The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest citossis, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Evening everybody? Jameson Lopp from Kasa. Howdy. Ben Arck from LN Bits. Evenal. Vlad Kosta from Bitcoin Takeover Magazine. Hello. I've waited here for you. Never long. I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on. Issue one. The price. The price. The price of Bitcoin. The price of Bitcoin is $84,467. A coin down. It's up 4.4% in the last 24 hours. That's $1,184. Satoshi's just on the wrong side of the thousand Satoshi barrier. But first, a message from the President of the United States. The federal government is already among the largest holders of Bitcoin, as you know. Who knows? Tell your Bitcoin. That's the American who will follow the rule that every Bitcoin knows very well. Never sell your Bitcoin. That's a little phrase that they have. I don't know if that's right or not. Who the hell knows? Never sell your Bitcoin. Who the hell knows? As it says here, Michael's sailor likely spent millions lobbying Donald Trump to say never sell your Bitcoin. But instead, he says, I don't know if they're right or not. Who the hell knows? The cryptoverse. Bitcoin's bear market has hit the newcomers the hardest with people who have just bought Bitcoin and the Trump run up taking the most of losses. And the seller exhaustion may be incoming sooner rather than later. But let's go to our panel. Victoria Jones, Bitcoin, it's great, I guess. And what do you think about the price? Go ahead. Yeah, it's very disappointing. I mean, I think a lot of older Bitcoiners who follow the cycles weren't expecting it to have topped just quite yet. And who knows? I think in 2021, it dipped and then went straight back up again. So we could be on the road to doing that. Or we could have already topped. It's really difficult to tell. And I think part of the problem is because we've now got the exchange traded funds involved. They've got huge financial resources and they have the ability to influence the market. Either way, which has already disrupted the cycle. I mean, in many respects, we took off on the ball market much sooner than we would have done otherwise. And it may well be that the ball markets broke sooner than we'd done otherwise. And so it's very difficult to tell. I mean, at the moment, the stock market appears to be struggling. I hear on the great vine that Warren Buffett is selling every single stock that he can get his hands on pretty much. So he's expecting something. And again, because of the ETFs, I think the price of Bitcoin could well be much more tied to the stock market than it has been in the past. It's very influenced by the money supply. And although there is additional money supply in the market, the government's doing everything they can to try and slow down inflation. And so that may well be putting breaks on the price compared to the massive ball market that people were expecting. So yeah, disappointing, not terribly surprising that I've been saying this for a long time. I don't think market conditions are necessarily favorable for the kind of ball markets we've had in the past. But as Donald Trump says, who the hell knows? Indeed, who the hell knows? And Warren Buffett, he's smarter than any of us. He already sold before all of this happens. He's sitting in T-Bells watching the rest of the market go. And as we've talked about before, this is a temporary reprieve. They bribed Donald Trump. He doesn't actually believe in any of this. I know you want him to believe and he's made the speeches that made you think he believes. But just like with Ross Oldbred, the drug war is not over. The Bitcoin war is not over. Of course, who the hell knows? Maybe he'll change his mind tomorrow. Jameson Lobb, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? And of course, our fair weather friend in the White House. I don't think much about the price. It's kind of a waste of time thinking about. I don't think we've ever had a ball market that went straight up without having corrections. You know, it's different every time, but it also rhymes. So there's different specific reasons for why these things happen. But that's just the general trend. You don't go straight up. You did trigger me with that Jacob King account, that well-known fudster and long time scammer, formerly known as crypto whale. He should be blocked and muted by everyone. You should not listen to that guy at all. I mean, this is fud right here. We have absolutely, there's no proof that sailor has spent any money on political lobbying. I don't think he has to spend money on lobbying. He's spent enough money to buy all of the lobbying and goodwill that he ever needs, just by putting himself in the current financial position of biggest Bitcoin shittle of all time. Pretty good. Pretty good. We'll have to see how it goes. Let's go to Ben Arck. What do you think about the price and the person in the White House who may or may not support the Bitcoin? Yeah, it's interesting, you say that, Jameson, because I had the same impression of that tweet that it seemed a bit sensationalist and he was just trying to grab a few cheap likes. I didn't take it to be actual and useworthy. But yeah, I got the same vibe. It's just a wet flannel, the whole strategic Bitcoin reserve thing. I thought, to be honest, I thought, I kind of, of my Trump's clever wordplay in that he's like, yeah, I'm doing the thing, but you know, because he's sort of signaling to people who might not trust a Bitcoin that, you know, I'm not really, I'm just sort of doing it half-assed, I'm not really doing the thing, whatever, they say this. And so I thought it was quite a good wordplay on his part because it kind of keeps them happy as well. But the whole thing is a wet flannel, like the, we had this sort of perfect storm of good news, which tends to happen to drive bull markets and get them started. And then that kind of stopped. And then it's not really, you know, the strategic Bitcoin reserve is just the Bitcoin they've stolen. And now they're just saying they're not going to sell it. So they're just doing inaction. And then they're calling it Bitcoin's strategic preserve. And I do think that there's probably a whole bunch of Wall Street bros who've made a quick buck on the classic, you know, by the room of sell the news, like people who trade on that. And it was the play in this case, you know, it was by the room of sell the news. And it played out well for them. So I think that's probably a lot of downward pressure on the old price there. But I'm pretty bearish. I think it's probably buckled the upward trend. And now we're probably just going to have a multi-edged like best cycle now. So sorry about that. Yeah. What you're going to do goes up the goes down. Clever wordplay. That's not what we paid for. I want to get what we paid for. Glad cost. And what do you think about the president and the price of Bitcoin? I wonder if every foot, everything could ever be this real forever. If everything could ever be this good again. And I will stop with the food fighters references now. I think they're getting old. I think Trump is a master of deniability. So he knows exactly what to say because he's been involved in lawsuits for decades now. And he knows exactly that he's supposed to say that just in case who the hell knows. I don't know. Maybe someone knows, but not me, whatever. Never saw your Bitcoin. Nice phrase. So I know for a fact that he basically introduced nihilism into the market, but his Trump token. And from that point onwards, what he proved with the Trump token is that most of the prices are overvalued. Because if someone can just come in and with just one defi platform on Solana, get in the top 20 of cryptos, he basically signaled to the rest of the market. Okay, everything is overvalued because you can do this. I mean, imagine all the people working on something like, I don't know, Ethereum, Plastic or whatever. There's some development there. They spent years working on that one just to get flipped, even Monero, Monero got flipped by the Trump token in one day just by you can just do things. We're in the you can just do things. It's very, very famous like him or don't like him agree with him politically. He's a very, very famous man. Monero doesn't carry the kind of way to that similar name. There's value and utilitarian investment and then there's speculative investment. And we're definitely in the speculative investment market right now. That's what meme coins have taken us to the furthest extreme edge away from value investing. And it's