The Bitcoin Group, the American Group. For over the last 10 years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists. Hi, everybody. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. But first, the price of Bitcoin is up. 5.67% in the last 24 hours, with the last of 77,193, a high of 79,600, and a low of 72,502. That's $1,296. just on the other side of the 1300 Satoshi barrier. Maybe we'll see that thousand Satoshi barrier again for too long. Issue 1, Bitcoin Rally, top $79,000, crypto shorts, ETFs, flows soar. CFTC explores crypto rules. Yes, the price of Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other cryptocurrencies rose incredibly over the last two days.
As the Treasury Department announced their plans to increase its long-term bond buybacks. Yes, they're printing, printing, printing, and printing money, and everything is up. Jesse, what do you think? Everybody was sad there. We had our crypto winter. There was much discontent. And now, two days of green, everybody's fine. Oh, yeah. Yeah, my greed index is up to a 97, so feeling nice and toasty over here. Gotta love it. Love it when Bitcoin goes up. Nothing to get upset about. I just think it's very interesting still that, you know, I was kind of thinking it was the meeting Trump had or something like that, but maybe it was the bond buybacks. It's interesting to me that as a world currency, as it's supposed to be, that it's still so affected by whatever's happening in the United States.
You know, I kind of bring this up when we talk sometimes, but it's still really, it's part of it's like, okay, this thing, Is it just because it's so young? But then again, it's like almost, we're hitting two decades. So how young is it? And I started wondering like, you know, when you want Bitcoin to be like money and you want it to, you know, you want it to be the money that runs the internet or something like that, you know, how does that happen when you're still getting like massive fluctuations in one day just because of some random thing that happened, you know, with a Trump meeting or some Fed policy thing? I know that happens with stocks. But that's really like a tight American thing.
The Bitcoin is supposed to be like all over the place. Bitcoin is supposed to be worldwide. And then, of course, there's the shorts getting liquidated. And you get the short squeezes and you get the long squeezes. So you're still getting a lot of mass flux. You're still getting the big 50%. It's tightening the range over the four-year periods. But, you know, the whole volatility of Bitcoin is still, I'm beginning to think of it less and less as money and really am just thinking of it. like a gold thing. And I feel like that's almost, I don't know if we're going to ever, I don't know when we're going to get past that or how. So that's sort of my take on it.
Just an overall take. Of course, you love Bitcoin going up. Yeah, I just think Bitcoin's not big enough yet to stay at a steady rate, like you're saying. Once everyone's into it, everyone's on this side of the ledger, maybe we'll see it. But for now, these fluctuations in the U.S. market and especially, it's good to see it back to where it should be reacting to government debt. Bitcoin is as an alternative currency. So if you look at the dollar and you say, well, the dollar's too heavy because they're printing too much of it. What else can I get into? You get into Bitcoin. So I like seeing that as an option. But I do agree we're not anywhere near the point where it doesn't move and it doesn't waver.
And seeing it go up as much as maybe $1,600 or more, there's been times in the past when the whole currency wasn't worth $1,600. So this is quite a thing for to see these kind of moves in a day or two. idea where you're like why are you holding why are you holding on to your funds well you don't know when these days are coming you didn't know looking two days ago that this would be green day and another green day you had no idea you suffered through all these reds and then somehow somewhere there was a green and uh i think you know that's mainly it for this issue we're not too into the price here but it is important and it is nice to see uh i think you know we're probably heading back to hire uh it was funny because just a few weeks ago or just the last week or so i started to see the sentiment change.
And Jess, did you see it? They started predicting 200K again. That seems to be the new chant. Yeah, I think we're, you know, there's still, we're kind of, the four-year cycle, more or less seems to still be alive and kicking. And so I guess what you should may probably expect is some other little dip happening around the end of this winter. And that will be the end of winter. And as we go into spring of next year, it's going to start popping up again. And yeah, I think they were, They're predicting 200, 300 in the last cycle. This time, and maybe that's a little bit more of a realistic number. So, but who knows? You know, who knows? On the strange as it is, just with all the other past predictions about Bitcoin, once we've seen 120, maybe we could see 150.
Maybe we could see 200 in the same way. Once we saw 10,000, maybe we could see 12,000. You know, it seemed impossible at the time. But here we are. Let's move on to the exit question. of Bitcoin. Jesse, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? You know, I've never done this on the show ever, but I'm actually going to say lower just because we had this massive rally. I find it, I think it'll be interesting if it sticks, but that'll be nice. Like Proud Hoard said in the Proudhorn song, I'm a bull and I'm bullish. That's right. I'm sticking with up. Let's see what the ball says. Predicting next week, will the price of Bitcoin be higher?
And the magic eight ball says it's very dark in eight ball land. As I see it, yes. As I see it, yes. So there are- Well done, Thomas. Thank you. Thank you for that. Positive ball prediction. Moving on to issue two. Strategy sells $334 million in master's shares makes no Bitcoin purchases or sales as USD reserves hit $4.8 billion. Thomas Hunt, what do you think? I'm surprised to go first on this one. And I'm surprised to see myself in the same bucket as a micro strategy. You look out there and you say, well, it's a horrible bear market. Where's the bottom? And you sell a little bit to cover your groceries. And you're thinking, OK, I've got a little bit of money.
