The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last 10 seconds and 10 years, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Are you doing everyone? And I'm Thomas, I'm very Christmas. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Let's see, going live, we're going live on a different one. Check the different stream. Oh, well, I think we're live on one of the streams. Let's see. Yeah, it looks like it's a difference. There it is. It's a different stream. All right. We'll figure that out later. Moving on to issue one. Let's see, first, Josh is here. Issue one, China has flipped on crypto amid huge $1.6 trillion Bitcoin, Ethereum, XRP, and Salona price surge. Yes, China is back. Our friend, who's our friend, who's our enemy, who's our friend is our friend again. Wild rumors of a sovereign Bitcoin bid, China has said that it will place great importance to the development of the crypto industry in the future, despite a ban on crypto trading that crashed the market in 2021. The Chinese have also said that they're pushing forward with development of non func-functional, functional tokens and blockchain based decentralized applications. Hey, that's what I made. So China's making that now too. According to a document published by China's Ministry of Information Technology, Victoria Jones, what do you think of China's return to Bitcoin and their desire to make NFTs? Well, I mean, you know, everyone makes a big fuss. Hi, Josh. Everyone makes a big, everyone makes a big fuss of, you know, China. It's like they do the hokey-cokey. They're in again and they're out again. So I don't know. I mean, the thing is with their surveillance technology, obviously blockchain, you know, has some uses there. And clearly, I think they were the first country to talk about doing a central bank digital currency, central bank bank, you won. So I don't think they ever properly left the blockchain industry. It was Bitcoin that they were trying to ban, obviously, because it's decentralized properties create more of a problem. So I don't know. It's like the media kind of creating a storm in a teacup again, really. I think it's my opinion on it anyway. Josh Shagalla from the standard.io. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you very much. I apologize for my lateness. Josh, what do you think about China? They're back again and this time in inclusion to their CBD. See as Victoria mentioned, they also want to make NFTs. Yeah, it's fascinating. The old China thing is that it's the, I actually don't celebrate this because it's only a matter of time until they ban it again because the CCP loves to put out press releases because what they'll do is they'll buy it up. I would have press release about how they hate it. Sorry, buy up shorts. Put a press release how they hate it. They'll short it. I bet you they're playing this game on the inside. I'm not saying the government tried to make money. They got enough. But I think there's players inside the CCP that realize how fun it is to make massive amounts of money by basically controlling the market through the press. And I think we're going to see a lot more of this. And I think we're going to see a lot more of this coming out of the states as well with these ETFs and BlackRock doing the same. Again, this is unregulated markets. You can use the media to basically set up your purchase and your sales for you. If you see a massive uptick, anything, oh, now's the time to get in. Don't take this as any financial advice. But I would tell my good friends to just if there's an uptick, wait until there's a downtick, and then maybe purchase them because there will be. I agree, Josh. China's definitely not our friend in any of this. As Victoria said, they're much more likely to favor their own coins, some kind of Chinese, CBDC or a Chinese version of Bitcoin or now, maybe even a Chinese version of Ethereum, complete with NFTs. I wonder if they'll take a copy of the current NFTs with them. That would be just their style as they have no respect for copyright laws. I think we're going to see this problem continue. But once again, I agree with Josh. They're not our friend. They'll make it go up and down. And in the end, they'll fund their own currency. They'll fund their own markets. Their own startups. And we're back to Silicon Valley again, where the guy made Chinese copies of all the American and other apps. And we might see that with Bitcoin, a Chinese coin base. Exit question, Victoria Jones, will China be getting big into Bitcoin? Will they change the market in the next six months, a year, or we won't even notice? I think, well, if you're just talking about the Chinese government, probably not, but I think the Chinese people have always been interested in Bitcoin. I mean, they love the technology. Often you've got these really remote miners who are using it to help make their energy production more efficient. I remember one ago, Andrea Santanopoulos, using these examples in many of his talks and so I don't know. I mean, the media is only ever giving you a snapshot of what's actually happening. And it's all based on what the government's doing, which isn't necessarily a reflection of what the people are doing. I mean, I remember having this conversation with an accountant a while ago, where he was talking about the fact that China was a communist country. And I was like, well, just because the legal system is communist doesn't mean that's what the people believe. Sometimes if you live in a communist country, that makes you very aware of why capitalism is a good idea. So I don't know. I would never trust the media in terms of giving you an overall impression, because just from the people that we meet ourselves, these conferences, the individual people are a lot smarter than the media give us credit for. I think there's way more going on behind the scenes than the media can even tell us right now. Yeah, here. It does