The Bitcoin Group, the American Original. For over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest satoshi's, the best bitcoins, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eave, the crypto raptor. Hola. I'm Ark from LNBITS. Hello. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network. Moving on to issue one. Issue one. JZ's Bitcoin School met with skepticism in his former housing project. I don't have money to be losing. The school which is going to be taught by Lamar Wilson and Miss Naja from the Black Bitcoin Billionaires, sounds like a really great project, but so far has been promoted by haphazardly dropping off flyers into the low income community as well as the idea that if the low-end community could only invested Bitcoin, they could change their lives. Dan Eave, what do you think about the early rejections of JZ's offer of free education about Bitcoin? Well, I think it's, if ever you're offering something to the community that's free, it's a good thing, right? There's always a lot of concern. Think about the whole reason why you have regulation, especially around retail investors, is to prevent retail investors from being burned. Teaching people financial literacy is a good thing. It seems like there may be a bit of vex, but the fact that he did use to do things like give out toys and stuff. Another gift, which was a really nice thing, they said earlier, mum and the old school, the early mum still does it or did it recently. Anything where you're giving away something free to a community is a good thing and trying to educate them. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean it's about trying to shield Bitcoin and invest in Bitcoin, because he's not selling JZ's, not selling them Bitcoin. This course isn't selling them, Lamar and Nadja, they're actually selling Bitcoin, they're teaching people. And that's completely different. In fact, they're actually giving away, what was it, $25 or $30 of Bitcoin, which is pretty cool. Now, some residents said that even if you, some people are just interested, they'll just go and collect the Bitcoin and forget about it, whatever they learn, they'll forget in six months, but that's what happens in school. You don't all this stuff that you end up forgetting, but for some people it will stick in, for some people it will inspire them. So ultimately, it's a good thing. Obviously, some of the other reports, or quotes with that, that JZ's lost touch with his former sort of where he used to live. Well, that's probably going to happen in fairness, because he's now a billionaire. So that usually happens when you become a billionaire, you lose touch with reality, as often we're seeing with some of the billionaires around the world. But I don't think that it's fair to compare it to the marketing of the predatory crypto scams, and also the sub-like, the targeting of, I think the specific way it was targeting of people of color with sub-prime loans, because this is more of an education thing. This is not, you know, trying to sell someone alone and trying to coax them into buying a sub-prime loan and having to have property default and all that. This is a completely different scenario, so I don't think it's kind of fair to kind of make that. But it also mentions about, one of the core values of Bitcoin when I first started reading into it, which is banking the unbanked, right? Giving people an opportunity, and that doesn't mean trying to make people invest in something that they, you know, and go overboard, because what this course is apparently doing is making people aware of the scams, right? And how not to put the life savings into something, because it could impact you by, you know, the recent crash we've seen down to, like, 21K, there were 20, 20, you know, half-K, the Michael sailor, the margin call bar. So maybe he's even featured, like, don't end up like Michael sailor and lose a billion dollars in your Bitcoin investment. Maybe not to that level. But yeah, I think it's ultimately a good thing when you're offering a community some advice and some education. So obviously some people, it's not going to float their boat. They've got big things to worry about. Some people it's going to inspire and really, you know, help them turn into, you know, voters or, or just people that are interested in Bitcoin, how to kind of become a part of that ecosystem. Maybe, you know, maybe there's links to jobs in Bitcoin. I think it sounds like a good opportunity to me, you know, maybe I think that, you know, they're probably, it's nice, it's a nicer thing though, right? To go around giving toys and presents out. So when you compare that to giving people a, like, a free course on financial literacy, it sounds a bit boring. But I think it's cool. Well, it's just like Jesus said, you can give a man a fish or you can teach a man to fish. And I think this is the teaching a man to fish part. And it's unfortunate that the New York Times got all excited. I see it's very easy to criticize Jay Z to say that he's not helping these people. Obviously, the flyers were done horribly. The flyer and company did a bad job part of the outreach and the communication failed there. But really you have to look at the history of Lamar Wilson and Miss Naja and the black Bitcoin billionaires. And it's a rich and widely available online history that the Times could have consulted. Their courses are incredibly positive. Like Dan said, they're about more than just Bitcoin or investing or getting rich. It's about financial literacy and it's about giving people who haven't had a chance at some of these new investment opportunities. I don't think a lot of these people got in the Facebook IPO. They didn't get in the eBay IPO. They're not stock market investors. And they don't have to be again with Bitcoin. They can take the $25 sell it all, but maybe they hold $5 and maybe it's more in the future and this idea like Dan was saying spreads into their head like compound interest. So I think they really need to give it a chance. It's more than nothing. A lot of pre-judgment here. That is Jay-Z himself said in the lyrics from the story of OJ. I bought some artwork for one million. Two years later, that shit worth two million. Few years later, that shit worth eight million. I can't wait to give this shit to my children. You all think it's bougie? I'm like it's fine. But I'm trying to give you a million dollars worth of game for $9.99. Turn that two to a four, four to an eight. It's really obvious and obviously he has millions of dollars to buy paintings, but this idea of investing, this idea of long-term thinking, delayed gratification is a great and powerful idea that they might not have heard yet and that maybe they could give a chance. Ben, are your thoughts on Jay-Z and the education Bitcoin initiative? I mean, I guess from that perspective, someone who lived in one of those houses and they don't like, what is it, $24,000 average household income. There's a lot of problems in around just that community like the parks were broken. They've never seen Jay-Z since I think it was like 2017 when they used to give out the toys and then he's disappeared since then. And to them, he feels like a billionaire which is out of touch and there's maybe forgotten his roots. A lot of the people living in those houses hung out with him when he was younger and they were encouraged and they were happy for him to be successful and they thought it was great that he was giving up some of that success back to the community and trying to encourage the young people and give them toys and whatever else, but that kind of fell by the wayside and then to suddenly come back on the scene with this Bitcoin program, particularly with the price of Bitcoin being what it is and they say, well, we haven't got the disposable income to investing something like Bitcoin. And if we did have any disposable income, we probably use it on something else which is more important to us and us around the community. And I can kind of understand that sentiment. I do agree with you that there's some good, obviously teaching people not to get scammed and teaching just general financial literacy to people. But I can very much empathize with the sentiments of the people in the building that he suddenly kind of disflies turn up and they're proposing that this is going to be this course and it's going to help bring people out of poverty. If people attend that course, I'm sure they'll get some excellent content and some of them will be inspired and a couple of them may go on to get good jobs in the industry and that would be great. But I can empathize with the resentment which they feel when you have a billionaire who feels very much out of touch. He's not, you know, lived in those conditions for a long time. He spoke about living in those conditions for a long time but he hasn't actually lived like that for a while. I wasn't at Jack Dorsey as well who this was kind of collaborated with. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that's in general, as we'll see with a lot of the other topics tonight. In general, there's a lot of contempt towards these billionaires, particularly when people are really struggling right now with inflation and all the economic issues which are happening. So yeah, I can, the course will run. Some people will go to it and some people will benefit immensely from it. And I hope that that contact which is then had with that community will expand beyond Bitcoin and they'll think of other ways in which they can benefit that community like fixing the local part for the kids and whatever else. I think it's incredibly tough for someone like Jay-Z or even to a lesser extent Jack Dorsey to know what to do with this incredible wealth and this incredible power. Obviously, it's not that complicated. So look at the black pants and movement. Like the black pants and the white pants. It's founded upon it. It was founded upon it. It was founded upon giving kids breakfast before the winter school. Right. It's Jay-Z doing that. No, he's not. He's a billionaire. And there's a bunch of kids in there who probably don't have breakfast, people go to school. Like with the black pants movement, there was a grassroots movement. A bunch of people didn't have many resources, but they're still able to have like a huge beneficial impact on their local community. And then you have like a billionaire and he doesn't have those basic programs in place. Like he has so much money that that money could be put to a lot of good use in those environments. Well, I would agree. I think breakfast and school lunch are both easy, low-hanging fruit programs that he could get, that he could fund, that he could help people with. A lot of kids don't have that at home, even after school meals, you know, detention and after school programs, things like that to help kids. But there's still, I think there's a disconnect. I don't know that Jay-Z knows about the black pants. There's history, no disrespect meant, and also might not be connected to these ideas. So there's kind of a gap there. And then when they do want to help, it comes out kind of self-serving. Like he gets into Bitcoin now he wants to help with Bitcoin. It's very tough to put that money to work. And at the same time, you just get criticized. Everyone's like, oh, he's not helping enough or he gave us toys once and then he stopped, which could be an organizational issue. He could want to do it, but not even know he's not doing it. It's like for us to cancel Netflix, Jay-Z could accidentally cancel the toys. I just don't know how prepared or organized they are to run kind of a philanthropic. Philanthropic. I just like that, this renewed contact with that community will then spin off into other programs as well, which I imagine it will, I imagine, and hope it will. That I mean, anyone who teaches, you know, you're inspired to give more when you actually