And then you want to just keep it to the side. And I think that's happened to micro strategies. They sold some money to cover their debt collateralizations and so forth to sell their things. And now they're little skittish. can't get back in the market they don't know they have obviously a giant outlay they have tons of money they don't have grocery money to play with their big company but at the same time it's surprising to see them so flat-footed if sailor had made his purchase last week as he predicted by putting one of his tweets up they would have been well up right now if they had stuck with his entire thesis of never sell bitcoin hoddle no matter what which is hard during these times and hard if you're a normal person and you're selling for groceries and rent money.
But if you're this giant company and you're selling because I don't know why, it seems like they're on the wrong side of this ledger. I know there's lots of up for them, but it doesn't seem like they're going to get the maximum up that they could. And their strategy, as simple as it's been, seems sound. They should just huddle forever. Why didn't it work? Jesse, what do you think about micro strategy, not making any purchases? Well, I think they have stretched. themselves as thinly as they possibly can. I mean, when you look at it's not just master. There's like stretch, strife, stride, strike. They got like five offerings outside of all of them offering yield, reasonable yield, high yield, higher than anything else you can get on the market, really.
So, and then they had stretch, you know, get just get obliterated a couple months ago. It was down to like almost $70. It was selling it so far under par. getting like a at some point you're getting a 20% return you know and and and everybody skittish instead their crowd is skittish and by the way they had to sell a bunch of their they're diluting their stock like I mean they had to sell dilute their stock is what they did in order to get the money just to pay off all the dividends or paying for everything else so it looks like they're even basically now at the today's bitcoin price they're even the flat basically on their purchases which should be a good thing really if we're in the depths of the bear market and they're even, that's actually a really good place to be.
So I think they just have to get through the rest of this winter. They have to just get through the next six months to a year. And then they're going to get another big, beautiful, massive rally like they did before. And I think this is the kind of thing that could keep happening because what they do is all their money comes in when Bitcoin's at its peak. So then they have to buy it as peak. You know what I'm saying? And then they're going to go through the next cycle. second time it's happened. I can't see it not happening again. So this, they're just going to, this is the way they're going to run it. And the question, the real question is, are the people, the people who are buying all their stocks going to remain interested in it?
Something like stretch is quite interesting. I actually have some. And I'm a little bit of profit now because when it takes so hard, I bought some, you know, at that kind of yield, I said to hell with it. So I have like kind of ambivalent feelings about them. I don't know. It's all kind of weird, a little bit weird and sketchy in a weird way. They not only they sound professional, if you really get down to what the bottom line is, you either believe in Bitcoin and you don't. And if you do, then you don't see any way they can really fail in the long term. They just got to get through the next year or two, which doesn't seem like it's really going to be a problem.
So I don't see anything to be totally scared of. So there's a long securitus securitus. It's sad they're having to do so much to justify such a simple strategy. I think we've looked at this before. we looked at it and we said well what's their average bitcoin purchase price and you think they'd have a really good price but like any giant corporation they have to tiptoe in they can't put all of their money in on the first day they're not an idiot like you they're not going to brave that storm but if you look right here at least according to this chart from the block their average purchase price like you say seems to be around 75k to 80k so they're just barely in the black whereas you have other companies like Nakamoto's that was setting up right at the top of the market where their average purchase price was, I don't know, I want to say 100 to 120, right?
Incredibly high price, right? Meanwhile, behind the scenes, I think, again, the guy to watch is Adam back. He set up that treasury company at the bottom. They were buying at the bottom. I don't know their purchase price offhand. I think it's around 60, 65, which would be golden right now. You'd be looking at a huge up. think it's surprising to see strategy who had such a simple plan had to break out all this other stuff had to pay off all these loans made a large pile of cash all the rookie mistakes that you and i are doing a strategy is how they're doing as well and i'm just so surprised i thought they had iron will i thought that sailor had his own you know system in order you think he has enough mansions he doesn't need to freak out like a normal person like you and i you know paying rent and stuff um but yeah it's it's a surprise to see them in this position meanwhile uh you never hear anything about el salvador i imagine they're still sitting on their stack uh maybe having dictatorial power is a little different than the power that sailor has and uh the board of the directors is not such big thing in el salvador but for whatever reason i think they're still hodeling uh strategies all upside down uh nakamoto's was selling everybody but adam back in this treasury game uh is in a bunch except for like black rock all these other people and there's another guy like jane street or one of the other large players where they said oh they've been selling for the last 10 months now they've started buying and i hate seeing that and reading it and then having it turn around because i'm like oh those bastards are making money but at the same time i don't know they're just smarter money than the rest of us they know when to hold them and when to fold them and they're just out there kicking our butts so um you know we're just the dumb hoddle guy writing from the thing you know but But any more on this on strategy, Jess?
Anything you'd like to say about Michael Saylor? Well, just as a little side things, as you talked about other companies, it does look like there's almost 200 companies that have Bitcoin, they've become Bitcoin treasury companies that are on the New York Stock Exchange. So that's pretty nice, actually. And as we get more and more mainstream adoption in that way, it's going to be a very good thing for people who are, like you said, just hodeling. Just actually doing the strategy, the actual strategy, without all your strides, strikes, and all those other things. They were buying a ton of Bitcoin when it was like at 90 and 100 and 110 and even 120. So of course they like, you know, it was kind of amusing because he seemed to think there, it was, I guess he really believed there was going to be a permable, you know, whatever, the hyper, whatever they call it, the hyperbolic market that never winters.
