck down by a court. So and copyright claim, copyright suits are not nearly as expensive to defend as a patent suit. So I think that this probably will end up being a good thing for Bitcoin. I mean, he has to continue with the lie because he has so many people who have invested in him like Calvin Er, people like this. He has like these other gazillionaires who are involved in this fraud who do think that he is Satoshi has to continue with this lie and continue, you know, making these claims, but he just continues to unravel himself. I mean, he chose, he keeps choosing the UK chose the UK to come out and he did that that BBC thing where he proved with that weird convoluted cryptographic signature that he was Satoshi by signing something with some key and then published the proof from what the Bitcoin coin was just amazing, but then like I think it was about 40 minutes, it was completely disproved and pulled the part and read it by actual, you know, geniuses, actual Bitcoin geniuses which we're lucky to have. So he has to continue this this charade, this lie and it's just watching a train wreck in slow motion which is, you know, it's going to happen. Let's go to Dan Eve, your thoughts on the court case and Dr. Wright. I think it's just incredible that he's still going and surely there's like a point where a court says like, I mean, they have to, they mostly have to hear stuff, right? There's even a case in the UK where like I was reading a glass of Eugen lady was trying to sue the landlord of the place she worked at because a seagull attacked her and also shouts on her. So they'll hear anything, you know, and give it a go. But it's whether they throw it out eventually anyway. And you know, he's been kind of proven wrong and he's, what did the case in the US that he had some sort of liable case or something and they said that he forged documents. Even the, and back, as Ben was saying, the BBC article when, but BBC interview where he apparently signed a transaction, but actually what happened, I think in the debunking, he set a variable or a signature as a variable when it shouldn't have been or something like that. And so, so, you know, tiny little difference, but he was able to sign it and, and, you know, and it was disproven, of course. I mean, even wired their article back in 2015. So the title was originally is Bitcoin's creator, this unknown Australian genius. And then the subheading was documents leaked to wire suggested that Bitcoin's creator was create right. And then they later added in 2019, basically, there's loads of inconsistencies and he's been, there's evidence that it appears to be fortunate. So they added onto their title is Bitcoin's creator, this unknown Australian genius, probably not updated. And, and they also admitted that it was probably a hoax as well. So I don't know, there's got to be a time when, when people just stop listening to him, but there's, unfortunately, a lot of people with a lot of money involved and there's kind of a cognitive distance going on where they're like, I can't, I can't admit because I've gone all in on BSV, because I was sold a bag of like, dud beans. And I can say personally that I was at that table, I've mentioned this before with with trade right opposite me, Bitcoin Power Mill, infamous mill now, I think, where Craig Wright said that Satoshi was probably dead anyway. So I don't believe any of it. And there's no evidence that seems to show that he is, it's just, everything just doesn't, you know, doesn't add up. And it just seems like a continuous, you know, run of, of, of, of, well, being rejected in court. So hopefully it continues that way. I think he would use the, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Darth Vader line that when, when, when, in the first Star Wars, Obi-Wan said, your father is dead, and Darth Vader was still alive and they met, well, he really changed. So he would have some kind of Darth Vader line, I bet. Definitely, definitely. But hopefully this will be the last we hear of him from this court. There's always a way to weasel out of things that you've said, but certainly, wired magazine did us no favors with the certitude of that headline, nor did Newsweek, when they declared Dorian Satoshi as Satoshi, just a hint for the future in the media. If you think you have the new Satoshi, you don't have it and your headline is wrong. I'm just telling you in advance, saving you the trouble. Josh Shagalla, your thoughts on the lawsuit from self-proclaimed Bitcoin inventor? No, one thing I wanted to ask, Stefan, is, can someone sue him for these false, for these claims that, and to prove in front of a court of law, especially the fact that he's going around aggressively, or his, his team is aggressively suing people like Cobra, who are very well respected in this space for a very long time. That I think is a really interesting thing, and I'm sure everyone would pull money in to do that. I'm not aware of any generalized toward or claim where you can just sue someone for like running around the world, abusing all the legal systems. That's part of the problem with the system we have is you can just sue someone meritlessly and impose lots of costs on them just to defend it. Some systems have some right in some cases to get your attorney's fees if the claim turned out to be extremely frivolous, which some of these might be proven to be. In fact, I think one of his cases already had that. There's some ruling in Norway or some country against him, which he won't pay or something like that. I've heard about that. So the best thing is to hope to get it dismissed with prejudice and with some kind of a sanction against him. The closest analogy I can think of is you know the happy birthday song we were all familiar with for decades was you'll notice you go to some restaurants