make that connection with people. So hopefully that'll happen with these billionaires and they'll actually put their money to a good work and have greater impact, breakfast programs, whatever else needs to happen. And it's also quite possible this could be their first education initiative. Maybe they do another one about civics and politics, another one about literature or history or even just a basic government, how to work with the government, how to fill out forms where to go, things like this, how to work with a bureaucracy. I think there's a lot of potential programs they could give to help these people and or to at least give them the opportunity to have more education. I think always more education is good. Yeah, I guess the problem is that if you have a grassroots movement, like the Black Pants movement, like that people who actually exist in that environment as well, and then they're able with very limited resources to have huge impact. And then if you have like billionaires, like billionaires with huge wealth, which could have enormous impact and they don't use that wealth to have enormous impact on the community where it's okay from and like Jay-Z made his money from talking about that community. Like I can see why they have seen it for years and it's like, oh, you're going to do a Bitcoin program, right? Thanks, Decker. Can you fix the local park as well? It's frustrating, but I do think they have good intentions, but some kind of disconnect there. We're not really going to talk about the price today, but since I do possess the ability to predict the price of Bitcoin, I would feel terrible if I denied this truth and knowledge from you. Obviously I've studied triangles, charts, mysticism, the ancient art of predication and prognostication. I mean, everything, all kinds of knowledge has been placed in this ball. So Dan Eave, the price of Bitcoin, the price of stocks, the price of Ethereum, maybe even the price of housing is all going down and the people want you to predict next week, higher or lower. Oh, I'm all chicken-licking. I think the sky's falling. That's it. I think we're going lower. Like, what's his name? James Cameron raised the bar, but I think the bar's going to be lower for Michael Sala and he's going to have to sell some more of his Bitcoin or, you know, sort of his margin call out. I think it's looking pretty sad, I think at the moment. Ben Arck, nothing but depression from Dan. Are you going to use the R word here? Are you going to destroy our futures? Ten K, man. Ten K, I'm bringing that Ten K Bitcoin when he blew it on the streets and then we can go back up. There's still people on Twitter saying, girl, I think we fit the box. And now we're going to go back and it's the no-no. We still need to learn. And we called it on this show for a few months now, I suppose, maybe the price is crushing, it's going low. And it's going to hurt. And, yeah. And just anyone out there who's suffering, don't worry. Like, HODL, it will go back up. We've been here before. People who've been through this experience before, like, you know, we know what happens. It will then go. At least we can wait for the halving and then it will eventually go back up. But if it follows the previous cycles, 10 K and then whoosh up we go to 200 K. It reminds me of a cheer that they wish we wouldn't do at marching band games. Kill, kill, kill. Blood makes the grass grow. And now the magic Bitcoin eight ball travel edition will predict the future for you. Obviously, this is serious financial advice that everyone should take seriously. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? No, we continue to ask the positive version of the question. And the ball says, ask again, ask again, the ball has much wisdom, but occasionally will not grant it to mere mortals. It doesn't want to break it to us. It doesn't want to break the bad news. Ask again. I'm sure glad I brought you with me, ball. You're really earning your keep this week. Moving on to issue two Elon Musk suddenly hit with huge $258 billion crypto pyramids game lawsuit over Dogecoin. Yes, they're suing Elon Musk, Tesla and even SpaceX saying that the company has the ability to create billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin and crypto value with just a tweet helping the meme-based coin Dogecoin become a top 10 currency. However, Dogecoin lost 90% of its value. And some say that Dogecoin is not a legitimate investment and has no value at all. Then arc your thoughts on Elon Musk's support of Dogecoin and the possibility of the lawsuit's success. Yes, there's consequences, man. If you're going to just chill something for, I mean, it was such a market manipulation. He was just doing, because he knew he could do it in an unregulated market, but there's real world consequences when the World's Richest Man starts promoting something which is clearly very scammy, bumpy, dumpy, past the bag to the next fool. I think again, we called it in the show, we said, you can't carry on like that. Okay, Elon, I get that you've got the freedom to tweet whenever you want to tweet, but there is some responsibility to being the World's Richest Man. That includes not shilling and legitimizing projects which are illegitimate for probably his own gain. And if not his own gain, then his friends and family around him, oh, look at this, I'm going to make the price of Dogecoin. Not just right now. Who are tweets that you buy some Doge, buy some Dogecoin, price goes up. Yeah, sell now because I'm going to tweet some shit. Yeah, it's market manipulation. There's laws in place for these things. And I think this may be the beginning of a few lawsuits which he's going to be hit with. Again, these are such billionaires. Well, you know, it's never too late to settle out of court and we'll expect that for Elon also, Ben, you were right with the 10k Bitcoin call, even though we haven't seen it yet. You were well ahead of the curve being horribly negative about the Bitcoin price. It's been awful. But we forget that Elon also did this for the loals, right? For shits and giggles, right? Elon has jokes, Ben. The rest of you lose all your money, your lives are destroyed. Elon sits back and laughs. So don't forget about that. It's a lot like the man on the moon, the Andy Kaufman movie where they get together and they're like, this is all just a elaborate joke that's only funny to two people. He's like, yes, but we find it hilarious. So yes, much like the kings and queens of old, Elon can just mess with stocks, mess with Do's do anything he wants. And there are no consequences seemingly much like other so-called billionaires. Dan, Eve, your thoughts on Elon Musk's exciting Do's coin promotions. Well, first of all, right? Like... Everyone loves Do's. This is already unfair. He's made me... Team Do's. Oh, no. Well, I'm actually joined by Do's right now. He's made his way up onto the table just for this special thing, haven't you, Dave Grouw? But... Okay, come on. Come on. Do's coin, an investment. I think you've got to be a real idiot to invest in it in literally a meme of a dog with some like... Florescent, like a... A wadget pool, comic sans text, right? Like it's literally a joke. The whole thing is a joke. You know, obviously now he tweeted about it. You could argue whether he was purposely pumping or not, whether they've got access to like wallets that show that it was an orchestrated event or something like that. I don't know. But, let's face it, I think you're a bit of an idiot if you think that Do's coin is a joke, right? No offense, you know, to the person who sued it, but they invested in Do's coin. Like invested. They used that word, right? Funny enough, the Bitcoin Academy from Jay-Z and Jack from Twitter might have helped people not invest in Do's coin, invest in Do's coin. Much investment, such how, you know, all of that. It's sad, obviously, when people buy by the top, you know, obviously you've also got coin base, right? Coinbase listed it like something like 75 cents or something. So that's pretty hard core. It's like a tenth of that value now. I don't even know what it is now in fact. But what is it, Do's coin right now is... Let's have a look. It's currently teetering around 5.6 cents, which is pretty savage if you invested a lot of money in it near a dollar. But the fact is that, you know, it's literally, you know, it's not something that like Bitcoin is meant to be hard money or Ethereum, which has utility and defying and you can buy NFT with it and all sorts of crazy stuff. You know, it's literally, it was a joke. It was invented as a joke. And if you buy something without doing your own research that was literally invented as a joke, that the own... Like, surely, if you're like, is Do's coin a good idea? Let's see what Jackson Palmer says. No, it's definitely not a good idea. He thinks it's ludicrous. It was literally a joke. I'm going to invest my life savings in it and then blame someone. I think he's a bit ludicrous to be honest. And personal responsibility has to kick in, I think, just at least a little bit there. 284 million, you know, that what they said it was a triple lawsuit or something like that. So it was actually less than it became 280 million because greedy Matt, 258 million, because greedy man who invested in Do's coin, you know, this is... Imagine if like this article came out 10 years ago, or say, well, say 10 years ago, we're saying six, seven years ago, whenever Do's coin came out, like, this would be an insane, and it's still insane now to me because Do's coin was invented as a joke. We always discuss it as a joke. And yeah, you know, you've got to take some personal responsibility if you invest a bunch of money in a coin with a dog, a shiba inu dog with like fluorescent comics and text. There was some attempt though by Elon Musk at the time when it was pumping to try and legitimize the project beyond the joke. Like he was tweet about how he was talking to the developers and... He was more centralised than Bitcoin. Yeah, but that always seemed the most ridiculous because at its core and was never discussed by Elon Musk, Do's coin has an inflation bug and they're constantly producing more Do's coin and it's really excessive. Like if you actually look at it from a financial instrument as Dan was saying, as if you were going to invest in the dog coin, in the dog meme coin, if you look at the inflation schedule, the ratio at which is being produced, it's ridiculous to say nothing of his whole Do's galing debate, where he was like, we're gonna scale Do's and it was a nightmare for me and everybody else, I had the PTSD from the block size war because it was the same thing. He's like, we're big blockers again and we're gonna do a huge big blocks of Do's and we're gonna wreck their servers and you know, small blockers and Do's lightning and I was like, oh, it's happening again. We're gonna have to do no Do's 2x. We're gonna fight this again. But it just, it was as if history did not exist. Elon had arrived and like many people do, he was here to save Bitcoin or in this case, here to save Do's coin. I also wanted to talk a little bit about the Do's to a dollar people and just the ferventness of the internet's belief that if you just got on Twitter and you just tweeted that Do's is going to a dollar and your brother did, your cousin, your friends and everybody, if we all just do this, like the laser eyes, it's exactly like the laser eyes. The laser eyes, the laser eyes. It's just that easy. It's just the belief to say nothing of how many units there are of Do's, what the price of Do's, what the value of the Do's coin network would be, if Do's coin went to a dollar, it was absurd. Where was all that money gonna come from? Like at a very nuts and bolts basic buyer and seller, where was that all many of them gonna come from? And how are you gonna stop people that bought Do's coin from a penny from selling