The Bitcoin Group, the American original. For over the last ten seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's, the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Josh Seagala from thestandard.io. Eddie Hohen-Avers. Dan Eve, the crypto raptor. God save our gracious bits. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the world crypto network, moving on to issue one. Issue one, report reveals game changing White House crypto plans that could have a serious Bitcoin and Ethereum price impact. The Biden administration is working on a set of policy, represent policy recommendations, targeting Bitcoin and crypto's sky high energy consumption and carbon footprint. Yes, they're worried about proof of work because it uses just the same amount of energy as PlayStation, sleeping and Christmas lights. And Bitcoin is in the crosshairs. Ethereum, they think, will be fine because it's switching to proof of stake, which makes everyone feel great. They want Bitcoin to do the same. They want control over the protocol because it's using too much power. Josh Seagala, your thoughts on the Biden administration's sudden interest in the power of Bitcoin. It's a really interesting attack vector actually from the state to pick on the environmental side. It's fascinating because I've seen personally in my own personal life, the uptrend in got to do something about the environmental impact of Bitcoin. And you're like, yeah, I mean, we cover this pretty much every week on the Bitcoin group. But let's go over it again. It is a really, really interesting attack vector. Let's have a look what happens. I definitely don't think that Bitcoin is going to go with proof of work. But the funny thing is the lightning network doesn't have mining in it at all. And what a lot of these articles tend to do is take the transactions and divide it by the amount of electricity it uses and goes, oh, it's like a year's worth of household electricity for one transaction or whatever. That's a weird calculation, first of all. But the other thing that makes me think about is that some of these journalists at major outlets must be thinking, I've got a fair bit of power here. I'm like, if I put out the just the right headline and short Bitcoin, I might be able to because look at the bright, look at the headline on that. It's so tweaked to really sort of get people to sell. But I think that was the actual Mr. Billy Bamberer. I think might have had a little short going and decided to launch with this headline. Let's see. Well, remember that the article writers don't really get to choose the headlines anymore. As they discuss during the Amber herd trial, she wrote that op-ed, but I think the Washington Post wrote the headline. I know myself, even when I used to write for the college newspaper, I'd submit the article with what I thought was a great headline only to often find it replaced as the news people more than the person that wrote the article. But Josh is right. We do talk about this almost every week on the Bitcoin group. We talk about how Christmas lights use more energy. We talk about how play stations that are sleeping use more energy. And more importantly, we talk about how easy it is in the media's mind to calculate the amount of energy that Bitcoin uses by multiplying by the number of transactions. If you really look at it, the visa and existing banking system probably adds more carbon to the atmosphere, armored trucks, buildings full of accountants, air conditioners running all the time, server rooms, uncounted resources. These sources there that are really difficult to calculate. And if you actually do calculate them, maybe Bitcoin is an improvement. And again, they also see proof of work as a waste of energy when we all know it actually secures the network, unlike proof of stake, which no one has ever successfully built a proof of stake system that works. And if you look at it logically, proof of stake rewards those with the largest stake. It creates a centralized system of 10 or so stakers at the top who keep making more and more money from the project and keep buying more stake, thus cementing their position, creating a new oligarchy, the exact opposite of what Bitcoin and crypto are supposed to create. So the Ethereum experiment is in trouble on both sides there. But I do like the way that the press has adopted it as like Bitcoin is unwilling to change to environmentally friendly, also technically impossible never been done proof of stake. It's just so easy. It's just so easy to give up proof of work, which actually secures the network, providing a physical good, the Bitcoin network secured is a product. Yeah, and they'll go from one, they'll go, they'll say like on one hand, nothing's backing Bitcoin. And then they'll go, but you have to get rid of all this really hardcore energy usage. And you're like, so hang on, nothing's backing it, but we've got to get rid of the thing that's backing it. Which one is it? Which one is it? Nothing's backing it, but proof of work. Dan, eave your thoughts on the new attack on Bitcoin. It's bad for the environment. It's definitely like the in things to be doing the environment sort of bad. I think you may a good point Josh about the attempts to move markets. Right? In the early days, it was probably a lot easier to do like from the smaller sort of, smaller sort of what you call it, publications, but now you know, Forbes and stuff could definitely probably try it. You know, it wasn't a few years ago when Bloomberg got caught basically incentivizing people to write articles and headlines that shift that make markets move, right? You know, even if they shouldn't do. And as Tom said about the underlying network, the usage of the traditional banking system, we've got, you know, it's mastercard, Amics, Visa, Swift, all the data centers, the banking branches, the armoured cars, the physical money and circulation. Like, I think if you were to do true calculations, that it would really absolutely poo on just, you know, running, running Bitcoin, the event, the energy that costs the run, especially when you factor in it's just said that the enlightening network. But the other attack vector is obviously, you know, or they're saying it's, if it's going to be a part of our financial system in a meaningful way, that it's, it needs to be developed responsibly. So responsibly like HSBC, laundering hundreds of millions for cartels or BMP parabas, filing false business records and conspiracy to evade economic sanctions or credit Swiss groups for tax evasion, anti-money laundering issues, UBS and rabbi bank for