or in some TV shows, they have an alternate version of happy birthday because some company went around claiming copyright and if for decades and they would collect royalties when people wanted to pay and then they would sue people for not using it and some people would use the fake song instead to avoid. And then finally a few years ago it was overturned in court but of course you know tens of millions of dollars that had been collected at that point. Now I think they had to pay it back but it's probably long gone by then. So if he had collected some royalties for the white paper and then he lost maybe they could be discouraged but I don't think we're going to reach that point. So but if he goes around suing people like cobra wouldn't it be a normal part of the course to say well you have to prove that you are Satoshi to bring this. I mean can I just say I believe that I'm going to sue everyone. You have to yeah I think the burden of proof is on him to prove to prove infringement you have to prove you're the plaintiff with the ownership so to prove that you have to prove you're the author. So the burden of proof would be on him. It's probably a proponderance of the evidence. I think that's why he filed in the US because if you file a registration for a work that's published within a certain amount of time I think within five years then and no one challenges it or something like that then there's a presumption that you are the author but he filed it after that period. So there is literally no presumption whatsoever. So he would just have to prove it somehow and I think the only evidence at this point would be his testimony. And testimony can be evidence but so he would just say I hear by promise you that I'm the author. Now the question is would they be credible given his reputation at this point and given the fact that I'm sure the defense would point out to the judge that we get them a little education about Bitcoin they would say listen if he really is Satoshi he presumably has control over a certain number of coins and he could he could easily prove that here in court you know he could prove it by signing a signature or something like that. And if he refuses to do that I think the judge will say well then you know you have an easy way to prove it you're not doing it you're the one bringing the suit and you're not meeting your burden of proof. So I think he's just going to fail to meet his burden of proof. What about the licensing so like Bitcoin obviously is you know under copy left as MIT isn't it? Well that's another yeah that's another defense to the so that there's at least two defenses one defense would be that he's not the author so he doesn't have a copyright claim at all. The other defense would be even if he is the author it was released under this MIT license so it's so anyone using it is using it with permission that has already been granted and can't be taken back so they're not infringing because they have license so that's another defense that can use. Because it's an attack on the integrity of the MIT license isn't that which is correct. Very friendly. Very well. Is Josh did you have more on that? Oh no I mean I just um definitely very interested in this one I agree that there is a cognitive dissonance happening where people are too heavily invested either against this gentleman or for him and it's just like it just sign the keys dude if you're going to say if the toys just sign it and get it over and done with but he doesn't he doesn't. Well and just to follow up with Stephen has there ever been a case like this before where a large technology like this exists but is not signed for by a major company it's not like Pepsi can come in and say that guy there made the formula for Pepsi he works for us there's no situation like this before can you think of anything similar? Well I think that if he had worked for a corporation and he has signed his copyright to the corporation then they would be the right plaintiff to bring the suit and it would be a little messier I don't know if that's the case I don't think there was any corporation when the white paper was originally published the closest analogy would be probably to the case of patents where a group of companies collaborate to develop a standard that they want to be universally adopted and then one of those companies behind the scenes is secretly patenting aspects of the the standard the parts that they contribute and then after everyone adopts a standard then they start suing everyone for using it and then in that case you have any trust concerns and things like that and it just looks icky so in those cases courts can tend to be reluctant to let you enforce your patent if you sort of let it be adopted as the standard right that everyone you meant for everyone to use it in sort of an open way so I think you could argue that in this case number one whoever created Bitcoin started the blockchain and and maybe they even put it in the in the they put the paper in the blockchain right so by doing that they obviously wanted people to use the the blockchain as an open standard and I think you could so we would call that in a stop all argument he so he would be a stopped from complaining for example that people are using the blockchain and therefore violating his copyright because he encouraged them to do that or he he made it possible by setting up the blockchain and maybe even putting the white paper in there himself it seems an interesting analogy between this and taproot where I know they wanted to use that algorithm earlier on but it was a copyright algorithm you had to pay for so it included it wasn't the standard I can explain the taproot thing my understanding is there was a patent on it and it had expired shortly before just a couple years before 2008 but because it