The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten years, the sharpest satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest crypto currency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Happy Friday, babes. Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hello, hello. Josh Shagalla from thestandard.io. What's the lesson? What is the takeaway? Don't mess with Maui when he's on a breakaway. And I am Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, frenzied pace for the Bitcoin ETF as trading tops one billion dollars during the first hour and perhaps five billion dollars for the first day. Everyone loves the Bitcoin ETFs, although Moody's analysts say that the ETFs are too small to affect the larger investment landscape and that the so-called institutional funds will not be following. Dan Eave, what do you think about day one of the Bitcoin ETFs? Oh, yeah, it's still the argument right, whether it was priced in. But maybe that kind of fake announcement really kind of rippled things and suckered the impact that the actual real approval would have had. So that's pretty sad that that happened. And obviously, pretty bad for the SEC to have egg on its face like that. Market manipulation from the SEC itself. And I saw the headline that they're going to have to actually investigate themselves, which is great, that spider-man picture right of him pointing it himself. So just another day in crypto, it's always crazy. I did see people saying that a lot of the volume was actually from GBTC, people finally being able to get out of GBTC. So a lot of the trading volume was people selling rather than actually people buying. Who knows? But we are a bit down since last week. So it's kind of a bit deafened. I'm sorry, not deafened like your dampened, isn't it? This would be great. The ETFs are down around 5% and Bitcoin's also down around 5%. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the Bitcoin ETF? So I just unmute myself. Yeah, I mean, obviously Gary Gensler was a bit of a wet fish with his announcement. It's like we've approved it, but only under huge duress. So and clearly there was a lot of conflict on the board. I mean, it would appear that if it hadn't been for that court case, court case, that was a Freudian slip, court case earlier in the year. The odds are still probably would have been no, but it turns out that that court case has kind of forced it to go through. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. I mean, I think it's, you know, allowing a bit of QTF is like allowing a parasite into the financial system. I mean, there's going, it's going to be very interesting to watch. I'll give it that. That's why it was great to see Elizabeth Warren on the sidelines there. So angry at the SEC. I can't believe what you're doing. You're allowing the Trojan horse inside our walls. They'll destroy the whole financial system. Josh Agala will the Bitcoin ETF destroy the whole financial system? Well, when the police investigate themselves, there's, it's, it's, it's kind of hard to ignore the, yeah, what that means. So yeah, you know, the SEC has fined many a company for exactly these sorts of things. And so I, I'm just, I'm watching to see what happens to the SEC for, I don't know, like even an explanation, we got Sim swapped or we didn't have two factor and now we do or because if some clown can get into their official Twitter account and tweet about something that's, you know, now Gary talked about how much duress he was under. So that goes to show how much pressure from all sides were interested in this financial product. Yet they let some clown went into their, into their Twitter. Now, I'm, my, my guess is, and I know many, many are talking heads have, I've covered this topic to Nausea. But just for the, for our audience, I get a feeling that maybe they had like a buffer or some other third party software with, with something ready to go and that's what didn't have two factor because I just can't imagine that the main SEC, SEC account wouldn't have a two factor authentication or something to stop someone simply tweeting something from the official account. Like the power that that account yields is absolutely extraordinary. And so yeah, the SEC needs to be taken to task and I want to, I want to, because they're a public organization. They should be publicly accountable and, and transparent about what happened. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I don't care because, you know, my, my strategies to buy some Bitcoin and buy some Ethereum and buy some other coins that are, that interest me and I find bring value and I, and I hold them aside. I don't really care. And I don't care about the ETF either that much. And I like personally buying it myself. I care because a lot of people will care. And we talk about it. But yeah, I'm surprised that all of the gains have been sucked out of the, of the market already. So, you know, that's, that's pretty phenomenal. But this is the other side, which we've been warning about on this show is that the ETF doesn't only bring, bring buying pressure, it also brings a whole lot of wall street shenanigans into the market, which the silver industry has been bitching and moaning about for years, which is market manipulation. And the silver industry is much larger than, than even the Bitcoin industry. So, yeah, welcome to the manipulation. Well, the, the early reports, Josh, we'll talk on this more is that Twitter security says that it was a sim swapping that someone found out the phone number that was on the SEC account called up the provider, maybe T-Mobile of the SEC and said, hey, I'm from the SEC and I need to update my phone number and something like that. And then they get into the account. But we'll talk a little bit more about that on the next issue. I want to talk a little bit about the Moody's analysts. And I think this is unfair to Bitcoin for years. They're like, oh, if only Bitcoin had an ETF, then you'd get institutional money. Now they're like, you have an ETF, but you're too small. So I think this is goal posting. They're moving the goal posts and sure that's good. But I think we should celebrate that we did get a Bitcoin ETF. We got, I don't know, eight of them, it does it of them. I can't keep track in the United States on the United States stock market. So as we've said many times for what seems like eight years, according to the old clip we played last week, you can buy Bitcoin with your stock market money. You don't have to sell it. You can just say, hey, get an I-bit or Burr or G-B-T-C or Bitwise. I don't know any of the symbols, but there's a lot of ways now to buy Bitcoin on the stock market. So I think the world's getting better in that respect. Now of course the price has gone down. The ball last week refused to predict for you. It could not see anything, but this week what will happen? Dan Eave, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I think we're going to have a little recovery. And just for the record, it's only 0.18% lower than last week. We were almost correct in saying that it would be higher. Hence the refusal to answer. The ball, it was too precise. The ball couldn't tell. It was too on the line. Victoria Jones, what about the price of Bitcoin will be higher this week? Everyone thought it would be higher with the ETF than they sold the news, right? They bought the news and sold the event. Yeah, I was going to comment on this later, but I mean I saw some tweets where someone was saying, I'm expecting a 10x God, God candle after the ETF is approved. And it's like, guys, honestly, it's just like you completely out of touch with reality. But yeah, I think this is a sell the news event. I think we may have top for the time being. I think it'll be down. I like it when they start calling it a God candle and everything gets religious. Josh, should go higher or lower this time