The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest citossis, the best bitcoins, the hardest crypto currency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Hi there! Josh Legala from thestandard.io. Howdy, folks! Welcome back! And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one Bitcoin touches a 13 month high as the drumbeat for institutional demand grows louder. As we've been talking about for years, institutional demand, banks and other investment firms buying large amounts of Bitcoin and then trading them amongst themselves has been coming for years and years. But now they say with the BlackRock CEO calling for it and the ETF being launched, it could be here. The cryptocurrency ended the day flat at around 30,302 but it climbed to around 31,450. It's highest level since June 2022. Dan Eave, once again, we're talking about the ETF and we're talking about institutional demand. Are the banks here for Bitcoin? The institutions are coming. Like everyone's kind of, we have kind of, well, a lot of people have been yearning for it for years because it gives that seal of approval, right? But I think what's kind of cool about the current situation is even with BlackRock's like Larry thinks saying that Bitcoin is digitizing it. We might have actually just been crypto. He said Bitcoin is digitizing gold and an international asset. The markets didn't pump that much. It went from like what, 30,500 to 31,000. Imagine if that happened seven years ago. Bitcoin would have doubled in price that would have been like, part is everywhere. Now you see the evolution of the attitude, which is almost one of the institutions to come in and give their stamp. Now the institutions are coming. Everyone's like, screw you crazy institutions. Obviously, there's a lot of fears about market manipulation that might happen that does happen in the existing markets. The SEC's already not given it a rejection in any way, but given kind of constructive criticism, right? Whether there's more to it than just kind of this showcasing, they don't want Bitcoin to pump too much or something crazy. But also, it didn't get Gary Genners there. I don't know. I can't see if it's confirmed yet whether he's resigning. He was rumoured to resign or something like that. There was obviously things like going around like was it because due to being him being a naughty boy, maybe taking some backhanders as it were. I don't know. This is all the speculation on the line. Ultimately, Bitcoin is doing pretty well before this time, before a half-ning. I don't know. It seems like we're doing too good right now. That's a bit of a bit too upbeat. But we're about 50% just under 50% of all time high. And about this time, just under 12 months before the previous ball market, there was still a dip, right? So especially in 2020, there was a dip to like what, 5, 6,000? Might have been less than that. So I think it's a long way to go until the half-ning. But with all these big players coming in from fidelity to Black Rock, it just seems like, I don't know. We're following the yellow brick road right now. Maybe that's too optimistic. Maybe this taco and pizza on my sloth riding at Lama T-shirt is giving me too much optimism. You can't even say, here we go. There it is. Sloth riding at Lama, rainbow trails. But yeah, these are. You disappeared, Dan. You were gone. I know. What I love about when the banks come in is that they always buy other stuff like they're buying Ethereum or they're buying B Cash or they'll pull something out. They'll be like, I want B-Rodium. They'll be like, you crazy banks. What are you doing buying these altcoins? And then years later, we would read about like such and such a bank writing off their loss on B Diamond or B Gold or whatever it may be. Still think it's quite strange that fidelity, you know, with that ESX, the new exchange of fidelity in Citadel and Schwab and Co. They're choosing Bitcoin Cash and like, you know, like coin Ethereum, Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash, it just seems a bit of a strange, you know, I'd more expect them to. I like the name ESX and I like the way that Tesla names their cars, SEXY. And I just think we have a lot of children running these companies. I can't believe they're going to name the exchange. I'm sure FTX means something naughty and I just don't know what it is yet. You can FTX someone. I'm going to FTX you, baby. Cool. Yeah. No, black program. Yeah. Big money. Trillions of dollars. So, you know, some, some love it. Some hate it. But letting all the crazy people out there who would complete no coiners, you think Bitcoin's crazy. Just letting them know that Bitcoin is an international asset as, as, as LASA, good old LASA said. Josh Shagalla, what do you think the banks are here? Obviously, we're going to get addicted to this bank money and then when they decide like Tesla to suddenly pull their money out because Bitcoin could be used for drugs or gambling. We had no idea that this was going on here. What do you think about the institutions and, you know, both the people that want them and then the reality of, do we need them? Do we become addicted? But Josh is still muted. If all of us here, our thesis is correct. It's inevitable that the banks end up accepting Bitcoin and others. So it's more of a... Can you imagine someday you log into your bank account and you want to view your balance in Bitcoin and you like push the button and it's like, this is what you'd have. If you switched, oh, you USD to Bitcoin and you just push the button on the normal. And I think the only thing stopping banks from slowly doing that is time. It just takes time and it is a bit of a sweet thing though because like you stated, it only takes some sort of large government body to go right, no, or, you know, some big bust or maybe a terrorist organization using it or whatever. For them just to go, oh, okay, we better not do that because it's bad for our brand. But it's again, only a matter of time, even time will destroy that because they'll end up taking it again because for global commerce, it just makes sense. And so yeah, I just, it's inevitable. It will happen in the beginning. It will be manipulated. But this is the other thing you've got to realize is that these markets aren't regulated. So what does that actually mean? It doesn't mean that you're that the regulators, they're going to do that thing to stop people getting wrecked. It's that banks, JP Morgan Chase, I mean, we saw Jamie Dio and do this. They basically know that they can control the market by putting foot out there, shorting it, putting foot out there, reaping a massive reward without any regulatory oversight. Even banks can do this. So as banks come in, yeah, we might see a moaning, but I think we'll see an ear thing at the same time. It'll just go bang, bang, bang up and down and it'll be news driven. Now all of a sudden, Jamie Dio and loves it and it's the best thing ever. Next minute, some Warren Buffett just shits all over it. But you know that their asset managers are shorting it, telling them to put a tweet out, buying it up. Look at Elon. I mean, he was doing this all day long on Doge. So it's an un, you know, there's no way