The Bitcoin Group The American Original Nice to be here. Last week, Core vs. Nautz, let's go down to your comments and see what's going on. Our West writes, I'm with Victoria, let the Spammers and Network Cloggers go to another blockchain or create their own. Keep them out of Bitcoin. I've never liked Todd, Peter Todd, HBO Satoshi, now less than ever, but Luke Dashier brings me Bugs too, even though he's right. Back in Lopp, even Andreas, something wrong there too. Miners? Trust them? What the fuh? Thomas is right about one thing, give it time. Of course, we can always trust the supremely stupid markets fork and let the market decide yikes. I do agree we should give it time, it would be great if Core would just slow down what they're doing. Although, I think they would see that as Nautz winning and if they have other things, they want to develop based on this, that might be the reason for their timeline. A lot of our big comments come with from, I'm sorry, I don't know how to say your name, L. Jashel, I hope I said it right, sorry man. He says, maybe you do not understand the issue, that is why you're confused. Todd is not very likable to me, but the argument he's making is correct, except that filters don't work and face the fact that people are giving transactions to the miners anyway to get their filthy J pegs in by paying them. If you can't stop the abuse, then standardize it. For example, the UTX set is not bloated up because someone created an unspendable transaction by storing something in the signatures or use taproot to store stuff in the tree. And Ress says he agrees, he's having trouble understanding the issue, but is going to stick with Core because what else are you going to do? L. Jashel responds again, nobody is changing anything in the consensus rules. Nothing changes, there's nothing wrong happening. Everything will work exactly as it was working before. He says you're not messing with what Bitcoin is, yet it is necessary to align consensus more with mempool policy and to incentivize people from bloating up the UTO sec. Skeptic 33 rights was listening to a node operator talk about this nots thing, his point made sense. Till now, his node just stores a history of transactions. He's okay with that. With the memory expansion, his node, his machine in his house potentially fills with CP and filth that he does not want in a system's hard drives, big no from him. OG Furious writes, Fiat Bitcoiners are trying to monetize the time chain. Leave it alone and go play with your DeFi. XP, Fomentum writes, I hardly endorse Don Nots. Don Nots, of course, famously from the Andy Griffith show, Threes Company, Matlock and more, even Herbie goes to Monte Carlo. Everyone supports Don Nots. Anyway, back to the arguments. Vali Soundboy asks, can we get Ben to explain this mempool consensus level stuff, even if he doesn't want to express an opinion on Nots versus Core and the debate goes on. As he says, the protest is not valid. The debate has taken place. The arguments are out there and now it's s-flining by a group of un-serious people. It's not a consensus change. Nobody is allowing four megabytes now. It was always possible and people did it anyway. The whole thing is just about whether mempool policy should allow those transactions, which can be sent to any minor included in the blockchain anyway if you pay them in the mempool. It's a maintenance task. Mempool policies should reflect what's going into the blocks. There's nothing to talk about. It was blown out of proportions by a few people with strange world views. He says, our Nots coverage is not okay. You treat the changes as consensus changes and panic. They are not consensus changes. You need to explain to your viewers what the difference is between consensus and mempool policy. So consensus is a huge change to Bitcoin through a soft fork or if they change enough that they have to change the blockchain a hard fork. About the compatibility. If it's not backwards compatible, it's a hard fork. We're also seeing some signaling, although I'm told that Nots does actually have their own software. Previously, people were signaling that they wanted to do the hardware or the soft fork, UASF, user activated software. As Lambroso said on the Mad Bitcoin show, they never wanted to use signaling again. But we are kind of back into a signaling environment with Nots claiming that they've passed 21%. This means that the nodes are running their software, but it's not a major change from the core software. It's mainly about this op return issue that we continue to learn more about every week. A JED, what do you think about op return, the consensus change versus the mempool policy and the surprising to see Nots up 17% to 21% week over week? Yeah, it's, I think my mempool is my mempool. I can filter whatever I want out of it and do what I want with it. It's my note. So, you know, in that sense, running core Nots is really your own choice. What I find amazing here is the depravity that this argument has gone into and the apparent lack of transparency and governance that was involved in the decision to do what's being done. I have no problem with taking away the op return a byte limit and increasing it to basically it's to 520 bytes as far as I understand the stack element. So, you can't put a lot of CP in 520 bytes unless you write some custom client that's going to process other op returns after that. You're not going to get a lot of CP there and you can already do it with ordinals as you just said. So, to me, the whole thing, the whole technical argument is move. The real issue here is about governance and transparency of how Bitcoin evolves. What I'd like to know more about is who's funding who and who's making the decisions and how are those decisions being made and that should be totally transparent and you did void the whole situation that we have now. In the case of Nots, I can say and out of protest, just to raise awareness, I in solidarity with Nots stopped running core, dropped the Nots, demon in and started running Nots, but I can switch it back tomorrow. It's not a problem. But the whole point is we need the transparency and the governance and to know who's paying who and who's deciding these things in what manner and that's sort of the crux of the matter for me. So, that's sort of how I see it. It does seem though like changing a core for Nots is just one master for the other and at least with courts and open source process where we know about the code, we know it's being looked at by hundreds of people, not dozens, as Cali BTC writes on Twitter, Nots has code to turn itself off at a set expires. Unnecessary, stupid and outright dangerous. Did you know? Was it discussed by a team of experts? How can such a dangerous feature make its way into a release? And it says by trusting a single guy who lives in his own reality, which was slightly echoed by our commenter as well that the Nots development might not be who you want to charge, even if they are leading what seems on its face. A successful moral campaign waving the flag, oh no, there's bad things in the blockchain, which again like Jed, I'm not seeing. I'm seeing there was already text in the blockchain, so they already put whatever your version of bad text is into the blockchain, whatever is offensive to you. The words are in there. It's there, right? It's already there. Right. So that already happened. Also, if we really zoom out a step and think about computer science, I don't know the details, but I think you can break a JPEG down into text and you could store enough consecutive text or linked text where you could rebuild the JPEG. Right? You could be laborious and it would be difficult. You need a special client. You wouldn't just load up your web browser to see your dirty blockchain JPEG, but I'm sure someone could put a small JPEG in there as well as things like ordinals or stamps, which are very small and expensive JPEGs, which again could be CP already for me. And as I just forgot to a Victoria last week, and I'm not saying this is a negative. I'm saying this as an acceptance of a monetary system. Bitcoin already carries money that can be used to support causes that we don't support things like CP terrorism, other things we are against on the show, but we acknowledge that money can be used to support them. And in my mind, money as a support is so much more devastating than perhaps hosting a very hard to get image, or one image expensive to store hard to get, maybe if it's blackmail or whatever, certainly it's unfortunate, but the other internet, the existing internet is already doing this so much better and for so much cheaper. It is. And are you even hosting? Are you infrastructure or are you actually hosting that image? Because when someone gets that image, are they really getting it from you? No, they're getting it from the chain on their own node or on the node that they connect to? So you're not necessarily hosting. You're just infrastructure. But your point about the governance is exactly my point as well. The governance of knots is potentially worse than core, because there are less people involved in the consensus on those decisions. So that's and there's less code review as you rightly pointed out. So this is the question, but the crisis is really we need better governance all around on Bitcoin. We need more transparency. That's what we need all around. The decision should be taken in a manner where they are publicized or socialized before they are finalized. And that's I think that's what triggered this whole issue that