The Bitcoin Group The American Original for over the last ten years the sharpest Satoshi's the best Bitcoins the hardest cryptocurrency talk we'd like to welcome our panelists Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page Hello good party everybody Josh Egala from the standard dot IO Best week ever Ben Arck from Ellen Bitt Hello everyone happy Nostano Vemper four years ago, Nostia was born And I'm Thomas Hunt from the world crypto network moving on to issue one issue one Trump's win ignites a crypto frenzy that says this Bitcoin to a record high Black rock fund powers US Bitcoin ETF. So let's see. Let's just talk about the Trump things to Trump won Go to the issue here we go Victoria Jones Trump won they say it's good for Bitcoin. They say he's going to clarify regulation. It's going to be good for Bitcoin because they paid him I guess What do you think? Yeah, well I mean I think I've mentioned a few times on this show that You know Bitcoin is designed to disrupt politics. So you know everyone getting excited about what what Trump is or isn't going to do seems like a huge fallacy to me I mean really what matters at the end of the day is how many people adopt the technology because once that happens it's game over for the politicians You know worries me so much is that people on both sides of political spectrum are still so engaged and wedded to the process as it already exists I mean it's actually the process that's the problem. It doesn't matter, you know which person you you put in I mean they're both going to make regulations One might be slightly better than the other but it all depends on your perspective. You know there are lots of people who are against who are against crypto who will see that what Donald Trump is doing is a bad thing. But you know from our perspective as Bitcoiners you know what we really need to be focusing on is making the technology adaptable so that businesses can use it and individuals can use it you know once it's a form of technology and money that circulates in the economy that's what completely changes history and changes the way in which are daily lives work so that's the point that I'm waiting for. I don't trust politicians regardless of what they seem to be doing or they don't doing more often than not they'll promise you the world before they're elected and then once they're elected it's a completely different story So yeah I mean I just I'm not part of the political circle at all you know I'm in Bitcoin because I want something I want a technology that disrupts all of it because I think the entire system as it exists is bad for everybody So yeah I'm not particularly impressed by what Donald Trump says he is or isn't going to do regarding crypto I'm just more interested in you know how the technology is developing and how we can get it out to as many people as possible as soon as possible because I think that's what will really make a difference. And if we do go back to what he has said about Bitcoin what he's claimed he's going to do he said some pretty radical un Bitcoin things things like all Bitcoin should be mined inside of the US the US government should own Bitcoin giving them power and potentially control if one day they decide to sell that Bitcoin he said that things that are confiscated from the government should be sold and that money then taken from the Justice Department which is going to be a tough sell. He's also said he's going to free Ross I'm going to talk more on that so it's very difficult to see now if he actually does any of the things that he said. Josh Shagalla Trump won what do you think? It's great I think there's some very very interesting things that are already happening I mean obviously what I found fascinating is that the markets were already picking the winner before even even the prediction markets were. So because Bitcoin is a is an even wider market it's kind of a quick but it's kind of a prediction market so I found that fascinating watching the price determine the outcome of the election way before everything else as it started to go up it's not as consequential for a trader I guess because if it goes up and you're buying it up you're buying it and you get to hold it anyway but. But if Harris came in it would have gone down and you know they would still held Bitcoin so we've gone back up eventually but there are certain aspects to to transpolices which I find fascinating for instance stock a strategic stock pile of Bitcoin is really interesting it's one of these things where I mean I've always said you know governments shouldn't really hold it. But I know what that would do for the price so you know I'm not going to say no do what you want it's if America built started built a strategic stock pile of Bitcoin it's still prices because every other country will do the same there's just no way around it you follow you know you follow the leader or you'll be swallowed by the leader. The other thing is that Gary Gensler can write off just get let that door hit you on the way out as well like let it hit you silly old penis looking man. So yeah it's all good news for crypto I think like Victoria said politics of politics people are going to get in the way people are going to do things people are going to change their mind or lie we never know but the signal the signal is pretty strong here that it's a that it's strong that is good and the markets reacting to that I'm really happy. I think we had been arc with us but he seems to have disappeared. Man you there what do you think Ben Trump victorious go ahead yeah I think I agree with Victoria like we're here to make them superfluous the politicians and the centralized forces of power in this world and stripped out from them over things like money production and other things they can have power over as well. Trump's a wild card and it could go one way or the other and I think that's the most worry something is I get the vote again status quo but I yeah I do worry about I do worry about obviously he's very unpredictable and that can be dangerous. So when it comes to the Bitcoin price I think there's a lot of Bitcoin is I think there's a people he doesn't technically he's he's not a brilliant guy obviously when you see talk about Bitcoin. He gets a lot of his advice on the technical issues from his sons I think just kind of think Bitcoin's cool but he has more recently talked a lot about shit coining so I my back would be on him. Shit coining over Bitcoining probably this it is there is a likelihood that he they will the US will make a strategic stock out of Bitcoin and that will be good for the Bitcoin price I guess but yeah it's it's I'm not pinning my hopes on him helping Bitcoin in any way and like you say if he has it's kind of these delusional ideas if if how Bitcoin should work in that Bitcoin should be made in just the US. I kind of feel that he'll probably shit coin and then other countries might be drawn towards Bitcoin because of that but I hope that Josh is right on the strategic stock pile and we're you know a lot of the I don't know I suppose the the positive momentum which people want to happen via Trump being elected on Bitcoin is really in the hands of his bratty sons and whatever they tell their dad to do I guess. So we'll see. It will be interesting to see what happens with Trump's crypto project world liberty financial as he launches his own coin by think we're going to talk about that in a later issue for now obviously the price of Bitcoin and several altcoins has gone crazy completely gangbusters but we'll now turn to the Bitcoin predictor ball to find out the future of Bitcoin exit question. Victoria will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. Well Bitcoin traditionally does very well at this time of year and obviously there's a lot of momentum for for the price at the moment sometimes when it gets extended it's time for a pullback but you know maybe the momentum could continue for another week so I'll say higher. Josh a call higher or lower. Yeah yeah much higher it's going to keep going this week. My hair retrace might maybe there's a retrace but like the average is going to get a choose one or the other higher or lower jobs all right all right we've got up I would I would say it's going to it's going to build a floor so it's going to sit around this price for the next week and then from then on it's up. Push the worst of all possible choices been arc higher or lower higher yeah yeah I'm going to