to punish large spokespeople, people with huge megaphone and influence from manipulating this market. We always think of wayls as in people with huge amounts of money manipulating the market, huge amounts of Bitcoin or other crypto is manipulating the money that the markets. But actually the voice, having a large magnifier in terms of a voice piece, that's a larger, that's a better way to manipulate the market than being actually having huge pockets. Yeah, so this will happen and at the end of the day, the only thing I can say is just hold on, hold on and DCA, it's for the normal pleb that is slowly collecting crypto, just do that DCA every month, every paycheck by a little bit, not financial advice. Do your own. Of course, I don't know your situation, but general good advice is DCAN, DCA. Yeah, yeah, when the market's going crazy up DCA out and you know, keep on going. Well, and people, Josh, don't have access to the Bitcoin predictor ball. So they're unable to predict the Bitcoin markets to see when it goes up and down before it happens. They could just tune in every Friday though. So make the information is available and everyone push that like button. Now Josh wants to have a like marathon, Josh, about 500 people total watch this show. So 50 of them like it. That's 10%. That's pretty good. Is 50 an acceptable goal, Josh? Yes. I want to see 50 likes. Propagol will start it off probably about 10 people watching right now. So if we get five or six likes, we would be well on our way. We'd be 10% towards our goal of 50. But more importantly, Dan Eve predicting against the price. Of the ball, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I think I think short term we're still going to we still got a little bit of bump to go. Yeah, I think I think I'm up. Man in the taco shirt says up. Josh, Shagala higher or lower? Yeah, if my triangles are correct, I would say up in the next seven days. And here we are, the Bitcoin predictor ball. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? Let's see, hard to see lots of bubbles looking for a clear answer. Most likely, most likely says the Bitcoin predictor ball. And now someone else who seems to think the price of Bitcoin is going up. Larry Fink, the president of BlackRock says that crypto is digitizing gold. And that BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF could help make the sector more democratized. It's funny when we were trying to get Bitcoin into Bitcoin, people into Bitcoin, we were called drug dealers and pirates and anti social libertarian types, suggesting strange Ponzi scheme money. Now that the bankers are here to sell you Bitcoin, they're democratizing and opening up new markets by allowing people to gamble in their crypto casinos. Josh, Shagala, what do you think of our new friend, Larry Fink, who BlackRock once called Bitcoin something horrible? And now there are best buddy. Yeah, I mean, Larry is one of these guys who I think what I think is, what a wonderful name thing is, what a wonderful English name it is. Oh, how wonderful. Oh, how wonderful. Mr. What? Now, look, this guy got very, very lucky by finding an amazing engineer when he got fired from his job on Wall Street. He found an amazing engineer. He was one of the very first pioneers in AI before all of the stuff from OpenAO. I know everything. And basically, BlackRock's success is basically because of artificial intelligence, being able to sift through large amounts of data and make sense of it. And obviously, this little bot has now told him that Bitcoin is digital gold. It's funny, like this CEO says it. And all of a sudden, it's like gospel to the mainstream media. Oh, put it in the headlines. Extra, extra, extra. We know about it. And it's like, oh, these Bitcoin has been saying that for years, let's not actually reach out to them and have them on the show and say, guy, you guys have been on this since 2010. Not never, my phone never call rings. But anyway, whatever. Good on you, Larry. Keep thinking. Well, Larry is a wonderful name to leisure suit Larry, just a classic, classic name here. Dan, if what do you think about our new friend, Larry Finck? He's here to teach us all about Bitcoin. It's a digital gold. Maybe you should have the bank hold your own keys, though. They have some slightly different slogans. I think whenever I think with an F, it always just makes me think of think of an ironhorn, think of an ironhorn from Ace Ventura when he finally I'm horn and think of. I'm horn and think of. She's always crazy about that. I watched that the other day. And it has and the landlord is the guy from the angry landlord of Ace Ventura is the guy from the guy in the wheelchair from breaking bad, like the gangster guy. But that's like 30 years apart. Anyway, but yeah, again, it comes to this, these big wigs, they're slowly turning around to Bitcoin. Again, these aren't small names, even Jamie Dimon sort of. He turns, right? He flip flops a bit. I'm sure he said something positive about Bitcoin in the past. But is it only a matter of what? He flies in these cells. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah, especially when he did that little trick in 2018, 2017, when he, when, when the Swedish version of like JP Morgan, like bought a load of, bought a load of Bitcoin just before he, he crashed the market with his comments. But what's cool? I also like that he says, oh, my daughter has Bitcoin. As if that's not his money. It's like, oh, I accidentally slipped 100 K to my daughters, the kind of thing he does. And he's like, oh, she's investing for me. Is that, is that called something like, what's the word? Bitcoin by proxie? When Charles and by proozer is it? There is a, there is all about nepo babies now. So you'd be some kind of a Bitcoin nepo baby crypto baby. I don't know. They get that they, I'm feeling the gains through my, through my DNA, from my DNA, my genes being passed on. Feeling it. Is how long is it until, until, until Mr Turtle? What's it? I can't remember his name, but, uh, and Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett in the turtle guy. Who's the turtle guy? He looks like a turtle. Mitch McConnell. No, the other, his partner in crime. Am I not totally enough to be in the turtle club? The guy Warren Buffett's like partner. Anyway, um, it's, yeah, you know, it's only a matter of time before they swing round, you know. Everyone starts off on the whole is used for drugs. And then they, they, you know, it's, it's that kind of, that thought process, right? It's like, you hear the shock factor stuff. It scares you away. And think about it from their position. They don't want to be someone who's in a, in a huge, you know, leading a huge firm who's, um, endorsing something that they, there isn't enough evidence for them to be able to make a decision, whether they think that it is being used for nefarious purposes or trust drugs and kidnapping. So they'll see all the headlines and whatever, but they probably won't read the research and, and they're, the sort of in articles that we do that kind of proves these things. Otherwise, that, you know, Bitcoin isn't just used for, for drugs and kidnapping and terrorism