The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Gabriel D. Vaan from Future Rent. Hello everyone, thank you so much for having me, wonderful to see you, go Bitcoin. Samson Mao from Blockstream. What? This is not magical crypto? Shem Booth Spain from admedia.co.uk Welcome ladies and gentlemen, BTC! And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one, Segwit Conspiracy. Chinese chat logs were leaked this week featuring Jihan Wu, CEO of Bitmain, speaking with mining pool leaders and software developers. The logs discuss the cost of a Segwit soft fork, with Jihan claiming repeatedly that such cost would be greater than you can imagine. When the pool's attempt to push back, saying that Segwit is interesting technology or questioning Jihan's insistence on a hard fork, he is unmoved, focusing on the extreme magnitude of the costs. Gabriel D. Vaan could these chat logs be the smoking gun that show it was never about big or small blocks, but Bitmain's ASIC boost software? Yeah, I think it is kind of a smoking gun. It sounds like the timestamps work out and certainly that makes a lot of sense because the miners and the entire big block sort of consortium back then that was pushing for a hard fork for no discernible reason other than something that we don't know. This is the obvious explanation. We were kind of like wondering what the heck was up and like considering I was talking about just a nation-state attack with no ulterior motive, who knows. And then ASIC boost research came out, I believe Greg Maxwell and some other people were reverse engineering the short cuts. Bitmain was rightly taking advantage of the problem. I mean, there was something built into the protocol at that time and they built application-specific integrated circuits. The application was Bitcoin. There was a short cut that they could take in order to make mine efficient. It had a couple of downsides that didn't really affect them. So hey, I don't have a problem with that. We had problems that it was covert and they were hiding and they were fighting a terrific protocol upgrade that the users were for in order to keep that advantage. That was the problem. The ASIC boost itself, they should have just made a public and said please don't change it. And then we would have said no and then they said it would have sucked it up. Instead they did this whole political plava that of course didn't work because it had no actual logic behind it. It was just a pure greed play. So I'm not surprised at all. We already knew that's what it was. And yeah, it's just more evidence for the fact that they put their own interests above those of Bitcoin. And whenever you do that in Bitcoin, you're going to pay the price by losing reputation. So they don't have that goodwill anymore. Other manufacturers are now even if it's more expensive, people might pick other manufacturers with political reasons because they burnt their reputation by fighting the ecosystem. Not smart. Can't do that in Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't care. Bitcoin, honey badger will always win that argument because it's a collective. It's a true network. It's essential. So and it can work. If you're a corporation and you go into Bitcoin, submit to your master which is the nodes and the ecosystem. It does seem like it was designed not to work. He's even having trouble convincing his potential partners. I just like to ask everyone to give us a thumbs up and a share so that more people will find the show. Samson Mao. Yeah, so I don't think it was this week. I think it was like a year ago, but it just resurfaced somehow this week. So it's again a hot topic. Those pretty or the four will depend on. So you're having some bandwidth issues. Are we losing Samson Mao? Let's say for you. Right. You could try turning your AS boost. If it wasn't, didn't know, then you just see these guys are listing it. But then when AS boost is a thing and people find out, then it kind of changes the story. All right. I think we got about half of that. Sam Booth Spain. Yeah, I think what we see from BitMains actions and obviously then protecting their interest we've seen their approach to be quite strategic and very considered and obviously very, very aggressive. And obviously the way they're talking is very clear to see that they consider it as a kind of almost war effort. And how I think a lot of investors would be very concerned that they would want to be put in money into Bitcoin cash when it's such a highly controlled ecosystem. And essentially because of that poor power, I mean, obviously there's some facts. BitMains made quite a lot of profit or sales turnover and they're moving into AI. They're aggressively realizing they've got to expand because Nvidia and also AMD and Alpha companies as well as companies in Japan and South Korea are already bringing out chips. And we believe also potentially some of those chips could already be mining on the networks. So from what we actually see in the facts on the ground when we see a coordinated approach by them to effectively break chains, create chains and manipulate the market, that's what disappears to show that they're considering some quite serious moves. So I think any investor or person that's got into Bitcoin or cryptocurrency has got to be very aware of these kind of forces that are behind this fork of Bitcoin. And obviously because of their self-interest, they're incredibly aggressive. I think it's a big wake-up call to anyone in Bitcoin, BTC, as to how our competitors are approaching their strategy. And I think because of that, that's probably why it's come out again. And I think we need to remind ourselves of what are we going to do about that from our campaign, obviously the hand of legality is increasing in the crypto space. And yeah, so that's my opinion. It was interesting to see how much of a war footing they were on. And what really stood out to me is how much G-Han wanted to protect this secret, how much money it was worth to them, what they were willing to do to protect this secret and his insistence on a hard fork. It had to be a hard fork. It was interesting to see they didn't even get into control of the repo or any of the issues that we talked about. They're mainly just focused on how are we going to do this upgrade while maintaining our advantage. They might not have even had a larger plan to run Bitcoin. They might just need to get their upgrade or to get this upgrade through in a way that wouldn't destroy their ace-acquist advantage. Looks like we've lost Samson. Hopefully he'll rejoin us soon. It looked like, once again, his video and his audio was working great before we started. And when we start, I think Google Hangouts turns it on for real and he had a bandwidth problem or something. So hopefully he'll be back. Let's move on to the exit question. With SegWid adoption continuing to rise, will Bitmain throw in the towel and admit defeat or will they double down and copy more and more coins like a Chinese pie-piper, Gabriel Devon? Yeah, I wanted to ask what you mean by that. Copy more coins. What do you mean by that? I want to watch the HBO show Silicon Valley, which is a very familiar with it. A very fired viewing. And if you're up to date, you would know that Jin Yang, I think the character is called, recently went out and said he was going to make a copy of this company, and a copy of that company. And he was even making a copy of Pied Piper that they were working on. Yeah, he even, and then launched an ICO on Twitter. Yeah, and they both made, yeah, there's spoilers out there, I guess, a little bit. But Bitmain then specifically, I think, has a copy of Monero, and it is possible that they copy other coins soon if this strategy works. What do you think about that? Oh, right, right. I see. I think they have Monero. Right. They could have a Z. There's lots of Z-cash coins and clones and things. They could have one. Yeah, I would actually prefer to hear Samson's answer and thoughts about this, because we missed him. So I'm going to skip my turn. Let's go back to Samson. We had about half of your response. What do you think of these chat logs and the potential conspiracy, even if they are older chat logs like you said? So where did they get cut off, exactly? I don't know. Just either start over. I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything. Yeah, it kind of broke off. So mainly, what