The Bitcoin Group. The American Original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Josh Tagala from thestandard.io. Well good day there, ladies and gentlemen. Ben Arck from LNBITS. Yeah, 100K. I was singing it. Yeah, why? And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Bitcoin. 100,000. So high it's off the chart. The price of Bitcoin climbing even during this show has broken. 100,000 dollars. That's up 1.8% in the last 24 hours with the last of 10180. A high of 101,900 and a low of 88,8,800. That's 1 dollar for 989 Satoshi's. The first time it has ever been below 1000 Satoshi's on this show. I feel like an old man, but I remember when it was 10,000 Satoshi's for a dollar. It seemed like a good deal. As it says here in the Associated Press, Bitcoin has surpassed the 100,000 mark alleging that it's the post election rally. The Bitcoin party is a psychological party as it breaks a milestone for long time crypto believers. That's right. The price is over 100K. Josh Tagala you've been with Bitcoin a long time, even longer than myself. What do you think about Bitcoin breaking the so-called psychological milestone of 100,000 dollars of coin? For a long time, there's always been this argument about calling, like, denominating in bits versus Satoshi's. That argument is starting to disappear because 1000 Sats for a dollar is getting close to human readable form, which is interesting. It's one of those things that we all knew it was coming. We don't know when. People had laser eyes to 100K. That's where the laser eyes came from for those that don't know on X. I really thought maybe it would be in like 20 years time or something because inflation takes a while to show its face like that extreme. You've got to think how much of this is real value versus how much of it is devaluing of the counter asset to get its real value. Bitcoin is in a space where it's in a price discovery phase still after 10, 12 years, where it has to, it's still trying to find humans are trying to figure out what's this thing worth. But, obviously, there's only 21 million. It's becoming popular governments and corporations and people using a store of value, especially when governments use it. I mean, there's talk of the US now building a fund. There's talk of Saudi Arabia building a fund. There's talk of a whole bunch of different. If those two do it, everyone else is going to do it. It's going to go insane. So, yeah, interesting times. Interesting times. Well, and that's really the reason not to do that fund. But I refuse to talk about it until they allegedly sign it into law. By agree, Josh, I don't think it's just inflation or we're getting the effects of inflation yet. I think it's mainly price discovery. People don't know what a Bitcoin's worth. More and more people are entering the market all the time. As you said, we're up to banks and countries, CEOs, feeling bad, entering Bitcoin, and they have huge wallets compared to cypherpunks and libertarians who had relatively no money at the beginning of this. So, it is amazing to see it go this far. Does it feel different than 1,000 or 10,000, which also seemed like they happened really fast? I think this one happened fast relatively. We went along there for a long time. We were in the 10 to 30,000 range. Then suddenly this year it just went 50, 80, 100. So that kind of feeling, like we're on, the run we're on right now, you could have joined us in the last six months and caught most of it. But again, it is that thing again, like people say, the reason that you have your money in the Bitcoin or a risky investment type market is for those one or two days where it goes up 20, 30%. You don't know where those days are going to be. If you were laying out of the market, if you were waiting for the perfect buy, or I know a lot of people said, it was going to go to 3K. Toned vase told us to hold audience to wait. They're still out there waiting. Whereas if you're dollar cost averaging, if you're investing at certain points, if you're accepting of the idea that you're not going to buy the perfect bottom, you're not going to sell the perfect top. You have reasonable expectations for your investment. You might catch a couple of those 10, 20 K days and then be able to celebrate on the other side. Ben Arck more on Bitcoin, 100 K. Yeah, good old Tony. He's always called it too low, didn't he? Oh, every cycle, every bare cycle, you'd always call it too low and then people would be waiting for the much lower price, just a bit of a shame. I just think that it's all price, price discovery and we've got a long way to go on, I mean, the actual price is probably like a million dollars of coin. If you think where, when we were $10,000 of coin, I would say that Bitcoin is a thousand times more accepted and embraced by the world than it was when it was $10,000 of coin. So yeah, million of coin. We could be a million of coin or 10 million of coin. It's a 10 million of coin. So the price we have now is very low, really. When the laser, I think, laserized thing happened in 2021, it's off the back of the Al Salvador news. That's just this tiny little country in Central America with not much money who started to embrace Bitcoin. Now we have big nation states with big superpowers, which is starting to talk about embrace in Bitcoin. And it's not just Trump as well. You have Putin, that Putin press release where, not press release, sorry, where he's been interviewed and they were talking about sanctions on the bricks, I think. And you mentioned Bitcoin and where he said it was, you know, who can stop Bitcoin, who can stop the Bitcoin from people using it for big commerce, for countries using it to transact between each other, whether the US can't stop it, no one can stop it. So it's not just the US, it's some error, it's the pressure, it's China, it's the, I want to start embracing Bitcoin. And as soon as the world's big superpower gets a Bitcoin reserve, others will follow suit and then they have skin in the game and they have a vested interest to make the thing more valuable. So, yeah, we're definitely, yeah, like a hundred times, thousand times, more legitimate and should have more value than we had did at 10,000 coins. So, yeah, I think the price got a long way to go. And that was clear skies, those are like synthetic ceiling, 100K, which humans had created, which we smashed through a couple of times and yeah, it's dipped under again, but booth with, it's just open clear skies above us. Yeah. So the price can jump up significantly. Yeah, but I would also suggest, I was going to say we had, you know, also adversaries like Gary Gensler, who will probably be gone. And yeah, so that only cleans the skies more. Yeah. And then all the other adversaries who have not been turned, who are all turning back on their original state, which I think we're going to talk about the market, humans, people like that, but pretty influential people who, you know, other investors listened to their advice and now they're all being switched and turned and seeing value in Bitcoin, whether or not they're just doing its kiss, I asked to try and buy that. But like, yeah, that's that's huge too. The barrier is for price, actual price discovery of all melting away. Yeah. I also think we need to talk about the way that Bitcoin is still like a monkeys paw, like the old horror story that I saw on the Simpsons, where let's say that we're right about Bitcoin. There's only 21 million. It's really useful. It's worth a lot now, but countries, governments, all the normal people still have to get into it. So there's tons of room for it to grow in both usage and in price and value. Therefore Bitcoin, you can really never sell it. If you ever have any and you sell it, you're going to feel bad about it because the price is going to go up and whatever you buy is not going to be equal, even if you buy a Porsche 911 turbo or whatever you're going to be out there depreciating value of your Porsche depreciating value of your houses as Bitcoin keeps going up in the same way. Anyone who's outside of the market now is saying that himself, I'm a no-coin or I'm always going to be a no-coin or the no-coin or tax goes up as well. The pressure on them for not buying the feelings that they're going to have if this really does go up forever. It's very interesting because there really is psychologically no good time to sell yet at the same time if you're up a thousand percent, if you're up ten thousand percent, you're looking this is a huge mountain and you can take out ten percent, change your life, pay off all your bills, buy a nice car, buy a nice house. Even though I do think in some ways it's going to go up more not financial advice, you should still take it out, you should still buy the nice stuff. But I want everyone to understand the psychological problem and that this is actually a problem, like this is the goose that lays golden eggs forever. If you ever sell part of the goose you get less eggs and we were talking about before the show, if you're walking around out there and you have your original stack of Bitcoin, you've never sold anything, you're eating top ramen and destroying your body and not exercising all these things. The thing will fall on you and you'll have your original stack and no fun. That goes this kind of mixture out there. Go ahead Ben. Yeah, I think of the way I think of it is because obviously you get a lot of newly enriched Bitcoiners out there and you have this kind of fear, I call it the fear escape velocity, where your fear out goings just regular life stuff, the interest of the asset of Bitcoin, the amount of money it's worth, is far outpacing your fear out goings. And then at that point you get tempted and you're like, I'm going to buy a house, I'm going to buy this, I'm going to buy that. Just be careful what you buy because every time you buy a big purchase, that hockey stick of the fear escape velocity just kind of drops down a little bit. And then before you know, maybe the price goes down a little bit, then you've got to use to a certain lifestyle, you're then burning into your stack and then when you have the next point, lots of people get burnt and they leave the fear escape velocity where they're not going to be, it's a great thing in life to not have to ever worry about money ever again. But I will say that you can almost tell like an OG Bitcoin because when you have these big price hike, big pumps, they look a little bit sad and miserable for all the stupid things they bought with a Bitcoin, they have a pair of socks at home which they bought from someone which is now worth like a million dollars. A million dollars for a pair of socks. You mentioned your about the dog. I remember once I paid a, I think it was a point three to enter a poker tournament and that's now what is it? Thirty thousand dollar poker tournament. And I don't think the price was that much. I don't think the top prize was near that. So there's a lot of things like that. A lot of stories out there where I think it was three hundred dollars of the poker tournament. But you're very right Thomas. If you just sit on the stuff and then get run over, then that also sucks. So there is definitely, it's a very interesting dynamic to have money which doesn't appreciate value. You don't have the sense of regret for spending it. It's not an unknown idea in legacy economic theory to talk about why deflation is bad. Because Bitcoin is like, yeah, deflation, we want deflation. And people will say, well, you don't want deflation because people don't spend their money then. And so it's a talking point forever as well. And it's like this, governments and banks, central banks have tried to like, no, what you want, where the sweet spot is is 3% inflation. That's the good spot. It makes you not want to huddle, but it makes you not want to spend too much and it keeps the economy growing because people feel like they're getting, you know, yeah, they people feel it is a big deal. It's a systemic problem, Josh. If everyone stops spending, then they stop producing commercial goods, then commercial goods go up and value. And then more people stop spending. So it is a very interesting thing where we do want people to save, but if they save too much, it shuts down all of the, let's say, luxury goods, anything that's not food and heat and cooling, things like that. And banks start learning as well for investment. That's the big part of it. That's a huge part. Absolutely. Yeah, that's right. I mean, if you look at the gold standard, for instance, you know, people always pine for the gold standard there, you know, so the gold bugs and stuff, but actually it had a very similar problem where when you peg gold to the fiat system, when you say one gold is always one dollar, it means there's no movement. And so what actually happened was that gold, people that were looking for new gold veins in the ground stopped looking because what's the point in trying to discover new gold? If it's never going to go up in value, it's always going to be one dollar. And yeah, you might find a bunch, and you can sell it for a dollar, but there's it's not enough to cover exploration, digging, refinement, all the rest of it. And so, so yeah, there is the argument that actually this is what why the gold standard failed in the beginning is because people stopped