seem like China is going for a worst of both worlds response with the worst of capitalism and the worst of communism combined together. Josh, should go, do you think China will make a big splash on the market in the next six months? A year or we won't even notice it's already been absorbed by the market? No, I think we'll see a big splash. I do. But the splash comes, you know, when something falls into water, it dips down. It comes back up at dipstown again. There's ripples. There's the market, you know, the crypto market as a general is not huge yet, even though people see billions locked up and this and that. A lot of those numbers are all nonsense numbers. That because we use, we've somehow settled on the market cap metric, which is a nonsense metric because if I make a billion tokens and sell one to Thomas for a dollar, does that make my market cap now a billion? Well, officially, yes. So I think it's really, yeah, it's not that liquid. And if we see vast amounts of funds coming into BlackRock, and then we see vast amounts of funds from China, yeah, I think we're going to see an up and down. And it's always hard to pinpoint who's to blame for a correction or for whatever, you know, the media loves, that's another thing the media loves to do is point their finger at some sort of thing and say, that's the reason it went up. Or that's the reason it went down. And we all know the thing is that a lot of the time, there's a lot of bots that are looking at semantics on Twitter or something like that. And they might see some negative news and then end up selling, which then triggers another bot to sell. And it's a sort of cascading up or down effect. And yeah, so yes, short answer, yes, one answer, ramble. Well, according to TechDev on Twitter, the entire Bitcoin market is just a four-year liquidity cycle that happens naturally in the rest of the economy. And we just saw all time a high for the Dow Jones. Will we see an all time high for Bitcoin next? Moving on to issue two, BlackRock, Nasdaq, SEC, Met, regarding Bitcoin ETF. This is the second meeting in a month between the two parties about rule changes required to list the Bitcoin ETF. But no one cares. They just want a Bitcoin ETF. They want it yesterday. They want the people to be able to invest their stock market money into Bitcoin. Josh Shagalli, we talk about it every week. When will the Bitcoin ETF be getting here? Which week in January? And how exciting and ecstatic will we feel when it happens? Yeah, I think it should happen probably, it's definitely in the first quarter of 2024. Right, like there are already options for people that want to buy kind of an ETF almost. Like micro strategies is kind of an ETF. It's a company that has basically just bought Bitcoin and that's how they, that's their balance sheet. I think for a true ETF to launch its first quarter next year, the SEC is just a complete shit show. Gary Gensler is a shit show. They don't know what they're doing. They're just sort of, it's actually, to me, it looks like corruption, transparent corruption. Like you can see this guy, it doesn't know what he's talking about because he's flip flops every week about something. And then BlackRock comes, you know, there's been companies that are smaller, like very scale and some others have tried different ETFs, always rejected. What for? Basically because the SEC is not ready or doesn't understand it. And then BlackRock comes along once there is and yeah, all of a sudden it's all right now. And now Nasdaq is getting involved because it's a tech stock officially, kind of sort of obviously. And I don't know. I find it all very, very typical Wall Street insider mates rates. You know, let's sort of this, this nepotistic, awful sort of vibe I get from the ETF. But it'll happen, it'll happen. And it'll, whether it's in January or February, I'm not sure, but yeah, that'll definitely happen. I do think it's also Josh that he has just an impossible job. We talked about him wanting to regulate Bitcoin and not just Bitcoin, but crypto and all of the defying, all of that stuff. And then out of left field suddenly he wants to regulate AI as well. And so if your job is to regulate crypto, defying and AI, it doesn't matter if you're well-meaning, if you're corrupt or whatever, anything, it's not going to work out. It's impossible. It's like he's juggling and there's too many balls in the air. And they just keep giving him more balls. What I see that's fascinating is that in Germany, the regulators all want to pass the buck. They don't want to have anything. They're like, it's that department's job. It's no, no, no, it's that regulator's job. Everyone's like, no, no, it's a commodity, no, no, it's a currency. They don't want, where is an America? It seems to be like, yeah, yeah, we've got to regulate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's ours. Oh, it's the commodity exchange commission. Yeah, yeah, no, no, the crypto is definitely our thing to regulate. They're saying, no, no, no, no, no, it's our thing. And then they're like, oh, it's yours and our thing. The Pylon rules, and this is where it gets really ridiculous. The SSE will come up with a rule like Bitcoin has to be purple or whatever. And then security is a strange commission to say, well, Bitcoin has to be blue. And both have to equal the same rule at the same, like the different rules at the same time. And and Paul Coinbase is trying to, you know, juggle between this nonsense. And then on top of that, you add state law and state regulatory, money transmitter stuff. And yeah, you got a whole, like the, the, the US is almost impossible to negotiate through all these ridiculous nonsense rules that, you know, imagine when the internet came out, you said, well, we have to regulate this. This is our department's thing. And, oh, there's 200 million websites popping up every day. Doesn't matter. We can do it. Like, it's just