we're seeing today. Is that a decision was not socialized before it was finalized. And technically it's not going to change Bitcoin. It's not going to impact Bitcoin. And I think core is going to be the way to go. That's that's just how it is. I mean, unless the stack limit gets changed, you're going to pay more. You're going to pay more to put a JPEG using Opera Turn then you will using the Ornals method to put data on chain because that benefits from the segwit discount. So I don't see any reason why someone would use Opera Turn to spam when you can already do it using Ornals. That's the core of the price. That's just the core of the argument though, right? There's an ink because then Bitcoin moves from money to to data store and what becomes more important, the storage the payment of the storage of that data or the money aspect of it. So if it becomes that popular that the data storage outweighs the money side, that's from what I understand. That's that's kind of part of the loop dishes sort of argument. You can, so I read you can take you can set the software expiry to zero, but that just seems like a weird extra hack software expiry to zero. Just to do as a normal user, if we're trying to make it as accessible as possible, that should be the default I think and then set it to an expiry or at least give you that suggestion. But then I also read that someone made a good point that when you're storing an image, you still have to process it. So there may be a bunch of CP data on their already that we've got no idea about. There are thousands of images somehow encrypted, but the point is the encryption of and it's like, do you say that it's bad for people to be storing this if they don't know what it is? Pretty much anyone could be storing data on that it's encrypted and that means that everyone would be liable for that data. So how far do you go to decoding that image? And even then, even if it's an 8-bit return, you could still store a story on there that's not an image, but a erotic story about CP that's in words that doesn't need to be decoded. So there's all sorts of ways that it can already be abused. And it seems like this is quite the cause version is, well, it's going to happen anywhere you might as well control it. Whereas the NOTS version seems more like trying to stamp it out at every sort of level. But NOTS wouldn't, if impact on the current way the ordinals are stored, right? Does that reverse any of that work? No, ordinals are separate. That's in the Segway data. So it's completely separate from the opportune data. And it's an opportune data costs four times the price. I mean, Segway data is 75% discount. It's only one unit rather than four. So it makes more sense to put your data in Segway anyways. So raising it is actually what I think raising the limit, what core wants to do, potentially opens the door to innovation that none of us have thought of. Because when you have this 82-bit limit and all of a sudden that becomes a 520-bit stack limit, you can do new things with the stack in the opportune. You can return more interesting information and potentially create use cases for money, for Bitcoin as a form of financial technology that have not been done today. So I think actually in that direction there is a huge potential. And the only problem I have, as I said before, is with the governance and the way that this decision was developed and that there was no transparency and no socialization of that to gain acceptance. And the whole battle or dispute that we're having now would have been avoided. Had the core team said, this is what we're going to do. And this is why we're going to do it. And it's not dangerous because there's still a 520-bit, you can't put a bit JPEG in 520-bits people. You know, there's still that limit on the stack. So it's just so that we can get from this 82-520-bits and open up potentially more innovation in the financial side of what Bitcoin can do. That said, I want transparency. I want to know who's paying who, you know, MIT, BlackRock, you know, Sailor. These people are funding the core devs. I want to know who's funding who and what they're telling them to do. Are any of the core devs accepting orders from outside parties? That's what I want to know. My biggest fear, and it's a realistic fear because I know the NSA has had a program in place for years where they will infiltrate developers into open-source projects that are strategically important. And those developers will then work for the NSA on the backside to make sure that those open-source projects provide the NSA what it needs. You don't think Bitcoin is in that list of projects if you don't, you're kind of naive. So there is some stuff going on, and I'd like to know who's paying who. Just like with the congressman, we've actually had wear patches on their suits like the NASCAR drivers. We work for a big farmer. We work for a pharmaceutical company, whatever it is. But I do agree, Jed, the open-source process is always open to outside influence. So it would be very easy for government or corporation wanted to try to Bitcoin, change Bitcoin. They could do it that way. But as for the upgrade process, it does seem like standard IT behavior. They're just kind of jerks. They're know-it-alls. They've rammed it through. They didn't bother talking to us because they don't care. They don't care about your opinion. This seems like the same person, Peter Todd Satoshi, maybe, or somebody else who wrote, I don't have time to explain it to you. You can figure it out. Satoshi himself was very dismissive, very IT crowd. Have you tried turning it off again? But Jed makes a good point. If it is cheaper to put ordinals or to put NFTs into the taproot mistake, the Segwit bug, or whatever it is to put it there, why would they use this more expensive, opportune field? They've said that there's hopes that the ordinals clients would change over to this. Maybe it would run smoother, be easier to use something like that. But the economics of it, if it's cheaper to do it there, like Jed says, they'll keep doing it there. If they're already doing CP there, they're doing CP for cheaper in a way that the developers actually don't like because it is kind of bloating something they didn't expect to bloat. I don't have the details here, but from a non-technical perspective, that does seem like what's happening. And again, for me, I just, I want to go back to this idea of these node runners. Everybody keeps telling me about this mall and paw node runner that are sitting out there. I'm not aware there's CP on our node. I don't know about that. Oh my goodness, what's on my node? Are you guys kidding me? I've got my pirate flag out here because I believe we're building a monetary system that's agnostic, right? And agnosticism is important to me. Like we send everybody's transaction through. I'm sure it funds CP and terrorism and things you don't agree with and it's Hamas and whatever bad group or good group you want to say, they're all being funded by Bitcoin because it's money and it doesn't care. So if we broke through the monetary barrier and we have to break through this data barrier as well, I don't really care. The monetary barrier is way more expensive. As I said earlier, actually, monetarily supporting CP in my mind is so much worse than just hosting an image by accident or hosting an image as part of a large archive. Many people host, you know, some JPEG, some torrent, something they accidentally host an image. But there's a lot on paw node runner. They're looking at everything on their note. It already has the Kuran. It already has horrible image, bad image, whatever your religion says it's good or bad, whatever is offensive or non-offensive, not to pick on the Bible or the Kran, whatever religious book is in there. They're all in there, right? But Mon paw node runner, they just found out yesterday, there's some some Bible stuff on the node, said bad things about Jesus. So they're going to shut down all their notes. Are you guys kidding me? Like who are these people? These imaginary people that they've invented who are so, and I hate to say religious, but whatever they're, they're very serious, but what's on their note, all of a sudden. And again, we have the transaction history of every bad thing ever done. So if you're if you're worried about something that supported something bad, you're also supporting the transaction history of it, which in a way allows those bitcoins to continue to be sent. And if you're going by a bad person theory, if the money went from bad people to other bad people to other bad people, you're continuing to support criminal activity by supporting this monetary network as well as any else that uses dollars or banks or whatever you're using bank. I mean, that bank cocaine on every dog. You cocaine on every bank has those all. Especially designed suitcases in that that big famous case. I mean, I don't understand all of a sudden we're like moral and religious about our nodes. I mean, everyone could disagree with me because we all hate CP. We don't like you're absolutely right. We all hate this this of horror and behavior, but people want to police their little world. And that I think when you're running a part of a global payment network, you have to step beyond that. It's it's you're not going to police. I mean, you can your memples, your memple, you do what you want with it. Go ahead, be my guest. Everyone can do what they want, but you're not going to change the network. And it's about forcing it's non-aggression principle behavior. It's