The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Theo Goodman from Hasse online. Good evening everyone. The Rare Pay Pay Revolution continues. Gabriel Divine from Future Rant. Hello Internet, hello posterity. Tone Vays from Liberty Life Trail. Hi everyone. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one unlimited grants. Roger Vier is back and this time he's got bounties. I always favor the Greeks even when they bring gifts. The Bitcoin Unlimited team announced this week that they have several hundred thousand dollars in bounties ready to pay out for the solution to scaling Bitcoin. Spoiler alert, the solution is segregated witness followed by inflating the block size to two megabytes and then inflating it slowly thereafter. Go ahead and send me my check. Theo Goodman, your thoughts on Bitcoin Unlimited, now with bounties. Now someone will get paid something that's good. And if you want to look, always look on the bright side of life, right? Someone said that before. If you go out something, who knows? You know, there's smart people doing research or whatever and maybe they figure out something. But we do have a very big problem right now that needs solving urgently. Is that some users of rare paper trading token cards when they do transactions on the decentralized counterparty exchange, they have to wait too long and it's becoming more and more popular. So in order for us to treat frogs with the same rights as humans, we need to increase the block size. I mean, that's the only fair thing to do. You know, ADL, if you don't get your stuff in order, the ALF is going to come visit you. Set the rare Pepe's free Gabriel Divon. Well I am looking into the Bitcoin Unlimited. This is about Roger Veeer, right? We don't even do the disclaimer anymore. The crusade continues. I mean, I'm confused by this Pepe talk. I feel like it went off subject a little bit there. But are we discussing the unlimited? What's the question? I got totally confused there. The question is Bitcoin unlimited in the value of the grants that they're now putting on the table. Hundreds of dollars for us. I was giving an example of why Bitcoin needs to scale urgently. Why we urgently need bigger blocks because the Pepe trading card freedom of trade is being hampered. We cannot transact in rare Pepe tokens worldwide without government interference unless we urgently increase the blocks now. Big blocks, more Pepe's now. Just one of many examples of reasons why we should scale. I think nobody disagrees with the Pepe's and general transactions for various uses. It's just how we scale that is under question here. This is obviously Roger Veeer and anybody else that he could come along with to help him fund this effort. I am just looking at the Bitcoin unlimited GitHub right now. It's clicking around. I'm seeing that there were some commits within the last month, not a whole lot. Most of it looks like it's not getting that many. That much use. There are 10,000 commits to it. It's definitely an active project, even if it's a little slow lately. They're trying to get some people to work on. I see here that they are not using the latest Bitcoin core pull requests or features. This is an outdated client that would probably have issues with any transactions that are using the latest .13 Bitcoin core features. This project, I think I did the general approach that's going on here, which is to allow users to determine what block size they want. It's just that that is extremely risky. From a general approach, I think it's interesting. I do believe that we're going to need to find some sort of flex size approach to block size in the future. We have to do it in a very, very careful way. Just allowing users to set their own block size is risky. I think it's risky. The type of approach that you would take in a test environment. I think that running something like this on the Bitcoin test net is a great idea. This should be tried. I wanted to point out a little paragraph at the bottom of the fact page. Here it is. In Bitcoin Unlimited, we hope to eventually track all non-trivial forks and visually indicate when transactions have been confirmed on all forks, eliminating the possibility of a double spend. In other words, allowing users to set their own block size automatically creates hard forks that they have to track in the software. That's one of the main functions of Bitcoin Unlimited. If that doesn't sound risky to you, then maybe you should read up on what hard forks are. This will allow users to use the Bitcoin network normally during these periods. However, since we do not believe that these periods will last long because they will cause the dramatic drop in my inner revenue, it is not a priority. The reasoning is that confusing hard forks that cause double spend issues, at least in the short term, won't be a problem because miners will suffer. Pretty specious. I mean, you're immediately admitting that your product is going to cause lots of short at least short term hard forks that will damage miners' income. It's just strange and also saying that they don't believe it so that they're estimating and sort of hypothesating that it won't affect anything. It seems awfully risky of a thing to run on a network that has a market cap of $10 billion of value. It's a little extreme. Once again, I do think that something like a flex size proposal is a good idea in the long term, but we should be studying this, putting out more white papers to just random or not randomly, but to just release a client into the wild that is supposed to run on the Bitcoin network. Well, I think what that is is basically people who want to cause a hard fork and they're trying to minimize that attitude and trying to make it seem like it's not that big of a deal that this project is likely to cause many, at least one, if not many hard forks. It's definitely a bit specious, but hey, more power to them. Bitcoin is meant to be attacked. Bitcoin is designed to be attacked. I think that these bounties are quite interesting. Some people who are maybe not small block believers may come in and say, more power to them. They're going to spend their money on this client, building up this client. Unfortunately for them, they can't convince anybody to run it against their will. Be sure that due to the incredible risks that this project poses to the Bitcoin ecosystem, I don't believe that it will be adopted to any great degree. Perhaps the risks are unlimited. I do think they have a plan for all those hard forks. They could collect them together and sell them. Hard forks are very valuable. Tone veys. Oh, man. Oh, man. Actually, I agree with pretty much everything Gabriel just said. I will give it a disclaimer to Roger there. I have to. I'm friends with him. I was just chatting with him like yesterday. Not about this. We don't talk about block size anymore. We save those arguments for an in-person chat. I try not to go out with him occasionally. Our paths end up crossing on Twitter. I don't agree with him on this and I don't agree with the bounty system for this. There are several reasons for starters. They're not going to get any good developers because the best developers are already at core. So they're getting second hand developers in my guess. I know Gavin will probably be on board and maybe Mike Hurn will come back and that will be unfortunate. So I don't consider the top developers if they were, they would still be working with the core team. My other issue with it is, so I already know what developers they're going to get. They're going to get the old coin developers because they're the ones that are in it for money. And people always make fun of you. They're like, what, you expect people to program projects for free? I'm like, if they're open source, I do. In the beginning, I do. I want my developers to program it because they believe in this idea, not for the paycheck. Because then you will never have anything