every single Do's they have at a dollar? Like the amount of downward pressure on that thing. It was like Paycoin years ago, everyone's forgotten, but Paycoin at the time claimed that they would have a $20 floor on Paycoin. Of course, everyone knew they're like, wow, a $20 floor, that means guaranteed investment. I should short that, right? I should create an instrument where I can move against that and force them to put their money on the table. And that same thing now is kind of happening with Michael Sayler in this $21,000 Bitcoin. He says he's fine, by the way, of course, which is what every businessman would say. We all know about marketing and public relations. So yeah, he's fine, but if Bitcoin's pushed to 10K, like how far underwater can he go and when does it get called because it's the same thing where if you use say one thing like Bitcoin will never go below $21,000, there's a lot of kind of spirit out there and kind of like Joker, Jester, Loki, kind of feeling, and especially with the big money that they're like game again. Okay, I know, sorry, what's the other one? I was like, no, it's the Reddit stock market, the mean stocks. Yeah, they were like, yeah, we like game stops. So we're making it go up. We like AMC is going up. It doesn't matter what the financials are, we like it. And so in those cases, it worked, but you can't push up something like Dogecoin with so much inflation, dragging it down. Let's see, Ben, any more on this? I did a good, pretty good job. And I mean, we, you know, with all these stupid laser eyes, nonsense. So I swear that like Bitcoin will start going back up whenever one gets his laser eyes. And actually, I mean, I think the Bitcoin price is a lot of the downward pressures. So some big whales realizing that there's an incredible amount of infrastructure, which has been built out. And the technology is getting ever more viable and the businesses and services which have been built on Bitcoin are really like propagating, you know, an exponential way, but they realize that at this particular point in time, they can push that price down, grab some cheap coins before the price shoots back up. So, but yeah, no, with the Elon thing, I think there was, it wasn't just a case of him joking about, I think he's a, he's an idiot, man, like he, he started accepting Bitcoin. And then within about a month, was like, oh, no, Bitcoin happens to have a high carbon footprint. And it's like, did you not realize that before you started? But I thought we all thought that he knew what he was talking about when it came to Bitcoin. And he didn't, but just as there's personal responsibility for investors, there's also responsibility for very, very rich influential people to not lead people off a cliff, I think. Well, I was just watching a bit of some more news, the great YouTube show that's kind of a parody satire news show. And he did yet another episode entirely on Elon Musk who apparently made most of his fortune by inheriting emerald and diamond mines, something like that South African money. But what he also said is that Elon's constantly wrong on these things and he'd be in a much better position if he'd never found Twitter. If he'd never gone on Joe Rogan, if he hadn't tweeted all these things, he'd still be on the board of directors for his company, even his deal now where he's trying to buy Twitter. He's actually kind of in a hole there because he signed the deal before he did the due diligence. And now he's worried about the bots and all these other things, but he's already signed the deal. So it's a very interesting thing to see someone so rich and powerful, destroy themselves as the some more news clip said about just to be more popular. He just wants to be liked and loved. He hates it when you say anything bad. But the social media and the Twitter stuff, I mean, with Elon Musk, I mean, that's very much where he makes his fortune with Tesla, like is by promoting mostly through lies, like through these YouTube videos of a Tesla driving to South Africa, go driverless and they like edit out the parts where the driver had to take control of the car before it fit off and smashed into a wall. And then people then buy Tesla. I think they can do that in their own Tesla and killing themselves very reckless, like dude's got blood in his hands. And again, just irresponsible. But he doesn't care because his bottom line is going up, he's getting richer and richer and richer. And he should care. And he does have so much responsibility for his actions and for some of the shape that's out there on social media. Well, as the pie is the pie is the pie said further, it now seems like because of his breakup and perhaps divorce from Grimes that he's gone against the left wing, that he has a personal grudge and then he has a business grudge where he's just against unions and he's against business regulations of all kinds. Despite the fact that his company's Tesla, Solar City, even SpaceX to some degree, are about not SpaceX. But Tesla and Solar City are about saving the environment. They're about fighting global warming. The Republican Party doesn't even believe in global warming. That's what his companies are about. That's what his previous before Twitter, before Joe Rogan, before this breakup with Grimes. That's what he was all about with saving the environment. And now it's a lot more about playing jokes on people messing with the media, dunking on the left. Maybe it's money corrupts, like, yes, to justify his wealth. And the way he justifies it is that I have the freedom to just accumulate huge private capital at the expense of exploitation in my work as in whatever else. But that's the way the market should work. And I think maybe he just gets that point and you have so much money, like, okay, now I base us. You know, you have to double down and say, okay, like, full right wing, Austrian economic types. And I can justify why I'm in this position in which I'm in. And yeah, okay. I mean, this is perspective. Maybe he can just believe about sustainability and want to be a sustainable company. And he obviously they're Tesla's open source, but also not kind of want to cave into some of the crazier policies that are being, you know, inactive, right? Like, you can be a sustainable person. It's like the road. Although you're saying Republicans don't believe in global warming, but you can be a Republican or right leaning and also want to save the environment, right? There's not, you know, it's a false dichotomy to things that they're able to set it, you know, that all Republicans are, are X because people are individual, right? You can believe in some policies and not others. But I do respect the fact that they're open source, right? You even said that, you know, they want people to make better use their code and use their use their IP to, what's the IP, you know, the open source of IP to make better sustainable products. So I think that's respectable, but at the same time, you got it, if you have that rich, like the richest man in the world, you're probably going to mess about with people, right? Like as in, you know, mess about on Twitter, say stuff that's just going to rile people up. Ego's going to get the better review. But yeah, I don't know, I think just ultimately come back to investing in Dogecoin. In that, like just just for those, those words, investing in Dogecoin, it's a really silly thing. Like, you know, you can't use someone for making a ridiculous mistake, I think. I don't want to get too much into a topic we're going to talk about later, but I think Ben and I would probably agree Elon Musk and Tesla and Solar City should make electric cars. They should make solar panels. The rest of this doesn't really have anything to do with their business. There is something kind of inherent in the environmentally friendly businesses that he's gotten into where he's benefited from government grants generally handed out by the left wing government, which supported him early on. And that his customers, especially in Tesla and Solar City, are more left leaning. Right now, it doesn't make that much financial sense to get one of those cars or get the solar panels, but it does make environmental sense. So if you can make a decision above their financial needs, you could get those solar panels. I don't think that his new audience of right wing political people are going to be quite there for him in buying his products. And that's. I was showing my, some of these lithium ion batteries, like some of the mining, some of the shiwis goes on to create lithium ion batteries. And if I'm also used to test this, that's not good for the environment. Hydrogen fuel cells, that's what we need. And again, Toyota, they're pioneering. They've got a great hydrogen fuel cell car, just to say pioneered with the Prius and the electric cars, and now pioneering with hydrogen fuel cell, because I used the future because you can you can fill it up. And then, you know, your, your, your, it's just always comes out of the back of it is just water and hot air. And you don't have to mind all these incredibly horrible chemicals in order to make your lithium ion batteries. That is trusty, Elon. I think it's a spook. I think it was, I've already gone into this run before on this show, but I think the PayPal boys, Teal included, they're all just, you know, coerced by alphabet agencies. And then these rockets going to space, they're just going to be used to bomb people in far off countries. I'm very, very cynical on the dude. And this is why you get to these government subsidies. And then turns around, you know, complaints about government oversight and government overreach, even though like you couldn't build as businesses without all the free money from the government. That is so trusty, dude. But hydrogen fuel cells, cars, that's what we need. I'm not totally sold on hydrogen fuel cells yet, but I do agree there are potential issues with the lithium ion batteries, as well as with the energy used to power the Tesla's. If you burn coal to create that electricity, then you have a coal powered Tesla. So it's important to green the entire chain, even if we can only move it percentages for a while. As we were discussing earlier, it is an interesting phenomenon that as more people tend to make more money and become rich, they go right wing. I think that's again, just kind of personal self interest. Once you start making money, you realize how much of it you're paying in taxes. Once you start running a business, you realize how much red tape there is and you just wish it was simpler and you could pay less. Those simplicity wishes might not be compatible with a complex society where everything affects everything else, which is kind of undeniable. It's an interesting corollary. I wonder if you become as rich as Elon to that billion dollar or 35 or 70 or whatever he's at now, level of money. If you drift even further to the right, becoming one of those cackling rubber barons in a stovepipe hat with a monocle just go and completely against the peasants against the workers, complete forgetting of where you came from, although usually they come from millionaires at the billionaire class. Jeff Bezos is pretty left leaning right? The Amazon isn't he? I thought he was not the Atlantic as well and which is pretty left leaning. It does own the Washington Post, but I think Ben would say Amazon doesn't pay taxes in the United States. I would just start there. It's not left leaning up to the East Point. It's not left leaning up to the East Point. Still screwing the system. There's plenty of them out there. You'll be wrong to say that just right leaning people are not paying taxes and screw the system. Amazon's really renowned for people pissing in bottles and all sorts of crazy stuff. But Jeff arguably is very much left of Elon. He's like the second. I don't know, he's suppressed his unions. He doesn't think with