The Bitcoin Group, the American original, for over the last 10 seconds, the sharpest Satoshi's the best Bitcoin's, the hardest cryptocurrency talk. We'd like to welcome our panelists, Dan Eve, the crypto-raptor. Bonjour, Bitcoin is. Ben Arck from LNBITS. That I could even at all. Josh Jagalla from thestander.io. I come in peace. Juan Galt from JuanGalt.com. Hello there. And I'm Thomas Hunt from the World Crypto Network, moving on to issue one. Fed sees $3.6 billion in stolen Bitcoin, arrest New York City couple in the DOJ's largest crypto bust to date. The United States government has said it's found people attempting to launder the proceeds from the BitFinex hack. And what people they've found. Not only do they have $3.6 billion in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, they're also a rapper who has an online career where they have more pizzazz than gangus con. And the government's holding on to their frozen embryos. So their lawyer says that they won't run out of town because this is the only place they can get frozen embryos for their future. Dan Eve, this couple, they may have stolen the BitFinex money. They might have social engineered it. Maybe they got it off the hacker. Nobody knows, but they were trying to launder $4.5 billion in Bitcoin and didn't work out. What do you say? It's crazy. I mean, last week we were talking about, we were talking about proof of keys day and things have all so fast. It's now like proof of embryos day. Like, you've got to keep your own embryos, right? Otherwise the government can seize them just like with your Bitcoin. You need to have your own private keys. Otherwise the government can seize it. Or not, but these didn't, like, this one thing that's interesting about this is it flies in the face of everyone saying, or all these articles saying, oh, Bitcoin, it's used for money laundering and scavenging, you know, possibly, you know, money laundering and criminals and blah, blah, blah, blah, because they can get away with hiding all these funds. And actually, Bitcoin is extremely, it's quite traceable. It's a public ledger, you know, and these people not only were traced down, but they've managed to have the most asset seized in history second to what like someone linked to the Bernie Maddoff like Ponzi scheme, which is a shame. You know, that Bitcoin is up there with the mad off seizure of obviously. But the fact is that, you know, it flies in the face of anyone that says that it can be useful money laundering because it's traceable. It's a public ledger. They were caught out by doing stuff like, you know, they even, I think they used it for ballmarks. So they were pretty kind of, you know, blasey about the, about the whole thing. And yes, to gift cards, I think they bought a PlayStation or something like that. But Razor Codden's quite interesting. I was watching, you know, she writes for Forbes, right? So not only is, does she do this sort of wrapping thing? And so I also had a famous online presentation. It was something like how to social engineer your way into anything. And it was just unbelievable slide after slide describing their social engineering skills. Oh, she's so she's pretty blatant about it as well. Like, you know, the crocodile of Wall Street. And I think it's quite funny. Do you like to give us some of the videos? And, you know, they're obviously comedy, right? She doesn't, I don't think she's a serious, serious rapper. But, you know, the bit, Phoenix are going to be like shareholders are going to be quite happy, right? Because they're going to have a lot of Bitcoin, you know, a flow and back to them, do you think? Or is it interesting? Because if anyone can remember that, Big Phenax was one of the ones where they printed their own debt token. So they gave all their customers who were robbed that debt token. Then the debt token went down in value and they bought their own debt back at a lower price. So it really worked out well for Big Phenax, the company. I don't know about any of the people that had their money there. And I don't know what they do now because they've kind of been compensated already with this debt token. Maybe the company just keeps the money. And as far as the US government, I don't know if they give you back all the bitcoins, or maybe just the value it was, you know, when it was stolen, you know, we keep the rest. What do you say to keep? That's a really interesting question. I think. So first question, does anybody remember what the debt token was called and what's its trading at? Because if those like they should, the money that was stolen was Bitcoin, not dollars. So the lawyers should definitely try to get the billions of dollars. Now how long is it the OJ going to take to give this back? I mean, we're still waiting for the empty box money to return to its rightful owners, right? So it could take years, right? But possibly, right? But yeah, like people, what Big Phenax did was they should have token as to their asset holders. They should have traded it and sold it for pennies in the dollar, right? To kind of get something out of it. And then people traded it up and accumulated it, right? People speculated on that debt. And so now what happens? I think that's going to be an interesting sort of, sort of side story to this. But it was a really, it was a really major move in Bitcoin where everyone always talks about not printing your own money. Here's a company that printed their own money, distributed it, wiped out a debt. For all we know, bought the debt back at a lower price and now it gets to keep the money. This could be studied in business school forever. This was again, it's one of those Facebook move fast and break things and they moved fast. They broke everything and it doesn't seem like it mattered. Simon Dixon called it, it's called it, they reinvented bankruptcy. That's what Simon Dixon called it. It is huge. Now, far way to put it. Let's get to the technical aspects. Ben Arck, they used to have Bitcoin and they had a Bitcoin system where every time money was withdrawn, it would check with a third party, Bitcoin, to make sure that you had the 2FA and then it would do the withdrawals. Obviously, someone turned this off, deactivated it, took it out of the code and then they were allowed to withdraw as much as they want. Was this a technical hack on BitFinex? Or do you think somebody called somebody on the phone sent out some emails? I think that was a big set. It was a big set. I think that was BitStand. That wasn't the BitFinex hack. I think that was the BitStand. If I remember it, we were talking before the show about auditing and how these auditors or they look at it and they're not what's going to go wrong with code. BitFinex is back in and had some big hole in it. They'd audited and they'd look at it and it's not until they start there and the wild, these things get hacked which is why you should hold your own funds if you can and go with an exchange like my Toro or Kraken which has been running for a long time as an exchange. It's proved that they can actually hold on because their system is funds properly. But now with BitFinex, a lot of people who had their funds on it, they were getting yield back from staking their coins, weren't they? There's a lot of people I know who lost a lot of money on there and then they got that shit coin token which they were given and they lost a lot of money because they needed to sell it but they started for a lot less than the funds were which they had taken. So it would be very interesting to see whether they actually get the funds back and I think they will. And if they do then it would definitely be the dollar value, it wouldn't be the Bitcoin value of the funds which was taken. Obviously that would be incredible if they did do that because for all these people it would be almost like a savings account or something because you get these bitcoins back when they were so much more money. I think it was $71 million worth of Bitcoin which was stolen originally at the 200,000 Bitcoin and now it's worth 3.6 billion which is just an astronomical amount of money. 4.5 wasn't it? I do think the government has to give them. I think they're not giving them all the bitcoins though. I do think that all the bitcoins coming back the question is if the company distributes them or if these debt tokens are out of their requirement. I mean if you've already been paid debt tokens, why should I know Bitcoin? Because I'm a victim of not in stocks. I did take an interest in how BitFinX dealt with their hack. And I kind of found it fascinating actually the way that they issued first of all the BFX token but they went ahead then and created something called recovery right token or something like that. There was a second token which hack victims took a share in another company called IFINX. There's a whole like layers of it but then this is the interesting one. Then in like around 2019 they created another token called Leo something like that. And Leo the promise was if any funds get recovered from the hack they will buy Leo tokens burn them. With those funds. I mean they were like bringing up Mount Gucks. The interesting part was that they didn't just have to close shop and then everyone lose their money and it all goes to lawyers and litigators and whatever else. They were able to continue to operate even though a lot of Bitcoin has lost huge shrinks of money. With Mount Gucks it was just game over as soon as they were hacked. I mean I'm still waiting the lawyers are still munching through all that money that's owed on that little bit that that. Well I do have an update on my exciting Mount Gucks coins. They've been sending me emails for what has this been five years, seven years, something like that. And I finally got around to where I was like okay I'm going to figure out how to log in. I'm going to find out how much money they own me and for all these emails they've been sending it. It must be something right. 60 cents. 60 cents in there. There's still going to send me 10 more emails all in Japanese followed by a translation. Like over and over again for the 60 cents. I don't even know that they could give it back to me in dollars. So maybe someday I'll get a check but I'm still holding out for that. The worst part of that hole Mount Gucks deal is they had all these creditors that they erode and the mark for the Mount Gucks team found 200,000 Bitcoin behind the couch or something like that, 20,000 or something, some amount. And and since then they they were basically going to to sell all those Bitcoin but that would absolutely crush the market and it did. We saw 2017 got blamed the dump on 2017 in the bear market got blamed for being triggered by the first sell off of these coins and everyone went well can you not just do a market order with this shit like Kenya's just you know ask some people in the know. Anyway and then basically Mark Partish went through the courts and went for another mechanism some sort of legal instrument in in Tokyo to then basically make it so that people can the creditors can get the Bitcoin back rather than getting fear out the equivalent back. And and this all got passed everyone's now signed it and said yeah let's do it. But the biggest thing that stopped that is a company out of the US which Mark was trying to partner with and this company has been basically trying to sue Mount Gucks for everything like billions and billions saying that we would have been as big as Coinbase if you hadn't screwed up and it's like hang on so you're trying to screw up screw every creditor for your strange fake ass dream world where somehow your business did as good as Coinbase if only and and anyway so so they've been basically holding everyone at ransom and this is why it's taken so super long. So I've kind of found it interesting how BitFinx dealt with that. I don't think it was perfect. I certainly don't think that but I do think it was an interesting way because everything in crypto is all about trying new things trying things better than the old way rather than these companies just going bust and going through you know 15 20 years of legals while lawyers are basically taking as long as they want and the longer they take the better for them because they chew through all that money and rather than that I'm just going okay let's let's tokenize the debt. Well in the fun fact so the BitFinx hack is reported to have been a hack of a two or three multi-sig. One of the keys was held by BitFinx the other by BitGo and then there's a backup key that wasn't used and if I remember correctly the BitGo key was basically there's some sort of automated or semi-admitted process right like some sort of email manual authentication and I'm guessing through some sort of social engineer or something that automation of signing of the of the BitGo key was triggered and that's how they got all the money out. That's how I recall it there's something like that so um well there's a huge deal after that because everyone was like oh how can you break BitGo and how can you break multi-sig and it was you automate it and because you have to do it you know 100 times a day or thousand times a day whenever you're you're doing it withdrawal you can't wait for BitGo to check the withdrawal so you just automate it and then it doesn't matter at all as a security step yeah yeah I mean this was years ago too right like I'm sure it's a lot better now but yeah when you when you time corrected then Thomas that was BitFinx and aha when you look through there um uh old YouTube channels this couple they were kind of scamming like they had like an email marketing kind like email marketing business thing which she was trying to kind of push obviously till they ripped off everyone's off and took all their money didn't have to do that so much and he was scamming as well he had some like scammy sounding startups annoying scammy sounding startups for what what do you think though Ben do you think this was a social engineering hack do you think that I think that for the people at home like social engineering is like I call you up on the phone I pretend I'm from tech support I get another number I email some guy I pretend I'm from tech you know you keep doing all these pretend things you keep talking to people and you talk your way in so there's a like a technical