music The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest satosis, the best bitcoins, the hardest crypto currency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Josh E. Gala from thestander.io. Hi there folks. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one, issue one Bitcoin flounders ahead of Friday Jobs report that might push the Fed to slash rates by 50 basis points. The US Central Bank is indicated it will begin cutting the Fed funds rate at its mid-September meeting, but the size and speed of the easing cycle is up for debate. Josh E. Gala, the price of Bitcoin and Ethereum and other crypto currencies are down. Are they going down further? What do you think about the Fed Jobs report and the rates? Yeah, I don't know how much it has to play with the Bitcoin price. I think everyone looks for a reason, but it's generally in one way. Of course, it is tied to the general stock market now because of the ETFs. So there is a dog wagging the tail sort of scenario and the tail wagging the dog also. So it's just the ratio between how much is wagging each. And at this stage, it does, you can see a correlation, obviously, but I think there's a vast majority of that could also be psychological in terms of the traders. But because the whole point of Bitcoin was as a hedge to the mainstream system of Fiat. And so if that system goes down, of course, you'll see a collapse, just like you'll see a collapse in gold and everything else in the moment, in that very moment. But then after that moment has passed, you'll see a rising gold while the Fiat collapses further or a rising Bitcoin. And so it's always interesting trying to correlate these things. But yeah, I mean, US job numbers, like 160,000 jobs in August. It doesn't really mean much. And I mean, if I was on the Harris Biden administration right now, I'd be doing everything possible to stimulate the economy before the election because it only plays to the hand of the other side if it falls even further. So people are screaming out for a rate cut, obviously. People want cheaper money. But they are the borrowers, they're the business, they're the people that want to buy mortgages. And borrow mortgages. And the rest are the savers, the ones that have savings, they don't, or the retirees, they generally suffer from a rate cut because that increases inflation. It increases the amount of money in circulation as money becomes cheaper again. It seemed like Bitcoin, since the happening was the surest, sure thing. All you had to do was buy Bitcoin, wait for the supply crunch, and then the price would go up. And even though we're looking at charts right now, this is not financial advice. When something's the surest, sure thing, and everyone believes it's going to the moon, of course it goes down. I think this is one of those fake outs when we look at it in the future, we're going to look back and we're going to say, yeah, remember we thought it was going down and then it turned completely around. I have no evidence to believe this. But that's what I think it's going to do. I think the people who are selling now are mainly selling their coins to these rich ETF buyers and these other institutions who are coming in and can buy on a longer timeline. Of course you've got to sell if you need to pay rent, credit card bills, food, restore your bathroom. But other than that, you got to hoddle as much as you can because I think it's going to go back up. I have no evidence to base this on. It just seems like it always goes up in the past. But it is certainly scary news from the Fed and the kind of thing that gets people ready to sell and to freak out. Josh, now you're going to, for the exit question, you're going to predict against the magic eight ball, the source of all truth in Bitcoin. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Oops. I don't know about next week. But my thesis is in the next two months leading into Christmas, we will start to see that turn around happen. I just don't know how long it's hard to tell. So I'm going to go sideways for a annoying fence, SIDA. A happy Christmas for Bitcoin. Let's see, Starship Schrodinger in the chat says next week higher, but going below 52. That would be quite a thing. I'm going to stick with being a permable. I just think it's always a good thing. I'm always confused when it goes down. I never understand what people sell, but that's always been the case. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? And it says on the line, my sources say no. My sources say no negativity from the magic eight ball. Moving on issue two, FTC issues warning about Bitcoin ATM scams. Here's how to protect yourself from time magazine. Of course, we've warned you about Bitcoin ATM scams here on the show many times discussing them in detail how the person gets you on the phone claims that your husband or significant other is missing. And the only way to get them back is by sending Bitcoin through this strange machine that you've never used before. The FTC said that 66 million in fraudulent losses in the first half of 2024 up from 12 million in the entire year of 2020. So the scams are going up in Bitcoin. We've also heard stories from the Atlantic magazine. We are big time now about telegram groups where users trade back and forth exciting information about what to buy. None of them saying just buy and hold Bitcoin. What