revolutionary. One of the reasons why Bitcoin is word is today is because multiple people put in a lot of work into doing this for free, looking for to make this science project work. If all you have is people submitting ideas for that paycheck, they don't care. They just want to get their code in, get paid, and they don't care what happens after. This is a theorem. Basically, everyone that started a theorem has left except Vitalik. And sooner or later, Vitalik is going to go to. But that's just not how I want to see my open source project work, which is why they're kind of slow, which is why they're on adapt all that well. But they work. And the important thing is that Bitcoin works. And this thing is going to be forking left and right. I'm not even worried about it anymore. I was worried when XT came out. I was worried when Bitcoin Classic came out. I am not worried about Bitcoin unlimited at all. I don't think it has any teeth. I don't think it's going to stay. That money would be better served by spending half of it on Bitcoin and spending the other half and just give it to block stream. There are probably one of the few organizations that I know of that doesn't waste money that they have. So again, sorry, Roger. I completely disagree with you. This is not needed. I personally think it's going to make things worse. Segwood is about to come out. It might even make the block size a little too big in my opinion. But I'm not an engineer. I'm not a scientist. So my opinion doesn't mean anything. My economic view of it. We have to avoid forks at all costs. Having one good developer team where the people do program it because they believe in Bitcoin, not just for the paycheck is the most important thing we can have and we have it. I'm not happy that there being pull left and right to break this up. Moving on to the exit question, exit question on a scale of one to 10, zero, one being not embarrassing. He's correct. And we're all crazy to 10, a complete and manic break with reality. Where would you rate Roger Veris crusade for bigger blocks? Be okay. I would have to say 11. We're totally crazy and everyone is manically nuts and it's both things all together at the same time in a circle together. And I just wanted to remind everybody in the chat. The address in the chat so it can rain, rare pay pay tokens were given away, pay pay cash. There are some representatives in the chat. Make sure to do that. We can transact on the blockchain and show everybody that we need bigger blocks now. Gabriel, D. Von. You know, I'm not really willing to put a number on it. I mean, I definitely think that Core has the right approach taking an extremely conservative weight and sea attitude and developing as much as they can with our current block size and making the most of that, making it as efficient as possible. But nobody really knows and we definitely could be wrong. So I'm just going to be agnostic on this one. We're big in a lower number. Tone vase. I mean, look, I know Roger Veris is a smart guy. I like Roger Ver on this particular issue. I'm going to give him a 7.5. I, you know, hell, I can always be wrong on things, but I'll give him a 7.5. But we should ask him what score he's giving me. Tone is absolutely correct. The correct answer is 7. 7 is the correct answer. Moving on to issue two, issue two, Bitcoin and India. Bitcoin startup Uno Coin raised $1.5 million this week. The most ever for an Indian Bitcoin startup is they continue to spread the word about Bitcoin, allowing their customers to buy and sell the fledgling cryptocurrency in India with more than 100,000 customers and 30 employees. Is India the next China? Will Bitcoin take off in India? Gabriel, Devon. I think India is an incredibly interesting and primed market. The Bitcoin ecosystem have been keeping their eyes on India for at least three, four years because of their history investing in sound assets like gold. They love gold there. They give it also culturally as gift. And culturally, I think it's quite related to banking over the last few centuries. You know, people there don't trust banks for good reason. So on that level, it's great. On the tech side, you have a huge millions upon millions of extremely tech savvy individuals that have been trained in excellent academies in India that churn out masses of developers who are extremely tech proficient. And so then you have that that side as well. So you have both ingredients. A currency that's had some issues in the past. The RUPI is not always the most sound fiat. So people are very, you know, wary of using it and wary of keeping their savings in it. People are aware that it's risky. So I think Bitcoin has a really positive potential in India. But of course, volumes are still very low. The penetration into the culture and society is extremely minimal too. So nobody can really say for certain, but boy, the potential certainly looks great. And as far as I can tell, you know, coin is just a brokerage kind of like coinbase or maybe an exchange as well. That's obviously the first on ramping type of corporation to come to new markets. Very, very important. And I feel like with the US government taking a relatively hands-off, gloves off approach recently and over the past few years to Bitcoin on the whole. India as a main trading partner and as a main ally of the United States is likely to do the same. I think that is quite bullish for Bitcoin over the long term. But we'll see how long it takes to hit a tipping point over there. What we need next is a Bollywood musical about Bitcoin. Tone Vays. I'm sure that's coming. I mean, I saw the Vietnamese movie when I was in Vietnam. They had a movie. It was called Bitcoin HIGH. So I actually enjoyed it. We went to like the pre-screening of it. So I am with Gabriel. I like Bitcoin's prospects in India for several reasons. Gabe did mention gold and I'm going to highlight that some more. So in the last few years, gold was becoming popular. But as like most governments, they like to have control of their currency. So I've seen the, what do you call them? When you're landing in an foreign country, you've got to fill out one of those cards on the airplane. What are they called? Customs card. Customs claim. I've seen the Indian customs card and you actually have to declare if you're bringing any gold into the country and even if you're wearing jewelry above the stated amount in gold or other precious metals, I guess, that were specific to gold. So they're starting to crack down. I read one article a few years ago where if you wrap on someone smuggling gold into the country to the authorities, you would get a better, bigger reward than if you'd ratted on someone who was smuggling heroin into the country. So they were, so they might double down on the gold. Now it's gold is actually part of their culture. But when some of the people say, hey, those that are using gold is a straight up investment, they're going to discover that Bitcoin works incredibly well. I have met a few people that work in Unokoi and I like to, I like to go out. I know I've had some interactions with some of their other core team over there on Twitter. I like that team. I would love to go visit that company if I'm ever in Bangalore, which hopefully I will be one day, I haven't made it to India yet. That would be great. I wish them the best. I hope that they are priority number one is Bitcoin security because everyone else has been hacked and they probably will as well. They need to seriously focus all of their energy and have that funding that they got, the 1.5 million. My luck if they're listening. I recommend spending at least 25 to 50% of that funding on securing your Bitcoin. It is one of the biggest challenges in the world and maybe that's the team. I mean, I looked at their bios. They're all pretty much engineers. Just that I'm did come from the virtual reality world. I'm not sure how critical security is in the virtual reality