But it wasn't this. year not this cycle maybe it was a hyperwave they needed their surfboard for the hyperwave but i mean it's still long-term bitcoin seems unbeaten right here at 75 everybody's positive again everybody's on good again everything's all back i don't know i think we're going to be fine again it's hard it's hard it's it is it's hard to obviously watch it dump as we all know the same time it's hard to get if you've been in it if you were in it before it ever hit 65 and 65 was a fantasy or 75 was like a wet dream for you at some point a few years ago. It's hard to really like get mad now about it, but you know, emotions are emotions and they are what they are.
But yeah, we're living the dream man. It's working. It's existing. And despite what I think we might be talking about next, which could have been something that could have been disastrous, but I'm talking about the cold card stuff. It didn't really make a blip in the rest of the noose. Like it wasn't, I don't know, that was sort of a weird thing too, you know, it didn't seem to matter. That was what was kind of crazy about it. Well, the Bitcoin hodlers and the ones who hoddled with corn card are just nothing compared to Black Rock and Moody's and Jane Street and the rest of the institutional money out there. And the institutional money seems to think we're going back up.
that all those people got hacked and that the hacker is very rich now but let's keep moving let's go on to the next issue check out world crypto network dot com where we've got more than 5,000 videos including a lot of shorts that you can watch for free at world crypto network dot com or youtube issue three bitcoins bit 110 supporters split onto minority chain as main network pulls ahead yes the famous knots fork happened on Bitcoin. They created their own chain. They plowed forward for all of two blocks, and then they crashed and burned along with their ideas. Luke Dashir was kicked off of some Bip writing group, and his reputation is pretty much tarnished, and it's all over.
Jesse, what do you think about the BIP 110 Knott's issue and the idea of censorship versus dirty information in the blockchain, blah, blah, blah. Very interesting. Again, I was trying to think what you would call the side chain, but you just said it, not Bitcoin. That's what they should call it. The new chain is called not Bitcoin. But, you know, it's, it was, I was curious. I was just really curious. I wasn't around when the, when the Bitcoin cash fork happened. So I wasn't around. I didn't get to experience that. I say get to. It was probably a nightmare going through it. But I was kind of really curious what would happen this time. And I was actually a little bit.
even like, I have to admit, I talked to my friend. I was like, hey, man, can, what if I can just sell some of this crap? You know what I mean? Like, just get some free money. But it doesn't seem like, you know, I don't even know if it's on exchange. I don't know what they'll call it. I don't know what, you know, it looks like it's going to die. Of course, it's behind in blocks, but that's because the hash rate, as far as Bitcoin understood it, was still very high. So at some point, there's going to be a difficulty adjustment, and they will start doing them every 10 minutes. But who's on it and who's going to use it? nobody. So, you know, I guess they tried.
It was probably like fun or interesting. Not fine. It's probably a nightmare for the people that actually believed in that stuff. But I thought, I sort of have two points on this. One, whatever the broad consensus is, it's just what it's going to be. And I don't really have that kind of control over it. I have a voice, but I'm not out there, you know, mining, you know, or that kind of. kind of stuff. And then the second part of it was that, you know, like, I just don't get it. Whatever happened with that was going to be okay and Bitcoin was going to be fine, was sort of my long and short of it. So whatever happens now, you know, Bitcoin still exists as it is.
Ultimately, though, I did think it was more better not to have any kind of like censorship on this chain, whether you like it or not, whether you agree with or not, whether it's dumb or not. You know, it's just better. there and who knows what someone might do with it at some point in the future maybe it will be useful for something you know god does yeah it was it was a little different than the uh b-cash fork i remember with a b-cash uh i figure's a guy's name but bit main bit main was behind it jehan woo something like that and um so he they had big guns they had this giant force and it was the kind of thing where their community was like hey maybe we should fork off at this block and then bitmain wrote the code and then code was sitting out there.
And then Bitmain walked away from the code and said, no, we're not going to do that. We're not going to fork off Bcatch. This is a bad plan. And then the community did it anyway. So obviously, they weathered the difficulty adjustment or whatever happened. They kept it going more than these knots guys. And it's because they had giant support. I think they had the support of Bitmain and other people. And as everyone recalls, Bitmain was just trying to stall the whole thing so they could run ASIC boost longer. Every day they could run ASIC boost before. the segwit update broke their ability to see the key in advance their ability to pre-see the code that was a good day for them and that makes very little sense to people you're like oh you you win by stalling yes every day it's a draw we make you know x billion dollars so as many draws as we can stack up we keep winning i mean it's like in wag the dog they just had to hold the field open until the presidential election and uh but for them there was no election there was just compounding returns.