actually kind of the SEC's fault. They basically were pushing so hard on the how we test for so many years that everyone was like, all right, we won't promise anything at all. We're just going to put crypto tokens up and you can basically speculate based on how funny or how popular that one word or ideas. It's all about a name and an image as we were talking about before the show. There's a recently launched ask coin. I don't think you should buy it. It's a little like the movie ass in the adocracy. We've gotten to that level. But yes, if you're interested, ask coin is available. Thomas is pump and ask coin. Oh, yeah, I got a bag. Got a bag of Vlad anymore on this issue. Go back to you. Are you pumping? Yes, Thomas. Not pumping ass, but it was fun that you mentioned Dave Grohl and the food fighters. I am listening to his audiobook story teller right now. It's really cool. He's in a punk rock band living in the van and on his way to start him. So I want to check out story teller. Before we run out of time here, we're going to move on to the exit question predicting against the magic Bitcoin predictor ball, the source of all knowledge in the future. Victoria Jones will the price be higher or lower this time next week? Well, we've been on the downward trajectory for a bit. So maybe it's time for a little bit of reprieve. So I'd say higher positivity. All right, Jameson Lop higher or lower as a permeable. The answer is always higher. See, that's what I say. And then I get destroyed in the market. Then arc higher or lower. I think Lop, unless there's some some event which shows to people that Trump isn't lunatic, maybe the Ukraine war thing stops. Then I think that might give the market a little more faith in his decision making and then things like Bitcoin will go up. But until that happens, we're just going to keep going. It is so hard. Now there's so much uncertainty out there. If you were working for a company and you had to order widgets and you had to deliver widgets, you don't know how many widgets you're going to need. That kind of uncertainty bad for the stock market bad for people wanting to do. What they still call risk investing. And that means Bitcoin, Vlad Costa higher or lower this time next week. I want to say higher because my rent is due. But honestly, I think we've had all the bullish narratives play out. We've had everything that we expected somewhat coming and happening. And yet the price doesn't follow. And my intuition is that these. I'm not sure if there are government agencies or local governments or whatever buying Bitcoin. It seems like the federal government just decided to keep the seized coins and that's the reserve. But I'm pretty sure that if they're going to buy, they want to buy lower and they're going to manipulate the sentiment on the market towards this, just like BlackRock did before the ETF. So maybe for next week lower. Well, certainly the news on Bitcoin has never been more positive, but that's not doing anything for the price. I'll let's see what the ball thinks. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Of course, shaking it can cause bubbles. And it says, as I see it, yes, as I see it, yes, the ball has spoken. Everyone can push their orders in. Go ahead and push buy right now. You're all set. Moving on to issue two, US Senator and congressman introduced strategic Bitcoin reserve bills to buy one million Bitcoin. Cynthia Loomis from Wyoming and others have launched a Bitcoin for America summit where the lawmakers announced their plan for a federal Bitcoin reserve that would see the United States buy one million Bitcoin. James and Lop is this the Bitcoin reserve we've promised and given that nothing has passed Congress, I think in years, is there any opportunity or any chance that this will pass Congress? I would be very surprised if it did. One of my many projects is tracking which politicians actually have skin in the Bitcoin game. And last I checked, I think it's still only around 10 or so members of Congress. I think there's a higher concentration of Bitcoin owners more in the cabinet and closer Trump circles. So yeah, I don't really see the incentives there. Like in general, I think the Democrats are still very anti crypto and a lot of the Republicans still don't get it. So I think there's a lot of education that needs to be done. Ben Arck, a real crypto reserve bill, one million Bitcoin? I mean, yeah, it's probably going to go through. But I mean, stories like that might urge some of the governments to start buying up some Bitcoin or some states to individually start buying up some Bitcoin. I don't know. Maybe that'll be a good thing for the price you know, but yeah, it's not going anywhere. That's a lot of cost. What about the Bitcoin reserve? Is this the one we've been waiting for? Sure, but why just stop at one million? Why not buy two million? Three million? Whatever. Good luck finding that though. Victoria Jones, the government buying Bitcoin, everything good here? I think the whole notion is completely ridiculous. I mean, if you actually understand Bitcoin and the way in which Fiat currency works, I mean, you know, government and Bitcoin are just two completely incompatible systems and ultimately Bitcoin is going to eat Fiat currency's lunch. So all they're doing is they're just pressing ahead on their own destruction. But of course, you know, as Jameson says, you know, there's a lot of education, you know, in many respects, the very knowledgeable Bitcoiners are praying on their naivety. And it's just a race gets time to see how long it takes before they figure it out. Well, and again, these are the people who run the entire government. They run the president, the house, the senate. They could talk to the Federal Reserve. They could say, hey, print more money, print less money, make a digital Federal Reserve coin. Whatever their problem is with the existing system, they own the dollar. Whenever they bring these bills up, it drives me crazy because they're advertising against the dollar. They're advertising against the thing their own. Unless there may be traders to the country and they want the United States and the dollar being the world's reserve coin to fail, which would be chaotic and bad for business. I don't understand this. The idea that a few million Bitcoin could somehow pay off the national debt. If they sold the Bitcoin to pay off the debt, they'd crash the price of Bitcoin. Okay, if they try to buy the Bitcoin stealthily or secretly, they're still buying so many, they drive up the price of Bitcoin. Unfortunately, I have to agree with the hundreds of articles written by the mainstream media where they all label this as an attempt for Bitcoiners and maybe altcoiners to get the government to buy their bags. It looks bad. It doesn't make any sense. They own the dollar. They own the world's reserve currency. If you don't like how it runs, change it. Don't throw it away. Lose all of your power. This doesn't make any sense. They could do a save. Maybe the sale was all about, maybe sale was like, look, this USD thing, we're going to lose our hydronomy. When it starts to do the dust spiral, we're just going to print a shitload of dollar and then buy some Bitcoin. Print dollars, buy Bitcoin, print dollars, buy Bitcoin, sell good ones, buy Bitcoin. Maybe that's the plan. Do you think the saleer understands Bitcoin? With every buy, they would get less. With every buy, they would get less Bitcoin. They would print more dollars. They would get less Bitcoin. Almost seems like Satoshi's plan from the beginning. And something we've talked about before that the more they print the less they get, it makes no sense. And again, they own the dollar. If you're in any other government, any other business, and you're like, we should have a Bitcoinerser, that's fine. You don't own the dollar. These guys own the dollar. No, no. You have to think outside the box. Remember, there's always the China strategy. They could ban Bitcoin by a ton of it, unbann it, ban it again, buy a bunch of it. You know, that's the thing. The government has enough power to manipulate the markets if they really wanted to. And also remember that saleer somehow has been hoovering up half a million Bitcoin over the past few years. The price still goes down a lot and he just bars more money and buys more Bitcoin. It is strange. We haven't seen another buy from saleer though. There's been no strategy buys during this dip or this bear market or whatever you want to say. So he does seem to buy. Oh, it's coming. And he sells in he sells quite a lot of Bitcoin too, because he