world but not nearly as much as it is in Bitcoin. My advice to them is to focus on that. I thought that they have a 100,000 users. I find that, I'm not sure, that's kind of hard to believe. That's a lot of users. I hope that's not like just wallets but I hope that those are actual independent users. I don't know about their KYC AML requirements. I hope they are the minimum. They are allowed to make them without going to prison. So I hope they're staying on that line of things. And I kind of like what I'm like hearing out of India these days. They're trying to remove a lot of the laws, remove some of the bureaucracy because they've been known to have insane bureaucracy in order to have a more pre-marketish environment. So I wish a while. I think India is a very good market for Bitcoin. Theo, good. Yeah, I agree. It's a big market. There are a lot of people there. And yeah, they definitely have the tradition of gold and silver, precious metals is a big deal there. Physical gold and silver, especially jewelry trades at crazy premiums there. There's very high demand. And I was not able to pull up or find the exact webpage but believe in 2013 or 2014, the government did even law that said the banks were not allowed to store any more precious metals for people. Because people were buying too much. The word just buying tons of it. And the government was getting afraid that people were buying too much and the rupee was having a crisis then too. I can see it's the exact date of that. I don't know for 100% sure if it's still the case. But the government definitely does pay attention to how much precious metals people are buying. And yeah, definitely Bitcoin could be an option for people. Of course, it weighs less. Easier to transport. And you can hedge against the rupee probably. I don't know the exact correlation right now but I'm pretty sure that would definitely be a way to do that. So yeah, great. It's off. People can learn about Bitcoin there. And especially now with smartphones as cheap as they are and stuff, I'm sure that they're ready to go. I agree with the panel very excited about the future of India and Bitcoin and Unokoi. Good guys. Moving on to the exit question. If not India, where next? Name the next country to get Bitcoin fever. Gabriel Devon. I'm going to say South Korea. Those gaming type of things. Yeah, color coins, that type of stuff. Token. Yeah. Starcraft coin. Vays. Oh man, that's a tough one. I don't know. I want to say Vietnam because their currency is just constantly devaluating. So I really want to say Vietnam but I've been to Vietnam. No one really. Not many people know what's going on over there. Hopefully Dominic will keep spreading the word. There's like a cool picture. There are some offices there like the coin ATM machines and a nice big Bitcoin sign right next door, what's your union sign. So I'm hoping Vietnam is prime. It's prime. I mean, they're a cash society and they will need to go digital sooner or later. They just don't trust their government. So I'll go with that one. Theo, good. Well, you stole my answer a little bit. Dominic is co-founder of the Bitcoin Meetup here in Frankfurt, Germany and Wish and Well in Vietnam. Let's see what happens there in Vietnam. But yeah, I think that it's pretty much under the radar right now. At least that's the, I haven't been to Vietnam but that's the impression I got from what's going on there. And also ladies and gentlemen, check it out. I think it's a transmission 23 here on the World Crypto Network. You can watch about a 30 minute interview where I talked to Dominic from Bitcoin Vietnam about. That is, and that was in summer 2015, but it's a good time stamp and he talks about a few basic things about what's going on in Vietnam and he's really at the basics. How do you do it? And what is really interesting though is that I'm going to stay with Vietnam as a short answer and is turning into a long answer, but that's okay. He gave, and on the interview too, he pretty much gave the reality of the remittance things where you're on Bitcoin conferences and people say, yeah, it costs $10 to send money, but normally that's not true because people are real clever. So even if it did cost and money, they have groups of people that do it all together. So they only have to pay once and they just redistribute it when it gets there and they know the cheapest ways to do it. So you're competing. He's found where he does have a remittance thing going on, but I don't know how much it's being used. So let's see, but I'm for, let's say Southeast Asia. Yeah, I'm going to jump in for one second. The conference that we had out there or people together out there, I was one of the speakers. I was called BlockFanAsia. So you can probably Google that on YouTube. Some of the videos have come out and some of the bank representatives I know came out and were willing to learn. So I was my anti-government rhetoric down when I was doing my presentations there, but that's okay. It was for the greater good. I was going to say Mexico, but I'm going to agree with the panel to go with Vietnam. Vietnam. Moving on to issue three. Issue three, beware of trading one coin. The British FCA, the financial conduct organization warned that consumers should be wary of trading or mining one coin. One coin which bills itself a superior to Bitcoin, plans to double all users' coins by October, featuring a well-oiled multi-level marketing plan where new users are not invited not only to invest at the minimum level of $10,000, but also to invite their friends to invest more. Tones, your thoughts on the FCA's warning about one coin? Oh, God. So if anyone who's watching this knows how to trade one coin or how do you actually mine one coin, please leave a comment below the video because I'm curious. I mean, it's not open-minded. I know that. They just take your money. I believe it's centralized. It's centralized ledger. They just double your coins. That's why I think it's unfortunate. You can't short them. Right. I don't even know what exchange trades are. I mean, the reason why people have asked me like, oh, how come you're not scam-busting one coin? There's no challenge there. Not a single Bitcoiner would be scammed by one coin. It is unreasonably obvious to all of us to anyone watching this of how much of a scam it is. To me, it's not much different than, say, steam it. Yet no one sees steam it as a scam, but everyone sees one coin as a scam. To me, they're exactly the same, but only one coin is making way more money at the moment, which is why it's on the regulators radar. People have to realize that the reason why the authorities are looking into one coin is because way more money was invested. I mean, people are investing 30, 40, 50,000 dollars. They're cash and out. They're retirement funds and giving them to other people. It's insane. It's absolutely insane. It's obvious to anyone watching this video what a scam one coin is. Well, and that's part of the problem. It's so hard to spread the word about this one coin scam because the people that they're hitting are not technologists. They're not cutting edge cyber punks or libertarians or these liberty rights people. We have their normal people presumably being hit by these multi-level marketing schemes. They're coming in to see the seminar and they have the guys with the presentations and the big speech and everything. And then they invest and they tell their friends. As much as we want to warn people about one coin, there's not much we can do. The people that are getting into one coin are not into Bitcoin. So they're not getting this necessary education. And all the people that are pitching one coin and doing these seminars, they mentioned Bitcoin and then they talk about all the bad parts of Bitcoin. And then when you talk to some of these one coin people and I haven't talked to many of them, I don't bother attending those meetings. But if what you do, when I