looking, which made the gold that was already there above ground more and more valuable, but it was pegged artificially by the fiat of government to fiat. And eventually that just fractured because the market started selling it because they're in this way more valuable. So then there's this arbitrage between the black market, so to speak, of gold price, the real value compared to the fiat value, which is being deployed by fiat. And so it's it's interesting. It's a very interesting. We've just got a new whole equation. I mean, of course, with gold as well, it got harder to mine over time as well. So the cost of mining the stuff, I suppose you would just be able to point, because I'm going to find less of the stuff and it's going to cost me more money than the stuff's actually worth. But we've just we've had, I know we kind of heartbacked to a time when we didn't have like a fiat standard and with central banks controlling currency and inflation and things, but that's the world we know. So it's it's it's it's pretty radical change if we do switch to kind of a deflation world. And then there is the argument like what is ideal deflation? Is it there's only 21 million coins because that kind of feels quite, you know, just arbitrary number plucked out this guy. But of course, yeah, it's it's I mean, there's probably within the tool set of Bitcoin, there's ways of creating new value like I know some shit coin thing or something or something, which you could use for investment to get around the issue of because you can have stuff which is you know, airdrops or something which is pegged to Bitcoin or something. Well, as a way of creating new values on PINs the system so you can still have investment by banks and companies. Yeah, I mean, this is what it's not it's not the same, but it's on the same vein is what we're building at the standard IO is the fact that you can lock up Bitcoin and then borrow a new currency for 0% interest from your own holdings. And now you can go and buy that car, buy whatever because you're not actually selling your Bitcoin, you've taken a loan out from yourself. Yeah, it is in a new token. But and that token has intrinsic value of the Bitcoin because it takes that token to get your Bitcoin back out because you know, you can't touch the Bitcoin, you can, you know, I mean, on the standard, you can trade it and you can earn a yield and all the rest of it. Like a bond and it's not supposed almost. Yeah, exactly. But from yourself, you're not having a central bank, you're holding your private key. And so these are the mechanics. But even people are trying to say that that's re-hypothicating or creating new Bitcoin, I think that's just making it smaller into smaller units and just cutting it down. If you issued like a thousand share for your Bitcoin, yeah, they're smaller, but it still represents the same Bitcoin. I think Ben had a big point here when he talked about going over into this new world and this deflationary world. We've talked about some of the positive things like maybe trying to fix some of the stuff that's around instead of throwing it out, maybe designing things to last longer as people become deflationary buyers where they're looking for that quality, long lasting product rather than that cheap, flashy finance like the fast fashion, the clothes that are only designed for a year and then they throw them out. But it is a big change. Be critical all you want about the Fiat system. When we have a problem in the Fiat system, we know what to do. We print money and we try to solve the problem. Natural disaster, print a bunch of money through the product, throw it at it, the COVID situation, people are out of work, print a bunch of money, throw it at them, like good or bad, whatever, at least it's a solution in the deflationary world, the government or whoever you want to say is in charge, won't have the ability to make new Bitcoin. They won't have the ability in a crisis to do this. And when they have the fundraiser, and I've said this before, I like saying it, Bruce Springsteen is out there singing for Hurricane Katrina relief. The money they raise is the money that will be given to those people. There won't be a government printing of money. Now maybe the government can re-hypothicate some and they can have a spin off or something like that, but it is a radically different world. And I've posited it here with Bitcoin as a liberal person or whatever, it's not really a choice. The fact that Bitcoin exists, the fact that the network is so strong, the fact that the data can be sent over any existing firewall or control mechanism means that the logical thing to do is to try to adjust to the new Bitcoin world, not to be all protectionist and say we should stay in the fiat world, we should fight the Bitcoin, we should stop it, whatever that is. That seems like a failed tactic, whereas rolling with it, moving with it, changing, trying maybe to have some kind of a mixture of fiat and hard money is the way to go. Josh, do you have more on this? No, that's exactly right. But I see Bitcoin as hard money and being able to use that as a collateral for a soft money, so to speak, because it's... I always say it like Bitcoin is the money and what the standard allows you to do is print currency. So it's not money. The money is locked up backing the currency. And we don't need a central bank because people all around the world can do it individually, so it becomes decentralized. Now, it's arguable that the arbitragem and Ethereum networks aren't as decentralized as Bitcoin, for sure, we can have that conversation. But it was the technology that was available to me to build on that network. Similar to when you created the first NFTs, Thomas, it wasn't... You didn't... The technology wasn't there on Bitcoin, so you did it on Ethereum. And unfortunately, the infrastructure that we needed wasn't available on the Bitcoin network. So I've had to do it on... That's a very good point, though, because if you look at the current economic order, the sort of unpaid Kenzin fear stuff, it was the tools they had at that time, whereas now, when we have something like Bitcoin, which can exist outside of the control of central bank, and we have this new amazing tool of public key crypto and the stuff, you know, the R&D, which you're doing, Josh, on the standard, or you can create bonds, you can create these other sort of financial assets. Like, maybe it's possible to have both, you know, maybe it's not a case of like, it's one or the other, maybe you can still have a world of investment and people developing new things. But then you can also still have like, you know, this deflationary backbone, which powers the whole economy, the tools are radically different to what they were, what, you know, 100 years ago, when the... Just 100 years ago, when the fear stuff was unpacked fear, was created. So... Yeah, the tools are radically different, but the concept of supply and demand, like, it all boils down to that supply and demand. It's such a beautiful, tiny, short equation. It's just such a beautiful equation, and it's similar to E equals MC squared. That equation boils down. It's such a small, beautiful equation and explains so much. And that's... I feel that simplicity is when you get close to truth, when something is simple and E equals MC squared as complex as that is, it's actually quite a basic equation. And I think supply and demand, that equation is also beautiful. And so we might have radical and new tools, but that equation still stands true. Yeah, that's the Austrian proxilological stuff, isn't it? It's just really simplified. Take things down to very simple rules and then work from there. If you've only got truths, which I think there's some value in there. Yeah. The interesting thing about the Fiat world is to keep the GDP growing. You have to spend and we have to spend more to grow more. And if we're not growing, not only is like, say, my startup dead, but the whole country's dead, right? If you have a country like Great Britain, they don't have enough growth, they don't have a tech sector, they don't have Hollywood, they need a reason for that number to go up. But if you look at environmentalism, the idea that there's a limited number of things on the earth, everything we do affects every other thing, you actually don't want endless growth. Endless growth is the worst thing for environmentalism. So Bitcoin does shift us, maybe into environmental mindset, but it's also this kind of environmentalism of loss. Things like chocolate going up in price, bananas going up in price, things that were previously abundant, becoming scarce, as the real cost of them becomes apparent when you start charging people for the externalities. If you make the stereo for 1999, but you poison the river and kill thousands of people, we have to punish you. You can't have a $20 stereo anymore. There's been going to be interesting. There's been a lot of talk about that inside the environmentalist scene, actually, even from like Extinction Rebellion, that markets themselves and governments utterly fail at curbing the impact that humans are having on the planet. And it's actually the, our only real hope is kind of a technological change, you know, that you're going to have an ideological change. And more and more that of them have been turned on to Bitcoin quite remarkably. It was actually quite stunned by it, to be honest. But yeah, there's a whole bunch of them who see the value in Bitcoin for it's obviously for its renewable mining stuff, but then predominantly that, you know, like if we are going to use more newables than having this torch that incentivizes that, it's very good. But then also for sort of changing how people's relationship with products and consumerism. But even though, we've all been brought up in this hyper consumer, the world is clearly not sustainable. And we're going to have to have a better relationship with money. And countries get drunk, and it, like you say, and they've got to keep growing that economy. But often the growth of that economy involves in debting future generations, you know, little children, your kids are walking around and they will, about knowing that you're little six year olds got a 70 grand debt on them basically whatever for the money which one day the country's going to have to try and find a repay. There we are. And if we really do accept that, that we are producing debt for the children of the world, the only solution is one you're not going to like. It's that complete or well-earn solution that people are afraid about and they may be joking about where you breathe out and it charges you, you know, 10 micro-sotoshies and you breathe in and this and you do that and you breathe out because you are the effect that you're having and that everyone now has to pay. And that kind of thing could happen really quick. Can you just fix the car? I'm just going to load a bull. We're all getting knocked out anyway. The birth rate is way too low in most most successful countries. That's true. The best way to actually deal with environment is to be more, is to grow the middle class because the middle class then doesn't destroy the environment as much because they want nice environment. They just don't know. If you go to poorer countries, the environment's crap. You're seeing that more China. I can't like what it's cleaner. It won't cleaner. But not actually, rather than paying for breathing, Thomas, Josh, you saw in your show, what does it make? You're going to have to fix it. It's done just going to have to fix it. The world's problem is right. So there's a question in the chat. They're saying there's a problem with limited supply. If someone hoards all of the Bitcoin, say someone like micro strategy, do you guys think that's going to affect us? Is that going to have a negative effect? There's even if there's one Bitcoin left, there is enough sats for everybody. It's not a major problem. The problem comes with if one person controls a vast amount, they can control the price by dumping. That's the harsh part. But technically speaking, the whole world can run on one Bitcoin because we can actually fork Bitcoin to create more sats at which people would do more than eight decimal points. We have an enlarging stuff. Josh is talking about we can have regulations for at the marketplace, where you say, oh, you're selling more than 10,000 of this or you're crashing the market regularly. We can adjust that as far as micro strategy having a large fortune, it's a similar problem to other entrenched large fortunes around the world. I think that they chip away with them with taxes. I think they're pretty ineffective at controlling large wealth or understanding the effects of large wealth on the world. So micro strategy might have large wealth. They might also destroy it in the same way that other large wealth have been destroyed by flittering it away, wasting it, not securing it properly, not a spoiler alert, I hope, or your company being destroyed or taxed to death, other things like that. Go ahead. I mean, fundamentally, I don't see say you're as a threat. What is a threat? It's probably we'll see the first billionaire AI agent stacking sats and never giving it back. Its goal is to stack sats and it just starts gobbling and gobbling and creating value everywhere and everyone's paying