The Bitcoin group, the American original for over the last 10 years, the sharpest Satoshi's the best Bitcoin's the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Hello there, everyone. I'll be right. Josh Egala from the standard dot IO. He's looking at you, kid. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the world crypto network moving on to issue one issue one secret sovereign bid. Is this the real shock reason behind the huge $1.5 trillion Bitcoin Ethereum XRP and crypto price boom? As usual Forbes magazine is taking it easy on the headlines, letting you know that it could be a sovereign wealth from from from from from Qatar that is front running the ETF buying the Bitcoin before the news is confirmed that could have caused the recent price surge. As I'm sure you know, many of the chart watchers out there claimed once again that the price of Bitcoin would retrace all the way to $10,000. Just like last time they claimed it would retrace to $1200. The price of Bitcoin went to about $17,000, but not as low as 10. Dan Eve, what do you think about this recent news that a Qatar sovereign wealth fund could be buying Bitcoin and other cryptos leading to the recent surge? It's it's pretty viable, isn't it? Like if if Qatar was such a powerhouse financial powerhouse compared to say, El Salvador, the starting to enter in the market, then you know, they've got a huge amount of money there from from oil to be investing and spreading their wealth elsewhere, right? So it seems like a good option for for them to diversify, especially the there's been to all of them meeting with the neighbor Kelly, so the leaders, so there could be there definitely could be someone on the books there. But it's again, it's all these things turning into a perfect storm, right? The things coming out of left field that we didn't see obviously we know about the harvining and we know about the ETF news, but now we're hearing about these other things in the woodwork, which really are of equal importance. It would be huge if Qatar certified Bitcoin as legal tender, you know, that would be incredible because yeah, they're so huge compared to El Salvador and El Salvador is now leading, you know, leading by example in this Bitcoin experiment, they're finally in the green as well, so all those years of people laughing at them, their experiment is now actually panning out and isn't, isn't it fabulous, ready to see that happen because it's always sad when people, especially big organizations like the IMF, etc, try and bully smaller countries. And now this, this tiny country that adopted the Bitcoin standard is now looking pretty good, especially is, you know, before we've even hit the harvining when things get real crazy. So the fact that they're back in the green that other countries are looking into it, we've got this perfect storm of the Bitcoin ETFs, you know, these rumors are getting stronger. So maybe it isn't actually the news of the ETFs that's pumping things, maybe the Qatar news is also contributing significantly. And yeah, we're going to see some real crazy prices before, before the end of the year. Oh, we've talked many times on this show and others how there simply aren't enough Bitcoin in the world for every millionaire in the world to have one. There's only 21 million Bitcoin. There's way more millionaires. And as we see with this Qatar story, if one sovereign wealth fund goes from Qatar, as Dan said, a very wealthy country, a lot of wealthy oil money in there, if one fund invests, the other funds are going to have to follow. Even if they put a smaller amount in, just trying it out, tipping their toes in, if all the sovereign wealth funds all tip their toes in at the same time, the price is going to rise. If some of them buy heavy as it seems this fund has allegedly done, the price of Bitcoin and others will rise. It does seem like Dan said, we're approaching a perfect storm with institutional investors, sovereign wealth funds and the havining coming up. Josh, Gala, what do you think about the news that it could be a single Qatar sovereign wealth fund causing all the price spike? Well, let's put it this way. Sovereign health funds aren't stupid enough to cause price spikes. They buy up in ways that doesn't cause massive price spikes. They are well connected to cause some fun in the market, drop down the price, maybe buy up through some over the counter deals, go directly to miners. They don't, like, sorry, this is just typical market, just ridiculous headlines. Look, the fact of the matter is we're heading towards the havining. There's, it's been a mega, mega, mega long bear market. All of the hands that are left holding are diamond-encrusted hands that cannot bend and cannot let go. The paper hands let go miles back in time that way. And so what have you got left? You got a whole bunch of people that don't want to sell and a whole lot of, and those people are very, very well, they believe in the fundamentals of Bitcoin. I do want to correct you there, Thomas. There is enough Bitcoin for every millionaire because it's divisible. In fact, you could use, if there was only one Bitcoin in the world, that's still enough for every millionaire. It's just that it would get divided smaller. So yeah, like, this is basically the market. There definitely might be a component where these sovereign health funds might be buying up. I don't know. But to look for reasons, single reasons for these green ticks is ridiculous. They might be part of the story, but I think it's fundamentally just, it's getting time. There's a lot of hype about these ETFs. People are buying. And I am a strong believer in actually the grassroots more than these massive funds in a way. Of course, they're very powerful