ask the ball the ball would never push it would never say one thing and not the other will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week. Ask again later ask again later the ball has pushed moving on to issue two it's very related to issue one black rock fund powers US Bitcoin ETFs to a record daily inflow a net 1.3 billion dollars was poured into the group of one dozen ETFs the pro crypto Trump election took Bitcoin to a record high. Let's go to Josh to go what do you think about the ETFs and the regulated or already regulated Bitcoin industry and how they're benefiting even though Trump's not in office for another 70 days or so. Yeah I think it's really really important in these ball markets as we've gone past this harvining because the main place we where ETFs would be getting Bitcoin is directly from miners and it's very very important that the industry not the regulators because the regulators are stupid that the industry keeps an eye on these ETFs to make sure they're not going to fraction reserve because it's going to get trickier and trickier and trickier. So we're going to find fresh Bitcoin or Bitcoin at all enough of it to satiate that's a man that these ETFs are capable of exploring so yeah we as a community just like in the past have been very, very vocal if mining pool has gone close to 51 and started screaming I mean that we don't generally get it. We do that much anymore there are niche groups that do but we as a community need to need to figure out these wallets these dress someone already has and watch them closely and see make sure that they're not below fractional because yeah or it's frightening if they do. This is a big moment for the potential re-hypothication of Bitcoin right Josh you can never know when the price of Bitcoin is going to go up sure many thought the election could go this way but it could win that way as well the price could have changed even if it did go this way but to see it happen and if you were sitting there thinking your coin base or I bit you're like well we're holding 90% we're holding 95% will be fine and to see it go up 20% could be a huge problem if they have to go out and buy those Bitcoin on the open market. If the act of them buying those Bitcoin then drives up the price further they could never get back to whole and they could have an ongoing hole in their books that they could never fill right yeah yeah and and they probably are you know they'll wingle they'll manipulate their way and turn regulators for them so that's then say no it's fine to be infracional reserved it's actually legal for us just us and that's not going to be a big deal. Yeah this is where it gets scary and and fractional reserve actually isn't isn't the worst thing in that moment because no one even knows where it goes wrong is if the price hours and people start to run and there's a run on the banks or the run on the ETF so that's when everything is fed and people lose their shirts. This is also one of the reasons that many people choose to just hoddle their Bitcoin you never know when this 20% day comes at you and you're you're surfing along and you're selling this and buying that and going there all of a sudden it happens if you're out of the market on that one or two days you miss the entire up pretty much right. Yeah yeah yeah this is a hoddle hoddle hoddle. Let's go to Ben Arck what do you think about the ETFs perhaps holding all the Bitcoin and then seeing huge inflows from the investing market. Yeah it's not it's not good and of course there's the worry that they end up freshly reserving but it's just a problem we're going to have to overcome I think people will overcome with that they will have that experience of there will be some of these ETFs where there is a hold in their box. And there'll be some big scandal and then more and more they'll realize this thing isn't that hard to hold themselves and they'll just hold themselves but yeah the institutional investors are. It's one of the things we wanted to happen and then when it happened there was all these unknowns which we hadn't really thought through where it wasn't necessarily a good thing. The ETFs being involved and the amount of power and they suddenly have within our Bitcoin ecosystem and the Michael sailors of this world who then go into television represent Bitcoin this way or the other way. So yeah it's just going to watch it play out. I'm going to get stung too much and it's yes only going to ramp up like the world certainly working off to Bitcoin and they want it investors want it I'm seeing it it because we're doing a raise for Alan Betts Inc and I'm just seeing all these VC funds suddenly switching to wanting to have Bitcoin and lightning companies on that portfolios which is great for the Bitcoin ecosystem. But yeah there's a lot of money suddenly turning its eye to Bitcoin and that they need ways in which to invest in it and the pension funds and whatever else so they don't have a choice they have to use these ETFs so I mean they are regulated and they are you know I know hopefully they'll not have a fractional account but you know. And that's why for many years Bitcoiners have argued that they should have these things that they should have Bitcoin connected to the financial markets so that great inflows of capital could flow into Bitcoin we're seeing it now first with the ETFs then potentially if there is a United States stockpile of Bitcoin as Josh was talking about earlier every time they buy Bitcoin they would get less Bitcoin for their money. The first billion would always be the best buy and we would see this with other companies and other countries continuing to drive up the price of Bitcoin but leading to more Bitcoin held by these institutions which aren't going to use it aren't going to send it around so it is interesting if Bitcoin succeeds by becoming value valuable or if it succeeds by being sent around and used as a protocol as a currency. Victoria Jones what do you think about the ETFs huge celebrations after the Trump win. Yeah well I mean I've always had my issues with the ETFs I mean ultimately you're talking about two different rule sets you know you've got the rule sets that are programmed into the software and you have the rule sets that are programmed into the legislation and ultimately the two rule sets are incompatible it doesn't matter how much you regulate it at some point they're going to come into conflict and something disastrous is going to happen. So that's my prediction I don't know when it's going to happen but it is going to happen at some point you know whether or not it's about these ETFs having some kind of reserve account that gets broken over the fact that you know you can't create more Bitcoin when you need it to and you know something breaks in the financial system and someone's been cooking the books which has been known to happen not infrequently you know suddenly you know the tide goes out and everyone sees who's naked and at that point you know all the time you know you're going to be like although the people who've managed to hold onto the onto their Bitcoin personally will have made the better decision it's going to affect the price of Bitcoin for everybody because it will have that will have a massive impact on the price temporarily. You know but after that I think once the system is broken you know if by then we've got it circulating in the economy we've got a foundation on which society can rebuild itself but I don't think it's going to be a comfortable transition. So you know that's what I see happening with the dynamics and the way in which the stage is being set. You know watch out you know I think Bitcoin is a great thing but the way in which it's being set up and I think you know the introduction of the ETFs has definitely created a greater potential for chaos which does worry me. Yes it's more money larger bets more excitement more potential for the price to go up but also more potential for the price to go down and it'll be really funny if one day the government bands Bitcoin and suddenly these banks have all this Bitcoin on their ballot sheets that they suddenly have to sell at bargain prices in a fire sell. Because the government changes their mind on this thing that they really don't understand that they think is a store value but is actually many other things in disguise. Let's keep moving to issue three kind of back to the first topic though there's some opinion pieces over at Bitcoin