about trying to force other people. So why force other people to be limited to 82 bytes when you don't really have to at 520? What's the difference? Can't really put much in 520 anyways. So why not give people more freedom, more liberty to do what they want to do? And if people are bad, we should support law enforcement to chase them down and catch them. You know, this whole to dovetail into a totally tangential thing, this whole chat control debate in Europe, which finally came to a head when Germany said they won't support it. This was insane. This was a proposal to put software on every mobile phone in Europe that would read every text and every message and every email that anyone in Europe was sent or received on the device and automatically alert authorities if an algorithm decided that it was criminal. You know, this is or wellian beyond belief. I couldn't believe that it got so far as it's to almost be passed. You know, this is and this is punishing the 99.99% of innocent people with an anewelian system and imposing a rule upon them. It's total state aggression upon the civil population in order to to stop some .001% of bad actors. You know, rather and today, Intel law enforcement, they all have the capability. They can be in your phone tomorrow. With a warrant, they are in your phone tomorrow. If you have an iPhone, if you have an Android phone, if you have any mainstream phone, unless you're running some lockdown, weird thing, they're in your phone tomorrow. And they can see every message you receive as you see it on the screen. And they can read everything you type. So they can already do that to catch the CP bad actors. They can go into their phones. Let's give law enforcement the funding, the tools, the education, everything they need to enforce the law and stop the exploitation of children. But let's not try to police the general population or impose rules on everybody. That's bullshit. I agree, Jay. And I think it's fun to have a moral argument. It's especially fun to have a moral argument on the internet where we can all throw mud and JPEGs and all these things. But I'm not picking my developers by their morals. I'd like them to have good morals and be honest and true people. But as far as their political beliefs, I want the code written. Like if the code works and the code's not a political thing, we can agree he's a Republican. I'm liberal, but our code runs great together. And it puts things in and out of the database or whatever it's supposed to do. And just going back one more time to this for a long time ago, there was really only one position in Bitcoin. It was the libertarian position that Bitcoin is going to break everything and I don't care, which is a totally fine position. It's very radical, but morally very true. It's very easy to understand. As a liberal person in Bitcoin, I've always seen it and said, oh, this world-changing asteroid is coming to kill all the dinosaurs, but maybe we could save a few of the dinosaurs. You know, we don't have to be completely wiped out. We can have a soft landing to the airplane. And I know that's a radical idea. And they're like, well, but the sky is falling and the world order will change. But I'm like that guy in the foundation book where he's like, yeah, but we could build a plan to have a nicer landing. We could rebuild civilization faster. Like I'm not saying the world doesn't change. And we have to all start donating to disaster relief because we can't print money anymore. And I've been very clear on this. Like you can't print the money. But we could have, you know, we try to have an awareness campaigns. People understand this. We can have a soft landing. We can do so. Which dinosaurs do you want to save? Name-sust. Just some of the people. It just be less of a, when the large changes come to history, it's like it's always the small people who get swept up in it. And it's going to be the small people again. So, and it's not, you know, it's not the large people or whatever, but there are some people hiding under rocks. Maybe the small mammals also need help from the asteroid. But, you know, just this idea that with this JPEG thing, all of a sudden the libertarians are hiding under a rock and choosing moral authority. Who cares about moral authority? As a liberal here, I'm saying the blockchain, the way to send the money, the way to have the shared database, crushes all other software. So if all other software is like the MP3 versus the wave file, they're going to be wiped out. And we got to get on board with the MP3, liberal libertarian conservative wherever you are. You change your values by the system that you're in. And these people are all like having a moral freak out over the JPEGs and the alleged JPEGs in the blockchain. Yeah, Operation Chokepoint, 2.0 and all that stuff. It's not going to work. And then you, you, you want to talk about Bitcoin and gold? Do you want to segue into that? Oh, we got to get Dan in here. Dan, what do you think about the knots and everything we said as we, as we try to escape this topic, which of course, we're going to have to talk about again. I hope we please the commenters. Sorry if we said the wrong things. We want to understand this too. We also want to explain it at a, like a lower level and discuss it than like a topic thing where there's morals and CP and all these things. And, you know, I'm sure everyone's tuned out by now. So one guy said unsubscribed. They're discussed things I disagree with. I can't think that much. But hopefully the rest of you are still thinking out there. But Dan, really quick, anything else you want to sum up on the Bitcoin knots debate that we're obviously going to keep having. Yeah, I mean, it's not quite the scale of the block size wars, right? But and this isn't a consensus change. Is it? This is not a consensus change. This is a mental, this is a filtering change. And as we said, it's just, it just switches it from one side to another. And of course, perspective seems to be that, yeah, you can maybe control it more if you put it in, if you, if you do increase the opera term, whereas knots is like, you know, restrict it as much as possible because then it, you know, it keeps as much Bitcoin along the money lines as much as, sorry, more than, more than allowing the innovation. But you could also argue with that that the more precious the, the block space becomes in terms of the cost of it, the more, more of a powerful money that Bitcoin becomes because of the fact that it's the currency of time and the currency of, it's literally the currency of, they're already calling it chain, right? It's now going to be the currency of time space because it's block space and block time. I don't know, yeah, it seems, it seems, it's, I wouldn't say much to do about nothing, but it does seem like it's slightly like slightly like slightly, because he's obviously a great developer, but it seems like Luke's gone slightly down the, the kind of more moral path. And unfortunately, you know, BBC covered this slightly in 2015, right? They were like, there's porn on the blockchain. I'm pretty sure there's an article from 2015. It's been done then. Imagine how many times it's been done since in a, in a manner that we can't even decode right now, or isn't public or isn't, you know, no, you know, no, and what happens then? Like, do we turn around and go, there's been 50 transactions that contain CP, we're going to shut it down. Well, that's not going to happen anyway. Like, we just need to be able to control what we do have. And and as, as, as, as Jed said, and you said, actually, the, the, the, the more control we can have outside of that, the, the, the better in terms of having the infrastructure to prevent people from doing a child CP and also the, the, the policing of that in general. And also the fact that the money ultimately is the thing that drives CP and other things, right? It's like, you could, you know, people, people pay for it, right? And it goes back to this old argument of, of, well, Bitcoin can be used for nefarious things. Well, Bitcoin as a money can be used for nefarious things. Bitcoin is a blockchain can be used for nefarious things, but anything can be used for nefarious things. And if we didn't have Bitcoin, people would and didn't have fair money and didn't have gold, people would be trading goats for nefarious things. So, you know, it's, it's just, we need to control what we can and realize that you can't control every element of, of, of Bitcoin. And as long as you're more outright allowing it, there's going to be stuff in there that you don't like. And I think really good example you made times that if you're, if you're a Christian, you ain't like the Quran being in there. If you're a Muslim, you wouldn't like the Bible being in there. And there's always going to be something that someone doesn't like in there. I agree, Dan. And I think that's really the core point that the system can't be shut down. Lots of people don't like piracy. They can't shut it down. People don't like people trading money on the Bitcoin blockchain. They can't shut it down. People keep mining it. Yes, some people will turn it off. Monk Pa blockchain or shutting off all their nodes. They had a moral freak out today. But they've been hosting tons of horrible transactions for years. And they've been, you know, routing them. They've been putting them into the blocks. They've been helping the bad transactions. I don't know. He might have to get out of Bitcoin. It might be too immoral for him. It's the whole thing. I mean, if he really