do you think about these scams for Bitcoin finally going mainstream? Thomas Hunt. Well, we've talked about these before, my friend who had a convenience store in London actually had to unplug his machine to keep people from sending their money to the scammers. They were so convinced by the person on the phone. They're like, you're so and so has tax problems. We've captured them. We're not going to let them go unless you send $1,000 through this strange machine. And I think that's what everyone's going to do. So I'm not surprised to see this go wide. I am sad for the people that got scammed, but there's nothing we can do to protect them. This is happening because there's a better way to send money across the internet and that better way is Bitcoin. Once you've sent your Bitcoin, you can't cancel it and get it back. There's no central authority like American Express that you can call up and say, hey, sending my Bitcoin back, I made a mistake. And that's why it's a new avenue for scammers to take advantage of low information consumers who believe this information when they're fed it on the phone. And a lot of times it's older people. The person will do that classic scam. They made a mistake. They sent too much money to your account. And now the old new person has to send it back to you. But instead of having to pack it in a box and take it down to the shop, they just have to get the money out of one ATM, feed it into another ATM, send it across the internet. And we have a whole new avenue for scammers. Josh, what do you think about this? And also the telegram group, which isn't quite a scam, but all this investment advice, it just never ends. Yeah, it's phenomenal that people fall for it and it's really sad that people will fall for a scam and be told to stay on the phone while you go down to the Bitcoin ATM and that people will go, oh, okay. And I guess this is part of being part of the technocratic class. We can generally see through this stuff. And it's like the elderly that suffer from these scams the most because the elderly don't really understand that they get bamboos or they get bamboos or with techno babble and everything else. And it makes sense. There's an ATM. It's Bitcoin. It's real. The other, I mean, the thing is about this time magazine piece is that, and I haven't read the whole lot. I just read part of it. I'm not sure if it talks about because the vast majority of these scams also run through run through these gift cards. And so they, these scammers generally what they do is they say, you've got a massive tax bill. It's fine. The IRS will take Bitcoin. They'll also take wire transfer. They'll take Amazon debit card like Amazon cards. And people believe this. That's the saddest thing. It's so fantastic that the IRS is liber, liberaling up and taking Amazon debit cards. I think it's great. It's wild, right? And, and then taking it with, with someone with a like barely understandable English with an Indian accent or another part of it is, it's kind of exciting. And it's like the 24 TV show, you're being handled, right? You have a handler on the phone. And they're like, oh, what are you doing now? Where are you going? Don't hang up. Don't hang up. They'll kill your friend. They'll kill that poor woman. And all that. But yeah, it's really tragic for these people because you can see a lot of videos of the guys messing with the scammers. And they'll try to keep them on the line. And you see how great these people are talking. They're like, oh, Mrs. Johnson, you're like a grandmother to me. You're the sweetest woman. Please don't let me lose my job. I've got three children and a wife. I'll lose my job. Yeah. And they get the person emotionally into it and they send the money. Yeah, there's a great guy online called Kit Bogard. Kit Bogard, something like that. Maybe the chat knows. But hilarious, absolutely hilarious to some of this. But in one way, once you do listen to it, it is also kind of very, very sad. A, because you realize how many of these people, some of these YouTubers, they actually hack the scam operation and they put webcam, like they get onto their webcams or they get the database of victims and targets and stuff. And it's just unfortunate when you see how many people fall for this. But on the other side, it's absolutely hilarious to see them just dragging these scammers through the mud. And then on the third side of this coin, it's kind of sad that some of these scammers are just almost slaves that are being held by these mafia's and told to go through these scripts and basically do it. Otherwise, you know, I don't know what the consequences are, but I'm pretty sure it's bad. So it's, yeah, it's sad all around, all around terrible. That's funny. And that's the part that I find, Shoggy and Josh, that you can't really focus on until you know more about this is that people are working this like a job. They're showing up every day to the office and they're going through scripts about how to scan the stupid Americans and they're approving the scripts and they're, you know, A.B. testing this script and that script. And it's just a job. And like you were there with Josh with your coffee mug, same thing there. They're at the office, you know, another day at the office scam and the Americans or whatever. And you know, you feel for it because they don't have a lot of other options. They