the value because it's valuable for them at that moment. It just becomes the wealthiest thing in the world and it's an AI agent. I don't know, maybe we can... That's just interesting because I was thinking about the microsale thing and I was thinking anyone who accumulates that much, or any organization institution which accumulates that much, that much Bitcoin, then the world's simply not... I mean, if it's obviously if it's a big part of the world's economy, the world's gone and not going to let them start dumping them, doing a minuteulating the price. But when it comes to an AI agent doing that, then it's kind of a little bit harder to, you know, start a physical person with a company and a... It's not a physical person and they can release a million agents to work for them or a billion agents. Plus, you can't put them in prison because you can't punish them at all, humans you can punish them with threats of fines or prison, AI agent, you can't threat them. So these things are going to become richer than humans and they're going to use... Well, the other problem with the AI agent, Josh, is it lives forever. So on the time scale, while we can say, okay, micro strategy is a bad thing during our time, for all we know it'll be split up amongst Michael Taylor's 10 sons and they'll fight for the money and three of them will spend it and seven will do the... The over time, the inheritance theoretically is spread out to more people and flittered away return to the economy. What you're saying with the AI agent, it would never die. So it would never have a change of command where they're going to say, oh, we're rich now. I'm going to go buy the race horse or whatever rich people buy when they're truly rich baseball team, all these kind of things. So that is a new threat, but it's not one that hasn't been addressed in science fiction. William Gibson wrote about winter mute and AI that was spawned from a rich family where they would wake up one member of the family every hundred years to sign the corporate documents to keep the corporation going as the AI ran things and it's been a long time since I read the trilogy of books, but it is out there. But go ahead, Ben, more on this. I mean, budgets. Yeah, I mean, what? What about AI agents? But I will say on disproportionate wealth and wealth disparity that I live in a country which is littered with broken up old castles and dilapidated stately homes, which they once were the masters of the universe and had all the world's money. But over time, like you say, you get the way with children who develop substance abuse issues or gambling problems or whatever else. And eventually, that wealth gets distributed back into the into the economy. But yeah, the AI thing enough to have a thing. At this point, maybe we could just hope for a better version of the AI that would hack the old version of the AI and steal from it, maybe even distributing it to other AI's like an AI Robin Hood. And there is someone in the chat talking about, I think it's called truth terminal AI and it's goatsy coin. I don't know the details, but I've heard that an AI made a coin than other AI's agreed that that coin was valuable. So they all pumped it and then it went up. And then on that proof of concept, all kinds of humans are now looking at that trying to find the next coin. The AI will pump. Of course, the AI could be fronting and fake punt pumping and using the humans and all those things. There's a lot of game theory going on there. But it's very, very interesting that that stuff is happening. That's the cutting edge. Absolutely of this. Yeah. Yeah. It's mad. It's mad. And we don't know. I mean, it's hilarious as well. Like we can try to smile at it because there's so many, there's so much amazement happening right now. It's probably the most interesting time to be alive outside of when new lands could be discovered. And even then, you know, you didn't get the news very, very on very timely. So we are living in extraordinary times. And you know, maybe it's that somebody builds an agent that collects wealth and redistributes it to people. So there's this sort of idea is going around as well. But yeah, who knows? I guess like we've seen before with the establishment of a Bitcoin backed economy. It's kind of, I mean, I think it's pretty much inevitable really. It's the best option. Or it's the least, it's most of the stoppable. And apolitical water reserve currency will have a very beneficial impact when it comes to conflict. So that's one of Bitcoin's properties, which isn't spoken about nearly enough. And then all those are the wild cards like AI, AI. There's not really much. You can do like, say, it's just, it's an inevitable thing which we'll develop and we'll just have to then deliver that. Yep. Let's move on to the exit question. We've seen Bitcoin 100, Bitcoin 1000, Bitcoin 100,000. The next 10X would be Bitcoin 1 million. How far away will we see it? And how will we, how will we feel when it comes? Josh, it got a Bitcoin 1 million. Do you think it'll be soon? And how will we feel? It won't be soon, but generally, I mean, what is soon? It'll be in our lifetime. Yep. That's pretty good. And how are we going to feel more of this, FOMO didn't hoddle enough. WANWANWAN could have gotten a million dollars blah blah blah. I mean, it, you know, it, it, it, it's always going to have that feeling. Right? I, you know, once it's a million, you think, ah, I should have stacked more stats. I shouldn't have bought that phone. I shouldn't have bought that. Every sandwich was a hundred K. Every round of beers was a car. Yeah, I mean, you know, back in the day, I was literally handing, giving people five Bitcoin to test out. Yeah, here have five Bitcoin. You can't think like that. What's the point? I think I used to give out point once, even point zero one right now. I'm like, if I could have told someone, hey, there's 10 grand in that wallet that I gave you that one time. They're all lost. They're all lost. I'm the murderer of point ones and point zero ones. You give these people the accounts. You write down the codes. You write down the keys. You give them the coin base, whatever it is. It's always the same. They, they never value it when you give them the little bit free. Yeah, but those pieces, we wouldn't be where we were if it weren't for, you know, or the, or the bloodied souls, which were this Bitcoin price is sitting upon. It's from all those little giveaways of five Bitcoin, one little, all those giveaways of five Bitcoin and point one Bitcoin and whatever else. People re-investing back in, yeah, man, people re-investing back into this great thing, this great project. Yeah, I just want to see more stories of taxi cab drivers and Uber's gone. Somebody gave me a point one back in the day. Now it's 10k. You know, I bought a new car, some kind of thing. But I guess the real, the real kick is if they just keep holding till 100k or something like that. Ben, when will we see a million dollars will it be within our lifetimes as Josh says? I think soon, man, like, like I said, like it's the, the pump in 2021, it was off the back of a much smaller Bitcoin world than what we have. Now I kind of feel like 100k is going to become a floor pretty quickly. And, you know, million, you know, this year, next year. Like, honestly, the, the news, the stuff which is happening in the world when it comes to Bitcoin accumulation and these, and these nations talking about accumulating Bitcoin using Bitcoin then it's, it's pretty powerful. So very soon. But the real talk is 600 billion per coin. Watch the coin Telegraph will make an article with that headline. 600 billion per coin. 600 billion per coin. That's the best thing about the 600 billion. If anyone, no one knows about knows about the 600 billion. You see the stickers every time it's a bit called conference in the sea or just say 600 billion. These little orange stickers everywhere. And that's the best part about is it just smashes all those stupid like Michael. Sorry, let's just one day going to be worth a million acquaintance. I know 600 billion. I'll get the fuck out. Get the fuck out of my face with the million. I also think we're in a mania now where like been saying 100 110 150 250 these are all within the range now. And whereas you know back in the day we used to be like oh 300 dollars a thousand dollars. Wow, this is a lot in the same way now if it went from 100 to 300 if went from 300 to a thousand we're talking a million. And I think that if you talk to these new corners especially the bankers and the governments and whatever else you may have they don't think a small time like us. They're not oh it's a thousand up. I'm killing it. They are thinking in hundreds of thousands. They are thinking of a thing that rolls. And they're also thinking of great ways to get you to give up your Bitcoin. So there's all kinds of people out there right now getting you trying to spend it and sell it and lose it. And if you do spend it you can always rebuy. You can just you know spend 100 by 100. But Josh more on this. Yeah, it's always hard. You know, the inner human has an inner greed. And it's about you know, I'll have we reach the top. I want to sell the top this time. So that I can buy the bottom. And you know, at the end of the day it all comes down to cost averaging by a little bit every week on a Tuesday or every month on a Tuesday or whatever it is. And as it starts to reach these all time highs sell a little bit every Tuesday. And and that's even though no one ever does it. They all say it. It's so much. It's it's generally what happens with everyone I know. I tell them that and they go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just want all in right now or I want all out right now. It's either all in all out because that's the maximum profit right. If you're right in that moment. But generally speaking, the best strategy is to average in average out or just average in and never average out and just stay and and ride out the bull bear markets and just keep keep averaging in. If you've got a if you've got a day job or an income. And if you can also sell small amounts like sell 10% or 1% instead of selling 100% also just selling enough to cover your bills sell a little each month and have a reserve have a reserve of cash have you know, safety nets. But it's very hard. But let's move on. I think well, I think it'll go to a million dollars. Yes. I think it'll go in our lifetimes. I think it'll go soon. I would agree with more Ben. I think three to five years. I think it's not very far off. And when it goes to a million dollars if we're still doing this show or if we do a special episode for the million dollars, I know what I'm going to say, I'm going to say two million five million 10 million now that we're in this range, it doesn't matter. We're in another range. The people who just joined so and so owns Monte Carlo casino so and so owns the Royals Royce factory and they expect returns. They want 10 X on their money. They didn't buy it at a million to sell it at five million. They bought it a million to sell it at 10 million. Then we'll see 100 million. And then we'll be talking about how we bought beers instead of buying a house 20 years ago, crap like that. But we just got to see how it turns out. Let's move on to issue two dunking on finance guys. Check out this from CNBC as the anchor tells the Bitcoin skeptic you've missed it. And I've been a skeptic over the years because of some of the things that you just go to powellon in terms of its store of value. It's not a currency equivalent, right? It is a speculative asset. And we say be very, very careful. We don't have it in client assets right now. There are ways to play it through the exchanges. But certainly it's getting the attention and we're getting lots of questions about it. 40% since the election, but 60% ARR for 15 years or 10 or 15 years. So when you've missed it, we have missed that. Yeah. We did miss the O equity market though. So we got that which has been one more time here just for posterity. You've missed it. We are 10 or 15 years. So I've sent this since the election, but 60% ARR for 15 years or 10 or 15 years. So you've missed it. We have missed that. Yeah. We did miss the O equity market. You've missed it. Yes. We have missed it. Yeah. We've predicted this for years. Now it is here. The finance people have bowed to our greatness. You mean Josh, everybody else out there how finny everybody that talked about Bitcoin, everybody that owned Bitcoin, every libertarian who had Bitcoin, Derek Jay, Dovey Barker, Andrea Santanopoulos, Roger Ver, all these people, trace mayor, they were all right. All the finance people were wrong. All of their magazines were wrong. All of their TV shows were wrong. All of their books were wrong. All of their investments were wrong. All of their special investment clubs who paid money to join that they advertise horribly on CNBC were wrong. You know, who is right? A bunch of idiots on the internet people with YouTube channels, people with Twitter accounts, people on the Bitcoin talk forums, nerdy people, cypherpunk people, libertarian people, they were right. These finance people are wrong. And now they've publicly admitted it. And we can drag them through the streets. Ben Arck, what do you think about these finance people who are