next week? I kind of feel like it's, you know, by the rumor sell the news that billions of dollars can now access this like tiny amount of asset that's left to buy event. I don't know. Yeah, I think it'll be up. Well, I just remember how many times we've been called idiots for being in Bitcoin. We were called drug money. We were called Silk Road people. I remember even when I first saw Bitcoin and I saw it at the command line, I was like, oh, obviously, this is going to enrich people who got in before dollar. And I'm such an idiot. I didn't get in before dollar. So it's over. And I saw it at the command line. I was like, how are you going to convince other people to do this? And now they've convinced even Wall Street to accept Bitcoin. So it's a big moment in Bitcoin history, whether it makes the price go up or not. But what's more important is your trading advice for the week. Of course, this is not financial advice. This is a piece of plastic filled with water. But it does have the amazing and incredible ability to predict the future almost as successful as tarot cards or science from the sky astrology. Teed leaves. Teed leaves. Like there's a variety of prediction methods not as efficient as this ball. But now will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It is decidedly so decidedly so from the magic eight ball. Moving on to issue two really part of issue one SEC green lights Bitcoin ETF, even as hack sets off Washington alarms. Yes, as we discussed briefly, but we'll discuss in more detail the day before the Bitcoin ETFs a tweet was released from the official SEC Twitter account and SEC Twitter account that is told you in the past to only trust the SEC when you're getting information about the SEC and the tweet said the Bitcoin ETF was green lit, even causing the price of Bitcoin to briefly go up. Victoria Jones, what do you think about this exciting tweet and the surprise potential that such an important organization, one that as we've discussed before, Greenspan used to say it's cloudy today and the market would go down. He says it's sunny. It goes up. Didn't protect their Twitter account. Didn't see the value in it. What do you think about this hack? Well, I mean, you know, I mean anyone who trusts the government authority to believe exactly what they say is happening, I mean, needs their head read. And actually, if you look at the facts of what's going on, I mean anyone who's been on Twitter, who's had their account in fact, generally speaking, has to send a billion emails to X or Elon Musk and all just try and get it back. It doesn't happen for weeks and weeks and weeks. And yet, you know, within half an hour of this tweet going around, it being retweeted a gazillion times, Gary Gensler then saying actually there's nothing to it, someone managed to delete it. How do you manage to delete a tweet on a hacked account? If you're not the one who hacked it. So I don't know. I mean, you know, the whole thing stinks really. And as Josh said earlier, you know, the fact the SEC has find other businesses heavily for doing exactly the same thing, you know, it just goes to show the double standards that exist in some of these organizations. I mean, it's just appalling really. So. Well, it definitely set off my spidey sense. It was a day early. We'd all heard Wednesday. It had a couple of weird kind of tags in it. It tags some people. But generally I, and I think a lot of the other people who retweeted it and had a little celebration just wanted it to be true. We're so tired of waiting for the Bitcoin ETF that when this hacked tweet came through 24 hours before the actual tweet, we were all yay. And then the harshness of Gensler and others when they're like, you can't have this. It was like a, you know, father. And he's like, you've taken the Christmas presents from under the tree and we're taking them back. So you're still going to get a bicycle tomorrow. But you know, dad is pissed. Josh, Shagallah, what do you think about the SEC's surprising tweet announcing it at a day early? Yeah. Yeah, I like it. Like I mentioned, it's, it's, it's actually one of these things in crypto and why, why I just love this space is that it's never boring. It's never boring. It's really a roller coaster that just keeps on rolling. There's always a new loop that when you think there's no more loops, there's another one. And, you know, and it really does feel like a giant sci-fi novel that I'm living through. It's wild. So yeah, I think I've said everything I need to about that. But just to the point of moody's like, huh? It just launched. Like what ETF launches massively with the capabilities of, you know, everything, you know, there's these people are so dumb. Like, it's just such a annoying awful. Just traditional finance is such a disgusting cesspool of corruption that, and it's so transparent as well. Like, fancy them putting out in these mainstream media articles, this sort of trash. Like, what the heck, you know, what the, yeah, see no more. It is pretty bad, Josh. It's like a bird just gets out of his nest and it's flying along and they're like, yeah, but you're not flying fast. Yeah, you just got to swim. Yeah, baby, just learned to swim. Why can't it dive yet? Can it compete against the Olympian? No, what a crap, baby. That's what they've always said about Bitcoin too. Like, yeah, can't do is really transactions is visa. It's like, come on. Yeah, yeah. I got what they've been since the 50s like, I wanted to recognize is that actually the market cap of Bitcoin is currently in the same league as most of the fangstokes that lead the stock market. So okay, the fraction of the ETF that they've introduced might just be that, but this is an asset that is worth almost a trillion dollars for crying out loud, you know, any kind of stock that was that, you know, had that kind of market cap, they would have a totally, you know, there'd be articles all over the place talking about it, but not this one. Yep. They're still just mad they can't get an interview with the CEO Satoshi, but Dan Eve, what do you think about the Bitcoin announcement, the SEC announcing the ETF a day early? I mean, that's the crazy buys that yeah, they got SimSwap, which is such a common thing in crypto. So by just telling everyone to 2FA their account, they literally got done by the probably the oldest crypto scam in the book in terms of, you know, being hacking someone's exchange account and whatever buy the SimSwap. But I was surprised to eat X safety tweeted about their little investigation and mentioned that and actually said they they can confirm that the account didn't have two factor authentication, which I don't know if that would be against kind of data privacy laws like exposing how dumb they are for running the account without 2FA or just general like, you know, it's kind of personal account information, right? So they obviously, I'm sure they researched that before they tweeted it out. But it really is egg on the face of the SEC, especially saying, you know, the initial rejection to the Bitcoin, the rumors were around market manipulation and then what happens a day before the ETF goes as a bunch of market manipulation and a lot of speculation, of course, that loads of orders and, you know, but sales and buys price of the news were like as well sales are after, but by, you know, it sells when the correction came up, but there was a lot of coincidences around people making a lot of money off of that. So, you know, there's all sorts of speculation in that area there where there is an inside job even, you know, who knows? I'm saying, but even so with with Bitcoin's like market cap of like under 900 billion, it's now Apple, I didn't know how, how we didn't realize how much it grown with 2.89 trillion market cap. Yeah. So, still, it's still Bitcoin still like less than quarter. Why am I not saying very good? It's just under