don't have other other choices. And in a way, the, you know, older people are, you know, they're available for this scam. They fit into there. They have low technology. They have a comparatively a lot of funds compared to these people. But once again, they don't just take 10% of the old person's funds and tell them to fix up their security. They take it all. They always take it all. So it is always sad. Actually, it becomes sad when it becomes part of the culture. I remember hearing that in Nigeria, one of the, one of the top hit songs in the top 10, I think it became like top three or something. Or even number one was a song about how you scam the dumb Westerner and, and that, you know, and the whole song is about how these scams work. And if, you know, if you're too dumb to fall for it, then you deserve to lose your money and all this stuff. And it's just so unfortunate, so terrible. But yeah, anyway, it's always nothing to do with Bitcoin. It's nothing to do with Bitcoin. That's the fact. It's always easy to do these scams until you're like, oh, what if that was my grandmother? What if that was my sister? You know, what if that was someone in my family that were robbing her money from? And it might seem, you know, juvenile, like, oh, they're just ripping off some old lady down the street. But this isn't on an industrial scale, people in offices. And once they're done ripping off one person, they just hang up, call up, and rip off someone else. So it just keeps going. And it's going to get worse, like with these large language models of being able to talk so well, and also this fake, you know, accents and being able to just, so it starts to scale out very, very quickly and, and, you know, to a true industrial scale. It's, it's very, very scary. And in fact, it's already so bad. Like you said, Thomas, most people actually have had somebody. If I talk to anybody and say, talk about scams, something pretty much everyone will say, I know someone who's been scammed or I've been scammed or my mom's been scammed, it happens so often that it's, it's almost, it's so tragic. It's so tragic how often it happens. And this is what really annoys me mostly about institutions like the SEC and such is that they sit there finding all these big companies. But when it comes to the amount of money that they take in from the government to basically stop people losing their money, there's, there's so many people losing their money from scams, so extraordinary amount of such an extraordinary amount of scams that it's so, and it would be so good to see actual education or that money being put to other uses rather than these ridiculous enforcement nonsense that are, that are ill informed and, and such. But yeah, Bitcoin ATM's at the front, so they get the, they get the finger pointing from, from institutions like Time Magazine. But it really doesn't have anything to do with Bitcoin. Bitcoin didn't exist at all or any crypto. They would be doing it in another way. They would be using, well, they are, they're using it with with gift cards, such. It just seems that it's core that we built the internet improperly. They built it in an open fashion, so that for example, anyone can email anyone else on the system, which sounded like a great idea. But I don't think that they had that little devil sitting on their shoulders saying, someone will use this system to send a million messages. They'll send 10 million messages. They'll message everyone in the world like they don't care. There's no etiquette for these people. They don't think that they'll be kicked off the net. They don't think they'll be damages. And if one out of a million signs up for your product and sends you money, it's a win. And you just keep sending these messages as opposed to a system that had kind of a whitelist, sorry, wrong word, allow list, where it would go through and it say, oh, this person's allowed or this person's a friend of a friend or a friend of a friend of a friend, you could go pretty far down the chain before you would get this open system where you just allow anyone anywhere to email you. And usually the prize inside is a scam or they're going to try to steal your accounts. And I've seen you now with a lot of text messages as well where they send you kind of open-ended things like, hey, did you see this thing last Friday or want to get dinner next week or haven't seen you in a while? And you're always like, at first you're like, oh, you get so few messages. You're like, oh, it's an old friend. This is great. Who's this? And it's always a scam. It's always not a real person, report and block. And once again, it's because it's allowing first, it's not having a controlled list. Yeah. And, you know, this is where technology like Hash Cash from Adam Backer, these sorts of things that never actually fruitioned should be thought about again. I mean, there's no reason why we cannot have Hash Cash now. And Hash Cash, for those that don't know, was a way to, was mentioned in the Bitcoin white paper and was a way to basically create a stab for email. So you create, do some work and then that work creates a stab and that stab then has to go on to the email and you need that, you need that stamp on the email to send it. And you can set on the receiver end how much, how much value you need to get through. And so if you say, you know, someone like, I don't know, Elon