The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Wassup, Wassup, Wassup! Theo Goodman from Proof of Work Media. Good evening, everyone. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Bitcoin will always win. Founder of McAfee Antivirus, John McAfee is back in the news again this week, with a series of tweets responding to a report released by Jay Clayton, chairman of the SEC. Clayton characterized Bitcoin as, manipulated, and volatile, saying that those were the reasons the SEC were dragging their feet on the Bitcoin ETF. McAfee responded, calling the SEC a corrupt, pus-filled, bile-dripping abscess. He also said that, you say the world's powers will stop Bitcoin? Impossible. New technologies always win. All the laughter in the world, plus a huge war with the most powerful industry in the world at the time, the railroads, did not stop the Model T from ushering in the age of automobiles. People complaining about Bitcoin price manipulation by powerful players? Forget it. There's not enough power on Earth that can stop Bitcoin in the long run. Relax and be patient. John Eve is Mr. McAfee right. Well, I think he's certainly right about something, and that's the BTC is an unstoppable freight trade. Now, they say that you can cut the head off a snake, but you can't cut the head off a fucking ninja snake. You just decentralised and multi-headed. So yeah, I think I'd like to see Bitcoin hitting 500K, but whether it does or not, I don't know, is another story. But in terms of the markets, existing markets are corrupt to see in any way. You've got the fact that there's almost status quo for manipulation. We've even seen that recently with the LIBOR rigging, for example. There's a few other ones with Westpac Australia for rigging. And it's JPMC, we also find as well a 1802.5 for setting a rate-breaking lawsuit. So it does seem to be pretty ubiquitous in the existing financial world. So I can understand why they want to keep the game clean and it's good. You know, it's good. We'd like to see Bitcoin market manipulation reduced, but at the same time, it's pretty much the same as what goes on elsewhere. Theo Goodman. All markets are manipulated. So that's just how markets are. All markets are manipulated. The ETF issues don't have to do with market manipulation, have more to do with custody standards. There's no real standard for storing and ensuring the storage of cryptocurrency. And yeah, maybe there is something to do with having a good index for crypto, which might also have something to do with the stoppage of some of the futures products not being continued, or they want to reevaluate what index they're using. And that would have to do with so-called price manipulation and volatility. So I don't think that it has to all markets are manipulated. You will never be able to stop that. All you can do is try to make it more transparent and that people have skin in the game in order to manipulate the market. I hate to agree with John McCaffey here, but McCaffey's right. Bitcoin will be fine in the long run. Everyone's worrying right now, but it doesn't matter on a longer scale. I like the part about the corrupt, pus-filled, bi-adripping abscess. That was good stuff. Also, it seems over these last couple of weeks, McCaffey's been acting as a de facto spokesperson for Bitcoin. First, he had his take down of Calvin Air and the young women of the Cuban dancing team and the questionable nature of these Ethereum millionaires and how they choose to spend their money. And then now we have McCaffey again with the chairman and Clayton of SEC taking him down. So I like his enthusiasm. I like his leadership, especially when other former perhaps leaders of Bitcoin are now going to Ethereum meetups. It's good to have someone out there still talking about Bitcoin. Unfortunately, the someone is John McCaffey. So there are pluses and minuses here. I think this goes well into the exit question. Certainly, John McCaffey is correct about the spirit of Bitcoin. But is he right about the price? Will the price of Bitcoin hit $500,000 by 2020? Or will John McCaffey have to eat his own dick? Dan Eve. Wow. I'd love to see a $500K million Bitcoin. I think that McCaffey's going to be doing some sausage goblin in 2020. Oh no. He, oh goodman. Is Dan Eve correct? Is John McCaffey in trouble? He is partially correct. What's going to add is the price is going to go to $499,999 and then he will have to eat his dick too. An army of shorters taking down the price of Bitcoin on January 1st just in time for poor Mr. McCaffey. Sure. He's already working on a plan to weasel his way out of it. He'll eat part of his dick. He'll eat cells from his dick. They'll make a clone of his dick and he'll eat that. I'm sure he's got a plan to get out of this $500,000 by 2020. I like it though. I like everything about it. Moving on to issue two. Now hiring. This is not