The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Theo Goodman from Hasse online. Good evening, everyone. Gabriel D. Vine from Future Rant. That's Gabriel D. Vine. Thank you very much for having me. Tom Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Thanks for having me. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, Coinbase Drama Continues. Just weeks off of their IRS audit, Coinbase is being rocked again this week facing dual lawsuits from their customers. One is suing the IRS saying that their request is too broad. The other is far more serious with claimants alleging that Coinbase processed more than eight million dollars in stolen funds from cryptocurrency, allowing the founder to flee to China with a bag full of money. Theo Goodman, your thoughts on Coinbase's ongoing drama? Well, it looks like this is just the beginning of it, unfortunately, for them. I think the most damning one so far is this cryptocurrency thing. This is really pretty damning. Now, I'm not a lawyer, disclaimer, but it doesn't look great. They asked where to get it from and he said, oh, yeah, it's from cryptocurrency and a little bit of my early mining stuff. But they didn't do anything. So they did ask, but it seems like they didn't take any action about maybe saying, hey, that sounds a little bit shady. Could you give us some more information? It's Coinbase they have to go along with regulations and they knew that. That's why they asked, but I've heard of people getting their accounts canceled, them having a lot of trouble for a lot less and giving much more detailed answers than what I think that I've seen so far out of this cryptocurrency thing and they've had a lot of trouble. So that part puzzles me a little bit, but it doesn't look like this is the end of the troubles for cryptocurrency. It could even be just the beginning. Maybe there are some other cases brewing that we don't know about yet or maybe some people see this one are like, hey, I have another case too. So we don't know what's going on exactly with that. But yeah, let's see what they do. I'm not surprised in the sense that it's Coinbase. They're going along with regulations. This is what you get with that. Good bad or evil. That's up for you to decide, but if you use that service, then you can expect these kind of things to happen. It was a lot of money and Coinbase stood to make a substantial fee on the $8 million Gabriel D. Vaughn. Well, yeah, they were charging about 1%, so $8 million, what's that $80,000? $80,000. So I'm not surprised at all. I agree with Theo that if you choose to do business in the crypto space and wish to comply with government regulations, this is true for even. Just any tech company, but especially in the crypto space and even more especially in the Bitcoin space, you will tend to run a foul of complicating factors like this, not just being vulnerable to private individuals, legal actions, etc. But also your vulnerability to governments. Just as Ripple was fined, hundreds of thousands of dollars because of some tiny noncompliance with money, transmittal, statutes of some type, all these businesses that are working to bridge the gap between the legacy financial infrastructure and Bitcoin are really putting themselves in a precarious position. I would like to sound a clarion call to investors to very much watch out for companies on that edge to really do due diligence, make sure that they've done their research, that they've done their loyering up in order to craft their business model and craft contracts in order to avoid many of these incredible complications, some of which are literally totally unavoidable. And I think this is one of those examples of unavoidable problems and why I'm much more excited by decentralized projects than centralized companies because they sidestepped these issues. Government regulation, statutes, as well as laws will always be behind the curve. And the more time passes, the faster technology moves. In other words, it's not a constant rate of change, change, change, change. It's changed between yesterday and today is less than the change between today and tomorrow. Because of that acceleration, legal ramifications will continue to fall more behind, not less. So the divide between practical laws that work for people in general and totally untenable bullshit will really grow hugely. And we're going to have a lot more untenable bullshit and we're going to have a lot less functional technological laws as time goes on. And I think we're somewhat at a tipping point with Bitcoin over the last few years. So I think we're going to see a lot of issues like this. We're going to see a lot of centralized companies collapsing under the weight of regulation and the costs of doing business in the general public infrastructure of legality that the government thinks it's providing us, but it's actually constraining us. And I think this is inevitable. And it's also going to be interesting to see our society and culture as well, transition into more of a paradigm of Kavayat-Empor, which we were actually chatting about before today's show that eventually government won't be able to step in. And everyone's just going to have to learn to watch their back and do their research rather than just jump in with both feet and hope the government bails them out later. Now remember, Gabe, with the Ripple find many people saw it as a blessing as that after they paid the fine, Ripple was good to go with their business. Do you think Coinbase is in a similar situation after they've aligned themselves with the IRS? Does business continue as usual? Or is there such a huge backlash against the privacy implications? Or do people just not care? What do you think of that? As far as the backlash among the customers, you mean? The customers? I mean, just generally, presumably there's a slap on the risk coming from the IRS. They set up this data link. They get all the data they want in the future. And then afterwards, there's a relationship, Coinbase and the IRS. And all the things that Tone has been saying, and we've all been saying about Coinbase being a KYC institution, a bank of Bitcoin. All of that becomes kind of entrenched. Do people say, do they after that do they go, I don't like Coinbase? Or they're just like, well, it's like a bank? Yeah, I think that over the long haul, and this is not a year or two, I'm talking maybe five or more years, people will lose their trust in all such institutions because all centralized institutions are honeypots in the age of leaks. We're in the cyber warfare age. We're in the cyber security. We have the Yahoo hack again, which may throw the sale off. Probably should have been an issue this week, but we're busy. But yes, certainly, in a contact. And the Verizon deal is now very much in question. This is the second major hack for Yahoo in the last month or so. Right. And we're still in this sort of hangover period of the massive centralized companies and institutions. Now, it's going to take decades for us to really ride that whole thing out into a network society. So I think we're going to see some, crypto will be one of the early spaces where the in feasibility of centralized institutions will become so obvious because of straight up hacks. So I think it's basically until Coinbase. And I think all of these centralized institutions will experience massive hacks. It's conceivable that they could get hacked so much that public attitude is irrelevant because they all just become insolvent and go out of business. It's been funny with the Yahoo hack. One of the comedy programs was highlighting how Yahoo is still warning their users about how not to get hacked. How you should have a good password and you should have to affect. You, the user should do all these things. But how do you protect yourself with the centralized institution, which has all of your data, which itself gets hacked by something that you have just absolutely no control over. So it was really absurd. But I also wanted to say that I am impressed with the alleged balls on big verne from cryptocurrency here, moving $8 million through Coinbase. I would never think of that. Just as if I was the dread pirate Roberts, I would never live in San Francisco just a few blocks away from the people trying to bust me. But these are interesting coincidences of history. Tony, what do you think about this exciting Coinbase news? Well, just a quick comment on Yahoo. I have like multiple Yahoo accounts of Patents since 2004. My fan is now in absolute jeopardy. Not even 2000. I think of Patents since like 98 or something like that. It's been a while. And I'm just so annoyed. Every other day I have to like click OK. And there are messages that you need to pay and you have to protect yourself. And I'm like, guys, I don't care. I don't have any Bitcoin associated with this. I don't care. Can half me owe you one? I know. I've been refusing to give them my phone number for years. And now it looks like I'm on the right side of that one. So right. No, they got my phone number from like one of my accounts because there was like a stretch of time where they literally