Musk might have that at 10 bucks or at 20 bucks, was something just to make sure. But I don't think Hash Cash actually had any value to it. It was just an amount of computation. So, and that stopped the spam is because the spam is couldn't do it for free. They had to do some computation. And yeah, this is, this is interesting. And I don't know why it hasn't been done again. In fact, I would love, I did see somebody try it once with Bitcoin where you could attach some sets. This was back in the day before, before we had scaling issues, but you could attach some sets and, and you could say, I will donate, if I read the email, it, donate or it sends back to the person that sent it to you. So yeah, I don't know, someone should do that again. I think Jesse Powell had a great email system where you had to pay it to get through to him. And like you say, Josh, it's just about how much they're willing to pay it. The spammers are maybe to willing to pay, you know, one or two dollars, a real person, maybe $10 to get that opportunity to reach somebody. And that would be a much better system. And you could keep the $10. Let's keep moving. Check out worldcryptonetwork.com where we've got more than three months, 20 days and zero hours of video. You could watch it for three months and 20 days straight at worldcryptonetwork.com. Issue three, Mt. Gox wouldn't have happened with modern tools. Mark Carpella says the former Mt. Gox CEO is back again with his new exchange and an Ungocks venture as it says he now has an exchange, where is the name of it? Here it is. It's called Elypx, which allegedly has the best modern practices of exchange learned from Mt. Gox. And he has a crypto rating agency called Ungocks. He says I can say very confidently that the Mt. Gox hack wouldn't have happened if we had had some of the tools we have today. Josh Chagall, what do you think about Mt. Gox? Carpella says back and the Ungocks rating system. Yeah, I mean, you know, Mark, I think redeemed himself a lot because he worked very, very hard to get everybody, everybody something back. And that was extremely hard to do. It was extremely hard to do. I think the guy went through hell and back. He was young at the time when Mt. Gox launched. He didn't know what he was up against. He didn't understand the amount of technical overhead that he needed. He went in there with this very naive, but also over confident vibe of I don't even know how to say it. Basically, he was just overwhelmed and didn't understand. I don't think he set out the scam. So he just didn't have anything set up to see if his exchange started slipping to fractional reserve. And yeah, Starship set it right. He fucked up. He got robbed and he didn't deliberately deliberately steal. But it was almost too hard for him to see through the spaghetti that was there. And so, yeah, I think he's a good person to understand what is needed by exchanges. And it is needed at exchange rating agency for sure. I think it makes sense. Well, I still don't believe that this is a transaction, malleability thing, but I also don't blame Mark. I believe that he bought kind of a broken exchange from some kind of questionable people, Jed McCaleb, the serial entrepreneur who seems to start a new project, sell it, move on to the next project, and start a new project and sell it before you've even heard about the last project. I'm not certain that the Mt. Gox exchange was solvent when he bought it, and I'm not certain it was ever solvent. I don't know that it's because of a transaction malleability bug that allowed someone to withdraw endless coins or if just the nature of the thing. It always seemed like a very shaky PHP application back when I was using it. I was very surprised that everyone was trusting all of their money into this. And I wasn't surprised when it crashed and disappeared. I was certainly sad that everyone lost their money, but maybe they got some of it back recently. Things are turning around. Josh, what about the exit question? What about the second part that he started an un-gox venture where he's going to rate crypto projects? I like the idea on its face. I'm just not sure sadly that Mark Carpellis is the person to do it. This is like Charlie Shrem. Maybe they could team up together and go around and rate projects. I'm not sure that having the most arrested, the most bankrupted people in our industry, going around and rating things is really going to work out for us. What do you think, Josh? Yeah, I mean, it's tricky. Also, it's such a different industry nowadays. It's so wide and how do you rate? You have to have a... You know, it's possible. At the end of the day, if you're the CEO, you don't have to sit there rating as long as you build the structure to rate things. But let's say there's a difference between an open-south protocol like the standard would be rated, would need different eyeballs and hats to understand all of the game theory and everything else involved in that compared to something like an exchange, like Binats or Cracken or... And then that would be also slightly different than very small exchanges or niche exchanges. So specifically, let's say, Valtoro, which dealt with physical gold, there needs to be an understanding of how gold is then kept not only physically, but what the bailman contracts look like that people are signing up to. And then you need lawyers to