do you think? Was it not about big blocks or small blocks, but about the ASIC booth software? Well, that's what it looks like. So the research into their boards actually shows that their boards are designed for a ASIC booth, specifically to booths. So you don't go ahead and build something. You don't build a phone with a camera in it and not use the camera, right? Because they're saying we only tested it on TestNet. But you actually have this whole fabrication manufacturing process to design the ASICs to boost. So it's kind of like, what do you believe? Do you believe your feelings? Like Zuko or do you look at what they did actually and designed? And manufactured hundreds of millions of dollars of manufacturing. So it's really your call on what the reality is. But at least we know that there is ASIC booths. And I think that's a huge motivating factor to block segwit. There's other things too. I think there is a fear, a misunderstanding of the technology. So they think that if they enable segwit and things move to lightning, there will be no more on-chain transactions, which is false. I need to say that because it's false. I even saw that come out again in a coin desk article written by Michael J. Casey and he said the same exact thing that the miners believe. And I don't understand this, that somehow lightning network will be incredibly popular. And the Bitcoin network will be boring. Move on to the exit question, Shem Booth, Spain. Will Bitmain throw in the towel? Or are they going to keep doing this and copy more coins? Well, think about it, right? Hello, what's happening? We know these guys are doubling down. Craig Wright was only in the conference the other day. Up in the 32 megabit block size. That's like one car going down the road. Let's make the highway huge. Just to prove the point, he was on there discussing how it was almost like a technocrat. I felt like I was watching Wadlam Tutani from aliens or something. For claiming how he's going to put Terraform in space and he's the solution. It was almost worrying, I would say that. I was absolutely surprised at their strategic, their unlimited, how can I put it, aspirations for Bitcoin cash. They're so aggressive with it. It mutts the water. It should be a real wake-up call because the thing is, they're so scared. Just as every other government in the... Am I allowed to go on? I don't want to go off on too much. You can go on. Just get inside, myself. Go on and save it for later. Every government's getting a little bit tiptoe in. These companies, everyone's trying to get in there and expand and take over and hold territory, push their product, push their chain, push their. It's proliferating chains off and it's wasting energy in coding time because Bitcoin is the longest chain by consensus and is the most trusted chain. We can all argue about different ways to make a combustion engine. You've got to remember the Bitcoin BTC is like a rocket flying through the air that's increasing capacity, increasing velocity and speed and all the while while it's still traveling. That to me is the rarest, the rarest, most valuable element in the galaxy and it can do transplantatory transactions. Fiat can't do that. It's a global monetary system that's not evil contrary to what some people may say out there. These guys over a Bitcoin cash absolutely understand it. I can't believe a size bitterness. They're sitting there. You know what? You Bitcoin core, guys, kicked us out. You kicked us out of your band back in the day and the best programmer in the world, you kicked him out. They're really bitter. I said, wow, they've come back and join us. We could do it better. We need more people. That's why people got to really be aware that it's a very small micro ecosystem Bitcoin cash controlled by many, well, small amount of people. We've seen by these emails, thank goodness for way all pandering is fantastic investigations and delivery of that news to us in the tweets, fierce, hyperspace. We very much appreciate his work. We know that these guys are considered. These guys are gunning for it and it means that we need to weaponize as well and it means we need to get back on it and re-energize in about what Bitcoin means to us. That's building things side-chaining around it, mesh network and it Christ, if you can stick it in Bitcoin, go for it. You could go on the GitHub repository right now and be part of history. You can be part of that and help build the greatest ever biggest computing network that's going to make the world trillions upon trillions of value and help us get into a better world. That's why we over-ear at Bitcoin, BTC, that's why we're doing this. Unfortunately, the guys are over at B Cash and thinking about that. They're thinking war, they're thinking corporate war, they're thinking war to take over Bitcoin. They're not interested in the future. They're not interested in making the world better. They want everyone using their money. Not our money, the world's money, their money. I know, I think every... Listen, I've held Bitcoin Cash. You're listening to someone that's an expert in cryptocurrency usage. I'm not a programmer, but I know how to use it. I know how to use most cryptocurrencies, store, transfer and user. Bitcoin Cash is no different from Bitcoin. It's so close. You wouldn't even understand it. The end user doesn't need to care about the technical underlying under the point. People don't care. People just want to use the technology. That's my comment there. Yes, they all going to go for it. They all go for it now. Excellent stuff. I like that. It sounds good. We can hear you again. I think it's worth noting that if people have joined B Cash and if they want to change their mind and come back, that we would welcome them back. I think that's true. Bitcoiners don't care if you had a philosophical disagreement. You went one way. We went the other way. Maybe this new information looking at this behind the scenes, thinking about the ace of Oost advantage has changed your mind and it's not so much about big blocks versus small blocks as it is miners against everybody else. It's okay to make a change on your decisions if new information comes in. You have to analyze the new information. We can hear Samson pretty good now but we're going to go to Gabriel D. Vine for the exit question. What do you think now? Will Bitmain throw in the towel or they keep going with this? I think they'll keep trying to scam and make as much money off the space as much as they can. That is as many corporations are finding out the wrong way to go about it. Eventually that will bite them in the ass. In the short term, they'll be able to make lots of money. They're doing a lot of mining, which is smart. They're going to make a lot of mistakes along the way. This is one of their big ones. They lost a lot of goodwill, like I said before. They'll likely continue losing goodwill unless they have a change in leadership or some sort of change in understanding, which isn't very likely. All right. Let's go to Samson now for the exit question. Do you think Bitmain will stick with Bitcoin cash or will they change their mind? Bonus question, would you accept the B cashers back if they said, hey, we made a mistake. We want to rejoin. They can do whatever they want. Bitcoin doesn't really care. If people want to buy Bitcoin that previously bought B cash, more power to them. It's not really our place to sell them. Don't buy this because you buy that. For Bitmain, I think they're going to have to keep on supporting B cash. They're holding a lot of B cash bags. I really don't see that changing. At the same time, they were at one point only accepting B cash. Now they're accepting Litecoin and Bitcoin too. They're already softening their stands. But still, they're holding the bags so they cannot abandon it. They'll have to give it some minimum level of support. The problem with them forcing it into existence is now they're responsible for it. A lot of people, especially in China, that supported it and believed in it. If Bitmain suddenly withdrew support, they're going to have a lynch mob on their doorstep. Moving on to the next topic. Issue 2. Pass rate climbing. As the price of Bitcoin continues to decline or move sideways, there's but one constant. The has rate is always rising. As Forbes speculates, why would the miners continue to invest more and more resources into