had just expired there had been no developed libraries and APIs and all that. It's all about sure. Yeah sorry sorry. That is snore I'm talking about sorry. Yeah which is which is I mean I use it all off down with the monetary issue whereas Bitcoin allows it to roll out so it becomes the standard whereas if snore hadn't been locked down maybe they would have rolled out and become the standard so it's interesting different licensing schemes and then what happens in the real world? Yeah it's just just being adopted now and it's just an example of how patents and IP distort and impede the development of innovation especially new innovative technologies so it's a sad thing that Bitcoin couldn't have had this earlier which they would have been able to if not for patents. Yeah I should also just don't have used them a few times recently in the past year and they're great I can see why we're calling it a lot better if we just started from the beginning. What about the MIT license? Have many as anyone ever challenged something which has been released under MIT and then turned into a private, privately copyrighted thing? I believe that in a few cases there have been challenges to the legal effectiveness of things like the Creative Commons license and the MIT and the GNU these types of licenses because there are some legal problems you could find with them for example normally a license would be a negotiation between two identified parties they would have an agreement either written or oral but you could point back to that actual agreement and so there'd be also consideration right a contract to be legitimate in common law countries you need consideration whereas if I just publish a work and I say on there this is licensed under Creative Commons or MIT you could say well the person using it how do we have a record that they got the license because I could change it later and maybe they don't have proof that I was published under a license and what consideration did they pay but I believe in the few cases that I'm aware of the courts have basically said no these are enforceable if if anything under the Estoppal theory like look you put it out there you you intended for people to rely upon this and use that they did so you'd be a stopped or prevented from making a copyright infringement claim which would be a tantamount to a license so I do think that the MIT license would probably legally enforceable and because of that copyright infringement suit would fail because the person being sued would have a defense be interesting to like have some sort of NFT that would carry that license so you can prove that you that it hasn't been changed or that you got it at the certain time at the time stamp on a blockchain and then you you know you haven't it hasn't changed because he is the NFT for correct or on a blockchain or now the internet archive could work as well but that's spotty in coverage the problem the problem is all these solutions are too complicated to work in reality because copyright is automatic you don't have to do anything so everyone has a copyright in anything that they as soon as you write it down even if it's not published and people are just too lazy to take those steps to do that they're just going to publish things online and at best you could hope that they will slap a ccby or or some kind of license on it because it takes two seconds to just write that but I think that's all you can expect most people to go through the trouble of doing if you require them to actually go through the extra step of embedding it in an NFT that's going to be like 0.1% of the cases so most cases would not be verified that way. Josh, please original post on Bitcoin open source implementation of P2P currency. I've developed a new open source P2P eCash system called Bitcoin that's the first sentence of the first post you ever heard so so it'd be quite hard to prove that it was copyrighted when he's already like within the first sentence and the title of his first post he's saying it's open source by some way. What is the white paper in specificly? There's also a second related doctrine to a stop called latches which is like another equitable doctrine which means that if you wait too long to bring a suit then you're also barred under equity because you like and if you wait 12 years and you let this whole industry grow up this is related to the to the standards patent standards argument but if you if you let the whole Bitcoin ecosystem grow up and you lurk like a submarine for everyone to adopt it and then you spring upon them and sue them that would look bad as well and I think latches will be yet another defense that could be used saying that you're barred by a stop all you're barbed by latches you're barred by the fact that you granted an MIT license and you're barred by the fact that you can't prove that you're Satoshi. So there's all these fortifices. He's just screwed isn't he's never going to get it through he's never going to prove that he's Satoshi he's never going to get people to take these white papers down all it can do is just go around trying to bully people with lawsuits. Perfect. Perfect setup for the exit question. Forced prediction yes or no will Craig Wright be successful will he force Cobra to take down the white paper Dan Eve? I think did I read that he did actually take it down briefly could at least we might be put back up but I didn't get sued but yeah long term. Well I think I hopefully not then because I think that there's other I read that scared Square Crypto also Square also like I put up the white paper in protest so I think he's gonna have a lot of lawsuits on his hand and hopefully this one just gets slapped out but just very quickly before I just saw it and my favorite quote of all time from from grade right um uh get 20 19 oh my