problem you know somebody hacks your thing and then there's a social problem where someone just talks their way in do you think that's what this could have been a hops but I kind of have more feeling they kind of like script kitties and they're just like writing those scripts and then just bombarding this guy started the hackers like this is the weird thing about the stories that these people are not the hackers they're saying they're saying it's it explicitly says on multiple articles of the ones that we're sort of looking at that these guys are not being accused of being the hackers they're accused of monitoring a portion of the funds and which is the funny thing is that there's this all these moulks and mirrors around this this really cringey rapper right it's what they it's what they can it's what they can what they can charge them for they can charge them they caught them for trying to loan to the money but they can't like charge them for stealing the funds in the first place because the other one there's a lot of question there too because remember we're dealing with a bunch of criminals here so maybe they stole it from the hacker maybe they socially engineered it from the hacker no I think I think why why would the hacker give them all his money why they bought it when he's associated with his previous company yeah when he's starter yeah when you look through that they kind of like older YouTube videos and social media stuff like they were kind of tech savvy and they were kind of scammyish they went to scammy things like trying to make an easy quick box so that they I think they're kind of prime for for for actually being the hackers and she comes across as like very shrill and annoying a bit of a dumbass or whatever but I think she's on the spectrum she's actually high functional and and I think she's probably very capable person and he is as well so I think that's a great article where the article said humor should be taken as a sign of intelligence too many people see the goofy videos they see what she's doing and they're like she must not be smart but really it seems like the opposite she was able to make goofy videos because she was in touch with herself she did know she was being silly and that you know humor we shouldn't just write it off they're like oh they're too funny to be the guys I also think they're like they kind of I mean obviously they cause all this heartbreak and everyone hates them for it but like there's something enduring about this aspergersy shrill micro dosing like tech what tech want to be New York hipster being this being being the hacker and I think that it's just so so memeable and I can just imagine how I kind of being part of Bitcoin wrapped up in Bitcoin's history and reappearing at different times you know on Twitter whatever but yeah no it's very interesting Dan Dan Dan you move in the cringe rap circles maybe I think you're the hacker they could be isn't she now like the most successful hacker that the most successful rapper on the planet as well like monetized because the money she's made from in theory yeah and think about the rap she could make now in jail like I was lying on it four billion on the outside now do it up on the inside but it is interesting how they you know how did they get access to that three point six billion because it's it's just literally saying under the articles directly say that it was seized from them it just says it was seized and their links access to to the private key so of another wall that was associated but then but it's not the accusation is done made anywhere that they're the hackers in fact the way that this portrayed is that they had access to keys that had the original funds and so they're not hitting them for the hacking yet which is interesting you do have to ask like how the healthy they end up with like a majority or at least a large portion of these funds and that's exactly what I want to know they're obviously not the hackers they're ridiculous where this money they are prediction is the fact that the feds hack here here's my prediction the feds hack with Phoenix and then they you know empty gorg style and then they they they passed it on to to this you know New York rapper to the one interview I wanted to be like one day we got an email where someone offered us three point six million dollars to Launder and we said okay why not uh it was a print to be this way there was a prince who had the the money if the lawyer you know that classic thing was checked out it seemed okay is a good thing they were they were they were they got the money they were popping out these stupid like uh start up ideas until the hack and then when the hack happened you can see that their content sort of lessened and they started to do more of the you know uh wrapping stuff on also the silly content so um no it they are the people who hacked the funds they've got the funds um definitely it's not somebody else I don't think does it speak very well for the security guys well I mean so there was reading between the lines of the articles because a lot of the articles they were they were they were they were they were they were um uh they had like a sophisticated laundry operation where they would quickly go in and out of other quickpoke currencies and we all know that that's actually like for chain analytics if you've got x amount going you know to a transaction and then that x amount happening on something like Monero and then and then suddenly what we can't see on Monero but then you know half an hour later you have this the same amount then being shifted in bitcoin you can say well okay well you know we've lost the connection here and here but the amounts are the same so and if you don't like have space between those transactions when you jump in and out of chains because we're easy to trace so it didn't sound as sophisticated as you know just by when you actually read the articles it says that they were doing these transactions in and out of chains and so on and out but they didn't say that it was they were direct transactions to a $500 Walmart card you know they could actually chase you know from the wallet to to a PlayStation bought a Walmart so that's pretty interesting that they if they wear that clever that they drop the ball on something so simple right that's what people do though isn't you know they think they get they become complacent yeah yeah I'm really curious if they use for Sabi or Samurai if you want to give us details on this if you had like four billion dollars there's not much you can do with it like you can hand it onto your children a lot of money your children have this problem or your grandchildren or whatever like someone's always going to come looking for their four billion dollars like it's just too big you're by by way into a country or something you buy a country and it's the best bet by a bond by bitcoin bond somewhere they should have went to El Salvador all right let's let's move on to the exit question exit question which style of bankruptcy do you prefer the Mt. Gawks style where the company goes away completely and you get strange emails in Japanese about your 60 cents for like 10 years or this crazy bit for next style where the money disappears completely but you get a strange debt token that you sell for less money than it's worth but then the money all comes back anyway Dan Eve which do you prefer well I think the second involves involves a shit coin and and whilst it kind of seems like a nice thing to like print a token that that gives you some sort of value you know it seems like people are going to be worse off than if they just got the the bitcoin back like like what's happening in in Mt. Gawks but it does say in a number of articles that the victims it says the victims will be will be given their bitcoin back rather than saying like bit finnex will be given the bitcoin back to give to their victims it says the victim so whether they're going to do something direct because of the bit finnex token that was created I don't know be interested to see this one play out obviously this money belongs in a museum the United States government should use this money to make us with Sony and museum in all 50 states 50 states with museums Matt Damon Ben Ark you like the Mt. Gawks style bankruptcy or the strange bit for an ex-debt token style futuristic I mean I mean I prefer the bit for an x version but I mean I prefer the concept of the bit for an x version if it's done better which it would be done now if it was if it happened now then hopefully an exchange would do the bit for an x style like it continue operations and put it in a way where people would lose less money but my my now I'm just sort of sat here with popcorn thinking can the government hold on to 3.6 billion dollars worth of bitcoin without any of it leaking out and getting you know next by law enforcement or whatever else like who they're pulling I imagine they've got the the Gemini twins in in there and they're like advising them on how to secure the bitcoin whatever but that so imagine they've got some good talent around them securing it but it's just like can the government hold this amount of money and not fuck it up like that's the big question they're just going to have to pay their guy their tech guy more than four billion dollars to keep track of it it's all you have to do Joshua Shagall your thoughts which bankruptcy style do you prefer it's an interesting question I actually like the bit for next style one you know having gone through now gocs one it's it's pretty horrible it's just slow and dealing with players and so what I what I liked about the bit for an x one if you did hold the debt tokens they did actually get made that bit for an x was such as such a profitable business for a long time that they managed to actually pay back from profits long ago and and and you know flatten everyone out so so it was that that did actually work out and now there's all this other stuff I know they did multiple like I said multiple coins and I didn't really keep track because I didn't lose anything in that in that hack but it was just interesting seeing it in the beginning and I like this creative mechanisms I think the future is a little bit and we might see it roll out now actually is a little bit of a mixture of the two where you know if if the funds are returned eventually and I think in the future as well I mean this was wild crypto was still full cowboy stage and now we're already starting to see insurers underwriting wallets so now that this is happening we might see people if there is a hack basically get get made whole very quickly so through maybe maybe insurance I don't know but I mean some of these hacks are absolutely enormous that it could absolutely destroy an insurance company as well it's interesting you mentioned earlier Josh about a leo coin where you could bet on bit finnex getting their money back you would be rewarded if they found the money mount gocks while not set up by them but there was a similar service at the time called something like mount gocks coins where you could purchase from other users their accounts and if they ever got any money back you were then supposed to get the money from those coins I don't know if it worked I don't know if the Japanese bankruptcy court recognized these strange agreements from gocks coins or whatever but it is interesting to see the speculation side of these exchange collapses everyone's always like we have a plan we can make it for you and we just need 10% of the gross yeah it wasn't really a coin it was more like a different account where you they would buy I can't comment it was yeah it was I don't know something but make making maker there's also a great thing at the time where everyone was like should I keep my money in you know mount and bitcoin on mount gocks that are frozen or in USD that's frozen and there's different opinions on which the bankruptcy court would give you money back first or if they'd give you bitcoin if they'd ever give you bitcoin if they'd give you the value of the bitcoin and even now the mount gocks people are still waiting at home still waiting for their money any of it one goal your thoughts which bankruptcy styles you prefer yeah I mean I mean I may be a shitcoin minimalist but I'm definitely I'm definitely leaning towards this particular optimistic shit coin so I would go with the big phoenix with phoenix path however I think yeah I think it's gonna be really interesting and I'm just looking at the price of Leo and it doubled in the past like two weeks so there you go yeah so when did that when did the hacks news come out there's it it's been this week I mean in past few days for sure right so so there was some front running on that news as well probably I mean the price looked pretty good like the price was definitely bullish but there's that obviously front running I think yeah I mean if I was the agent Karl Marx force Karl Marx force right investigator in that in that case and I busted these people I would have you know and this is we saw this sort of level of weird gray corruption but also full on corruption in the mount gocks so sorry not the back box that the the silk road take down there was all sorts of jeergery pokery going on there with agent stealing like thousands of bitcoin and threatening other and chasing other people down all over the world to try and like docks them and these were like official agents but working with the power that they have in the background to be able to then you know basically privately profit from the the machinery that they had behind them yeah yeah it's stunning and I think that's the question like I want to see if the bitcoin actually returns to be finished one thing is can they secure it the other thing is will they return it right I mean the DOJ has been kind of sketchy the past few years depending on how you look at it right maybe they'll just keep it right couldn't they right like you look at what they're doing what they're trying to do in Canada like they might not be they might not have the power to do that or the legitimacy to do that right today but look at what they're trying to do with the go fund me in Canada right like the mayor of of or out of what it's like well we should probably keep some of that money so we can pay for the expenses of this