The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Victoria Jones from Satoshi's page. Hi there. One arc from LNBITS. When I was DS, here in sunny El Salvador, the Bitcoin conference, it's nice to be back on the show. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one, FTX used corporate funds to purchase employee homes, new filing shows. The FTX disaster continues to explode across the pages of crypto Twitter and the financial news. We've even seen an FTX Ponzi lawsuit that could set a new mark for endorser liability with Tom Brady, David Ortiz, Naomi Osaka, Shohei Otani and Steph Curry all being named as parties in the lawsuit. Meanwhile, Sam Bankman freed his shopping at the grocery store in the Bahamas and laughing it off like nothing happened. Fortune magazine is running profiles of Caroline, hardly even accusing her of anything and the New York Times seems to have taken the day off. Victoria, what's going on now in the FTX disaster? Well, there seems to be no end to the dysfunction going on with this company, unfortunately. I mean, you know, buying personal properties on the company balance sheet. I mean, you are as a company, you are actually allowed to buy property for employees, but it still has to be done in a specific way. And it turns out that the auditor who's looking at the books is just a gast at the lack of the lack of accountability, the quality of the accounts. You know, it's just the story just gets from goes from bad to ridiculous, really. It's just shocking that it was even even allowed to happen and that they got so big with no one saying anything. And then of course with the celebrity endorsements, you know, someone's father class action lawsuit to go after the celebrities. Well, you know, it's probably about time someone called some of the other players to account in this and this whole mess. And certainly, you know, if the lawsuit successful, it's certainly going to give the celebrities some pause for thought in the future. So again, very, very, very interesting to see how that all plays out. It is true when they advertised Gatorade and they said you could be like Mike. Nobody actually ended up being like Michael Jordan. So I don't know about the celebrity lawsuit part, but the accounting going on in chat rooms, major decisions being made by emoji. Should we send them $200,000? Smiley face. Should I send them $300,000? Smiley face with stars in his eyes. What's going on at this company? We also have Caroline who's now linked by her father, Ellison to Gary Gensler, the head of the SEC, the Sir Caredees and Exchange Commission, the people who are supposed to be investigating this. And meanwhile, we have all of these celebrities lending their names to a Bahamian exchange. Would anyone have invested their money if they said during the commercial? This exchange is in the Bahamas. You know why? Wink, wink. It's insane. It's hard to believe. And yet he was on the cover of every magazine and as my friend Morgan said, even in the toilets in San Francisco, the public toilets in San Francisco had San Benchman's Fried's face on it. They even had them in the fortune cookies in two locations Sacramento and Vegas fortune cookies with FTX advertisements. Ben, Ark, what do you think about the FTX collapse? Many people are also noting that Bitcoin only went down 10%. Yeah, yeah, what a tool. It's another, I mean, it's the cult of the entrepreneur. They have this so-called genius kid and maybe he's been right about something like Bitcoin and then everyone pins their hopes on him that he's going to be a genius. Actually, he's just a kid and just makes bad decisions and hasn't lived life yet. So it spends all the money. He thinks that because he becomes so promoted, they got some things. He's sick of pants around them because he got so many people telling them that they're amazing. They think that they're going to be able to at some point return those funds either by using those funds to, you know, lobby governments, they're more friendly to Bitcoin, spend all in turn, benefit their business and then they might go to install those funds. On the issue of the houses, they call houses. I mean, at least these are assets we can link with exit and then the debt's going to return to the debt's. You got to remember that at least people when they scam people, it's people's savings. It's really quite very sad. There'll be a whole load of people, hundreds of thousands of people who are going to be bossing their entire life savings or have got something kids to college and it's all off the back of some, you know, just ego, kid who's run a ride and his friends and they're making incredibly, incredibly bad decisions. There was a Twitter thread on, there was a Twitter DM thread. What's the main guy again? I forgot his name because what's the same thing? Sam Beckman with Freed. Sam Beckman with Freed. I mean, up until two weeks ago, I had no idea what FGX was. I really didn't and suddenly I have to learn all about this thing and then all about this tool and why the buy stuff out in the Bitcoin price. Sam Beckman with Freed. Yeah, he's just, this is the problem when you don't have accountability. Oh yeah, I was going to say there was a DM message thread from Twitter and it was a journalist who'd reached out to him on, I think November the 13th and it was an interesting, we can Google it, you can find it and it was supposed to be off the record but the journalist just thought he showed such a little empathy and regret that he felt obliged to publish it, which I think is fair for the victims. But yeah, in it, he was in the past a few months ago, he was saying that some regulation in the crypto industry will be good. When