The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Gabriel D. Vyn from Future Rant. Hi, Internet, Hi, Bitcoin's, Hi, Prostarity. Tone Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Hi, everyone. Back to doing this from our doors for gets to cold in New York. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, CEO of Backpage, arrested. The CEO of Backpage has been charged with pimping, pimping a minor, and conspiracy to commit pimping. Additionally, two controlling shareholders have also been charged with conspiracy to commit pimping. The website in question, Backpage.com, allows users to post classified ads, including adult advertisements. The site was famously blacklisted by Visa, and turned a Bitcoin to accept payments, leading to many Bitcoin experts offering their services to train the Eager S-Cords. The theory put forward by the California Department of Justice says the Backpage was purposefully and unlawfully designed as an online brothel. Will the arrest of the Backpage CEO put an end to the scourge of online pimping? Or is this just another parallel to the Silk Road where government agents endlessly chase their own tale in a foolish game of whack-a-mole, where the only winners are those who play the game, with the losers being everyone else? I ask you, Gabriel D. Vaughan. I'm going to go with that whack-a-mole idea, for sure. I think most government work is whack-a-mole. As far as the legal side, where there's like, what do you call it, legal systems and law enforcement and regulators who have the monopoly on force and attempt to stop or change the way that society functions in order to benefit those who have influence on said laws and regulations. And it seems like basically a clusterfuck every time it happens as far as I can tell. Perhaps there are some examples of smaller communities who are able to maintain justice in a more fair way. But when you get big government like this, it doesn't, and prostitution is a perfect example of something that shouldn't be illegal. It's individuals that are, you know, individuals that are freely choosing to do something with, you know, to do an activity together. You know, we don't have laws against people doing a soccer game. So why should we have laws against people having sex? Well, obviously that's different. But we do, I mean, human beings have a desire to get exercise and do sport, a physical base cellular desire, which does have a similarity to sex. Of course, there's situations where, you know, young women get exploited by somebody else. I don't think PIMP laws are really effective in doing anything about that. They more just make all those people's lives harder. As opposed to, for example, social workers going in or community organizers going in helping these people. Really, I think the PIMPing issue, you know, unless you're like, you know, really doing it in a fair manner where somebody's literally providing a service of marketing and client relations on the PIMPing side. You know, a lot of times empowering the women to do the, that work themselves is the way around it. And that's what Backpages about. Independent entrepreneurial sex workers that are attempting to make, attempting to do this without a PIMP. And, but in the legal definition, they don't care whether it's helping anybody or hurting anybody. They don't give a shit about that. It's all about the letter of the law. And so in this case, they're choosing to interpret it as PIMPing when it's, of course, doing software. So, you know, if you provide a service for something that the government doesn't like and says is illegal, then you're going to be charged with that, just like Ross Olbrecht. We're talking in the pre-show about, you know, he had the Silk Road drug marketplace. And he got charged for being a drug kingpin, even though he never sold any drugs himself at all. Mearily by providing an e-commerce website, he was then guilty of selling drugs on a huge scale because he enabled somebody else and he took a cut on the middle. You know, all this stuff. I think we're seeing a similar argument with Uber and Airbnb. Airbnb doesn't own any residences. Uber doesn't own any cars, but they want to hold them responsible for the results of people using their software. Of course, they have billions of dollars for legal fees and Ross and the back page guy have whatever meager resources they have. Exactly. It's just, it's an extension of large concerns. In other words, industry conglomerates, creating monopolies as they have done for centuries by leveraging governments monopoly on force in order to create their walled garden where newcomers and up-and-coming businesses, individuals cannot get a leg up, cannot get a foothold in those industries so that they can maintain their monopolies. In the case of drugs, it's the medical industrial complex and pharmaceutical industry, which rightly sees certain plants and drugs as a threat to their business model and their profit margins. And therefore, you know, support all of this incredibly harmful, incredibly destructive government action. And prostitution, I think, is a little bit more subtle in that way. There's not necessarily a sex working monopoly that they're trying to keep. I think it's more just oppression. You might call it. Yeah, I would call it oppression. So this is a complete BS, but on the other hand, if you're going to be public, it's not like Ross Albrich where he was trying to hide from the authorities. That's one thing. And these guys were public. And in my opinion, their lawyers are to blame. Lawyers are supposed to be professionals that protect business people from these type of risks. And obviously, their lawyers were unprofessional, too optimistic. And it does stay in the article that he was arrested and Houston after he arrived on a flight from Amsterdam. So perhaps he would have been better off staying in Europe. There could have been some legal guns there. Maybe you shouldn't travel to Texas. Could advise perhaps. Tone bays. All right. All right. That was pretty well said. Gabe, so I'm going to try not to repeat anything you said. And I'm going to talk about the different side of things. Some