mining Bitcoin? Do the miners know something that we don't? Samson Mao does the long-term fundamental value of Bitcoin. What way, short-term, bearish price? Oh, definitely. Right now, I think it's very sentiment-driven, the entire market. But there is supply and demand. The supply of Bitcoin is going to drop at the next having. I think people don't really think about that. They're looking at a lot of sentiment right now versus the technicals of how Bitcoin works, how much is being produced. I mean, to even maintain stable price, that means there's a decent chunk of demand every day taking 1800 coins. I think it's definitely undervalued right now. Hashrate climbing is just showing that people have bought mining equipment previously because they also thought it was undervalued. We've been in this bear trend for a couple of months now. Mining hashrate that is coming on now is actually a few months old or at least a month old. It's definitely going to keep on increasing still. Sham Booth Spain. Well, okay. There's two factors. There's all the people that are all the technical, all the professional data centers, the Bitmains, the people with some heavy due eGear. There's all the people that are GPUs. There's all the people that are using GPUs to buy altcoins then to retrieve Bitcoins. There's a couple of currencies that are almost being supplemented by their interaction in and out of Bitcoin due to mining. Once their utility for mining becomes under question because of the increase in arms tech rate which is occurring, this shows that the arms races occurring still the numbers. What it's also showing is that because every coin that gets released first is CPU GPU and then application as you said Gabriel, I believe that I can't never get the word right. They're always up and Bitmains trying to do it. They're baking in their little hack in their. This is showing a bullish trend because everyone likes to mone at the miners but they're also a reciprocal symbiotic relationship occurring. They're protecting and as much as we hate Bitmains, Bitmains, don't turn it off tomorrow. He can't because he's symbiotically attached to us and he's bad-holding and obviously as you've mentioned. It's a very complex scenario in which lots of things are all interacting in exchange and as it's growing out, the sheer size of the Bitcoin network, wasn't it someone was saying the other day we don't have to worry about the 51% attack and verge and some other coins with a manero with the four free coins falling off of it and they were pushed one by Bitmains and it was real shady. Forks are shady business. There's no free lunch with the proof of work. There's no free edlock. Bitcoin comes for free in crypto and that's the beauty of it because you want something valuable. I don't want a replication. I want to know that what I've got is valuable and I don't need to trust the person I need to communicate our media of transference and value. I believe it's a bullish scenario. I believe it's people infested in technology. I believe that it's probably some technologies we're not aware of that already on market pre-mining before they go to market at the end of the year. I think it's an excellent point that it is an ecosystem and that we are all connected. The G&H has to hold his Bitcoin. He has to mine his Bitcoin and some day he has to spend his Bitcoin. He's on the same network and the same chain as the rest of us. That's why it's so distressing and disappointing to see them do things like this Bitcoin cash fork because it does work against all of us. It split us into two camps. I remember beforehand, I tried a lot of interviews and things trying to talk about Bitcoins and Bitcoin. Maybe we could talk this through. Maybe we could talk people down. It worked for a little while and then they just split it anyway. It's disappointing when you have these people that you think are good actors and they turn out to be bad actors. It's going to be a Gabriel Devon. One thing that nobody has mentioned yet that I would definitely say was missing from this article is something that Ansel Lindner says a lot on Twitter and in his excellent podcast, Bitcoin and markets, which is very intelligent in my opinion and it's really very consistent, which is mining hash rate is a lagging indicator compared to price. What that means is that miners look at the price. They make their decisions for how to conduct their business, i.e. buying, selling, hardware, labor, real estate, whatever rent, whatever their costs are and however they're conducting their business. The Bitcoin price has a big effect on it because they're going to be at any given time holding and or selling a certain amount of their mining rewards. Hash rate is very clearly a very lagging indicator. It takes months sometimes to save up the money or to make the order, to set it up. You get you know, you're waiting for a new model of a miner to come out. You buy 60 of them and it takes another few weeks to set up. You're talking about a several month thing and we as far as Ansel is concerned and I think I agree with him. We're still actually seeing the bump from the December price rise now. So it's not in my opinion, it's not, it is very bullish for the Bitcoin network in general to have more hash rate. Yes, but I wouldn't point to this as an indicator for anything in the short term in maybe even medium term. It's just really not relevant as the following wax explains better than I can. Between the hash rate and the Google searches, you think we'd have this thing figured out. We could tell exactly when it's going up or down. But it seems like the past doesn't predict the future perfectly. It's strange. So there's some other factors too. Due to the crackdown on mining in China, Bitmain is less able to self-mine. So hardware that they may have been hoarding for themselves and mining because it's profitable. They're actually, they have to sell them now. So there was a time when the crackdown first started that they were shipping massive amounts of S9s out to North America and trying to get people to buy them or just take them for reselling because they just had no way to deal with that, the volume that they're producing in China. I think a lot of their major facilities were shut down also. So that's another factor of why we're seeing a lot of cheap miners on the market this time. And people are critical of regulations. But if that had happened with butterfly labs, they might have actually shipped me a miner instead of mining for themselves, which was an obvious thing as a business for them to make more money. Yeah. Yeah. And you can kind of see that too because there was an article I saw in CoinDesk about the BITEM miners. Love people bought them and found that they're dusty inside. It looks like they've been used. So it's kind of indicative of what their practices are. It's a shady business. But then if you could plug in a computer and magically make money, why would you not do that? I mean, it's the goose that laid the golden eggs. You've got to accept it. Let's move on to the exit question. The price of Bitcoin. This time, next week, higher or lower, Samsung now. What is it today? Is it 7,500? I believe so, in that range. Well, let's say 8,000 next week. All right. Let's go to Gabriel D. Vine. Since you're not forcing your prediction, I don't feel under any duress to provide one. So I think they're always forced. I think they're always forced is always. Oh my God. I'm going to say that the price will be also higher. Let's go higher one week. All right. Are you still with us? Go ahead. Yeah. I think we're going to have some. I'm looking forward to us to bounce down. We've had like, you know, looking at these past bounces, you know, and obviously, you kind of look back to December. I'm waiting for that last bounce, the balls bouncing down. Or all of the speculation, it's got to be rinsed out. They'll get every last drop, you know, until everyone's capitulated out, and then it all starts again. No, I'm going to say $8,000. $8,500. Okay. All right. And I'm hoping. Oh, I'm praying though that someone's going to come in and scoop up some amazingly rich A reference that's just discovered Bitcoin. And welcome aboard. Comrades. Well, I'll have to see that would be great. But yeah, I definitely reached my capitulation point. I'm ready for it to go back up. But we'll just have to wait and see for next