The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Ben Arck from LNBITS. Good evening, all. Martin Wishmeyer from General Bites. Good evening, Bitcoiners. Josh Egala from thestander.io. We told you crypto was going down last week. Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. Rite. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one, Bitcoin sees its steepest decline in a month as hope's fade for a less hawkish fed. The price of Bitcoin is down and everybody but me, you was right about it. Oh, well, you win some and you lose some. Also, shout out to CoinDesk who had this a couple of days ago saying that Bitcoin loses bullish trend line as fed sees restrictive rates needed for some time. That was before the 10% haircut. So shout out to Coinbase and Omkar Godball. Ben Arck, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? One more dip and then the moon or is this the forever dip that keeps dipping and dipping and dipping and dipping? Dips, lots of dips and I think we're just going to continue to go down flatline for a bit. Good six months maybe. It's going to be depressing and then we'll make our way back up. That trend line, when you actually look at it, you can easily just tilt it a little bit and it hits the low at the beginning of the year. So I think they were just too many people counting on this trend line which is just a fabrication and some market thing for technical traders and then when the price went through the trend line which it ever to be is going to do, it knows a sell off. So that's what we've gone down. I didn't actually notice because I was busy or we can't even notice until I read these articles for the show and then I realized we've gone down. But I mean that's the point isn't it? The actual value of Bitcoin I think continues to go up because people are working on cool things and people who are working on things generally aren't looking at the price. You know the business just make grinding and building things and that's adding value into Bitcoin. Eventually we'll go up and we just have to whether the store. The values up but the price is down. Shout out to our 14 live viewers. Be sure to give us a thumbs up. We got three likes and 14 viewers. So check that out. Martin Wishmer, what do you think about the price of Bitcoin? Thomas, I'm not never really really interested about the price but yeah, I think as long as the Fed is giving some interest rates and the EU struggles to contain inflation, we'll see everybody closely following what is the Fed doing but once people find out that it really really really doesn't matter what the Fed decides. Bitcoin will go up again. I think the amount of money that has been printed over the past few years will cause inflation and just a few points of interest increase from Fed or European Central Bank really won't make any difference. So all the fundamentals I think for Bitcoin are still intact. I wouldn't worry about it too much and as Ben said, if you do worry, instead of worrying, start building something and it will take your focus away from the price and towards building cool things, things which will add value to the ecosystem. So yeah, keep building guys. Josh Agala, is that true? Are we linked to the stock market and the Fed? You're muted, Josh. Oh, there I'm back. I'm sorry. Zoom hit itself. Yeah, anyway, we are doomed slowly as we've championed as an industry that Wall Street get on board, that all these the ETFs get in there that we have all these Wall Street tools because that'll bring the money. But actually what happens is then it gets more and more coupled with the larger economic plays of the world rather than being its own thing. It's fine. It will just like gold when there's a massive panic in the entire globe for some reason. Bitcoin will sell off just like gold does. But long term gold and Bitcoin are rare scarce assets that can't be printed out of nowhere. Bitcoin is obviously more scarce. It's just going to do what it does with the rest of the economy. So be careful out there. What you wish for. Thanks to everybody for pushing that like. But we almost have 10 likes, almost 10. Dan Eve, you've been bearish for weeks now. You're going to take a victory lap. The price finally went down. Oh yeah. Well, I'm happy about my like one in 10 prediction. Even though it does obviously make people sad. And I have nothing to gain from it only to lose. But I kind of, you know, it did kind of feel like, you know, well, it still feels like we're still halfway, not even halfway through to the next kind of harbing. So if you keep to that schedule, you may have the rainbow charts and the stock to flows and the ding dong's and all these different triangles and stuff. But ultimately, yeah, the harving is kind of the pattern that does definitely repeat. There's the price appreciating after that. So it's going to be up and down. It's going to be choppy high seas. I've actually got my McDonald's belt ready. Back to from when I worked there when I was like 16 years old, 16 years old man and boy, I've got my little piggy bank with all my little savings and I might bite you know bite you bite you do some bite Bitcoin buying, you know, edging edging in. But ultimately, you know, go back to the like it was it met cast law that the value of a network is proportion to the square number of users. And the fact is that Bitcoin still keeps on building, right? So even though the price just goes on, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, so even though the price just just goes on on being a bit choppy and it is I think again, it's coin base but they produce the chart, which was really cool. It's just like all the lightning services and fortunately LMbits wasn't on there which was a darn shame. But Boo, Boo to that. But yeah, it just goes to show like how much infrastructure is being built, you know, especially like lightning infrastructure. And that's bringing new uses, bringing new, you know, new functionality and features and new opportunities for Bitcoin. And it's bringing down the bar as well. So the one thing that we all fantasize about when we go into Bitcoin was like it, you know, changing the world with the banking, the unbanked. And although that's a bit harder for the poorer countries where, where the fees can be a bit higher if they're doing micro transactions, lightning changes that completely. So the better infrastructure that we have for lightning, the better we have of that other initial dream of, you know, banking the unbanked. And then also, of course, unbanking the banked because that's what I'm, you know, hoping to slowly do, which is ease off using traditional banking systems, which have only ever milked me for my overdraft usage, right? It's such a terrible system that we built where the people that have no money are the ones that get milked more than the people that have money, right? We should be, you know, it's a bit of a shame that that, you know, that the people get charged crazy amounts of overdrafts and payday loans and all that. Just stack some sets and hold on tight. And, yeah, and Bitcoin will show you the way, show the light. They're not, they're not called overdraft fees anymore. They call it overdraft privilege because you have to privilege the opportunity to overdraft. And I grew with what Dan said, we used to talk a lot about banking the unbanked. Now, I think that we're going to be banking the banks. Yes, that's right. The people who needed Bitcoin, it turns out are the banks. They're the ones with all the money anyway. They love to make all these vehicles and these platforms and they just keep making them and they keep making money and you keep losing it. And now to predict the price next week, Ben, arc predicting against the travel magic eight ball, a magic eight ball so small, you could lose it on your desk with nothing on your desk. Ben, arc, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? I think we the lower off the lightlining. It feels a lot to me like the the three K Bitcoin, which we had in the COVID period, which again, was a very make a centric time when people stopped talking about the price and they were just building things. I mean, probably the reason I haven't been aware of the prices, people are talking about it less on Twitter because they're all depressed and sad and that's a proper bear market. So that these constant tweets people had where they were just like, oh, you know, we're coming out soon and we're going to take off and we're going to hit this resistance zone and go back up. That seems to be lessening, which is, I don't know, when you feel like you're really starting to hit the bottom. So we're getting there. And yeah, just as we did with the three K Bitcoin in the COVID period, where it felt like, you know, it was never going to go up again. It will obviously inevitably always does and it will go up again. But for now, lower off that line. Laser eyes. Oh, where are your laser eyes? We need some kind of ballot a song about laser eyes. Martijn Wischmeier, higher or lower? I think we'll be going sideways. So probably a bit lower. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't feel like the price is going up anytime soon as soon as the feds that starts tweaking those rates again will probably see some action again until that is just, you know, nowhere. Sideways, the worst of all possible answers. Josh, Dan Eves, higher or lower? I'm going lower. I'm sticking with my guns. It's going to be a bit like buying opportunities, fire sale. Fishing isn't continuous. Josh, is it all negative? Is this the negative group again? Yes, sadly, it is. But I do think Dan, you should make, you should be Patrick Swaisy with laser eyes. Yeah, I think that is good. That is good. Yeah. Yeah, lower, unfortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately. And now the only vote that really matters, the magic eight ball, the predictor of all predictors, smarter than other predictors. And will it be higher this time next week? Says no. Pretty straightforward from the ball. The ball says no. So so much for optimism. Moving on to issue two issue two, Kraken, cracks open the books to prove Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple, Cardano, and Tether reserves as crypto exchanges draw scrutiny. At the same time over at CoinTelegraph, they're wondering, can exchanges create imaginary Bitcoin to dump the price? I wonder, Martin Wishmare, what do you think about Kraken providing proof of reserves for the third time way to go Kraken and everyone else for not providing proof of reserves, perhaps leading to this imaginary Bitcoin price dumping nightmare? Yeah, of course, I applaud all these. Well, it's not a really proof of reserves. More like an S-Test station, it's not like an audit. But for example, Kraken isn't the first one to use the service from Armanino or Armanino or something like that. They also have been doing the audits for or a test station or proof of reserves for Nexo for quite some time now. I think it's a good way to prove how much crypto and exchange has and their balance so that they count like, you know, fiddle with the books too much. That I think is good. On the other hand, I've been looking at those reports, not necessarily from Kraken, but the ones from Nexo in the past. And I've found even though all the crypto is being accounted for, there's no word on the amount of the Fiat balances if that really is like what they say it is. So if that's not the case or not audited, then, you know, these numbers don't really say much because, it's the Fiat balance on an exchange is part of the equation. And if that's not audited, at least I can't see it in there, then it doesn't really tell me much. But yeah, it's good. That's part of the brilliant new technology with crypto. We only have to auto the new, auto the new stuff. Forget about the old stuff. They used to have audits in the old days, but we don't even have to do those anymore. It's called Armman. It's trust explorer by Armmanino. Yeah, it was like the clothing brands, but within the, you know, behind it, Armmanio or Armmanino. So yeah, but I think it's fantastic. It's an improvement in the way we can all did real time, audit or see proof of research. As I said, without the liabilities or Fiat balances in there, I'm not really convinced. It would be fascinating if we could truly see how many Bitcoin were on each exchange and that if we could add that all together to get a general idea of how many Bitcoin were on the exchanges. But we do get that. If you go to the trust explorer for I haven't found Pracan's trust explorer. I've only found the article, but if I go to Armmanino, trust explorer for next, so you can see that next house assets are in excess of 100%, and 92,000 consumer Bitcoin cost customer liabilities. And it sells you tells you how much percent is covered. So more than 100%. So that's fully backed. You can press on refresh and it will do a real time refresh of the audit while you're waiting. So that's pretty cool. I haven't been able to find it from cracking yet. I'm sure that's hidden somewhere on the site, but didn't have any time to figure it out before the show started. It's always interesting when they have those articles and they talk about this many Bitcoin leaving the exchanges, this many Bitcoin entering the exchanges. And it gives you a good idea of how many Bitcoin are actually being traded, how many are being held. Then of course, if 140 Bitcoin exit the exchange, you don't know if that's being sold, if that's being cold storage, if that was traded to someone else or if they just moved it to another exchange to sell it there. So the more information we have about this stuff, the better. Josh Shagall, I know you're fired up about this issue. You were involved in Mt. Gox. You helped create Voltoro to prevent another Mt. Gox. What do you think about these proof of exchanges? And more important, what about the possibility of naked short selling on one of these exchanges that isn't proofing their reserves? God unmute yourself, Josh. It's like Zoom Tuesday. Nude. Nude. Yeah, it's a huge problem. I think Kraken uses the protocol that Peter Todd and Gregory Maxwell came up with, which is using some Merkel trees to basically hash all the way up to the number one. So you don't have to see everybody's holdings, but you can trust that the hash does all match up. And while it's great, it's still very, it's still in transparent, I find. But there's also this sort of, you just have to trust this green tick that pops up. Boom, yep, over reserve. And you're like, okay, you know, and this was the main issue that I had with it. And that's why we created the Glass Book Protocol for Voltoro.com. But what Martin Kate said is really valid. You cannot audit the actual banks holding the Fiat. And so a lot of these exchanges have vast amounts of Fiat sitting in bank accounts. And we don't know what those banks are doing. What are they doing with it? Are they highly leveraged? Do they weigh over exposed in some sort of ridiculous tool financial tool? You never know. So if we have another financial crisis 2008 that brings down some of the major exchanges along with it, then that would also bring down the crypto space. It is what it is. We are very well connected into that space. And it's also a good thing to be connected to that space because the on and off ramps are so lovely nowadays compared to back in the day. But that is a downside of it. Yeah, one of the ways that we got around it and why I started Voltoro.com that's volt as in gold, volt and ore as in Spanish for gold is that an allowed people to trade into allocated gold Boolean which can be audited and counted. And it can be fully insured. You know, bank accounts are only insured to 250K in the US, only 100K here in Europe. And so by holding actual physical Boolean that you can trade back and forth into crypto, you can hold as much as you want. And it's fully audited and fully insured, not like bank accounts that I don't know. I don't know what's going on there. So that's one of the reasons. But yeah, I think it's definitely a step in the right direction. If anything, it's just good to see them saying that, hey, here we go, here's the audit. And it gets in the cultural zeitgeist of people demanding it. And people like CoinDesk and saying, hey, you know, sort of putting the pressure on to always have some sort of technology to show it. So Kraken and stuff, yeah, the banking side is very transparent. What I would like to see is some of these exchanges that don't even have bank accounts. All they do is trade crypto with, let's say, other crypto, you know, tether and stuff like that instead of having a bank account. And seeing what they have there makes sense to have these four audits. But I think those days are numbered for those full just crypto exchanges because decentralized exchanges are really getting good now. And I've started to see some amazing technology coming out where we can even have all the books. Excuse me. It is it is interesting. Like you said, Josh, that while we don't know the exact position of their fiat reserves, at least we can get kind of a percentage number that maybe there 50% crypto, 50% fiat, then we could look at other exchanges and say, well, that one's 70% crypto, 30% fiat, and you could kind of judge perhaps the risk if the US or the dollar market went down, which exchanges could theoretically be stronger. Yeah, yeah. And in Europe, it's kind of interesting, because Kraken have vast amounts of euros and they have to pay negative interest fees on those as well. So they have all this liquidity that they need to sort of remove and move around and be quite clever with. And this isn't just a problem with exchange, it's a problem with general business in the Europe eurozone is that they have to deal with this side effect of having negative interest rates. Anyway, yeah, I think it's a good thing and we should keep on going. We should keep on pushing for it. One thing I don't like that Barry was a very silver, the proof of keys thing. I like it. I love it. I just didn't like the date. It was like the third of January. Everyone's I'm freaking holiday. Every exchange has got skeleton staff. And then you know, to be truly secure, you don't want to make it that a skeleton staff can like just drain the cold wallet because everyone's pulling their coins out of exchanges. So I'd much rather see what you know, prove your keys or everyone pulled their money out of exchanges once a year. But do it not during the holiday season that would be useful. Yeah, I think it was trace mayor. There was always a little bit of like let's crash the exchange in there. They they loved it. If you had to pull from your deeper storage or your long term storage, they loved it if they could have a delay and they'd say, Oh, it took you two hours to get my coins probably because you had your security set up correctly. And you had to go into the vault to get the more money because it's this weird January third and all the Bitcoiners withdrawing their money for no reason. It was a fun idea, but I agree with Josh. It's much more about being responsible for your own coins. And I think everyone just needs to think about back up about once a month. Once a month when you pay your rent, back up your files, your keys are one of your files. Maybe your most important file. And back it up. You could always buy a second treasure. You can always hide it in a second location. You could always get a second safe deposit box. You could get a second safe in your house. You just aren't thinking about this because you're used to your Bitcoin being worth, you know, almost nothing. And now they're worth a lot more. They're worth a second safe. They're worth a second treasure. And it is interesting like Josh is saying all these great ideas about proof of keys and all this. It would come down to a green light on the top of the web page. And as long as the light was green, we know that it's been audited, it's secured. We'd never click on the green light. It could be another mount gocks even in a best case scenario. Click on the green light. It brings up a merkle tree. It starts showing you all these patterns, all these connections. You still have no idea what's going on as a customer. It's I like that it's happening. But as a customer, you still don't really know what's going on under the hood. Yeah. And this was why the Glassbooks Protocol is what we developed to get around that