So again, back over the knots. We talked about it a little bit the other day and I didn't even really want to put it on the show because I don't think it's an issue. I think it's small. I think it's not a problem and I think that the technical people have already told you to go back to bed. And I think what happened here was a lot of moralizing. A lot of people got upset and they got a cause and they said, oh, we're going to stop CP and CP's on the blockchain. And they never said to themselves like, is that the most efficient way to store it? Is that the easiest way to store? it like these people these you know evil people that have cp or whatever they're going to want to store it they're going to want to send it around they're not going to want to put it in the blockchain like this is not like the rarest thing in the world if you have this 13th ingredient you get to enjoy your cp i think there's tons of this shit i think they want tons of it like i think they want more like i don't think the blockchain's a good medium for storing and sharing this stuff i just don't see it uh everybody's all mad about it whatever i think to going back to you from a technical perspective and I think they're trying to tell you this.
They're trying to tell you this in a nice way with their thick glasses and their nerd coats or whatever. And they're like, we had, you know, people injecting data into the blockchain, like ordinals and inscriptions and just kind of putting it all over the place, right? This is bad for computer science, bad for organization. We wrote this new thing. We organized the data. We put in one place. Maybe people stop using the holes, right? They stop sticking data in the holes in the code wherever it is, right? And they start putting in this thing. They start paying the miners. it makes way more sense. I don't think this was like a big opening where like the turtles are going to come and all the people are going to be like CP Town Bitcoin.
I'm sure there's bad images in there. There's bad religious stuff in there. There's whatever you disapprove of is stored in the blockchain. But for me, and I told the guys this last week because Victoria and the other guy, Robert Allen, they disagreed with me on this. And they, you know, they have their own reasons. They have their own beliefs. I think they've been caught up in this boogeyman of we need to stop CP. And then you're a hero, right? Because you're on the team stop CP and you're really good, you're stopping it. And that's great. But I don't think it was a threat. I don't think that the pedophiles were lined up at the door waiting to go over the gates to store their data in the blockchain.
I think they have tons of encrypted stuff. I'd worry more about, I don't know, Facebook Messenger or something, right? What do you think, Jess? Yeah, it was, yeah, it's a funny irony that the high level of libertarianism in this, this culture, in the Bitcoin culture. And then also this want to tell people how this code should be used or utilized. So yeah, of course, all that stuff's annoying. But who's like you said, who's like reading the blockchain anyway, besides like just checking where, you know, maybe where the coins are, that kind of stuff. And as far as like, yeah, I'll just leave it at that. I just, I'm more your team. oh, well, if you have a monetary ledger and it happens to have some dirty pictures stuck to it, they're going to use it as a reason to shut down your monetary ledger.
The monetary ledger is the issue. Like maybe there's some stickers on the side of the box, right? But the fact that you're trading money, whether it's to, you know, terrorist groups or criminal groups or just normal people trading around their money, that's the issue. That's what they don't like. They're not, oh, they're going to get so upset because there was a sticker on the box. We're a little past that anyway, I think. psychologically i mean when when you have the black rocks in there and uh we're just past that already i don't think it's a non it's a non it really is a non issue actually and in all practical i still i still think the money the money is the support right the real issue for me is like bitcoin actually gives money so if you're a fan of like hamas for example and you give them a thousand dollars and they buy a rocket launcher and they hurt somebody like the money gave them the money for the rocket launcher like bitcoin's a part of that And I've already, like, accepted that, right, as a cypherpunk thing where it's like, good things happen, bad things happen.
We let people transact, right? You're already in that gang. Like, who cares about some dirty images, right? I mean, we're already giving out money, like actual support. Like, if you had X number of Bitcoin, you could start a group to do a bad thing. If you had X number of Bitcoin, you could start a group to do a good thing, right? But the money is the support. And I just thought that was way bigger than the CP. argument and I know they had all kinds of debates and all kinds of fights and things that I didn't watch and they had a whole tempest in a teacup and I just let it go and put it on the shelf and said well I don't think anything is going to happen and then nothing happened so you know when the whole when Ordinals first started everyone was like freaking out having it for like two weeks like you know I think the the the MIMPOL got very clogged and the price it started getting really expensive to transact but that didn't last really any time at all and and and so the the system still been working with all this in there and it's already been there what's on the change on the chain already anyway you can't undo it so it's like and all those people paid for their block space they paid to put their image in there if you want to make it more expensive print a bunch of images all the time and drive the price up like use your money to affect the monetary system to make it too expensive to put those images in there and so on and so forth and i just think there's always going to be something whether it's violence or cp or any kind of other dirty word we want to use for whatever it is.
It's going to be in there. It's going to be on the internet. We've been through this. I mean, I'm, I guess I'm a thousand years old now. But when the internet came out, they were like, oh, it's full of terrorism and dirty things and hackers and, oh, you're going to get hacked and all this stuff on the internet. Now everyone's on the internet. So the same thing. Bitcoin's full of hackers and all this dirty stuff, blah, blah, blah. Now everyone's on Bitcoin. I just don't think we need to worry about it. forked off and we lost more people and we lost more developers because the developers get attacked by these uh you know people that are huge into their cause and all that so it is a setback uh but bitcoin continues bitcoin continues on uh we hope that the devs are with us we hope they could survive the attacks and whatever and if they couldn't that's fine too like we appreciate their contribution so but let's keep it moving going on to the next issue issue four cold card exploit abates as total losses climb to 1700 bitcoin new incidents of hackers exploiting vulnerability in cold car wallet have abated though the tally of losses continue to climb as new victims come forward a cold card has also released a patch if you still want to use your cold card wallet uh you could just patch and put your money back on there the same platform where everyone lost their money i don't they should make it going out a business patch i mean i know they have to i guess it's the right thing to do to release a patch but really just just what an awful thing all these people did the right thing had cold storage had it locked away many of them like several states away and they're like well i can't get to my stuff now blah blah blah and then they just watch it go oh we talked about a few weeks ago it is still a significant uh incident for our community it's a big crack in the self-custody idea i don't know if that's even a really a good idea going forward as much as we've supported in the past and um this hack is part of it and it's Sure, it's cold card wrote the code wrong.