week. Did you know the World Crypto Network has a podcast on iTunes and you could subscribe. We've got more than just the World Crypto Network. We've got Adam Meister and Andy Hoffman and much more. Welcome to the World Crypto Network podcast today. And moving on to issue three, Ripple Napster. The CEO of Ripple has been sharing his opinion about Bitcoin. Speaking at the recent CodeCon conference, he said that Bitcoin may end up being the Napster of digital assets. It's shown what's possible, but Spotify, iTunes, Pandora, even gauged the system and regulators and they ruled the day. Obviously, the CEO of Ripple is more than a little biased, seeing his altcoin as one of the survivors. But more importantly, is he right? Is Bitcoin Napster first, but not last? Shem Booth Spain. Dad, dad, dad, dad, dad, today just in CEO of Ripple Fixies God. No, I throughout human history, kings, tribal leaders, emperors, a few people. I've wanted to take over the world once they died. What was left over their gold? Yeah, same thing. Bitcoin is that gold, my friend. It's difficult, is it? Because he's gone in for his own coin, isn't he? And I've never liked to record it. And they always kind of tried to position himself. They really thought it was a real clever marketing point that, hey, we wear suits. You know, he's our favourite colour. Let's work together. Yeah, you know, we've got, we like the word banks. Everyone forgets that because there's no one to phone up over a Bitcoin customer services, you know, there's also no one for a Bitcoin marketing team to come out and out reach any of the banks. All the bank has to do to use Bitcoin, is to download a wallet and go on an exchange. And the system is already there. They don't need to use Ripple. In fact, it's probably a lot quicker, a lot easier, and a lot more secure, unless you're Ashden Kitchen, or wherever his name is, that was on Ellen the other day. Great PR. You know, but if PR is the only thing that drives the price of your coin, which it is for XRP, and obviously, that happens to a lot of coins, then it's not a good thing, because it's not real functional and real business partnerships. Now, a lot of people at XRP, I always get the feeling that they've all into XRP, and they're in the sorry predicament where they're trying to defend, they're emotionally defending, and it's actually a known problem of in trading, you're back holding, you're waiting for it to go up, and you're kind of, you know, you're egging for it, and that's the only thing that you've got. And everyone's forgetting that you don't need to even use Ripple. If you are a company that wanted to use Ripple, which I'm sure you won't be using it, because it will be ruled by the SEC to be a security very soon, once they look onto the bonnet and understand how it works, okay? And that's something I know you guys will mention as well, right? But also, there's the fact that there's a massive pre-print on Ripple. You know, how can you be an investor of a technology? What's the point of us moving from printed dollars or printed, you know, or any currency, fractional reserve debt-based monetary system? Over to a digital debt-based monetary system, it would be even more efficient in its busts and booms, and via its control of monetary policy, via governments and states. This, i.e. Bitcoin, has the capacity to do what Ripple can already do, and once learned in network and secwit, here's, right? We will have easily 100 billion transactions. We will be able to do as many tokens with smart contracts on as you wish. We can do a coin or we could subdivide a coin for every human on the planet. It will not be a problem. Bitcoin can scale. Bitcoin is being developed surely, slowly and securely, so it is trusted. There's no one man. There's no one man you phone. There's no king. That's the point. There is no person in the middle. That prevents and allows it to be trusted and prevents it from being untrusted. Well, it could be untrusted because it only trusts you to send the money to you, which is a benefit of Bitcoin. But Ripple is a really sketchy system. And they're not new. Why doesn't, well, I want to see another cryptocurrency cap come out and position them self as the more bank-friendly cryptocurrency, and then Ripple will have something to really fucking worry about. Once they've got someone else that can play that bank loving game better, because every bank or I talk to and ask them about Ripple, once they get over the initial hurrah of seeing a few cryptos, they deeply fall in love with the technological wonder and innovation of Bitcoin itself. And yeah, I ask everyone that's holding Ripple to seriously look at what you've got. Look at the pre-mind. Look at the fact that lots of it have been lost very recently. Look at the fact that if a PR-driven coin isn't a coin based on technical fundamentals, it isn't a coin that is trustworthy. It's just, you know, right, guys, we've got a new thing out. Hey, it's gone up 50p. Yeah, three ones are winner. And there's 350 billion of them. So everyone can have a whole Ripple each. Fuck it, Ab10. Yeah, don't mean nothing. It doesn't mean nothing. And of course he's going to blow his trumpet. He's probably, you know, let's face it, he's probably got, you know, four women around in massaging and going, you're worth more than Apple. He's got pardon. You're worth more than Apple. You know, that's, that's, and he's blowing his trumpet. He's going, yeah, we're, we're, yeah, we're the new Bitcoin, we're the new Apple yet, Alphabet. Oh, they, yeah, we're a few, Mira. Yeah, yeah, many have said many have tried many have died, you know, because you can't beat a system that doesn't have a leader. That's the point. And that's why Bitcoin is so resilient over these past 10 years. It could be trusted and is the premium quality trusted crypto in the industry. It is certainly a good point that the banks could simply use Bitcoin if they wanted to. And I've always thought if the banks were going to use ripple, why not just make a copy of ripple and then use that all of these systems with the tokens and everything. All they're really saying is I want to own all the assets. If I can own 100% of the coin, I'll play. And the problem with Bitcoin is you don't get any percent of the coin for free. It doesn't matter if you're a bank or a government or a central bank. Nobody comes along, gives you your 3% of Bitcoin so that it was fair. You have to get them if you want them. You have to decide to get them and that's it. There's no bonuses. Let's go to Gabriel, divine. Still muted. Yeah, no, I'm here. So this comparison to Napster is very funny. It's, you know, Mr. opposite land. It's fantasy and it's actually very, what's the word I'm looking for? It's almost something that you would say facetiously because it's so exactly opposite. But it's important to recognize that there are two sides to the innovation equation when it comes to protocols. There's the pre-phase before the protocol exists and people are trying things out that don't really work over and over. And then a protocol is found. It's not something that anybody owns and that's why it works really well. This is a networking. This is, we're in the land of networking now. And then there are the things that come afterward often also created by centralized institutions like corporations which are a complete joke and totally lack the elements of the networking protocol that has already won. But the monopoly is not concretized yet. So there's a phase where TCP IP was used since the late 60s or whatever it was. And the internet was still so small for 25 years, let's say 20 years, that corporations thought they were still room for innovation and that they would try to put in their go at creating a networking protocol that could take over. And what all the networking, the real networking gurus and engineers that had created CCP IP said was, hey, you know, A or B feature is pretty cool, but you're never going to go anywhere with this and you need to give up because you're already way too late. And it's also completely ridiculous to think that you're going to be able to patent this thing and that it's going to go worldwide. No, it's just not going to happen. And the history, it's not a very widely known history, but I saw some great tweets about it last week, week before. The history of networking protocols and many other computing