protest right and like like they want that money they're like they're like eyeing it right so we'll see what happens I don't know I think the DOJ will give them their money back they'll give them the full bit coins and they won't lose it even though there is there is like you say potential for scam potential for a clawback I also don't think the auto-amer is going to get any that money either if you're if you cancel a fundraiser you have to refund the fundraiser you can't say oh it was for puppies but now we're using it for kiddies it's just not fair but let's not get into that issue yet Ben do you have more on this not really all right I forgot what it was but I did not did it all unmuted and ready to go I was going to throw you back in but let's move on to the next issue as one was saying issue to trucker protests recently on the Ontario and Canada has called for a state of emergency there's been an active protest now let's just try to get some of the particulars out of the way originally the truckers were protesting that if they as Canadian truckers went into the United States a country that is full of virus and came back to Canada they would have to either get vaccinated be vaccinated or spend two weeks in quarantine which would obviously destroy your business as a trucker the trucker's union was okay with this with I believe 80% of the union not supporting the protest the Canadian people are okay with this with almost 80 90% of them being vaccinated as well however these protests became international and interesting to Bitcoiners when the protesters like you guys alluded to earlier they're go fund me and other centralized fundraising websites relying on credit cards and other traditional technologies that we've known for years don't work for these kind of political type fundraising their money was seized and the protesters an interesting move turned to tally coin tally coin yes the website that was brainstormed by myself instituted by DJ booth from Australia who also made the world crypto network and mad bitcoins webpages through kind of one of those things tally coin allows you to fundraise for anything really and it just sends the money to your bitcoin or like king like name address tally coin has a page like this where it has some information about your fundraiser but can't touch any of your money so more along the bitcoin lines of this maybe we'll talk a little bit about the protest Ben arc what do you think about the idea of Bitcoin being this dual use technology where it's good for liberals it's good for conservatives it's good for extreme protests it's good for non extreme protests bitcoin itself doesn't care and that gives a lot of groups whether left or right marginalized groups the ability to suddenly raise funds not have them frozen not have them taken away by the legal system which previously could just do whatever it wanted regardless of left or right yeah I mean some some people is it's it's cyclical anyone can use it so you know the Jews in Nazi Germany could have used it to secure their wealth in a way which is easy to transfer over borders and then some right leaning truckers can use it to accept donations through tally coin huge props tally coin in DJ booth I mean it's really exciting to see this project which people use like it's a useful project and a great website and it's got that amazing DJ booth style to it but then to have it like plastered all over the news and people talking about it openly I think is absolutely fantastic and Thomas like you say this is something which you theorize for for many episodes you would say you know well this is this ago for me type thing needs to exist too on bitcoin this is how you do it it'd be released to do and it would work and then DJ booth when I made it and so it must be quite rewarding in a way to see well and like you said Ben it was great it was in the mouths of every right wing commentator Tucker Carlson who I disagree with very much said tally coin and the way they say it they haven't really investigated much they say it like it's equal to Kickstarter or whatever go fund me like a massive corporation tally coin and I know it's like one guy and like me sending my ideas and max hila brand helping out in the world crypto network all this kind of beta testing it kind of just you know testing it trying I mean I was I was I was I was I was trying to collaborate with DJ booth on making like an extension for our own bits and it where you could like easily get the funds sent to your own bits I don't know how we're going to do it but DJ booth did his part actually it was me I kind of like that because I was busy with other stuff so I saw kicking myself I was like damn could have could have really did that train a little bit but I'm well it's funny because he was also trying to rename the software to a better name and to refactor it do all the stuff to it and he's like oh now it's faint over the old name and it's the old code it's the old version like whatever he's going to plan it you know you don't even know if he needs it so I know it's the bunch of a bunch of the campaigns on that as well I've kind of been riding on the back of it they've all been having donations um just because people have going on there funding the truckers and thinking oh well this can be fun and uh they so if anyone's got a project well and that that was always what I'd said too is always we're gonna if you can put the fundraisers next to the other fundraisers people give 10 to this one we'll give five to that one and you see again I didn't I didn't really want it to be create an extreme right wing protest but um yeah it's it's one of those things like you say about where it is bitcoins neutral and and that's what I said forever bitcoins inevitable it's happening it's good for both sides and it's neutral it doesn't care I mean I didn't realize I mean so so I I'm yeah yeah I mean I'm I'm vaccinated aware I'm asking that stuff I believe in all that but um I don't like the idea of of people being forced to be vaccinated but I didn't realize they obviously had that quality not shouldn't there so through the press it's kind of being you know through the lens it's kind of being diluted down so it's just they're being forced to be vaccinated so that's what the process is about um but I mean truckers are a huge political force Andre Yang talks about this in his human capital book about the if you have with the UBI if you have um driverless cars which will happen within the next couple of decades truckers own their own trucks um they're incredibly important to US infrastructure just by by cladding a few roads here and there they can bring the country to its knees so I I kind of feel that this this this thing which is happening with these these truckers in Canada is um it's like you know they're flexing their strengths and and it's probably a good thing for their unions or whatever because when the driverless trucks come along then there's going to be a big five which they're going to get involved and so it's kind of seen interesting see how all that pans out but yeah I've seen Tally coin there up there on the big screen is very exciting but you're right Ben there could be a even larger protest if the truckers try the same thing to protest blockading cities versus the self-driving software and we'll see how it goes okay Josh are you ready here you go what do you think they're raising money with Bitcoin they have their own political issues they raised with or go fund me they got they got screwed with that this is that really what highlights how scary these centralized systems are digital centralized systems and and and then they tried with get go get funds or something some other kind of a religious type of website but it was it's structurally it was the same as go fund me was centralized yeah used visa I mean there was really it was the same thing and so this time it wasn't them freezing the funds it was like higher up levels just basically taking the funds so you know Bitcoin is definitely a thing but what happens now is that there's this for for the normie I hate that term but just kind of just the ease of use they will take that and try to convert it to other things what the great thing about this is is that if Coinbase got it they would also freeze the funds because there's very large players involved here and and so really what's beautiful about these moments these watershed moments is that hey this person's give me a Jerry can I'll give you some sats for that and instead of caching it out and and using the all the the fiat to fund things the hope is that hey stay for stay away from the fiat because it will get frozen let's just get this economy flowing and this is the beautiful thing about side side projects and look I I just want to be on here because and say that these I I've been obsessively watching this this roll out and they aren't extreme right people they are normal people they're normal from the left from the right normal grannies all sorts the media's definitely got a massive slot of picturing these people's right wing that they they just don't want for us and a lot of them have vaccinated as well they're like I'm seeing a world heading towards just constant control and when I'm driving the truck through QR codes and scanning and what my health is and what this and that and they don't want their kids to grow up in that and they don't want their kids masked and stuff like that so they're just had enough after two years they've had enough and then normal people and to slant this as the as an extreme right thing is playing into the same weird thing like there's there's there's Sikhs there there's Blacks there there's there's Whites there there's American Indians there's Canadian Indians there's Asians there's all races there going what the hell and the media and Justin Trudeau are like oh they're all Nazis and right wing white supremacists gay hating and it's just shocking what we've said it's like huh wait what in what reality I've seen countless of streetwalkers giving actual talking to people on the road not the media normal people walking interviewing everyone's like hey man I love you blah blah blah all different ethnics do these gay people left people right people all just wanting their fricking freedoms that's all they want and to choose and look at whatever you think you've got to look at the data by now we've been sold pretty much snake oil maybe it helps maybe it helps these these things but to force everyone something that's causing countries like Israel that have had four boosters now and they've got more cases than anybody by far as I can hate guys one day we need to look and go hey you guys have sold us some pieces of shit you're fucking up our freedom and and everything that we've worked so hard for from the Magna Carta and it's hard work for death and destruction and two world wars for freedom and not only two world wars but America's gone freedom around the world and actually probably to get oil and resources but you know you under the guise of freedom and yet we're just like oh yeah let's line up in front of shops because I want to buy a fricking handbag and have to scan QR codes and have my kid for eight hours a day behind a fricking mask I had COVID it was a piece of fricking shit it was nothing it was nothing and my kid had one night of fever fuck you with your fucking bullshit COVID crap and this shit and what about the freedom for the the people who live in Ottawa what about the non-aggression principle on there okay yeah we're in love right here can't do business let's let's not let's not do the world war cap it just it just does seem like they've not violated the non-aggression principle it just does seems like that I've stepped over the line there like seems like the the government was interfering with their lives and now they're interfering with a lot of other people's lives just two more weeks this love this friend just just two more weeks to you know again do the science the science can't be delivered on a schedule you know sorry we delivered a vaccine or that's a time you won't take it it's very powerful that we're bailing against these right now it takes a lot of people to make the controls go on longer how many do you need how many do you need 90 percent I tell you what's going in the art again if they're going to go to if they're going to go to the US and they're going to come back and the US is very excited about their scene they're saying it seems like if you weren't an international trucker if you weren't an international trucker going to a strange country full of virus maybe you wouldn't need the vaccine maybe you would just you know be a Canadian trucker seems like when you're connected to society and in an industry and things are interconnected and gets complicated that yes there are rules and regulations of countries trying to protect themselves from virus many other things doesn't seem to be a virus is virus is one of those virus is in the end of the long time people didn't take the vaccine I mean again like did you see in the article did you see in the article the border let me speak let me speak let me speak let me see in the article the borders from China I got in January and the virus still got in did you see how did you see how it's known for more it didn't actually close the borders did you see how in the article they talked about satoshi so like the truckers are trying to raise 4.2 billion satoshi and I think they've got two point something satoshi I thought it was super cool how they weren't talking about Bitcoin I love it and that was in billion satoshi yeah and it was in in mainstream press as well like I love it in mainstream press when they start to get a handle on Bitcoin culture you know like small Bitcoin culture and it starts to penetrate larger culture I'm saying on the China race 4.2 billion satoshi and I thought it was amazing like it's no longer the China race 0.1 I think a tally coin tally coin defaults to satoshi so unless they unless they figured out the interface to switch it over to Bitcoin which they probably can't they were stuck with satoshi's it's pretty cool it's pretty cool I like it yeah sat and internally we can keep fighting about bits and sat you guys taking that yeah we're still fighting that one out but I agree with Josh if they