reality in this thread, he was just saying that, yes, we've screwed the regulators, we don't need to do them. And actually in this case, this is an example of where a little bit of regulation might stop something like this, where they might have their box audited, and might realize that it's a computer that's shambles. And I think as well, there's been some discourse among governments like the US that the Bitcoin crypto industry is here to stay. So they can't just get rid of it, which means that now they will have to seriously look at regulating it efficiently and properly. So things like this, which happen, what happen again when people want to lose their funds. He's not living some side to the point of doing this, it's just a business, a real bull business. You can still use Bitcoin in the way it's supposed to be used, but I'm not saying it's fair, but for this sort of people want to use Bitcoin and trade with it and stuff. And those trading platforms, they should be regulating by government, and people should be insulated from these problems, chappin' it on regulated markets. Obviously, there was nothing in the white paper about not having a board of directors and using the best of our funds like your piggy bank to just pay off your girlfriend's bad investments. But that's what happened, and it happened in a crypto or a Bitcoin business, so we all must pay the price. But now you must predict the future against the Bitcoin predictor ball, the greatest predictor in all of Bitcoin history, better than all the triangles. Victoria, the price is already down 10%. Everyone knows about Sam Bankman, Fried, and FTX, but there could be more contagion. Will the price be up or down next week? I think it's pretty obvious there's going to be a lot more to unwind here. I think it'll be going down. Ben Arck, higher or lower? I kind of feel like there might be some plateau injury bounding, and I would like to point out that the last time I was on the show, I said there was going to be a horrible crash and I was going to be living in streets. Because we've been parallel for so long, and there just didn't see any uplifting when someone had just imagined that there would be some black swan, sort of thing which just had some bad news cycle which could easily break the price down. And it did. So as most of all, I am for all the people who lost funds. I also would like to say I told you so, the price went down. But yeah, I think it's going to plateau, maybe maybe pop up a little bit. Ben Arck says, I told you so. And now here it is, the Bitcoin predictor ball. Will the price be higher this time next week? Outlook not so good. Outlook not so good. So we're not going up anymore. The ball has spoken. Moving on to issue two. Issue two. As Twitter staff empties out users fear for the platform. According to Reuters news service yesterday, Twitter fired the main engineers in charge of keeping the platform running. Yes, the engineers who keep the site online were let go, then Elon Musk announced that he was locking the doors of the building and that no one could come inside. Since then, everyone's pretty much been waiting for the Twitter infrastructure to completely collapse. As it's likely to do this weekend with the start of the World Cup. Hooray for soccer, hooray for Twitter, sad for Elon Musk losing so much money for no reason. Ben Arck, what do you think about the Twitter disaster as it continues to spiral down? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's quite usual when somebody buys a business, that they go in and they have like a leisureful, Elon Musk isn't scared of being brutal when it comes to his employees. So he's probably just getting rid of, I mean, no matter how much I dislike Elon Musk, I have to appreciate that he's good at hiring people because he's built a lot of very successful companies. Although people like again, the culture, the entrepreneur, the people want to give credit to Elon Musk, it's actually amazing. Again, today is desired. In fact, so a good example is when Tesla started accepting Bitcoin and they were using BTC Pacer, but they think the innovation is about an afternoon, they found like a critical plug in BTC Pacer and put a commitment. Like, he's got some very good engineers and I imagine he's just going to be using them and then getting rid of the old guard who may be on board with some of the changes he wants to make. So reality is the civil body of company. I don't think it's in cut so on itself, because anything I actually feel pretty good will get that as much as I've ever had to. They're saying it's like a Tom Sawyer event with people on Twitter, celebrating Twitter's funeral on Twitter. Are they too early Victoria? Yeah, well, Elon has always been a bit of an attention junkie, hasn't he? So well, it doesn't surprise me. I mean, when I watched your livestream yesterday, it's quite clear that he was kind of making light of the situation and posting pictures of Twitter's grave and him is grave. So, you know, as much as everyone else was kind of been moaning, it's downfall, he was kind of milking it as well, which kind of just goes to show how resilient he is. I mean, I agree with Ben, I think he he's a smart business person and as much as people like to throw trash at him, he does have a track record unlike our newfound friend, SBF. So, you know, I don't think disaster is as likely. I think it's also true that, you know, he had a clear vision for the company. He seemed to have a clear vision for the company when he took it over. And it's he also has a very different philosophy behind it. So there was always going to be blood in the streets, I think, in terms of in terms of people being unhappy