a quarter of the market cap of even just Apple, as you're saying, like a fangstock. So like, you know, crazy. And that's just one of the fangstocks as well. So, Bitcoin really is a drop in the ocean. It's got so much more growth ahead. But I'm with Josh that no matter how well it would have done, there would still be movies and whoever like Pupo in the news and being all miserable about it. So, at the end of the day, it broke, it broke records from what I'm reading. So, the first day of training. They're just jealous. Yeah, yeah. They just, they just jail jail. Mm-hmm. Right. The Apple growth case has actually been pretty interesting. They recently turned on services. So now instead of just buying a computer or an iPhone from Apple, you pay for Apple Music, Apple Fitness, a variety of other services each month. So they get that sweet money. You'll note the same thing happening with Amazon Prime, turning on advertising now, charging customers, $3 a month if you don't want ads. And on the other end of the spectrum, Netflix's ad-free or ad-supported queue has been incredibly successful. Despite the fact that I hate advertising. Many other people want a low price Netflix and are willing to deal with advertising. Again, those service companies get that sweet monthly money that all the banks want. But me and my senior, it's like, TV subscription. And it was like, wow, I get my pyra hound. Thank you very much. And then Netflix came along and they're like, wow, okay, cool. I don't mind paying a subscription. And now there's like Netflix Disney now, Zulu. You've got 50 of these subscriptions just to watch. I've been a TV here and there. And you can't just find one thing on, you know, you've got to search 10 different places to see if it have 10 different subscriptions. And that's way more expensive than it was before. It's crazy. Yes, definitely the micro payment kind of subscription things are killer. Well, in a lot of ways too, Dan, this has come true. They've recently said that the streaming wars are over and that Netflix won. But people are comfortable with Netflix. They never cancel it. They try Disney plus they try HBO Max, but they end up canceling it. They stick with Netflix. And now other companies are selling their content to Netflix again. So you're going to see famous HBO shows or Marvel Disney shows on Netflix, at least for the short-term future. And there is a major test of the streaming services coming up this weekend, at least in America. The National Football League is putting a playoff game, something that the two teams fans desperately want to watch on NBC's peacock streaming service that no one has. So I believe Dan, they're going to see incredible amount of traffic to Reddit NFL streams or wherever people get their streams these days. But it is unfortunate that the SEC can't get it together to protect us from sim swaps, something that's actually a threat that has affected people that will keep affecting people. And especially the phone companies who take this seriously now, hopefully they get drawn into Congress. And they're like, why did you change the phone for the thing? And they're like, oh, he called up and he had a nice voice and sounded very professional said, please, and thank you. So we updated the phone number. I mean, there's got to be more protections for these phone numbers. And instead the SEC is protecting people from ETFs back when tone and Theo and I talked about it eight years ago. The price was $700. So they're protecting people from incredible gains more on this day. It's very much an American thing, isn't it? The sim swapping because you don't, I don't really hear, I haven't really heard it happening over here. There's always sort of American accounts. Is that because of they have different rules on like how hard it is to access the data in your account? Like, are you just, it might be part of number of portability. I know we had a log go through where they said you can take your cell phone number with you. There is a procedure where you call up a phone company and say, hey, you know, turn me off here. I'm going to go to this company, you know, switch me over. They'll call you and that kind of thing. So perhaps because of that procedure, it leaves it open. I don't know if you guys have number portability there or if you just have different control laws on the cell phone data because it is really just a social engineering job. The guy talks his way through and says, hey, I got to update my number, you know, Kawasaki on the DMT drives. You know, blah, blah, and he gets in. And this time he got the SEC. He got that fake Bitcoin announcement. I hope, well, I don't know. I don't hope. But I mean, it's a tough, tough line. I wonder if they bet correctly if they, if they shorted or if they longed because we saw the first time the ETF was announced, we went up the second time it was an hour and we went down. So. All right. Dan, more on that. Let's go on to issue three. We're just kind of talking all about the ETF at different aspects today. The SEC chair gives into a Bitcoin ETF, but the hostility against cryptocurrency is still there. As you guys saw, we had the fake announcement that was a hack that really kind of took the wind out of Bitcoin sales and deflated the announced, but then when they did actually announced it announced that SEC chairman Gary Gensler said, though we're merit neutral, I'd note that the underlying assets in the metals, ETPs have consumer and industrial uses. While in contrast, Bitcoin is primarily a speculative volatile asset that's also used for illegal activity, including ransomware, money laundering, sanction evasion, and terrorist financing. While we approved the listing and trading of certain spot Bitcoin ETP shares today, we did not approve or endorse Bitcoin. Josh Shagalla, what do you think of Gary Gensler's wonderful greeting and welcome to all of us Bitcoin and cryptocurrency fans? He's just such a scumbag in the, I mean, fancy starting the sentence with where merit neutral and then going into all the negatives. It doesn't sound too neutral. Hey, Gary, what about Bitcoin is inclusive and allows anybody to do that? Join the fun, the global financial markets without permission. What about the fact that most transactions and there's been multiple studies of this? Don't do any of that stuff that you mentioned and is actually people using it for trade and buying pillows and things like quite boring stuff. It's just typical, typical Gary. By the way, how many iPhones or phones have been used to organize terrible things? I don't know, kidnappings and drug deals. Are you going to say that when Apple, you know, about Apple stock? Are you going to say that? And this goes to something else that we've said on this show. The thing is that with this ETF, like most things on the stock exchange, you're not allowed to talk positively or negatively about if you're the SEC or you're part of that company. The thing with Bitcoin is you can say anything you want about the markets and if you have enough sway, you can actually move this market still, hence moody nonsense. You can still move this market, like Elon Musk and like Fart and something will happen with the Bitcoin price. So when Gary comes along and says something like this or even Peter Schiff, although that's become less and less because he just used it far too often, he could say something negative, affect the price and then buy up Jamie Diamond. I'm pretty sure famously did this where he would just poop a bit coin, say that he's going to fire anyone that ever trades within his organizations. And then the price tanks, they buy up a whole bunch. So there's a lot of manipulation that is possible without legal ramifications surrounding Bitcoin because you can manipulate Bitcoin without yet without being liable for anything. You just say, well, I'm just making public comment about a speculative