Like there's problems there. They didn't get audited enough. There's problems there. But at its core, the idea of keeping all your money in a little plastic box off the internet might not be so safe. What do you think, Jesse, about the cold card hack? It's been a few weeks. We've had chance to digest it. As you said, the market didn't react. The market didn't say, well, the hacker has all these coins now, la-da-da. The market is completely on its own thing. So that's interesting to see. In the old days, news like this would lead people to believe a story. like bitcoin hacked is how bitcoin broke yeah that's broke bitcoin hacked but the the articles seem a lot better cold card exploit it's not called bitcoin exploit anymore so i think we've gotten better on that yeah yeah so that's like that was okay so first of all just to take a step back so i'm sure you've talked about this already nightmare absolute nightmare worst worst because the only people that we were using the only people are using a cold card i mean were people that were really hardcore Bitcoiners.
And we're doing it for, you know, you've all said that, you know, everybody knows this. It's just, and it's the nightmare scenario that something like my keys could be exposed. And yes, exactly what you said. It does make you really think twice about not your keys, not your coin, and get them off the exchange. And all the banter, the means that all the heavy bitcoins, including myself, have said to people in the past, you know, um, so it's crazy to think like you might actually feel, So, and then the other thing, of course, is that when you look at the amounts that were taken, even though it's like 1,700 Bitcoin or whatever, it was so many wallets.
The average was like a quarter of a coin roughly. So this is like people who, it was like maybe 20 grand or something. That was probably their life savings. You know what I mean? It would have been anybody's. But it's not like people that were in it for 100 years or for 12 years and had 30 Bitcoin or 12 Bitcoin or might have had 10 or 12 wallets. This is probably all they had. And it got just writ. It's just terrible. It's the worst nightmare for anybody who's in the Bitcoin. But then the other side of it, too, is like you said, or like we were saying earlier, it's kind of incredible that it had zero, absolutely zero effect on the market. You watch it go up or down by 5%, and there'll be all these articles.
But if the market tanked that day, they would have read, they would have read an article and said that was why. kind of sometimes I do think a lot of the market moves in a lot of ways are somewhat in many ways random actually but so you know long story short it's just a terrible thing that happened to some people I don't know I don't know what they're going to do the cold card people I hope they get in some I don't know what I mean if they have it I hope they have to pay back their customers somehow I don't even if they're you know but I'm sure there's like going to be some investigations going on I'm sure there's some lawsuits getting ready to happen but I just feel bad really bad for the people that were so real hardcore bitcointers who were doing it for the right reason that got just devastated you know of no fault their own really yeah this isn't like mount gox or any of the exchange hacks where or f tx where like they're going to restructure and they're going to give you a percentage of the debt or maybe they find an account here or there that wasn't rated and wasn't looted and you can get a percentage of that i think this is a total wipeout for the cold card people i don't think there's going to be any funds back.
People have speculated maybe the hacker could put on a white hat and turn the funds in in exchange for a bounty. And then they could get to enjoy the bounty. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen. I think they're going to try to clean those coins. There was some idea at first. People thought maybe they were an amateur because they put all the coins in one account. But maybe that was just a big effute, all the people that lost the coins. This way we can get a nice count at 1700 or whatever it was. One of the greatest hacks in history. pulled off with AI not exactly a specialist hack it seems like they figured out that these things weren't random enough i don't know how they figured it out maybe they thought to test one uh which again the cold card people should have tested their seeds they should have tested and audited their software should have been open source all these things and it's funny like you say jess it really mattered what group you were in if you got hooked up with one of these cold card if your if your crew was running cold card and and it's funny like you say it's not just the memes like generally in the community but the memes came out of cold card coin kite was a major bitcoin supporter and proponent not your keys not your coins uh the guy according to tweets that i saw after the hack they said nvk would go around and put tweets on other people's accounts when they got hacked and say oh cold card users unaffected like they would brag and they would they would chomp around and they had a real you know old bitcoin community style to what they're doing and And that makes it all the worst, that they were the ones to go down, that these are the people that got burned.
And I don't know how it happens if you're just like hanging out with people and they all have ledgers or hang out with people and they all have treasers or they have the jade wallet or have the cold card or paper wallets. I don't know anymore. But what's cool in your group? You know, how is your group backing up your security? And I think a lot of people's groups just got hit. I mean, BTC Sessions was on there talking about his family and his friends. He'd supported it and he'd sold it to them. And I just can't imagine you have to call somebody up. Yeah. You've got to go to your safe deposit box tomorrow and get your Bitcoin out if they're even there. And the hack was like 30 minutes.