and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, they've got to, they've got to protect their, um, protect their, their, their own, um, reputation, right? But the more and more time goes on, that Bitcoin becomes embedded in, in the infrastructure of society, with the boys, um, used by countries. And if we didn't even see the IMF, the IMF recently kind of you turned slightly in their, in their, um, their position on Bitcoin. And yet it's, it's just only a matter of time before they, before they all do. And I, I, I actually didn't think about Tom, when, when you said earlier and it just, it just suddenly blew my mind like, it is going to happen that one day, I'll open up like a big bank app, like HSBC. I'll open up that app and there'll be a Bitcoin balance there. That is going to happen. That, that will happen, um, soon. And they, and they can't wait to sell it to you either, because they'll have this little button. It's just like holding USD and Euro. Like, if you held your savings in Euro, you would have made 25% in the last three months, except they'll say USD, Euro and Bitcoin. And then they'll be like, if you held your savings in Bitcoin or new feature, hold your checking account in Bitcoin, the market goes up and down. It's like a new money market. And then they're like, we just take a little percent. And then when you sell, we take a little percent. And when you screw up because one accounts empty, we're going to take a little percent. And they just love this, this little percent game. And again, I think what's so funny here, and we need to just take a moment. Everyone in the crowd here, if you're watching this show, you're also like a crypto Bitcoin crazy person. You need to say, take a step back and say, now let's dump, let's dunk on the banks. We were completely right. We were completely right this whole time. We were so incredibly right. It's embarrassing. This is like the big short kind of right, where you're like, oh, yeah, all the crazy things they said, blah, blah, blah. And we hear the world crypto network have an incredible chronicle of this happening in real time. Other people joining up, other people also being right, other people making their own YouTube's being right. Like we have a gigantic wave of people that are now, like you may be not right about everything. Let's slow down a little here. But you're right about this one thing. And that's a pretty big thing to be right on. Oh, yeah. Except the sad thing is though, about when the banks finally adopt Bitcoin, is that my balance on my bank account, Bitcoin will always be zero because I will be holding it in my own taco. I mean, hardware wallet or just seed phrase. More importantly, all this Bitcoin stuff will be their idea. Banks have partnered with Bitcoin to bring you incredible new financial technology. Banks are using Bitcoin and all this stuff. They'll never credit any of the early Bitcoiners who they all called drug dealers who they all called Ponzi schemes, who they called like the general, the other one was, it's just too confusing to learn. Bitcoin is a black box that I cannot learn about. It's like everything else in the world. How does this animal work? How does science work? You go read about it, you read a bunch of stuff. You're like, I know a little bit more. Like I could invest in this animal. They're like Bitcoin. That's a black box we can't even look inside. What's crazy is that that's one of the things that they tell a lot of people when I try to convince them to learn about Bitcoin. And I like in my final days of working for a bank, I'm sure it's a bank in that company that I worked in Treasury. And I spent several years learning all these conferences and learning all about the Treasury process. And I was like, this is freaking crazy. And Bitcoin was just a hundred times easier to understand. And that's the weird thing is that people grow up using money without knowing about the background of it. So if you're actually to break down and give someone a five minute lesson about how the current money supply is created and run compared to how Bitcoin is, Bitcoin is infinitely easier to understand. Well, then what's crazy is that the finance people don't understand how money works and they get upset when you explain it. It's like, anything else you're like, the battle of 1812, this happened. That happened. Side fault that's it. No one's like, I'm upset about this. But with the money, they're like, I'm upset. And I have a brick wall. I can't learn anything more. It's too complicated. There's jargon. It's confusing. Josh, what do you think? Good. Yeah, and it's not confusing. It's just laziness, laziness, laziness. I remember one guy I was telling about it in 2014. And he, every time he said to me, yeah, but how do I get it? And I'm like, I explained it to him. Well, you got to do this. Yeah, I don't know. And he's like, oh, okay, okay. Next time I see him a week later, yeah, but the thing is, Josh, how do I get the stuff? I'm like, as I said, and walk through it like pretty much every time I talk to him, he just said, but how do I get it? Like, like he's never asked that before. And after a while, I realized that's just his way of, I didn't be bothered, no worry about it. And then years later, of course, he was pissed off, because even the tiny bit of Bitcoin I gave him was worth a lot. And he screwed up the private keys. So, you know, after a while, I just said. It's so funny, which digital things they will accept. Like, if you go back, you know, in the 1980s and stuff, when I grew up, getting a stock actually could have meant getting a stock certificate. They'd send you a really fancy document in the mail. You'd put it in your safe for whatever, your safe deposit box, and you'd be like, I own this share of Disney. You know, and you'd be a long investor, because you certainly can't trade a piece of paper stock very quickly. But we've completely accepted digital stocks. Like, first, just in our retirement accounts, now in actual accounts that we can manipulate ourselves at the personal whim. You don't have to call your broker or get any advice. You're like, buy Apple, sell Apple, you decide. But when you say the same thing about Bitcoin, you're like, Coinbase is kind of like, e-chade. You hold your Bitcoin in there the way they would hold your stocks in e-chade. They're like, oh, that sounds really confusing and strange. Like you're saying, Josh, they want the physical Bitcoin. Yeah. You should have printed something out and written to it. Here's your Bitcoin. Go buy it now. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you know, we had physical Bitcoins. And the government put a stock to it. So it was too easy. Well, the other fun thing would just be like a certificate that says, you own X number of Bitcoin and it looks like a stock certificate and you could write down on it and be like, here you go. Now you have your Bitcoin. We got to get back on topic here. Exit question, Dan, you forced prediction. Will we get a BlackRock ETF? Yes or no? And take a victory lap for being right about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency when all these banks and all these bank analysts and all these big, short people and small, short people and longs and all the other triangles that they had were wrong. Well, I think like it's with BlackRock's record of getting ETFs approved. I think they've got insanely great odds. But also, if you look at like the fact that they're under what they've got five, is it five, sorry, 11 trillion assets under management and Bitcoin's market cap is currently 588 million, which means that the BlackRock's assets under management are sorry, 18 times the current market cap of the whole market cap of Bitcoin. So these guys have got some swing in the traditional world. There's no doubt about that. And with all the flood of other ETFs, I think it's going to happen. And they should sell all that stuff and buy Bitcoin. Not financial advice BlackRock. Don't be suing me. But yes, it's an obvious play that they're not going to see forever. Josh Jagala, will we get the ETF? And I want to hear more victory lap. I might have to go back to Dan get more victory lap. Yeah, and we'll definitely get an ETF. It's just a matter of a matter of someone bribing Gary Gensler enough. That's what it seems like. Propagol, big shout out to the man, dropping 50 bucks on the show. Thank you very much. If you've got any questions or crazy comments as usual, you know we love you, man. But yeah, it's a matter of time. ETFs don't matter. Don't let it see you away. Just it'll happen when it happens. And and just keep DCAing like I said before. It's not it's not a big deal. All it'll mean is more volatility and and not less. More volatility. How fun it sounds. Sounds like a movie an action film. But let's keep moving. Check out worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got on this day. In 2020, we celebrated the Bitcoin Havning part two. I think we republished it, broke it up into parts. We had an interview with Peter Todd and Dan Eve. Hey, look, here's Dan Eve right here. We had the BTC IoT tutorial with Ben Arck teaching you how to make a lightning node monitor. In 2019, UTXO cleanup soft fork show. We had Victoria Jones proof of work her first computer. Max checked in with how to securely upgrade with Sovy wallet. Max Hillbrand. We also had in 2017 the Bitcoin group number 149. We were talking about the possibility of a $55,000 Bitcoin. We also had today in Bitcoin over on the mad Bitcoin network where it originally started. And in 2014, we had a mad Bitcoin's episode about more Bitcoin stolen. A mini bits about Midas Marnie and a unity evolved radio where mad Bitcoins appeared with Liberty Phoenix and others from the Liberty Movement in New Hampshire. All for free at worldcryptonetwork.com on this day. Moving on to issue three. And it's also a good time to push the like button if you're out there. We had kind of a strange start today. We didn't have the pre start. So we had the quick start. So you might have not gotten here on time. Issue three. State warrants of pig butchering crypto scam after investor loses $40,000. We're going to the great state of Alabama here at al.com where the Alabama Securities Commission has warned of a pig butchering scam. What happens is they fatten up their victims with promises of riches. So at first you donate a small amount of money. Say invest $7,000. They say to you your account is now worth $7 million. You did so well with crypto. Then they say oh to get your $7 million you have to pay $70,000 of fees. Now who wouldn't pay $70,000 of fees to get access to your $7 million. And it turns out the exchange you were on weren't coin base but coin bros or coin base with two ease coin bassy or some kind of thing like that. And whoop they disappear with your money. The state Alabama is warning us about it. Josh, you go what do you think about the pig butchering crypto scam which is a funny name but is not a funny thing. I mean to be honest it sounds like every other scam like you promise big riches in every scam. I don't understand how it's that much. It's all about that back and forth where you give them a little bit of money and then you say in the fake account that it's worth more and you give them a little money. It's that trust kind of thing. But I think they're trying to use maybe a local metaphor to try to bring it home. I'm not sure this is previously called pig butchering but kind of just like you're saying Josh, how you would do a scam. You'd be like oh I loan you five bucks. I loan you ten bucks. I'm so trustworthy. They used to do this on a BTC jam. They would pay off a couple of loans first and you'd be like oh they've got a record. You know you could trust them and you're trying to be good. You couldn't trust them. It was not a good move. Yeah I mean that was always a bit of a strange business model. Yeah. You know there's two major types of scams. One's where they build trust over time and other ones where you get indebted over time and you know it's a sunken cost that you don't want to let go of and you don't want to look stupid. So for instance the Nigerian scam is that right. You use say there's a billion dollars here or whatever. So I'm a huge number and all you need to do is put 50 bucks in this account and that releases because that shows that you've got that account and you're like well 50 bucks for a billion. If it is right then if it isn't well I've lost 50 bucks whatever. So you do it and they're like great it worked. Here's the certificate now what we need to do is that cash needs to first go to that. So you now you just put 150 and then you're like well I've already put 50 but what's 150 more and it just keeps escalating and then next thing you got a mortgage on the house a remorgaged the house and you've just already sunk too much. All your friends have told you how crazy you are. No I'm not crazy and you just go down this spiral. So that's one type of scam. The second type of scam is definitely that scam where they build up trust. And this is this is a typical one on eBay. I mean eBay is a big one for this. They'll get a good rating. They'll get a good rating and then they'll put a big television up or something like that for sale and then they'll rug pull you. So it's you know that there's being online it's kind of it's hard to trust anonymous people like it just is but it's something that is constantly being worked on. The Ring of Trust is a really interesting model where you start to you can still stay private but you show your identity to one of your friends and there's like a ring and you don't want to you know be untrustworthy to your friend. There's all these different models that people have thought about in the especially in cyberpunk and cypherpunk movements. So yeah I think I think these things do have answers to them. But one of the reasons I am short the whole metaverse nonsense is that these scams have become more prolific as people can send out GPT agents to do this dirty work for them. And it's not just send one out it's send a million of them out and that's from one person. Now you're doing you know 10,000 people doing a million agents each. The entire internet is just going to be people fishing, scamming the heck out of people. And so the future basically is going down to the park and listening to someone standing on a crate and debating with them like the old days. But