has to manage his accounts. So if you watch the reports, you know, the company reports will state when they've had to sell Bitcoin as well. You could also you could also sell government bonds based on the Bitcoin you've got in your reserve. While you're printing dollars and buying Bitcoin, you could then say, well, look, we've got this asset which is going up. So let me let you sell your government bonds because our government is going to be worth more in the future and offset the price of the well, and then you could also put the taxes up and then destroy the dollars as they go into try and make up for the fact you're printing them, printing them more money. That's what the MNT is would say. Well, and there's some. Yeah, but it's the game fury. It's the software. Have you even read the book? It's like a research paper that was published by a free letter agency if I'm not mistaken or depends again or I don't know. I'm slightly drunk. But my point here is that, you know, the US is going to buy up all the Bitcoin and then China's going to buy all the Bitcoin and then Russia's going to buy all the Bitcoin and you're going to be able to feed five generations from now on just with 0.01 Bitcoin. And then you're going to live in a Citadel and you're going to be isolated from the normies and you're not going to have to deal with their fiat habits again just because this God Emperor Trump decided one day to buy your coins to buy your bags. And it's important. Hattl, never sell your Bitcoin. That's the plan, right? That's why Bitcoin exists. Read the white paper. Bitcoin appeared to peer reserve currency for the US government and game fury that's going to push other nation states into buying it to. That's the mission, right? With a subtitle and everyone gets lambo's. It sounds pretty good. It's not quite what we read originally, but I like it. Let's move on to the exit question. Now that we've had the Trump Bitcoin reserve, as we said, the stolen and seized coins. Now we have the Congress or Senate idea of a Bitcoin reserve, which is likely not going to happen. The Bitcoin price is fallen by 6.5% as volatility continues after Trump's Bitcoin reserve plan. Is there any positive news out there? Is there anything good that you can think about that's going to happen in the future for Bitcoin? A lot of people had hoped that this strategic reserve comes through. That changes the price around. Jameson Lopp, tell me something good about Bitcoin for the future. Well, I mean, Bitcoin doesn't care about all of this other stuff. It doesn't even know that it has an exchange rate. So the foundational principles of the system are sound and it's going to continue operating. Now, if what you care about is the purchasing power of your Bitcoin, then sure there's a lot of other external factors that go into that. It's quite volatile on a day-to-day basis, but the scarcity is set in stone. That's not going to be changing really the only thing that we're seeing now. It's a new cycle. It's a new cohort of adopters. That's why everybody's talking about nation-states or even states or institutions. This is, I think, really the question is how might the nature of Bitcoin itself change if, indeed, this institutional adoption really plays out? What I mean by that is from a governance standpoint, where are all of these pools of Bitcoin going? Are they all going to be held by a few custodians? That can have potential governance ramifications. I think we should be thinking adversarially about what happens if a small number of institutions have a huge amount of Bitcoin and they decide to start taking an interest in the actual development of the protocol. That could have some massive governance-related implications as well if we end up having some sort of controversial changes proposed. The institutions are for it and everybody else is against it or vice versa. What have you? It would be a very different system if you had to have a thousand bitcoins to make a commit to the system or maybe have a thousand bitcoins vote for you or something else. It's a very different programming environment. Ben, are Jameson did pretty good? Do you have anything positive about Bitcoin for the future? We do have to be on guard. We saw it with Sailor. When he started to have just more influence within the space, he started pushing his agenda to keep Bitcoin as a digital gold as opposed to money and medium of exchange, which is the thing I'm really interested in. Banking the bank and all that jazz. There's some cool stuff going down in Surrey name. There's a Bitcoin president, Maya, a lady who's running for president. I was chatting to a friend of mine who's down at the moment and she says I think she thinks there's a lot of potential there. I think off the back of the Al Salvador event, so they're using Galaoys' stable sats a little bit more, which I like. It's good because I think that really is the barrier to entry and it comes to medium exchange for subsistence, wage earning, and bank people. It would be good to see more examples of Bitcoin. You can take unbanked people and then suddenly they've got access to digital money and they can boost up an economy. That's fantastic, but we've got to figure out the pain points such as stability. Ultimately in the Bitcoin dialectic, we'll compete with it because now it exists and then Bitcoin will compete with fear, hence the acquired profitability. Ultimately, Bitcoin has properties which fear can't have such as decentralized nature and lack of trusted third party or need for trusted third parties. Ultimately Bitcoin will become Nash's ideal money and we're just going to wait that out that dialectic. The Bitcoin dialectic has it plays out. Competition, Bitcoin doesn't like competition, it likes submission. Viad Kasa, what about the future of Bitcoin? Tell me something positive. On my show, I interview a lot of developers and a lot of them are very optimistic about something that they want to bring to Bitcoin to increase the ways in which you can use it to increase the utility. It's just that I think the current huddle culture or right now it's not called huddle anymore. It's never sell your Bitcoin and SYB. It's what stands in the way of most of these use cases ever getting traction. Maybe that they're a cool one, they're a novelty. Sooner or later people will say, you know, Bitcoin is for saving, Bitcoin is for this and that. It's unfortunate because you see other currencies like Monero and Litecoin getting traction on other markets and being used as peer-to-peer cash. Whereas Bitcoin, I don't think the Lightning Network became too successful and Ben can basically attest to that because he has one of the best Lightning companies, if not the best one that I'm aware of right now. And Liquid never went anywhere. And I guess it's because it's a federation and they sort of gave up on having a proper two-way peg sidechain. I think there are lots of good ideas. Like I interviewed the three young developers, Robin Linus and Jonas Nick. And I remember Liam Egan, that's his name. And they developed this shielded client-side validation that is very cool. It's basically like a protocol sort of like counterparty where every transaction has 50 bytes in size. I don't want to say anything wrong. I'll assume it's 50 bytes, but it might be lower than this. And they all look the same and it sort of looks like Zcash transactions. They use ZK Snarks for that. And it's so cool and it's exactly what I expect from Bitcoin. These ways to make transactions more efficient and more private in some hacky way because it seems like we're not going to get a hard fork to add that to Bitcoin. But this is exactly what gives me hope that one day we're going to have the perfect sort of money. We need a change of culture, I think, first and foremost. So people accept the fact that others may use Bitcoin in ways that they don't like. Otherwise, we're going to see WBTC becoming much bigger. I think Bitcoin and the guys from Ethereum, they're very much ahead of the curve and they understood they can do this to extend the way in which you can use your BTC. Right now, WBTC on Ethereum is like 100 times bigger than Lightning, which is incredible because I don't see anyone tweeting and saying, hey, look, I just sent a payment with WBTC just like they do with Lightning. There's no cult around it, but it seems like there's a lot of activity. There's liquidity. And I would love to see more of that. There are lots of projects that try to create these ZK relapse that basically serve the purpose of trying to undermine the dominance of WBTC on Ethereum. They're