and wanting to protest. I mean, I've been in companies before myself where I've seen exactly that kind of thing play out. But of course, you know, Twitter is like the local town center for the world, isn't it? So any little bit of gossip, it's easy to escalate out of proportion and and Elon's made light of it by joining in the fun as well. I don't think it's nearly as bad as Twitter's making out. I think it's just par for the course with these sorts of changes. Previously, Twitter had the kind of up time that it was practically an internet utility. People would go to Twitter to complain about other websites being down, or they would search first, they would say, Hey, is Microsoft down is Google down. I'm going to go check on Twitter. So I do think it's unfortunate for Elon to be squadering such an advantage in the consumer mind about up time when people look to share their important news during the Iranian Revolution during the Egypt problem, so on and so forth, they went to Twitter and Twitter was there. Certainly they had early problems with stability. They were built in kind of a slap dash startup style. They fixed that they reformed it, but there's still issues as many threads have discussed about what they're doing. They're just about what if a server has a hard drive that fills up and then that server stops replicating things like this that you don't expect to happen can happen even with good software like Twitter. So I do hope that he fixes it. I do think he's going to lose a lot of the credibility of Twitter, which could affect the price of Twitter when he later has to sell for pennies on the dollar exit question will Elon Musk fix Twitter? Yes or no, then arc. I mean, to fix it would mean get rid of Twitter and replace it with open source thing called based on us. So I don't he's going to do that. So that's a fix is going to improve it. We use it for a bit until the source wins as always does. Victoria Jones, do you agree will Elon struggle and not create a free and open source Twitter? Well, I think as Ben says, you know, free and open source probably would use a different protocol. He's certainly going to change it. I don't think it will die. You know, it's a valuable it's a valuable service. You know, people enjoy using it. I'd be very surprised if you didn't find a way to make it work. No one has ever made money running Twitter neither will Elon Musk he'll sell it to Google for half or less than what he paid for it and it will be much diminished. But maybe it'll come back who knows check out worldcryptonetwork.com. We've got 3000 in 19 videos. You could watch them for three months 13 days and 23 hours straight. That's a long time. Moving on to issue three gray scales Bitcoin trust hits record low 43% discount after the FTX crisis. Gray scales in trouble and so is Genesis Genesis has paused client with draws for their lending arm citing the FTX impact. They've stopped withdrawals for the Genesis earn program and this is led to concern about the entire digital currency group portfolio as you can see up here Genesis trading down here. You can see purse some other ones. It's pretty amazing Z cash that didn't work out DCG is all over Bitcoin and now they might be in trouble from FTX contagion Victoria. What do you think about DCG Genesis and the gray scale discount? Well, the gray scale discount basically the market's telling us that the price is going lower. I know the way in which the that gray scale is organized is not exactly the Bitcoin price, but it's certainly a reflection of sentiment, I think. I know they've got a lot of competition from other people who brought out ETFs last year. But even so to be carrying a discount for that long. I mean, I'm not I'm not a fair with exactly the technical ways in which these funds work. But on the face of it, I would have thought that's not not a good sign. In terms of what was the other one? Genesis suspending club now that is quite worrying because they're like the biggest are they the biggest company providing yield to the entire crypto industry and the number of people there connected to I mean it's almost the same chart as with different companies. And the SBA has I mean, you know, this is this is literally like a nuclear bombs gone off in the crypto industry really. And it couldn't be at a worse time because I think you know the Fed is clearly trying to get a handle on inflation and restore their reputation for managing money in the markets and you know there's so many issues kind of converging on each other that is not good for Bitcoin in the short term. So I think it's really good to do the technology is and how how well it will work going into the future, but you know these are big, big issues, you know this is Matt got when mounts got when Matt got was collapsed. It was one single exchange, you know the interconnectedness amongst amongst the businesses in this industry is really, really quite scary. And there's definitely a watershed moment, which ultimately is healthy, but it's like sending a patient to get major surgery is not just you know it's not just putting a plaster on the arm and telling the wrong is going to get better. This is like you know you almost have to do life support to get it back on its knees when this is over I think it's going to be pretty it's already pretty dreadful, but I think it's going to be a while before we see the full ramifications. So that old SNL episode they're going to get out the barber do some bloodletting and introduce the leeches. Then are do you think there'll be a domino effect will the FTX collapse knock down all these other businesses. I mean again it's going to be heavily impact and big stories absolutely rights