at least they'll have a hard copyright they'll have that print out of their exchange from coin and it'll say that they were worth seven million dollars. Look right here I have the 70 Bitcoin in my account. It's online it's real and it is just so difficult for people that are new to this industry to tell the difference not just say a spelling error like coinbase with too many s's or something like that. But you know bit whatever bit this bit that bit whatever there's always some new exchange they always seem pretty legit even if we're talking crypto here they could put some graphics on the screen put some magic out there and really kind of snow yeah if you're from Alabama you don't you know you're not familiar know oh cracking is legitimate coinbase is legitimate even these words as I say them sound kind of ridiculous if you were a non Bitcoin or especially no offense but you know crack it just any kind of animal as an exchange name just sounds suspect I mean it's nice and short but I mean I think the real true answer to all of this is an arms race with the with AI so having an AI and Windows is doing this it's it's embedding large language models into the operating system so if a large language model was to see an email come through with something that looks like a scam it might pop up and say look do this probably is a scam so you don't fall for it in the first place because it's that hook it's that hook whether it's one of the two styles that I talked about do you imagine the future is is debating back and forth with the chat GPT like no man I want to make a million dollars and imagine it was like a kid doing it he's like you will not make a million dollars Jimmy he's like I want to cut just 20 bucks I sent it to him and I'm going down I can't do that I can't and there's going to be controls like you say Josh on our computers that we would have to talk through or at the worst case it's going to bring up some kind of a horrible contract and it's probably going to be sarcastic about it at that point they'll have the sarcasm in the AI and they're like this stupid idiot human wants to give his money to this slot machine you know knowing that you know I've already told him it's fake and you're going to lose all your money and I'm going to make fun of you and think less of you in the future you know from your computer sign you know dumb idiot I think we'll be right there Josh and I can also see them plowing through I can see if it's a good enough offer it has an animated AI girl that's talking to him it has like they say an aquatine you know some other guy got a Ferrari like they worked at home you know they know that dude like this I think you know people are going to blow past it but yes a series of controls and what a horrible arm race that we're going to start the arms race first of all on one side to create fake information and I was thinking about scammers here and in a way it's kind of exciting like you're saying Josh because they're automating these tools they're hitting large audiences it's kind of like sales they're just really aggressive sales people with a terrible product but to be good at it you know they usually just have to eek out those little percent less than 1 percent greater than 0.5 you know these kind of things if they can get the numbers they need and if they can send out enough stuff and if you think about this web page this fake coin base web page that's automated too right I mean when the guys you know on the phone with you manipulating his website he's not one at a time in there editing the HTML I'm sure he has a database I'm sure he has a fancy looking thing maybe even a login system with the password like you know these people are not just dumb you know it's not just that they have bad they have bad information they're late to the market but these are also very good scammers let's not take away like the two trained in the most deep psychological you know they've read every NLP book under the sunlight they will scam you so much better than a human and you won't even know it's a bot because you know this past the touring test years ago so it's it's a it's a it's a brave new world coming up it's also amazing how many people they could scam at one time like they've got their email gone they got the chat going they're on the phone with one person even they could put you on hold maybe run multiple to these at the same time these are full jobs for people and not offencing India but you know other places like India and so forth where there are factories of these scammers working to rip off essentially elderly Americans and other people from other countries who don't have the natural protections that we hope younger generations would have but it is possible with the new generation to expect anything maybe they have no controls to this too and they could scam them as well but I think we need to hear from Dan Eve what do you think Dan we got some pig butchering going on they've been fattening up the cows so they can take all their money some guy lost 40 grand I was disappointed actually that that pig butchering wasn't part of the actual scam it was just a term for it I was really hoping to hear this ex like this really extravagant crazy story about how some guy was going to invest in in in in in in pig pig butchering via cryptocurrency or something like that and partly because I've been trying to decide what I've been there's people on telegram they pop up all the time they're trying to you know they're always trying to sell you something and and I try and take them along now for my own ride and one of them he was saying the first thing he said was hey how's it going I saw you in the such and such channel when I was like hey I've got a feeling you've got you're going to make me an offer I can't refuse and and then he gave me this sort of count this offer of some sort of investment opportunity where he said it was like a retail site and retail what's it called home retail which is called retail development sort of site anyway and and I thought no I'm going to try and convince you and instead I tried to sign them up to a scheme that I thought outreach sounds quite good there is actually a pig seamen shortage right now so in terms of in terms of being able to inseminate pigs and unfortunately he wasn't coming along for the ride even though I said look you know you want to make me a millionaire how about you and I become the first millionaires from pigs even extract him and he didn't quite get it and then another guy I've been using AI to to convince him that I work at the Vatican and every time I say I'm just about to go and sign up using his refling I sending another picture of the pope doing something like either like surfing or like or like you know firing a gun I'm like oh I'm actually a pope's guard but I might be made redundant so now that I sent him a picture of the pope firing a gun but you just got to make you know have fun with these these these scammers obviously they they try and target other people so I kind of think about is if I take up as much of their time as possible they'll have less time to go and actually screw someone so so that's my he's really sad because I've messaged him