protocols is littered with the abortions of corporations and governments trying to get on the gravy train and get some control in a networking protocol ecosystem, which is hostile to their approach. And Bitcoin is no exception. In fact, Bitcoin is the one that we've been able to watch most closely. Nevertheless, it takes years and years for these protocols, especially one like Bitcoin that ties into the quote unquote real world, ties into the world of atoms by putting a price based on physical energy coming in. So it's tied to the world of atoms in this way. And that's where it's scarcity really derives from. And so what you have in Napster really was a centralized solution that was really good for the time because BitTorrent didn't exist yet. But three years later, five years later when BitTorrent was invented by Bramcoin 2003, everyone said, oh, this is what we really need. The distributed hash table solves all these problems and now no company can take this over because we needed a file sharing, a decentralized chunk down sharded file sharing protocol. Now we have it. And you'll notice BitTorrent is still huge. It's 15 years on and it won. There's a bunch of file sharing protocols that came out after BitTorrent that didn't win. Bitcoin is BitTorrent for money. All of these other shit coins are trying to jump on the wagon and they're just going to fail and flop just like everything after BitTorrent and TCPIP. And I just want to add to that just one second. I just literally I said to you earlier, Thomas, I was at the blockchain expo and it was full of every corporate outfit peddling their wares, blockchain, blockchain, yeah, but our blockchain is going to improve. And our blockchain does this. Our blockchain, you know, and it's like, man, you know, you're blockchain ain't even out yet. You're talking, where is it? You know, I know we're doing an ICO, man, you've got a co-unboy, and it's just, it, and like you say Gabriel, you're absolutely right. Everyone's coming out peddling their wares, pushing for their interest. They're not interested in world freedom. They don't give a fuck about the kids in Africa or Bitcoin helping them or Bitcoin stopping a next global monetary crash because it's a stable monetary system that makes the whole world fairer for everyone. They care about pushing the crappy blockchain solution that's going to cryptok it is. But whatever, you know, I'm sure cryptok it is a good, I don't want to knock that because that's a good idea even like crushed it. Who never, anyway, two please. All right, I'd also agree with Gabriel that it does seem like the alt coins are more like Napster. They're centralized. They have a founder. They have a single point of failure. You can roll back their chain if you want to. Bitcoin really does seem like more like BitTorrent. It's interesting to see this article and this idea come up again. Bitcoin desk wrote an article four years ago where they said this same thing and at the time, mad Bitcoins was incredibly critical of them, even calling them galactically stupid. I made a great video about it. You can check it out. It's on my Twitter. Let's go to Samson Mal. What did you think about the CEO of Ripple not knowing about BitTorrent at Napster? Well, it was kind of hard to follow Gabe. He kind of nailed everything on the heads there. It's hard for anyone to say what Bitcoin is, but I know for sure that Ripple is a security. But yeah, I mean, it's just kind of a lack of self-awareness that he would say that because Napster is a company that created this platform that could be shut down. Ripple is a company that created this, I don't even want to say it, cryptocurrency. They created a token that can be shut down. For Shem's point, actually, you made a mistake. There is no Ripple pre-mind. They just print tokens. There is no mining involved. There's no energy expenditure. So I should have called that pre-print. Pre-print is far better. But I don't really have much to add. It's just kind of a lack of self-awareness that he says Bitcoin is Napster because Bitcoin is a protocol. He can't shut it down. Bitcoin does not negotiate with anybody. It just can't. He can negotiate. Maybe he thinks that Bitcoin shouldn't negotiate, but it's just not possible or it won't happen. The thing that that Ripple guy forgets is that Bitcoin can't be negotiated with Bitcoin company. Remember that line, everyone? There is no stopping Bitcoin. Thanks, sir. You made my way, Samson. I appreciate that. Anytime you want to have trouble following anybody on your guy. All right. That is an excellent point that the Ripple CEO seems to be talking about his own project. It reminds me a lot of the current president who will also often accuse people of doing things that he does. That guy over there wears a really long red tie and he's talking about himself. It's a psychological thing. People can't see that they're doing it, but they do it all the time. Let's look at the projection. projection there it is. The exit question. Does the CEO of Ripple know the difference between Napster and BitTorrent? Yes or no, Shem Booth Spain. I don't know. No, no, no, no. He probably does, but he's just, you know, he needs one of you guys on there and have a public debate with him. Make him look bad. Let's talk about your preprint. Let's talk about your preprint. I doubt he's ever downloaded a torrent, but let's see what the rest of the panel thinks Gabriel Devon. You know, I don't know much about him, but I'm assuming that in that position, he probably does know the difference and is lying to make money. Samson Mao deciding vote is he lying? I think he knows it, just like he knows that Ripple is a security, but he's not going to say it, right? The lady Duff protest too much, moving on to issue four. China back again. A new editorial in the global time seems to take issue with China's current stance of banning Bitcoin and blocking all ICOs. With the author writing that there's an increasing belief that just saying no to Bitcoin won't be the eventual solution to the cryptocurrency issue. A more fundamental approach would be to embrace the new technology without putting the country's financial system at stake. Gabriel Devon is the editorial author correct. Should China change their stance on Bitcoin, ICOs, and cryptocurrency? You know, I never really know what's going on out of there because it's basically governments in general. China's no exception or no special case. It's just a large country with a large economy. Governments have a real pickle on their hands with Bitcoin. There's no way to fight it directly. In fact, it's a typical anti-fragile type of system that if you attack it directly, it will likely backfire. In other words, you'll have a striceland effect. More people will find out about it. More people will want to invest in it. You're putting your own credibility on the line. China does a lot of propaganda and marketing in their own country. But even so, people are relatively aware now with the internet and they don't have that much goodwill or they don't have that much trust. So really governments have a very tough time and I think that the whole confusing approach is probably their best bet. It's probably intentional to an extent. It's the natural reaction and it's probably the best reaction because by keeping markets on tenter hooks, they're going to continue to have the upper hand. Governments in general like to spread confusion, dissonance, and in society, ignorance in order to keep the upper hand and keep control over populace. I don't think that it was really ever banned. They were threats of bans and statements and there were all these different things going out. But I think they're just doing what they're doing and have a feeling that they have been consistently investing in crypto projects, Bitcoin included. I don't think that any of those funding, any of the preprints of yuan going into building mining farms or just investing in companies over there, a lot of the companies are partially stayed on. I don't think that any of that money is actually stopping or being affected by the public statements of a random deputy finance minister in Xinghua or whatever. So I think this is a meaningless article essentially. China is warming up, China is freezing. They're all over the place and every big government is going to be all over the place. You have US, you have different, because