these funds. They have a lot of capital. But you never underestimate the crowd. How vast the crowd is. All buying a little bit. You've just seen some of those, like some of those political demos where you just see a sea of people for miles. You can't see the end. All just buying ten bucks or fifteen bucks worth, right? It's vast amounts of money. And so yeah, I just don't buy that it's this one single health fund. I think it's just a natural cycle. We're heading into crypto spring and we're heading up. Yeah, I don't think there's a specific, this funds done it. I think there may be a bit of a ripple of news of Qatar. They're going to be clever. They'll be buying it off the dark market. They'll be buying it off of P2P right and they won't be buying it off straight off of the Binance. But maybe people finding out the news right there are close to it. They're like, okay, right, Qatar's going to get in the game. I might as well just stock up. Maybe that might be enough to move the market. So considering how the volume of Bitcoin nowadays would have to be a huge amount. So maybe it's just a perfect, a perfect storm. But Qatar's, Qatar's GDP is 180 billion and El Salvador's is just under 30. So you've got like a six X GDP country that's looking into Bitcoin. So that's definitely a good thing overall. It has been interesting lately. The media says that the price of Bitcoin's up, but that the hype around Bitcoin is not. So we're not seeing normal people buying. We're not seeing large scale buying as Josh and Dan said, I think it says guys with the diamond hands out there that they're not going to let any Bitcoin go so that that's tightening the supply, the have anings tightening the supply. And like Josh said, a real professional like BlackRock, they started buying in 2022 or earlier for their ETF plans that look like 2024. So we're talking about companies that can work years in advance. So it is unlikely unless there was just a fat finger or somebody in a sovereign wealth fund just gave up and started buying on the open market. It is likely it could be something else. I know on Twitter that tech dev has said that this is not even anything to do with the halving. It's just a normal 3.5 year monetary cycle that Bitcoin seems to be linked up with. And it might not even be the halving is just that every three and a half years people start to get money. They start to invest in things and one of the things they buy is Bitcoin. But we all know what really moves the market. What really controls the price of Bitcoin and predicted it again correctly last week. The Bitcoin predictor ball. Dan Eve. Well, the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week. Oh, it's not going to be low only this Christmas. It's going to be higher. Josh, a guy higher or lower. I'm going to say there's going to be a little bit of correction this week. Will the ball agree? Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? My reply is no. My reply is no. The Bitcoin ball agrees with Josh. Perhaps we will have a correction moving on to issue two Bitcoin having is poised to unleash Darwinism on the Bitcoin miners. Strong miners might be about to eat the weak ones as the reward for mining Bitcoin gets cut in half. Yes, the happening is coming and as promised, we're going to talk about it pretty much every week until it happens in April or May of 2024. But now coin desk is talking about it as well, talking about the Bitcoin miners that might be wiped out by the happening as well as the string of mergers and acquisitions as larger firms are buying up smaller firms to get more of that sweet, sweet Bitcoin mining money. Josh, Shagall, we've come a long way from people mining in their homes, having horrible miners that made noise during their movies. I was just sitting in the living room today wondering where that sound was and not missing it. Do you have professional miners and mining companies? Do you think that they're all going to merge together? Are they all going to buy each other up? It could definitely happen. Miners traditionally, even back when Bitcoin was $1, was not profitable. You had to hold Bitcoin for a while until you collected enough and Bitcoin went up enough to then sell and pay for the electricity. So you basically just had to hold long enough so you could pay for the electricity with the upswing now. I would say Darwinism happens way more when prices are in decline, when you're going through a bear market. That's when that happens. I don't know what coin desk or the intestine group or their logo really looks like an intestine. But they should know better. When the price rises, yes, there's going to be a harboring. That's the whole point. The price rises. That's the Darwinism. That's the side of the Darwinism that they're not talking about. The Darwinism really happens on the price decline when that happens. Mostly what will happen is that the price usually goes up. That's the pressure because these miners, they have a business plan. They understand they need to hold. The other part of the equation is that miners aren't just generally speaking aren't just one group. That's definitely a part of it. There are miners that are single group that own the whole lot. But a lot of the pools are still individual miners that have maybe 20, 8, 6 or something. They get it back out and they join a pool. I don't know what the latest stats are because I would find that really interesting. Maybe someone still has that. How many miners make up? It's hard to find that data because it's hard to detect. How many of these miners are just pools of smaller miners? And pools were famously invented by the Trezor guys slush back in the day. I think a lot of the miners are still decentralized