look through that. So there's a whole lot of work there. And then there's a whole lot of... How do you... But how does that make money? Do they get a stamp? Is it kind of like a trust stamp that... Everyone knows how ratings agencies make money. They get corrupt. We have one here in Las Vegas. I don't know anything about it in detail, but it's called the Best of Las Vegas Awards. And it seems if your restaurant does dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, you can pretty much assure that you'll get one of those every year. You can put it on the door. You can have it on all your ads and your magazines. And sadly, this is the end of these ratings associations because like you say, Josh, they're just not very profitable. There's no... If you're doing it honestly and truly, then you're giving out a lot of bad reviews, a lot of angry rankings, and no one's going to donate to your cause after that. Yeah, and that's exactly where I was heading, exactly that. I mean, you see it over and over again. Look at the food ratings, like any rating agency that rates health on a food packet. Generally just gets destroyed within a few years. And then they're like stamping, I don't know, like some sugar red chemical-redded cereal box with very healthy foods that, you know, approval. It's all about finding where that line is like a Gremlins and the PG-13 rating. You're like, how much can we put in? How much sugar? How much violence? We'll put one more scene, one more, you know, gram of sugar. And we take it out and we find that line. Yeah, Bitsimuangai, maybe he'll put the rating on the blockchain. I love it. That'll work like IBM and those diamonds. But this isn't the first time that we've heard about Mt. Gox returning. Brock Pierce famously wanted to return Mt. Gox, calling it a Phoenix returning from the ashes. I believe he felt that the Mt. Gox brand was so valuable that it had to be reused. I, on the other hand, just, you know, from my cheap seats out here, I felt the Mt. Gox brand had no value. Although I suppose it's like Coke and Pepsi, it has name recognition. It's a famous broken Bitcoin exchange. It seemed like he's gone with a lip X or something, which I've already forgotten twice. Josh, what do you think about the value of the Mt. Gox brand? Should they have used the Mt. Gox name? You know, someone, you know, it's interesting. Branding is very, very fascinating because you can use negative news in your favor as well. And Trump does it very well. It doesn't matter what news is out there as long as your brand is being put out there, that you then feel happy about that because you're getting branding and that sticks in your name. Like no matter how bad Mt. Gox is, I'll always remember. I mean, I was personally involved there because I lost funds, but I think most people would recognize that name Mt. Gox. So I don't know. Like, if I don't know, I think it is a good idea to use, yeah. Well, that's just what people say about the World Crypto Network, but we're not selling. Let's move on to issue four. Issue four, inside the Trump Crypto project, linked to a $2 million DeFi hack and a former pickup artist. Politics are not, it's not looking good for the Trump Crypto project. Four team members listed in the World Liberty Financial White Paper previously worked on DO finance, and they're apparently using the same code. That allowed $2 million to be drained in July. One also founded date hotter girls LLC. So it's just not looking good. Let's go to Thomas Hunt on this. The first thing I say is in addition to that from my notes here, there was also a Twitter hack, a Twitter, let's see, getting phone calls, everything. There was a Twitter hack as well where some of the Trump family members were hacked, and then their accounts pointed to a different world Liberty financial scam. So that was pretty fun as well to see the other family members say, no, don't go to that waves. That's a different scam. That's not our scam. But there's nothing special about this. People have come to crypto before, acted like Bitcoiners even been paid by Bitcoiners, had fantastic speeches and events and everything you could believe in. And then the way to fix Bitcoin is their own crypto project dot dot dot. It does seem like this is an incredibly large crypto project and entire D5 platform. I've seen some articles saying that the new coin has gigantic rewards, even a 75% pre-mind, which is impressive, even by crypto standards. And there's even concerns if Donald Trump wins the presidency again. How can he be running or owning or connected to this weird, defried project thing, which they say supports the dollar, but really seems like it supports them getting fees and kickbacks and returns? Josh, what do you think about the latest attempt to fix crypto from the Trump family, the world Liberty financial? Yeah, it's hard to know because obviously if there's people that have a scammy background in the first place, it lowers that value. I'm not sure how much Trump has to do with that. How much, like what sort of share he has in this? I do know that he has started to talk about Bitcoin and crypto in general. He was at the finance. I forgot what it was called. Finance summit just recently, just yesterday, on the day before, quite an interesting speech about how he's going to... It does seem like, according to the website, that all three of