stupid. Victoria Jones to pile on the SEC's meeting with everybody about the Bitcoin ETF. What do you think? Well, you know, I'm going to be very controversial. I think something will happen that will stop it going through because because the thing is a Bitcoin ETF has the potential to bring down the entire financial system. And I know they've got ETFs in other countries. But having, you know, America is, the US dollar is currently the de facto world reserve currency. And so to have one in the US dollar is hugely significant for bad reasons as well as, I mean, I know a lot of people are excited about it because they think that the, the, you know, the price is going to go up. But I mean, some of the other articles that, you know, is not on the list to discuss tonight. I mean, some people are suggesting that the moment the B, the ETF is approved, you know, the US government's then going to say, right, you know, you can trade Bitcoin, but only in the ETF, everything else is banned. I mean, the thing is they're, they're fighting a losing battle. The fact that Bitcoin exists completely disrupts not just our current financial system because the way the current financial system works also supports the way the legal system works. And so it's very chicken and egg. It's, you know, Bitcoin has a potential to bring them both down because they just both become the way they currently operate both become completely ineffective. And so I think there's a lot of political pressure for an ETF, but, you know, I think if, if anyone who still has a lot of power in Washington wants to continue, hold that power, they will do everything that they can to stop it. So even though everyone's talking about it and getting excited about it, I, I think something will happen at the last minute that'll stop it game three. That's my personal belief. So well, finally, some contrarian views on this show. I think it's going to go through and like you say, though, it would be amazing to have the first ETF approved for a software that was written by an anonymous space alien. I mean, we have no idea who wrote this thing. They still haven't come forward all these years later. And we're just going to trust them with an ETF and let them be traded on the stock market. So you got to like that. Let's go to the exit question. Josh, you got to compete against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the source of all truth of all so powerful it can break the green screen behind me. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I reckon we'll see a higher Bitcoin next week. Victoria Jones higher or lower. I don't know. I'm going to I'm going to be contrarian again and say, lower. So all contrarian show here are shaking the ball. Could cause bubbles. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? It is certain. It is certain. A Merry Christmas for Bitcoin from the ball. Moving on to issue three. Argentina's new government gives an early nod to Bitcoin says crypto can be used in contracts. Oh, thanks. That's nice. Meanwhile, the streets of Argentina are rupt with anger against the new Malay proposals. They don't like him devaluing the currency, reducing their savings as well as drastic cuts to public spending. Victoria Jones, what do you think about the situation in Argentina? Everyone wants them to switch to a Bitcoin standard. He seems to prefer a dollar standard. But recently he said that you can use Bitcoin if you want. Yeah, I mean, you know, we live in a time where politicians just aren't going to be able to win. Because the trouble is, you know, the moment you start messing with people's money or cutting back public services, you know, in order to balance things out, someone has to lose. And so whoever's going to lose is always going to be the one protesting. And so they're fighting whatever they do, they're fighting a losing battle. I mean, I know a lot of people were very excited about Malay being made prime minister. But of course, you know, most of us went to the Bitcoin because we know what the problems are with the US dollar. So from to then kind of go, well, okay, we're now going to use the US dollar. It's like, dude, I have no idea what you're doing. So and then of course, you know, he starts to mess with the public services. It's like he's not going to renew the contracts of, you know, some of the government workers and the prices for the things they've rely on go up. I mean, basically people want to be able to buy more and have more services. And for their money to work. And the thing is it doesn't you can't have both, you know, the only reason they can pay for those public services is because they've messed with the money. You know, if they hadn't done that, we wouldn't be able to have them. So and that's the case across the world. So, you know, it's, you know, I totally understand why they're upset. You know, I think every politician, you know, why would anyone want that job? You know, you're not going to be able to please anybody right now. You know, you don't have the tools to achieve anything. You know, I just, what a waste of effort. You know, good luck. But yeah, yeah. Josh Shagala, the Libertarian Dream is on fire in Argentina. You got to remember that Argentina has been very socialist for a very long time now. And what, one of the things that happens is that it robs people of their entrepreneurial spirit. And so people bet are used to the government supplying everything and having an epic safety net or a very strongly perceived safety net. The thing was that Argentinian economy has been suffering for a very long time. It's getting worse and worse. When you're, when you're sick, sometimes you need a fever. And the fever is horrible to go through. But the fever kills the bacteria or the virus that you're suffering with. And, and so it's painful to go through that. But that's just what you have to do to get through. And if you have a pain killer, well, you