manipulating into bank lending rates, including liable and JPM, more into involvement in the London whale bets and other responsible things that the traditional banking industry does obviously do. And that I think the other thing is that they said like we've seen reports about noise, local pollution and older fossil generators being restarted in communities. Now, I've got nothing against, for example, electric cars, right? But if you're going to shift a load of cars over to electric, you're going to need more electric for it, right? Because the electric cars need to run on electric. So maybe these fossil fuel, you know, power plants are being powered back up because there's other things that you spit coin because newsflash, it's not just Bitcoin that requires energy. Other things are the developments and other technologies require energy. So, you know, it's just, it's an easy thing to pick on because it's a very easy thing to calculate. No one kind of looks at the collateral and net or the net effect of powering all these new electric cars that need this electricity or even stuff like a toaster that needs to use more power because it's now got Wi-Fi integrated. These are all these things that require more electricity, but Bitcoin is the easy one. Actually, I have a little, I don't know what the source of this is, but I have a graphic. I think it's from the Grace Girl report, but for instance, you have the banking system all up, someone actually did the hard work and recognize that they have, in terms of CO2 produced, which is in tons, 390 million tons. That's a lot of carbon. CO2 is produced 390 million tons from the banking system. And Bitcoin mining is only 0.6 million tons. So that's such an extraordinary massive amount. Gold mining is 54 million tons. Gold recycling. Gold mining as well. What's that? You have a water that's required for refining gold and stuff. Huge. Huge. This is the interesting thing on emissions trend. Under paper currency minting, you've got 6.7 million tons of carbon dioxide produced. And again, 390 million for the banking system and 0.6 million for Bitcoin. And the interesting thing is the other two paper currency and minting as well as the banking system both have increasing emissions trend. Whereas Bitcoin mining has a decreasing emissions trend. And the other thing that's never really talked about is the fact that Bitcoin mining is one of the few industries, very few industries that is actually actively putting vast amounts of money into finding new energy sources that are cheaper. And the only way you can get cheaper new energy sources is to find renewable ones. Because the only cheap energy you get from dirty power like coal or gas are from subsidized states which are usually communist or semi-communist or… I don't call it that. Or it's just what it is. They have a lot of gas and they just basically subsidize it to hell. And then they realize, oh my god, all these people are becoming rich. So they ban the act just like they did in China, just like they did in Venezuela. And so Bitcoin mining is one of the few industries that actually goes and finds better sources of energy. You can't say that about Sony. Sony might have a greenhouse road map of becoming carbon neutral by whatever it is. But they don't actively put money into finding new sources of energy. And this is really where Bitcoin mining is just wonderful. Well, they obviously don't. Not about other industries. They use electricity as just part of the mix of the manufacturing process. It's not kind of the bread and butter. And with Bitcoin, the electric, obviously there's the mining equipment. But the electricity is one of the biggest expenses for them. If you can get the cheapest electricity, which is again, as research finds near excess power, then it's going to gravitate towards more renewable cheaper sources. So yeah, it makes sense that it's going to fund innovation more than many other industries that just use electricity because electricity is the bread and butter is the energy and they is required for proof of work. Plus, again, goes back to the security. I think there is a throwaway statement right at the end where it says it secures the network. It's the equivalent of going right. Well, it uses carbon to make guns requires carbon. So we are going to replace bank security guards' guns with baguettes. What about the security? Don't forget about that. Carbon emissions, creating the guns and handcuffs. So we're going to use baguettes and spaghetti. Well, I also saw another interesting piece recently talking about Google and their server farms and how much water it takes to cool the server farms and that Google considers it a proprietary secret how much water they use. They won't even tell us how much they use because their competitors could find that they use more or less. So there's a lot of issues there that we don't even know about the environmental impact of some of these companies. As you guys are saying earlier, there are so many banks, there are so many credit card companies. It seems like they're all performing the same function. Maybe we could narrow those down and save some power there. Maybe we don't need to run five different visa, AMX, master card, discover card, all those nonsense. It seems like unnecessary, right? Maybe that's a place to start. And as Dan was saying, I love all the bank stories, especially the one where they made the night deposit slot, the same size as the briefcases they were getting from the cartels. If you can't trust these bankers, who can we trust? And we need to agree in the whole energy line so that when plugging in electric cars, we're not using dirty, cold, generated energy to power our clean electric cars. Sadly, we're probably going to have to go back to nuclear. And renewables are just not there yet. And wind and solar are intermittent energies. We need a backbone. It's probably going to be nuclear. It would probably be better off using this money in time, building or turning back on old nuclear plants, rather than bothering with another silly report on cryptocurrency. But let's move to the exit question. We've heard the report. It's just a draft right now. Will the Biden administration go through with the plan to attack Bitcoin for its energy uses? Josh Shagalla. Probably. Dan Eve. Yeah, green is fashionable. I think they'll push for it. I think it's an attack vector. It's an attack vector. And it was used to basically secure patents when it came to fluorogasives back in the 80s because the ozone layer was the big thing when the patent was running out for LG and the fridges because