had done this on coin base they would have had that same result that we're always so frustrated with where we're like bitcoins invincible and it's unseasable and all this stuff but they're coin base account got shut down because they trusted a centralized provider and once again you have to read the label like I think Trace would say you know you have to have your own keys especially if you're going to do kind of this protest related fundraising anything kind of politically sensitive you have to own your own keys but what's what's cool is what's cool is is now DJ booth as well because he doesn't have custody of any funds which is it's great I mean like it's so it's so tempting when you're on a service like that just to be a custodian because it's easier when he doesn't have custody of any of the funds at all so he can't be targeted by these authorities until the overreaching government says like well you're kind of like still broke because you set up a site that allows people to get funds to do nefarious things that we disagree with you know that they could they think I do think I do think that's a potential problem for the site and it's one of those other problems where the people unfortunately the bad people can keep changing so I think it's almost impossible to keep a site like this online because at first if you're like okay let's ban all the Nazis but then the Nazis start calling themselves puppies and you're like oh shit we have to ban all the puppies even if it's a legitimate puppy a puppy deal you know and it's just the spirals and there's no way it goes back to that content thing where Facebook is a common carrier Craigslist is a common carrier or Facebook and Craigslist and other things like it are responsible for everything that happens on their platform which is what I think the standard they would hold DJ booth too so well and and even if even if talikoyne doesn't have custodial control over the over the Bitcoin is being donated who is who created that that crowdfunding page or like who's who created who is Hong Kong Hottle and how are they distributing the funds it's something yeah they're going to distribute 500 thousand dollars or whatever to 5,000 truckers in a way that's fair I mean I'm not I don't have any reason to this trust Hong Kong Hottle but who are they right and so I think the only way I've seen online it's it's really strange it's like a group of four Bitcoiners including BTC sessions who I think is anonymous still and maybe another guy they seem like old school a cool bit course I hope they do good with the probably if he's anything good he might be anonymous yeah he might be pseudonymous but he's faces everywhere like he's very much a public person but I mean so I think the only way to really do this in the decentralized way without there being a kind of custodial point is actually go there and give all the truckers Bitcoin wallets and have them take selfies and put them on social media and let them spread the QR codes and then maybe just rank and list the QR codes on a Twitter feed and just cycle that through so that people see them something like that would probably actually be more decentralized because right now you still have a custodial control even if they have a multi-sick however it's a much better effort probably then go fund me because go fund me obviously gets maxed down now I have a lot of things to say about the the way that this is being covered I mean first of all right wing truckers this is completely absurd right like you know who's being right wing and fascistic the Canadian government shutting down churches you know because because they because they think that they don't have a right to pray to their god right like that's fascistic locking down trans movement across states in Canada locking down small businesses because they're right this I will do with their health that's fascistic if this was done if before after papers to travel for a cross-state supporters in Canada in Germany in the 40s that's the kind of pressure that the fresh the actual fascists were doing but it's really interesting because this is the techniques that you need to use let me just find a pandemic turn out to be the same techniques you guys are talking about it's like they kept people apart and it's like well we were trying to fight a pandemic they they checked people's ideas to see if they've been vaccinated well we were trying to fight a pandemic it's almost as if the same techniques that you opposed to in Nazi Germany are also the same techniques you'd have to use to fight a pandemic because what would you do you just give up it's humanity gives up we're just gonna let everyone so next time there's a scientific problem we just get worked you can't judge that that's like if you're in prison notice this there will be more dead if we didn't do anything there you don't know that you don't know that that's not either that's not all speculated you don't know that now are you what about what about is really it's 90 percent you have a camera you try to fight the pandemic and they're still got a got a get a fight it by the idea here you just want to do nothing it's not true it's not true we know after this virus when we're seeing people dropping dead in China from all this bullshit that you're getting fed I was like get rise get ready yeah get mask I got prepared like we're all covered now we have two years of info about what works what doesn't we've got studies we've got we've got vaccines that you don't believe in studies and evidence you think you believe in studies in the world and don't die science anti-vaxxers yeah this is when it comes down to the line you're like when it's on your side you believe it when it's not on side don't believe it and generally if you ever post you just drop so many false civil liberty it's a strategy it's about civil liberties this is not an anti-vaxx movement this is an anti-academic a part time pandemic it's a period pandemic anti-mandy you know a real pandemic and that's that's a real pandemic people be there yeah like if you have a look like places like the Ukraine there was a there was a while there where they were having pandemics or every every all the time like constantly and for years and they were getting locked down they were getting shut down but and then eventually the people realized that doctors were like spreading stuff and pharmaceuticals were spreading and everyone revolted so they basically trashed and burned doctors and they went really crazy suddenly they didn't have it anymore after that they didn't have any more pandemics until now like you're I like toothbrush Josh you like that yeah yeah anyway I know it's very hard to because this is obviously a covered topic but you know people are watching the world crypto and I will not the world cover that works and let's be on to the next stop yeah sorry I think I think I think skeptic 33 raised a very good point is that you know they're raising the funds but who's who's actually just not just who's just tripping here but where's the off-ramp right so these these you can't pay for bitcoin with your with your gas at the moment so they're still some form of off-ramp that they've got to go through but you know the whole thing without trying to get back slid back into the politics is that like you know the whole point of bitcoin is that it's censorship resistant right and so what we but what we are seeing is lots of people that are into bitcoin they're her now saying well they shouldn't really be able to raise funds because it's a cause that I don't agree with they're extreme right wing fascist like crazy people but isn't that the thing that with bitcoin everyone has a voice they have a monetary voice and like you know that that's the point of it so I don't know it's just a bit sad to see almost the reversal of that and saying well maybe we should censor people and censor their causes just because you know something that I don't agree with so therefore you know what we should censor it you know the big ones about freedoms about holding your own keys holding your own freedom being able to transact freely person to person and we don't want to move back into the well it's okay in some instances to be able to take that away from people because you know that's kind of against the the principles of bitcoin and that's all I got to say about that it's it's interesting because seeing the like Ben Shapiro for instance standing up for Wuppie Goldberg not to get cancelled was really interesting because he's like look I'm not like them I don't expect because someone's got a different view of me to get cancelled straight away and to be thrown off and de-platformed and their whole livelihoods destroyed but I find it a foreign absolutely a foreign what she said but you know maybe she can learn from this and and actually understand it's a little different when a political commentator tater makes a lifetime of making these statements versus a comedian who basically doesn't know anything and that's probably why she didn't get fired forever because she's kind of stupid but she's a really good comedian and that's why they hired her but let's move on to the exit question a little bit more about fundraising like Dan was saying who's gonna get this money so I want you guys to judge on three recent fundraisers there's this bitcoin one they just got 21 million or they got 21 bitcoin that's almost nine hundred thousand dollars today there's the Ross Oldbrecht Dow where I think they've raised about twelve million dollars and then there's the Julian Assange Dow where I've heard they raised 50 million dollars I want you guys to pick one and tell me which one will be the most successful and actually helping their cause and why so Ben Ark Assange Ross Oldbrecht or the truckers I mean Assange I mean he's really got I mean Wikileaks has a lot of bitcoin but yeah Julian Assange Dow I hope well I mean you know obviously anyone who needs to have money donate to them sure they do if we're good reason good luck to all of them but yeah Julian Assange I imagine will be the one who comes up with the most successful I don't think the truckers they're not being they don't want huge maps they just want enough to be able to kind of tie themselves over while they're protesting and it's good to protest and so they're yeah I imagine Julian Assange will be the bigger one. Josh Shagala I mean the truck says like 50,000 tries this can be hard to distribute properly and this corruption could be involved you know no it's a very difficult thing like like one to that it would be better if every trucker had their lightning network and they would like people because people are decentralizing the fuel issuance now too to keep them warm in their truck so they're they're all coming in with Jerry cans that they donate and everyone's like keeping them so because like hey you have some stats for the Jerry can cool but yeah I think Julian Assange is really really important because no matter what you think of him no matter on the left and right we can all understand the concept that he is a political prisoner that reported some pretty horrific stuff that happened during the war and and and very very just important information to be exposed during war and and yeah and he suffered for a very long time for that for his craft and so I would like to see this money being used and and you know when I think about Dows you know we're building one at the moment for the standard and I really like you know no one really understands how Dows work yet anyone that calls themselves an expert and not because we're all making it up as we go along we don't know how it really works but the cool thing is how I can see it how I can visualize it in the future is that Dows will always outrun every other version because you're building a community and you're getting out of the way every other company has these people you know people wear night shirts and stuff they market for them by wearing the products but Dows have the ability to really incorporate all the fans and hey there might be like 50 different lawyers that can help in different ways so you can start to you know vote and on which ones or maybe use prediction markets say we don't know how maybe there's way better ways than voting but I think I think it's a very very interesting move on the terms like when I fell in love with Bitcoin all those years ago I fell in love for the anarchic purposes of Bitcoin and and and Dows are just as much a love for mine now because it's also an anarchist step towards a structured anarchy that gives that gives scaffolding for rules but not rulers and and I really I really love that as an evolution of in philosophy of anarchic philosophy and action so yeah let's see what happens it's a yeah it's a very interesting inefficient form of capital allocation uh called them cooperatives back in the day yeah Dows Dows this is why I'm interested in all that stuff and Bitcoin and as a lefty is you know for that very reason but yeah props to all these people who have built in these interesting Dows it's great well we used to study that kind of stuff at BTC jam when we were trying to do the loans things like lending circles and local landings and alternative ways to do it and it's nice to see the Dows coming on although I don't know how it's going to work out I agree with Josh it's with the truckers it's very difficult to see what the victory conditions look like do you buy every trucker a gallon of gas do you get them all a bucket of stew like how is this a success whereas with a all bright or a sange it's a lot easier pay the loyal for the lawyer fees get them out of jail do some PR stuff like that so it's a lot more straightforward uh one got which fundraiser do you think will be the most successful and why well definitely like to see this uh modern day labor movement called the freedom convoy um succeed but yeah I don't know I don't know who who will do it I think um probably a sange it's a big name um what were the other options a sange uh all-break from silk road I'd like to see him as well it's rough there's something called the the innocent project which is about uh people that are being incarcerated incarcerated um unjustly and who are still serving time that would be a good place for a lot of these fun this funding to go because it takes a