of the things. So at the very end, you mentioned Ross Albrich, which is this is identical to that. Also, you said, well, Ross Albrich was hiding from the authorities. He clearly wasn't hiding very hard. He was still, you know, where was the court in California? But he clearly wasn't trying very hard. They caught him in a public library in San Francisco in the middle of town. Right. The crazier part to me was he was caught like three or four blocks away from the department that was actually trying to catch him. Which to be is insane, right? So because of that, I've heard of hiding in plain sight, but that might be taking it a little too far. I know. And, yeah, so Ross should be more careful. And these guys should have been more careful, especially after what happened with SoCroad. I mean, they know what they're doing. I mean, I'm happy that backstage exists. I wrote a big article over a year ago now about S-coords can take 5 points to the next level. And I still believe in that. Obviously, I agree with you that prostitution should be legal. But in that case, I mean, why? First of all, why is he a public figure? Why are they public figures? They should have been like CPR. And they should never step foot in America. And if they have U.S. passwords, it's in their best interest to eliminate those U.S. passwords as soon as possible. And I wouldn't exactly be hiding out in Europe either. I would be maybe Argentina. They have a pretty good non-exhibitionary treaty. That's why I heard a lot of the not-these-one's there to hide. I mean, John. I mean, John. What other countries do as well? John, do you think that they could have pulled off something like with a series of shell corporations, like B-T-C-E appears to be doing, where they're still... I believe they're still anonymous. They've got these corporations that they own in Bulgaria, Russia, and whatever places. I'm telling you right now, whoever is running B-T-C-E is loving the story right now. Because they're probably going to... They're probably going to relaunch back page on the different name, and they're going to do it right. And the way to do back page right is to not be visible. It's to have a trusted website. And this is going to be way more trusted than B-T-C-E. Because... And if B-T-C-E decides to take on this past, they can even have an escrow system built in to kind of... Because they know how to handle Bitcoin. That's when you get the potential exit scam. When you have the escrow system, you have the potential for the exit scam. It's just if it's directly... To run each of the girls, then there's no exit scam. Right, what about open business or for prostitution? Yeah, open business is... No, because open business is trying to decentralize the internet, which is nonsense. You just need to have your website on enough servers so that if one goes down, you're fallously transitioning. I think open business is a terrible model. It made sense. I don't know enough about it. Let's say it's already in the front of the day. But... They're over as far as the escrow system goes, Thomas. It should be their policy not to fall down to people's good points like Coinbase. It's only an escrow system for a limited amount of time and it settles within 24 hours. Right, like after... There's a sign off from... Yeah, and you can do... You can do escrow with multi-sig so that you actually don't have access to it. You're just maybe holding one key, but you know, it's really... Well, you can never send it to yourself, for example. Right, but that might also be a little more cumbersome. I shouldn't be mandatory. The escrow should be like optional. But then again, DTC might not want to take on that liability of holding the coins. But and I'm going to say DTC should do it. I'm just saying someone should follow the DTC model and do it this way. You can still have a CEO. People just don't need to know who that CEO real name is, what is they're doing, a good job. So I can see this moving into that direction. That's for law enforcement, it's ridiculous. It's like these people, strut out there, they get quarter of these articles. They found like five girls that were underage. What, out of how many thousands of girls are posting ads on that? Look, it's just statistics. And you know what? If you actually legalize prostitution for adults, you know, 17 or over, whatever the legal age is in your jurisdiction, then maybe you can directly focus on underage prostitution. In fact, I bet you underage prostitution will almost disappear if prostitution was legalized because it's all risky. For people that are doing prostitution, what they're doing is illegal. So if they're doing prostitution and they're, you know, providing services for women of legal age, they're already breaking the law. Adding minors to their internal system, it doesn't matter to them because they're breaking the law either way. If you open prostitution legally, then they may not want to take a chance on a minor because now they're doing something criminal, as opposed to adding minors to their already criminal act. And that's a big deal. And that's what those people in government don't understand. And by legalizing prostitution, you're actually helping the illegal side, the trafficking side, the underage side. You're helping that because then you will have, you know, pimps, if you can still call them that at that point, that you can actually work with. That will help you if they want to run a legal prostitution business. They might actually work with authorities to help you find and cut and arrest the underage prostitution traffickers. Well, right now you're getting no help from anyone in that community. There's just so much more that can be achieved, not to mention how much money they can save, by not going after a dull, supposed, very contract, but focusing all their efforts on the actual stuff that is morally wrong. So that's one thing I kind of wanted to say on the issue. And the other one is, they're not doing anything. All they did was eliminate just, so I haven't even checked it, the website's so punctual. I'm sure it is. I'm sure they have other admins. The company itself is not American