looks at it, like, he looks into a mirror one day. He's like, my God, what have I been doing? All the horrible transactions are mine. But that's the complicated nature of reality. It's the Yin Yang, the good and the evil. There's like, you know, parts in all of us and Bitcoin is like the dollar is like everything else. It built the hospital, but it also paid for the bombs that destroyed the hospital. It's the same thing. But let's go to my air, man. I don't like when bad people breathe my air. That's right. See, they're recycling it. And that air is just like colored coins. It gets around. We need to tag that air. I can't have that anymore because it once went into the bubble. Exactly. They're going to build a bigger bubble. But we'll talk about this again in a couple of weeks, hopefully, maybe not next week. But moving on to issue two, generation alpha will buy Bitcoin over gold, the new generation, the next generation, as they used to call it in Star Trek, is now called generation alpha. And they say they will grow up with Bitcoin as a cultural and financial native, making it their default store of value over traditional gold investments. And we've already seen it just this week on the late show with Seth Meyers, not that people watch that young people. They were telling jokes about Bitcoin again. Seth was talking about how he was going to make his own cryptocurrency, egg coin. And as I've always predicted, once Bitcoin is established as a joke, a complicated joke. First, it was hard to understand software. Then it was someone who got rich. Then it was someone who got poor. Now it's someone who got rich again. How confusing that is. But again, the generation that's watching this on TV, watching this in the culture, they're used to it. And as the article says at the end, my favorite part of the article, it says a generation that won't need convincing. I'm excited for that. Dan Eave, what do you think about generation alpha buying Bitcoin not gold and that they won't need convincing? I won't have to do anything anymore. Roger Viren, I can both retire on the island. He'll probably still be there. Well, there's like so many other things in tech. It's such a shift in mentality from people. Not knowing, like I was saying the other day that my kids aren't going to know what DVD is. Everything's digital. They're not going to know what a deep, that physical element is. And it's that's analogous to not knowing what the, especially because we're going towards a casualty society. Like my son, obviously we give pocket money and stuff, but we give it on an app. We've got this own bank account. He's like six. It's done like that. It's not done via coins anymore. So they are the digital generation, especially the latest ones. And they're not going to, especially we've got this push towards the, you know, we're talking about 15-minute cities and making houses in apartments smaller and more compact. And so people are kind of almost moving out of that materialistic frame of mind because they're moving towards instead of owning a house with land. It's in futures more, it's going to be a more compact lifestyle with less kind of things in it. And so the owning physical money is just going to be alien to them because it's just all going to be on a computer. It's everything they're never going to use a cash, I think by the day. If someone is born now, isn't going to be using cash. That's very unlikely that you and stuff are going to try and phase that out. But with the rise of gold, maybe like I can still see like generations Z and stuff getting into gold. Because whilst sort of my generation, like it's kind of millennial 40-ish, we were never really taught for some reason about interest and savings properly in school. I think there's probably going to be a bit more of a focus on that for kids. So they are going to know the value, and especially with Bitcoin kind of tipping the monetary system on its head, there is going to be a lot more learning for this new generation. So they are going to know the importance of hedging against inflation, whether that's fire, gold, or Bitcoin. But what is quite cool is that, because I thought to myself, I was like, man, going from even $100,000 a Bitcoin to $200,000, it's just that's such a huge gap now. When we went from $100 to $200, it was almost just such an insignificant drop of water in the ocean. And I thought, even if going from $100,000 to a million, that's 10 times the amount. That's insane. Well, gold literally just went from 14 trillion in a small space of trying to 24 trillion market cap. And 24 trillion is still 12 times the current Bitcoin market cap. So like the universe is your oyster with Bitcoin, especially as gold is just one of those assets. And Bitcoin covers such a broad range of, you know, that's just gold, right? There's also silver, there's also other precious metals, there's also other assets. And so this latest generation, I think, is going to have such a privilege of knowing about the downsides of fear, especially because of all the good work that people have done in the early days of spreading that knowledge and getting people involved in Bitcoin and not just understanding that it's some sort of money go up, number go up money. But it's also the reason behind it is because of the, the legit one, say inflation, obviously there is inflation in Bitcoin, but it's going to decrease every year with the block, with the block but they're going to learn about all that stuff and have all of those bits of information together all in one place as they grow up, probably going to have courses on it in school. And, and yeah, I think they're really lucky generation. I think you're right, Dan, you make a good point about the cashless generation. I've been carrying around my iPhone lately and I forget my wallet sometimes because you can use click to pay everywhere. I had hoped that that was going to be Bitcoin or maybe lightning transaction or maybe it will in the future. But for right now click to pay, tap to pay, it works great. You really don't need cash anymore. I mean, I traveled country to country, not really getting any cash. You always get some for a backup, even the bathroom machines would take a quarter of things like that. A lot of those are are cashless now. More and more people are saying just like Las Vegas leading the way. You don't want that guy going around emptying out the coins. It's a huge waste of time for you to carry around coins, putting in the machine. So a guy come around and take them out of the machine. It's so much easier to do it cashless. And it is sad, Dan, as he said, being old, they often have those ads on Facebook or where it says the last time you burn to CD and then for me, a DVD, a blue ray, a 3.5 floppy, a five and a quarter floppy, an Atari cartridge and NES cart. But kids are going to have no idea of these media formats and eight tracks and records. Imagine them buying gold, weighing it with an old-timey scale, weights on both sides. And then about again, gold can be in pure, it can be lead, it can be shiny with a Bitcoin or with an NFT that you can link back to its source. You can tell cryptographically that it is the thing that it says it is, such a transition, so much easier. You don't have to trust anyone with the Bitcoin. Jed, what do you think about the upcoming generation and the idea that they might love Bitcoin, not gold? My son saved up his money from his chores and whatnot without telling me. And in 2019, he came to me and gave me around 1500 euros and said, Dad, buy me some Bitcoin with this. And he's 20 now. So, you know, that was six years ago. It's, so it was clear to him already back then, maybe because I'm a Bitcoin or but it was clear to him that this is where the future of investment lies, this is the future of money. And this, he wants to buy Bitcoin as opposed to anything else because he sees Bitcoin as being an avenue to freedom, to help him kind of wife and family and have a free life as an individual. And I think that generation is seeing that and they won't need convincing, as you said, which is great and they're going to buy Bitcoin because it's a much better store of value. It's a much better money than anything, any other option. And gold is hard to transport, sorry to do. It has all these will-know-these things. That said, gold is still, as he said, 24 trillion as of today or whatever, 12x Bitcoin. So, Bitcoin's got a long way to go. We're still early. And what worries me the most about this situation is despite having a 24 trillion dollar market cap, gold is still manipulated. All right. We seem to have lost the dead. He was telling us that gold was manipulated, perhaps a conspiracy. It's true, man. It wasn't even only about five, five, six years ago that they were big. One of the HSPC got done for manipulating the markets. Yeah, yeah, exactly. There's also a lot of integration in the silver market, Jed, before they cut you off, you were saying gold is manipulated before they cut you off. Good. Yeah, it is. And what my biggest fear is, now what we see with BlackRock and everyone piling in on Bitcoin is that it's a capture play. And they're going to manipulate, and why is Bitcoin sticking at 110, 115, 109, 113? Why is Bitcoin bouncing around in this zone for so long when there is clearly demand outstripping supply by a factor of 10? It's only paper Bitcoin that can make that happen. And this to me looks like a capture play that we are seeing in slow motion. And if we all wake up to that and self-custody and get your Bitcoin out of those ETFs as