the right graphic. Jack Dorsey of Square and Twitter. We don't even have the graphic. It's gone. Jack Dorsey, CEO of Twitter and Square announced on Twitter of course that Square is hiring three to four crypto engineers and one designer to work full time on open source contributions to the Bitcoin ecosystem. Work from anywhere, Jack wrote, report directly to me and we can even pay you in Bitcoin. Once again, the CEO of Twitter and Square is tipping his hand and exposing that he is a huge fan of Bitcoin. Theo Goodman is this good for Bitcoin? Is this how open source software should be developed? It's not bad for Bitcoin. I guess it's good for Bitcoin. It's always good if people want to fund development and if they have development and want to make something useful and that's good. It could be partial damage control from him embarrassing himself on the Joe Rogan podcast. Yes. Thank you for your feedback. I think that there's definitely some damage control going on. Maybe it's distraction tactics like used by politicians but he's learned by that now. He does seem to be a big fan of Bitcoin. That's good. He seems to be legitimately interested in it and if he's willing to put his money where his mouth isn't developed something and that's great. Hopefully he doesn't go down the dark path that Coinbase has gone down. Let's see. And already on Twitter people are tempting him and talking about that dark path Theo. They want him to accept altcoins in the square cash app. They want to accept altcoins on Twitter. Why use lightning for tipping when you could use tipping coin or Joey coin. Joey coin a very popular coin developed by my friend Joey. He owns most of them but you should use it now. Dang. Yangbuk. This is a toy coin. They take Theos even. We've got a special slot for The Theos. It's in the back. Dan Eve, your thoughts on Jack Dorsey recruiting his own Bitcoin Posse. Yeah, I think it's great that he wants to better the ecosystem. He understands the importance of open source technology and supporting those projects. The people that contribute to open source they often do it in their own time. They're not paid. They're just contributing because they want to contribute and to better. The code environment. So, is like your train thing. Dan's on a train. But yes, I put should in there for a reason. I'm not sure if this is how open source should work. Yes, it's good to have a celebrity like Jack or maybe Zuckerberg or the guy from Coinbase, Brian Armstrong or whatever, come along and hire a couple developers. Maybe they work on good things. Things that are good for Bitcoin and they make up their own mind. Like I want to fix security patches or whatever. Maybe they work on things that are good for Coinbase. Maybe these guys work on things that are good for Twitter. I'm especially interested by the inclusion of the designer. Is he going to open source some wallet designs? Are they going to add to the Bitcoin logo collection? As long as it's released, creative commons are free and open or whatever one of those options. Sounds great. Not sure if this is how it should work. But until we have the properly funded Linux foundations that maybe they have in some of these crazy altcoins, maybe we'll start to see that kind of foundation based development instead of each company volunteering. Because we try the volunteer thing before. It works right until they stop paying their volunteers. They had a lot of previous volunteers on the old things. Dan, Ev, any more to say from the train? I think it's a good positive thing that he's acknowledged. The UI is an area that doesn't need to be improved in Bitcoin. And making things a much smoother user experience. So I think that obviously it's been driven by development. But then what's kind of I think, black to bit, is the design side of things. But somewhat it's got it nailed. Others are sort of getting there, but at least I think having a focus on design and making the easiest possible user is going to have a great impact on getting in no coiners. And we've previously seen some examples of Jack's work when Square or the cash app released a really nice children's book that explained how Bitcoin worked. And it wasn't all biased like then. They used cash app at the end. It was a nice explainer of Bitcoin done for the community written in a children's style. So people can understand it. Moving on to the exit question. Can you imagine anything better than the CEO of Twitter and Square going hardcore Bitcoiner? Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Justin Bieber, Mark Zuckerberg, Theo Goodman. I think definitely Justin Bieber would be a lot better. So from your list, I'd have to go with Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber gets a vote. Dan Eve, will you stick with the beab? Oh, well, I think Jack's calling everything and it's great to find Bitcoin, but he's not really hugely known in the wider world. So someone like Bezos would have a lot more weight, especially if people think that he in adopting Bitcoin would also mean Amazon adopts it and we all know that would be absolutely huge. With Zuckerberg and the Facebook are bringing out their own crypto. So Facebook is going to be getting Bitcoin up anytime soon. And Dan nails it. It's Bezos and Amazon. They run a retail shop. They need an online currency that's a single direction that they could also hold for their customers. They've been talking about becoming a bank and here it is right here, sent from the heavens as if Bezos was a pre-planned alien invasion with all of this worked out. It's the perfect currency for Amazon to use in their customer-friendly bank that never takes your money. Everyone wants to bank with Amazon because they have such high levels of customer service, such respect in the industry. No one thinks they could be bad bankers. Why don't they just take the world's best currency along with them? Did you know the world crypto network has its own audio podcast on iTunes and many other platforms? You can listen to the amazing shows of the world crypto network in audio without the video on iTunes and other platforms. Today, subscribe to the world crypto network. Issue 3. Crypto Yang Gang Andrew Yang, the presidential candidate who wants to give every adult American $1,000 a month to help counter the devastating effects of automation. Currently, all truck drivers and related industry are under grave threat with less than 5 years remaining. Cashiers, call center workers are also doomed. And now, Yang is the choice of cryptocurrency as well. Yang accepts Bitcoin for his campaign and declared himself a fan of Bitcoin's underlying technology. Who isn't? And believes that cryptocurrency could be critical in creating digital social currency. And Eve, is Andrew Yang right? Could Bitcoin change the nature of money from something impersonal to something social? In the same way that the freedom dividend or universal basic income could change our worldview from one of scarcity to one of abundance? Are we in the early stages of the real Bitcoin revolution? Well, I think I'm not sure about universal basic income, but I'd like to see universal Bitcoin income. In general, it's good to see a politician as big on crypto, someone who's in a position of influence and power is always good, especially when it comes to the legal side of things. And certain places of pushing like Wyoming are pushing for Bitcoin to be a currency. And I believe that's a number of other places of following suit. Now, I think, unfortunately, I want the job automation. And I always think about the fact that the job can go rather than going up as well. Now, you may have less jobs in certain areas because of automation. There's a lot of infrastructure that's required to make automation work. You've got to have engineers. The engineers have got to learn that there's a lot of other kind of things that are kind of, yeah, other areas that are improved upon and jobs that are created about it. So, yeah, and the other thing is job, particularly jobs coming up. What expense really is the efficiency of the company. And obviously, they do it to improve costs and in theory, if they are not running as efficient as possible, they will have less room for growth, which means less jobs. So, yeah, it's a rock in a hard place. It's not between a rock in a hard place, is there so? Well, I believe the devastating effects of automation are real. And we're feeling it already with the loss of auto jobs, any other kind of manufacturing jobs in America. A lot of these have been lost to robots before they were moved overseas to overseas robots. This is a global problem. It's something that's getting worse and worse. And basically, I agree with Andrew Yang, where if we start basic income too early, it's not too much of a problem. But if we start it too late, there's a huge disaster coming. It's the kind of thing that will affect everyone. Even if you aren't a truck driver, you're not a cashier, you don't work for someone that is a cashier, so on and so forth. These things have ripple effects. If their lives are destroyed, it will destroy other people's lives. I think we should reduce this damage. Yang has talked about a value added tax, like they have in Europe. At half the level of that, you could easily pay for more than 80% of the program. The rest could be made from people spending the money, which is what they're going to do if you give them the money. So I think this is a good idea. I'd like to see it more in the debates. I'm excited that Joe Rogan and the internet have pushed Yang up to this level. I'm not surprised. Cryptocurrency people are with it. But I do think libertarians are going to be against it. Theo, hopefully, going to give us another side here. Disagree