magazine we'd like to talk about one by Shinobi says Trump is not Bitcoin's savior. Shinobi claims that Trump is not going to be a good thing for Bitcoin that he will continue the same malicious path of regulation that has been followed under Biden. There's also another opinion piece from Aaron van Weardham that says Trump's Trump coin is about as revolutionary as one coin describing how the new Trump world liberty financial coin is not so much a coin as an IOU that someday in the future you will be given a coin. As it is an IOU you currently cannot send around the Trump coin and you cannot buy and sell the Trump coins. It's very interesting. There's also been some discussions about Ross Olbrecht but let's start with just these two opinion pieces Ben Arck what do you think about Bitcoin magazine first I applaud them for having opinion pieces that I don't think they agree with and for putting out this thoughtful information but what do you think Ben? Yeah I think they've done that for many years actually Bitcoin magazine that they've always allowed space for opinion piece of which they might not agree with. I mean I myself have been published in a couple of articles on Bitcoin magazine and I know it's very much the bipolar opposite of what the management would agree with but they have published it so that's great. Aaron's a great dude and well done from stepping up and right about it. It is like one coin it's a shit coin grab. The Trump's like number one mode of a in back there is increasing his own stack for him and his family it always has been or maybe even just for himself to be honest and you look at any of the operations he's done it's always there's always been this like sideline hustle for him to be a way to try and capture some value. I do think he's going to shit coin shit coin pretty hard and it is equivalent to one coin the technology stacks not there hopefully that you know the inner workings of the US government will prevent him from launching this thing is a possible you know solution for medium of exchange in the US like some sort of you know. It's a good way to regulate and allow medium of exchange but who knows you ask to just become like the biggest shit coin cesspit known by him pushing Trump coin but yeah well done Aaron always enjoy his articles and I think some wild card we don't know either he'll ditch it and he'll get some actual expert advice and I'll say yeah just this thing's not going to go well like look at all these previous examples we've gone history or he'll persevere with it continue with it. Let's hope we just do that again a lot of it probably just rests on the technical advice he gets from his sons and then hopefully now the you know inner workings of government that I'll have some saying on his decision making in that area. Given the current system and it's impossible to say if that will stay or not if project twenty twenty five is implemented it seems like the government would likely allow Trump and specifically his sons to go forward with the world liberty financial coin and the problem would come afterwards when you have the losses if people lost lots of money in their lawsuits that's when I think they would face accountability but they would probably allow them to do it and this permissiveness would be further spread. By the idea that these are the president's sons this is the president's sons business. I mean I guess it's yeah it's it's like inevitable that will hit a point where some president or prime minister or king or queen or she going to check when hard and of sons but you know ultimately it's him and we've just kind of hit that point where you know our little ecosystem. Just got more more kind of like influential people keep shit going to know we've got to the point where let's go leaders are going to start shit pointing out. Well technically and I'm sure legally and I'm sure that's the point he's just an advisor on the project it may sound like Trump coin but he's a listed advisor his sons are advisors so on and so forth there's clearly a legal protection he's also sold NFTs he's sold gold and sneakers. I mean he sold magical $100,000 watches. Yeah good good good I mean it's nice that you're wearing one of his watches a good a good symptom of this would be possibly that he loses some of his fan base because they get they get repulsed or they get screwed by the the crappy technology who buy into it because you know the die hot Trump supporters will buy into it. So yeah that might that might be self aligning to Trump coin I do think you're going to see a lot of angry tech tech messages tech support I can't buy I can't sell I'm locked out of my account and so forth but I don't know if that will even bring them over I will have to see Victoria Jones what do you think about the Trump articles presented by Bitcoin magazine and the potential for world Liberty financial a K a Trump coin. Yeah I predict Trump coins destined to become the new Confederate dollar and we all know how that turned out so yeah I mean apparently 65% of the coin is already reserved for developers and people of interest I mean you know you only base education in economics know it's you know it's nothing like Bitcoin anyone who's persuaded otherwise clearly needs to know what it is. Clearly needs some education so yeah I am not terribly impressed that they even think that they can pull it off really but you know people are going to try since 2017 how long's it been now seven years. And you know people are still pulling that game even though that didn't end particularly well so I guess you know until everyone's been through that cycle you know and no one's fooled by it anymore it's going to be a similar story over and over again and the world crypto network will be here to remind everybody of that fact I want them what they're getting into. It does say in addition to the 65% pre-mind that they've also had a very disappointing sell so far they only have a 14 million dollar market cap coin similar to projects at Aaron lists like Peacoboss or Boba Opa I'd never heard of them either so they did have a disappointing sell but similar to the Trump NFT project this project is not necessarily marketed crypto people certainly not marketed it. So I think people who watch this channel and the NFTs the sneakers the watches pretty much everything he sold recently has done very well in the initial sales if sales is your only brawmater for quality Josh the goal of what do you think about the Bitcoin magazine putting out some interesting articles and the possibility of world liberty financial. I think it's always really enjoyed Aaron's articles he's a good friend as well you know obviously but he you know and I think he brings up a really important point is that these sorts of projects if then like anybody that puts their name and a lot of people that are influential stuff are from this problem. Specifically actually it's the worst in the crypto industry because if you're an influencer in the crypto industry you have to be sponsored by someone or you have to push some projects because you need to earn a buck and you inevitably do that badly because some of these projects fail or a lot of them like any startup. And this is a technology it's not looking good with this I mean this is and this is the pinnacle of that concept of a high profile person endorsing some project or aligning themselves very closely with it whether it's his family and then ultimately Trump. So sorry dogs going crazy. Yeah it's not good because yeah like the panel said as soon as it goes it's all good on the way up people don't care about not being on transfer but on the way down that's when it looks when it really starts to struggle so I don't like it I know you know it's it's not good it's not good to do but it is what it is you know it's a technology the technology is out of the bag people are going to make things people are going to break things people are going to scan people. Who knows I think it's too early to call let's see what happens. We see with the big coin adoption the people are getting why is there on the to the world of pukoyne's. So yeah I was always quite skeptical of that stance of people get burned and I learned not to touch the flame again but we've seen it you know we've seen on the show we've seen the general populace become more a suite of more aware of the next scam which is coming along maybe that's why it's got such a low coin market cap. I think you might be working