company. And another thing people have to realize, these are the kinds of people that are willing to work in the Bitcoin industry and make something that is not only profitable, but is creating a fundamental reason why Bitcoin is worth $600 today. It's people like, I've already forgot the CEO's name. It's people like him for willing to take these risks. He just got arrested for a non-Bitcoin thing, but he was willing to run a company that Bitcoin needs. Have some, as mentioned in all those articles, they were the conduit for these escorts to get their Bitcoin. That whole team was just arrested for a non-Bitcoin-related thing. They got arrested for doing something stupid, but yes, what? These are the kinds of people that you will get running a profitable Bitcoin company, because they understand the risks and they're willing to take on those risks for big rewards. We're going to have more of this until some of these laws go away. And the next time someone runs this company, it's like someone that's not going to be in the public eye, and it may be safer, or it may be more dangerous, but hey, it's the government that their job is to make it more inefficient so that they get a more paychecks and higher-more people. Good stuff. Moving on to the exit question. Exit question, legalized prostitution. Yes or no? I think we already know Gabriel D. Vaughn. I'm going to go with only for me. No, no. I'm going to say yes, of course. And I just want to say, Tony, I really like what you said about, I forgot, whatever. Yes. Tony Vaughn, go ahead. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely gas, and it's legal, or at least not in force, in the other half of the world, not counting the religious countries, but if it's a number of just countries, it's virtually legal there. It's not in force at all, and it's a much better model. I think it's similar to what the European model does with drugs, with rehab and addiction. It's not great. We don't want more of it, but it's better to legalize it than you can control it. You can study it. You can have drug testing. You can have controlled environments. You can have treatment programs. You have more options, I think, when it's legal, than when it's illegal. But moving on to the next question. Issue 2, scaling Bitcoin, the lawn. This time, the scaling Bitcoin conference is meeting in Milan, a metropolis in Italy's northern Lumberty reason, a global capital of finance and design. Home to the nation's stock exchange, Milan is a financial hub known for its high-end restaurants and shops. The scaling Bitcoiners will be focusing on at least five major issues facing Bitcoin, including Bungibility. The ability for each Bitcoin to be as good as any other, a way for Bitcoin to include transaction privacy and prevent censorship and tracking. Onion routing, aka the Lightning Network, a network built on top of Bitcoin, allowing Bitcoin to be sent instantly through payment channels and only settled to the Bitcoin network when closing the channel. Lightning Network monitoring, apparently the Lightning Network creates a whole new problem of who will monitor the network to detect and punish cheating. Early suggestions are to outsource this job to a fraud specialist, but the question remains of who will watch the watchers. Sidechain scaling, Paul Stork will present his own sidechain proposal known as Drivechain, while blockchain's original sidechain project is still underdeveloped. And finally, segregated witness. Why it takes so long and is it finally ready? That and much, much more will be covered this weekend at the fabulous scaling Bitcoin conference in Milan, Italy. I'm sure we'll all be glued to the live streaming. Tones, which one of these scaling projects are you most excited about? If you could complete any of them in an instant, which one would you complete first? I'm muted, you have to unmute yourself. All right, cool. So I'll answer your actual question a minute, but I'm going to take the easy question first. Why did the segregated witness take so long? Because confident people want to test the shit out of it before they fork the Bitcoin network accidentally. So that is why segregated witness is taken so long. As I'm kind of most excited about that, and that's because I think segregated witness will do a lot of good. It'll raise the block size a little bit. It will, the reason why I'm looking forward to segregated witness is because it will prove to the world what responsible development is. I'm pretty sure it's going to go smoothly. It's going to go well. Everyone will, the speculators will still be unhappy, but I'm really looking forward to that. I used to worry about fungibility. I used to, you know, I used to scream, you know, privacy, privacy, fungibility. I'm not anymore. I'm now of the belief that that is not as important as some of the other things. I used to think it was the most important thing. And now I've kind of slightly changed my mind. Not that it's not important. I think it's important. I don't think it's it's lost a little bit of feeling to me only because I realized that the fact that as long as Bitcoin stays permissionless and as long as it stays, you know, the code base is secure and the code base is steady, you know, no hard forks, no crazy bugs. That's what's important. The fact that it's permissionless is important. Government isn't like arresting people for Bitcoin transactions yet. They are kind of arresting people for other stuff where they're Bitcoin transactions for fact or then, but that's usually because someone that shouldn't be using coin bases, using coin base. So you can cut that out. I mean, if you stick it up, stick it up here to peer, wallets, without going through middleman, I still think it's bunch of all enough. If once people start getting arrested for peer-to-peer wallets, I will then, you know, be more, I guess, cavalier. The fungibility is absolutely necessary. But right now, I'm okay with the current level of fungibility. So I'm mostly looking forward to segregated witness to kind of raise the block size a little bit, help with the malleability issues and some of the other things that they do. Liking