much bigger umbrella and it has crimes that are less much less uh I guess the baitable right I mean I think I as much as I like Roushaw Brick to come out on top but you know I think I think his case is a little bit less uh clear cut even even as a libertarian then then obviously somebody like a sange or many other people in the innocent's project so I don't know I mean but I right now I'm all about this labor movement yeah to the point of the victory uh just quickly uh it really a lot of it what I've seen is like basic sanitation buying uh uh get renting toilets and sanitation and making sure it sounds like a civilization who will make the roads and rent the toilets you're making a civilization again dammit our society I wanted to be an individual I wanted to be disconnected to people and then I needed electricity and I needed sewage oh I could have gotten away no one wants to be disconnected I want to be connected of course uh this is uh oh come on if I go to another country and come back you can't tell me what to do with my body you can't make me get a shot yeah I'm disconnected from you oh you I mean what sounds ridiculous but it doesn't like the air like the air between us doesn't pass but this is all the molecules are connected that these things are separate and different individuals yes be an individual don't don't have shared sanitation have your own toilet don't share a lot of truckers do come on they don't have room for other people how can you have you can't have guests over they have guests the society for one they share everything in fact they have the crime crimes crime was dropped in Ottawa by 90 percent all the homeless people have been fed and they're the roads have been dropped too like there's no traffic anymore there's like there's no no there's traffic there's single roads you can actually park in Ottawa the all the parking is free now and and they they they put salt along the roads for the first time there is there is food everywhere hot food it's it's extraordinary if you look deeper than fricking CNN you'll see how how amazing these people are in Canadians it sounds like a commune it sounds like a really great libertarian commune of course they're also pissing on the Canadian war menu memorial you know just you know let these people together again like you know when they shit in the US capital spread it on the walls it's like there's always crowd there's antifa what's nice oh someone else there's always someone else it's always someone else okay what a okay all right Dan Eve finishes out old brick to sange or the truckers who's gonna be more successful I think sadly all worked is is gonna be safe not by a legal team but by a president who's who's kind of you know the the the outwishes right I just think that it's it's that far you know it's a sad case but it's that part gone I think from from the trucker's perspective but yeah ultimately they've been clamped down from from go fund meter this new place which didn't want to stop the funding because they weren't being dicks about it and taking sides they're just the government stepped in there's also I think it's was it ought to be that we're saying that they they they're actually stopping people from bringing gas or giving them fines or whatever so please stop that's gonna be that's like and they got the gas from a network of gas stations and a network of pipelines all these people working together to bring them to gas if you don't dig up your own dinosaur bones what kind of libertarian is this way I do have my own gas true is my own gasoline I have a refinery for one if you can have more black face incidents as true though then any other like president or leader in history like all put together then you know you've got the country under your thumb by the sounds of it and he can put any rules that he wants ahead so the fact is that I think that a sand should be the the one you know the end of the day he he he he's exposing war crimes and you know people like Tony Blair who lied about WMDs shouldn't be walking free and getting interviews and having their say on political political issues because they're assholes who lied to countries and led to people to war and should be their crimes should be exposed not like not truckers who are saying let me have some freedom and who are being literally strangled by their by the government the people actually who cause harm cause death cause violence should be brought to justice those are the assholes that should be so I'm going for a sange and I hope that them the most successful I'm all of the most successful ultimately but I think a sange has got the most the most reason to all right let's move on to the next issue check out WCN clips on YouTube we've got clips of this show from the world crypto network and more on WCN clips on YouTube issue three Republicans and Democrats will both support Bitcoin here's why a great new article from Pete Rizzo talks about how both Republicans and Democrats will get behind Bitcoin because Bitcoin creates jobs as we as we've seen the entire financial Bitcoin era has been created all kinds of different exchanges and products and cryptos and all kinds of things showing us that Bitcoin is good because it creates jobs Joshua Schegalla do you think that both Republicans and Democrats will support Bitcoin yeah I mean the good thing was that it's taken this long for them to get it and by this stage they've all got some Bitcoin and this was always the plan if you know in my head it's like there's many get as many politicians possible to invest in this stuff just like property right where they're all invested in in real estate a lot of a lot of politicians so anything to do with real estate they try to keep property passing laws that will keep propping up bubbles no matter how big the bubble gets they've got a new homeowners grant if you haven't bought a house and you're outpriced from the market we'll give you 20 000 bucks like in Australia 40 000 dollars to buy a new home but it has to be a new home and all this sort of and I think this is the sort of thing that happens when when politicians are actually invested in stuff the greed and the takes over and it's kind of a semi-type of corruption almost where they're like we should know we should let this Bitcoin thing pass because you know it's it's kind of interesting really they've got you know some sat stacked up themselves well both sides can certainly use it for fundraising it one gott will both side support Bitcoin yeah I mean I think I think they should and I think we should be careful to make Bitcoin become a partisan issue that would not be good for anybody involved Bitcoin obviously doesn't care who you are where you're from your name your color your birth date your age your gender like Bitcoin really doesn't care it can't care it can't see that and that's why it's good and so yeah it should people should recognize that at every at every step of the spectrum this isn't a left right issue it's a authoritarian versus libertarian issue fundamentally or in a sense it's a it's a freedom of choice and freedom to organize with your community as you wish versus the latter yeah I mean I would love to see more more sort of left you know left wing leaders kind of take you know recognize it I think it is happening there's a lot of Democrats there's a few Democrats that are sort of picking it up too so yeah that's my take on it it shouldn't be partisan Dan Eve yeah definitely like politicizing it is just makes it you make it like poo right because then people they they get fixated on their own on the political side of it kind of like let's be honest like the fact that in the the trucker's thing was you know you brought up right wing it was like took Tucker Carlson mentioned it therefore it's evil you know rather than saying the reasons behind it and the reasons why this this independent fundraising that goes straight to the people and that the bypasses the censorship of a company shutting it down or you know providing their own opinion so I think that's I think that's you know it benefits everyone right because you look at something objectively without having the poison of politics making you you think otherwise and try and justify for whatever confirmation bias reasons you have the reason why you should hate it and let's just hope that a lot of you know because at the moment it does seem like from from the Democrats side they're really not liking the environmental side you know you've got people like esteemed chief Indian Elizabeth Warren who's very much against the against Bitcoin from an environmental perspective you know obviously she's very well followed on social media so a lot of people are automatically taking that side that Bitcoin is bad and therefore it's a Democrat thing saying the Bitcoin is bad you know you've got people as soon as Trump said he says anything positive about it or Melania says anything positive you then go oh but the right wing the extreme right you know the fascist so it just it just poisons the well right rather than people thinking about how how Bitcoin is an apolitical tool and doesn't care it's an open source apolitical tool that doesn't care about who holds it who has it who yields it maybe they should maybe they should give some to Nancy Pelosi because then it will make her portfolio even better and and then the Democrats will like it even more but I'm getting political now now it's all it's all silly business ultimately look I don't care I don't care if you're a Republican you're a Democrat and you shouldn't care you should just think about Bitcoin as at the core what it does to society what benefits it does have and ignore the ignore the political sided stuff that's saying oh it's bad for the environment just because of X Y and Z and look at the sources where you're getting that information from them and that the and what they usually would say about anything that could be seen as a as a right wing or a left wing source right because it happens on both sides you know I've seen articles from right wing sort of publications that say that it's a socialist tool to democratize money or democratize money socialize money you know and that's a stupid thing because it's true and it's not in a way right the fact is that it's apolitical so I don't know keep the politics out of it and let's just yeah let's just cool Bitcoin for what it is which is ninja ultra sound hard money it would be pretty interesting if congress passes that bill banning senators and representatives from trading in stocks but they leave open some kind of a crypto loophole and they just spend the rest of their days trading in crypto under the table with the insider information Ben are your thoughts is Bitcoin left wing right wing will all the politicians stopped it I mean this is why I became a little bit more vocal a few years ago because I saw I definitely saw like a lean to the right and it kind of annoy me because it's just it's apolitical everyone can benefit from it no rulers you know people powerful or but so I I was like well I'm an empty and big so that's why I felt like I needed to kind of raise my hand up and and try and make some balance there and make it less I mean it doesn't matter like Bitcoin ultimately the protocol is apolitical and it's always going to be apolitical but you can you can create a culture within Bitcoin and at that point Bitcoin could be there would many Bitcoin less Bitcoin as it wasn't as well spread so you can create a culture which then represents it as being this leaning in this direction or leaning in that direction so now I'm seeing within Bitcoin there's this much more of a kind of healthy balance and you know I think as well like when Bitcoin's sort of first impression was about kind of trading and making money they're all things which kind of appeal to the libertarian and cap you know but the greed aspect for a lefty socialist type is it it's not something which really appeals to them and it kind of turns them off and it's and the people who are attracted to that they're turned off by that kind of group of people but then obviously you go beyond that and you've got like this you know monetary commons which is owned and regulated by the community as a whole because obviously we're on the left we've been looking at how to decentralize socialize decision making for hundreds of years so it's very exciting for people on the left as well I thought this article was very poorly written so I I'm very much an advocate of yes it makes better forms of private capital allocation but it is a monetary commons so there is you know balance there for left and right but I thought this article was a bit kind of roast hinted like when he was talking about Bitcoin mining creating all these jobs in middle america and it's like well no a Bitcoin mine is designed to be manned by like one or two very tired techies who just have to make sure that the machine still burst into flames yes there are some jobs where you initially set these things up but not that many jobs and then there was the whole you know you can use it for sending value for subsidising like you know green renewable energy capture which I think is kind of a bit of a murky area of research you know like it for a minute to be profitable it has to be on a lot of the time so it's not like you can just put it on flick it on you know when your windmills aren't serving the grid for example so the article itself I didn't really know how to cover this up but I do like the fact that he's saying yes it's for a bit going for everybody and I do think in the US as well I think this district things kind of come at a good time in that yes people think it can be used by drug dealers yes people could think it can be used by a political leaning somebody you know they don't agree with but I think ultimately like more and more people are at normies as we said before like they're starting to understand that it doesn't it doesn't care like it's it's ambivalent like you have one's to use it can use it and I noticed that a lot in the in the way people talk about Bitcoin politicians talk about Bitcoin now in the US but it's very much it's it's they've accepted that it's here it's gonna stay here with this and now they just kind of need to adapt the way they do things to work with it all around it or whatever um