far as you can, okay, we all got 401Ks or ISIS in the UK that you need to put into some kind of exchange traded thing where it's paper Bitcoin, you have to trust a third party, but wherever you can get it off. Because I think that this is a capture that we're seeing. And while it's a two trillion, two and a half trillion market, before it gets to 24 trillion and surpasses gold and before Bitcoin gets to a million, they want to capture and control it. Well, and we've all been on this show, we've been watching Bitcoin for a long time before it was a small country. Now it's passing Amazon, it's passing Microsoft things like that. It was easier to kill back then. And we always set a state actor like the US or China could easily afford to do it, like Jetsing, it's starting to reach the point of like a black hole and the exit horizon. They're starting to get closer and closer to the black hole where they can no longer pull out. So this could be their last desperate attempt to sink by overprinting and by causing a collapse and so forth. Well, that will just drive Bitcoin up. I think by flooding the Bitcoin space with paper Bitcoin and making 90% of Bitcoin owners, paper Bitcoin owners, they can do exactly what they did with the gold market. It does make a difference if you hold your own keys. I wonder if the kids of the future will learn about that. But shout out to Starship Shroudinger's destiny in the chat. He says, Alphas will be the first generation that will be adults who have known Bitcoin exists for all their life. He used to think that it would take three generations for that to be true. Now he thinks it might happen faster. So very exciting news from the article. And we'll see how it goes. Hello to generation alpha. Although of course, if you've seen our statistics, you know that sadly our YouTube audience is about 30 to 40 years old, white and males. So we're always welcome to other people. But and we hope many people in many countries and stuff see this show. But what the stats say is not that. But you could check it out and learn more at worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got 4,531 videos all for free on YouTube and worldcryptonetwork.com. Issue three shares in Bitcoin hoarders sink as crypto treasury mania sours. Fundraisings have continued even as falling share prices leave some companies worth less than their crypto holdings. We've seen that shares in strategy a.k.a micro strategy have fallen 18% over the last month to its lowest level since April. We've also seen meta planet the Japanese hoarder they're calling them Bitcoin hoarders now instead of holders. That's an interesting turn of events has dropped 68% from its peak in mid June. Let's go to jade ai. What do you think about the Bitcoin hoarder treasury companies suddenly having their stocks fall and they're not the hot thing in Wall Street that they were a few weeks ago. It's just bound to happen. I think that the value of these companies was so small to begin with many of them focused on hoarding or holding Bitcoin as a way to build value on their balance sheet increase their share price. But ultimately their shares should trade at a value of their Bitcoin plus a very small premium if they have a profitable business that they run alongside it. There's no reason that the shares would trade at any higher multiple than the spot value of the Bitcoin they hold plus the value of the business that they run. And they've all been playing this game of we could trade at double the spot value of our Bitcoin. The premium on micro strategy has been insane and that's simply because it was accessible through so many investment vehicles that weren't allowed to buy Bitcoin directly. But, jade, what about other companies like Apple trading at 10 times earnings? Things like this. Don't stocks just automatically have this bonus because we're using jargon and lingo and you have to get through us to get to the market. Shouldn't the Bitcoin ETF or the Michael Saylor company be worth 10 times what it has Bitcoin just because no reason? Bitcoin earnings are accessible to anybody just by buying Bitcoin. You don't need to buy micro strategy to get Bitcoin's earnings. You can just buy Bitcoin. So, unless the micro strategy business of selling business intelligence software is growing at a rate that justifies a multiple of earnings which it is not which is why Michael Saylor decided to do this whole strategy. When you've got a company that's at a ceiling that's effectively a working zombie. It may even be profitable but it's just moving forward and it's not going to grow. You can juice it with Bitcoin. That's what Michael Saylor realized and he's done a brilliant job of it and he has become a Bitcoin advocate and more power to him. I think he's done a lot of good for the Bitcoin community. The net of what he's done is definitely good. So, that is important but all the the followers who just want to add Bitcoin to the balance sheet so that they can try to juice their stock price. Forget it. It doesn't make sense. That said, I think having Bitcoin on your balance sheet as a company is a valuable strategy. It's something that my company has done since 2018. We've accepted Bitcoin. We've held Bitcoin and it has been a useful thing. The COVID downturn and all the economic turmoil that came there would have been much more difficult if my company hadn't had Bitcoin on the balance sheet before that. But isn't it a tradition in Wall Street to tip 10% of your earnings to the management company? Michael Saylor said if Bitcoin goes up 35%, but micro strategy goes up 25%, you would be better in micro strategy even though if you had the Bitcoin, you'd be 10% richer. But the elegance of dealing with a managerial structure like this, the difficulty of learning how to hold your own Bitcoin isn't that worth the 10% obviously to the broker or the micro strategy or meta-planet holder. I don't think I'm qualified to answer that, but I do think that disintermediation is sexy. It would be cool if we could do that vertical integration and I could get 10% from everybody and it would be like a middleman. I would like to be the middleman, right? 10% do you not? Yeah, why can't that be a micro strategy? Dan, what do you think? Should they see the articles about Bitcoin hoarders? Micro strategies finally down, the stocks down, it's probably goodbye now. Should it trade at 10 times? It's Bitcoin reserves or two times, as Jed has said, or is this a more reasonable evaluation for micro strategy meta-planet and the other Bitcoin hoarders as we remember, dragons hoard Bitcoiners' hodl. I think micro strategy smashed it with strategy, fun live, but it's lost its kind of weight because of the fact that the ETFs have made it more accessible for these funds and people that were previously unable to buy Bitcoin using pension funds, for example, to be able to get in. There was a premium initially because you couldn't switch your pension over to buy Bitcoin directly. Now we've got these Bitcoin ETFs, it changes the ball game completely. There is obviously the argument if you said that you've got the third party risk of someone holding the coins, but you're offsetting the risk, right? Because that's a choice that you make. You can have the risk yourself or you can hand off the risk to someone else to manage it for you. If you're someone that's not technically, you don't have a technical mindset, it could be a very fearful thing knowing that your whole destiny is in your hands of holding those keys. Actually, I think it was a quote from Lotte that I saw recently. It was a lot of things. No, in fact, it was not so fast. He mentioned about the fact that one of the biggest kind of Bitcoiners dreams is to make it in Bitcoin in terms of having enough to live for the rest of your life and then just disappear. A lot of these people, they make enough and they just disappear. Part of the reason is because the more Bitcoin increases in value, if you're a self-custody person, the more risk you have being a wrench attack and whatever other types of attacks there are. People are making a conscious decision to actually offset that risk and say, well, I'd rather not even have the possibility of a say a wrench attack and just hand it over to holding micro-strategy or holding a Bitcoin ETF. Which has got its own difficulties of how hard it is to get my money out from these different areas and having these different safety systems in place just in case something like that happens. So whilst it was a proper cash cow, it's not so much now. However, there's also other kind of nefarious things that I've read about. Not nefarious, but speculation that some of these companies, the directors obviously have to declare their shares, etc. But they may have used other people, had other people buy their shares, then gone public with for them, then gone public with the fact that they're stacking a bunch of Bitcoin. The share price increases massively, they then dump the shares, they buy the Bitcoin or buy the shares back after they realise that the premium is over. So there is a kind of more snydly way that people have tried to make money from it. But yeah, I think it's all about offsetting the risk for a lot of people now, especially with what we're hearing about, the ledger guy having his, the ledger guy had his finger cut off or something like that. There was a wave in France of kidnappings and ETFs become attractive because of that. I've found that they're also attractive because you can borrow against them. If you have ETFs in a regular portfolio, you