do occasionally run across the one coin people, I'm going to try to tell them it's a scam. Their answer to me is, well, if one coin is a scam, so is Bitcoin. And anyone that tells me the same thing for a theory, I've gotten this about a theory and I've gotten this about steam it. I've gotten the same answer about every old coin. Just remember, anytime you try to convince me that a theory or a steam that are not scams, you're telling me exactly the same thing that one coin people are. So anyone in the theory, anyone in steam it, anyone in a lot of these app coins that were pre-mined and handed out and proof of stake on top of that, you are one coin. Just remember that. You are one coin. One coin is just doing it better than you because the founders are making insane amount of money from other people. Granted, their coin isn't actually being live traded. So it's not going up 20X like Ethereum did. But they definitely have taken in more money than the Ethereum crowd sale did. It's just that the Ethereum token went up based on hype because all those people need to cash out. The problem and put the bag onto someone else so the next set of people are pumping it. But when it comes to one coin, you can't really sell it. So all their efforts as this money is rolling in from retirees, $20,000, $30,000 at a time, all their efforts are spent convincing all of these people not to cash out the one coin and that they will double their one coin. They will tell them anything because they can't actually cash them out. It's a straight up Ponzi scheme. So I don't know, after one coin gets taken down and implodes, it will be an obvious blueprint, no different than pay coin. And that will be one of my examples going forward. I'll talk more about Ethereum and steam it and what's coming out. Zcash, the Zuko thing. That will probably be another one. I haven't gotten to that one yet. I'll get to it. There will be as bad as all those other ones. So an endless future of endless scam coins created by people looking to rip off the next new person into crypto. Is this what Bitcoin has brought? Is this what we've created? Is this the path to a new currency? Is 100 scams, 1000 scams? I'm going to quote Theo with one sentence before I give it off to him. So creating a generation of backholders. And I don't know what I give it to Theo. Theo, good. Yeah, okay. First of all, let's clear up a few things about one coin. Let's set the story straight, ladies and gentlemen, one coin on the one coin exchange, only accessible to one coin members through their one coin website. So it's definitely traded. I mean, there was this guy. He invested 10,000. He's already doubled his money the other day. So he's holding and what he did is he put that 10,000 right back in and he reinvested. And so now he's really heavily invested in it. And he's really, I just checked the exchange, he just checked the exchange the other day and he told me, he's making so much. I don't know. I think all these people that are talking about it being a scam are just simply jealous about it. And of course one coin is mined. They're the scientist, you know, that lady, what's her name? Yeah, she's a scientist and she graduated from a very well known university and she's really smart and she's talking about mining all the time. I think they're going to use one of those extra algorithms. But that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. We are not appealing point, not me. I'm not in it, but one coin is not appealing to the tech savvy. I do what Bitcoin failed doing. They say they say that Bitcoin failed at getting to the regular people. One coin is supposed to be a coin for the everyday person to make money. So basically to break it down, but it's only at this mysterious exchange controlled by one coin. It's mind, but nobody knows how it works. So probably they just move a number on the database and this lady gives talks about it. And the thing that they do that's very damaging to Bitcoin is they use Bitcoin videos and they slap one coin on it. So they're like, I've even seen like videos of Andreas talking or something and they'll put one coin on it and like at the end they'll be like, and went up and value and it created a revolution. That's what one coin can do for you and things like that. So it's pretty amazing what they're doing. You know, people, I don't really know why people fall for all this, but I guess they do. They see other people getting rich for free and they think they can get rich for free too. So it's just a lesson to be learned. And if you're thinking about investing in one coin off making a wallet over at counter, IO, counter party wallet, going over to the decentralized change and buying as many rare pay pay cards as you possibly can. So a good point, Theo. Part of the thing with one coin is this is what I thought Bitcoin should have done in the first place. We should be having conferences. We should be giving presentations. We should be advertising the Bitcoin. But unfortunately there is no Bitcoin, the company and no one seems to want to invest in this. There's this gap and that that vacuum has been filled by one coin. And if you think about it, they're better at marketing. They're better at seminars. They're better at scamming checks out of retirees, Bitcoiners, technology people are not good at any of these things. We would be very bad at our presentations. We wouldn't scam the checks out. We wouldn't say 10,000 is only a place to start. We just we have too many ethics, I think. There's something special about one coin. I think two coin, three coin, four coin, all of the followers will be good as well. Gabriel D. Vaughan, what do you think about one coin? Well I got to say that I'm very disappointed in these supposed financial conduct organization. Took them so long to find this relatively large and successful scam. I mean, what are we paying? One of those poor British citizens paying all those taxes for these incompetent regulators that take some entire 16 months to whatever this scam has been running in order to issue a warning about it. It's just ridiculous. These people are totally clueless. One coin is what I think we could do. The journal look for silver lining here. There's one coin. They're excellent at marketing. The problem is that all their marketing is scam-oriented and it's geared toward people who are idiots. Anybody with any sense is going to be turned off. Unfortunately, we can't really take any marketing tips. I'm trying to look for that silver lining. Basically, the crypto game is last man standing. It's going to take years to shake out. People on this show, we generally believe Bitcoin for sure will be a man standing. It's possible that there may be more than one, but I really doubt that more than one coin will act as a new reserve currency to speak, not in a nation-state point of view, but as a unit of account. I think it's going to be Bitcoin. I think it's really just all of these scams work toward that point of last man standing. We're going to see all these scams come and go. After a while, people will just chuckle it off. Eight, nine years from now, maybe it might take that long or longer. People are going to be like, why would I use that instead of Bitcoin? Well, genuinely, people will be more familiar with these cryptocurrencies and it'll be people will genuinely be able to apply it to their lives. Just like the Silk Road users applied it to their lives. I get this problem where I want to sell something that's illegal, but the money is all tracking if I do it at a distance. This Bitcoin thing solves my problem. Same thing for whatever developing country, software developers going on a website and they don't want to have to get killed by Amazon gift card margins or whatever it is on mechanical Turk. Why would I do that when I get Bitcoin? It'll be worth more tomorrow than it's worth today. I think that type of functional approach to cryptocurrencies