trying to get some of that liquidity with something that has better trust assumptions because there is no centralized custodian. But they need covenants to be able to just launch on the main net. And that one also seems less likely because the covenant conversation has been going for like four years now. It started with CTV when Jeremy tried to go for a speedy trial. And for a while, it just seemed like everyone's coming with a new covenant proposal. There was an attempt to unify all of them and call it the great-stripped restoration. That one never really got traction. Now I think the latest consensus in Jamison can attest to that is CTV plus see what's the abbreviation for it? CF, check sync from stack, CSFS. CFSS. So that's the latest proposal right now to get these two because they are the least harmful or at least theoretically. But at the same time, I see a lot of people just being complacent and saying, yeah, Bitcoin is already ossified. There's nothing we can do about it. It's a store of value. I see Roger Verr promoting Bitcoin on private blockchains like Zano. I saw him getting on interviews talking about that. And that one seems more realistic practically. I mean, you can do that. You can tokenize BTC on other blockchains and use it with the primitives of those other blockchains, but with different trust assumptions and security trade-offs. And I wish it was unbidcoin, but I don't know why it takes so long to just agree on something. At this point, I'm happy with any proposal being adopted just to build more stuff and bring more users. It's very interesting. So Choshi may have launched the revolution, but it might not be the revolution that he wanted. Things don't just turn out the way you have planned, even when you have such great plans as he or they had. Victoria Jones, what do you think about Bitcoin? Tell me something positive about Bitcoin for the future. I know it's going to be hard. Well, I mean, I definitely believe in Bitcoin's underlying infrastructure. I mean, it's still the most powerful cryptocurrency. Yes, there are lots of competitors, but I think that's just symptomatic of Bitcoin's stage of development. There are a lot of people who are still woefully unaware of exactly what's going on with the financial system, how much danger they're in. There are some people who still don't even understand inflation. The people who understand Bitcoin properly is tiny compared to the rest of the population. And until it becomes easy, on a universal basis to transact with, until you get to the stage where businesses want Bitcoin and nothing else, I think it's going to be a struggle. And I think at the moment, that's a good thing because there are still a lot of details to be ironed out, a lot of ways in which you want to make it easier to transact with. Obviously, we had great hopes for the Lightning Network, it's still in development. I know there are a number of people who are still heavily working on that, but it takes time to build these things. Rome was not built in a day. And I think everyone's doing the best they can to get this as far as possible. And although everything that's going on in the US with the senators and everything feels like big news, ultimately it's in some ways a distraction, but in other ways it's good, because at least it's making people aware of the technology and hopefully getting them to look into it in a bit more depth. I think long-term Bitcoin will be fine. I think this is just all part of the show as we get to where we want to go. And I love every minute of it, I think it's a great show. Oh, remember the best things about Bitcoin is that it's shiny and it's gold. Let's move on to the next issue. Check out worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got 4,212 videos. It seems like most of them are shorts with my face on them, but you can check them out at worldcryptonetwork.com. Hopefully this week we'll be able to make some new shorts without my face on them. Moving on to issue three, fake FBI agent, Dreser X, new Sermerina woman to deposit $20,000 in Bitcoin ATM machine. We've covered this kind of story all the time, but it is getting bigger and bigger. This story was picked up by the USA today, one of the largest newspapers in the United States and just shows how widespread this process has become. Ben Arck, what do you think? For years we've talked about Bitcoin ATMs as a great way to get people started on some SATs, originally even you could get no KYC SATs at an ATM. Now it seems they're mainly used for scams. What do you think about the general public learning about Bitcoin as that thing that somebody stuck all of our money in the machine and sent it away? I guess when these stories come out people learn a little bit more about some of these social engineering attacks and it's quite sophisticated. Attack, read the article. I felt so sorry for the poor old day. I just lost a husband. Very sad scams, there's scumbags. Some of them are desperate scumbags, I'm not sure if that excuses it, but it's part of the problem with the celebration of greed and just accumulation and lack of moral fiber. Maybe a modern site, I don't know, maybe there's always been scumbags. Very sad, I felt sorry for it. People use these ATM's for legitimate things, but every time one of these articles comes out it's a good thing because people read it and they're a little bit more aware of the social engineering attacks which are out there and you might not be able to try and get your money from you. Hopefully some other old day will be being the same circumstance by reading the article. It does seem like they always seem to attack the weakest people and as we've seen it's almost an international game now, much like video games when you go on the internet to play someone in a video game, you end up playing someone so much better than you in the same way. These people who have just suffered tragedy, just received money, they're on the radar for some reason. They don't have internationally strong defenses to fight off the best scammers it seems in the world. Vlad Koster, what do you think about the Bitcoin ATM scamming issue? A couple of years ago I was in Switzerland and I saw something similar. I think it was called Mezonde Satochi, which means house of Satoshi. There was this old woman who went inside and had this non-KyC ATM. I think it was non-KyC below 1000 Swiss francs or something. She entered and asked how to use the ATM and the owner of the place, explained everything to her and asked her what you want to do. She said, oh, I got this ransomware on my computer and if I want to unlock it, I have to pay this amount to this account, this address. To my surprise, the owner of the place was like, okay, just have fun. This is how you use it. Go ahead. I'm not going to stop you. I'm not going to tell you how to remove ransomware from your computer. It was sad to see and I didn't know how to help because I don't speak French very well. But yeah, it happens and unfortunately, I think it's not that it targets the most vulnerable people. I think it targets a lot of people, but it's these people who are technically not very good and they don't know how to remove malware from their computers. They fall for it and they realize they don't have any other choice or at least so they think and they go to the nearest ATM and they send money and it's unfortunate. I don't know if there's, if it wasn't what Bitcoin, they would just send some suitcase with cash. So this is just a bit more convenient for scammers. It's interesting with a ransomware. Sometimes they do actually unlock the digital locker and give the people back their files. I would assume they would just rip everyone off and run with the money so you don't get anything from paying either, but sometimes they do unlock it. So maybe it was worth it for her to pay. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the Bitcoin ATMs and their potential use for scams? Yeah, it is a real shame. I mean, a few years before Bitcoin was even invented, I was a victim of someone attempting a similar scam with the software coming up on my computer and they wanted me to download software which, you know, fortunately because I'd used the same software in my own business. I knew exactly what they were doing. So the moment they told me to do it, I was like, hang on a minute and they just sounded dodgy on the phone. But again, if I hadn't had that experience and I didn't understand how that software worked, I would have been taken in by it because especially in that moment, you know, it's a real panic and, you know, a lot of us rely on our computers these days. So to suddenly have something like that come up and of course, that's what they're exploiting. It's that moment of panic. And then of course, you know, after that, they're not thinking. I think it's a real shame though that, you know, she should turn up, you know, the the story just shared a moment ago where someone turned up at a place and the owner of the ATM machine didn't step in. I mean, obviously we've got a friend we talked about last time I was on the show who did that all the time, you know, the number of people who came in and were feeding the Bitcoin ATM notes as a result of, you know, having one scam or another, you know, it's just really sad that it's possible and that people for it. But, you know, as I just said, these scams were around a number of years before Bitcoin. And if it wasn't Bitcoin, it would be something else. They've just got a new tool in order to exploit it. But unfortunately, stories do give a bad name because people, you know, hear these stories and Bitcoin is all they stick with. I mean, there's a very famous series on Disney Plus called Grey's Anatomy. And even in there, they rated a whole episode around someone hijacking the hospital's computer system because someone wanted ransom in Bitcoin and they ended up solving the situation by just giving them the Bitcoin. So even the media doesn't help because it just demonstrates that that's the quickest way to sort it out because for a hospital, they had the money, but people were dying. So they just needed the quick solution. So it's unfortunate, but, you know, scammers are always going to, they've been here for a long time, they're always going to be here. And we just have to get more sophisticated at spotting them and trying to fight back. It really does show the power of social engineering as well. As you see from the example here, they keep the lady on the phone the whole time. So she's driving to the convenience store. She's using the machine. All of this, it's almost as if she's in contact with her business agent and you wouldn't want to interrupt her. You wouldn't want to mess her up. And they're also giving her the confidence where she may lack it normally to put $20,000 into a machine. I don't think anybody has ever handled that much money, let alone put it in a machine where it sends it away. But if you got somebody there on the line saying, send the money, you know, we're going to get your husband out of jail. We're going to fix your tax problem. We're going to unlock your computer, whatever it is. It's the same thing. It's finally, let's go to James. Sorry, I also want to add that scamming has become more sophisticated these days, especially with AI. A couple of months ago, there was someone who got the phone number of my dad and he knew my name and he called my dad and said, you know, your son just had a terrible accident. And he was put in a helicopter to be taken to a hospital and do surgery. And it's an emergency. And you need to send money right now for the surgery and blah, blah, blah. And he was very convincing and very aggressive and wanted to emphasize that it's an urgent issue. And all he had to do was just call me and I was like, hi, what happened? But the point is that now with AI, they can even emulate voices. And especially people like us were exposed on the internet and their recordings of us. They can make us say anything and just make a phone call from some SIM card that they just bought and they're going to dump on a burner phone and tell that, I don't know, make up some story and ask for money and they can perpetuate the scam. And it's a bit scary. That's a good shot. Flatter, we should probably make all make all of our families a little bit more aware of that. I'm really sorry about that one. But yeah, good point. It's also clear that AI is making the scripts better. Originally, these people might not be good at speaking or might not be good at scamming. You could just ask the AI, how can I write a speech to scam someone? How can you make it more emotional? Things like this. Jameson, what do you think about the ATMs? And potentially, they're only used for scams or mainly used for scams, it seems? Yeah, I mean, look Bitcoin changes incentives in a number of different ways. It's not just about the financial and monetary system, but it's actually, it has allowed a number of attacks that have always been possible to be much more monetizable. So I remember 20 years ago when I was just starting out building software as a surface platforms, we had cybersecurity issues that we had to deal with. We had all types of attacks, many similar attacks of what you see today. But back then, if you're running some big software as a service company, it's hard to monetize an attack. Really, what they would have to hope for is they would have to hope for getting into your database and finding some valuable, like personally identifiable information that then they could go sell on some black market somewhere. And then, of course, there's always the questions of how would they actually sell that? They would probably do it for things like gift cards or other digital items that were available back then. And now these days, you can perpetrate similar types of attacks, at least to get ingress into a system and take it over. But because now we have this new highly liquid bearer asset that is native internet money, you can just ask for that instead. Instead of having to jump through all of these other hoops of trying to take some other valuable asset and turn it into money. So that's what we're really seeing is a lot of the attacks and the attack vectors are similar in nature. But what they're going after instead is the direct monetary value. So instead of hacking into large institution networks and trying to steal stuff, they'll hack into these hospitals and other large systems and just lock everything up and say, we know that this is valuable to you. It wouldn't be very valuable to us. But we can come to some sort of agreements and get you back online. It is amazing how Bitcoin has removed the friction from this system. I could talk about James and they used to have these same viruses on DOS. And it would say, get a cashier's check, mail it to this address. It had a lot more instructions. Now it's just send your Bitcoin to this, you know, big long string of numbers and letters. So it's gotten a lot easier and it's drawn a lot more people to the game as we've seen from all those YouTube videos where they keep busting all the scammers. They've got factories of these people working on this. It's a job for some people. And again, they're always hitting the old, the poor, the weak, the lack of information people. But let's keep moving. We're running out of time and it's kind of ties into our last topic where Jameson was saying, how are they going to cash out that money? How are they going to cash out that value? It turns out issue four, North Koreans cash out hundreds of millions from the $1.5 billion buy-bit hack. Originally, they had Ethereum. It sounds like they may have used something called Thor chain to convert the Ethereum to Bitcoin. And it seems like North Korea has been come incredibly successful and is now sitting on the proceeds from the buy-bit hack. Ben Arck, what do you think about the buy-bit hack and the way in which the hackers were able to successfully it seems allegedly laundering their money? Yeah, I mean, the North Korea is one of the biggest industries now. It's just these hacking farms of guys, very competent people. Hundreds of them just hacking everything. And the Bitcoin industry is right for it. I remember years ago when we made a fair draft, we first started working on bits and we were actually talking about how it's kind of an issue that generally freeing up a source projects, which has a lot of good will within the community, weren't hacked. So we weren't hardened because we weren't being hacked enough. I don't remember, we were kind of complaining about it that no one actually tries to hack the software. And then it was about a month ago, things have changed so radically. So about a month ago, I set up like a little Phoenix D node, put about 50,000 sites on it. I did a little shell video for Noster. And there was like a fraction of a second where I leaked the key for the Phoenix D, but it was kind of like a blurry video. So I watched the video and I thought, ah, fuck it, it'll be all right. So only 50,000 sites is not going to happen, fuck it, whatever. And then it was literally 20 minutes. The Phoenix D was drained. So there's