asset that only money launders and yada, yada, yada, so again, another scumbag move by a scumbag guy that looks like a penis. And it's not just the manipulation, Josh, it's also the disrespect. Bitcoin goes through all this stuff, gets all these things and they still, they got a tagus on the way out there like, yeah, you might think you're good, but really we know, we know about your past and so forth. And like Josh is saying with these technology things, sometimes you have a beeper because you're a drug dealer. Other times you have a beeper because you're a doctor. I got to stop looking at these things and saying, well, that's a single use technology. Bitcoin is always for drugs can only be for drugs. It's never for anything else. But again, the US dollar is used for drugs. If we look at his little list, the United States dollar, a speculative volatile asset that's also used for elicit activity, including ransomware money laundering, sanction evasion and terrorist financing, we all know about the pallets of US dollars that were taken to Iraq. We all know that every street drug deal is done with dollars, even in other countries. So it is hilarious how we continue to defame these mediums of exchange saying that it's the mediums of exchanges fault that people demand illegal drugs and so forth. Dan Eve, what do you think about this recent attack by Gensler right before the announcement? Welcome. Welcome to Bitcoin. You made a really good point that the dollar is such a good thing for money laundering that is like the world's money laundering currency, isn't it? It's literally the best currency in the world for money laundering drugs and all sorts of illicit stuff. But what is that like, would he have said if it was a gold ETF, like, oh, yeah, we approved gold ETF, but gold's pretty poor. And it's like, I guess you know, you can shape it too much sometimes if it's too pure. It's used by pirates. It's included in booty, in just people, probably negative. You sold into blue and all sorts of gold finger turned a woman into solid gold once, obviously gold fought. Yeah, exactly. It's just a strange thing, isn't it? To attack the underlying asset on, you know, it's just such a, but you can tell how bitter he was, especially, and I think he, he has to kind of assert some authority after looking like such a clown with that tweet going out because that really didn't make a mockery of the SEC. It's there to protect investors. And what did it do? It screwed like the markets completely. And that's, and yeah, what else was I point out? They will find people and sue them for these sort of activities. So it's just an insane place to be. But, you know, not everyone is accepting the ETF, right? There's Vanguard who are saying that, you know, nowhere can you trade the big quality ETF on their platforms. So not everyone's it be, you know, accepting of it. So it's seemingly causing a bit of an exodus from Vanguard for all those people that waited to be able to put their Bitcoin in their 401k's that already had them there and with money pumped in. And now they can't even use their money, you know, sorry, direct their money into the place that they actually want it because, you know, companies like Vanguard will be stopping them. So we may see some capital exodus from Vanguard as they move to other companies that allow them to actually trade the markets as they should be able to. And while I do think at any other job, you'd be pretty much immediately fired for this. If I was working at the law firm and I did this, I would expect to be fired. I would expect it. I don't think we'll ever find out who was responsible for this. I don't think they'll ever be fired or publicly named or punished for this. We never found out who leaked that Supreme Court decision about abortion making it so that they couldn't negotiate. It was Alito. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the SEC saying that Bitcoin is no good just as it's announcing that Bitcoin is good enough to be traded by many of these fine Wall Street people? Yeah, I think, you know, reading between the lines from all the articles that we've had today, I think there's the real mixture of people who fully understand what Bitcoin is and how it works. You know, even some of the really key people, so for example, there's a quote from Larry Finkway, says, I don't believe it's ever going to be a currency. I believe that it's an asset class. And that's very, I think even that statement is coming very much from the perspective of someone who's just been in the financial markets too long because actually what inspired Bitcoin in the first place was having a form of digital cash and, you know, the problems with the money system. And it was like even Elizabeth Warren, you know, one of the things she said, I can't find, oh, let's have a look. So she was worried that the ETF, she was worried about how investors would be protected from losing their hard and savings and wanted to keep off financial stability intact. Well, what she's failing to recognize is that the US dollar has already done both of those things and Bitcoin is designed to fix it. And so, you know, all of their arguments are getting in a twist, which isn't helping anybody. You know, they don't understand it properly. So they're using the wrong arguments to try and defend it. And actually, you know, because of the way in which Bitcoin works, you know, unlike, you know, a lot of the stocks, I mean, one thing Gary Gensler said was that the vast majority of crypto assets and investment contracts, they're not investment contracts. Contracts away, you've got together with the lawyer and you've put together what the agreements are and you sign a document. Bitcoin never came into being like that. I mean, some of the old coins did, but Bitcoin didn't, you know, the regulation of Bitcoin is actually embedded in the code. And so actually, the way in which it works is a complete enuffement to the way in which the financial system works, which is why it has a potential to eventually break it. Now really between the lines, I think Gary Gensler does understand that, which is one of the reasons why I think he's been quite cautious in his statement because he realizes that. I think if it wasn't for the court case, he still will have held it back because he understands. And it's like even, I think with the court case, they were criticised for failing to adequately explain its reasoning for turning down great skills proposed Bitcoin ETF. It wasn't adequately explained because he can't turn around and say, you know, basically, the whole way in which the existing financial system works, the system and walls and levers that it's designed specifically to work for us. And if Bitcoin is a Bitcoin ETF is allowed, it's introducing a form of technology that's going to disrupt all of that. You know, his honest answer just raises more questions. And so the problem is there's so much subtyphuge and misunderstanding. And some of the key players, you know, it's like, they're just looking at this whole Bitcoin thing with dollar signs. They can see that people are investing in it, but it's like, they don't fully understand why people are investing in it. And what it is about the technology, they might understand a bit of it because, of course, this is the beauty of Bitcoin. It's like a jigsaw puzzle. There's different aspects of it. And it's like the whole thing kind of comes together. You know, the different elements kind of brought together. It took a long time for Bitcoin to be developed. And it's like different people worked on different parts of it. And then finally, cetacean after moto brought them all together beautifully and kept themselves anonymous and then disappeared, which was like the final touch to kind of get this whole thing working. And, you know, I think the people who work in the financial system are looking at the