on his next indictment which is being complicit in watch straight watch straight being some shit coin as a president so we'll look forward to him being I don't know died on that when he finally leaves. And I think that that blends well into the exit question Ben Trump sold other things like sneakers or NFTs these are mostly deliverables after you receive the item the transaction is over creating an exchange creating his own coin. This might be a larger thing to take on the exit question is if Trump could have seen the future and known that he was going to win do you think he would have created world liberty financial coin Josh needs to be bouncing up and down it's got a Victoria Jones do you think he would have done it anyway. Oh absolutely. Just for the money no concerns on the potential legal ramifications. Yeah absolutely I don't I I I given everything else that he's dealing with I think it's just a blip on the radar isn't it really. It is just another business he signs his name does a couple videos goes back to whatever he's doing it's a not a obviously he doesn't have to do the technical parts. Ben are do you think he would have done it if he knew he was going to win what he the created world liberty financial yeah he'd probably pushed it more I completely agree with Victoria I don't think I don't think he would have crossed his mind not to do it worrying about some you know PR issues with it I'm sure he would have done it and pushed even more knowing that he's going to become president. I tell you why it's a little sideline I tell you what I did watch this week which is fantastic was the the apprentice the film about Trump and his relationship with that coin lawyer that was really great if anyone hasn't seen that you should totally go party and watch it is really interesting because it yeah a lot of his kind of he thought so I think came from that. That lawyer he had early on but a side topic just while we're talking about Trump I just thought it was a very film. Yeah I'm really interested to watch it I'm disappointed it didn't come out sooner I don't know that anything could have changed it but I was supposed to really psychological take down of like how his character was built because he meets in case you guys didn't know in the in the history and this isn't negative or positive it's history he meets Roy Cohen who was McCarthy's number two man on the McCarthy hearings and he's an attorney and he's a very strong bold attorney says you know lie lie lie denied denied deny that kind of thing. And it's kind of how his character is built and I don't know that would matter if people could have seen his character but I'm interested. That's exactly what I thought when I watched I thought I wish to succumb a month earlier because that connection with him because Roy Cohen I mean I don't want to sideline too much but Roy Cohen he was like the precursor to Epstein ultimately he was the one who's like he was a blackmailing all these political leaders all these like votes those which he gathered with them sleeping with underage people and stuff which he was you know. Making happened so he's a very dodgy guy in the 70s 80s in New York and Trump was very well connected with him and yeah he's a lot it's a real good sort of psychological breakdown of how. Trump was that relationship that he was the apprentice of Roy Cohen and and I want to watch that I thought the exact same thing I thought I wish this had come out a month earlier because it's a real out of them. Actually there was part of it which made me sympathize a little bit with Trump earlier on in the film so it's it's not even compiast or anything it's it's good good stuff anyway sorry. All right let's get back to topic Josh if Trump had known he was going to become president do you think he would have launched world liberty financial anyway and again we're talking before the potential scandals like we're just kind of assuming it's going to lead to that go ahead. I mean I don't want to be media bias here like he didn't launch anything he trusts his sons and he's like oh son yes you're very you know he has full faith in his sons that they're at and he's not technical like Ben said so he would have just said oh well they're building something good I'm going to endorse it and then he's gone out and said yeah this is great whatever so. You know just to outline that part but yeah I mean if he didn't become president he would have done this as well I think you know his sons would have said hey dad you know he's the the most famous person in the world so I don't like why wouldn't you use that to launch products or services or things that you but you know by people you believe it. The only thing I worry about is his previous projects like I said are more direct if you buy Trump's stake you get a stake if you buy Trump NFT you get an NFT this is just a much more complex project if we really want to say he's kind of launching a crypto exchange he's kind of launching a currency or a security or a commodity or whatever we're going to properly label that thing it just seems like a bigger take I would give me some pause but that's just me. I mean what I like about it is sorry good. I'm going to say you know to be fair if you accused a corporate director of saying well you know his sons you know he didn't really know what his employees were doing I mean it wouldn't wash really I mean company directors get police for that all the time as the company director you're meant to be responsible you're meant to be having some kind of understanding of what your minions are doing so I don't know what you're doing. I don't think I don't think he can get away with the argument really. No one thinks he's the technological lead on this or that he's reading the white papers or that he really has a strong involvement and but at the same time when he when they read about they're like oh it's Trump coin or oh he's making the speech for the coin there is the implication of strong involvement which will likely come up in the potential lawsuits when people say I invested because I believed in this person and I believed he's not going to be a real person. And I believed he'd be involved day to day operations like like it comes to his desk you know and he checks everything all those celebrities with FTX you know is it yes they get into trouble and they didn't understand it you know they had to take the flag for it I don't think Trump gets a pass on that at all. In fact I think it's worse to give him that ski so he doesn't understand it's just like well you should at least understand the basics or understand the implications if it's something you don't understand you at least do some homework on it I think just saying well his son's a response where he doesn't know what's going on yeah well I hate to play I hate to play the other side of this but to be fair to Trump and to be the devil's advocate here literally the FTX disaster showed us the collapse of due diligence people who trusted these major firms to look at the look behind Sam to look at the accounting structure to look at the HR structure to look at the details of what they were doing at FTX there was no details there was no due diligence and these are the greatest investors in the world and mainly what it seems like is after the first big firm went and I'm not even naming names here they just followed every other big firm. So I think that's very big. But can Trump play Fortnite while pitching this that's what you want to ask. I don't know it I don't think it worked with the democrats had a of C play walls on twitch and they played madden and such I haven't watched by here they're very bad madden players no one scored no one scored a point. But it is it is exciting all the things people are doing to do the new marketing to the younger generation the different podcasts and stuff there's also a line of thought that's going through where one of the big things that Trump did is he did go on every not even just right wing but just kind of YouTube podcasts you went on the guys that have the celtzer he went on Joe Rogan he went he went anywhere that would take him and that was a good strategy go ahead back to such a point as well like I hate the I hate the fact that you're right Josh about the prediction market stuff but you are right and prediction market so incredible things when you watch them when you watch that prediction market and him in come to come to the house kind of popped up when