network would be nice. I'm looking forward to those talks, all stores I like as well, whatever he says will be good. And I'll listen to that. Liking network, the sooner that comes in the better, that might take a lot of time as well. And once it does, you know, instant transaction would be good. I'm sure they'll figure out a way to do, you know, a witness kind of thing. Look, I trust that team. I think they're smarter, I think they'll figure it out. But fungibility would be nice, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Gabriel, do you find? Yeah, let's see, what were the questions again? Can you repeat them? Mainly just scaling Bitcoin and what you're looking forward to. Fungibility, the Lightning Network, sidechain, segregated witness. Yeah. So first of all, I will say I was not a big fan of Milano. I felt that it was definitely missing a lot of the passion and heart that I saw in other parts of Italy. And that's not necessarily true of everywhere in Northern Italy. I love the countryside, Alto Adi J, otherwise known as Zutirho, in German, beautiful place up near the Austrian border. And really cool people, interesting people. Milano was a cold place, you know, just the people were relatively impersonal. It's, you know, it's finance town. So once all that crap gets cleared out of the economy, this Bitcoin stuff maybe will take root there and it'll become a gruvier place. But I would still like to go if I could. So I'm going to have to, I guess I'm going to disagree a little bit with tone there. I think I'm going to, I fall somewhere in the middle on fungibility more like compared to like how you used to be compared to how you are now. I think it's very important and it is second only to scaling right now as just as far as, you know, October 2016 where we're at. I will say that altcoins other than their use as in just raw speculation, altcoins are an excellent fungibility addition. That may be one of the reasons why tone is so urgent about the need for really high privacy in order to increase Bitcoin's fungibility. But you know, it is a problem that Virgin coin coming out of the miners has a very high premium compared to other coin. That's a, that can really bite you in the butt and you're not, you know, not even to mention your governmental actions where you know, things become traceable and stuff like that. But with shape shift and maybe a decentralized alternative to shape shift down the line, you're looking at, you know, jumping from one blockchain to another, you're completely severing the link there. So there's the future for privacy. And then there's the fungibility additions that have been added to the Bitcoin ecosystem or, you know, been proposed and designed or are being coded like confidential transactions and many other features that are incredible. So I mean, the future for fungibility in Bitcoin is so bright. It's probably not going to really start kicking in till maybe a year from now or so, but you know, a lot of great stuff is coming in. I think we're going to have near anonymous transactions with Bitcoin within the decade, this, this decade. I would like to maybe correct you, Thomas, on the onion routing comments. That's not the same thing as Lightning Network at all. I think CoinDesk was using an example to try to explain Lightning quickly. I'm not sure that it's accurate either. Ah, interesting. Okay. Yeah. Lightning doesn't have anything to come with onion. Onion routing is wrapping and relaying transactions about and forth. So is to make them less traceable. That's something. But you can combine onion routing with yes, thank you. Oh, wait. You're muted. But go back and let's see that. Let's see that article again. Check it out. Onion writing in Lightning. Ah, I said that. So that's something else entirely. So it's combining onion routing, which is an anonymity or untraceability protocol used for web browsing and for anonymous websites, the darknet, they're combining that with Lightning. So then you have untraceable Lightning transactions. That is awesome. Love it. That is fantastic. That's just another example of great privacy features coming to Bitcoin. Love that. I'm super excited. I'm definitely the thing I'm most excited about is definitely Lightning Network. SegWit as an enabler for Lightning Network as well, of course. But SegWit is incredible because this, you know, tone just mentioned the malleability fix. This is a bug in Bitcoin where the transactions aren't as stable as they should be before they're confirmed on the network. And that causes a lot of problems for layer two and higher level applications on top of Bitcoin. It's actually quite a disaster for many applications of Bitcoin other than its use as a, you know, strong, strong money. And Lightning Network and full duplex payment channels and you know, other payment channel technologies are only one example of the things that are actually destroyed by the presence of this transaction malleability bug. So assuming that SegWit witness actually functions correctly and launches and is cool and doesn't blow up or anything like so many naysayers complain about. They say that the code is too long, too complex. Maybe they're right. But right now, they've been running it on test for nine months. So I think or more 10, 11 months. So I think that we're looking at a pretty stable release here coming up. It looks like probably this month, 10, 0.10.3 or whatever it is. Or let me think. 13, too, I think it is. So really excited for this upcoming release. And all of the incredible features that will be enabled. And that's I think one of the reasons why this particular conference will be so exciting is because the enabling coming to Paul Storz is how you say it. The drive chain proposal, some of the Bitcoin core devs complaining about how it's too long compared to some of the things coming out of core. I think it's great. We have different versions coming. And I just would like to mention that drive chain, which is Paul Storz's functional side chain spec and code base, is intended to function as the basis for Paul Storz's Bitcoin hive mind prediction markets. Decentralized prediction market system that works on top of the Bitcoin network and needs the side chains in order to function correctly. But the side chains work that had been done was not even close to mature enough to use. So Paul decided to just step back and do it himself. So I think that good on him for doing that, it's going to be an incredible thing to have this hive mind. And some unbreakable, un, you know, compromisable prediction markets giving us some real information about where people want to put their money or their mouth is. Excellent stuff. 