people just, they're just watching, they're just ready for it. As soon as you launch one of these videos, it's the over the shoulder attack. And of course now, you know, we've, we've plugged that attack vector by hiding the credential now. So I guess that me, Fiat Jaf ultimately had our wish fulfilled that we've now got these state-sponsored North Korean hackers watching our every movement waiting to pounce on us and steal our money. And I suppose ultimately as well, it makes all of our software and all of our projects that are a little bit more hard and the fact that we've got this state-sponsored hacking, attacking us in more sources, sophisticated ways. But it's really quite remarkable. You know, you could, you could time it. I could, I could, maybe I should do it as just an experiment, like post up a video and and and leak something and and just see how quick, because it was, it was 20 minutes and the, the node was drained. I lost my, whatever it is, 50 quid. Alas. Well, it just shows all the old days where you'd program something and put a temporary credential in there. Those days are over. If you ever put a temporary password or an easy password, you're basically giving the money away. Vlad Costa, what do you think about the North Korean hackers and their incredible success at laundering the funds? On popular opinion, I guess, maybe not in this panel, but if you post this on Twitter, you're going to get burned. I sort of respect the torching people for not rolling back the transactions and saying, you know, it's the nature of the game, it's permissionless, it's technology and we're not supposed to intervene here, even though it's politically nice and we would be helping some people that we know against some other people that dislike they, they decided to not intervene. That's balsy, I guess, especially in this environment that has become more regulated and more coercive to everything that is trying to be truly permissionless and decentralized. I'm not saying that torching is like the epitome of decentralization. They have their own flaws, but I sort of respect them for this. I'm not happy with the outcome. The fact that North Korea has a lot of Bitcoin right now, but I don't know. It's just tools that people have used. The people from Bybit, when they lost their Bitcoin, if I understand correctly, they use ledgers for signing and the screens are very tiny. So they were not able to verify everything that they're signing. It was sort of a blind signing session that they did from their wallets and that's how the Ethereum was sent to the wrong address or it wasn't even an address. It was some sort of sophisticated contract that was injected in that transaction. So it's interesting how displayed out, I guess, Jameson is much better, much more versed in this and can understand what happened. What's North Korea going to do with the Bitcoin now? I don't know. Maybe put it on some joint market. Sessions or mix it with one of these third-party wasabi wallet coordinators. It's going to be interesting to see what's going to happen. How is North Korea going to use this Bitcoin going forward? I have no idea. It's going to be interesting to observe. It seems obvious that there's no more capital gains tax for North Korea. No more tax on tips. They're going to build roads. Everything's going to be great for their society. They're going to live in citadel. I do agree with you, Vlad. It is neat that Thor chain didn't reverse the transactions. While I doubt that the hackers put all their funds in at once, it would have been very exciting for them to suddenly freeze the hackers coins and for them to be caught by using too small of a chain to launder their funds. Not a technical problem, a political temporary problem, but the funds did go through so that didn't happen. The North Korean strategic Bitcoin reserve. They built theirs their way. We built ours by robbing from criminals. Victoria, John, what do you think about the Bybit hack and their apparent ease at transferring the funds? Well, I come back to the mantra. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger? I mean, again, I think it's a reflection of the stage rat in Bitcoin's development. And of course, every time something like this happens, it's a call to the community to figure out how to stop it. I mean, obviously a form of decentralized money is different to centralized money where governments can step in and prevent this. And with the decentralized network, we just need to invent new ways of stopping it. And human beings are inherently creative and I'm sure they're going to come up with something. So North Korea needs to make the most of it because these opportunities are not going to be around for long. It's especially interesting because I think in any other environment, you'd say this amount of funds is too large to launder. They're going to see you moving the hundred million, whether you move it through tide pods or blockbuster gift cards or Walmart cards or whatever it is. They're going to see it. But with Bitcoin, we've been able to get over that and Thor chain and Ethereum. So it's really a while it is kind of a negative invention. It's a triumph of a negative invention. This is an incredibly smooth transaction from afar. Jameson Lopp, what do you think about the success of the North Korean hackers in laundering their money? Yeah, I mean, the actual hack was the results of about half a dozen things that went wrong and compounded on top of each other. It was really an EVM specific thing. They basically replaced the entire wallet code, which was this JavaScript web app and had it issue, I believe, a delegate call command, which basically said give full control of this wallet to this other wallet. And the other wallet, of course, was owned by Lazarus Group. Now, I think there's some interesting points to be made here. One point that I will claim is that I don't think that it is feasible for any truly decentralized permissionless network to do rollbacks or changes to try to stop a hacker theft anymore. And the main reason for that is because of how interconnected the entire ecosystem has become. And part of that is Thor chain itself is one of those bridges. Basically, my point being like if you steal funds on one chain and all you can do is move it around on that chain, then it's somewhat likely for people to try to coordinate against you and try to block you. But once you start moving to other chains, it just becomes exponentially more difficult to coordinate all of those different interested parties and entities that are running all of those networks. So that's why Lazarus starts peeling that money off to as many different networks as possible because it really turns into a game of whack-a-mull. And I'm in some groups that are sort of voluntary alliance of trying to stop stolen funds. And I've been watching them like even to this day, there's still just reams and reams of addresses being posted by people saying this is related to Bybit because they just keep moving it more and more and more and more. Another interesting point is that a couple of days ago, the founder of a Russian crypto exchange that has facilitated a lot of the North Korean money laundering, I believe called Garantex, he was arrested while vacationing in India. So apparently that was a poor planned vacation for him. It showed a state in Russia, but it just showed that there is coordinated effort at many different levels to try to stem the flow. But ultimately, I think you're only going to be able to stop some of it just because there's so many different both centralized exchanges that operate outside of western jurisdictions and decentralized exchanges that are built to be unstoppable. It's also worth noting recently Russia traded a teacher who has caught smoking weed for the leader of BTC-E. So there is major gangsters out there like he's been saying, and if they're out vacationing, maybe look at traded back one day in another prisoner exchange, the market has become that size that nation states are taking interest in this. I don't think it's the last that we'll talk about this, but let's move on. We've got one more issue. It's tied together here. Issue five, President Trump's family is in talks to acquire a stake in Binance after the crypto exchange is guilty plea. Meanwhile, we've also got an update on the Libra coin story. Remember, a coin was launched allegedly backed by the Argentinian President, but it turned out that perhaps this gentleman, Hayden Davis, is holding all of the money he went on coffee, Zilla, made a couple of interview points, but