will happen as they penetrate into society. People will become more and more enured to these speculation. Even Bitcoiners are all speculating. It's being used, but speculation is a dangerous period where you can really, really as we see, take advantage of the naive in these crowd sales, these ICOs, initial crypto offerings. There's so, so much scam and I think it was only a matter of time before some real professional level con people. I don't want to call them con men because I know it's generally organized by this horrible criminal woman at the top of the organization. We're going to see more of these. I think it's going to be a real boom times for scams and cons over the next 10 years. Finally, gender equality comes to con men with con people. Go ahead. I want to briefly push back on Gabriel a little bit on something you said. I don't think 16 months of the regulators waiting to go after one coin is unreasonable. I think that's fine because we could have been sitting here 11 saying the same thing about Bitcoin. I'll come to regulators and shutting this scam down. I didn't really see Bitcoin as a scam back then. I knew about it. I first heard about Bitcoin in late 2010. Of course, I'm an idiot. I didn't actually buy into it till the Cypress events happened. I heard about it in 2010 because of WikiLeaks and I kind of somewhat kept my ear on it. No one told me. I never had a single friend in the Bitcoin world. When I was trying to buy a Bitcoin, I didn't know anyone. I just had to Google how the hell do I figure this out. The first time I ever met another Bitcoiner, other than the guy I bought him from was late 2013 when you were Bitcoin 10 or open. I didn't know anyone. We could have been saying the same thing. This is new for the regulators. They have no idea what they're doing. They can't tell once again from another. In the case of one coin, you should have heard rumors by now that people are dumping their retirement savings, which isn't illegal. I think that one's harder. I've been recently blamed for SEC goes after Ethereum. Apparently, it's going to be my fault, but that's okay. One coin is hard because there isn't really anything they are. People are just like investing in something that doesn't exist. Well, if we were one of our having the same exact seminars and we had these slick people in suits, we had the presentations. At the end of it, we told you to buy Bitcoin. How is that different than the one coin? Because we don't actually have to... It depends how we're selling them Bitcoin. Are we actually teaching them how to install a wallet and they have control of their Bitcoin? Or are we taking their money holding on to your Bitcoin? I think the main thing is that we're not in control of the supply of Bitcoin. With one coin, they're in control of the supply. They've created it. It's a lot easier for them to turn around and sell it. That's true, but then these people, even if they have access to one coin, there's really not much they can do with it. Yeah, that's a big difference because you're right. You're exactly right. We're not in control of the supply of Bitcoin and they are in control of the supply of one coin. It's blatantly obvious. I try not to focus on the obvious. I try to get people all fired up and hating me for stating that not so obvious. Which is why I've turned this discussion into comparing one coin to steam it in Ethereum. Which is well into the exit question. Exit question, what's your favorite scam coin? Tone vase will start with you. Oh, God. What do you mean by favorite? Like my biggest nemesis as a scam coin? I don't know. It's tough to say favorite, most damaging. I mean, it's hard to really celebrate these things. They screw up people's lives. I mean, I'll have to wait. So I guess the most legit scam coin, if we can call it that, to me, the two most legit altcoins out there are in no particular order, a life coin and Ethereum. I don't really consider those scams. I just consider those out of consensus Bitcoin forks to steal a phrase from me. From a poll store. As far as actual scams go, my current biggest nemesis is steam it. I admit is Ethereum. My favorite scam coin would be Paycoin. Because I had a great time at the Bitcoin Miami conference that was sponsored by Paycoin. They had their logo up everywhere. They had three different booths. That's how serious they were as a company. And now where are they? Where's the $20 floor? Where's the $20? I was there as well. I've also been a big fan of Aurora Coin since the date came out. I've been trying to highlight that one. There was an article recently. I got somebody tagged me on Facebook or something and they're like, hey, what do you think of this article? And it was like the top five failures in the cryptocurrency world. And that dial was number one, of course. And Paycoin was number two. And then they had the other ones. And then I emailed the guy, I'm like, dude, where's Aurora Coin? They had a $1 billion market cap. It had the third biggest market cap of all time. How is that not in the top three of biggest crypto failures? So the whole of a wrote that article. They got back to me. Yeah, missed that one. There are so many. It's hard to keep track. I think including Dow tokens as an altcoin is also a good idea. Theo Goodman, what's your favorite scam coin? That's a good question. So I'm going to answer that in two ways, two-part answer. The first answer is Leo Coin. That is L-E-O. And that is to draw attention to Coin, which is called Leo Coin. Now, explain because what they did, they kind of did buffet scam. So it's kind of like, I mean, have mining. This one guy from Mintcoin said, oh, you just stole our whole concept, basically. It said it was yours. And they're doing proof of stake. And then they have crowdfunding platform. And they have. I mean, they just were like, OK, let's just take a little bit from everything and build it into this one thing. And we'll call it Leo Coin. And you can buy it kind of like how you buy one coin. You just go to the website and buy it. It's too. They just did everything. So it's kind of just confusing to people in a way. It's just too much information. I think at one point, they were saying we're anonymous. And we're not anonymous. I mean, they're just doing every feature, every little thing to get someone basically at the same time. Now, of course, an important part is that my second favorite or my true favorite, excuse me, would have to be Ponzi Pepe, which is a limited edition blockchain trading card available on the counterparty decks, which is on the Bitcoin blockchain. And it is an animated GIF blockchain trading card. Definitely check that out. Ponzi Pepe. Hey, can I comment on this real quick? Because Leo Coin, I've actually worked on a panel in Hong Kong in 2015. And I'm assuming the founders name is Leo. And he was on the panel with me. And I've never heard of Leo Coin. And I'm on stage on the same panel as this guy. And this was the first time I ever said, I ever like accused someone of being a scam in real time as I learned about what they were doing in front of an entire audience. So if anyone, I know Jerry David was on the panel with me. So if anyone watching this that attended Inside Bitcoin's event in Hong Kong, this was a panel on crypto for small business. And I literally called him out of scam right there on the stage on our panel. Wow. Isn't Bitcoin great? Like you can learn about something, discover it's a scam, call it out as a scam, all right there, while you're there to make a speech. That's great. Gabriel D. Vine, did you have a favorite scam coin? I did. It turns out that Theo kind of segue into it unintentionally. They're my favorite one is just from the straight up the name and the wonderful marketing, Ponzi Coin. So the guy they created, Ponzi Coin, created this quote unquote game. It's like a gambling game. You get 120% for how much you put in. So people would put their Bitcoin