10 minutes. Yeah, let me just jump back in real quick. So because of everything you just said gave about a bunch of ability in the near future. This is why I'm not like screening for it because I know it's coming. And once Monero went off, you know, 10x, and I said it's about to fall like 60, 70%. It's almost there. I think it's already down like 70% from the high. Once he's, once there's this mass until like these anoint points, that just, you know, gives a few Bitcoin believers. Yeah, you know what? Maybe we should, you know, address this problem. And they will address it. It's, uh, punchability will come when it's needed. Right now, segment is needed. So let's focus on that. When fungability is actually needed, it will come and it will be better than any old coin has. And if an old coin has something doing, then that's what Bitcoin will have. So I am, I'm just not worried about fungability. It's, it's coming. And right now, Bitcoin to me is probably the most vulnerable tool there is if you know how to use it. Like if you are not a new, and you know how to use Bitcoin, there's plenty of tools and some of them gave mention, that would, that would work. I think I have something else to say, but I really forgot. So, obviously, I just wanted to, uh, to come and, oh, so this is the other comment I was going to say. You mentioned that tall stores is proposed to those long. That's an understatement. Have you ever written, have you ever read anything he's written? Um, I know I have it just beyond my beautiful attention span. So I'm not surprised about that. Good stuff, Tony. I'm also a fan of fungability. I was especially interested in, I think it was, uh, Gregory Maxwell's idea of confidential amounts. If you think about it right now, if you're going to send a thousand Bitcoin around the network or we always hear about these Bitcoin days being destroyed because of old Bitcoins moving out of their account, this kind of stuff is not very privacy friendly. Only a few people in this world have more than a thousand Bitcoin and are moving them around. And if you really wanted to track what they were doing, you would figure it out. Uh, hopefully a solution like confidential amounts or the other solutions discussed would solve this problem. Uh, let's move on to the exit question. Exit question. Where should the next scaling Bitcoin conference be held? Gabriel, Tony, as Gabriel D. Vaughn tell us. I am going to say that, um, Prince George station Antarctica might be a good spot a little bit cold all year round, but summertime is doable and could be very fun and everybody plenty of privacy down there. Actually, a friend of mine is in Antarctica right now. He's like one of 30. He helps fix computers for the physics projects on the down there. It's a really amazing story. He's got the thing where he has to put his coat on inside because that traps a layer of warm air around your body and you have to do it before you go outside as you try to, you know, button up your coat outside your screw. It's already over. I'm starting to say I'm starting to think maybe that's not such a good idea to have it there. Well, we'll see. Maybe as we can we can ship out there Antarctica. It's nice tone Antarctica. That would be cool. I might go to that one. I kind of now I'm kind of missed not being up with scaling because I was at the last two scaling events, but it turns out my presentation never otherwise I could have been there. I don't know where it should be held. I mean, I like Asia. I think Asia was a good future for Bitcoin. Let's tell these Asia. So that's where I would like to see it. As far as where I think the next one will be, I'm going to take like this wild guess and I'm going to say the next scaling Bitcoin event would be possibly in the country of Republic of Georgia because BitTurie is always a part of scaling and they got the biggest minor operation. They have a relationship in Georgia. They have minor facility in Georgia. One of the co organizers of the event along with Tinder is Anton Fuzrushan. They keep Russian in Georgia. I think they might want to hit the eastern European market. The Russian keeping market without actually going into Russia to do it. Like to me, I'm just thinking Georgia is definitely on their list of potential sites. And that would be pretty cool. I might try to make my way over there. It's also cheaper like one of the reasons I didn't go to the Italy event because Europe's expensive countries on the euro. I mean, euro is crashing. It's not crashing fast enough to my taste. But yeah, that's one of the reasons why I'm not a big fan. Everything is all priced in those countries. Good points, Tony. I was going to go with something remote like Abu Dhabi. But really, when you think about it, they should have the next scaling Bitcoin conference in San Francisco. Most of the block stream team is here already. Save a bunch of money on airfare and travel arrangements. And it's just a nice place, nice weather year round. But let's move on to many conspiracy theories if they do this. It's just obvious. It's San Francisco. It's not sure where it should be. Let's move on to predictions or a story of the week. Gabriel, Devon, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Indeed, I'm ready with my story of the week. I believe I'm not a mentioned last week on the show that I had found out about this project called Code Valley. Did I mention that? In any case, this project Code Valley is an incredibly revolutionary concept. We'll see how the execution is over the coming months and years. Coming out of Australia. And I have to admit that the presentation of the idea is