a watershed moment and ultimately it needs to happen because this is clearly a point of failure. These companies and the quality that much Bitcoin on their on their balance sheet. So yeah it's it's it's it's a problem is used to be addressed and then you know. But let's hope there's more decentralized ways of performing some of these functions and then also let's hope that in traditional long decentralized corporate structures that they are regulated. And they will have to be now because as I said before it's governments are starting to are now aware that the Trojans behind within the financial system. And that they're aware that this industry is not going anywhere and if it can have such a significant effect on traditional on runs such as Genesis and Grace scale because these will be much more traditional investors. Then yes it's really going to highlight that it's really time that there's more straightforward regulation and oversight. And that will ultimately be good for private businesses because private businesses will know how they can operate in those different jurisdictions and they'll be less ambiguity and yeah so ultimately good and healthy. It is an empty Cox type moment. I would I think there's a market to perhaps I don't consider the amount of liquidity within Bitcoin. I think because how I can see how low we are as well. So if this had happened in a ball cycle there will be a lot more funds on some of these sites. But it hasn't so hopefully that that'll mean that maybe the markets are overreacted and maybe maybe it won't be as bad as you think it's going to be. It's going to happen healthy and it's just to show me came up. Well actually maybe it's a good thing that it came when it did because if it happened to the top of the ball cycle it could be really really quite bad and more people would have lost their money. So I think it's a question Satoshi Nakamoto after seeing the 2018 financial crisis invented Bitcoin gave fire to man said hold your own keys hold your own wealth. Man of course made banks. Is man now rightly punished is this similar to religion does everything repeat. Are they just worshipping the golden calf because they couldn't wait for Noah to come down the hill with the 10 or 15 commandments. Can't we ever listen are we eternally doomed to have great inventions like Bitcoin great inventions like the internet turned into centralized websites like Twitter and Facebook. Victoria. You have some great analogies Thomas. But no I think it's it's the nature of humanity really it's about consequences and unless people face the consequences sometimes are their bad actions they wouldn't learn their lesson some people face the consequences and still don't learn the lesson so. I just think it's part of life's rich pattern and it's not the first time this kind of thing has happened and it won't be the last. Then arc on the eighth day Satoshi said there should be a sandbankman freed named spf and he should be in charge of the largest exchange in the world FTX and they should advertise on the uniforms of the umpires of Major League baseball and you should totally collapse and nothing should happen to him. Why does this keep happening to us then. Yeah it's that's game of design problem we have this beautiful new tool which can prevent these things from happening but then we have this legacy traditional finance mindset where we build basically the same tools with this beautiful tool. So yeah ultimately will fix problems pick what will fix problems like this but. Not as long as we just continue to build same things we used to build of course it's going to collapse in of themselves. I only really trust the money when it's held by a bank and you think about that meme I don't have it up right now where it has the guy with a little stand and it's like Bitcoin 60,000 there's a giant line Bitcoin what are we at 17,000. Nobody there at all it just keeps happening over and over again let's move on to the next issue issue five L Salvador plans to buy more Bitcoin every day despite losing millions already you know i've been critical of this guy in the past but i'm kind of starting to like him. Now bucali has pledged to buy one Bitcoin a day i don't know when he's going to stop but he says he's going to keep doing it and even this magazine right here this is a says Microsoft it's gizmodo they claim and again this is from the magazine it says that it's a shockingly dumb decision based upon the massive lost he's already taken by buying Bitcoin at an all time high. Where as I think the Bitcoin reminds that sees this more is dollar cost averaging for L Salvador a chance to get some cheap coins Ben arc ear in L Salvador what do you think about the decision to buy more Bitcoin. I think it's win win this is a thing so if you look at the amount of money they've lost. In holding Bitcoin as a national asset it's the GDP was up 10% last year so from like two or three percent of the year before so the very fact that they embrace Bitcoin in the industry has brought a lot of industry into a very small country which doesn't have huge GDP it's actually made a noticeable change in different so when I came last year it was different it wasn't like it is now it feels safer people seem happier. This is beautiful new airport when you fly in the airport I came to last time was what you expect from like a fairly small central South American country but now they put this wonderful report with this great roof design which simulates the roof as a way but the Kelly's he's pushed two things he's pushed the surf city and pulling in surface and that tourism money and then he's also pushed the Bitcoin industry and then the next thing is the loss of