she was tagging alongside him and as soon as you start doing this long form podcasts. He just he just went up you know and then the camera house went down and it was it really resonated with with what I personally would have taken as the you know the zeitgeist of that period of Trump becoming more popular and it was just having the guts he wasn't even like the quality of what he was saying on those things it was just the fact that he would sit down and talk for two three hours on one of those podcasts he just gets away with a lot man he's he's like a fun fun fundamentally yeah so so go on Josh sorry I was going to send you good to you the fundamentally the problem was that come out I was running on the campaign of hate Trump that was it if you don't like it wasn't like I'm such a good candidate I'm brilliant because she was crap at talking she didn't when you see here talking for a little while as I say like it was just boring and annoying and and you know I hate to use the terms everyone does but words are ready. And it just became a notness and boring so you just switched off and she sounded stupid but you know Trump is a good talker you know and you can actually have an interesting conversation about whales and things in the year you know about other stuff and it's just and he's comically funny so it's just more likeable and that's I think fundamental it's it's made him more popular. He's himself like whereas like the biggest issue people have with with politics you don't really know who the politician is whereas is Trump is even if he's bad he is himself like he's just talking shit and you know and he's exposing his flaws as well and she should have just done it she should have gone on these long form podcasts and the Joe Rogan got wanted her on and she should have just been herself on a podcast and she would have had a better chance of winning. But maybe this is hopefully this is hopefully this will encourage other politicians in the future to be more transparent and do these. Well because it's good when you sit down listen some of two three two three hours you get more of a handle on who they are. I think we also need to take an account that she had because of the Biden situation one of the shortest campaigns in history about 90 days and that Trump has been a popular public figure for 30 or 40 years it's like. Kamala had to run against john Travolta is like everyone knows john Travolta you know he's in Greece he's in Saturday night fever like she's an attorney he's a nationally known movie star so I think that's a little tough and Josh got to watch out there I'm not sure she I mean obviously she's not the Trump communicator whatever. But I do see some like hints of idiocracy here sleeping in that you know when she speaks it's word salad and confusing but when Trump speaks in the new language it's easy to understand I think we're getting dumber here. But she can't you can't worry about it but she's back she back she also like every politician she backpedaled on. And so I think it's like it's a political belief or whatever just to get votes or to further political career so you just can't this is this is like it's an anti politician vote isn't it like the people who vote for Trump. And I think that's also an anti intellectual vote and anti science vote it starts to get a little unclear what we're really after I do agree Ben she did kind of weasel on some of her her positions when she was a district attorney coming up. And so there were some cases like that that I would give you go ahead Josh had more on this. Yeah I mean it's just the whole thing he's obviously that like the amount of for me the amount of lies that the media spread constantly and the hyperbole about him being the next Hitler fascist stuff all this stuff is just over the top and people just got sick of hearing. And they got sick of being told that they're Hitlerian or that they're fascistic for doing so I mean and and misogynist I said to misogynist first thing he does is you know put a woman as the chief of staff. Oh what a misogynist. All of it is just such hyperbole and I mean time will tell let's see let's see it's four years just started. I'm hopeful I try to be optimistic about these things even if Kamala got in I'll be like oh hopeful but you know I'm glad like already have us is saying we want to stop the war. Already things happen he's not even president yet so it's it's good. I wish I could say I wish I could say Josh that he was not Hitler but the first speech that he's made so far and his first act he said that there's an unlimited blank check for the rounding up the immigrants program. So I don't know what's going to happen and I hope for the best and obviously it's been really legal when you round up well when you round up you know millions of people put them in camps and send them back to governments and countries that don't want them places they've never lived in their lives. That's really turned out well in the past so I'm curious to see how it turns out but like you say we will have to see how it turns out and how it raises prices on vegetables and other things and if something rises up to pick those fruits and so on and so forth well I have to see how that goes. Let's go on to the next issue which is unfortunately also related to this we're just kind of talking about the predictions in the future obviously president elect Trump has made several speeches to bit corners he's made promises to bit corners allegedly according to a tweet he is pledged this to Ross Olberg's mother which I will remind you he did pledge at the end of his term last time that he would pardon Ross Olberg let's get down to it will president. elect Trump free Ross I ran a little poll on Twitter we got 57 votes 70% yes he will free Ross 30% no going to the other side for how fast it will happen similar amount of respondents 47 votes 25% believe it will happen in zero on the first day 34% believe it will happen within the first 30 days 17% believe it will happen in the first 100 days and the similar number from the other one about 23% believe it will never happen let's go to the panel Victoria Jones straight up will Donald Trump free Ross Olberg. I have no idea it could literally go either way and shock everybody so yeah I have no idea I think it would be a difficult thing for him to do unilaterally considering that Ross was put in jail through the court system you know unless he's I mean I know he might be president but you know how much power does he really have to override all of that and it's like I mean I remember the last time that he was elected he made all sorts of Trump made all sorts of promises about releasing the JFK files and there was lots and lots of talk about it but then it never happened. So I don't know really I he's also good game but I prefer to see and believe results so I'll be very interested to see if it happens. Now you're counting on the promise of a politician here right that's going to work out even just even just generic politician not even this specific politician even generic politician it would be hard to take and although many on this show are familiar with Ross Olberg in his background in the media and in the court system he was tried as a drug kingpin he was accused of attempted murder even though they didn't use that as part of his sentencing so it's not just as easy to say this guy was a boy scout who broke bad laws and allowed people to trade large amounts of cannabis without large amounts of violence. It would be great if we could say that if the case was clean but obviously the case is more complicated than that Ben Ark will Donald Trump free Ross Olberg. He's he has been in jail for quite a period now I'm not like I think you know I was all about free as an until more recently obviously but with the free rusting I was always very conflicted because I don't know he can't he's having seemed like a bit of an asshole. The way treated some of his like like chronic pain and some of the other happens in in silk road but he's been in jail a long time so it might not be political suicide when it comes to green him like he could arguably say the kids probably learn his lesson and we need you know his talents elsewhere and I did say that I was going to free him and so he could possibly do it. I was interested in your poll I was I was wondering whether because I was I was building some polling stuff for Noster and I was I was just thinking Josh like if they had to pay to vote