dollar signs and they do not understand what they're working with. You know, certainly even reading these articles, it's just like, yeah, they get it. They get it. They definitely don't get it. They've got no idea what they've let them serve in for. I mean, I think Larry Fink falls into that category. And so, you know, this is why I just look at this as scouts kind of going. The result of this is going to be so interesting. And it's going to work out in a way no one expects the large majority don't expect. Actually, I think there's a few of us who figured it out, but the large majority are going to be completely blindsided by the true effect of the Bitcoin ETF. And, you know, and the thing is you can't have that conversation because too many people are, you know, talking about 10x Godcandles when it's just kind of like, you're completely missing the point. So, you know, if you're only focused on the price and you're missing the rest of the story, there's so much else that you're missing out here. So, anyway, I just had to kind of get that in because we were jumping around and I was just like, yeah, there's something, there's something kind of more going on here and the way in which this all fits together. That's going to be really interesting. I know everyone's been focused on how this is going to make the price a bit quen go up, but the story is way bigger than that. I do think you're very right. You can't go in there and say, we can't allow this because this will break our system. We've seen the same kind of discussions when they talk about sanctions. They're like, well, we can control Iran except if you use that dirty Bitcoin and the whole thing comes down to it. If we give you the freedom to do what you want with your money, you're going to send it to something we don't like and that generally seems to keep happening over and over again and Bitcoin solves that problem. So, I do think they're in trouble about that and there's going to be more of this in the future. But of course, first, I think this goes well into the exit question. We all remember the Trojan War. The Greek gods were having a party. Hera was there, Aphrodite was there, Zeus was there, everybody was there except Aris, the goddess of chaos. She was not invited. You don't want Aris at your party. And you also don't want to not invite Aris because Aris was standing outside. She got herself a golden apple and she wrote upon it, Calistie, to the prettiest and she rolled it into the party. That was all it took. And Hera and Aphrodite and the other Greek gods or goddesses were fighting with each other. Who was the prettiest? And they got Paris of Troy, one of the prettiest boys from Earth up to Mount Olympus and they said, Paris, who's the prettiest? And Hera offered him power and wealth and strength and all these things. And Aphrodite, the goddess of love, offered him the most beautiful woman in the world. Helen. But unfortunately, Helen was married to Agamemnon of the Greeks. So when Paris took Helen back to Troy because he went with the beauty over the power and the wealth, the Greeks came knocking on the Trojan walls. The Greeks circled the walls. They fought the walls. They had some trouble with the killings and so forth. And then they decided to leave, leaving behind a fine, wonderful horse, the symbol of the Trojan. Trojans outside the wall. We all know what happens next. The Trojans brought the horse inside the walls. That night, the horse was filled with Greek soldiers who came out, opened up the doors to the walls and they burned Troy to the ground. They salted the Earth. They took back Helen and Cassandra and all kinds of other great things happened. But the important question here is, Dan Eve, is this the Trojan horse of Bitcoin? Have we put the giant vacuum tube inside of the Wall Street system, hooked it up to their money systems and prepared to take all of their wealth? Well, it's obviously being a bit over drama-tized. They're going to kind of make a scene out of it, right? As everyone does with Bitcoin. It's always the worst of Bitcoin. It's not just that some people don't, you know, with Bitcoin, it provides financial freedom. Some people won't actually claim for their taxes or declare their taxes. The whole thing is the whole network to build for illicit activities. It's always the worst of the scenario. So whilst it kind of is a Trojan, to be fair, it's doing what everyone said it would do all along, which is disrupt the financial system, right? So it's not like, we're going, we didn't say that. We've literally people are going, it's going to disrupt the financial system and everyone in Bitcoin's going, it's made to disrupt the financial system. So it's literally doing exactly what it says on the tin. So, yeah, let the, let the hope of the Trojan horse is all prepped now in the city of the wall. So we just need to release the deans. We're just waiting for nightfall. Victoria Jones, I think you agree is this Bitcoin, the Trojan horse? I think so, but at the same time, never underestimate your enemy. I think, you know, Wall Street, their powerful play, you know, we've now entered their playground and they will have some, they will have some tricks up their sleeve that we're not expecting either. And so I'm expecting a lot of volatility both down and up because, you know, if they will, they want to destroy it and they will do every, they will try every trick in the book to do that. I don't think Bitcoin wins eventually, as long as there are enough people who understand Bitcoin's fundamentals and all to support it. But, you know, we've now got people with a net worth of one trillion collectively that have invested in this thing and understood it, you know, and then going back to fan stocks earlier, you know, the global stock markets are 109 trillion. So it's already one, it's already the value of 1% of global stock markets. So, you know, there will be some people with greed in there, but a lot of the people, especially the early Bitcoiners, which are probably the wealthiest ones as well, really fully understand what this has the power to do. And so I think the battleground has fully opened and it's going to be very interesting to watch. It reminds me very much of Lord of the Rings. They think that they're winning and they're all powerful and they're like, we are going to make so much money on this Bitcoin and they're like, wait, what do you mean it does that? It does that too. But why do we ever start talking about this? Why do we put all those ads on the Super Bowl as we're going to see in a few weeks? And I think it comes down to greed. They just want more money, more power and control. And they think they can't be unseated. Josh, Shagalla, what do you think is the Bitcoin ETF part of the Bitcoin Trojan horse? Have we moved it inside the walls? Yeah, absolutely. It is. Yeah, it's it's it's but it doesn't come. You know, moving the Trojan horse wasn't just safe. Like it wasn't like a guaranteed winning strategy. Once you're inside the walls, you're in enemy territory and you could easily be slaughtered. So so you know, be careful. It's not time to just relax and think that everything's safe and it's only a number go up technology from here on in. Yeah, we definitely in the belly of the beast now. Like I said before, there can be a lot of manipulation. There can be naked short selling. There can be, you know, there's infinite amounts of ways because the Federal Reserve can print infinite amounts of money. And and so yeah, we'll see what happens. I like that you've brought in the Trojan horse analogy here. Thomas, it's good. Oh, this is an exciting time for Bitcoin. Like you say, Josh, we're inside there. We're waiting to see what's going to happen. Remember one of the things that's going to happen with Bitcoin and this is much like Jesus originally said when he said, you know, you're going to betray me and all