because it was fairly easy to understand. It was like, here's an anonymous ID. Only you know it and we know it. Now you can log out of the system and we publish every anonymous ID with everyone's holdings. And that's in the, and then we publish how much gold they've got and then we publish all the auditing certificates and how much gold is in the vault and the insurance paperwork and we publish the cold wallets. The problem, the only, the last problem with that was to publish the hot wallets was way too many addresses. So you know, I was thinking of doing, of publishing the, the M pub key, but what's that? Expert, why? Expert. Yeah. But yeah, people were like, no, if one address gets hacked and then security and so it's like, do we publish the ex-pub? It would be really good because then ultimate, ultimate transparency. And I think there's something there, there's something there we should be able to do it where we can publish an ex-pub and it would allow everyone to check the entire hot wallet holdings of the public exchange compared to how much people are actually holding. Well, you want to go pretty far, but you don't want to go as far as that casino owner in Ocean's 11 where he's like showing the criminals the vault, showing the criminals, the touchpad, showing the criminals, the computer system upstairs. It's like, we are so secure, look at us. We can just open it all up and then that ends very badly as we all know. Dan, Eve, your thoughts on crack in providing proof and the danger of naked, short selling Bitcoin. So I think it's a good idea. You know, any any Bitcoin's built on transparency, right? It's a public, it's a public ledger. So any exchange that's that's trying to be as transparent as possible is going to do more to gain trust. Although obviously there's the saying of, of, of, of, of, try, run the same now. Trust, don't verify. No, that don't do that. Try it verify, don't trust. That's it. So ultimately, you know, they want to build trust and it wasn't Jesse Powell, like recently, saying about, you know, that, that people should should be holding their own Bitcoin. So maybe this is possibly, you know, even though he hasn't it owns an exchange, maybe this is something that's maybe reactive because he spoke to people thinking that it was kind of like giving an underlying that, you know, message of like, you should hold your own Bitcoin and they're like, oh, maybe crack and go for problems. And now they're trying to, you know, trying to be as transparent as possible. I don't know. But ultimately, the, you know, the more transparent you are, the better, you know, the better it is for your, for your customers and to gain their trust. And so we're going back to the, the, the proof of keys thing. So I think, you know, January 3rd, the reason why it's that day is because it was the, the, the genesis block, but the reason why probably move it is because for Trace May, because he wanted chaos, right? He wanted the I, you know, in a nice, possible way, because it encourages you events like this, although they, you know, they, they cause bank runs or, you know, exchange runs, for example, or in theory, that's what it's meant to do. If there's a mass exodus from exchanges, it, it promotes the principle of, of holding your own private keys. And that being the safest thing. With regards to the, the publishing the expub, I think that's kind of a good, a good idea for one thing, where I was thinking is if there was a hack, for example, and, and, and your expub was public, you've got the community to help kind of trace the funds because they can use the expub to, to, to, to kind of instantly start snooping and checking everything. So as well as being an ongoing good thing that you're, you're being transparent. It could also be good if you did need to kind of get sniffers on the funds and, and track them, etc. in the event of an attack. But ultimately, the, this, this whole thing, I didn't quite understand the scenario of like, an ex you giving 10 million dollars in this other article about, it, creating the imaginary bitcoins, the next short, next short thing, for example, where they, they, they give 10 million dollars of a stable coin. And then the exchange gives them 100 million dollars, so, of Bitcoin. And then that's all traded. Like, surely, like, that's a, I mean, actually, that's a bad deal for the exchange. I didn't quite get, get how that, how that, how that, it's leverage, right? They're, they're giving you leverage on your investment. Oh, so it's just, it's literally just like leverage trading rather than, but what's really neat is as an exchange, you could just say, you have the Bitcoin and not worry about it unless you withdraw them. And as long as you take the Bitcoin and short them or long them or whatever, keep them on the exchange, the exchange can't lose money. It's, it's you that will lose. Yeah, yeah. Because, because if they don't exist, you can't withdraw them in there for your killing your businesses and exchange because you're then showing that you don't actually have the funds to back up your, but you might allow somebody to have a lot of fun with the price. Yeah, but then is it too well spread right now? Like, there's so many, I can understand back in the day when, when the liquidity was like all centered around a few exchanges, like, you know, is it like 80% when Mt. Gox fell, it was like 80, 70 or 80% of trading volume was on Mt. Gox specifically. But now there's so many exchanges that they're doing pulling that trick on one exchange. Is that really going to have such an effect on all the other exchanges? It's, it's tough to say it depends how smart the average trader is. If the average trader knows that there's only 21 million Bitcoin, and I come up shorting maybe, say, 10 million on one exchange, because I bought a million dollars or a million Bitcoin and I bought leverage on that. So that's 10x. And then the exchange doesn't actually have them. Like, maybe there's only 7 million floating around freely or 18 million or something. The exchange doesn't have them, but the effect on the market as long as enough people see my giant short and then follow me down, we could crash the whole market just by having a big enough number after the short. True doubt. True doubt. Well, ultimately, they think about auditing those is that the banks were audited and then during the last financial crisis, they still have the auditing firms back then, you know, PwC, all the big ones and banks still fell. So whilst auditing is a good thing and at a station to go thinking of the auditing is good, it's still not bulletproof. And, and you know, you can, you can still fall, fall victim to a bank going down if, yeah, if something crazy happens. And Ron was fully audited, right? It was. I just got to get audited by the right people. Ben, Eric, what do you think about Bitcoin and short selling naked? This, this was the point of the 2008 financial crisis, wasn't they couldn't balance the books because the value which they had on their books didn't exist. So it's the same problem which we're ballooning to here with exchanges that there could be potentially value there, which does not actually exist. And this is why auditing and the stuff which Jesse Powell is doing with crackiness is a good step in the right direction. And you know, with public key crypto and cryptography, we do have the ability to use these mercury things to provide proofs. And some of the, the glass books protocol as well is possible to, to, you know, to build solutions to get around some of these problems. It's a step in the right direction definitely and it will pressure other exchanges to follow suit. I think it's one of the reasons why a lot of people trust and enjoy using cracking because they feel that their funds are more safe and more secure on there. But ultimately, yeah, just making it easier to be custodian for your own funds. And then also engage with exchanges at the same time is, is, you know, a very worthwhile goal. We have like, with Ellen Betts, we're going to develop in this, you know, $8 hardware wallet, which we can use with, with, with Ellen Betts. And we can have an X pub and then we can sign the PSPT, a partially signed Bitcoin transaction, transaction on here. And it works really well. So as hardware wallets become cheaper and easier to use and people have more people have access to them. Because I honestly think that just the price tag of hardware wallets kind of puts people off, which is a real shame. And it should be something which, I mean, I remember, I think it was Bitbarking back in the day in the UK. If you went on there and did a trade and it was over $1,000 or something, they would then one of the admins would come in and say, have you got a hardware wallet? Do you know how to secure your funds? This is how you secure your funds, go buy treasurer. And there's a really good practice for the exchange to do that. And I think similar practices could be adopted by some of the exchanges that people use now. So, and I think Jesse Powell is going in the right direction on that point. Regarding the Miracle Tree proof, this is exactly how Armagnino does the audit. They use Miracle trees. I don't know exactly how, but this is the method they use to prove the reserve. With a Miracle Tree, you can just leave out, you can have, go through the tree and then you can prove that you have X funds without revealing all the funds. And then similarly, other people can do the same things. It's a way of getting proof without having to reveal everything. So, you still maintain some privacy there. But I think there is definitely some work which could be done on this. I think probably things like Taproot will make for Bitcoin, at least to make care. Regarding hardware wallets, do you really think the price is too high? Because, you know, people, ladies spend like what, a thousand dollar on a book or thousands on a book in back or on a Gucci back. So, you know, if we want to have like a wallet, and we spend like 60 bucks or so, I think it's like nothing compared to their book in back or Gucci back. So, I think it's, I think it's a bit much cheaper. And then if you say you've cracking Bill into their system, some way, if you having your