in a in a while but yeah I've sent some really cook like kind of a cool sort of pope doing random stuff messages there was actually when I was when I was uh it worked in in a in a night freight which was uh I don't know if I should say the company but it doesn't matter because I think it's been disbanded now and I worked as a data entry lady a data entry person and there was a lady that worked there and and she she she I was asking me about her previous experience and that she you know she'd unfortunately she's quite gullible and she'd been taken for a ride about scams and stuff and I felt really bad but then I'd said that um that I you know live next to a farm and they're really looking out for and she was moaning about the job and I said literally this is why I came up the pixie minikstractor thing I was like oh um so yeah they're looking for pixie minikstractors because the the machinery won't do it the pixie too sensitive and she basically came in at the next day with a tailored CV with like loads of hand job in you endos and I can't tell if she was joking or not but I don't think she was clever enough to be joking lovely lady but anyway but anything anything where someone promises you return so they have they have an orgasm for 20 minutes apparently pix so can't be all that bad that anyone who promises you returns like crazy returns you've just got to ignore them like and that includes the banks right because you can put your your your your money in the bank for these measly savings and and depending on what country you're in they're only insured up to a certain amount I think the UK is 80,000 so you can put your life savings in of like a million if you have that money into into a bank and you're actually only insured up to like 80,000 so so they are ultimately unprotected scams at the end of the day too so don't believe banks don't believe scams don't believe anyone who's saying that that that can just make you crazy money because you you obviously that won't won't happen and one thing other thing is that I read that that with these emails they're always full of mistakes and someone tried to there was like an an article about how the scammers put in mistakes to try and make it believable but at the same time that first of all I thought that sounds quite interesting but then I thought that's ludicrous because if I receive an email from Coinbase as soon as it's got a mistake or whatever service PayPal you know whatever service it is as soon as it's got a mistake you're going to be like oh that's obviously fake rather than the opposite which is that's got a mistake someone yeah that that must be obviously you know PayPal send me the the email so I don't know what it is with that but I like how these scams are they're still evolving right this you it's almost like nostalgia when you see one come through that says like oh I'm the lawyer from John Nekwomo from so and so and he's releasing the $10 billion but they've got the commas in all the wrong places and and you've sent them money before in the past you're like oh it's so fantastic to hear from you again I hope you're enjoying my previous investment additional funds will be sent to the same address like the glory days yeah but yeah don't get screwed don't get screwed by uh by by the scammers just keep keep keep by your sats from legitimate places uh and now is normally the part where we'd have our little chance we'd say oh this is how to avoid scams and these are the things you have to do to be smarter but in reality if you're falling into scams you're probably not watching this show so you're probably finding this after you've already fallen for the scam and now you're like doing your due diligence trying to get the real information be still I want to read anything you want it to be read to you but yes uh instead of talking about scams and giving people advice we're gonna have a moment of sympathy for the people that got scams so uh just as they say in the movie he's nice I tried it what do you do I try to think of someone smarter than myself and then I do what they would do uh this is to all those sad people that got scammed as we're saying it's not your fault the people scamming you are very good at very focused and they work on it all the time like all the time you spend watching TV they're working on scamming you Josh Chagall what do you think a moment of of uh sympathy for the the scammed and uh hope that in the future they haunt all their own keys and you know shop at reputable bitcoin dealers and so forth right yes but before the moment of sympathy I'd like to give a moment of thanks to propagol for dumping another 50 bucks down so uh so you can buy yourself a white shirt and a black microphone um uh yeah no thank you very much propagol you're a gentleman and a squire but yeah a moment of sympathy I'm sorry for all those that got scammed hey you know I mean I lost more money than anyone could ever imagine during the Mt. Gox collapse um it it's part of your journey to uh to discover to touch the candle and understand uh how much it hurts and I hope that it's very little um but that's why it's important when it comes to finances to really read and and and look up and understand the attack vectors that are coming towards you you understand what the scams look like not an exact script of what scams look like but general things so you can readjust because these scams constantly readjust their script and uh and and yeah and now I'm see I instead of sympathizing I'm going into how to avoid them so sorry about that Thomas that did the exact opposite uh but he's something and and then they're they're all saying now they're like oh now he's telling me this oh this is useful now and you know they're they're pausing the video and they're like what day was this and they're like oh this video is 20 years old whoops uh Dan Eve what do you think of moment of sympathy for the scams perhaps a more moment of respect for the scammers for all the hard hours they put into their game I mean you watch all those YouTube videos where the guys are scamming the scammers and like Dan saying they keep them online all day they take over their computers they take over their webcams they get there their whole building shut down the whole floor of scammers disappears and instantly instantly pops up in a hundred other places because if the old people are ripe for the picking which sadly they are then old granny's gonna be going down to the store and putting that box together and mailing out the money because you know you just screwed up a little bit I sent you $70,000 I was only supposed to send you 700 I'm gonna lose my job over this granny I think of you as part of my family I love you we say prayers to you at night granny we need you we need you to go to the supermarket and get a box this size with the tape and I will stay with you on the line granny I'll stay with you I need to keep this job my family my children I have five children think I think of you as a saint think of you as a saint granny so it's not your fault you got fooled plus again like Josh is saying there's there's innate human wiring where someone says I will give you a million dollars for that quarter and you're