can then borrow against that portfolio. So you can then take your cash out without selling your Bitcoin, your paper Bitcoin that you've given to someone else. But at least you can borrow against it and get fiat money to live your life without having to sell your Bitcoin. And that's at very low rates, much lower than any of the crypto lenders by a factor of 10%. So yeah, that is an interesting fact of the ETF world. It's a really big difference versus how much stock you have versus how much Bitcoin you have. Lots of people are calculating their micro strategy stock into a Bitcoin number. But like we all know from startups or any movie ever, they're going to dilute your stock. Your stock is going to be worth less micro strategy. Somebody had class A, you have class C, bad news for you. You're getting 10% less Bitcoin. Whereas if you have a Bitcoin number like 0.001, you have that number. So it would be much better to hold in that way. And the other way, and we've seen recently with micro strategy, initially he was selling to big Wall Street people this last round. He did a retail round selling to normal people. It still sold out. He got lots of money. He bought Bitcoin the timing worked out so far. But we're keeping an eye on it, which moves to the exit question, will micro strategy and meta-planet continue? Will we continue to see these huge buys, these huge raises or has Bitcoin Treasury companies cooled down? Dan Eve, does it continue or cooled down? I think it's going to come in another wave. I think a lot of companies have heard about it and they're prepping up to start it. And they'll be like the second wave of companies doing it. But the more accessible Bitcoin becomes to invest in via other vessels, the less we're going to see that as a sideway into a segue into Bitcoin. An alternative route into owning Bitcoin. The perfect way in companies are a seg with there's many ways. But it will be a seg with it. One thing you second wave, think about Bank America. If they suddenly say we're 10% backed by Bitcoin and then Wells Fargo says 15% where did you get there? Wave, will it be a second wave or is it going to cool down? No, that's 20 or 30 years from now when the banks start saying they're backed. But there will be an innovation wave on it. But Bitcoin as a Treasury asset will become institutionalized, I think. But it won't become a sensationalized asset where people chase the stock. So it's not a Wall Street bet thing anymore. And one thing you said earlier, Dan, I'd like to echo that. The way I think about it is what is the motive of these people? The directors that you said are like buying the stock and selling the stock and then using that to get the Bitcoin and cheating everybody. And management cheats the shareholders. I have been screwed out of so much in stock investing between 1995 and 2009. I lost a lot of money in stocks because management made bad decisions that were not in favor of the shareholders and screwed me as a shareholder over by diluting stock. So I learned the hard way that you don't ever trust a company or management. But what is their motive? So if the company, if the management, if their goal really is to stack more Bitcoin and to have Bitcoin, then they are probably good. But if their goal is to stack more fiat and get more fiat for themselves, then they are evil. They are not working in the best interest of the shareholder. They are working in their own best interest. And you can tell a lot about a person by what they're trying to stack. And that's that's sort of how I see that closing out on that. And the premiums Thomas, I didn't say two times. I think microstructure should trade at the Bitcoin spot value of their treasury plus the value of their business, which is like a hundred million bucks. So the company shouldn't trade at more than spot value plus a hundred million bucks. We've also seen different strategies for these Bitcoin companies and ETFs. Some like Nakamoto have claimed that they would be buying and selling the peaks. I don't know how they determine that. Others like Strikah said, we are going to hold on to everything. We are just going to hold on. It is very simple. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. And again, as an eBay user, I never received any stock for being an early user of eBay completely screwed nothing at all. Moving on to issue four. Parabolic Bitcoin rally is coming according to Bitcoin magazine. And there's more. The Winklevi twins say that Bitcoin is at the bottom of the first inning. It could reach one million dollars in 10 years. Dan Eve, what do you think about everyone's most important aspect of Bitcoin? The price, the price, the price, and the price of Bitcoin? Well, yeah, we've had a lot of not controversy, but a lot of fun recently about the old ballets that have suddenly come alive. But that just seems to happen every time there's a ball run. It just seems like every time there's a ball run, you don't really hear about the wallets. Maybe it's because they're very clever people, but you don't really hear about the wallets that have been dormant for years. Suddenly, suddenly becoming live and being used and moved around at the trough of the bear markets, it's always when the ball run happens because people have their price targets. They finally snap and they're like, I can't hack it any longer. Or they're just like the James Hau guy that finally find their hard drive. And it takes a ball run to be able to motivate them. But the more the time goes on, the more the people get into the hodle mantra, we've definitely had a pattern like a complete shift from the early days when I got in relatively early 2013 about it. It's money. We use it as money, it's cash, it's we use it and moving into the frame of like we hoddle it, we don't spend it, it's precious as possible. And that mindset spreads, it's changed completely. There's not many people that really use it or want to use it any more. They want to they want to just keep it. And then even just, even just pying with it becomes such a difficult task. And as that mindset grows in people, it's like a mind virus that says you can't sell your Bitcoin, you can't park with it. And so as the social aspect of that just continues, it becomes hard for people to sell the Bitcoin, especially when you've just said strike saying, they're strategy is literally just a never sell. But at the same time, there's the fear that when you have a company strategy that has such a huge proportion of Bitcoin owned, they are going to, they can't order for they're going to sell one day, right? How does it work? They're going to have to sell something one day. And how much is that going to be in what sort of under what conditions is that going to be under? So whilst it's a really cool to hear about these big companies that are hoarding it, there's also a bit of fear that comes with that. As what is their point of sale? What is strategies strategy? And I know everyone wants to borrow against their Bitcoin now, but if we think about strategy or a government level holding and we say, okay, the government of Texas wants to borrow against their 10 billion dollars in Bitcoin, there's not a big enough lender. Just like in the movie, the big short, you have to create these new investments. And then their may or may not be someone they're willing to take that new investment, especially if Bitcoin keeps going up, who's going to take the bet against it? That's a hard bet. As Dan was saying as well, we've also seen real estate is losing its interest for a lot of people. I'm not a big fan, but real estate adventure investor Grant Cardone. I think he was on the something about like being a billionaire show and they made him restart his life and start sales again with nothing. And it was really fascinating, but recently he sold his like $44 million mansion for Bitcoin. So if you look at these people that previously said, you can't get enough real estate, my life is about real estate. They invest all the way up to the mansion level. And then they say, well, I kind of want what that libertarian kid's got hidden underneath his house. I want these numbers on a blockchain. Jed, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? The Winklevice saying maybe a million dollars. And also others selling their real estate to get this valuable digital number thing that we've been talking about for so long. I think it's not a question of Bitcoin going up. It's a question of the dollar going down. How fast is the dollar going to go down? How fast is Fiat going to go down? And how fast are they going to print? Is what's going to drive that largely? So when measuring Bitcoin in dollar terms, I feel kind of funny because I have actually started thinking of wealth in Bitcoin terms as the reserve asset for the planet. And that when you start thinking that way, you think about how fast are these other assets going to go down in Bitcoin? How are they going to depreciate in Bitcoin terms? And the first thing that's going to be demonetized or reduced in value is Fiat currency. Obviously, we're seeing that we've been seeing it for over a decade. But real estate and gold, these are the things, the monetary premium real estate as a store of value is going to lose its appeal because it's not mobile. It's hard to sell. It takes months to sell. You got, and it has upkeep and it has taxes and you don't really own it. That's why I think Texas is debating it and Florida is proposing it that there will be no property tax on your primary residence, something I've said for a long