Taiwan was going to start making all these generic. And then they replaced, they basically forced a global hysteria on flora carbons. And yeah, and then I think it was LG, look at the details here, but they then got a new patent for a new gas and then said that the other one has to be banned, even though they were doing that for decades because of this holding the ozone layer. Unfortunately, I agree with the panel. I think they will go through with it. They see it as low hanging fruit and easy way to attack Bitcoin. And as we'll discuss later on the show, it's already pretty much happening again in New York. Moving on to issue two issue two Bitcoin price rallies as JP Morgan's strategist predict 25% gains. It's so funny to see the way the world changes years ago. JP Morgan was the ones calling us rat poisons saying either the worst thing in the world and that Bitcoin was horrible and there's no way you should have it in your portfolio. Of course, his daughter was buying the whole time. Now JP Morgan's back and their announcements are leading to price rises at least temporarily or could be the mad tour in Bitcoin. Dan, Eve, what about this JP Morgan report? Now the banks are with us. It's a smooth sailing from here on out. Well, as much as we do hate the banks for all their nefarious activities that led to the global crashes in 2017, 2008, all the crazy stuff, it's always good having a bit of a stamp of approval from JP Morgan. I don't know how it's a bit like it's 30k but 24 hours later it's back under and it goes over again a little bit. It's back under. It's like, they're quite repetitive these kind of headlines aren't they? But the cool thing is that JP Morgan in 2017, which we dive in, has no intrinsic value and then he also again said it last year. Now JP Morgan themselves, they're official strategists saying on behalf of the company they're shilling a 38k Bitcoin as a fair market value. So they obviously a bunch of analysts agree that it's actually got some intrinsic value and probably via proof of work, not proof of mistake, of course. So they're saying that there's a reasonable upside from here. But they did use capitulation, which I always think back to capitulation, I had heard of the word when I started reading up on and I saw that the Wall Street cheat sheet. And if capitulation we are on that right stage now, it means that we still got anger and depression to go and a few little dips, which it is 2022, it's a halfway to the harvining. So probably a bit more down tail, I think, until disbelief kicks in and then some hope. And then we're back on the Wall run, back on the harvining ball run. Quite from the articles that we had us replace real estate with digital assets as our preferred alternative asset class along with hedge funds. Now that is pretty big, right? That's like the biggest statement of the whole thing is that it's not all about real estate anymore, which was once seen as the scarce thing, right? Because you kind of can make more land as China made an airport on the scene. But the fact is that, yeah, it's now seen if it's not as a currency, it's seen as a scarce a scarce thing, right? And it's seen as real estate and replacing the place of real estate in these hedge funds. So I think overall it's actually quite an interesting take. They're pumping or the price will also be pumping, but they think the price has got 25% upside and that it's replacing big things that have been traditional, you know, solid buys. And maybe that's just because of the fact that the property bubble seems like it's in a big bubble again, right? It seems like we're at the place. I saw a thing like a meme the other day, which was like, you know, like the meme of the guy poking, poking something like poking a rock saying, come on. And it was like millennials saying like, come on, housing market, you know, put it. Can you please drop? Can you please dump? But it does seem like that. It seems like real estate prousing is pretty hardcore at the moment. So yeah, I think Bitcoin would be a sensible long term holdover of real estate. Well, you know what they say, only God and China can make land. And it's great to have the banks on our side. Like, you know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend or maybe the enemy of my enemy is my enemy. Josh Shagalla, what do you think about JP Morgan? Suddenly big Bitcoin fans. Yeah, it's so disingenuous at always was that JP Morgan would come out and say they would fire anybody that traded it within the company that they like. And you know, you know, did those people get their jobs back? We never get a day to any of these stories like people that lost their accounts, that people that got their eBay accounts closed, PayPal kicked everyone off, all this stuff. When they come around and they let them back in, it's just like the marijuana legalization. They're like, did we forget to leave those people in jail? Oh no, we left those people in jail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and that's exactly what's happening here. So it's, yeah, I think JP Morgan really just needs to just go away. This better place is to put your money folks. Well, and can you imagine if those were your trusted financial advisors and they didn't tell you about Bitcoin when it was $100 and we were losing our heads, they waited till it was like 30,000 or 50,000 and then they told you about it. Why would you trust them as financial advisors? Why would you think they knew anything? But this whole time they've not been exposing you to this obvious opportunity that so many technical people, libertarian people, cypherpone people, all these people saw and thought, wow, that's really great. And then they showed it to their banker buddies who are supposed to be professionals going down the line, like, is this good, is this bad, objective professionals? And the objective professionals are like, that's rat poison. Yeah, that's right. Instead of maybe put 0.01% of your portfolio in this, you know, just some, some tiny amount nut, it's rat poison. You don't touch it with a 10 foot pole. It's amazing what they could have made, what they could have had. Exit question, will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week? And we do have the magical Bitcoin predictor ball travel edition with us. So Josh Shagalla higher or lower? Yeah, I think it will be higher next week. I think J.B. Morgan might be under something following the banks. Dan Eve higher or low? I'm staying on my pessimistic run. So I think it's going to be lower even though last week I was wrong and it's now higher, but I still