now he's been added to the red notice list, and there's an international capture and detention warrant for Hayden Davis from the Libra coin Argentinian story. So kind of a grab bag you talk about the President and the Exchange, or the Libra story of Vlad, what do you think about the President, maybe buying part of Binance, and the Libra coin developer hacker, whatever you want to call him on the run? Well, I don't think it's the President himself. It's probably Eric or Donald Jr. or one of his other sons being interested in this. I don't think about it at all. I do understand it might be some sort of deal to maybe get a pardon for CZ, who was the CEO and founder of Binance. It's dirty. I think so. I've heard this from Reusev. He used to be the co-founder of Paxful. Now, he has another P2P exchange that's called No-ones, and he has this theory that basically CZ was trying to build the ultimate network state, and he got cut down by the U.S. government. And the biggest issue with him basically was that he sort of imploded FTX when he made that call about the token, the FTT token, and said that he's selling most of it. And there was a lot of pain that was caused just by that one tweet, and it was around the time that he was investigated and put in jail for a year or so. I don't know. There's so much to this story, and there's so much that I don't know, and I don't want to make any statements that might be wrong. It's just that Binance is a big business, and as far as I know, Binance is the bank of many citizens from South America and Asia, and also Africa. A lot of what we call global South is using Binance, and they're transferring mostly USDT, and they're buying the Binance token because they want to get discounts on the transaction fees. So it's sort of a big deal, but I've never used it. It's funny. I've never used Binance. I never had an account. I think you bring up a really good point, Vlad, that CZ can't join the Good Old Boys Club if he's going to be destroying one of the other good old boys, and not to say that Sandbank been freed or FTX was really in the network, but you got to figure they're holding on to some of the networks money. A lot of people lost money in that. We're always trying to tie it down. It doesn't seem to be any of our Bitcoin friends, but obviously someone invested in FTX, someone bought those tokens. And as far as the rest of the strategy, we have seen recent success by Justin Sun, paying $45 million and getting himself a pardon. So maybe there's a path there of CZ sells part of his company. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the Trump family, perhaps buying into Binance, and of course the ongoing Libra coin story? Yeah, I can't say I'm surprised really. Especially if the US is going to buy a million Bitcoin, why not buy into the exchange where some of those purchases are going to be taking place? Interesting moves. I don't think there's a lot we can achieve by worrying about it. I think Trump now has a lot of power as a result of being the US president. And so him and his family are going to do what they're going to do. I think these things play out the way they're meant to in the end. And ultimately, regardless of the exchanges, Bitcoin is independent of all of that. And so yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. It is certainly a great negotiating position to be in. That's a nice business you got there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to it, any kind of regulation or anything like that. You know, we own this government here right now. Oh, it's a great time to buy. Although it's Binance US, not Binance.com. So it's a bit different. You got to start somewhere. You got to start somewhere. James and Lawport, you think about the possible president buying and the ongoing Librecoin story, which is interesting because it's not Facebook Librecoin. Yeah, I mean, it's not that interesting. You know, Binance US is a pretty small exchange relatively. It's probably one of the smaller US exchanges. So whether or not it's politically motivated, who knows, but Trump owns a lot of things. So whatever. What I think is more interesting is the Hayden Davis thing. And mainly because this is a recurring theme that I just find quite amusing, which is when these guys go and do some sort of really scammy pump and dump or market manipulation or other type of activity that's it's not like a direct hack or theft, but it is pretty shady. And then they go on and they do all these interviews and they basically incriminate themselves on these interviews. I mean, SBF did it. One of the market manipulator guys who's in prison now did it. He said, you know, his argument was, oh, I was just following the rules of the contract, which he kind of was, but apparently there are market manipulation laws that still apply there. So I think it's interesting because I mean, we are on the cutting edge of finance. And so you've got a lot of these like really young guys who probably don't know much about financial law and they're investigating these new systems and trying to figure out, how do I make a bunch of money? And so from their perspective, they're like, oh, I'm just following the rules of these systems and, you know, naively, I think in many cases, just completely breaking a ton of different laws. And then, you know, you could say, you know, maybe it wasn't their fault and they didn't know any better, but then they're just not smart enough to shut up. And you know, they go and basically publicize everything that they were doing and essentially incriminate themselves. It was amazing on coffee zilla. The guy seemed a surprise that he ended up with the money. Then he seemed like he didn't know what to do with it. He offered some of it to coffee zilla, even saying he could hold one of the keys. I don't know what that would help. Obviously, coffee's not going to steal it, but they're just transferred to a new account. Didn't make any sense to me. But yeah, it's very interesting to see that, you know, in our world, he's just violated a few computer systems, pushed a few buttons, ended up with some money, done a little fake hype, you know, social engineering. Doesn't seem that bad. But like James is saying, if you transfer over to the legal world, it's like conspiracy, fraud, all of these existing laws, which still exist in the digital world. So I doubt that they would stop these people from doing it beforehand, but it certainly ends up bad afterwards. Ben, Ark, what do you think about possibly the president buying some of Binance US and the Libre coin hacker? Yeah, it's the pump fund crew touching real world law, which we talked about actually in this show, whenever it happened, that not that we're supporting the average arm of state, of course, but stories like that will probably deter other bros from going that route, which might not necessarily be a bad thing. But it's kind of normalized behavior, sadly, in our world or not in our world, but you know, particularly in the kind of shit coin world, that if you can make a buck, then you make a buck no matter what. And then I suppose it's up to society to kind of decide upon, I mean, they're already pre-existing laws, which you can apply to the cryptocurrency world, but then for wider society to say, well, this is a moral, you know, and you shouldn't do this thing, it should be frowned upon. And then on the Trump thing, I mean, I suppose that they're buying the subaids, ultimately it's skin in the game, which is a necessarily a bad thing. I would say we've made it, you know, who would have thought a few years ago that we got like a couple of shit coin of presidents, one of them's the leader of the free world, with Emma, like the world has changed, it did change in all the ways we didn't think it would, but it has changed. And part of the problem with the ecosystem in which we live in, it's, it's a problem, I don't know, some new reality, which we're all going to have to get used to, all the wider world's going to have to get used to, is it's just so easy to manipulate the price and pump anything up and down, particularly if you've got a large stage, are you a president or a political leader, then you can really impact price. And that's what I think we've seen with some of the Trump staff and then this Argentinian guy, and yeah, we're there just like you Thomas mentioning Ask Coin before, it's 10 extents then, so I feel my back, thanks. We should have gotten in, we all should have got in on the Ask Coin. Well, we're running out of time, but let's go to predictions or story of the week, Victoria