might not, you might not actually kill the bacteria and then you're sicker longer. And so, and I saw this with with Hungarian friends that have been through, so check Republic friends, sorry, that have been where their parents have been through communism. And basically that, I remember talking to a friend of mine who whose parents went through it. And they were pissed off at the parents because the parents never taught them about how to start a business, how to do things because they didn't know. That was robbed from them. They weren't allowed to start a business. You were told what you were going to work on. And if you did start a business, it was taken by the government. So, yeah, like Victoria said, being a politician that has to come in and try to say no more, no more, everything free, no more ridiculous departments in the government that that basically have no point to them apart from wasting money. You're going to feel the pain, but these people need to stop looking at government, the people that are demonstrating. Sure, it's pain, and my heart goes out to them because it is horrible. It looks your job and everything. But you need to put on your entrepreneurial hat and get out there and look towards your family and that network, the network that's closer to you, not the network of government because the government has no money. It doesn't produce value. It produces nothing. All it does is take value from entrepreneurs and through inflation by printing it or savers and then create great things like bridges, schools, roads, whatever. The best thing to do and I know this is really tough because it's only really the wealthy that can afford to start a startup because they have their safety net of their own. But it's about saying, oh, look, I see a problem in my local economy. I'm going to just start to offer a solution for that and building business. This is the way that you build wealth. You don't build wealth by demanding the state print more money because you will only get more inflation. The interesting thing is by going on to a different standard by paying your money to the US dollar, which is the plan of Argentina now. You have no ability to print money at that case. So the European Union suffers from this quite a lot. We saw when Greece went through its and Cyprus went through its monetary mayhem. They couldn't just print themselves out of problems. They had to beg the ECB to print the money for them. The ECB went, well, you need to give me that a cropple. They actually handed over real world assets. The ultimate scam. It's the ultimate scam. You have to hand over all these real world assets and we'll print you out some new debt, which you need to also pay back. So when you give up that sovereignty, and so I'm not the biggest fan of paying to the US dollar specifically because the US is printing like mad. They're doing a pretty good job with keeping that ball going, but eventually that you can only kick the can down the road for so long until you do get financial collapse because you've destroyed all the sabers. And whether you do that with open socialism, open communist service promising because government also politicians love to promise things for free because that's how you get votes. Who wouldn't vote for someone who's going to say, I'm going to give you everything for free. Of course you will. How are they going to give it to you? Well, they rob Peter to pay poor. They rob the sabers to buy you those things by printing you money. So yeah, it's going to be a tough road for Argentina. My heart goes out to them. It's not that it doesn't. It's going to be tough, but the only way you get through this is with entrepreneurial spirit and how ever hard that is, it's going to be hard. But I think I think Argentina is going to come out very, very strong. It's going to take about five years, maybe even 10. It could take an entire generation. I think heavier will be, will help get it on the right path. And then the next president will get all the glory for saving everything. So it's tricky. It's tricky. It would be a major change though, Josh, as you're saying right now, the politicians there can print the money. If they switch to the US dollar, they really literally can't print the money. They're handicapped. They're tied down whether it's for entitlement programs, health care, things like that, or if they just want to buy a new warship or fund the economy or fix a hurricane, no matter what the crisis is, they lose that tool, which is also similar to how it could be if Bitcoin was the standard currency around the world. No one would be able to print anything. So these crisis and tragedies would have to rethink or would have a much more limited response to them. Moving on to the exit question, Victoria Jones, forced prediction, Sophie's choice, you have to live in El Salvador with Buckelli or in Argentina with Millay, where do you live? I don't know. Well, I mean, you know, Argentina used to do well in the past. They used to be saying, you know, to be as rich as an Argentine Titan. So, you know, I blame either Peron, that's where it all went wrong. So, you know, considering there might be some class in their history, I'd probably throw my lot with Argentina, but you know, give them a few years to get back on their feet first. She just had too many shoes. It took down the whole economy. Josh Egala, Argentina or El Salvador? Yeah, I think I'd say Argentina is going to be one of the richest lands in the world. Again, and then I'll have a holiday house in Buckelli land. Surprisingly amount of support for Argentina here. I got to stick up for Buckelli. He was first to Bitcoin. Can you call canas in El Salvador? He's offering you guys a sweet passport program or a visa program or maybe it's a residency program. It's definitely not a citizenship program. Oh, but you could come hang out with Buckelli in El Salvador. When I was a kid, I remember