Jeff Bezos, he's a proper free market capitalist guy. He may back left leaning, publications, newspapers or whatever, but he's a proper free market capitalist. I think we're all victims of circumstance. In a corporate structure, everyone's a victim of circumstance from the very low level exploited worker on the floor. But then also, maybe these billionaires who are at the top of the structure, maybe they're a victim of circumstance too, and actually maybe they're molded into what they are because they need to be that because if they didn't feel justified in their wealth and then also their position, then they were quick and they would give all their money away to charity. I don't know, they would do something egalitarian, which you don't want to happen. Perhaps it's a corporate structure, which is issue and perhaps that's what we're all victim, or they're all victims of, including the crazy billionaires at the top who then has to justify their own position in the hierarchy. Well, and I think in a way, this ties into the previous topic with Jay-Z and Jack Dorsey not knowing how to help people not knowing what to do with their money, yet still having this position which then pressures them to share some of their success. I don't think philanthropy is going to save the world though, just general philanthropy, because I mean, even Bill Gates waves off his philanthropic mission. And I would also agree like Dan was saying, Jeff Bezos does seem very liberal. Certainly, I'm sure he'd support gay rights and wavel rainbow flag and it does and other things, but much like we were talking about before the show, BMW waves a rainbow flag now, but in the 60s and 70s, when times were tough for gay people, there was no rainbow flag in the same way like Ben was saying, Jeff Bezos is out there, we've got jobs in Amazon, we're going to help you, but when you say, hey, let's unionize and get an extra holiday or something, he's like, no, no, no, no, all make a great deal with you, you don't need a union, you can trust me. And the trust does a payoff, like it's been hundreds of years, it never pays off. But we've got to get on to the next question, it's hard to even believe what we're talking about, but exit question, will Elon Musk have to pay more than zero dollars to anyone about Dogecoin ever, Dan Eave going back to the original topic? I think it's hard to, it would be hard to have a court case that you win against someone for investing in a coin, whether it's own creator says that it's a scam and that it's a joke. Like, I just think it's a ridiculous thing to try and prove and you know, there is a letter, element of personal responsibility. And you could also say that, you know, that, that was thing is this would pave the way as well for Coinbase going down and any other company that kind of allow Dogecoin to be on its platform, right? So I just don't see it happening. I think the dollar effects would be too, to be too crazy. It's Comic Sans, guys. Jesus. I remember when, when Coinbase was above that and they're like, we're not going to have any scams or questionable coins on our platform. And now they're like, you click on random things and you end up with Dogecoin in your basket. It just doesn't seem like a safe place to invest. It seems a lot more like a casino or a roulette wheel where if you're lucky, it lands on Bitcoin or Ethereum or one of the top 10 or whatever, you're pretty safe. But if you're unlucky, you just invest in Doge and it's that same story where you say, I sent them off to the market to buy, you know, a dollar is worth a Bitcoin and you came back with five pennies because, you know, five is more than one. That's a Shell Silverstein poem. But Ben, what do you think will Elon pay anything to the poor victims of Dogecoin? I get PTSD when you talk about Common Sans. When I was a teacher, I was told by my boss that all resources I produced had to be in Comic Sans because they've been studies. It was proved to be the easiest font to read. And I'd have to do everything in Comic Sans. So I've like, for years, I was having to do my Crafting Comic Sans. I haven't looked into it much, but I think it's a freaking ad. But they said that people read different fonts differently and that in the future, they're going to specify like either a font to you or even better like a custom personal font that you can read faster than anyone else. I didn't do the research, but it sounds like a fascinating idea. That's cool. I'm old for a bunch, two, a bunch, use my favorite font still. What was the question? Elon Musk, yes, he will. He will get sued. And he fucked up, man. It was a joke. And then he doubled down by trying to legitimize his position. And by doing that, he was trying to legitimize Dogecoin as a project. And he would win people. And I think it does any evidence that he or anyone within his, you know, sanctum, son, sanctorum in a circle benefited financially from it, which I imagine there is from his tweets. Then I think that will inevitably come out in the public realm and he'll be held to account for it, which is a good thing. I don't know. He knows. Probably he knows. Maybe it's a good thing. Maybe it's a bad thing. Well, I agree with Ben. I think that the family profiting or the friends profiting or the casual messages, those could be a problem. But in general, I think that Elon Musk pays zero dollars to the victims of Dogecoin. It's very frustrating for everyone. But it's kind of why he's doing this. As Ben mentioned earlier in cryptocurrency, it's not like the stock market where he already got in trouble for making tweets and saying nonsense, which affected the price of everything. And then he got a slap on the wrist and he got knocked off the board. There just are no rules for crypto. As frustrating as it is, he could make all those tweets have all that fun. And there is really nothing wrong. He's just having a big joke. If the family invested, if the friends invested, if people were using this as an indicator, that's a separate issue, probably very small fines. And again, probably against them, not Musk, he can say any horrible thing he wants. And this is even before he owns Twitter. It's interesting going back to Dogecoin being a joke yet the incredible power that the media gives it and gives to Jackson and Billy and the other people. Mad bitcoins was also a joke. I was also very nervous when I started the show that people would see it and take my advice to buy Bitcoin at a hundred dollars seriously. And that I could be held responsible for the disaster that would overcome these people's life. If they'd listened to a man in a mad hat or hat with goggles in a crazy background and invested, and again, in the words invest in Bitcoin at a hundred dollars and pretty much every day since then. But yes, it's very fun to see how these jokes turn out in the media when people don't have a sense of humor. Moving on, check out WCN Clips. Just google WCN Clips or click the link in the description below. We've got 110 subscribers. That's amazing. That's 10% more than 10. Oh, it's 10 times more than 10 than 100 anyway. We've got tiny topics like Roger Verra promotes Dogecoin is Bitcoin winning other cryptos and L-Salador launches the Bitcoin bond. Looks like we need to update some new videos. But check them out on WCN Clips and be sure to press subscribe. It's free. Free. Issue 3 Inside a Corporate Culture War Stoked by a Crypto CEO. Very interesting story from the New York Times this week. Jesse Powell who leads the crypto exchange Kraken has challenged the use of preferred pronouns debated who can use racial slurs. And called American Women Brainwashed. Very interesting political discussions going on in Kraken where they've released a manifesto and said that if employees do not agree with the manifesto, they can have a couple of months of free pay and go work somewhere else. Very interesting things to do with an $11 billion cryptocurrency exchange. Full disclosure I did go to college with Jesse at California State University Sacramento as mentioned in the article Way to Go Sac State Big Time New York Times. And I consider Jesse a friend. I don't hang out with him recently. I don't know about these political views and stuff. And I will try to discuss them fairly with respect to Jesse but just full disclosure there. Dan Eave your thoughts on Kraken, Jesse Powell and the interesting political debates and discussions going on there. Well it's an interesting take isn't it to kind of say you know this is the culture if you don't like it then you don't need to work here. And you know in fairness it's kind of saying you know the I think this idea that once you called not the the jet ski thing, jet ski adventure, go on a jet ski adventure we'll give you four months pay, you've got two weeks to decide. And that's quite you know at least he's kind of being open about it right and saying you know this is the culture. It is in contrast to a lot of the stuff that we're seeing with the the wokeism that is a submissive thing in some of these companies like you know and the impact that's having on their on their sort of you know their stales and whatever. So you know there's one saying which is go woke go broke and there's people that oppose it and there's you know the woke being woke or you know doing the the the current thing is like a good thing. So I think it's kind of a bold thing to do it's you know it's quite serious that it's a big company in terms of in terms of how much is worth and and their operations have got 3,000 employees which is which is pretty hardcore. I think he said that only 20 out 3000 have actually taken up the offer. I think I read that which is about 0.66 percent which isn't a lot you'd expect it to be to be more but some people I think don't certainly see that catering for for kind of the the PC crowd is is you know if you like they don't see it as being pit you know crucial to their business model right and particular country your companies have particular cultures so if a if a CEO wants to breed a particular culture then it's kind of you know as long as they're not breaking the law right is their choice to do it whether it then is positive for business or not is another story it definitely is going down the line to the kind of freedom and the libertarian style like you know you can do and say what you want and sort of attitude which you know respect people for kind of putting their values into their business right because if it does impact their business negatively it's their business and so they're the ones that are going to suffer so you know he's putting his balls on the the tables on the table is it worth but yeah I don't know it still seems like although they were complaints the the glass door rating gave him 96% approval rating so you could argue that either the the kind of general like I don't know the general what works a bad word right because works kind of just made it made it as made it offensive but being PC but you know that kind of culture maybe it isn't such a big thing and that that you know although it's being made out in the media that doing it all these insane all these things isn't you know so positive for business because or it's just the fact that night he's got 96% approval rating because everywhere's toxic in the country and in the company sorry so it's a toxic company and it breeds toxic people they're all toxic like the toxic avenger if you've ever watched that film is crazy I recommend it's quite funny but at the same time yeah obviously I'm a bully I'm with a believer that you know it's intent it's there's the bad thing right and I'm not going on about the end word thing because that's a completely different discussion altogether but like you know if you say something and you have a difference of opinion like unless you're you know you're actually trying to be a dick it's just a difference of opinion right people have differences