It was like you had no time. Like you can't get to your into your accounts. You can't move anything. And they took down all the big accounts first. And then they took down the rest of the accounts. And yeah, it was just so horrible. And I just don't know, you know, everything else. So it just sad. yeah well let's keep moving we got one more issue here issue five trump agencies to set crypto policy as bill stalls limiting industries gain people are going back and forth on the clarity act i saw some reports on twitter saying that the bill had already been passed and that it was going to sail right through perhaps the upstream we saw recently were people front running the clarity bill announcement uh we've seen many different versions of this bill we saw brian armstrong of Coinbase pull out of the bill when it attempted to limit stable coin interest.
Stable coin interest could compete with traditional bank accounts. People could obviously abandon their terrible bank accounts, which usually pays 0.3% interest and go into a stable account that maybe pays 3 to anything more than 0.3. 3% would be fantastic. They later surrendered on this point to the banking interest. So it mainly seems like a capital. Bill is not the kind of thing that we're really into. It sets up rules for industries. It captures the market. It makes it hard for new players to come in. But what we are into is the price. And if this happens, there's a belief in the market that all kind of industries who are waiting on the side with their billions of dollars of capital will suddenly flow into Bitcoin and say, now we can set up our industries because it's safe, because we have clarity.
So what do you think, Jess C, are the right-wing is going to get the clarity act through this is pretty much their last chance uh we've talked a lot about their politics and we'll do some more here but what do you think jess so it looked like what i saw in the article is that there's there's going to be about the 15th of september and uh so it is going to go up for a vote it's going to be close and i just don't know i honestly don't know i can't guess you know it's it is sad in a way because the one of the first of the the the the what you brought up was probably the most important point for me and it's lost anyway. If you can't like giving some cut when they were too big to fail in 2008 and and we learned nothing and this was at least an opportunity to divest slow like in a reasonable and intelligent way to divest some of it or at least spread it out a little bit some of that control that the bank has over everybody's cash but it's not going to happen so that's out of the water so forget that part.
Moving on to like what it'll do, whether it'll pass or not, it's again 50-50. If we didn't have, sadly, and whatever your politics are, he did let it, he did put out a shit, excuse me, a meme coin, a dumpy meme coin, right? Two weeks before, or a month before he got elected president, and he's still using that meme coin. So it's like, how are you going to, the bone of contention is about, is about fraud inside of the government. That's literally the main point of contention they can't get past. So it's like, how can this guy be so up for, you know, pro Bitcoin or pro crypto or whatever he is when it's literally him specifically, it's holding this thing up.
But anyway, so not that this guy has any, not to be ever seen any, like, right, you know, crazy stuff, you know, talking out both sides of the face and doing something else with the President of the United States. That's not abnormal. And then the third point is like, what does it mean even if it does get passed? So I think what happens if it gets passed is that if it gets passed, so if it doesn't get passed, there'll probably be some dump or something. They might do what they said in the article, which is do some temporary CFTC thing, which will also, in other words, one way or another, I think something will happen where it'll, it'll be a catalyst that will lead to the next, that will help lead the next bull market.
But not everybody's, If you think there's a bunch of people sitting, like literally sitting on the sidelines with a pile of money just waiting, then you really haven't been in this industry very long and you really don't know much about going. Nobody with any, besides dummies like me and you, read about this thing and then put all your money into it the next day. I'm only, there's only, you got to be, anyone else is going to go on very, very carefully and very, very slowly over a year or two. So if this stuff gets passed and if something happens, And if it actually gets passed, it will probably be better because it'll be more long term. And if it doesn't get passed and they do some CFTC thing that could be revoked in another two years, you know, then we'll see what happens and see who becomes president next and see what happens there.
You know, that might be the reason there's a next winter. You know what I mean? So who knows? Well, obviously, if I think that it shouldn't be passed and we should let it go and we should work on it more in the future, that means that it will be passed. and that tons of money is going to flow in and that that horrible thing, like whatever horrible thing you can imagine would happen is probably what's going to happen. So I'm ready for that. At the same time, I go over the same points. Again, we only make legislation badly in this country. If you look at the DMCA, if you look at any of the internet regulations, they're all made badly. They're all over draconian.
They all chase industries away. They all limit us and leave us with Facebook buying WhatsApp and Instagram every other competitor, which is obviously monopolistic property or faculty or whatever. And we do nothing to stop it. We do nothing. So given that we do nothing and we write all the bills wrong, I assume that we'll do this one. I'll assume that we've already made crypto a right wing issue, which like you say, Trump had the meme coin. He had the pictures with Bitcoin. He went to the conferences. We couldn't say no to this. Bitcoins for everybody, anybody that wants to use it. As they say, Bitcoins for enemies. you know, bitcoins for everybody. But yeah, he destroyed our reputation.
We're completely seen as a one-sided right-wing Bitcoin thing. It's Bitcoin as a scam is seen in the same way that Trump coin is a scam, that it's down 90%. And the narrative either switches from, you're very rich and you're lucky or whatever, to you're very dumb and you're poor. So we keep swinging through those narratives. We're in a, we're partially on a dumb, poor thing right now. but we're almost back to being lucky again. Yeah. Which is, you know, not a great, we can't ever just be, you know, smart or reasonable or anything like you say, Jess. We can only be lucky or stupid. So, yeah, I don't know. Do I hope it passes? Nothing this government has done has been good.