one of the children's books I had was a story of an El Salvadorian farmer who suddenly went over this hillock and it was like, it became this volcano that kind of like grew out of the ground. It was a really bizarre story, but for some reason that was the first thing I learned about El Salvador. So, maybe that's in the back of my head. I don't think I'll be circling there any time soon. Well, the waters in May, Antarctica ain't what they ought to. Moving on, check out Tally Coine by DJ Booth as I pointed out this week on Twitter. The tragedy of the commons, Tally Coine is used to raise millions of dollars for the conservative truckers, but can't raise thousands of dollars to support upgrades and DJ Booth. You can donate now on Twitter or at Tally Coine directly right here at Tally Coine. Just click this big yellow donate button, push the button, skip the message, whatever. Doesn't quite work. You send the message, save the message. You can donate to Tally Coine and help DJ Booth at Tally Coine, tallyco.in. Moving on to issue four. Senator Warren's war on crypto, according to at AP underscore abacus on Twitter, Andrew, a few points associated with center Warren and the anti crypto political playbook going forward. Liz will use the spot Bitcoin ETF approvals to her advantage post approvals, though, being increased push by her cabal, the DOJ and the SEC to hammer crypto. Both the Bitcoin ETF and the Ethereum ETFs will be used as we gave you access to legal crypto in the US, but everything else is illegal and evil. As he notes, Liz and Gary don't care about the crypto reply guys, they have an entire media apparatus at their disposal and their control. As Austin Campbell writes at Campbell J Austin, I never thought I would see the day when Elizabeth Warren became a proud champion of big banks. Yet today is that day. Imagine going back to Occupy Wall Street protesters in Zucati Park and showing him what he has in his hands right now, a letter that Elizabeth Warren is sending to crypto companies and lobbying firms. I just think it's worth noting that Elizabeth Warren in the Occupy Wall Street meeting from New Hampshire, from the North Coast, New England was a champion of bank accountability and citizens rights before she became anti crypto. Even John Lennon's son, Sean Lennon has slammed the Bitcoin ban bill by Senator Warren. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about Senator Warren who's no longer hot on the trail of banks, but now is hot on the trail of crypto? It's just so disgusting. The disgusting face, I just don't want to see it. I just think these people, like, as if there's nothing better, as if there's not better problems to go after it. Like maybe pharmaceutical companies that massively war profiteered during the last three years. Like, oh, what about, there's so many things that Elizabeth Warren could be upset about. Yet she goes after math. Oh, math, how terrible. Oh, that people can have digital rights and digital property. How shocking. Better ban it. This person is a megalomaniac. She's despicable in all aspects, in all facets. And I just can't even bear to it. But every time I see something from her, I just think, oh, God, I want to hold up a sign behind her saying, buy a Bitcoin. That's what I want to do. Well, and Josh, if you can imagine, it's almost worse from a liberal perspective, because Elizabeth Warren, as the article says, really was an attacker of banks, a defender of the little people. She was brought into Congress to go after those banks. She brought forward the Consumer Protection Act, other things like this, which do protect consumers, depending upon who the leader is, and if they actually enforce the laws. But yes, it's very sad to see her go this direction. Obviously, corruptly one could say she's paid off or whatever. But yes, I think it's a good old opposition in the beginning. I agree with Josh, though. I mean, they could still be going after the banks. I guess they fixed overdraft fees. So that's enough. They're moving on. They're still insider trading, insider trading in Congress, in firms. And then finally, I just think that crypto and ETF is not crypto. Don't accept Bitcoin in an ETF as your replacement. The whole point and the whole joy of Bitcoin is sending it around. You're sending something around without a third party, without a bank or government or somebody saying that you can or can't send that money. If you want to send it to this group, if you want to send it to that organization, although there may be consequences, you still can send it. And that freedom, that ability to send it, that ability to put a QR code on the end of your video, not just to get over the YouTube taxes, maybe even to get over the other taxes allegedly, or just to have the ability to have some money that's in a different system, a money that's in a class of its own. And you can put the QR code on your poster, on your photographs, on your body, all kinds of places and options where you can use real crypto, something that they would take away from you if they do pull through, as Josh says and say, oh, it's only ETF crypto now. It's only on Coinbase. Victoria Jones, what do you think about Elizabeth Warren and her new attempts to ban Bitcoin? I mean, it is really rather retarded. I mean, I have to say, you know, I mean, clearly, whatever they're doing, they really don't understand what they're doing. I mean, even if, say, she were meant to be successful, it's like prohibition all over again. I mean, you might ban alcohol for a while, but you won't ban it forever ever. And you just send it underground. And then you turn, you know, the United States from being the world reserves currency into being a financial backwater, because this is not something you can stop. It's like being king, can you, thinking that you can stop the tide that's coming in? And you just can't. And there's another analogy. I mean, you know, in