with me. Go ahead. I don't think that. So first, I don't. Not even 100% sure he wants it for. I think he just wants it for. He thinks it's like a. Pragmatic reason that he wants UBI. That it's going to be. I don't think that it's like ideological in some ways. That being said, I don't think UBI really solves anything. If everyone gets the same and that just inflates all the prices. And then if you want to raise the sales tax, which is basically VAT, then all the low income people that you're trying to help will have to pay more for whatever they want to buy. But I like the UBI idea. Like Raptor said, universal Bitcoin income. Because this is where. And could be why some of the sarcastic memes are really popular in crypto. Because well, it's pretty simple. You get a thousand bucks a month for free. You buy crypto, OTC. And you just use crypto and you can't tax it. Because you bought OTC and it's not linked to you. So you take it out of the circulation. That is real universal Bitcoin income. And I think that maybe some people will see it as that as the pragmatic way of doing it. And that's just an example of one of the many types of fraud or so-called fraud. Maybe that people will attempt whenever you give them free thousand bucks. Not only, there'll be all kinds of other ways to to abuse it. So in the end, you're going to, if you give everyone a thousand bucks extra month, the people that already have enough money will probably buy nicer apartments. There'll be more competition for those apartments. That means the rent prices will go even higher in the cities than they are now, which are already an extremely high demand. You raise a VAT. That means poor people have even a harder time buying stuff. Because it's about what you buy. That's what you're taxed. So it's kind of wrecked in general, UBI. It sounds good. It's free stuff. I think the whole appeal of Yang to me is not UBI. It's just that he is someone that talks like a real person that you could probably just talk to. He gets memes. He is a power Twitter user. And he's willing to engage with people that disagree with him and not just yell at them like ideological, something, something you're racist. So from that point of view, he's really cool. I don't think so. I think that let's take, let's not just put him as the UBI person. I think he has some other ideas. Also interestingly enough, I believe he has the weird idea that UBI will actually make the government smaller. So I think it's a little bit more complicated with him. So it's worth at least just taking a look at what he says in my opinion. And I think the people, the Bitcoin people like him because he likes memes because he's good at using Twitter. And maybe they think they can buy 3,000 bucks of crypto every month. Well, I'd be fine if they buy 1,000 bucks worth of crypto every month. That's fine with me. Using it as a currency, that's good too. I'd be fine if you want to donate it to charity, burn it, spending it's the best. It gets back into the economy. It spends more money. We could also fund it with a direct tax on the businesses that benefit from the automation. Places like Google, the self-driving truck companies. All these kind of things because these jobs aren't going away. I do agree with Dan. There's going to be some kind of engineer jobs fixing the robots, fine tuning them, so on and so forth. But unfortunately, it's going to be very difficult to retrain the 50-year-old truck driver to do that engineer job. As much as we would like to be optimistic about that, they have tried that terrible success rate. So we need to do something. It's a humanist issue. I like what Theo said that it's not. Yang's not a socialist here. He's a capitalist. He's made lots of money through being a venture capitalist, so on and so forth. He's doing UBI because he thinks looking at the problem of automation, jobs completely going away for some groups of people, truck drivers, cashiers, call center workers. We've already lost auto workers. What can we do to help these people directly, not in a statistical sense, but in an actual real world sense? I think we're having a good debate discussion about it. Like Theo said, Andrew Yang will talk to people on the other side. I think that's laudable as well. Dan, Ev, do you have more on this before we move to the exit question, Theo? Anything else? Let's see. Yang bucks. It's kind of party token. That's it. There is also, I want to put forward the libertarian idea, and I do kind of agree with you, but this could be said about any government spending. They're constantly borrowing more money, they're constantly printing more money, they're devaluing their money, especially you're putting into Bitcoin. The more you can get the government to spend more money, the weaker the government is, the more it goes into Bitcoin, the stronger the Bitcoin. I've seen that argument as well. So