X-pub on cracking, and then being able to generate addresses and receive funds, and then being able to sign those funds off when you do trades, just using a hardware wallets, but they just send it to you, the cracking hardware wallet, you know, they've got your KYC, they've got your address anyway. Why not? You know, I think it's something which is plausible. I think that as the value of the price of these things comes down, then people will be more likely to give them away to customers to secure their own funds. Yeah, also, one of the things that we did Valtoria was the first exchange in the world to implement the Lightning Network, even though we haven't got it at the moment because we folks on other stuff. But at the time, one of the use cases was that we don't need to hold people's funds now because the Lightning Networks so fast that if someone wants a trade, they could type it in, and they get the QR code, send the Bitcoin to a big and instantly trades out. So, you don't need to hold those funds, and as soon as you trade back, to big coin, it's good. We're going back to the wallet, and it's really chill. And Cracken now does have Lightning running, and so yeah, I'd like to see tools like that come more alive where you just deal with trades in an offline wallet, exactly what you were saying then, right? Yeah, with Cracken, it's still a little bit slow because you have to like verify the address, you have to like email that this is an invoice, so it kind of becomes a bit clunky, but yeah, hopefully you will get. I'll be invoice. Yeah, so when you want to withdraw funds, you have to like give them an invoice, and you have to like verify it with your email. It's a little bit clunky, it's not like just a case of scanning QR codes or whatever. I think this is because of security. Cracken is also one of the few exchanges that doesn't allow you to just send Bitcoin just about anywhere, like Coinbase does, is that you have to whitelist all the addresses that you're going to use for withdrawal, and yes, you have to confirm them via email, then it wants you to log in, you're to factor authentication, and you have to go through the old whole thing, but this is not a bug, it's by design to keep your funds the saffel. Maybe with this fediment stuff, if that ever takes off, then it's more of a bar asset, which is easy and quick to send through to exchanges, and maybe if the bunch of exchanges are in a federation with a fediment, and then they're sending this to our mini cash for doing trades and things, maybe that could be a nice little solution in a year or two when that happens. It is interesting on the hardware wallet. I think we'd like it to be around $20, so that any normal person could buy it, but then if you think about someone putting thousands of dollars on a device, maybe it should be $70, you know, it could be, that's what's so strange, you want everyone to have one, but if you're cheap, it doesn't need to be, it doesn't need to be, hardware wallet companies have just been making a decent Rookamoney for a long time, I disagree with that, yes, you can make it cheaper, or the owner what they've seen now at Satoshi Lapse, that makes it, who make the trash ore, they are going to not crowd fund, but they're going to design their own open source, secure computing module thing. So that's currently a problem, because there's no real open source security module, or secure, well, I don't know what the exact name, and that they are currently working on designing an open source security module, not just for the trash ore, but just for the entire industry. I've seen any price quotes, even for like a design in that direction, they're laying in the seven digits, that's really expensive to do, and yes, if you charge like five bucks or ten bucks for a wallet, there will be no money left to do any research into making the wallets better in the future. So I'd rather see the price remain the same, and then know that they are healthy and that they can keep continuing developing the product, then trying to scrape the bottom out of the barrel and get the cheapest deal as possible. I've got like five different hardware wallets from five different vendors, and the only ones I use are the treasurer, really. Yeah, I try to maximize as well, I love the treasurer. This thing here is secure is the original treasurer hasn't got HSM, but built at the original treasurer. Correct, the original doesn't have that too, because they haven't designed it yet. Oh, curious, and it's not just that you want the wallet to get better, you want it to stay secure as well, so they need to have security teams, they need to be testing it in the first place, they need to be testing it after it's released six months later or a year later. The more we try to push it down to a cheaper category, the more likely that someone's going to lose their funds, and then there's that whole kind of problem where if you're saying, well, it's a small piggy bank, you can only put $100 in or you can only put so many quarters in, right? But the problem is each of these piggy banks are essentially infinite. So someone could buy the $20 hydro-roll wallet, put $20 on it, which seems appropriate, or they could put $20,000 on it, which seems like a potential nightmare, either from security, bad design, cheap design, any of those things could destroy your $20,000. Something which keeps me up at night, supply chain attacks, and I think that's huge for hardware wallets. They're not really that big. They know what they're building. Always recommend if you're if you want to buy yourself a good Bitcoin wallet and a hardware wallet, always order from the original manufacturer, sorry for the resellers, but there's just too much risk there of supply chain attacks. It's also interesting you want the company to be big enough to do hardware and to do all this stuff, but also small enough so that it's not owning all their hardware and tricking all the people, but also big enough that they won't get owned and all these things. It's an interesting, you know, place that to pit. That supply chain attack was a question actually that someone asked Stick at the Yorker blockchain days about how, you know, because even, you know, even just sourcing different parts and where they come from and where they get assembled and, you know, just, yeah, it's a really, you know, there's got to be some element of trust, but in terms of trusting in the process, but it's, you know, from from their side, it's so meticulously planned that for a bad actor to become successful, that, you know, they've got to be, you know, putting off some insane sort of attack, you know, because they're very, you know, very tight with security. So there's obviously a level of trust that they have to have in what the users have to have in their process in order to make the, but then you have that trust anyway, right? You have the trust that your operating system that you're running that you have trust that Apple, for example, doesn't have hardware hacking, or sorry, wallet hacking software as part of Mac OS, right? And you know, anywhere, anything that you use, there's this closed source that you trust that the software works. You trust that that Bitcoin, the Bitcoin software operates, you know, that, you know, it operates in a secure way, right? So you know, we're fair of tie, we don't trust we verify, maybe you're the one trusting, but we're all verifying here. But I mean, like unless you literally can read and understand the code, you've got to put trust in the system that's created it. But no, that's a good gotcha. We're paid workers packaging these things and they know they're going to pull substantial funds at some point and some of the people who are building these things and working these factors very clever and can can build a corrupted hardware wallet and sneak it into the supply chain and not supply chain. And it's not just it's not just the hardware wallet coming out of the if they could if they could do that, why are they working in the factory? Come on. If they could make a if they can make a corrupt hardware wallet and they could sneak all the chips in, they're not working on the factory line unless it's a secret mission impossible job and they're just for one day. It's easier way easier way to do a supply chain attack on hardware wallets like a scammer 101 attack is you pretend to be a reseller for those hardware wallets instead of giving them the full box never opened. You carefully open the box. You already initialize the wallet with the secret words and then you put it back in and you pretend that this congratulations with the purchase of your hardware wallets these are your super secrets private keys never ever share them with anyone not knowing this person doesn't know because it's the first hardware wallet. This doesn't know that they have to generate a keystem self. That's already happened. Yeah. Oh yeah, that that would those are so much more convenient. You don't have to set them up. I like I like it when they come preset up like that saves me time. I don't know. Those holographic stickers are pretty pretty hard to go. That's a joke. Well, like Martín said, really if you just take it out of its packaging, get totally new packaging, totally new holographic stickers. Yeah. And if you don't buy trezzers all the time, you don't know what a trezzer is supposed to look like. That's a pretty acceptable attack from the you know Amazon reseller or whatever it is. Yeah, never never resell never buy resell never buy second hand just and I don't agree that it's too expensive. I think 90 bucks for all the stuff that goes in in the back end is pretty it's pretty important. I'd rather it's like exchange. I don't want to use I don't want to use exchange that's totally free with everything because I'm thinking where are you getting your money? It's the same with I don't want to use the social network that's totally free. Where do you get your money? I mean, I'm so on this I'm using Ubitcoin which is step inside Grab's Spectre wallet library and it's got so many eyes on that code. It makes me feel secure and fluffy and then also I also like I ordered this. It's just a regular normal micro controller where I ordered it from. They