businesses have set up here so it doesn't really matter that they make losses on their Bitcoin because they they've made such huge gains on the industrial impact which is quite interesting and we are probably towards the bottom of the bear market so he could just redirect the money they've made on the increasing GDP it's just we direct down to buying some Bitcoin which maybe they're doing and they're going to break even but then of course the price will eventually get up with always doesn't Bitcoin. And there'll be in a very good position indeed I have noticed that it's somewhat the elephant in the room when it comes to payments and this has been something which is kind of it's already been said like I thought about it deeply and I was like well it's actually a good thing that when they adopted Bitcoin since then we've had this bear market and they they've exist they've existed they've had their first bear market and also for the the Bitcoin industry for using your lightning that would cause me to be strange which was useful then you can't have money. It makes terrible money for people on subsistence wage so there's lots of people focusing on how do you solve that problem you have these rap dash sets this is like the Bitcoin Beach wallet where you can have like a dollar you can have things priced in dollars but it starts behind it and then there's like stopping the background to make sure that that's that peg stays. I think there's going to be some really interesting work next year when I come here I want to see an Al Salvadorian dollar which is stable and it's there's some federated thing which is like half geographical political regions of the country and they may be half industrial sectors and then maybe the maybe the Al Salvador dollar is like peg to you know USD GP your and maybe some first domestic products such as coffee or producers or whatever. It's quite an exciting place to be even though they've you know clearly lost a lot of money by having Bitcoin as an asset that GP has gone up and just tried all those all that industry has been very very good for the country notice because of the country. Ben how's the attendance at the conference and would you say it's mainly locals or mainly Bitcoiners from out of town. Now that's a very good point Thomas so last year when I came it was just all green goes and like I brought these electronics here and I wanted to like make points of sale and then get them back into the local community so people could you know come like a big devices and I basically just brought these electronics on a plane from Europe people made them in my workshops and they took them all back to Europe. So it was there wasn't many locals involved this year there was there's a fair amount of locals are lots of Latin American. Lots of Brazilians and people from what's more than other regions nearby Mexico so that was really exciting for this there's and I think this has been a side effect of Latin America having a country which is embrace Bitcoin it means that the little counts and the Bitcoiners where they want to do something with Bitcoin. They've been inspired and empowered and they've realized that they can't affect change so you have some two great projects in Guatemala that set up some of the things that the else on take Bitcoin economies and then also in Bitcoin Brazil prior Bitcoin Brazil is absolutely beautiful what they've done that they they've brought in some Bitcoin donations and then they've used those donations to help the infrastructure of the town they've like built the school of computers week and you've got a rural. A rural neighborhood where everyone's on bank and now they all have payment cards and they're able to make digital payments in the shops and it's really quite inspiring go to it and incredible talk by Bitcoin Brazil so please do you ever go to check that out but yeah it's inspired a lot of good work around our Salvador maybe not maybe not I mean there's good work in our Salvador but there's also in the other countries of Central South America and there has the word definitely more attendees who you know work ring goes. And what about Bitcoin Beach are they still buying burgers with Lightning Network? I mean the the prices just gone down so no one's to use it as money and it's fair because I was a big guy who went to a beautiful bar looking over the little fair yesterday and he was just saying that if he has any money left over then he uses it for investment in his part and you know add some extra tables chat so just you know you can't do it. So this is kind of the interesting thing so that he's not using Bitcoin but the Bitcoin law and then also the push for surf see is attracted a lot of tourism so he's re-investing that money into building out his own operation but when it comes to actual payments with Bitcoin it's like it's kind of gimmicky it's just as we have it in Europe or US you know like they're accepting payments in the bar when all the Bitcoin is wherever you can imagine they probably wouldn't afterwards but there's some it's it from I was hanging out with a number of people. I was hanging out with another Bitcoin because I didn't go there last year he went to the else on to take and he said that there was a huge change there being a huge change. I love this lovely cafes restaurants hotels bars it was a nice place to go and the surf was great and that was a really good vibe so long way to continue and then I hope I said to the guy in the you might be brand this bar hotel thing I said I told him about the idea of the Al Salvador Dali and said yeah if that existed then of course I don't want to use the USD. I said well let's hope let's see when I come back here I