a little bit lacking at this time. They just upgraded their website right after I found out about it. They upgraded the next day, which is great. So they're obviously very active on this. It's fantastic. I think there's a lot of room for improvement on how to sell it. But on the other hand, it's quite early in the project. I would say it's at an alpha stage. So it's functioning and they're adding important features at this time. And they are working together with developers on it. And what Code Valley is. The vision right now is centralized. But the vision is that we'll eventually pivot in the third phase into a decentralized network. But right now it's centralized. It is a software creation platform that industrializes software development. Right now, I don't know if you know this, but software development is like a cottage industry. You cannot automate software development. You've got to have human beings going into your office or out in wherever outsourcing that are hand coding. It's like people whittling away at a chair in a workshop. These code farms. There's human beings that have to write every line of code and check it and test. There's human beings that test it. The whole Shabang has to be tested and created by hand. It's not industrialized. Unlike so many other industries that have been getting quote-unquote eaten by software. Well, Code Valley believes that it's time that software itself got eaten by software. And so what this system is is right now it's a web portal where literally you create from the building blocks up, which I believe they're creating most of the tiniest logic switches and stuff. You are actually designing software with an UX with an interface on the web that you're using in order to combine already existing modules into your software. So, this is not something that a product manager would do. It's more something for software people because you have to be a software person in order to create these modules. But the modules can be reused because they are not code. They're just a design that you have control over and you you set your private key, you have control and then you get paid with Bitcoin every time your modules are used. They call them vendors because the vendor because the module in their system is actually contracting with the other modules, etc. That you don't have to do its automated. So they call it a vendor. And what this is is a way to completely decentralize the creation of software. If you want to create a new piece of software at the top, you're going to use these smaller pieces to compile them together into a new software. Literally compile where you're going directly from the design of all these modules fitting together right into compiled code binaries. Never at any point does anybody write any actual code, a human readable code. There's no step between designing the software and boom executable or whatever, or website or whatever your final product is. So it's a totally incredible complete paradigm shift of software development. And if code valley does what it promises, it will be absolutely revolutionary for the entire world. It's going to be incredible. So I'm really looking closely into it. I got my invite. There's just a few dozen developers in there now. It's very early. I'm going to find out as much as I can and report here and maybe even work with them on their messaging a little bit so that when they're ready to reach out more, which they're not, you know, they're still taking it nice and slow. That way we can craft the message to make it absolutely clear what the potential of this project is. You guys have any questions about that? That sounds like good stuff. Tone vase. Code Valley dot com. Hey guys, so I just jumped on the chat. So I said I told people like ask questions and then after my story of the week, if you throw a few questions at us, we'll try and pick those up hopefully there's enough time. Okay, so my story of the week is really, really important. So yesterday morning from about 10 to almost 11 o'clock, Ross Ubrook's lawyers got a chance to appeal the case in front of three federal judges. This was very interesting. So for the bitcointers that have not yet seen the inside of a courtroom, this is a very interesting process. So I really wish I was there for the Ross Ubrook hearings. I mean, it was walking this is from my job. I just couldn't get the time off at the time. I'm not like an unemployed bomb like I am now. Back when he was going through trial, I was still working down time in Manhattan. It was, I was so sure that it was going to go well. Oh man, my battery just told me I have 10% left. So I know seven. Damn it. All right, hold on, I got to go inside because I want to talk about this. Gabe, maybe you have another story. I have a song for you. Do do do do do do do do do do do do. All right, let's do got some questions. Let's see the questions. You guys said, what's the company called? It's called code Valley, right? Code Valley is code Valley dot com. It's as far As far as I know, there's only about four or five of them in the company. This guy, Noel, something, loveease, I think. He did a little presentation online. You can check it out. But I don't believe that, in my opinion, that they're really bringing the potential, explaining the potential that great, but it's an incredible project. I mean, the potential of it is totally mind-blowing. And then Frank says, how do I make money on it? It sounds like you make money by writing the modules. Right. The actual code. And then someone else comes on and they put the pieces together and they use your code. You can do a little bit of big one. Not your code. I'll use your module. Yeah, you use the code. They call it a vendor. You create a vendor that's got a design in it that you create through the website, but it's not actually code. Right now, it only creates Linux binaries. I guess what we might call an executable, Linux binaries. In the future, you'll be able to not only create binaries for any system, but you'll also be able to create things within code valley. You'll be able to, like, code valley itself will be what they call emergent coding, which