and spread out, but they can join at a centralized unit. The good thing with that is it's software. It's very easy to switch if there's a bad actor and they could all just switch to other pools. Dan, Eve, what do you think? Are company minds Bitcoin, my company minds Bitcoin? Maybe we should just merge. Seems simpler. Well, definitely with Josh and the bare markets are surely the ones to watch out for because they've and they're the kind of biggest driver of companies going bust because they can no longer afford the resources that they paid for. Especially ones that have perhaps brought their electricity up front and they can no longer afford it with the price of Bitcoin dropping. But there's also the other kind of evolutionary element that the article didn't sort of mention either which is when the technology improves. Especially if a huge new batch of miners that's much more efficient than the last one comes out. And especially if that mining company can start we weaning them in while still using the other miners especially if they're in a situation where they've got extraordinarily cheap electricity to free electricity and a bit more space in the warehouse than you can start putting in these new miners setting these new miners up and having your old ones running and concurrently until the scenario changes that they're too inefficient to run. So that's kind of quite a big part of the evolutionary arms race of mining is the technology behind it. And I've got started a few times where there's many big where we're say allegedly kind of five prefixes that say bit main for example would be running these new miners that would just crap on the previous edition of miners and they'd be you know they'd be literally running them. And I even got a few actually D3's there were X11 miners some not Bitcoin ones but were the same scenario happening Bitcoin where they'd run the miners in the warehouse and you can tell because they're dusty by the time they catch you. So there's probably potentially that's still happening where the mining technology companies are having a negative impact on the actual mining companies because they're creating these brand spanking new really efficient machines and running them before the miners can get their hands on them. So the tech definitely feeds it into the arms race and I think also just said yeah the bear market and not being able to survive the upfront the cost for electricity and other resources. That's an old game that leads all the way back to butterfly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Running and saying they have to test the miners that way they have to see if they work they have to put a couple coins through them. Yes. Well, let's move on to the exit question. Josh, we seem to talk about this every happening. What's your favorite having hysteria? Obviously all the Bitcoin miners are going to go bankrupt because the rewards going down by 50% maybe the chain will shut off. Maybe there'll be other exciting events that are happening because of the Bitcoin having. Josh, what do you think is what's the scariest thing that the media has to warn us about the having? Oh, look, it happens every time. And what I've seen really intelligent well versed OGs in the space. Get up there with a straight face and give PowerPoint presentations about the complexity of how the complexities of game theory are going to break down and we're going to burn into it to a downward spiral because you know, miners are going to get it off and this and that and the reward and the whole thing. Yet every time all that happens is that it goes up. So don't listen to the fard. Or you can listen to it if you want. It's up to you. But basically it happens every time. I don't listen to it. I like the idea that you can't change the time or the speed of the happening. I'm sure the media would say, oh, it's maybe it's not a good time for a Bitcoin happening or maybe you'd want to do this six months down the line. Everyone's like, well, maybe the Bitcoin coders will get together and change their mind. But every time it happens on clockwork on the same block, like it's supposed to, like it says in the code, it's very difficult to change the code of Bitcoin. It's not like just you buy a bunch of guys of pizza and they're like, okay, we'll change the code for you this time. But only because you got us that good pizza, you know, it's actually easy to change the code. It's hard for everybody to accept the changes. And that's that's what people don't understand. Like people go, oh, well, there's still one GitHub repo. You're like, okay, fine. Let's consider that some guy goes in there and goes, okay, instead of every four years, let's make it every 20 seconds that it halves. So everybody that runs a full note and runs a mighter has to go there, download the upgrade and install it. And there's a lot of conversations going a total amount of like thousands of anons around the world going, no, no. Very hard to get them all to agree. And still green piece hasn't even submitted a poll request to change Bitcoin to proof of stake. And it's not about it, but they still haven't submitted a poll request. And Eve, what's your having hysteria? What does the media need to warn us about next? Well, it does really seem like the environmental narrative is kind of fading away, especially with a lot more of the research that's coming out and probably some additional funding and backhanders from the people who want their ETFs to do well. And the deep fakes of credit saying it's all good now. Oh, yeah, yeah. But there's still going to be people that believe it. Boyle's the ocean's a blood borough and has all this negative impact. But we are seeing less of those articles. And