I like the, I wish you'd root for things that you actually root for, but I like the whole, like we're rooting for him because we think the government will make the government fail faster. So I wish we could be optimistic together, though. Let's move on to the exit question. Yes or no? Will universal basic income as a solution to the downsides of automation be a major issue in the 2020 presidential campaign? Theo Goodman. I don't think it'll be a major issue. It might be an issue on the democratic debates or something, but pretty skeptical of it being a major issue. Dan Eve. Yeah, I'd agree. I think that things like climate change, probably some other new immigration crisis of some sort, or I think they'll find something new. I know that Dan was so optimistic with the climate change that we talk about science or something. How about just Trump being bad? Trump having bad manners, the entire campaign. It's all about orange man bad. That's right. No, I'm optimistic that it'll be like Theo said in the democratic debates. I'd love to see it if Yang could get all the other candidates to say yes or no, whether they support basic income, but unfortunately, I do think the Republicans are working up a socialism is bad as the issue of the campaign we've done this before. So you be I will be called socialism and will be a negative. So even though I'm rooting for it is actually bad. It's complex. But we'll just have to see how it shakes out. No one ever thought Trump would be president either, but we'll have to see how it goes. Moving on issue four, lightning labs launches lightning loop. Normally lightning channels have been created with fixed amounts designed for temporary use. When your funds are exhausted, you must create a new lightning channel, incurring fees in a time delay before you can use your channel. However, new technology from lightning labs will allow you to reuse your channels, solving many of the lightning networks' pain points, including channels and liquidity management. The lightning bitcoins scaling solution continues to plow forward as other players sit on the side endlessly doubling their block size and wondering why such multiplication isn't seen as technological innovation. Dan Eve is the lightning network the future of bitcoins scaling. Well, I think so. I've been using it a lot recently for messing about on Satoshi's place to booking hotels on a trip, which were testing at the moment. I think it's a nice fluid experience. I'm using Zap wallet. I think there's a lot of room for changes and improvements, but certainly at the moment, sending Bitcoin sub Satoshi is a huge plus. In terms of the design, I think the UI improvements to make it as simple as possible as we've discussed some earlier, that's going to really have a good impact. But also, in terms of just general testing, I suppose, there's some of the wallets I've often find have got some problems with them, not necessarily slightly. Sorry, not biting actually, but some other ones. I think that there's a lot of areas where we're gradually improving and the development has been largely in testing, has been done by a lot of developers who are reviewing their own code. We're getting more funding that's coming in. We're seeing designers and better designs that are coming out, more testing, more solid applications. I think that's overall good for the ecosystem. Steve Balmer said developers, developers, developers, but for lightning, we need designers, designers, theo Goodman. That's good. It's definitely, lightning is definitely part of scaling. Side chains are also part of scaling. Maybe some other weird stuff we don't even know about could be part of scaling. Lightning also improves privacy. Some people forget that. Even recently, someone that is no longer on Twitter for whatever reason really had a contention with lightning, one of the lightning detractors because it is private, because he claims that Bitcoin shouldn't be private. Anyway, in any case, don't forget lightning is not just about free transactions and that kind of thing, but it's kind of like going through a go-for-hole and then transacting and then coming out the other end, somewhere else. And if Flute helps you with that, then I think that's good. It's also the only the first of these scaling solutions. Like theo said, side chains are another option. I think they could build another layer on top of lightning or even inside of lightning, a nested layer and then we have multiple nested layers. And now things are getting really private or at least really confusing. But I think that somehow they'll be able to program it all together. So I think this is an exciting development. Not much we can really say about it. It's a technical issue. We hope we explained it well like they're saying you could put the money in, take the money out and keep using the same tube. So if you think of this as a pneumatic tube system and you put your money in a tube and it goes places and it comes back, now you can edit the contents of the tube. So pretty exciting stuff from the lightning people. Theo disagree says no one knows what a pneumatic tube system is, but that's okay. They can look that up. Newmatic. It's one of those silent letters. Let's move on to the exit question. While it's fun to talk of payment channels and lightning loops, what are the possibilities that all of this technology will be obfuscated out of the user interface, allows the user to just use Bitcoin. Dan, Eve on a scale of 0 to 100%. I's muted. Okay. So what's the possibility? I was like, 100%. No, no, 0%. What's the question? 