Jones, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Yeah, my story of the week, I'm still doing quite a lot of work behind the scenes, working up to a big relaunch of my website. For the time being, the old one is still available, and my most recent letter is Bitcoin and the welfare state, which is on my website, Satoshi'sPage.com. So go there, check it out. Just talking about, you know, how, what a disaster the UK government's finances are, so anyone who's interested in that might find it interesting. Very cool, and they can check that out at Satoshi'sPage.com. Jameson Lock, do you have a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. A couple neat tidbits. One, Jack Dorsey got locked out of his own ex account yesterday, or two days ago, and he posted about that on Monster. And then also we got much more in-depth detail in actual video of the home invasion of Amaranth and I think Houston, Texas, which was interesting because, well, I mean, she's a well-known streamer, but apparently, she had a ton of security cameras inside of her building, so you could actually see what happened when the home invasion went down. It was pretty crazy. It was a very dramatic video. I think she led them to a garage building where her husband was waiting with a gun and a boat professed. He shot one of the assailants in the restaurant away. It was a very dramatic story as I've read on Jameson's blog and so forth. She apparently waived $20 million on her phone in cryptocurrency at her audience, which seems like a bull flag to me, very horrifying that someone could have that much money on her phone and it really seems like she might have attracted that attention, but it's a good lesson for everyone, I think. Ben, are you prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. So yeah, sorry, the week. Obviously, Granny Hard on version 1L and bits we should be out next week. We've got a couple of paid extensions in the marketplace, which is nice for developers because it's historically people like developing on it because you have a nice large user base to share your great idea on in the marketplace. But now for the developer, they can charge some sats for it and the flow is really nice. You just say, I want to take the sats out of this wallet or you pay a QR code or something. But then in that process of making the paid extensions, I was thinking early this week about different ways. Now we have micro payments, so it's like if you think about traditional kind of wordpress model where you buy an extension from your developers, what your developers can now do is rather than charge up front, you can just take like a fraction of a percentage of a payment from the extension when people use the extension, so it could be like 0.5%. But it could be a nice wherever you drive for our sort of developer community. And it's just like it was that like the block, you know, the sort of scheme of it block of having a new tool just micro payments. And then looking at an old model, which would be selling plugins in a marketplace and then coming up with like a new idea for how you can monetize a plugin or something we should selling in a marketplace. So there's a pretty cool idea and I want to try and like work on sort of some examples of it and get some demos out there and then try and get some developers to chip in some some extensions. But I just, I mean, I think like, I mean, if like before you're talking about sort of lightning network and the lack of traction, but you know, you see a lot of good traction in us. And for me, I'm kind of the opinion, you know, you protocols and have a perfect. And then you just you tweak and you work as best as you can, but the tools you've got. And if you look at, you know, there's probably a million ways in which you could improve HTTP, but you can build all this shit on top of it. And I feel the same way we're lightning network is you just keep building and finding new use cases and applications are important. Like you can't just have like a, I mean, you know, it's cool to have a world of a billion different protocols, but then it's also cool to actually build things on the protocols too. So yeah, I thought that was an interesting idea, just the use case of micro payments in that scenario. All right, let's go to Vlad Costa for a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead, Vlad. I have a couple of stories. One is the shortest and the most selfish. I published an interview with Marty Malamy, who is the first assistant of Satoshi Nakamoto. And he made some very interesting points and he told some stories. For example, he said that he perceived Satoshi to be a 40 year old man and probably not Japanese. And also probably not CIA slash NSA because he was struggling to configure WordPress, which is funny. Anyway, check that out. Peter Todd. Peter Todd. Sure. The other story is that NIM launched their VPN yesterday. And I watched their launch event and it's been coming for like four years or five years now. It for those who don't know it's a mix net, which means it's this sort of like a coin joint, but for your internet traffic, it's trying to improve on what tour does today. But tour has some known vulnerabilities and issues that can be exploited. Mix nets are also randomized and they also break down the data packets in bits of equal sizes. And they also do some time delays. And I been testing that on my phone for the last couple of days. And it made my internet very slow. But yeah, for me, it's exciting. I think it's the kind of technology that we should have had many years ago. And they finally figured out a way for this to work. For those who want to test it, I posted. So they also use this mnemonic seed phrase standard for accounts. They don't have anything where you have like a account password or email, just like MOLVAD generates some sort of random number that becomes your account. And NIM, they have 24 words that become your account. So I posted that seed phrase on my Twitter account. If you want to test it for free, because you don't want to pay $12 per month or something, you can do that. It works on up to 10 devices. I use it only on two of them. So I guess eight are available. So give it a try. For me, it's exciting. I'm not sure if you care much about it. But yeah, NIM VPN. Sounds very cool, Vlad. I think we need more VPNs. And it was distributed, decentralized, all those things. I think it'd be very good. I don't have that much to say this week for a story of the week. I was going to cover briefly. I don't know if you guys got it. I got kind of a strange email from Coinbase. And maybe it's a spam or a fishing email. But it says that Coinbase is recently not allowed to hold crypto assets. And that they're going to ask everyone to move their funds into something they called Coinbase wallet. And that this would be a self-hosted thing. And I don't know if this was a real email or not, but it really kind of freaked me out. They included the 24 words or the 12 words or whether in the email in the body. How convenient. Yeah. So I mean, I don't know if this is real or not. You guys can go look it up. We'll talk about it more next week if it's an issue. But just truly horrifying to me that they'd included the words in the body of the email. I was like, this is very non-standard. I don't know whose idea this was. This is very so hopefully that's a fishing email, not real Coinbase. But who knows? And the other story I had is I just want to talk about this movie that I like that no one else likes. It's called Mumford. It's from 1999. And I hadn't thought about it in years. The other day I started thinking, what was that movie with a guy? He pretends to be a fake psychiatrist. And he kind of goes to all these small town people and kind of fixes their lives. And it's just kind of it's sweet and it's short and it's not that fancy or anything. But look at this cast Jason Lee from my name is Earl Martin Short, the lady from Home Alone, Ted Danson, Zoe D. Chanel, David Paymer, tons more. Just a nice sweet fun movie. It's about 26 year old, 26 years old. I don't know where you're going to find it. But it's out there on the internet. Check out Mumford from 1999. It's just a fun nice movie. And that's about it for this show. Thanks to everybody for joining us. Be sure to give us a thumbs up down below. If you made it to the end of the show, go ahead and give us a wave, put a wave in the chat or in the comments and subscribe down below and check in next week when we'll be back again. And that's about it. So join us next week. Thanks for joining us this week. Until next time. Bye. Bye.