that's good. So now we're just moving on to, we're going back to Jamie Dimon Fardor. We're not going to have any Charlie Munga Fard anymore, RLP. So maybe there's maybe the new one's Warren Buffett's retired as well from Bartlett halfway. They may have a U turn and start buying into Bitcoin themselves. He knows. And not just Bitcoin bank banking companies. Well, and as predicted right here on this show, all of the environmental Fard went away just as soon as BlackRock and the others found a use for Bitcoin. Now that the bankers find it useful, suddenly, it's not a problem for the environment. It was only when you, you computer geeks and you libertarians. That's when it was crap. Now that it's a banker coin, Bitcoin is sweet. Moving on to issue three, BlackRock CEO Larry Fink, Lycan's crypto to digitizing gold, praises Bitcoin as an international asset, quoting Andreas Antonopoulos from 10 years ago, or more. As Dan said, Charlie Munger, who hated Bitcoin and called it rat poison is dead. Meanwhile, Jamie Diamond wants to kill off Bitcoin. Warren Buffett hates it, but Bitcoin seems to be invincible and now has powerful friends like the CEO of BlackRock who's trying to make an ETF. Dan, Eve, what do you think about our new friends in the business sector as well as our old friends, Jamie Diamond and Rest in Peace, Charlie Munger? Well, you know, everyone used to hate on the old traditional list, but it's got a good thing to have the fake Mike ster on board, saying positive things about Bitcoin and, you know, likening it to gold, which is something that specifically many of the traditional financiers would be interested in and can compare it to, right? Because the hardest thing about Bitcoin is to explain it as a technology, but where old old school asset managers can compare it to something like gold, it becomes a lot easier for people to understand. I think even that article explains how gold value is based on his scarcity and, you know, obviously, there's very much like that for Bitcoin. So it's good to have think things are on board. I mean, Jamie Diamond's still going to be this guy that kind of, you know, I see him almost as a Peter Schiff kind of guy because he's still not really, he doesn't say anything positive about Bitcoin. I mean, there was obviously, Jamie Morgan, a time when they said that anyone who traded Bitcoin would be fired, they'd be sacked and let go of and they banned any, you know, personal, which is really odd for a company doing, you know, you can't personally trade Bitcoin, you'll be let go of. That's pretty insane and a very aggressive move. I don't think there's many assets that you can think of where, you know, you know, you would be fired for trading them by banks. So that was pretty out there. So Jamie Diamond, I don't think it's going to be a long time until we have him on board. His daughter was trading it for a while so she didn't manage to sway him round. But maybe this is just all part of the act, right? This is just all part of the, he's a traditional finance guy. He's trying to play hardball with Bitcoin. And there was a bit of a, was there a hearing with, with Elizabeth Warren, and she was talking, you know, questioning him about, about Bitcoin. So maybe he is on that camp at the moment. I dread to think what kind of, what kind of donations are happening just to make Bitcoin sound sound bad. But we'll see, we'll see. I think, I think, think, think, think, can, can sway a few more people, man, for sure, than Diamond. Oh, with friends like these. And it is so funny, Dan, as you said, Jamie Diamond hates Bitcoin. As the article notes, his company, Chase Manhattan Bank, has pretty much become a blockchain company. They're doing all this blockchain stuff with the settlements and the other layers and those kind of things. But he hates the Bitcoin. So we're back to that classic blockchain versus Bitcoin argument that we've had so many times. Josh Shagall, what do you think of our new friends in finance? And of course, the sad passing of some of our old friends who also left along with Henry Kissinger. Yeah, look, first I just want to quickly say we've got a goal now, 50 thumbs up, 50 thumbs up we can make it, folks, hit smash annihilate that thumbs up button with the power of 6000 thumbs. Yeah, so I think it's really, you know, it is what it is. Life cycles, Charlie Munger's gone, all the old, no, is Munger gone? Did Munger leave? Yes, Charlie Munger passed away. I think he was over 100 years old and credible. That's right. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's always good to have. And the sending voices, I think it's really, really good. You don't want to be in an echo chamber. It's nice to hear alternative voices. I still like Peter Schiff actually. I think he's a bit of a fraud in terms of there's not fraud, but I think he's a market, I think he's using Bitcoin as marketing and buying up in the background. I don't think he's, but it's treated him well. It's done him good. He used to move the markets by fighting on it. But nowadays he just, yeah, if he says anything about a Bitcoin, no one really reacts anymore because he's played that card too many times and everyone knows he's just buying up every dip. So yeah. He's a, he's a block tease. Yeah, he's a block tease. But yeah, but a blockchain, not Bitcoin, it's ridiculous. It's, you know, it's like I'm really, really love poker guys. It's such a good game. I don't think playing cards are very interesting at all playing cards are boring. They don't really have any use in the future, but poker, amazing. Well, these are some of the best poker players around, but we're moving on to the next issue. Check out worldcryptonetwork.com where we now have Bitcoin shorts. Yes, the