they're all set up for a totally different system that they control. And this is something that they don't control. So I think we're going to see continued confusion, continued random lashing out and random support until just the whole house of cards of government money collapses. It's going to take a few years though. I think it's a good point, Gabriel, that China really does have a lot of power around right now as they pull out of the market, get into the market, pull back out of the market. This is a good chance for them to build a position. But the other side is also true. Once they commit to Bitcoin, they lose all of that power. All of the will there won't they goes away once they're on board. So they only have a limited amount of time. They can only do this crying wolf thing. I remember I was pretty tired of China banning Bitcoin after 2013 and 14 and 15. It just kept coming back. But eventually I do think they will change their mind and they will adopt either Bitcoin or some other crypto or decriminalize it, things like that. Every lot of potential here. And I don't think they can just leave that on the table. Yeah, everyone must eventually submit to Bitcoin. That's just how it works. It's a winter take-all protocol. So either it's going to collapse in a blaze of glory and be replaced by some other even more awesome thing, which is pretty unlikely because it's a networking protocol. So China, the Communist Party, the Central Bank, PBOC, they will all submit eventually. Samson Mao, what do you think? Well, let's see. First of all, there is no ban. So I looked at the article. It also says ban. But if you search, there is actually no ban. Exchanges just shut down, right? So you can figure out what happened, but there is no official ban. There is no official stance. Other than, I think it was mentioned that Bitcoin is a commodity. People can still own it. They can trade it amongst themselves. It's not a legal tender. They can't use it to buy things in stores, actually, according to the letter of the law. But it's not ban for sale. But I think any country that wants their people to be prosperous has to keep that door open. It's like saying, you cannot have gold or you can't have silver. You need people to have these things in order for the country to be successful. China is a huge consumer of gold. They import, they buy a ton of gold every year. Even the US, you guys are going downhill. Your gold deserves their depleting. But China is stocking up on gold. So I don't see a negative stance towards Bitcoin in the long run because it is an asset. And you cannot not give people the best money. Although it is funny in the United States, they did have gold and silver banned for about 50, 60 years. They even went door to door and seized it from people during the Great Depression. You couldn't own it any more until the 70s. That's why gold is inferior to Bitcoin. Absolutely. And I wonder if China will figure that out that their vaults are full of meaningless yellow metal. Let's go to Shem Booth Spain. It is a very difficult one because as Gabriel mentioned, it is true. The governments are kind of dipping their toes but also seeing an opportunity but wanting to try to control the opportunity is like a lion that they can't tame. But they want to be able to. It is like a lion that they can't tame. And I think it is so surprising because Japan has gone so deeply into it. And it is not to say the rest of the West has not. The G7, they said it was only a month and a half ago. They kind of say blockchain, blockchain, Bitcoin is good. The ICOs were worried about that sort of thing. But I think it was 0.05% GDP Japan added through cryptocurrencies to their GDP which I thought was incredible. Being in Shibuya and traveling a lot in Japan, I have seen their attitude. They are not all into Bitcoin cash, country. Some of them are because they have just been told it is Bitcoin first of all before anyone like us has got to them and said, for me, I see, I get mixed signals from China and I don't know what to believe because I don't believe any of it. And I know that so Bitmain is a $2 billion profit making business. We are sitting here wondering whether China is not far from accepting crypto. Of course it is. Right now, there are businesses out there that are gone for the market. They are the pioneers. There is also a tendency. We know the Chinese are the most wonderful imitation. They are the masters of imitation and they have taken Bitcoin and LBTC and Bitcoin candy. There are so many forks. Maybe perhaps some of those interesting developments. I want to see an interesting tech form on an all coin and then it to reemerge in Bitcoin. So sharding on some of a new crypto that has come out. I am already speaking to people that are going to be bringing that straight to Bitcoin. There is nothing we can't import into Bitcoin. If you are a coder, you need to be getting on that GitHub. So I don't see this. I just see this mixed signals. But I think we have seen saying the president of China the other day saying, oh yes, innovation blockchain. He didn't say Bitcoin. Did he say Bitcoin, guys? No, he didn't say Bitcoin. He just said blockchain. So again, it is like people don't want to commit because they are scared. It is like, no, just take your nickers down. It will feel nice. No, I am joking. No. You know, it is that fear of commitment. But they don't realise that there is a real business opportunity. The fact of the matter is Bitcoin is compact, more Western than Eastern values. Because it is a different monetary system that we have never had on a scale like this before, it is very scary to suffer in nations. The nations that are jumping in are going to have first mover of one age. They are making significant impact on their GDP already. And any person out there with any sort of business sense will be thinking, hang on and there is an opportunity for a nation here. There is an opportunity to have more global commerce. There is an opportunity to draw wealth into our nation and to have a technology that enables the growth of their economies, which I think is only a good thing. The problem is, again, said earlier, people could do an ICO, shitcoins, this coin, that coins, it cloud is and muddies the water. People are thinking, oh yeah, we are interested in a project that is going to be the next Bitcoin. There is no offer of Bitcoin. There is one Bitcoin. It is ten years of work. There is so much people that have worked on Bitcoin, you cannot believe the human. It is the biggest fucking computing network on planet Earth and it will be for the next two to three hundred years. And once we strap AI onto it, we are going to be on a whole new level. That is layer five, layer ten. We haven't even got there yet, but the future is really really good. It took a lot of year, right? Yes, sorry about that. We don't have a tangent. That is probably what Bitcoin is doing. And for me, we do AI around our Bitcoin cash. That is what they are doing. Shem, they already announced that they want to make an AI play for hardware. They did say they are working on it. They are sick for artificial intelligence where it would be like the Amazon cloud, but you would send it your request or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it will be decentralized. No, I don't think it will be decentralized. It will be centralized. But it will be like multiple computers, so decentralized in that way. But we are in a technological arms race and it is first moved from advantage. And because there is a more precise and considered approach to building Bitcoin as opposed to just ramming it in with any other coin, because there is so much consensus. And we are going to have to do that. And that is what we are trying to build. Consensus. We are trying to distribute whatever the word consent. But everyone together agree. This token or cryptocurrency is worth this, my friend. But that kind of shared agreement is what gives Bitcoin its value. And that is what we are upholding and protecting and growing and developing. And like you say, just as a painting, sometimes the end result of the painting is not like how you perceived it to be. It grows. It organically grows. The greatest cities in the world are not planned from the ground up. From the ground above. They are planned organically. Paris. You look from above. It looks very messy as a city. But it