As they say, he kills everything he touches. He's the reverse midas. But then again, if I don't want it, then it passes. So then that means it passes. this front running in the market like we've seen, perhaps. Maybe it really does pass. Maybe we skyrocket up to 100, 120. I don't have any information on that. I have no reason why that would happen. I just say things. But there would be a positive market reaction if we pass this thing finally. Yeah, there will definitely be a positive reaction if it passes, but it'll be, in my opinion, it'll just be like, you know, speculators. I don't think there will literally be like, you know, big I don't think all of a sudden Black Rock's going to buy another $100,000 and then everybody else too.
But, you know, it would be a good thing for the price, that's for sure. No doubt about that. And as far as like you were saying about regulations, man, we're, you know, in the United States at this, you know, at this point it's pretty clear where, you know, a dollar bill literally is a voice. Citizens have voices and a dollar bill has a voice. It's literally now part of the way works so whoever has the most money has the most voice and that's how a Congress works so for the citizens you know the things are going to benefit the people that are already in power that's that's just how every law is ever going to be made in the United States until there actually is some kind of crazy populist dude or woman or somebody who can make a constitutional amendment that says you know basically that dollars are not you know don't have souls and don't have a voice but the likelihood of that low.
So we're sort of on this, we're just on this, what we do have is Bitcoin. What we do actually have is this thing that does actually work. And when we just sit back and kind of, I can vote and I can vote with my money. And so I vote by voting for code, you know, for in past, dispassionate code. Well, whether it passes or it doesn't pass. And right now, if you log into Coinbase, big banner telling you to write your congressman or whatever so they are they are actively supporting this thing i think it's the wrong direction for crypto legislation i think if it passes we're going to say like the dmca we're going to be like oh we're still hamstrung by that terrible act oh we can't make this oh we can't do that and we're going to watch other countries who don't have these laws pass us uh if they don't pass it people are going to say that this whole right wing crypto thing was a mistake which it was it's always been a mistake They felt they could get by with one side, when really this should have been a two-sided approach.
We should have gotten both people on board, both Democrats and Republicans. We should have had bills signed by both people. This should have been a, let's make a new industry for the American people, right? Let's make a level playing ground. Let's make it where it's fair. Instead, it's become the same industry capture that we've seen, which is basically, let's make crypto safe for the banks. And I do expect, Jess, for it to be bank money. enters if it is any money the normal people money can't move this market anymore we've not seen a return of retail uh normal people aren't out there saying let's buy that bitcoin they've said it's a scam and they're going to wait until it goes back up again and when it's at like 250 or something they're saying oh i guess it's not a scam and and we're going to go back from being dumb to being lucky again um but but i can't wait i want to be lucky again i hate being dumb it's the worst of what do you think yeah it just it it does, it has bothered me for a very, very long time and it still does exactly what you said.
This really is a, it's more of a left-wing money in a weird way, I believe. It's more of a progressive money. If you're progressive, you should, Bitcoin should be like the most, you should love Bitcoin if you are progressive. One is literally progress. Two, it's literally science and math. It's like, it's literally everything the progressive movement claims to, to be about. It's called the people's money. It is money for the people, by the people, that any, the most democratic money that could possibly ever exist, it's mathematically, it's like every single thing about it, if you're progressive, if you're, and I know the volatility, of course, is annoying and frustrating, but if you can just teach a little bit of financial literacy or just get people not to ape in, which is hard, because once you, it's hard as a human, but whatever, you know, The long story short, it just drives me crazy that all the left wing comedians, all the left wing, all the AOCs and the Bernies and the people that I respect.
Honestly, I'll say it. I don't care. I do. I care about these people and I respect their ideas. In most cases, in a lot of cases, at least. And they're talking about the science of climate change and the science of this and the science of that, but they won't even like step out. outside of the idea of they can't get past them. And these are college educated people mostly. For every reason on earth, this should be a highly progressive movement and is absolutely not. And that does totally, totally frustrate me. But there's nothing you can do about it. It's been appropriated. I don't even appropriated. I could see why the right wingers like it too. That's the thing.
There's a reason for everybody to like it. There's even more reason that this thing should be passing flying colors but there's just too much you know misinformation disinformation and too many people doing like scammy scummy stuff that that that right up right in front of everybody's face that makes people uncomfortable with it you know i mean they they definitely don't see the real bitcoin like i see bitcoin as a way to get people bank accounts right and to get a bank account you have to fill out all these forms you have to have an address you have to have a certain age bitcoin doesn't have any of that right you can set someone up with a bitcoin wallet boom they can send money in and out that's a bank account right they could save i know saving in bitcoin's not been so great lately but the general idea is still sound if you have a point one it's still a point one right it's a you know you saved it and i wish they could get behind those ideas i think they see bitcoin more as a stock or a lottery ticket where they're like they're gonna you know you're just teaching people to gamble you're just teaching people in third world countries to get an account and then the gamble and and i know how hard that can be with draft kings and these sports books taking over our world everything does seem to be out about gambling prediction markets are somehow legal right now not chase to the ends of the earth like they will eventually but to go back as i've said before aOC and bernie should make their own coin what is the point of this what is this nonsense that the the vacuum is open so wide the president is almost this close to legalizing it where he's going to say you can just make your own coin and rip off your followers If AOC and Bernie each had a billion dollars, let's just say, to build a think tank, to hire a bunch of people to make videos or to write papers or to make TikToks, I don't know what the best use of anyone's time is anymore.