Britain, when they first invented cars, they used to have a guy who'd have to walk in front of the car with a red flag to warn them that a car was coming. And you know, because the cars weren't faster than the horses did. I mean, you know, I think it's just something we just have to suck it up, but and just accept the fact that this, this stupidity is going to continue for a while. But ultimately, it won't be successful. So, you know, apart from the fact that, you know, it creates a lot of debate. So people talk about it for a while. But yeah, I think if you've been in Bitcoin for a while, you just roll your eyes and just kind of seriously, how long do we have to deal with this? So I agree, Victoria, it is very much like prohibition. And we keep opening these things as we saw again with the 1970s in the war on drugs. Nonsense, the whole time, the whole time, the Al Capone and prohibition example was there. People could have noted it. And just if they noted today with Biden reducing the sentences for some marijuana offenders, the war on drugs is nonsense. And the war on crypto is also nonsense. Additionally, if you go back to the Occupy Wall Street and what the financial crisis was about, it was really about these companies that took bad mortgages. Excuse me, essentially bad fish put the bad fish in boxes and then mark them as good fish. One of the big points about Bitcoin and original Satoshi crypto back from the day is that when you say I have, you know, 0.01 in my wallet, and I'll send you 0.01, it's all accurate. It all is what it is when you send the Bitcoin around. There's no way to have a system where there's, you know, less Bitcoin or it operates in a different manner. And that's part of why it was discovered, why it was developed. And it's interesting and sad to see Elizabeth Warren from fighting the banks to joining and supporting the banks. Josh, should I go to have more on this issue? Yeah, no, it's fascinating that she was up there, you know, Occupy Wall Street, while there was definitely a a grassroots effort. A lot of it was absolute nonsense as well. And this weird, weird cult like crap involved. Like people would start to say something and then the crowd would rechart it. And it was just sort of creepy and weird. And for me, for my money, they were going after the wrong people. They were there at Wall Street begging the government for more power to control Wall Street. When really it was the politicians all along. It was the politicians all along. You have to occupy the government. That's one. And anyway, there was there was organic swell. And so it got annoying. It got annoying for the establishment by having these parks full of people. Plus it was a potential to spark even further. So I think having Elizabeth Warren coming in as an insider to have to have controlled opposition back then, I think was probably what she was. She was probably controlled opposition all along. She come in, oh yeah, the banks. And then they could then steer the way that the evolution of this thing. But it's, you know, her true colors are coming out now. Like how can you not see her as controlled opposition if what she's saying right now is so is so backward and supporting this nonsense. These banks, I mean, I don't get it. I don't get it. And she needs to be pulled. I think she needs to be pulled into a court or something to really see because it seems massively corrupt. One of the other problems with Occupy Wall Street, as the media always said, is they lacked a coherent message, which I think was part of the media not wanting to actually cover the movement and not wanting to talk about it. They would just say it's leaderless and messageless. Therefore, we can't engage with it when it was actually a larger message that was clear by what was going on in our society. Let's move on to the next topic. Issue five, Bitcoin Ordnals critic caves as Jack Dorsey backed Ocean Mining Pool flips on inscriptions. Bitcoin developer Luke Dashier thought the thought the rise of Ordnals, which he called spam, but now his mining pool is allowing them. Victoria Jones, what do you think of Luke Dashier changing his mind on Bitcoin Ordnals? Yeah, well, I suppose it kind of it's another type of prohibition, isn't it? Trying to censor a decentralized network. It was always going to be on a bit of a hiding to nothing. Decentralization has won out yet again. I'm not a particular fan of Ordnals. I don't really see the point. I do understand why people are concerned about it clogging up the network. We've got this new, fantastic form of money and we really want something that's going to hinder that. But at the same time, if you've got something that's decentralized, it's in the testing stages. I guess it has to be what's the word? It has to be hardened against these things. If it's going to be tested by something like that, this is the time to do it. Even though Bitcoin's already fairly well established and lots of people are invested in it better now than later, if it's going to be a problem that we understand that. So, yeah, I mean, I'm not, mining is not my area of expertise. I wouldn't say Ordnals are particularly my area of expertise either. But I would say, you know, from what I understand, that would be my position on it. It's just like, yeah, that was always going to happen. Yeah, Luke Dashin, Jr's response on this always reminded me of the classic Simpson's mean old man yells at cloud. He had no chance of changing this the whole time. He was very upset. He expressed himself over and over again. But like you said, Victoria, it's a decentralized machine. The Segwit seemed to have allowed this loophole where you could start to sneak things like Ordnals and maybe even Bitcoin stamps into the blockchain. And if you could, then people were going to do it, especially if the prices are low enough or they think that they're going to be valuable enough in the future that it's