is grown organically in a very organic way. So the most efficient ways to get to different points around the city of organically grown. So sometimes having something organically rather than controlling it for a bad intention is a better thing, particularly when it is a technology. Because if you imagine we were making say, for instance, a nuclear based technology in our intentions were bad, we can easily understand as clever intelligent people that the end result would be bad. So if the end result of one's intentions in cryptocurrency isn't good, then as we see from people's actions, then we can clearly see that they are probably not going to be good for everyone else. Exit question. Is it possible for China to allow Bitcoin to flourish without putting their own centralized bank and centralized control of money at risk? Are you going to add a Samsung bow? Thank you. Well, the easiest way to answer that is honey badger don't care. It doesn't really matter. The good thing about Bitcoin exchanges in China being closed down are that we see less variance. It's a huge market mover every time there is a headline and it's hyped up. It's banned. It was banned again. And that's just, it's better not to have that right in a way. So I see that as a plus point, but you know, it doesn't really matter if they allow or don't allow or they don't care because in the end, you know, it's just sound money. A lot of people think that Bitcoin will kill the banks. That's actually not true. It only killed the banks if they don't, if they don't adapt, right? If your customers want a service, then you have to grow and offer them that service. If you deny them that service, then yes, you're going to die. But it's not the Bitcoin doesn't need to kill anybody. Everyone can participate if they choose to participate. I also think it's worth going back to the point that Shem was making that the governments are tipping their, they're dipping their feet into Bitcoin. They're giving it a try. And it's interesting to see how long they can do that before they have to buy some and additional things. They are trying it out, but we'll have to see how it goes. Shem Booth, Spain. Is it possible, like Gabriel said, for China to allow their banks to continue and have Bitcoin at the same time? Yes, because yes, because Bitcoin is compatible with both Western and Eastern values. And remember that my wife is Asian, okay? So, you know, I'm very familiar with a different way of looking at things and a different approach to things. And I remember she said to me, she said, you guys in the West, you want to bulldoze everything. We in the East, we go with the flow. Life is a lot easier than that approach. You guys just want to punch through the middle of it. I think what China's worried about is it bringing in stability. They've got a big responsibility. They've got a billion people over there. And they're trying to make their country better in their own individual way. And you've got to remember that our perception of their nation is perhaps a lot different from their perception of their situation. So, they perhaps may be approaching it from a protectionist point of view, which is understandable. It's like a juvenile walking towards a beautiful berry bush and not sure whether when she grabs the berries, whether she's going to be pricked by a thing. But when she tests the berries, she realizes it's better, it's tastier and it's much better than the other stuff. So, I think once people try Bitcoin, once people choose, you know, I'm here in business deals. Yeah, it was a football player that was brought for a couple of hundred thousand dollars in Bitcoin. And they wanted to get this football player ball over to the football team quickly. You know, businessmen will meet in within an hour, they'll shake hands and Bitcoin was exchanging the deal was done. So, you know, people, if I wanted to move for a couple of million quid, and you know, this business deals occurring, and you know, there's a legal process doing that, and Bitcoin can help do that very, very, very easily. And more on what I was going to say earlier is that the governments have actually valued Bitcoin now. The Federal Reserve from the United States recently said that the value of Bitcoin was $1,800. And I know everyone was disappointed by this because it's so much below what we are. But the other thing is that they used to say the value of Bitcoin was zero. So, $1,800 is a lot more than zero. And they said zero for years and years and years. So, it's shocking for them to put any kind of a positive valuation on it at all. But let's move on to predictions or a story of the week Gabriel, Devon, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Well, I'd first like to answer the exit question on the China. Oh yeah, as you asked it. Just give me on that. I just want to quickly say that it's not possible for any country to maintain centralized control of money in their borders anymore. They will all lose. So, whether you allow it to flourish or whether you fight it, you're still going to lose. It doesn't matter what you do. And moving on to the story of the week. The story of the week is from today. A lot of people on the chat mentioning it. I was tipped off to the existence of this problem by Coco, the ape child on Twitter. Coco is awesome. Yeah, Coco is cool. He's got a great sense of humor and I've got a picture of it's more it's more like Chaka from land of the lost or maybe his Chaka's little brother or something. Anyways, very similar to Chaka. But yeah, there was an outage. The visa network in Europe was out this afternoon in Europe and for hours. So, most of the transactions I feel like we're not going through. So, just another feather in the hat of Bitcoin that's just going strong. I think we've had about an hour and a half of outage in the last nine years. And we haven't had any outage in five. So, pretty good indicator. So, the visa is more expensive and doesn't have the bandwidth of what lightning network, you know, can do theoretically. It's not as lightning we'll definitely can't shut down as long as you have internet. So, the visa network has all the big data centers and everything that it depends on. That's far, far more fragile. It's also really easy to attack. So, after a card visa, for example, were genuinely, you know, really major competitors and they didn't want to sort of secretly doing back deals together to have a duopoly. I bet you there would be a heck of a lot more outages and people would start looking. And I wouldn't be surprised if there are some attacks on payment networks in order to shunt a little value toward Bitcoin eventually. And they're saying in the chat that Dogecoin has better uptime than Visa. So, I think the last question is, is there a lot of other things that you can do with the visa network in Russia? Several people responded in the comments saying that they use their visa fine in Russia. So, I don't know if that story was incorrect or if it's just hit or miss, but I just want to issue that correction. Samson Mao, your story of the week or a prediction? The story of the week, there was a launch of a new cryptocurrency or rebranded cryptocurrency called Bitcoin Core. That's pretty big news and it's pretty interesting too. I think this guys are doing a good job. And it's a serious project or is it a job? Oh, it's serious. It's been on TV. I hear lots of people talking about it already. Tell us all about it. I want to hear about it. I don't actually know what you're all about. Tell me. Well, there is this new altcoin. It's called Bitcoin Core. The ticker is BTCC, not company. That's a bit confusing. So, there's a coin. And a lot of people are talking it up. I've seen it on CNBC fast money and other outlets. It's getting a huge massive amounts of promotion. Well, it doesn't kill babies, right? As long as it doesn't kill babies, I'm in favor. Isn't Bitcoin Core BTCC coin a fork of Bitcoin classic, which is the original Bitcoin cash fork before they hard forked to introduce like a new address format or something like that. You got it. Oh, man. This is getting like the English royal family here. All the different chains. It's inception. Yeah, yeah, because Bitcoin classic, you know, they kept some hash power on the old chain when Bitcoin cash did their first hard fork. And now they've done another one. I don't know if there's a third one in