in. And for a while, he paid it out. And then he stopped paying it out and made about $7,000 a couple of years ago before everyone figured out that it was a Ponzi scheme. But I'd like about it is that it's, what do you call it? Does what it says it's called. It did. It's truth in labeling. It's right there in the title. Thank you. Truth in labeling, truth in marketing, and truth in advertisement just says what it is. I think that's fine. I don't think that Ponzi scheme should be illegal. What's a problem is when people pretend that steam it is a wonderful content that's totally great. And it doesn't just draw off the wealth of pumpers or that one coin is this amazing new paradigm shift when it's just a big scam. If you say, hey, I'm making a Ponzi scheme. Jump in and try your luck. I have no problem with that at all. It's gambling, no problem. Yeah, but I don't think people can really understand how bad their luck really is. Let's move on to issue four. Issue four, Deutsche Bank on the verge of collapse. The US Department of Justice is pressuring the bank for $14.5 billion in fines for their role in the 2008 mortgage crisis. The fines would bankrupt the bank, necessitating the need for a bailout that is unlikely from the current German government. The collapse of the mega bank could cause a domino effect of failing banks leading to a worldwide crisis. But I ask you, Theo Goodman, is this good for Bitcoin? I don't know. I don't think it's just kind of neutral for Bitcoin at less for some people in Bitcoin. If that bucket shop has Deutsche Bank shares and they were able to trade it on high leverage that it's just ridiculous and they made a bunch of Bitcoins off it. Or it would be bad for them if they got totally wrecked and liquidated trying to trade it. So that's how it would affect Bitcoin in that way. So we'd either have someone's purchasing power would increase because the Bitcoin would have changed hands in that case. It just kind of creates a little bit uncertainty in the markets. I don't think anyone is gonna see the headline and say, oh, now I have to buy Bitcoin right now directly. But maybe it contributes a little bit to the pile of the whole thing. Is that- I think they should put that in the subtitle for the headline. Deutsche Bank collapsing. You should buy Bitcoin now immediately. Maybe, see, people can crowdfund to add for that. Right? They have to kind of like flash crowdfund and add in a newspaper for that. Deutsche Bank, Galatins in the closet and I'm not sure, I don't think this is the end of their legal troubles. This was just one, not one of the many episodes of it, but we don't know when the other ones are gonna come up. Probably not really close to now as they just had one but who knows? But I kind of doubt it. Just recover for now. And then the next legal issue will come up whether that's with, I don't know, gold and silver fixing or other market manipulation. And they've had all kinds of crazy things. They had their headquarters was rated about, I don't know, it was like three or four years ago because of carbon future trading and they were like, you know, hiding tax money. If they've done everything, if there's a lot of break, they've broken it. It's a good thing we keep these important criminal academies open to secure our economy and protect everyone. Gabriel, D. Vaughan. Well, you know, earlier this summer, someone compiled a bunch of charts and to see how correlated Bitcoin is with the world markets. You know, for example, gold, silver, have a general inverse correlation with, you know, a lot of markets, a lot of financial markets like stocks, equities. Whereas Bitcoin actually came out at approximately neutral zero. It's actually a negative 1%. So it has an extremely slight or no correlation with world markets. My opinion is that is because it's still too small to be sloshed around directly by anything else. It's only a $10 billion market. So it's just kind of follows its own way and its own internal fundamentals and just random whale movements and things like that. There's so much noise and randomness in this tiny market that I don't believe that Deutsche Bank has the direct impact on Bitcoin in the short term. In the long term, the whole idea of banks that are, you know, fractional reserve and doing risky bets and have enormous piles of re-hypothicated, essentially bets, side bets in the form of derivatives. I do believe that that is related to Bitcoin and sort of the idea that a lot of Bitcoiners including myself have is that a sound money-based digital marketplace would have a very different approach to these projects in that you wouldn't have these enormous injections of money just being given to institutions to play with as they will in the vein and vague hopes that they will be able to somehow stimulate the economy. But I, in a sound money, a sound digital money paradigm which is something that has only been thought about in a lot of details since Bitcoin was invented seven years ago, we would have a totally different landscape, completely different. You would have, you know, if you have people taking these risks, you're gonna have that, you know, but once they go out, there's no way to inject capital without convincing somebody to spend their hard earned or hard one sound money, you know, Bitcoin in order to revive it. So I think you'd have a lot more, you know, in the short term, you'd have a lot more collapses and stuff of, you know, bad players. You wouldn't have this zombie bank phenomenon on it, it would be impossible. So in that sense, it is relevant to Bitcoin. And I do think that Deutsche is one of the biggest systemic components of the worldwide economy that is in risk, that's in high visibility, but I agree with tone Vase, I don't know if you've heard of him, but he is often a guest on this program. He made an extremely accurate prediction last night. He said, hey, man, I'm looking at the fundamentals here. And the short term, it looks great. I mean, this is completely oversold. If I was in the markets right now, I would buy a bunch right now. He wasn't talking about, you know, the prospects for Deutsche as a business going forward over the next 10 years or anything. Just talking about the chart, people sold out, everything they had, because they got worried about it. And traders flooded in and the price went up 15% this morning within like an hour and a half of the market opening. So good on tone for seeing that. The story is not quite over yet. And I do think that the long term for Deutsche and the Italian banks that own each other's derivatives and stuff, this is all, it reminds me of, what do you call that game? The rope, the tug of war, where there's this tugging and tugging and then basically everybody falls over each other. It's kind of the financial current financial fiat financial infrastructures version of a blockchain. Instead of that, they're all chained to each other and they're all going to go down the quick sand chain instead. Tone days. Hey, thanks for the shout out, Gabe, I just have to correct one thing. I did not look at their fundamentals. That would be insane. I just looked at their technicals, which was the chart. I misspoke. I miss technicals. Sorry, technical. Yeah, I know, I know you do. I don't think it's humanly possible to look at Deutsche Bank's fundamentals. But of course, I didn't profit from it. That would have been the greatest call of my life. All I have to do was buy $13 calls and I'm an options trader. But what I can promise you is there's a reason why I don't trade directionally. I only recharge and provide unbiased opinions on direction. If I had bought a bunch of Deutsche Bank, we would be talking about the bankruptcy of Deutsche Bank today. And I would have lost all my invested money. I don't trade directionally. I trade direction neutral. It's been working for me. And I liked that way better. I also sleep at night much better. But yeah, so