like that's a good deal I could get a million dollars you know and it's just there's a blank where you're like it doesn't make any sense why would they give me a million dollars for a quarter like that doesn't even come to match you're like that's a sweet quarter Dan what do you think moment of sympathy go ahead and just just imagine they like it really it really upsets me because I think imagine what what these people make a lot of effort they take a lot of time and a lot of effort and some of these scams are really like they're really intricately done especially in terms of like the spoofing sites right where they spoof some sort of like you know staking protocol or something like that there was you know I go and and further for the people a spoofing site would be where like it looks like coin base but it's actually not coin base right and then you log in with your password and surprise now they have your real password and then they go log into your coin base or your bank account so it's a fake fake website because we don't need any fancy hacker jargon here I got I got I was really done back in the day and I got caught out on a mind the wallet scam back when it when you didn't have it was basically just not the pen file was like a JSON file right you you had a JSON file it was really dumb and fortunately I didn't lose a huge huge amount comparison but I just sat there and I thought like more than being scammed I wasn't worried about losing yeah thousands it was more like imagine if what like the site was done so well imagine if that twat had actually done something good like he probably would have made more money like the skills that he had to they they had could have been could have been it actually but probably a heap faster but the skills he had to actually build that website and fake all this stuff like imagine if you put your your your skills to good use you know people would you know it would just be better like just and that's the sad thing it was more than the gut punch of losing a bit of money it was like man all these crap websites I have to deal with with all these bugs and this freaking fake scam website was bug free and so I managed to scam me like what's going on do something good in the world yeah so poor poor drink to my homies that have also been scam hacked and and and whatever yeah oh and Dan that's what I thought of when I watched the wolf of wall street with Leonardo DiCaprio and he's just working so hard to pump these pink slip these penny stocks right and he's just like he goes job to job work to work becomes his own boss gets a whole team of these psychopaths pushing these penny stocks like he will do anything anything to get the money anything except actually make a product that people need and provide it to them at affordable price right anything but a straightforward business I will do and on the other hand if you think of a movie like the pursuit of happiness with Will Smith where the guy is just hustling right he's just cleaning up things being a janitor selling this selling that being a salesman working his way up again honestly through the hard work and sadly our culture kind of rewards the wolf of wall street he's back out there he's being quoted by articles he's been restored by this movie even though the movie at the end pretty much shows you the horror that like for as much excess as they had they still brought him back and had him making speeches and writing books and being a part of the financial system despite this incredible crime that you know when you watch it like you're not even really seeing the other side where some you know sad person somewhere like we're talking about Alabama here sends their ten thousand dollar life savings off to the scam and yes it's just it is amazing the lengths that people go to and that they could build whole enterprises whole exchanges whole you know gambling websites other you know entertainment other ways to make money but they choose the scamming speaking of scammers let's move on to issue four we are never ever getting back together Taylor Swift actually duped by FTX after signing 100 million dollar plus deal we all remember during the time of FTX everyone was trashing on Tom Brady or Shaquille O'Neal or whoever it was that convinced you that was a good exchange maybe it was Mr. Wonderful and all the time there was this undercurrent when they said Taylor Swift said no Taylor Swift is too smart to sign a deal with that crypto huxter Taylor Swift asked intelligent questions that brought her investing advice better than Tom Brady or Shaquille or Neil or whoever your favorite star of the FTX as it turns out and this is amazing because I can't believe they allowed this to happen Taylor Swift's people signed the contract FTX and Sam be it bank and free to allegedly were offering her 100 million dollars for a promotion an incredible amount of money as crusty the clown said they backed a dump truck up to my house a dump truck so yes the amazing thing it's not amazing that they took the 100 million and then in reality as it seems Sam did not pay or Sam backed out after having her beautiful signature on a contract I'd frame that put that on eBay but it's amazing the Taylor and her people signed it it's amazing that they allowed this nonsense to go on where they were like putting out this right I mean like well sorry guys we actually did sign the contract I would have gotten this out sooner waiting forever seems like a bigger story Dan Eve what do you think Taylor Swift not a financial expert but dozens of articles in the media allowed this to go on also Josh says shout out to Propagol again thanks so much for donating in the super chat we're gonna give you a better seat in the auditorium or something I don't know we're gonna improve your vision now it's an HD Dan Eve what about this Taylor Swift and of course we want to hear a bunch of puns because that's all the media likes to do is write these articles about they they ponder on the way up and they ponder on the way down oh yeah so um um well it's funny how it's played out right because she would have been silent about being rejected but as soon as it seemed like a good move to have actually rejected F-T-F-D-X because you know she was some sort of you know due diligence genius um you know that's she's good at everything she's good at singing music she's beautiful and she's a financial genius maybe maybe she's just uh maybe she's she kind of got on a high horse about it and tried to pretend because she thought Sam was going down and the information wouldn't come out but obviously the uh everything's coming out of wood work with all this paperwork um uh and maybe and she maybe she wanted to start a pump and dump group in a telegram group so she's like yeah look at this this I call this you know back in the day and so as well as being a superstar she has her own telegram pump shield group um but um yeah it doesn't matter what happens about the bad publicity because I'm sure she'll just shake it off shake it off oh there it is the Taylor Swift lyric reference Josh Egala what do you think about Te Te not such a financial and the incredible irony that they allowed everyone to run with those articles