so yeah it's uh uh I agree with the article but I don't know about the article well acceptance is a major step moving on to the exit question forced prediction against the magical predictor ball predictor of predictors Joshua Shagalla will the price of Bitcoin be higher or lower this time next week okay I think it'll be higher next week one got higher probably maybe more if probably maybe on the fence higher Ben Ark um what was it is it happened three one last time because I was the only person who said it would be lower this week from last week higher or lower no but what like was it was it higher or lower last week I think it was lower last week was it shit so I lost and you were one all right so this you're gonna go lower again lower again here we go most important part is what the ball says you know here we go shaking it may cause bubbles will the price of Bitcoin be higher this time next week my sources say no he's even got sources this time moving on to issue four Binance invests two hundred million dollars in Forbes allegedly to boost consumer knowledge on Bitcoin CZ the president of Binance says that media is an essential element to build widespread consumer understanding and education Wang galt what do you think about Binance raised by an ICO chased out of this country and that country had a plan to evade the laws and now they're investing in Forbes I'm sure that Forbes is going to give us great and critical coverage of Binance in the future what do you think yeah it definitely makes me a little uncomfortable I mean I don't think we have a good track record of or a good history of of um tech millionaires or billionaires buying up ancient media organizations and doing well with it right like look at what Jeff bases has done with the Huffton Post I believe it's just you know all of these things are basically in some sense they become kind of yellow journalism um can CZ do any better where is his money come from where does this guy come from is this is the he like Chinese oligarchies he part of the party right um what does that mean for Forbes right is for going to become a crypto sort of slate or tablet type of thing right um I don't know I definitely makes me uncomfortable but it also shows how how desperate for money some of these news outlets are right like um yeah I don't know it's it's real curious maybe they'll do some good stuff with it maybe they'll they'll they'll they'll innovate I mean Forbes is somewhat of a modern um media platform they have this sort of blogging kind of angle where you can you can submit your articles and stuff maybe they'll innovate I'm curious but I'm skeptical and uh yeah I wouldn't expect the most aggressive journalism from Forbes you know as far as Binance goes that's for sure it reminds me of a lot of when Binance bought coin market cap and everyone said oh it's it's obvious they're only going to report on coins they're on Binance and the same thing now for Forbes maybe they're just going to report on coins that are on Binance uh Ben Archer thoughts on Binance investing into Forbes actually tweeted this out and I I just I just wanted to tag Binance and Forbes and just say are we finally going to get uh micro transactions for articles just pay as you go I want to read an article on Forbes I want to read an article on the financial times and I'll pay ten cents I'll pay twenty cents and the you know the publication press that we do the online press they've they've been hammered by the internet and journalism and hammered by the internet and this is a way which they could pull in revenue and yours was one of the first things biolics boss worth yours dot uh yours dot com yours dot org um it was one of the first examples of how you could use Bitcoin over the lightning network you could just like read a little section of an article paying in voice and then read the rest of the article and it appears instantly on the web page feels amazing to use it's still one of the best our most to show people what lightning can do what Bitcoin over lightning network can do um and I mean I mean I mean sense that it's not even been trialed by a big press publication so I tweeted out like please you know can this be where it happens like the Binance will help them build this thing into Forbes it's hope you um I know they don't have lightning in Binance obviously and uh Francis Pooley actually wrote a reply to my tweet saying no they're just gonna use it to publish it coins that's probably more likely yes I agree but um I'm still gonna hang on to that little hope that we'll have Bitcoin lightning transactions even if it's just for a trial period just as I know around uh maybe the white paper day or something just like a trial pick just as a demo of the technology like this is how you could pay for an article in the in the future but I would love to see Forbes or a big news publication do that um uh so yeah I probably they'll use this new power they have within Forbes to like pump the shit coins but you know I do like I hopefully see Z deep down is still a bit coiner and he wants um people to experience Bitcoin and if he does then he would implement lightning network payments into um pay as you go articles on on Forbes would be great 0.0 and it's interesting how far this discussion how far this discussion goes back then because of Vitalik Booterin in his Bitcoin magazine articles used to put up about half the article then put up like a Bitcoin wallet and a certain goal like raise this amount of money and I'll put up the second half it was probably all manually done but things haven't really progressed that much since then the idea no one wants to put any barrier in the article even though a lot of these websites have started popping up scarier and scarier messages than I'm using an ad blocker which again I just bring up my blocker blocker that blocks everything and it's like oh you don't want that well you don't even get to run any scripts now like it's over for you um but doesn't don't you see this just escalating and still no one wants to do what you're saying no one wants to pay ten cents an article or a penny an article or even anything because they've been trained on free they just want expected free they don't know and free they just don't care yeah that's true but but people do pay for subscriptions and then there is like a group of users like me I don't want to pay for it's for subscription I already give away my personal data on some website like put my credit card details in I just want to pay to read an article on the financial times I'll overpay like there's some articles which I've got to and I would pay like 50 p to read the article because it's a good article um I would I would pay way more than the article is worth and probably more than they would make from a subscription model anyway or data yeah exactly they just keep going back they love that subscription model I would love to just pay serious for Howard Stern I'd love to pay the cable company maybe just for ESPN something like that but it's not available because they want to sell you the the whole package as a subscription more entertainment more magazine than you could ever read yeah this is what the music industry stayed away from singles and really pushing albums the whole time back then because they could sell off a 25 bucks even though everyone just went for that one song very much the same Josh Leggalla your thoughts on Forbes allowing Binance to heavily invest in their company yeah look Forbes all of these legacy media they're really struggling they're really struggling but the interesting thing was as they virtue signal with their big stick about about when Facebook used Cambridge Cambridge Analytica used Facebook data to like do whatever they were saying that they did in the back end it's they are doing the exact same thing all of these big media outlets from CNN to Fox to Forbes Reuters they all have gone from a hey we sell magazines we sell newspapers to we buy data we sell data and that's it that's how they're making money right now and it's it's so disingenuous for them to go after Cambridge Analytica I think it's good they should but without looking at themselves without pointing at themselves without going hey we all do this and we and by the way they all use like a single aggregator amongst left right every newspaper they use the same the same aggregators so it's a it's a dye model and yeah the only way we kill the the data is the new oil model is with micro payments with nano payments to you know make it even smaller than you've been nano man yeah it's it's really that's the model that's the model and you know Satoshi pay is a really old startup here out of Berlin was doing the same thing really beautiful where you pay per paragraph and the paragraph turns from grade to you know and you just fund a little lightning wallet and blah blah blah blah blah and so if you get sick of the article halfway through you you pay even less because you didn't read the whole thing and yeah so I think this this really interesting moves now by CZ and what's fascinating is that crypto culture is starting to buy into these legacy media outlets and it's a it's a weird move but what it shows me because CZ is a very data driven character what it really shows me is that that there is still massive readership of these articles because you don't only read it on Forbes it Forbes releases it and then it trickles out to all these other places and it's sort of knock on domino effect so for CZ it makes a lot of sense and what's phenomenal is that these companies our Binance can just put 300 million it really wouldn't even touch the sides if you're like hmm why buy ads when I can buy the company you know so so yeah I think I think it's a really really interesting move interesting move let's see it's also a great mailing list at Forbes if you're thinking of future customers for the Binance exchange people into money people into magazines maybe some older type money hasn't gotten into the Bitcoin yet now they've got a Forbes you know partnered exchange or whatever they're going to call it you know Forbes license for approved right you know you can get in there so it's interesting stuff you know you always hear the one side of the deal which is the money side of the deal but money buys something and I want to know what they bought I keep using this my builders toothbrush here but but I want to know what the other side of the deal was they paid 200 mil for what what did they pay for did they pay for constant for editorial rights I don't know because there's a lot of you know journalism I worked for a long time in Mainstream Television and there is a lot of when you talk to these old school journalists I'm talking 50 60 years old they would talk about journalistic integrity yeah that's a thing it used to be a thing and and it was all about like not having a viewpoint just reporting on a story and trying as much and the science of taking your own bias out of a story is a really hard thing because humans have an opinion and they really want to you know and the maybe it was never there maybe it was always a facade maybe everyone always had it but nowadays it's really in your face either left or right or whatever but seeing seeing how this is evolved I want to know the contract that they've bought by an ad it's just by an ad can they just write whatever they want from now on they don't even have to put sponsored content on top it's a great deal let's move on to the exit question crypto currency just bought oh we're gonna go to Dan are we'll go to Dan first then we'll I'll be quick I'll be quick yeah no I I'm we've just about the you know the viewpoints that I think that really ruin the news and I don't know if it was I don't know exactly what point it was but I could slowly see you know news turning from like non-biased factual things where they say this happened to going in just turning into opinions and I'm not just talking about opinion articles but literally going this happened because of so and so blah blah blah blah blah rather than just saying what the thing is right and that just really ruin the news and and I don't know I think I think that I really don't like the idea that a company it's almost like the news should be something that shouldn't have I don't know it shouldn't have investment from someone that can change the news is opinion because then it's not news it's opinion right it's some it's like a talk show it becomes like news becomes turns into some sort of talk show but to having said that I'm willing to drop all of my morals because by an answer for in at Forbes and and they're going to be positive about bitcoins now I don't really care but ultimately you know it would be good if they could you know they could rather than just become a shilling factory and have that side of it to be you know impartial maybe even have a because of the fact that bitcoins apolitical make fords a bit more apolitical maybe because by then sport into them was it a name shackle not shackle can't we're God razzle car razzle carons were right for Forbes right now right so maybe you should be right for Forbes from jail if she goes to jail I'm just saying I'm just saying it might happen but no I yeah I think it's I think it's a I think it's a bad thing that that companies with an agenda can buy into newspapers but I'm quite happy because it's finance and they'll she'll be going in some way moving on to the exit question we've already bought crypto.com arena we've got FTX arena in Miami and now crypto Forbes what will bitcoins or Bitcoin companies buy next and I'm looking for big things so think very big think about the biggest thing they could buy and tell me what that would be Benark what will they buy next? I've absolutely no idea but what I will do as I want to share a screen oh can you enable screen sharing for a second I won't be long to promise yeah alright so I want to share this screen here just the case for anyone who hasn't seen yours before working because it is it's great it's by Alex Bosworth from the first examples of lightning I haven't got my lightning while it with it so I'm literally gonna click on the article here I can read a little bit of the article I want to we continue reading so I click on this thing I'm in as an invoice can somebody please pay that lightning invoice