of opinion and I'm against this kind of culture of of of taking extrapolating out something that someone says into the worst possible thing that's meant to offend people and meant to cause hatred and toxic virality and all this and blah blah blah you know I just think that we you know we're all humans we make mistakes sometimes we say the wrong thing sometimes I say the wrong thing quite often always gets me in the in the crap but you know I'm only human and we're all only human and when someone has a disagreement I don't think they're just an evil person I think they're saying it from their heart but from places so I'm a person of intent and I do I agree one thing I do agree with is that they you know there does need to be with tolerance for I think the quote tolerance for diverse thinking and that should apply everywhere right if just because someone you has a has a has a particular belief it doesn't mean that they're an evil person right they just have a different belief for whatever reason it is in in in their heart I don't know so it's it's it's it's it's it's it's a very it's a very long article very interesting one but down I think I think the end of the date is company right and if he wants that kind of culture then you know then it's either going to be positive or negative for him as a as a as the owner and CEO of that company and therefore you know it's down to him to make that decision well I wasn't crazy with the glass door results well I do I do think Jesse's probably a good CEO it did say in the article that he was suing people who had left him negative reviews so much like Elon Musk I don't think Jesse really likes it when you talk about him negatively on the internet and I would probably avoid doing so I want to go through some jokes I didn't like the jet ski analogy it just didn't work for me I thought instantly of the movie water world and the bad guys had jet skis yet they had crude oil and I don't know where they were refining the crude to turn it into gas so it seems like you're going to run out of water on that jet ski and be kind of marooned out in the ocean somewhere I didn't quite see it as the luxurious vacation fantasy that perhaps he was pushing but that's he made me think of only falls and horses and and when when I think Delvoy gets he doesn't know how to turn on the jet ski and just get sunburned because he goes for miles but yeah yeah there's not a lot of good analogies that work with jet skis especially if you've just lost your job very few people are like I'm going to the beach I'm going vacation I have a disagreement with what the CEO's policy are policies are but I get four months pay I think that's quite a generous way of going right okay so you may not disagree on a political level but you know four months pay is very reasonable to as a kind of you know if only there weren't any months beyond those four months but I think we all know you're still going to have an empty belly and an apartment that pays rent after month five and six brine Armstrong at Coinbase made a very similar offer trying to buy the the woke or the PC or the people out of his company and and again I just think you can't really separate these two things but you can't also have an activist company I think a lot of the activism that you see like in the green or the LGBTQ community and so forth from the corporations is generally very hollow and I think that the libertarian see that and they say hey can't we have a libertarian company and I don't think they realize how hollow that support is and that yes you could have a libertarian company if it was hollow and they don't want that they want the actual libertarian which again I have here it's an interesting idea where you can do and say whatever you want but you can't have your own pronouns just kind of break up there and you can do and say whatever you want but you can't change our culture and our culture document which is you know come down from heaven on glorious stone tablets but this is saying this is a different country saying you can't have your own but you can have your own pronouns I think what what I gathered for Gleam from it is that you can't force other people to say your pronouns right just because you say I am an ostrich it doesn't mean you have to refer to me as Dan the ostrich like you know that's that's that's where I kind of you know yeah that's what that's what I'm I'm with you guys on the pronoun answer I remember oh gosh I just blocked on the name the the Canadian guy the professor anyway the professor goes on and on Jordan Peterson he goes on and on about pronouns and a lot of it I agree with especially his example where he said pronouns are generally used not to offend anyone but behind your back like if you're writing a novel and you said you know he grabbed the the sword you would have to say G grabbed the sword or whatever the correct choice would be it's also the kind of thing where if I was talking about someone behind there's that and I said you know Dan like you know he went over there I don't really say too Dan he like it just doesn't come up in conversation so that was like an interest and that was Jordan Peterson's point that I'm borrowing so yeah I've never been big into the pronoun one but a lot of the other ones about racism and so forth for me it just kind of comes back to the Elon Musk thing and like we talked about the Brian Armstrong thing this is and it's horrible to say stay in your lane like I don't like that saying but if you're a company and you're a corporation you have a business statement and I don't know what crackens business statement is but I bet it's similar to Coinbase where it's about providing financial freedom to the world for providing financial access it's about the tools and the services that they provide which is being in exchange so as horrible as it is to say stay in your lane Coca-Cola they make beverages crack in makes exchanges Coinbase makes exchanges maybe they should focus on this not left or right maybe they should kind of go down the middle and as you know as non-liberal or non-progressive or non it's not spreading new ideas it's not the world's most exciting philosophical company but maybe they could make a great exchange maybe one of these programmers out here has crazy liberal beliefs but as a great programmer and could save you from losing a bunch of money maybe that would be better that whole argument about aborting the cure to cancer I mean I think we've just maybe they fired the programmer who saved the exchange for no good reason so yeah and again historically I do know Jesse the article says he went to Sac State at the time he was a philosophy major so I can see very much where he has kind of an experimental a questioning mind he's able to see Bitcoin earlier than anyone else and now he's saying like Dan's saying very reasonably a lot of the woke stuff a lot of the politically correct stuff might have gone too far maybe we should have a discussion about it sadly I think that discussion would be better off in a little political group or at toast masters or something like that I just don't think it belongs in the exchange and I think it kind of takes crypto back takes Bitcoin back a little and also has this kind of thing where much like with Facebook Zuckerberg has been able to embed himself in and refuses to leave so the company has the same attitudes and such as Zuckerberg forever the companies never getting more adult more serious more complex and now with Brian Armstrong and Jesse Powell turning their very limited financial exchange companies into large political discussions even calling forth the New York Times I don't think it benefits them and while certainly Apple had a disaster replacing jobs with the Pepsi CEO and other things like that that idea of bringing in a caretaker bringing in a professional bringing in who someone who's you hate him or don't like him they're not exciting to you but they keep crackin's name out of the New York Times it might be time for both these companies to replace their CEO with someone less controversial and again that's a controversial thing to say Ben Ark we talked a lot about this what are your thoughts on Jesse Powell in this interesting article from the New York Times yeah I mean I agree like just do as the queen does sit on the fence you know that's why she's successful um DK queen I'm talking about you know she's just focusing heric today like oh yeah no no but I mean that's why she hasn't been like she sits when it's how she made her money when it comes to the fence the leanings and she sits on the fence she sits on the fence on everything she doesn't have like an outward political argument ideologies she's not on slack groups saying that people shouldn't use well for freedom of speech and libertarianism but don't dare use pronouns because if you do use pronouns you should leave my company this is dictatorship and in fact Jesse Powell said that he said okay when I will go to a dictatorship because people don't agree with me and it's like you're being a baby man like don't have an opinion you're right Thomas like he should be replaced by somebody who's more competent and with the libertarians like I think with Bitcoin the first impression you get a Bitcoin of you know the accumulation of wealth censorship resistant money that stuff very much appeals the libertarian sect and it's a sort of thing which actually puts off a lot of the sort of lefty anarchist haka types developers very good talent and it's always been something which has annoyed me because once you get past that superficial understanding of Bitcoin that's like in lambo's and trading whatever else then obviously this beautiful technology which has all this incredible social justice in social good and can really help heal the world and humanity as we all know of course preaching to the converted and the lefty types who see past that superficial first impression they fall in love with Bitcoin just as anyone who understands who takes the time to learn more about Bitcoin for us and love with it I think it's easier for someone of the libertarian mindset to first see a value proposition in Bitcoin from that first superficial impression which is why so like Jesse Powell was able to like instantly see kind of value in it but this this is click I think the biggest problem is the clear contradictions in his argument on on on freedom of speech in that he doesn't want people within his company to actually have free speech and to use their own pronouns and if they do then they can just leave and he'll give them informants pay and he's turning a while off good talent like within the developed community there's a hell of a lot of trans people who are incredibly gifted I know a couple of red hat developers who live nearby trans and their geniuses and they're not so sorts of people you want to piss off a why piss them off because what are you building but they say Thomas you're building an exchange like it has nothing to do with your orientation or your gender or whatever else is this completely neutral like it's it's you you're building like an exchange a Bitcoin exchange so I think to be honest like it's a symptom of stress because the price of Bitcoin is going down quite dramatically I know that Kraken has had to shrink in size they've had to lay off I think 18% of their workforce and we're all a bit nutty anyway from all the covid stuff and now we've got all these financial pressures as well and the Bitcoin price is tanking down towards 10k and bringing down all these other you know altcoins and stuff with it so these exchanges they're stressed out they're on the slack they're trying to vent their stress and then they're picking fights you know with you know trans by being transphobic or whatever else the wokeers of itself like the the idea of PC-NAS it's it's important that the pendulum swing that way because the alternative up