would lock you out and you would not be able to get to your emails. I have like three email accounts with them and I really needed one of them. And I have no choice but to give them my phone number. I was so like pissed. And I think like after like a month or two, they removed that policy and they allowed you to skip it. But there was like a stretch of time. Maybe it was a week or whatever. I don't know how long that's been. It must have been a fantasy fall and baseball off seasons. They must have forced me to give them my phone number. Like Yahoo is just, it is just so frustrating. The only reason I have it is because I have it since 1998 and there's just, there are certain emails that I get from there that I just don't have a choice. You know how you can usually forward your emails to another account. I have at least one where I cannot do that with and we're not going to talk about it. I think we've already discussed some of the things that I do that can't be done. So I'm on some email lists that people don't know that I'm unknown. So I can't like email them and say, hey, can you switch by email? So I have these situations where I'm literally stuck with Yahoo the rest of my life anyway. Back to the real issue at hand. Coinbase. I'm ignoring the some random guy suing the US government that never works unless I'm kind of high profile case and this is not. I do like his background though. He's a class action lawyer. I mean, he seems like if you're going to organize a class, you've got, you want a guy like that. Boy, the one suing the IRS. Yeah, the one suing the IRS. His background, I'm not sure like what level he's at, but he's a lawyer. He's a Coinbase customer and he specializes in class action lawsuits. So if this was a way to start a class action, maybe about them not warning people on the tax issue, I'm not sure which direction it would go. No, but no, but no, but no, I'm talking about the guy that's actually trying to sue IRS, not trying to sue Coinbase. I'd have to look it up. I might be confused. Right. No, yeah, I'm just saying the guy that suing the IRS is irrelevant, right? The guy that suing Coinbase, that's the one that I find very interesting and that's awesome. And the fact that there's now two firms involved and the fact that he's like urging people to join in this class action lawsuit against Coinbase. And I think they have a legitimate case here and not just Paul Vernon. I think they have a legitimate case in that Coinbase didn't like help people with their taxes, didn't inform them enough, didn't, didn't provide their summaries. But people weren't aware that every little transaction became relevant. And I'm not a Coinbase user, maybe they were doing this, but I'm assuming that they weren't. Now I love the idea of cryptocurrency from the grave taking down Coinbase. Like that is just so Bitcoin that I can't think of anything else like it. And cryptocurrency was always, always never funded, always in Florida, always kind of this altcoin exchange. And then everyone kind of saw Coinbase drifting into Crypti's business now with Ethereum and other altcoins that they're going to sell directly. It is an incredible irony. You can't make up the ironies. Like now literally, you're right, Coinbase is now becoming cryptocurrency, being sued by former cryptocurrency users. Yeah. If only there would be another lucky seven coin that Coinbase would add to their exchange would lead to them getting hacked, cryptocurrency style allegedly, and it would all come full circle. Maybe Ethereum is the one or the Dow. Oh man, yeah, that really would, that would be awesome. But okay, so on that front, I see big issues for Coinbase. And look, they do have a legitimate case. I mean, what else can I say? And Coinbase is going to be in serious trouble. I mean, it will force the regulators to do, I see it's like a double-edged sword, right? So by them suing Coinbase over it, they're inviting more regulators in to put more pressure on Coinbase to put more pressure on their users. Again, this is so big quiet, right? It's screaming for regulation that is going to come back and bite you in the butt. Dave is laughing now. So now, to something that Gabriel said, right? So you said this is why you're in support of more decentralized stuff. And I'm not sure that's a fair statement because if this was decentralized, then Paul Worden would have easily cashed everything out, right? Then there would be no chance at the losses, right? Right. So it's a double-edged sword. And it would probably be a little more inefficient. So the gorilla in the room is government in regulation. So if you're now going to yell at Coinbase for complying with regulation, but not complying with regulation enough, again, this is like a dog chase at its tail, right? I'm not sure what the end goal is other than everyone just wants money and they don't care where it comes from, right? I mean, they just... That's the correct conclusion. So yeah, so I don't have much else to add. I will be watching this story. I hope someone keeps reporting on it and provides more feedback on it. I would love to see this go to court. That would be hilarious. Like Paul Worden would call in from China through Skype and be a witness. That would be great. Even just the idea that you could move $8 million through Coinbase. I know people that you get a Coinbase account, you can't buy $50 worth of coins without putting in more identity these days. But it's just mind-boggling that that was even a plan or an idea or he didn't go to local bitcoins and meet some guy with a suitcase in an alley. But let's move on to the exit question. That was $8 million. It's hard to move. I mean, when you have an institution that trusts you and remember, this was at the time, this is before Coinbase realized that cryptocurrency was doing an exit scam. I mean, they have no idea. Crypts looks so dirty from the beginning. I remember every time you traded there, it was like, will I get my coins out before the site shuts down every time it falls? They might have looked dirty, right? But I mean, considering that Coinbase has now become in cryptocurrency, Coinbase might have been sort of, oh, you've made $8 million on shitcoins? That sounds reasonable. We are going into this business. That doesn't seem shady at all. It's going to be great in the movie version of this. You see Brian and his partners and they're like, the cryptocurrency guy has $8 million. Go ahead and process it. Figure out how. But anyway, here's another irony, which is totally Bitcoin. Someone at the cryptocurrency office, like Brian or whatever, they're sitting there and then Paul Verne is like, hey, so I'm thinking of cashing out my profits from cryptocurrency. We've made $8 million over the last two years and then they're all sitting there in their boardroom. They have no idea that Paul Verne is exit scamming, right? So they think those are like the profits over a year and a half or something with very little overhead and they're like, no, we should get into this business, right? So while Paul Verne is exit scamming, they're changing their entire deck to now become cryptocurrency and then like, well, thanks to the money it disappears and now he just gave them the exit plan and now they're like, oh, shit, that was an exit scam. That wasn't like the profits. Uh-oh, spoiler, Coinbase exit scam in the future. No one wants that. Got some funds in there myself. But let's move on to the next issue with exit question. The drawback will subside and Coinbase will endure. Yes or no, they are good. So. Uh, Coinbase will endure. They have a lot of lawyer power and they're very creative in figuring out how to comply and how to get everything done right. And if it comes down to it and they're losing money and they're down for the count before the technical knockout, then they can always just follow another example. Instead of BFX tokens, you can just make Coinbase tokens and there you go. The prophecy of becoming cryptocurrency is a little bit closer. If only everyone could sell fee shares. Gabriel, Devon. I think Coinbase will go out of business in 2021. Five years, tone vase. I'll take the under on that, Gabriel. I'll take the under. I don't think they're lasting that long. I don't know how much money they have, but lawyers are expensive. And getting sued is expensive. Yeah. Now they have to comply with IRS. They're going to lose users over this. They're in San Francisco. I mean, the Unicoin is doing what they're doing out of India with apparently much better developers and at like 2% of the costs of what Coinbase is spending. Now I think they're done. I don't think they're going to get another round of funding. I don't see how they're going to survive. I'll take the under on 2021. The fancy office in the sky in FIDI. The answer is they'll last until the money runs out. Until the money runs out. Moving on to issue two. Issue two, open Bizarre raises $3 million. The decentralized marketplace open Bizarre raised an additional round of funding this week from major players such as Blue Yard Capital and Dreson Horowitz and Union Square Ventures. The marketplace