don't I'm going to use it for a hardware wallet and then I've just built my own hardware wallet and we can make uploading the binary onto this thing so much easier. So it's it's yeah I'm more for the DIY hardware wallet. Yeah, but the thing has been like the DIY stuff. You're built for that right? You can you can verify it if you want. A lot of people even if they did DIYing it they have to trust the stuff that they're downloading they have to there's there's learning curves. Sure you can make it as easy as hell but the easier you make it the more attack vectors also get hit. Well, all you have to do is change one line of the config and have it send the money to me or if you're running a script change the line of the script to send the money to me. That's why I have binaries and check sums you can you can download a binary. So the idea is that you've got this sort of thing and Blasca might work on some of the systems as well for the ATM's where you can just install through the browser from your so you can download the binary flash the device and then do an M5 check sum on the binary. Go to the repo make you can see the same check sum and you can be sure that whenever that binary was created that nothing has happened to it in situ and you're you're fine to flash it onto your generic device which has been all from some shop and no one knows you have a hardware wallet. Yeah, that that that is really ultimately the best way is buying generic devices that can be something and but like that's why I'd like to see all generic devices having like key stores. It's going to get out of there. Isn't it when we all start using public key crypt anymore? Yeah, natively. Oh, we're running out of time. We're going to go to a really quick exit question who will become insolvent first? Crackin coin base or neither? Martian wish mayor. I think I think coin base probably. Josh Shagala. Yeah, what a tough question. I mean, it's not neither because you know, nothing lasts forever apart from Bitcoin but I would say yeah, I would say coin base. Crackin crackin is loaded nicely up and having being a publicly traded company, you have all sorts of other crap that you need to do and overheads that you need. I don't know. I don't know. Dan, I'm saying it doesn't make sense. Crackin or coin base? Well, well, I prefer to be fair. I think it's you know, certainly before I think it's bad as much as you know, you can hate on coin base. It's bad for the ecosystem if they fall. But I think coin base is I don't know. I think they might be quite solid because they take crazy stuff like Shibber and probably not saying they do, but maybe because of the integrity of some of the coins likely to take a bit more kind of extra profit on the top of listing fees, etc. So I reckon they're actually their coffers are pretty hard core because slip them a few balls, maybe just saying it could happen. I'm not saying it does might happen. I don't know. But yeah, I think they're probably, you know, I think they're pretty clever. And also they read that they have like this funny electric tent system of generating their keys. So it does seem like although they do some crazy ass stuff, that they also are quite security focused. So I'd like to see neither, but yeah, I think it's it's a tough it's a tough one. Dan, arc, crackin or coin base? I think we all have this intuition and I've got the one day coin base is going to screw up and implode. So coin base. We don't have it for cracking so much. The correct answer is it's a trick question. Coin base will run out of funds, but they'll be purchased by Goldman Sachs. So they'll be just fine and will probably never even hear about it. Or FTX since Sam, Sam back when he's like buying everything. He's buying everything, but I don't know if he has enough for coin base, at least not yet. Check out the world crypto network audio podcast at worldcryptonenetwork.com or Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We have more than a thousand episodes, but only 67 ratings. So there's still a good chance for you to give us a rating. We haven't done a political show in two years, although we did correctly predict the million dead from COVID and the coup from the former president. That's two for two. Moving on to issue three. Never mind the bear developer interest in Bitcoin keeps growing. A new study shows yes, well, the market may be down developer interest in Bitcoin is not blockchain ecosystems. Web three lightning networks and more all spreading during the bear market. Let's go to Ben Arkey. We're talking about this a little bit. What do people do during bear markets? It seems like Bitcoiners and other cryptocurrency cypherpunk people they build or build or whatever that means. No, no, you know, they do they build stuff and the lightning network infrastructure ecosystem industry is having a lot of money poured into it. A lot of great projects building stuff. Very exciting place to be. I think people are starting to become more realistic about the technology. Some of the promises we should be there originally about you know, you can send these micro transactions and it's not going to cost you anything. It's going to be easy to be to do in a non custodial way. I think people are starting to realize it's actually quite hard to like manage and run your own lightning node. It will get easier. It's also quite expensive as well, particularly when we've seen adoption in some of these poor credits like our Salvador where you know, opening channels requires an on-chain transaction and then managing channels is tricky and requires some technical competence you know, like often our channels become unbalanced and we're all fairly technically competent in lightning. So it is something which needs to be worked on and something which I think the original promise which was with lightning network isn't there and I think people they are starting to come to terms with that and then obviously trying to fix that and make it easier to run something like a lightning node but I think it is an issue and it is something which people are starting to come to terms with development wise but yeah there's some great projects and I can't keep up. Now whereas if a year or two ago I could hide an eye on all the different projects which are out there and I was aware what people are building now. I keep just stumbling across these great projects I'd never heard of before and they built our very sophisticated software and it's the talent as well like the level of developers we're now getting in the space is so much better than we had before and with you know it's like with the Alan Bitt stuff you know for us it's like Chris was every day we go into the repo and someone's PR had some great new extension which we hadn't thought of and yeah so the developers are very much taking to this idea of being able to send money around and do micro transactions and then all the interesting applications and clients which you can build with that but there's still a lot of work to be done on the protocol layer and then also you know making it easier for people to use and then also on the application layer as well so and then obviously we do have things like Fadi Mint and Bitcoin is always changing any opinion you have on Bitcoin you have to re-address after about six months because some new developers happen some new things be built and this is a new amazing technology we can all make yourself and build more interesting things on we also see the rise of the Bitcoin only investors the Bitcoin only VCs those maybe like one like Oleg from Fulgove and just maybe like two years ago and now I think there's like several firms which are Bitcoin owning they've got big funds with you know big money investing into them and strengthening the Bitcoin ecosystem so I think the idea is that when you have ourselves or using trying to use Bitcoin and Lightning but I feel that you know it may be years time or six months yes six months to a year's time when someone just adopts the technology it'll be you'll be very functional there'll be a lot of good applications so we should just run smoothly and everyone should be able to use it and hopefully in a as non-custodial way as possible it's amazing how when you're on the right side of technology things just seem to roll down the hill and gather momentum like a snowball I've said this before but I know on on mad bitcoins we used to cover every laundry mat and every soda shop and every corner grocery that accepted Bitcoin and now it's out of control I can't even cover how many people and how many companies are doing new things and the same thing about NFTs I can't track how many people are doing new NFTs which category which ones which sporting figure which major rock star all these people all coming in trying out new technology trying out a new ecosystem that we've been working on building Dan Eve what do you think about the developer interest in Bitcoin people building during the bear market well it's the kind of only thing that you can do if you want to take your mind off it right is contribute to the success of the coin go max the the Metcalfs law thing and you know the way you can build value in Bitcoin that's outside of like the price but is linked is via building something that is going to add more users and add more value to the system because the more users that you have the more likely the the system the value of the system is going to go up and just looking at some of the lightning stats so the around early 2019 there was there was something like 10 January 1st 2019 there was 2,300 nodes and there's now as of December 20th 2021 so there's still seven months ago I just plugged a quick figure is nearly 32,000 nodes they're 1,965 so you can see how much the network's growing that's lightning alone and obviously lightning is just a component of Bitcoin there's all the existing Bitcoin infrastructure that's being built there's things like taproot and services that are going to be built around that there's you know RSCading stuff with with side chains and trying to sort of smash the DeFi space from that perspective and it's just everything that's being built on Bitcoin right now is just exciting obviously there's a lot of DeFi stuff going on