those things. There's going to be a point in your life where you say Bitcoin's gone government. This Bitcoin, it's not the old Bitcoin that I used to know back when it was libertarian and cypherponkin only for us kids on the internet. You're going to be like, this is too corporate. It's too wall street. It's to this. And that's again, where like Victoria said, these different properties of Bitcoin that fit together like a Swiss army knife are going to come out again. And they're going to be like, oh, what do you mean you can take the Bitcoin and send it to anyone? What do you mean our chief security officer just ran off with the Bitcoin? How much do you run off with all of it? You mean he stole all of it? What do you mean? And these kind of problems are going to come up to them like you say, Josh, this re-hypothication. If they print too many fake Bitcoins, one of them is going to have a margin call. They're going to be like, oh, we have to pay out 20 Bitcoin, but we only own 10. And they're going to have problems with that and they're going to have to go to the market and then eventually with the halving system. They'll be less Bitcoin on the market. They're going to have to pay more, maybe more than they'd like. Maybe it messes up their profit schedule. But again, the worst thing would be if it messed up their control over money, which we've seen is a hallmark of our times since the Federal Reserve and so on and so forth. Well, don't worry. If they re-hypothicate 10X and realize that everyone wants out, they'll just make it short sell it right down 10X down and then be able to pay everyone out. This is the sort of manipulation that's now possible. So just be a little bit wary. And yeah, I mean, it's like that cool band that you thought was cool and then they've sold out. Did has Satoshi sold out for us? Tell us, let us know in the chat. Has Satoshi sold out? Are we now a sell out? Well, they used to picture Satoshi as the kind old Japanese man or the all-knowing matrix character. But now, yes, Josh, you picture Satoshi in a business suit with the rich sunglasses in a fancy car. Because clearly, he, she, they, it, space alien must be profiting. Now that Bitcoin is such an important financial vehicle, not like before when it was dirty drug money. And you internet people used to use it, not like that. Not like that. Satoshi is now choking on Gary Gensel's knob. They're friends, man. They went to school together. Anyway, check out worldcryptonenetwork.com. We've got 3488 videos. You could watch them. They're three months, 18 days and zero hours without sleeping. And that would be quite an accomplishment. What a feat. That would be three months of worldcryptonenetwork content straight. And finally issue four, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink sees value in spot Ethereum ETF, following the successful Bitcoin launch. Yes, the CEO of BlackRock is back again in an article written by James Hunt, no relation. And he says that Ethereum as predicted on this show would make a mighty fine ETF. I remember even going back, we watched that original show from eight years ago. And tone Vays said, well, but the problem is if they allow a Bitcoin ETF, they're going to have to allow a Litecoin and a prime coin and world coin, the original and all the other coins we used to talk about back then as an ETF. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about the potential for an Ethereum ETF? Yeah, it's absolutely possible. I give it like a, I don't know, maybe a 50, 70, 80% chance that that'll happen by mid this year, around about June, July, something like that, May, June, July, because there isn't much difference really to the financial market. Sure, there's a lot of difference for those that know technically and everything else and philosophically. But the biggest issue that I see for Ethereum on this is that being proof of stake, these large whales that these ETFs become enable for voting rights. This isn't particularly the case with Bitcoin. You have to be a minor to really have ultimate say. So when Ethereum collects vast amounts, when some party collects vast amounts of Ethereum, they also collect vast amounts of votes purely by staking that. In the network and voting on it. So I think it could also, like there's multiple parts, there's a very, very complex tapestry of thoughts that go into that. Because in one way, governments around the world will want to have a say. So they will try to collect as much into their coffers as possible into something that's proof of stake. And it becomes a race condition where who can vote the right way. But then again, maybe all governments want the same thing. So it's okay for the US purely to get it and crush it. Because that will send a signal to the other cryptos to say, don't mess with us. Otherwise, we're going to create an ETF out of you and destroy you. So I don't know. Or none of this is applicable. And we've already got large whales like Coinbase and Binance and such. So if you look at the spread between Bitcoin miners, it's not that many pools. Of course, those pools are made of very a lot of different miners and people. Some of them are centralized pools. That, sorry, some of them are centralized miners. They're not pools. They're just single-handed miners. Whereas the Ethereum mechanism allows for very, very large holders to control the markets. So we'll see. We'll see. It's a very, very interesting time. Definitely one of these things where it's kind of a cascading domino of news and hype. You know, you could say, oh, the Bitcoin ETF. Yeah, price goes up. That's now happened. What's the next thing? Ethereum will never mention the Bitcoin ETF again. Ethereum ETF, Ethereum, that happens. What's after that? I don't know. Like, Bitcoin cash, Litecoin, it's just like a non-stop road to every sort of ETF. Actually, what I feel is probably going to happen is and let's see if the SEC will do with this. But they will launch Bitcoin ETF, Ethereum, and then there'll be a general crypto ETF, which will then just have everything. As more of a fund, you know, like an index fund. I feel like they had something like that back on cryptocurrency. Like, you could invest in the top five cryptos as like a one package thing. Do remember that, yeah, cryptocurrency, I'm pretty sure it was. They were way ahead of that time when, Lail, cryptocurrency. It does seem like, Josh is saying, though, that the Bitcoin ETF solved all the hard problems. Who's going to hold the currency? Who's going to tell us the price? Who's going to sell this? All these kind of things. And then whatever comes next, Ethereum or Litecoin or whatever the next ETF is, will just follow this template that Bitcoin has set out. So it is a lot easier for them. The path looks good. Dan, Eve, what do you think about the potential for an Ethereum ETF? Well, you know, BlackRock's already, they've already applied, right? So, you know, this is the Bitcoin ETF was one more notch on their successful ETF application bedpost. So, like, isn't it still one over one in 590 or something with rejection rates? So, yeah, they're probably going to get it pushed through. And like you said, they've got the template now. The stencil papers all laid out. They just need to kind of change the ticker and a few other things. I think Josh made a good point about the proof of stake and how that's open to manipulation. But then I suppose there's always still the argument that in order to manipulate, based on how you'll prove your stake, right, proof of stake, it means that you've got to kind of shit on your own doorstep and do something risky for the asset that you hold so much swing with, which kind of would be bad for the asset that you hold so much swing with. So, there's kind of incentives not to mess with, you know, trying to attack the chain and re-organize, that do these things because, you know, you're only going to be risking your own asset. But the main thing for Bitcoin is that we're 95 days away from Harvarding, which is obviously, and then it's going to be in the end of November, which is currently scheduled for April 17th, 2024. So, no doubt we'll have some sort of big old party going on. It is a, what is the, this 17th of April is a, it's a boy in the States midweek. So, we'll have to put some sort of special got to have Harvarding by. And then also, again, the hash rate is, it's like 24 hour hash rate has been 580 x-hashes on being a very chance, which is insane. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But those are trying to understand that. Yeah. It's insane. Absolutely insane. Difficulties like an all-time high as well of like 72 trillion all those got like a 7% scale. Sorry, a difficulty just on the same percent. But yeah, so things are really pumping in the mining industry right now. So, yeah, it's going to be a huge, huge year for Bitcoin 2024. It does seem a lot like those band magazines and they have no loyalty. They were talking about how great the Bitcoin ETF was last month. But next month, it's going to be all, oh, Ethereum ETF. And oh, they've got the new sounds and check out Vitalik's cool collar and all this kind of stuff. The new magazines with the hip, new stories. Well, it seems like the news of the Ethereum ETF potential like wasn't priced in because it's kind of stolen the line high from Bitcoin a bit. Hasn't it? Like the seven day on Bitcoin down 1.4%, 300% Ethereum's up 12%. And that came out of left field of Larry being so positive about Ethereum a few days after the Bitcoin won. You know, when down. To the Ethereum pump. Yeah, yeah, to the Ethereum pump. Maybe that's going to have a gold candle candle. And all it's going to take is less than a, dare I say it, less than a 3X. And Bitcoin might remain at the same price. And then we could see a fippling. That would be just one hell of a crazy ass 2024. That's for sure. And did it seem like quite a. They really want. Yeah, quite a surprise on the Bitcoin ETF day that Ethereum was up and Bitcoin which down, which would make no sense unless you watch this show and you were new to bet on the next thing because you always got to keep the thing moving, right? You got to be ahead of the game. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the Ethereum ETF and other altcoin possibilities in the future? Oh, nothing surprises me anymore. And none of them would surprise me anymore. I mean, I wouldn't surprise if the entire of the coin market cap ends up as ETFs at this rate. You know, it's end of the thing. I mean, they're going to pull every single trick out of the book. And it's like, you know, Ethereum, you know, if they could get, if they could flip in Ethereum and Bitcoin and then, you know, have the proof of stake protocol. The one as the more valuable asset. I mean, they've got all sorts of scape, you know, with their unlimited resources, you know, they could easily give themselves some staking votes and game over. But, you know, those of us who understand know that Bitcoin is like to be the true winner, you know, the fundamentals of the day. We may not win straight away. It may be a hard battle, but we will get there in the end. Moving on to the exit question, Josh Agala forced prediction, which will come first, Ethereum ETF or Ripple ETF? Haha. It's fun. Absolutely the Ethereum ETF. Ripple. I was talking to Adam Stokes yesterday from the Adam Stokes channel, checking out Stokes. He's a great guy, a great financial analyst. We were talking about XRP and why I'm not bullish and why I've never really been bullish on XRP. It's because I don't care about what banks use in their back end. Like I don't care. And it's totally intransparent. Like I would not know how many banks are actually going to use it or how many will use it or where they are. I don't know. Bitcoin or Ethereum. I know exactly what's happening. How many there are there and how many people are using it? What what it is? Dan Eave forced prediction, Ripple or Ethereum ETF up next. It's going to be ETF. Black rock already behind it. We're probably going to see a last minute launch of other applications as well to try and get in on the same boat. Victoria Jones, they said that Ripple is for banks. It's the bank cryptocurrency. Maybe Ripple will have the next ETF. Well, if Ripple is kind of like the back end infrastructure for the banks, maybe not. I think Ethereum is much more connected to things like supply chains and things like that. So I think it's probably more appropriate linked to commodities and apart from anything else, you know, Larry Fink clearly has a lot of power. So if that's the next one he's mentioned, my bet would be on that. That's all we need to get approved is the power of Larry Fink. Moving on to issue five bonus issue. Bitcoin's ETF start was terribly unsuccessful. Says CNBC's round new or newer. Ron doesn't like Bitcoin to begin with. And he says that it went down again. Dan Eve, what do you think was the Bitcoin ETF failure or success? Or we don't know yet? Is it because he's more of a more positive on Ethereum? He's a general crypto guy. Maybe he was just hoping that the price would pump it. You know, one of the green had the rumors of the green God candles and was maybe a bit disappointed, right? And especially with Ethereum selling the stealing the limelight in terms of price pumping. But ultimately Bitcoin is Bitcoin and it's going to get criticized like from from from all angles from all mainstream angles, even if they are like crypto correspondence. Because it's an easy Bitcoin's an easy thing to pick on. And also it winds up a lot of Max. He doesn't it and laserized people. So people like to antagonize those guys. It says the ETF was terribly unsuccessful, mainly bringing in the $4.5 billion from grayscale Bitcoin trust and not much more. Victoria Jones, what do you think was the Bitcoin ETF a failure? Well, I think it all depends on your perspective, doesn't it really? I mean, if you're expecting a tenant in God candle, then yeah, it definitely wasn't an epic failure. But if you're if you were hoping to insert a parasite into the existing financial system so that Bitcoin's ultimate goals could be achieved, it was an epic success. So just not going to see it overnight. So yeah, that all depends on your perspective. That's my answer. His his girlfriend cut off her toe. They were going to get a Lambo. What do you mean it's unsuccessful? Josh Shagalla, the Bitcoin ETF success or not? I think I think it's successful for Bitcoin to have an ETF in terms of it's just another step in that direction eventually. So you know, it was people first, small freaks like ourselves, then gamblers and speculators and things who need some sort of out, then Lambo people who saw the poker players getting rich off of just storing their wealth in that, then people that actually need to move money internationally and in between there, also people that wanted to buy weed without violence and and people, you know, remittances and then came the bigger players, you know, like micro strategies and some of these larger companies are like, okay, I'm going to build funds. Then came the now now comes the ETFs and BlackRock. After that comes countries and and so, you know, we're a while off yet. So I would say the fact that this is now a milestone, whether the whether the price went up or down doesn't matter, it's a milestone and other ETFs will launch around the world spot ETFs. So it's a milestone. It's it's definitely something that was always going to happen. It's it was written in the tablets on the mountain. But yeah, the next up country, I mean, Bukali was very early before BlackRock. So, you know, his famous tweet there say, wow, we got in before BlackRock. You know, everyone had the opportunity to get in before BlackRock. This is a very rare