that's my dog lick in the bowl I shouldn't have him fed it just yet um favorite quote is he says uh he says there's this this whole whole I'll feed you soon there's this whole section I remember some white paper um back in 2008 it had this section on how identity worked in bitcoin sh I remember reading it probably when I wrote it that means you didn't write it sorry that's it thank you great Dan says hopefully not not a lot of faith in the uh UK legal system Josh Shagalli yes or no will he be successful uh no I don't believe you well then arc yeah there's Craig Wright group is a well worth looking up it's hilarious for that particular quote in that speech it's like yeah I read it in 2000 probably because I wrote it I wrote it in 2000 it's ridiculous um no it's not gonna yes it's just uh it's just kind of sad to watch almost but I'm also not too worried about co-opers like he's got bank you know like it's the touch he wants to focus in throwing loss so he saw lawsuits run okay like his identity may be um uh maybe it at risk which would really suck because he's managed to keep it private for such a long time um but co-opers been in bitcoin for a long time and he's got some very rich friends so if it does have it gets the point where he has to tool up lawyer-wise um because I imagine that this case by the sounds of it with all the holes in it if it gets into a court you don't need an expensive lawyer to prove this loan of bollocks um uh you know the judge will be able to see that on their own so um yeah so but if he does need to tool up then co-oper can tool up he doesn't need to worry about that and like uh I think Josh said he could we could easily put a fund together to help the legal battle or whatever so yeah no it's just uh it's just just just train wrecking slow motion seven can sell a yes or no does right succeed uh no I think he doesn't um and there was I don't know if he saw there's an interesting little uh video someone came out with a few weeks ago sort of little defiant stunt where they had a couple of hundred bitcoin personalities each read a snippet of the white paper so that the whole white paper is in one video on youtube but every person is only saying a very tiny fragment I guess the idea is each one is using it a bit in fair it's called fair use right so each one is not individually liable because if you can read a sentence that's not that's fair use so uh there's lots of uh lots of things that they can't shut down even if they could shut this down but no I think they're he's gonna lose that's probably the same reason they made though we are the world video uh just to establish fair use moving on to issue five jack dorsi and elan musk agree on bitcoins green cadential credentials we talk about it a lot because it's the most popular bitcoin fund of 2021 yes bitcoin uses as much power as a small country it's so easy to calculate you just take the number of power used by a minor and multiply times another number and that's how you get the answer bitcoin uses too much power but now jack dorsi and elan musk are arguing back even saying that bitcoin is actually good for the environment josh gola is bitcoin good for the environment of course it is the humans need to use power they need to they need to use as much power as possible because the more power that we use the the better society becomes and the the thing is that we need to find better power sources and this is exactly what bitcoin is doing it's heading towards better power sources we live on the most amazing planet where there's constant power in the ionosphere like more than we can ever use there is more than we can ever use just a column or a two underneath us um maybe a little bit more but it it's really the search for renewables really isn't that far away from us what's been stopping humanity for a long time is is is structures like the coal industries or the oil industries that manage to corner markets and protect markets through even through using the force of the state to to protect a certain uh certain uh certain industry and certain regions um and and and bitcoin turns the table to say hey there's a game theoretical advantage to finding the cheapest most abundant energy possible and uh and go for it so really this is what bitcoin does it heads humanity towards the cheapest um source of energy possible and uh and the cheapest source of energy is of course the stuff that is just coming out of the earth or in the ionosphere or the waves or the you know there's uh there's abundant energy is we just need clean clean versions Stefan Kinsella your thoughts on bitcoin and energy usage well first of all uh i mean you could argue that uh the the current fiat system say the dollar pollutes way more because it's backed by the US military which is the biggest polluter and gold gold mining of course is horrendous for the environment so compared to them it's it's nothing but you could make a contrarian argument you know that uh more CO2 is good as plant food right so unfortunately bitcoin's gonna go green and use renewable sources instead of a putting more CO2 to the air so unfortunately it's not gonna give us a lot of plant food but i'm just kind of joking a little but uh no i think it's going to uh it's going to spread energy around the world is going to make the i'm here in Houston, Texas we were frozen in January because the windmill is shut down uh you know if you build five times as many windmills as you as you need you can't justify that right now because they're idle but if you put bitcoin mining forms near them you can soak up that power and when there's an emergency they can just go offline and give it to the to the humans to heat their homes so i think it's going to revolutionize uh energy uh stability around the world and and uh produce new energy centers where