which is probably and a lot of DeFi disasters DeFi disasters around like you know US US T thing that's that's going to probably fare quite well for Bitcoin ultimately because whilst you can have your just stable coins you can have something that's just more solid than that which is which is just Bitcoin right you just need to get your head around the volatility but in a in a bear market you know there's there's either arguing with people on the internet checking the price every five minutes and being pissed off or disdipressed all those like doing something constructive and building or educating or just educating someone else or learning yourself so whether that's kind of you know educating yourself by some of Ben's called tutorials building something like build your own hardware wallet you know there's there's all sorts that you can that you can do to kind of take your mind off of off of the the price dips and and keep you know and once you kind of get out of that frame of mind like I deleted all the tickers years ago and you know I'm not going to lie I still I still look at the price I just don't get reminded of it you know you know but automatic dual time but it's just more interesting right when you take price out of it and you just look at the underlying value and just look at the things that are being built around it it's more interesting than just watching charcoal you know big you know big dildo green candle and big big sad red candle although we do like the big dildo green candles of course every now then but yeah it just it yeah building Bitcoin was you know Bitcoin got value by people by people using it and and building on it and yeah that's that's how the network's going to continue to grow and the price will be derived from that the great part about arguing with people on the internet is there's always more people to argue with you never run out you just keep going martin what do you think the price is down is it time to build all or drink all I think I might be more into the drink all plan you know the the amount of development that's that's like you know it's at Bitcoin attracts has been growing for years I think way back in 2013 or 2014 the number of Bitcoin related projects on GitHub eclipsed the previous number one PayPal and with there were like many many different projects you know using PayPal and then on GitHub and that totally changed it now it's all Bitcoin Bitcoin and some extra crypto but mostly Bitcoin and you you see if you look at the stats last year Bitcoin transacted 60 something percent more value than PayPal did so you know even though the price might be down the ecosystem is alive and well and not none of the fundamentals behind Bitcoin changed so I'm not to worry about it I think it's good to build even if you're not a developer you can you can build on workshops you can help people create their own hardware wallet bands tutorials you can help them create a vending machine or a point of sale it's it's educational it's fun to do I learned you learned something about Bitcoin at the same time and by doing that you're also building on the ecosystem see if you're like even if you're like a reporter writing articles for a blog or you know you're happy to run a podcast on the world cryptonetwork you're definitely building on Bitcoin there I mean that's it's not just coding it's just being involved you know that's how I see building and yeah I don't I don't see that slowing down anytime shown on the contrary it's picking really picking up well Bitcoin versus PayPal is a simple arguments and easy choice Bitcoin has better t-shirts so I'd go with Bitcoin Josh Egolla we've also been building our emotional intelligence right we keep losing all our money coming back losing all our money coming back losing and eventually we're going to get through this right will be stronger will be a gentleman of character right we'll have gone through something and that's absolutely true when you when you go through a nightmare of seeing your value drop like crazy you do become stronger afterwards and but yeah build build build and yeah have fun freaking out fuck it talk to people talk to people make you know deal with it be where we're all long you know when you got into this you have to be long and meaning bullish in the long term and and that's what it is and all miners by the way guys all miners have to be long all the time so it's never been profitable even at 30 bucks to mine Bitcoin you always have to hold for the long term so it's always been a long game just just hold on and yeah have fun either build something or get out of the way like Blake used to say you just need to have a longer investment timeline and you just have a longer timeline just push it out there more into the future and see how it goes we're running out of time we're going to move on to the last issue issue four Craig Wright versus Hoddle not a timeline of the legal battle yes there's seven days in court for the Norwegian court for the BSV founder Craig Wright and pseudo anonymous Bitcoin or Hoddle not it's hard to even remember now but I think Hoddle not was mouthing off against Craig Wright on Twitter maybe something saying something allegedly like he's not the founder of Bitcoin and Craig Wright decided to sue the anonymous Hoddle not unmasking him and suing him at the same time famous blogger and podcaster Peter McCormick put his own address publicly on the internet inviting right to sue him which Wright did the McCormick case had settled with Wright winning one pound one pound from Mr Wright and no legal funds but the Hoddle not case is just taking off Josh Shagalla what do you think about Craig Wright versus Hoddle not? it's it's really unfortunate I can't stand this sort of stuff what are you doing just stop it let's build stuff if you want to build your Bitcoin SV go for it you know that's how you win you build a better you build better software you build better protocols you you get people on your side you don't fight them and sue them and be idiotic about it I don't care who you think you are just don't just get on with building cool stuff you know change the world make something cool what are you doing do you just being a dig it is interesting to see what's amplified when someone becomes well off like Craig Wright like Josh said he's out there picking on this little blogger Hoddle not this guy with a twitter account whereas Wright allegedly has yachts and ironman suits and samurai swords and all kinds of things he could be playing with instead of messing with this little kid on the internet but it really does kind of reveal who you truly are martin wish mayor what about Craig Wright versus Hoddle not Goliath versus David yeah yeah I have a bit trouble reading anything about Craig fake touchy Wright because it's it's it's such a attention whore and he just keeps suing to stay in the spotlight and as Josh points out if you want to be if you want to be famous just build something super cool and instead he's just suing others and you know this is toxic mentality that I don't like we don't like it the general bites it's also the only the the reason why we do allow everybody to integrate their own coins into the ATM even though we only support Bitcoin and Lightning all the other coins are included by their communities we do actively block any B S.V. because we think they're a downright toxic I think you know for the ecosystem to succeed Greg Wright and no sorry not Greg necessarily but the whole B B S.V. ecosystem must die yeah if it's not really relevant anymore it's already almost dead but you know in time I think you know this just pay bill better and this is how you get ahead in in life if you're just being bitter and starts to win people then you know you really haven't you you really don't understand how this community is working well as as Malcolm Malcolm Gladwell said in one of his books I forget which one maybe outliers David versus Goliath wasn't actually a fair battle Goliath while he was huge and a swordsman and had lots of strength David had a sling and he could fling rocks at him at up to like 30 to 50 miles an hour so as long as Goliath doesn't get close to David David can hit him with rocks until he fells his his opponent maybe we'll see the same for Hottelknot Dan Eve what do you think about Hottelknot versus Craig Wright well I'd be interesting another interesting case but but it just it really is sad this it's really flogging at dead horse now and you know I agree with the other comments that like that if you want to if you want to compete with someone just build a better technology if you if you're that if you're that clever and you're that amazing and that ninja and you've got you know all these degrees coming out of your ass then like do something constructive with them instead of sue people because that makes you pathetic and fucking weak really doesn't it especially when you're not even funding yourself you're getting funded by a sugar daddy so yeah yeah it doesn't matter how much you can lap dance sugar daddy on his yacht like you just like you saw your life out and like build something constructive yeah it was it's been a travesty but people imagine all the people that he took a lot on that ride with the Bitcoin SV when when they went from proof of work to proof of pecker and like Bitcoin SV is now like almost an all-time low I mean it's it's savage imagine you know all the people that have been dragged along that that terrible I don't it's not even if it's not gravy train but it's just bad right and you know the idea that you know he's suing people for doing serious harm to his reputation like he's the person that's done serious harm to his reputation you know he could have done something constructive with with Bitcoin why imagine if if if all these crazy people didn't didn't split off and and actually did something constructive to Bitcoin if they were actually if they are as clever and amazing as they say they are then the Bitcoin would be even better but it's you know but it's better without them just be fair because they're all they're probably they're actually charlatans they don't have anything to offer other than legal cases so yeah it's it's it's it's it's it's seeming that with all these