thing in this in any any asset class. So yeah, the next after that is his country. So it's just playing out. It's just playing out folks. It is the strangest thing, Josh, where you're like, oh, Bitcoin went from a dollar to 300. Is it time to sell yet? Oh, it went to 300 to 1200. Is it time to sell yet? Oh, 50,000 dollars a coin. Is it time to sell yet? And once again, you got to sell. You got to live your life and so forth, not financial advice. But Bitcoin keeps going up that next level. Keep seeming to be there. This last crash all the way down to 17. Some people said it was going to 10 or 12k. It didn't once again last time they said it was going to 1200 dollars. It didn't, but it was a horrible crash. It took years. Might have depressed people out of their lives. People lost money. And now for the most part, it's it's almost back. It's almost restored. But we're running out of time. Let's go to predictions or story of the week. Dan Eve, you're not ready. Let's go to Victoria Johns. You're ready with a prediction or story of the week. Go ahead. Well, it was at least to have a story. I'll tell you what's happening on my website. Last time I think I was on, I predicted that I'd be publishing a news letter on Bitcoin and the welfare system. Anyway, as it turned out, December was mad busy. So I decided rather than issuing something substandard, I put it off for a bit. So I put it off till next Sunday because this week was busy as well. So I might have a chance to do next week. So that's, yeah, that'll be what I'm planning to do the coming week. A prediction and a story of the week. Josh Shagala, go ahead. Yeah, our audit is is done now. We had more than 150, I think maybe even more than 200. I'm not sure. White had hackers trying to try to break into our smart contracts. It was amazing. Super super super cool to find, you know, get feedback from so many great people. 15,000 submissions. So a lot of them are basically newbs who are throwing the code through chat GPT and giving the same nonsense low value. So I'm going to grab a crappy bugs that don't really do anything. So it's going to take the judges a very, very long time to go through it all and and categorize them and and pay out the bounties. I'm really happy we. We had this. It's funny, Josh. You used to get those spam emails and they were written in the bad English. Now you get these kind of chat GPT emails. Not only in this kind of beautiful English, but it has this computer feel to it. So that they can imagine how that would be horrible for the contest in the past. You'd just be like, oh, it's several misspelled words. This is not serious. Now you're like, it makes sense, but, you know, it has circular logic and it doesn't make it doesn't really make sense. If you think about it, but you know, from a cursory glance, that's a lot easier to get by that first level analysis. That's super interesting. Absolutely. It's flipped now. I actually look for spelling mistakes to go, oh, cool. It's a human. Okay. It must be a serious thing. Finally, we're going to get credit for our laziness. It exposes our humanity. Yeah. Go ahead. So. But yeah, it's been, it's been really a wonderful thing to see it get some of the feedback on how to optimize certain aspects of this mic contract. And yeah, it's been great. So once this happens, we'll be repegging the, the Euro S and we're also very close to launching the USDS. We're also launching part of this, this contract audit was to have the, the liquidation contracts done so that the, the TST staking and all these sort of things are happened. And so anyway, what I mean to say is that we've, this hacking event, this white hacking that was really, really fun to do, especially for our, for our lead devs on the team who are, who are just been loving talking to all these people with that mindset, you know, because you sort of in your own silo building building something that you think is cool. And then having all of these people publicly like just trying to trash you is, is, is really fascinating and in a great, a great part of free and open source software, you know, so I, I really like it. And that's the news from from our side. The second part of the news is damn, it's hot here and Australian now. Finally, you know, I, it's been such a cold summer that I thought, man, I didn't know that throwing baked beans on all those paintings would actually work, but it did apparently it, everything's become cooler. So yeah. The heat has returned to Australia and now Dan Eve of prediction or a story of the week go ahead. I'm going to go for something basic. I don't have many stories, any story. So, so, but I think that, oh wait, they're not really had semi story. I do actually. So, but well, first of all, I think there's going to be like a like point ETF or something crazy like a like a shit going to get another one after Ethereum, like inevitably gets approved. But my story of the week is that is that my little dog is he who had had a had a, it's cancel up, but she had it removed and went for key man stuff. And that was like a year and a half ago now, we found some lumps on Christmas, but we had them removed and then not, they're not cancerous. So yeah, I'm really happy about that. So that's my not my news is that my lovely little dog is doing doing really well. And so I'm over absolutely over the way. Well, I'm really really happy to hear about is he that's great. Dan and story of the week more or more Bitcoin movies last week we talked about bit con this incredible story where a company was misidentified from cliff high leading to lots of people investing in them and turns out they were allegedly just mainly just a scam. This week I watched the highest of stakes, the Richard Hart and hex movie. I don't really want to give any spoilers if you haven't gotten a chance to see it. My main opinion of the film is it's a little neutral at the end. It all matters about where you stop your documentary. If you stop your Napoleon documentary halfway through, he's ruling Europe. He's a magnificent ruler. He's the king of the world. If you stop your Napoleon documentary at the end, you know, he's been deposed. He's living on a small island and so forth. So there, their documentary people were buying the hex token at around 41 cents. At the time they stopped their documentary. I think it was around 10 cents. I recently checked it was around 0 0 7. So like 7 10th of a cent. So well down from 41 cents. But then it gets very complicated. It's possible that the people change their color. People change their coins into I want to say it's called pulse chain, which seemed to be an Ethereum copy that again based upon some unlocking mechanisms would someday in the future bring you great wealth. So it's very interesting to compare the two documentaries, a bit conned on Netflix, the highest of stakes. You just kind of have to find on the internet somewhere. But I definitely it's like, actually guys, check him out. Let me know you think it's interesting to see they're both obsessed with these trappings of wealth, the empty trappings, Richard Hart with his designer clothing, the guy in Bitcoin actually being tailored for a suit while he's talking a little bit of Hannibal lector like he's eating a human while he's doing the documentary. It's just very very cold and clinical about stealing people's money. So you guys got to check those out. It's unfortunate. We aren't seeing a positive Bitcoin documentaries that much rather read one about the the programmers or the people that made money or the people that got freedom in Africa or something like that. But unfortunately we're seeing a series of Bitcoin con artist movies. So I hope you guys will check those out. And thanks to everybody for joining us in the chat, giving us a thumbs up down below and pushing subscribe all the YouTube things will be back again next week. So until next time. Bye.