100%. What's the possibility? The hardest stuff will be taken out of the interface. Oh, well, it's going to revolve eventually. One thing I just give back to Lightning in general, I don't know. Can you remember a while back? I think it was Paul Burian and Tiffany Adem was saying that lightning is an upcoin. What do you think of that? I don't think lightning is an upcoin. So I think it's, is it being added to, to Cripsy? Yeah, to Cripsy. It hasn't been added to Cripsy. Lightning, lightning, lightning, lightning BTC or lightning LTC or something. We're proud to announce at Cripsy base that you can now convert your coins to another new coin called lightning BSD. Lightning BTC, there it is. Also a trainable on Minimal. You can get it on BTC-E or Mt. Gox or Cripsy. But yes, I think it will be taken out. We won't be talking about payment channels and how to use lightning loop. I don't think you'll have to push a button. Oh, I didn't start my channel with Lightning Loop enabled. It's so confusing. This is just an early phase of this because I've heard the other side say, oh, lightning is too confusing. Oh, what are we going to do? It's like, yeah, using Bitcoin on the command line was too confusing for a lot of normal people too. But we're going to get past that. You just have to give it time. Theo, will it be worked out 0 to 100 percent? I think it'll be worked out maybe 30 percent of something. I think that generally speaking, there's always going to be a trade off to how much privacy and how much sovereignty you want to have as to your technical knowledge or at least your enough knowledge to know to be careful of something. So it's kind of a scale. So the truth, there could be software where you don't have to worry about it. And then there's going to be maybe some trade-offs for that. But generally speaking, we as humans are going to have to learn about software and hardware that it contains a lot of value. And most hardware and software that's built today was not built with the idea of having a bare asset on it. So I think that's just a whole new dimension of learning that all of us are going to have to have. And right now we're kind of doing it with different kind of band-aids. So I think it's going to be a sliding scale depending on how much convenience, verse, how much sovereignty and privacy you want. It's funny, we were talking about a BO2K and back orifice, the cult of the dead cow because of the Beto announcement that he used to be a member of that hacking group. And back in the day, the ability to remote control someone else's computer. Someone leaves their laptop open, they go out of the room, click the clickity, you put the floppy disk in, you install the little program. And now, you're messing around with your friend's mouse and they think their computer's possessed or maybe you're reading their email or you're messing with their files, right? It was used for a lot of goofy things, right? Because you could destroy someone's work on a computer, but you couldn't steal all of their money. Now it's totally different. If you're controlling someone's computer and they have Bitcoin on there or they log into an exchange and you were controlling their computer, you could steal their money. So like Theo said, we're going to have to make the hardware and the software better because of the fact that people might be storing money on them now, which is a holy new idea. Obviously, you were storing maybe your music, maybe your personal photos, like the whatever it was when the Apple photos got stolen, all the celebrities, that thing happened. These all things, that's what you stored on your computer. That was the worst possible thing that could get out. Your work information, your presidential information, whatever it is that kind of thing. Now it's your money. So I think that's exciting. I want to actually feel safer using another S10. I haven't invested it properly yet. After the realising I can open it using a picture of myself, but I actually kind of feel I'd be more comfortable using my phone. And the reason why is because if you've got a ledger, that means you've got Bitcoin. If you've got a phone, it doesn't mean