so I can read the rest of the article because I haven't got my phone with me so when we're part your phone quick come on I'm whipping out my phone or one of our one of our lovely viewers could maybe pay for this article and then I could read the rest of this article and this is kind of the work for there we are someone paid fantastic thank you whoever that was and then I can make the article now there we are nice thank you Thomas so it's great it's a great experience user experience like most adults understand that journalist integrity is important but it requires resources and it costs money to do and that this is why newspapers have to have like profit in order to be able to reinvest that into their journalist so they can actually pay them to go out there and research a topic properly which is which is which is why you know and I think you know people understanding that means they are willing to pay for some of this stuff like I am willing to pay for an article if I think it's written well and I think someone speaks in the time to to you know to write it properly and willing to pay for an understand it's an important thing to have in society and I think a lot of the you know some of the the the sort of people are misinterpretating data on the internet is then carrying that bias when they were some journalist integrity in the media resources which they pulled information from and they carry that across into the internet which is free for all anyone could say whatever they want and it appears legitimate so you know what you have you have these weird things happen where the internet turns from clickbait to like zapbait how much lightning can we zap out of people by like having the most tantalizing little teasers at the front I'll share one more thing actually before I go before I start to discuss something there is a great lightning plugin and not lightning plugin sorry WordPress plugin I paid two bounties to try and get this thing made and it wasn't made properly but Bummy who makes Bumi who makes Albi he's making a really good WordPress plugin which is kind of like pay to read more so you have you know in a WordPress article you have that little thing which is like you know do you want to read more click to read more and then this is a pay to read more so you click on it and it does the same thing yours did but it just means that anyone with a WordPress blog can pop install this extension plugin and then make and have that functionality it's also compatible with Alan Bits as well which is great but that's a great project Bummies made and he'll be releasing this property I think in like the next week or so so keeping out for that but yeah please like the financial I can't see one of the financial times as I've done it like one of these big mues publications please just implement lightning payments small lightning payments so I can ever pay for articles that's the chicken and the egg until everyone has lightning they won't do it and they won't do it until everyone has lightning so you just have to wait but now Ben has stalled enough Dan tell me something big that they're going to buy next what's it going to be biggest thing it would be it would be interesting to see Binance like buy a bank right I mean they were a lot now it would almost it would be a relatively sensible move like a reverse merger type thing to something this a bank that's already regulated in another in another country so it would be kind of a logical move but yeah I don't know what I don't know obviously how much buying power they have but you know the Binance coin is pretty 64 market capital 65 billion I'm sure they're sat on a a good number of resources to be able to kind of put some money up or have become a majority shareholder or something like that yeah I think that would be like that would be the like the big like a big move right or buy country there you go find as buys a country one god to dan just take your answer go ahead that's a great answer that's a great answer I have no idea I like to see somebody buy like the moon you know like how much is the moon that that's my conspiracy theory I think that I think that's a toast is gonna return probably in 2069 and he's gonna cash out his 1 million bitcoin and he's just gonna just flat out by the moon from who that from who whoever owns it probably Elon Musk probably moon down you know moon yeah moon down Elon Musk's doge moon down yeah yeah by the way I like the moon I had planted on my list yeah yeah yeah that's going and I love that project that WordPress project I'm right now I'm running my blog on ghost ororg which is kind of like a more modern sort of blogging platform I love to see an integration with that as well but that's super cool I would be willing to to try that out Joshua Shagalla they've got their own government their own planet maybe the moon what else can these crypto people buy yeah I mean I would definitely like to see a country and I know that Roger was trying to do it already to sort of set up a new like startup governments which would be really cool like a startup country is just a test different governance models instead of having you know having more of an eclectic mixer of government styles rather than you've got you know tyranny left or right I don't know you've got you've just got the same thing you've got the West Minister system or the American system well at least it's slow moving tyranny and they could also buy oh what was it I like the planet I like the big things oh yeah I think they should buy a TV station but they kind of already have if anyone's watched CNBC recently it's wall-to-wall a crypto just like you'll find here on the world crypto network and they talk about Bitcoin they talk about does coin they talk about everything on CNBC so if we already have a TV station I think we should get our own movie studio and that every movie that the studio makes is somehow related to Bitcoin and maybe even not about theft and crime and the Silk Road maybe it's just like somebody got Bitcoin donations and they bought a guitar like that's the movie and somebody they were in trouble you know they were on the run they're getting a divorce or something they got some Bitcoin donations and it saved them or somebody saved an old wallet and they were able to pay off their student loan debt just like some feel good stories about Bitcoin and people are like the studio they only produce feel good stories about Bitcoin how could that be it's like oh yeah we bought them the Bitcoiners just bought a studio. So great that's a great example and like I think like all of us are waiting for a decent like Netflix series on Bitcoin and it'd be hard to do because you do it linearly but I would quite like it if each episode was like an hour long story so you'd have like the Mount Gopps episode and then you would have like the the Binance episode and then you'd have kind of the characters like intermingling between them and then you would have like the you know the WikiLeaks episode like they you just have these different moments in time which are quite significant and they will be all be different episodes and you could make series and series at this thing and it doesn't have to be linear and you can have people kind of pop up and it also seems like you're describing the Bitcoin cinematic universe we can get the same actors like Mark Carpellis would be in multiple ones of these films we sign that guy to a big you know studio deal you're gonna play Carpellis in all these different films and maybe if you're lucky they'll be a spinoff just about you and your cat Matt Damon very neat one he can be in charge of the studio we'll put him in charge all right so I think that's a good answer for options of what they could buy next is a lot of good stuff we also have a bonus issue because there's too much news crypto exchanges make their debut at the Super Bowl FTX crypto.com others will be running crypto and Bitcoin based commercials at the Super Bowl what's your guys idea for a good Bitcoin commercial what would you like to see at the Super Bowl Josh Zagala what would you like to see in your Bitcoin crypto Super Bowl commercial I'd like to see Lightning Network demos from Benach hello I'd love it if they showed like the classic Bitcoin thing where it's like there's a million dollars on here and we're gonna send it in Litecoin for 10 cents or whatever you know that would be a great and that would be 30 seconds you could do that pretty tight yeah yeah yeah or some sort of like epic airdrop to everybody that you can scan a QR code instantly get some lightning you know it's amazing is we have the technology to do that right here Ben could make a QR code we could all put some lightning in it everyone could claim it and we could do that on our own we wouldn't need like a massive technology company to partner with our commercial company we could also make the video it's amazing the the tools we have access to but not the airtime one galt what is in your crypto Super Super Bowl commercial is it Bitcoin does it dump on shit coins what's gonna happen you're muted though I just want something that's not cringey embarrassing I'll take anything I just come on you know it's gonna be cringey and embarrassing and what's great about this is I didn't read the article I don't know what the commercials are gonna be I want to be surprised when I watch a Super Bowl tomorrow but yes it's it's all gonna be cringey and embarrassing for sure I prefer I would prefer no NFT stuff like no ridiculous NFT stuff but I that's probably too much to ask um yeah I don't know some good-hearted like Bitcoin stuff would be nice but I'm probably cynical at this point oh you gotta make an NFT Dan Eve what's in in your crypto commercial your Bitcoin commercial I know some sort of like awfully like disgusting like cheesy what's it called in the UK it was cute or like you know the shopping channel right thing like with and the cheesiest was like the silly bang advert and we like bang and the fear is gone and like this awful like splares to like you know lightning codes everywhere and yeah awesome I think that that would be pretty cool just awfully cheesy awfully ridiculous and maybe really arrogant as well because Bitcoin's you know still pretty hardcore high compared to you know a few years ago obviously he's dropped from more time high but you know it will be back I'll be pretty neat if they could if they could use the background and like layer in a bunch of QR codes and it changes every second so everybody's pausing it scanning a different code trying to get all the money out of the commercial and then you could say something like we gave away a million dollars in this commercial you know and there'd be hopefully a bunch of people that get it not just the one person claiming it first but you know thousands of individuals getting okay hear me out what if it was a QR code that was constantly shifting like like you have a million QR codes and then you use some algorithm to slowly transform them and so we're just snapping pictures in every frame has a different public key dude dude it'll be cool huh it'll be cool I like that anime QR codes anime QR codes it's a protocol existed useful for they use it in spite of for other things run uses I'm not sure whether they've implemented it for when you do a partially signed Bitcoin transaction and the day is left and then you have like an anime QR code it's pretty funky actually the way it changes and it can change pretty fast and your phone can just read it and it likes streams streams in blocks it's pretty cool so you can tell you to call it smokes that sounds awesome dude yeah better than best yeah Ben you heard all the ideas not me we're secretly fundraising for next year's commercial yeah what are you gonna do Ben what are you gonna do next here when we get you your own commercial for Ellen Bidts I see that the only thing they're only probably the QR codes is the they they're hard to scan from afar like my phone doesn't scan a QR code from far I have got a crappy phone but if the QR code is quite far away so you'd have to like and I'll make the QR code really big I suppose but it's a good really good idea to have loads of them like all over the place and then people have to like go in there and pause it and then scan each one and try and get all the QR codes especially if you could do it on home I don't know they're watching on TV on the right KTV so yeah they could pause it and get the QR codes and they could be like multiple like they could have like multiple hits in the with drawers so you could you know the Alan you are with drawers I guess like by then I mean like a wallet of Satoshi or something you know there's a Lerica Stodio wallet I saw you use it before they've got a hell of a lot of Bitcoin on there and if they can securely in some way like get yield from that Bitcoin so they have like big pockets for advertising and they get like a bankings little something to explain to everybody that you know download wallet Satoshi scan this QR code get some sats now go buy an article on the financial times that'd be pretty cool okay I can picture it you're like we've got a 30-second countdown on the screen and we've got all these QR codes flashing by and they're like they told us we could have a million dollars for this commercial and that we could hire Britney Spirors or we could just give a million dollars away I guess which one we decided on and then in the last second you have Britney show up and she's like I'm here guys and they're like commercials over the end so there we go we'll see what they come up with tomorrow if it's as creative or or hopefully even better but let's go to the predictions Dan Eve forced prediction what's going to happen in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency I think we're going to hear about another hack are I can there's going to be another hack it's it seems like it's hacking season right and uh yeah I think I think there's there's there's there's going to be something crazy there'll be another hack maybe I don't know maybe what maybe maybe even even the real crazy thing would be as we've already discussed is that the the three point five billion dollars of six billion dollars of Bitcoin that the feds have seized or the DOJ that gets hacked that'll be really interesting so