wrong, wrong, wrong about Bitcoin? Yeah, for Naysay's of Bitcoin, they've just been proved massive fools. Like this is a reputation killer for financial, these all these financial thought leaders who gave Bitcoin some of shit for so long. And they tried to Naysay as long as they could because obviously they they're taking a stance and they need to keep that stance that there's things upon you. This thing is this is for dark markets. It's for it's silly cacker geeky internet money. I hate that. I hate when like great technology is fobbed off as just some geeky tool. And it's like, no, you're talking about very bright, dedicated engineers or in their time and love into something and trying to build a tool which could benefit humanity. It's not just some geeky internet money tool. But yes, it's it's a reputation killer for Naysay. I mean, how can you ever trust their advice if you say for 10 years? It's not just it's not just like it's gone from zero to 100k. Like it's done this a whole bunch of times. There's been cycles that's gone up, it's gone up, it's gone down, it's gone up, it's gone down. And we've had these like incredible wealth generating cycles for a lot of people and for them just to really miss the ball on it repeatedly. When it's so obviously a good idea and there's such a huge wealth of information out there on the internet books, whatever, to explain why it's a good idea and why it's probably going to carry on going up and value in all the different things you can use the Bitcoin for. Yeah, it's a reputation killer. And again, it's another very bullish property of where we are at the moment is that we have those clear skies. And like we in Joshua saying before, there's the Naysay is stepping out the way or they're melting away, they've been proved to be idiots or they're having to flip and say they actually like Bitcoin. But then they do what they always do and say we've missed it. Yeah. The whole concept of missing is stupid. I mean, yeah, you missed the mega gains. But like 600 billion. Exactly. But yeah, you heard them, they expect you to keep listening to them. They expect to continue to be finance experts, even though they missed this big thing. The guy is just like, Oh, well, we missed equities too. I mean, he's just rolling right always like, I'm still CEO. I'm not going to resign. I'm not going to give everyone back their money. What about the kid that came in and was like, Hey, mom and dad should invest in Bitcoin and this financial guy with all his degrees says, No, that's a stupid investment. That's drug money. And again, their job is to look for cool new things for people who invest in solar panel, environmental stuff, a new way of making fuel. They're supposed to be reading these cool books and saying, Hey, you know, we could make money on building a railroad from there to there. We could make money on making ice faster, whatever it is, all these kind of technology things. That's not my job. My job, if anything, as William Gibson described in the book, pattern recognition is a cool hunter. I'm out there on the internet looking for things that are cool. I like new cameras, iPhones, you know, new laptops, whatever it is, cool stuff. And I find this Bitcoin, I say, this is cool. This is cool new technology. This is like a faster modem. This is like connecting to the internet instead of a BBS. This is cool. And I say, all my friends, all my family, I have found cool. My job is to look for cool. And I have found it. And what do they say? They say, I don't have a hundred dollars to invest in your cool. And now the cool is worth a hundred thousand dollars. And all these finance guys were wrong. And sadly, most of my friends were wrong who never invested. And like Ben says, this isn't the first time we've done this. You know, we went from, you know, a hundred to a thousand, we went from a thousand to ten thousand. We went back down. Oh, no, we went to, you know, this and that we keep doing this. We keep going through these cycles. And again, I have this friend who's like, I gave him a little bit of Bitcoin. He's like, he's in a rush to sell it now. He's like, I've got to sell that while it's high. And I say, no, sell everything else that you own in Fiat, sell all your stocks, sell all your stupid savings accounts, keep some for safety. It's be reasonable. But if you have investment money and not financial advice, it should probably be a Bitcoin, right? Yeah. It should probably be in the coolest tech that you can find that is investible. I go to Josh, I talked a lot. No, no, it's very good points. Looking for cool is spot on. Yeah, I don't really have much to add to that. That's great. Oh, we have more dunking. We have more dunking on the finance guys. We all have FOMO, Wall Street's biggest market maker just flipped Bitcoin price bullish. As he says here, Ken Griffin, this is one of the guys that bet against GameStop. I just watched the GameStop movie, Ken Reason. I love dumb money. It's a great film. He says, of course, I wish I bought something that trades at a hundred times the price it traded at a few years ago. That's kind of like the point of making money. He says the billionaire founder of market maker Citadel securities and its sister hedge fund said, we all have FOMO fear of missing out. It's just universal part of human society. So again, they missed out. They missed the boat. Psychology gone. Ben Arcus back with this logo. Ben, what do you think? More dunking on the finance guys. We have anything else to say. Not financial advice. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I mean, there is truth in the fact that it does erode the power of some of these like the USD. I think we've got maybe some topics in. We're going to cover some of the topics where we can talk about this. It is there to attack the USD. That's interesting to when people will wake up to that. What impact they'll have on DLS embracing Bitcoin. He was right. Well, that's definitely the new nonsense. They're trying to say that Bitcoin is only digital gold. And this, sadly, I don't want to talk about it, but leads into that ridiculous reserve idea. If Bitcoin is just digital gold, sure, it's fine to have a reserve of it. But if Bitcoin is a competing currency to the dollar, then you are bringing the snake inside the house. And I'm saying for Josh before he get into it, everyone should have a Bitcoin strategic Bitcoin reserve. Everyone except the people who control and make the dollar. Because if the people who control and make the dollar are betting against their own product, they're sending a mixed market signal that says you need to be betting against the dollar too. We run this thing and we're betting against it. Imagine how much you, you mentioned Saudi Arabia. Imagine how much you Saudi Arabia or every other country should be betting against the dollar now. And that's a horrible market signal to send unless it's some kind of a secret plot and you want to destroy the dollar and cause chaos. And that's just going to cause chaos. It's not good for anybody. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is like in the chat, they're mentioning Peter Schiff. I agree, you know, it's sad to see because I used to love listening to Peter Schiff in 2008 before Bitcoin to the name 2007 to the and he was spot on and his father, Adam Schiff, you know, very, very good lessons. But what I get upset about with Peter is he was so, he's always been just so righteous in his viewpoint against Bitcoin in a very strong sense. And that has caused his countless followers who were right, who were right there watching this piece. And I hope most of them didn't listen to him, not, not actually ride this train along. Now saying that I don't think Peter is that dumb. I think this was a talking point because it used to, when he used to tweet this sort of thing, everybody retweeted it. So it was almost like a marketing cost being anti Bitcoin was his thing because he would be invited on shows, he would be invited on all his tweets would be retweeted. All of us Bitcoiners will be talking about him. And meanwhile, I have seen tweets where his son is stacking sats. And so family-wise, his son's buying and it used to be the point where when Peter Schiff tweeted, believe it or not, it actually moved the markets back in the day. So Peter Schiff would call it dirt and fudder. Bitcoin will go down. And I think he was stack, his family at least, someone in his family was stacking sats in that moment. So the idea that, you know, he's, he's immediate, I don't buy it. I think he was, that's his talking point, that's his marketing thing. I do believe he doesn't like it as much as gold at all. But he can't be this dumb. Like, he just, in the same vein, Jamie Diamond of Chase Manhattan Bank was always trashing Bitcoin. Meanwhile, his daughter was said to be buying it. So that could be a thing. But I also, I just hate the idea of someone, you're out there promoting something like you get into this hate thing. You're like, I hate Bitcoin. So you're going to go after it and you attack every day. And it's, it's really simple. You're, you're against Bitcoin. Whatever happens, you're against it. It's accepted somewhere. You're against that. It goes up, you're against it, it goes down. You're in favor of that. All these things. But to go out there, disingenuously, and to own it secretly or to have some interest in it. It's just so disappointing as a human being. We don't know that that's true about Peter Schiff just deposit here. But on the same way, I'm pretty happy to be in a point where I've promoted something that I think was positive for people. I think most people who invested in Bitcoin or read about it more, which was mainly my advice, probably did pretty well. It would be a bummer if I was out here, promoted something, you know, Johnny's altcoin and Johnny's altcoin went through the floor. And I kept promoting it and it kept going through the floor. And it was a disaster. So it is, I think, a lot better psychologically, emotionally, to be on the right side of this. We can't control that. I didn't know that Bitcoin was going to 100K or that it's going up or down. I think what I think. But yeah, it is, it is worse. I mean, I guess you get trapped into it at a certain point. Hating Bitcoin is his thing, like, and he's making money from that. He's maybe writing books about. He's doing appearances. He's raising his Q rating or whatever it is, getting his numbers up. So there must be some kind of profit in that that would off-way or outset this bad feeling of not giving the right advice or not giving your best advice. It's also, yeah, I mean, it's like, sorry. It's also like hating the internet, you know, in the late 90s. Like, yeah, you can hate the internet in the late 90s. But to then continue to hate it for the next half of many years, because you'd ask your stance and you hate the internet doesn't make sense because the internet and the late 90s converts the internet we had in 2000s is completely different because it changes. It evolves. The technology is built upon and it's the same with Bitcoin. It's not like just hating gold or just hating something which isn't changing all the time. So anyone who takes a stance on Bitcoin and maybe they've got some good argument against it, you know, maybe years ago, you know, the transactions we put and that sort of stuff, they sense, you know, this won't work as money because it can only do four transactions a second. Well, you know, then we get the lightning network and then we get this and we get that, we get all these technologies and tools and things being built on Bitcoin. So every three, three, four years, if you've taken a stance, you do have to just readdress it. But I think, like Josh was saying, for Peter Schiffy, he was one of his, you know, biggest talking points was every time Bitcoin had a price dump him jumping on all those shows and it would sell boxes, his professional thing. He's the Bitcoin heteroguyke and like, you know, he's tweaked stuff out and it can manipulate markets and but it kept, I mean, I imagine for the past few years, he's been capped up at night crossing his fingers, hoping that something catastrophic happens to Bitcoin so he's proved right. And seeing that, that's not happening. And I don't know what he's saying about the current pump over 100k. I mean, I haven't seen, but it's probably worth checking out his Twitter and seeing what he's saying these days. Yeah. That's exactly how he makes the money. It's worth checking out. We know what he says. He's going to say the same negative thing that it's a false pump and it's manipulated by this and it won't last. You'll never reach a million. Yeah. All those things. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, believe it or not, I'm at a lesser extent. I see it with AI as well. People are saying, literally saying, it's a fad. It's just a fad. Don't worry about it. It's going to, it won't take all the jobs. It's a fad. And you just look at them and you just think, really dude, it's just a fad. Have you? Like, what, how can you use the tools that that is so amazing that it fools people into thinking there's consciousness behind it and and say it's a fad. I mean, it's unbelievable. And these are the same sort of people that call it. Remember, Josh, they first they won't use the tool. They won't use chat GPT directly. They won't use Bitcoin directly. They'll use someone's interpretation of it. Someone use chat GPT and it told them to murder people. Someone used Bitcoin and they used it for drug money. They'll find a corner to attack it from. But I agree with you, when I look at it and I think about the AI, I imagine a box coming down. I imagine unfolding in a multitude of directions. So many different things that it can do. So many areas that it can disrupt in the same way when I saw Bitcoin. And I read more about it and I learned more and I watched Andreas videos and all these things. It unfolds in so many directions as so many possibilities. I don't ever just see it as one thing. And as a technologist, I have that ability to see that where I don't just pocket something and say, oh, it's gold or oh, it's money or oh, the AI does nice math or it converts units really well. Fahrenheit to Celsius. It's so much more. And I think they tied together perfectly like blockchains and Bitcoin and AI. They work really well together. Not only because I was on an AI panel yesterday. I talked about this. It's not only that AI can't legally get a bank account with KYC and start. It could do it because it could just fake a KYC and stuff. But legally it can't. And so what it's native thing is to use crypto yet. Okay, so that's the basics. But also, what will happen is the deep fakes and all of this stuff that AI can produce. I think anyone in a prominent space will have to start. And I've been saying this on the show for years. Anyone that's prominent will have to start hashing their life. A video stream and using the hashes of the video stream of their life into a blockchain. And then people that are more prominent will have to be doing more iterations. So instead of a hash every 10 minutes, maybe they're hash every 30 seconds because someone will come out with an image and say, look, and extort money. And it's happened to big CEOs being extorted for a million bucks and they pay it because they've got a deep fake image. And so, you know, in the future, you might have politicians and celebs or powerful people having to hash their life into blockchains consistently so they can go to a court and say, no, no, look, here, this is where I was and rehash the image and go, look, this is where I was. At that time, this is allegedly happened. So a blockchains AI have a very tight bond in multiple ways. And we're heading to a brave new world very quickly. And it's a tsunami that's coming so fast that people don't understand it. Bitcoin is kind of understanding because they're a bit more of a grasp of exponentiality. But the swaths of jobs that would just be wiped out in an instant, not like when the photocopier got released. And there's warehouses of teenagers, all retyping documents for people suddenly gone. That job's just gone. But AI is far worth because it's not just one technology. AI, like Thomas said, can be everything. It can be everything. Everything that is a thought, a thought job or a and then with the robots, I just saw Elon's new robot being up to catch a ball with this amazingly dixterous hand. Like we're heading into a place where we don't know what's going on. So stack now, make money now, make money now. I would say that as well, like, people are going back to be thought we're saying about Bitcoin and just having these technologies to fix a bunch of problems. Like the past century is it's fairly remarkable that humans haven't destroyed themselves with nuclear weapons. And I kind of feel that, you know, AI is probably the answer to those sorts of problems as well. Like maybe we shouldn't have geriatric hyperparinoid world leaders making decisions and with their finger like hovering over the nuclear weapon button. And it's a very hard thing for humans to kind of wrap their heads around, but just because the amount of data, data points, inputs into artificial intelligence, more and more, I'm leaning onto asking AI stuff when I need to find out some think and then trusting that that's telling me the truth because they've processed so much more data than a human could process on that thing which I'm asking them. And I do think that when it comes to not the governance of humans, but, you know, government itself is just a mechanism, you know, an apparatus so we can all carry on doing our lives. And I'm sure we could minimize that and then have a lot of the decision making just in the hands of some AI, which is less likely to get hyperparinoid and press that nuclear weapon, but I'm, you know, but I have high hopes for AI. I don't think that it will kill us all. I think it's probably just going to try and improve humanity and it's going to do a good job doing it. And absolutely like public key cryptography and normal people are just going to have to get used to private key public key and using the laws of the universe to put proof of human. Well, it's interesting Ben. I read an article in the Atlantic recently where they talked about how people are getting the wrong message from dystopian movies. They're movies that are clearly anti dystopia and people watching them and coming out of them being pro dystopia. And I think back like you're saying to the, of course, the classic original movie war games from the 1980s where the computer is put in charge of the nuclear weapons and very quickly with the example of tic tac toe and nuclear war, the computer thermo nuclear war, the computer realizes that the only way to win is not to play the game. Ironically, Ronald Reagan watches this, gets nervous about computer hacking, also gets admiral admiration of that beautiful set that they built and builds one of those for no rad and starts to protect things for computer hacking. But there is that other movie about the nuclear weapons at the end of the world, not beaches, but something like that. And it was on television and it freaked everybody out. And that one worked. That one snapped Reagan out of it. But we don't seem to be able to reach people with this kind of art anymore. And so we drift closer and closer to the edge and everyone thinks it's kind of funny. Like Josh was saying, though, there's another movie, the Robin Williams movie. I think it's called Final Cut. And everyone wears these little necklaces around their neck and it records your entire life, but it records it from your memories. So it's a little uncertain if it's the real thing or if it's like Rashomon, most multiple people seeing a murder from different angles. And maybe one thought it was this and one thought it was that. So we get all this new data, but we get further and further away from the truth, even though we have all this data. And to just go back and dunk on the financial guys again, I think it was hubris. I think that they didn't believe it could happen to their industry from my perspective as an internet computer person. We got the internet going. We pretty much crushed. I would say kind of pornography magazines, pornography video tapes. Those were one of the first industries affected by the internet. And no one really noticed because no one gives an F about those things, right? But once they were gone, then they started to crush movies, music, streaming, all these kind of things and better and better technology tools, things like the MP3 compression algorithms contributed to this crushing. Then it was time to crush the finance industry. And it was really clear for a decade that Bitcoin was that thing that the way had been written, the way that open source had been designed, the way the different players were, even the people that were in charge of it at the time, anytime you want to come into it, other than that early period with Satoshi, there's a whole team of open source programmers behind Bitcoin, which we look at, all the other open source successes, Linux, other things like that. A team of people on the internet drawn from many corners of the globe turns out to be the best team. And that's the team that crushed the music industry, crushed the movie industry. And then as we've seen now, crushed or is crushing the financial industry. And to go a step further, I think that AI is kind of the next generation of that, like Joshua's saying, it crushes all industries. So there will be new jobs, there will be things on the other side of that. But getting through that is going to be kind of messy. And it's really unfortunate. You would probably want something like a social safety net during that time. We're going to government services. You'd want a backup plan. And I think they're going to destroy that. So we'll go through it without it. And we'll see how many people fall through the non-existent net. We're lucky enough to have a grasp of public key crypto. And I honestly think that, because they are the tools of liberation on the internet. You understand public key crypto, you can control your own data, you can control your money, you can control what we see when lost, you can control your own social network stuff. And then you can move data around and actually own it and control it and protect it yourself. And yeah, those tools exist because of, you know, I mean, they're popularized because I mean, they exist because of people working for three-year agencies or whatever. But they've been popularized and the tools for people to be able to world those tools have been made possible by CypherPunks, Freenoprensource developers, Bitcoin. And it's like, what can we build? I get very excited when I think about an internet where the users of the internet have access to the tool of public key crypto. Because it's like, you can have the internet which we originally promised, one in which people freely share information. And you have this data revolution, which isn't captured by corporations and countries. So it's good time, yeah, good times for your life. Well, and public key crypto, that was one of the first tools, Ben, where you knew you were getting into something real because you had to type in a whole thing about how you wouldn't export it, at least in the United States. They had all these rules. They're like, when you decipher this, when you install PGP, you are installing a high grade encryption platform. You cannot export blah blah. You had to like type in like, yes, I will not export this. Like, that's how you know you're doing something real. And in the same way, when anyone encrypts anything today, they're creating a huge hassle for all kinds of other people who don't want that to be encrypted, that want it to be open. Let's move on to the exit question. How finny, who I think should be made a saint of Bitcoin. So we're just going to call him saint, how finny, saint, how finny's epic Bitcoin price prediction from 2009 is 10 million dollars per Bitcoin possible. Josh, you got a 10 million dollars per Bitcoin. These headlines, yeah, no, no, 600 billion. That's the prediction. Of course it is. It's about the destruction of the, if the dollar keeps getting printed, anything's possible. It's such a strange, strange conversational piece, but it's always there. 600 billion. Yep, going there, going there. We also have to look at the scale. We haven't even passed gold yet for a market cap. So we could still pass gold. There's a lot of room to grow. Ben, Ark, what do you think is 10 million dollars per coin possible? You see, the reason it's 600 billion per coin as well is that is the death row. That is when all the fear of shit just doesn't make sense to use. It's just bits of paper. So that's 600 billion. It's the last valuation you can have between Bitcoin and USD because then after that we're just using Bitcoin and we're giving up on USD stuff. So that's where we're targeting 600 billion. Who would be the market cap of Bitcoin at that point? It's the market cap. It's the dollars. The high-proflation because everyone's using Bitcoin and they try to high-proflate the dollar and then the last death row at this 600 billion until it just goes, I know. But do you know the trick then there is they'll charge you capital gains because they inflated the currency and said it's worth more now, but it's not worth more. Yeah, maybe your currency's gone down but they'll charge you capital gains because they've smashed their printer. I kind of feel that with skin in the game because I mean obviously the stuff we work on is Bitcoin being used for money in the Alan bits with the lightning stuff and as currency. Yeah, as currency, sorry, as currency. So I think that's going to happen more and more countries like our Salvador will just allow people to use Bitcoin as currency, particularly if they have skin in the game and they have reserves in it as well. And then some of those capital gains laws won't apply as much as they do. But what was the question again? Sorry. Well, the rise of Bitcoin rise to $10 million a coin. Yeah, I think it's probably worth $10 million a coin now. We're a thousand times better than we were when we're at $10,000. So yeah, $10 million a coin. Quick. I agree with TPP in the chat. He says fiat has no bottom and starship says $10 million in the late 2030s late 2030s. So I have to say I go as we've also I've just found the magic eight ball, the source of all truth in this and any other universe or generation. And I'm asking you, Josh Shagalla, the price of Bitcoin's risen. It's around $101,000. But