I think is a great term for it. It's the code that just pops into it. And it's incredible for, quote-unquote, intellectual property because then you, nobody can copy your code. You can't take a binary and backpaw. And you can backpaw, uncompiled, but it's not great. And you can't really do much with that. So it's a way to pay developers for their work and you get royalties, essentially. Every time somebody compiles an executable with your code or with your vendor. We've also got another question. Quantum asks, why are there so many scams in Bitcoin? And I'd say a part of it is Bitcoin is new technology. It's money technology. A lot of people made a lot of money not doing a lot of work with Bitcoin. And everyone else has seen that. And they all want to get rich quick too. They're very greedy, get rich quickie. You sound very quiet tone. You're very far away. Sorry, does this matter? It's a little better. Still very far away. All right. Let's scroll down. Let's see if we got some more questions. I like this talk. It says, we knew you liked code. So we put code in your code. All right. There you go. Go ahead. I'm going to talk about Russell. All right. Good. All right. I thought about Russell. We're going to come in on the scam question. Do you need to be more specific? Scams involving Bitcoin or like scams taking advantage of the fact that Bitcoin is a big one. Why? Like, we're creating this great new currency for everyone. And people wrote all this incredible computer science to get us there. And there's all this anarchist, cyberpunk, libertarian philosophy that helped us build this idea. But then when we look at it, what are we really giving to the world? We're giving people one coin. We're giving them all coin of the month. We're giving them ICOs. Everybody I know is printing money. And they're just printing it like crazy. Why does this keep happening? Some of them are good companies, some of them are scams. But in general, why? Why don't? Yeah. All right. Well, let's save that as a topic for next week. I'll say a good one. All right. Let's get back to Russell. So his lawyer's got a chance to appeal. Now, just a quick background. The main reason why they got a chance to appeal is because during the trial, the defense lawyers knew that one of the federal agents involved was already crooked and is going to get arrested. But they were not allowed to use that as part of their defense. Another federal agent, they did not even know about, was also crooked, who got arrested soon after the sentencing of Russellberg. So kind of that, that was the main thing. And this is also the first time, unfortunately, like I said, I wasn't there for the trial. But, I don't want to get people's hopes up. But I was a little frustrated. The lawyer could not make a Russellberg's lawyer. I felt did not make coherent arguments. The way it works is the defense lawyer stands up in front of three judges and states the case why it needs to be retried. And then the three judges fire really hard questions at the lawyer because they don't want to retry the case, obviously. I mean, that's a lot of it's a waste of a lot of government resources. Then the prosecutor, the government prosecutor stands up in front of the same person. Three judges, why the case was fair and just and it doesn't need to be retried. And then the judges also fire questions at the prosecutor. And then finally, the defense Russellberg's defense lawyer gets one more chance to rebuttal. So here's how it went and why I am very disappointed. I'm trying to be optimistic, but as a realist and to be honest to my audience, it's going to be a miracle. I would be very happily surprised if he gets an appeal. So he started to state the case that it was the secret service agents that that were crooked and it needs to be retried. And the judges fired back and they said, well, would that have made a difference? Do you have any specific evidence that will allow you to say that, yes, so and so was difference in the case? And the lawyer was like, he wasn't prepared. Almost said, well, I'm not sure. It was just like so much ifs and bots and I wish I really wish I was standing up there with zero lawyer training. So it's the I felt that the judges, their job, the Ross Ubrook's lawyer, when they were questioning the prosecution, my takeaway was that the three judges, one of whom is very anti surveillance, most vocal felt like the judges were on the side of Ross Ubrook that the sentencing of two life sentences without the probability of parole was and they even questioned that part against the prosecution. So they were trying him as a kingpin and the prosecution was arguing because they had evidence that like six people have overdosed and died and one of those people actually spoke in court. And the federal judge and they said, well, how does that compare to other cases? The fact that you were able to put a greeting mother in front of the jury would have completely swayed the case in your direction, making it, you know, making him out to be such a bad guy when like we said earlier, he never actually sold the drugs. He was just an admin of the site. And then they, and then a judges that said, well, was there direct evidence that the draw that the over those drugs were actually purchased from Silk Road and that I asked some of the people, was this something that the defense lawyer argued in court and they said, well, not so much. It's like, oh my God, that is so obvious. Why can't you argue that the prosecution needs to prove that the drugs that caused you over those prove that they were Silk Road drugs and not drugs off the street that came up from the judges. The judges were talking about the murder for hire, which was a chat. They used a chat where drug-powered robberts offered to pay like 600 bit coin or whatever. I don't remember the amount, don't quote me on that for a murder for hire, but the murder for hire never actually took place. But he was not a charge with murder for hire. So I don't understand is we're bringing it up as to why he deserves such a big sentence against the defense attorney, where the defense attorney didn't hold his ground and say, but