everyone sold yesterday. It was insane. Articles were coming out left and right. All the hedge funds have cashed out everything. And I see this 10x volume spike. But the price didn't really do all that much. I mean, the price barely fell below low week, which was like the Monday price. And I'm like, wait a minute, this means everyone just sold. There's nobody else left to sell. The only place that stock can go now is up. And today it's up 15%. But that's kind of what happens in markets. They don't, things don't collapse when you expect them to collapse. Deutsche Bank will collapse. It will be the biggest failure in Europe. And it's going to take down Germany and the rest of Europe with it. I've been talking about it on my conferences. Brexit was one of the smartest things they've done. I'm not even sure they're actually going to leave. I think it was just like a token vote. But assuming they see the writing on the wall with this, Deutsche Bank is probably the most over leverage bank there is. And one of their problems is the fact that they have deposits. So after the 2008 stuff, the government said, you know what, let's not put tax money up risk anymore. So no more bailouts. That's what Merkel said. But that means now they have bail ins. So if you have your money at Deutsche Bank, you are now a member of the bail and club. Now they're not going to rob your deposit if you are a retail banker with a few thousand bucks that pays your bills. But if you're a business and you have, you know, if you're a small business, you have maybe a hundred, two hundred thousand euros in the bank for your operations, that kind of capital is at risk because you're dealing with socialists, right? You're dealing with government socialists. They see an account of $200,000 and they think you're a fat cat. And even if basically you can have a business that makes $13 million in revenue, but you have $12.5 million of expenses, they will see that as a profitable, you are a rich guy running that business. And I've worked at one of these businesses at JPMorgan and they couldn't wait to get rid of us and sell us and sell that division. They're like, what the hell you mean? You are 12 million expenses on $13 million that are revenue, that's not a business we care about. So to them, it was like a waste of resources, even providing us with data storage. But that's kind of how these things work. Deutsche Bank has in trouble, the euros in trouble, the euro is going to collapse, but it's not going to collapse when your barbers tell on you that it's going to collapse, right? That's not how these things happen. They just don't. Bitcoin is having the same exact issue right now. And I think I hinted on this at a different show. Right now, Bitcoin price is unreasonably stable. This is causing all of the speculators to get out. It's also causing people like me, and there's a bunch of people like me, people that got on the Bitcoin bandwagon in 2013 during the run up. And we all thought we'd be rich by now and could our jobs not all of us, but I was one of those. And Bitcoin has not made me rich. And I need to pay my bills too. So I've been trying to avoid ashing that into pay my bills as much as I can. But it's hard not to do it because my mortgage has to get paid. And people like Roger are very frustrated that Bitcoin hasn't achieved what it's supposed to achieve. And people are leaving for Ethereum and for, I can't wait for the Zuko pump for zero cash. More speculators will leave. And as these speculators are leaving, Bitcoin's price is being helped together by the underlying economy that relies on Bitcoin. And when the last whale sells, I mean, when my current ruined the tile, he basically called the bottom. If someone like Roger gets so frustrated and throws in the tile, he will mark the bottom. I mean, when the last guy sells out of frustration, that's when there's no more sellers left. And the demand starts to organically pick up. Prices start going up and then the firm will set in. And there we go. I'm expecting this to happen towards the end of the year. I was already expecting a bunch of miners to close shop. Meanwhile, the hash rate is going through the roof. So something is gonna have to give. I mean, I am expecting a huge run up and Bitcoin price, but not until people are cursing Bitcoin that will in their lives. So I'm waiting for that moment first. But it's probably, it can still dip. But as far as Europe, the euro will collapse. Right now, your best place to put your ATM machines are in Europe. Italy, Spain, Germany, keep a truck running because once those banks close, and that's when she like greets, people will only have limited number of cash to buy your Bitcoins. Then you just move them to the next place. I've been expecting Italy to collapse for a while. They will, I think Italy and Spain are due. I'll leave it at that. Dire predictions as our future sounds like an episode of Mr. Roba with total economic and financial collapse. Once again, proving what a great show Mr. Roba is and how we're all fortunate that it was forced to watch it. Oh, sorry, one last thing. When the euro does implode, it will be the greatest thing to ever happen to the US dollar and the US stock market. So if the euro implodes, I'm expecting the US dollar to like double in value and the stock market to like double in price just on speculation. It will be insanely bad for US corporations because it will be hard for them to sell their products overseas. This will both completely annihilate urgent markets death because a lot of emerging markets have been issuing debt in US dollars. So if you as a dollar doubles in value, now it's like you take out a loan for your house in Malaysia and you took that out that US dollars. The US dollar doubles in price. Your house didn't double in price, but your mortgage just did as you have to pay it back. So the dollar strengthening will annihilate like so many things, but as the European system collapses and the euro basically implodes, I'm not sure what Europe will do. Maybe they'll go to the SDR, maybe they'll re-state their own currencies, maybe they'll form another stupid monetary union, whatever they do, all that capital is going to flee Europe and it will go to Asia, China probably, maybe India, if they get their shit together. And a lot of it will come to the US and it's going to probably go into the US stock market. So I am looking for the stock market to double, maybe triple over the rest of this decade. I don't see a bubble inequities. And I see a lot of bright side for the US dollar as well. Like if you're looking for a stable currency and Bitcoin's enough for you, I think US dollars is an awesome choice. A complete support for the US dollar from total complete support. Moving on to the exit question, banks that are too big to fail threaten the entire economy and should be broken up before they can cause worldwide economic collapse. Yes or no, Theo Goodman. No, not really. What it is is pretty simple. I'm bold and they just had a pay for it. It can be as big as they want. Gabriel, D Fine. It's a hard question. Hello. What are you saying, Theo? So it's a hard question. It's a hard question. Yeah, what is it? So it's a hard question to us free market capitalists. So you're talking about breaking up the banks, right? Yes or no, breaking up? No, definitely not. I think that the problem is caused by the regulation and the start that allows the monopolies to form the first place. I don't believe in this stupid theory that monopolies form naturally in markets. That is bullshit. I think it's regulation that causes monopolies to form as they edge competitors out of the marketplace with coercion. So I think this solution is not to have any of that regulation and just to allow them to blow up, then the industries learn, the people learned that trusted third parties are not trusted. They don't live up to their name. And so we shouldn't break them up. We