there's no populations and then populations will move there so it's going to colonize the world with power and energy which is a good thing. But calculating the value of the fiat systems hard i have to have more than two variables you know armored trucks, ATMs, cost of office spaces all of that that's too hard to do the bitcoin things really nice and easy i just slammed the two numbers together and multiplied it's a big wind for everyone. Ben Arck, more of this fun in the future? PetroDala like PetroDala you know linked to the board price of petrol. That's what we're trying to do on the institutional markets. Bitcoin is incredibly efficient if we use it better and if we use the transaction from far more things than just me sending value to somebody else which is possible as we were talking about we mentioned taproot a little bit earlier on there's so much information you can pack into a bitcoin transaction and there's so much economic movement you can pack into a bitcoin transaction. So i think we need to the first thing we can do if we're concerned about the i'm concerned personally if i do a bit on chain bitcoin transaction i get it's like taking a flight or something i get a little bit of carbon guilt you know some a bit of a snowflakey lefty type so i care about these things and i do get a little bit of carbon guilt that's more in the in spirit. It's with us and yeah they are they are heavy carbon but i mean for good reason because you know you're sending a transaction without a trusted third party and this is this is the cost of we just need to make it more we need to make it more theatrical transaction itself more efficient and then as well as that encourage green mining and and encourage this debate because actually i know we all think it's fard and we don't like talking about it but look you've got Elon Musk and Jack Dorsey discussing how bitcoin can actually have a beneficial impact on people seeking out renewables and baking businesses where they can sustain you know renewables being developed by in downtime when there's no demand for the electricity by locking it up by mining bitcoin and then how bitcoin you know goes to the place where the energy is cheapest and all that sort of stuff all that you know that good propaganda which we put out there but i think just making a bit criminal you know baking transactions more efficient is it is a good step and then also like i want more offsetting and a bidet like the idea of offsetting but i want more offsetting options so to heal my carbon guilt and for anyone else he's worried about bitcoin it doesn't cost much i send a bitcoin transaction and then for an extra five ten percent i can then pay the carbon of the carbon footprint of that transaction for like three four years or something so we need more more solutions there's loads of carbon offsetting charities out there where they have APIs and you can like figure out how much your flight is going to cost you in carbon and you can offset that and there's there's no reason why they couldn't put bitcoin into their APIs it'd be great i'd use it so i want to see more solutions like that coming out for you know for people at me who are bits no flaky and then if people are concerned you say well it's a current using bitcoin just if you're concerned about it just offsetting carbon footprint everybody's always down on bitcoin fees but i always think it's worth it even if i have to pay a five or ten bucks to use the network i'm always like i'm using bitcoin i'm happy i'm using another currency it's it's worth five or ten bucks to me and i guess you have to send around a couple thousand or something to make that worth it but uh still worth it cool like neat to do even if i'm sending it to a buddy it's like it's worth doing it because i want the chance of him holding the bitcoin i want to increase that odds by sending all that all that hash rate forever all those access to hash is a securing that transaction your transaction specifically your transaction making more more secure just as time wise on it's they just need to put an animation on it people can't see the animation so they don't know what's happening so that's clear is computer animation Dan Eve your thoughts on a bitcoin and being green well i think that one of the key things in that article is that a lot of that they've resisted to hear about bitcoin is it obviously that it's it's completely ungrinched using fossil fuels and blah blah blah and that you know people won't move to it because then you know move to green because they're not incentivized but they are incentivized to move to you know to be green and bitcoin because it's where the cheaper electricity comes from for the excess for the excess we've discussed before um but i don't know i think the only thing that's unsustainable in bitcoin is is is people saying that it's dead i mean there's there's uh that surely they're going to run out of gas soon they can't sustain saying it's dead because it hasn't died yet it's been 11 years and and counting um yeah i think i don't know there there was in that article i said there was a cynical attempt to greenwash just cynical attempt to greenwash bitcoin but you know surely they should be at least celebrating slightly that the some you know big names like musk and and jack are pushing for a new greener bitcoin you know that it does show that there's kind of a positive movement um behind at least kind of letting the world know that it does use less um less fossil fuels than than everyone's saying but all it takes is a bit of a bit of research and and a bit of a bit of a skeptical mind to filter out and I know that obviously bitcoin is going to bitcoin related to articles from you know from our our side at the bitcoin side we'll probably have a bit of bias and the other side has as anti