think it's going to be a little teeny bit lower. All right, very small, very small Bitcoin ball, very hard to read. Will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week? So hard to read. No, the ball says no. Dan. There you go. Dan's on it. Dan's on it. The pessimistic ball has spoken. Let's see here. Check out WCN clips on YouTube at WCN Clips. We've got 108 subscribers. Thanks to you guys. Thanks to the eight or so who subscribed. Let's keep sharing these videos, putting the likes on them, sharing them to your friends. They're like short versions of this show that are about the topics. So check out WCN clips. We've even fixed the link in the description. It works now. So there's no excuses at all. You guys all need to subscribe to WCN Clips and share them with your friends. Thanks to WCN Clips. Issue three, Winkelvoss twins Gemini, sued by the CFTC over Bitcoin futures. Everyone wants Bitcoin futures, but apparently not the commodities future trading commission. Allegedly, the Gemini Trust, led by the Winkelvoss, has misled the derivatives regulator in a bid to launch the first US regulated Bitcoin futures concept. Gemini is accused of making false and misleading statements about how it would prevent manipulation in Bitcoin prices and serve as a reference for the derivatives based on cryptocurrency. I thought the best part here said something like, everyone will act as adults. Was there a assumption for the marketplace and that people would not trade with themselves because they would not trade with themselves? Dan, Eve, what do you think about Gemini and this very interesting development? Of course, everything is allegedly here. It is a little... I'm confused what exactly they did. They paid loan funds to market makers to not to not wash trade against the other traders which gave them less protection. I don't know. It seems... It sounds like the CFTC are encouraging the straight. It seems like the straight... Gemini protected people will be. Allegedly, Gemini loaned them the funds and assumed that they would not wash trade. It doesn't sound like they put... They didn't put controls in that stopped them from wash trade and they just assumed that everyone would act like adults. And I don't know what happened but it doesn't seem like they acted like adults. It seemed like they acted like cryptocurrency people who could wash trade. Right. Because I got the impression it was like the people, the retail investors, the ones that they're saying, they're grown-ups, they can figure it out. But isn't it insane like a world where you can't just say that? We're all adults. Some people... If they're done with enough to do crazy things and wash and lose all their money, they're done with enough to do it. You could be... You could burn all your money on, like gambling is one thing, for example. But you can get hooked up obsessed with something and then burn all your money becoming like, I don't know, one direction found or something. Do we need protections against spending too much money on one direction? I don't know. It's all a bit crazy to me. I can understand, you know, you're protecting people from actual scams and actual fraud and stuff. But sometimes I think it goes a bit too far. But the general... They're... they're... they're... they... they haven't reapplied for us for... for an ETF, have they? They got slapped down in 2018 or something, which was just after the magical run in 2017, after the CBO and CMOE, like went for... You know, for... We've got their ETFs on the go. But one thing that I do think is that the more... The Wicker White Twins were definitely right about Bitcoin. So, you know, you can definitely believe that they had like a significant role in the building of Facebook and other... You know, the more kind of successful Bitcoin comes, it becomes. The more I kind of believe they... they probably know they did... Obviously, have quite a hand behind it. They know what they're doing because they're into Bitcoin and... goodness, imagine if Zuckerberg with all his riches, you know, put more money and time and effort into Bitcoin. I mean, I know that he doesn't even have a dog called like... I don't know, NFT or something crazy like that at the moment. But, yeah, I'm surprised, you know, that... The Zuckerberg didn't get more into Bitcoin because he seems like... He seems like the sort of person that would be quite intimate. Maybe from a political standpoint, he's just afraid that being into Bitcoin will get lawmakers after him, even more for Facebook. And, you know, Facebook's already under scrutiny quite a lot from both sides of the political spectrum for doing or not doing censorship in whatever. So, yeah, I think... I'm not sure how it's going to go. The CFTC isn't always... It doesn't always win their cases, as the article says. So, you know, the Winklevide twins seem pretty adamant that they've got enough evidence to prove that they put enough, you know, checkpoints up and... enough measures and controls in place to prevent such issues. So, yeah, the interesting is how that's... to see how that swings. It was interesting to see how Zuckerberg went with making his own coin rather than getting into Bitcoin. It's interesting. Maybe they'll make an updated version of the social network movie where the Winklevide twins come out on top because they bought Bitcoin and Zuckerberg and his empire collapsed because he didn't. Also, when you're trusting market makers and you've got random people from the internet doing, I mean, you know, you got to trust Freddie 99 and Goldbug 22. They're going to be adults and they're not going to wash trade even though it's in their own interest and they stand to make a lot of money. They're going to be adults about this. They're not going to wash. Yeah, but hang on. There's a lot of ins and outs. Market makers have to rebalance fairly often. They need to sometimes move large volumes back to another position. They need to hedge positions. There's a very complex ins and outs. You know, you can't just call it wash trading. And I think this is a fundamental floor in why America's pretty much on the downward spiral because regulators are basically capturing what the banks want and things like simple things like in like having instruments that the institutions can jump into Bitcoin like an ETF. Just isn't that difficult. We've done it here in Europe. We've done it in Australia. What's the big deal? It's obviously a protectionist racket. And these regulators are very tight in the pockets of the old school banking networks. And I really see it as a major threat once people