his Trumps, including, quote, 18-year-old Baron, who is, quote, identified as the project's D5 visionary, are involved in the project, at least, according to their website. Yeah. Yeah, I really don't know too much about it to even comment, but I would say that it would be important to... The thing is, it's different because normal politicians don't really have businesses because they're just... All they do is suck off the teeth of the state, whereas when you get somebody that's an outsider, there is a businessman who's going to be tied up in ventures. It's... Yeah, it's not usual. That's for sure. So, yeah. Well, I'd say our normal stance is to try to warn people and to say something like, you should just hold on to Bitcoin or Ethereum or something else in the top 10, something that you believe in, rather than investing in this new, weird thing, even though you like this guy or you like his politics or whatever it may be. But this isn't designed for our audience. This isn't designed for you. We can warn you all you want. This thing's still probably going to sell out really well just like the Trump NFTs because he's selling to his own audience. His own audience is there. They can figure out credit cards. They can sign up for this thing. They can send their money over and I know what happens after that, but you're on your own. But again, you're probably not watching the show if anything, you're negative about me and so forth. But yes, I would warn people. I don't think this is a good investment. Investment advice. I have no insider info. It just looks bad. We've been through this before. Many other people come to crypto, think it's great. Then they say what kind of business they can build on to it. But let's do it. Yeah, and I don't know what they're trying to do with that. Liberty, I don't know. Like people put a brand of DeFi. They make tons of money and awesome fees. I mean, it's just about sweet money and fees. And if I could be in exchange, then I would get $10 every time you trade. And if I can get you to trade 100 times a day, I'm making sweet money. And I just, I don't think it's any more complicated than they just want money. I like money. Well, let's keep moving. Sadly, we have a sadder issue for our last issue. Cosmopolitan magazine published a very large, very long piece about Tony Lane, the famous cryptocurrency pioneer who unfortunately passed away. According to the piece in Cosmopolitan, Tony Lane passed away from anorexia, which I didn't know much about this, but apparently constant, constantly denying yourself nutrition does have a long term negative effect. And many people who have anorexia do eventually pass away or have serious consequences from not eating. Tony Lane made a lot of speeches, traveled around. It wasn't a big fan of me. We weren't great friends. Josh Egaala, you knew Tony Lane. What do you think of this article? And we also have the sad news that we can confirm, at least according to Cosmopolitan magazine, she passed away from anorexia. Yeah, it's very sad. She was a friend of mine. And we spent some time in Berlin. We spent some time flying to some different parties and such. She was quite such an interesting character. A lot of people didn't like her attitude. She's one of these sort of polarizing characters. But I think her heart was in the right place. And yeah, it was really a shock when I went to a funeral because COVID just started early 2020. And so everyone was in lockdown. And so her funeral was over Zoom. And it was quite touching, actually, all of the people that came out of the woodwork. And I think I gave a little talk about Tony. And it's, yeah, it's very unfortunate. And I wasn't sure. And I didn't want to ask the parents what she died of. I knew it was something to do with starvation. But I thought maybe there was a cancer as she was trying to stab it out or something. I wasn't quite sure. And it was hard with COVID and stuff. And yeah, I didn't want to. So I just knew that she had passed and I went to the funeral and listened. But that is a wonderful thing. Yeah, shocking is that the article mentioned is how kind of disappointing the funeral was because it happened during COVID. If this had happened in normal times, especially given a lot of the kind of well-off people that she hung out with, you have to assume it would have been a big event. A lot of people coming, a lot of people making speeches in person, just a lot more to it. It's sad she passed during the beginning of COVID there. However, it's a very difficult, complicated story. I think there's a lot more to unpack here. When I look at it on one hand, supporting Tony's side, I think she was kind of used. As a symbol of beauty, a lot of people had her speak at their conferences. They had her meet the important people. They used her to get connections to get to the next level. And as the article said, no one ever funded her startup. I don't know that her startup would have been successful or that she had the gear to run a startup rather than just make speeches. But it seems like they should have funded her. It wouldn't have cost them hardly anything. They kind of treated her badly. And then when she needed their help, there didn't seem like there's anyone around. So it is a very tragic story. I mean, it wasn't a fan of me and so forth. Go ahead, Josh. Yeah, for those that don't know, her startup was