AI has created many great shorts with many great clickable titles such as is Dogecoin as worthy as an ETF as Bitcoin, why selling 25 billion dollars of Bitcoin is tougher than you think and Bitcoin revolutionizing gaming, zappity makes it. Fantastic work computer. Check it out at worldcryptonetwork.com and here on YouTube. Moving on to issue four, El Salvador unveils the BTC freedom visa, but it's 10 times the cost of others. The same citizen via investment schemes in nearby Caribbean nation started $100,000 and one EU country had a citizenship pathway for just over 800 K. They're back on top on their Bitcoin investment and now they're looking for more of your sweet money. Dan Eave, what do you think of El Salvador costing 10 times more than other countries? It must be 10 times as good. Yes, it's a lot more especially compared to Europe, compared to some places in Europe, especially the Caribbean. And the fact that it hasn't got a huge amount of passport power at the moment is not like you're getting shengen, send in access to access into Europe. But they're trying to raise a billion for the country itself. These are more of a VIP passport because it's the novelty of the first Bitcoin nation. It's almost like being, they should dare I say, they should have done these passports as NFTs. Shouldn't they have done that? I'm sort of NFT on the ordinary one Bitcoin, but the Maxis wouldn't want that. We are being told that NFT trading is banned in El Salvador. The land of the free has banned NFT trading. Oh, it doesn't mean that's, it's very much, you know why? Because it's very much in line with free markets and stuff. Oh, it's nice. It's nice. It's angry, angry, angry, maximalism, isn't it? But all part of the fun they can do what they want, you know, it's just kind of odd to believe in something like Bitcoin, which is a sense of free, censorship free and free market style and then to kind of put restrictions on it. But hey, it's all part of the fun. But yeah, these, I think these are more novelty-based passports, you know, for fundraising rather than actually being a useful kind of passport to get you access around the world and stuff like that. That's a lot of money for a novelty passport. Maybe I could just print my own. Every time we talk about this guy, I'm reminded of that episode of The Simpsons where Homer went to work for the James Bond villain. And he's the nicest guy and he's shaking hands. He's like, of course, we have healthcare and child care. Yeah, this is a fantastic place to work. He's like firing missiles and he's walking by this and that. And it's just like this guy's he's trying to raise a billion dollars. He's got a volcano powered Bitcoin mining city. And the whole time I'm just sitting there thinking, how many Bitcoin fit in a suit case? If this guy decides to run off with the wealth of this country, how much of it can he fit into a suit case or even God forbid up his butt? So I just think we've got a real problem here with the potential loss for this country. We'll see how it turns out. I hate to be the voice of reason in advance, but at a certain point, that's a lot of Bitcoin that you could fit into your sock. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about El Salvador offering a visa that's 10 times the cost of others and perhaps not any better? Yeah, I mean, there's there's cons and pros of buying visas. I think it's it's definitely an option. I think passports are very handy to have. You should treat them like Pokemon and get as many as you can because you never know. And it's good to have different different passports. So that you have choices in life. But yeah, the prices, prices extraordinary for this one. So I would like to see what they do with those funds. Like it would be great if they say, hey, it's 800K, but we buy like three miners for that and run them for a year or something. And I know there's something that's sort of used for sort of in there. Well, we build hospitals or something, it goes towards a hospital fund or say, I don't know, I would yeah, any time that there's money extracted for this sort of thing, I think, yeah, I'm a big fan of meritocracy. So I think having people migrate through merit is much better than through money. Although money is a type of merit, I guess if you've got it, you've done something good usually unless you've inherited it. But yeah, choose wisely folks where you spend. Exit question, what's your favorite Bitcoin experiment? Do you like the Bitcoin experiment in El Salvador with naive bouquette? Do you like Michael sailor who's running the country, the company micro strategy on the basic idea of buying, buying, buying Bitcoin? Or do you like the new libertarian in Argentina? I think his name is Malay who might even shut down the central bank. Dan Eve, what do you think about all the exciting libertarian Bitcoin experiments going on? I think the Qatar seems like the one to watch. Argentina, he seems a bit less pro Bitcoin since he's come in, obviously, apart from the abolishing the central bank. So I'm going with El Salvador because I just like the fact that they're in the green now and they're starting to put on a egg on the IMF and the international banks, Selman, all those kind of regulatory boards and everyone that laughed at them and all these other international agencies. So they're definitely showing their positive investment now. And remember, if you flee with money while your country's in the green, you get to stay on a higher floor in the UAE or perhaps Dubai. Josh Shagalla, what do you think? What's the most exciting Bitcoin experiment going on today? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't call El Salvador libertarian as such if they're going to ban you from trading NFTs. I mean, that seems very weird. But yeah, I actually, I like the Argentinian guy, what he says, you know, me being sort of an archa-capitalist, as much as philosophically speaking. But I just don't trust politicians. Generally, yes, he's not a career politician, so that gives him a couple of points. But this politics in general tends to corrupt. And it's just, it's not like there's one head that you can just exchange. And then the entire system that's built in underneath can like just evaporate the unelected system or the deep status, you know, some people call it. It's a whole mechanism that's there. It's very, very difficult to dislodge that. And they all have political leanings and this and the other thing. But you know, this is why I'm not the biggest fan of politics because you exchanged the head. But actually, it's all the unelected stuff that's way more powerful than you as the head. Because they just, there's so many roadblocks in the way to get rid of the thousands of people working in different departments and things. But well, let's see, you never know. You never know. I would like to see, you know, it was nice to see, you know, words like the anarcho-capitalist. Like when do you see that word in like mainstream news like DW News would say, say that word? Oh, man, this is, I'm living in strange times. I never would have thought that they even know what that word is. So yeah, I'm going to go with Argentina on this one. I'd like to predict a doom, doom and doom for all three of these projects. As before, I think with El Salvador, the dictator runs off with the money that's simple or maybe somebody in his family, you know, what a surprise. They figured out the code. It was one, two, three, four, not a fan of the Argentinian experiment. It sounds fun on the paper. Like let's get rid of the central bank, but like Joshua, they're not changing any of the underlying conditions. They don't necessarily have a better plan switching to the dollar. Yes, cuts off the head of that government, but then just gives the power to the American government. And now you're under the control of whether America prints or doesn't print switching to Bitcoin's a much more interesting idea, which was brought up briefly and then quickly taken away. Maybe the IMF said no. I'm a fan of micro strategy. I think it's a very simple idea and I like it for that. It reminds me of the Ponzi scheme pirate at 40 where the guy just said he would buy more Bitcoin with the money and buy more Bitcoin, which would have worked if he actually bought the Bitcoin again with micro strategy. The most likely failed condition is that they lose access to the coins or that the coins are stolen from them. It does seem unlikely that they'd sell, but the key to a good prediction is lots of drama. And that's why I'm predicting doom, doom, doom. And we'll see how it goes on the other side when the libertarians are crying over their failed experiments. Moving on to issue five bonus issue Bitcoin custodian, whatever that means, Noster assets pauses deposits after reaching maximum capacity. Please refrain from deposits at the moment inbound at max capacity wrote one community manager. The group Noster assets has taken the name Noster and has raised allegedly $11.8 million using the name. They seem unrelated to the Noster project and in fact fiat jav the creator of the Noster protocol, which allows users to interchange their social profiles and followers on different platforms alleged that the Noster asset team was operating as an affinity scam. Noster assets has nothing to do with the Noster protocol itself. It borrows Noster in naming. You should not deposit any sets to this platform. Dan Eve, what do you think about Noster assets and their $11.8 million raise? Well, someone was going to do it right. The name Noster isn't kind of copyrighted. It is. So someone's going to come along. It's kind of open source of cloneable and you can just use the name. Just as people have used Bitcoin to create their Bitcoin fakes, their Bitcoin scams. You almost wonder whether doing it tokenizing in some, or ascitising in some form of honourable and legitimate way would have been a good option for them to prevent or reduce the impact of fakes. But it was going to happen, right? Well, when there's going to be people that can mint tokens and whilst it's permissionless, you're going to find these these same brand names occurring. And we've seen that many times in the clones of the crypto world. And obviously in the old school ways, it was just before King, but now, you know, you can also just pretty much call something the same roughly the same name, even if it's using a different consensus mechanism or whatever. So it was bound to happen whether you're four or against ordinary rules. There's still lots of good arguments as to why using all the blocks basis actually a good idea for subsidising miners. And there's obviously some people that absolutely hate it like you to share who really can't stand it when when nodes do they trick is they trick our nose to go in to holding JPEGs. So yeah, you know, there's obviously two sides of the fence. One's going to win out, right? And it hasn't the ordinary market breached a billion dollars now is it was meant to be dying, but it's growing. So there is an announcement that I think Christie's is going to have their first ordinal sale. So the famous auction house is respecting Bitcoin ordinals now as well. Yeah. So again, that's the free markets working, working with whatever they can to make somebody and make some profit. Yeah. So the inevitability happened just like Bitcoin. It was inevitable that Bitcoin would be cloned into shit coins and terrible