can get into it. I mean, look, if you can on DeFi, I mean, Bitcoin's just one side of Ethereum and I have a large and all these smart contract places where there's decentralized finance stuff's happening. The American system's so crappy now in terms of its interest payable. And Europe is even worse with negative interest rates. Why wouldn't you put your money that's sitting in a bank account where you're paying negative interest rates in Germany and Europe? Why wouldn't you put that into DeFi? Why, you know, I think this is what they're scared of is having the public aware of these sorts of things. And that's why they just want to crush as much of as they can through the regulator. Shout out to everybody in the chat. We've got about 20 people watching, but only nine likes. So go ahead and reach down there. Push that like button really helps out the show. Even if you're watching later on, you can still push the like button. Doesn't cost anything. It's really good to do. Exit question. Do you think that Gemini will get a slap on the wrist or will they shut them down? Than Eve. I don't think they'll get shut shut down. I think the the Wig of I too intertwined with, you know, they were the first to get like a Gemini was the one of the first to get the bit license, right? The New York bit license. So I think that they've done enough to try and be on the right side of regulation. It's not like I think I've been gone past the days of like, you know, picking Charlie Schremming and trying to make an example of, you know, that sort of thing going on. So I think that yeah, they're going to be like, sort of thing going on. So I think that yeah, there's going to be a bit more positivity and it would just be like slapped with a fine if there is unless something, you know, gross negligence comes out or, you know, actual, you know, gross miscellaneous. I love it. It's a bit of a difference. Possibly. Actual malice. Actual malice, yeah, comes out. Then I think it's, you know, they kind of they're not the sort of guys that try and like, you know, that would try and be too crazy, right? They want to run a legit to a business. And I think all eyes are on them, especially after the whole Facebook thing. So Matching haircuts, matching ties, matching orange jumpsuits, Josh Shagala, will they shut them down or get a slap on the wrist? Matching orders. I think they'll get a slap on the wrist. Yeah. And but it's just this constant sort of threat. So I don't know how much they I don't know. Interesting. I'll be watching. Aw, twins really do have more fun. You know, you double your pleasure, you double your fun. Moving on to issue four. Former OpenC product manager, arrested and charged in a legit NFT insider trading scheme. Watch out, Web 3 entrepreneurs. The feds are cracking down on insider trading. Former OpenC product manager, Nate Chastain, I think I follow him on Twitter, was arrested by the FBI early Wednesday morning in New York City and charged with wire fraud and money laundering in connection with an elaborate NFT insider trading scheme. The Department of Justice claims that Chastain used in his advanced confidential knowledge about which NFTs would be featured on OpenC's platform to secretly buy them and sell them for up to five times the original value. Many are wondering where these NFT laws have been written and if they exist at all. Josh Shagalla, NFT insider trading, is this a big deal? Is this even illegal? I don't actually think it is. I mean, I think this is just being plucked out of nowhere. There's no these these these are all new markets. I don't think there is such thing as insider trading on these markets, but I don't believe there is. That's not to say that it was immoral. I think generally, look, one of the things that people need to know if they're getting into the space is that if you're listening to an influencer in the space and they're telling you to buy something, you're pretty much certain. You have to take it as a given that they've loaded up on their bags and by the time the video comes out, it's already up. With this guy, I think I remember reading a bit more of an in-depth article about the situation that in certain aspects of OpenC were making favorable deals with certain projects to have them on the front page and then pre-buying them and then selling them this sort of thing. Anything that's in a prominent position on a page is paid to be there. There's people making money on it. And this is what this market understands, but the problem is new people come in. They get wrecked because they don't understand it yet. But they've just been shielded for too long about what these scams look like. And I've said that before on this show as well is that people need to touch the flame sometimes to see how hot something is and start to understand what a scam looks like, where scams lie and what not to do. So, for instance, if I go to OpenC and on the very front page there's a big ad about some new NFT, there's no way I'm buying it because I know that it's just basically bought up in the back end. There's a few people making a hell of a lot of money on the masses. That's just it. Do I think you should be rested? No. Do I think they should write articles about it and educate people because yes. It's going to keep on going. It's going to keep on happening. Jurisdictional arrests are useless because it's a global phenomenon. You have to educate the market. It's a global market. Educate your people about what these scams look like. And even if it's not a scam, it's a way of taking advantage of people. And so, education, education like this show, like any podcast that talks about these sorts of things is the way to go. I agree, Josh. It's not moral. It's not the right thing to do. But I don't know if it's technically illegal. I'm also interested that the article says that they only made five times the value. That seems very small. It seems like they could make a lot more than that if they were really dedicated to it. And again, this kind of information, what's going to be on the OpenC homepage, seems like the entire OpenC organization is now suspect. And perhaps an insider trading house. If they want to promote something next month, how many people know about it? How many marketing guys know about it? They could all buy in. It seems like a commonplace thing for any company. It's just in the old days, the stock market. It's an indice and they were being shared on many websites. OpenC is kind of one of the major places for NFTs. So whatever they put on the homepage, it's going to sell out. But like Josh said, unfortunately, it's