can pay with a stable meeting exchanging your wallet. If you want you can swap to the investment asset that this is the store of value Bitcoin over time or if you want you can accept the stable coin and it still has some local connection. He was like yeah cool bring it on that's what we want so we have to listen to the people who were actually trying to build these tools for so hopefully that will happen next year. Victoria what do you think about the El Salvador decision to double down and buy more Bitcoin? Yeah well I think it's really interesting hearing Ben's story from on the ground because of course that's the one aspect that was not mentioned in that article at all I mean the mainstream media clearly, clearly wants to create an impression that this guy is just a lunatic because the thing is you know if you just if you just if you want to do it, you just if you read if you read the article as it's written the fact that he's already lost millions of dollars on this investment and is is going to buy more of it. I mean those on the face of it who don't understand how Bitcoin works and how the price cycles work. I mean it's just like it makes him look like a lunatic at the very least reckless. So but of course you know there's more to the story than that it's not just about the fact that it's you know the price is what it is it's about the fact that you know this is a technology that has captured the imagination of thousands of people and it's brought investment to a country that was really struggling up until this initiative. In terms of him buying now I mean I'm not sure that was such a good idea I mean I have seen some videos where people were maintaining the bottom was in before we had this crash in the price. I think all things considered we could see a low that's completely anticipated because of all the macro economic factors going on. So from that perspective I don't think it's a very good strategy but you know as Ben has pointed out there's way more to this particular story than that. We're running out of time we're moving on to issue six issue six national security secrets raised in case against crypto couple charged in billion dollar heist. The case is the bit finnex hack it's the couple that was caught because they purchased Walmart gift cards that were then allegedly linked to three point six billion dollars in Bitcoin a court filing made by US prosecutors on Wednesday in the case and his eccentric rapper wife says that the investigation now involves classified national security information and documents they did hold the investigation citizenship and Russian citizenship and traveled extensively in Ukraine perhaps a Russian connection to this massive hack that was obviously not done by the rapper and the Walmart gift card seeking PlayStation fan five PlayStation five fans who were arrested for it. Let's go to Josh golly who's with us now Josh what do you think about the bit finnex hack and suddenly it involves national security. Yeah it's wild that it's actually you know this is one of the things if there's a hack it doesn't matter how long you wait it's on the chain it's going to get tracked and traced so that's that's a problem for for these hackers you know which is it's great to see actual criminals being taken down instead of just this stuff but again I'm not a big fan of following the money I think money should be private I think I'm a big fan of it. I'm a big fan of following actual criminal activity and trying to bust people other ways but but yeah I mean you know let's see if any of the what what I think we said it last week if any of that money ends up in the hands of people that actually lost their money will be great but I get a feeling it won't and if it doesn't then it should be put into like education into what scams and hacks look like or what to look out for probably won't happen either and if that's not the case. Smithsonian museums probably won't even happen. It is nice in this case you can tell the criminals from the people on the front of fortune magazine and you can also say to yourself these people don't seem like the real hackers so there's definitely more to this story Victoria what do you think about the bit for next hackers as Josh said we hope people get money back but remember bit for next did that clever accounting thing with the coins as well so it might just go back to bit for next. Yeah that's a good point actually I haven't thought of that the fact that bit for next bit for next managed to keep itself going as a as a going concern so presumably if they did get the funds back that would be even better news for the people who got their token Simon Dixon can take even more credit for having organized that so yeah but yeah I mean I've never seen such a dodgy couple in my life I mean it's hard to believe that you know that I'm not going to do that. I think that they would be the smart ones to hack into but who knows you know people you know appearances can be deceptive but yeah when I was looking when I was looking through the article and I was looking at how the government had captured some of the money but they still had a lot of money and other accounts that the government hadn't accessed and the note I made was no money no problems you know it's just like the more money you have the more problems it can actually give you in certain circumstances. You know keeping track of all of that and hiding it and the convoluted paths they've got to go for me in good grief you know me give me a peaceful life enough to live on I don't need billions figuring out ways to figure out ways to hide it so you know all credits of them they've certainly taken on the challenge be interesting to