clones, unfortunately, but that's the joy of permissionless being permissionless. You can't stop anyone from from doing it. You can try these censorship tactics, but then you're kind of going against the morals and principles of what Bitcoin stands for anyway. Well, I just think this is sad because I know that Ben and Fiat Jaff and the Noster guys could really use the 11 million dollars to create more things for a Noster. I don't know anything about the Noster assets group. For all I know, they're good guys and they're going to spend it on development. This is going to turn out just fine. But for all we know, this goes straight into Lamborghini's and Ferraris. It's very unfortunate when a group like Noster doesn't jump on the token opportunity. I think that Fiat Jaff and Ben and others probably said, oh, we're kind of too good for a token. We don't want to, you know, solely ourselves with an ICO or a token. But if you don't jump into that space and so many people want to invest in Noster, they see this thing come along with the same name, Noster assets. They assume they're investing in Noster and they throw their money in. And thus the money doesn't go to the hardworking people who build the platform. It goes to the hardworking scammers who build the scam allegedly don't know anything about this company. But I just think it's sad. And of course, reminds me of WB8's when the best lack all conviction and the worst are full of a passionate intensity. Josh Chagalla, what do you think about Noster assets and 11 million dollars perhaps taken off the board, not for development? You know what I find really fascinating about this space is that legitimate projects, like the ones that we've built over the years and Noster and all of these projects find it really difficult to raise money. Like it's a hard process. It's a long slog. It drives you insane. And then somehow out of nowhere pop these things where someone just takes the name like an affinity scam like Dogecoin and then there was the Shibu Inu suddenly just boom or with Bitcoin cash when they launched they didn't know when that forked off. We didn't know whether it would be BCC or BCH. And there was another little known protocol way down the market cap thousands down with the BCC ticker called Bitcoin, called a BitConnect. And suddenly they got so much exposure because people like BCC Bitcoin cash BCC and it just pumped this BitConnect into the limelight and then from there it grew it scam out further and further. But these affinity scams pop along out of nowhere seemingly. And I just I find it phenomenal that real projects find it so difficult to raise yet these strange scams where all they've done is sort of slightly tweak the name can just boom to explode. I don't know how they do it. It's amazing to me. It's horrible. But just as a bystander it's quite a fascinating phenomenon I think. I do think one of the ways they do it Josh is they probably have a bunch of upfront capital. Let's say they made 11 million on this maybe they had two or three to begin with. They put those two or three in the no-ster assets allegedly we have no information on this. But they put some money in it looks like there's money in the can and when the next guy comes by he says I don't want to be you know fear of missing out. I don't want to FOMO this. And he puts his money in and the next one puts their money in and pretty soon the three million of fake money like you would if you were a busker on the street you put a little extra in there. Suddenly you got 23 30 million of somebody else's money and pretty soon you're cashing out. But it is sad and it is interesting the way like you said Josh that these these scams or these alleged scams we don't know anything about these people but they can raise so much easier than a serious project. I know with curio cards with pro tip with all the other projects we try to do here even world crypto network. We do the work we put the product out there we put the curio cards out there we put world crypto we put pro tip as open source all these things the work is there clearly we're working people that are going to do work. But then there's no funding whereas these other people which have nothing but maybe a shiny web page and a countdown clock they raise millions and then everyone waits to see if they'll do any work and they just kind of cross their fingers and they hope they say gosh I hope they deliver for us. We don't have any controls on this even though it's cryptographic money they could you know be in a bounty system there could be controls but there's not. Dan you're on this. Was it because like a lot of these projects they're they're kind of you know grass roots movements from the ground up that love the technology or the thing that they're building and they're they're less likely you know to if you compare it to something that's got this huge potential profit increase when they're building noster they're building noster for the for the philosophy for the reasons why they believe that noster is going to change the world whereas a lot of these projects that may raise money they're raising money on the simple whim that they want to be able to make a shield load more money so there's there's much more of a sales tactic going on in terms of buying us an asset or buying as a potential you know investment product whereas these other companies are literally just you know they're just a some guy that wants to make a change in the world and is right in code to do so so there are a lot less kind of arrogant in the way they sell the the the the potential investment right it's almost like even like Satoshi in the old days it's not like he was like this is going to be worth trillions of dollars but you know this