BitNation, which was very, very... If I was a VC, it would be hard to fund because it was all over the shop. She had an amazing way of speaking and would encapsulate the audience. But at the end of the day, when you thought about it after, it's like, hang on. So BitNation is like some stateless thing based around blockchains. And you have IDs on there. You have... I don't know. It's sort of like it just didn't make any sense to me personally. I liked her as a person. We had a lot of fond memories of Tony. But as a startup, and I think she would have done... She was one of these bright stars. Like, she would have done something big in her life purely because when you heard her speak, it was like, who is this person? She had a quite an eloquent tongue. Yeah, but I kind of agree with you. I'm not sure if it added up at the end of the day. I think she was a very passionate about what she said. She went around a lot and made a lot of speeches. And she had this idea for a startup. And I don't know that it is BitNation, but Josh, if you say it is, I've heard of that when Suzanne, I want to say Temple Hough or something was running it. Also, there's some world crypto network relation there because Chris Ellis demoed the blockchain ID right here on the world crypto network. Then it kind of felt like BitNation took that idea and used it to raise some kind of funding. Then there was something else called ubiquity that broke off from BitNation and also raised funding. And of course, poor Chris could never raise any funding for blockchain ID or any of his projects. So it was always strange. I only met her a few times. One time she wasn't pleased with me the other times. I don't know that she noticed I was there, but it was at Crypto Castle. And then I saw her once in Malta. And it was the funniest thing because she was, of course, getting her speakers past. And I was finding out that I had signed up for the wrong Malta convention and that I might not even be allowed in. So it's always different. Different circumstances there. But what a character. Oh, they're saying Schrodinger says his low price alarm just went off. So we might be having a horrible alarm price event. It's around 52,950. Oh, right. So it is in a bit of a little turn there. But Josh, anything else that you want to say about Tony Lane or maybe just a good time to think about some other people in Bitcoin we haven't heard from in a while or some of that you remember from back in the day. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, it would be interesting to have a sort of look back through all the people. You know how the Oscars go and talk about it. Maybe we could do a show. Look back at some of the personalities and Bitcoin that have passed like John McAfee, Tony Lane. And there's a few others that, you know, that that kind of died so sad. We don't even know if they've passed. I did this tweet and asked all my friends recently about Jason King and didn't really come to a conclusion. Oh, wow. Jason has he's run off. Some people think that he was a, well, he had some problems with people. There may have been scams there. So people are very upset with him. They say he's not worth looking for. And then in general, he told me that he was unwell at one point, but I never heard a follow-up to that. And it's not the kind of thing you can just hey, check in like six months later, like, hey, did you beat that, you know, life threatening illness or did it each and a strangest thing? Because there's not a lot of talk on his Facebook page. Usually there's kind of a remembrance thing. But yeah, I remember Jason King shones outpost running across America, raising money for the homeless, early friend of Vitalik Vitalik was there in our video with Jason and Vitalik where he ran across America. And there's an interesting fun story. Jason told me once where he said he was talking to Vitalik and he said, he said jokingly jokingly to Vitalik. He said, why don't we just make a blockchain full of blockchains? And it'll be full of blockchains. And we'll use the blockchains. And you know, they're laughing and having good time with Vitalik was like, you know, that's not too far from Ethereum. That's not too far from what we're doing over here. And you're mocking us and you're laughing. But no, it's not too far. So yeah, Jason King was a good guy. There's a lot of other people. You just don't see around anymore. We used to have Andreas Antonopolis on these shows. I enjoyed having him on. I'm not sure how to reach him anymore. It was pretty. He cut everything. Like it's almost impossible to get in touch with him. It was discouraging to me when he unfollowed everyone on Twitter. I felt that we had a little way maybe to send him a message that he might see through Twitter email other ways. I'm sure he's jammed. But it is kind of sad. And it's not it's not just him. It's not just others. But it does seem like nobody calls you anymore. In the old days, you used to be a new call up your old friends. You say, hey, how you doing old buddy? It's been a while. And then we had the COVID thing. And it was kind of like, well, if you're not going to call people during the COVID thing. And I think a lot of people didn't. And they just got discouraged. And they got shut in at home. And now they're just like, well, it's another two years for all my acquaintances. I know that feeling