which started as dark market and was seen as a potential distributed Silk Road has transformed itself into a distributed eBay without fees. A truly flat marketplace free of influence? Gabriel, DeVon, will they achieve their dreams? Will open Bizarre fundamentally transform the market structure of commerce? I think the answer is yes, believe it or not. I really like this new hybrid business model that's been kind of percolating for a few years now where a private company decides to create or contribute to or in the case of open Bizarre sort of rework and a very sketchy existing project. It creates an open permissionless open source platform and spend a lot of their time creating this platform with the hope of in the future. It's a little risky but with the hope in the future of providing a value ad services on top of that. The idea is the platform will actually provide most of the value to users but for the actual company it makes more sense for the profit model to piggyback off of services that are offered on top of that platform. Two other big names to mention in that paradigm are Made Safe and Blockstream. Made Safe has its own interesting platform that they've been working hard on. It's very promising in my opinion and I don't know when it's going to go live hopefully next year sometime. They'll have their own proof of resource cryptocurrency that will be an interesting alternative to Bitcoin. Then Blockstream of course works on Bitcoin. They are assuming their business model is also, hey, you need a special crazy plugin to work for your browser or for your client rather. For your wallet client, you want us to make a special thing or you want us to flesh out something that's not existing in the protocol and you want it for your business. So you can kick down and fund that development and then everybody will be able to use it. Everybody wins. You get to use it first. It's really interesting. I think it may prove to be functional and profitable for these businesses. I think OB1 took a conservative path and that was a smart business decision as opposed to leaving the name Dark Market. They changed it because of course OB1, the company, will be releasing version two of OpenBizar and at that point it will support Tor and onion routing as built in. At that point, OpenBizar will replace all of the existing centralized illegal darknet markets. That will be a huge use case for this system that they probably won't be able to capitalize on on a business level. But it will still push the system and actually be robust for the platform because there will be that many more users. Everybody using it will then see all those things on the platform. I don't believe that OB1 will have any ability to censor listings or users or anybody else. So it should be quite interesting to see what happens when version two comes out. But they were very smart in being conservative with their version one and not supporting that and just getting a little bit of attention and ironing out all the wrinkles and really making a functional system which appears to me they definitely got in hand with the current versions of OpenBizar. So I think congratulations to them for convincing some other people to buy into their vision of the company and I wish them all the best. I think it's really awesome and I do think that eventually it will replace eBay. It's going to take a few more years. As you've laid it out there Gabe I think it's an incredibly clever plan to roll out their strategy in that way and to build the tools of commerce that can be used both for the dark markets and for the replacement no fee eBay. I think it's a very interesting idea to try to eBay made all of its money off of fees in the marketplace. OpenBizar wants to make its money off of like you say value added services the way I look at it. The main problems with OpenBizar you have to download an application and to my knowledge you have to run the application at all times to keep your store online. I know there's probably hosted stores like that things like that I think are the kind of value that OpenBizar the company will add as well as other people offering hosted stores and then once they plug in the writ of the download and put that in the browser I think they reduce the barriers there because right now those are barriers but it could be very interesting and I do congratulate them on the new round and especially for being able as Gabe said because when they first raised the round we said okay and Jason Horowitz is kind of investing in an FU to the people on this dark market thing. They were like well we kind of don't like the drug war we want to say FU but now it's changed it's become more of this eBay thing FU to eBay but at the same time like Gabe said the tools are there they're open source and who knows what people will use them for. Theo Goodman are you ready with your comments? I'm ready OB1 you're our only hope. I think that it's a cool project let's see where it goes and if the next one has tour and onion routing that's an interesting development. I think the best part is that a lot of the stuff is going to be open source so anyone can use it you could fork it and use it for things. There's still a lot to these illegal marketplaces for example escrow and message boards and other things. I guess that could also be somehow added into the open bizarre client at some point and somehow maybe you could build one with it and etc etc. I don't know if you could but that's a lot of the stuff that these marketplaces have to in addition to just being a kind of eBay for whatever you want. So I do know that there are people trying to use open bizarre I know that it's not super active right now but you know it's a it's a cool project and I'm glad that it's open source for people can use it and I don't know how they're going to make money but let's see if they can make money somehow. I agree with you a lot of the strong points of the system are the distributed moderation system even though that's complicated to build and the distributed reputation system even though that's complicated to build. So if they can pull off either one of those by separating them from the dark marketplace but still having a place where you could keep tally on your dark marketplace seller you know agnostic you don't have to know what they sold to judge that they're a good seller. So I'm going to go and raise your thoughts on open bizarre. Alright so I will I'll start with I don't consider open bizarre scam which is probably saying a lot shocking from toe up the headlines. I mean they didn't tokenize they didn't they're using Bitcoin they're trying to do this decentralized marketplace and Brian Hoffman I don't have a problem with Brian Hoffman. He's still against tokenization so hopefully he can keep that up. My questions on open bizarre are just I've never used it I'm not sure why I would use it like I don't even use eBay anymore these days right. Also everything I see on eBay I don't see like individual sellers on eBay anymore all I see is stores or all I see stores I sound like eBay was in the in the first three years three to five years right when it was literally auction. I always go to Amazon everything I need the cheapest prices 90% of the time the cheapest price is always on Amazon occasionally like if I need a piece of electronic it's on like five big or new egg and most of the time I don't even buy it I just want the convenience. Amazon has all my information they have my credit card I just go buy it from them whenever I need something and it's on sale and it's very simple. So my only issues with open bizarre I'm not sure how they're going to get the little before the door like momentum and you know what I mean right critical mask I'm not sure how they're going to do it especially if they're focusing on I mean they're focusing on legitimate markets but I don't think if they control I if someone is using it as like an illicit like a silk road kind of store. They could control it through their official client or through their website but you could just go to the open bizarre servers or whatever and download whatever you want and I think it could run an open bizarre server and you could host whatever transactions you want and then you know from there I don't work. You know what I mean maybe I don't see open bizarre being useful at all until Bitcoin becomes the mainstream currency right and we're years away from that right so if open this is the chicken and the egg we need a marketplace like open bizarre or something where people are trading Bitcoin to make it a mainstream currency right I mean we need silk road or we need something like this right but but again right if if Amazon and eBay start accepting Bitcoin that becomes the same thing I mean now open bizarre is competing with Amazon and eBay on fees but because of those fees by Amazon and eBay that they're collecting they're able to provide all these services to you right but die what equal like cost of a service and account not distribution again I'm like it's been a long day mediation in case something goes wrong and all this stuff so I'm not