bias you know they they don't like the idea of a green bitcoin or think that it's just crap but they've probably just missed the boat you've always got to remember that anyone this this crapping on bitcoin they can't you know they may be an expert but they also because they're being negative about bitcoin it's likely they miss the boat so just whenever you see an expert said something never get negative about bitcoin just replace that with someone who missed the boat said something about bitcoin then you're like what loser uh been not a loser in a in a in a in a in a bad way as in they lost out as in they lost out not on an actual loser yeah so I think it's good that they're promoting a green a bitcoin I don't know if you can there's anything that's wrong with it won't be paying for my my carbon credits for my bitcoin usage but um you know use things like lightning which do you have a lower lower footprint and there's still a chance for you to catch the boat by giving us a thumbs up to this episode when we are around 30 viewers we said give us a thumbs up now we're at 50 viewers uh thanks to your help uh moving on to the exit question mr. wonderful star of the shark tank program has famously said that he will only buy bitcoin minted with green energy and he will only buy bitcoin not minted in china how long before other companies follow suit and which one will be first who will offer customers green bitcoin first let's go to Josh Shagalla what a ridiculous statement I mean uh go on tell me tell me which bitcoin is green mind with green tell me which bitcoin is what what what are you talking about uh like actually you know even even with your home energy when you pay you've got solar panels on your roof generally that's going back into the grid and you're just buying power that's also made from coal it's just you're adding to the network so you sometimes you know get cheaper power whatever that is the same with bitcoin some of it's made green some it'll be all mix um all it needs to do is go through a couple of transactions and it's already mixed with other ones what it was mr. wonderful really gonna um I bet I bet in fact if mr. wonderful has some bitcoin I guarantee you that they would have been through silk road um the original silk road it would have gone through that pretty much guaranteed um or some sort of dark market um and and and that's that's just a fact um it is possible that he's buying virgin full blocks direct from the miners yeah right yeah as far as the other point Josh isn't going to like it but a company like coinbase might come along pay the carbon offsets for your bitcoin transaction and then claim it's green offering a potential advantage for an otherwise fungible bitcoin Ben Ark do you think it'll be happen who will be first sorry um i'm off topic but amazingly we have made 10 000 satoshis from my goofy little animation thing which actually is a decent amount of money so as i said earlier on i know i'm gonna visit $5 man it's like $5 that's like $5 that's $5 so here's a here's a giveaway here it's got five two thousand satoshi pulls on this island and you're else to get those landing while it's out and they're sucked those sat um and that's my answer to the question wow so you can what so people can just take those stats back because they focus at home scan that QR code right now and make sure you hit the subscribe button uh for next week's show if you want to get these stats you've got to be watching this show live and this is this is circular economy right here like people paid doing little animation things and then right craig right is a thing up there which is far worth it and then and now that money is that money which is going back out through the screen that's crazy it's literally circular around your head one is on the left side one's on the right side amazing all right let's go to the stefan concealer uh who will be first who will offer green bitcoin uh i don't i don't know i don't think it matters i think this is uh it'll be a temporary thing like NFTs just uh flash in the pan for bitcoin to work i believe it has to be fungible or fungible enough so if you start having tainted coins then it's going to be ruined as a store of value or reserve currency um but i think it won't happen because if someone is stupid enough to uh to restrict their they're buying to a limited pool of big coins they're going to have to pay more and other people with no screw pools will arbitrage it away uh sort of like the libertarian free market argument that that irrational racism and sexism on the free market uh has a cost and can't work because employers that you know only higher white males are going to be harmed by restricting themselves to that pool and they'll be out competed by others and i think something similar would happen in the bitcoin world too i think this is uh it's nonsense i know lots of people that would that would laugh at that and they would they would buy the big coins that are tainted uh that are being sold on the cheap relatively speaking it does seem very likely that mr. wonderful is paying a premium for his green bit coins so that might affect his investment horizons as well dan eave did we talk to you about this one about who's going to sell you a green bitcoin first would it be coin base in san francisco famously liberal city dan eave i wonder if it would be funny if it's some like sad and like green piece like they're getting in the gate gretta that's it right is going to open up a no tc counter and should be selling you green bitcoin for a premium that's what i'm going with and she could save the environment she could use the uh the money to fund her operations sounds like a good mix uh all right i think we're headed towards the end of the show here uh so we'll just go ahead with predictions or a story