on the poll and then if they won the poll they would get an equal share of the total amount would that be a prediction market Josh. Yeah you basically the winner wins the other side of it so you could so you could have it so like you could have a poll on Noster and like the same poll and it costs a thousand sets to enter and then if you are on the right if you answer correctly then when it happens you then get like the sum divided by the amount of people who voted on that thing that be cool. It has to be weighted time weighted as well because as you get closer to finality more people have more information so it's not fair to vote the last minute when you know that someone's going to win then at the beginning when you didn't know I knew anything. The poll is constantly adjusted by the buys and sells and like Josh said so when when Trump was up 70% on the prediction market if you were buying Kamala at 30 cents you would win that 70 cents from the other side whereas the Trump people with their 70% they were only going to win that 30% so your win is determined by how difficult the market is like Josh said when it got close to the end it was like 99% to one but there's still that chance if you bought that one percent. And the returns turn out wrong and they get new returns from this district in Philadelphia and it flips the whole election just like a football game at the very end 99% prediction can swing the other direction to 100% you could make an incredible buy so it's that that aspect of the prediction. But it would be cool wouldn't it's have like a paid poll prediction market just in a Noster thread just just about it. The more you can reduce the barriers to entry and make it easier for people to participate in prediction markets I think the better the markets will get the more people would enjoy them as a more smart money that you draw to the poll because the problem is if there's no smart money then the polls not going to be smart it's just a bunch of money. So yeah sorry just think about it and talking. But do we ask everybody are they going to free Ross Josh what did you do Josh? I talked to Lynn a few years back just before Trump like just after Trump considered the election or whatever the Biden got in. And she said he she had a good knowledge from inside is that he was this close to pardoning Trump and pardoning Ross. And unfortunately with the whole election scandal his whole team was like what I think it was stolen and then everything went all the focus went on that. So she she thinks there is a lot of people are here talking about like the first on day one there's no way on day one it traditionally presidents pardon people at the end of their terms. So if anything it'll happen at the end of this term which is another four years away. I see a very I think it'll be absolutely something that crosses his table and that he will probably do seen as that he wanted to last time. I don't know how much way to put on that but I think that he has enough people around him from the libertarian side of things and people that have been campaigning for Ross for a very long time. That you know including including to take Ramos Famy he made it one of his major running points while he was running. So yeah I think it'll happen but probably at the end of the term. I definitely agree Josh pardons usually come at the end of the term and I think that's an important thing to note here previously boy I would have liked it if he pardon Ross over a glass time. I do agree Josh I think he got very close and consider it's a kind of thing when you're at the end of your term you don't know what's going to happen next it doesn't really matter they usually pardon a lot of their aides and their friends a lot of people are believing that president Biden might pardon his son. I don't know that might happen but with this one he's he's promised so much he's promised that he will pardon him he's taken money from the cryptocurrency people he's met with the bros and everything he had the hamburger pub key. I really do believe there's an expectation that this pardon will come maybe in the first 30 days maybe in the first 100 days I think people would be pretty disappointed if they don't see it within the first 100 days I do disagree with them though I still think it is a very difficult pardon to explain publicly you have this guy that ran a drug market your brand is very law and order very strong hand you know kind of thing he's not exactly legalizing marijuana or anything else. So it is a very difficult pardon that could have a lot of stories like why is he pardoning this you know to the outside a drug lord go ahead then what they what they tend to if it's that kind of you know decision or whatever awesome promises made is he'll just make something with a bunch of other stuff so they'll be some and they'll do some Friday things and they'll just slip it in there all the every Ross. I will. Well we'll have to see and we'll definitely we'll keep following this issue here and you know for what's worth we're going to keep advocating that Ross should be freed I also agree with what Josh said he's been in there a while like we've punished this guy enough yes he was the first and they wanted to set an example of him and all that but I don't know that that examples worked I don't think a lot of people are like I'm not going to make a million dollar drug market because they caught up with me. I think a lot of people in other countries and other situations would gladly do that but let's keep moving move on to the next issue. Check out world crypto network we've got 4,000 and 59 videos and more you can check them out world crypto network dot com which apparently has a certificate issue that I'll try to get fixed this weekend I think I need to go somewhere and renew our certificate so apologies about that but check out world crypto network dot com YouTube or Twitter any of those places issue for hunt for bitcoins elusive creators Satoshi Nakamoto hits another dead and the BBC is disappointed with the news Satoshi Nakamoto who was charging I think it was 50 dollars to go to his press conference 100 dollars to ask questions if you spent 500 dollars you could meet with him personally there were very few people in the room with the BBC reporter and none of them seemed impressed with the new Satoshi allegedly named Stephen Mala and allegedly claiming to be the creator of Bitcoin Josh Shigalla we talk all the time about Satoshi doesn't matter anymore is an important the media obviously the major HBO documentary accusing our friend Peter Todd of being Satoshi everyone seems to have laughed off and doesn't seem serious about except for unfortunately the crazy people bothering our friend but still he might own or not he but Satoshi might own a billion bitcoins or a million bitcoins whatever it is Josh what do you think the search for Satoshi continues I understand the fascination but at the same time just whatever like how many important topics are there in this and how cool is the technology and what is the obsession I don't know it takes me about 30 milliseconds and I'm not saying this for any sort of racial profiling or anything like that but just if I read through what this guy wanted and read through his text you just know he's not Satoshi really quickly you know it's a grift and it's a grift because other people have managed to make money by saying there's a Toshi so of course other people are going to and so if anybody says there's a Toshi you first of all it's just right it off no unless someone signs the key with their name with a message I'm like I'm taking notice now everything else is nonsense while it is nice to see the media react negatively to him afterwards I agree with Josh I think they should have reacted negatively first they said I said oh you're Satoshi send us the result of this signature we'll check it on our computer they don't need to go to a meeting they don't need to because I heard about this that someone is saying oh there's a meeting there's going to be a new Satoshi I was like you just book a meeting now send out a press release claim your Satoshi and someone listens to you like I mean I can't do it. I could claim I'm Albert Einstein like I've just as much proof as this guy does that he's Satoshi that I'm Einstein and Einstein's been dead for 70 years or whatever I have no idea. It's just very hard to say why they're giving this initial credence which then could like Josh is saying