time. There should be no tax on a primary residence because the government should not be able to make anybody homeless. If I inherit a house from my parents and I can't afford to pay the property tax on it, I'll be made homeless because I don't have enough money to pay the property tax on my family home. And that is simply wrong that a government would make someone who grew up in a house homeless. So, so looking at real estate from that perspective that you don't actually own it because if you don't pay the property tax, they'll be taken away. It's not a good store of value. It's not a good asset for the long term for generational wealth. Bitcoin is. So, it makes total sense that Bitcoin is going to demonetize or take away the store of value and the monetary premium in all these other assets. So, we got a long ways to go and they are going to go down in Bitcoin terms. It's not a question whether Bitcoin will be a million dollars. It will be someday. Ten years maybe, one year maybe, 100 years? I don't know. It did. I can't put it did. I just know that it's going to go up. It's going up forever, Laura. You know, that's it. And so, that's sort of how I see that one. Yeah, it's just what it is. Oh, and sadly, the endless printing of dollars has deprived a lot of people of their houses, as well as the high medical costs in the United States. Most people trade their house for their medical costs. We all die. Anyway, spoiler alert and the medical costs are still there. The house is gone. But maybe Bitcoin gives them a chance. And again, maybe we should all be renting. Who knows what the right thing to do is at all times. But it is like Jed said, it would be great if they had no property tax on the primary residence. You could establish a home. Of course, other people would establish a giant mansion home, as we've seen in Florida, where they can't take your residence. So a lot of people who are under suspicion moved to Florida by large homestead. They call it there and they homestead in a giant mansion. But I do agree with the core of what Shed saying people shouldn't be forced out of their houses. We do raise a lot of funds for the government through property taxes. So I don't see that going away. Dan, you had more on this? Yeah, I was going to say, back to that shift. I think Judges said about the guy that Portfolio was saying, rather than holding it by housing Portfolio, I'm going to shift it into Bitcoin. That goes along with what we were saying earlier about the shift from the next generation, knowing about the digital goal, which is Bitcoin versus other physical assets. My parents have always been about properties. Like, property is the thing that you buy. I've just seen so many people recently that have shifted and said, I always knew properties because you think about from a technical level, right? There's just understanding about inflation and the thing that an asset that can appreciate. Most people don't think of gold as an asset that could appreciate. They think about the easiest thing to think about is property. Own property. You guys don't even know about compound interest. Even when I was talking earlier, I was like, you get a savings account. You get 101, you get 103, you get 105. It's a magical thing as a kid. So like, pals is at the base level of appreciation in people's minds. And then you've got things like, you've got gold, you've got stocks and people understanding dividends and that sort of thing. And then Bitcoin is this new holy grail of understanding technology and all these kind of things mixed in about scarcity and stuff like that. But it does seem like we are moving into a way and tying back to the off at the handing off of risk from owning your own Bitcoin to having it in an ETF or that side. There's also the people are seeing like the handing off of the risk of owning a property. Like it's not so 20 years ago, 30 years ago, there was so much like less stuff to do. And like, people didn't have phones in their hand all the time that glued their attention. You were bored a lot more often. You were just bored. There were times where you were bored. Whereas now, and you had and you're like, what do I do? I'm going to do something to the property. I'll like fix it up a bit. Now people will like, they've got so much going on. They just want to hand off that risk. Give it to someone else to maintain light bulb. Well, obviously light bulb guys. That's not, but you know, the boiler breaks, give it to someone else to organize and sort out and fix and all that. And just own the Bitcoin rent and own Bitcoin. That's going to appreciate much more than a house. And then in 10, 10, 20 years time anyway, you've accelerated far beyond what you would have done with just having one house that you've gradually paid off and all of that debt that you've paid off in the meantime. And you've actually still had the same level of house, but you've had Bitcoin that appreciates a bit way beyond what the property market's done. And I think everyone in the audience wants to see how much their Bitcoins going to appreciate and they're waiting for the exit question predicting against the magical predictor ball, the source of all truth in this universe. Jed, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? Well, higher, I'd say higher. Jed says higher, Dan, Eve, higher or lower. Oh, higher, baby. All time high. Let's go for it. All time high is only 10 K away. Ish. It was a close today. And as you know, the price always goes up when we do shows historically since we started doing shows, the price is nothing but up. You can look it up, but we must check with the eight ball that knows all, will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It's very hard to read. There are a lot of bubbles. It's been shaken a lot this ball. Let's see. Outlook, not good. Outlook, not good. The ball is bearish. We have one more story for you, the bonus story this week. As we've been covering it for years, he's back again. For 12 years, he searched in vain for his currently 737 million pound fortune in a landfill. It says euros, actually. Now a new series gives him a second chance. James Howell is back again. He's searching for his hard drive in the landfill. But this time, he's got an American television series that is covering him. He had previously given up hope as we discuss many times. His girlfriend threw out the hard drive. He thinks it went to this landfill. He's been talking to the council. I thought he should have run for council. I thought he should have printed his own coin. He should have had some large corporation where everyone could invest like a lottery ticket. You get 12 X if he finds it. You get nothing if he doesn't find it. Some people like that kind of risk. They're into it. Dan, you know about councils. Howell had given up. But now he's going to be on TV. So one more time, we all think the hard drives crushed. I think the platters are smashed. We don't think the data is there. Even if you reconstructed it. But Dan, he's back again. One more time, our pal James. What do you think? Well, this is this story just gets even more silly because there's plenty of people that have lost money. But the fact that he's lost this hard drive and it's in a physical place. But it's it's in a giant landfill. The odds of finding it are so ridiculously slim. But also the fact that it's like he's taken it to the European Court of Human Rights. Now one thing that I've seen as the biggest problems of this whole, the biggest hurdle to this, where I just don't think he should be allowed to do it. Simple as is that you would be infringing on the rights of everyone whose private rubbish was put in there. Anyway, else his hard drive was recovered and it's not his specific hard drive. They would have to route through that data and find a bunch of personal information. And it's not because they're finding a crime or something like that. They're they're rooting through the information to to resolve it to solve a crime. This is to make someone money. And and I just don't understand how a court is going to pass that. Yeah, you can rife all through everyone else's rubbish, search through all of their hard drives just to find your money and we'll take a cut of it. I just and the European Court of Human rights, what are they going to do? Well, they're like, oh, yeah, we supersede the right. We're going to supersede the rights of all the people in in Wales, for example, whose data is going to be rifled through because of what is it still his drive? Yes, I'm not a lawyer, but in the US, usually when the trash is picked up, it's not yours anymore. Yep. You don't own that trash anymore. It's possible he might have a key or a password. They'd have to additionally crack. So maybe he could work a deal with a government. I think it would be still a percentage exchange. He's not going to have 100% of this. Oh, yeah, he'll organize a cut, but it still means that they're rifling through other people's private information. Which they gave up though, it's not private anymore. If you don't wipe your drive before you throw it out, that's your problem. There's still some expectation of privacy. If the drive goes to a landfill, you don't expect this guy's going to come along looking for hard drives, pick up every single one, then find yours. Maybe has the horrible, horrible data on it or something and he can make a side deal doing this for all we know he's going to make a reality show each hard drive. We found another hard drive. What's on it? It's like that storage unit shell. That's really like