will it be higher or lower this time next week? I really want to see it build a nice floor at 100k. Like if it just keeps cruising up to 130 or something like that, then it sucks because this bull market will be over soon. What you want to do is you want to have big rockets and then chill for a while. You know, I'd like to see it sitting around hovering around for about like two months on 100k. And then you know, oh wow, this means 150k is still coming in this bull market. And then once it reaches 150k, hover around there. And so these round numbers that humans love. Machines not so much. They'll just take whatever. But humans love the round numbers. So 100k, I hope that it sits there. But in terms of the short term the next week, I think we'll see higher next week. Yeah. Backster in the chat says he can't wait for one million dollars so that we'll have Austin powers memes. But I think by the time we reach $101 million, no one might know who Austin powers is. I feel like it's a tyrannic graph of Austin powers versus the price of Bitcoin rising. And when they meet, I wonder how many people will still know who Austin powers is. So I'll have to hold out for that. And let's see, let's go to Ben will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week. Yeah, I think you run something that Josh I think is going to pop about 100k for a bit. 215 or whatever is the target. It's been the target. I've said on this show for three, four years now on the cycle of it's going up. But yeah, I think once we get that flow of 100k, I mean, it's it's a planned demand scarcity. You got these big ETFs sucking up all the Bitcoin. You got microstrages sucking up all the Bitcoin. You got these countries building strategic reserves in Bitcoin. You got all the burnt coins from people giving them away and it's full of people not holding onto those wallets. The world is slowly starting to wake up to how scarce these things actually are. So yeah, I think we'll get an issue when the ETF go we need a million Bitcoin now. And the people go well, you can't get them. Yeah, whoosh. Yeah, 600 billion. As they say in the chat, 600 billion, but maybe not next week. Let's ask the magic eight ball, will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? You may rely on it. You may rely on it. So it all has spoken. Check out worldcryptonetwork.com, which now has a fixed security certificate. Thanks to Ben Arck and another guy in Twitter for helping me out and prodding me to get it fixed. It turned out the problem was money. You just had to put in more money. Apparently we use a software package called Plessk that allows you to act as a control panel for your web page or something like that. And Plessk didn't renew the certificate because we didn't pay Plessk because Plessk just decided that they should be paid recently and changed the way their software works. So interesting stuff, but not really. What it really means is now you can go to worldcryptonetwork.com and check out all our videos. We've got topics. We've got shows. We've got hosts and guests. We've got playlist. Check them out. You can click right here. Here's Blake Anderson. Look at all the shows we have with Blake right there at your fingertips at worldcryptonetwork.com. Now with the correct security certificate. Oh yeah. And 11 years and one day. There it is. 11 years and one day. Wow. Pretty good. And moving on to issue three. Mark Cuban says crypto hasn't had its Instagram moment despite Bitcoin reaching all time highs. And Mark Cuban, I'm sure he's a really nice man. I watch Shark Tank. It's cool. One time I went to the Dallas Mavericks game and it was nice. But he doesn't know anything about Bitcoin. And I wish people would stop asking him about it. Just four years ago in 2009, five years ago, Mark Cuban picked bananas over Bitcoin saying in a video that he would rather have bananas than Bitcoin warning potential Bitcoin and cryptocurrency investors that digital tokens have no intrinsic value. Why are we stuck with these commentators who trashed on Bitcoin telling us how good Bitcoin is or these political people like Anthony Scaremucci who ran a PR agency and worked for Trump for like nine days, which we call a Scaremucci now. Why is the mainstream media continuing to listen to non Bitcoin people who have no track record who tell them the same nonsense at all the wrong times. Josh Shagalla, why are we stuck with these people? Yeah, it's amazing. And then there's people like us who've been saying really, even if I say it myself, but Thomas, you've said some wise words along your time. Ben Arquie has said some extraordinarily wise words along the time. And so why aren't you guys being invited on CNBC and all of this thing? It just is what it is. And the thing that hurts me the most is going to these conferences and seeing these people get pulled out and and you know, paraded like heroes in front of all these people, even though they've made such terrible calls all the way, it's because you know, Cuban sold one company at a luck back in the day to Yahoo. And now he's just some, you know, absolutely genius. I don't know how many of his investments in Shark Tank have done well, not sure, but not as well as $5.7 billion that he sold to Yahoo. But yeah, I don't know. I just don't mark Cuban to noise me. He just is just his face just to noise me. Now I get that. I get that. You know, something happened and we lost our champion, right? And Jay-Santhanopolis is great at speaking. He's great at explaining Bitcoin. He doesn't want to do it anymore. He stopped taking the interviews from the TV people, but they could have found someone else. Even tone or Jimmy, they have a great grasp on Bitcoin. They've been in a long time and they've been correct and they're Bitcoin people. I trust those people. Instead, we have people like Michael Michael Sailor who was a dot commer and a party animal and everyone's forgotten. He just starts a company. They start buying Bitcoin. And now on the virtue of Michael Sailor having the good idea to buy Bitcoin, he's now an expert and he goes on TV and tells everyone else to buy Bitcoin, which is great. But maybe we could have someone with actual virtue who acted on it when it was nothing, someone like Trace Mayer or Roger Vier, legendary investors who when Bitcoin was nothing, when it was truly a risk, they put their money in and they put their time in volunteering, spreading the word, Roger, Trace, Andreas, all these other heroes from the past. Couldn't we just elevate one of them for CNBC, not have the Mark Cuban article, not have the Scaramucci's, etc. Ben Arck, what do you think about these strange announcers that we have? Yeah, I mean, they're totally just rehashing all the stuff we've been saying for years and they come in late and all our arguments are refined and they just pluck them out, say them and then they're lauded for being these bored thinking and like you say, whether they're new or whether these people before and where was Michael Sailor four years ago. Trace Mayer, he would have been great, get him on these shows, very eloquent. For his, TZP just said it. For his as well. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Eric four years, Josh human, I mean, like, like, Ricky, you said that, full Toro, and it's important platform, this image could work and you're very professional, dude. Yeah, I mean, we do have a lot of people within our little world, you know, Trace Mayer and you, Josh and Eric four years, people like that who would be great on these shows and I've no idea why they pluck. I mean, this probably just, I don't know, just Washington circles, you know, people from old families, isn't Mark Cuban, isn't either guy, he put radio on the internet, which they took the piss out of in Silicon Valley, isn't it that guy? He's like a parody of that guy. Yeah, that's pretty much Mark Cuban. It's not exactly radio like Napster. It was broadcast on and allegedly he was a borrowing college basketball games, which Mayer may not have been copyrighted and broadcasting them and Yahoo bought them for tons of money. Then his other key move in addition to selling to Yahoo who never did anything with their technology or their name eventually just pointing broadcast.com to Yahoo is that Mark Cuban sold Yahoo stock before it crashed. And that's, you know, that's not a specialty. That's not really like a chart reading thing. That was more of kind of a lucky timing, a good feeling or a sensibility. Maybe he had a sensibility said, this is enough money. Whereas other people who got money from his company were like, let's wait a few more weeks and they were involved in the Yahoo crash. I forget the number now. I think it was about $180 to $10 something like that. It was a generational and it was the entire.com industry that crashed. Mark Cuban got out before that happened. These, these, these, these like.com, because of Leon As who cashed out on the.com companies, their shitcoin is like a shitcoin cycle. They just build something which isn't sustainable. They hop on the, you know, the, the momentum and excitement people have around the internet. They see, they make a, they make some product which clearly probably isn't read that the internet's not ready for it. And then they stay shitcoin and sold that.com. So when anyone's made money in the.com era, the microsilers, whoever else, I don't really give them much credit for it because it's just, you know, it's particularly hard if you're in the right place at the right time at that time. But, um, that's why it was always so weird to see Michael or to see Mark Cuban on Shark Tank, which is about in investors and startups and building a business really gutting it out there, right? I mean, I'm sure he built broadcast.com, but the selling of it, the selling of the Yahoo stock, these are two kind of lucky things that fell on him. These aren't exactly like Bill Gates, building Microsoft, you know, customer at a time, Steve Jobs, building Apple, customer at a time out of nothing. In the same way that when they had the apprentice show in the United States, they pretended that this person was a really powerful investor. When in reality, he'd bankrupted casinos, he'd bankrupted his own real estate empire, this television lens that we put on things. And I think it's part of that lens that is still on Mark Cuban because we've seen him now a hundred times on Shark Tank say, oh, your business is a good idea, your business is a bad idea. He could be right. He could be wrong, but because of television, he has this authority to him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they need, they need, they need better, better talking heads. But I mean, you know, arguably broadcast television is less impactful than it used to be. And there's all these people on the internet now who are good at talking about things like Bitcoin. It's a shame that people like Andreas and Trace and that they burn out and, you know, they were around too early to have to get that big audience. But yeah, thank God for their service. It also seems like Coinbase and some of the more predictable places in the market have an exactly gone for your libertarian cypherpunk fire brands. They would rather get some nice talking people who want to read the price and say that the price is going up or down. And that if you keep your coverage in that band of just price coverage and you kind of mimic what the financial industry has done, which is this kind of thoughtless, brainless price coverage, which is absolutely worthless. I can tell you today Apple stock is great. You should have bought yesterday. That's the most worthless advice that that hurts you every time. I very rarely can say in the future X and X stock will be good because that's a huge risk. But that's what people want in that market is they want that easy information. And they also like that after information, that information that's totally worthless. Josh, you have more on this? No. All right, we'll go on to the next issue in this show that is all good news and nothing but gloating issue for micro strategies. Bitcoin bet has made it stock a big winner. Will other companies soon follow suit? And we've talked about micro strategy for a long time. How it's the same idea as the Ponzi scheme pirate at 40 where the guy said, you give me money. I will buy Bitcoin with that money. It's just that Michael sailors at a whole nother level and presumably much more financially responsible than the pirate at 40 scam. However, he and his company did put their money where their mouth is they did put their money in Bitcoin over and over again borrowing billions of dollars of other people's money to build their huge stack. And now they are huge winners. We also have El Salvador, whose president is triumphant after his bet on Bitcoin comes true. Same thing other people's money. He took a lot of it, put it into Bitcoin. The price went down. They all wrote articles negative of El Salvador mocking his choice saying it was a disaster. And now as we have predicted and others have predicted they held long enough to be a success. Micro strategy El Salvador, Lycom, Haydom, whatever. Huge successes. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about the huge success of micro strategy and the huge success of El Salvador? Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing is with other companies doing following Michael sailor strategy is that if they don't fundamentally understand Bitcoin like, you know, arguably sailor does. He's more he truly believes the Bitcoin thing. I think they will let go of that like I must did with with Tesla. The board, I don't know if it was mass, but the board voted against against holding it and selling selling back when it was down. Now there was a time when sailor could have been wiped out. It was very close because he had he had long positions and it just kept on going down and down and down and he would have had to cover those long positions. And so he was very lucky that it didn't drop another hundred bucks or something like that. It was close to the line. But what I fear is if he was to go and convince the board of Joe, because never just one person, you know, Elon on plays the the dictator of everything in his companies like he invents, like he's given credit for inventing everything. But at the end of the day, he has very, very talented people. But he's also got a board around him wherever he goes. And so if if you if sailor was to convince Microsoft to start to stock or any of these other companies to do the similar thing to hold on their balance sheet, I think what would happen is that once you get these all-time highs, you would see the board voting to dump them now. Either now or do the human thing like dump at their all-time at their lows when they're like, oh, if lose is anymore, just get rid of it now. It's a losing asset. So, um, whereas you really, if you've got to do that strategy, you have to be a true, a believer or not a believer, but you have to understand the fundamental value of Bitcoin. And a lot of people still don't understand the fundamental value. They'll buy it because they see CNBC now talking about and all the news organizations talking about it because it's all-time highs. But they won't buy it because they truly fundamentally don't get it. They don't get it. Why is this? I don't know it, but it's going high. And every time it goes down, it comes back up. So, you know, we got to buy some. And sailor, look at these companies. So we got to do it. But that what that does is set you up for paper hands holding the stuff and these paper hands will burn at the drop of a hat. So yeah, I don't think other companies, like people need that, um, need that base level of understanding to actually pull off what Michael sailor's done with micro strategy. Well, and you mentioned Tesla, Josh, there's a reason we're not talking about Tesla here is because Tesla, much like Germany, sold their Bitcoin. And now we can say, definitively, they had this much, they've lost this much between now and them. And there was an even a point when they were holding their Bitcoin where Tesla was making more from their hold from their hotdle on Bitcoin than they were from making cars. And I think this is a huge embarrassment to them as a company and embarrassment to all the engineers, especially the marketing and finance people who set up the whole idea of the company who out there selling stock based upon the idea of investing in this electric car company is better than investing in Bitcoin. When reality, if we look at what right now is the most successful company in the history of companies, it's micro strategy, doing nothing, buying Bitcoin, holding it. If you introduce this idea into a company like Microsoft, why bother making another software update when you make more from holding Bitcoin and not paying the engineers, which is a disaster for all companies and all basically ideas in the same way that chat GPT could wipe out all ideas and make everyone lazy and stupid. Running a company is kind of dumb compared to holding Bitcoin, which is kind of another, like the monkey's paw, I was talking about earlier, this psychological problem where you're saying, oh, we're making more money than we've ever made before, but then you have to fire everyone that ever did anything before because why do you need them now? Ben, what do you think about El Salvador's success and the success of micro strategy whose micro strategy might destroy every other company and every other idea and will end up like an idiotacy where Brando and the computer did that auto layoff thing, we're all fired. I mean, I got a special place in my heart for our self-adductor, so I went there when they first opened up and it was rough, guys with guns everywhere, not safe, dangerous, no people terrified. And then by opening up to this new industry, which had a lot of wealth in it and a lot of people who wanted somewhere to sell shop, sell businesses in a favorable environment, they brought in a lot of investment. I know a lot of businesses, which sat up there and more and more Bitcoin businesses are establishing some sub-sales there, as well as businesses who also got Bitcoiners, as well as make good money and then are moving there. And there's been huge growth, like huge growth, if you look at El Zonte, it was just a sleepy little beach town, Shaxx, you know, like Corrica Iron, buts, and now it's got massive, beautiful hotels, which kind of loses something in this way, but in a way, but I'm very happy because I met you know, a couple of the bar owners and shop owners and people who lived there and they would have sold that land and got good money for it. So the whole country is getting a lot of investment. It's not just a Bitcoiners as well, you're also open because I guess he looked at stuff he could offer, I'll start with awkward offers to the world and one of them was their great surf. And he opened, you know, he made the surf city and he brought in a lot of surfers and created, created, got a lot of tourism, economic growth for that as well. And you know, the Kelly was a grinder, there's lots of stuff he's done which arguably isn't very democratic and he could go the way it'd be in a dictator, but I hope he doesn't. When I've heard him speak, his, some of his speeches are very awe-inspiring and he's got a real good take on Bitcoin. But that country is gone from being the most backward and is the most, had the highest murder rate in the whole world, including war zones at that particular point in time. And now it's like one of the safest places to be on that hemisphere, which is a real incredible thing to achieve within four years, five years, four years, three years, three, four years, it's insane. And yeah, clearly other countries are going to look at that model and think, well, I worked for him, why couldn't it work for us? And we said this at the time, we said it's you know, it's the domino effect. It shows that a country can be favourable to Bitcoin and it can reap the rewards of being favourable to Bitcoin. So that's, that's pretty much it on the ourselves stuff and the Kelly, but the on the micro strategy part, you know, I love to hate Michael Sayler. And he has said some really stupid stuff about how now the adults are in the room and Bitcoin, you know, kind of talked about Bitcoin as being a hacky project and now you need the Bitcoin to be held by banks and blah, blah, blah. I'm not sure whether he was just playing to the Wall Street crowd or not when he said those things, but he, you know, he has also rehashed a lot of the things we've said and maybe some of that stuff is, has sunk in, but it is a, it's a micro, and he did almost get wiped out as well, like Josh was saying, he was very, very close for the my whole micro strategy experiment failing, but the, it is a micro strategy, like I give him shit for not investing any of the money that they made back into nurturing the industry, which is making the money for them and making the thing actually work. Like he hasn't funded any projects, he hasn't funded any free no resource projects, hasn't made any investments into Bitcoin companies. That's another thing, but arguably it's in the name micro strategy. He found a glitch in the system. When you have a world of fear finance where Bitcoin exists, you buy some Bitcoin, you then finance the Bitcoin, get bank loans on the Bitcoin, buy more Bitcoin, finance that Bitcoin, and you just do this and it's an infinite money, many money printing, Buggies found a glitch in the system and I don't know how long that glitch in the system will be able to exist because yeah, I mean, this is how they've accumulated such a huge fortune. And what they've also done as well by being the only place a lot of big, to say Bitcoin has had equity in Vanguard or in the financial system which they couldn't sell. Maybe they worked for a company and then they had some equity and they couldn't sell it, but they can switch it to another company. The only company they could do that too, which was linked to Bitcoin was micro strategy. So you had all these Bitcoiners with equity who then shifted their equity into micro strategy early on and they've all been made rich as well. I've got a whole bunch of friends who've got my strategy stuck and now they're making an absolute killing buying and selling options in micro strategy because this thing is just hockey sticking up. So I think I mean, the whole things they have now and the strategy has been proved to be very successful. So I think they're they're far and away clear of any danger. I think that danger has passed, which in a way I was kind of sad about because it might, I don't know, just because you know, but whatever. Like they do have the first move of advantage, but I'm sure some other firms will follow suit on just that glitch, just the money glitch which Michael, me, Michael Saylor is a genius as much as you know, he annoys me. He has a genius and he did see the money glitch and he took advantage of it. So yeah, pretty impressive stuff. It does seem like something that and everyone's going to hate me for this, but probably needs to be legislated out of existence. We probably need some kind of market protectionism here because like I'm saying, if Microsoft gets into this and they stop writing code, if every company gets into this and they start being companies and all we have is companies that hold Bitcoin, we need somebody to do something to make something. So that's where we change the rule. I think the AI companies as well, why bother building AI if you can just hold Bitcoin and have infinite money and just use that money to buy more Bitcoin that gives you more infinite money. So on and so forth, it seems similar to football with the push push where they can just push the players through when something like that happens and upsets the competitive balance as unexciting as it may be, especially for those who broke the competitive balance. I could say Michael Saylor here, you kind of have to change the rules to fix the rest of the competition. Otherwise, all your companies go away and nobody makes anything, we just hold Bitcoin. But I mean, it's going back to what we were saying before and this is also what Michael, and this is what Michael Saylor says quite a lot is if you have Bitcoin, don't sell it. Like, don't suddenly underlying us, just finance it. And it's similar to what Josh is building with the standard. Like a lot of these Bitcoiners who burn through their coins, maybe like Trace, maybe I don't want to speculate, but maybe some of these great thinkers we had in Bitcoin who not only burn out just from the Bitcoin burn out, whatever, maybe also burn out because they burn through their stack of angelizing. Maybe they now they wouldn't have to burn through that stack because there are tools being built by people like Joshua the standard where they can not sell the underlying asset, but finance the underlying asset in some clever ways. And so it will be good to see that that's and then we get around, probably get around these some of the problems we're talking about, not one thing to sell your Bitcoin because you know that it's going to go up in value in the future. You can finance it, use that money to buy a house, whatever. And then in X amount of years, you get your Bitcoin back. Well, I have to see how it goes. Let's move on to the last issue, issue four, kind of a negative story, but it is positive in other ways. The true story behind Netflix, new movie, biggest heist ever. Yes, there are spoiler alerts for biggest heist ever, but you already know the story because 72 million dollars worth of Bitcoin was allegedly stolen from Bitfinex, but who stole the money? But allegedly, Heather, Rosalcon Morgan and Ilya Dutch Lichtenstein, two of the greatest characters, perhaps in film history, Rosalcon the lady wants to be a famous rapper is wrapping on you to over and over with her husband Dutch enabling her at least that's what the screenplay and the film seems to be. What do you guys think about the new movie best biggest heist ever featuring the alleged Bitfinex hackers, Rosalcon and Dutch? Josh Shigala? I haven't seen it, but it's just the thing that I love about Bitcoin and it's been like this since the start is it just has such phenomenal characters all the way through, you know, from Ross Allbrick or DPR and then you've got Macaffee and you've got just there's just so many events and characters that have come along that it's phenomenal and this is just another chapter of these people that got lucky when he you know refreshed the browser or something because they talk about a hack but really it was just a bug