cases going on the saying of two wrongs don't make a right it seems to be like a hundred wrongs make a right and and he keeps on going wrong and there's more wrongs that are making this right and the right is wrong if you know it yeah yeah for somebody for someone named right is a wrong a know for a lot of time yeah I do like the idea of this uh vlogging a dead horse sketch I think maybe SNL or something else it might be a little too violent but you just have a guy and he's like beating a dead horse and they're like what's he doing always still blogging that dead horse do you think that's gonna work for him uh I don't know and people just keep walking by and he just keeps vlogging it it does seem that's what right is like and then he just continues this quest and every now and then just go to go to is it TX TX high is it TX highway um and just just look for yourself and then the number of the number of transactions is it TX highway dot call line or TX street there's two of them isn't it TX street is the south park style one um but just just have a look at the on the visualizer of of um you know the number of Bitcoin transactions compared to I mean I think they don't even I don't think they don't even have Bitcoin SV they've got Bitcoin cash but they don't even list Bitcoin SV because it's not good enough they got there would be it would be the problem is it would be so boring because the streets would be just empty so yeah it's it's just really there we go so oh there it's TX highway's there you go so look at that broken road they've got work and progress you know it's just it's just terrible that's B cash right so that's not even Bitcoin SV that's that's literally the B cash as well all right so so B B B B SV has even less TX is than that I don't know on that highway it's all very sad but it's never late for them to split again there's lots more coin names Ben Arck what do you think about Wright versus Hoddle not? he's kind of a necessary evil in one way and he could almost be seen as a good thing because he's a very well funded bad actor attacking Bitcoin in a legal way and it's so much like we've got to go through the process so much I'll go through it now you know and like I like I've got to feel sorry for the people who actually have him to go to court with the guy I mean hope you know it would be better not to have him but Bitcoin only gets stronger by having him and Calvin air there attacking it is that what's the phrase anti fragility thing but yeah his Calvin air still unseen is he still is he still is he still good at is he still funding all these court cases? he's still he's still tweeting the most insanely ridiculous things every now and then go well yeah B cash is amazing blah blah blah like OBSV whatever it is he's like oh you know he I don't know if he's still touting giga-mix or whatever the hell that this sort of stuff he's making up but he still pops up every now and then on random things as well and he'll just turn it into like he'll turn it into a yeah a BSV thing. I do feel sorry for Peter McCormack like a lot of people they were like oh cool Peter McCormack said he got to pay him a pound of legal damages because what he said was to find the tree or whatever but that does actually mean that then Peter McCormack needs to pay his own legal fees which I know are very high and props to Roger Verne you know Roger Verne has been back in a lot of this and Pete McCormack has been very you know honest about saying he would use been helping him but Roger Verne has been helping fund Peter McCormack through his court case and sure he's also helping Haldelnaught as well sure maybe he's got vested interest with whatever fighting they have between the v cash and the the thing but he's probably got he's probably got guilt he probably feels bad for siding with fake satoshi remember Roger was one of the first who believed fake satoshi's story outright just completely yeah maybe it is guilt money but yeah so I did kind of feel sorry for Peter McCormack because he also had would have lost a lot of his own personal funds and just having to fund the legal case and by being proof to be guilty even though the court you know they had to prove that he was guilty because he was to flametry but they you know we only had to pay like a pound worth of damages but then he does also then need to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of his own legal fees which Craig Wright would be footed with that bill had Craig Wright being found had Pete McCormack be found not guilty so that that's kind of a shame and I feel sorry for Pete McCormack on that and good luck to Haldelnaught there's a donation page people can donate to if you go on Haldelnaught's Twitter you'll be able to find a link to I think and this has been ongoing for a long time and he yeah I mean like there's the stuff with Craig Wright and the legal stuff it has spooked some cold devs and I know some cold devs you've had to go a bit dark and part of that is because of some of the some of the backlash from Craig Wright legally and it's just not something they want to have to deal with it's easier for them just to become more anonymous in the way they're committing to Bitcoin core maybe that's a good thing anyway but yeah he's a he's a crass in this dude and yeah occasionally pops up when I'm really heard anything of him apart from the legal battles in which he's involved in occasionally that pops up on Twitter but the rest of him and his project and whatever else seems to be fizzled out pretty much nothing now so and I'm sure eventually they went out of funds even the Calvin has go about gambling money I don't know I have a I have a hard time feeling bad for Peter McCormick sure I feel bad for anyone that's in the legal situation but he did kind of ask for he put his address out there maybe at the time he thought it would be good promotion he didn't understand how horrible and expensive the legal system can be but I think that's a good lesson everyone just don't put your address out there if you don't want to get sued now Haldelnaught although I don't know him or the details of his case very much I feel worse for he's an anonymous figure he's out there having fun on the internet putting his goofy messages up and pretty soon this you know allegedly psychopath with a lot of money comes after him and tries to ruin his life Haldelnaught certainly didn't ask for that McCormick kind of seems sadly like he asked for it yeah but I mean someone had to get in front and they and actually take the guy on legally and hopefully he's doing double Craig writes funds so he's got less funds to maybe attack Haldelnaught with I don't know Haldelnaught took it legally but I like Ben's idea that they're they're just testing Bitcoin through the legal system and they come back to his years from now and they're like remember all those tweets we did that all just to test you guys we wanted the best for Bitcoin we knew if it happened early with a bad actor testing it in the legal system it would be better than if it happened later our exit question are we all gonna hug and pretend it's fine Ben do you welcome them back after all this they're just testing well those those two no Roger but yeah come back Roger but no choreographer I think I mean Bobbi anyone can obviously join into Bitcoin and build into the infrastructure build stuff whatever you know fine carry on but yeah no they yeah it's a terrible human Martine Wishmare it's like Kurt Vonnegut's mother night he was doing secret propaganda for the Nazis but he was also reporting everything to the United States as a spy is it all fine can we welcome Craig Wright back it was just all like they were just testing us it was never really part of Bitcoin was I mean Eclipse yes but you never I mean it was always that fake Satoshi I mean like what's there to welcome back I mean yeah I don't know if you want to but don't expect me to host a party to welcome him back now I should go all right even the story that Craig Wright made up as fake Satoshi was a plan to test Bitcoin to make Bitcoin stronger do you welcome him back fuck off but uh but uh you know I always liked I actually really I actually really like Roger but I think he's a he's a good guy I just didn't like you know I think he just really was really passionate about big blocks and man no matter what we think we don't know what the real way of scaling this this is the beauty of what Satoshi created that you could fork the network and uh try different things and I myself think lightning's a much better way to go and keep things one because I feel like whatever size you make the block it'll just get filled up and and the propagation of blocks just takes too long if you have a giga block giga size block it's just it just takes too long and it breaks the system so you know that that's that's my way of going but as a person he's Roger's always been uh helpful for people like Lenore Bregg he's put his money where his mouth is and you know I mean he did I did listen to him when he said Mt. Cox had all the funds there while he was reading the prompts uh on his bouncy ball but uh yeah uh yeah whatever is what it is um yeah uh you know Bitcoin is an open protocol anyway anyone can join I think I think what I'm hearing sounds pretty fair Roger did a lot of good things for Bitcoin he spread it to people at parties he was one of the first investors in many Bitcoin companies he put his money where his mouth was over and over again and even if he just like Josh says just like the big blocks didn't know about the bit main miners scam didn't know about the potential computer problems and data center problems of hacking gigabyte blocks we welcome him back because he did good things but it does seem like Craig Wright has been attacking everyone and everything since he got here Dan Eve do you forgive him do welcome right back get out of here no way what constructive thing could you do could you do anymore he's he'd been embarrassment if he came back to Bitcoin now because of the history um let alone the the stuff that he actually says right like you know it's uh I just keep you know there's so many things like I just that that that video where he's like I remember reading this white paper