going to sell out to people that are probably going to get pumped and dumped, probably going to get dumped on. Remember that old saying, if you look around the poker table and you can't spot the mark after an hour, the mark is you. And I think a lot of these people, unfortunately, were very easy marks. Dan, any of your thoughts on the OpenC NFT insider trading? Well, it's, I mean, it seems like what the Fed is cracking down on inside of trading. And that, you know, NFTs might be new, but this type of criminal scheme isn't. Right? You know, it's like one of the oldest tricks in the book. Like, you know, in normal politics, they called it lobbying, right? Insider trading in terms of policy and stuff like that. But that's just kind of okay to get away with. And I think what's scary is that although this is kind of contradictory, like as I said about the Charlie Shren making an example of, you know, the way they faced the hammer was swiftly down the hard on him. For, for, for, you know, seeing like, mean, or crimes compared to all those stuff that happened in the, you know, the crash of 2017, 2008 that no one went down for that, right? Isn't like not a single head rolled. Isn't it like even the end run thing like no one wants to jail for any of the end run, like the crazy happiness that happened with end run, you know, that's the good thing is on Netflix, the documentary, the smartest guys in the room. It's pretty interesting to watch it sometime. Yeah, like it's just, it's just savage that they're trying to crack down on crypto of all things. And when you think about it, the scale as well, this person said that they said they made, he made off with $67,000 like, oh my god, he must have been freaking terrible inside trading to work at open, how the hell could you work at open sea? And like, and like no, only on the front page. And you only come up with six sets, 67K. Yeah, it was like really easily traced as well. Like funnels, he did, he had loads of it, loads of anonymous wallets. But then he basically, after he sold it, he just sent the fun straight back to his like trading wallet that was linked to his salary or something. Now, so some really dumb moves to be making. But really, you know, you're going to be cracking down and making an example of someone who made off with 67K. There's this is there's millions going missing by the day in like banking holes, like, and they're going after 67K. I think it's I think that's pretty insane to be honest. There's far more things that they could be, you know, cracking fed with the feds could be cracking down on in terms of insider trading. As we've already, you know, as I mentioned about the, you know, the politicians, what about what about cracking down on politicians for which there's always stories of this, but tax evasion and embezzlement of like funds, you know, all the section assault stuff, there's always one cracking down on some of that instead of cracking down on dude that made off with 67K. It seems a bit, bit silly, I think, in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, I think I think a lot of this is again what we've mentioned before with the regulator. This is this could also be a little bit of a little bit of a sort of hey, hey, we're watching you to OpenC because there's a lot more going on in OpenC than just that. The general use for NFTs, or just actually modern art is actually money laundering. Like that's what you do with modern art. That's why art goes up in price like crazy. At least that's a use case. That's a massive use case. It's a massive use case. And so I think the authorities are like saying, hey, you know, we're watching it. It's an example case. Well, it didn't, it's already that OpenC were the ones that actually chopped him in. So like it sounds like it wasn't like the feds, you know, just with their magnifying glass out. I'm being like more like, you know, having a chattel coffee with chain alice niche over nefarious things on chain. Like it was it was that OpenC actually like, identical someone noticed that the regular activity they spoke to, they raised it with OpenC and OpenC, you know, put their hands up, did internal investigation, and then like, you know, come get them boys to the feds. So it does sound like it was, yeah, all the feds are saying that crack, they're cracking down, but it was OpenC that kind of, which kind of, you know, fed use to them, you know, been snitches, but fed use for trying to run a good operation and saying, right, you know, we don't want people taking advantage of our users. So, you know, they were proactive in trying to sniff out the NFT weasel. Oh, interesting. Well, I for one, I'm shocked, shocked to find that there's gambling in this establishment. And surely he must have been the only person at OpenC taking advantage of this early information. Maybe the most obvious and pathetic as Dan said allegedly, sending the money to his own account after hardly washing it, but definitely the easiest to find the most obvious. And a friend of mine works at the Beanie Baby Factory and he's got the inside scoop of what they're going to come out with next month. So watch out for that. Give me that too. And also as Dan was saying with insider trading, this kind of a strange law in the United States, where Congress is allowed to legally inside trade. Now, this is both parties before everyone gets all Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell or whatever, both parties are insider trading. And it's as bad as if we're going to make a new traffic light and then they go invest in the traffic light company, that during the COVID crisis, there are many people in Congress. We have their names. We know their trades. It's all public who started buying pharmaceutical companies. They started buying companies that make masks. They use their insider knowledge from Congress to profit. And this is technically legal right now. Again, distasteful, immoral, disgusting, whatever you want to do, technically legal and both parties are doing it. So I hope they shut that down. And instead, they're going after this guy for the 67 miles, the NFT. We're going to get them. And that goes into the exit question, will Nate serve jail time or will he give them back a whole bunch of money and give a lot more money to lawyers fees? Will the whole system just make money off of this fantastic event? Hit the nail on the head. Dan Eve? I think he'd be, I think I think he may get a bit of a slap on the wrist, maybe find. But I think it would be a perfect opportunity to do like an insider trading NFT series. Paul, let's go. Drop