between, but they've done another one and they added some features. I'm pretty sure they ported them over from Bitcoin. And the Bitcoin classic team basically said, oh, those we agree with those changes too. They also hard forked and they call theirs very trollingly Bitcoin core. People in the chat are saying that it's the Bitcoin fork. So like inflation, but I'm not seeing that because there's still 21 million bitcoins and there's still 21 million Bitcoin. So I don't see it as inflation. I see them as separate different projects, but let's go to Shem Booth Spain for a story of the week. Still muted or a prediction. Ladies and gentlemen, I am so inspired because after, you know, I am good study of our friend, Dr Craig, right? He's an interesting character. And I was just so, you know, when I saw the 32 megabit brought your codes and all that stuff, we just really kind of just is unlimited kind of aspiration. He's like, I will dominate this planet. My coin. If you don't like my coin, I've got more money than your country and I'll take my fucking technology and I'll ram it down your country's throat. And it's just like, I was just like, guys, we've got up our game. Everyone who wants Bitcoin to succeed, you know, as has really got, has got to become more active. You know, I'm passionate about what they believe in something. Don't be apathetic. You know, do you believe in innovation? Do you believe in making the world better? Do you believe in something? Do something? Get in. If you're programmer, we need, we need, I need 10,000 programmers on the fucking GitHub of Bitcoin right now. So that we can nail this. We can win this man. We are winning it. I haven't been on your show. Thomas for four years. Is it four years or two years? One of the two, right? Been a little while. Been a little while, right? But I mean, and a lot of the things that we spoke in the early days have come to pass the growth of the ecosystem, the growth of the price, the growth of the users. It's all about the users. You know, these guys think they're making a foot too big, make a bit, you know, they're going to make their spaceship faster than everyone else's. But if there's no users, it doesn't matter because it's all about the users. So that's my point. And I really want people to be passionate about it. And, and you know, I really mean that because we can really make a change for the better right? And we're really winning this now. And we need, you know, this, I mean, this is the space with the greatest minds in the industry. I in the world currently are in this space. They're not in retail, baby. They're in crypto accounts. They're alive from a Bitcoin blockchain. They're not in some other shit coin blockchain. They're in Bitcoin blockchain. So I want everyone to really think about that because I get so excited and passionate. I'm a kid of the eighties, you know, and I get so passionate that the, the, we can read this is going to change. This is already changing the world. It's faster. It's smarter money. It does. It moves quicker around the world. It doesn't weigh heavy in your pocket. And once we get it really rocking ladies and gentlemen, it's going to be able to scale to billions. It would be a space, commerce, global, you know, once hey, I get wrapped game on and we need as many coders hands on deck. I don't want Twitter trolls. I don't want Twitter people out there fighting tweet war. I want coders out on the GitHub of Bitcoin core, not call core or anyone else. And I just really want us to engage a bit more aggressively because the people that we're up against here, they're ambition knows no bounds and they're completely driven by a completely different rules set, you know, and that's that's my opinion. Everyone that knows me knows I'm passionate about this. I believe that this is good for planet earth, good for the species. This is the greatest innovation to money that has happened within the last what 400 years. Why you laughing? So I mean, become. I just gave you a divine are you in a hospital? I saw that too. No, it's not a hospital. I actually literally just like had my backpack hanging up here. This is my office. So no, I'm not in the hospital, but I'm feeling a little no, actually, I feel fine. Can I ask a question to Samson if that's alright. Sure. All right. Go ahead. We've so much. We've so much aggressive Bitcoin cash PR, you know, the whole shebang. You know, doesn't this get you guys over a blockchain pump? Does it go right? Do you know what we've got competitors out there? We're we're going to witness. I mean, I hope everyone in that Monday morning, I sit there on their coffees because I would come into that office and I'll be like, boys, now it's war. I think it comes off the table. Get your sandwich out your mouth. Come and see it. Well, we actually don't have that many people working on the on the protocol now, but I think in general, the trend is that everybody is a coder is energized by some of the drama, right? I think there was a time when it was really dragging and demoralizing, but now there's a big community. There's lots of people educating people educating the general masses. There's Jimmy song with his, with his training program out there and getting those developers that you're talking about, right? Picking people up, training them up. But I think where it is, you know, where a lot of people are, you know, living the cyberpunk mall, right? Cyberpunk's right code. They're, you know, sitting down and building stuff. No, a lot of people they're packing on lightning are really motivated because they had a lot of fun thrown at them saying, oh, this is vaporware. It's never going to happen. It's like five years away. And they're just motivated to prove, prove the naysayers wrong and the tech and even the community. Everyone's energized at this point. I think the community is starting to use lightning. We see, we have a store, the blockchain store and we sell stuff on main net. And we see a huge spike of transactions happening every weekend. And I think that's just people like you guys at home that, you know, you have a day job. Well, maybe you guys don't have a day job. But people that finished their day job and on the weekends, they're, you know, experimenting with this new tech and trying to figure out what they can do with it. Excellent stuff. Thanks so much, Samson. And thanks so much, Shem for all of your energy and enthusiasm. I think we all need some more of that. And thank you, Gabriel for being a guest. And thanks to everyone at home. We're going to run towards the end of this show. Just a quick note. If you're in the Las Vegas area. And you'd want to go to kind of an after party for the Bitcoin group. We're having a Bitcoin meetup for the Las Vegas Bitcoin Las Vegas at Bitcoin Las Vegas.org. It's tonight at Jackson's bar and grill 620 6,020 West Flamingo. And it looks like a fun bar. It's a green Bay Packer bar. And the Jackson is actually Andrew Jackson. They had his picture outside allegedly. There's a Bitcoin ATM. So I'm going to check that out. And we're just going to hang out, have some foods and drinks. So if you're in the Las Vegas area, check that out. You can also subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com slash WCN 17 patrons are donating more than $70 a month. Subscribe with whatever you want per month and help us support making these shows. If you'd like to donate Bitcoin, you could donate now to the address on your screen. Small amounts, large amounts, it doesn't matter. And that's about it for the show. Thanks so much for watching. Go nights, go warriors. Quite a lot of great sports on these days. I saw the solo movie yesterday. It wasn't that bad. Kind of a Star Wars theme chase scene. Thanks to a Venshin MTGOW MGTOW who just sent us a $10 tip. Asked us if we've used the Eclare Lightning Wallet. I haven't used it yet. I think it's on Android. I have an iPhone. I'll ask a quickly Gabriel. Have you tried it out yet? Not yet. I'm dying to try lightning wallets, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks. I'm sure you. I'm sure you. I love it. I thought it was really good. All right. So it's pretty good. It's able to try out. And I think it's on the Android. Like Gabriel said, thanks to check your six for the $2 tip. And yeah, we'll talk about everything else is going on in the chat very soon. And we'll be back soon until next time. Bye.