I'm not sure like I'm not sure there there's a business they are and I understand they're doing it for the people and that might last and at the moment it's still a little complicated you got a host your own story you got a download stuff but it's hard for me to comment that it's I've never been an eBay seller I've only been an eBay buyer I've never been an Amazon seller I think I've only returned like one or two things ever to Amazon and it's always like a pain like if I'm buying anything on Amazon that's more than like $25 worth of an item I make sure it's going to be something that I'm probably not going to return it just happened to me I went cheap and I bought what do you call my can extension for your USD sticks it's like you know the USD thing that turns the one USD port into like four I have I need it four wasn't enough for me I needed an extension for eight of them I decided to go cheap and bought one from nine bucks instead of buying one for 27 bucks so obviously it doesn't work like you came from China and I'm like you know what I'm not even going to return it my fault I'm an idiot I bought something worth nine dollars when I know the the real value of it is $25 and this is why it came to my house and it doesn't work I'm not going to go through a trouble returning the damn thing all right well pro tip tone Amazon so good sometimes they'll just give you the money back without making your return it I don't know we'll see so I I'm very I don't have a bathing bath to say about open to Zara I don't have anything good to say about it either I'm like totally neutral on it I I'll be like the last person to use it so I'll just wait and see what happens so if I have to put on it I I don't give them I don't think they're going to survive I just don't I don't think the world really needs them yet and can they last 10 years I thought the world maybe needs them I have no idea I I like the way they're set up to survive I like the open source aspect I like the server aspect as Gabe was saying dark net people could adopt this software as their own they could make their own marketplaces kind of as we speculated that after the Bitcoin reward dies off it might be worth malware authors might continue to mine Bitcoin so they could continue to get paid for ransomware they wouldn't be making their own marketplaces they would be vendors just like anybody else selling their you know boxes and perfumes and whatever one one last comment so let me tell you the worst possible thing right the worst possible thing especially since they just got money from a 16z think that's Anderson or let's right that's what they got money from and and they're go and I think it's the same company that's doing these I this ICO fund they're putting together so if open bizarre is forced to tokenize that would be the equivalent of in 2000 Amazon and eBay forcing people to go out and buy Amazon stock to then use Amazon stock to buy things from Amazon well and I think because they got the million dollars already they didn't have to tokenize and then now I mean honestly I'm a little surprised that they got the additional three million but as you said Tote they now don't have to tokenize I could see a world very much where you have to buy open bizarre coin and you have to put open bizarre coin in your wallet to have your store run and you have to pay for all your purchases and it's this additional layer exactly what you're saying but the reason to put the additional layer so they can own the coin and print a bunch of them and sell them which if they're getting regular venture capital they don't have to so I okay so a few more years of no tokenization for those of this are it all right it's just a few points and I real but so I think that's this idea of creating a coin to run the thing so open bizarre creating a coin and then forcing people to use that point to buy stock that's the same as Netflix forcing you to buy their stock only to then use this stock to purchase movies one at a time so this is the model that all the ICOs are pitching this is the ethereum model and this is all the other ICO models which I think is insane the other thing look three million that's not a lot of money I mean don't forget freaking the 21 guys got a hundred million or whatever right coin base got a hundred million but these are probably we're going we're going to promise and this is this is a shocking little dark markets getting three I know but look considering how much these other companies got that are going to fail and we know they are going to fail and they got a hundred million and we're going crazy that they just got three million come on that's not how it's about how you spend the money I think you could spend it in a year if you're in a hurry or you could spend it in three years if you want to go slow we'll see how it goes moving on to the next issue so I load the screen share issue three the war on cash Australia is floating the idea of removing the hundred dollar note this week allegedly to fight illegal activities and tax evasion Europe is phasing out the 500 India recently removed the 500 and 1000 rupee notes as we discuss in our next story then Venezuela is also removing the hundred will this spread to America is it good for Bitcoin tone base hey can we combine those two stories I know it's we kind of will and we do but good you can talk about the money aspect and and then we'll just talk about Venezuela in general for the the fourth one okay um or okay that's fine all right so the money aspect so um when you this was coming and I've I've I've written about this for a while this was obvious uh government still like cash I repeat the same thing on the show but you know there's always new listeners all repeated again there are three reasons the government wants to eliminate cash and it has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism um and um so the first reason is the government was to have full control of monetary policy they want to be able to set any kind of interest rate that they like um and you can't do negative interest rates without um well we're having physical currency right so they can literally slowly take away your money while sitting at the bank because it's only at the bank the second reason the government wants to eliminate your currency is they can't be a bank run you are eliminating a bank run because there is no bank to go to to withdraw your physical dollars um so the the possibility of a bank run everyone rushing into the bank it disappears the pictures of people standing in line at ATM machines to withdraw $20 for 20 euros like what happened in Greece um the pictures in Greece were the same as the picture of the great depression um that visual aspect of it also disappears and the final reason and the most important reason is because in the eyes of the government um they um everyone's a taxidator right and they think that the reason why this government the government have not solved all of our problems is because um we are all tax cheats and none of us are paying our taxes now let me quickly share my screen that's pretty much all I have to say I just want to share my screen and point to one part of that article um so yeah the funny thing is I'm like I've reading this article and I'm like what country is this right because nowhere in the article it talks about what country you have the dollar symbol in front of the hundred so I have to go look at the URL and it's AU so I'm like oh Australia okay so here's the crazy part and I'm I'm going to highlight this you guys see my screen right um the cash economy is worth 1.5% of GDP which is about 21 billion dollars so this um insanity by the governments to overhaul and cost havoc with cash is all about 1.5% of GDP and it's not even just 1.5% the cash economy is 1.5% so this cash economy is not going to go away but the taxes on this point 1.5% so now we're talking maybe 0.5% if they tax you at 33% that's what they're screaming about that they're that's what they're all hollering about which as to me it is insane there this is that this is the part that the government thinks is preventing them from creating utopia 0.5% of GDP and that's insane all right Theo Goodman yes it's good for Bitcoin all these articles of the government is going to ban all kinds of cash and everything that's great for Bitcoin people freak out they phoma by and they think that it's you know they're really going to do it really they're just floating around the idea of the 100 but I mean it'll probably come with time for a lot of the reasons Tony's saying I mean here with the 500 in Europe um you know that'll they'll that'll get phased out eventually um but I think they're going to have a lot harder time with the rest of them because people still use 100 and 50 on a daily basis um but you know it could come with time um people are going to have to get used to it and depending on the country it's going to be how willing the people are um going to be giving it up I think um in India I don't know how well it's going um but uh you know we'll see anytime you have all the pictures of long lines of people in front of banks