everything. And if you do want Nate, drop me a free NFT, please. Let me know what it's going to be on the front page. No, it's just about the money, LaBalsky. They just want the money. You don't go out looking for work just like that. Do you? On a Tuesday? What day is this? Moving on to issue five bonus issue, because it just happened today. Issue five, New York again just passed a bill cracking down on Bitcoin mining. Here's everything that's in it. Yes, they say they have certain Bitcoin mining operations that run on carbon-based power sources, the same carbon-based power that runs your play stations and your Christmas lights and your air conditioner when you leave it on and you leave the doors open when you leave your lights on. That same carbon is running Bitcoin mines. The governor is likely to sign it and it will ban all Bitcoin mining that's not using renewable power for the next two years in the state of New York, home of the bit license. Once again, New York previously the financial capital of the world. Now the early warning, crazy regulation capital, Josh Sincala, what do you think about New York sticking their foot in their mouth again? I want to know who the heck's mining in New York anyway. It's not like there are powerhouse of energy. I can understand Texas or something. Maybe in the winter, maybe he's the houses. I don't know. I just don't think there's major mining operations there. There are in other countries. They're not even America. It's an American much. I do think it's interesting that this state that's supposed to lead the world on finance issues keeps going backwards with these questionable early laws. Everyone knows when you have a new industry, you don't drown it in regulation. You first think maybe we could get some jobs for our state. Maybe we could get some tax money. Maybe we could build some factories and some plants and have some universities teaching about cryptocurrency instead. Time and time again, New York just comes in early and tries to cut off the new market. It's almost like they're protecting the existing players from new competition. It almost seems like anti-competitive behavior. Again, completely backwards. They didn't learn anything from the bit license. They didn't learn anything from becoming a pro raya. I remember that Bitcoin companies time with so honoris to deal with the bit license. They would just block your IP if you're from New York. They just say we don't serve customers in New York because it's too difficult to deal with them. We don't have a lot of lawyers where a little anybody start up. Now again, in the Bitcoin mining scene, they're copying China. You want to be more like China in New York. I don't know what they're doing, except that I think it's a little inside baseball. They got to protect the existing players. What do you think about New York's exciting? Go ahead, Joshua. No, I was going to say we were one of the first Valtoro to ban New York after the bit license. It was me and Eric Voorhees. We just said, no, this is no good. One thing we put on there, actually, was when you're signing up, you have to say, I am not from Syria, North Korea, Iran or New York. It went viral. In the Bitcoin community at the time. That's really what it comes down to. It's like, hang on, but I'm not from Syria, Iran, North Korea, or New York. It was really interesting. When they're making these laws, they know about that. They know that they're following the list. They're like, we're cracking down on Bitcoin mining just like China. Everyone loves China. That's so popular to follow China. New York is following China. Great idea, guys. Dan Eve, what do you think about New York plans to visit soon? Well, I'd love to actually go back to it. I think the future. Last was in 2010 for the blockchain week. At the end of it, sorry, side story, at the end of it, there was like a boat party, a mystics, I was flying home, and they gave away two asting Martins. But it later turned out that the two asting Martins, they gave away with two employees of the company running the giveaway. Yeah, but it sounds like that would be worth a lot more than $67,000. Oh, yeah. How do you know? But first of all, in the head like, in the not the headline, but there was like three sub points. One of them was that if it passes, it would make New York the first date in the country to ban blockchain technology infrastructure. No, it didn't say that at all. Like the article doesn't even say that. The actual article itself doesn't say that. It's says about the miners that are using fossil fuels. So it's not banning outright banning blockchain it. Because it's going to the sensationalization, which is a bit, obviously silly in this week, what we're used to, for building the case against Bitcoin. But the article didn't actually have some other interesting points. But one thing I did say was that cracking the alarm miners that use electricity power for plants that burn fossil fuels. But Bitcoin, Bitcoin doesn't create the energy from fossil fuels. It uses it. So why why say we're banning miners that use fossil fuels rather than we're banning fossil fuels? Like because other stuff uses it. So it's totally okay to toast your bread using carbon, but it's not okay to mine Bitcoin. It's totally okay to do some, I don't know, to leave your PlayStation on sleep mode using carbon fuel, put carbon, carbon fuel for basic electricity, but not mine Bitcoin. So it's just a silly thing to do to stifle innovation really. Why ban one industry uses the carbon, carbon base fuels? It just seems crazy. But no one's doing it anyway. No one's mining in New York. And how do you get a choice when you plug it in? I switched to like even if you switch to renewable, you're still getting the same energy. It's just you're paying a little bit more to the renewable guys. Like it's yeah, and although it just says we're living in La La land everyone, we're just in La La land. But it's a saying that New York actually has more renewables from hydroelectricity, than any other state west of the rocky or east of the Rockies, east of the Rockies, which I think is with the Rocky Mountains or something. So it seems like some people aren't a fan. I think nuclear energy, apart from you know Fukushima and three of my island and obviously Chernobyl. But that's three three, okay, three power stations in in what's 70 years of nuclear power, three power stations. And the actual the number of deaths you know compared to the amount of coal that's pumped out in the atmosphere, they're so efficient that the generators they're a terrible idea guys. They're