worth their time. Of course, for me, this is all just hilarious to sit on the sideline and say, hey, remember those fun baseball card collector things I wanted to make back in the day. Well, now they're clogging the blockchain, breaking Bitcoin, causing drama adopted by China. And there's still basketball players collecting them. So it's pretty exciting to see the idea of collectibles have come so far. Josh, what do you think about Ordnals collectibles on Bitcoin? Yeah, it's multi-pronged and it's interesting because Luke Dashin, Jr was always off like he, during the scaling debate, you know, the whole world is fine. Like, keep the block size limit here. And then the others, the big blockers, no, raise it. What are you doing? Make it bigger. We need bigger blocks, otherwise transactions to expensive. And he had Luke, Luke going, make them smaller. Everyone's like, huh? What? Okay, can we? And maybe that was controlled opposition to sort of like rebalance. I don't know. No, I actually like Luke. I like that he, he gives zero fs. And you know, one of the things though is that I don't know about Ordnals. I would be very, very, very scared of investing in Ordnals thinking that they're going to be around forever. Actually, I mean, the, the Ordnals you buy now will be because you can't go back. But it's just a patch. And if the miners decide to upgrade and patch the, the bug that allows people to embed images, you know, actually, Ordnals are for those that don't know. Ordnals are better than than a normal NFT on, on Ethereum because you're actually embedding the actual image into the blockchain. NFTs for those that don't know, all you're doing is embedding a URL that points to an image that's hosted somewhere. And, you know, hopefully it's hosted on a decentralized network. But it doesn't have to be. And so I would be, I'd be a bit scared. Maybe it's a good thing if they patch it. Maybe then the Ordnals that are out now will be even more valuable because, hey, you know, it was only a certain amount of time where you could do this. So who knows? But it's, I've said it once and I say again, there's many, many use cases for NFTs, not just pictures and art and collectibles. There are huge, there's a huge swat of things that you can do. On the standard, for instance, we represent debt and collateral as an NFT. So you can lock up funds, borrow against them and then sell your debt, sell your collateralized debt position to somebody else. And we really see this as kind of a primitive block in the DeFi space that maybe other people then allow you to package those debts together similar to what we see on Wall Street except ultimately transparent. So yeah, there's, there's, it's fascinating to see, looked at junior cave on this one. And I think it could be patched. So it's an interesting time, it's an interesting time. The thing is what you got to think is miners need money to keep going. How do you get money if your money Bitcoin, you want those blocks full because Bitcoin, the fee market works in a way like this. If the block is not even like half full, it's cheap. If it's three quarters full, it's cheap. If it's almost full, if it's 99% full, it's still cheap. As soon as it's 100% full, the fee starts to skyrocket because then the market really kicks in and people try to outbid each other all the way up. So, so miners actually like it being full. So this is why maybe we're seeing a change of heart from from the miners and why the bug may never be fixed because they like the, the block's being full. They like the bugged reality better. I don't know. I'm still not sure about ordinals. I'm not entirely sure you get the Satoshi that they say you're getting. It sounds like you get a new Satoshi. And of course, Josh, you know that Curio card NFTs have all their images on IPFS, the inner planetary file system, which kind of backs them up and shares them and keeps them what a corner. How cool is that? Moving on to issue six. I think it is historic crypto Caesar. The silk roads 69,370 Bitcoin are now in US government hands. Yes, the crypto funds once worth $1 billion are now worth $25 or $26 billion. The government still isn't sure what to do with them. They're probably going to auction them off to the highest bidder someone like Tim Traper instead of building 50 Smithsonian museums in 50 states. Victoria Jones, what should the United States government do with all this Bitcoin? Well, of course, as Bitcoin, as we think we should they should probably hold on to them in order to help pay off their extortionate government debt. But you know, there's good chance they won't do that. I really hope they don't try and dump them on the market all at once. That would be a bit of a crisis. Can you imagine ETF cancelled US dumps all their 69,000 Bitcoin? I mean, Bitcoin doesn't going to love that. But yeah, I don't know. It would be interesting to see. I think that's when Andrea says, and I'll be there willing to buy all the bitcoins for a dollar. Bring them all to me. But yeah, I'll show Michael Sailor have a few. Definitely agree, Victoria. It could be a disaster for everyone. The government should hold on to the bitcoins. Like you said, it's like a child with a college loan. If you just hold Bitcoin long enough, maybe you could pay it off for the first time ever. Maybe there was hope for the US government. If only they would hold these 69,000 Bitcoins or at least build 50 Smithsonian museums in 50 states. Josh Agala, what should the US government do with all this Bitcoin? Well, they confiscated it from the very first drug marketplace because drug marketplaces to them the worst thing ever. And we saw what was the standard as name. It was obsessed with super. I think it was a Chuck Schumer. Yeah, a Chuck Schumer. You know, make this obsession with shutting it down. Okay, fair enough. That's what you want to do. Well, if you're going to confiscate all the money, why don't you