um that always gets people really excited for Bitcoin um doesn't matter if the government's really even doing anything it's just the perception just those nice pictures anytime you get all these articles about government banning stuff dealing with cash um yeah people usually perceive that as really good for Bitcoin and that Bitcoin's going to solve all the problems that are associated with that and so that's very positive it is a great selling point for Bitcoin that if you put some in a paper wallet and put it on a shelf and come back a few years later the same number of Bitcoin will still be there Gabriel Devon well that's true with dollars too I got the same number of dollars in my piggy bank right but uh purchasing power is a different thing but not not if they make the dollars no good and and they're just not valuable I mean they're just they're basically invalidating right it's the same number of out dollars but their value has changed to zero um you know I've I was shocked to do right I was I was just about to say shocked that's you read my mind I was I was shocked to uh read this article uh well to find out about the issue right before I read it uh I was you know looking at what's happened in Venezuela which is the basket case India which wasn't a basket case and was turned into one due to a cash ban that was these cash bands they're so fast in the past when even even in France I think in the 60s when they did a cash ban I think they gave them months and months to do it and you know it's it's it's it's one thing if you're trying to change the paradigm a little bit replacing bills you know you give lots of leeway this was an obvious banking wealth grab of just the most epic evil proportions in India unbelievable especially the the Indian situation because really we're talking about uh 10 and $20 bills we aren't talking about it says 500 rupees but that's 10 bucks and they're reprinting these bills I mean I didn't say in the the intro because it it's too long but they're reprinting these bills so really like you're saying they are pretty much directly stealing from anyone that didn't hear about the the cash being written off right and they gave them like six weeks and then the 72 hours in advance way this is a standard of years right and uh then it's wayla 72 hours it's just an obvious evil uh wealth grab that is well and they're they're trying to put the genie back in the bottle right they're saying this is an economic solution to reduce the cash options which they think cuts off the black market but as as I said the problem like you go from buying a hamburger or while it's in the next story but you know hamburger it goes from you know 25 bills to 250 bills it's that kind of you can't buy anything anymore yeah it's insane now I'll play devil's advocate for a minute here right because honestly like here in the US I don't know about you guys I almost never use hundred dollar bills I always um take out hundred dollar bills but I always need to break that hundred dollar bill somewhere and then I always use 20s many places don't accept hundred dollar bills um a lot of uh businesses actually um they just don't have that much cash because most people don't use the cash so in reality in reality of the situation uh people don't really use that much cash and um a lot of the I can definitely see it from the point of the government the problem is that um a lot of people and they also treat like cash users as criminals are written right so in the way um they can be like kind of protecting people from themselves because if I have a business um and I do have a business and less and less people are using cash um in in in in the business that are coming through the door and I was always nervous about reporting the cash because when you start reporting the cash now there's suspicion that your business is doing something shady because why would all these people come in and pay with cash um so again it's like another double edged sword so that's why I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit when when I think about it's really I do see I see the government's perspective when I think about when have I used hundred dollar bills well sometimes to pay rent you'd use a hundred dollar bill for a large purchase and generally I'd say to buy a car or a scooter or a tv or a bicycle anything that's kind of expensive you might end up using hundred dollar bills which the government's point would be you're avoiding taxes in those situations if you go to best buy and buy a computer you're probably going to charge it you're probably not going to pay in hundred dollar bills unless you buy a computer off of Craigslist um which again they're cutting off commerce reducing us to a barter system perhaps I'm not but really they're just making it inconvenient you have to count out like 120's all the time I don't know I honestly think that peer-to-peer markets for like cars and whatever they're not that big they're not that big I mean you usually buy a car from a reputable shop and yes you can walk in there with a suitcase of hundred dollar bills but that's a coin-based situation they have to report it on their end or they're committing a crime right um so I don't see people buying cars with hundred dollar bills unless they can account for those bills it's very difficult to clean the cash right so it's like so the the government thinks that like everyone's a criminal but in reality um it's only like the small-time people that have this cash but if you're a big-time key person with cash you got you're your own problems on how to clean it by the way but I forgot to mention this this is lovely for Bitcoin I love this I would I know like I least to scream I like it so bad that government is limiting cash now like please eliminate all the cash like all the bills like like eliminate them eliminate the hundred dollar bill the fifty dollar bill eliminate the twenty dollar bill for God's sake keep us out like just once five and ten's right that would be good I mean the big point will go absolutely through the rules so I'm all four governments eliminated I'm long I'm long wheelbarrow's I'm ready to see people in New York with the wheelbarrow's are ones and fives going down to to do stuff I'd like to announce theos in my wheelbarrow company we'll be launching in seven cities to start um I was really it's so so tone you know it's it's to come back to what I was saying the thing that really shocked me of these past ones was the speed of it just the sheer speed is so it's so unfair it's one thing if you say okay well we don't need these big bills which I don't agree with that actually but even if you do the speed of that is just an obvious I'm not surprised I mean once one country comes up with a dumb idea and there are someers responsible for a lot of them uh one one country comes up with a dumb economic idea it's like a hurt it's like a sort of chaos yeah yeah yeah it's only amazing but I wasn't expecting Australia as the next battleground for a oh dude come on I'm already referred to the Australian tax authority as like the only tax authority that's more ruthless than the US tax authority yeah I think that's yeah we we clear that on the show I think I my impression of the Australian tax authorities and I've never been to Australia is that they're all armed uh SWAT agents yeah yeah and we all learned this because the day after Stephen Wright was was uh speculated to be Satoshi and Greg right tax authorities that waited his house with automatic machine guns right right yeah Greg right Stephen Wright on the other hand is a is a very interesting comedian who would certainly have some interesting things to say about this right right I don't know why I'm keeping Stephen right right is you know he's is you know like about some powdered water I didn't know what's what's the dry the dry create the most dry which is a great point because I so wanted to think of one of his lines but I couldn't that was that's the one that's my favorite I've said about some powdered water I didn't know what to add anyway so um Australia is is as their our authoritarian but it's a first world country I didn't think they were gonna try something like this but they haven't of course announced it either but I am getting a feeling of extreme urgency from governments all over the world lately except for maybe China and Russia. The other governments seem to be really, especially Western governments right now, seem to be panicking in general that they're losing their grip on world domination, I guess you could say. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Interest rates. There's a fear that interest rates are rising. And then the panic is going to blow their debt. Right? Their debt bomb is, right, the current politicians don't want to be the one that's, they don't want to be the ones responsible for the blow up or debts. So right now, this is like their best measure to get tax revenue in while they're still in office. And then the next guy's problem of the economy collapsing because now it's, I mean, it was like a one-time shot. It's like a heroin shot. You get a load of this currency. You get all these supposes. I guess they're, I'm sure there are criminals. Look, I'm not going to deny that, right? So they're all going to turn this money in. If all of a sudden there's like this one-time shot to the system where there's less cash in the system more, they collect more taxes. But then people will find another way to evade those taxes or the economy slows down because of high taxes. I mean, this is the, there are no people always like accuse me of like stealing stuff from a Bitcoin-on-Censor guy. But this is the one issue I fully disagree with them on. The higher the taxes in your country, the slower your economic growth over the next 10 years. This is the issue I argue with them on. And if this is a de facto tax increase, then over the next 10 years your productivity over your country and of your people is going to go down. But the current politicians aren't going to be the one responsible for it. It will be the one stuff are bearing the brunt of it 10 years down the line. I would say I'm not that surprised that it was Australia. I don't know much about Australia, but I have been watching the recent juice, juice wrap news videos. And they seem to have a similar Donald Trump-esque politician that took over Australia, kind of a similar Brexit situation and anti-immigrant type feeling going on. So it's not completely out of left field to see them try this cash ban. Any more on this issue? You guys want to move on? Yeah, I just wanted to say that it's not just the way to grab some tax income in the view of pending bond and debt. But it's also not only also a wealth grab, but it's also a sale and some control thing. They want to push all those transactions into electronic networks that they control completely and have total transparency on. Waiting for the electronic payment to build up before they pulled this stuff, unfortunately for them, Bitcoin was also in that time. And none of this stuff is going to work. They're going to shoot themselves in the foot and all of that commerce is going to push into crypto over the next few years. Excellent prediction, Gabe. And we will continue to cover the war on cash, just a reminder. And the second beast required all people small and great rich and poor, free and slave to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, the name of the beast or the number of its name, revelations 1317. Moving on to issue four issue four, Venezuela, the perfect storm. Venezuela is removing the hundred bull of our note as we discussed earlier, claiming the country's enormous black market is causing its remarkable inflation rate of 500%. Removing the note, they say, will allow them to crack down on criminal gangs. It already takes more than 50 of the 150 of the 100 bull of our notes to buy a single McDonald's hamburger. The remover of the note means that peasants will have to carry around more than 250 bills to purchase the same hamburger. Meanwhile, Bitcoin continues to be banded about as an option with a tiny minority already turning in to the fledgling digital currency. The old goodman, is this the moment? Is Bitcoin beginning to reach a tipping point in Venezuela? Maybe. Another interesting side note is that the Venezuelan minors are are coming under greater scrutiny from the authorities and from what I understand, it's all about payoffs for the cops corruption and that. It's not really about cracking down on the miners per say. It's about sketching on that there's some kind of value there and they're like, hey, let's just hunt these guys down. Let's do a kickdoor. We're going to do a kickdoor. As kickdoor is a sl- you know, it's just when you just invade and you know, let's scare these nerds and let's see what they got. There's probably a lot of that and that's only what we're just, I'm just getting this from what's being reported and what I'm hearing about. There's probably a lot more going on that we don't even know about. So playing a part of it and if the cops know Bitcoin has value and they start wanting it, then it goes into wildfire. Then you got the public that wants Bitcoin because they don't want to have to use a wheelbarrow to go get a McDonald's hamburger and then you got the cops that want it because that's sadly, they know the only thing that's really worth anything is not what they're getting paid in and that you got everyone wanting Bitcoin. So to me, that's actually a really bullish sign for Bitcoin. If the cops, if the corrupt cops want to get paid in Bitcoin, then that's pretty bullish. The article also outlines how once again, knowledge knowing about Bitcoin is kind of a superpower. There's a guy in the article he needs to pay for his mother's cancer treatment. So because of this, he learned about Bitcoin, which he used to send overseas to pay for the treatment because he knew about Bitcoin. He could hedge some of his money in Bitcoin and avoid the disaster of their currency. And now he's in a better financial situation because of his knowledge, because of something he heard about, something he studied, something that he needed for his situation, but it's turned out great for him in the future. And that's exciting to see that. Gabriel, D. Vaughan. I think that it is a bullish sign. I love Theo's point about the bribes. I think that's a really great sign of the need of the curve, of exponential adoption when bureaucrats and law enforcers begin to lust after an asset. You know that you're really changing a paradigm. And to look at the numbers in the article, you know, two years, a thousand X, right? Or maybe one hundred X users in two years. That's pretty good. And you know, another hundred X from there, and you've got eight million. So that's approximately something around the the population of Venice, wireless. I wouldn't be surprised if we see, you know, you know, usage in the millions in the next two years. We really need a segue, we really need lightning network in order to, you know, make this a medium exchange as well. But as many people have been discussing recently, a storage of value is the first use case of a new money. You have to have that or else you can't use it as a medium exchange. And I could see that, you know, Venice, Wales certainly are using Bitcoin as a store, store of value and as a medium of exchange as well. So I think this is, it's still early days, still very early days. It's, you know, we've got some usage going now and all the charts do look exponential for usage. But that still means that there's, you know, a long road ahead. We have some technical hurdles. Especially when you look at the chart of local Bitcoin transactions. It's an incredible just left to right. We're just going up. And that's something not like Coinbase accounts or blockchain.info wallets where you could say someone has many wallets. It's not as important. Actual transactions are actual transactions and the more the merrier. Tone Vays. Still muted and moving slow motion. Yeah, no, I was typing. I was talking to Rodrigo actually from our, Rodrigo is the main content. I was going on the vanes, Wailin, Brazil. I know from from our days and at the Bitcoin Center. So maybe I'll try and get an interview or something. Okay. So this is what I wanted to talk about. All right. So just like India, I am very frustrated with reporting. So I'm going to pull up the sardicle and we're going to go through it. So I don't see you guys on camera. But who's read the sardicle? Thomas, you read it. Yeah, right? Yeah, I think so. Parts of it. Okay. Gabriel, do you guys read the sardicle? The one that Thomas pointed to? I only skimmed it. I didn't have time to read it before we end for the second. So here's the problem with these articles. Right. So I'm going to highlight this part right here. This week when as well as rush to unload 100 boulevards bills, the largest denomination after government announced that it would be withdrawn from circulation on Wednesday. And people are given like 72 hours to turn these in. So this is the India situation. And then this article goes on and talks about Bitcoin. Here's what the article doesn't talk about, which exactly like India. And I find this incredibly frustrating. They talked about how, oh, you need like 50 of these $100 bills to go buy MacDowell's burger. That's where this information comes from. Right here. I clicked on the link because I learned from the India thing. These things aren't as clear a cup. You need $50, $100 of boulevards to go buy MacDowell's hamburger. So they're removing the $100 boulevards. But they're replacing it with a $20,000 bill in boulevards. Not dollars. There's no dollars involved in their money. $20,000 boulevards. Right. Sorry. Forget I said dollars at all. Right. So you can bring in 20 of these $100 boulevards. 