of the week jash segala are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week um yeah uh well we're hot on the heels uh developing our project our secret squirrel project that uh can't really talk about too much but it's going to be amazing uh unfortunately for us big coiners over here will be on a theorem but that is because smart contracts aren't available really uh the opportune codes aren't enough currently on bitcoin but um it's an amazing project uh there will be some air dropage on botoro so uh make sure you join up on botoro to grab some of that uh once this project is ready and to get all the latest news as it's happening it's it's really exciting project for all the the gold bugs as well as uh the bitcoin bugs as well as people that like uh crypto and all things new dan e prediction or story of the week go ahead i'm going to go for something a bit more realistic as in my prediction this week and i think that after uh uh uh musk and uh and jack have been chatting in their little pump group i think they're gonna build a dicensphere that's it they're gonna announce plans soon to build a dicensphere and that will cover the green element as well so it's so green up there around the sun and uh and that's it all the mining can be done by the electricity gathered from the dicensphere and we can finally start stop losing energy we can create a true closed loop system uh for the world then arc planning to live in that new dicensphere prediction or story of the week go ahead then you know musk needs to stop uh if i can let's send all those rockets up into space because that's got heavy carbon footprint so you need to offset it with an api so just as you can like figure out how much carbon you're using flying to you know mayorka you could figure out how much carbon you're using sending a rocket up to the moon and then offset it it's my sense all i got say to it Elon and finally stefan can sell a prediction or a story of the week go ahead yeah what's what's that expression oh they can't if you can't hear someone scream in outer space maybe you can't hear you can't see pollution in outer space if we build the sphere so who cares right um all right couple of predictions uh not really a week maybe a little bit longer horizon but i can't wait for vj poe of patty's bullish case for bitcoin book to come out uh pretty soon i believe and uh the open crypto alliance which i'm in open crypto x on twitter you can find it uh or open yeah or the website opencryptoaliance.org um we're very soon going to be uh putting up some some patents that we've selected for requesting the community to help us crowdsource and find prior art which we can use to challenge some of these uh these ridiculous patents to uh to get some victories knocking them down so that um uh the the reputation of the claims will be tarnished and uh remove some of the power to use these patents uh in an aggressive and harmful way against innocent bitcoin companies and individuals well done this is such a such an amazing project i've uh i just i take my hat off too as you can see everyone i'm not wearing a hat this week and that's because i take it off to uh stefan's group and team small team uh doing amazing amazing work and very very much worthwhile in fact uh yeah i love bin ox qr codes here i think we should definitely be using those more and more to help uh uh raise funds for all the uh all the great work you're doing very cool and also shocking to see josh's uncovered head uh just one more time stefan what's the web page for the open crypto alliance opencryptoaliance.org and you can find us on twitter at opencrypto x very cool excellent organization and uh my story of the week uh just uh i've been having fun trying out the tops nft cards on wax i don't think that i'm making any money i couldn't get in the early sale i got into the later sales i bought a bunch of oakland a players and a couple of san francisco giants and i'm having a good time with collectibles so if you guys are in nfts uh check it out we're going to be having some more nft content here on the world crypto network uh it looks like i haven't been doing anything some not doing daily shows uh but i have been doing interviews even sometimes two or three a day and i'm going to edit those down and eventually launch those as a series of interviews with nft creators we've also been doing interviews with uh people that go to bitcoin conventions and we're focusing on focusing on some documentary content of a bitcoin convention so look for that in the future obviously this kind of thing takes a lot longer requires editing uh hopefully looks nicer when it comes out but uh it's not as fun as doing daily shows you get that oh yeah and the wcn clips as well yeah and we'll wcn clips check out wcn clips on youtube uh subscribe to it you'll even start to see them pop up in your inbox they're quite enticing uh they have cool headlines like uh you know bitcoin or nfts are going out of business click here and uh bitcoin is the best thing ever click here so uh it's really like oh my god bitcoins going to 10,000 million dollars and these are great to share with your friends and people that are in a bitcoin maybe they don't have time to watch the whole show but they'd be happy with just a short show and for me this is really how i got into joe rogan uh the j re clips channel always had an enticing clip a great headline and uh it would draw me in and i'd end up watching the whole interview so uh we kind of hope to recreate some of that magic here and with your help sharing those clips we can make that possible so uh thanks so much to everybody for joining us thanks for all our guests uh thanks everybody pushing that thumbs up out there in the audience and be sure to subscribe down below we're out of time uh but until next time bye bye