create these potential cults of personality maybe not this guy but somebody else if he's really good at it and he's all set up for this could run another potential fake Satoshi on everyone. Let's go to Ben arc what do you think about Stephen Mala maybe he's your Satoshi think it's him like my mind was blown. No it's yeah it's fun it's fun I mean the BBC they they got to make up for the fact that they gave Craig writes such a platform when he said that he was Satoshi because they were the ones that he was you know he went on air with the BBC but it's funny with this more like I'm going to move the first bit coins which is technically impossible like that's probably technically impossible he can't move them they're not. Part of Satoshi's stash so it's not even possible to do such a thing so but he's yeah like just as a grifter kind of a bit of fun on the side BBC get to you know they get to be a little bit more skeptical which they they weren't skeptical enough when it came to Craig right. I want to meet the guy it be cool if you like a Satoshi conference and they just all this is to all the Satoshi's just on panels talking about this Satoshi it'd be sick we got enough of them now yeah yeah yeah that would be great. Great. Adam. Dorian. She knock him out and Craig right and then this new mala guy what a what a great panel that would be. It'd be so good you can ask all the same questions what was it like to invent Bitcoin. All have different answers let's go to Victoria Jones what do you think about the BBC they open the book on this new Satoshi and then they close the book right away it's almost seems unfair. Yeah reminds me of the a subs fable of the boy who cried wolf isn't it really I mean after a while I mean there was a load of drama when they discovered um Dorian Nakamoto because you know legitimately the US government was looking for whoever created Bitcoin they understood straight away you know it was actually illegal to create a new form of money in the UK when Bitcoin was first invented so they were on it straight away and the fact that so many people kind of go well you know. Bitcoin has no future because the government will shut it down it's like dude they tried to shut it down and they failed don't you get it but people forget those news stories and so you know it was a long time ago it seemed like a storm and a teacup then everyone forgot about the story and then all of a sudden Bitcoin took off and it's like the two stories weren't connected I mean human beings are just so they forget such you know such things especially when it's not important to them so. Yeah I think they've just been too many of these stories now and the thing is even if you found the right stotish the real stotish Nakamoto just I mean look at Peter Todd he's already he's already said he's had to get to hiding because he feels threatened the real stotish Nakamoto would be nuts to tell the world who they were I mean and I think most people understand that now and for Bitcoin is it's just not even relevant so yeah I don't think there's I don't know I'm sure. The news loves to find you know new stories I'm sure it'll be a continuous drama but I think a lot of people are getting a bit tired of it now they're kind of moved on they understand the situation and how it's not relevant and so yeah what else I think we just need to say new standards they need to present actual cryptographic proof like Josh is saying sign the sign the block move the key move the coins whatever it is actual on chain proof. Then you can have a meeting but they would do it yeah the real one wouldn't do it well or they'll do it in a private ceremony with a special laptop to fill get to fool Gavin but not to fool anyone else it's that magic trick you can never replicate it go ahead Josh I could you know I just wanted to say that Victoria spot on like you don't want to be exposed to and I wonder if you know this defamation laws right you can sue someone for defaming your character but I wonder if you can sue someone for like falsely calling you out and putting you in danger even though they're doing it for like a good thing like hey Peter Todd is Satoshi actually now Peter Todd's in danger that people will you know want a kidnap him or whatever else and it's true like there's been a bunch of kidnapings especially high profile very wealthy big quite is and it's not good it's you know it's not a good thing to be like hey I'm the richest guy in the world I just you know I think it's very much about the the intent of the person making the claim I'm sure the documentary people can probably say you know we're exploring ideas and our ideas led us to this so we made that claim other people have put out newspaper advertisements attacking people and saying they're guilty of crimes that's been a different kind of claim I think they were taken to court for that one I don't know that they'll be taken to court for the documentary you can't defame someone for saying they built something amazing I know but that's right it's like it's the opposite of the fame but you suck for doing that to my life now yeah there's a bit of that as well with the positive stereotypes about races where people don't they like the positive stereotype it's like a good thing yeah I don't know if you could still even saying that you invented Bitcoin I mean it's certainly a good thing in one way but like Josh said you know Peter's in hiding he's freaking out it's kind of bad in other ways so it does have that positive and negative to it I mean he's the he's the world's biggest troll in Bitcoin so I got help for like sympathy for the guy he's getting trolled he'll all wash over he'll all wash over that we just need to pull out enough fake satoshi's to shake the sun so Peter Todd probably organized this smaller guy he's like aided somebody I pay some money if you percent use satoshi well and it's the worst of all he knows man because in the Peter Todd situation one of the things you want to make very clear if you don't want people to think you're satoshi never say you're satoshi even if you're being facetious and it's a joke and you're like oh I'm just like satoshi or I could just like satoshi you know we're all satoshi like that kind of joking directly leads to the documentary and making the claim that Peter is satoshi I mean I have literally said Peter Todd is satoshi on this show before that documentary so you know I kind of think he's not a bad he's not a bad satoshi my favorite would be Dorian because Dorian's a thoroughly lovely bloke I'm spending a couple of hours with him once lovely man but yeah yeah Todd could be stoshy but yeah does a bad because he's the invisible man he could fade into the background on this thing and then you know God forbid 20 years whatever he passes away and he releases some kind of a dead man's letter and it comes out that I was satoshi the whole time and I fooled you fools haha yeah I just in the conversation because he started out when he was trying to like talk himself down and his technical expertise and after about two hours of talking to him I realized he was like a legit dude like a legit developer into telephony stuff and we were talking out over hardware things he exchanged email addresses and by the end of the conversation I walked away thinking that fucking do satoshi Dorian is satoshi with that we are there's also something where you want to believe you want to believe in satoshi especially if you've met the guy and hung out with him like there's like a nice old guy like Adam back like we've had dinner with Adam back and it's like I've had dinner with satoshi whoo that would be cool but probably not him probably not someone that we've met that would make very little sense as Victoria was saying but we've got ahead towards the end of the show so let's go to prediction or story of the week Victoria do you have a prediction or story of the week uh well my story of the week as I was in Italy last week it was half term over in the UK so yeah went over to visit the Vatican and the Colosseum and I went on the Amalfi coast and saw Pompein saw the Seavius it was a very active week back I've had a very busy summer it's been very difficult for me to get back on track with some projects my website but um I'm happy to say that after all this relaxing uh I've recouped my energy and I'm going to go so I'm working on some stuff and I'm working on some new videos and my next newsletters to come out so hopefully I'll have an