a few decades ago would be fucking trans people being strangled to death by sexually repressed cis fucking you know people who would like the the trans community for example like they they've they've they've just using them as an example on the gay community and and and unless being to all these communities have been very much underground and have been victims of some real like horrible violence for decades so I think that quite often like it's a margin it's a question of is this a sociological question when it comes to marginalization like we can't release as you know straight white males or whatever we can't see the periphery of the argument because we're not in the periphery of the argument we're in the center in a privileged position so we don't have the best we're not marginalised so we don't have that subjective view in which some of those people and some of those communities do and sometimes their reaction when you have some like Jesse Powell like question that they're wanting to use pronouns and things and once in touch it's been accepted practice within a corporate culture their objection can sometimes seem like over over dramatic like over like too too over dramatic but actually it's a very good reason because there's a hell of a lot of like you know suppression and oppression of those people and those and those cultures but yeah I mean he just shouldn't have an opinion on any of this stuff publicly friends family absolutely you know whatever discuss these things and it feels sothically he wants to discuss whether using the annual end word is fine if it's done in like a certain way then if you want to have these discussions cool like within you know private channels but don't do it publicly and then don't also make like people within your business who are working and are probably working very hard to try and make your business successful don't then marginalise them further by you know attacking them it's just it's it's it's it's utterly pointless and then it's comment on women being brainwashed and and whatever else it seems to be like it's like a yeah another probably easy ability and that is probably a billionaire like yeah the end of the billionaire slow motion train wreck of being too public for their opinions when really they should do as the queen do and just sit on the fence and focus on running the company running crack and they're not pissing off all those great trans developers which there are many of on I agree as a as a high level CEO Jesse should be learning about being a better CEO and focused on being a better CEO like Ben said understanding racism the history of racism the history of people being against gay people all the other problems that we've had that's a complex and time consuming practice that I don't think he has time for nor he should really be focusing on like Ben said if you want to talk about with friends and family privately or even create his own organizations or salons to discuss these ideas on his own time as a public individual that'd be fine but as a CEO I don't expect him to know about the levels of this argument and I don't really think he should be focused on it if he wants to continue being CEO and as the company gets larger it's according to the article an 11 billion dollar company that's unfathomable for a lot of people especially a lot of people that spend their time reading history we're not business people we're not marketing and all these other higher level things that are going on at Kraken and that perhaps you should be focusing on charts and graphs other things moving on to the exit question the political CEOs Brian Armstrong Jesse Powell will they be fired and will they be fired in time to save their companies Dan Eve? Well it really depends if if the company's going to be at risk right if that if they don't it doesn't have a visible like effect that you can trace back to their specific like policies or whatever then then they're probably not going to get fired right because if it's not doing the company actual negative damage then then then then there's no reason to fire them on the flip side if your policies are driving if you if you as a CEO want the best possible product and you're ostracizing certain people and not getting the best developers you know you're having to be trans or having to be whatever like you know that that's that's not going to be positive and therefore you know that is more likely to have you ousted as the as the CEO right because when you're building something and you have a team of people that you need to build that you want the best people building it you're not going to you're not going to want to have a worst product because you don't like someone who who uses I don't know Zimzer for example so I don't know I think if they can if the board or whatever can can can can pin a specific downtrend in the companies either product or all the share price to to the specific policies of CO then they're I think you know there's like a head that'd be ousted but if not then you know there's probably they're probably not going to get ousted right Ben Ark will the political CEO survive yeah ultimately they they they will because you know it's hard to get rid of them and as long as you know Crackin doesn't completely implode I mean I was even on like quite a kind of left-leaning anarchist telegram group but I was like oh no Crackin because I like Crackin Crackin is a great exchange it's a great exchange it's the longest running exchange has been hacked they provide a good service and they've recently implemented lightning so I was kind of like when I saw her whispers of something happening down in Crackin I was like oh God what's happening is the exchange going to be affected and then notice even in you know our sort of lefty leaning telegram group they were like no no no it's just like a social implosion you know within the the people people actually working in Crackin so yeah the service will continue to work very well they'll continue to innovate and Jesse Powell maybe this is a lesson for him some bad press hopefully he you know I think he has pulled back a little bit because he did doctor there was a wasn't like a release like a thing one page release which he released to the people in Crackin and then when they submitted the New York Times then New York Times had the original copy of the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the policy or something when it came to things like pronouns and then they doctor it when they then sense it again so the the New Times to make it a little bit I do think they they slightly edited the manifesto to remove the stuff about the crackinite body security of not having to accept vaccines because they can repel diseases I don't know it was not very scientific okay so so there is there is there is some drawback then you know they're like politically he understands he needs to pull his punches a little bit maybe and hopefully some of the feedback from you know the 3000 people to work at Crackin will make him just focus on building good exchange and keep these conversations to the side with friends and family the answer unfortunately is no the political CEOs will not be replaced much like Elon Musk who's on my mind from the some more news piece Elon went on Joe Rogan smoked pot the company value went down he attacked those other companies with the insider trading type tweets he got fine for that he got removed from the board of the directors but that was again because of the FCC not because of the company Elon's position within the company with the stock is strong just like Zuckerberg and likely just like Brian Armstrong and Jesse Powell so even if these statements hurt recruiting even if they hurt the name of the company even if there's no reason to do this at all I thought their culture problems were about Bitcoin or being Bitcoin maximalist or not maximalist enough or something but it seems there's a lot more going on there just seems completely unnecessary like Ben said I've always liked Crackin as an exchange you can log into and you know buy some Bitcoin trades malt coins whatever you want to do I never thought that it had any political stance at all and the same thing for Coinbase and it's just strange to see these seem like personal political issues Brian Armstrong Jesse Powell being strong libertarians that for unknown reasons or just because they're bored or stressed as Ben said a lot of people are stressed right now they've brought into their company and it just seems completely unnecessary and a distraction unfortunately moving on to issue four Bill Gates says crypto and NFTs are a sham well I do give him credit he said it when the price was up as well but now he's back again to say it while the price is down yes everything is fake everything's a scam he only likes companies that produce real products like farms a farm plant seeds and grows products Bill Gates would invest in your farm to say nothing that this was the man that created all of his value by licensing DOS and Windows to IBM not selling them copies licensing it not making a product not making anything buying DOS from someone else and licensing it to IBM is here to tell us about scams and shams Ben Arck what do you think is Bill Gates right is all of crypto and NFTs and Bitcoin and everything just a greater fool theory almost like DOS licensing crypto photography is a sham like you had here first Bill Gates said it Bill Gates was very favorable to Bitcoin there's some you know you can Google it there's some great extracts of Bill Gates being interviewed about Bitcoin he's interested and excited about it but I guess I mean he's referring to it to crypto and and NFTs he's an old the old dude who's saying you know this new technology I don't understand there's a sham people said the same thing about the internet when he was young dude trying to explain why the internet wasn't a sham what is it and he said the same thing about the internet though remember Bill Gates was not early internet he had it pegged for more of an a.o.l. typed MSN where they could control the content and control the feed the wide open nature of the thing caught him very much by surprise yeah I mean that was yeah obviously yeah yeah he's I mean he's he's pivoted he's he adapted to his credit he pivoted yeah I was gonna say he daps doesn't he like he he changes his opinion like he was completely against things like Linux and then when he was asked for his favorite operating system was he said it was Linux but so yeah but now I mean like I think probably he's luck it's the words for the trees he's looking at the whole ecosystem and saying I mean it is good it's fair to generalize the whole thing as a sham but then actually within that sham you know bit like dot com there's things which really do have value and are very important it's a shame that he's he's lost his further an excitement over Bitcoin which he did have and you can you can find the videos if you look for them it's interesting Ben because I think Bill Gates would have the kind of liberal interest in the Bitcoin that we've talked about here about banking the unbanked helping the developing world but at the same time I'll bet the environmental fud with his major interest in the environment might have knocked him off that course just like Elon seems to be knocked off as well yeah I mean it's it would be hard for him to have a positive stance on Bitcoin because of the the environmental foot stuff but I mean Microsoft they did have the decentralized identity stuff which is very interesting using big leveraging Bitcoin Bitcoin blockchain with Christopher Ireland he's a great guy he's he's pioneering that work in with Microsoft so yeah I think is it by crypto and and FTs is he he's just referring to the whole ecosystem as a sham he's not specifically targeting Bitcoin because I I can't help but imagining that he's I think he's pretty much