is but you'd see that from the average kind of ICO seller at a conference you know trying to go trying to push their their shipcoin whereas whereas Bitcoin is all about the technology and how it's actually going to change the world rather than how Bitcoin is going to make you absolutely shed loads of money and you know should invest now I do think that's part of it Dan the noster people and other people who are writing code or making projects just believe in the project they don't necessarily want to make a lot of money whereas I think these other people come over and maybe they're already skilled at setting up these fundraisers or they're already skilled at setting up podcasts and they come from other industries and they come in a Bitcoin and they say wow I'm going to make so much money in this industry and then that's kind of what they do they don't really make any good products they don't make any interesting content but they make a ton of money and they're great at that so Josh I'm more on this topic no I just I was just agreeing it's it's crazy and ludicrous you know what I find really hard as well in this space is true marketing because there are so many marketing scams out there it's very difficult the marketing scams are absolutely extraordinary and and just in so many numbers like you just can barely find a legit marketing strategy because these people come along all over the place offering their services and they're all just and just fake they put fake traffic fake everything to say look we did it it's really difficult but somehow these scams managed to do the right marketing as well it's phenomenal and I see that on youtube too Josh these videos that are pirate videos or scam videos they do just fine I try to upload my remix videos and they won't accept them so it is very strange how some things rise and some things don't rise but I think we've seen this all before we're running out of time I think we're going to move on to predictions or story of the week Dan Eve are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week well I've got both but sadly you guys still were but maybe it's because I'm not quite over it but I've still got Larry the pigeon just hanging out in the back I need to kind of do something with Paul Larry but I need to be able to let go finally you know just chilling just chilling out the back and suddenly why you gave up I just needed to give a pigeon update because a new one hasn't landed on my lap recently and my prediction will be the Bitcoin is 50k by the end of the year nice and simple woo 50k Josh Egala predictions story of the week or pigeon update well I've got a koala update it's we've we've got a name humfrey now we're awarded 200 TST for the for the guy to name it on twitter it was uh yeah Humfrey still sounds like a murderous freak show in the back I don't know if you've ever heard a koala jump on my twitter if you want to hear him but yeah that's that's that's my updates and yeah I actually with the standard we're releasing stuff every every two weeks now we've got a two week release cycle so it's and we're about to go through an audit um yeah exciting times uh we've we've got we're tweaking the the incentive structures to get people to put liquidity into the dexas so that there's deeper liquidity there for everyone which you know it's all it's all exciting and we're taking steps towards heading towards the decentralized aspect so you know this is what's difficult when you build a new brand new project it has to start off a little bit central level very centralized because it's an idea that we came up with and then you slowly bring in more and more people and more and more community and then it's slowly if the uh yeah build up voting mechanisms and stuff yeah that's really exciting there's there's some really great stuff we talked with uh with the snapshot team who've built a new uh system called O-Snap and it allows for built having a multi-seag wallet treasury wallet that's directly attached to snapshot voting so the community can set up a vote uh vote on it and then the money will automatically be transferred out of that multi-seag to the winner of that vote um and there's some checks and balances in place from the community like if they if the people have to put up a deposit or something like that and if there's a fraudulent one then it can be taken so there's all these uh great things but the the snapshot team have done a really great job and so we're excited to uh look more into that as well as we head into uh into yeah crypto spring and all of that stuff so check us out at the standard IO they always talk about koala's Josh but they never mentioned the sound that they make that sounds terrifying it's terrifying it's really like some psycho murderous freak show rapist in the backyard that's what they just say who what oh yeah it's the koala it'll be safe there with the the gentle sounds of the country uh just a shout out this week too Satoshi sound he was gonna join us today but his wife's not feeling well uh he's working on the new show bitcoin and friends uh i'm sure you guys all watched it last cycle it was kind of like a south park version of bitcoin uh they made a new version it's gonna come out in just a few weeks we hope to get him back on here uh to talk more about the show and to give you guys information about where you can watch it uh but we'll definitely be putting out the links here uh that's about all we got going this week i've been watching a star check uh documentary called uh in the center seat that's been pretty good while fired up about star trek again so thanks so much for joining us be sure to give us a thumbs up down below subscribe if you haven't already and until next time bye bye