I'd have to take some time and make a list. But if you could hire a billion dollars worth of people, a billion dollars worth of capital, and if your fans wanted to donate that money to you, why wouldn't they just make their own coin? The market is open. seems to be open. You could certainly cite President Trump's coin as an example. Why not raise the funds? I just don't see. I'm not sure. Their entire, I mean, the biggest, one of their major, major issues is basically campaign finance reform. So that's why they won't do it. It's against their, it's against their personal ethos. I think we could get, you have to play the game as it actually exists. I think we could hire people to get us campaign finance reform, to get a Supreme Court reform, and we could do it.
with the billion dollars that we raised for that's the thing they want to play the game and i'm with them on the ideas i agree but i just think we should get some money and then do it i don't know what trump does with trump coin buys gold stuff i guess but if if he turned that into a you know organization or a group or as he has with true social or any other of his instruments like democrats should have their own truth social democrats should have their own aOC and bernic coin and they should have billions of money dollars and they should have a not being able to hire enough contractors. There should be, oh, all the Democratic workers are unavailable.
We need more Democratic workers. We need more people making TikToks. That's not what I hear. Even they had a race where Vindman was over, he was over that Florida candidate by like 25 to 1 in money. And then he lost. The Florida socialist defeated Alexander Vindman, the Ukrainian who leaked the information from the White House. So he even had some name recognition. still trounced him because of the ideas it's not just you need ideas plus money and i feel that bernie and ase specifically and i'm pissing off my libertarian friends here they have ideas imagine if they had money and i don't know why they wouldn't do this i mean i know there's like the whole hypocritical thing or whatever or trump did it therefore we can never do it but it seems like people freely gave the money and he's getting away with it and he you know he sold a bunch to ua e and all kinds of other people and there's been questionable people buying it because they think they'll get business access to him and all of those things.
Well, let them do that for AOC and then just don't give him access. Didn't he literally, I mean, I could be mistaken, but I could have sworn like early on when he got present, he had almost like a lottery based on who bought his meme coin and then you could get meet him at a dinner or something like that. I don't know if that's up. Top 25 holders got to meet him for dinner. And then there was a thing here I was going to mention. as you were saying with his corrupt dealings, not just did he have the meme coin, but in January, before he became president, he sold a $500 million stake, 49% of World Liberty Financial to Sheikh Tahoon bin Zaid al-Nahan, who is from the UAE.
So, you know, nothing wrong, selling investments and so forth. But if you're the president and you're selling 49% of your company, like days before you become president, looks like a bribe. Like it has a bad look to it. Well, you got an airplane too from the UAE. I mean, whatever. I mean, what are you can do? Airplanes from Turkey. Oh, Turkey. Sorry. Yeah. Well, you know, whatever. Turkey A. The thing, you know, all I would say about the whole progressive thing is sometimes it doesn't matter what I think, but, you know, they're going to do what they do. But you got to, you got to recognize the game as it actually exists. something, but the rules of the game are what they are now.
Once you win the game, then you can change the rules. But you can't play the game by the set of rules you think it should have. And that's what they do. You know what I mean? That's why they have a lot of trouble. Because the, whatever, the Pelosi's of the world and the whatever else on the Democratic side, they mostly don't give it a care too much. They're about getting the money. They literally said, I remember when Pelosi got, became a speaker. They literally said it because she raised the most money. That was it. That was the only reason. It's like she literally because she spends the most time on the phone instead of legislating, because she collects the most bribes, basically is literally what they're saying.
And they say it on the news and they say it happily. So it's not a Republican issue. It's not a Democrat. It's an America issue. And it doesn't matter what party you're part of. You know what I mean? So for the progressive side of it, yeah, start. Well, that's what I get an idea of maybe you're a little progressive like me. we did we we voted we voted with our actual money and so that's what you have to do if you're in if you're progressive you have to just do the thing that you're supposed to do I guess you know for yourself I still think they should launch aOC coin and Bernie coin what would be so wrong if they had a billion dollars and if they didn't sell well they don't sell so it goes I mean let's just move along but we're running out of time today so Jesse do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead No, I just want to say thanks for having me on the show.
It's been a minute. I just watched Dark Matter. I read the book first. It was a fun book and the shows as fun, I would say. And it's on Apple TV. So if you're into science fiction, there's something for you. There's my story of the week. Nice. That sounds cool. I'd like to check it out. I'm watching Stewart Saves the Universe on HBO. And I don't know if it's going to make it. I hope it gets a lot better. It's kind of stupid. It's basically like, I'm to date myself again but have you seen the show sliders it's basically like sliders they go to a different universe and something's different and then you know that thing and their minor characters from big bang theory are there and sometimes the main characters and uh it's kind of fun and it's kind of light but i'm giving to try um not that much else to say been a little sick this week so glad to get back at it and uh thanks to jess for joining us thanks to everybody else for watching us giving us a thumbs up and uh subscribing down below uh that's about it for this show so until next time bye bye they move the buttons every week uh live stream here we go