20,000 boulevards. So are they actually getting rid of cash? Or are they creating bigger bills? Okay. So these are the parts of these stories that people aren't saying. Now here's the problem. Right. Again, right. So I just made a case that they're creating more cash than less cash. But here's the problem. The problem is that they're only giving people 72 hours to do it. And apparently I'm not sure they actually have these $20,000 bill of our notes because people are taking their $100 bills. They're bringing them to the bank because they have 72 hours to turn them in. And then they go to the ATM machine to take out money and they're giving $100 bills again. I mean, let's read between the lines here, Tom. This is a move against large scales drug dealers or people with a large pile of cash. I know it's a whole-of-the-shade reference, but I just watched Breaking Bad and you know, he's got cash in the walls. He's got piles and piles of cash. Think about if you had to get rid of it in 72 hours. There's no way. Everyone you know they change it in you. It's just impossible. That's what I'm saying. I understand all of that. Right? But what I'm saying is these are all one-time things to either distract your population so that they're not doing whatever and try to like curtail this one-time shot. But if they're actually going to put in $20,000 denominated bills, then they're going to make the situation worse. I mean, I understand that a $20,000 bill is only worth about $4 US dollars. Bolivar. Bolivar. Well, I'm just saying bill, right? $20,000 bill in their currency. No, $20,000 Bolivar bill. Well, I'm sure. Jesus. Well, $20,000 Bolivar bill, yes. There's a government. Imagine if there was a $20,000 US dollar bill. But... Well, but again, we're talking about Y-Mar Germany and that's how you get the wheel barrels. I think we know. This has been done before. Right. But you have to separate this situation of Venezuela and what's happening in Australia. So, in Australia, they're going to remove the $100 note and they're going to replace it with nothing. They're going to remove the $100, and then the 50 becomes your biggest one. They're removing the $100,000 and the 50 is not going to become the biggest one. They're introducing a $20,000 Bolivar bill. Now, the problem is that I don't know if they had them preprinted or not. Like in India, they were removing the $1,000 and replacing it with a $2000, but there weren't that many $2000, right? So, we can have a different discussion. But people need to like click on links within articles to get the real understanding of the story. And I think that the Bitcoin media is doing a terrible job of this because nowhere in that article was this part stated. And honestly, this part is very, very important for people to really understand what the hell is going on. Cross-trades me and I learned from the India situation. And that's what I always look for. Now, in Europe, they're removing the $500 and they're not replacing it with a $1000, they're just removing the $500. So, these are slightly different things. And just wanted to point this out. I said before, people are turning in these $100 notes. Bolivar notes, they are taking the chances that they're not going to be called a criminal, they some taxes on those. But the problem is now they need cash again because the cash economy they go to the ATM and they're given hundreds again. So, that's the kind of reparded part in the situation. But I just wanted to point that out. And also, the removal of the euro notes and of the Aussie notes and potentially US notes, that's way more important. Like, important to the Bitcoin economy than what Venezuela and India is doing. Are more focused on the cancellation of bills in first world countries where people have retirement savings versus, you know, communist countries where the government pretty much owns everything or a country like India where the average person in India probably has less money to their name than what you have under your couch. Right? So, or if you just sold the furniture in your apartment or any one of us on this channel. So, that's all I really want to point out. So, there is a war on cash, but it's different in developing countries versus the developed world. Any more on this issue? Gabe or Athio? All right, let's move on to predictions or story of the week. Theo Goodman, I know you're talking about this before the show. You're very ready with a prediction or a story of the... I'm not the opposite. I was just reminding you I was projecting my unreadiness on everyone else in the group in order to distract you. I just want to point out that Athio, tell us about the UFC 117-850. In Sacramento? Oh, Sacramento. Okay, all right, great. The story of the week is UFC Sacramento tomorrow and you can check out my picks over at dgenbet.com where I've made my three main picks for the UFC Fight Night Sacramento. And I think my most confident pick will see if it... We can come back to this video and see if I was right is that Mickey Gaw is going to beat Sage Northcut. Sage Northcut is this guy kind of looks like a cross between the karate kid and a guy from Street Fighter, the video game. And UFC is really trying to hype him. And Mickey Gaw is this kind of normal guy and he just beat CM Punk at the UFC. So it's going to be it. It's a good hype event here for UFC and my prediction is Mickey Gaw destroy sage Northcut. I always do it for the guy named Hunt, but I just like Sacramento to be mentioned in the news. Gabriel D. Vine, are you ready with a story of the week or a prediction? I sure am. I have a story this week. Franamine, very good Franamine, was complaining that the exchanges are asking for his personal information. He felt that his personal information would not be safe with these institutions, like Coinbase and Kraken, American brokerage and exchange houses that hold this data and could easily leak it. He doesn't feel safe, he doesn't feel that it's fair or necessary. And so he asked me, hey, one of my other options, I said, there's local bitcoins, you have to do it in person though, maybe bring a firearm or something. He said, that doesn't sound too great. I said, well, you can always try BitSquare. He said, what's that? BitSquare is a decentralized exchange open source, pieces of software. You run it on your desktop, you throw up your offer or bid. And as long as your machine's on, anybody can see it over the internet. And the way that it works is, as they're updating and adding features and fixing bugs, they also introduce support for various digital fiat exchange options. And so I said, hey, man, throw up a couple, he wanted to sell one bit coin. And I said, hey, throw up a couple of offers. And so he did. And he's been using it. And it works. I was really, really stoked about that. I'll meet them in person after he's done it. Oh, no, no, no, no, he's, you can, he's tried a couple of different things. I believe he's using clear exchange, which is a US money, transmittal platform. It's not easy. All of the ones that they support are very difficult to, if not impossible. Is it like a wire or a irreversible wire or something like that? Kind of. Yeah, it's basically like a, it's like a much less reversible ACH. And basically all the, all the different banks sort of implement it in different ways. But that one seems to be the smoothest because he got a couple that were, he did a couple of offers that were deposit cash, you know, or whatever deposit where people go to the bank. And those tend to be really slow and, you know, kind of a little bit sketchier. Whereas the clear exchange was literally 20 minutes that he took to receive it in his bank account. So that's a very much faster service. In any case, I don't necessarily recommend clear exchange, but BitSquare itself does work. One of his offers did experience a big hiccup when something went wrong with the autumn, with the fee on the Bitcoin transaction, where it was too low because there's been a lot of congestion recently. The his, the transaction kind of tripped it up and there was some little bug in the platform that they need to fix. But he was able to get one of the developers, which is not even a service. It's a decentralized open source platform, but he was able to get one of the people to help him with it. And everything came out great. So he's got 100% track record. I believe he's done, he's, he's sold a few Bitcoin in like five transactions. And he says it works awesome. So everyone go out there, download BitSquare, give it a shot, try to buy or sell some Bitcoin through that, find the, you know, the most dependable fiat option and go for it. It's working. It's out there. It's doing it. Follow them on Twitter. Check it out. BitSquare. Sounds like an interesting option. Tone Vaze. All right. Just one slide update. So after I said my spiel about the articles not clarifying the process of the currency, I've been informed that even though the government has said they will put in a $20,000 ball of art note into circulation. It's like a, apparently, it's like a unicorn. No one has actually seen one yet. Right. So again, to me, the real story is that. And I haven't seen that in the news, right? Like, like articles like the Guardian, you know, holding Vendus Waila and at least informing the world that governments are lying to you and they're claiming that they will replace this note with a $20,000 ball of art. And if they're not actually following through, then that's the story. Right. And as