see how it ends up. And all these people all these people wanted where some PlayStation 5's from Walmart I'm perfectly satisfied with the PlayStation 4 it seems good Ben arc what do you think about the alleged bit for next hackers suddenly now a national security concern. I mean I don't think they are they probably were the ones who did the hack like if you look into that I look at some of the videos in previous previously before going to the essentially whatever like and and they were trying to run some sort of you know on this scam you can find this on the I mean perhaps we don't see two videos on that now still but I'm sure that's a findable if you search for it but you know they they they they were trying to make a quick fuck a script kiddies then I'll use a computer you can download software which does a whole bunch of very black hacking things and they did that they found the you know a vulnerability that I was exploiting quite often. You would you would overestimate the technical competence of somebody who can pull off a big hack sometimes it's just look at the drawer as well so people trying to find the vulnerability they would want to do it. They're creepy and weird but they're in love and I don't know they can't help feeling they're kind of endearing in a way but it's such for everybody but I don't think there's a great conspiracy it's fairly usual people talk like not usual but it's not unusual people talk to you all citizenship and it's not you know cat causation is not possible but they got so I don't think there's a big conspiracy I think it's just a couple creepy couple in love who kept trying to hack things and eventually they won't do it. They won't make a big score and then they make a very stupid decisions in the funds. Correlation does not equal causation and I think this was also the case where they were protected by a bit go and every withdrawal would be checked by the bit go multiple what's it called multiple signature situation they had multi sig technology were very safe but then it turned out that it was too difficult to check. Every signature so they said it to kind of auto check so you could just withdraw whatever you want and they figured this out and I think it was Peter Todd at the time who said the famous quote bit go fuck yourself yes bit go fuck yourself so we'll see how it goes I don't know about the national security thing I still don't know if they're the real hackers and the national security thing for me leads right into that because obviously the real hackers might be foreign agents but we're running out of time. Josh a call it just showed up Josh what do you think about week two FTX we found out that they're making accounting decisions by chat rooms that were regularly erased they're investing hundreds of thousand dollars by emoji so smiley face equals yes frowny face equals no money for you. And the guys just shopping at supermarkets and the Bahamas and the newspapers are profiling him like you did nothing wrong what do you think about FTX week two. Yeah it's there's so much laundry coming out now and so many so many strange articles you know people going into their sex lives and that they're all poly and all this up but really all of that doesn't matter all of that doesn't matter what matters is that these are all. And actually one thing I do want to say is that Sequoia is largely at fault here I'm going to just call them out on this Sequoia have a massive massive role to play when they invest they know that people don't do due diligence once they invest when they invest people assume that Sequoia has put a hell of a lot of due diligence in. And then instead then they get the next person just invest in the next and the next them then fortune magazine goes oh look all these people invested plus Sequoia I'm going to put this face on the magazine and then oh look it's face on the magazine I'm going to it's this it's this snowball that happens. And it happened from the root which was Sequoia not doing their proper job in the industry and and really I mean they have good enough accountants to go in there look through the data room and truly understand what's going on there and ask the right questions when someone says they're worth 22 billion and you go well where does that come from and they say oh well I've got this FTT token you say okay well it's not very legal. So actually not worth that are you but it doesn't take too many brain cells to rub together to actually ask these tough tough questions instead you have Sequoia which is a very very reputable investment firm basically dog the entire industry and now go oh we need more regulation like what he did wasn't illegal enough what are they going to make it more illegal. Well you did no it was already illegal what he did just piling or regulation for regulation sake makes no real difference here and this is the stuff that started to come out I don't care about his sex life I care about the fact that so many people lost their lost their money. I know people personally that have now bankrupt because of this you know and so it's it's it's a real shame it needs to it needs to change we need to head more towards decentralization we need to stop trusting these custodial systems this is the whole point we got into Bitcoin we to get away from rehopification to get away from printing money out of thin air and we've just found ourselves back to the market. They're under the allure of a quick buck or under the allure of safety and you know we we learned this in our docs we did but we've had so many new people coming into the industry that they need to touch that that painful flame as well and and now they've touched it I'm really hoping that