you've got Bitcoin. So I actually get free town by taking my ledger with me, just in case someone kind of mugs you or whatever. So yeah, I think that's another place that's going to improve this kind of the ability to hide your hardware, I suppose. And in terms of that type of privacy factor, physical privacy. It's much better to have your phone be your hardware instead of like Dan was saying, a ledger or something that makes you stick out as an obvious Bitcoiner. Let's move on to the bonus issue, issue five. 95% of reported Bitcoin trading volume is fake, says Bitwise. According to Bitwise, they did a study of the market. They looked at coin market cap, which reports $6 billion a day in Bitcoin trading. But the actual figure is 273 million, not billion, a mere 4.5% of the reported amount. They say the only exchanges that have any volume are the top 10 of 81 exchanges. Binance in the lead with $110 million of volume allegedly, Bitfinex, $38 million, crack in 31 million, Bitstamp in a tie, 31 million. Bitcoin based 27 million. Now we go down to level BitFlyer, $14 million, Gemini, $8 million, BitSix million, Bittrex, $5 million, Poloniacs, a Paltry, $1.4 million. Theo Goodman, are you shocked to learn that the Bitcoin exchanges have a mere 5% of their actual volume? I'm shocked and appalled, unbelievable. I wonder the thing is, since you just popped this on us, I haven't had a chance to look at the report, I would beg everyone to have a look what they define as so-called fake volume. Because that in itself is a real debate and no doubt some shady exchanges, you know, wash trade with themselves. Nobody, I don't think anybody is debating that. However, I don't think a lot of people understand how a market making works and I also don't understand. I think if it really goes through the order book, who cares? You know, I mean, if it's obviously just kind of pumping the stats, I mean, there was some really funny charts from, quote, back in the day of the 2015-16 error from OK coin where you thought the bot was taking a T-time, whereas the chart would be flat and the volume would be this high and then the chart would be flat and the volume would be suddenly 90% less. You're like, what's going on? What happened? But there was no price change. So this is just a real, you know, blunt example of what maybe could be evidence of fake volume. But I haven't seen the report. I bet you there is some fake volume. I don't know how much. I would be interested to know what their standards are and how they went about it. I mean, if they really did like more of an investigation, like, say, email them and say, hey, I want to become a market maker at your exchange. What do you guys do? What kind of practices do you have? And if they find some really fishy stuff, then that could be interesting. If they're just kind of looking at stats and judging more from outside of the black box of those exchanges, it could be kind of difficult and so you could get into a subjective viewpoint really quickly. So I think let's look at this with a critical eye. No, I'm not shocked. You also have to think these places are worldwide and all kinds of different jurisdictions. So welcome to crypto and every market in the whole world is manipulated. I'm shocked to find gambling going on in this establishment. They say they contacted the exchanges. They got the data. The only thing they count as a real trade is like you're saying things that go across the order book. So this is taking out all of the other false trades. It says in the article, there's many reasons in exchange who would want their volume to be higher. They want to be seen as a popular exchange. They want you to trade there. Things like that. There's a reason to fake this. And like you said, okay, coin, back in the day, we had a lot of exchanges that didn't charge fees. It's always a bad sign when they're not charging fees that always leads to bots or other problems. Remember one of the reasons they found the alleged Mount Gox bots was because they weren't paying fees on their trades. Then Eve, your thought on 95% of the volume being fake? I mean, let's not feed you about the bush. There's clearly some washtraiding going on here and there. And I know I won't call them out on it, but I know multiple coins that were basically told unless you increase volume artificially, we're going to delish you. So we know that there's pressure for exchanges to put this on us on other people. It just seems that 5% of the actual recording reported volume just seems so incredibly low. I can't believe that. I'd like to review the stats behind it. It just seems that I think that there's definitely a lot of market manipulation. And I was actually interviewed on Yavin earlier, who's the CEO of Cointelligence. And Eve obviously has done it. His Cointelligence has done their own investigations and have found repeated patterns