a terrible idea. If there's a war, if there's a war, and and those things just fine. Absolutely fine. In all the way they've got like the the the the the uranium or just dig a hole. Do you know how much power the globe has got? We don't need to you know at the end of the day. Yeah, let's all split and go through hardcore like you know chemistry to be out and a nuclear like the amount of work to boil water is just insane. You just dig a hole. It gets hot enough very quickly. Pour some water down there. Cheers. And you got steam. Like what are you splitting atoms for steam and having very dangerous? Because it's fun and you get to where lab jackets for fact say that's true. Lab jackets. But the talkumac right the talk of the the the Chinese the talkumac that's like close to producing I think they did like a hundred million degrees or something that's close to producing nuclear fusion not nuclear fission so power by nuclear fusion. But but I think that this band can't handle it is another thing that has a has a net negative effect because the as the art was this you know this I think 80 deep. They they study found that the sustainable electricity mix is closer to 80% for it in the state of New York. Now that's a lot of renewable energy right so by banning mining where it could be up to 80% used as renewable by from renewables. You're making them go to another state which has more lax laws so they'll be mining with more carbon. So it's got a net stupid effect like it's one of those shoot yourself in the foot kind of thing. I know it seems it seems a bit silly but the other thing that the final thing was that two things one is that the apparently according to the 38% of the world's miners are in the US now after the China ban. Obviously there's been some more migrating back to China but 38% is pretty huge maybe a little centralized one might say in a certain you know country to have so much mining power in there. But but the other thing was that the sustainable mix of the global bitcoin mining industry they said is today estimated to be just under 60% and you know what that means that's 10% more than the threshold for Tesla saying we'll accept Bitcoin again. So when when Tesla accept Bitcoin and the you know the Bitcoin pump that's going to come as a result of the Elon fans will buying Bitcoin after Tesla accepts Bitcoin again. So that's good news. I think what Dan said leads well into the exit question. After New York there are 49 more states. Will they follow in New York's lead also banning Bitcoin mining not from renewable energy or will they ignore New York and like Dan said try to bring in some of that business that New York is turning away. Josh Shigala which way will the other states go? That's the good thing about the American systems sort of individual you know different states do different things. The things maybe a state like California will follow but I think some of you know Texas will go hey we've got the power. It's make it happen. That's what terrible Texan accent. Dan Eve what are you think? I can see this becoming more of a partisan issue every day because I think that Josh is right the American the California states and the Democrat states will follow New York and it'll become a partisan issue because all the gun totten Texans will take all the black gold that's now Bitcoin gold and they will be doing all the mining. It's never too late for us to go into acting with these amazing Southern accents I'm sure I'm sure the comments are going crazy. We're heading towards the end of the show Josh Shigala are you ready with a story of the week or a prediction go ahead Josh. Story of the week it's finally sunny and vitamin D is up in Germany and prediction is that you know the standard is coming along where we're going to launch a new website that's prediction but it's really really exciting to the contracts are pretty much done the major major smart contracts and now I'm just so excited really proud of the team we've been beavering away really really hard at at this technology so it's it's really exciting to see it coming together and yeah get over the discord go to get over to the standard I don't check out the discord sounds great Dan so Dan I have a prediction and my prediction that that next week I'll be hanging out with WCN's very own Madbickoy's in in UK and I even drew a diagram about how I live in the bum hole of England which which Tom will be visiting so you're visiting before of course and but you have certainly the diagram now so you can see it for yourself but we may I need to fish out the Bitcoin flag and we may just have to take a trip to Stonehenge and fly the flag once again and get kicked out once again by security maybe just go to some castle that that likes us and we could fly it there but yeah I'm also I'm flying the flag there as well there we go see they like us there hey you gotta come to blockchain days in my yorko Thomas I don't know I might have to go back to the states to settle some important business but we'll see if I can extend the trip as the guys have been saying I'm in Europe I got to go to Paris last week I got a little Eiffel Tower there I'm in London right now I got to see Lea Mizzarab which is about Paris so everything's coming together went to the British Museum today saw the Stonehenge exhibit which is the place that Dan and Ben and I went and almost got kicked out of flying the Bitcoin flag there's a great video of that somewhere in the world crypto network but yeah having a great time it's great to be traveling again there's still a little bit of a virus out there but so far so good and it's just great to be out in the world doing things and going to pubs and going to museums and all that so I hope that you guys can get out as well hopefully before the winter when I I'm afraid it's probably going to come back oh the two days have had a terrible terrible I'll see how it goes but there's always new exciting developments and viruses they just keep getting better and then sometimes they get worse so with money parks it could go anyway there's yeah just it just got to avoid the raves on that one apparently but thanks to everybody for watching give us a thumbs up down below check out the other episodes we got a big long playlist of these I uploaded the original ones to the world crypto networks you can now watch the playlist all at one time this is episode 310 that seems like a lot maybe we'll just celebrate every 10 episodes now but thanks again for joining us in the chat leave a comment we'll read those later give us a thumbs up and subscribe until next time bye bye bye