that people start to see the power of the decentralized world of defy like it really is a powerful powerful thing it's not a panacea there will be smart contracts that have back doors there will be smart contracts that have upgrade ability functions which can also be exploited. But this is where smart contract auditors will come in and warn people of that and people need to know that's what that means so so there's there's there's a whole lot of stuff that needs to happen there's a whole lot of industry that needs to be looking at itself all of us need to be you know working hard to educate new people into why custodianship is important for yourself self custodity custody and holding your private keys is super important. It is pretty amazing that Sequoia and so many others invested in a structure like this no board of directors a young kid no experience it's almost like they're thrill seeking hedge funds like they're out on a date and they're having a good time and they're going to go all the way and it's like investment funds trying heroin it's like they're just like well this will this will be this will be really wild compared to the way we normally do it will just risk everyone's money like this it's crazy. Ben are you have a prediction or a story of the week think you're running out of time here and thanks so much to joining us from a El Salvador all the way down there yeah. No so sorry for the week would be the conference is great we also launched a shot and it's shot to help plants and was a ballot and so it's shot at a lot of this calm I don't can't share my screen because I'm on my phone but it's got some cool guest notes on that we've made some gives most specifically for it so we have like a block. A lot of types things which checks the Bitcoin price the month or. And then you can also link it up so it might actually gives you the that by the use in some other bits while it could be kind of useful for someone if they want to keep an hour wallet on their desk and we also have like an arcade machine thing we built which is typical. I don't know if you could share the screen that's almost for I don't know about time so it's okay but if everyone just if you want to check out shop that of this calm and. Yes the conference was right they did a great job I want to enjoy it and it was it was back at the last year and I'm sure next year again. Awesome very good thanks so much been for joining us all the way from El Salvador Josh we also talked about the Twitter troubles according to Reuters Elon has fired the engineers responsible for keeping running the platform he's locked the doors to the building and many engineer type people fear that the platform itself could splinter and collapse over the weekend especially under the load of the world cup event which is starting Josh what do you think about Twitter and what Elon's been up to many people on this panel think he might pull it through it does look dire right now. I think you'll do it can't be right should be right maybe we'll get actual conversations happening again maybe people go wow there's a real world. So far most of the conversations are just envisioning Twitter's funeral while we're still on Twitter so it's been a bit of a creative writing exercise I think. And Victoria do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead. Well I mentioned the latest newsletter I was producing on my web page last week that's now out basically I'm commenting on what I think of the macro economic environment and how I think that the Bitcoin bear market still has further to go not great news but I think it's better to be forward is for armed so anyone's interested in that they can check that out on stoshies page.com. Oh I'll be checking that out for sure. Very good and Josh Egold you have a prediction or a story of the week. No I mean just well we're heading in with 10 days away from launching finally the S euro which is really exciting and if you're into yield farming go check it out because it's really great why the the original the first S euro will be sold under a euro at 80 cents and then as more and more volume fills up that stability point. So I think that's a good example that will that discount will become less and less until it reaches a one to one and at that point it'll become a stable coin and while you're waiting you can actually put that into liquidity pool and sell us that liquidity for a bond and and depending on how long that bonding maturity day is the more yield. So fun yield farming at its best not financial advice to your own thing. Totally you know check it out do your own due diligence check out the contracts check out the audits on the contracts and and yeah if you're not into that sort of thing but you want to help out build the ultimate stable coin protocol decentralized stable coin protocol. So we're going to look at the the discord and the telegram because you know we're all talking philosophy there we're talking concepts technology all sorts of stuff memes. Very cool and check it out at the standard dot IO and everyone be sure to check out world crypto network this week we did a couple of live Twitter spaces if you'd like to join the space just keep a watch of at mad bitcoins on Twitter. We have recorded versions of the spaces here on the world crypto network and coming out on the podcast soon over the weekend so mainly we talked about FTX some of the ethical dilemmas that sbf has faced and just a general shock of everyone to see the entire industry suddenly inflame. But we're running out of time thanks to the people in the chat for keeping us honest on the time proper goal and others who are here early counting it down and until next time.