of washtraiding as well. But I think if it was anywhere near the 95%, then I think that if that really is the case, then it would be shouted about a lot more. I'm going to read that report in detail. It almost seems like all of the alt coins are fake and that they fake their volume to get onto fake exchanges so they could have fake volume so they could make tons of real money. It almost seems like that would be something worth doing. I remember one time in World War II, the Allies set up a whole separate invasion front for general patent to run. They had their main invasion front, which we all know, D day was it done Kirk with the boats and the cliffs and everything. Then they had their second day invasion secondary invasion front. They're supposed to be up the north on a different part of land. And they set up patent with like fake tents and fake helicopters and all kinds of fake stuff. And they took pictures of it and the Nazis were really focused on patent and his fake invasion so much so that when the real invasion came, they had to be convinced several times that it was not that was the invasion that it wasn't just a faint or a fake invasion because patent wasn't there and patent was still running his fake invasion. So we've had massive frauds in the past 95% fake is very massive but remember Dan the entire industry, the entire circle jerk if you will of alt coins relies on everyone else being in on it. So if you've printed your own money and your buddy next to you printed his own money and their buddy over there printed their own money, obviously a lot of people are buying and using this new money and it's really easy to just spin up some new money and you can have a complicated scheme. You can run a crowd fund for a year, have different prices all the time and everyone gets a different price and you can do it randomly. There's all kinds of great ways to to put out your new money but it's really easy if you fake the volume. It's that volume that's hard to generate. That's that pesky volume. But we'll move on to exit question. I don't have an exit question so let's go to predictions or a story of the week. Dan Eve, live from the train, what's your story of the week? Okay, so my story of the week is, well actually so I was announced this morning the set for coinfest and wow I'm actually getting it to train it. And after I did I got a message out of the blue from Adam Back who invited me to the advancing Bitcoin conference in mortar from the fourth to the seventh vapor I'm going to be shifting to 50% of the vapor. So you can get down there then I thoroughly recommend getting involved and come to the advancing Bitcoin conference in mortar. All right Dan, thanks for joining us from the train. Check out the advancing Bitcoin conference in mortar, very cool crypto raptors going to perform. Thanks again to Adam Back, very cool stuff. Great to hear him. Theo Goodman, prediction or a story of the week. Story of the week is the conferences are coming. Coinfest, magical crypto conference, consensus, blockchain hotel, unchained, transfer of any crypto conference, Barcelona trading conference, just to name a few. I can't even name, I can't even name them all, but the conference season is starting. The conferences are here. You can check it out on the chain of thoughts, medium post. The conferences are coming. Very cool and I agree with you. There are a lot of conferences coming and I'm even going to try to make it to some two. It's very cool. Like Dan said, in about a week I'm going to leave for the UK. I'm going to be at Coinfest in Manchester, April 4th, 5th and 6th, something like that. Then I'll be doing a couple of other Bitcoin meetups around the UK before I come home. Then like Theo said, I'm going to go to blockchain hotel at the end of May in SN Germany. That means eating. Then I'm going to go to Amsterdam for breaking Bitcoin. That sounds good. After that, HCPP in Prague, maybe a couple of other conferences like Theo said, unchained I think that's in Berlin going to that. We've got a whole conference schedule planned and thanks again to everyone who donates that makes travel possible. It's very expensive to fly on flights and all these kind of things. Thanks to everybody who donates a couch or an extra room so I can crash there. Thanks to our donor 0.0125196 and donor 0.00049841. You can pause the show and donate now to support the Mad UK tour starting soon. I think we're about out of time but you guys can go and pause this and go get your crypto wallet or whatever. I think we're out of time. Anything else? Anybody? Dan in the train station, Theo in a green room. That's all. Thanks everyone for watching. Make sure to give us a thumbs up and put your comments below. That's right. Thumbs up in a share. Until next time. Bye. Bye. And Dan's at the pump thing. Say hi to Dan. Pumpkin. Pumpkin. Pumpkin. Bye. Bye. Bye.