they could have just said hey you know we did try to do a deal with them they could have just taken it early instead we're getting a whole nother fun round of FTX endorsement stories oh Josh is pretty good there's a whole lot of them in the back end uh this is the end of FTX it's gonna keep on it's the third that keeps on smelling uh it just keeps on going no matter how dry and crusty it is it just stinks more and more uh it's it's phenomenal actually how much this sand guy promised such vast amounts of life changing wealth even to the wealthy you know even to Taylor Swift is a large there's a life changing amounts of money and um and of course you know if why why would you say to anybody that oh no they they they tripped us um if you could look like a financial genius for a day I don't know but Taylor yeah I don't know I don't actually know much a better I don't know a song songs uh I'm a bit of a pop culture naive guy uh but uh yeah it doesn't surprise me that there's these sorts of deals flying around from Sam like a hundred million dollars actually reminds me there was another woman who got who actually had a real deal on the table what was her name is the British rapper and uh she she got asked for a hundred thousand Bitcoin to play or ten thousand Bitcoin or something to play in uh in in in in second life all those years ago like in 2012 or something 2013 yeah and she rejected it and laughed at it and uh and uh or years later she could have been a billionaire from that well and it's so funny because people have the dot com example right there they're like if I had listened to someone and invested in eBay or Amazon early on I would have killed it right and then they're like no distrust every computer person that comes along and I think in the same way uh Josh our good friend Tatiana and she's talked about it several times so I don't think we're out of school here but early on the bit pay guys went to her and said hey take some crypto do a show and I don't want to imagine the horrifying amount of Bitcoin they probably offered that was probably 30 or a hundred or who knows and she could have stacked it and she could have done great but at the time nobody wanted Bitcoin nobody knew about it it's almost impossible to think of a situation where she says I'll take the Bitcoin instead of taking dollars that she needs in the short term to pay rent to pay reality you know real things uh it's certainly not her fault not anyone's fault everyone had a chance like this but yeah that that big singer she had a huge chance Lily Allen now my wife just shouted across the room uh yeah Lily Allen and she you never heard her heard her for like a Taylor Swift so it's it once again like you say Josh to think about world changing money to Taylor that she would be like I want that hundred million like we should get that hundred million take that off the table you know she's like I'll do I'll do three last shows I'll do ten last shows like she could really change her life uh with that money so it's a fun incredible story uh I think we're gonna move on I don't know if we have an exit question there Dan Eevery ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead New York blockchain days next Thursday right so it seems like half the crew most of the crew is going to be out there we haven't managed to convince Martin yet but um yeah I'm really looking forward to it and it's gonna be beautiful little trip yep we're going to me orca blockchain days July 13th through 16th in Palma, me orca, Spain I think there's still tickets left they've got information about the speakers sound like Peter Todd will be there uh Josh Egala will you be at me orca blockchain days are sure will be sure will be it'll be uh it'll be very exciting I can't wait I've been every single year um it's it's one of the better conferences because it's small it's tight knit um it's a bunch of really cool old school real serious people and fun people and um and uh afterwards there's an experienced ticket you can buy and we all go out on a boat and throw out treasors overboard horrible boating accidents so many situations destroyed last forever now it's it's a it's a fun it's a really fun uh really cool group of people and um definitely a recommended trip you know my orca is one of these things yeah hardly anyone lives on the island so you do have to make a trip for it but it's a trip that's well worth it and um and I hope you'll uh hope you make it and let's go and check out some of these speakers here uh Thomas from Electrum Wallet excellent speaker Jarrage from Parallel and Paulus we've got Christian Luke who's organizing the conference from Mayorka blockchain hey that Ben Ark guy from LN Bits will be there we know him friend of the show uh Pavel Rusnik or stick one of the founders of Trezzor and uh the mining pool Satoshi Labs Vlad Costa our friend who's been on the show uh Christian Rutsal another friend of the show DJ Rutsal Victoria Jones also on the show so we're seeing a lot of world crypto network people here uh we've got an economist Rahim Tazidhan and Peter Todd we've talked to him Don a Bitcoin philosopher more people that I don't know go can we know him from blockchain hotel and Dominic Frisbee one of the writers of an early book about Bitcoin uh also some banking professors here keychain x software development with sobbi wallets philosopher of Bitcoin so sounds like a great speaking lineup it's just uh coming up about a week away uh in mayorka Spain so hope to see you guys there um my story of the week is that we're starting the mad tour seven the trip to Spain because I'm gonna fly to Barcelona and then I'm gonna fly to mayorka and then I will be there at mayorka blockchain days we hope maybe we'll be able to do a live Bitcoin or something like that from mayorka try to get some interviews talk to some people and get it all done up there in mayorka so uh we're running out of time but first we want to quote Taylor Swift lyrics as she said and maybe this is about banks maybe this is about ftx and sam maybe she's bringing this into her songs now writing about spf and ftx she says I remember when we broke up the first time saying this is it i've had enough cuz like we hadn't seen each other in a month when you said you needed space what then you come around again and say baby i miss you i swear i'm gonna change trust me remember how that lasted for a day i say i hate you when we break up you call me i love you Taylor Swift just can't get away from those banks and that spf she just wanted 100 million dollars that's all she wanted so thanks to everybody for joining us thanks for propagol for sending the donations it's amazing in the super chat thanks to buddy for live chatting given us the thumbs up if you're watching later give us a comment give us your opinion do you think they'll be in etf are you excited about Taylor Swift's uh near running with bitcoin and ftx can you imagine what the commercial would have been like ipad bitcoin i mean she could have sang a song about it like there's a whole thing so we were that close boys were that close next time next time we'll sign Taylor Swift and actually pair so thanks to everybody for joining us until next time bye