should just let them fail. Tone vays. Oh, man, this is so freaking hard and I gotta try to keep it short. I don't want to disagree with Gabe, but I'm gonna go in slightly different direction. I agree that the regulations are a complete mess, but what brought the 2008 crisis onto us was the removal of one important piece of regulation, which was the Glass-Steagall Act from the 1930s. That piece of regulation was actually very, very good. It separated the commercial banks from the investment banks. I understand that regulation is overbearing, but that piece of regulation was good and it was the clintance that eliminated it. And that's what makes it kinda hard. I'm not against regulation, I'm against AMLKYC. Like I come against the government's knowing where all my money is. If a private bank wants to know that it's me using that money, I mean, they can encrypt this data and hide it from the government, right? And they're doing it to help me have a safe or account if they know me, right? It makes it easier for me to walk in and get my money. But so I'm against the deputization of the banking system. I would love for the banking system to be private, but some regulation is very useful like the Glass-Steagall, which I like. And it was the Glass-Steagall Act that the elimination of that piece of regulation that actually helped create this two-bit-to-fail system. So this is why it's a complicated topic. I'm the one hand, I want this little government involvement and the situation is possible, but my biggest, my white whale in the regulation space is money laundering and know your customer and not even from the business perspective, from the government perspective. But I don't mind the business, that know your customer rules, enclosed and encrypted within the business. I'm fine with that. But when you couple that with money laundering laws, that's the government. And so I want to eliminate all money laundering laws. I want money to be considered property. And then the government can put in very strict regulation on these financial institutions, as long as they're not regulating their people in the way they spend their money. So this is a bit of a complicated question. So I'm kind of, I separated it into two. So the big banks, I do believe need to be broken up, but they need to be broken up big, but because you have to have to put separate divisions or one division on the side of the, and it doesn't affect the retail banking side. So they need to be broken up, but they need to be broken up, be just split by division. The answer is yes, they need to be broken up. Although I did learn recently that economic collapse is apparently good for Bitcoin. So on both sides there, let's move on. We're running out of time. Let's go to predictions or story of the week. Theo Goodman, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Yeah, I do have a prediction and story of the week in one. We're doing duality today with the questions of course as you guessed, it has to do with real money and real money is green like a frog. And the prediction of the week is that Pepe Cash will be listed at some kind of shit coin exchange in the very near future. Gabriel, Devon. I love how the shit coin is just like a normal, it's normal word nowadays. My story of the week is something that I discovered last night and by chance they happened to update their website overnight and I'm able to understand what this thing is a lot better. So basically, this Australian team last year or at some point I think last year came up with a concept for this system that runs on top of Bitcoins called Code Valley. And they just updated their website overnight which helped me a lot to understand what's going on. Although I really want to get more information so I've signed up to actually try to use it. What this thing is is a system that basically changes the software creation paradigm from what we have now which is a cottage industry. Software creation is not industrialized. So it's a funny thing where it's kind of an artisan thing where you hire human beings and they create custom software for you all over the place. What this is is a way to automate the process partially with Bitcoin payments and the developers make sort of an AI program that helps create elements that are assembled together into binaries. So there's actually nobody even touches any code. They use this interface to create software sort of atoms. You might say that's not what they call them, they call them bytes I think. And basically somebody who wants a piece of software goes into this system, describes the features that it has. Then the system goes out and says, Hey, I have 78% of the bytes that you need. I'm gonna go and contract out the other 22% and try to get them made. And I guess the software itself has some sort of testing. In any case, nobody ever touches any code. It's just all compiles into a binary at the end. So that way you get paid for your sort of little AI that you've created that automatically creates software with your software. It's a very sophisticated thing. And apparently they've already got an alpha working. And I can't wait to learn more because it's definitely a really cool thing. It works on top of Bitcoin. It has Bitcoin payments as part of it. It's a supposedly decentralized system that is sort of a node-based. So something like that that could industrialize the creation of software. If it actually works, I will definitely report back here on the Bitcoin group next time I'm on. The could absolutely break the paradigm and create a far more efficient ecosystem of software creation around the world. And of course greatly increase the usage and market cap in Bitcoin. Tone things. Oh, well, my initial prediction as I'm seeing the comments as I ask people for comments and questions is that by next show Thomas will grow his beard back. They've been complaints. But I don't have much this week. I haven't really been paying attention. We can stick with the economy. I think the euro will rebound for a bit. But when Merkel does not get reelected, one Holland does not get reelected, there will be a bit of a panic in Europe and that would be great for Bitcoin. Just remember, economic collapse is good, but you don't want economic collapse to be too bad because then no one has any money and then everything falls, right? I mean, if there's a huge law, there's major deflation and everybody loses, there's not going to be any money to go into Bitcoin. So you want some panic, but not too much panic. So the euro being on the brink is good. Someone asked me for a price prediction when all the speculators leave Bitcoin. I can definitely see what once we get, once the speculators continue to leave and we slowly creep up to the all-time high of about 1000, once we break that high, I can see the formal setting in, especially with the US elections and a lot of uncertainty going into early next year. I can definitely see a jump from 1000 to about 2.2.5K. And then there'll be the usual crash that will take us back down to about 1200. But 1,500 in the next 12 to 18 months is I see as a reasonable target because speculators are leaving and they will come back controlled. Excellent predictions there Tom, looking at the chat too. Sure the beard will be back, but it's good to refresh it every now and then get some new crop growing. My story of the week is I went to the MC Chris concert last night. It was super fun. Not a very large concert, surprising, I think he's much more famous than perhaps he is. But it's pretty neat these days you can sell your entire catalog on a USB stick. So it's not just like a cool keychain, it's all of the music he's ever made. So that's pretty neat. You can do that these days. I paid a reasonable amount, but I don't mind paying the artist directly for something that I enjoy. And that was it. I went to the MC Chris show and I think we're running out of time. Up until next time. Bye, bye. Bye.