help use that money to help drug addicts or people suffering from family breakdowns due to drugs or something like that? No, they're just going to keep it and not know what to do with it. I mean, you could air drop it onto every American citizen maybe or you could do all sorts of things. But my take is that they should probably help people that are suffering from drug abuse to try to help these people because it's a mental illness, if you will. But no, no, none of this stuff is actually for what they say it is. It is that they don't want competition for big farmer. They want big farmer to control substances and medicine and they don't want a free market. But they've gone fight wars in the name of free markets. I agree, Josh, especially with Biden pardoning the nonviolent marijuana offenders today. And everyone knows the Silk Road was mainly used to transfer large amounts of cannabis from person to person without violence. Maybe they could give it to some of the victims of their marijuana laws. But we know they won't. So, but let's move on. We're running out of time. Oh, I was also going to quote, of course, the good old Conan O'Brien classic, the monorail episode from the Simpsons, a town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel. He don't know how he got it and he don't know what it's for. All right, we're running out of time. Victoria, are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. So, story of the week, I don't think I've been on since I published my latest newsletter, which is about Bitcoin and debt. So that just goes into the history of debt and how it originally erased. That's quite an interesting story. A few facts in there that people haven't come across before, like the fact that Henry VIII was the first person to completely overspend his currency to such an extent it was actually Elizabeth I, one of her main tasks when she became Queen was having to issue all the debt again. So that was quite interesting. That's going to be a brief for everyone until New Year's Eve when I'm due to publish my next one, which I'm hoping to be on the welfare system. So, yeah, look out for that. That sounds great. Everyone can check that out at Satoshi's page. Yeah. All right, Josh, a golem prediction or a story of the week? Go ahead. Yeah, story of the week is basically, so for those that have been following the standard, we had a breach in not in any of the code in some of the logic that we that we had. So we patched that very quickly with great meetings with Chainlink and with with ArbTrum and all the rest of the different teams that are basically, you know, these are all decentralized things. So it's it was it was tricky, but we patched it and now we're going through a massive audit. There is still one of the one of the effects of that breach was a DPEG. There is way more collateral backing it. So I don't know why it's staying DPEGed. Basically, it's some clown that just is trying to like mess with the system. The thing is that where we have a whole roadmap on how to bring that repack up, it's not that hard to do. It's just we don't want to do it until we have the audit done. So starting on the 28th, we have a competitive audit with hundreds of hackers trying to break the standard. And so obviously, we don't want to put a lot of capital in and repag and all that stuff as a community yet. So we're waiting for that. So the PPEG is almost backup of anyway. Yes. So, you know, it's it's an interesting time. That's for sure. I'm really looking forward to this competitive audit run by Cypheren. And if you're a hacker type, you're at home over the holiday periods and you want to try and win some bounties by finding things, it's run by Cypheren by Code Hawks. And it's going to be it's going to be really great where it's going to be a whole event. But yeah, for those that are keep nagging like, oh, what's with the peg? I'm not worried about the peg. I'm just not even focused on it because it's if by the way, if it's actually good for you if you have debt out on the stand because you can pay your debt offered at a discount right now because it's DPEG. So you can buy off and pay your debt back. So there's no one really should be complaining. I don't know why they are, but it's it's annoying. I know. But it's also part of the Christmas and stuff where people are on holidays and people say no one's developing everyone wants a little break. We are still a very fledgling starting thing. But it's it'll be fascinating to see this this Code Hawks audit go through. I'm really excited about it. It's we're at the frontier. We're really at the frontier of of of of interesting economic theory and yeah, battling against the central bank. So let's see how we go. Well, it sounds exciting, Josh. There's always something going on at the standard.io. It's a lot to take in. Good job, General. Yes. Fighting that peg. But yeah, just the story of the week is it's Christmas time. Even if you don't celebrate the holidays, it's nice to get together with your family, have a nice meal, spend some time maybe call them up on the phone or the Zoom device. If you live far away, that's a good idea. It's always good to reach out to people. I just want to thank everybody for joining us this year. Unlike the radio people who quit a week ago or the TV people who quit this week, we're still here this week. And our goal is to be here again next week for our year ends spectacular. I think it falls pretty well this year between Christmas and New Year. Sometimes we have to take a day off if it falls directly on Christmas or New Year's. But it looks good this year. I think we're on schedule. So join us next week. Be sure to brainstorm now what your best Bitcoin company was, what your best stories of the year or something you remember, something you want to mention in the chat for next week. Enjoy this next week because until then, we're out of time. So until next time, bye bye.