that they exploited accidentally and as far as I know and just kept on refreshing and refreshing and it kept on showing more and more money showing up in their wallet as he was draining Bitfinex. Amazing absolutely phenomenal and story and these these two are just such characters awful characters but still characters nonetheless and so yeah I'm looking forward to watching it. And they were they were allegedly caught using Walmart gift cards to buy PlayStation, I want to say PlayStation 4s it might have been PlayStation 3s it was so long ago as a way to allegedly launder the money they had tons and tons of money but no way to spend it it was a really unique time of Bitcoin perhaps if they had just waited another 10 years they would have been able to employ people to hide it and to spend it they were in a big hurry though and they were newvo reach and like Josh is saying I think these I don't know them I don't know of them I watch them on YouTube like you guys but I just think that this this lady rapper on YouTube and her quiet mild mannered husband who's a hacker or a computer guy or something it's just a great story I think it's a great movie maybe it could even be a great sitcom or an ongoing show they could really flesh this story out maybe it's one of the great stories of our time like Bonnie and Clyde they robbed banks together and they romance together at night it's it's just a beautiful potential as a as a story Ben Arck what do you think about the alleged Bitfinex hackers having their own movie I mean I think we said at the time as as much as like they ripped people off and some friends of ours as well but there's something kind of lovable about them this that Bonnie and Clyde angle and how weird they were you know these are the masterminds behind this bit for next quote and quote hack I think like Josh was saying it was really they just look stumbled across a bug and they clearly weren't that bright because I mean like Bitcoin is a money laundering is wet dream you know you can there's a whole bunch of ways people want to laundered money through Bitcoin you coin mix you buy some NFTs for cheap and then you you spend some of the mixed coins pumping up the NFTs and you sell the NFT and they write you've got some clean money you've just made you know you've just made profit on the sale of the NFT going up so they I mean there's there's yeah when you launch a Bitcoin all the time and the way they're trying to laundering through PlayStation gift cards or Walmart gift cards and this alpha-bathing they tried to do as well it's uh it's pretty funny but I met her when I was in Nashville um this year yeah she came we were setting up um the sort of you know the hacker area and this this kind of girl came up to me with a shirt she had a weird vibe and I saw a wreck and I was like what's this fine I couldn't quite put my friend going she gave me a I can't remember what the sticker was but she gave me this very strange sticker loosely bit coin related sticker and I was like oh thanks and it was kind of so early that you know other people weren't really there um and then I realized she was going around giving lots of people these stickers and then there was all this talk about maybe that she'd been um she was reducing her sentence um by and baby being recruited by CIA or FBI or something like that um so I just need to fold but it's very strange that she I mean if I was her yeah that was really good because the amount yes wait because the amount of people she'd ripped off if I was high wouldn't be I wouldn't be running around a bit of coin conference um very odd but the the the the the terms like I as well she got I think she got 18 months and she and he got like six years or something which isn't really not much for the amount of money they stole but anyway um it does it does seem similar to Carpellis or uh sbf where in a way like Theranos stealing all this money you ran a big company even though it was a fraud and it was a theft and it resulted in disaster and that made you kind of famous and this qualifies you to then run another big company in the same way that these failed commentators who didn't see Bitcoin that's now a qualification for them to talk about Bitcoin they're lack of seeing their lack of of foresight these people ran their companies into the ground and now people say let's give them a second chance but a second chance is not warranted look at sbf he doesn't run the company at all they ran the finances out of quick books right they sort of stepped stepped aside a dozen times because he was over his head but the the lesson that we're saying is over his head cost people their savings their life savings give him another chance let's let's Charlie Shremam let's mark Carpellisum give him another job yeah it's it is where it's I mean I think with the sbf example he understood that the game working with vc's and investors that he has to pretend to be this genius of on and play the character and and then they bought into it but yeah these these two guys weren't geniuses I really look forward to the Netflix on this this one for these two but then also yeah the the sbf guy now I'm sure that they'll be cracking Netflix uh mini series too I can't wait and I'm surprised we haven't gotten more details on the polycule and that there's not a tell all book I was I was inside the compound with sbf and I saw dot dot dot uh I think I would read that I think anybody would read that and uh like Ben saying you could pre-sell the movie rights that's a that's an easy movie right there okay all right I think we're running out of time it's been a really long show but we had nothing but positive stories as Bitcoin breaks a hundred thousand dollars and we're all nothing but positive Josh Egoldi have a prediction or a story of the week as we finish out this incredible positive show even the e-ball was positive yeah even the e-ball got on board uh no I just want to say we uh we you know we've been working four years on the standard IO I'm very very proud of the team we're a small team and what we've built is is really phenomenal it's really working well now um and uh we are just about to upgrade the contracts to uh basically solidify uh almost an iron dome for these things so um it's it's really exciting 4.1 vaults are being audited by Cypheron uh who are some of the core developers of chainlink and some of the technology that they've built with oracles and stuff amazing guys so they they're auditing us as of monday uh these final uh smart contracts and um yeah come and come and please check us out uh and uh and join the community and have a chat we've got a really the community's growing a lot that in turn but it's still small like um but it's just a really nice community it's not you know overwhelming with heaps of chat constantly going it's it's a really nice community people talk really great alpha info in there and uh also you know it's not just dumbass uh you know meme coin crap it's it's real conversations and good stuff so um yeah come and check out the standard IO and what we're building and uh and give us some feedback as well you can test it out and uh and give us some feedback see what you think it is quite something Josh when a community is still small and you can contribute to it i like this community even though we've got a little smaller so everyone just take a chance give us a thumbs up down below yeah it's showing me the average view don't uh duration and i can tell you guys at 18 minutes and 30 seconds this is ridiculous you guys are watching long form content on youtube you're experiencing it in a way that no one else is they're watching these 30 second shorts and they're having 30 second ideas in their head i think if you watch long form stuff you can think longer you can explore ideas and i'm excited to explore these ideas with you even if we're a smaller audience than we used to be in we'd get maybe more audience if we predicted the future more uh with the eight ball um but we like you guys the thoughtful ones uh shout out to shrodinger's uh starship shrodinger's destiny he says someone that has failed of running a company is probably a better bet than someone that has the failure teaches you lessons and i agree with that it's a possibility and uh backster says aviation saying it's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground so good stuff guys thanks for chatting with us today uh Ben arc do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead yeah i mean the audience is small but when you go to these conferences you realize legit people watch the show you know when uh you have yeah some of the greatest names in bitcoin corutch and go and i watched wc and shrol blah blah which i've had multiple times so it's it's quality not quantity and we've been around for 11 years and um and the day broken so oh and a day that's true that's an important day and it's broken so many new it's i mean so many great ideas of co-owner show and and innovations and projects and yeah man it's it's sick it's a great thing to be a part of um story of the week is i was in Portugal me and the island bits two we've been hanging out and we were just chatting about um yeah like so just we're coming into v1 for Alan bits um probably like like January the 1st or something we're gonna get released kind of it out um before we break up for christmas and then we're v1ing so that's gonna be really exciting but there's a lot of work to do for that um it makes building extensions way easier so that's a lot of fun i'd be i knocked out like last week i'm not allowed like a couple of new extensions gambling gambling extensions a coin flip extension which is fun and then also uh like a a lottery type extension and i think about doing like a numbers one two but for like block height or something um and uh yeah my noster so um the linoopo five stuff so selling pretty names on my noster we've been working on stuff to make that better um so that yeah that was the week pretty much just hanging out with the guys and like just um not that much coding really just sitting around just summarizing where we've come to you know like it's four and a half five years of yes similar to the standard actually yeah like like a bunch of years building the thing and now v1 and it's quite exciting but also terrifying um because this is then the i suppose the real work begins like with the adoption and stuff but yeah it's pretty cool yeah it's pretty cool i've got a url big coin races.com i've been holding on to it for years and years i'd love to do something with LnBits just having some you know fake horses running or something like that and it's uh you know uses provably fair or something uh block height like the payments and and gambling is really interesting i don't want to one of the best games in vegas is an old derby game where it has a little moving horses and they come up with odd so it's like 21 to 1 200 to 1 500 to 1 and you know bet your quarters on it and uh i always lose but everyone always has fun at that table. You can probably use the like transactions and the member pull us up and think they could be the horses like which one's going to get confirmed the race to confirmations um that mean like that yeah that'd be cool yeah yeah yeah yeah well done Ben it's great well done Ben you passed on the back wall round all round oh very good very good uh so i don't have much of a story this week uh i was going to say i'm still reading redmay by uh Neil Stephenson it's great it's all about the future where a computer virus acts in uh controls your files then to pay the computer virus back you have to go to a certain mountain in world of warcraft and you have to fight your way there and uh it's a really cool idea and all kinds of other futuristic stuff in there uh giving me the good ideas for the future even though it's an older book uh tv shows i'm watching the show shrinking on apple tv plus it started out as a comedy it's a little bit of a dramedy now uh but it's still fun i just like Jason Seagal uh especially because he played uh david foster walless in the movie and uh movie i'm sticking with dumb money it's got great music it's from the covid time it's about the little people making money on the game stop stock back in the day and it reminds me of us bitcoiners uh some of them made it some of them lose some of them win and i think that's all of us and i think again just that idea where hoddle and hoddle is the best uh but take some profits treat yourself nice pay off your bills get out of debt these things weigh on you sell one percent sell ten percent don't sell it all um but take those ideas where you're saying hey maybe if i took a little bit off the board here i could have a nice weekend or i could do something like that do something for yourself and um shout out to starship in the chat he's been watching for a long time says it was the first bitcoin show he saw his friend says you were real for many cycles again good work folks and uh yeah maybe share this uh show to someone else that you think might enjoy it someone who likes long-form content with no advertisements and uh nobody really plug in things or working for big exchanges or big companies or anything like that so uh stick with us here we'll be back again next week uh give us a thumbs up and subscribe down below until next time bye bye bye bye