including Bitcoin in there he says it's the greater full theory and that you're just trying to sell it to a full greater than you yeah okay I mean just you know some old dude showing a new technology it's a shame that he's become not you know Dan he's a Windows ME oh Swift on securities on that this week Dan Eve is 640k all you'll ever need what about Bill Gates hating the future all of a sudden I said that you know he mocks is more than 1.8% of TZ and that they're expensive digital images of monkeys that will improve the world immensely and you know but that let's just art right like that you know NFTs are digital art like you know it's it's it's a very subjective thing right one one one one one one Zim's trash is another Zim's treasure see what I did there with pronouns but yeah the fact is that some people don't believe in art some people think that you know that museums are a waste of space because you know you could just you know take a picture of them and then people look at them online and then you could put houses there instead or something so the fact is that you know it is very subjective and if people want to buy NFTs then they want to buy NFTs they want to buy a piece of art they want to buy a piece of art if you want to buy a print for your wall you know you know some people don't want to print on their wall you know I don't know I just think that I find it difficult even though I'm like not really into NFTs as such that I've found it difficult to criticize them because it's art NFTs are I've seen I've always seen them as art but they're also more than art because they have a bit of utility I'm you know I think that it's quite cool the idea that with the way they've gone with board 810 of NFTs that you know people use them to kind of coax in rich at board 8 NFT owners by giving them special perks on a platform right so it could be a you know if you're if you own and prove you own a board 8 NFT then you get this special sword in our sword swinging game or or you know whatever it is but it's great I'm used to as a class it's like a farm where they have output or like a company where they have products you know just which is a fair point because he specifically like likes products where they can they can mandate things like like hashtag go in the like vaccines where there's no repercussions for if they don't work all there's there's bad things that are associated with them so you know at the same time I don't know I think that you it's just is subjective right you can be someone that likes only functional things and then you can be someone that likes art and you can and something that brings joy to someone that wouldn't bring joy to others you know it's the same saying oh I don't believe that you know theaters are a scam because they don't make me happy I went to a you know that sort of thing it could be anything this that's someone like to someone else doesn't like and yeah but quit on the wider thing with Bitcoin he's been wrong about certain he's been wrong about other things as you said about the simile no one needs more than 64k of RAM and and you know being a bit sour on the internet and arguably the internet has driven a lot of Microsoft products now right they use the internet for example to update Microsoft they use they've got office 365 where they're pushing the subscription model rather than you buying Microsoft office so you know I think that the he'll swing around to the money right once they realize that Microsoft can actually you know make a lot of money from from cryptocurrency I'm sure he'll turn he'll turn around and and want to do it and use it cryptocurrency in some way because he's just susceptible to being a greedy evil millionaire like Jeff Bezos and and and and and Elon Musk and the others the other evil billionaire credoms this is the disease infects them all it's his ability to pivot I think which is probably important like it so with free open source you you lobbied hard against free open source but now Microsoft is one of the biggest contributors to free open source they had to and it's the same with proprietary money you know and free open source money perhaps he thinks that money should be in the control of proprietary control of a small group of people but eventually then he'll pivot and he'll be like no it should be free open source so it's just it's just slow to adapt but he will pivot and trade his ideas giving time now Dan I'd be more concerned about a company that keeps selling you the same piece of software every few years making you pay for upgrades it's almost like they don't make any new products but they charge you in 95 and 98 and 2000 and a couple years later it was always fascinating as well like the way they would have like a good windows and then they would bring it on up so everyone would be super happy with it and then they bring out an updated windows which would be terrible everyone would switch to that it would break and they'd all they'd all then want to buy the new version which fix the problems which the old version have and it was always like bad good bad good bad good bad good how do you keep getting people to buy your products windows vista it seemed like if you had a proper farm there he could just release one version of windows one version of office we could buy it and then we could just get updates and support his farm we wouldn't have to be forced to upgrade to some new operating system where they move everything around make it hard to use oh we've already kind of covered a little but to go into the exit question will Bill Gates change his mind on crypto ever Dan Eve I think he will but he'll find a way of not admitting that he was wrong like for example I remember like a mega 500 right it was draws instead of windows but they had draws like you clip double clips on a drawer and you are pretty sure it's like workbench the amiga workbench and like you double-clicked on the draw and it opened a drawer which was your folder and instead of instead of and instead of a drawer it was like a you know windows had windows and so yeah I think he'll just basically slap a different set different lipstick on the pig and screw it all the same it's like the first episode of black mirror around here Ben arc will Bill Gates change his mind yeah he will and that I I do think that he's referring to kind of the whole shit coin industry stroke NFT industry which is it's very hard to see the the value proposition but obviously there is a huge amount of value in there but if you just look at it you know in super again in superficial way then it it looks very scammy and shami and it is it is very much like told my bag you know like I'm going to make money off you but yeah as that whole industry evolves and then some obvious very good use cases appear out of the NFT world and out of the wider cryptocurrency world and obviously Bitcoin then yeah he will certainly change his opinion obviously with NFTs I've always thought they were collectibles and a collectible has the value that someone will pay you for it a lot of people have trouble understanding this market I think with a lot of those collectibles we don't know the value of them yet but I agree with the panel I think Bill Gates will change his mind you'll find some excuse to do it like there's a new Bitcoin miner that's energy efficient so I'm in now it like Dan says it doesn't have to be logical or connected he just has to be allowed to flip and like Ben said Microsoft's been incredible in their pivot even buying what's the name of the code yeah GitHub they bought GitHub and I haven't heard any complaints I haven't heard let's let's burn all their Thomas be frozen and down GitHub making what are you now time three style their support for sporting live I'm still I'm still working for you is it their open sort their open sort of leave this I agree pass okay so I did but my inner I wrestle I wrestle I would like to interject why your internet's fixing itself I wrestle very much with the carbon footprint of Bitcoin I don't like it and I think a lot of this renewable stuff is you know the hope that it will incentivize renewables yes theoretically cool but I'm not seeing it on the ground and it's more likely to incentivize using dirty fossil fuels but my own opinion is that if you use Bitcoin effectively the amount of legacy stuff it will replace will the the the the the the end of a net positive carbon wise and I opened up this is great book and it's kicked the horn its nest and it's the touch it starts with the white paper and it's just got all of Satoshi's white writings and then someone gave it to me the other day and I opened it up and in the first page which I opened it was Satoshi and someone was saying Bitcoin mining is thermodynamically perverse aka it uses too much energy and then Satoshi said basically about compared it to gold and then he said I think the case will be the same for Bitcoin the utility of the exchanges made possible by Bitcoin will far exceed the cost of the electricity used therefore not having Bitcoin will be in that waste and I think that's very true and that's why I'm here in that the utility value of a Bitcoin transaction if we do all the cool things we can do with it such as opening lightning channels some crazy smart contracting stuff build all that into like each transaction then the net waste it's far more beneficial even if you're mining Bitcoin just purely on coal it'd be far better for the environment than using all the legacy infrastructure and stuff for doing that when that happens I think then that's how we will onboard the people like Bill Gates. Yeah, and also until like the way we get electricity is becoming more sustainable as we move forward so it's only a hump and it's the same with electric vehicles we've said about the lithium batteries at the moment there's the resources they're using ultimately they're still using archaic resources that have an impact on the environment but the better batteries we build that are more sustainable and the more electricity we have this more sustainable is ultimately better than having just fuel you know oil you know carbon based fuel cars like you know it's a bit of a hump but it's the technology along the way gets you to the better goal in future. It's that there's a great and exaibo article on social scalability and it's all that it's all like what something like Bitcoin can provide by you just think about all these countries which don't have complex and archaic like infrastructure sort of infrastructure would need to meet your own sovereign coin for example they'll be able to use something like Bitcoin some poor country without having to build all those age-old institutions such as central banks and everything else which uses huge amounts of carbon just that actual physical footprint that's how we get there on the on the whole carbon issue of Bitcoin but yeah so anyway I just wanted to interject back so it's very interesting that little quote again Satoshi is ultimate wisdom and while we all love him tranj whatever each tran Satoshi while we while while we love her is because honestly like get just look at what he wrote it was just perfect like at all the all the debates and arguments we have in Bitcoin they were addressed back then on Bitcoin talk and Satoshi just had the best answers he really did she sorry well being a space alien we'll do that to you have a certain kind of extra terrestrial knowledge I think I'm back I can't tell but we're moving on to issue five issue five Russia is back again in Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies with the Russian central bank saying that Bitcoin and crypto payments for international settlement is possible perhaps even selling oil in cryptocurrency and Russia's third largest oil company gas prom has partnered with Bitriver to mine Bitcoin using excess resources the kind that we've talked about for years on this show such