uh yeah I think I think there's going to be some sort of hacking event it may be even a DeFi one there's one every week of those uh February that romantic season when young men's minds turn to hacking Ben arc prediction I'm really going to predictions hopefully people people talk about how Bitcoin needs to be more private on the base layer that's kind of contentious issue um but um I quite that's definitely coming up in the Super Bowl I really think Bitcoin should be more private don't you Jim yeah I like the way people are discussing the way they've laundered it reminds me of the you know when they showed the Silk Road and they would teach people how to buy the drugs on Silk Road it's like all these articles about how to laundre money using Bitcoin or not how not to do it because this couple didn't they got caught so a lot more people will be coming forward by learning how to launch a you hacked Bitcoin gains that would also be a great Super Bowl commercial how to laundre a billion dollars and Bitcoin one goal what's going to happen in the Super Bowl or go what's your prediction for the future we've already talked about commercials uh what's my prediction for the future of Super Bowl commercials or anything Bitcoin could be anything yeah yeah I'm going I think I think I'm going on a trip next week I predict I won't be here and they're you something like that I predict that that we're the the bull market is not over and that will might be in for a little consolidation in the next few weeks but then we're probably going for another new ridiculous bull market season yeah that's the best kind of prediction everyone likes that one Josh Shagala prediction prediction is that the narrative is forming apart never unrealizes it's a fucking flu no the emperor has no clothes Dan Eve a story of the week what happened this week that interested you Dan Eve yeah the story a story that interested me um uh I go going outside freedom freedom from being because because obviously you know we're we finally recovered from covid last last week as the whole family but we kept on you know we're testing positive more than like 10 days after um but we had our taste of freedom we were able to like go and walk and walk and see places and feel the fresh air and the wind in our faces and the forest and the park and it was all cool um oh okay that's a story of the week so I was in a park just really quickly and uh and ended up being like like three hours in the park because there was like an almost massive fight where three ladies like it was awful they three ladies like started on a pregnant lady and started pushing her around and then uh and then it was yeah it was crazy and then the boy friend it was like came came on a scooter like one of these scooters like but um but it was literally like one with with like it was like basically a kid's one it was like you know like on and back to the future when uh Martin McFly's got the the girl scooter it was like that and he was literally circling the park going you old fox going on you're talking about my Mrs something like that and like I couldn't help but laugh while I saw going to the the guy and his wife who who was pregnant and and he was trying to it was very holy guy and he was like uh he was like it was it was very interesting surreal experience but um yeah there was big big trouble in Little Southampton with with some guy and a crazy scurrying all sorts of craziness so yeah I think I was I was quite good at diffusing the situation um which which was which was good but it was like after after being stuck in the house for ten days I was I was kind of like oh well it wasn't so bad in the house for ten days I didn't have to deal with some crazy guy on a fluorescent scooter which was lighting up circling around the park saying oh you mush you said there were three old ladies fighting I thought for sure the money python oh oh oh oh oh you you oh no no they were young they were like yeah yeah and the guy and the guy the guy the guy's wife like there was the what the wife and the guy he got his phone out to to to film these ladies going crazy at him and then all three of them and the kid of one of the ladies going you're a fucking pido you're a pido oh my god it was savage honestly it was like I want to go back home and I'm going to stay there forever these people are crazy so that's my crazy story of the week don't go inside no go outside just diffuse crazy situations as best as possible because there's a lot of crazy people out there a lot of crazy people should have wrapped at him you should have busted out a fat could do a raptor rhyme oh wow I think that was I think that they were way past that situation they were crazy they were like and they did they all worked after you did your deescalation because I love a bit of deescalation did they all walk away like you see a properly deescalated situation you probably say like that if deescalated and then like and then the guy then his wife happened to be like really holy you know one of those situations where the guys like so tell me I'm going to ask you five questions about yourself and I was like this is really weird but you know I'm going to go along with it and just chat and they're all about Jesus yeah yeah and it was like you know he was asking me the five questions he was like have you ever lied to anyone and it was like the way he did it was like a proper sales pitch anyway so while we're chatting there and I'm like cool I've diffused the situation I'm going to go home it's pitch black I don't even know where my son is what the hell is going on he was just like running around the park and then out of nowhere comes this this this dude on his little all like you know he's fucking hoverboard going oh you want me to say to my girlfriend like and that was like oh my god it started again like and then it literally all kicked off again so I diffuse once you've diffused the situation go home just in case a nut case come back comes back maybe the best story of the week we've ever had Josh Shagall it's going to be hard to top dance story in the park what do we got Josh yeah nothing much apart from where just working working the standard and and the Voltura as well dealing with dealing with regulators as freaking nightmare can't stand them it's always hard work and yeah but moving things forward and it's an adventuring crypto keeps beginning keeps keeps going sorry I should say are there tools for you know for the regulation stuff so obviously you have to apply in different countries for different like to different regulators I guess I mean generally the regulators glow but are very similar they all just want they're just worried about money laundering basically and so it's constantly dealing with that and dealing with like proving that no one's doing that and showing your mechanisms that you you do but the EU you're not allowed to show any private info so it's like a mix between showing what you know how you're protecting that but they don't actually care if you're you know trying to protect your users funds that they don't care about like they you know and they wouldn't know they just all they care about is are you reporting are you like just and they don't know what they're talking about either this is the really frustrating thing we have one regular the head the regular is probably more than I should be giving out but the head of the right answer in private conversation just between you new jobs just build the beans Joshua a lot of the early regulators that are we're trying to do big crypto regulation they got very wealthy and then went oh screw this job I'm wealthy now and now all these regulators globally are sort of just noobs that haven't don't know anything and they they've got this big round circle and they've got all these squares these cubes and they're like no just super mad trailblazing aren't you you'll go through all the pain sort of people don't have to afterwards yeah really I mean it's going to be like yeah we've since launching in 2015 we've been trying to think it's like other like resources for you know for companies to be sure I can act as custodians are there resources like within Bitcoin world which people can access to make that easier that process easier like yeah I mean you know in one way the one way what's happening is that the the regulators are forcing you again just like typical regulatory capture to use so only certain companies that have a license for the custodianships like Bitcoin they sort of went you know they were the early ones but and and the one the one good side of it is that insurance companies are willing to underwrite these companies so if there is a loss then people are people are covered so that that is a positive side to to that sort of specialization of custodianship but you know at the end of the day that the main thing is to to get away from that and the the the problem is that you know where we're being you know we'll probably be forced to use a custodian even though we've been running since 2015 without a hack and and this is really unfortunate that they don't you know recognize that um and it's just is what it is but you know we've still got we're still in talks you know nothing nothing said so and we're educating them they're educating us on the old school system and it's it's a give and take so and then ultimately I suppose like a lot of the standard Iosteuf comes out like experienced doesn't it yeah yeah absolutely I mean the good thing with the standard is is really we're focusing on decentralization maximumism and we see we saw that with with Eric Voorhees with shapeshift you know a shapeshift was always about this like I don't know it's permissionless uh in and out and then they got so massive that the regulators went yeah you have to take Kwasina and it was probably more the investors and the VCs that got involved okay and then he got forced to take Kwasina and now he's building smart contracts to then uh re-decentralize out you know it's debatable if it's whatever chain that's on you know people can debate like all day long about that but that that's uh that's his mechanism of removing that regulatory burden because that's all it is because once this comes in all the people that are kind of in jurisdictions that don't care as much um just get all the business and they are uh the crypto businesses are doing way more than banks anyway to curb money laundering as soon as there's a massive hack the community globally is like watching out for coins that are moving from a hack or or if there was a huge crime and people have been following those coins and they're trying to like wash them through systems the the community is the ones that's figuring that out because we don't want to underwrite the assholes that are hacking people or whatever or or causing you know crime that that is hurting people so it's it's really interesting because old school banking I think that they've been fined like four hundred billion dollars and that's the fines um just so think about how much they actually launder if that's the fine oh yeah they're they're knowing you can press it aren't they you know they're it's not it's not like an in-n-n-do Charlie Shrem style in you end up on a phone call it's oh you're a drug dealer okay let me lodge your money for you well yeah and and a lot of the time they they like it because this money and I have heard some really interesting reports about the 2008 financial crisis where the banks ran out of liquidity not because of anything else but the the drug cartels stopped uh stopped laundering using the banks the loan to the money so the banks had all liquidity locked up everywhere else the only liquidity that they had was all this black market stuff which was sloshing about and and some American politician wanted to cut it off so they they threatened to then cut it off which they did and then they were like oh blame the really poor people they couldn't afford their mortgages sure that had a part to play that was part of the puzzle but that's out of the story never had talked about which is interesting but yeah I mean thanks are so like complicit with all this crap my my favorite money laundering stories when they redesigned the night drop slot so that it would fit the briefcases that they use so the briefcases of money would fit into the slot that was great but all I know is that uh fal Toro was hanging out in the park minding its own business and the standard came up on a hoverboard and and something went wrong uh one got a story of the week go ahead one yeah um so New Orleans is opening back up slowly and Marty grise happening again after two years of not happening so that's that's kind of exciting I may or may not be New Orleans right now and uh yeah there's there's starting to you know be more preparing to to to party for like a month so that's good that's fun yeah so would you consider beads to be an alternative currency do you find yourself heavily investing in beads perhaps uh taking off that shirt uh to get some beads something like that yeah I'm stacking beads yeah I'm stripping for beads not very successfully but that's yeah it could go up in value you know Elon Musk likes Dogecoin could always be people collect them yeah yeah no people are like oh yeah people are proud of their collections of weird Marty grand eclaces yeah there's like a whole they're like collectibles I'm sure they'll be throwing an iftis at people next and iftis of beads that sounds very cool want to have to tell us more about uh Marty grise if you go I will they are they are relaxing mask mandates all over the US uh california Nevada dropping their mandates I think california in three days Nevada dropped it uh just the other day coincidentally we have the super pole this weekend so maybe Nevada wants to just make some more money might not be quite so much about uh safety and health for the science obviously not it goes yeah but I think we're running out of time uh so thanks to everybody for watching the show to be sure to give us a thumbs up down below subscribe if you haven't already put a comment out there is a very dramatic show lots of politics so maybe you guys can have a fight in the comment section too we got it all going on here so thanks so much everybody for joining us thanks to wand for being our guest uh until next time bye