the story, we do not see. And apparently, that's what's happening on the ground, which is why I did say that after people turn in these hundreds, they go to the ATM. They're expecting a $20,000 bill to come out. And hundreds come out again, which they now have less time to go and turn into the bank again. And now they will find criminals. Why would they have even more cash? Right. So, but again, this is the problem with government's lying to you, which I think is the real story there that needs to be covered. Anyway, okay. So, here's my story of the week. And this actually just happened today. And I'm going to share my screen again. I wasn't sure if I was going to share this or not. So this morning or this early this afternoon, I got on a Wail team speak for the first time. And I've never used that team speak software before. It's a program you download. It's for gamers. I'm not a gamer, but it's this is where they chat. And this came together earlier today because of, and maybe I can pull up my Twitter while that's loading. Anyway, so I jumped on team speak because just early today, there was like a whole Twitter. It wasn't even that much of a tweet store going on, but net Scott of Steamit said something pointing to the steam at detractors like myself. And I replied making fun that they think they have a block chain. So there was a little back and forth. And then one of the guys from Wail Club asked Ned to come on their team speak to kind of talk about it and explain. And then after Ned agreed, he then sent me the thing is, hey, jump on. All right. So by the time I figured it out, I've never even used the program before. I jumped on. I thought I came in after Ned and Dan or just Ned. So I just started talking about steam. And apparently I was the first one in. So then Ned and Dan of steam it both jumped on and this turned into like a debate, which was, which may or may not have been moderated, moderated. And they were using, they were together in the same room. They were using the speaker. I was using the software I wasn't very aware of. So the audio is probably absolutely terrible with people speaking over each other and very minimal moderation. Partially my fault because like I've been on shows before this show, vortexes show, other hosts. So I kind of know when to speak, even though I speak way too much and interrupt to understand that. But at least I know the platform in this case, speaking with on that group chat. I didn't know any of them. I didn't know any of the voices. So it was very like. And I wasn't ready for a debate. I don't think they were ready for a debate. So this is like the worst debate in history. And I wasn't sure if I was even going to promote it. But I guess it happened and it's on the internet and it's not going to go away. So if you want to listen to the first ever public conversation, if you need Ned of steam it and Dan steam it along with some of the whale club guys. I mean it's right here. Maybe Thomas will want to put it in the show notes. If not I might tweet it out later. So I guess that's the story of the week. Oh man, I hate when this happens. Then Firefox. So let me just quickly grab the tweet that kind of started as old. I think it's here somewhere. Maybe I could find this. Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. All right. So anyway, you can look through my Twitter and we can look through that. Retweet that link. It's good to turn sense it out. Way back to. Yeah, I guess I'm back. I guess I can feel the frozen a little bit. But yeah, so I guess that's my story of the week. Only because like happened this morning. I was thoroughly unprepared for a debate. Not that I really need to be prepared for a debate, but I would have been ready with more comebacks. I've done with them as well. The research I've done to scam bus limits on their white paper. And I know some of it was inaccurate because their white paper is like a blog post. There wasn't anything like technical in it. But all that work I did, I'm bringing up those examples and all they're telling you, oh, that's not showing you more. We changed the economic model. It's not. It doesn't have hyperinflation anymore. It's not increasing at 100% a year. It's like all these things. And I'm like, yeah, you just went in and changed it. Now, how you're going to champion that it's a block chain. If you just go in and change the entire creation of the currency. So anyway, so I find the arguing steam at incredibly frustrating 20 scams in one. And you sound like a crazy man because you're jumping from part of the scam to part of the scam to part of the scam. So I'm never going to change my mind on this when I was interested in the first ever interaction on the internet between me and the steam at scammers. There you go. Today I may put on my blog. I may tweet it out. I mean, I'm not proud of when down. It's definitely one down in a more professional way. But I don't act professional when it comes to steam it. I just find that to be in my space. It was unfortunate the way that debate wasn't really organized or moderated. I would like to see a more thorough debate between you and the steam at guys. Although they were they were incredibly excited to debate you. They seem very ready. Yeah, and don't blame the whale club guys for for the quality of the debate because this wasn't meant to be a debate at all. And it literally got put together in an hour and no one expected it to be at the debate until it just turned into one. This was totally unplanned, unprepared. So when you listen to this, like don't blame them because they did an amazing job with Roger Vier earlier this week when they have Roger on and Eric Lombrozo as a core developer and Alex Petro from Bitfury and what's his name from 5th and X. GPG. Sorry, I'm going to get this success today. Phil Potter. Phil Potter. So I thought that was amazingly moderated. Moderated. And again, now I know how team speak works. So the next time I'm on it, I won't try not to speak over people because I now understand it. So yeah, so that's kind of my story. Personal story of the week. Maybe we can do a more formal one and people have been reaching out to me to maybe do me versus Roger on the scaling because neither one of us are very technical. After watches this or someone reaches out to Roger, that will be great. And because neither one of us is technical. So we were coming from the same place, even though Roger was exponentially famous than myself. So maybe if you want to do this with someone more important to the Bitcoin space. I think this could be an interesting idea. Maybe we should set up kind of a debate series, something similar to what we did with you and Blake Miles when we talked about steam it before. Maybe something on Sunday evening. So yeah, if Ned and Dan, if you guys are watching if you're interested in debating tone and just a, you know, nothing, or whale speak certainly did their best today. But in a more serious and prepared debate style, maybe we could work on that. And the same thing for Roger, if you got there and you'd like to discuss scaling with tone, we can guarantee that you'll get your chance to speak and you can put your opinions out there. More to add on this? More. All right. And I was also unprepared with the story of the week, but I've been keeping an eye on the chat, which has been mainly about beards and hair. But there's also a great quote there from Gurgis. And I'm going to go ahead and steal it. So full respect. He said Vitalik is on CNBC wearing a cat t-shirt. So I wanted to make that my story of the week. Vitalik's cat t-shirt, respective Vitalik looks like he finally got a new shirt. Also his hair looks great. Very awesome. Very jealous of anyone with hair. This is what happens when you go on TV. You know, they have a green room and they, and they make you look healthy. You know, they give your skin a little bit of color if it has no color and it's totally white and you look very unhealthy. And you have lots of pimples on your face or whatever. They'll cover that up and they'll style that your hair for you. I agree with Theo. I've met Vitalik in person. He looks nothing like this. They made him look fantastic. He looks great. Can I comment on this because I saw a similar picture tweeted out by I think, well, Kando was somebody and it didn't say Kofonder with theoretum. It says everything was like a theoretum classic. That's the dark Photoshop. That was Photoshop. Yeah, it was Photoshop. That's dark pills Photoshop. And it was really. I think it was one of those guys. Yeah, really well made. And also I want to remind everyone because you did slip it, but it's easy to slip. That's whale pool, not whale club. Just so it says whalepool.io so people can find it so they don't get mixed up because that people get all mixed up and they go in circles. whalepool. Yeah, sorry. Sorry about that. No, it's okay. Yeah, no, it's okay. When people are looking for it, whale pool is the one. Thanks everyone for watching. Thomas, do you have any final words to get us out of here? I think that mainly just we're out of time until next week. Bye, bye. Bye. Bye.