announcement next time I'm on that sounds like a great time Italy is lovely uh Josh Tagalog prediction or story of the week go ahead uh yeah so we launched the V4 vaults with the standard which is really really great because now we're the first protocol where you keep your private keys you don't need to do it uh give any third party of private keys you create a smart vault in a contract you use that as collateral to borrow against zero percent interest but what we do differently is that that collateral can now be um sent to Dexas as liquidity sloshing back and forth and earning those trading fees all the while our contracts track the value of those positions and so you can still borrow against that value and um and so for the first time you can have your rat Bitcoin or anything else actually you continue holding the keys you've got full control no one else does um it earns those trading fees and um from sloshing back and forth on Dexas and you get the borrow against that value so it's it's really really cool um check it out we'd love for your feedback on these contracts obviously it's an EVM thing it's on Arbitram so if you you know if you're a hard-core Bitcoin you're not going to want to try EVM stuff but if you you know do like to try out these things uh give it a go it's um we'd love to your feed love to get your feedback now that's at the standard.io very cool too Josh sounds great to the to the the Sun School yeah how how does it how do they they um not Ruppel is it like time locked or do you keep an eye on the the keys to make sure they're not setting the Bitcoin out so basically the smart the smart contract sends uh sends these things into um into the the uni swap contract and so the smart contract holds the keys and you hold the key to that smart contract so uh nobody else can touch that smart contract it's been audited and stuff like that so you can see that and um and the the uni swap liquidity falls work in the fact that when someone buys you just end up with the other asset for a little bit and then that asset is placed in the right near the spread and it just keeps going back and forth and then when you pull that the liquidity out it just removes it from the uni swap pulls back into your contract into your smart contract and you can put it back in your minimise if that makes any sense yeah i mean it's yes yeah it's wild that's not that complicated hard but that's cool as fuck yeah but i mean what i like most this what sort of frustrates me with hard-core Bitcoin Maxis is um you know we all go on about take your keys off of exchanges off of centralised exchanges you know it's super important and what what's you know the fact that people manage to make these liquidity pools and and working dexas working decentralized exchanges it is such a great big move towards getting rid of centralised exchanges yeah it's you know i don't know maybe there are some on Bitcoin right now but the fact that this stuff works and yeah it might not be super decentralized you know that's arguable with the theorem super decentralized whatever but it's more decentralized than um cracker or coin base or anything like that so it's a step in the right direction and I love the fact that you can uh permissionlessly just interact with these smart contracts that from Uniswap and be able to put on top of that and build these these things so now you can have collateral actually so it's almost like you've got negative interest rate when you're using the standard because you're earning a yield from your collateral while you borrow against that collateral at 0% interest and yeah it's it's fascinating it's pretty nice amazing stuff well done it's great to like i mean nice to great you have having you working in that i mean obviously that world is like full of scanners and shit coins and people but there are legitimately people like you who really know what you're doing or Josh from other f**king glass books to galley you know like you're the person you people want to be working on on on this DeFi stuff um so now i wish i could like yeah dedicate more time to like understanding it but um sounds really good no well we we need your brain sitting there on uh doing all this amazing stuff you're doing in Maryland bits i hate this to be a you know kissing session here but um what you what you've achieved with that and and Noster is sensational just i love the idea of prediction markets in Noster bring it on i just the fact that you can have a proper poll yeah because a poll just anytime you see a poll on on on on x it's just slucky because you know it's just an echo chamber whereas if they that was a true prediction market people would think twice and go oh wow and the smartest person who actually has the inside information we're going i can make it pretty petty right now but just because i know the truth so it stacks the odds in the opposite direction it's just way better yeah it's awesome yeah it's the taller isn't it's like just getting the right tooling um no i got a ben ben arc for a predictionary story of the week go ahead ben story of the week was the the the the formation of prediction market polls on the world crypto network which will change the world and they'll be all over Noster and it'll be as easy as sending a zap you'll just click yes i want to place up my poll zap boom done and then if you're lucky and you you know you hit the right answer then uh when uh your oracles says yeah that thing happens then it'll uh it'll pay you um but on bitcoin as man like Josh the the amount of bitcoiners with the cash stuff like they they they give this e-cash thing a free pass which is uh it's like centralize you're giving someone your bitcoin and there just this random centralized body is giving you something they claim is worth bitcoin um they you know they they they thought the talk when it comes to decentralize everything but often with the e-cash stuff i'm like just use the the area i'm just use banana like the better solutions for what you're trying to achieve they exist and yeah okay they're not bitcoin but they're far more decentralized than this e-cash that you're playing around with and give them processes yeah totally yeah yeah anyway um so yeah perfect is the enemy of good perfect is the enemy of good perfect is the enemy of good yeah absolutely like it's a thing there's no that's thing that's perfect and you've got this good thing that's pretty decentralized and you can use it yeah for what you want to use it for yeah totally yeah um uh yeah so yeah story of the week is that i guess um i know also that we're just plowing with poor grinding card trying to get Ellen bits to v1 that should be in the next month v1 it's exciting stuff and that's it really wow but um i really want to check out the standard stuff too gonna look it up i'll run with it hopefully everyone's gone now because i'm gonna talk it kind of seems like the world is a jenga game and all the pieces are connected and there's consequences and things that you don't know are going to happen when you knock those towers over uh we've seen in the past with Mao se dung during the four pest campaigns when they tried to eliminate the sparrows they failed to take care of the crops leading to the great chinese famine which was not intentionally caused by Mao but did lead to the killing of 20 to 30 million people we saw during the coronavirus crisis that 1.2 million Americans died and there are currently 37 million people living in Ukraine down from a recent high of 44 million almost a 10 percent decrease already global warming will likely continue this is Miami Beach underwater this is Boston underwater this is Venice Beach California underwater and here's the home of the San Francisco 49er or San Francisco giants underwater so not all bad things but that will continue but uh and finally a poem uh to think about the future by the great acdc released in 1981 stand up and be counted for what you are about to receive we are the dealers we'll give you everything you need hail hail to the good times because rock has got the right of way we ain't no legend ain't no cause we're just living for today for those about to rock we salute you for those about to rock we salute you we rock it dawn on the front line like a bolt out of the blue the sky's a light with a guitar bite heads will rock and heads will roll and rock tonight thanks to everybody for joining be sure to give us a thumbs up and subscribe down below until next time bye bye