storage was in the guy saying, and this is the sequel. The reality show producers right now, right in the center. If we found any hard drives, we could put them publicly put the contents on there because who knows who owns it? Why not just do it? It's child porn. And it's so funny. It's all the work to guard your privacy with the cookie warnings and the the porn warnings and the whatever else you guys got going over there. And then and then they're going to say, no, this one man's quest for a hard drive supersedes all privacy regulations. Yeah. Yeah. He should have the serial number of it. He should have the receipt when he bought it. You know, or some such. If you don't have the receipt, how could he claim it from the landfill? I mean, I can't get things from Best Buy without a receipt. I mean, you got to have their seat. You didn't save the receipt. Oh, but again, it's a great chance for me to reference Douglas Copeland, the great writer and his book, Shampoo Planet, that everyone should check out in Shampoo Planet. One of the characters suggested they could open history land and that you two could dig through actual history and sort it and shift it and take sift it and save some of it home. Yes, you could dig through old landfills and find old antique cans and garbage from the 80s and the 50s. And he was just talking about tricking people into digging and sorting the landfills for free. And we're right there. We've got it for hard drives. So check out Shampoo Planet by Douglas Copeland. A Jedi, what do you think we talk about this guy all the time? We said last time, wouldn't be the last time because he'd given up and I said, oh, he'll never give up. And I just plotted in my mind, like 737 million euros, 800 million euros, 900, at what point does a large level corporation or some kind of gambling guy get in and say, hey, at one to 10, we should buy this land. We should dig this up. We're there again, Jed, but now it's a TV show. Is he going to get it? I mean, obviously, we're going to watch this show. I'm glued to this. I want to get me to get me the download as soon as I can. Let's get this. But what do you think, Jed, about the show? It will end sadly. Oh, no big victory. My favorite is still the guy who he'd forgotten his key and they had some way they were going to crack it. And he couldn't use their way because he'd already signed with another company and they didn't know how to crack it. So now the solution is there, but he can't use it because he made another deal and who knows if it expires. But there's lots of fun old bitcoins out there and we're going to keep talking about him. James Howe and his landfill Bitcoin that we use coins, guys who locked up hundreds of Bitcoin on a CD or something like that. They don't have the code. Stuff like that just keeps happening and it's going to be part of Bitcoin lore forever. So thanks to everybody for joining us. We're going to go to predictions or story of the week. Jed, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Anything that you're working on at Quantum Project X? No, observing at the moment. I think that there are a lot of interesting things going on. It is a surreal time to be alive. I don't know how much of the news is true, but most of it obviously isn't, which makes me really doubt history. So I'm trying to get back to reality. There's been crazy news every day. It feels more and more like we're living in a movie. Someone referenced Stephen King's The Dead Zone where the president is angry and starts a war to distract from his domestic problems. That's a book from the 80s. Obviously, widely available is a movie as well. Other things need to be happening like Robocop where crime is rising and we need corporate police to stop it and the corporate police are helping the crime rise. All kinds of things are great out there. And like you say, you could never trust what you read. You never know who this guy is working for. If he was just a student or just a friend, he just knows how to shoot really good. It's really bizarre. There's nothing good at shooting. And the normalization of violence in politics is something that is happening. And that is a sad thing to see. And then sadly in the United States, our only hope comes from satire and the South Park guys who keep saying that it's a small penis every week. And that's the largest way to hurt a large emperor who has a large ego is to say there's a small penis. But then now there's violence as well. Dan, Eve, what do you think you have a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Just very quickly. Is there a new South Park? Because episode tonight? Is it tonight? Was it last night? I think it might be delayed. I think they're doing it every other week schedule. I hope you help some right the current stuff. And unfortunately makes us wait. But it's been a great season so far. They have temporarily, hopefully temporarily censored the recent episode about debate where Cartman becomes a right wing kind of disagree with you debate guy in the mold of Charlie Kelly who they are Charlie Kirk excuse me who they give a award out to during the show the Charlie Kirk debater master debater award something like that. It's apparently not funny anymore. Hopefully it'll be funny again soon. But yes, it's a sad time or it's a it's a time of violence. I don't know what it is. Let's let's get off it. Go ahead Dan. Well, he thought it was very funny at the time, which is just you know, we were received by him. But yeah, so I'm I start so the story of the week, my predictions bitfest 2025 is going to be really cool. That's bitfest.co.uk and then story of the week. I've been I've been vibe coding man. I've been vibe coding. It's pretty cool. I've been using like a mixture of cursor and a bunch of other stuff and making some call it, perhaps I've got some really cool like app that's all like it's so close to actually being released and it's not anything crypto related. It's to do with I can't I'm not going to tell you one because it's so easy to make the damn thing. But it's just a really I've just got a few kind of really cool like little ideas and I'm just going to I'm just been working on those and it's it's come so long since I gave chat GBT like years ago. I was like make me a snake game and I've slowly iterated on that knowing absolutely nothing about coding because most of my works in Seekor and stuff like that. And now you can literally just build a full a fully working app. It's incredible using like cursor and other apps. Firebase Studio and stuff. And yeah, although the other problem is Firebase Studio is it bids you up too much man. I'm what there's I read about people becoming narcissists from using from using AI and it's so true. Like everything you say especially with Firebase is like that's such a that's such a great idea man. How did you think of that? And you're like, oh it's Firebase stop you know you start and then it's like, oh I'm sorry I'm really sorry. It just makes me definitely one of the things covered by the South Park guys. They're like, oh I want to make a restaurant where we serve salads made out of meat. And it's like, that's a great idea. I have many ways I could help you do that. And the woman realized she's like this machine just agrees with everything. Yeah. It does it does you've got you've got to be careful here. You end up going out a route and you're like, this is actually an appalling idea. Why did you agree with me or even just adding a feature? You're like, the idea is still okay but you've just we've just spent like a day building something that and you you sent me down that line Firebase or you know, cursor or whatever. But no it's really cool. Check it out. Curses are just like just and you can give it just a one liner and it will create you something. It's pretty fantastic and then it's relatively build it you know. But the main thing is if you're going to do it, but just get hot on version control straight away because it will break something and then it takes ages to fix if you're not testing every iteration. So yeah. And if you put anything publicly facing audit it carefully because it ignores security. Yes. 100%. Well, it sounds fantastic Dan and really fun. Everyone can get involved with some vibe coding. And like Dan said, shout out to bitfest at bitfest.uk. November 21st through 23rd in Manchester, UK. It's a grassroots event Bitcoin for the people. So go buy your tickets today at bitfest.uk. Also just a story of the week. I just watched this documentary called Super Slash Man about Christopher Reeves. It was really inspiring the way that he accepted and worked with his paralysis trying to raise funds and scientific awareness for others. How he was you know strong as a person strong as an actor and then strong with a disability. So it was a really strong movie. A really cool movie called Super Dash Man or Super Slash Man something like that. And very cool to see the Christopher Reeves store Christopher Reeves story. Check that out. And that's about it for this week. It's a great chance to give us a thumbs up down below. Say hello in the comments. We'll go check out the chat. I hope we did good reviewing the comments from last week. Obviously we don't get everything right on issues like knots and consensus changes, but we try to get them right. We try to explain it to you guys and have a fun debate about it. Let us know in the comments. Hopefully we did better this week. We'll try to get Ben on here soon to give us the technical versions of things. But until then, until next time. Bye. Bye.