something something about this white paper when I was when I wrote it when I'm reading something in a white paper when I wrote it and then like you know like you just dropped himself in it so many times it's so ridiculously fake let alone like yeah yeah I witnessed him myself you know as I mentioned too many times like like Uncle Albert's old war stories but like when he literally said you know said to Toshis dead in front of me so like I like you know I just it's just horse crap and it's not constructive right watch me on the other hand I do think he was taken I think he was taken taken but you know I would drift it off with you know with the big block thing I think he would I think yeah I think it wouldn't it be cool if if Bitcoin Jesus on the third fork rose again and came back to Bitcoin but yeah certainly Craig Knight no no Craig Wright knows stay stay with like B S V I mean you know he's obviously doing he's obviously doing wonders for it right right now with all those laws I mean are they even doing anything anymore apart from suing people I so yeah you know you don't need but you don't have Bitcoin is successful and it's not suing everyone so you know just take a leaf from Bitcoin's book and and be good technology and then you don't need to sue people all come on suing people counts as doing something that takes a lot of work I would obviously welcome Craig Wright back if he would only repeat this attack against every other altcoin I'd like Craig Wright to claim to have created Ethereum claim to created Monero Megacoin Terracoin Dogecoin even Curio cards Craig Wright should test all of these other systems and find out how strong they are using only the way he can by claiming to invented everything so we'll hold our breath and wait for that one we're running out of time but we're going to predictions or a story of the week Ben Ark are you ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead but no not ready let me have look now come on you're created a cool hardware wallets we have under no all about it you're just fleshing it's hardware wallets and we are like so curious now we want to know the more about is tweeting about Ellen Bites powering podcast now just read your twitter account Ben yeah I got bit this is this values for value thing so I was looking into podcast 2.0 thing because because you know yeah because I thought it makes sense to have an extension if people are excited about this thing but then I looked into it and they're using key send and I've never used key send it's a LND thing and I was like well come and use LNDRR with this instead of key send and then they'll go up to be able to say had a bit of a Twitter conflict earlier today about that so I was kind of disenfranchised on the whole podcast 2.0 thing but I think you know obviously there's some debates we had there and then maybe we can put a LNDRR in there story of the week so I had Christian Rooza like he came over to visit that was nice and we just spent a load of time on the beach and chat about you know different things and enlightening it's pretty cool to kind of hang out with a real Bitcoiner for a while yeah it's the developers but it's the stuff like the Lee is the story of the week this this country we should have got an Alan Bitson he keeps pumping out his amazing extensions the one he's working on right now which is super cool is the the bulk card extension so you can you know these bulk cards these tap and pay and then you're on with your bulk cards you'll be able to do that Alan Bitson so you'll be able to do on your own node and you'll be able to like have it as fully you know if you're running on your own node not completely non custodial that's really exciting so the yeah the and also you had a great invoicing extension which you put into Alan Bits which is actually our demo server and it's such a low hanging fruit but you can just make an invoice list items and then somebody can just pay for the items you can send them a link and you can print out a really nice invoice with a look your code on and things and yeah it's just it's nice to have some new talent new eyes on the project and yeah of course Vlad Stan is being built in this thing big props to him as well so Vlad Stan's a developer Bitcoin Jazz developer and I got in contact with him a week ago about the new version of the Bowser wallet which is a DIY hardware wallet and we never quite finished it and then we've been able to kind of work on this thing and he's just taking the lead and the stuff he's built is great and he's been working with Steppen and Steppen's built some new functionality into the new Bitcoin library so we can just do a whole bunch of extra security things by encrypting data and so on so yeah it's cool to see all these different people building stuff and then contributing into projects and yeah hopefully the podcasty point out things as well will eventually end up on Alan Bits but see there's tons happening and you can subscribe at Alan Bits or AlanBits.com right something like that Ben? People want to join in tell them the URL yeah something like that yeah yeah keep it on it all right yeah on Bits.com but if you go on the yeah Alan Bits.com you gotta have one point one point of contact Martín Wishmare Ben said he didn't have any stories then it was full of stories I'll bet you have a story as well yeah it's you know the band is this this is modesty is like you know in the ring I think the progress because it's like so much stuff going on at Alan Bits. A general bite we released a upgrade so you can support the Ukraine the update consists of a sort of like extra function with you enable it with the magic keyword as the operator instead of having buy Bitcoin by Bitcoin over by yourself Bitcoin overlightening or on chain you'll have an extra option that says supports the Ukraine and with the Ukrainian Ukrainian flag and if you select that you put some some cash in then it will directly convert it to Bitcoins no fees for the operators that's like you know hard locked in the software such like people do not make profit on donations to a good cause and then all the crypto goes to the official Bitcoin account of the Ukrainian government in total they've received already over 600 Bitcoins on that address not from us but we think by adding it as a feature to the ATMs we can give an extra feature to to to be existing machines and help the Ukrainian people or the government at the same time I think if you run Bitcoin ATM or general buys Bitcoin ATMs make sure you go to your terminal settings in the magic string sections you you section you just type Ukraine as a word you press save and then puff it's on all your machines so there's no reason not to enable it if you find a general byte Bitcoin ATM out in the wild and you don't see the support Ukraine option then do contact the operator now instead to enable it because you know Bitcoin for good very cool a nice way to support Ukraine Josh Gala you ready with a prediction or a story of the week yeah we we found we've released into the public our initial minting mechanism which will be the initial bonding curve offering and we've pretty much chosen that we'll stick with the theorem we were looking at the different options and it's just so much nonsense in terms of the smart contract space out there one thing that isn't nonsense I don't feel is this polygon it's it is quite good and interesting the only problem is there's a lot of sort of centralization there and so yeah there's just so much more liquidity on on a theorem and the fees are quite low now and let's see what happens with this upgrade I'm really interested to see what happens you know obviously being an old-school Bitcoiner I'm not the biggest founder of proof of work but it is that's that's where it's heading that chain so it'll be interesting to see what happens now you know I'm a big fan of supporting projects that really innovated in the space and not just took it and copied it and made it so for instance the theorem really innovated in the cryptocurrency space they didn't just copy Bitcoin they made something new and and a different use case whereas something like you know Binance Smartchanger basically took a theorem and then centralized it across several nodes and said oh look how fast it is now and cheap so yeah I think the devs mainly have it's mainly been a development decision rather than me but we do definitely want to go we're still doing a lot of R&D into cross-chain stuff so I really want to go across into Lightning and or also go across into you know side chains on Bitcoin but also check out some of the other you know other L1s that are doing smart contracts just because I think a lot of people find it useful so yeah anyway check it out in the GitHub and join the discord stuff starting to really ramp up now in terms of what we're doing the team's really really excited and yeah it's just fun being at the time of the project now where we're getting close to launch so it's been a long long road and you know as anyone that's developing software knows it gets tiring developing it's just fun to finally release something but smart contracts you just can't rush you know you really have to because these contracts lock up funds and we've seen too many contracts getting hacked by cowboys just releasing code too quickly so yeah so it's really exciting you can tell probably on today's show I'm a bit tired because this week's been really tough but yeah as usual it's always great to be on the show well you can't beat Ethereum and Uncle Vitalex says he's going to double my coins in September so double your coins in September can't beat that love it when I get free coins Dan Eve prediction or story of the week go ahead yeah I I uh okay nice easy one I predict that Craig Wright is going to lose his case against Hodl-Nor so that's so wow sure sweet like me yeah all right it's important for those predictions good for the community he predicted the price would go down the price went go the went down so it only took 10 rights just have to keep predicting it eventually you'll be right so just stick with that well thanks to everybody for watching be sure to give us a thumbs up down below subscribe if you haven't already and until next time bye