that's irrelevant because the prosecution used that in order to deny him parole, but they never charged him with that. They never argued that in court. That was something in the very beginning of the trial that was kind of dropped because they couldn't prove it. So that was another thing that I thought that the defense lawyer was someone spineless on and didn't challenge the fact that that fact relevant. But again, like I'm not a lawyer, I wasn't there for the trial. This was just my third party observation sitting there. Things that I found that literally had my jaw drop was the fact that the prosecution said that the defense had plenty of time to analyze the computer because the defense was saying that well, because of these crooked law enforcement agents that we found out about so late, there could have been a lot of things done with the computer that a lot of fraud could have been could have they could have planted evidence and all that stuff. And then the prosecution says, well, the defense has had plenty of time. They had 10 months to prove whether something, whether some individual evidence was doctored. And the defense did not like justify themselves by saying no, that is totally not true. There was like millions of bites of data in that computer. They need to know what arged with it. They need to know who the parties are that had access to the Silk Road as the admins. And whether those admins were corrupt government employees. And then now that you know who these people are, then you can go and analyze this data. It's like they were expecting the defense to bring up experts to prove that data could have been corrupted without knowing which data could which parts of that data they need to look for to know if it was corrupted or not. And one more thing, there's just so much there. It was like that that hearing was really, really something. Also the judges, like the judges were the smartest people in the room. It was incredible. I have a kind of have a lot of respect for federal judges, maybe not for a lot of their views, but for their ability to process information. And one of those judges looked like he was like 65, 70 years old. Their ability to process information and fire back with hard questions was impressive. Though they did have like time to prepare. They had like books like this with like what statements. So they were a piece. But still they were asking some good questions. And I thought that the defense was not prepared to answer them. Another thing on that situation was like I said, I thought those judges seeing reasons and they were grilling the prosecution as to why Ross got such an unfair sentencing of two years, sorry, two life sentences not two years. That's what I meant to say. And they were saying there was a letter that the defense wrote. I forgot how they phrased it. They used a specific term like a reduction in like a safety like making drugs safer. They used the term. I it was like two words. I forgot what it was. They said it was the like basically so production. Harm reduction. Thank you. So the defense tried to also claim that so crowd provided harm reduction. They didn't develop that at all. I mean, the judges didn't buy it because it wasn't properly articulated. It should have been a major case. There should have been a major part of the case showing that the drugs had user rated systems. The sellers had user rated systems. They should have brought in some statistics if they can find them somehow or even doing like a poll from so crowd users to help us out. Please, I can know right in how it would have helped you. Treats to buy drugs. The federal judges. Enchanted this harm reduction statement that the defense made. The defense. The defense. I felt that the defending lawyer couldn't articulate this concept of a harm reduction. I was just disappointed. I really, really was. I thought it was like an oh my god. It's automatic. They're definitely going to get the appeal. They're going to retry the case. And if they get to retry this case, it's only because the judges see that the sentencing was flat out on just. I worked out of there like a little disappointed. I don't want to like a flintelbrook sees this. I don't want to like low. I don't want to like bring down like her hopes. But I hope he gets an appeal. He obviously doesn't deserve it. But just I thought it could have been done so, so much better. The judges see the things that went wrong with that case. But it should have been our I don't know what else I can say other than. That articulated significantly better. But they had no chance from the beginning. They should have run him as a political prisoner. They should have went with the what's it called. With Jerry notification where you reject the drug laws and the drug war and all that stuff. But we're running out of time. My story of the week is the San Francisco Giants or the playoffs go giants. And the blue angels are performing on my roof. So I have to get back to filming that. Because that's like what I'm all about right now. I can hear them. I can hear them. So. Hold on. Hold on. Somebody has the question. Wait. Are they going to retry the case? Okay. So they're trying to get an appeal to retry the case. Now that the judge that the three federal judges have heard the reasons for the appeal from the defense attorney. As thought it wasn't good, but it was hopefully was enough. And the judge the three federal judges got to question the prosecutors. These three federal judges will now take X amount of time. It would be a week, could be three months to vote. The three judges feel that the case needs to be retried. It will be retried. I'm pretty sure they just did the boom where they set off all the car alarms because they fly so low. So I really got to get up on the roof. Do you guys want to talk to him forever? Do you want to end the show? End the show. You know, everyone knows I don't mind talking forever. There's a lot of people. I'll let you people vote for us. But I'm going to be up on the roof. All right. I'm out of here. All right, guys. I'm going to retry the case. Until next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.