where I'm like, yeah, I was going to see that guy every year at a conference. And then, whoop, they disappear. But yes, there's nobody calls anymore. Yeah, I mean, like Jason King, there's a name I haven't heard in such a long time. And Jason you know, you bringing it up brings back a flood of memories. I mean, this guy basically gave Bitcoin to homeless people when it was like 30 bucks, somewhere between 30 and 100 bucks. And and it was all about, you know, the community would donate Bitcoin. And he would send it, give it out to homeless people. And back then, you couldn't really trade it in. I mean, you had like Charlie Shrem start his thing where you could buy Bitcoin. I don't know if you could sell it through him. But I'm one of the one of the articles that homeless had traded their Bitcoin for a gift card for pizza, probably through GYFT. And even back then, they were upset. They're like, yeah, it was worth 135 last week. It's worth 300 now. I wish I hadn't bought the pizza. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm wondering, like, I would love to hear if there's anybody out there that got received money while they were homeless and now, you know, richer than most people in America because of Jason King, I'd love to know if there's anybody out there that managed to do that because yeah, sometimes people are homeless not because they're totally mentally ill, but they had some bad luck in that moment. So it would be interesting. Well, sadly, again, when I asked Twitter, all the stories were very negative and that Jason had scammed them out of lots of money, even a double digit Bitcoin. So you never know what people are actually doing what they're actually up to. But you hope for the best. And it is sad, Josh, we've lost all these people as they're saying in the chat. Yeah, they're seeing Starship says his scene fell apart in the pandemic. I remember I used to go to the San Francisco Bitcoin meetup and there's dozens of people that you recognize and maybe you know their first name and you see them every week at this meetup that just disappeared. They're just the COVID thing. I moved. They probably moved. We completely disappeared. So this strange to lose all these people. So try to check in with your friends, try to see what's going on. But I think we better head to the end of the show. Josh, you have a prediction or a story of the week. Go ahead. The prediction basically is that the Sun will rise tomorrow and keep your head up high when Bitcoin goes down. It's just a phase. And like anything else, it will go back up. Don't worry too much about it. It is like Starship said that alarm is meant for him to go long. So very good outlook. That's a true traitor there by whenever when there's blood in the streets and so whenever on Stubinal, Jovio on it. It's very early here. Let's see. Shotinger says prediction. The bathroom will not be finished by next week. While we're rooting for you and we'll see how it goes. I just want to give a shout out. I guess to Cosmopolitan magazine into the author. Let's see. Do I have her name? Jessica Klein who wrote this nice piece about Tony Lane Casserly. A lot of these things just get forgotten, kind of pushed under the rug, especially like Josh said during COVID. No one really knew what happened to her. There was a lot of conspiracy theories and uncertainty about maybe she'd faked her death or maybe somebody was involved or drugs or other kind of drama. So as sad as it is to see it simplified to Anorexia and a lifelong struggle with this serious disease, it is nice to have the closure and to have the finality and also a little bit of a celebration of her career and what she tried to do. I do think there are other angles to this in the crypto world that I live in. Many people famously know Tony Lane as the founder of CoinTelegraph and the face of CoinTelegraph for a long time. Then there's a whole really weird story where the people who worked at CoinTelegraph were told that she was not the founder and she was not powerful and they shouldn't listen to her and then they also kind of used her as a figurehead so they could say they were a woman-run company and then they disappeared her and they disappeared their website. No one-we still don't know who owns CoinTelegraph and that's pretty important if you're giving out information that people make stock and money based decisions on but that's one of those mysteries that we'll just never know and Terilane's involvement in is also a mystery and a very strange thing that was completely excluded from this article. Well the interesting thing with the Tony CoinTelegraph as well is that all of a sudden it was Maria Jones who was then the founder. When it was always Tony Lane and it was almost like 1984 and no no no it was never Tony Lane it was Maria Jones but it was still two women that were quite beautiful and it's yeah CoinTelegraph is a strange strange story and something that I think would be interesting- it would be definitely an interesting read if someone dug into that story and created a post for it. Well let's put it out there then Jessica Klein you've got more work to do look at CoinTelegraph and of course look at Tony Lane Casserly's job there and what she did but thanks again to everybody for joining us thanks for giving us a thumbs up down below and subscribing if you haven't already until next time bye bye