as hydro electricity where the water never stops running but eventually the batteries are full and maybe we could mine some Bitcoin during the downtime of course Russia's famously banned cryptocurrency for their citizens banning trading banning possession saying it's you know similar to rat poison so on and so forth many have said how cryptocurrency could question the ultimate power of the Russian state as well as as China has said a currency that they can't control but now once again the enemy of my enemy is my friend or the enemy of my enemy is my enemy Dan Eve your thoughts on Russia and crypto currency well I think this this this news you know prior to to probably like February may have gone down quite well but it may it may be bad ultimately for for for Bitcoin because it's going to have that knee jerk reaction of like you know Russian man bad you know but I'm not not I'm not saying the war's good obviously in any way but I'm saying that just because Russia now is is kind of winning you know that it's been one round about using it for international settlements and seeing you know Russia maybe seeing the utility of Bitcoin being used as an international currency that may have a you know a really negative effect from the other side of like all the people are going oh right okay Russia is kind of warming to Bitcoin therefore it must be really bad and we've you know that's whether the I think it could be a net negative it was interesting that the Putin specifically are read in the article is that he challenged the mining ban request and then then also pushed for an amendment of the bill to regulate crypto currencies instead of a full a full ban so yeah ultimately whilst it's you know we would see this news as good because any any central authority seeing the good the actual value in in using Bitcoin as an international currency especially for for settlements I think that's you know that that's a positive thing but it's gonna it's gonna have a negative effect because obviously you know the the the war is bad and and and at the moment Russia's not really in the good books of the rest of the world so I think it's gonna provoke a bit of a knee jerk reaction of like we must ban Bitcoin because Russia likes it I think we have to think back to that classic Chinese symbol the Yin Yang where there's a drop of white in the field of black and there's a drop of black in the field of white and that Bitcoin helps Russia X-Vade sanctions right but Bitcoin also helps you crane accept donations so it's doing both like Ricky Jervais said in his great movie The Adventure of Lying God you know gave your sister cancer but God also cured your sister's cancer it's that Yin Yang it's the doing of the good and the bad and certainly we can't control it we can't say that Russia can't use it we can't say that Ukraine can't use it it's out there for anyone we can't say that El Salvador can't adopt it and make it their bread and butter we don't have to support them if they do as well we can just allow it to happen and see how it turns out and that's where I pretty much am on this Russia thing I think it's great they're doing the renewable mining that's good for everybody that's a wasted energy being used better I don't know about the using it for payments destabilizing the world and the petro dollar but once again it doesn't matter if I know or like it it seems like it's going to happen ever anyway I don't think anybody thought the petro dollar and the monopoly was going to last forever but they sure we're going to try Ben Archer thoughts on cryptocurrency and Russia is that double-edged sword it's so interesting because like when I talk about all the amazing social goods that Bitcoin's doing and banking the unbanked then on the other side it's like yeah but you do empower oligarchs to raise that money out of you know Russia and Germany whatever you know people to it's that double-edged sword I mean it's just you know I mean you can say about any technology that there's there's there's it creates all this like positive use case but then also there's these other things which may not be in favor of and yeah it's just a reality of the of the technology on the whole eco thing I want to share my screen can you can you enable a screen sharing there we go cool oh oh oh that is a shame it doesn't like I can actually share my screen for some reason whiteboard advanced or screen enhance enhance computer enhance let me try is what's what what can you do you see anything oh here we go it says Ben Archer started screen sharing but I can't say it's beyond that it's okay it's it should say Ben Archer started starting sharing while I can't share anyway I have a repo because it was really frustrating me all these people talking about Bitcoin being used with renewables and I know there are theoretically things being worked on such as the blockchain Tesla relationship with mining but there's just nothing like in the field currently so I posted it to have like some environmentalist groups interested in Bitcoin so posted in there and then I also posted it on Twitter and that's the thing I'm trying to share but if anyone's interested it's on my GitHub ARC BTC and it's awesome eco Bitcoin and I'm just trying to collect links to examples of Bitcoin mining and centricising renewable energy production things like utilizing mining waste and then all most of like the proposals most of the most of the things you hear about anything okay Bitcoin's been used for renewables I've had to just put into speculative theoretical proposed and again because it's like yeah okay you can mine Bitcoin on renewable energy which isn't being utilized but then it's that double-edged sword like actually probably makes more sense just to mine it on some cheap coal or oil or whatever else so if anyone has any decent examples actual real world examples of Bitcoin being used with renewables then please post it in a awesome eco Bitcoin you can probably just google actually probably just come up awesome eco Bitcoin the repo I was going to try and share that now but of course Russia interested in Bitcoin because yeah you can evade sanctions and then you can erode some of that power by the petri dollar and that's ultimately a good thing for everyone else and everyone in the world and it's interesting that Russia and all the ones sort of pioneering that but it will also mean that you know they'll be hardest to sanction but that's what buying buying buying buying buying and set about there about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies at large was they'll have to read your ass how they sanction other governments because now there's these cryptocurrencies which exist which aid the ability to work around sanctions so it's just a move from Russia I suppose to build that infrastructure so they can they can do that effectively it's so hard to make an omelet without breaking a few eggs we're running out of time Dan Eve do you have a prediction or a story of the week go ahead I have a story of the week Bitcoin is on sale right now it is on sale but you may not buy now because it may even go lower and be even more on sale and it could go 50% lower to be more on sale to 10k if whilst the chicken looking and the sky is falling it is still going on but you could do I think it's looking it's pretty pretty hardcore times out there right but you know just if you can hodl do some dollar cost averaging this isn't investment advice if it was investment advice I tell you to buy dogecoin because that's the hot thing right last year but don't buy dogecoin and if you ever if you do buy into Bitcoin obviously don't buy more than you can afford to lose just just and if you do just buy just buy a little bit just hodl and just and just hold it and just just that you have some sense it is amazing that nothing's changed about Bitcoin the product the network still works that it's being mined it's being secured yet the price has collapsed it's always an interesting time to be in and yes just like we were talking about earlier they don't want to be told about Bitcoin because the price is so low yet as we know from history that's often the best time to buy it it's often the best time to buy when it's so low Ben Archer you ready with a prediction or a story of the week go ahead um not really but there was a story down Twitter which was pretty cool which is a bit for next and now implementing I like your alp, well I like your alpeg I like alen you're all a lot and I think it's it's pretty powerful for and this is this is a term which I've been trying to push which is scrub services which is safe you have like some sort of service on internet or some sort of service where your custodial for just a moment so you know you have this clear in that service and then payments happen to this service and if lots of these wallets just use alen your alpeg it means that you can just push those payments because it's basically you can use it's like a static payment link I suppose you do the same with offers when that eventually happens but it just means if you have like a clear net service that you could put in your own alen your alpeg link from your you know bit for next account your coin corner account your wallet's touch account and any payments which come into that service will just get rooted to wherever you know which wherever you made that alen your alpeg and then you put it in the service I think it's really interesting kind of it will help like the lightning Bitcoin infrastructure grow out quicker because people won't have to tackle the regulatory mode so much because they're they're just basically like rooting a payment by using the alen your alpeg it's pretty cool so so yeah so so I could grasp to bit for next for implementing alen your al and also the alen your almafia for like helping push the alen your al because it's very important technology very nice bravo Ben and bravo to everyone who works on alen your al and alen pay and all the other services that Ben's working on it's great to see some adoption and shout out to bit for next very good and may I add the first example of alen your al pay was on workripped on network if you go way back 2018 late 2018 George Fissaro is on here Hacked a clear wallet to get it to do basically what is an alen your alpeg and that was a first example recorded is on WCN so it's pretty cool very cool making history on WCN and just like to say the mad tour six is continuing I've been in putting out some pictures on twitter but less pictures than before Martins been complaining I'm over in Amsterdam right now you can see the swan behind me and it was pretty fun this just happened to be my Airbnb and then today I went to the Reichs Museum and what did I see but the swan apparently a very very famous painting in addition to being some fun wallpaper at my Airbnb so it's great to be traveling again it's great to be out there the museums it was a little hot today in Amsterdam I got to tell you it's not usually a warm place but I'm thinking about breaking out the shorts even though no one in europe wears shorts isn't this the first time in history Tom that you've been on a mad tour and the price of Bitcoin is declined we were trying we were trying to make it go up and it's not over yet but yes it is looking pretty bad for the mad tour effect we had a little bump to maybe 31 but that's not saving anybody's bank in bacon anymore but hopefully it'll turn out well the mad tour continues and hopefully the price will rebound as well how long is the match going on for till the next one at least a couple more weeks not till the next avenue but maybe we'll go on some other mad tours soon enough so thanks to everybody for watching be sure to subscribe down below click the thumbs up button go subscribe to the wcn clips and give them some shares thanks to our guests and thanks to everybody for watching and being on the show until next time bye bye